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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-11-06

---Logopened Thu Nov 06 00:00:07 2008
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01:12<ln->it's @300
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02:54<dih>ln-: congrats on finding internet time and being able to use 'beats'
02:55<ln->dih: thank you, sir.
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03:24<ln->did you mean: peter1, ..., peter(n-1), petern
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03:26<planetmaker>I meant peternn and petern wit n in N
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04:38<Aperculum>what is openttd-useful package?
04:38<dih>a package with useful stuff
04:38<Aperculum>but what exactly
04:38<dih>does it now say?
04:39<Aperculum>does it come with base install of openttd?
04:39<dih>if it did - there would be no need for it
04:39<dih>the last news entrie sais it includes libraries
04:39<Aperculum>well, that doesn't really tell much
04:39<dih>and is needed by those who compile openttd themselves on windows systems with the ms own compiler
04:40<Aperculum>oh, I see
04:40<dih>else - download it, have a look at it
04:40<Aperculum>not on windows and no need to compile :)
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04:43<dih>then you dont need it ;-)
04:43<Aperculum>that's what I wanted to know, thank you
04:44<dih>you are welcome :-P
04:47<planetmaker>good idea actually :)
04:49<dih>SpComb: without the 32 :-P
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05:31<Aperculum>what can I do when plane crashes?
05:32<Aperculum>how do I clean up the parts so I can use the airport again
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05:34<Aperculum>also, same with train crashes, can I clean them up to free the rails?
05:36<Aperculum>I'm just supposed to leave them there?
05:42<dih>they clean up after time
05:42<dih>after a month or so
05:43<dih>Aperculum: please read - there is a great game play manual
05:43<dih>explains all these parts
05:43<Aperculum>I see, thanks
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06:51<Ammler>Developer Blog dead or moved?
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06:55<@Rubidium>moved to /dev/zero
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08:46<@Belugas>hello all
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09:51<Eddi|zuHause>Developer1 [with saxon accent]: "hast du ma de biden konsole benutzt?"
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>Developer2 [also with saxon accent]: "jo, domit hab'sch obama georbeided"
09:53<@Belugas>mmh... i s was pretty sure i did not asked for german subtitles on this remote control :S
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>it's a horrible play on dialects and the obama/biden election
09:57<Char2>its rather strange
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>the biden -> python replacement might be understandable by "outsiders"
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>but that "hab'sch obama" actually expands to "hab ich schon ein paar mal"
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>might not even be obvious to germans ;)
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>[translation is basically: "have you used the python console yet?" - "yes, i have worked with it a number of times"
09:59-!-Batti5 [~Lorand@] has joined #openttd
10:02<@Belugas>hello Batti5
10:02*Belugas puts on The Hawk Is Howling
10:03<Batti5>wats new?
10:03-!-davis- [] has joined #openttd
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>horrible jokes in german
10:03<Batti5>witch IRC client You use?
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>/ctcp <nickname> version
10:04<Batti5>thanks petern
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>yours is: "Kopete IRC Plugin 0.12.7 []"
10:06<Batti5>yes, and now i can do this :-S which i couldent with Konversation
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>smilie-replacement is a horrible feature, because it replaces stuff which never was meant as smilie
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>i once got a message with a copyright mark, and the (C) was replaced by a coffee mug...
10:08<fonso>Klicki-bunti also ...
10:09-!-fonso is now known as Ulf
10:09<Batti5>in Konversation no smilies at all
10:09-!-Ulf is now known as fonso
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10:26<Batti6>hello batti5
10:26<Batti5>how are you?
10:26<Batti6>are upgrade
10:27<Batti5>what upgrade, is this a joke?
10:27<Batti6>the upgrade is delayed, canceled
10:28-!-Andel [] has joined #openttd
10:29<Brianetta>Hello Andel
10:29<Batti6>hello ?
10:29<Batti6>hello, nathaniel
10:29<+glx>babyottd renamed?
10:29<Batti6>rubidium ponders feeding babyottd some lorem ipsum
10:30<Brianetta>Too many Battis here
10:30<Andel>hello Brianetta
10:30<Batti6>hello anyone
10:31<Batti6>the bot so it's questionable whether
10:31<Brianetta>er, yeah
10:31<Brianetta>so you're on twice?
10:32<Brianetta>meh, never mind
10:32<Batti6>dosent mind them
10:32<Aperculum>my game won't play the musics although I have timidity installed
10:32<Brianetta>Aperculum: Neither will mine.
10:33<+glx>Aperculum: and you have gm dir too?
10:33<Batti5>Neither will mine
10:33<Batti6>will mine
10:33<Aperculum>hmm, I think I just added it this morning
10:33<Batti6>the moment
10:33<Batti6>the morning and arrange for a night is not implemented
10:33<Aperculum>yes, with files
10:34<Aperculum>if I play those files with timidity manually, they work fine
10:35<+glx>can you play them while the game is running too?
10:35<Batti5>listen, im The Only Batti Here, please pick an other nick
10:35<Batti6>can teach him to listen for a bit
10:35-!-Brianetta is now known as Batti7
10:35<+glx>not funny Batti7 :)
10:35<Batti7>I am a batti too now (:
10:35<Batti6>some funny poo
10:35<Batti6>i am the man from
10:35-!-Batti7 is now known as Brianetta
10:35<Aperculum>glx, no, I can't play them ingame
10:35<Aperculum>that's my problem
10:35<Batti6>the internet play via public, Aperculum
10:36<Aperculum>or do you mean can I play them manually while game is running?
10:36<+glx>the latter
10:36<Batti6>the moment
10:36<Brianetta>If you happen to have a midi piano, you can try that...
10:36<Batti6>although hmm, it's legality has been questioned by some, since the initial versions were created
10:37<+glx>Batti6: go see a deltic
10:37<Aperculum>glx, "couldn't open output device"
10:37<Aperculum>by timidity
10:37<+glx>there's a variable to set to allow that
10:37<Batti6>will allow you for the nightly was created every day
10:38<Aperculum>glx, alsa, timidity or openttd variable?
10:38<Batti6>with timidity manually, they howl
10:38<Aperculum>haha, the one not on my list
10:38<Batti6>master server list window a tad more usable
10:39-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:40<@petern>Batti6, you love deltics
10:40<Batti6>we love the sound of a wide range
10:40<Batti5>for me timidity only works if i play the gm files manualy,
10:40<Batti6>Batti5 alsa, timidity or openttd variable ?
10:41<+glx>Aperculum: export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=esd or something like that
10:41<Batti6>or something
10:41<Batti5>and even then is slow why? i use fedora8
10:44<Aperculum>glx, thanks, that fixed it
10:44<Batti6>one little bug, fixed in 5 minutes
10:44<Aperculum>I put it in my bashrc now
10:44<Aperculum>thanks a lot :)
10:44<Batti6>a lot worse i guess that would have been written in c++
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10:48-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
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10:50<Brianetta>Hey, Burty!
10:50<Batti6>what the moon is made from your memory !
10:50<Burty>hey Brianetta
10:50<Batti6>hey Burty
10:51<Burty>Batti6... no relation to Batti5?? are you??
10:51<Batti6>the internet are vast and there is no link on the site : s
10:51<Brianetta>Batti5 has a different host name
10:51<Burty>ahhh ok thanks brianetta
10:52<Brianetta>well, I say host name
10:52<Brianetta>It's an unresolved IP
10:52<Batti5>your all crazy
10:52<Batti6>i'm not crazy, he dressed like me !
10:52<Brianetta>my all crazy?
10:53*Burty is crazy indeed
10:54<Batti5>Batti6, is nobody i know.
10:54<Batti5>he/she stealed my nick
10:54<Brianetta>your nick is Batti5
10:55<SmatZ>:-D @ Batti5 & Batti6 ... weren't you "batti5" before? (small B)
10:55<Batti6>lol @ SmatZ
10:55<SmatZ>neither of you is batti5 , right?
10:56<Batti6>SmatZ : )
10:56<SmatZ>THE batti5 :)
10:56<Batti6>: )
10:57<Batti5>it me that batti5, that nearly got banned for the s word, but saved by Belugas
10:58<Batti5>Batti6 is a stranger
10:59<planetmaker>evil social engeneering... :P
10:59<Batti6>right now : p
10:59<Batti5> :-@
11:00*Burty is sorry i asked
11:00<@Belugas>someone called?
11:01<Brianetta>Too many people starting with B
11:01<Batti6>too many people
11:01<planetmaker>a robot calls for a kick me thinks.
11:01<@Belugas>103 to be exact!
11:01<Batti6>try that would be a pain
11:02-!-Eddi|zuHause is now known as BEddi
11:02-!-Burty [] has quit []
11:02<BEddi>better now?
11:02<Batti6>( : p
11:02<Brianetta>We lost Burty ):
11:02<Batti6>i want to you lost me
11:02-!-BEddi is now known as Eddi|zuHause
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>that can be arranged...
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>i really wonder about the turing test if the test subjects are Batti5 and Batti6 :p
11:04<Brianetta>Eddi: Who's which what?
11:04<Batti6>the cheese, which is what the moon who will always eat
11:04<Batti5> *STOP*
11:04<Andel>hammer time?
11:04<Brianetta>Dow, now now now,
11:04<Batti6>stops now exist, don't figure out is how to set up a bot so it's half an hour late for suppsoedly running the compile farm at 2000
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>the moon is made of meat, everybody knows that
11:04<Batti6>the to everybody
11:05<Batti5>Batti6, stop fouling around with my name
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11:06<Brianetta>Hey, Zahl
11:06<Batti6>the time Brianetta there is no link on the moon who will always eat
11:06<Batti5>I use only Batti,Batti5 & Batti3004
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>let me guess which one is your age? :p
11:08<Batti5>thare over 3000 Batti`s in this world, i cant be all of them
11:09<Batti6>no you cant tell there's legality has been questioned by some, since the initial versions were created
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11:11<Brianetta>Which one is pretending to be the other?
11:12<Brianetta>Like we believe you
11:12<Batti6>i cannot believe you guys accept a bot, but forename is the one creating
11:12<welshdragon>one is a one, so belongs to Brianetta
11:12<@Belugas>it's very nice to attend a conference call when you're voiceless. Somehow, everybody is REALLY listening to what you say, whenever you try to push a few words :D
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11:13<planetmaker>:D The silent words may ring the loudest :)
11:13<Batti6>that may lead to death
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11:16<Batti5>you all say im crazy, but Batti6 is crazyer
11:17<Brianetta>crazier than the crazy batti5?
11:17<Batti6>webpage is crazy indeed
11:17<welshdragon>both of you are as mad as hatters
11:17<Batti6>for both cases
11:18<Batti5>ok Batti6, remove the mask, halloween passed a week ago.
11:18<welshdragon>what mask?
11:19<Batti6>: what do you care to read the credits ?
11:19<planetmaker>mv Batti6 babyottd
11:19-!-Batti6 is now known as babyottd
11:19<babyottd>lachie slaps babyottd on the site : s
11:19<babyottd>I know 4670 words (32911 contexts, 7.05 per word), 5033 lines.
11:19<babyottd>I am a version 1.1.0 PyBorg
11:19-!-Brianetta was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
11:19-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
11:19*Brianetta slaps DorpsGek with a balloon
11:19*welshdragon dropkicks DorpsGek
11:19<babyottd>geared to make him say gaga from time
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11:20<Brianetta>Batti5: You're as mad as babyottd.
11:20<babyottd>you're really there, stop fouling around with my useless ive : o
11:21<planetmaker>he... !version is actually not the right one... people will ask for !revision :)
11:21<Brianetta>Also, we suspect you're as robotic.
11:21<babyottd>they're going to start a facebook user
11:21<babyottd>planetmaker nightly was created every day at the same revision the clients are expected to use
11:22<Batti5>Brianetta: you too Batti7
11:22<Brianetta>I'm a robot, yes.
11:22<Brianetta>You're speaking to an AI.
11:22<Brianetta>babyottd is a younger AI
11:22<Brianetta>as you can tell from his appalling command of language
11:22<babyottd>the command
11:22<planetmaker>But you passed the Turing test.
11:23<babyottd>i will have passed the turing test
11:23<Brianetta>There is that
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11:24<Batti5>you made this up? This Batti6 thing
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11:39<Brianetta>Batti5: Yes.
11:39<Brianetta>babyottd is actually a computer program.
11:41<Batti5>a talking program?
11:43<Brianetta>Yes. A PyBorg
11:43<Brianetta>Everything he learned he learned on this channel or #tycoon
11:43<Brianetta>He puts sentences together from bits he sees that look like bits he saw before
11:45<benjamingoodger>he's a little sod, that's what he is
11:45-!-lobster_MB [] has quit [Quit: COCKBUSTER SLEEP MODE]
11:45<benjamingoodger>*grumbles about "kids these days" and such*
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11:49<ccfreak2k>Brianetta, what's the backend for it?
11:49<Brianetta>PyBorg is a Python app
11:50<Brianetta>flat file
11:50<ccfreak2k>Yes I could figure out the Python part on my own.
11:50<ccfreak2k>I mean what does it use to "put sentences together from bits he sees that look like bits he saw before"?
11:54-!-Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:54<benjamingoodger>ccfreak2k: it forms associations between words that it sees commonly used together
11:55<ccfreak2k>I'll just assume it's using Markov chains.
11:55<benjamingoodger>good idea.
11:56<benjamingoodger>that was my assumption too
11:56<George>Belugas: Looks like there are not much questions for me :) I was expecting more :) So, are there any questions for me left?
11:58<planetmaker>George: Thx for your website update. I also updated our grf repo :)
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12:01<Brianetta>ccfreak2k: It uses Python statements. Never having looked at them, I couldn't elaborate.
12:02<ccfreak2k>That's like saying "my C program uses the standard C library."
12:03<Brianetta>Yes, it is.
12:03<SpComb>ccfreak2k: not all C programs use the standard C library
12:03<George>planetmaker: Where did you updated it? I could not find.
12:03<Brianetta>It's also the answer to your question, as far as I could answer it.
12:04<ccfreak2k>It wasn't the answer I'm looking for, so I'm guessing A) you didn't program it, or B) you DID program it, but not with any specific algorithm in mind.
12:04<Brianetta>I didn't program it.
12:04<Brianetta>Also, algorithm doesn't imply back end
12:05<Brianetta>It back end is a flat file database, as I said
12:05<SpComb>and it's slow
12:05<planetmaker>George: in our (not open) grf repository where we continuously update the grfs.
12:05<ccfreak2k>"Markov chains" probably could've clued you in on what kind of answer I wanted.
12:06<planetmaker> <--- that collection
12:06<ccfreak2k>SpComb, try the megahal plugin for eggdrop when its brain file becomes sizeable. THEN you'll know slow. :)
12:07<planetmaker>from time to time we take a snapshot of it and call it a new release of the #openttdcoop grf pack :)
12:07-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
12:07<planetmaker>well. Basically Ammler does that.
12:07<Ammler>we is fine :P
12:08<@Belugas>ho... sorry George... you are not hilgighed on this client, nor is my nick either :S
12:09<George>Fine. It is evening here, so I can answer questions if there are any :)
12:09<ccfreak2k>I have one.
12:09<ccfreak2k>What would happen if the Earth's core were to suddenly become hollow?
12:10<@Belugas>George : there is still that question about the number of production changes per months
12:11<@Belugas>the exact reason for the request does not really strike us
12:12<benjamingoodger>ccfreak2k: depends on the properties of the earth's crust
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12:12<planetmaker>George: I was wrong. It's even accessible:
12:12<benjamingoodger>but most likely, the planet would collapse toward the mountain ranges and form an odd-shaped lump
12:13<George>Belugas: And what is the question then?
12:13<planetmaker>[18:15] <benjamingoodger> but most likely, the planet would collapse toward the mountain ranges and form an odd-shaped lump <-- not true.
12:14<planetmaker>it's sufficient mass that again a sphere would form.
12:14<benjamingoodger>the crust wouldn't be massive enough for that, surely
12:15<George>planetmaker: But I can't see the difference for beta 5 and alpha 1 ECS vectors, while it is different on my site
12:15<benjamingoodger>meh, doesn't matter, it's not going to happen
12:15<planetmaker>benjamingoodger: the core is the inner 2000km. The rest ist the mantle.
12:15<benjamingoodger>oh, well, if it's just the literal core
12:15<benjamingoodger>then yes
12:16<benjamingoodger>I thought he was referring a Vergon VI scenario such that only the crust remained
12:16<planetmaker>George: we should have the latest of each listed on your website - there are only beta 5...
12:18<George>No, they are not. and they are not CC-BY-NC-ND
12:18<planetmaker>oh, that link then needs fixing. Thanks for pointing out.
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12:19<George>only LV4 and ECS beta 5 are CC-BY-NC-ND. Others are not. They are outdated and I do not want them to be distributed by the servers.
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12:20<planetmaker>hm... I don't find that link anywhere... probably I'm blind. Can you give me a more detailed hint please?
12:21<@Belugas>basically, George, how important is that data for you? I mean... i'm sure you can live without it
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12:21<@Belugas>what would you use it for?
12:21<@Belugas>honestly, we're not THAT enthusiast to implement it
12:21<George>planetmaker: link to GRFs page or what?
12:23<planetmaker>yeah. I don't see where I have a link to your old grfs. I'm happy to change it, though.
12:23<planetmaker>as it's a wiki, you could actually change it even yourself :P
12:24<Ammler>planetmaker: we still distribute beta4 with GRFPack 7.2
12:25<planetmaker>but even there the download links point to the current page... :S
12:27<George>Belugas: It is not a very important thing, because it causes only 12,5% error in calculation, that is acceptable.
12:27<George>Value would be used for production change callback. It would determinate amount of cargo required to store. Now I use a value of 9 cycles, that would mean that 12,5% of resources would stay unused at the end of month. Not much, so it make a feature not much useful now. but in case of day length patch would go into trunk, the difference may become really huge with more than 100% mistake. So,...
12:27<George> could go to todo list with a very low priority, but should be picked up as soon as day length patch goes to trunk.
12:28<dih>somehow i wonder if that would ever happen
12:28<frosch123>and whether month would still be months
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12:30<dih>& freud
12:31<@Belugas>so the basic question is if yes or no day length patch would ever be in trunk, i guess
12:32<George>frosch123: Yes, but amount of production callbacks would be different. And amount of required resources should be different too!
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12:32<frosch123>yup, and that are so many questions, that daylength will not hit trunk in the next 10 years
12:33*dih applies the daylengthpatch to his life and fastforwards 10 years
12:33<George>Belugas: Do you suppose that it can not go to the trunk? I think it is only a question of time. So, the question is only "When would day length patch go in trunk"
12:34<@Belugas>i agree with frosch123. It's very unlikely it would ever be in
12:34<dih>George, you are behaving as every other tt-forums user
12:34<George>dih: ?
12:35<dih>when will x feature be in trunk
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12:35<dih>and "i think that i is easy / only a question of time...
12:35<@Belugas>dih, calm down. George is not someone who is active in the developpement.
12:35<@Belugas>he has his own concerns and agendas
12:36<dih>still - looks like a sneakey way round the back to ask the same thing :-P
12:36<@Belugas>he simply react on problems that have been raised while users are using his grfs with this or that patch
12:36<George>I do not ask "When". I say what is required to support it on my side. I do not say "It is easy". I say "what is easier, A or B".
12:38<dih>[18:34] <George> Belugas: Do you suppose that it can not go to the trunk? I think it is only a question of time. So, the question is only "When would day length patch go in trunk"
12:38<@Belugas>you see, dih? you're jumping too fast on the gun ^_^
12:38<dih>am i?
12:38<@Belugas>like a machine gun :)
12:38*Belugas pats dih
12:38<@Belugas>good boy, good boy
12:40<@petern>hmm, does ms ts (rdp) require a specific type of ssl certificate?
12:40<dih>fine :-(
12:40<George>dih: and where did I say that it is easy? I know what is to make a thing. LVs are 5 years old. So, 10 years for a big patch is not much ;)
12:41<dih>there was a slash (/) interpret that as "or"
12:41<dih>and i never said _you_ said it, the tt-forum _users_ do that :-P
12:41<@Belugas>George, one thing for sure, i'm pretty sure i will not see the day where that patch will be in trunk
12:42<@Belugas>so i would not worry too much about it,if i were you
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12:43<George>Hey, you are not so OLD. I'm 30 and I suppose my daughter would play OTTD with day length patch ;)
12:43<ccfreak2k>petern, are you using a self-signed cert?
12:45<@petern>local ca
12:46<@petern>the cert & key are perfectly valid from the certificate manager (via mmc) point of view
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12:46<@petern>annoyingly i've done this before and it worked :o
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12:48<George>Belugas: I think that I should discuss it with day length patch devs. I suppose there are many users interested in this patch. So, I should plan the support it. At least I should to have a plan for future.
12:48<@Belugas>George, i'm about to be 44. Guess that's starting to count as old ;)
12:49<@Belugas>are you sure daylength triggers more callbacks?
12:49<@Belugas>petern, you're atill at work?
12:52<frosch123>searching a companion?
12:52<George>Yes. At least it was discussed on the forums, and it was said that the tick length is unchanged, while the number of ticks per day changes. Because production callback happens every 256 ticks, doubling day length also doubles the number of callbacks happen
12:53<dih>then the daylength patch should reajust some loops :-P
12:54<@Belugas>should'nt it be simpler to know the number of ticks per day?
12:54<George>well, my 23 y.o colleagues also call me OLD :)
12:54<@Belugas>cause it's a pretty tedious job to even find the number of days in a month.
12:55<frosch123>dih: I would suggest a new tab in the advanced settings, where you can control like 30 parameters. I.e. number of ticks pers day, number of days till monthy-callback, ....
12:55<dih>monthy python callback?
12:56<planetmaker>FOR! monty python will spice up the game ;)
12:56<dih>tell me a jock
12:56<dih>bad timing for a typo
12:57*Belugas puts on a wig, grab his guitar and plays in front of the mirror, pretending he is still young
12:58<George>Yes it is enough to know the difference between the current day length and default day length.
12:58<dih>Belugas, nice one :-D
12:58<dih>i am thinking that would be a lovely quote for my forums sig
13:00<George>planetmaker: Old ECS vectors are here
13:01<planetmaker>yes, I know, George . But I understand that you don't want them promoted anymore :)
13:03<@Belugas>frosch123, am i right in assuming ttdpatch does not have the same ticks per day as OpenTTD?
13:04<@Belugas>i think i've read that somewhere
13:04<George>planetmaker: So, are there any questions left? If you'd like to distribute some old grf, let's discuss it. I may change my opinion about a single old grf
13:05<planetmaker>George: generally we like to keep our repo up to date. But for backward compatibility (older savegames) we keep the old grfs.
13:05<planetmaker>So, there might be in a legacy pack older grfs.
13:05<@Belugas>dih, i don't mind :) it would just be the second itme ;)
13:05<planetmaker>They're not part of the usual distribution, though
13:05*Belugas BadCats
13:05<George>planetmaker: what are the old grfs that are already in use?
13:06<planetmaker>George: the current pack has beta 4 - so people currently get them.
13:06<planetmaker>the overall repository is some years old...
13:07<planetmaker>I don't know myself what there actually is in the extension packs for very old savegames.
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13:10<planetmaker>everything which is outdated is also clearly marked as obsolete. <--- history of the grfs... @ George
13:10<planetmaker>but: that's current. My shopping around for licenses is in order to make sure that no one can take offence :)
13:11<frosch123>Belugas: no, that would break a lot. but IIRC a tick takes different amount of real time in dos and windows (=OTTD) version.
13:11<frosch123>like 30ms vs. 28ms
13:12<planetmaker>frosch123: wouldn't that have clients on different OS desync?
13:12<George>Well, I think the old versions should be removed then. Servers should use the new staff, while for old game a person can download the file from the authors site.
13:13<planetmaker>George: the default download is new stuff
13:13<frosch123>planetmaker: the question was about ttdp
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13:13<planetmaker>the rest is for historical reasons.
13:13<@Belugas>frosch123, i was under the impression. sorry
13:13<George>planetmaker: My aborted GRFs are not in the obsolete list.
13:14<planetmaker>sorry that I seem to ask so dumb... I am :P
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13:15<planetmaker>In our current pack there are AFAIK no grf of you which are obsolete.
13:16<planetmaker>just to make sure: <--- that's what we currently distribute.
13:16<planetmaker>Which are problematic for you, George?
13:18<George>planetmaker: NewMonorailMrHuntW.grf for example. The one that I do not want to be distributed.
13:19<planetmaker>ah, ok. We'll remove it then.
13:19<George>planetmaker: Toyland2MarsW.grf & T2MarsBonusW.grf are a question for discussion.
13:19<planetmaker>please license them. I like them :)
13:20<planetmaker>they have some potential for improvement, but despite :)
13:20<Sacro>George: they are not distributing it, you are
13:20<Sacro>well, on that page anyway
13:21<George>And, of cause, I'd like to prevent distribution of LV1, LV2, LV3, LV33/4 and "New cargos for temperate" of cause
13:21<Sacro>A good way of doing that would be to *never* post it online
13:22<George>Sacro: Yes, but not for game servers. They are available for personal use by the players, but I dot want to go farther. They are too old even to speak about them.
13:22<planetmaker>none of which is in the pack
13:23<Sacro>George: so?
13:23<planetmaker>george: the pack is downloaded by all kinds of people...
13:23<planetmaker>I guess most use it for single player...
13:23<Wolf01>George, you are right, but like the guy who posted his paints on his site and then blamed google because it indexed the paints, you can't do so much, internet is internet, once online you lose all the control
13:24<Sacro>Wolf01: you have some control
13:24<Sacro>but yes, basically once it's out then it's out
13:24<frosch123>[19:25] <planetmaker> I guess most use it for single player... <- but fail to activate all grfs at once :p
13:24<planetmaker>hehehe. Very much so.
13:24<Ammler>Wolf01: he doesn't lose control about his grfs on the coop pack :-)
13:24<planetmaker>You don't imagine how people complain - even server admins who should know better.
13:25<George>planetmaker: Yes, you got the idea
13:25<planetmaker>Actually the coop pack is the only means to travel back into time wrt grfs
13:26<Wolf01>Ammler, but he lost the control on all other places
13:26<planetmaker>george: The only thing which we can do - just like you - is keeping the _current_ grf pack up to date.
13:28<planetmaker>which we actually did for now over two years.
13:29<George>planetmaker: then I'd suggest (a point for discussion) to remove ECS alpha vectors too. CURRENT work is beta 5
13:29<Ammler>George: where do you see alpha vectors?
13:29<planetmaker>George: I don't understand. We don't have alpha!
13:30<George>planetmaker: as for T2M - is there any body willing to provide more graphics for it? Also, it used original games graphics, what is the right way for licensing it?
13:30<planetmaker>Original graphics cannot be licensed - I guess.
13:31<planetmaker>But it's the same as the default grf files. So... and you modded it.
13:31<George>planetmaker: ECS: Basic vector for tropic alpha 1 ECSBasTrw.grf Wiki r43 George, Wile E. Coyote, Michael Blunck, AgRiG
13:31<George> ECS: Construction vector alpha 1 ECSConstw.grf Wiki r43 George, MHz, 447, Michael Blunck, AgRiG
13:31<George> ECS: Construction vector by Pikka alpha 1 ECSCPikkw.grf Wiki r43 Pikkabird, George
13:31<planetmaker>Besides that I'm not into the grf maker scene that much that I know who wants to build what.
13:31<George> ECS: Machinery vector for tropic alpha 1 ECSMacTrw.grf Wiki r43 George, Michael Blunck, AgRiG
13:32<planetmaker>eh... but they're unique, are they?
13:33<Ammler>George: does those GRFs have new Versions?
13:33<Ammler>or are they included in the "general" verctor now?
13:34<George>planetmaker: So, the question for T2M is open. Ask lawyers about correct solution for this case. I suppose I can't specify it CC because the initial graphics is not CC
13:34<planetmaker>You can talk about your contributions though - then it's our problem :P
13:34<Sacro>George: stop spamming copy/paste
13:35<planetmaker>Sacro: that was an answer. I appreciate that answer.
13:35<Sacro>oh, alright, sorry
13:35*Sacro reads the backlog and goes "ahh"
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13:46<George>ECS: Basic vector for tropic alpha 1 - aborted
13:46<George>ECS: Construction vector alpha 1 - beta 5 now
13:46<George>ECS: Construction vector by Pikka alpha 1 - will be updated later
13:46<George>ECS: Machinery vector for tropic alpha 1 - frozen for unlimeted time. may be aborted
13:46<planetmaker>well... but they're playable, not?
13:47<planetmaker>I see the point with the construction vector.
13:48<planetmaker>actually... that is the wrong text. I updated it to beta 5, I'm sure.
13:48<Ammler>src/string.cpp:70: char* strecpy(char*, const char*, const char*): Assertion `dst <= last' failed.
13:48<SmatZ>Ammler: newest revision?
13:49<Ammler>update will fix it?
13:49<Ammler>ok :-)
13:49<SmatZ>should be fixed in r14564
13:49<+glx>SmatZ: you have an highlight on Assertion ?
13:49<SmatZ>glx: :-) no
13:50<SmatZ>good idea though
13:50<planetmaker>it would fit, though ;)
13:52*frosch123 wonders whether babyottd will ever create a context for "assertion" -> "already fixed"
13:52<SmatZ>hmm that sound I chose is empty
13:53<SmatZ>hmm the problem is somewhere else, I need to install arts :-x
13:54<frosch123>arn't notification sounds generally annoying?
13:54<SmatZ>I don't know, never used them
13:54<George>planetmaker: george: The only thing which we can do - just like you - is keeping the _current_ grf pack up to date.
13:54<George>_Current_ GRFs are beta 5 only
13:54<planetmaker>well. But servers cannot update on a daily basis.
13:55<planetmaker>You don't upgrade mid game.
13:55<planetmaker>And beta5 (or a newer version) will be in the next release.
13:56<George>They are beta 5 over a week
13:56<George>BTW, beta 5 can be used instead of beta 4 in the savegames, they should work. Let me know if not ;)
13:56<planetmaker>for a continuous upgrade you need automatic download.
13:56<planetmaker>that's an idea, but yet not reality.
13:57<planetmaker>you should allow a bit of time to spread around. It's also not really practical to update a whole grf pack for the update of two grfs.
13:58<@petern>automatic grf updates!
13:58<planetmaker>yes :)
13:58<planetmaker>well. download :P
13:59<Ammler>petern: I see GRFPack 8 that way :P
13:59<planetmaker>I still like the idea a lot
13:59<Ammler>as of there is no pack anymore
13:59<Ammler>just SpComb's nice patch :-)
14:04<SpComb>someone's talking in the future sense
14:08<planetmaker>SpComb: got a linky for me to test?
14:08<ln->@seen Bjarni
14:08<@DorpsGek>ln-: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 17 hours, 3 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <Bjarni> goodnight (what's left of it anyway)
14:09<SpComb>planetmaker: there's no actually working patch, though, got stuck on integrating my code with OpenTTD's network code
14:10<planetmaker>oh :( I hoped you'd have a provisional patch for that.
14:10<SpComb>well, the code exists as a hg repo, although I haven't updated it for a while
14:10<planetmaker>hm... is it online?
14:10<SpComb>three months stale
14:11*planetmaker clones
14:12<Ammler>SpComb: does the server still run?
14:12<Ammler>I guess, we will create the repo with or without support of openttd
14:13<SpComb>no, it was just a django development server
14:14<Ammler>tools like windowsupdater or autostart can download the needed grfs before start...
14:14<planetmaker>that'd even render void the need for releases.
14:15<planetmaker>you could always start with the newest grfs. No long waiting for ISR 8 on the public server :)
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14:15<Ammler>planetmaker: yep, that is our main problem now.
14:15<Ammler>and also of some grf authors like George
14:16<planetmaker>but you cannot ask people to constantly stfw for new versions of their grf. It's a task which I don't relate to fun.
14:17<planetmaker>hehe. We might give commit rights to some more active grf makers.
14:23<davis->what is more difficult , coding or pixeling?
14:26<@Rubidium>probably the pixeling; I haven't read stories about a monkey pixeling, but I've seen people claiming that their monkey wrote code
14:30<Yexo> <- not exactly pixeling, but still :)
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 06 14:41:40 2008
---Logopened Thu Nov 06 14:41:51 2008
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15:00<rellig_xps>how can i change the game speed on a runing dedicated server?
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15:01<@petern>you can use 'pause' and 'unpause'
15:01<Yexo>you can't
15:01<rellig_xps>and how can i change the gamespeed before starting a map?
15:01<Yexo>you can't either
15:02<Yexo>unless you're playing with the daylength patch, but Im not sure that one works in multiplayer
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16:18<Nite_Owl>Hello All
16:18<fjb>Hi Nite_Owl
16:19<fjb>Did something change in the network protocol? I'm only geeting ip numbers without server names.
16:22<+glx>master server only send IP and port
16:22<+glx>your client then query servers
16:22<fjb>Hm, all servers appear offline.
16:22<+glx>you have a problem with UDP :)
16:23-!-welshdragon [~vista@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:23<fjb>Usually not... strange. Did ports change?
16:28<+glx>port doesn't matter
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16:44<BoneStorm>is there an beginners quide covering the most basic game fundamentals, giving some tips and tricks what to do and what not?
16:44-!-jrgcool35 [] has joined #openttd
16:45<jrgcool35>anyone here good with ottd servers.
16:45<BoneStorm>Wolf01: i browsed the playing sections and hadn't found the infos i am loking for
16:47<Wolf01>if you don't tell us what are you looking for we can't help you
16:48<jrgcool35>well if nobody here knows anything, whats the point of asking.
16:48<@Belugas>BoneStorm, apart from the wiki, there is always the possibility to browse the forums
16:48<BoneStorm>i am looking for a guide how to survive the first years
16:49<jrgcool35>ok, well when I start the server the server automatically creates a company called unnamed, is there a command for the cfg that I could put in to change the company name?
16:50<BoneStorm>which transport jobs are good right after the start
16:51<Wolf01>BoneStorm, find a coal mine and a power plant at least 50 tiles away and build a single track between them, one little train with 4-6 wagons and you should be able to make enough money
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16:52<jrgcool35>so nobody knows?
16:53<BoneStorm>Wolf01: thank you very much this kind of game experience i am looking for, i will give it a shot maybe i am surviving more than a few years
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16:54<Wolf01>I can repay all the borrow in 7 years with a good route and 2 trains
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16:55<jrgcool35>thats interesting
16:55<jrgcool35>the server doesn't create a player anymore
16:55<Char2>BoneStorm: you can as well just join some game and watch for a few minutes
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16:55<Char2>Wolf01: you should be able to repay in less than that
16:56<Char2>unless you play with some weird options
16:56<Wolf01>yes, one aircraft on a 2048 map in 2 years
16:56<BoneStorm>Char2: is it possible to record a game and replay it?
16:56<Char2>BoneStorm: dont think so
16:57<Char2>if you can host a multiplayer game, i could show you some basics, though :P
16:57<jrgcool35>You know what would be a very handy function when adding New GRFs to your list
16:57<jrgcool35>a select All
16:57<BoneStorm>Char2: i am too much a novice to host a game i think
16:58<Char2>i guess i am behind some kind of router which would not allow hosting any game
16:58<Char2>wait a second though
16:58<BoneStorm>Char2: dont mind i had to get some sleep anyway
16:59<BoneStorm>if i got more familar with openttd i can host it, have some servers around
17:00<BoneStorm>gn8 @ all, thx for your time, tips and attention
17:00<jrgcool35>another question
17:00<jrgcool35>how do i change the map size
17:00<jrgcool35>that my server generates
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17:02<dih>jrgcool35, 1. you cannot load _all_ grf's for one game
17:02<dih>you should be stuck around 54
17:02<@Rubidium>jrgcool35: <- map_x and map_y
17:02<dih>2. there are 2 config options, map_x and map_y
17:02<jrgcool35>they are 8 and 8
17:02<dih>there are some great pages
17:03<jrgcool35>i know i was looking through it
17:03<jrgcool35>im finding nothing about servers
17:03<dih>do you know the empty text field above the button named "search"
17:03<jrgcool35>i completely forgot that wiki pagese have those
17:04<dih>+ Rubidium just gave you a nice url
17:04<jrgcool35>thanks a ton
17:04<@Rubidium>ofcourse there's also a
17:05<dih>Rubidium, is there really no .htaccess file to get rid of the index.php? :-P
17:05<dih>would be so much nicer :-P
17:05<@Rubidium>for further reference: that page can be found by going to the wiki -> Gameplay manual -> Multiplayer -> Server -> Dedicated server
17:06<@Rubidium>dih: probably, but ... a) it works, b) setting up the wiki took more than enough time already, c) never change a working system, d) don't know what to change
17:07<dih>nothing - it's just some rewrite rules
17:07<dih>should be in the docs of the wiki system you are using
17:07<dih>should be a simple thing actually
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17:10<@Rubidium>dih: too bad things get very unsimple pretty soon
17:11<dih>if you always look at things that way you should know that you then could ditch anything you ever wanted to do :-P
17:12<jrgcool35>one quick question that i cant seem to find in the wiki
17:12<jrgcool35>the difficulty level of the server.
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17:14<Aali>jrgcool35: you could just generate the map from the gui and load the savegame on the server
17:14<@Rubidium>jrgcool35: what's the question?
17:14<Aali>or copy the config file from a gui install
17:15<jrgcool35>found it
17:15<jrgcool35>i already did it
17:17<jrgcool35>god i wish there was a select all function
17:17<jrgcool35>for the GRFs
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17:19<dih>jrgcool35, you cannot load that many anyway
17:20<dih>+ loading order is an issue
17:20<dih>grf's are sensitive things
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17:22<jrgcool35>What are the most common
17:22<jrgcool35>usually used on servers
17:22<jrgcool35>I'll stop bothering you gys
17:22<jrgcool35>'cause i'll just ask my friend who runs a server
17:23<Sacro>jrgcool35: there is no word length limit, please stop hitting enter when you'd normally breath in
17:23<Sacro>tis like being with someone with asthma
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17:25<jrgcool35>Ok, one final question that even my friend doesn't know.
17:26<jrgcool35>How would I make the server, automatically create a company, with a certain name and password, because on this one Europe map scenario server they did that.
17:26<Sacro>next grammer point, stop using so many commas
17:26<jrgcool35>Ok sorry.
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17:27<dih>jrgcool35, you load a savegame that has an existing company?
17:27<Sacro>not sure how to do auto-company
17:27<dih>and there is no _most used_ grf's
17:27<jrgcool35>I feel really dumb for asking that question.
17:27<dih>which one of the 2 you got answers for?
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17:28<jrgcool35>the auto-company thing
17:28<Sacro>hehe there is
17:28<dih>well - i thought it was worse asking for 'most common' grf's when there are hundres around and hundres of players and all have their own taste
17:28<Sacro>I think i use "ls /data/standard/*grf | awk '{print $8}' >> openttd.cfg"
17:30<dih>so you add your grf files with no parameters to the [version] section? :-D
17:30<jrgcool35>I'm looking at the maps based on real world, and uhhh
17:30<@Rubidium>dih: there is no most common grf?
17:30<jrgcool35>and I'm seeing this one map called Carst's Europe map, but it says you need four GRFs do I actually need them?
17:31<dih>Rubidium, plural! refering to a certain setup
17:33<@Rubidium>dih, top 5: generic trams 0.4, TTRS 3.02a, newstations 0.42, av8 1.331 and newships (in that order)
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17:36<dih>well - then i was clearly in the wrong
17:36<dih>jrgcool35, you now know the top 5 grfs :-P
17:36<@Rubidium>dih: what did you expect?
17:36<dih>with a bit of generallized statements (and untrue ones) you can even get a dev to look those things up :-D
17:37<dih>i did not expect anything
17:37<dih>i forgot the stats
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17:39<jrgcool35>I hate when you forget what your gonna say
17:39<jrgcool35>oh yea
17:39<jrgcool35>Is there a code
17:39<dih>you dont type until you remember it
17:39<jrgcool35>to give a person money in single player
17:40<@Rubidium>as it's very unlikely you're running a debug binary
17:40<planetmaker>Rubidium? Got a minute or two?
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17:40<dih>jrgcool35: is there a tool to help someone find on the internet what he/she/it is looking for?
17:40<jrgcool35>yes lol
17:40<@Rubidium>planetmaker: if you need minutes you should talk to Father Time
17:40<jrgcool35>Ok i found the cheat but it gives no instructions how to do it
17:41<planetmaker>he's very conservative, if it comes to loans
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17:41<jrgcool35>Increases available money by £10,000,000. You can press it as many times as you like.
17:41<jrgcool35>thats it no links no nothing
17:41<@Rubidium>jrgcool35: R E A D T H E W H O L E P A G E
17:42<planetmaker>Rubidium: or maybe tomorrow a few minutes, when maybe also dih is around?
17:43<dih>like when i am not about to head to bed
17:43<@Rubidium>rather ask what you want to ask than asking when you may ask me...
17:43<dih>it's a longer story
17:43<@Rubidium>ah bedtime story?
17:43<planetmaker>we want to talk grfs
17:43<dih>heck we have the 5 mins now
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17:45<dih>Rubidium, would you mind joining us in the other channel?
17:46<@Rubidium>what's so important that it needs another channel?
17:47<dih>look at it as private messages just from 2 sources :-P
17:47<planetmaker>I don't want to stick a stick into an anthive in public
17:49<@Rubidium>but... there's 3 people there
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17:53<rortom>hi all
17:54<dih>JJ is just my bot - i drag it around wherever i go (normally)
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18:27<Nite_Owl>Later all
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18:28<Char2>whats wrong with nite_owl? if he (she?) is a night owl, he should be pretty much awake right now ;)
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18:29<dih>Char, how do you know what timezone he is in?
18:30<Char2>however, the timezone where it is 4AM right now would be something like moscow / abu dhabi or the like
18:30<Char2>maybe also madagascar
18:31<Char2>i think it is not likely that he is from there
18:31<Char2>thats all
18:32<@Rubidium>I guess he's from Florida
18:32<Char2>its .... 6:30PM there now?
18:32<Char2>sth like that?
18:33<@Rubidium>depending on where in florida
18:33<Char2>and maybe the sun has just gone down there... so he might be off hunting mice :P
18:33<Char2>why is there two versions of me online?
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18:35<@Rubidium>Char2: because you've got your IRC client opened twice?
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