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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-08-11

---Logopened Mon Aug 11 00:00:44 2008
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02:08<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, but then I'd've needed straps to hold the boot hatch down.
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03:29<Ammler>he, how to remove a ban?
03:30<doc|work>a ban? from where?
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03:55<planetmaker>moin Celestar :)
03:56<Celestar>ey planetmaker I had a quessie for you
03:56<planetmaker>or rather "Grüß Gott"?
03:56<Celestar>or that (=
03:57<Celestar>what's the carbon content of Mars? Any different from earth?
03:57<planetmaker>uh... no idea. So the assumption that it's approx. the same should be fine.
03:58<Celestar>that's enough for me
03:58<planetmaker>There's no reason Earth should be enriched in it.
03:58<Celestar>Just wondering whether one could produce polymers on Mars with the resources available
03:58<Celestar>peter1138: how is it going?
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04:03<planetmaker>Celestar: I guess you could produce polymers. But(!) C might be harder to obtain as it is not bound by any biosphere.
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04:03<Celestar>planetmaker: well apart from the CO2 in the atmosphere
04:04<Celestar>but that's not much C
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04:04<planetmaker>well... all oil has been biosphere, too. :)
04:04*planetmaker wonders where most C is bound in...
04:04<Celestar>planetmaker: yeah I wonder that as well
04:05<Celestar>dunno the composition of the soil my heart :P
04:05<Celestar>Rubidium: you around?
04:05<@Rubidium>I think so
04:06<Celestar>Rubidium: the fullload game you showed me: WFM :/
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04:09<planetmaker>Celestar: limestone, dolomite, CO2, methane is quoted as most abundand representation on wiki
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04:11<Celestar>planetmaker: well, obtaining it from limestone and dolomite is easily possible. So you'd get Fe, C for normal structures, Mg for real lightweight system ..
04:12<planetmaker>yeah. most of regolith is (Mg,Fe)2SiO4, which is overly abundant... so, no principal ressource problems, I guess :)
04:13<planetmaker>Planning a new house of yours? ;)
04:13<Celestar>kind of
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04:14<@Rubidium>Celestar: okay, I looked at the savegame again and now it seems to not occur anymore... !but! ... every time I load the savegame the wagons that are loaded and the amount they are loaded with differs slightly
04:14*Celestar checks
04:16<@Rubidium>30, 30, 24, 20, 25, 25, 25, 25 vs 30, 30, 22, 20, 25, 25, 25, 25 vs 30, 30, 30, 20, 20, 27, 25, 25, 25
04:16<@Rubidium>see the train with the label "first" on the track "above" it
04:17<Celestar>Rubidium: that is _very_ interesting
04:17*Celestar wonders how that is caused
04:19<@Rubidium>any of: the routing tables not being cleared properly, the sorting of the routing tables depends on malloced memory, the sorting is unstable and the pivot is chosen randomly, ...
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04:21<Celestar>Rubidium: checking (=
04:23<@peter1138>Companies House is strange...
04:24<@peter1138>"The WebCHeck service is available from Monday to Saturday 7.00am to 12 Midnight UK Time"
04:24<@peter1138>Because servers can't run 24/7?
04:24<Celestar>peter1138: anything I need to pull/merge?
04:24<Noldo>so they can reboot nighttime and you can't whine
04:24<@peter1138>Er, I think there was but it's at home.
04:25<@peter1138>Nothing major though
04:26<Celestar>GetVehicleOrder(v, v->cur_order_index)->GetNextUnloadingOrder()->GetDestination();
04:26<Celestar>er .. sorry :P
04:26<Celestar>meant to paste that in gdb (=
04:26<Celestar>doesn't work anyway :S
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04:27*Celestar recompiles with debug 3
04:27<@Rubidium>:O slowness
04:27<Celestar>er what?
04:27<@Rubidium>debuglevel 3
04:30<Gekz_>does it even run full speed on a good computer with debug 3?
04:30<Celestar>Gekz_: no problems
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04:31<@peter1138>enable-debug 3 or debug_level 3?
04:31<@peter1138>Totally different ;)
04:31<Celestar>peter1138: --enable-debug=3
04:31<Celestar>it cannot run full speed with debug_level 7 for me
04:32<Celestar>because the terminal is too slow to print all the chars (=
04:32<Gekz_>Celestar: openttd > somefile.txt
04:32<Celestar>Gekz_: >&
04:33<Celestar>because debug prints to stderr (=
04:33<Gekz_>I forgot that
04:33<Celestar>sometimes, I do too (=
04:36<Gekz_>stop reversing the happy faces
04:36<Gekz_>it breaks my brain
04:38<Gekz_>how unlike friends.
04:44<Celestar>Rubidium: mah, the station has 148 cargopackets :P
04:46<Celestar>AW SHIT
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04:47<Celestar>I coded some total crap :P
04:49<Gekz>Can I code crap too?
04:52<Celestar>Rubidium: can you pull again and re-try?
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05:04<@Rubidium>Celestar: seems to work now
05:04<Gekz>git push, git pull, git off my lawn
05:05<Celestar>Rubidium: awesome ;)
05:05<Celestar>this is the last day I'm here for almost a week, we'd need to playtest today in the network (=
05:05<@Rubidium>yup, I'd prefer git too
05:05<@Rubidium>because it doesn't consume memory like hg does
05:06<Gekz>lulz hg
05:06<Gekz>mercurial isnt as bad as monotone
05:06<@Rubidium>hg sync with svn leaks 1-4 MB per revision
05:07<@Rubidium>git leaks nothing (or at least so near nothing that it isn't noticable in 14000 commits)
05:07<@Rubidium>got to reboot hg every night so it doesn't get OOMed by itself
05:08<@Rubidium>git is "still" using only 840 kiB since August 2nd
05:08<Celestar>yeh yeh
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05:21<@peter1138>But hg is easier to use ;)
05:23<@peter1138>Right, I reckon I should be okay to load labels in reservation, and the rest in activation.
05:25<@peter1138>Hmm, I need to specify more sprites.
05:25<Celestar>peter1138: ?
05:26<@peter1138>I've been working on NewGRF rail types.
05:26<Celestar>ha ;)
05:26<Celestar>what about NewGRF_ports :P
05:26<@peter1138>That probably needs rewriting ;)
05:27<Celestar>peter1138: "probably"?
05:27<@peter1138>I've not looked at it for ages.
05:28<@peter1138>Hmm, I guess I should allow custom catenary too
05:28<@peter1138>I wonder how many sprites are needed that for...
05:28<@peter1138>Ah ha, I can investigate the wiki :D
05:30<Celestar>peter1138: <= comments?
05:30<@peter1138>Ah ha
05:30<@peter1138>Good enough for me :)
05:31<@peter1138>48 sprites needed in TTDPatch for overhead wires... did we add any?
05:34<@peter1138>I thought we did something special with tunnels or bridges, but it looks like we still use 48 sprites.
05:35<Celestar>nah we use theirs basically
05:35<Celestar>I kind of tried to emulate their behaviour
05:36<@Rubidium>peter1138: the special's for tunnels and bridges are in TTDP too
05:36<@peter1138>Ah, right.
05:36<Celestar>bridges too?
05:37*peter1138 considers specifying more sprites for bridge surfaces.
05:37<@peter1138>Just in case we ever have diagonal bridges...
05:38<Celestar>possibly (=
05:38<@peter1138> < What am I missing?
05:38<@peter1138>Oh... Icons :o
05:39<@Rubidium>I'd keep snowy and desert ground separated
05:39<@Rubidium>so multiclimate maps remain fairly easily possible
05:39<@peter1138>Hmm, okay.
05:40<@Rubidium>though... that'd mean a cargo ID per climate + snow + desert
05:41<@peter1138>We could just make it an overlay system, and only have one set.
05:41<Noldo>what are you working on?
05:41<@peter1138>Although that wouldn't really work for tunnels.
05:43<@peter1138>Noldo: "Railtypes" in the URL might give it away.
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05:45<Celestar>we'd just need to give each cargotype a unique ID
05:45<Celestar>but we're limited to 32
05:47<@peter1138>Cargo types should be modified by GRF...
05:47<Celestar>point taken
05:48<Celestar>peter1138: we should make a (mental) list what missing until we can merge cargodest into trunk
05:48<@Rubidium>a proper desync test
05:49<@Rubidium>a review of the code
05:49<@Rubidium>a flame of boost (it gives me a lot of warnings because they use deprecated stuff)
05:51<@peter1138>Hmm, doesn't for me.
05:52<@Rubidium>/usr/include/c++/4.3/backward/backward_warning.h:33:2: warning: #warning This file includes at least one deprecated or antiquated header which may be removed without further notice at a future date. Please use a non-deprecated interface with equivalent functionality instead. For a listing of replacement headers and interfaces, consult the file backward_warning.h.
05:53<Celestar>Rubidium: we need to decide whether to put boost and a requirement (and adjust the configure scripts), or add the boost stuff to our repo (the licensing allows this)
05:54<@peter1138>Well in theory you can do everything using the existing data in the station and order pools, but that may be less efficient..
05:54<@Rubidium>I'd go for the latter, i.e. add the needed part of boost to our repository
05:55<@Rubidium>so we don't get desyncs because someone has a newer/older version of boost
05:55<Celestar>Rubidium: I concur
05:55<Progman>you fixed the bug routing edges got removed when autoreplace (try to) appears?
05:55<Celestar>Progman: not yet.
05:55<@peter1138>Autoreplace has bigger problems than that.
05:55<@Rubidium>Progman: fixing that requires autoreplace to be fixed before
05:55<Celestar>Progman: it's still on my list, but I'm putting this on hold
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05:55<Celestar>I agree with Rubidium on that one (=
05:56<@peter1138>Hmm, I guess cursors and icons can go in the same lump.
05:56<@peter1138>So, 10...
05:56<Celestar>frosch said something about rewriting autoreplace (=
05:56<@peter1138>Or do we have a separate cursor/icon for each railtype for depots?
05:57<Peer>Is there an OpenTTD repo?
05:57<Progman>svn, hg, whatever you want
05:57<Peer>no, aptitude.
05:58<@Rubidium>Peer: use debian/contrib
05:58<Celestar>Who's the head of NoAI these days?
05:58<Progman>I guess truebrain
05:59<@Rubidium>Peer: and it is in ubuntu/multiverse and in gentoo
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05:59<@peter1138>Hmm, yes, and there's a tunnel icon, and convert rail icon...
06:00<HttpError>but i belive the ubuntu/multiverse is out dated.
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06:01<@Rubidium>then slap them to upgrade
06:01<@Rubidium>or just install the debian package that's on sourceforge
06:02<Celestar>Rubidium: what's your idea of "a proper desync test" ?
06:02<@peter1138>All this nick changing is making me dizzy...
06:02<Celestar>I mean just playing or something?
06:02<@peter1138>Celestar, openttdcoop ;)
06:02<HaloMaster>soz, tryna find my registered nick
06:02<HaloMaster>found it
06:03<@Rubidium>Celestar: as peter1138 said
06:03<Celestar>peter1138: Rubidium: good idea
06:03<@peter1138>Hmm, a depot is just two sprites, isn't it?
06:03<Celestar>yes peter1138
06:03<Celestar>so Brianetta is my man, right?
06:03<@Rubidium>peter1138: depending on the orientation
06:03<@peter1138>Oh, that depends on direction :p
06:03<@Rubidium>it's 6 in total
06:03<Celestar>peter1138: let's say.. MAX two sprites
06:04<@Rubidium>the NE and NW ones have 1
06:04<Celestar>two for the ones faced southish, one for the northish depots
06:04<@peter1138>Right, so 6 sprites in total for depots.
06:04<Celestar>"northish" .. can you say that 10 times fast?
06:04<@peter1138>It comes out like "nor fish" though.
06:04*Rubidium assigns Microsoft Bob to that task
06:05<Forked>MS Bob <3
06:05<Forked>I wonder if it works in vista x64
06:06<@peter1138>Currently the level crossing lights/barriers are assigned by the roadside type. Should we keep that?
06:06<@Rubidium>action 2 it!
06:07<@peter1138>I'm avoiding varaction2 ;)
06:07<@Rubidium>then action 0 it ;)
06:07*Celestar still wonders whether to tackle NewGrfPorts after cargodest
06:07<@Rubidium>one for both road sides
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06:07<@Rubidium>Celestar: if you do multistop after cargodest and before newgrfports it fine by me ;)
06:08<@peter1138>The question I'm asking is should it be defined by road or by rail?
06:08<Celestar>Rubidium: I will
06:08<@peter1138>Hmm, I suppose newgrfports makes multistop for ports unnecessary?
06:08<@peter1138>Hmm, depends how flexible sea ports will be.
06:09<@Rubidium>peter1138: action0levelcrossingbarriers
06:09<@peter1138>But action 0 doesn't do anything with sprites.
06:09<@Rubidium>peter1138: action<whatever's the right number>levelcrossingbarriers
06:10<@peter1138>ActionAnything is missing the point of the question ;)
06:11<@Rubidium>I reckon the crossings belong more to the road
06:11<@peter1138>Hmm, 12 sprites for PBS reservation... Are they only used for reservation?
06:11<Celestar>Rubidium: I've already got the WIP by mart3p that he did about multistop and he apoliziged that he didn't take care about it after the DTRS have been finished (=
06:11<@peter1138>Oh... 12...
06:11<@Rubidium>currently yet
06:11<@peter1138>I guess that's 4 for each rail type?
06:12<@Rubidium>*yes and yes
06:12<@peter1138>So it's just slope overlays...
06:12<@peter1138>So I can just add them to the existing overlays!
06:12<@peter1138>How obvious.
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06:13<@peter1138>Technically you could draw all tracks using those 10 overlay sprites.
06:13<@peter1138>But it would look pretty ugly.
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06:13<@Rubidium>even bridges
06:13<@Rubidium>and probably tunnels too
06:13<@Rubidium>with some chop half of the sprite magic
06:14*peter1138 ponders...
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06:15<@Rubidium>though the chop half of the sprite magic is already in trunk (for halftile foundations)
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06:17<SmatZ>I have a code for sprite generating in runtime (for partially snowy tiles, so they work with newgrfs)
06:17<SmatZ>not in trunk
06:17<@peter1138>Hmm, level crossing overlay... do we want to allow for diagonal crossings?
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06:18<@peter1138>Which is another 4 sprites, I believe.
06:18<SmatZ>isn't the problem lack of space in the map array?
06:18<SmatZ>if we want to reserve space for 3rd road type the way it is done now
06:18<@peter1138>I don't know.
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06:19<Roujin>huh? talking about additional road types?
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06:19<@peter1138>SmatZ, I am writing down my NewGRF specification for rail types, in the process trying to remove some limitations.
06:20<Roujin>the map array has already all the bits for a third road type reserved
06:20<@peter1138>Yes, apparently taking the space that was used by the diagonal crossing patch.
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06:21<@Rubidium>level crossings still have some free mapspace
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06:22<@Rubidium>so diagonal crossings isn't a mapspace issue
06:23<@peter1138>SmatZ, basically I need to do this specification so that we don't end up having to do it TTDPatch's way which will not be flexible enough.
06:23<@peter1138>^ Is quite horrible and very limiting.
06:23<@peter1138>And is also unimplemented.
06:25<@peter1138>It misses the 'single ID per rail/road type' concept which imho is quite necesary.
06:25<@peter1138>Rubidium, so I should allow for it, do you think?
06:26<@Rubidium>yes, or at least not disallow it
06:26<@peter1138>I've added it in the spec :)
06:27<@Rubidium>what about autorail overlay sprites?
06:27<@peter1138>Does that matter?
06:28<@peter1138>Does it need differentiating?
06:28<@Rubidium>maybe someone wants to make the distance between the two rails smaller for narrow gauge or make it a single line for monorail or something like that
06:28<@Rubidium>basically action 5 type 13
06:29<@peter1138>.... 55 .... ?
06:29<@peter1138>How is there 55!?
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06:30<@Rubidium>different slopes
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06:31<@peter1138>Hmm, well, I'll add it. I guess I'll need a to make a reference on the layout of sprites within each section.
06:31<@Rubidium>"invalid pieces" for certain slopes where a train can't run
06:31<@peter1138>Ah, right.
06:31<@peter1138>We should make normal rail building use autorail sprites too.
06:32<Celestar>hey Brianetta
06:32<@peter1138>But that's a different issue :)
06:32*Rubidium agrees on that
06:32<SmatZ>peter1138: looks interesting, though it looks a lot of work :)
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06:32<Brianetta>hi Celestar
06:32<@peter1138>SmatZ, which are you looking at, my specification or that newroutes?
06:33<Celestar>Brianetta: we could use your help ;)
06:33<Celestar>Brianetta: you're running the ottdcoop right?
06:33<SmatZ>peter1138: I haven't seen your specification
06:33<@peter1138>^ Much saner, imho.
06:33<SmatZ>thanks :)
06:33<Brianetta>Celestar: I'm running the web site
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06:34<Celestar>Brianetta: who's running the servers?
06:34-!-Gekz [] has left #openttd []
06:34<Brianetta>Not sure
06:34<planetmaker>Hm... I thought, Brianetta, one of the servers is also on your box?
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06:34<Celestar>cuz we'd like to have big test with cargodest
06:35<@Rubidium>Celestar: /join #openttdcoop
06:35<planetmaker>Otherwise they're Ammler's and Phoenix_the_II's servers. But you may just ask #openttdcoop :P
06:35<Gekz>someone needs a server?
06:35<HaloMaster>hey, i can do a server if you need
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06:36<HaloMaster>i can give you root on it for a few days
06:38<HaloMaster>or even keep it, im not using it for much.
06:40<Brianetta>planetmaker: Used to be, certainly
06:40<planetmaker>I guess we found a server :)
06:41<planetmaker>our dev server
06:41<HaloMaster>i have a server you can use
06:41<planetmaker>seems somewhat appropriate :)
06:41<HaloMaster>on a 100mb line
06:41<Celestar>HaloMaster: I have a server (=
06:41<Celestar>HaloMaster: the problem is players (=
06:42<HaloMaster>ill play, i just need the files
06:42<Noldo>Celestar: when?
06:42<Celestar>Noldo: When the boost thing is solved and we have nightlies
06:42<Celestar>sometime this week I guess
06:42<HaloMaster>Celestar: Just pm me and ill give you the details to my server
06:44<Roujin>by the way the -m grep option that is used there seems to be non-standard, as a google search revealed
06:44<Celestar>peter1138: we should decide on a boost version at some point
06:44<Noldo>Celestar: what is the boost thing about?
06:44<Celestar>Noldo: it's a library we use for cargodest
06:45<Noldo>That much I knew
06:45<Celestar>Noldo: we're using the boost graph library (BGL) that is for, doh, graphs
06:45<Noldo>but what it the 'thing' about it that needs solving?
06:46<Celestar>Noldo: er ... basically how to include it in openttd
06:46<Roujin>they want to include the necessary files so that users don't have to install it externally
06:46<@peter1138>Celestar, I'd say "latest", to be honest. It can be updated later then, too...
06:46<Celestar>Noldo: currently preferred option is svn:externals
06:46<Celestar>peter1138: you mean HEAD at time of checkout or HEAD of now?
06:47<Celestar>Rubidium: you said you wanted a code review. Wanna do one? :P
06:49<@peter1138>Celestar, as long as it's always the same for a given OpenTTD revision...
06:51<Celestar>peter1138: yeah
06:51<Celestar>peter1138: I'll try to identify a good and working boost revision
06:51<Celestar>got a C++ question:
06:53<Celestar>I have class foo { virtual void f() = 0; }; class bar : public foo { virtual void f() { DoSummin(); } }; class qux : public foo { void f() { DoSummin(); } };
06:53<Celestar>what's the difference between bar::f and qux::f
06:55<Noldo>the DoSummin is a static function or const in terms of this
06:56<Celestar>or rather: when I should use one or the other?
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06:59<Progman>Celestar, peter1138: something new to pull for paxdest?
07:00<planetmaker>Celestar: when you have a version which you want to run on our dev server, please just say so and then tell me where from :)
07:00<Celestar>Progman: since when?
07:00<Celestar>planetmaker: will do so
07:00<planetmaker>having it as svn branch indeed would be easiest for me - I know how to handle that :)
07:00<Progman>around the 7. and 8. Aug
07:01<planetmaker>(or as patch to trunk)
07:01<Celestar>Progman: quite some fixes
07:01<planetmaker>and I'm quite looking forward :D
07:02<Roujin>Celestar: the income/transfer display is not fixed yet, right?
07:02<Celestar>planetmaker: let's hope there aren no desyncs
07:02<planetmaker>:) I do!
07:02<Celestar>Roujin: no because I'm not quite sure what is actually going wrong
07:03<Celestar>Roujin: if you have a savegame, it'd be awesome
07:03<Celestar>Roujin: is it reproducible?
07:03<Roujin>it seems to happen all the time at my game...
07:03<Progman>how do I check which revision I got in the hg checkout?
07:04<Progman>as there is no "hg info" o_O
07:05<Progman>got it (..somehow) with hg heads
07:06<Roujin>then again.. I'm not sure I'm really running the newest version since it said after pulling that i have to run "hg update" to get a working copy, which I haven't done
07:07<Roujin>and right now my turtoiseHQ freezed :/
07:07<Progman>Roujin: I got 19509:d2c82481a3b6 from Fri Aug 08 18:20:11 2008 +0100, check if you got a newer one ;)
07:08<Progman>hmm, its eating cpu usage like hell
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07:09<Celestar>it is?
07:09<Celestar>how big is the game?
07:10<Progman>~100 trains with ~100 stations
07:10<Celestar>Progman: there have been HUGE performance increases since then ;)
07:11<Progman>so, 19509:d2c82481a3b6 isn't the newest update?
07:12<Roujin>what number is that anyways oO
07:12<Celestar>peter1138: Rubidium: when declaring a virtual function in a derived class, should we mark it with /* virtual */ and if so, declaration only or declaration and definition?
07:12*Progman shrugs
07:12<Celestar>Progman: nope
07:12<Progman>how to get the newest?
07:12<Celestar>the number is revision_number:SHA1hash
07:12<Roujin>pull from
07:12<Celestar>hg pull; hg update; make
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07:13<Eddi|zuHause>hm... depot sprites... what if anyone wants to do a "transparent" depot, then he'd also need two sprites for the "northish" ones
07:14<Roujin>I think I understand now why I had those desyncs when we did that multiplayer test
07:14<Celestar>Roujin: you do?
07:14<Roujin>i forgot the hg update, so I got the new revision number but not the changes >_<
07:14<Roujin>I think that was the case..
07:15<Celestar>Roujin: yeah that is possible
07:15<Progman>"abort: outstanding uncommitted merges"
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07:15<Progman>what now?
07:15<Celestar>Progman: you have local changes?!
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07:15<Progman>I guess not
07:15<Celestar>hg revert -a
07:16<Celestar>peter1138: I'm moving all the method doxygen stuff into the ABC
07:16<Roujin>well I still get a bunch of warnings on the boost files upon compiling, but meh.. :)
07:16<Progman>abort: uncommitted merge - please provide a specific revision
07:16<Progman>hg may be great if I know how to use...
07:17<Roujin>ah and the makefile does still "grep -m" which my grep does not know :)
07:17<Celestar>Progman: maybe you should just delete everything and start over with the pull (=
07:18<Roujin>grep -m seems to be specific for cygwin grep,
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>my grep has -m
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>and i'm far away from cygwin
07:18<Roujin>quote on that page: Finding no such equivalent with the default grep, sorry. :/
07:19<Noldo>what on earth is defaylt grep?
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07:21<Roujin>umm... grep is a program that lets you search through files, basically
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure he wondered about the "default" part, not the "grep" part :p
07:23<Roujin>well the guy that I quoted probably means "the grep that was shipped with my machine" or something
07:24<Roujin>or, that came with my OS
07:24<@peter1138>SmatZ, does it make sense? heh
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07:27<Roujin>Celestar: i didn't have the latest version running, so I'm updating now and will then check if the income/transfer display still displays weird stuff :)
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07:30<Celestar>Roujin: I guess it does (=
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07:35<blathijs>Celestar: Why do you want to put virtual in a comment?
07:35<Progman>ou yeah, performence is much better ;)
07:35<blathijs>Celestar: Or do you mean if the superclass function is virtual, but the subclass' version isn't?
07:36<blathijs>Progman: :-)
07:37<Celestar>blathijs: class foo { virtual void f() = 0; }; class bar : public foo { void f(int blah) {return blah + 1;} // this function is virtual! };
07:38<Noldo>what is that about?
07:38<blathijs>Celestar: You mean, our parent's version of this function is virtual, then
07:38<blathijs>Makes sense to put that in comment I guess
07:38*blathijs is off
07:38<Celestar>blathijs: so some people write: class bar : public foo { /* virtual */ void f(int blah); }
07:38<Celestar>well, doxygen knows that automatically
07:39<Celestar>and I dunno whether the user of the class really cares
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07:39<Roujin>okay, so the income/transfer text issue is still there. It looks like the following:
07:39<ashaw>is signal status stored in the map array?
07:40<Roujin>I load a game. There are some trains that get both income and transfer money. They display "Transfer: [some amount] Income: 0"
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07:41<Roujin>after some time, it changes to "Transfer: [some amount] Income: DM 24.870"
07:41<Roujin>always DM 24.870
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07:43<Roujin>in pounds it will always say "Transfer: [some amount] Income: 8,290"
07:43<Celestar>Roujin: I see
07:43<Celestar>Roujin: can you give me a savegame please?
07:43<Celestar>hey doxygen inherits documentation \o/
07:49<Roujin>the next three trains arriving at Sleburg train station should all show the behavior
07:50<Roujin>hmm now it shows some other number than 24.870, but it's the same for all the trains
07:50<Roujin>guess it's a pointer pointing somewhere into garbage memory
07:51<Celestar>let me wrap this cleaning up and then I'll have a look at it
07:53<@peter1138>Pom te pom.
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08:01<@peter1138> < Hehe, can you see what I did? ;)
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08:06<Ammler>Roujin: does your intro patch still work?
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08:07<Yorick>what's the max value a penalty for a tile can be in YAPF?
08:07<[1]Roujin>Ammler: not with current trunk
08:08<[1]Roujin>that part was OO'ified
08:08<[1]Roujin>I can't just access it from the main menu any more :( so it'd need quite some rewrite
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08:09<Ammler>does commanderz's patch also jump?
08:09<[1]Roujin>which one
08:09-!-Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:09<Ammler>his screensaver
08:09<Yorick>it does
08:09<Ammler>also from sign to sign?
08:09<[1]Roujin>to random positions or to signs?
08:09<[1]Roujin>the jumping is not the problem
08:10<Yorick>I think it's using roujin's patch
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08:10<Yorick>what's the max value a yapf penalty can be?
08:11<Yorick>Ammler: I'm working on penalty-points, what value shall I clamp them to?
08:11<Ammler>more then 2 byte
08:12<Ammler>penalty for what?
08:12<Ammler>too short stations have 4k, that is imo the highest default
08:12<Yorick>Ammler: like openttdcoop uses stations to say trains shouldn't prefer to go somewhere
08:12<Ammler>apart from the eol of 2way red
08:13<[1]Roujin>the yapf patch settings are stored in UINT, and their max value is 1000000 for most
08:13<Yorick>sizeof(uint) == sizeof(uint32)?
08:14<[1]Roujin>20000 for pf.yapf.rail_longer_platform_penalty, pf.yapf.rail_longer_platform_per_tile_penalty, pf.yapf.rail_shorter_platform_penalty and pf.yapf.rail_shorter_platform_per_tile_penalty
08:15<Yorick>is that the default or the max?
08:15<Yorick>ok, I'll clamp to that
08:15<Ammler>hmm, thought 4k is default
08:15<Yorick>thank you :)
08:15<Celestar>Progman: any performance problems with the latest version?
08:15<[1]Roujin>1.000.000 for all others than those 4
08:15<Ammler>but I might have a screwed cfg :-
08:15<[1]Roujin>Ammler: default for what?
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08:16<Ammler>well, source should tell you better :-)O
08:16*peter1138 ponders rearranging the sprites entries to have common ground between road & rail
08:16<[1]Roujin>Ammler: default for what penalty?
08:18<@peter1138>Hmm, road types require a bit more thinking on the overlay front.
08:18<[1]Roujin>for pf.yapf.rail_shorter_platform_penalty default should be 4k
08:19<Celestar>recomputing the entire route network with debug=3 can be unfun
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08:24<Progman>running with routing=6 is unfun too ;)
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08:29<[1]Roujin>Celestar: economy.cpp:1485 --vehicle_profit ++route_profit
08:29<[1]Roujin>my guess
08:30<[1]Roujin>compiling and testing atm
08:31<[1]Roujin>could be wrong though..
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08:32<Celestar>[1]Roujin: ?
08:33<Celestar>what the HELL is Money :P
08:33<Yorick>Money money
08:34<@peter1138>It's a type.
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08:34<Celestar>yeah and how do I print its value?
08:34<Celestar>I mean human-understadible?
08:34<Celestar>p income
08:34<Celestar>$17 = { m_value = 894842471656328
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08:39<Celestar>(gdb) p (long long)cost.m_value
08:39<Celestar>$24 = -4636689425023685744
08:40<Celestar>what kinda variable is this then :P
08:40<Celestar>and how can "GetString" operate with "Money" ?
08:41<@peter1138>SetDParam(0, MoneyValue); ...
08:41<Celestar>but how can I read out it's value
08:42<Celestar>it appears impossible
08:42<ln>errrr, that terrible SetDParam thing is still in use?
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08:43<Celestar>ln: yeah
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08:43<Celestar>for lack of a better alternative
08:43<@peter1138>It works well enough.
08:43<+glx>and it supports newgrf params
08:44<Celestar>I still wonder how to read the value :P
08:45<Celestar>of a "Money" variable
08:45<Celestar>in the debugger
08:45<Celestar>#0 ShowFeederIncomeAnimation (x=7060, y=6248, z=16, cost={m_value = -4636689425023685744}, income={m_value = 894842471656328})
08:45<Celestar>this looks all fucked up
08:46<Celestar>the call is correct
08:46<Ammler>how can I see, which svn rev is the last merged in a hg repo?
08:46<+glx>hg log
08:46<Ammler>just look for (svn:XX)
08:47<Ammler>then I update svn trunk to that rev and run "diff -u hg-repo svn-repo" to make a svn diff?
08:48*Celestar shouts
08:48<[1]Roujin>Celestar: got something here
08:49<+glx>Celestar: there's a (int64) operator
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08:50<Yorick> <-- any comments on this?
08:50<[1]Roujin>could it be that you wrote the second value in "SetDParam(1)" and here (texteff.cpp:309) it reads GetDParam(4) ?
08:51<[1]Roujin>SetDParam(1) in misc_gui.cpp:590
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08:52<Davidbrcz>plop all
08:52*[1]Roujin plops
08:53<Davidbrcz>plop = hello
08:53*Yorick plops
08:53<Yorick>in what language?
08:53<[1]Roujin>oh. I thought it was an order
08:53-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit []
08:53*[1]Roujin rearranges himself
08:53*Yorick plops Roujin
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08:54*Celestar shakes his head
08:54*[1]Roujin yet again rearranges himself, but is missing an eye that has rolled under the sofa :(
08:55<Davidbrcz>guts, i'm a noob at openttd and i've a question
08:55<Davidbrcz>train and camion fail down too much
08:56<Yorick>disable breakdowns
08:56<Davidbrcz>do you know how i could avrte this ?
08:56<[1]Roujin>Celestar: seems to work better now, but there's a minus too much I think
08:57<Celestar>[1]Roujin: yeah I'm already fixing it (=
08:57<[1]Roujin>income: [red]- something DM
08:57<Yorick> <-- any comments on this?
08:57<+glx>Yorick: yes you used tabs when you should use spaces
08:58<Yorick>glx: where?
08:58<+glx>new strings
08:59<[1]Roujin>comments are out of shape
08:59<[1]Roujin>and command.cpp
09:00<Yorick>they aren't here
09:01<[1]Roujin>did you use tabs?
09:01<+glx>Yorick: why not do it like other penalties?
09:01<[1]Roujin>he wants it to be configurable on each waypoint
09:01<[1]Roujin>i guess
09:02<+glx>I think it's useless :)
09:02<[1]Roujin>so that one can set up different waypoints with different penalties
09:02<Celestar>[1]Roujin: but good find
09:02<Yorick>glx: why?
09:03<Celestar>[1]Roujin: I dunno why the hell AddTextEffect only reads the first and fifth parameter :P
09:03<Yorick>and it's the idea of it :)
09:03<[1]Roujin>Celestar: you might hit another difficulty with that double scrolling text
09:03<[1]Roujin>seems the right end flickers some times
09:03<Yorick>Roujin: I only used tabs at the beginning of lines
09:04<+glx>not in english.txt Yorick
09:04<Yorick>spaces on other parts
09:04<[1]Roujin>Yorick: oh, then I don't know why it's misaligned. Maybe pastebin broke it
09:05<Celestar>[1]Roujin: that's not the ONLY problem
09:05<Yorick>glx: I'm quite sure I'm using spaces there
09:05<+glx>the misalignment proves the opposite
09:05<Celestar>[1]Roujin: find the mistake:
09:05<Yorick>glx: does it?
09:06<[1]Roujin>Celestar:... beats me
09:06<+glx>if it's misaligned in pastebin, it's misaligned in your code (or you used tabs)
09:06<Celestar>[1]Roujin: check the income .. it changes
09:06<Yorick>what fonts are you using?
09:07<+glx>it's a monospace font
09:07<Yorick>hmm, could you name one for me?
09:08<[1]Roujin>uhm... what do you mean, it changes? :/
09:08<+glx>Yorick: courrier new
09:08<Yorick>I'm using that too
09:08<Celestar>[1]Roujin: during the "ascent" of the text effect, the value it displays changes
09:08<Yorick>but english.txt is a complete unaligned mess for me
09:09<[1]Roujin>uh.. is that a known issue?
09:09<[1]Roujin>with income texts?
09:09<+glx>then your editor doesn't use a monospace font for .txt
09:09<[1]Roujin>or is it specific to your code
09:09<Celestar>[1]Roujin: no. only with transfers, sor not in trunk
09:10<[1]Roujin>hmm, it only happens on the income part, not the transfer part it seems
09:11<+glx>Celestar: then the value is changed by something
09:12<Yorick>ah, it was misaligned here
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09:16<Celestar>peter1138: is it ok when we display "Transfer: " and "Income: " on top of each other instead of next to?
09:16<Yorick> :)
09:18<+glx>better, still wrong in waypoint.h
09:18<Progman>Celestar: the way it shown next to each other looks great
09:19<Celestar>Progman: I agree, but that might mean rewriting the TextEffect thingy if I want it working :P
09:19<+glx>Yorick: and functions should start with a cap
09:21<Progman>Celestar: what about sct like (the wow addon) *g*
09:21<+glx>Yorick: btw it should work for all PFs
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09:23<@Belugas>_rename_what -> MAGIC NUMBERS :D
09:23<@Belugas>let's dig it a bit
09:23<Celestar>Progman: er .. what?! :P
09:24<Progman>Celestar: I try to search for a video which shows this "scrolling combat text"
09:24<Progman>for a new TextEffect thingy ;)
09:25<Celestar>it's not my intention to rewrite the GUI in the cardodest development :P
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09:26<Progman>Celestar: the floating stuff on the right
09:26<Progman>imagine that with "Income" to the left and "Transfer" to the right ;)
09:28<JdGordon>hey all... can anyone point me to roughly where in the code I would look to fix it so ctrl+alt+click would remove a signal (like ctrl+click does for tracks)? not being able to remove signals without manually chooising the removal tool is driving me nuts
09:28<Progman>not just going up but like a rainbow ;)
09:28<+glx>JdGordon: press 'R' when tool signal is selected
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09:29<JdGordon>:D thanks
09:31<JdGordon>so, with the new signals are the old presignals still needed?
09:32<[1]Roujin>Celestar: well it beats me why that happens to the income part but not to the transfer part
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>JdGordon: not for normal users...
09:33<@Belugas>JdGordon, they can be mixed and we do not want to force users to use this or that signal
09:33<Celestar>[1]Roujin: me too
09:33<JdGordon>fair enough
09:33<Celestar>Belugas: do you know anything about the Texteffect thingy?
09:33*JdGordon loving the new signals
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09:34<@Belugas>Celestar, anything specific?
09:34<@Belugas>i've got very little knowledge of the whole text stuff, to be honest
09:34<@Belugas>but ask, and we'll dig it together (if time allows of course)
09:34<+glx>Celestar: do you have a diff?
09:35<Phantasm>Belugas: Any significant updates on general for OTTD in uhm half a year?
09:35<+glx>Phantasm: yapp
09:35<[1]Roujin>since half a year?
09:35<Celestar>Belugas: yes. I have added a texteffect with two Dparams (0 and 4 because AddTextEffect does that). Now while the text effect is on display, the second parameter (index 4) changes when I set it for another text effect
09:35<Celestar>glx: diff against what? ;)
09:35<+glx>well is the bug in your working copy or is it commited?
09:36<@Belugas>dparams 0 and 4? seems wrong to me. maybe waht happens is that another string fiddles with your 2nd param
09:37<@Belugas>or soemthing
09:37<Celestar>glx: the bug is in my working copy
09:37<Celestar>Belugas: apparently texteffects are not ment to use > 1 DParam
09:37<+glx>then a diff can help to find the bug :)
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09:39<Celestar>this is where I am now :P
09:39<Gekz>Celestar: how uncouth
09:39<Celestar>in the beginning :P
09:39*Belugas checks
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09:40<@Belugas>Celestar, add another SKIP ?
09:42<Celestar>4-1 = 3?
09:42<[1]Roujin>why? it uses 0, skips 123, then uses 4..
09:42-!-Doorslammer is now known as Borkslammer
09:42<+glx>btw it seems there's never a SetDParam(4,xxx) before AddTextEffect
09:42<Celestar>glx: no there isn't
09:42-!-Borkslammer is now known as Doorslammer
09:43<+glx>so maybe you can change AddTextEffect() to take param 1 instead param 4
09:43<[1]Roujin>is it documented somewhere which DParams are used for what?
09:44<Celestar>[1]Roujin: yes. src/lang/$LANGUAGE.txt
09:44*Belugas reads the code of AddTextEffect
09:46<+glx>,>params[0] = params_1;
09:46<+glx>,>params[1] = params_2;
09:46<+glx>in AddStringToDraw()
09:46<+glx>that could explain things
09:46<Celestar>glx: yeah
09:46<Celestar>glx: but it's never really set :P
09:47<Celestar>glx: SetDParam(1, ss->params[1]);
09:47<Celestar>that's where it is used
09:47<Celestar>as a "normal" DParam
09:48<+glx>but params[1] is indeed param 4 used in AddTextEffect
09:48*Celestar nods
09:48<Celestar>but what's the idea behind this
09:49<@peter1138>Damn it, I don't have grfcodec :o
09:49<+glx>dunno, probably old stuff
09:49<+glx>peter1138: you want it?
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09:49<@Belugas>confirmed, 4th param is never set
09:49<@Belugas>only used in misc_gui.cpp
09:50<Celestar>Belugas: yeah, but why and how is it overridden?
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09:50<@Belugas>i think it's more left overs, not sure, still digging
09:50<@peter1138>Nah, building it :)
09:51<Celestar>Belugas: it's never used ANYWHERE :o
09:51<Celestar>Belugas: the question is: why and how is it overwritten?
09:52<+glx>it's not overwritten
09:52<+glx>it uses what is in the memory
09:52<@Belugas>yeah -> "left overs"
09:53<Celestar>glx: so why is the parameter 0 not "overwritten" ?
09:53*Belugas checks AddStringToDraw
09:53<+glx>just fix AddTextEffect() and UpdateTextEffect() to use param 1
09:53<Celestar>and then?
09:54<+glx>text effect param 2 is dparam 4 but AddStringToDraw put it as dparam 1
09:54*Belugas nods
09:54<+glx>so your string reads what ever is at dparam 4 when it's drawn
09:55*Celestar goes fixing
09:55*Belugas wonders about usefullness of such a system, by the way
09:56<Celestar>Belugas: zero, but that's what I have ...
09:57*Belugas have learned recently that very view code is not usefull, no matter how "silly" it might look
09:57<Yorick>glx: I can make it work for npf too, ntp I'm not sure of
09:58-!-[com]buster [] has joined #openttd
10:00<@Belugas>ViewportDrawStrings just copies back the copid params of AddStringToDraw to params 0 and 1
10:01<@Belugas>Celestar, have yoyu tried without the skips?
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10:03<Celestar>Belugas: compiling
10:05<+glx>Belugas: the problem is probably in AddTextEffect and UpdateTextEffect
10:06<[1]Roujin>The whole stuff with DParams has to do with newgrfs, so that they can override the strings, right?
10:06-!-fonso [] has joined #openttd
10:06<[1]Roujin>or not?
10:06<@Belugas>not in this problem, [1]Roujin
10:06<[1]Roujin>but basically?
10:07<@Belugas>neither :)
10:07<[1]Roujin>else they could just be passed as parameters?
10:07<@Belugas>glx, yes, i agree
10:07<[1]Roujin>instead of writing them in some global array and then reading from it again? :/
10:08<@Belugas>just that the need to "jump" parameters like that eludes me a lot, knowing where the code is called
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>[1]Roujin: the "DParam" system is probably from r1
10:08<+glx>[1]Roujin: it comes from how it's done in TTD
10:08<+glx>that's why newgrf use the same system
10:10<Yorick>glx: ntp doesn't know penalties...
10:10<@Belugas>[1]Roujin, if ever the system has to be re-written, it will have to be able to read and adapt to newgrf strings
10:10<@Belugas>so, better let it as it is
10:10<@Belugas>and just fix incoherences
10:10<@Belugas>of hysterical code
10:11<@Rubidium>[1]Roujin: but parameters can't be memcpy-ed to a secondary array to be drawn again later
10:13<@Rubidium>and doing things like: rotate the top 4 parameters is tricky to do too
10:13<@Rubidium>when using parameters
10:15<Yorick>Belugas: should I enumify _rename_what?
10:16<@Belugas>not sure Yorick. I wonder if it can simply be replaced by a new process instead... pretty lame tu use a global to specify what is been renamed, in my book
10:17*Rubidium agrees with Belugas
10:20<Progman>Celestar: the vehicle cargo view view will be updated to show all cargos destinations like in the station view, won't it?
10:21<Celestar>Progman: er?
10:21<Celestar>Progman: ask peter ;)
10:22<Celestar>he's more into GUI
10:22<Celestar>not sure that is really practical
10:23<Progman>atm you got "just": 45 Pax (360 Pax)
10:23<[1]Roujin>I'd say in the "total cargo" tab only
10:23<Progman>and have no clue where they want ;)
10:23<Celestar>[1]Roujin: good idea. Pull again from galadriel and see what you see
10:23<Celestar>Progman: yeah (=
10:23<Celestar>peter1138 will gladly do it
10:23<Celestar>I think for the individual wagon view it is 1) clumsy and 2) pointless, but the Total display .. why not
10:24<Celestar>maybe only destinations and not origins
10:24<@peter1138>I'll look into it.
10:24<Celestar>peter1138: I will be offline tomorrow, most likely wednesday and Thursday-Saturday
10:26<[1]Roujin>shit, clicked on "browse"
10:27<+glx>it will be harder to do it for other than train I think
10:27<Progman>btw. what happends to cargo packages which cannot delivered to the destination anymore? hanging around in the network or get they dropped/retargered?
10:28<Celestar>Progman: depends on reason
10:28<[1]Roujin>I have seen some mail lying around going to "anywhere"
10:28<Celestar>Progman: if the acceptance changes, they get retargeted
10:29<Celestar>Progman: that's about the only relevant thing for the routing system
10:29<[1]Roujin>compiling.. that will take a while :D
10:29<Celestar>[1]Roujin: er .. I'll have to go in a minute
10:29<Celestar>just keep posting here or even better: PM me
10:30<[1]Roujin>forum PM?
10:30<Celestar>whatever you wish
10:30<Celestar> would be great too
10:30<[1]Roujin>will do :)
10:31<Celestar>Progman: if you cannot reach the station anymore at all, they get dropped
10:31<Celestar>(cleanly, not while in transit :P)
10:31<Progman>"no ticket" like in indy3/dogma ;)
10:32<Celestar>cu later tonight
10:32<Celestar>peter1138: if you have any fixes/changes, can you fire up your hg later tnoight?
10:32<Celestar>that'd be great
10:33<[1]Roujin>bye Celestar :)
10:42<@Rubidium>peter1138: action 0 road type property 0D seems pointless to me
10:42-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
10:43<@Rubidium>hmm, actually a lot of numbers seem to be incorrect
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10:45<Yorick>glx: <-- I fixed the function name, added NPF, and fixed alignments :)
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10:46<@Belugas>+ inline uint32 GetPenalty() { return this->penalty; }
10:46<@Belugas>would add const between penaly and {retu
10:47-!-Reemo [] has joined #openttd
10:47<Yorick>it isn't really a const
10:47<dih>patch setting for a default penalty?
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10:48<@Belugas>granted, but you do not cahnge the internals by Getting Penalty
10:48<@Belugas>thus, the call is a const
10:48<@Belugas>even is the value is not
10:49<Yorick>dih: no, programmable penalty for waypoints
10:50<dih>yes - but why not a server default value, instead of a hard coded 0
10:50<dih>like all yapf penalties are also configurable
10:51<Yorick>why would you require a default any higher than 0?
10:51<@Belugas>becasue he's a server admin...
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10:51<Yorick>the idea is that you can optionally set a penalty for waypoints
10:51-!-svippy [] has joined #openttd
10:51<dih>and if i optionally want waypoints on my server to have the same penalty as road crossings?
10:51<dih>(i.e. 300)
10:52<@Belugas>see? told you
10:52<Yorick>then users would be able to change them away
10:52<dih>yes - sure they can change them
10:52<dih>but the default no longer was 0
10:52*Yorick doesn't think belugas is always right
10:52<dih>which has a totally different handling
10:52<Yorick>dih: I'll implement :)
10:53<Yorick>just lucky sometimes
10:53<dih>and while you are at it, an option that stops users from changing the server side configured default
10:53<+glx>+ case MP_RAILWAY:
10:53<+glx>+ if (IsRailWaypoint(tile))
10:53<+glx>+ cost += GetWaypointByTile(tile)->GetPenalty();
10:53<+glx>wrong style
10:54<Yorick>glx: hm?
10:54<+glx>multiline if needs {}
10:54<Yorick>it is a single lime if
10:55<Yorick>just indented
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's clearly a two line if()
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10:55<dih>it's a multiline
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>i can count the lines: one, two. there? seen it?
10:56<[1]Roujin>if (IsRailWaypoint(tile)) cost += ...; <-- that's okay
10:56<[1]Roujin>if (IsRailWaypoint(tile)) [ENTER] <-- use brackets
10:56<dih>well - you can detect single line if's just by the fact they are on a ... single line!
10:56<Yorick>glx: look at line 129 of the same file
10:57<Yorick> if (IsLevelCrossing(tile))
10:57<Yorick> cost += Yapf().PfGetSettings().rail_crossing_penalty;
10:57<Yorick>2 lines, no brackets
10:57<+glx>not a valid reason :)
10:57<+glx>KUDr tends to not follow the style
10:57-!-Yexo [] has joined #openttd
10:57<dih>YEXO ;-)
10:58<Yexo>hello dih
10:58<Yorick>what has he done today?
10:58<dih>entered a channel, and greeted me
10:58<dih>that's all i care for right now :-P
10:59<Yorick>you greeted him first :P
10:59<@Belugas>Yorick, life wold be far more enjoyable if you stopped arguing abut every comments been done
10:59<Yexo>Belugas: are you sure it is?
10:59<@Belugas>reminds me of jezz
10:59*Yorick still doesn't think belugas is always right, but is not going to argue about that
10:59<@Belugas>well.. Yorick cold disappear, that would help :D
11:00<@Belugas>but i'd say that sometimes, the kiddo does bring some vaguely usefull stuff, if not amusement
11:01<@Belugas>ho... i'm not always right, by far, and i never intended to be :)
11:01<Yorick>could you stop channenging me to argue then :)
11:02<@Belugas>ho... like... /ignore Yorick?
11:02<+glx>@kick Yorick don't argue with the devs
11:02-!-Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [don't argue with the devs]
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11:03<Yorick>glx: I didn't even do that yet!
11:03<+glx>better safe than sorry ;)
11:03<Yexo><Yorick> glx: I didn't even do that yet! <- you just started :p
11:04<Yorick>no I didn't
11:04<dih>and again
11:04<dih>good job Yexo aint an official dev
11:04<Yorick>neither is he an unofficial one, afaik
11:05<@Belugas>who knows, he might eventually be
11:05<dih>he's one of the favourd noai patchers :-P
11:05<Yexo>what is an 'unofficial' dev anyway?
11:05<dih>a patcher ;-)
11:05<@Belugas>Yorick, he has far more stuff been commited than you :P
11:05<dih>and he never talks gibberish
11:05<Yorick>he makes far more useful patches
11:06<Yexo>well, it's far more easy to get something committed to noai than to trunk
11:06<@Belugas>but since noai is going to be in trunk one day...
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11:07*dih looks forward to that day
11:07<dih>~vista? yuck
11:09*Yorick looks more forward to the day newgrfports gets merged
11:09-!-Pasko [] has joined #openttd
11:10*Yexo thinks both of them will take quite a while
11:10<Pasko>Hi, would you guys be interested in a Grid Server mirror? i won free lifetime media temple hosting and i wish to support OpenTTD
11:10*Belugas forwards to TrueBrain
11:11-!-Pasko is now known as Enkera
11:12<@Bjarni>lifetime hosting.... I wonder if it's still valid in 70 years
11:12<dih>hi Pasko
11:12<Enkera>lets hope so xD
11:12<dih>ah - Enkera
11:12<Enkera>hi dude
11:12<dih>i'll show you the way :-P
11:12*Yexo wonders if OpenTTD is still alive in 70 years
11:13<Enkera>hes got a point
11:13<SpComb>will media temple still be alive in 70 years?
11:13<SpComb>less likely than OpenTTD being alive then
11:13<Enkera>we'll all be in huge simulators and driving the trains ourselves
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling in 70 years the copyright issues are still not resolved...
11:16-!-Farden [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: )]
11:17<Enkera>in 70 years you only have to think up a game and the computer will generate it for you :P
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11:20<Eddi|zuHause>that's a common misunderstanding of computers... when the easy questions are easier to answer, the questions get more difficult
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>there are always questions left that are not easy to answer
11:26<Yorick>dih: would you like the option of disabling waypenalties as a gui setting?
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11:27<dih>Yorick: what do i do with qui setting?
11:27<Yorick>g != q...
11:27<dih>perhaps it should be possible to have a server side default, that propagates to a client side default and the client side default is what is used
11:27<dih>and a server side setting to enable / disable clients from changing that default
11:27<Yorick>I'm making that
11:28<@Belugas>not all server admins are using console commands...
11:28<@Belugas>not all servers are dedicated
11:28<dih>non-dedicated servers also have a console :-P
11:28-!-fonso [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 :]
11:28<dih>and how do you change the server password on a non dedicated server?
11:28<@Belugas>yeah, but not all server admin want to deal with console :P*2
11:28<dih>how do you change yapf penalties on a non-dedicated server?
11:29<dih>infact any penalties
11:29<@Belugas>by using guis!
11:29<fmauNeko>hmm, when trying to make, i have that : Makefile:81: *** multiple target patterns. Stop.
11:29<Yorick>Belugas: come again?
11:29<@Belugas>not on irc
11:29<Yorick>penalty settings don't have gui options
11:29<+glx>fmauNeko: that's strange
11:30<@Rubidium>fmauNeko: don't use a path with a colon in it
11:30<fmauNeko>beuh :D
11:30<fmauNeko>Rubidium: thx :)
11:30<@Rubidium>as that breaks make horribly
11:31<dih>Belugas: there are a lot of settings that cannot be changed with the gui
11:32<@Belugas>yeah well... might change one day
11:32*Belugas has an idea for that, but no time to work on it
11:35<@Rubidium>dih: what settings can't be changed in the GUI version of OpenTTD?
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11:36<Yorick> YAPFSettings
11:36<dih>Rubidium: any penlaties
11:37<Yorick>NPFSettings, OPFSettings
11:37<dih>to change those, one either has to enter a command via console, or change directly in the config
11:37<@Rubidium>the console is a gui! :)
11:37<Yorick>I disagree
11:37<dih>Rubidium: now you are just splitting hairs, and you fully know what i mean ;-)
11:38<dih>Yorick: you know what heppens when arguing with dev's
11:38<dih>besides - why do you respond when a line starts with 'dih:'?
11:39<Yorick>because I had a screen with the answers in front of it...
11:40<dih>those are annyoing trades :-P
11:41<dih>rephrase - those are trades that annoy me :-P
11:41<dih>will not want to speak for others....
11:41-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:41<Yorick>now I can agree to you :)
11:41<@Rubidium>dih: then you "just" have to wait till someone is bored enough to rewrite the configuration GUI stuff
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11:42<Brianetta>Any way to un-stick a stuck articulated tram?
11:42<Brianetta>It's teleporting across its tile, then turning around
11:43<Fennec>is their track on either end for it to go to?
11:43<dih>Rubidium: i dont even use the gui, so i am not fussed :-P
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11:43<dih>hello Brianetta ;-)
11:45<dih>Rubidium: i was merely making a point that there were such settings ;-)
11:47<@Belugas>may i make a point in specifying that it's not all server admin who want to type in commands in console? Lost of newbies are trying to be server admin, so i'd say do not ask them to all run under your style of management
11:48<dih>Belugas: so you want to build a dedicated server gui?
11:48<dih>with a new socket
11:48<Yorick>doesn't such a thing already exist in the form of a nondedicated server gui?
11:48<dih>a nice screen where you can chat, see all clients in their colors & companies, and have access to all options
11:48<dih>without being in the game
11:49<dih>just for the newbies
11:49<Yorick>ah that way
11:49<dih>who can consider runing a server without reading docs
11:50<Yorick>dih: just for the newbies, there is a manual to the dedicated server
11:50<dih>once they read the wiki pages, they are able to use console commands
11:50<Yorick>list_patches currently overflows the console output ;)
11:51<@Belugas>[11:48] <Yorick> doesn't such a thing already exist in the form of a nondedicated server gui? <--- for once, i have to go with Yorick
11:51<dih>gui or dedicated
11:51<Yorick>there is a fs report of it somewhere
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11:53<@Belugas>dih, you are too dedicated/console oriented to be a good judge
11:54<@Belugas>not saying that in an offensive way...
11:54<@Belugas>just ...
11:54<@Belugas>a remark
11:57<[1]Roujin>i'll be back later
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11:58<dih>Belugas: yes - gui wise a draw back, but dedicated server wise a + :-P
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12:01<dih>but perhaps i can update the wiki pages to the console? that would be helpful to a bunch of newbies (if they ever read them)
12:01<@Belugas>good idea
12:02<@Belugas>"And Nothing Else matteuuuuurzzaa"
12:04<Eddi|zuHause># Das ist alles nur geklaut - eeh ooh eoh
12:04<Eddi|zuHause># Das ist alles gar nicht meine - eoh
12:05<Eddi|zuHause># Das ist alles nur geklaut, und gestohlen, nur gezogen und geraubt
12:05<Eddi|zuHause># Entschuldigung, das hab ich mir erlaubt
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12:24<Wolf01>what do you think?
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12:26<@Bjarni>looks somewhat familiar :)
12:28<Wolf01>I'm redesigning the brickland with mlcad
12:29<Ammler>yay, we have a save which asserts everytime
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12:29<Yorick>yay, what have you done with it
12:31<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14040 /trunk/src/widget.cpp:
12:31<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Codechange:Remove a hard coded value that is not even representative,
12:31<CIA-5>OpenTTD: since captions have their own encoded colours in string.
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12:35<@peter1138>Yay, compatible/powered railtypes working :D
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12:37<hylje>generic rails?
12:38<Wolf01>Steam monorail?
12:38<Ammler>dynamic tracks :-)
12:38<hylje>rails with actual attributes instead of arbitrary vehicle constraints?
12:38<@peter1138>Hmm, autoconvert seems messed up :(
12:38<Yorick>another something with auto*
12:38<@peter1138>er, not auto
12:38<@Bjarni><Ammler> dynamic tracks :-) <-- more like dynamic track gauge
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12:39<@Bjarni>I have tried driving on that in real life
12:39<@Bjarni>it's called curves
12:40<@Bjarni>the gauge is a curve is a little wider than the gauge in a strait track
12:40<@Bjarni>this is because certain locomotives (specially steam, but also 3 axle bogies) will make the gauge wider if it isn't already
12:41-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:41<hylje>damn solid bogies
12:41-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:41<@peter1138>Always getting stuck in tight places?
12:42<@Bjarni>locomotives that big don't get stuck
12:42<@Bjarni>they make room for themselves to move on
12:42<Ammler>renamed the assertion save, because network_server won't be the same that long :-)
12:42<@Bjarni>too bad tight switches fails to turn after they passed
12:43<Sacro>zomg a Bjarni
12:43-!-Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
12:43<@Bjarni>whereever I go... there is a Sacro
12:43<Sacro>I've been travelling
12:43<@Bjarni>#openttd and there he is
12:44<@Bjarni>tt-forums and there he is
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>you obviously go to the wrong places :p
12:44<Sacro>I want quite close to denmark
12:44<@Bjarni>but I don't want you quite close to Denmark
12:45<Sacro>i wonder if those hungarians have dispatched my luggage yet
12:45-!-thgergo [] has joined #openttd
12:47<Sacro>3 hours in budapest and they lose it
12:47<@peter1138>Hah, RailConvertCost() is on crack...
12:48<Prof_Frink>I want to close Denmark.
12:48<hylje>Denmark's Closed
12:49<@Bjarni>for Sacros
12:53<@Bjarni>Sacro: for your information: Budapest is nowhere near Denmark
12:54<ln>quite near
12:54<Sacro>Bjarni: i know
12:54<Sacro>my stepsister thought budapest was in vienna
12:54<@Bjarni>and you thought it was near Denmark
12:54*Bjarni makes note not to hire a Sacro as navigator
12:55<ln>Sacro: Bjarni claims he has never hear of a movie called "The Dark Knight".
12:55<@Bjarni>oh it's a movie
12:55<ln>what did you think it was?
12:56<@Bjarni>a title
12:56<ln>of what?
12:56<hylje>a movie
12:56<@Bjarni>of that I have no idea
12:56<@Bjarni>might as well be your shoes
12:56<@Bjarni>or your member
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13:12<@peter1138>RailConvertCost() can return zero, in which case nothing is converted :o
13:12<@Rubidium>serves them right ;)
13:12<hylje>duh, perfectly logical
13:13<@Rubidium>peter1138: though that reminds me of your spec; it misses cost of track
13:13<@peter1138>It does indeed.
13:14<@peter1138>It doesn't!
13:14<@peter1138>Even if the costs are the same, I should be able to convert :o
13:15<@Rubidium>though compatability between rail should determine the cost of conversion
13:15<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r14041 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp settings.cpp settings_func.h): -Feature(tte): make it possible to filter list_patches output like it's done for other list_* console commands
13:15<hylje>moving a rail a few inches ~= building new monorail
13:16<@Rubidium>no compatability: cost of destruction + cost of construction, otherwise difference in the construction price (or something similar)
13:16*Yorick thanks glx
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13:19<@Rubidium>peter1138: thought about how to handle the ground tiles for newroutes? Like ground from MP_CLEAR, the ballast and then the track itself?
13:19<blathijs>What's newroutes?
13:20<hylje>passenger destinations
13:20<Yorick>new track types
13:20<hylje>or not
13:20<@Rubidium>blathijs: new rail and road types implemented in an extendable manner
13:21<hylje>road types!
13:21<Yorick>has one thought about the map array stuff?
13:21<hylje>the what?
13:21<@Rubidium>what map array stuff?
13:22<Yorick>the current map array can hold about 3 road types
13:23<Ammler>Yorick: but it has already 4
13:23<@Rubidium>or quite a bit more road types where only 2 can be on the same tile at the same moment
13:23<blathijs>Hmm, "routes" doesn't sound like the perfect name, tbh. Is it something existing?
13:23<Yorick>Ammler: has it?
13:23<Ammler>a road, sorry :-)
13:23<@Rubidium>blathijs: it's just the name of something similar that someone thought up long ago
13:24<hylje>third rail!
13:24<hylje>(just reading through Peterspec)
13:24<@frosch123>peter1138: just a note: drawing tracks as overlays would support different railtypes for horizontal/vertical track on the same tile (but don't ask about map space...)
13:26<Yorick>frosch123: I don't think there is enouh map space for that
13:26<Ammler>would it also allow double tracks in diagonal direction?
13:26<@Rubidium>Yorick: please stop thinking!
13:26<Yorick>Rubidium: I didn't!
13:27<@Rubidium>then why do you write that you think?
13:27<@peter1138>frosch123, yup, although it's probably possible with magic half-sprites too ;)
13:27<Yexo>Rubidium: just quote him correctly: 1) "I don't think" and 2) "there is enouh map space for that"
13:27<hylje>peter1138: but.. magic..
13:27<Yorick>Rubidium: Yorick> frosch123: I _don't_ think there is enouh map space for that
13:27<@peter1138>Easy, just add a couple of uint32s to the array :p
13:28<@Rubidium>peter1138: there's enough bits for that
13:28<@peter1138>18:19 @Rubidium> peter1138: thought about how to handle the ground tiles for newroutes? Like ground from MP_CLEAR, the ballast and then the track itself?
13:28<@peter1138>Rubidium, indeed, with overlays, that is all possible. The question is whether we can cope with layering multiple sprites on everything...
13:28<@Rubidium>peter1138: just move m3 4-7 to m2
13:29<@Rubidium>peter1138: I'd say after newgrf load create those multiple layer sprites and cache them in memory or write them to a file or so
13:30<@frosch123>wasn't sprite sorting always the bottle neck? I.e. drawing tracks should not be slower than drawn towns
13:30<@Rubidium>frosch123: that's why I want to merge the sprites after the newgrf loading stage and use the merged sprites directly
13:31<@Belugas>mmh... so create one sprite out of all the layers just once
13:31<@Belugas>no need to repeat the same layering each time...
13:31*Belugas wonders : could it already be done for other stuff?
13:32<@Rubidium>Belugas: yes, for the current junction sprites
13:32<@frosch123>ok, that would remove the need to always resolve the action123 chain, but would prevent adding varaction2 variables
13:32<@Rubidium>varaction2 is the root of all evil for performance
13:34<Yorick>seems like notification is broken, but I added FS#2220 :)
13:37<@Rubidium>notification isn't implemented
13:37<+glx>Yorick: I already explained it to you yesterday
13:37<@peter1138>Rubidium... er... I'm not particularly interested in changing the map array...
13:37<@peter1138>What's in m3 4-7?
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13:37<@Rubidium>signal stuff
13:38<dih>hello rortom
13:38<Yorick>glx: I know it's broken/unsupported in this version of flyspray, so I'm fulfilling the role myself now :)
13:38<Yorick>hello rortom
13:38<@Rubidium>and most of the rest of the signal stuff is in m2
13:38<@peter1138>frosch123, i already only follow the action123 chain once.
13:40<rortom>just got the python scripting for RoR working: :D
13:41<+glx>rortom: shortcuts to change trucks?
13:41<Yorick>congratulations :)
13:42<rortom>glx: using boost::python to expose the c++ classes of RoR
13:45<Ammler>can that be a problem for assert?
13:45<dih>rortom, you have accumulated stats yet?
13:46<Yorick>it shouldn't
13:46<Ammler>Yorick: of course, it shouldn.t :-)
13:47<rortom>dih: not more than is currently online
13:48<dih>rortom, can you make accumulated stats?
13:49<dih>i am really really interested in them :-P
13:49<rortom>yes, after im done with RoR 0.36 ;)
13:49<Yorick>dih: excuse me, but could you explain?
13:49<dih>rortom, cools - sounds great :-)
13:50<dih>Yorick: rortom has stats of the servers
13:50<Yorick>RoR servers?
13:50<dih>openttd servers
13:50<Yorick>yes I know
13:50<dih>where are those stats again rortom ?
13:51*dih sighs
13:51<@peter1138>RoR really needs to be open source :o
13:51<dih>thanks Ammler
13:51<dih>rortom, you should really update your version of OpenTTDLib ;-)
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13:52<Ammler>hmm, those site has changed
13:53<dih>Ammler, can the openttdcoop dev server be built from svn again,
13:53<rortom>peter1138: we are working on that :)
13:53<dih>h:d2c8248 as a version sucks
13:54<Ammler>if you make me the patch :-)
13:54<dih>what patch?
13:54<Ammler>or tell me, how I should do it :-)
13:54<Ammler>I just pulled from celestar
13:55<dih>why not make a diff?
13:55<dih>and patch an svn checkout?
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13:56<Noldo>Ammler: change rev.cpp or give revision string as a ./configure argument
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13:56<Ammler>Noldo: I would need a patch to the last svn rev merged, else it doesn't make much sense, does it?
13:57<@Belugas>dih, because those guys like to work this way.
13:57<dih>Belugas: pain only being getting people to join the game if it's hard to come by the patch
13:58<dih>and there is hardly a good point in testing a network game if nobody can join
13:58<@peter1138> ... pom te pom
13:58<Ammler>dih: hg is as easy as svn
13:59<dih>i know hg Ammler
14:01<@peter1138>What's the problem?
14:01<@peter1138>(the price of workers is 1 / 4 + price of copper sold to a recycle center)
14:02<@peter1138>What a silly comment :o
14:02<@peter1138>And the code is silly too.
14:07<@peter1138>calculate the price as 5 / 4 of (cost build el. rail) - (cost build rail)
14:07<@peter1138>but... ARGH
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14:08<@peter1138>Maybe I should just make it fall back to the default if it's 0...
14:13<planetmaker>hm... is here someone around who can supply a svn diff for the current CargoDestinations?
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14:14<planetmaker>or a diff which I could use with svn? <-- peter1138, Celestar ?
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14:19<@peter1138>Just clone the repo... heh
14:19<Yexo>planetmaker: you want a diff for cargodest?
14:19<Ammler>Yexo: or a howto to make one...
14:19<Yexo> <- there it is
14:19<planetmaker>Yexo: yes... most people have svn and not hg - if we want many testers a svn diff is better :)
14:19<rortom>wow, that is a lot :)
14:19<Yexo>to make one: clone the repro, and do 'hg diff -r revision' where revision is the latest trunk revision you can find in the logs
14:20<Yexo>where are you going to test it?
14:20<planetmaker>Ammler? ^
14:20<planetmaker>on our dev server
14:20<Yexo> ?
14:20<planetmaker>how current is that diff?
14:21<Ammler>almost newest, I guess :-)
14:21<Yexo>against 13040, just cloned :)
14:21<Yexo>you can't get a newer one
14:21<Yexo>of course
14:21<@peter1138>Last trunk sync is r14000
14:22<hylje>is development happening on hg with svn getting stuff pushed occassionally?
14:22<Yexo>peter1138: as there were no conflicts, I merged it myself
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14:28<planetmaker>ah. bugger. But it doesn't compile :(
14:28<planetmaker>ah. bugger. But it doesn't compile :(
14:28<planetmaker> <-- do I still need to install the boost library?
14:29<planetmaker>well... I hoped the svn diff could contain what I needed :)
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14:31<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14042 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp table/palettes.h): -Codechange: Rename some structure members to more obvious names. And add a few comments on the _extra_palette_values array.
14:31<planetmaker>hm... is it so far fetched? :S
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14:33<@Belugas>i think it is, at this stage of the project, at least
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14:35<Brianetta>My server keeps desyncing
14:35<@Rubidium>Brianetta: then make it reproducable and file a bugreport
14:36<@Rubidium>I can't really fix "my server keeps desyncing" when that's the only information
14:37<Brianetta>I'm the only client. I'm not doing anything, and it's been desyncing others when they join. I was in for ages without desync; I think the server's in a state where desyncs are just a matter of time.
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14:37<Brianetta>If a core dump will help, I can connect gdb and save one.
14:37<Brianetta>Trouble is, it doesn't desync immediately.
14:38<Brianetta>But, it does desync.
14:38<Brianetta>Ther ewe go.
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14:39<Brianetta>I suspect it's trams. I never used to have trams, and I never used to have these desyncs.
14:39<Brianetta>I do know that the articulated trams have problems.
14:39<@peter1138>As long as they all have problems together... heh
14:39<Brianetta>They can become stuck when you turn them around.
14:39<Brianetta>No, they drift apart...
14:39<@peter1138>Used to be a array bounds problem with road vehicles overtaking a long time ago.
14:40<Brianetta>Does "a long time ago" include 0.6.2?
14:40<@peter1138>Pre-0.4.5 I believe.
14:40<Brianetta>You can seriously screw up a player's trams by funding road reconstruction.
14:40<dih>glx: nice patch (r14041)
14:40<dih>or rather commit
14:40<Brianetta>If they have articulated trams, many of them will never move again.
14:41<Brianetta>Actually, I have two stuck trams in the game. If they're not stuck when I join, that could well be the difference between client and server,
14:41<@Rubidium>could be the cause
14:43<Brianetta>No, they're still stuck
14:43<Brianetta>but playing with them got me this:
14:43<Brianetta>dbg: [net] send failed with error 104
14:43<Brianetta>and a desync
14:44<@Rubidium>104 is connection reset by peer
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14:44<Brianetta>There's definitely trouble with trams. Whether it's also the desync problem I don't know, but they cropped up on an otherwise stable server after trams were added.
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14:51<Brianetta>Rubidium: Would a core file help?
14:52<Fennec>trams are awesome, yet trouble. :(
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15:07<Brianetta>Trams aren't awesome, though
15:07<Brianetta>They're just road vehicles with a more restricted choice of road
15:09<+glx><dih> glx: nice patch (r14041) <-- yes it was annoying to always get an incomplete list
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15:16*peter1138 wonders if the new rail type system should use overlays only...
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15:19<fonso>Is anyone still interested in diagonal leveling?
15:21*Yexo is interested too
15:21<fonso>I'm wondering if any of the versions I made satisfies the devs and if not, what I can do to improve it.
15:22-!-fonso is now known as fonsinchen
15:22<fonsinchen>Even though you might call me impatient
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15:28<Ammler>Brianetta: autoreplace?
15:28<Ammler>oh, sorry
15:29<Ammler>didn't scroll :-)
15:29<@frosch123> <- easy way to verify
15:33<Ammler>trains do now show reserved tracks on non-pbs blocks, is that intended?
15:34<+glx>why should it show unreserved tracks as reserved?
15:35<@peter1138>There was a PBS patch that didn't, but that is unrelated to YAPP.
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15:51<@Belugas>trains can reserve tracks on non-pbs blocks?
15:52<@frosch123>now trains always reserve the tracks they are currently on
15:53<@frosch123>I guess that is related to some train crash bug reports, when someone messed around with signals/tracks while trains are driving inside the block...
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16:09<@Belugas>do they have to?
16:09<Roujin>hi again
16:12<@peter1138>Is it a problem? Not all is reserved, only that with a PBS signal near.
16:12*peter1138 tests overlay-based rails
16:14<@peter1138>Only difference so far is that X crossing look different.
16:14<@peter1138>Oh, and I have no ballast :D
16:16<@peter1138>Bah, y-offset issues :(
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16:24<Ammler>peter1138: current cargo dest does desync a lot...
16:26<Roujin>Ammler: you sure all clients are using the same build?
16:27<Roujin>happened to me that I got the new revision, but not the changes, that can happen oO
16:27<Ammler>we use all the patch from yexo
16:27<Roujin>svn patch?
16:28<Roujin>ah.. then never mind what I said..
16:28<Ammler>but it did also desync with the hg repo
16:29<Roujin>with the hg repo, you mustn't forget to do "hg update" after pulling, or else you'll have the new revision but not the changes
16:29<Ammler>Roujin: you mean the client shows the new rev also if you don't apply them?
16:29<Roujin>you running a test right now on the openttdcoop server?
16:30<Ammler>yep, at
16:31<Roujin>yes, that can happen with hg. when you pull, the revision is updated, but not the actual code. for that you have to do "hg update" then.
16:32<Roujin>I didn't know/forgot to "hg update", and connected to a test game with the newer revision without problems (revision was the same) - but of course desynched pretty fast
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16:34<Brianetta>Rubidium: I reloaded the game on the server, and it's desyncing again. Will the saved game be helpful?
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16:40<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> no compatability: cost of destruction + cost of construction, otherwise difference in the construction price (or something similar) <- there are problems with that interpretation, e.g. 3rd rail to catenary, they are not directly compatible, but they have a common "base" [conventional rail]. maybe grfs could specify an upgrade relation similar to the compatibility relation, and specify costs along this relation. then the
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>conversion tool must figure out what is the "cheapest path" through that relation [there is always a path between two railtypes via the "no rail" type (build cost)]. so people could specify cost from normal rail to 3rd rail, and from normal rail to electrified, and the conversion tool would then add the conversion prices. newgrf people could also specify costs from normal rail to narrow gauge rail, where no regular compatibility exist,
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>but not the full cost of a new rail applies. additionally they could specify conversion from electrified rail to electrified narrow gauge rail, where there would be no need to remove the electrification, regauge the rail, add new electrification.
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>hm... that line was longer than i expected...
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16:46<Eddi|zuHause>costs needn't be symmetric either... it's cheaper to remove catenary than to add it [you can even sell the copper]
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16:49<Brianetta>Selling train tracks gets you money
16:49<Brianetta>Selling tram tracks gets you skint
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>removing tram tracks from a road will almost always mean rebuilding the road ;)
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>here, some roads still have embedded tram tracks even though the tram line was closed 50 years ago
16:53<@Belugas>night all
16:53*Belugas goes resting
16:54<Prof_Frink>E's restin'!
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16:59<@peter1138>I need some method of picking foundations.
16:59<@peter1138>Not foundations...
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17:07<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14044 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: generalize AIEngine::IsBigPlane() to AIEngine::GetPlaneType (Yexo)
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17:20<Sacro>Right, why does OpenTTD take an aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage to connect to online servers?
17:21<bleepy>get faster internets
17:22<Fennec>your networks are slows
17:24<Sacro>fine for everything else
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17:25<Prof_Frink>Sacro: KCOM.COM haet the openttd.
17:26<Sacro>Prof_Frink: KCOM.COM sucks major arse
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17:27<Sacro>"Jenna Bush's Federally Protected Wetlands Now Open for Public Drilling"
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>Honi soit qui mal y pense
17:28<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: que?
17:29<Ammler>Sacro: not your connection is slow, the servers connection might be...
17:29<Sacro>Ammler: seems to be with every server
17:30<Ammler>which rev do you have?
17:30<Ammler>try brians server...
17:30<Ammler>aren't you admin there?
17:32<Sacro>yes, it is Brian's server
17:32<Sacro>and yes I am an admin
17:33<Ammler>and you think that one is slow?
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18:07<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14045 /trunk/src/network/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move the network's limitation to chat messages to a more logical location and give it a more consistent name.
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>missing "... and set it to a more reasonable value" :p
18:09<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14046 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make the size of querystring "widgets" more configurable.
18:09<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: 1000 is a reasonable value, isn't it?
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18:10<Eddi|zuHause>no, studies have shown that people rarely put more than one word on a line, so 10 is really enough ;)
18:11<KurtKraut>Eita... Gmail tá down (erro 502)
18:14<@Rubidium>Yexo: you should consider changing your nick ;)
18:14<@Rubidium>I almost put you on my ignore list
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>to one that does not start with a Y? ;)
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>i occasionally thought the same thing ;)
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18:32<ln>it's also possible to just quit from the away state.
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18:45<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14047 /trunk/ (17 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: move chatmessage handling to the network directory as that's the only case chat messages are used. Furthermore remove any trace of chatmessages when compiling without network support.
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20:01<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14048 /trunk/src/yapf/ (4 files): -Fix (r14019) [FS#2222]: Redo the check for reserved tracks properly this time. (michi_cc)
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22:20<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r14049 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Codechange: rename a variable to a somewhat more descriptive one. And constify it too.
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 12 00:00:23 2008