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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-13

---Logopened Sat Sep 13 00:00:34 2008
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03:13<Wolf01>I found a strange thing with your industries, a coal mine had 275% of estimated transported, and the production raised and lowered more times, from 135 to 128 to 135 again
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03:15<Pikka>that kind of fluctuation can happen, industries don't always have the same number of production cycles per month
03:15<Pikka>it's not actually changing production, it's just having one more or less cycle
03:16<Pikka>in the calendar month
03:18<Wolf01>oh, ok
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04:42*peter1138 hmms at r14293
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05:17<FauxFaux>So, multi-monitor support, then. ¬_¬
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05:25<@peter1138>SDL does not support multiple windows which limits our options somewhat.
05:25<Gekz>that's fail.
05:25<Gekz>is it planned?
05:25<SpComb>write your own graphics library \o/
05:26<FauxFaux>I was more thinking about the default layout being aware of discontinuities, /me is having a look at implementing it, will probably get bored before finishing (not that you lot accept patches anyway ;)).
05:26<FauxFaux>Isn't it something like single window per thread, peter1138?
05:27<@peter1138>SpComb, go on then :)
05:27<@peter1138>Is what something like a single window per thread?
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05:27<FauxFaux>SDL's limitation.
05:27<@peter1138>I don't think so.
05:28*FauxFaux isn't a fan, either way.
05:29<FauxFaux>Oh, apparently it's new in SDL1.3 (ie. unreleased).
05:29<SpComb>in what way does is support it? Fullscreen on monitors with different resolutions?
05:30<@peter1138>If someone fancies writing multiple window support for OS X or Windows, then go ahead :)
05:30<hylje>probably by having multiple windows
05:30<hylje>which may or may not be fullscreen
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06:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14306 /trunk/src/ (7 files):
06:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: unify the code to draw the vehicle list.
06:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2292]: inconsistency between drawn vehicle lists in the vehicle list and group windows.
06:09<Rexxars>I had a weird dream tonight
06:10<Rexxars>I was on this IRC channel, and CIA reported: OpenTTD: -Feature: Signals in tunnels/bridges implemented.
06:10<Rexxars>I never wanted to wake up :/
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>if you'd know this channel, a commitmessage for this kind of feature would never ever look like this :p
06:11<Rexxars>it was a dream...
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, look at the tram commit :p
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>it's even better than the autoslope commit :p
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06:12<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: Yeh, no doubt it would be something like 'added map bits to worm holes'
06:13<Ammler>I would miss the doubling of tunnels/bridges
06:13<Rexxars>I wouldnt ;)
06:13<Ammler>because you can't signal them, we double/trible them
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>trouble with tribbles?
06:14<Rexxars>its the bottleneck of my rail systems, and it looks weird/ugly with three bridges/tunnels, hehe
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06:16<Alberth>Ammler: Ah, I see. It is kind of a recurring theme it seems. People want the game to be harder, but at the same time have no limits.... :P
06:16<Ammler>I would much more prefer custom bridge heads or extended tunnels
06:17<@peter1138>What's an extended tunnel?
06:17<Rexxars>thats what I was wondering
06:17<@Rubidium>peter1138: longer tunnels
06:18<Ammler>peter1138: :-), if I don't know the right name, not important :-P
06:18<@Rubidium>which is a complex way of saying he wants bigger maps
06:18<SpComb>tunnels in four dimensions
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>twelve, at least
06:18<Ammler>but better then signals in them...
06:19<Ammler>or level crossing and curves for tunnels would also be nice
06:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14307 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Fix: when deleting a station, remove news items regarding it
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06:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14308 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2268]: pay extra when tram/road bits need to be build for a roadstop.
06:49<@Rubidium>it's valid en_RB
06:51<ccfreak2k>Reat Britian?
06:52*Rubidium sends ccfreak2k of to a chemistry class
06:53<@Rubidium>although for the sake of correctness I should've written en_Rb
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06:57<Eddi|zuHause>maybe he wants to say that stuff like this happens when you are under influence of certain chemistry :p
06:58<Gekz>Rubidium is for men without penii.
07:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14309 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2244]: aircraft frozen above oil rig when the next order is invalid.
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07:03<TrueBrain>lobster: sadly enough, I seem to be right .. I haven't seen that guy posting any binaries yet :s
07:08<welshdragon>just got an error on 0.6.2: waveOutWrite failed
07:09<@Rubidium>peter1138: read back far enough in your backlog and you'll know what it's about
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07:09<Eddi|zuHause>it's the supposedly "interesting" discussion
07:09<@peter1138>^ How did I ever live without it?
07:10<Eddi|zuHause> <- you see a house and a sun on this picture, right?
07:11<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: you don't?
07:11<FauxFaux>Nope. ¬_¬
07:12<@Rubidium>welshdragon: using Vista?
07:12<welshdragon>Rubidium, yep
07:12<FauxFaux>I've made the auto window positioner prefer positions that don't cross screen borders on Windows, it needs the upper left position of each screen in openttd-window coords and whether a window-coord+dimension window is on screen. Anyone have enough experience with another library / platform to say if vector<Rect> or two methods in VideoDriver are better?
07:15<@Rubidium>welshdragon: still can't help you though ;)
07:16<@Rubidium>but then again, the error reporting of the function giving that error is pretty non-existent
07:16<welshdragon>Rubidium, it's never happened before
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07:28*FauxFaux wonders where to put the status bar.. primary monitor, left most monitor, biggest monitor.. all of the above unless the taskbar is in the way..
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08:02<yorick>why don't we use c++ strings?
08:02<yorick>some more
08:02<ln>yorick: because the original game didn't use c++ strings.
08:02<yorick>how is that an excuse
08:03<yorick>the original game didn't use YAPF either
08:03<yorick>and the things are far more convenient
08:03<ln>yorick: that is *the* excuse
08:05<TrueBrain>yorick: ah, you want to cnovert all string instance to C++ strings I gather? Good luck ;) After that you can benchmark against current code, see which one performance better :)
08:05<yorick>tb: where did you gather?
08:05<TrueBrain>the fact you suggest doing it :)
08:05<TrueBrain>you don't? no? oh ... :(
08:09<dih>yorick: if you want to do something productive, go outside and play
08:10<yorick>that's noway productive
08:10<TrueBrain>well, he can better do that conversion :)
08:10<dih>it is for everyone in here :-D
08:13<TrueBrain>dih: be nice to the kid :)
08:14*dih hugs yorick
08:15*yorick hugs TB and declares grouphug!
08:15<dih>dont overdo it !
08:16<TrueBrain>besides, it sounds gay
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08:19<SmatZ>^^^ that is yorick
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08:27<@peter1138>Rubidium, is the NewGRF settings bit in the network lobby supposed to say DOS?
08:32<@Rubidium>guess not
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08:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14310 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't show palette information in the newgrf lists of the network lobby.
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08:42<Eddi|zuHause>ok... so much for today's puzzle
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08:43<Eddi|zuHause>cleaned out my keyboard, and on putting it together, i got like 6 keys wrong...
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08:45<TrueBrain>I never can get PrtScr, ScrollLock and Pause correct
08:45<TrueBrain>even more as I never ever used them :p
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08:46<Eddi|zuHause>pause was a very useful key under dos
08:46<TrueBrain>_was_,y es
08:47<TrueBrain>never used this keyboard under DOS :)
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>and a paint program i know used the scroll key back then
08:47<TrueBrain>(did use it under Windows 98 though)
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>and print screen makes a screenshot nowadays
08:48<TrueBrain>never used it :)
08:48<TrueBrain>ah, it works
08:48<TrueBrain>I have that key at the correct position
08:48<TrueBrain>I am all suprised :)
08:50<yorick>even pause pauses openttd
08:50<Zuu>Are dynamic casts allowed in OpenTTD? - Using the window_class I can detect that a window is WC_OSK, but I would like to know it's parrent window which is a member of the OSK class/struct.
08:52<Zuu>(I'm working on having a focus model where text-inputs need to have focus to recive input, and only paints the blinking '_' on text inputs that has focus. But for the OSK (on screen keyboard) I want to check if the parrent widget has focus or not.)
08:54<Zuu>Hmm, now I got the briliant idea to search for dynamic_cast, and found 6 instances of it beeing used, so I guess it is allowed then. :)
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: yes, but it is much further away from the normal typing area than the F1 key. especially if you have a hand on the mouse
08:54<SpComb>Ammler: ENGINE /q'd me too, but quit as soon as I replied
08:54<yorick>Eddi: not if you're left-handed
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>those have totally bad luck typing with mouse anyway :p
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08:57<Eddi|zuHause>a one handed keyboard would be nice sometimes
08:57<yorick>a left-handed mouse too
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14311 /branches/0.6/ (13 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Aircraft frozen above oil rig when the next order is invalid [FS#2244] (r14309)
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Pay extra when tram/road bits need to be build for a roadstop [FS#2268] (r14308)
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [YAPF] Only reserve road slots for multistop when they are really reachable [FS#2294] (r14305)
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: One could be trying to get the station name of a station that is outside of the pool (r14297)
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Default for sound effects and music volume should be in the valid range for that setting [FS#2286] (r14289)
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>but i need modificator keys on the mouse then
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09:00<frosch123>hmm, middle button like ctrl
09:00<Ammler>SpComb: now, I need mail "yes" to him. :-)
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09:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14312 /branches/0.6/src/lang/ (22 files):
09:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
09:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Update: language files (r13905, r14035, r14120, r14205, r14250, r14282, r14300)
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09:38<Zuu>Oh, there is a general parent member of Window struct. How lovely :)
09:40<@peter1138>37.8 :o
09:42<TrueBrain>Zuu: wasn't that the first thing you should have been looking at? :p
09:43<Zuu>Yea, I asumed there was no, but that there was one in the OSK struct.
09:43<Zuu>Which is kind of true as OSK derivates form Window...
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09:52<eQualizer>Is it possible with the inflation set off to have road vehicles doing more profit than what the min profit is on the detailed performance rating?
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09:56<eQualizer>Greit. :)
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10:03<Ammler>eQualizer: but quite hard.
10:03<Ammler>as you need to have every vehicle having that
10:04<eQualizer>Ammler: Yes, I know.
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10:09<yorick>you renamed to your 3rd backup name, then renamed back, and then renamed to your main name?
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>wrong direction of mouse wheel ;)
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10:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i have the same version as last time, ammler
10:11<Ammler>just wondering how you change nick with mouse wheel :-)
10:11<eQualizer>Okay, another question. Is there a way to run mac and linux versions of OpenTTD from a Usb memory?
10:12<eQualizer>And they would both use the same saves, configs and everything?
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>openttd can run from anything that you can mount
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes, openttd can use paths relative to the binary dir
10:12<Ammler>only the binary openttd is os dependent, the rest can be shared through all oses..
10:20<Zuu>Ammler: Remember you said you'd like to make a sign while you have your chat-box open? - That is currently possible here :)
10:20<Zuu>Using r14305M :p
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10:22<Ammler>M :P
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10:40<Zuu>To improve the edit boxes my modified openttd verison keeps track of currently focused widget (last clicked) and if that is an edit box, the parent window recives all input as query windows does today.
10:42<Zuu>There is still plenty of work to lift the limit of only one text box per window, but it is a neccessary step towards that.
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11:47<Zuu>Hmm, it is hard to step through the code of the network msg box as you get disconnected by pausing the code so long.. :-)
11:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14313 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Move functions dealing with the EngineRenew pool to their own file.
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11:55<yorick>Zuu: try changing net_frame_freq and net_sync_freq, you can stay connected longer then
11:55<yorick>I think
11:56<Zuu>yorick: I enabled the chat window in single-player as I only need to debug the GUI-part of it.
11:56<Zuu>Or more specific how it interact with the OSK-window.
11:57<Zuu>But thank you for the info.
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12:04<Zuu>Hm, the problem exists in trunk too, if you use the OSK to type in the chat-box the text box in the OSK does not get repainted as it should. (it get's repainted with several seconds intervall)
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12:05<FauxFaux>Really? I thought OSK used SendInput or wahtever it's called.
12:05<reven>any coders in here?
12:05<FauxFaux>Zuu: Wfm.
12:05<FauxFaux>reven: Yes.
12:05<Ammler>Hi reven, just liked to quote you here: :-)
12:06<reven>have a question if you dont mind
12:06<Zuu>FauxFaux: wfm?
12:06-!-mikl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:06<FauxFaux>Zuu: OSK "works for me", as in, acts like a normal keyboard.
12:06<reven>(ammler) huh?
12:06<reven>quote me?
12:06<reven>you lost me :)
12:06<Zuu>FauxFaux: If you click in the chat-box to open the OSK, and then type a message with your keyboard does the text in the OSK get updated for you?
12:07<Zuu>Note that when you type with your keyboard the input gets handeled by the chat-box and not by the OSK, the OSK can't even handle text-input by keyboard.
12:08<Zuu>The edit-box in it is only for appearance :-)
12:08<FauxFaux>We are talking about Windows' OSK, right? Can't work it out from the scrollback.
12:08<Zuu>I'm talking about the OSK in OpenTTD.
12:08<FauxFaux>There's an OSK in OpenTTD? :)
12:09<Zuu>Yes :)
12:09<FauxFaux>Cool. How/where?
12:09<Zuu>Just click on a text input field.
12:09<reven>does anyone know hot to get a bigger ratio of smaller houses in ottd?
12:10<reven>looks abit silly with pop 1500 and skyscrapers
12:10<Zuu>reven: the pop is in game scale, not in real life scale.
12:10<reven>but still?
12:11<reven>is there anyway to change that?
12:11<reven>the ratio i mean?
12:11<Zuu>As sure as you can do anything with OpenTTD by just spending enough time with the code ;-)
12:11<reven>so theres not a function already?
12:11<Zuu>I don't know.
12:12<reven>i dont have c++ you see
12:12<frosch123>reven: you can do it with newgrf:
12:12<reven>is there a trial version of that?
12:12<reven>or freeware :) ?
12:12<Zuu>reven: Go learn newgrf
12:12<reven>nice frosch
12:12-!-ecke [] has joined #openttd
12:13<reven>where do i find the grf program zuu?
12:13<Zuu>There are tools to help with newgrf but I think you still need to learn quite some yourself.
12:13<reven>but where do i go to learn it?
12:13<Zuu>I don't know, but I would look on the ttdpatch wiki.
12:13<reven>can i combine a patch function with ottd?
12:14<Zuu>Both ttdpatch and ottd uses newgrf format. Be observant that they do not implement the exact same set of specified features.
12:14<reven>or combine a patch with the 0.6.2 version?
12:14<Zuu>Are you talking about TTDPatch or a patch for OpenTTD?
12:15<Zuu>as in a .patch file
12:15<frosch123>reven: there are about 5 different meanings of "patch" in the context of ttd
12:15<reven>what i mean is
12:15<Ammler>frosch123: you fixed one :-)
12:16<reven>is there any way for me to implement the patch frosch was talking about but still keep version 0.06.2 where the function is not added?
12:16<Zuu>reven: what frosch123 suggested was to use a newgrf, which is not a patch.
12:17<reven>my bad
12:17<reven>didnt see that
12:17<reven>i thought he was talking about an older patch addon to the original ttd
12:17<reven>ill check it out
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12:25-!-ecke [] has quit [Quit: ecke]
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12:26-!-Swallow_ [] has joined #openttd
12:26<guru3>thought you all might be interested that irchighway just sent out a network notice to come play openttd with them ><
12:27-!-Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
12:27-!-mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
12:28<Indoril>I already know since I sent the notice ;)
12:29<guru3>ah well
12:30-!-yorick [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:31<ln>well i wasn't expecting a danish inquisition
12:31<Sacro>network notice?
12:31<@Bjarni>what goes on here?
12:31<@Bjarni>danish inquisition?
12:32<guru3>Sacro: yes, a network wide message on the irchighway irc network
12:32<ln>Bjarni: are you familiar with monty python?
12:32<@Bjarni>he is a British politician, right?
12:32<Sacro>Bjarni: yes
12:32<Sacro>minister of silly walks
12:33-!-Swallow [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:33<TrueBrain>typing is hard these days, don't you agree? :)
12:33<@Bjarni>A Danish shoe company once hired JOhn Cleese to do funny walks for a commercial. However at that time they didn't expect people to understand English so it was a commercial with no speech, only music and signs
12:34<TrueBrain>talking in that is a bit useless anyway
12:34-!-Zorn [] has joined #openttd
12:42<reven>cant find my newgrfw.cfg file any ideas?
12:43<@peter1138>Yeah, there isn't one.
12:44<@peter1138>So who's heard of this irchighway network? :p
12:44<reven>created one. never mind
12:45<Ammler>but you will...
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12:48-!-yorick_ is now known as yorick
12:49<Ammler>can we remove that "sleep 5" in config.lib as we now can't use -n without same revision anymore and need to overwrite the revision.
12:50<Ammler>I assume, someone who use "--revision=rXX" knows, what he does, and don't need that warning.
12:51<@peter1138>Can't use -n?
12:51<Ammler>you need the same revision as the server now, else you get a "network protocol" error
12:52<@peter1138>You always did, or at least always should've done.
12:52<Ammler>no, that was a recent change
12:52<Ammler>about a month ago
12:52<@peter1138>No it's not.
12:53<TrueBrain>that is active from the moment I rewrote the network protocol .. like, what, 2 years ago?
12:53<Ammler>then it was possible on some revisions between :-)
12:53<yorick>TrueBrain : it was not
12:53<yorick>the WITH_REV flag got removed
12:54<yorick>and was only checked there
12:54<yorick>so it was possible to join servers console-wise
12:54<yorick>that did not match the revision
12:54<TrueBrain>so that was a bug
12:54<TrueBrain>clearly :)
12:54<yorick>more like a "feature"
12:54<Ammler>I saw that as feature :P
12:54<TrueBrain>client and server of different revisions is really bad, in all cases :)
12:54<TrueBrain>wanting that ... sucks
12:54<yorick>not always
12:54<Ammler>it was fixed from blathijs, I guess.
12:55<TrueBrain>and so the 'sleep' is required
12:55<TrueBrain>to point that out :)
12:55<@peter1138>So basically you're complaining about the 5 second pause?
12:55<@peter1138>Well... tough.
12:55<yorick>for example the hg <-> git <-> svn
12:55<TrueBrain>if the sleep annoys you, you shouldn't be using it :)
12:55-!-ecke [] has joined #openttd
12:56<Ammler>TrueBrain: I have around 5 patches I like to use independent from trunk/server...
12:56<yorick>if you use the flag, clearly you know what you're doing
12:56<@peter1138>Clearly not.
12:56<TrueBrain>I tend to agree with peter1138 :)
12:56<yorick>you are devs, we are end users
12:56<yorick>see the difference :'*
12:56<Ammler>well, we drive from topic as always...
12:57<SmatZ>Ammler: add a patch that removes that sleep :-P
12:57<Ammler>but the answer seems not, it is ok :-)
12:57<TrueBrain>SmatZ: don't give him ideas :p
12:57<SmatZ>ah sorry :)
12:57<yorick>if you know what the --revision does, it slows the process of compiling down by 5 unneeded seconds
12:57<Ammler>SmatZ: obvious...
12:58<yorick>doesn't/didn't the compile farm force revisions?
12:58<Ammler>I just like to help you optimize code :P
12:58-!-stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:58<TrueBrain>yorick: I wish it was true, that ever user using --revision knows what it does ...
12:59<TrueBrain>last time SmatZ was telling me that --without-makedepend removes the dep-check ... (hehe, sorry SmatZ :))
12:59<TrueBrain>(I couldn't resist ... /me hugs SmatZ :))
12:59<yorick>lets get --revision --without-annoying-revision-warning
12:59<TrueBrain>lets get: --#openttd-without-yorick
13:00<SmatZ>TrueBrain: I was joking :-x
13:00<Ammler>please stop, it is ok...
13:00<TrueBrain>SmatZ: :p :p :) :)
13:00<yorick>would be such a better place for everyone that chooses to be there by themselves :-)
13:00<Ammler>I include that "skip" in my other "neverintrunk.diff"
13:01<yorick>meh, failed
13:02<yorick>that's the one
13:03-!-TinoM [] has joined #openttd
13:03<yorick> log 1 "WARNING: this version is only allowed by game servers that" <-- that's incorrect, it is not possible anymore, I think
13:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14314 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: pay for two road bits when adding/removing roadtype at drive through road stop/level crossing
13:11<TrueBrain>Ammler: poke
13:11<Ammler>TrueBrain: ?
13:12<TrueBrain>well .. I told you you would notice, and I sure you will
13:12<TrueBrain>but I wanted to poke you nevertheless
13:12<Ammler>so today is the day?
13:12<Ammler>or more tonight :-)
13:12<TrueBrain>more right now
13:12-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
13:13-!-TrueBrain changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.2 | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | We Love YAPP | THIS IS NOT A PSYCHIC SUPPORT CHANNEL
13:13-!-mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by TrueBrain
13:14<reven>anyone know how i read a pcx file?
13:14<reven>cant find the vugraphics program
13:14<yorick>open it with a sane imaging program
13:14<yorick>gimp, photoshop, paint shop pro
13:14<@peter1138>Deluxe Paint!
13:15<Ammler>reven: do you chat over a phone?
13:17<Ammler>TrueBrain: will go down?
13:17<TrueBrain>Ammler: most likely
13:18<TrueBrain>first I need to fix a STUPID bug ..
13:18<Ammler>or will it kept for old nightlies
13:18<reven>i can chat over a headset yes
13:18<reven>skype for instance
13:19<Ammler>reven: I asked because of your short lines...
13:19<reven>like that one?
13:20<yorick>there's a small chat glitch...
13:20<SmatZ>yorick: known
13:21<yorick>yes, not on the bug tracker
13:21<yorick>and quite annoying
13:21<@peter1138>You shouldn't talk to yourself.
13:23<yorick>other problem is that they don't clear when paused
13:23-!-grumbel [] has joined #openttd
13:23<SmatZ>yorick: Ctrl+R
13:24*Ammler is looking forward to see new homepage :-)
13:25<yorick>is it there yet?
13:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14315 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: allow adding roadtypes only to drive-through road stops
13:27<TrueBrain>Ammler: you should have reloaded at the correct time ...
13:27-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:28<TrueBrain>ARGH! I HATE FASTCGI! :(
13:28<FauxFaux>Is GEPAUZEERED really (german?) for paused? <3
13:28<yorick>not german
13:29<FauxFaux>Some middle-european language, at least. Norweegish? Not enough dots around the letters.
13:29*yorick gives ff a cookie
13:29<FauxFaux>Cunning use of /whois.
13:30<Ammler>hmm, how is it spelled in German?
13:31-!-Zahl_ [] has joined #openttd
13:33<frosch123>Ammler: "pausiert"
13:33<SmatZ>without "ge"? strange :)
13:34<Ammler>well the translation for paused is "Angehalten"
13:34-!-stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
13:34<SmatZ>Ammler: I guess the same is for "stopped" :)
13:35<Ammler>good hint, another bug in the translation :-)
13:35<Zuu>Do we have any equivivalent to [code] at FlySpray?
13:36-!-nappe1_ [] has quit []
13:36<Zuu>Someone who is bored may want to have a look at - after 3 hours I've yet to find the reason for this bug... :/
13:37<TrueBrain>Ammler: now would be a good time to hit reload
13:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r14316 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not allow building road over level crossings and drive-through road stops in the wrong direction even when the roadtype is present
13:37<Ammler>yep, just did :-)
13:38<SmatZ>Zuu: thanks for your effort :)
13:38-!-Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:38-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
13:38<@peter1138>-Fix (what) ?
13:38<Zuu>SmatZ: Thanks for thanking me :-)
13:39<SmatZ>peter1138: multiple revisions... when you tried to build a road over level crossing in the wrong axis, you didn't get any error message
13:39<yorick>TB: need me to translate to NL?
13:40<TrueBrain>yorick: not at this stage
13:40<yorick>ok :)
13:40<Ammler>nice page
13:41<yorick>the serverlist is being slow
13:41<Ammler>where do I get the download page?
13:41<yorick>above the news button
13:41<Ammler>ah seperate button :-)
13:42<TrueBrain>Ammler: how blind can one be? :p
13:42<yorick>"Latest User Screenshot of 0.6.2" <-- screenshot if of 0.5, not of 0.6.2
13:43*TrueBrain wonders if there will come anything positive from yorick's mouth, or that he just has complains ..
13:43-!-Singaporekid [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:43<yorick>nono complains
13:43<yorick>bug reports
13:43<yorick>it's all very nice :-)
13:44<SmatZ>very nice
13:44<Ammler>is that GRF flag new on the server list?
13:44-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
13:45<Zuu>You are talking about the website redesign are you? .... Oh, the main page have changed now..
13:45<TrueBrain>Ammler: yes, only the grf flag is new, the rest is all like it was days ago :p
13:45-!-ccfreak2k [] has quit [Quit: changing servers]
13:46<Ammler>TrueBrain: I like that, most will only have it because of generic trams, but still
13:46<TrueBrain>Ammler: indeed :)
13:46<TrueBrain>still many somehow don't ... :p
13:47<FauxFaux>D: at shift-right 1s in window.cpp. :(
13:47<Ammler>we need to shorten our title
13:48<TrueBrain>anyway, Ammler, and also you, Zuu, please use to fetch data about revisions and stuff :)
13:48<FauxFaux>The new website dislikes my Opera / min font size enforcement. :)
13:48<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: explain? :)
13:48<Zuu>TrueBrain: Is it "stable" now?
13:49<Zuu>Or rather will the old stuff be closed down soon?
13:49<@peter1138>So finger doesn't work? :(
13:49<TrueBrain>Zuu: as in: now
13:49<@peter1138>finger: connect: Connection refused
13:49<TrueBrain>peter1138: hehe :) That you still have a finger client .. :p
13:50<FauxFaux>TrueBrain: Buttons and boxes overflow. Who's in charge, will they accept patches? I don't mind fixing for Opera.
13:50<Zuu>Oh, my server status page show broken URL on all the old stuff. Guess it IS time to update then :-)
13:50-!-Chris82 [] has joined #openttd
13:50<Chris82>hey hey :)
13:50<Chris82>cool new design on
13:50<@peter1138>Oh, there's a new site.
13:50<yorick> <-- this should fix the chat glitch
13:50<Chris82>just a quick question
13:50<@peter1138>Needs more whitespace and less grey bollocks at the top.
13:50<Chris82>how can I disable industry closings in the source code?
13:51<yorick>try grep
13:51<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: nice overflowing :) But not much there is to fix about that ..
13:51<Chris82>although I have turned industry to stable there are so damn many closings every year (with latest trunk that is)
13:51<TrueBrain>sorry Zuu :) this new system does work better :)
13:51<Zuu>yorick: chat glitch is not the OSK problem but another problem related to the network message window?
13:52<@peter1138>Hmm, yes. This site is a bit gay when you use a larger font size.
13:52<Ammler> <-- do you see the whole title?
13:52<TrueBrain>Ammler: no
13:52<Zuu>TrueBrain: No problem, Rubidium told me 1-2 weeks ago, so I have had time to update.. :)
13:52<SmatZ>yorick: there is difference between hack that somehow fixes the issue and a fix that you can prove it should be right... what kind of update is your patch?
13:52<SmatZ>Ammler: no
13:52<yorick>it does +2
13:52<yorick>Chris82: industry_cmd.cpp line 2180
13:52<TrueBrain>Ammler: didn't I tell you? How ever much time you give them, they only start fixing when the old is no longer working ;)
13:53<SmatZ>yorick: yeah :) I wonder if it will work when you change font or so...
13:53<Chris82>thx yorick I check it out
13:53<Zuu>At least currently people will not have the old problem of that their OTTDAU clients telling them that there is an update when the server can't find what is last version.
13:53<Ammler>TrueBrain: and I gave you right at the end :-)
13:53<FauxFaux>(Large fonts are pro, btw)
13:53<@peter1138>How can I switch back to the old site?
13:53<TrueBrain>Ammler: I just wanted to point out that I am even proven right ;)
13:53<TrueBrain>peter1138: not
13:54<Ammler>more then another style
13:54<yorick>how can I change the background color not to have this much contrast with the foreground without making it look stupid?
13:55<Chris82>Yorick: Do you think it's better to comment that part of the code out or just replace the true in line 2182 by false?
13:55<Chris82>I am not really sure wheter this will also prevent the closedown messages or just prevent the closedown and still show a closedown message
13:55<yorick>Chris82: I think you should look for closeit and remove the whole closeit
13:55<yorick>setting closeit to false should do both
13:56<Ammler>Chris82: also possible with newgrf
13:56<TrueBrain>FauxFaux / peter1138: disable the CSS, and you will be fine with large font ;)
13:56<SmatZ>yorick: the best way will be to open a FS task and attach your patch :)
13:56<yorick>SmatZ: heh
13:56<Chris82>Ammler: Yes? Which one?
13:56<yorick>need to go now
13:56-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
13:57<@peter1138>I guess I can just tweak it to make it work, as it's in svn.
13:57<@peter1138>Or used to be :p
13:57<TrueBrain>peter1138: current website is not in SVN yet
13:57<TrueBrain>and there is very little that can be done about big fonts overflowing ..
13:57<Ammler>Chris82: <-- example how you make lumber mill available
13:58<Chris82>hmmm this does not really do what I want I think? I just want that the existing industry don't close down even if they are not serviced :) unfortunately I have no idea how to edit grfs myself as all the tools for it don't work on my OS
13:59<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: any suggestions are welcome :)
13:59<Ammler> <-- properity 08 to 0
13:59<FauxFaux>Laziness seems the best option.
13:59<Ammler>Chris82: which os?
14:00<Chris82>Server 2008
14:00<TrueBrain>in fact, it is only the navigation that is a problem ...
14:01<Chris82>I thought there would be some kind of probability of a closedown stored somewhere in industry_cmd.cpp but I am too blind to find it if there is one
14:03-!-reven [] has quit [Quit: You have an unusual magnetic personality. Don´t walk too close to metal objects which are not fastened down.]
14:05<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: here, this fixes most of the problems ;)
14:05<TrueBrain>just FF for some reason removes the navigation bar with an odd font-size amount :p
14:06<Chris82>I wonder why at line 2105 industry_cmd.cpp closeit is true by default when smooth economy is enabled
14:06-!-Doorslammer [] has quit []
14:06<@peter1138>Presumably it is set to false later on...
14:06<Chris82>and the comment in line 2137 doesn't fit the code below, because the comment says do not stop closing while the code below is doing just that
14:07<Zuu>Weee, smart thinking here.. loop through all windows and when finding the window that matches a certain pointer do something with that window. Much smarter to instead use the pointer straight ahead... :-D
14:07<Zuu>(my own code)
14:08<Zuu>Or rather what is left of the window key input loop after me changing the internals of it.
14:08<Chris82>ok I think it's just misleading, because closeit is true by default the comment says close when foo and when foo is not the case the statement below sets closeit to false
14:09<Chris82>I think it would be better the other way round though because then you can explicitly say when to close an industry and not miss cases where it shouldn't be closed but it is because of the default value for closeit
14:13<Ammler>I dislike this only debian support
14:14<TrueBrain>Ammler: which only debian?
14:15<@peter1138>There's generic binaries too.
14:15<Ammler>for the stable, you get the feeling other distros hasn't a build.
14:15<@peter1138>Oh, for stable.
14:15<TrueBrain>Ammler: will change with the next release :)
14:16<TrueBrain>the simple truth is nobody ever build them for stables ..
14:17<Ammler>well, they are in the repos of the distros itself
14:17<TrueBrain>yup :)
14:17<Ammler>maybe you could like there?
14:17<TrueBrain>that is linux ;) No need to publish binaries for distros .. they do it theirselves :p
14:18<TrueBrain>Ammler: there are like 100 places with binaries for all kinds of distros .. impossible to keep such a list up-to-date
14:19<Ammler>ok, understandable...
14:19<TrueBrain>although I hope to be able to publish rpms via the compile-farm soon..
14:19<TrueBrain>but that is tricky
14:20<@peter1138>Trickier than OS X binaries? ;)
14:20<TrueBrain>not by far
14:20<TrueBrain>OS X sucks
14:20<TrueBrain>if only they would use GNU binutils ...
14:22<Ammler>TrueBrain: it isn't that important that you can "install" nightlies
14:22<Ammler>I am not sure, there are people around, which would like to
14:23<TrueBrain>there are always people around like that ;)
14:23<Ammler>but maybe a note at the download page, that you should check your download repo of the distro
14:23<TrueBrain>we even have MorphOS users .. :p :p
14:23<Ammler>or is that obvious?
14:23<TrueBrain>good idea :)
14:23<Ammler>I have installed only stable OpenTTD from the packman
14:24<Ammler>the nightlies are all uesed as usual folders
14:24<Ammler>just "make"
14:24<TrueBrain>oops, error in website ... 'latest' nightly is never reloaded from disk :p
14:24<@peter1138>Harr harr!
14:26-!-Swallow_ [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]]
14:26<TrueBrain>anyway, nightly was produced correctly :) Yeah!
14:26<frosch123>but not on #openttd.notice :p
14:26<TrueBrain>no XMLRPC link yet
14:26<TrueBrain>on my TODO :p
14:27<frosch123>but, yeah, sunos does no longer fail :)
14:27<TrueBrain>it is no longer produced either :p
14:27<TrueBrain>0 downloads ... :p
14:28<frosch123>nor dedicated servers
14:28<TrueBrain>also, never downloaded :p
14:29-!-gummywormz [] has joined #openttd
14:29<gummywormz>need help installing the game
14:30<TrueBrain>but if there is any demand for a dedicated server, it will be produced again
14:37<Zuu>gummywormz: What have you done yet?
14:37<TrueBrain>gummywormz: you might want to try to be a bit more specific
14:37<TrueBrain>like walking into a supermarket and yelling: I want to buy stuff! :)
14:38<gummywormz>when i download the .dmg file it says mounting failed
14:39<Zuu>Now you have told us much more, you've told that you use MacOSX and probably gave people that know MacOSX a hint of what gone wrong.
14:40<Zuu>Or have I mistaken something, isn't .dmg for MacOSX?
14:41<gummywormz>dmg is for mac yes
14:41<gummywormz>ok got a specific error tis time
14:41<gummywormz>i ca download the file this time
14:41-!-yorick [] has joined #openttd
14:42<gummywormz>it says can't mount due to error 95 (no mountable file systems)
14:43<SmatZ>I removed HFS support (of whatever it was) from my kernel, can't test, sorry :-/
14:44<TrueBrain>peter1138: you like to yell random numbers, don't you? :)
14:44<SmatZ>but nobody else complained... what OSX version do you have?
14:45<gummywormz>10.2.8 :/
14:45<SmatZ>that's outdated, sorry :-x
14:45<yorick>TB: 42 is not so random :-P
14:46<Ammler>[20:30] <TrueBrain> but if there is any demand for a dedicated server, it will be produced again <-- I was once asked for stable dedicated server
14:46<gummywormz>i have idea
14:46<TrueBrain>Ammler: once? :p
14:46<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
14:46<TrueBrain>I will at least write the VM to produce dedicated servers, if we get an other request, I will add it :)
14:46<SmatZ>TrueBrain: ^^^ :-P
14:47<TrueBrain>SmatZ: wht did you do :(
14:47<@DorpsGek>yorick: Invalid arguments for _commit.
14:47<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
14:47<Ammler>hmm, why do we compile them self?
14:47<SmatZ>gummywormz: anyway, 10.3.9 has been required for at least 2 years...
14:47<gummywormz>i will upgrade it
14:48<frosch123>but don't upgrade to 10.5, as that won't work again IIRC
14:48<TrueBrain>ExpatError: junk after document element: line 2, column 0
14:48<TrueBrain>ERROR 2008-09-13T18:47:28 supybot Exception id: 0x6e488
14:48<TrueBrain>frosch123: it does for PPC, and it does for stable ;)
14:48<SmatZ>yeah :) nightlys don't work with 10.5, releases with 10.3 :)
14:48<SmatZ>so get 10.4 :)
14:48<TrueBrain>lol, of course it fails .. lol :)
14:49<frosch123>ok, so all released nighlies work now :)
14:49-!-gummywormz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:50<@peter1138>Don't Apple charge for these minor updates?
14:50<SmatZ>so does Microsoft
14:50<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
14:51<@peter1138>SmatZ, they at least pretend they're major updates ;)
14:51-!-gummywormz [] has joined #openttd
14:51<gummywormz>yeah but i still should be able to mount the file
14:51<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by bjarni :: r7588 /trunk (4 files in 3 dirs) (2006-12-28 01:24:00 UTC)
14:51<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Change: [OSX] removed the flag JAGUAR since it didn't work anyway
14:52<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Also removed all the Makefile code regarding this flag since it's no longer needed
14:52<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Removed documentation about special limitations regarding running the game on OSX 10.2
14:52<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: OpenTTD now officially needs OSX 10.3.9 to work correctly (the trunk needed that for months)
14:52<gummywormz>yeah ok
14:52<gummywormz>but i STILL should be able to mount the file
14:54<gummywormz>when i would be able to click the file it should come up unsupported operating system or something
14:54<TrueBrain>say you spent 10 hours fixing that, you still wouldn't be able to run it :)
14:55<gummywormz>but still :/
14:55<gummywormz>i need to repair privledges anyway
14:55<TrueBrain>so you want us to go through all kind of loopholes to show you an error?
14:55<gummywormz>hopefully that'll fix this annoying kernel crash thing
14:56<TrueBrain>(in general it is really hard to show 'unsupproted' messages ;))
14:56<TrueBrain>gummywormz: consider upgrading to 10.4 :)
14:56<gummywormz>i will
14:56<gummywormz>i meant to send the e-mail to aks my friend for it days ago :P
14:57<gummywormz>i still have an xp at home
14:57<gummywormz>so i can use it there
14:57*FauxFaux centers the status bar on whatever window happens to be largest.
14:59-!-tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:01<gummywormz>ok trying to mount it now
15:01-!-tokai [] has joined #openttd
15:01-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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15:04<FauxFaux> \o/
15:05<FauxFaux>peter1138: That what you ordered? :p
15:05<gummywormz>hmm lemme test something
15:05<TrueBrain>"A benign corporate office suddenly becomes the sexual playground for a lesbian vampire who likes to watch her female victims seduce one another. With a drop-dead gorgeous body and typing skills to match, Monique is the perfect secretary. Her desire to cast fatal spells upon sexy co-workers and spy on their bouts of lovemaking brings her to the attention of Carl - spineless cable guy-turned-fearless vampire hunter." <- wtf?!?! People can make such weird
15:05<TrueBrain>movies ...
15:06-!-Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:06<hylje>sounds perfectly reasonable
15:07<FauxFaux>I want to watch it, what's it called?
15:07<TrueBrain>well, maybe if you are looking for porn movies .. I was just browsing the 'Action' category :(
15:07<yorick>that's hidden porn
15:08<TrueBrain> Sex Hex 2007 DVDRip XviD-FiCO
15:08<FauxFaux>Maybe you should move out of the "women on women action" category.
15:08<Ammler>I know, it is game about money, but I can't get used to that logo...
15:08<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: DOH! :(
15:08<gummywormz>you may want to check your file
15:08<gummywormz>i downloaded a test file and it works fine
15:09<TrueBrain>gummywormz: you may want to update your OS
15:09<gummywormz>so ya may wanna check the file to so if it's working properly
15:09<Ammler>I will miss that most from the old page :-)
15:09<TrueBrain>as I donwloaded the file, and it works fine
15:09<TrueBrain>poor Ammler :p
15:09<SmatZ>[21:06:00] <TrueBrain> "A benign corporate office suddenly <== what movies is it?
15:09<SmatZ>ahh sex hex
15:10-!-Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@] has joined #openttd
15:10<gummywormz>i'm off
15:10<gummywormz>for now
15:10<gummywormz>i'll try it on my XP computer
15:10-!-gummywormz [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
15:11<TrueBrain>how insisting can a person be .... omg ..
15:11<SmatZ> looks... empty :-/
15:12<TrueBrain>IE 6?
15:12<TrueBrain>it even looks empty here
15:12<TrueBrain>I guess I moved a bit too much dirs :p
15:14<TrueBrain> <- hahaha :) I want that for OpenTTD too!!!! :p
15:17-!-ecke [] has quit [Quit: ecke]
15:17<TrueBrain>but first we should port OpenTTD to OSX 10.2 .. to make one user happy
15:17<TrueBrain>(btw, screenshots fixed)
15:18<SmatZ>TrueBrain: thanks :) now I have to wait for caches to update..
15:18-!-welshdragon [] has joined #openttd
15:18<planetmaker> <-- Truebrain, Nullio is offering Leopard compile service now
15:18<planetmaker>... if you devs want it :)
15:19<@peter1138>Which is can be played online!
15:21<@peter1138>From the Freeciv-Forever site.
15:24<TrueBrain>planetmaker: see a while back a conversation with lobster
15:24<TrueBrain>we won't link to it, neither support it
15:24<TrueBrain>(simply: untrusted source)
15:25<planetmaker>ok, I didn't see that discussion. Hm... sad... :S
15:25<planetmaker>no link with a strong disclaimer like "here it is, but we don't support it"?
15:25-!-Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
15:25<TrueBrain>planetmaker: and what is next? Links to Windows Mobile binaries? (where they have a donate page which doesn't donate to us)
15:26<TrueBrain>before we know it we have a long list with all kind of obscure links to places we don't know neither trust
15:26<TrueBrain>doesn't really ... help :)
15:26<TrueBrain>so, the forum is as good as place as any to have such 'link' ;)
15:26<Ammler>you need a ssh account on MAC server...
15:26<planetmaker>TrueBrain: it's a slippery slope argument. The line is where you draw it. It's just just... there are time and again people just asking about exactly that
15:27<TrueBrain>Ammler: that 'might' be worth considering, as even that might be considered an untrusted source ;)
15:27<TrueBrain>planetmaker: and they should visit the forum for exactly that :)
15:27<TrueBrain>from point of view, it is a very stupid idea to publish links to untrusted sources
15:27<TrueBrain>I mean, if any of these guys put a virus in it
15:27<TrueBrain>people won't say: ah, yes, warned me for it
15:27<planetmaker>good point
15:28<TrueBrain>no, they say: BUT OPENTTD.ORG LINKED TO IT
15:28<TrueBrain>so it is not such a slippery slope argument
15:28<TrueBrain>is is a very valid one, which needs to be kept in mind ;)
15:28-!-NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@] has joined #openttd
15:28<Ammler>TrueBrain: a ssh access for generating the binary and transfer to
15:29<TrueBrain>planetmaker: and I agree, people are asking about it, so I am trying really hard to get it to work .. but so far, no luck ;)
15:29<TrueBrain>Ammler: I just hope Apple donates us an Apple server :)
15:30<planetmaker>no doubt about that - I just thought it to be an intermediate solution. But, yeah, I see your point.
15:30<planetmaker>is that somewhat likely, TrueBrain ?
15:30<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I see no problem him making binaries and posting them in the topic
15:30<Ammler>TrueBrain: did you ask?
15:30<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I doubt that
15:30<TrueBrain>Ammler: we tried to make contact with Apple (and Microsoft)
15:30<TrueBrain>both no reply what so ever
15:30<TrueBrain>Apple did sent a 'received' letter, but no reply
15:31<Ammler>auto "received" ?
15:32<planetmaker>But what kind of computer would you consider "your" computer? Only one where you've got physical access and complete root access?
15:32<Chris82>hehe then every *nix rig at uni would be mine :D
15:32<planetmaker>or one, where you have that in a VM?
15:33<Ammler>planetmaker: compile farm is on a virtual server... (afaik)
15:34-!-Osai is now known as Osai^city
15:34<blathijs>TrueBrain: What's the problem with 10.5, that the nightlies we have now doesn't work? Doesn't Apple do backwards compatibility properly?
15:34<TrueBrain>blathijs: OpenDarwin closed their doors
15:34<TrueBrain>so all those tools are not updated after 10-2007
15:34<TrueBrain>and 10.5 Intel for some reason has rpoblems with the binaries produces by those tools
15:34<TrueBrain>it seems a linker (binutils) problem
15:34<TrueBrain>odcctools is used, but no update avialable
15:34<TrueBrain>planetmaker: "your" is a bit weird word
15:35<TrueBrain>for now we only produce binaries via the compile-farm as in: those things on the dedicated server
15:35<blathijs>TrueBrain: Ah, nasty
15:35<TrueBrain>for releases this will be filled up with additional sources of members who have earned our trust :)
15:36<TrueBrain>(and sorry, some random user from the forum does not fall under 'trusted' ;))
15:37<TrueBrain>but okay, it just sucks VirtualBox can't run OSX in a VM :p
15:38<planetmaker>hehehe :)
15:38<@Bjarni>for the record: I'm able to mount the dmg file from SF just fine and the checksum works
15:38<TrueBrain>Bjarni: of course you are, the problem was the user .. that we all understood
15:38<TrueBrain>his 'kernel' was not stable... then why do we bother .. :p
15:38<planetmaker>TrueBrain: website question: where's the nightly archive link? Or only current availabe now?
15:38<TrueBrain>planetmaker: there is no listing yet of the archive
15:38<@Bjarni>10.2.8 was pretty stable unless you broke it
15:38<TrueBrain>but you can request any valid revision like:
15:39<@Bjarni>and the only way to break it is the same way as breaking linux: installing/removing something you shouldn't have done
15:39<TrueBrain>Bjarni: I broke it?
15:39<@Bjarni>I mean you can get an unstable kernel on OSX if you use 10.2.8 and install something for 10.3.x
15:39<@Bjarni>I guess that's what this guy have done
15:39<Ammler>will you make unaccessable?
15:39<Noldo>TrueBrain: how is the languge for website decided?
15:40<TrueBrain>Ammler: no, why would we?
15:40<TrueBrain>Noldo: Accept-Language of browser
15:40<@Bjarni>and if you do that using your root password there is little the OS can do to prevent you from breaking it
15:40<@Bjarni>anyway I'm off
15:40-!-Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:42<yorick>it is more nightly than trunk, no?
15:42<yorick>confusing ^^
15:42<yorick>"Download trunk"
15:52<Eddi|zuHause># An der Noooooordseeeeeküste (4x *clap*)
15:52<Eddi|zuHause># Am plattdeutschen Straaaaaand
15:52-!-Chris82 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:52<Eddi|zuHause># Sind die Fiiiiiiiische im Wasser
15:52<Eddi|zuHause># Und selteeeeen an Laaaaand
15:54<Ammler>Zuu: do we need to change our rev file too?
15:54<Zuu>Ammler: No, you can leave it as it is.
15:54<Ammler>and if we like to? :-)
15:55<Ammler>I would like to add the r
15:55<Zuu>hmm, and I should probably get started with that and take a pause form Visual Studio / OpenTTD ;-)
15:55<Ammler>you didn't?
15:55<Zuu>Ammler: For astetical reasons or practical reasons?
15:55<Zuu>Eather way you have to convince dihedral to use the same format I'd say.
15:56<Ammler>practial reasons, to show which protocol we use
15:57<Zuu>Ammler: Nope, I just published the focus-stuff and a notice on the forum to OTTDAU users.
15:57<Ammler>as we also have servers with mercurial (h)
15:58<Zuu>Sure, can you just wait until I tell you it's time to change?
15:58<Ammler>or stable with (0)
15:58<yorick>something tells me it isn't realistic that 4 out of 5 people waiting at a bus stop want to go to another country
15:58<yorick>in reality, it seems far from
15:58<Zuu>Ammler: But there will always be an 'r' or will I need to detect other characters?
15:59<TrueBrain>I wish I had access to a OSX 10.5 Intel box .. then I could try things ..
15:59<@peter1138>The scrambled word is:
15:59<@peter1138>H T M L
15:59<@peter1138>Clue: The language used to create web pages.
15:59<Ammler>Zuu, the 2 official server we run and you have will mostly be svn servers
16:00<Zuu>Ok, so for now I change it to report "no update" if it is not an 'r' at the beginig.
16:01-!-Aylomen [] has quit []
16:02<Zuu>Should we maybe rename the file form 'rev' to something else if we change the format?
16:02<TrueBrain>finger.txt ;)
16:02-!-Aylomen [] has joined #openttd
16:03<Zuu>Well THAT would be missleading to call it finger.txt...
16:04<guru3>wow i got a train station to an outstanding rating for its cargo :o
16:04<guru3>first time i remember that
16:05-!-thingwath [~thingwath@] has joined #openttd
16:05<SmatZ>guru3: Large advertising campaign...
16:05<Ammler>Zuu: I think, we can make it uniform and call it versions.txt too
16:05<guru3>oh.. i did do that
16:05<TrueBrain>Ammler: call it finger.txt! :p
16:05<Zuu>Ammler: Ok, and use the format of versions.txt on
16:06<Ammler>Zuu: yep
16:06<Ammler>well, to I need to add the other text?
16:06<Zuu>Okay, put more work for you but fine with me :)
16:07<Ammler>well, I like to change it anyway to support different protocols
16:07-!-Osai^city is now known as Osai
16:07<Zuu>I will currently only rely on what is on the first and last field of finger.txt
16:08<Ammler>TrueBrain: that was a joke?
16:08<Ammler>or do you change that?
16:08<blathijs>What file are you discussing?
16:08<TrueBrain>Ammler: no, I tried to suggest to use finger.txt over versions.txt :)
16:09<Zuu>And if we should be joking, why listen to the man who came up with the name 'NoAI'? ;)
16:09<TrueBrain>but it doesn't matter how you call it, as long as you remember it
16:09<TrueBrain> remains how it is
16:09<TrueBrain>(just finger.txt was more clear in my opinion, that is all :))
16:09<TrueBrain>talk to Rubidium about that :p
16:09<Ammler>wasn't finger something else?
16:10<Ammler>infos about a user
16:11<@peter1138>Still can't use finger :(
16:12<@peter1138>Works on :D
16:12<TrueBrain>peter1138: I was in fact trying to figure out how to configure finger ... but I failed :(
16:12<Ammler>> finger
16:12<Ammler>finger: no such user.
16:12<TrueBrain>Ammler: finger
16:13<Ammler>Zuu: hmm, we could also include the GRFPack version to finger.txt :-)
16:14<Zuu>TrueBrain: Currently the finger.txt need me to look on different fields for diferent versions to find the correct line too look on, unless I use line-number. Perhaps add a field that is the name/ID of that line?
16:15<Zuu>Or I could combine the last two fields and match that against a string, but is a bit hacky maybe.
16:15<TrueBrain>Zuu: okay, I completely failed to parse that line ..
16:16<Zuu>Okay, then i try to write it again...
16:16<TrueBrain> has NO predefined order
16:16<TrueBrain>'finger' gives a way a lot of info on a machine :s
16:17<Ammler>r14000 2008-9-13 nightlies/trunk public <-- so you would also support if we would use a stable
16:17<TrueBrain>Ammler: try using 09 instead of 9 ;)
16:18<planetmaker>No one logged on.
16:18<Zuu>I want to make a php-function that takes an identifier and returns path and version. For this I can't use just field 3 or just field 4. But I could do $s = $field[2] . $field[3] and then test if $s is equal to given identifier.
16:19<@peter1138>Heh, the days of .plan...
16:20<TrueBrain>Zuu: still you make no sense, but if you understand yourself .. fine by me :)
16:21<TrueBrain>also, remember that only 'releases' have an additional field
16:22<TrueBrain>most sites closed down their finger daemon :)
16:22<Zuu>Oh, there is no trailing tab on the other ones, good to keep in mind. :)
16:23<Ammler>7.2 2008-09-01 ottdc_grfpack
16:23<Zuu>TrueBrain: I need a way to connect a line to "Last Stable" or "Last stable including pre-stable" etc. And as line number is not an option I first though of using the third and last field when I saw some of them had 4 fields... :)
16:23<TrueBrain>peter1138: sorry, no real 'finger' for us :)
16:23<TrueBrain>releases\ttesting always points to the latest testing
16:24<TrueBrain>releases\tstable always point to the latest stable
16:24<TrueBrain>so it should be very simple
16:24<Ammler>maybe you should replace <stable> with 0.6.2
16:24<TrueBrain><stable> is a clear indicator there is no testing, and stable is in its place
16:24<TrueBrain>0.6.2 would suggest 0.6.2 is testing
16:25<TrueBrain>for example, the noai line can become <nightlies/trunk>
16:25<TrueBrain>to indicate it is merged
16:26<TrueBrain>simply put: <N> means that the given line should redirect to N, which is also in that file
16:26<Ammler>r14222 2008-09-03 nightlies/noai noai <-- shouldn't it be so then?
16:26<Ammler>(2x noai)
16:26<Ammler>now, I get you :-)
16:26<TrueBrain>then again, I am repeating the documentation at
16:27<TrueBrain>good :)
16:27*peter1138 ponders warming the bed up.
16:27<Zuu>TrueBrain: is <N> always an identifier in the 4:th field?
16:27*TrueBrain suggests putting a girl on the bed
16:27<TrueBrain>always gives a good warmth
16:28<TrueBrain>Zuu: <N> is either 'stable' or the 3rd field
16:28<TrueBrain>(4th is mostly empty)
16:28<Zuu>So <stable> is an exception?
16:28<Ammler>no release is the exception
16:28*Zuu thinks it is unneccesary complicated to pharse that file...
16:28<TrueBrain>as <releases> is ambiguous :)
16:28<TrueBrain>Ammler: well, yes, that is more correct ;)
16:29<Zuu>That is why I suggested a unique identifier field for each line.
16:29<TrueBrain>my parsers so far are VERY simplistic
16:29<TrueBrain>Zuu: the problem is 'releases' is ambiguous, it contains both testing and stable
16:29<TrueBrain>so there was need for an addition field to seperate between thsoe 2, to keep it unique
16:30<TrueBrain>your 'unique' identifier is there: 3+4
16:30<Ammler>Zuu: the last 2 fields together are unique
16:30<TrueBrain>always unique
16:30<Zuu>Yes, but if you add an unique id-field and have that in < > it will not be ambiguous.
16:30<TrueBrain>and together they give exactly enough info to get all the data (including url)
16:30<Zuu>Ammler: Yes, but then I can't call my function reqrusive in case I reach a < >.
16:30<TrueBrain>as "" + field[2] + "/" + field[0] is the dir
16:31<TrueBrain>Zuu: the only thing you need to do in that function, is make 'stable' and 'testing' an exception
16:31<Zuu>TrueBrain: Do you have a pharser in php to get path and version of a given line identified in some way?
16:31<TrueBrain>then recursion will work just fine
16:31<TrueBrain>'a given line identified in some way'
16:31<TrueBrain>return line[0]
16:31<TrueBrain>sorry, but you are way too vague
16:32<Zuu>Well, in a valid way. Such as LAST_STABLE or LAST_NOAI etc.
16:32<TrueBrain>you want last stable? Assuming you split the file in lines and the lines in fields
16:33<Zuu>Yes, that is what I am doing.
16:33<TrueBrain>if ($request == "stable" || $request == "testing") { if ($field[2] == "releases" && $field[3] == $request) return $field; } else if ($field[2] == $request) return $field;
16:33<TrueBrain>I don't see the problem :)
16:33<TrueBrain>where request is either 'stable', 'testing', or 'nightlies/noai', 'nightlies/trunk'
16:34<TrueBrain>then the caller of that function cao do: if ($field[0][0] == "<") $field = thatFunction($field[0])
16:36<TrueBrain>that is not too unlogic, is it?
16:37<Zuu>I maybe said yes to early, but I split my $page into lines and then do for each on them. So not exactly as you do it.
16:37<TrueBrain>to only weirdness really is 'releases', but they are weird in many more ways :) (for example, they are not named like others)
16:37-!-Yeggstry [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:38<TrueBrain>foreach ($line in $page) { $field = split($line, "\t"); ... }
16:38<TrueBrain>is what I would do
16:38<TrueBrain>give or take order of params
16:39<TrueBrain>(I never know if it is split($line, "\t"), or split("\t", $line) .. PHP is really incosistant with that ...)
16:39-!-ecke [] has joined #openttd
16:39*TrueBrain considers writing his own fingerd :p
16:40<TrueBrain>first: Star Wars The Force Unleashed
16:40-!-Yeggstry [] has joined #openttd
16:41<Zuu>TrueBrain: this is how I have it:
16:41<Ammler>i need to update my script also a little bit with grep -v "<nightlies/trunk>"
16:41<Zuu>(see the function finger)
16:44<TrueBrain>what about it?
16:44<Zuu>TrueBrain: Would you mind post a pastebin post with your code glued togeather, because I can't see how you would glue it togeather.
16:45<TrueBrain>(if you give me an url, at least tell me what your intensions are with it)
16:45<TrueBrain>all I can see now, is that yours will fail for resursive
16:45<TrueBrain>remove your lines
16:46<Zuu>Yes I know my will fail for recrusive that is why I asked for help.
16:46<TrueBrain>your version fails btw, 'field' against 'fields'
16:46-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:47<TrueBrain>and I gave you a solution to solve that .. what more do you want from me? :)
16:47<Zuu>Yes that is because i used $fields but had to rename it to $field to match your code.
16:48<TrueBrain>but, as you want things shewed out for you:
16:48<Zuu>TrueBrain: I know I'm might be asking for to much but currently I don't see how to glue your parts togeather. It certainly looks logical to you. I'm suer.
16:48<Zuu>I'm sure*
16:48<TrueBrain>it needs a bit of substr on the recursive part
16:48<TrueBrain>but oh wlel
16:48<TrueBrain>and I completely fail to see what you don't understand :)
16:49<Zuu>" if ($field[0][0] == "<") $field = thatFunction($field[0])" this looks alien to mee :)
16:49<TrueBrain>it might be wise to cache the result of the GetFile, but okay .. performance was not in order here
16:49<TrueBrain>while ($res[0][0] == "<") $res = finger($res[0]);
16:49<TrueBrain>I did it again in the pastebin now
16:50<TrueBrain>just allowed infinite redirects to work this time
16:50<TrueBrain>but it should be something like: $res = finger(substr($res[0], 1, -1));
16:50<yorick>"result = result | (*p) - 32;" <-- snipped from the configurable hotkeys patch, it complains it does not understand what is ment and suggests I use brackets
16:50<TrueBrain>but oh well
16:50<TrueBrain>yorick: even I think it is ambiguous
16:50<TrueBrain>good for your compiler it noticed it too
16:51<yorick>yes, but what does it mean?
16:51<TrueBrain>that you sould add brackets!
16:51<Zuu>TrueBrain: Ah, now I see what you mean by that line, all from the begining my intention was to build the recrusion into the finger-function.
16:51<TrueBrain>Zuu: possible, but then you can't return
16:51<Zuu>TrueBrain: Thank you very much for taking your time.
16:51<TrueBrain>then you should 'break'
16:51<TrueBrain>which makes it a tiny bit harder, as when it fails to find, it drops out too
16:51<yorick>TB: it is not my patch, and I don't know where to add brackets
16:52<TrueBrain>so you need an additional variable :p
16:52<TrueBrain>Zuu: and sorry I didn't understand what you didn't understand :)
16:52<TrueBrain>yorick: I would put them between the s and u of 'result' ;)
16:52<Zuu>The whole server is a big hack, so a slight waste somewhere shouldn't be that bad.
16:52<yorick>what result?
16:52<TrueBrain>yorick: 1 + 3 * 6 <- where would you put brackets to make it absolutely non-ambigious (well, in this case it is clear, but still :))
16:53<yorick>em, (1+3) * 6 :-)
16:53<TrueBrain>now do that with your line
16:53<TrueBrain>how hard can that be
16:53<yorick>result = result | ((*p) - 32);
16:53<TrueBrain>I don't think res(ult = result | (*p) - 32); will help
16:53<TrueBrain>well, for example
16:53<yorick>or result = (result | (*p)) - 32;
16:53<TrueBrain>I think the compiler wanted to execute 'result = (result | (*p)) - 32;
16:54<TrueBrain>but I am not sure if - takes precedenace over |
16:54<TrueBrain>people in this channel most likely know that better than I do :)
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>there are a lot of places where you can put additional brackets ;)
16:54<yorick>neither does it, because it complains about it
16:54<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: very true ;)
16:54<TrueBrain>I btw wonder why a compiler would complain about | and - mixture
16:54<TrueBrain>but okay ...
16:54<TrueBrain>yorick: are you sure you have the correct line? :)
16:55<yorick>it complains about using | and not having brackets
16:55<yorick>it does not like that as it does not know what is ment
16:55<TrueBrain>a, '-' comes before '|'
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>you have no idea how often people come into #mathe and ask stuff about formulas like "a + b / c + d"
16:55<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: they did it wrong in a big news station in our country ... really shameful :(
16:56<yorick>TB: where?
16:56<TrueBrain>yorick: if you put brackets like you just said you did, it will no longer complain
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>and if we say "you miss some brackets" they answer "there are no brackets"
16:56<TrueBrain>if it does, something else is going on
16:56<yorick>TB: and it has the risk of being calculated wrong
16:56<yorick>causing a nearly untracable bug
16:56<TrueBrain>yorick: sorry, you don't make sense to me :)
16:57<TrueBrain>(I really said that too often today .. why are people trying to be so cryptic as possible?)
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>and that is news to you? :p
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>after all, it's yorick you're talking about
16:58<Zuu>Ammler: Change your stuff as you like, I'd say, as things are already 'broken', and it's late now I will probably leave my stuff for tomorrow or later when I have time. It's getting quite late. Or at least I'm getting to tired to code.
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>hey, in #mathe it's an art to be as cryptic as possible ;)
16:58<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: not only Yorick is being cryptic today :p
16:58<yorick>but I am always
16:58*TrueBrain gives Zuu some Cooffee :p
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>(usually when giving answers to trivial questions)
16:59*Zuu does not drink it as he has stoped to drink cooffee, but he accepts tea *hint*
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>("there are no answers. every question is met with another question." [Heroes])
17:03<yorick>why do applications always crash without errors if they dont assert or provide errors?
17:04<SpComb>because if they crashed with errors, then they would provide errors
17:05<Ammler>Zuu: you are using to check what is available
17:05<yorick>but why don't they provide errors if they crash without errors?
17:05<Zuu>Ammler: Not yet
17:05<Ammler>we need to tell you what you need.
17:05<@Rubidium>Zuu: <- might be useful
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17:06<@Rubidium>without .txt shows the output
17:07<Zuu>Rubidium: Thank you for that code.
17:08<Ammler>so we use the same format but only one row...
17:10<Zuu>At some point I should probably clean my stuff up, because I use call function by string-name as I did not find any function pointers. Probably faster to use lot of switch-case stuff instead of spliting up into functions.
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>ever heard of polymorphy?
17:11<Zuu>I've never got used to it in php-code.
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, honestly, i have no idea of php
17:12-!-yorick [] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
17:12<Zuu>But then I started at php4 and have not adopted my coding style to php5.
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17:48<TrueBrain>hmm .. Star Wars The Force Unleashed just crashed on my xbox ... now that is nasty :s
17:54<TrueBrain>sometimes tt-forums is so fast, that I don't see it loaded the page :p Hehehhe :)
17:57<guru3>i'm loosing money at exactly 1k per second
17:57<guru3>perfect timing almost
17:58<TrueBrain>concratz ;)
17:58<dih>@seen Zuu
17:58<@DorpsGek>dih: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 45 minutes and 54 seconds ago: <Zuu> But then I started at php4 and have not adopted my coding style to php5.
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18:37<FauxFaux>So, has everyone that has ie7 / ie8b* installed actually tried the new website? It basically hangs IE during load here, and on a friend's machine.
18:38<FauxFaux>(But fine on (plenty of) others, I assume)
18:38<mcbane>mozilla here
18:38<mcbane>and all is ok
18:38<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: I really wonder wtf IE is doing ....
18:38<FauxFaux>Have you seen it? Might be a 8beta issue, but it doesn't happen on machines with 8beta installed.
18:40<TrueBrain>sorry, now you lost me :)
18:40<FauxFaux>Tee hee, /me /sees/ the background draw, line by line, and my machine isn't exactly slow.
18:40<TrueBrain>with what browser? :p
18:40<FauxFaux>(I guess it might be an ie8 beta issue, but someone has ie8 beta installed and isn't seeing it happen)
18:40<FauxFaux>ie8b1 in ie7 mode.
18:40<TrueBrain>well, the background is a 2x2 pixel in repeat (2x2 as 1x1 fails when you do that with IE :p)
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18:41<FauxFaux>I expect 1x1 is failing. :p
18:41<TrueBrain>when you use a 1x1 pixel, IE simply doesn't render it
18:41<TrueBrain>so we use a 2x2 pixel
18:41<TrueBrain>what ever :p
18:41<FauxFaux>Which just kills ie. :p
18:41<TrueBrain>really, if a browser can't handle that ....
18:41<TrueBrain>it should sit in a corner or something
18:42<TrueBrain>IE6.0 is pretty quick via wine
18:42<FauxFaux>It's probably a windows bug, or something.
18:43<FauxFaux>It's actually causing the window manager pain.
18:43<TrueBrain>yeah, it is called Microsoft :p
18:43<TrueBrain>enough bashing against MS :)
18:43<TrueBrain>let me try something .. you have your browser open?
18:43<FauxFaux>Yeah. Give me a minute, I'm just booting some vms.
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18:45<FauxFaux>Does it in my cleanroom Vista vm, IE7.
18:45<TrueBrain>how is the speed now?
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18:47<FauxFaux>That's a lot better, there's still something seriously wrong, though. :/
18:48<FauxFaux>Is there the same kind of thing in the header, by any chance?
18:48<TrueBrain>the header has a repeating image too yes
18:48<TrueBrain>like most of the other places
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18:49<FauxFaux>Crappy IE. :(
18:49<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: now?
18:50<TrueBrain>oh, one more instant
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18:51<FauxFaux>Seems okay, I don't use IE enough to know if it's always that not as awesome as Opera. :)
18:52<TrueBrain>but is the speed in order now?
18:52<FauxFaux>Yeah, it doesn't cause anywhere near as much pain.
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18:52<TrueBrain>so ... IE doesn't like 'repeat' ..
18:52<TrueBrain>repeat-x and repeat-y are fine, but 'repeat' kills it :p
18:53<FauxFaux>I guess it's doing something stupid like actually trying to instance the image each time.
18:53<TrueBrain>most likely :p
18:54<TrueBrain>known IE7 problem ...
18:55<@Rubidium>so you can DOS any IE7 browser with a carefully constructed static webpage...
18:55<TrueBrain>Rubidium: yes
18:56<TrueBrain>create a few divs with a background of a 1x1 pixel on repeat
18:56<TrueBrain>and byebye
18:56<TrueBrain>worth a try, I guess :p
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19:00<Ammler>TrueBrain: no binaries:
19:01<Ammler>you told the "old" binaries will be "taken over" :-)
19:01<TrueBrain>Ammler: did I? Only source archive ...
19:01<TrueBrain>sorry if I informed you other wise :$
19:03<Ammler>isn't the source already in SVN?
19:03-!-Fuco [] has quit [Quit: Quit]
19:03<TrueBrain>yes, nevertheless, we wanted to have a source achive for each nightly
19:04<Ammler>but you keep the nightlies from now on?
19:04<Ammler>the binaries, I mean...
19:04<@Rubidium>only for the last few weeks/months
19:05<TrueBrain>what Rubidium says
19:05<TrueBrain>1 'nightly' is 100 MiB
19:05<TrueBrain>you can only keep so many ;)
19:07<Sacro>use binary diffs
19:09<Ammler>now we have a reason to make a "forced" update
19:10*TrueBrain hates IE .. doesn't obey any rule in the book ..
19:10<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: lies... it obeys at least one
19:10<Nite_Owl>Or we can "vote" for v0.7.0
19:11<Sacro> <-- ooh
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19:12<mcbane>yea +975 r's
19:12<mcbane>old ones
19:13<Ammler>Sacro: can you compile it?
19:13<Sacro>Ammler: no source
19:13<Sacro>oh r1
19:13<Sacro>quite possibly :\
19:13<Ammler>which version is the first also for linux?
19:14<TrueBrain>r1 worked I believe
19:14<@Rubidium>Ammler: I reckon 0.1.4 or thereabouts
19:15<Ammler>hmm, means r1 should work
19:16<Sacro>.1.4 is the first with sauce
19:17<TrueBrain>whoho, fixed most IE abnormalities .. now the background shit ..
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19:19<Ammler>can't compile it
19:20<Ammler>oh, do I see right, you don't use sf anymore
19:21<Ammler>also for stables?
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19:22<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: how is the speed of the website now?
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19:24<FauxFaux>TrueBrain: It's still horribly slow, doesn't actually hang ie anymore, though.
19:25<TrueBrain>I made the images 20x20
19:25<TrueBrain>so that is 100 times bigger
19:25<TrueBrain>and it STILL is slow? Lol
19:25<TrueBrain>IE sucks .. sorry .. out of ideas :)
19:26<Ammler>sorry, me seems blind
19:26<Ammler>can I somewhere get the oldest Linux Build?
19:28<Ammler>0.3.0 has a rpm
19:28<Ammler>everything older s
19:28<Ammler>has no linux build
19:30-!-reldred|gone is now known as reldred
19:32<TrueBrain>FauxFaux: <- how does that scroll? (warning, it might kill your IE :p)
19:33<FauxFaux>Less bad than the original site. =p
19:36<TrueBrain>well, that is suprising :)
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19:37<mcbane>houston is safe but 60 km away it was devastating..
19:38<mcbane>news said.
19:39<Ammler>TrueBrain: why do you use a image, isn't that plain?
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19:40<TrueBrain>Ammler: sorry?
19:43-!-Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox]]
19:45<Ammler>TrueBrain: isn't that background unique?
19:45<Ammler>hmm, how is that called
19:45<Ammler>only one color
19:45<TrueBrain>why oh why are people so cryptic :(
19:45<TrueBrain>Ammler: yes
19:46<Ammler>so why do you use a img?
19:46<TrueBrain>one solid colour in a picture of 20x20
19:46<TrueBrain>and IE has problems rendering it :p
19:46<TrueBrain>Ammler: because browsers are funny things :)
19:46<TrueBrain>not all browsers translate RGB colours to the same CYI colour ..
19:46<TrueBrain>like Opera
19:46<TrueBrain>so when you use a background colour, the differ from the background colour embedded in any image
19:47<TrueBrain>(like 'shadow' images)
19:47<TrueBrain>now we fixed most of those difference, nevertheless they remains slightly in darkness level
19:47<TrueBrain>so this is the only way to make sure it looks perfect
19:48<Ammler>sound more like a hack :-)
19:49<TrueBrain>isn't HTML one big hack? :p
19:49<Ammler>well, you use XHTML
19:49<TrueBrain>well, most things in fact are solved clean .. but it needs .. well .. creative thinking ;)
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19:51<TrueBrain>yeah, I was hoping XHTML was more supported by browsers :)
19:51<TrueBrain>well, it is .. but .. oh well
19:51<TrueBrain>Opera doesn't support all CSS 1 properties
19:51<TrueBrain>to name a simple example
19:51<Ammler>it should at least be the same everywhere
19:51<TrueBrain>yeah, right ...
19:51<TrueBrain>IE 5 doesn't know margin: 0px auto;
19:51<Ammler>those things which are supported
19:51<TrueBrain>the 'hack' used it 'text-align: center'
19:51<Ammler>but the boxes are the same
19:51<TrueBrain>IE doesn't understand what: overflow: hidden, means
19:52<Ammler>that is a big step forwards
19:52<TrueBrain>(somehow he things hidden means VERY VISIBLE)
19:52<TrueBrain>grr .. (sorry, I am REALLY annoyed by all this browser shit, even in the most basic things like CSS1 ...)
19:53<Ammler>how old is that? more then 5 years?
19:53<TrueBrain>like from the beginning of CSS ...
19:53<Ammler>hmm, 5 year is maybe CSS2 then
19:54<TrueBrain>1996, revised in 1999
19:55<TrueBrain>then we have a .nowrap element which is CSS2 with hacks ... to do the overflow: hidden correct (which is CSS2 btw)
19:55<TrueBrain>and a:hover is CSS2
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19:57<Ammler>do you have a "good" css referenz?
19:58<Ammler>something like, but well, in your language?
19:58<SmatZ>TrueBrain is a good css references
19:59<TrueBrain>Ammler: no .. I gathered that minor piece of info from the w3c validation services :p
19:59<TrueBrain>Ammler: and as I learnt HTML (and with that CSS) when I was like .. young (1998 - 2000 sometwhere), I only know CSS1 :p
20:00<TrueBrain>ha, useful table :)
20:00<TrueBrain>no IE5 and IE5.5 ... :p
20:00<Ammler>please, don't support those
20:00<TrueBrain>we do :)
20:00<TrueBrain>it works as well as any other IE :p
20:00<Ammler>I hope not
20:00<TrueBrain>try it ;)
20:01<TrueBrain>the only 'problem' is the download box being too small
20:01<TrueBrain>(and of course it ignoring several CSS1 properties)
20:01<Ammler>I hope, you didn't need time to do it
20:02<Ammler>as it would not be worth
20:02<TrueBrain>only the center
20:02<TrueBrain>well, it is worth it in my mind :) A site that looks identical on all browsers which support CSS :)
20:02<TrueBrain>I mean, come on, that has to count for something ;)
20:02<TrueBrain>people always claim that is not possible ;)
20:02<Ammler>well, has webstatistics
20:03<Ammler>as you trashed sunos because of 0 downloads
20:03<TrueBrain>Ammler: I never said trashed :)
20:03<TrueBrain>it is just a low priority to move over :)
20:03<Ammler>how many ie5 visitors did you have last month?
20:04<TrueBrain>15 today
20:04<TrueBrain>(well, that you didn't expect, did you? :))
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20:04<TrueBrain>26 IE5.5
20:04<Ammler>well, yes, and I don't believe
20:04<TrueBrain>5099 IE6 :)
20:04<Ammler>mostly faked, I guess
20:04<TrueBrain>(unique vistors btw, IP filtered)
20:05<TrueBrain>Ammler: no; Windows 98 users
20:05<TrueBrain>(yes, we do have them)
20:05<TrueBrain>7500 IE7
20:05<TrueBrain>47000 FireFox users
20:05<Ammler>month or day?
20:05<SmatZ>nice :)
20:05<TrueBrain>(that all excluding my IP btw)
20:06<TrueBrain>13/Sep/2008:06:39:50 +0000
20:06<TrueBrain>first etnry
20:06<TrueBrain>ah, tnx Rubidium, I was looking for that :p
20:06-!-reldred is now known as reldred|gone
20:06<TrueBrain>so, Ammler, you still think it is silly? :)
20:06<TrueBrain>OpenTTD has a WEIRD userbase :p
20:06<SmatZ>" Firefox 8.04" what:)
20:06<TrueBrain>does MSIE 1.5 exist? :p
20:06<@Rubidium>SmatZ: most likely Opera 8.04
20:07<TrueBrain> :p
20:07<SmatZ>ahh :)
20:07<TrueBrain>spoofed!! :)
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20:07<TrueBrain>wait, my stats were off .. uniq doesn't sory
20:08<TrueBrain>no, still the same stats for IE
20:08<TrueBrain>160k unique visitors today ...
20:08<Ammler>that is amazing high
20:08<@Rubidium>that doesn't quite make sense
20:09<TrueBrain>that I was telling you
20:09<TrueBrain>ah :)
20:09<TrueBrain>6000 unique visitors, much better
20:09<TrueBrain>( | sort | uniq, not | uniq | sort ;))
20:09<TrueBrain>so: 13 IE5.0, 15 IE5.5, 623 IE6, 955 IE7, 3000 FF
20:09<TrueBrain>today alone
20:10<@Rubidium>although... with ~2000 stable downloads a day from SF...
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20:11<TrueBrain>Rubidium: today alone, 700 stable downlaods via, 300 trunk downloads, of which 133 the latest nightly
20:12<TrueBrain>90% windows ;)
20:14<Ammler>our statistic seems broken
20:14<TrueBrain>I am really suprised so many use < IE5.5 ...
20:14<Ammler>only webalizer:
20:16<Ammler>we have 0 IE user
20:17<Ammler>well, it could also be opera
20:17<@Rubidium>Ammler: really?
20:17<Ammler>it fakes ie
20:18<Ammler>it did it in past at least
20:18<TrueBrain>not IE 5.0 ;)
20:18<@Rubidium>well... #8, #13 and #14 are MSIE
20:19-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:21<TrueBrain>what browser does Sun use?
20:22<TrueBrain>is it only me, or is the new SF website in fact evne more unclear? :p
20:22<Ammler>it is
20:22<TrueBrain>didn't know that was possible ... :p
20:22<Ammler>70% of the web is advertising...
20:24<@Rubidium>Ammler: really? Don't see much advertisement
20:25<Ammler>top banner, 2 side boxes, foot banner
20:25<Ammler>well, might be you are using ugly ad blocker
20:29<@Rubidium>oh, that might be it :)
20:30<TrueBrain>1000 visitors from Sun
20:30<TrueBrain>I should hurry making that target available agani .. :p
20:30<TrueBrain>against 2.2M Windows, and 0.4M Linux btw
20:30<TrueBrain>and 0.15M OSX :)
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20:34<Ammler>starting IE 5.5 takes ages :-)
20:37<TrueBrain>I am trying to fix the links of awstats .. impossible ..
20:37*Ammler is trying with IE3 :P
20:38<SmatZ>does IE<3 exist? never seen that...
20:38<Ammler>lol warning for cookies :-)
20:38<SmatZ>I think I saw IE3 at Win95 once... but were there any older versions?
20:39<Ammler>crashed :-(
20:39<Ammler>I have every old IE here...
20:40<TrueBrain>let us know how the site looks ;)
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20:41<Ammler>was that pre CSS time?
20:41<Ammler>it looks like the page with CSS off
20:43<TrueBrain>well, that should be pretty viewable too ;)
20:45<Ammler>nice skin of ie, btw :-)
20:46<TrueBrain>yeah, it should look exactly like that :)
20:47<Ammler>ie4 did also crash the 1. time
20:47<Brianetta>xhtml 1.0 strict
20:48<TrueBrain>didn't know the word
20:48<TrueBrain>wikipedia can be useful :p
20:49<Ammler>ie4 won't work in my VM
20:49<TrueBrain>I have IE5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 via wine, and I am happy with that ..
20:50<TrueBrain>anyway, good night all
20:52<TrueBrain>lol, who didn't believe me when I said it looked the same, and had to type the url in browsershots? :p
20:52<ccfreak2k>"Microsoft originally released Internet Explorer 1.0 in August 1995 in two packages: at retail in Microsoft Plus! add-on for Windows 95 and via the simultaneous OEM release of Windows 95."
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21:00<Brianetta>'s CSS doesn't validate
21:00<Boyinblue0>It would be very hard to get 100% validated code
21:02<Brianetta>why's that?
21:02<Brianetta>I manage on my web sites
21:02<Brianetta>It's not like CSS has an ambiguous definition
21:03<Boyinblue0>I find it difficult but i'm a noob when it comes to coding :P
21:05<ccfreak2k>Yes, the CSS does indeed seem to be invalid.
21:05<ccfreak2k>No more CSS valid badge.
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21:06<Brianetta>Pikka (:
21:06<Pikka>what are the haps?
21:06<Brianetta>updates industries on my server
21:06<Brianetta>started tai chi
21:07<Brianetta>that's it
21:07<Pikka>how rare
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21:11<Ammler>hmm, how to write a tab with bash?
21:12<Ammler>echo "Hello\tWorld"
21:12<Ammler>doesn't work
21:12<TrueBrain>Ammler: add a real 'tab' ;)
21:12<TrueBrain>Brianetta: did you check on what the validation failed? :)
21:13<TrueBrain>hacks because of some STUPID browsers not supporting overflow: hidden ...
21:13<TrueBrain>so it doesn't count in my book :)
21:13<TrueBrain>no .txt? :p
21:14<TrueBrain>(hehe, just kidding :))
21:14<TrueBrain>oh, bed, yes yes
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21:14<Brianetta>TrueBrain: hacks?
21:15<Brianetta>TrueBrain: If you need hacks, use HTML, not XHTML
21:16<Brianetta>XHTML 1.1 is so pure that IE *can't* view a validated page.
21:16<Brianetta>I love that about it.
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21:33*Belugas !
21:38<@Belugas>like... we both are the only ones still awaken ;)
21:38<@Belugas>did new var gave you joy and happiness, Pikka?
21:39<Brianetta>New var (:
21:39<Brianetta>Is that var available in Patch too?
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21:44<@Belugas>Brianetta, i doubt it has been implemented yet, but it wouldbe failry simple to do, i'd say. Note I have absolutely no idea on how to do in in Patch, to be onest
21:45<Pikka>Belugas: not used it yet, but it will :)
21:47<DaleStan>Belugas: If you mean house var 47, it's in, as of r2020.
21:49<@Belugas>wonderfull, DaleStan :D
21:49<@Belugas>let me know, Pikka!
21:55<Pikka>I will!
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23:53<Tekky>Hi, is there any developer online who is familiar with order_cmd.cpp?
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 14 00:00:07 2008