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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-08-31

---Logopened Sun Aug 31 00:00:27 2008
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04:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14196 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio.h newgrf_config.cpp): -Codechange: make the searching for files with a specific extension extendable.
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04:43<Celestar>hey peter1138
04:46<Celestar>hm .. can one set the "developer" variable from commandline / openttd.cfg?
04:46<@peter1138>don't think so
04:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14197 /trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs):
04:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: rework (original) base graphics determination methods. This yields in the following:
04:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: make configuring the to-be-used base graphics via openttd.cfg and the command line possible.
04:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: allow both the German as well as non-German toyland graphics as "correct" and official graphics.
04:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: allow people to create their own base graphics easily and without requiring code changes.
04:48<Gekz_>whats the difference between german and other toylands?
04:49<@peter1138>A bug fix, I guess.
04:49<Eddi|zuHause>the md5sum, and one "fixed" sprite afaik
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04:51<Celestar>Forked: you around?
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04:53<@peter1138>.obg ? heh
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04:55<Celestar>peter1138: do you have a clean trunk at hand?
04:55<@peter1138>Near enough.
04:55<Celestar>peter1138: can you try something in trunk? I get a problem with cargodest reported by Forked but I can't see it's relation to cargodest.
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04:55<Celestar>peter1138: ah well, let me check out myself :P
04:56<@peter1138>I have several trunk checkouts :p
04:56<@peter1138>What do I need to check?
04:58<roboboy>how often does cargodest get compiled for download?
04:58<Celestar>peter1138: this is the train in a depot: DH_first_1 - wagon - DH_rear_1 - DH_first_2 - DH_rear_2. Sell DH_first_2. save game. load game. buy engine
04:58<Celestar>roboboy: as often as someone does it :P
04:59<Celestar>roboboy: there's no schedule
05:00*roboboy wonders if any work has been done on the bug that caused a crash when a loaded vehicle was replaced either auto or manually
05:00<Celestar>roboboy: not sure. not even sure that is cargodest-related but I'll investigate late next week
05:01<roboboy>hm ok
05:01<@peter1138>Celestar, no crash in trunk
05:01<roboboy> I reported that yesterday/friday
05:02<Celestar>peter1138: interesting
05:03<Alberth>roboboy: You get mail automatically when the ticket is modified
05:05<Celestar>roboboy: cargodest bugs don't go into flyspray ..
05:06<Celestar>it's not official yet (=
05:07<roboboy>so the wiki is better or the forum
05:07<Celestar>wiki is best as it sais on the forum.
05:07<Celestar>forum is ok too
05:07<Celestar>but I might lose track there
05:07<roboboy>exactly what would normally goes in flyspray
05:08<@peter1138>says :p
05:09<roboboy>I should have known but the crash window distracted me and said to put it in flyspray. I should have ignored it
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05:10<Celestar>this is so weird
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05:13<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: what's a DNF?
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>Duke Nukem Forever
05:13<Ammler>(GRF release related)
05:14<Celestar>I'll need help debugging some stuff in cargodest :P
05:17<Celestar>because I'm out of time this week
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>just preallocate time from next week ;)
05:19<roboboy>!seen orudge
05:20<Forked>Celestar: here now..
05:20<Forked>it's the day after, so I'm a bit .. reduced =p
05:24<Celestar>Forked: it seems I have fixed the routing bug that you have mentioned. Can you test it? (I've not fixed the crash bug yet because I don't find the cause at the moment)
05:26<Ammler>Forked: small hint to make bug report a little bit easier... :-) uploading the cfg is useless, as the settings are stored in the save and might differ from the cfg... (changes after start)
05:27<Ammler>hmm, oh, are they for cargodest too?
05:27<Forked>Ammler: oh :)
05:28<Forked>Celestar: I'm sort of depending on a pre-compiled win32 binary right now :\
05:29<Celestar>Forked: no hurry
05:29<Celestar>Ammler: are "they" ?
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05:31<Forked>Ammler: I guess another thing when it comes to bugreporting is do it in the right place. :) (and I thats the wiki for cargodest? talk-section)
05:32*Forked is going back to bed .. it's just too early
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05:41<Ammler>Forked: better in wong place as nowhere ;-)
05:42<Forked>Celestar: btw the crash bug.. There was some refitting in the picture. I'll see if I can reproduce it in nightly later... but now.. Book, chips and bed.
05:42*Forked waves
05:43<Celestar>Forked: I can reproduce it
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05:50<Celestar>extspotter: btw. MUC had 34.8 Mpax in the most recent 12-months statistic.
05:50<Celestar>(no 28. in the world)
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05:50<Celestar>and 437000 operations (No 20 in the world)
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05:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14198 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: [NewGRF] Simplify handling of common vehicle properties.
05:53<extspotter>just annoyed at myself now
05:53<extspotter>I crashed my 2 best trains on brianetta's server into each other
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05:54<extspotter>I was relaying some track into my power station station
05:54<extspotter>and I saw it in the corner of my eye. I was like noooooooooooooooo
05:54<extspotter>never mind!
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05:58<Rexxars>how do the town ratings improve over time? is there a check of some sort every x ticks?
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>town ratings increase every time a vehicle appears at a station
05:59<Eddi|zuHause>or when you plant a tree on a tile that does not have a tree yet
05:59<rortom>hi all
05:59<rortom>someone plays ottd in dualscreen?
05:59<Rexxars>I'm playing with the daylength patch, and the town ratings takes ages to improve.. even with tons of tons of trains and buses arriving
05:59<rortom>or multiple screens?
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06:10<eekee>rortom: I play with multiple screens in Linux, but they're arranged as seperate screens, so programs don't display on both. What's your setup?
06:14<rortom>xinerama on linux working well for ottd
06:15<rortom>windows is working also dualscreen with the newest version and windowed more
06:15<Alberth>Celestar: I have a "this->CargoLeft() != __null" crash with the first transfer (of water) without paxdest enabled (all dests are allowed) very early in the game (2 trains, the first transfer of the game). Is this interesting to report?
06:15<rortom>i wass thinking if it possibble for ottd to detect a dual screen setup
06:16<eekee>ahh I expect so. Lots of linux apps haxe xinerama support
06:17<@Rubidium>rortom: SDL doesn't tell us, so the answer is no
06:17<rortom>thats bad then :(
06:17<rortom>and whats about windows, same problem?
06:18<eekee>SDL is used on both platforms, right?
06:18<@Rubidium>can be used on both
06:18<Ammler>Rubidium: do you have a testgrf for the different graphicsets feature?
06:18<Celestar>Alberth: are you replacing anything?
06:18<@Rubidium>but windows uses GDI by default
06:18<eekee>sounds like time to file a feature request for SDL ^^'
06:18<Ammler>tried with OpenGFX
06:18<@Rubidium>Ammler: no, though I did mix dos and windows original graphics to test it (looks horrible)
06:19<Alberth>Celestar: no, it is only Oct 1950 :)
06:19<Celestar>I don't understand settings
06:19<Celestar>Alberth: do you have a savegame of this and what revision do you use?
06:19<@Rubidium>Ammler: OpenGFX doesn't support it/isn't written for it yet
06:20<@Rubidium>rortom: I don't understand Windows' multimonitor libraries and they don't seem to work correctly either
06:20<@peter1138>Good news everyone!
06:20<FauxFaux>(Hi, Dr. Peter!)
06:20*Ammler still hopes there will be a "static-grf-before-newgrf" sometime :-)
06:21<@Rubidium>rortom: i.e. something that works on some computers doesn't work at all on others
06:21<@Rubidium>Ammler: and then getting desyncs because you've got to many static-grf-before-newgrfs?
06:21<Alberth>Celestar: yes, h:e79bdd2 says the window title (no idea how to question this with hg itself)
06:21<rortom>Rubidium, that sounds not good. and it sounds like windows ;)
06:22<Celestar>Alberth: he, no idea (=
06:23<@Rubidium>Alberth: hg tip shows you the revision
06:24<Celestar>Alberth: heh.. I cannot load this savegame :o
06:24<Celestar>Alberth: did you use the cargodest hg version or did you patch trunk?
06:25<Ammler>Rubidium: already documented somewhere what is needed for OpenGFX?
06:25<rortom>this windows directx sdk direct music workaround is just stupid from microsoft...
06:25<Alberth>ran the hg clone command at the wiki this morning, build binary from that
06:25<@Rubidium>Ammler: see docs/
06:26<Pikka>Ammler: did you work out whatever your issue was with the carriages in NARS?
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: not worse than desyncs because "incompatible" newgrfs detected below a non-static grf
06:26<Pikka>I wasn't really sure what the issue was...
06:27<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that should be solved
06:27<rortom>Rubidium, you used those functions: ?
06:27<Ammler>Pikka: I play mostly with "vehicle never expire" to have possiblitly for eyecandy in later time...
06:27<Celestar>Alberth: ok
06:27<Celestar>check later
06:27<@Rubidium>rortom: some of those yes
06:28<rortom>Rubidium, i will see if i can improve the code
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06:28<Alberth>Celestar: provided link gives warning that it was not tested against viruses, downloading anyway (link above the red notice box with the warning) returns exactly the same file to me
06:28<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: you mean like non-static newgrfs cannot detect static newgrfs?
06:28<@Rubidium>well, it got axed from trunk again because it made multimon support worse
06:29<Ammler>Pikka: I think it is not a bug, it was just a glitch of me
06:29<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: they can detect them, but if they do the static newgrf gets disabled and the non-static newgrf gets told it isn't used
06:29<Ammler>there is no "old" waggon available anymore in later times :-9
06:30<Pikka>oh, yeah.. of course. :) a 21st century coach still looks like a 21st century coach even if you put it behind a steam loco...
06:30<@peter1138>dbg: [grf] [custom/pack/7.2/4_infrastructure/ukroadset/UKRoadsetw.grf:564] LoadNewGRFFile: Unexpected sprite, disabling
06:30<frosch123>revert !
06:31<Ammler>Pikka: but it is strange, it does change the livery to the "how is it called" type...
06:31<Ammler>that alternative energy thing.
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06:32<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: so that'll mean no way to use the dutch catenary with the canadian stations
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>(on a network server, with dutch catenary being static client side)
06:33<@Rubidium>either that or desyncs
06:35<Ammler>Rubidium: I would like to load that GRF before the server newgrfs:
06:36<Forked>meep meep
06:36<@Rubidium>guess that should be implemented in openttd[dw].grf
06:36<@Rubidium>need to ask permission and such for it
06:36<Ammler>Rubidium: can't because it has original graphics
06:37<Ammler>well, modified, but
06:37<Ammler>I am sure, Addi would give you permission.
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06:44<@peter1138>Rubidium, unknown action 0 properties: disable the grf?
06:44<rortom>Rubidium, i think the multi monitor problem is that some functions are only available for windows 98 and later
06:44<Celestar>Alberth: that is indeed word
06:44<@Rubidium>rortom: that shouldn't be the biggest problem
06:45<@Rubidium>peter1138: what action 0 properties don't we implement?
06:45*Forked looks at his network-in-construction and wonders what the hell he was thinking yesterday
06:45<Celestar>Alberth: trying manually
06:45<eekee>Forked: I get that feeling often
06:45<@peter1138>None that I know of. There are some that we don't do anything with, but we they're not unknown.
06:46*Celestar puts onto is "idiotic crap" page :P
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06:46<@Rubidium>rortom: primarily because win9x builds have to be done without unicode support anyway
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06:47<@Rubidium>peter1138: maybe some action0 feature 8?
06:47<@Rubidium>or are even those "implemented"
06:47<@Rubidium>anyhow, it's fine by me, we'll hear some complaints eventually if we don't support something
06:48<@peter1138>I'll check feature 8.
06:48<Celestar>Alberth: I see
06:48<Celestar>Alberth: thanks for the report (=
06:48<@peter1138>That's the idea, instead of silently continuing, possibly wrongly...
06:49<Celestar>when a setting is not in the .cfg, what is is set to?
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06:50<@peter1138>The default setting, in settings.cpp
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06:50*Celestar wonders why that isn't the case then for him
06:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14199 /trunk/ (29 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: split fileio.h into fileio_type.h and fileio_func.h so not everything that includes saveload.h needs to include everything else too.
06:50<Pikka>ammler: those are just the normal coaches for after 2000
06:51<Ammler>Pikka: the first waggon?
06:51<Celestar>aircraft_penalty_factor = 67305985
06:51<Celestar>oh yeah :S
06:52<@Rubidium>Celestar: what's the exact problem?
06:53<Celestar>Rubidium: I've bumped the savegame revision to 104, added this line to settings.cpp:
06:53<Celestar>SDT_CONDVAR(GameSettings, rn.aircraft_penalty_factor, SLE_UINT,104, SL_MAX_VERSION, 0, 0, 1, 1, 10, 0, STR_NULL, RoutingBase_t::ModifyParameter),
06:53<eekee>damn I did it again. change a signal from pre to advanced when a train is approaching it fast and the signal system doesn't have time to react properly. BOOM. (416MHz ARM CPU)
06:53<Celestar>added the "rn" struct to GameSettings. When a start the game and close it, some arbitrary crash is written to aircraft_penalty_factor in the config file
06:54<@Rubidium>please show me the whole diff
06:54<Celestar>Rubidium: k
06:55<Celestar>I'm messing this up somewhere, but I don't see where
06:56<@Rubidium>reading 4 bytes out of a 1 byte variable is going to cause trouble
06:56<@Rubidium>i.e. change the SLE_UINT[32] -> SLE_UINT8
06:56<Pikka>yes Ammler
06:58<Celestar>AW SHIT
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06:59<Celestar>thanks Rubidium (=
07:02<rortom>i dont get the windows header versioning system. i need #if(WINVER >= 0x0500) to get the multimonitor functions
07:02<rortom> says that _WIN32_WINNT=0x0500 should do the job :\
07:06<Ammler>seems not that easy to use the OpenGFX as a replacement...
07:08<Ammler>my obg:
07:09<frosch123>since when does OpenGFXr1.grf contain all sprites?
07:09<Ammler>it doesn't :-)
07:09<frosch123>since when it is a pure grf instead of newgrf?
07:10<frosch123>that is a newgrf
07:11<Gekz_>eekee: lol what
07:11<frosch123>you can put that into "extra = " if you like
07:11<Gekz_>eekee: what device
07:11<Ammler>frosch123: you can add multiple extras?
07:11<eekee>Gekz_: zaurus sl-c3200
07:11<frosch123>not that I know of
07:11<eekee>Gekz_: :PPP
07:12<Ammler>that would "fix" my "static-before" problem :-9
07:12<eekee>Gekz_: I've had it a year & a half, it was state of the art when I got it
07:12<Gekz_>enough said.
07:13<eekee>Gekz_: the eeepc made me sad :(
07:13<Ammler>dbg: [grf] [OpenGFXr1.grf:2542] LoadNewGRFFile: Unexpected sprite, disabling
07:13<eekee>Gekz_: coz I spent so much on the zaurus. The z is still smaller though
07:14<Gekz_>I didnt want miniscule
07:14<Gekz_>and I wanted usable
07:14<Gekz_>an ARM CPU is not usable.
07:15<eekee>oh "usable" == "able to run propriety software"? That wasn't an issue for me.
07:15<Gekz_>the clock speed is too slow
07:15<Gekz_>not the architecture.
07:15<eekee>oh ok
07:15<Gekz_>and ARM sucks
07:16<eekee>runs linux pretty well but I think it might be slower than a 400MHz pentium or k6
07:16<Gekz_>I have a 630MHz Pentium M in my EeePC
07:16<eekee>otoh the X server is horribly buggy
07:16<Gekz_>with 1GB 667MHz DDR2
07:17<Gekz_>what does otoh stand for
07:17<Gekz_>no-one will tell me
07:17<Gekz_>and I cant remember
07:17<eekee>on the other hand
07:17<Gekz_>I'd put gentoo on it
07:17<Gekz_>but that's just me
07:17*Gekz_ hates gentoo btw
07:18<Gekz_>and i'm having a shower, so feel free to rant at me,I'll reply when I return
07:18<eekee>me too
07:18<eekee>I got angstrom on it. wanted to port source mage, but I phail @ gcc & glibc :(
07:18<eekee>lol ok
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07:24<Alberth>Celestar: What does "@param mta == MTA_FINAL_DELIVERY || dest != NULL" mean? (line 266 cargopacket.h), maybe you mean "@pre"?
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07:29<Gekz_>lol i hate source mage
07:29<Gekz_>I'm not homo enough to deal with it
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07:34<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what you just said
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07:37<FauxFaux>Rubidium: win32.cpp still includes fileio.h?
07:38<@Rubidium>always windows doing strange things :(
07:39<FauxFaux>Just changing the #include line to both of the new files ( makes to compile here (vs2008).
07:39<rortom>Rubidium, i got the multi monitor info working for windows 200 and up. would that help?
07:39<FauxFaux>What're you trying to do, rortom? What does openttd need to know about multi-monitor on Windows?
07:40<rortom>FauxFaux, im trying to improve multi monitor support in windows
07:40<rortom>that begins from detecting the displays
07:40<rortom>up to repositioning the screen, etc
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07:40<Eddi|zuHause>rortom: you mean stuff like not splitting the status bar in half?
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07:41<@Rubidium>rortom: I got it working too... *BUT* it failed horribly on most systems
07:41<FauxFaux>What's wrong with the multi monitor support at the moment (ie. none)?
07:41<Forked>weird.. why is it that passengers want to go on a train through another station (A-C-B) rather than directly from A-B .. A-B is even shorter in tiles :\
07:41<FauxFaux>Mmm, status bar, intersting.
07:41<rortom>Rubidium, could you share your code with me so i can see whats the diff?
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it is worth the effort, but i don't have dual monitors ;)
07:42<rortom>Eddi|zuHause, YES :)
07:42<@Rubidium>can't as I trashed it
07:42*FauxFaux only asked 'cos I've done multi-monitor stuff on Windows before, couldn't think what you'd want to use it for, but laying out windows in a smart way would be pro.
07:42<@Rubidium>the major problem is that it will work on some systems, but causes more trouble than good on other systems
07:42<rortom>so you want to look at my code to see if you did it the same way?
07:42<FauxFaux>Unfortunately I don't have dual-displays at the moment. :(
07:43<@Rubidium>I can't be bothered with Windows anymore; I get really really really annoyed by it
07:43<@Rubidium>same way for OSX
07:44<rortom>hehe, i can understand this totally ;)
07:44<@Rubidium>FauxFaux: does solve the issue?
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07:46<rortom>so the way to go is to create a working patch so users could test it?
07:46<FauxFaux>Rubidium: No, you've removed fios.h; referenced FiosItem win32.cpp line 808.
07:47<@Rubidium>FauxFaux: that's why I REALLY hate wrong comments...
07:47<FauxFaux>Mmm. :)
07:48<@Rubidium>so the updated one works as it should?
07:49<hylje>misinformation is worse than no information at all
07:49<FauxFaux>Rubidium: Yep.
07:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14200 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix (r14199): some OSes failed to compile. Furthermore I hate wrong comments!
07:51<FauxFaux>Thanks. :)
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07:58<@peter1138>Gah, stupid cheap spirit level.
07:59<@peter1138>It's 5mm out :(
08:00<Prof_Frink>Over what distance?
08:01<Prof_Frink>5mm over 1km would be pretty good going. 5mm over 30cm less so.
08:02<@peter1138>~ 90cm
08:02<@peter1138>Hmm, actually make that 2.5mm
08:02<@peter1138>I measured it both ways :)
08:09<rortom>so who has multi-monitor running under windows?
08:11<davis->me i guess
08:16<rortom>i will work on a multi monitor patch then
08:16<eekee>Gekz_: I'm getting tired of SM
08:16<FauxFaux>Mmm, the YAPF presignals bug I was going to try and fix appears to have vanished, cool. \o/
08:17<frosch123>also when you do not use yapp?
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08:24-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
08:25<Celestar>hey glx
08:26<Alberth>Celestar: welcome again
08:27<+glx>hi Celestar
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08:28<Alberth>Celestar: Is 'anywhere' destination represented by lack of explicit destionations (ie no DestinationList map)?
08:31<Gekz_>eekee: I'm getting tired of trying to play freeciv on 800x480
08:33<Celestar>Alberth: context? (I've found the reason of the bug)
08:35<Celestar>I should really have tested the cargolist without destinations methinks
08:36<Alberth>For the case of a split of a list of cargo packet, just after line 324 it tries to update the destination map of the CargoList, but it hasn't got one, since I didn't switch on destinations yet
08:36<Celestar>Alberth: destination lists are always present. the problem is, it's a vehicle. Vehicles don't have destination lists (=
08:37<Celestar>I've fixed that one, but I'm getting another problem now
08:40<Alberth>So instead of assert() it should be a condition for the whole else-branch?
08:42<Celestar>Alberth: we should only do it on MTA_CARGO_LOAD not on MTA_OTHER
08:45<TrueBrain>Celestar: I played cargodest a bit the other day :) It gives a nice new type of gameplay in OpenTTD :)
08:45<Celestar>TrueBrain: different, isn't it?
08:45<Celestar>TrueBrain: hit any major problems?
08:46<@peter1138>TrueBrain actually played? :D
08:46<Celestar>peter1138: must be a nice patch then :P
08:46<rortom>Rubidium, what multi monitor modes did your patch support?
08:48<@Rubidium>the dumbest?
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08:49<TrueBrain>peter1138: suprising, not? :p
08:50<rortom>i mean i know horizontal span and dual viewl
08:50<TrueBrain>it took me ages to understand the order GUI, but that is not related to cargodest :p
08:50<Roujin>hi there
08:50<rortom>but for dual view you would need to create two windows
08:50<TrueBrain>Celestar: well, the only 'major' problem was to find the patch option (the naming is _very_ _very_ vague there)
08:50<@peter1138>TrueBrain, it took me a while, but the old one seems so limited now :)
08:50<@peter1138>(Order GUI)
08:51<Celestar>TrueBrain: heh
08:51<Celestar>TrueBrain: maybe I should think of summin better
08:51<Roujin>Celestar: you made some wrong comments via c&p in your last cargodest commit ;)
08:52<Roujin>in settings_type.h
08:54<TrueBrain>Celestar: sounds like a good plan :)
08:54<TrueBrain>(sorry, but it is that I know what text should be there, and noticed something new, else I would never have found it :))
08:54<Alberth>Celestar: My prg now crashes while loading cargo from the station (call at economy.cpp:1668)
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08:59<Celestar>Roujin: I did?
08:59<Celestar>TrueBrain: I'm open for suggestions
08:59<Celestar>Alberth: yeah, I'm on it, I'm on it (=
09:00<TrueBrain>maybe just call it cargodest or something, more people understand that :)
09:00<TrueBrain>btw, you really need to look a while at the station window in order to understand what it means, but I see no other way to make that more clear :) After you understand, it is all good :)
09:01<Alberth>Couldn't you first try finding cargo for the 'next' station, then find additional cargo for the INVALID_STATTION if the former is not enough?
09:02<Roujin>Celestar: yep, copied "penalty factor of an aircraft" for the settings five times
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09:04<Celestar>Roujin: oh shit. fixed
09:04<Celestar>Roujin: not yet pushed. wait please :P
09:06<Roujin>sure, just wanted to inform you ;)
09:07<Roujin>just read the commits of last week in the repository, after being busy for university the last 6 days :/
09:08<Celestar>peter1138: (=
09:11<Celestar>note to self: save-before-compile
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09:12<rortom>is it possible to let openttd running with two windows?
09:12<rortom>since you would need to create multiple windows for a multi screen setup
09:13<yorick>openttd -d?
09:13<rortom>i mean code-wise
09:13<yorick>it does create 2 windows :-P
09:13<yorick>but afaik it isn't possible to let it run in 2 windows without some modification
09:13<FauxFaux>I believe it's significant modification. :)
09:14<Celestar>maybe make the Extra Viewports additional windows
09:14<FauxFaux>I did that at some point in the distant past, no way will I be able to find or apply the patch now.
09:15<FauxFaux>There was something horribly wrong with it, too, can't remember what. ¬_¬
09:16<rortom>so no fullscreen support for dualview :(
09:17<TrueBrain>rortom: which game does support that?
09:17<Celestar>TrueBrain: I don't think _that_ is a valid argument (=
09:17<FauxFaux>TrueBrain: Supcom. :p
09:18<TrueBrain>Celestar: it is more to point out that it isn't a 'normal' request, as most games didn't over come that 'problem'
09:18<+glx>multimonitor on windows is mainly a directx feature
09:18<frosch123>extra viewports would imply that they are scrolled independently from each other, so you can just as well start two clients for the same company
09:18<TrueBrain>I know of one game, Supreme blabla, that does it :) One window becomes the map + tactical overview, the other the game
09:19<Roujin>say, is there any information about the engine pool in the wiki?
09:19<Roujin>I didn't find anything, so I created a stub page when I created this page some days ago:
09:19<rortom>TrueBrain, supreme commander :) lagged as hell ;)
09:20<TrueBrain>details, details .. :)
09:20<Celestar>TrueBrain: yeah I don't think having the additional viewports in separate windows would be a lot of a problem
09:21<TrueBrain>that is, what frosch123 said, pretty useless in my opinion :)
09:21<Roujin>there also seemed to be no information about other new features in trunk/nightlies, like aqueducts and the new order window, so I added a chapter with the nightly template in the respective pages
09:22<TrueBrain>then again, a game on both screens is useless in my opinion :) As I personally have 2 screens so I can do one thing on one screen, and other thing son the other :p
09:22<Roujin>It would be nice if someone knowledgeable expanded the stub about the engine pool a little..
09:23<Celestar>Alberth: Roujin: there are changes to pull (=
09:24<Alberth>Celestar: Should CargoPacket::SameRoute() never hold for 2 cargo-packets in the same CargoList? (except in case of overflow of cargo count, it seems).
09:25<Celestar>I'm off, got work to do a bit
09:27<TrueBrain>on a sunday?
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09:46<@peter1138>Roujin: Engine pool? I know nothing about it.
09:47<davis->clueless peter :o
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10:18<Celestar>TrueBrain: yeah, I have a shitload of work at the moment :S
10:19<Celestar>TrueBrain: will change in a fortnight
10:19<Celestar>TrueBrain: that's why cargodest is a little on the back burner at the moment.
10:19<TrueBrain>good luck :)
10:19<Celestar>TrueBrain: then again, only minor things need fixing
10:20-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@] has quit []
10:28<TrueBrain>There will be a short interuption of the OpenTTD web-related services
10:28<Forked>dogwalk. :) then more playing
10:28-!-TrueBrain [truebrain@] has quit [Quit: Look at me flying!]
10:29<Forked>Hello, my name is Forked and I'm an addict..
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10:44<ecke>is there any stable release witch have sharing infrastucture?
10:46-!-mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
10:47<TrueBrain>All services should be back up and running (as I and DorpsGek are here again :p)
10:47<ecke>peter1138 and any stable mod?
10:48<@peter1138>I don't know.
10:48<Gekz_>TrueBrain: that's a lie
10:48<Gekz_>a dirty rotten lie
10:48<yorick>Gekz: the cake is a lie, too
10:48-!-Gekz_ is now known as Gekz
10:48<TrueBrain>Gekz: are you now asking for a kick, or? :)
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10:49<Gekz>TrueBrain: I love you! I was infact asking to be promoted to your superior.
10:49<TrueBrain>you are crazy
10:49<Gekz>Only at night
10:49<Gekz>on sundays.
10:49<yorick> <-- the train at the top right is heading the wrong way
10:49-!-Milloflex [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:49<Gekz>and per chance, it is said time :D
10:49<TrueBrain>when you wear that dress
10:49<Gekz>the dress is just for decoration
10:49<hylje>it's cute regardless
10:50<Gekz>creepy story with that.
10:50<hylje>ohh the frills
10:50<Gekz>my girlfriend asked me why i DIDNT want to wear her dress
10:50<Gekz>I was so confused.
10:50-!-Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:50-!-[1]Roujin is now known as Roujin
10:50<Gekz>I dont know why
10:51<hylje>not subtle enough
10:55<@peter1138>Hmm, I guess I'll have to build my own 3.5mm switch.
10:55<De_Ghosty>any one any idea how to point pages with webmin?
10:56<@peter1138>Same thing?
10:58<yorick>peter1138: no, only the same url, and the same picture
10:58<Gekz>I pasted the wrong link
10:58<@peter1138>yorick, that's what I meant.
10:59<@peter1138>I didn't look at any of them as I've already seen them, heh...
10:59<TrueBrain>@kick Gekz no youtube links here
10:59<TrueBrain>@kick Gekz no youtube links here
10:59-!-Gekz was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [no youtube links here]
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10:59<yorick>TrueBrain: quote the piece of the topic that says that, please
11:00<SmatZ>yorick: TrueBrain says taht
11:01<TrueBrain>@kban yorick don't be a wise-ass
11:01-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
11:01-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [don't be a wise-ass]
11:01<Gekz>OH PWNED
11:01<Gekz>but that link is awesomne
11:01<Gekz>a revolving door blows up
11:01<Gekz>sandwiches a guy
11:01<Gekz>shatters on him
11:02<Gekz>oh awesome, my girlfriend made muffins
11:02<hylje>what's the caveat
11:10<TrueBrain>haha, yorick wants to know why I banned him .. if he can't figure that out himself, .. I don't know ..
11:11<TrueBrain>anyway, I wish you all a good day :) I am going to enjoy the sun .. 2 days of 25 degrees here, you have to enjoy that :)
11:15<TrueBrain>Gekz: please, do stop that .. this is not that kind of channel
11:16<Gekz>but that was the last one
11:16<Gekz>and i'm sure you'll enjoy it TrueBrain
11:16<Gekz>give that last one a chance
11:16<TrueBrain>not even opening them
11:20<Roujin>i'll also be going outside for a bit
11:20<Roujin>too damn nice weather
11:21<Roujin>see you
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11:23-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
11:23-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by TrueBrain
11:23-!-mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
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11:24<Alberth>Celestar: Started anew with my water service; have a delivery train that sequentially visits two stations with water towers. Only get water for the first station. Is this supposed to happen?
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14201 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp:
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: [NewGRF] Don't continue processing an Action 0 if we didn't read the data for a property -- the data will be wrong for subsequent reads.
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: [NewGRF] *Do* continue processing if the value of a property is invalid, however.
11:28-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:30*glx kicks DorpsGek
11:31<+glx>go back to work stupid bot
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11:31<+glx>TrueBrain: ^^
11:31<@peter1138>That GUI looks odd...
11:32<@peter1138>@seen bjarni
11:32<@DorpsGek>peter1138: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 19 hours, 57 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <Bjarni> "my little Beluga"?
11:34<@peter1138>pikkindw.grf:1161] IndustrytileMapSpriteGroup: Too many industry tiles defined, skipping
11:36-!-dazjorz [] has joined #openttd
11:37<dazjorz>I've got a dedicated server running on a GNU/Linux system
11:37<dazjorz>Is there a way to make it save the game, and then quit, so I can reload the game later?
11:37<hylje>you can save games in the dedicated console (or rcon)
11:39<+glx>save filename
11:39<@peter1138>Hmm, not too many.
11:40<@peter1138>Action 3 on an industry tile that is not defined :o
11:40<dazjorz>I didn't even notice that was a console :D
11:40<dazjorz>aw that's just awesome
11:42-!-Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
11:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14202 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: [NewGRF] Give more meaningful output if a house/industry/industrytile is undefined in action 3, and continue processing remaining IDs.
11:47<@peter1138>pikkindw.grf:1161] IndustrytileMapSpriteGroup: Industry tile 176 undefined, skipping
11:47<Ammler>!rcon patch no_servicing_if_no_breakdowns 1
11:47<Ammler>ah, sorry, mäh
11:49<@peter1138>@seen pikka
11:49<@DorpsGek>peter1138: pikka was last seen in #openttd 4 hours, 52 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <Pikka> yes Ammler
11:49<yorick>glx: something for your kick-script?
11:50<+glx>@kick yorick
11:50-!-yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [glx]
11:50<Ammler>yorick: that was a misstake and not that many used, really sorry...
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11:50<@peter1138>Ammler, is pikkindw.grf in yourp 7.2 pack the latest version?
11:50<+glx>my script should work
11:50<Ammler>peter1138: should
11:50<yorick>not for !rcon?
11:50<+glx>but DorpsGek didn't report the latest commits
11:51<yorick>yes, I know. but he does respond to commands
11:51<@peter1138>Ammler, okay.
11:52<Ammler>I had to, else our pack lost compatiblitly with Brianetta :-)
11:53<@peter1138>Just wondering why it's buggy ;)
11:55<Brianetta>It's buggy?
11:55<Prof_Frink>moon buggy?
11:56<@peter1138>Either it is, or OpenTTD is (shock)
11:57*peter1138 wonders how to solve the Act1/2 loading order problem.
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12:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14203 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf.cpp): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Disable a GRF if it contains an unknown property, or tries to assign an invalid ID.
12:53<@peter1138>Hmm, I guess I should trust gravity more than my spirit level...
12:53<@peter1138>It won't be 2.5mm out :)
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13:07<Eddi|zuHause>does that mean you now completely deactivate PBI?
13:09<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: I was wondering that too, and compiled it, it loads evey GRF from the pack...
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13:11<Ammler>it seems the debug output was bugs of openttd... :-)
13:12<Ammler>when will officially start?
13:13<@Rubidium>Ammler: when the compile farm is finished and working properly
13:13<Ammler>ah, ok, thought that is the case and you just wait for a "date" to announce it...
13:13<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, no.
13:14<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, although I might make it do that after confirming the problem with Pikka.
13:14<TrueBrain>glx: you mean like:
13:14<TrueBrain>@load openttd
13:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
13:14<TrueBrain>@load wt2
13:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
13:14<TrueBrain>@reload XMLRPC
13:14<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
13:15<Ammler>(just asked, because we had a player asked for w64 build)
13:15<+glx>TrueBrain: but it still miss 3 commits ;)
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13:31<TrueBrain>glx: revisions?
13:32<TrueBrain>@load xmlrpc
13:32<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: Xmlrpc is already loaded.
13:32<TrueBrain>@reload xmlrpc
13:32<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: No plugin xmlrpc exists.
13:32<TrueBrain>@reload XMLRPC
13:32<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
13:32<TrueBrain>sigh ..
13:33<TrueBrain>there you go glx
13:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14204 /trunk/src/string_func.h: -Fix (r7475): when determining length of a string with limited size, first check if we are not out of bounds already
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13:45<Eddi|zuHause>hm... is there a setting where i can set "full load (all)" as default, instead of "full load any"?
13:47<yorick>make one ;)
13:48<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yes
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14205 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files): (log message trimmed)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-08-31 19:47:56
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 12 fixed by thetitan (12)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 49 fixed by arnaullv (49)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 4 fixed, 15 changed by Hadez (19)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed, 5 changed by habell (7)
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 2 fixed, 1 changed by belugas (1), glx (2)
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: where? i can't find it
13:48<yorick>stations or vehicles tab
13:49<@Rubidium>it's on the stations tab, but confusingly named (as before)
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>i only see non-stop handling there
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>nothing about full load
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13:50<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: gui.sg_full_load_any via patches
13:52<yorick>'gui.sh_full_load_any' is an unknown patch setting.
13:52<@Rubidium>then you're out of luck
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>list_patches lists it
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>but it doesn't find it when using patch
13:53<TrueBrain>WT2 won't be accessible for the next hour or so, depending on your DNS cache invalidation rate.
13:54<+glx>is it moving?
13:54<TrueBrain>glx: good guess ;)
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>and it's off, but still has the wrong default
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14:24<zooks>anyone else having problems with nightly r14205 for windows? open doesnt start anymore
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14:33<eekee>changing signals to advanced-type on busy lines seems to save cpu
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14:36<Eddi|zuHause>my stale reservation problem is definitely not fixed...
14:40<eekee>Noldo_: seems so. my little pda slows down on mature games, but it's speeding up agin as I convert junctions & track to advanced.
14:41<Noldo_>Celestar: you have experience on profiling openttd?
14:41<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: I've noticed that manually reversing a train doesn't get it moving again
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>eekee: that is so totally unrelated to my problem...
14:42<eekee>oh ok lol
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>eekee: a lost train will not reserve a path, trains without path will not go anywhere (except when forced)
14:42<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: Also had a couple of instances where I've converted a signal just ahead of a train, it's gone through, but the normal signals I haven't yet converted have failed to turn red. Avoidable, with care
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a bug...
14:43<eekee>ah well, better for the train not to go, really
14:49<eekee>I always thought it odd that lost trains ran around trying to find a route. Sometimes it's good, because they find a way, but when they find their way into other parts of the network they can cause a lot of trouble
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14:52<Celestar>Noldo_: yes, why?
14:53<Noldo_>Celestar: I'm wondering how to test if what eekee is saying about advanced signals(pbs?) over normal is true
14:55<Celestar>what did he say?
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>eekee: with YAPF, 98% of the trains that say they are lost REALLY are lost
14:56<Celestar>Noldo_: you on linux?
14:57<Noldo_>Celestar: if needed
14:57<Celestar> Noldo_ ./configure --enable-profiling --enable-debug=1; make run-prof;
14:57<eekee>Celestar: I'm running ottd on a slow-ish pda. mature games run slow, half speed or less. converting to advanced signals seems to be speeding games up
14:58<Celestar>eekee: what system does it run?
14:58<eekee>Eddi|zuHause: I had to put in more waypoints when I switched my most complex system to yapf
14:58<eekee>Celestar: linux
14:58<Celestar>Noldo_: if you want a more detailed analysis: ./configure --enable-debug=1; valgrind --tool=callgrind bin/openttd -g <YOUR_GAME>. Then use callgrind to analyse what is happening.
14:59<Celestar>eekee: then you can profile with gprof as well
14:59<eekee>never used it. ^^; What would I be looking for?
15:00<Celestar>eekee: it lists how much time is spent in each function
15:00<Celestar>relative to the whole program
15:00<Celestar>(also absolute, but that's kinda pointless since it only gives it in 10ms-increments)
15:03<eekee>I need a not-stripped binary for that to work, right?
15:04<Celestar>eekee: you need one with debugging and profiling symbols (-pg for compiler and linker)
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15:04<eekee>ahh ok
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15:12<eekee>configure --help does part of the configuration before printing the help
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15:34<Celestar>meh I've created a total mess :S
15:34<TrueBrain>Celestar: hg revert .
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15:35<Celestar>TrueBrain: nah it WORKS
15:35<Celestar>TrueBrain: but have a look at CargoList::MoveTo
15:35<Prof_Frink>commit it then!
15:35<Celestar>TrueBrain: cargopacket.cpp:221 :S
15:35<TrueBrain>eekee: nice bug :s
15:38<yorick>this is strange, I can't use the left-hand shift bar to fast-scroll in SE direction
15:38<yorick>but I can use the right-hand one, and the left-hand one for every other direction
15:40<TrueBrain>computer melt-down? :)
15:42<TrueBrain>selective user response? (is a new feature in modern computers)
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15:44<TrueBrain>Celestar: all I see there are spaces where tabs should have been
15:44<TrueBrain>(like 367 and on)
15:44<TrueBrain>(as in: till end of file)
15:45<TrueBrain>in fact, it is this viewer which replaces tabs with spaces ..
15:46<Noldo_>TrueBrain: :D
15:46<TrueBrain>in a really annoying way in fact
15:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14206 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle os/win32/installer/install.nsi): -Fix (r14197): why don't people just compile a trunk checkout and do we have to think about adding everything to those pesky precompiled binaries?
15:46<TrueBrain>(it depends on the line number how many spaces the tab becomes
15:46<TrueBrain>what ever .. new viewer ..
15:46<Celestar>TrueBrain: I find the code is unclean
15:46<TrueBrain>(I love open source :) If one project fails, pick the next one :p)
15:46<TrueBrain>Celestar: just a bit deep :p
15:47<Celestar>a bit :P
15:47<Celestar>code duplication
15:47<TrueBrain>"STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_UNEXPECTED_SPRITE :Onverwachte tekening " <- LOL @ translation
15:47<TrueBrain>"tekening" .. that translates back to 'drawing', as in what a child does
15:47<Celestar>"unexpected soda" :P
15:47<TrueBrain>Unexpected Drawing .. gives me a whole other idea :)
15:48<+glx>I translated sprite to sprite ;)
15:48<TrueBrain>glx: that is in most languages pretty safe I guess
15:48<TrueBrain>"afbeelding" would have been a valid dutch word too
15:48<TrueBrain>but "tekening" ... :)
15:48<TrueBrain>(it isn't wrong, just reads funny :p)
15:49<TrueBrain>well, I should be happy Dutch is pretty much completely translated :)
15:49<Milloflex>i got a train that is hunting its own tail
15:49<+glx>Milloflex: not a bug
15:49<Milloflex>heh, ok
15:49<TrueBrain>Milloflex: and can it capture it?
15:49<+glx>but silly layout
15:50<TrueBrain>can you also learn it to lay down on his back? :)
15:50<Celestar>peter1138: you got any bright idea how to clarify CargoList::MoveTo ?
15:50<Milloflex>i'll try my best :p
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15:51<Celestar>and stand on his hind wheels :P
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15:54<TrueBrain>Celestar: don't be silly, that requires new graphics!
15:54<Celestar>TrueBrain: :P
15:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14207 /trunk/src/fileio_func.h: -Fix [FS#2262] (r14191): warning about non-virtual destructor in class with virtual functions.
15:57<Celestar>hm ..
15:57<Celestar>I wonder about the destructor, copy constructor, assignment operator rule ..
15:58<Noldo_>what rule? that you have to have those?
15:59-!-Noldo_ is now known as Noldo
15:59<Celestar>There's the rule that says basically: if you class needs one of {copy constructor, destructor, assignment operator}, it needs all three
16:00<Noldo>I do get the copy and assignment bacause they are somewhat the same thing
16:00<Brianetta>They may just call the parent method, though
16:00<Noldo>destructor I don't get
16:01<Brianetta>Noldo: Think of it as good practise
16:02<@Rubidium>but that'd mean we need copy and assignment operators for all vehicle classes, which is pointless as we never copy them or assign them to another variable
16:02<@Rubidium>which adds quite a bit of complexity in unused! code
16:03<Noldo>those aren't that nice as classed go anyway
16:03<Brianetta>Rubidium: How does cloning work?
16:04<Celestar>Rubidium: yes, that's why I want to understand the rationale behind that rule
16:04<@Rubidium>Brianetta: cloning does *only* copy the vehicle type (and refit settings), nothing more
16:05<@Rubidium>i.e. cloning doesn't copy the age nor the value of the to-be-cloned vehicle
16:05<Brianetta>Ah, so a complete copy would also place it heading towards a station and full of cargo, or similar?
16:05<Noldo>Brianetta: and position on the map maybe?
16:06<Brianetta>Noldo: I *suspect* that's in the map array
16:06<Celestar>peter1138: what does that do?
16:07<@peter1138>It prevents a crash :p
16:07<@peter1138>If there are no .obg files.
16:07<@Rubidium>peter1138: looks fine to me
16:07<@Rubidium>Brianetta: vehicle locations are not on the map (only YAPP reservations)
16:07<TrueBrain>Rubidium: that is why in general you then make those functions with 'assert(false)' in them, to make sure they are never used as such
16:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14208 /trunk/src/gfxinit.cpp: -Fix (r14197): Crash if no .obg files are found.
16:10<Noldo> v = new (v) Train();<-- this is quite interesting to me
16:10<Ammler>Rubidium: I asked Addi for permission of his GRF, he would give that to you, but I am not sure, if you will add those modified original GRFs to openttdw.grf
16:10<Brianetta>The presignals are modified originals, aren't they?
16:11<Celestar>Noldo: why?
16:11<Ammler>original sprites...
16:11<@peter1138>Brianetta, yes.
16:12<@peter1138>Also there's a bug in the PBS semaphore signals.
16:13<Noldo>Celestar: it was the first time I had seen placement new get any real use
16:14<Celestar>Noldo: it's rare, yes.
16:15<Noldo>are all the vehicles in openttd stored in a pool
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>the semaphore signals are not original
16:17<Celestar>Noldo: yes
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>v = new (v) Train(); <- what does this line do?
16:19<Noldo>Eddi|zuHause: it initialized allocated vehicle as a train
16:19<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: the same as v = new Train(), excepts that the new object sits at v
16:20<Noldo>I asume that in most use cases it is known at the time of allocation that we need a train
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>so it overwrites the existing v?
16:20<Noldo>Eddi|zuHause: v is pointer
16:20<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: it overwrites whatever is at the place where v points to
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>and if v is NULL?
16:20<@Rubidium>it goes BOOM
16:21<Noldo>so it could be done without the placement by moving the allocation into the new operator
16:21<Celestar>Noldo: yes
16:21<@Rubidium>it's so we can keep our vehicle pools and such
16:21<Celestar>Noldo: or by converting the vehicle pool into an std::vectors (=
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>but that means the locations and sizes of all v must be known first, to make sure one such new (v) won't overwrite existing stuff from another v?
16:22<Celestar>Rubidium: the question is: what advantage do we have keeping the pool (=
16:22<Noldo>Celestar: that would need all kinds of operators
16:23<Noldo>Eddi|zuHause: v is of the type Vehicle*
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>Noldo: yes, and Train is bigger than Vehicle, because it has more members
16:23<Noldo>Eddi|zuHause: I have a feeling vehicle is padded
16:23<@Rubidium>Celestar: does a vector allow *quick* adding/removing *very* often?
16:24<Celestar>Rubidium: where do we add/remove vehicles *very* often? (=
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>vector allows quick access and quick adding at end, i think
16:24<@Rubidium>there are some tricks in the pool to keep the cargopackets quickly creatable. Removing those makes OpenTTD horribly slow
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>adding/removing from the middle is expensive
16:24<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: you can still zero it out
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16:25<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, and run some kind of pack-function every blue moon
16:25<@peter1138>The pools are never packed.
16:25<@peter1138>That would change IDs, and that would be bad.
16:26<Noldo>Rubidium: would it be worth my time to replace the placement new:s with basic new:s ?
16:26<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: we don't need to pack
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16:26<@peter1138>Noldo, why would you want to do that?
16:26<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: during a game, the number of * rarely decreases considerably :)
16:27<Noldo>peter1138: I feel it's neater
16:27<@peter1138>But it wouldn't work.
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>but it's kind of a memory leak
16:28<Noldo>peter1138: I half expected it not to, but the next logical question is "why?"
16:28<@Rubidium>Noldo: FOR_ALL_*
16:28<@peter1138>Because v is where the vehicle is meant to be.
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>and if you don't pack, you need to keep track of unused IDs for possible reuse
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16:29<@Rubidium>have any of you actually a good idea how the pool code works?
16:29<@peter1138>Oh damn, why didn't we think of that? :)
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: probably not ;)
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16:30<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: yes, you thought of that, but it would need to be replicated if one wants to switch from pools to std::whatever
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16:30<@peter1138>@seen Brianetta
16:30<@DorpsGek>peter1138: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 19 minutes and 40 seconds ago: <Brianetta> The presignals are modified originals, aren't they?
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>diminishing the use of said change
16:31<@peter1138>Brianetta, apparently there was a desync, but I didn't see it. Nor did they feel the need to report :o
16:31<Noldo>the placement new does give the option to initialize vehicles that aren't in the pool though
16:31<Brianetta>So the desync might be station relatede
16:31<Brianetta>Could be those waypoints
16:32<@peter1138>Do you have logs? It might just be a disconnect...
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>i expect the pool to be like a big continguous array-kind-of-structure, so all the v point to previously known, properly aligned, array entries
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>this alignment must be to the biggest possible pool entry
16:33<@peter1138>All pool items in a pool are the same size.
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>which is a solution to the previous problem ;)
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16:35<Eddi|zuHause>but that kind of works against polymorphy
16:36<@peter1138>And that is entirely why in-place new is used there
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>how does std::vector handle polymorphy?
16:37<@peter1138>Brianetta, good news. I just ended up with mis-named waypoints
16:38<Noldo>Eddi|zuHause: not well
16:38<@peter1138>Either the same way, or you can use a standard new.
16:38<@peter1138>In which case, welcome to memory fragmentation.
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i see that
16:39<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: it's call polymorphism and Noldo: it works very well for cargodest...
16:39<Noldo>vector slices the objects if you try to store derived class in a vector that stores the base class
16:39<Celestar>Noldo: cuz the whole routing system is based on it
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: how should i know... it's so bad when the teaching staff is so germanophil that they have to translate each and every name :)
16:40<@peter1138>Cargodest only has a maximum of 32 items...
16:40<@peter1138>Sort of :)
16:40<Celestar>peter1138: making the array of pointers bigger doesn't change functionalizy (=
16:41<Noldo>Celestar: really? you are storing derived classes in a vector<baseclass> ?
16:42<Celestar>Noldo: no vector<BaseClass *>
16:42-!-Addi [] has joined #openttd
16:42<Celestar>storing derived classes in a vector of baseclasses isn't polymophism, it's crap :P
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>it's also a problem in my diploma thesis, because i need to use words like "compiler frontend", and i'm told stuff like: "better use a (LaTeX) macro for that, in case the professor comes up with a german word for that" :p
16:43<Noldo>Celestar: my thoughts exactly ;)
16:43<Celestar>any STL container assumes the size of the elements to be invariant
16:44<Noldo>are all vehicle classed padded to the same size?
16:44<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: you good a latex?
16:44*SmatZ is looking forward for replacing all those STL classes...
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't say that...
16:44<SmatZ>yeah, NIH-syndrome, but also compile time and binary size improvemets
16:45<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: good enough to tell me how to write a symbol like "Re" straight?
16:45<Celestar>straight as in upright, non-italic..
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>in math mode?
16:45<Forked>Celestar: thanks again btw, keep up the good work (goes for all of you) :D
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>tried with \text{Re}?
16:46<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: not yet (=
16:46<Celestar>undeffed control seq :P
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>then that was not it :p
16:47<Celestar> \normalfont doesn't help either
16:47<Celestar>because, I guess, normal font is italics in equation environment :P
16:48<SmatZ>Noldo, yes
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16:50<Eddi|zuHause>my "workaround" appears to be to end math mode before such words :p
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>as in $ formula $ word $ continue formula $
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>i know there was a way
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't remember it
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>could try \mathrm{blah}?
16:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14209 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Feature(tte): doubleclick to join selected server/company
16:54<SmatZ>sorry, I wish I knew tex, but I don't...
16:55<Sacro>eugh tex
16:55<Sacro>latex is where it's at
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16:58<Eddi|zuHause>file:///opt/kde3/share/doc/HTML/en/kile/latexhelp.html#IDX393 <- do you have that file?
16:59-!-Celestar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>yeah... great...
17:00*Prof_Frink lyx Sacro
17:02<Brianetta>Rubidium: peter1138 reports that in two saved games, the same waypoint had different IDs
17:03<@Rubidium>so building on one failed whereas it didn't on the other
17:03<@Rubidium>did you use GRFs that could replace waypoint graphics?
17:04<Brianetta>I enabled all the stations at once
17:04<Brianetta>I'll be needing to narrow them down
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17:05<@Rubidium>was the desyncee the last to join?
17:05<@peter1138>I've not actually desynced.
17:05<@peter1138>But it was me fiddling with waypoints
17:06<SmatZ>lazy reply: don't fiddle with them :-P
17:06<@peter1138>Only newstatw has waypoint graphics in this game.
17:06<Brianetta>That's MB's
17:06<@peter1138>No waypoint building failed at all
17:07<Brianetta>It's one of the longest serving newgrfs on the server
17:07<SmatZ>was the ID different, but waypoint number the same?
17:07<Ammler>canada stations has also
17:08<SmatZ>like, "Sentingbury waypoint #13"
17:08<Ammler>hmm, but as stations...
17:08<@peter1138>I don't remember the waypoint number :(
17:09<ccfreak2k>Has Tiberius's OpenGL patch been put into SVN?
17:09-!-Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:09<SmatZ>ccfreak2k: mp
17:13<ccfreak2k>How about YAPP?
17:14<@peter1138>And I can't reproduce this :o
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17:15<@Rubidium>peter1138: I suspect it has something to do with introduction dates of waypoints (can that?)
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17:25*eekee ponders arbitrary track types, but doesn't ponder much since he knows nothing of the internals of ttd
17:26<Prof_Frink>eekee! NewPeter1138!
17:26<eekee>hehe what? ^^
17:27<eekee>peter1138: looks good ^_^
17:28<eekee>peter1138: will it be possible to build any track types over road, like RL monorails or raised light rail? Or would that be more of an adaptation to the tram system instead?
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17:29<@Rubidium>one small change and they expect the world to change...
17:29<eekee>It's called wishful thinking, Rubidium :)
17:30<eekee>I was reading up on monorails earlier & figuring that one of the main advantages of a monorail is it's small footprint, which is not true of ttd monorail of course
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14210 /trunk/src/waypoint.cpp: -Codechange: remove a useless check when creating new waypoint
17:32<eekee>anyway, arbitrary rail types would be cool without that
17:35*davis- gn
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17:35<Brianetta>Brianetta's Standard Server
17:35<Brianetta>...where the standard is low
17:35<@peter1138>Mmm, yes...
17:35<Brianetta>Come spectate for some serious comedy
17:36<@peter1138>Surely I'm winning, but that's no real consolation.
17:36<@peter1138>Hmm, well
17:36<Brianetta>Watch the green guys, playing coop, shout at each other and jam their trains
17:36<@peter1138>Only winning with money :)
17:37<@peter1138>I suppose that's what I get for making my fortunes on a stupidly long route.
17:39<Brianetta>[22:38] <sarah_pilot> Brianetta: thinglie: Eight trains jammed and counting
17:39<Brianetta>[22:38] <sarah_pilot> thinglie: Where?
17:39<Brianetta>[22:38] <sarah_pilot> Brianetta: I told you already
17:39<Brianetta>[22:38] <sarah_pilot> Brianetta: Flardhead Parkway
17:39<Brianetta>[22:38] <sarah_pilot> thinglie: Oh shit
17:39<Brianetta>It's priceless
17:40<eekee>hmm advanced sigs can be hard work when you want ot get a train to depot or are mucking about with the track. wont' go here, won't go there
17:41<eekee>have to stop everything & then play, which is the right way I suppose ^^;
17:42<eekee>oh but trains won't reverse if they come to the wrong side of a one-way advanced. that needs watching
17:42<Brianetta>They won't?
17:43<Brianetta>I seem to remember them bouncing right around
17:43<SmatZ>they will
17:43<@Rubidium>eekee hasn't watched the train long enough...
17:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14211 /trunk/bin/data/ (5 files): -Fix: glitches (alignment issues/inconsistent vehicle graphics) in original graphics (Addi)
17:44<eekee>maybe it's because I changed wait_for_pbs_path to 255 then. I thought I had to do that to prevent something... *scratches head*
17:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14212 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (fix_graphics.nfo fix_graphics.pcx openttd.nfo): [OTTD GRF] -Add: some sprites to fix a few graphical issues of the original graphics (Addi)
17:45<eekee>oh there goes the reversal. I put it down to 30 & it reversed
17:46<SmatZ>+// Different grahpics for same wood truck
17:46<SmatZ>typo :-P
17:46*SmatZ commits "grahpics" is not a word
17:47<@peter1138>"With the steady development of the newGRF ports branch"
17:47<@peter1138>Er, what?
17:48<+glx>I though this branch was half dead
17:48<SmatZ>> half imo :)
17:48<@peter1138>No proper change for 2 months.
17:48*Rubidium adds -Dgrahpics=graphics to SmatZ/default_cflags
17:49<SmatZ>better not :-D
17:49<Brianetta>I just refilled the biscuit barrel. The lid wouldn't go on, so I'm literally *forced* to scoff five chocolate coated Hob Nobs in order to rectify the problem.
17:50<Prof_Frink>Brianetta: Oh dear.
17:50<Brianetta>I have mouth ulcers
17:51<Prof_Frink>Started packs of biscuits are highly unstable.
17:51<Brianetta>They're protesting
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18:02<eekee>is it a bug or a feature that trains won't enter a station (via one-way advanced) if the station has an exit from it's other end that leads only into a one-way advanced signal?
18:03<eekee>if that's not clear:
18:04<+glx>enable reservation display first
18:04<eekee>it's on in that screenshot
18:05<SmatZ>YAPP can't reserve tile at unsafe position
18:05<SmatZ>and behind oneway signal, it is an unsafe position
18:05<SmatZ>I think
18:05<eekee>why would it be unsafe?
18:06<SmatZ>it has something to do with not connecting track pieces belonging to different trains
18:06<SmatZ>or so, michi_cc may say I am totally wrong
18:06<Brianetta>eekee: Feature.
18:07<Brianetta>They won't reserve a route to that signal
18:07<Brianetta>and reservations don't stop at stations
18:07<SmatZ>there are no bugs, only features :)
18:07<Brianetta>which is a shame
18:07<Brianetta>Exit signals from platforms are desirable in that case
18:08<Brianetta>Stations are safe waiting positions, but routes aren't reserved to stations, but through them
18:09<Brianetta>This might be considered a bug
18:09<Brianetta>And I'd be tempted to raise it
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18:09<eekee>actually that feature of reserving a route through the station was what was mucking me about when I was complaining a few minutes ago
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18:11<eekee>just below center of the screenshot is an odd station with low-speed trains & tight turns. It works, normally, but to get a train to go to the depot manually you have to do it before it enters the station, then to exit the depot after that you have to click the override signal button
18:11<ccfreak2k>What's the typical way to apply a patch again?
18:13<@peter1138>Using the patch command.
18:13<@peter1138>Good night.
18:14<@Rubidium>ccfreak2k: patch -p*magic number* < *file*
18:16<eekee>now those low-speed trains of mine can't find the depot, because of the reserved path beyond the station
18:16<SpComb>there's some kind of sillyness in the cargodest thing... everyone wants to go to PLinninghall
18:17<SpComb>although, I guess a fair few of those are transferring tehre
18:21<eekee>hmm I guess the train would have to reserve the whole exit block to achieve what I want, which would somewhat defeat the point of using advanced signals anyway
18:23*eekee moves the station back & puts a signal at station exit
18:25<Brianetta>Comedy train crash.
18:25<ccfreak2k>What happened to src/fileio.h?
18:26<TrueBrain>it went out for a walk, but it caught a cold ... so it decided to get 2 identifies, to avoid that issue in the future
18:26<TrueBrain>(Yeah, it is late)
18:26<ccfreak2k>Looks like I'll have to nag Tiberius to update his patch or something. :|
18:26<eekee>Brianetta: what's your server name? mind if I join?
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18:27<eekee>o i got it
18:27<Brianetta>[23:27] <sarah_pilot> thinglie: now we have an 0-4-0 saddle tank holding up proceedings on the highspeed line
18:27<Brianetta>The comedy never stops
18:28<eekee>I love the 040s
18:28<Brianetta>Another desync
18:29<Brianetta>Another new waypoint
18:31<Ammler>ccfreak2k: which patch?
18:31<eekee>woops, ran make -j6 on my single-core
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18:32<TrueBrain>eekee: well, it just goes a bit slower ;)
18:32<eekee>yeah :)
18:33<eekee>hmm much cpu idleness even with make -j2. Silly Sempron
18:33<TrueBrain>eekee: check your IO load ;)
18:34<eekee>TrueBrain: how do I do that?
18:34<eekee>heh :J
18:34<TrueBrain>watch the pretty light on your computer
18:34<eekee>(It's not disk load)
18:34<eekee>well the pretty light isn't being pretty
18:34<TrueBrain>too bad :)
18:35<eekee>(aka it's not blinking very often :D )
18:37<@Rubidium>the pretty light of my laptop is blinking quicker ever second, even when I'm not doing a thing
18:38<eekee>omg spyware! :)
18:40<Sacro>no i'm not
18:41<@Rubidium>heh... it stopped blinking though it stopped being very mobile :(
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18:42<TrueBrain>welcome back Milloflex
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18:45<eQualizer>Now this just sucks. I can't get any profit out of livestuck using trucks.
18:46<eQualizer>No matter how far or close the food processing plant is, I just do negative profit with the trucks.
18:46<eekee>which rv grf?
18:47<eQualizer>Just the basic graphichs, sub-arctic climate.
18:48<eekee>I feel lucky if I turn a profit with any rvs from the basic set :)
18:48<Brianetta>eQualizer: Are you waiting for a full load?
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18:48<ccfreak2k>Ammler, opengl patch.
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18:48<eQualizer>Brianetta: Yes, but the trucks get full instantly.
18:49<eQualizer>There's more to transfer than there's trucks.
18:49<ccfreak2k>I made the guess that fileio_func.h gets patched in place of fileio.h.
18:49<ccfreak2k>I can't compile it, though.
18:49<Brianetta>eQualizer: Can you find a route where you trucks can carry a load in both directions?
18:50<Brianetta>Farm near food plant, twice?
18:50<eQualizer>No. :(
18:50<eekee>I don't think I've ever seen that. not that I've ever been looking out for it really
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18:51<eekee>I just use GRVTS, or lately eGRVTS. It's rather too easy, but at least it's something for use where trains won't do
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19:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14213 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (fix_graphics.nfo fix_graphics.pcx): [OTTD GRF] -Add: fix for the height problem of sprite #142.
19:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14214 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move another TTD graphics bug into the GRF; height problem of sprite #142.
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 01 00:00:01 2008