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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-09-30

---Logopened Tue Sep 30 00:00:07 2008
---Daychanged Tue Sep 30 2008
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00:30<De_Ghosty>so you stack em in a uber dense stacking garage
00:30<De_Ghosty>leave the game on for a year
00:30<De_Ghosty>and you crash it when it gets delievered?
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00:43<Sacro_>hmm, never assume an object is assigned
00:46<Sacro_>This method does not change the value of this DateTime. Instead, a new DateTime is returned whose value is the result of this operation. <- now what is the point of that D:
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03:20<boekabart>good morning
03:21<boekabart>(or other parts of day)
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04:03<Doorslammer>Anyone tell me what version VisualBasic is recommended for programming?
04:03<planetmaker>qbasic found with msdos 5.0 ;)
04:04<Doorslammer>Reason I ask was I found a copy of 5.0 in a charity bin. Should I have left it there? :P
04:04<Sacro>Doorslammer: none
04:05<Doorslammer>Thought that would have been the go. Oh well, back in the bin it goes ;)
04:06<boekabart>Doorslammer: If you want to program VB nowadays, I'd recommend Visual Basic 2008 Express
04:06<boekabart>it's free and 'the latest' :L
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04:07<Doorslammer>Fair enough
04:08*Doorslammer wanders on over
04:09<boekabart>But only do that if you really know basic already and don't want to learn smth else. If you want to learn programming, i'd recommend visual c++ express or visual c# express more: just as free but you'll gain more respect :P
04:09*Rubidium wonders why someone would want to use VisualBasic
04:09*boekabart 'installed' gwbasic last week
04:09<boekabart>... out of masochism
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04:10<boekabart>and for-old-times-sake
04:10*boekabart wonders whether he should tell that he also installed TASM at the same time....
04:12<peter1138>VB 2008 Express is .Net only, isn't it?
04:12<@Rubidium>peter1138: yes
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04:12<peter1138>So it's much better than VB 5 or 6 :D
04:13<peter1138>All of MS's .NET language are pretty much the same, just with slightly different syntactic sugar.
04:14<Doorslammer>As I say, I didn't set out to use VB, I just 'found' it ;)
04:14<peter1138>I'd unfind VB 5...
04:14<@Rubidium>yup... and in all you can create leaky applications ;)
04:15<peter1138>Garbage collection, feh.
04:16<@Rubidium>peter1138: but you can disable the garbage collection
04:16*peter1138 is perfectly capable of creating a leaky application in any language :)
04:17<keyweed>including haskel? and lips?
04:18<Doorslammer>I guess you lot are right. Let's see if some silly sod buys a PC app in a charity op shop :P
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04:32<Eddi|zuHause>i've had 2 line applications in haskell run out of memory ;)
04:32<Eddi|zuHause>granted, i wanted to calculate all prime numbers...
04:32<Eddi|zuHause>and it's not actually leaking ;)
04:33<keyweed>infinity is a bitch.
04:33<Eddi|zuHause>i _could_ have fitted the two lines in one ;)
04:34<keyweed>at the moment i couldn't write a line of haskell if my life depended on it.
04:34<keyweed>and is sincerely hope my life will never depend on a line of haskell code.
04:35<peter1138>Err, yeah... maybe not in all languages :)
04:37<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure one could write a common language interpreter in haskell ;)
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04:38<Eddi|zuHause>back then my haskell skills produced lines like:
04:38<Eddi|zuHause>sieb (n:x) (xs) = (n:z) where (y,z) =(takeWhile (<n*n) xs, sieb (x++y) (filter (\x->x `mod` n /= 0) (drop (length y) (xs))))
04:38<Eddi|zuHause>sieb _ _ = []
04:38<Eddi|zuHause>calculate all primes with:
04:38<Eddi|zuHause>2:sieb [3] [5,7..]
04:39<Eddi|zuHause>(that's the optimised variant :))
04:39<peter1138>Hmm, received a packet of sweets via ebay :o
04:41<Eddi|zuHause>bah... i should have commented my code back then :p
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04:43<Eddi|zuHause> <- someone can tell me what each of these functions do? ;)
04:43<TrueBrain>it's a .... boekabart! NOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo :p
04:44<boekabart>not a, THE
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04:44-!-mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ
04:44<TrueBrain>boekabart: that we don't know for sure of course
04:44<TrueBrain>morning Celestar
04:44<boekabart>TrueBrain: ask nickserv :)
04:45<TrueBrain>nickservs can be hacked
04:45<TrueBrain>but lets go with it,y ou are the boekabart :p
04:46<TrueBrain>in that case: how are you? :)
04:46<TrueBrain>and maybe more important: what brings you here? :p
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04:47<TrueBrain>morning fjb
04:47<boekabart>i'm okay thank you
04:48<boekabart>what brings me here? well.. being in-between-projects at work :)
04:48<TrueBrain>good :)
04:49<boekabart>just taking a look at all my patches - which ones are worth updating
04:50<boekabart>i noticed that in about 550 commits, it's time for cake again :P
04:50<Eddi|zuHause>i have a little cake spare ;)
04:50<TrueBrain>at your place this time,k? :p
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04:52<fjb>At Eddi|zuHause's place? That is not that far from here, I will be there.
04:52<murray>ok see you guys there
04:53*murray runs
04:53<TrueBrain>fjb: no, at boekabart's place
04:53<TrueBrain>try to keep up
04:53<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if you can find my place ;)
04:54<TrueBrain>but fjb, if you pay me the ticket, Eddi|zuHause's house will be fine
04:54<TrueBrain>but as he is always 'to house', I am not sure he has one :p
04:54<Eddi|zuHause>that's a slight mistranslation ;)
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04:55<fjb>If I had the money to pay a ticked I would also visit the party at boekabart's place.
04:55<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: don't you love it? :)
04:55*boekabart wonders what happened
04:56<Eddi|zuHause>which town would boekabart's place be?
04:56<TrueBrain>boekabart: big bala boem!
04:56<TrueBrain>(reference to 5th element, for those who are unknowing)
04:56<peter1138>r14967 is cake-worthy?
04:57-!-Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen
04:57<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's not prime...
04:57<boekabart>I said about. By which I meant of course, r14958 is cakeworthy
04:57<boekabart>(any takers?)
04:58*peter1138 is unaware of the significance of 14958.
04:58<boekabart>15000 - 14958 =
04:58<peter1138>I see.
04:58<peter1138>That's pretty tenuous.
04:59<TrueBrain>far fetched
04:59<Eddi|zuHause>so really... which town?
04:59<boekabart>so, how long does it historically take to make 583 commits?
05:00<TrueBrain>boekabart: it can be done in like 5 minutes
05:00<peter1138>Between 5 days and 5 months.
05:00*boekabart DID write historically
05:01<Eddi|zuHause>tickets seem to be about 100€ for that route
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05:02<Eddi|zuHause>hm... there used to be an option "only regional trains"...
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>hm... that takes 4 hours longer...
05:04<peter1138>Bah, silly Asterisk.
05:04<peter1138>(Or more likely, silly person who administrates Asterisk)
05:04<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: we can also find a place in between
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>if i take the train starting at 12:05 here, it takes 11:19 with 7 transits, or 12:19 with 6 transits...
05:06<peter1138>Hmm, are Seagate Barracudas any good?
05:06<TrueBrain>so you will arrive at midnight :p
05:07<TrueBrain>peter1138: it is seagate ..
05:07<peter1138>That doesn't mean much to me.
05:07<Eddi|zuHause>but it can't tell me the price...
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05:08<TrueBrain>peter1138: it once was very good, then it became crap, and I don't know its current quality
05:08<peter1138>Exactly. I think the same happened to pretty much all of them...
05:09<peter1138>Deskstars were once a big no-no...
05:09<TrueBrain>except WD
05:09<peter1138>Yeah... that dead 120GB drive I spent a week copying? That was a WD :)
05:10<TrueBrain>Western Digital always have been good disks :)
05:10<TrueBrain>bad luck :p
05:11<Eddi|zuHause>"good disks" doesn't mean "never ever fail"
05:12<TrueBrain>very true
05:12<TrueBrain>SMART mostly gives a good indiciation when they will fail :p
05:12<TrueBrain>(but who has a smart monitor enabled these days)
05:13<TrueBrain> 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 085 060 030 Pre-fail Always - 360302903
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05:15<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i could go Halle-Hannover-Bielefeld-Duisburg-Viersen-Venlo-Nijmegen-'s-Hertogenbosch-Eindhoven (11:19) or Halle-Eichenberg-Göttingen-Ottbergen[wth is that?]-Paderborn-Hamm(Westf)-Venlo-Nijmegen-'s-Hertogenbosch-Eindhoven (11:34) ;)
05:15<peter1138> 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0
05:16<Eddi|zuHause>which program can display this smart stuff?
05:16<TrueBrain>lol @ Eddi|zuHause .. maybe you should just stay at home :p
05:16<TrueBrain>we set up a VoIP connection ;)
05:16<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: under linux, smartctl
05:16<peter1138> 9 Power_On_Minutes 0x0032 169 169 000 Old_age Always - 772h+13m
05:16<peter1138>772 hours? That's a lie.
05:16<TrueBrain> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 097 097 000 Old_age Always - 2900
05:16<TrueBrain> 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0003 196 196 021 Pre-fail Always - 5191
05:16<TrueBrain>so I boot my computer once every 2 hours? :p
05:16<TrueBrain>(stats can be so wrong :))
05:17<the_bat>I get new grf with new trains exact it's North American Renewal Set (NARS2) new trains from 1850 to 2050 but when I set the start date to 1850 I can't build train track's what is wrong?
05:17<peter1138>ATA Error Count: 382 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
05:17<TrueBrain>oh wait, it is a remote disk .. possible it does that many spin-ups ..
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05:18<peter1138>Error 382 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 22497 hours (937 days + 9 hours)
05:18<peter1138>That's more like it.
05:18<TrueBrain>peter1138: as long as that number doesn't explode ;)
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>smartmontools... sounds like the right package
05:18<peter1138>Error: ICRC, ABRT at LBA = 0x0365c497 = 57001111
05:19<peter1138>TrueBrain, this is "only" an 80GB, so...
05:19<peter1138>I'm thinking a pair of 500GBs should do.
05:19<peter1138>But clearly not Seagate :p
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have 80GB spare...
05:19<TrueBrain>peter1138: isn't Power_On_NNN the amount of time it is currentyl active?
05:19<peter1138>TrueBrain, nope. That's only 4 days.
05:19<TrueBrain>195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 066 058 000 Old_age Always - 82391501
05:20<peter1138>195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 7702
05:20<TrueBrain>the dedicated server of OpenTTD gives that
05:20<peter1138>Please to be giving us new drives, LeaseWeb?
05:20<TrueBrain>ECC recoveries can also be lazy reads
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05:21<peter1138>Some errors can be caused by a dodgy CDROM drive on the same channel, though.
05:21<TrueBrain>it has nothing to do with the quality of the drive itself
05:21<TrueBrain>there are no read errors or anything
05:21-!-Xerres [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:21<TrueBrain>so doubtful :)
05:22<TrueBrain>but, it is a Seage Barracuda :p
05:22<TrueBrain>anyway, RAID-mirror, both giving ECC recovers :p
05:25<peter1138>Pair of 500GB WDs...
05:25<peter1138>Hmm, can I afford that right now...
05:25<TrueBrain>if you have money, buy the RAID versions of WD
05:25<TrueBrain>much longer lifetime
05:25<peter1138>The good lady, of course, wants a new oven and a new television.
05:25<peter1138>TrueBrain, there's not much listed for PATA drives these days :(
05:26<TrueBrain>nevermind :p
05:26<peter1138>I could fit a SATA card, but...
05:26<peter1138>That's yet more cost.
05:27<TrueBrain>you can also just get a new one in that case :p
05:27<TrueBrain>PATA is fine, depending on what you using it for of course
05:27<peter1138>For my server, of course.
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>Error 8 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 7930 hours (330 days + 10 hours)
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>Error: UNC 3 sectors at LBA = 0x005f783c = 6256700
05:27<peter1138>Mostly idle, I suspect ;)
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>what does that mean?
05:27<TrueBrain>WD5000AAKB <- as good as any other
05:28<peter1138>How did you know what was in the list?
05:28<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: nothing to worry about :)
05:28<TrueBrain>for all those numbers the rule is: as long as they don't explode, don't worry
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05:28<TrueBrain>so if every day you get a new error, don't worry .. when it starts to increase with 100 errors, worry
05:29<TrueBrain>peter1138: I just looked into the available IDE disks for WDs
05:29<peter1138>And run smartd.
05:29<TrueBrain>picked the only 500 GB still available
05:29<peter1138>There's a 750GB Seagate, but that's twice the price of the 500s... and is Seagate.
05:30<TrueBrain>it has a 16 MB cache, so it will run smooth ;)
05:30<TrueBrain>how much do you want to store ;)
05:30<TrueBrain>I manage like 50 servers, non have a storage of > 500 (besides the backup servers)
05:30<TrueBrain>(webhosting btw)
05:30<TrueBrain>when you exceed 500 ... you need a new server :p
05:31<peter1138>I might possibly be storing lots of audio.
05:31<peter1138>Dunno yet.
05:31<peter1138>Oh, and a few OpenTTD checkouts ;)
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>==> WARNING: IBM Deskstar 60GXP drives may need upgraded SMART firmware. <- do i have to worry about those? :p
05:31<TrueBrain>500 GB ... 1 MB per minute
05:31<TrueBrain>@calc 500 * 1000
05:31<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 500000
05:32<TrueBrain>@calc 500 * 1000 / 60 / 60
05:32<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 138.888888889
05:32<TrueBrain>138 hours of music :p
05:32<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I personally wouldn't :p
05:32<peter1138>I'd worry about it being a Deskstar ;)
05:33<Eddi|zuHause>it only holds my windows partition ;)
05:33<peter1138>Oh, then who cares :)
05:34<TrueBrain>hehe @ peter1138 :)
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 12823699 <-?
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>numbers with more than 3 digits scare me...
05:35<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: don't worry :)
05:35<peter1138>Mind you, this 80GB does not have much used...
05:35<keyweed>then don't look at the stock market losses
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 066 033 045 Old_age Always In_the_past 34 (22 97 35 31) <- uh oh
05:36<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: ECC is used for normal operations too, so it is not so much a problem, rather something to speed up reading :p
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 117 099 006 Pre-fail Always - 144292982
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05:37<TrueBrain>see, that value is worriebla :)
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 071 060 030 Pre-fail Always - 13046639
05:37<peter1138>194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 15
05:38<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: seek-error-rate is normal too
05:38<TrueBrain>raw-read-errors on the other hand, are bad ....
05:38<TrueBrain>that indicates the start of the end of the life of a HD
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>that's a seagate btw.
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>and it's my newest drive
05:39<TrueBrain>15 C? Or F?
05:39<Eddi|zuHause>it says Celsius ;)
05:39<peter1138>15F would be a bit insane.
05:39<TrueBrain>true :)
05:40<TrueBrain>15C too
05:40<keyweed>better then 97C
05:40<peter1138>Why is that insane?
05:40<keyweed>how cold is the server room?
05:40<keyweed>for the drive to be 15C the server room needs to be _really_ cold
05:40<peter1138>About 20C on average.
05:40<TrueBrain>peter1138: how to get the room temperate at 15C? :s
05:41<Eddi|zuHause>well, my other drives report stuff like this:
05:41<Eddi|zuHause>194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0002 171 171 000 Old_age Always - 32 (Lifetime Min/Max 11/69)
05:41<TrueBrain>so your disks are cooler then the room ...
05:41<keyweed>so unless you've got a very fancy cooling system i think the temp sensor is bust
05:41<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: always an option is that smart doesn't know the drive it is reading, and misread data :)
05:41<peter1138>CPU1 Temperature | 22.000 | degrees C | ok | na | na | 192.000 | na | na | na
05:42<peter1138>The machine room here has overhead airconditioning.
05:42<TrueBrain>more reasonable
05:42<peter1138>And my server sits in the blast of air from that.
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>it says "In smartctl database"
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>for all drives
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05:42<peter1138>So it has pretty cold air being sucked over the drive.
05:42<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: there are MANY disks .. so mistakes ARE possible :p
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>but it does match my suspicions about the system failures i got in the past
05:44<TrueBrain>really cold .. :p
05:44<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: how useful this channel can be :p
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>i should really send this drive in, but i have no space to put the data on
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>it's as big as all my other drives together...
05:45<TrueBrain>buy a new one
05:45<TrueBrain>70 euros for 500 GB
05:45<Eddi|zuHause>well, i'd still need two of those...
05:45<+tokai>does SmartCtl report actual errors?
05:45<Eddi|zuHause>i bought this 1TB one for 130€ or something, half a year ago
05:45<TrueBrain>in general
05:45<+tokai>maybe try a full selftest if the drive supports it
05:46<+tokai>TrueBrain: my question was not generally meant.. i was wondering if it reports errors for Eddi ;)
05:46<+tokai>btw, MorphOS dies happily if it encounters a bad block ;)
05:47<TrueBrain>ah :)
05:47<TrueBrain>nasty :)
05:47<+tokai>had to replace 2 drives this year
05:48<+tokai>now I'm using a small 2,5" SATA ones. :) silent.. less heat in the case.
05:48<TrueBrain>I just one so far :p But that was because of head crashes
05:48<+tokai>well.. the drives were still working
05:48<+tokai>just both had a bad block each
05:49<+tokai>and the software to mark bad blocks only works on x86 boxes ;)
05:49<TrueBrain>nasty :)
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05:49<TrueBrain>port it ;)
05:49<+tokai>TrueBrain: propritary stuff. no source.. nothing to port:)
05:50<+tokai>the time invested in that would be more worth than buying new drives anyway:)
05:50<TrueBrain>write your own :)
05:50<peter1138>Easier to use a sane OS.
05:50<+tokai>That's no fun.
05:51<peter1138>Oh no! My memory usage has gone up to 2.77% :o
05:51<TrueBrain>peter1138: REBOOT!
05:51<+tokai>I rather drive an oldtimer with new engine than some 0815 car everyone else drives ;)
05:52<peter1138>Hmm, even with caches and buffers taken into account, there is 2.8GB free...
05:52<TrueBrain>nice :)
05:52*tokai pets his 128MB
05:52<peter1138>The server came with 4GB... who am I to argue?
05:53<peter1138>Hmm, I wonder how much that would cost to buy.
05:53<Forked>sheezus. I applied for a new job.. sent the CV in a .txt file (max compatability with plain text, right?) .. WRONG! .. the secretary called me and asked for the CV in a .doc file, since she couldn't open the .txt
05:53<+tokai>Quite a waste IMHO. :) I have no machine with more than 512Mb here:)
05:53*Forked cries
05:53<peter1138>I guess it's DDR, rather than DDR2.
05:54<TrueBrain>poor Forked
05:54<peter1138>Ah, 4GB of ECC DDR is only £120.
05:54<TrueBrain>do you want to work there?
05:54<peter1138>Which, incidentally, is the price I paid for the server.
05:55<Forked>TrueBrain: well it was just the secretary .. most others should know a thing or two considering that they deliver broadband (always-on) by satelite to ships
05:55<+tokai>peter1138: why was it that cheap?
05:55<peter1138>Because it's about 4 years old.
05:55<TrueBrain>lol @ peter1138 :)
05:56<peter1138>And everyone knows a 4 year old server has no use, so they're flogged on ebay.
05:56<peter1138>Or something.
05:56<+tokai>peter1138: ic.. not used to such cases where old hardware gets cheaper... in our market it's the opposite.. the more rare/ harder it gets the higher the prices go ;)
05:57<peter1138>Of course, we're still using P200s in servers here because there is absolutely no need to replace them.
05:58<TrueBrain>if it aint broken, don't fix it :p
05:58<peter1138>Exactly... just back it up in case it does break...
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05:59<peter1138>And then put in a 4 year old server to replace it that is vastly overspecced...
05:59<TrueBrain>up to a few weeks ago, the astronomy center here still used a 486 to do surveys of the sky .. it was working, so why would you replace it :p
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06:00<TrueBrain>but it broke down, so now it is replaced with a p2 or so :p
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06:01<peter1138>One of my mail servers is a Celeron 500...
06:02<peter1138>Never put in 'stop gap' solutions, I tell you.
06:02<TrueBrain>insane :p
06:02<TrueBrain>I never had a Celeron
06:02<TrueBrain>never ..
06:03<peter1138>I used it in a development system for testing out configurations and such like.
06:03<peter1138>Then someone decided it was working fine and turned it into a production system.
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06:04<TrueBrain>nasty ..
06:05<fjb>Are house grfs not working when starting a game in 1830?
06:07<peter1138>smartd[17277]: Device: /dev/hda, SMART Usage Attribute: 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count changed from 151 to 174
06:09<peter1138>fjb: Depends... the house GRF may be geared for starting at 1920.
06:11<fjb>Hm, I will test that. It's the north american building set. Could be that a starting date before 1920 is not intended with that set.
06:11<fjb>What happens if I'm loading two building sets?
06:12<peter1138>Then you get two building sets :)
06:12<fjb>Does one take precedence when new houses are build?
06:14<TrueBrain>why do snooze buttons snooze for 9 minutes .. or 7 ..
06:14<TrueBrain>why never 5 or 10
06:15<@Celestar>I have one that snoozes for 5 (=
06:15<TrueBrain>I WANT IT !
06:15<fjb>Hm, north american building set works when starting 1880... strange.
06:16<Eddi|zuHause>hm... how do i start smartd? when i start it just like that, it exits right away
06:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, after like 3 seconds
06:16<TrueBrain>follow what it says ..
06:17<peter1138>I edited /etc/default/smartmontools, but that's on Debian.
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>it says nothing
06:18<TrueBrain>same here
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>i'm just reading /etc/smartd.conf if i find something interesting there
06:18<peter1138> < Hmm, built-in heatsink?
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>it's set to:
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>DEVICESCAN -d removable -m root@localhost -M exec /usr/lib/smartmontools/smart-notify
06:19<peter1138>Then I started it with /etc/init.d/smartmontools start
06:19<peter1138>smartd[17277]: Device: /dev/hda, SMART Usage Attribute: 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count changed from 174 to 178
06:20<peter1138>Maybe it is about to die after all :p
06:20<fjb>peter1138: Yes, the drive is 2.5" but intended as a 3.5" device. So a heat sink is included as a kind of build in adapter.
06:20<TrueBrain>peter1138: rate is going fast ..
06:20<TrueBrain>(bad english :p)
06:20<peter1138>TrueBrain, I'd say it only started when I started fiddling with smartmontools :p
06:20<Eddi|zuHause> # /etc/init.d/smartd start
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>Starting smartd done
06:21<TrueBrain>peter1138: so shut it down :)
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>how do i check if it really does something?
06:21<peter1138>Check syslog
06:21<peter1138>TrueBrain, then I won't know if it increases ;)
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>dmesg | tail didn't change
06:21<peter1138>dmesg is not syslog
06:22<TrueBrain>peter1138: though luck ;)
06:22<peter1138>fjb, I just hope it comes with the lid :)
06:22<peter1138>Why do they feel the need to show the insides when selling drives?
06:23<peter1138>I wonder if anyone's removed the cover because they thought it should be off, like in the pictures...
06:24<fjb>Because martketing people are thinking that the managers of their customer companies are finding the interior of the drive cute.
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>Sep 30 12:23:54 johannes-i smartd[20072]: Monitoring 0 ATA and 4 SCSI devices
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>Sep 30 12:23:55 johannes-i smartd[20072]: Device: /dev/sdd, 37 Currently unreadable (pending) sectors
06:25<peter1138>DEVICESCAN -m root -M exec /usr/share/smartmontools/smartd-runner
06:25<peter1138>I guess Debian packages it differently, heh...
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>Sep 30 12:23:55 johannes-i smartd[20072]: Device: /dev/sdd, 37 Offline uncorrectable sectors
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>Sep 30 12:23:56 johannes-i smartd[20082]: smartd has fork()ed into background mode. New PID=20082.
06:27<peter1138>Is sdd a real drive?
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's the aforementioned problematic drive
06:27<peter1138>Might be worth a warranty replacement...
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06:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but i have nowhere to put the data in the mean time...
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06:47<peter1138>I shall stop smartd, and start it later. See where there errors are up to...
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06:52<peter1138>Device: /dev/hda, SMART Usage Attribute: 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count changed from 178 to 183
06:52<peter1138>Pom :o
06:52<peter1138>When I run smartctl manually...
06:52<peter1138>199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0008 184 109 000 Old_age Offline - 89
06:52<peter1138>Oh, raw value and value :o
06:53<peter1138>Silly magic values.
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07:03<fjb>How can I get the seed of a running game?
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07:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14418 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIAirport::GetNoiseLeveLIncrease, AITown::GetAllowedNoise, and AITile::GetClosestTown (Yexo)
07:04<fjb>Thank you
07:04<fjb>That command was too abvious...
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07:12<fjb>I hate sdl for always lying about GNU_SOURCE being available.
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>hm... how do i view the packages sent through a tcp connection (on localhost)?
07:15-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:16<fjb>Or more comfotable with wireshark.
07:17-!-sulai [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
07:19<fjb>Interface is usually lo0 for localhost.
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07:21<peter1138>Hmm, I now appear to have Turbo C++ installed :o
07:22*keyweed takes 2 steps back
07:22<peter1138>I wonder what it makes of OpenTTD :D
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07:29<peter1138>Not much, probably ;)
07:30<peter1138>None of the text-GUI stuff I installed works :(
07:30<TrueBrain>would be suprising, that is for sure
07:30<peter1138>Function keys and alt-keypresses generally don't get passed properly.
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07:33<Sacro>frinky winky!
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07:45<peter1138>Bah, boa does not seem to support blah.cgi/foo type parameters...
07:46-!-Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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07:51<Eddi|zuHause>how is that idea "new"?
07:53<ln>Pikita: please consider using apostrophes in your text.
07:53-!-Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:53<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: anything that hasn't been suggested during the last minute will be considered "new" on the forum
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>oh... by that definition... i guess it does pass as "new" ;)
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>and additionally, it is definitely a "descriptive" topic title :p
07:56<TrueBrain>I think it is a nice idea
07:56<TrueBrain>I personally haven't read such idea
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>afaik it has been done in the TTDP section already
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>and i did not dismiss its nicedness ;)
07:58<peter1138>I think it didn't work very well.
07:59<peter1138>People overplayed their slot, argued when a decade was over, or didn't play for weeks.
07:59*peter1138 ponders giving in and installing apache.
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>what's there to argue about? new decade starts at 1st January on every year that ends with 0
08:00<Pikita>Eddi is right
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>you should include that in the game rules ;)
08:00<Pikita>and sorry ln I was pretty wasted when I wrote it :P
08:01<peter1138>I'm only reporting what happened.
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>why does every second thread in the problems section start with "help"?
08:01<Pikita>I will do Eddi, maybe some people should sign up ;) to play see if we can get it to work
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>it does seem fairly redundant ;)
08:03<Pikita>adding rules now :P
08:04<Pikita>there :P
08:06<Pikita>now back to playing my Cindini beta map :P
08:08<TrueBrain>peter1138: don't do it, don't install apache
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08:10<peter1138>How can I make hgweb not rely on path parameters then?
08:10<peter1138>(I don't know the official terminology, heh)
08:11<TrueBrain>peter1138: we hacked hg ....
08:11<keyweed>ow. you're not going for apache.
08:11<TrueBrain>(hgweb is running as daemon)
08:12<peter1138>Some kind of proxy involved?
08:13<peter1138>Hmm, lighttpd
08:15<Sacro_>Eddi|zuHause: new decade starts on 01/01/01 surely
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro_: no, a decade starts x*10 years after game start.
08:16<TrueBrain>peter1138: lighttpd does the proxying
08:16<TrueBrain>lighttpd1.5 allows path-rewrite
08:17<TrueBrain>which in fact might be able to get it to work without modifying hgweb :)
08:17<TrueBrain>(for proxy you can tell it what is should give as script-name, and what as path-info, based on the url you are giving him)
08:18<TrueBrain>(for example, is given to the backend as: script 'website', pathinfo: '/en/news/', to give an example)
08:18<Pikita>anyone else tried out the Cindini beta?
08:18<fjb>What is Cindini?
08:19<Pikita>the map Whopper has spent like 3years making
08:20<fjb>Exe? Doesn't sound to be useful.
08:20<Pikita>its good
08:21<Pikita>dont worry about that Im playing it now no viruses or anything
08:21<TrueBrain>then why is it in an .exe?
08:21<Sacro_>TrueBrain: noob
08:21<Pikita>some licening bulls**t
08:21<TrueBrain>if a person doesn't plan adding a virus, why making it a .exe ..
08:22<Pikita>Truebrain if you scroll down theres just the SCN version too
08:22<Ammler>looks like a map for wwottdgd/3 :-)
08:22<TrueBrain>Pikita: then my interest in the map is down to 0.000000000000000000000
08:22<Pikita>lol Ammler
08:22<Pikita>its a sweet map
08:22<TrueBrain>as someone things he can license his scenario ... I really don't care :)
08:22<TrueBrain>as = when
08:23<Ammler>TrueBrain: i gave up to look on licenses around OpenTTD
08:23<TrueBrain>Ammler: I gave up using anything related to OpenTTD which requires me to look into a license :p
08:24*Ammler just ignores them...
08:24<peter1138>It is a pretty pointless map.
08:24<TrueBrain>licenses is for people who think they are important when they add a license :p
08:24<peter1138>The towns are all fully developed...
08:25<Ammler>oh :-(
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08:25<Pikita>still fun though ;)
08:25<Ammler>you need millions to build a simple station (bribing)
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08:26<Ammler>and a lot of nerves
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08:26<Pikita>its not a map for your style network ammler
08:26<keyweed>and also
08:26<TrueBrain>@kick Guest2432 we dislike guests
08:26-!-Guest2432 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [we dislike guests]
08:26<Ammler>TrueBrain: trees on a developed map?
08:26<Ammler>there might be no free tile to plant a tree.
08:27<TrueBrain>yesterday I Was playing a generated map
08:27<Ammler>(which belongs to the authority)
08:27<TrueBrain>and after a while I noticed something odd
08:27<peter1138>It's also too big. My crappy old slow Core 2 Quad runs it slowly...
08:27<TrueBrain>took me 5 gameyears to notice I siwtched off trees :p
08:30<fjb>Big question remains: What do I do with that exe?
08:30<Pikita>run it lol
08:30<Ammler>doesn't wine handle it?
08:31<Pikita>and Truebrain I did that but with buildings I started a game and was like my GRFs are screwed up
08:31<peter1138>Delete. The .scn is provided further down.
08:31<Pikita>tried 6 diff random games before I realised
08:31<Ammler>maybe someone should tell him, that OTTD saves are already compressed.
08:31<fjb>No wine here. Wine and me don't like each other.
08:33*peter1138 rarely plays above 512x512, so :)
08:33<Ammler>that game would need a ignore authority patch.
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08:37<Ammler>why is the load scenario folder somewhere else then save (per default)?
08:38<ln>Ammler: than
08:39<TrueBrain>because ... savegames are not scenarios?
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08:39<Ammler>TrueBrain: I meant realtive, saves are at ~/openttd/ but scenarios are relative to the binary.
08:43<Ammler>lumber mills in the desert?
08:43<Pikita>im goona start making money now :)
08:43<Pikita>i finally started moving oil
08:43*TrueBrain hits ALT+1
08:44<TrueBrain>you did enable cargodest, I hope?
08:45<peter1138>Buggy cargodest is buggy.
08:45<TrueBrain>well, buggy ..
08:45<TrueBrain>I did find a few bugs, yes
08:45<@Celestar>did you report them? :P
08:45<TrueBrain>but you need to work hard for that :p
08:45<TrueBrain>I told peter1138
08:45<peter1138>I didn't look for their cause either.
08:46<peter1138>Busy doing... other stuff.
08:46<TrueBrain>and peter1138 was not nice to me I telling him
08:46<@Celestar>I'll just wait until peter1138 has fixed them then (=
08:46<TrueBrain>Celestar: main problem I found, was changing orders from 'Do not load' to normal .. then things go wrong :p
08:47<Ammler>nice map, but not sure, if it is playable...
08:49<peter1138>It's easy to play with RVs...
08:51<@Celestar>TrueBrain: you got a sample savegame or something?
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08:52<@Celestar>cuz I cannot seem to reproduce it here
08:52<TrueBrain>Celestar: not really, as reproducing was too easy
08:52<TrueBrain>then gimme one sec
08:52<@Celestar>then tell me how :P
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08:54<planetmaker>holy crap. 5MB for a save :)
08:54<TrueBrain>haha: 164 pax going via unknown station
08:54<TrueBrain>lovely :)
08:55<TrueBrain>Celestar: that savegame works fine .. now remove all 'additions' to the orders of the bus, as in: remove 'unloading' and remove 'loading'
08:56<TrueBrain>it is not identical to the problem above, but it gives 'unknown stations'
08:56<TrueBrain>which I guess is the same cause
08:56<TrueBrain>removing the orders and readding them fixes the problem
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>"rn rr" should generally fix all problems
08:57<@Celestar>TrueBrain: well check
08:57<@Celestar>well I'll check I mean
08:58<Pikita>I want more road parts in OTTD :p
08:58<TrueBrain>:) Let me know if you can reproduce
08:58<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, that sounds like a good solution .. lol :p
08:58<Pikita>like diagnoal roads!
08:59<TrueBrain>I want more money in real life
08:59<Pikita>so do i haha
09:00*Rubidium doesn't necessarily need more money; lower prices are also okay for me
09:00<TrueBrain>lol @ Rubidium
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>i need more pressure, else i won't get anything done...
09:03<TrueBrain>maybe turn on the water, helps some people
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09:10<@Celestar>TrueBrain: nice corner-case you found there :P
09:11<peter1138>Quite a large corner :p
09:11<@Celestar>peter1138: I recommend I'll remove ProcessOrderModification and just remove the entire order list and plug it in again when it is modified.
09:11<TrueBrain>Celestar: tnx :)
09:11<@Celestar>peter1138: no, it only happens when a station could load shit, but there is no unloading order left in the list.
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09:21<@Celestar>TrueBrain: could you try a diff?
09:21<fjb>Oh, that grashopper is a crappy engine...
09:22<TrueBrain>sure, but you can try it yourself too :p
09:22<TrueBrain>I can't do much more then what you do :)
09:22<@Celestar>try that for a mo
09:23<@Celestar>please ;)
09:23<peter1138>Bah, hgwebdir_mod is less featurefull than hgweb_mod :o
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09:23<TrueBrain>peter1138: use them both
09:23<TrueBrain>(one only lists the dirs of hg, the other shows the real data)
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09:25<TrueBrain>Celestar: now when I load the savegame I already have an 'unknown' in it, but that might been already there
09:25<TrueBrain>the rest seems to be working
09:26<peter1138>That may just be because you loaded it. You need to go through the steps again ;)
09:26<TrueBrain>Celestar: when I add the unload and load stuff again, I get Unknown stations again :p
09:26<TrueBrain>they are picked up nevertheless :)
09:27<TrueBrain>oh, no, they just disapear :p
09:27<TrueBrain>well, not in a station where there already is cargo
09:27<TrueBrain>(and still is coming)
09:28<TrueBrain>the most annoying 'feature' of OpenTTD :(
09:28*TrueBrain hits on the patch setting again :p
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>the only problem about non-non-stop is that cargodest does not support it
09:29<TrueBrain>Celestar: besides the weird unknown station, the problem is fixed now :)
09:29<TrueBrain>the only problem with it, is that vehicles stop at wrong stations and unload all cargo
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09:30<TrueBrain>it seems that the algorithm that makes cargo disapear from stations when it is too long there, doesn't do 'old' cargo first ...
09:30<TrueBrain>this 'unknown station' cargo sits here for ever now :)
09:31<@Celestar>it will sit there for some time
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>stuff like that happened to me too... had a station that did not accept passengers anymore, but some were still enroute... and those didn't like cancelling the passenger trains to the station
09:32<TrueBrain>'some time' as in 50 years later it is still there?
09:32<@Celestar>yeah somehow
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>*I* *must* *not* *play* *openttd* *now*
09:32<TrueBrain>from a station where no longer pax are generated, they will go away
09:32<TrueBrain>but all other stations, they will remain there for ever, and there is no way you can fix it ..
09:34<@Celestar>yes: you can move them away (=
09:35<TrueBrain>how? :p
09:35<TrueBrain>they are never picked up
09:35<TrueBrain>else my stations tend to generate more pax then I can carry :)
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>merging src/lang/traditional_chinese.txt failed! <- wtf?
09:36<TrueBrain>Celestar: and I miss a setting to automaticly roll out all +s when you open up a station view .. now I need to press it every time :(
09:36<TrueBrain>the rest CargoDest works very nice :)
09:36<TrueBrain>yuo need to think .. much differently :p
09:36<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: were you translating chinese again?
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09:36<Eddi|zuHause>obviously :p
09:37<@Celestar>TrueBrain: very differently (=
09:37<@Celestar>peter1138: ok I'm removing ProcessOrderModification and revert to using a more crude method (=
09:38<@Celestar>" One train, departing 17:05 from Munich, does not call at Petershausen any more. Deutsche Bahn claimed too high a demand as the reason. " <= that's great. Instead of using more/bigger trains to cope with the demand, we just cancel the service :P
09:38*Celestar shakes his head in utter disbelief
09:38<TrueBrain>Celestar: well, cargodest kicks in, and no more people at Petershausen will want to travel :)
09:38<TrueBrain>hehe :p
09:41<@Celestar>during work days, the rush our trains on that route often exceed 200% load factor :S
09:41<@Celestar>and the DB comes up with no better idea than to cancel services ...
09:42*Celestar thinks someone needs to be put through a wall.
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09:45<Eddi|zuHause>gah... i should prepare a script that makes a clean build and then reapplies any important patches
09:46<TrueBrain>mercurial patch queue, anyone?
09:49<Pikita>I forgot is there someone to make it so industrys never close?
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09:50<Pikita>how :P
09:50<+glx>service them
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>you can modify the industry lifetime via newgrf
09:51<Pikita>link to the newgrf?
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>no link... read the specs, create...
09:52<Pikita>i cant create :(
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>shouldn't be more than one line ;)
09:52<Pikita>one line is still tooo much :P
09:52<Ammler>code it like the PS:
09:53<Ammler>check the LumberMill on tt-forums, if you need a example.
09:53<Pikita>well done Ammler :P you just confused me even more
09:54<Pikita>im getting too much oil :o for my boats to cope with
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>there is a grf to multiply the sizes of boats
09:55<Pikita>i just add more boats haha
09:56<keyweed>eventually you can end up with a staggering amount of oil tankers.
09:57<Pikita>it mainly cause all the oil is getting dumped at the docks quicker than the boats can pick it up and drop it off at the refinery
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>i never had real use of boats
09:58<Pikita>with the Cindini map you need to use em some time
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>the transport income is just too dependent on speed
09:58<keyweed>if you don't use boats, how do you get the oil from the oil rigs?
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>a) don't service oil rigs b) build a station near them :p
09:59<Pikita>just use the on land oil pumps?
09:59<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause cheats!
09:59<Pikita>Eddi income isnt everything ;)
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>no, aesthetics is. and red numbers flowing are not asthetic
10:02<Pikita>i never have red numbers :P
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>you get those easily with transfers
10:02<Pikita>nahh :p
10:02<Pikita>set up an airline
10:02<Pikita>thats where most my income is coming from on my current game :P
10:03-!-sulai [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
10:04<@Celestar>is it me or is wikipedia dead?
10:05-!-ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
10:05<@Rubidium>Celestar: looks like it
10:05<@Rubidium>DMCA takedown?
10:05<ln>if you were dead, it would be highly unusual for you to be writing here.
10:06<@Celestar>some terrorists?
10:06<@Rubidium>na, that MPAA/RIAA act
10:06<@Celestar>yes, that's what I'm saying .. terrorists.
10:07<@Rubidium>hmm, ofcourse... they should be classified as terrorists
10:07<TrueBrain>please do
10:07<@Celestar>little ones :P
10:08<@Celestar>MPAA/RIAA are nothing but petty thugs
10:08<keyweed>hmz. yes. i guess you can build a Dutch style polder towards the oil rig...
10:08<Gekz>we all know this
10:08<keyweed>glad they don't do that irl though
10:12<fjb>I love those horses: :-)
10:14<fjb>Articulated road vehicles are not able to overtake?
10:16<@orudge>fjb loves horses?
10:16<fjb>Yeah, hose power. :-P
10:17<Pikita>hey owen :)
10:17<@orudge>Hello there
10:17<Pikita>how are you :P
10:17<@orudge>I'm well enough, got a list of things to do that I need to actually start doing
10:18<Pikita>same here lol, but its much more fun to play OTTD :p
10:21<Gekz>fjb: what roadset is that?
10:22<Gekz>horses kick ass btw
10:22<Gekz>1837? you are way too leet.
10:22<fjb>North american road set.
10:22<fjb>Hi Belugas
10:23<fjb>Belugas: Be glad that people re nicely playing and not demanding.
10:23<Gekz>hows paxdest?
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10:25<fjb>Cargodest? Nice.
10:27<peter1138>ah, wikipedia now gives an error page.
10:29<@Belugas>fjb, i'd like to be able to just lay down, take the time to actually play it and do nothing else than taht
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10:48<peter1138>Ammler, why are you AmmIer in openttd? :P
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11:00<Gekz>I dont think cargodest would be as good as paxdest
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11:04<TrueBrain>I think Gekz has no idea where he is talking about
11:04<TrueBrain>what ..
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>i concur
11:04<peter1138>I'm hungry
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>i concur
11:05<Gekz>TrueBrain: you killed your own argument :P
11:06<peter1138>tip: passengers are cargo
11:07<Gekz>hmm, i can see how I have been misinterpreted
11:07<TrueBrain>I wonder where I ever gave an argument ..
11:07<@Belugas>well... be precise then :)
11:07<Gekz>what I mean is, having a destination for oil isnt as fun as having a destination for passengers
11:07<TrueBrain>so I repeat:
11:07<Gekz>no TrueBrain
11:07<TrueBrain>I Think Gekz has no idea what he is talking about
11:07<Gekz>I know what my opinion is.
11:07<TrueBrain>judging stuff by the name is most of the time a very bad idea
11:08<TrueBrain>so either get a binary and try it, or stop talking in general :)
11:08<TrueBrain>wow! Amazing .. a person who knows what his opinion is ..
11:08<TrueBrain>you don't see that every day
11:08<Gekz>I even used the wrong tense in my point
11:08<Gekz>it is too early in the morning to try and make a point
11:08<Gekz>TrueBrain: STOP MAKING ME CRY
11:08<TrueBrain>stop talking gibberish
11:08<@Belugas>"I have an opinion and I Respect IT"
11:09*Gekz cries
11:09*TrueBrain gives Gekz a lolly and points him to the corner of the room
11:10<@Belugas>Gekz, in order to give an opinion, one should give reasons in order for all to understand it
11:10<@Belugas>"it's CRAP"
11:10<@Belugas>"well... there is purple on the newgrf"
11:11<TrueBrain>purple, ieuw
11:11*Belugas purples TrueBrain
11:12*Belugas mauves TrueBrain
11:12*Belugas lilas TrueBrain
11:12*TrueBrain moones Belugas
11:12<TrueBrain>that will teach you
11:12*Gekz stabs you all
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11:12-!-Gekz was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [no violence in here!]
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11:13<TrueBrain>Belugas: I was about to do the same
11:13<TrueBrain>really, wtf?
11:13*Gekz bombs your embassy
11:13<TrueBrain>@kban Gekz never EVER again say such things in this channel
11:13-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
11:13-!-Gekz was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [never EVER again say such things in this channel]
11:13<TrueBrain>sick fuck
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11:15<TrueBrain>Ammler: I should have given a time after that kban, not? :) I forgot how to do that ... oh well :p
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11:23<Ammler>well, it might be, you like to unban him again... :-)
11:24<Ammler>then you don't need to keep it in mind.
11:24<TrueBrain>I know .. now I forget it ..
11:24<TrueBrain>like a +q for yorick :p
11:25<Ammler>peter1138: that was a randomly trunkbuild :-)
11:28-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
11:28<@TrueBrain>darn, SSL IRC connections are slow
11:28-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by TrueBrain
11:28-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*@82-171-*-*] by TrueBrain
11:28-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by Belugas
11:28-!-mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
11:28<TrueBrain>hehe, sorry Belugas :)
11:28<@Belugas>no prob :)
11:29<@Belugas>for sure, he is not banned ;)
11:29<Pikita>TrueBrain why dont you stay opped?
11:29<TrueBrain>Pikita: why would I?
11:29<+glx>because it's dangerous for others ;)
11:29<Pikita>dunno lol
11:29<TrueBrain>now I can trap people :p
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11:29<@Belugas>THAT's the reason ^_^
11:30<TrueBrain>Pikita: people tend to talk to you differently when you have a @ in front of your name .. so in big channels I mostly deop myself :p
11:30<+glx>TrueBrain: I do worse as I command the bot silently ;)
11:30<TrueBrain>glx: yeah, and then they blame me :p
11:30<Pikita>i see
11:31-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
11:31-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
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11:53<fjb>Quak frosch123
11:53<frosch123>moin fjb :p
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12:04<mortal`>here we come
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12:12*Belugas goes to lunch
12:12<TrueBrain>lol @ Belugas :)
12:16<fjb>Shit, a well serviced coal mine closes down. :-(
12:17<peter1138>Belugas! :)
12:17<peter1138>Unless it was past its best :p
12:18<@Belugas>past? best? me!
12:20*Belugas had an idea recently about the closing : invest a huge pile of money on an industry, for research reason or else, and that investment will raise production level to decent ones.
12:20<@Belugas>so, at the same time you get rid of your insane pile of profits
12:21<@Belugas>a bit like fund town's road construction and all others alike
12:23<fjb>Sounds interesting.
12:23<fjb>But I'm nor earning that much money in 1844.
12:24<fjb>So that closing down gives me real trouble.
12:24<@Belugas>that is your problem ^_^
12:24<TrueBrain>1844 ... lol
12:24<@Belugas>i have to say, it's peasant to see games happening before 1920 for a change
12:24<fjb>And only 5% of the coal were transported yet. So I don't see why it closes down.
12:25<fjb>Station rating was also abouve 75%
12:25<peter1138>hmm, who sells low power servers?
12:30<peter1138>hmm, i can't see any power consumption figures :o
12:35-!-peter1138 [~petern@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:40<fjb>Power loss on Peter?
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12:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r14419 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: adding two digits for no obvious reason (nor comment), plus code style Infringement.
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13:13<@Belugas>correction : it's not ALWAYS fun do deal with GUI and widgets
13:15<+glx>it's never fun indeed ;)
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13:17<frosch123> <- I cannot imagine a more realistic screenshot than the second in this post
13:17<Lakie>Well, most of the time its ok, Belugas.
13:18<Lakie>Heh, do canals have graphics for the other climates/
13:18<frosch123>actually the screenshot contains a nice metaphor :)
13:19<frosch123>but maybe it only works in german
13:20<frosch123>camels are also called desert-ships
13:20<@peter1138>Lakie, ours don't. The Action 3/2/1 version does, I believe.
13:20<Lakie>I ee
13:21<Lakie>see*, ok
13:27<@Belugas>Lakie, glx : it's ok as long as you kow your widgets, but as soon as one is using new stuff (or stuff he does not know), it's a different story :)
13:27<@Belugas>so i'm learning
13:28<+glx>Belugas: you are not talking about OTTD GUI I guess ;)
13:28<Lakie>Try that whilst fixing the sidget's fundimental workings
13:28<@Belugas>yes, glx, do, for a certain object project ;)
13:29<@Belugas>but that was during my lunch break, which is over now :(
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13:37<TrueBrain>hi Wolf01 :)
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13:40<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> camels are also called desert-ships <- it actually goes even further than that... "sahel" means "coast line" (the sahel zone is the border of the sahara desert)
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>and the sahara is ocasionally called "sea without water"
13:40<@Belugas>i'm impressed
13:40<@Belugas>hello Wolf01
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13:44<frosch123>"sahel zone" reminds me of very boring lessons at school
13:45<@Belugas>yeah... i guess that was a very "Dry" subject ^_^
13:46<frosch123>it was that "5% means every fifth"-teacher
13:47<Prof_Frink>frosch123: Well, 10% means every tenth, so that's fair enough ;)
13:48<@Belugas>at least, it was not teeth
13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14420 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt simplified_chinese.txt swedish.txt):
13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-09-30 17:50:15
13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 3 fixed, 1 changed by alyr (4)
13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 122 fixed, 2 changed by ww9980 (124)
13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: swedish - 1 fixed by ChrillDeVille (1)
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13:50<Eddi|zuHause>"when are you people getting this! two halves are always exactly the same size! the bigger half of you got that wrong again!"
13:51<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: the bigger half of people doesn't agree with you
13:51<frosch123>usually it is more like "both legs are of equal length, especially the left"
13:52<Prof_Frink>Some are more equal than others, eh?
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13:56<TrueBrain>frosch123: we have a joke about that here in the Netherlands: "Why is a bird?" "Because his left leg is of equal length" (bad translated :p)
13:57<Prof_Frink>orudge: What are birds?
13:57<@orudge>We just don't know.
13:58<@Bjarni>"lost in translation"
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>at night it's colder than outside.
14:00<@Belugas>"what are there migratory birds? Birds that scratch half their body" french joke VERY badly translated
14:00<+glx>untranslatable ;)
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14:01<@Bjarni>if you like, then I can start telling untranslateable jokes too
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>"Ich war einmal bei den Singvögeln. Aber dann haben sie sich zerstritten, die einen wollten nur noch singen, und die anderen ..." [I won't even attempt to translate that...]
14:04<@Belugas>party breaker :S
14:05<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: you might try to construct a similiar joke with "bugreport"
14:05<mortal>belugas, source on that french joke?
14:06<TrueBrain>if you like, I can ban your ass out of here? :) :)
14:06<@Belugas>that joke is ld as the world :S
14:06<Wolf01>"You are not authorised to read this forum." you are not WHAT?
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: as in "untranslated version"
14:07<mortal>yeah, in its original lanugage
14:07<mortal>yes, what eddi said :)
14:07<Wolf01>I'm authoriset to do everything
14:07<mortal>respect Wolf01's authoritah
14:07<TrueBrain>Wolf01: it seems the forum doesn't agree with you there
14:07<mortal>forum as in every other member in it
14:07<@Belugas>ho... mortal: "Qu'est-ce qu'un oiseau migrateur? UN oiseau qui se gratte sur la moitie du corp"
14:08<mortal>doesn't agree as in would rather start a flamewar
14:08<mortal>ba-dum *tch*, belugas
14:08<Wolf01>TrueBrain, then why the forum wanted to show me a reply and I can't see it?
14:09<@Belugas>strat spourt to you to, mortal
14:09<mortal>wolf01, the forum software thought it wanted to show you the reply, but changed its mind.
14:09<TrueBrain>Wolf01: don't ask me, I am not the forum replying you :)
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm... my french would definitely not be good enough to get that kind of joke (if you hadn't told us) :p
14:10<@Belugas>migrateur -> mi - gratteur -> demi - gratteur
14:10<@Belugas>half - scratching
14:11<mortal>eddi, me too
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes, now i know ;)
14:11<mortal>yum, tomatoes, carrots and some chicken, awesome dinner
14:14<Wolf01>Oh now I understood it :D
14:14<@peter1138>rtc: lost 1 interrupts
14:14<@peter1138>I wonder what that actually means :p
14:15<TrueBrain>it went out to play :)
14:16<@peter1138>I see...
14:16<@peter1138>Hmm, second drive is hdb... that's not so good.
14:16<@peter1138>I guess i'll have to shuffle the cables around some how... or live with a mirror on one channel.
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14:19<@SmatZ>@seen Celestar
14:19<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Celestar was last seen in #openttd 4 hours, 11 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <Celestar> MPAA/RIAA are nothing but petty thugs
14:19<@SmatZ>mmm missed him :-(
14:22<@peter1138>smartd[2280]: Device: /dev/hda, SMART Usage Attribute: 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count c
14:22<@peter1138>hanged from 199 to 163
14:22<@peter1138>It goes down too!
14:23<@SmatZ>or it overflowed :)
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14:39<Wolf01>damn.. making the graphic board working on ubuntu is hard...
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14:52<@Belugas>hehe now, try to make ubunto board the graphic would be even harder!
14:54<Wolf01>shhh.. those stupid graphics drivers wont let me to play games which aren't the ones which come by default
14:55<@peter1138>Hmm, with hg, how can I add a directory, but not the contents of it?
14:56<TrueBrain>move content
14:57<TrueBrain>move content back
14:57<TrueBrain>(I am very lazy when it comes to those things :))
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14:57<Baem>hi all
14:58<Baem>i want to set up some servers, where is much demand for?
14:59<jpm>I would like to have couple of servers here...
14:59<@Belugas>you might want to rephrase that, Baem
14:59<@Belugas>makes very little sens
14:59<@Belugas>"where is much demand for?" <----- huu????
14:59<Baem>which server do the users demand?
15:00<@Belugas>well... the attractive ones
15:00<Baem>like big maps etc
15:00<@Belugas>the good combination of grfs
15:00<Baem>i mean the settings etc
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>the maps shouldn't be too big
15:00<@Belugas>the cliamte they like the most
15:00<Baem>i did saw a grf theme pack is that okay?
15:01<Baem>or just these generic things
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes, you should take grfs from the pack, because those are the easiest to get. but you should make a good selection from those, you can't just throw them all in
15:02<Baem>hmm i think i start with the normal thing
15:02<@Belugas>the idea, though, is to have one set of settings that will be reflecting smething, like a theme
15:02<Baem>other tipps ? i have very much ram and cpu power left on my server :D
15:02<@Belugas>like... UKRS stuff...
15:03<Baem>i never saw a such server
15:03<@Belugas>or canadian set ....
15:03<@Belugas>peter1138 had such a server a while ago
15:03<@Belugas>OK, not can
15:06<Baem>i get back later . need to install first
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15:17*Belugas is pulsating on "Corona Radiata" from NIN
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15:27<+glx>Belugas: take another cofee ;)
15:28<@Belugas>At this time of day? doubtfull... but thanks for the idea :D
15:34<@peter1138>I had a NARS2 server..
15:34<@peter1138>Only Pikka and I played on that one.
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15:41<Eddi|zuHause>that's one of the main problems currently... on average, there are more servers than players
15:42<Yexo>Baem: so there you have what is most wanted: more users
15:42<Zuu>Do you think it is a big limitation to have widget focus? The main change would be that you can deselect text-inpbut boxes, and therefore need to select them again. For example new landscape/game window, if you click on a button the text-input will get unselected and you then need to click on the text-input widget before you can type.
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15:43<Zuu>The main gain with widget focus is that many windows that have text inputs can be open at the same time and you can select which text-input to type into.
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15:44<Zuu> if you want to try it live.
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>the main problem that i can see are hotkeys... not all windows catch all hotkeys, so you'd have to propagate the hotkeys down a "focus priority" list
15:48<Zuu>The hotkeys are propagated as usual. Only when a text-input has focus it will steal the key-input.
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15:53<Zuu>In the patch above I've focused the text-inputs of existing windows that have text-input widgets for easy of use. But still it is a significant change of GUI behaviour.
15:53<mortal``>...the mortals will rise?
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16:07*Belugas refuses to read Zuu's patch right now. Might give it a good read tonigh though
16:09<Zuu>Belugas: Ok, it is not 100% ready as I've only worked on it for one session. I found out that the network-message-window for example raises an assertion when you press the 't' key when the TextEdit widget does not have focus.
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16:13<@Belugas>ho... ok
16:16<Zuu>Main question is if to use a pointer to the focused widget or use widget id I think. I currently use a pointer, which has the draw back of that when you need the ID you have too loop through all widget of the window to get the ID. On the other hand it is common to want to access the widget class, and having to use the ID in the widget-arary gives quite much more code. And also the pointer at some situations is equal to zero. B
16:16<Zuu>ut widget id = 0 is the first widget. It is long time since I looked on the code honestly, so I don't remmeber if the ID is unsigned or not.
16:19<Zuu>Belugas: I mean it is kind of you if you want to read through it but considering that code need to be looked at many times before it is ready I just wanted to inform you what to expect.
16:22*Belugas grabs above mentionned text, prints out and will read it later
16:22<@Belugas>i'm still buzy at work
16:22<Zuu>Ah ok, that is perfectly fine.
16:23<@peter1138>Loop? Only if you've not heard of pointer arithmetic ;)
16:23<@peter1138>(It is an array, isn't it?)
16:23<Zuu>Yes, oh yea you are right. :)
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16:24<Zuu>It is an array.
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16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14421 /trunk/src/ (158 files in 10 dirs): -Codechange: rename all player variables/types to company *or* client so it is immediatelly clear which one you are working with.
16:42<@peter1138>Mmm, all though conflicting patches :D
16:43<TrueBrain>a very big patch killer :p
16:43<TrueBrain>but .. about time it was done :)
16:44<@peter1138>Bah, eyes giving in
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>that was discussed many times, but i didn't expect it to actually be done ;) great job ;)
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16:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14422 /trunk/ (118 files in 9 dirs): -Codechange: also reflect the changes of r14421 in the filenames.
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17:03<planetmaker>Thanks Rubidium, that's a nice commit (r14421+2) :)
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>you are thanking for a commit that has not been made yet?
17:08<mcbane>the + is maybe a /
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17:10<@SmatZ>r7210 ?
17:10<@SmatZ>@openttd commit 7210
17:10<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by KUDr :: r7210 /trunk/yapf (4 files) (2006-11-18 19:20:47 UTC)
17:10<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -CodeChange: [YAPF] the global cache object is now not destroyed/recreated whenever the cache is invalidated. It now supports Flush() method that is used instead. It should also fix mem-leak warning produced by valgrind (Tron)
17:12<@peter1138>Uh oh...
17:13<@SmatZ>ok bad joke
17:14<@SmatZ>I often do bad jokes...
17:14<@peter1138>Oh :p
17:14*peter1138 sighs
17:14<@peter1138>Good night.
17:14<Baem>server runs now ... tuning tomorrow ..
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17:14<@SmatZ>nn peter1138
17:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14423 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: also do r14221 for the strings.
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17:58<TrueBrain>ngiht Wolf01
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18:13<planetmaker>what am I doing wrong?: hg clone
18:13<planetmaker>destination directory:
18:13<planetmaker>abort: '' does not appear to be an hg repository!
18:13<TrueBrain>you can't clone everything
18:13<TrueBrain>you need to be a tiny bit more specific
18:14<planetmaker> ./trunk or so?
18:14<planetmaker>because adding trunk to the URL gives me 404
18:14<TrueBrain>sounds like a plan
18:14<planetmaker>ah :)
18:15<Yexo>see also:
18:15<TrueBrain>you might just want to visit the url
18:15<@Rubidium>planetmaker: open in your browser and make an educated guess
18:15<TrueBrain>and see what it does in your browser
18:15<TrueBrain>(the http part should have given that way :p)
18:15<TrueBrain>Yexo: yeah, openttd/ ;))
18:16<planetmaker>he, yeah, got it Rubidium :) Thx
18:16<planetmaker>May I propose to add this hint to the development page of openttd where the hg repo is announced?
18:17<TrueBrain>most people are 'clever' enough to press the link :)
18:17*planetmaker should probably get some sleep then :)
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18:18<TrueBrain>sleep well :)
18:18<planetmaker>yeah, good night and thanks for putting my nose on the obvious :)
18:19<TrueBrain>any time my friend, any time :)
18:20<planetmaker>testing how to work with hg will then commence tomorrow :)
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18:29<fjb>Good morning.
18:29<TrueBrain>in what world?
18:30<fjb>In Germany.
18:30<Prof_Frink>[23:29:59] < fjb> 0:29
18:30<Prof_Frink>fjb: We won.
18:31<fjb>What news happened yesterday evening?
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18:41<Eddi|zuHause>"player" got renamed to "company"/"client" where appropriate, if that is what you mean ;)
18:46<fjb>So I'm not a player anymore, I'm a company now?
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>no, you're a client
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>company:client is one-to-many
18:49<fjb>So I'm a client, but I have no lawyer.
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>that is entirely your problem :p
18:50<Pikita> TrueBrain
18:50<fjb>So I'm having a problem now. That is bad news.
18:50<Pikita>do you like chips
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20:16<Pikita>wooo 2 people signed up for my idea now :
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20:25<Metalcore>I'm one >_>
20:25*Metalcore == lilman424
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20:34<Pikita>Metalcore find more people :P
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23:03<ccfreak2k> Bug?
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 01 00:00:07 2008