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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-10-26

---Logopened Sun Oct 26 00:00:58 2008
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07:25<TrueBrain>Welcome to CET :)
07:26<dih>oh yeah... forgot about that
07:26<TrueBrain>how can you forget that? :)
07:27<TrueBrain>So you walked into church an hour early? :)
07:28<TrueBrain>Good day all :)
07:29*TrueBrain is gone for a few hours ... :)
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07:33<scarabeus>TrueBrain: damn
07:34<scarabeus>i wanted to speak with ya
07:34<scarabeus>so later ;]
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07:44<dih>TrueBrain, no - there was no church here this morning :-P
07:44<dih>i am going this evening to the brazilian service
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>how can you forget that? you have NTP and whatnot...
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07:50<dih>yeah - funkuhren
07:51<dih>nothing to even notice anymore unless you happen to be awake and glaring at your clock at 2.59 am
07:51<@Rubidium>nothing interesting happened this night when I was watching the clock as 2.59 AM CET ;)
07:53<dih>i did that once - that was sooo funny - we had a party and i looked at the clock and it said 2.50 am so i get people together to watch it swtich to 2.00 am again.....
07:53<dih>well - it was CET already :-D
07:54<dih>(i did not wake anybody up - it was at a party :-P)
07:56<Zuu>Good job dih :-)
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>you are a hero ;)
08:02<@Rubidium>I am? :)
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08:54<TrueBrain>scarabeus: here now :)
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09:29<CIA-5>OpenTTD: * r14537 /: [NoAI] -Fix: bug while loading a game under some compilers.. this cast seems to help (Yexo)
09:30<Eddi|zuHause2>did CIA-5 just forget the username and files?
09:31<yorick>yes, it did
09:31<Eddi|zuHause2>@openttd commit 14537
09:31<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: Commit by truebrain :: r14537 branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp (2008-10-26 13:26:23 UTC)
09:31<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: [NoAI] -Fix: bug while loading a game under some compilers.. this cast seems to help (Yexo)
09:32<FauxFaux>Changed lines: 0. Heh.
09:35<Yexo>nice huh? fixing something without changing a single line? :p
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09:45<Swallow>In this code: If (statement1 || statement2) {..} ...
09:45<Swallow>Is statement2 executed if statement1 evaluates to true?
09:46<Yexo>at least not in c / c++
09:46<Swallow>Ok, thanks
09:47<Eddi|zuHause2>i think the pascal standard said it is, but most compilers had an option to change that
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09:49<Yexo>IIRC it is executed in pascal indeed
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09:52<TrueBrain>who knows a good MSN client for linux?
09:53<yorick>pidgin *O*
09:54<murray>amsn is decent imo
09:55<TrueBrain>amsn fails on utf-8 here, and it doesn't have 'status messages'
09:55<TrueBrain>which is rather annoying ;)
09:56<TrueBrain>kmess fails to do auto-away ..
09:56-!-Char [] has joined #openttd
09:56<Char>hi there
09:56<TrueBrain>pidgin gives me a writting error :(
09:56<Char>thats a load of people hanging around here
09:56<Char>i wasnt aware there is still so many people actually playing this game....
09:57<frosch123>who said anyone is playing in here?
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09:57<Eddi|zuHause2>it's worse, they keep getting more and more...
09:57<Char>and that is bad?
09:57<Char>well, i figured if you hang around here, than you are at least interested....
09:57<Char>i am trying to re-start after i played occasionally in the last years
09:58<Char>started playin back when there was no ttd, but only tt ;)
09:59<Char>and now i wonder whats a good place to start
10:00<Eddi|zuHause2>traditionally, a town or industry ;)
10:01*FauxFaux lurks.
10:02<yorick>TrueBrain: and you give up after a "writting" error?
10:02<Char>kinda good idea i guess
10:03<Char>still i got some questions
10:03<Char>do you play with breakdowns active? seems to be very prone to causing traffic jams
10:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i never play with breakdowns
10:03<Alberth>some do, others don't
10:04<Char>do you?
10:04<Alberth>some times :) I find it fun to make the network robust against break downs
10:05<dih>Char, there are settings and everybody plays with them set the same way! duh
10:05<Char>and - if playing with breakdowns, is there any reasonable way to stop broken down trains from blocking all following trains?
10:05<dih>everybody has a certain flavor
10:05<Char>dih: well thanks, i was aware of that
10:05<dih>you have depot lines so trains can service
10:05<Alberth>Char: add another track next to it so trains can switch
10:05<dih>you run double main lines and add options for overtaking
10:06<TrueBrain>yorick: pidgin has same problem: I can't change both my names that simple
10:06<dih>and hope that no 2 trains breack down next to eachother
10:06<Char>i am not yet so advanced as to have one main line on the whole map ;)
10:06<dih>nobody said that
10:06<Char>cause in TT original, it was kinda impossible to build a mainline
10:06<dih>just double your lines and add overtaking
10:06<Alberth>Char: neither am I, and I may never reach that point. On the other hand, it is not a requirement for playing OpenTTD ;)
10:07<Char>with some kind of fancy pre-signal setup and path-based signalling?
10:07<dih>Char, why was it impossible?
10:07<dih>pre-signals, are enough
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10:07<Char>cause there were no pre-signals and the pathfinding routine was kindof crappy
10:07<dih>but you dont have to have presignals
10:07<Char>trains got lost if you had a too complex railway system
10:07<Char>did you ever play it?
10:07<Alberth>Char: I played with basic signals for years
10:08<Char>in the first versions, you could not even have one-way signals iirc
10:08<Alberth>Char: I started with TTDX
10:08<dih>same here
10:08<Char>yeah, well, i started with TT non-deluxe i guess
10:09<dih>well - then learn
10:09<Char>yeah of course ;)
10:09<dih> <- has some nice huge examples too
10:09<Char>oh, like, savegames?
10:09<Eddi|zuHause2>i played TT non-deluxe for years before i even learned about the existance of one-way signals in a newer version
10:10<Char>yeah, and i remember getting the pre-signals and i was like WOHOOO
10:10<Char>cause it enabled so much more fancy track layouts
10:10<Alberth>Char: savegames, strategies for building large networks, junction layouts, track priority, and many other advanced stuff
10:11<Char>and.... i mean, in the beginning you have a problem with very low funds. so you start and build one or two profitable lines and then start to build the really big linse?
10:11<Eddi|zuHause2>that's the general twist of the game, yes ;)
10:12<Alberth>I actually don't play that much, I am more digging and modifying source code. Also, I never seem to get past 1970 or so :)
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10:13<Eddi|zuHause2>Alberth: that's the fault of the daylength patch usually ;)
10:14<Alberth>And I don't even use that!!
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10:14<Alberth>1 day can then be longer than ~7 seconds
10:15<Char>much to learn i guess
10:15<Char>openttd has become so complicated that it is kindof hard to get a grasp now
10:15<Alberth>yeah, you need to practice a lot! :)
10:16<planetmaker> <-- Char: a savegame repository
10:16<Char>and now i wonder how and where to start
10:16<Char>using which patches and options and so on
10:16<Char>planetmaker: thx :)
10:16<dih>no patches, just options
10:16<planetmaker>or settings :)
10:17<dih>you can change them in-game too
10:17<dih>so if you dont like a certain behaviour - you can fiddle with the advanced settings until you like it
10:17<Alberth>basic strategy: start with defaults, and when getting anoyed at something find out how to change it to your liking
10:18<dih>+ has a great user guid
10:18<planetmaker>e.g. apply the usual approach :)
10:18<dih>read that when you need something
10:22<Char>but some of the new add-on stuff looks so nice
10:22<Char>that i would like to try it immediately :P
10:22<Char>for example
10:23<Char>the industry vectors
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10:26<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't like ECS
10:26<Eddi|zuHause2>i prefer PBI
10:27<planetmaker>Char: go right ahead, they don't hurt. Though starting with any new industry makes things indeed more complicated; I'd advise to use them only in the 2nd.
10:28<planetmaker>any other grfs don't change too much the way the game works, so any other is fine for the first game.
10:29<planetmaker>Mind to stick to "reasonable" combinations :) - not two of the same kind.
10:31<dih>just not - grf's are sensitive to loading order and other grf's
10:31<dih>i.e. some grf's dont go with others
10:31<dih>and some grf's must be loaded before / after others
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10:38<Char>whats PBI?
10:44<Alberth>Assuming it is another form of industries, I think it is Pikka's Basic Industries
10:44<Alberth>Never played with it though
10:44<welshdragon>it's a good compliment to Industrial Statoons renewal
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10:45<welshdragon>and the (E)GRVTS
10:48<rortom>hi all
10:48<rortom>whats the status of paxdest?
10:49<Alberth>we have cargodest nowadays
10:49<DJNekkid>question to devs: what format is variable 0E of the vehicle array in openttd? (ref
10:49<Alberth>it is still a branch
10:50<rortom>hows the branch called?
10:50<Alberth>cargodest, obviously, see the dev forum
10:51<rortom>ok, thx
10:51<Char>are most of you guys here more the developers than the actual players?
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10:52<rortom>no cargodest ->
10:52<Alberth>we don't have yet 107 developers :)
10:53<frosch123>DJNekkid: not implemented, and quite pointless anyway
10:54<rortom>hg D:
10:56<DJNekkid>frosch123: oh ... well, you see, im trying make a airplaneset where the planes have a "range" ... created with a CB36 that slow down the plane when it's not within the range of itself
10:58<frosch123>well, the variable has the same problem as all variables that refer to tiles. They are 16 bit (0xYYXX) in TTD, while they are 32 bit in OTTD (format depending on map size)
10:58<frosch123>btw. you encounter the same problem when you want to test the position of the aircraft
10:58<Sacro>DJNekkid: how can a plane not be in range of itself?
10:59<scarabeus>TrueBrain: well i have broken quassel i see only white text
10:59<scarabeus>which is really cool
10:59<scarabeus>so are you still here?
11:00<DJNekkid>frosch123: i dont have any problem yet, as i've not tried to code anything yet, i'm just looking into the posibilities right now
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11:00<DJNekkid>Sacro: well, in range of the target airport
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11:09<scarabeus>TrueBrain: ok i am going to shop so i will be here in about 1 hour
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11:58<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r14538 /branches/noai/src/company_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r10350): loading of non-noai savegames with version >=69 was broken
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12:09<scarabeus>TrueBrain: ping?
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12:22<TrueBrain>scarabeus: the general rule applies: leave what you want to leave, I will be here sooner or later ;) Else PM me :) As I am now gone again for a few :)
12:23<scarabeus>well i just wanted to ask if you want to update somehow ebuild in the tree
12:23<scarabeus>nothing more
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12:26<TrueBrain>oh, most likely :p
12:26<TrueBrain>as you forgot a few things ;)
12:26<TrueBrain>but I need to update a few things first :)
12:26<TrueBrain>shall I email you an update when I have one?
12:27<scarabeus>would be fine
12:27<yorick>there shouldn't be spammerbots here
12:27<scarabeus>thisone is generic blocker :]
12:27<frosch123>yorick: type !logs
12:27<yorick>is he the spammerbots?
12:28<TrueBrain>k, tnx scarabeus :)
12:29<+glx>yorick: indirectly
12:30<yorick>bad spcomb!
12:30<+glx>logs available on http is a good help for spammers
12:30<yorick>you have spammerbots at the logs
12:30<TrueBrain>and google allowing eregs to browse the web... finishes the job
12:32<+glx>I even saw google bot looking in my IIS
12:32<+glx>(I didn't have robots.txt)
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13:08<NukeBuster>why is the dynamite tool on the road vehicles toolbar different from the landscaping toolbar?
13:09<NukeBuster>*from the one on the landscaping toolbar?
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13:11<yorick>is it?
13:12<NukeBuster>yeah apperantly
13:12<NukeBuster>I'm busy on the diagonal clearing patch
13:12<Zuu>They look the same here on the sprites.
13:12<yorick>what's different about it?
13:13<NukeBuster>well i f*ked 1 of the 2 up
13:13<NukeBuster>and not sure where to find the road tool part
13:13<NukeBuster>because the one on the landscaping toolbar is working fine
13:17<Zuu>By the way when I compile trunk r14536 in MSVS, the key to fast forward becomes the SHIFT-key, not the TAB-key as usual. I first though I had mixed something up in my widget focus patch, but even when compiling trunk SHIFT become the fast forward key. Can't find any notice about any such change in SVN trunk. And the last win32 nightly (r14531) from compile farm have TAB for fast forward, as usual.
13:18<NukeBuster>a new config setting?
13:18<Zuu>I will make a new trunk checkout to make sure I absolutely not have altered anything. (did made an SVN revert of my usual trunk, but clean checkout may differ)
13:18<@Rubidium>Zuu: make a release build
13:18<Zuu>Rubidium: Ok
13:18<Zuu>Rubidium: Is it a know problem?
13:18<@petern>it's a feautre
13:18<@Rubidium>it's a feature
13:18<Zuu>A feature of the debug releases to use Shift?
13:19<@Rubidium>so you can better time your fast forwards
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13:22<+glx>Zuu: when debugging you often use alt-tab
13:22<Zuu>When writing text I sometimes use shift key :)
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13:26<NukeBuster>Yorick, the road tool has it's own drag/mouseup/click handling. And thats what I messed up.
13:27<NukeBuster>still strange that it influenced the behavior of the tool though
13:28<Eddi|zuHause2>you might want to unify these tools
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15:36<Char>got a question
15:36<Char>if i use the openttdcoop newGRF package
15:37<Char>and i am not playing on a server
15:37<Char>do i have to switch it on somehow?
15:37<frosch123>only when you create the server
15:38<yorick>or start a singleplayer game
15:38<frosch123>oh, you said you were not playing on a server :s
15:38<frosch123>well, in main menu there is some "newgrf" button, were you can add newgrfs
15:39<Char>i want to start a singleplayer game
15:39<frosch123>but do not add to much you do not know
15:39<Char>since i guess that i am not yet .... well ... suited to play on a server
15:39<Char>i know none of the GRFS to be exact ;)
15:39<yorick>you can always watch
15:41<Char>watch what?
15:42<Char>a game running?
15:42<yorick>openttdcoop for example
15:43<Char>i would need to find such a game then :P
15:43<yorick>openttdcoop ;)
15:43<yorick>join #openttdcoop
15:43<Char>never used the MP yet
15:45<Char>is it possible to join games
15:45<Char>while they are running?
15:45<Char>as spectator, i mean
15:46<yorick>it is :)
15:48<Char>is there a game running?
15:49<Char>cool. can you tell me how to join it?
15:49<Char>that'd be great....
15:49<Char>just to have a look
15:50*dih hugs TrueBrain
15:50<yorick>now what greats has he done?
15:54<dih>yorick, he does not _have_ to do good
15:54<dih>he _is_ good
15:55<dih>unlike you :-P
15:55<yorick>still...hugging him for no reason...
15:56<frosch123>would you prefer kicking for some reason?
15:56<yorick>no, but hugging for some reason on the other hand...
15:56<rortom>if anyone wants to join, were starting a new network game: in some minutes
15:57<rortom>nightly+ GRF pack
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15:57*yorick hugs rortom for spamming a server
15:57-!-rortom [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
15:57<@Bjarni>don't go
15:57-!-welshdragon is now known as off
15:57<@Bjarni>I wanted to kick you :/
15:58-!-off is now known as welshdragon
15:58<dih>Bjarni, there still is yorick
15:58<@Bjarni>welshdragon gets off
15:59<yorick>Bjarni: there is also still a dih
15:59<@Bjarni>I remember the first time I saw some soldiers on horses. I wondered why they were called dragons :D
15:59<yorick>he is much more kicksome
16:00<@Bjarni>took me quite a while to figure out that dragons and dragoons are spelled differently
16:01<@petern>it's obvious
16:01<@petern>there's an extra o
16:02<@Bjarni>oh right
16:02-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:02<welshdragon>fyi Bjarni
16:02<@Bjarni>a dragon has one head while a dragoon has two (one human and one horse)
16:02<@Bjarni>then why isn't hydra spelled "hydraooooooooo"?
16:03<@Bjarni>or cimeraooo?
16:06-!-rortom [] has joined #openttd
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16:06<frosch123>Bjarni: too slow
16:06<dih>@invite rortom
16:06<dih>be prepared
16:07-!-rortom [] has joined #openttd
16:07<dih>frosch123, Bjarni
16:07<dih>hello rortom
16:07<welshdragon>dih, you fik
16:07<welshdragon>OH FFS
16:07<@Bjarni>hello rortom
16:07<dih>wtf is wrong with you?
16:08<dih>who else?
16:08<welshdragon>i just am hyper
16:08<@Bjarni>dih: never ask anybody that question on the internet
16:08<welshdragon>and also special
16:08<@Bjarni>you will have a lot of reading to do
16:08<@Bjarni>and then you will have to be killed for knowing too much
16:09<welshdragon>Bjarni, he already knows too much
16:09<dih>welshdragon, so you consider 'being special' to be something 'wrong'?
16:09<welshdragon>dih nothing is wrong with me
16:09<welshdragon>i'm just me, me = special
16:09<@Bjarni>then why are you here?
16:10<welshdragon>because i play openttd
16:10<dih>i remember asking what was wrong with you - why did you then lie
16:10<dih>no players are in here
16:10<welshdragon>there are players and developers, as well as server hosts
16:11<@Bjarni>there are bots
16:11<@Bjarni>and people who think the bots are real people
16:11<@Bjarni>this channel is all part of a huge turing test
16:11-!-welshdragon [~vista@] has left #openttd [Leaving]
16:12<dih>nicely done
16:13<@Bjarni>did I convince him that he is a bot?
16:13<frosch123>"heute bzw. gestern ist ein neues nigthtly heraus gekommen." <- quote of the day
16:14<@Bjarni>who gave you that information?
16:14<frosch123>ttdp nightly actually
16:15-!-welshdragon [~vista@] has joined #openttd
16:16<@Bjarni>our bot is back
16:16-!-FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...]
16:16<@petern>and in english?
16:16<welshdragon>you want a bot?
16:16<@Bjarni>I just got one
16:16<frosch123>petern: "today resp. yesterday a new nightly was released"
16:17<@petern>er, right
16:17<@Bjarni>ok, now the world stopped
16:17-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:18<@Bjarni>or at least my link to the email world
16:18*Sacro hugs Bjarni
16:18<@Bjarni>the server is responding, but it fails to allow me to read mail
16:19<@Bjarni>it does that once in a while... totally annoying
16:19<@Bjarni>at least the OTTD mail works
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16:29<DJNekkid>could anyone help me on some nfo-code regarding more liveries/refitting?
16:32-!-Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
16:35<+glx>I think it needs an action2 chain
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16:36<frosch123>the description of callback 0x19 explains it
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17:03*TrueBrain hugs dih
17:03<TrueBrain>oh, that should annoy yorick
17:04<dih>he's not there :-P
17:04<TrueBrain>Rubidium: how lovely, our CET / CEST stuff works :)
17:04<TrueBrain>dih: I am sure he reads it back tomorrow ;)
17:04<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the compile-farm today compiled at 1900 UTC :)
17:05<dih>question, i hope you dont mind....
17:05<dih>sorting at
17:06<TrueBrain>I wonder if I should make a FAQ about such question
17:06<dih>could you sort the folders by creation date?
17:06-!-Sacro|Laptop is now known as Sacro
17:06<dih>then the latest build is always at the top
17:06<TrueBrain>as I answered this question around 10 times now ...
17:06-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:06*dih hides
17:06<TrueBrain>or I should keep a list of who I told it
17:06<dih>i must have forgotten
17:06<TrueBrain>so I can flame those who ask again
17:07<dih>i just cannot remember the answer :-P
17:07<TrueBrain>dih: but to answer again: not only is binaries.openttd.not not meant for manual browsing, it is also part of a mirror system
17:07<TrueBrain>any 'sorting' on my end will be invalidated by any mirror you access
17:07<TrueBrain>but, if we ever find the time, there will be a frontend, which avoids all this :)
17:07<dih>who mirrors it
17:07<TrueBrain>for now, you will need to scroll :)
17:08<dih>ah well :-)
17:08<dih>now i have the answer - slap me if i should ask again :-D
17:09<TrueBrain>I will put you on my little list ;)
17:09<TrueBrain>lets call it a grey list
17:09<TrueBrain>if you ask again, I move you to my black list
17:09*TrueBrain hugs dih :)
17:10<TrueBrain>good night all :)
17:10<@SmatZ>bye bye TrueBrain :)
17:10<dih>night TB
17:10<TrueBrain>I have to get up 0600 tomorrow, to start working at 0730 .... I feel tired already :(
17:10<dih>i should follow your example
17:10<dih>i do the same TB
17:10<TrueBrain>(as I most likely need to work to around 1900 or so ..)
17:10<TrueBrain>wish me luck :)
17:10<TrueBrain>to = till
17:10<dih>me luck :-D
17:10<TrueBrain>good boy :)
17:10<TrueBrain>sleep well all :)
17:11*dih sais "night" again and adds TB to his 'sleep well all' grey list :-D
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17:15<Char>wasnt there a "build while paused" option somewhere?
17:16<NukeBuster>wasn't that a cheat?
17:16<Eddi|zuHause2>yes. in the cheat menu
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17:44<Eddi|zuHause2>why do i get this feeling that this burty guy has no clue what he is talking about?
17:44<@Bjarni>because he is some random guy on the internet?
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17:50<Eddi|zuHause2>i should really not read the suggestions forum...
17:50-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:50<Eddi|zuHause2>"towns simply don't generate enough passengers"
17:50<+glx>he never played
17:51<+glx>they generate way too much for me
17:51<Eddi|zuHause2>i have the "reduce passengers" patch set to 6 (i.e. divide passengers by 2^6)
17:52<ln>there's a suggestions forum? what could be more useless.
17:53<+glx>sometimes there's a good idea
17:53<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, a suggestions forum where people open threads and are like: "i don' have a suggestion, but could you please post some suggestions in this thread?"
17:53<+glx>(very very rare)
17:54<ln>all the good suggestions are presented on this channel, by me.
17:54<ln>though i noticed how pointless it is years ago, so i'm not suggesting anything anymore.
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18:01<ben_goodger>ln: you're nearly as cynical as me
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18:12<Eddi|zuHause2>kernel: Write-error on swap-device (253:5:14328) <- that doesn't look very promising
18:15<Char>i have a map and the last oil rig just closed
18:15<Char>(in 1954, starting time was 1950)
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>damn, i just read the title "iPhone!" and thought the i was an ¡
18:19<Char>whats the standard map size?
18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>256x256 was the original map size
18:21<+glx>was not an oil rig
18:22<Char>i got a 256x256 map and it looks so freakin small
18:22<+glx>oil wells probably
18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>it seemed big back then, but now with longer trains and platforms, more zoom out levels and bigger screens, it feels rather tiny
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>but i have not yet managed to actually fill a 2048x2048 map
18:23<Char>the game calls that stuff that "produces" oil oil rig
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>oil wells are the inland pumps, and oil rigs are the offshore platforms
18:24<Char>still, the map is so small that i will have connected all industries in like 1960
18:24<Char>ah okay
18:24<Char>and actually i wanted to try a mainline setup
18:25<Char>but the problem is that the map is highly unsuited for a mainline
18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>try a 256x1024 map ;)
18:28<@petern>64x2048 :o
18:31<Char>i try a 256x512 map now
18:31<Char>that should work out better
18:31<Char>and its more flat
18:32<Char>moneymaker works already
18:32<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't know why, but i always found hightly connected passenger networks more interesting than industry "main lines"
18:32<Char>btw, single lane mainline (RL type) is pretty pointless, right?
18:33<Char>i never cared about passengers, they were too easy to do
18:33<Char>with airplanes :P
18:33<Eddi|zuHause2>why? just make sure you have trains that run on the same speed
18:34<Eddi|zuHause2>there's no need for overtaking and stuff then
18:34<+glx>unless breakdowns are on
18:35<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't often need more than double track
18:35<Eddi|zuHause2>but i once did implement a two way middle track for a heavily used line
18:35<Char>breakdowns are on
18:36<Eddi|zuHause2>only works properly with path signals, though
18:36<Char>how can you make the trains use the outer lines more likely?
18:36<Char>could try that so that overtaking for broken down trains works
18:36<Eddi|zuHause2>trains have a penalty for going backwards through a path signal
18:37<Eddi|zuHause2>or waypoint/station
18:37<Char>would need to dig into path signals then....
18:37<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, i'm not sure about waypoints
18:37<Eddi|zuHause2>but definitely stations that are not their current order
18:37<Eddi|zuHause2>just make sure the trains have non-stop orders
18:39<Char>i switched them on as standard
18:41<Char>so building non-used stations in the middle would make them try to avoid them?
18:41<Char>could try that....
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18:59<murray>all these amazing quit messages amaze me
19:00*SpComb doesn't have a quit message
19:01*murray never quits
19:01<SpComb>unless it's a server error message :<
19:02<Eddi|zuHause2>i like "connection reset by peer gynt" :p
19:04<SpComb>it's even .org, not .net
19:04<Char>computer enemies are SOOOOO stupid
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19:38<Char>need help
19:38<Char>anyone still awake?
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19:47<Sacro>Char: aye
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19:51<Char>well i found it i guess
19:51<Char>couldnt get my feeder stations to work properly
19:51<Char>cause the feeders picked up the cargo back
19:51<Char>which was kinda stupid ;)
19:52<Eddi|zuHause2>you need transfer and leave empty orders
19:52<Eddi|zuHause2>or cargo destinations
19:52<Char>i found out, but thanks
19:52<Char>another question though
19:53<Char>i have a long line running from one end of the map to the other
19:53<Char>and i got breakdowns active
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19:53<Char>now i want my trains to be serviced every 110 days to keep breakdowns to a minimum
19:53<Char>how do i manage that?
19:54<Char>i have train depots every 80 tiles or so
19:54<Char>but if the train has the order to go non-stop to the target destination, well, then it goes there and doesnt stop
19:54<Char>for any service at all
19:54<Char>even if i set the depots for "service if needed"
19:55<Char>and i do not want the trains to enter every depot
19:55<Char>do i need to remove the non-stop order?
20:00<Aali>if you want them to enter every depot, just remove the other track so they dont have a choice
20:00<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have service orders, they will be skipped if service is not needed, and the next order is started. while the train is not at a service order, it will never service
20:01<Eddi|zuHause2>if you want the trains to go to depots on the way, you need to remove all service in depot orders
20:01<Aali>oh wait, you just said you didn't want that
20:02<Eddi|zuHause2>or add waypoints before the depot track, so you add orders like: 1. go to waypoint right in front of depot, 2. service at depot, 3. go to station
20:03<Eddi|zuHause2>then, at the waypoint, it is checked for serviceing, not on leaving the previous station, which might be a long time
20:04<Eddi|zuHause2>get what i mean?
20:05<Char>so i need waypoints for what i want
20:05<Char>not nice
20:05<Char>but well
20:05<Aali>well, if he wants to service every 110 days, it would just be a simple matter of removing the service orders, no?
20:05<Char>no its not
20:06<Aali>assuming there's always an accessible depot
20:06<Char>if i have the oders as non-stop
20:06<Aali>doesn't matter
20:06<Char>than the train seems to not even stop for servicing
20:06<Char>non-stop seems to override servicing
20:06<Aali>non-stop determines if trains stop at stations other than their current destination
20:06<Char>i will try....
20:06<Aali>it has nothing to do with servicing
20:07<Char>it seems to have... you sure?
20:07<+glx><Char> i have train depots every 80 tiles or so <-- the gap between depots is too big
20:07<+glx>when a train searches for a depot it look at 16 tiles at most
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20:09<Char>now it works
20:09<Char>removed the non-stop stuff
20:09<Char>and it seems to work
20:10<Aali>which version of ottd are you running?
20:11<Aali>i always use non-stop orders and my trains obey the service interval
20:11<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, non-stop should have absolutely no influence on servicing
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20:19<Char>but it seems to have
20:19<Char>did any of you ever try?
20:20<Char>i think i never ever got so rich so fast
20:21<Char>but maybe it just looks like because of the currency (swiss francs)
20:22<@Belugas>"I Love You, I'm going to Blow Up your School"
20:22<@Belugas>fucking great album,
20:22<@Belugas>a m a z i n g!
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20:27<Sacro>UKRS looks borked in trunk
20:29<Sacro>it seems a fair few trains are missing
20:29<Sacro>and the class 33 is dual headed :o
20:29<Char>belugas: what band is that?!?
20:30<Char>hmmm. breakdowns are considerably slowing down my mainline :/
20:32<Sacro>UKRS is borked in stable too D:
20:32-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit []
20:33<+glx>Sacro: newgrf conflict maybe
20:33<Sacro>glx: hmm
20:33-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
20:33<Sacro>perhaps my grf order is wrong
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20:35<Char>hey guys
20:35<Char>any tips on how to handle a crowded mainline when breakdowns are active?
20:35<Aali>1. don't
20:36<+glx>double the tracks and use cross over
20:36<Aali>2. get the improved breakdowns patch
20:36<Char>improved breakdowns?
20:36<Aali>seriously, i've never seen a good, working overtaking system
20:36<Char>glx, that means i need PBS right?
20:37<+glx>Aali: 2 is good only if you have multiple engines
20:37<Char>which i dont
20:37<Aali>Char: its a patch that makes breakdowns more realistic and way less frequent
20:37<Aali>no it isn't
20:38<Aali>it makes a HUGE difference to single-engine trains aswell
20:39<Char>if it just reduces breakdowns i could as well play with reduced breakdowns ;)
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20:39<Aali>it does more than that
20:39<Char>what else does it do?
20:39<Aali>trains can break down in a number of ways
20:39<Aali>instead of just stopping with black smoke
20:40<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, it can also temporarily reduce power or speed
20:40<Aali>thats still in there, called a mechanical failure, then there's emergency stop, power reduction and max speed reduction
20:41<Aali>so, use an engine thats faster than your trains will ever go (if you're playing with wagon speed limits) and with some extra hp and the game will actually be playable with breakdowns turned on
20:42<Char>the game is playable with normal breakdowns turned on as well
20:42<Char>just the lines can handle way less
20:42<Char>there is a limit to how much you can actually get through a single-lane mainline
20:43<Char>and for a reasonable double-lane mainline which i am about to build i guess i will need path based signals
20:43<Char>or pre-signals
20:43<Char>so that trains will actually overtake
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20:44<Char>if one is broken down
20:44<Aali>that doesn't work if it breaks down at the switch though
20:45<Aali>and you usually end up with trains trying to overtake each other in a criss-cross pattern
20:47<Char>that might be true
20:48<Aali>i'm not saying you shouldn't try though, thats just some of the things you want to think about while building it :P
20:48<Char>i will need to start a new game for that though
20:48<Char>cause this is my first mainline ever, so....
20:48<Char>and its only single-lane
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20:50<Char>road vehicles are much more intelligent ;)
20:50<Aali>road vehicles are harder to control
20:51<Aali>and they are not very good at avoiding deadlocks
20:54<Char>i actually dont like road vehicles
20:54<Char>just use them as feeders
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21:00<Eddi|zuHause2>i use trams very often
21:01<Aali>trams are much cooler than RVs :)
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21:11<Char>i have to rebuild my mainline :/
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21:15<Char>just a question. is there any estimates around how much cargo a mainline should be able to handle?
21:15<Char>i.e. in tons / month
21:15<Aali>that depends on a number of factors :P
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21:16<Char>yeah i know
21:16<Char>like train speed
21:17<Char>and train length
21:17<Char>and whether breakdowns are on or off :P
21:17<Char>cause my (single-lane) mainline is not able to handle more than ~1500 tons of stuff a month
21:17<Char>maybe 2000
21:20<ben_goodger>network design efficiency is likely to be a limiting factor
21:20<Aali>Char: how many trains? and how long?
21:20<ben_goodger>try using path-based signals if they're supported by your build
21:20<Char>i guess they are
21:21<Char>since it is the latest nightly build ;)
21:21<Char>i will have to dig into this path-based signalling
21:21<Char>but maybe not tonight
21:21<Aali>soo, how many trains do you have?
21:24<Char>like, in total?
21:24<Eddi|zuHause2>longer trains tend to increase line capacity, but decrease junction capacity
21:24<Char>train length 12
21:25<Eddi|zuHause2>12 half-tiles?
21:25<Aali>when you have a 100, you'll see why breakdowns are so bad ;)
21:25<Aali>so, TL6 then
21:25<Char>ah okay
21:25<Char>thats how you calculate
21:26<Eddi|zuHause2>i try to design my networks around 10 tiles
21:26<Char>things start to get pretty messed up
21:26<Eddi|zuHause2>feeder trains can be shorter
21:26<Aali>tl10? thats just painful
21:27<Eddi|zuHause2>but i do also play with reduced cargo amounts
21:27<Aali>i use that for secondary goods that never go on the mainline
21:29<Char>i guess
21:29<Char>for starters i will try to design a working network without breakdowns
21:29<Char>which is probably already not quite easy
21:29<Char>but the breakdowns completely break this
21:30<Aali>but then my mainline is LLL_RRR or more, which already makes for some rather large junctions
21:30<Char>i got ~10 breakdowns a year per train
21:31<Char>and i just realized that one of my stations is designed pretty poorly
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21:43<ben_goodger>I've several lines that are five squares longer than the size of the train, including two two-square stations
21:43<ben_goodger>they tend to be very quick ^^
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23:53*solid_liq needs a little help
23:55<solid_liq>I get a number of ?'s (question marks) instead of graphics and letters in various places (the most annoying being in place of railroad signals). When I start the game, it says the font I'm using is missing some of the characters needed for the language, and to see the readme file for how to fix it. The readme file and the website both don't say anything about how to fix this, tho I did find unset font options in the openttd.cfg file. I'm
23:56<solid_liq>Oh, and for some reason, the signals will appear after a while, but only new ones... maybe this is the electronic vs. mechanical ones I just read something about...
---Logclosed Mon Oct 27 00:00:00 2008