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#openttd IRC Logs for 2008-12-11

---Logopened Thu Dec 11 00:00:16 2008
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02:36<dihedral>TrueBrain, nice idea ;-)
02:36<dihedral>only downside would be a desync or connection issue between servers!
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02:58<SpComb>threading support on the server would be a good first step...
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03:00<@Celestar>Ave \o
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03:04<SpComb>you would need to simplfy stuff like setting orders on stations that are on a different map for your trains...
03:05<Moshe_>hello all.
03:05<Moshe_>good mornning
03:05<SpComb>yesterday's server-clustering silly-talk :)
03:06<@Celestar>morning Moshe_
03:06<@Celestar>SpComb: I see (=
03:06<Moshe_>how do i register my nick and use ghost :\
03:07<SpComb>/msg nickserv help
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03:08<Moshe>good its all setup now =)
03:08<Moshe>dam am out of coffe. brb
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03:11<Moshe>is someoen is up to a network game? i gotta test my hebrew translations...
03:13<Moshe>i guess no one.
03:13<Moshe>well ima check the servers list
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03:16<Moshe-Away>no one is using the nighlys :\
03:17<Aali>Moshe-Away: try the auto-nightly
03:18<Moshe-Away>says its needs password
03:18<Moshe-Away>thanks Aali
03:18<Moshe-Away>wierd the servers list in the site says it dosent locked
03:19<Moshe-Away>and when i try to connect my client asks for a password
03:19<Aali>it should not be password protected
03:19<Aali>companies may be, though
03:19<Moshe-Away>really maybe wrong one letmme try again
03:19<Moshe-Away>ohh maybe thats was the problem
03:20<Moshe-Away>i guess thats was it, thanks alot.
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04:02<Gekz>I read that as internet gyno :<
04:07<Sacro>i'm no expert but i'll have a poke around
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05:00<ccfreak2k>The ebaumsworld watermark makes it even funnier!
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07:45<TrueBrain>boring channel
07:50<Forked>you're boring!
07:50<TrueBrain>no, YOU ARE!
07:50<Forked>I didn't mean that.. sorry :\
07:50<TrueBrain>proof me wrong :)
07:50*Forked moons TrueBrain
07:50<TrueBrain>okay, good enough :)
07:51*Celestar pokes TrueBrain with a dictionary
07:51<Forked>I thought that would be the boring thing to do, so I ignored it =p
07:51*TrueBrain slaps Celestar with some Vista Manual
07:53<@petern>anyone familiar with xmpp?
07:53<@petern>or maybe just ejabberd
07:54<TrueBrain>I once installed an other jabber server, but doubt that would help :)
07:54<@petern>well, it should be a generic thing
07:54<TrueBrain>since when did this channel became a english-correct channel?
07:54<@petern>i want a system to send alerts to xmpp users
07:56<TrueBrain>doesn't ejabberd allow you to do that?
07:56<TrueBrain>can't remember which server I used, I just remember a nice 'Send All' button in the admin page, allowing you send a message to all registered users ;)
07:57<Forked>"must... not.... abuse... hnnngh! .."
07:58<TrueBrain>was used as post-commit hook in svn, very useful to get a message when there was a commit :)
07:58<@Celestar>What are the four stages of life?
07:58<TrueBrain>dead born alive dead
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07:59<@petern>'send all' button?
07:59<@petern>how does that work from an automated system point of view? heh
08:00<TrueBrain>Hehe, I just made a 'wget' command with correct cookies and POST values :p
08:00<@Celestar>1) You believe in Santa Claus
08:00<@Celestar>2) You don't believe in Santa Claus
08:00<@Celestar>3) You are Santa Claus
08:00<@Celestar>4) You look like Santa Claus
08:00<TrueBrain>petern: I am sure there are simpler solutions nowedays :)
08:00<@petern>i was hoping so
08:00<TrueBrain>lol @ Celestar :p
08:02<@petern>there's some kind of CAP/XMPP thing but
08:03<@petern>that seems to be only a protocol specification, rather than any particular implementation :o
08:04<@petern>didn't flyspray have jabber notification?
08:04<TrueBrain>it did
08:04<@petern>so how does that work...
08:05<TrueBrain> <- perl has a nice XMPP class
08:05<@petern>truebrain is a star
08:06<TrueBrain>the first google hit .. dunno :p
08:06<@petern>i'm obviously searching for the wrong thing :p
08:06<@petern>hmm, sendxmpp looks reasonable too
08:06<TrueBrain>I typed: jabber notification
08:13<@petern>it doesn't work, though :o
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08:15<@petern>hmm, seems to take ages to start up :o
08:16<@petern>that scritp works, sendxmpp doesn't
08:16<@petern>takes 5.5 seconds to send a single message :o
08:21<@petern>seems to be start up time
08:21<@petern>model name : Pentium MMX
08:21<@petern>cpu MHz : 199.743
08:22<+glx>way better than my 133MMX
08:22<dihedral>hehe :-P
08:22<dihedral>you'd be better off buying a second hand pda :-P
08:23<FauxFaux>Yeah, my first generation eee is significantly faster than that. In fact, I think my £30 "smart"phone is, by clock speed. :p
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08:24<FauxFaux>Heh, 200MHz OMAP 730.
08:25<@petern>hmm, i'm using an e71 now
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09:02<core>I've got a problem... so... well - I'm transporting passengers from city to city, so i place train stations so they are accepting passengers and I'm making a train transporting them... After some time I'm geting billans window and there is no incomming from this train. But when I click on train it says it gives me a lot of money. So I'm asking what is wrong!? Every else transports looks working fine... So just passengers. Sorry for my english.
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09:02<Aali>core: you're using transfer orders
09:03<core>Is it wrong?
09:06<core>ok it works...
09:07<core>Thank you very much... And sorry for troubling you ^^'
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09:09<@petern>i just cobbled together an email to xmpp system, heh
09:23<TrueBrain>and I seem to fail to simply downsize an image ..
09:23<TrueBrain>somehow that is segfaulting :(
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09:28<TrueBrain>finally ... lol
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09:32*Celestar is looking forward to working on cargodest v2 :D
09:33<TrueBrain>first finish v1 ;)
09:33<@Celestar>I am on it :D
09:38<jong>Celestar: what are your ideas there?
09:38<@Celestar>jong: route load balancing and a better generator for the destinations
09:40<jong>Celestar: maybe... you want to look at (gimme a moment)
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09:42<@Celestar>jong: explain :D
09:44<jong>Celestar: it's part of the eclipse prolog package... one could make a graph (like you did), and given sources and sinks, determine the best possible way of moving through this network (given the capacities of the nodes themselves), it is possible to find these kind of 'schedules' with sth like Eclipse
09:45<jong>Celestar: when scheduling passengers like this, they will also consider the relative resistance of certain modes of transport (for example, when there are just not enough trains moving the goods around) and take another route instead
09:46<jong>Celestar: although it should be possible to solve it with such an edge finder, there is a better eclipse package available, but I can't seem to find it
09:52<jong>anyways, maybe you want to give it a look, it might be an interesting way to solve the cargodest problem
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09:53<jong>I really have to go now, if you have any questions, send me an email
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10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... i'm afraid i skipped phase 3 of life... people keep telling me i look like santa claus
10:18<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause2: nobody defined the order in which they should come ;)
10:19<Eddi|zuHause2>i thought the numbering implied a sequence
10:21<@Celestar>jong: I'll have a look in a few days
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10:39<Eddi|zuHause2>anyone ever considered stations as package facilities? like you put cargo into containers, and then the containers on wagons or ships, not caring about what is in the container?
10:40<@Celestar>yeah exactly
10:41<Eddi|zuHause2>well, yes, but you cannot make up complicated industry chains of "goods"
10:42<Eddi|zuHause2>similarly, passengers should be divided into subgroups, so they'll be Passengers (Workers), Passengers (Tourists), ... instead of different cargos
10:43<Eddi|zuHause2>(where workers and tourists have totally different mechanisms of choosing travelling targets)
10:43<Eddi|zuHause2>(but eventually end up taking the same vehicle)
10:43<TrueBrain>code it! :p
10:44<@Celestar>who cares about it being subgroups or different cargoIDs?
10:44<Eddi|zuHause2>the vehicle cares
10:44<Eddi|zuHause2>a vehicle refitted to tourists cannot transport workers? stupid idea
10:45<@Celestar>vehicles can take several kinds of cargo
10:45<Eddi|zuHause2>not that i know of
10:45<@Celestar>some in the DBSet can, can't they?
10:45<@Celestar>like Ore and Coal or so
10:45<Eddi|zuHause2>the only vehicles that can take two cargos are planes, and that is because they are two vehicles internally
10:45<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but not at the same time
10:46<Eddi|zuHause2>they have to be refitted to one or the other
10:47<Eddi|zuHause2>just imagine a cargodest game with tourists... on each city network you have, you will have to run two kinds of trams, one refitted for passengers, and one refitted for tourists
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10:48<@Celestar>it's easier to allow a vehicle just to carry multiple cargos I think
10:49<Eddi|zuHause2>so you'll end up with a tram taking 20 passengers and 20 tourists, and if there are no tourists, but 40 passengers, they won't fill the seats?
10:49<Eddi|zuHause2>not an ideal solution either
10:49<@Celestar>a tram can carry 40 worker or 40 tourists or any combination thereof
10:50<Eddi|zuHause2>that might work, but then comes the next problem
10:50<Eddi|zuHause2>an open wagon should be able to carry 30t coal or 30t ore, but not any combination
10:50<@Celestar>O_o .. add a flag?
10:51<Eddi|zuHause2>means, as long as it is empty, it should be able to load either, but as soon as 1t of coal is in it, it should only add coal
10:52-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>next problem is newgrf, how do you extend the existing specification (refit masks) to handle multiple cargos simultaneously?
10:52*Celestar raises a hand and points to peter
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>surely, an open wagon refitted to grain should never load ore and coal
10:53<@Celestar>er ..
10:53<@Celestar>it's not Jet A-1, it's grain
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>a wagon refitted for fuel oil should not load milk and v.v.
10:54<@Celestar>A wagon that carries Jet A-1 mustn't carry anything else, not even Jet A.
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10:55<@Celestar>how about this. cargo of class CC_PASSENGER, CC_MAIL, CC_ARMOURED can be mixed, the rest not?
10:55<TrueBrain> image = filterLatitudeScale(image);
10:55<TrueBrain> image = filterReadRaw(image);
10:55<TrueBrain> image = filterLatitude(image);
10:55<TrueBrain> image = filterRescale(image, 1024);
10:55<TrueBrain>woesh .. getting there :)
10:56<@Celestar>I gotta go
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>imho, mail and goods should be able to get mixed for small branch lines
10:56<@Celestar>CU later/tomorrow
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10:56<Eddi|zuHause>the dbset simulates that by allowing the small goods wagon to be refitted to mail, but it just isn't the same...
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10:57<Eddi|zuHause>on that note... we should have railtypes with speedlimits
10:57<TrueBrain>write a plan!
10:57<TrueBrain>write a plan!
10:57<TrueBrain>wrong screen
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>60, 80, 120, 160, 220, 350km/h [exponentially expensive]
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10:59<Eddi|zuHause>each one in an electrified and unelectrified version
11:02<TrueBrain>[latitudeScale] Initial region (left: 3.26, bottom: 51.00, width: 3.00, height: 3.00).
11:02<TrueBrain>[readRaw] Reading region (left: 2.21, bottom: 51.00, width: 5.10, height: 3.00).
11:02<TrueBrain>[readRaw] Loading 2 HMP file(s).
11:02<TrueBrain>[latitude] Correcting image of size 3062x1800; new size will be 1800x1800.
11:02<TrueBrain>[rescale] Rescaling image of size 1800x1800; new size will be 1024x1024.
11:02<TrueBrain>[png] Writing image of size 1024x1024 to 'test.png'.
11:02<TrueBrain>almost there ..
11:02<TrueBrain>in the shop
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>you convert the resolution twice?
11:03<TrueBrain>kind of; but not in the way you suggest
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11:04<TrueBrain>first one is a latitude scale, the other is a rescale
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11:22<TrueBrain>hmm .. if I did this correct, and I think I did ...
11:22<TrueBrain>the Netherlands is around 25 meters below sea level ..
11:22<TrueBrain>which is something I doubt ..
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11:25<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds a little much, indeed
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you took the wrong sea level?
11:25<TrueBrain>you ahve a good point there
11:25<TrueBrain>well, not in that way
11:26<TrueBrain>but .. I scaled the normal heights from 0 to 15
11:26<TrueBrain>where .. 0 is sea :p
11:26<TrueBrain>should be 1 to 15 of course
11:26<TrueBrain>much better :)
11:26<TrueBrain>tnx Eddi|zuHause :)
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11:28<TrueBrain>that is how much of The Netherlands is below sea level :)
11:32<TrueBrain>now I wonder if that file is already loadable in OpenTTD ..
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11:32<TrueBrain>I am afraid the palette size if wrong ..
11:34<TrueBrain>haha, yes, it looks wrong :p Lol :)
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11:48<TrueBrain> <- thisone you can load in OpenTTD :)
11:48*Rubidium is happy to see that he wouldn't drown ;)
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11:57<Moshe>sup all
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11:59<TrueBrain>making a good map of The Netherlands is impossible :p
12:00<TrueBrain>parts that should be water are just 1 M below sealevel
12:00<TrueBrain>parts that shouldn't be water are 4 M below sealevel .. :p
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12:09<Eddi|zuHause>use canals/rivers as seashore?
12:10<TrueBrain>I still need a good database of rivers and stuff
12:11<TrueBrain>same as country borders
12:11<TrueBrain>last time I tried VMAP0
12:11<TrueBrain>but .. that dataset has none-closed vectors
12:11<TrueBrain>so you have 'leaking' rivers, flooding the whole country :p
12:25<benjamingoodger>OSM would seem to have very poor river coverage
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12:28<FauxFaux>OSM's quality varies greatly by area, as with any user contributed data. :)
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12:55<TrueBrain>OSM, online soccer manager...
12:56<Prof_Frink>OpenStreetMap, SillyBrain
12:57<TrueBrain>not really a database I can access in a simple way ..
12:58<TrueBrain>ah, they do have an API ..
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13:01<FauxFaux>You can also download the entire thing as postgis or xml.
13:01<FauxFaux>Or countries etc.
13:02<TrueBrain>somehow I don't think download 306M elements is such a good idea ;)
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13:04<TrueBrain>wow, the API interfaces are VERY slow ... omg ..
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13:06<thingwath>ah, OSM, my favorite example of XML misuse
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13:07<TrueBrain>I can't find a method to localte a country ..
13:07<TrueBrain>it can only locate towns or streets or .. who gives a damn about the rest :p
13:07<thingwath>I don't know if there is any
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13:09<FauxFaux>I have to admit, it is hillarious xml misuse.
13:09<thingwath>this is from OSM
13:10<FauxFaux>Eew, ps.
13:10<thingwath>any better format for vector graphics?
13:11<FauxFaux>Well, we are talking of xml abuse, svg, pdf, etc.
13:11<FauxFaux>I'm mainly whining as I don't have anything that renders ps. :p
13:11<thingwath>I didn't try SVG
13:11<Wolf01>hey devs, are you planning to have holidays for the entire week? I think I found another bug, or maybe it's the same of the other time which I thought it was fixed
13:12<TrueBrain>damn, osm really is slow ..
13:12<thingwath>there are like ten thousand lines, SVG viewer would just die, I think
13:12<TrueBrain>exporting takes about 30 seconds ..
13:13<thingwath>FauxFaux: it's just "map" of railway lines in the czech republic, not really interesting
13:13<Wolf01>I'm trying to send ships to depots with "go to nearest depot" order, but seem it is really impossible to add it at any point of the list
13:13<TrueBrain>any other databases for things like country borders, and rivers?
13:13<TrueBrain>(and if possible: roads too ;))
13:13<thingwath>and OSM doesn't offer much metadata
13:13<FauxFaux> ?
13:14<TrueBrain>not really a database ;)
13:14<FauxFaux>So picky! :p
13:14<TrueBrain>I like to auto-generate images
13:14<TrueBrain>not ... well .. manually insert them :p
13:16<FauxFaux>( makes inkscape so horribly sad.)
13:16<thingwath>That world map doesn't contain any metadata :-/
13:17<thingwath>Just paths...
13:17<FauxFaux>Countries and the names of said countries, rite?
13:17<thingwath>How can I know, that some path is border of some country?
13:18<TrueBrain>so .. VMAP0 it has to be ..
13:20*FauxFaux shrugs.
13:21<TrueBrain>worst part is, that it means I have to read into OGDI again :s
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13:34<TrueBrain>I hate bandwidth trottling .. then your download goes at 20 mbit/sec ... and all of a sudden falls to 1 kbit/sec ... then after N seconds it goes up to 20 mbit/sec again, etc etc
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14667 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-12-11 18:45:04
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 1207 fixed by khaloofah (1207)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 30 fixed by fanioz (30)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: malay - 21 fixed by Syed (21)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 52 fixed, 3 changed by rmrebelo (55)
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14:02<TrueBrain>so Eddi|zuHause, how is your patch for your idea going? ;)
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14:10<Eddi|zuHause>as if i had time for that...
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14:18<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 0**0
14:18<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 1
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>very interesting...
14:19<frosch123>@calc -1**1.5
14:19<@DorpsGek>frosch123: -i
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>now that is cool ;)
14:21<frosch123>@calc (-1)**1.5
14:21<@DorpsGek>frosch123: -i
14:21<Forked>@calc 0/0
14:21<@DorpsGek>Forked: Error: float division
14:21*Forked floats
14:22*frosch123 should better not trust dorpsgek too much
14:23<Forked>I keep reading "DropsGeek" .. and think it's possibly a bully-bot
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14:29<TrueBrain>out of diskspace .. brr
14:30<TrueBrain>it requires 120+ GiB to work with mapgen .. lol :)
14:31<TrueBrain>libogdi creates two binaries called 'example1' and 'example2'
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14:35<TrueBrain>hi Yexo :)
14:35<TrueBrain>how nice to see you again :)
14:35<Yexo>hello TrueBrain
14:36<Yexo>been busy the last weeks, so not much time for openttd
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14:50<Eddi|zuHause>argh... i hate databases...
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>i can't tell it "just fucking do what i want"
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14:51<TrueBrain>Yexo: shut happens :)
14:55<TrueBrain>grr .. ogdi can't read vmap0 data out of the box .. you need to rename files like 'cat' to 'cat.' ....
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15:13<TrueBrain>and 'cat.' is an invalid name over CIFS .. sigh ...
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15:57<Sacro>Any VS gurus here?
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>why do i have ru.wikipedia in my browser history?
16:01<Wolf01>better than having pr0n sites
16:01<Sacro>Also, I thoguht OpenTTD had bitmaps in the VS project...
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>in media/?
16:01<Sacro>I don't see those in the VS project
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>in some .rc file?
16:02<Sacro>Hmm, there are two ico files
16:02<Sacro>I want to work out how to copy bitmaps from the Resources into the binary dir
16:04<Sacro>I can do it just fine in C#
16:04<Sacro>but not in C+++
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16:06<Terkhen>hello :)
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16:09<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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16:15<Sacro>glx: are you around?
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17:02<+glx>Sacro: why?
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17:06<Sacro>glx: I've figured out the custom build stuff, but now fopen isn't working
17:06<Sacro>fopen("file.bmp", "rb");
17:06<Sacro>but it always returns null when debugging wtih VS
17:06<+glx>what do you want exactly?
17:07<Sacro>but seems to laod fine when running the binary
17:07<Sacro>which makes debugging impossible
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17:19<Eddi|zuHause>@calc sqrt(120**2+62**2)
17:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 135.070352039
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>@calc sqrt(120**2+62**2)/120*62
17:20<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 69.7863485536
17:21<benjamingoodger>@calc meaning of life
17:21<@DorpsGek>benjamingoodger: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
17:23<Prof_Frink>@calc ultimate answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything
17:23<@DorpsGek>Prof_Frink: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: this is not the google calculator
17:24<benjamingoodger>Eddi|zuHause: that's what I was *tut*ing about
17:24<Prof_Frink>@calc e**(i*pi)+1
17:24<@DorpsGek>Prof_Frink: 0
17:25<benjamingoodger>would make more sense to pipe it through the google
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>that one is simple ;)
17:26<benjamingoodger>@calc 12kg in lb
17:26<@DorpsGek>benjamingoodger: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
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17:26<TrueBrain>stop toying with DorpsGek .. take it to a pm with him ..
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>benjamingoodger: i'd presume it's getting piped into the eval() function of the next best scripting language available
17:27<Prof_Frink>It's 10:27pm. Is that pm enough?
17:27<benjamingoodger>heh, can I quote you on that?
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>why waste net traffic contacting google?
17:28<TrueBrain>and @calc is a wrapper around 'bc'
17:28<benjamingoodger>why waste net traffic using a bot, and communicating this to everyone in the room, when you have that scripting language on localhost?
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>because this channel is accessed faster?
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>normally i'd use the maple bot on the other channel, but that is not available 24/7
17:29<benjamingoodger>by speed, yes, but not by volume. the effort required to communicate a message to 106 computers is surely larger than that between 2
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>but each client only sends one message
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>the other traffic is for the irc servers to handle
17:30<benjamingoodger>ok, then, let's divide by 2 and add on the number of IRC servers...
17:30<benjamingoodger>hmm, still more than 2, I think
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>you should differentiate: effort of me, effort of my computer/line, effort of the other's computer/line, and effort of the rest of the world
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>[priority in that order]
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17:32<benjamingoodger>you know what, I think I'm just going to stop talking. seems easier
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17:36<+glx>@calc i**2
17:36<@DorpsGek>glx: -1
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18:16<svippery>glx: Does DorpsGek use Python syntax?
18:18<+glx>it's a pybot IIRC
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>svippery: if you read a few lines back, you'd read that it uses bc as backend
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23:26<Guest873>any1 there
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 12 00:00:18 2008