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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-07

---Logopened Wed Jan 07 00:00:53 2009
00:09<WhiteRhino>What's up? And, g'morning. =D
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00:14<lordnokon>i cant view my income and cost
00:15<lordnokon>only my total balance, and its not minimized
00:17<lordnokon>is there a way to stop industries to go up and down in production and only stay on one amount
00:17<lordnokon>and how do i create multi headed trains without having one at the beginning and the end
00:18<WhiteRhino>I actually don't have much of an answer for most of those questions.. except that I think you can only put a second engine on the rear of a train.
00:18<Eddi|zuHause>you buy another engine and attach it like a wagon
00:23<lordnokon>let me try that quickly
00:26<lordnokon>ok seem to work, just a shame you cant remove the back enige
00:26<Eddi|zuHause>oh, btw. there is an industry production cheat
00:26<Eddi|zuHause>where you can manually adjust production at will
00:27<lordnokon>ja i know about that option, but it sucks to have to change 500 industies all the time
00:30<Eddi|zuHause>some engines are forced to be double headed, you cannot remove the rear head of such an engine
00:30<WhiteRhino>Can you put an extra pair of engines on if they're already double-headed? Like T.I.M. =P
00:31<Eddi|zuHause>you can use vehicle set grfs, they usually offer more options on train constellations
00:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes, WhiteRhino
00:32<lordnokon>eddi how to i do the vechicle set grfs
00:34<Eddi|zuHause>that is explained in great detail on the wiki
00:38<lordnokon>ill have a look
00:39<lordnokon>dammit this finances window is starting to become a huge problem for me, because i cant see what my vechiles, planes, and trains are making
00:40<Eddi|zuHause>do you have a screenshot?
00:40<lordnokon>where must a send it to
00:41<Eddi|zuHause>to an image uploading site, e.g. imageshack
00:42<lordnokon>ag sorry my bad
00:50<Eddi|zuHause>tip: if you type E<tab>, i will actually take notice that you want to tell me something
00:52<Eddi|zuHause>that window indeed looks weird...
00:55<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i have seen anything like this before
00:55<lordnokon>it just happenend out of the blue, i take it with all the modifications the amounts can go into the billions and more??
00:56<Eddi|zuHause>sorry, i can't help you there
00:57<goodger>hmm, no obvious overflow
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01:00<lordnokon>i remember in the old days if you started to make to much money you went into the red
01:00<lordnokon>but nothing like that
01:02<Eddi|zuHause>that has been solved
01:04<lordnokon>do you think i should try and reinstall the openttd
01:05<Eddi|zuHause>that's a typical windows mentality
01:05<Eddi|zuHause>"if it does not work, just reinstall it"
01:05<Eddi|zuHause>you can try defragmentation as well...
01:06<Eddi|zuHause>or you perform a rain dance
01:06<goodger>..which has arisen out of the fact that windows problems are commonly solved with reinstallation of either windows or the offending software, since file corruption apparently occurs spontaneously
01:06<Eddi|zuHause>that has probably a higher chance of actually finding the cause of the problem
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01:14*petern considers the benefits of tea
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01:54<goodger>morning dihedral
01:56<goodger>dihedral: snow on thursday :D
02:00<+dihedral>we have had snow here since monday :-)
02:00<goodger>I know
02:00<goodger>I want some
02:01<goodger>I haven't seen any snow since 2005-11-25
02:02<Eddi|zuHause>snow is so rare that you remember the exact dates?
02:02<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: yes. yes it is
02:02<lordnokon>dammit its 38 degree's here
02:02*edeca waves and goes to work
02:03<goodger>lordnokon: centigrade, or obscure US customary scale?
02:04<lordnokon>uhmmm not sure have much that is in centigrade
02:04<lordnokon>let me check
02:05<Eddi|zuHause>actually, Farenheit was a german
02:05<goodger>lordnokon: I mean, you said "38 degrees" --- do you mean celsius or fahrenheit?
02:05<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: that may be so, but it doesn't mean the scale he invented is now an obscure US-only customary unit
02:06<goodger>*is not now
02:06<goodger>I've had too much wine
02:07<lordnokon>38 celsius
02:09<+dihedral>lordnokon, where are you from?
02:09<goodger>dihedral: south africa
02:11<+dihedral>lordnokon, you wanna do me a fav?
02:11<+dihedral>could you join the autonightly game, for like 5 mins?
02:15<@Rubidium>petern: what has modified your nightly server?
02:24<lordnokon>thats correct im from south africa
02:24<lordnokon>im a systems administrator
02:25<goodger>lordnokon: "you wanna do me a fav?" means "do you want to do a favour for me?" which means "if you would like to help me,"
02:25<lordnokon>i know what it means
02:26<lordnokon>what do you want me to do
02:26<goodger>oh, ok
02:26<goodger>he wants you to join autonightly game
02:26<lordnokon>i've neva done it before so you guys would have to explain to me
02:31<petern>Rubidium, a locally applied patch, clearly
02:33<+dihedral>lordnokon, you do know how to download openttd and start it up, right?
02:34<+dihedral>i mean - i assume you do - you are chilling in the openttd channel
02:34<+dihedral>you just need to get the latest nightly and join the game
02:34<lordnokon>lol yes i do
02:34<lordnokon>where do i get the latest nightly
02:34<lordnokon>guys you must remember im very new to all of this opensource changes on ttd
02:35<+dihedral>which os?
02:35<lordnokon>i use to play this game like 10 years ago if not longer
02:35<lordnokon>vista 64
02:36<+dihedral>i just assume to see a 'bad packet' error
02:36<+dihedral>i have seen it a few times with people connecting from SA
02:38<@Rubidium>dihedral: you should've shown him
02:39<@Rubidium>cause tomorrow the link you gave will not "work" anymore
02:40<goodger>Rubidium: surely he won't be using that link tomorrow
02:40<+dihedral>Rubidium, he said he's in sys-admin
02:40<+dihedral>i assume he will be capable of finding stuff out for himself actually
02:41<lordnokon>where must i extract the files to
02:41<+dihedral>if not - he's gonna be the worst sys-admin i've seen (apart from that one kid in the forums)
02:41<@Rubidium>dihedral: ever seen "The IT Crowd"?
02:41<Forked>Did you try turning it off and on again?
02:41<+dihedral>Rubidium, now that i see the response - i get your point
02:41<+dihedral>lordnokon, what do you do with an archive?
02:41<+dihedral>extract it!
02:41<goodger>have you noticed that Roy wears a different t-shirt in every episode?
02:42<+dihedral>Rubidium, no - i have not seen it - i'll see if i can find something on youtube :-)
02:42<@Rubidium>well... I was more referring to "Jen" as being in IT
02:43<+dihedral> <- hehehe
02:44<goodger>dihedral: it's about unmotivated computer support technician Roy, his extremely nerdy (almost certainly autistic) colleague Moss, their boss Jen, who knows nothing at all about computers and lied on her CV, and their boss, an unattractive fat idiot who constantly lusts after jen
02:44<goodger>it's gold
02:45<goodger>"this video is not available in your country", it says. hrmph
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02:45<lordnokon>geez guys i know ive got to extract lol, but to which dir the game dir??
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02:45<lordnokon>sorry, like i keep saying im totaly new at the opensource ttd
02:46<+dihedral>lordnokon, that has nothing to do with it being open source
02:46<+dihedral>if you extract the zip you downloaded, you will find a magical file
02:47<+dihedral>it's called README.txt
02:47<lordnokon>ive extracted the files
02:47<+dihedral>now! if you open that file, say with your prefered editor (let the be MS Word 2008 if you want) you can actually read the contents of that file
02:48<+dihedral>it will - stragely enough - tell you all about the wee tid bits of getting it to run!
02:48<+dihedral>what have i bought upon myself?
02:48<lordnokon>i know that, but its so much easier to just tell me what you want me to do
02:48<lordnokon>do you want me to install the patch, because i've already got that version installed
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02:48<+dihedral><lordnokon> im a systems administrator <- i dont believe you no more
02:48<lordnokon>or do you want me to copy those dir to the game folder
02:49<+dihedral>lordnokon, get back to work ;-)
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02:49<+dihedral>sorry - but i did expect you to use your thinker a bit for yourself!
02:50<goodger>dihedral: he might be an MSCE...
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02:50<lordnokon>msce 2000/2003/2008 with ISA and exchange
02:50<+dihedral>i know it's hard to get there.... but seriously...?
02:50<goodger>there you go!
02:51<goodger>he's not a system administrator at all, he only thinks he is
02:51<WhiteRhino>Now I look like the simple guy around here but what's an MSCE? >.>
02:51<goodger>WhiteRhino: microsoft certified engineer... basically it means you know how to use a point-and-click server configuration interface for windows servers
02:52<Forked>I've never had much faith in the microsoft certs
02:52<lordnokon>thats why world wide 95% of all companies use them... so what does that tell you
02:52<WhiteRhino>Bah. I come here for the people, so sometimes I'd rather talk to the people. So nyah.
02:52<goodger>lordnokon: that tells me that microsoft's marketing department is extremely well-funded
02:52<lordnokon>oh come on guys, just because im nor sure what you want me to do with the files doesnt mean i dont know what im doing
02:53*goodger is going to try the everyman sleep schedule in order to try and sort out his brain
02:54<WhiteRhino>If I looked up every question I had instead of asking you nice people, I'd likely never have said word one.
02:54<goodger>lordnokon: being able to compile software from a tarball in a standard build environment is considered basic knowledge
02:54<+dihedral>lordnokon, get it running (there is an *.exe!!! you should know what that is!)
02:54<lordnokon>which one
02:54<lordnokon>there's two
02:54<+dihedral>goodger, he got a build!
02:54<goodger>this tarball is precompiled!
02:55<goodger>lordnokon: the one called openttd.exe
02:55<goodger>and no! there are _not_ two executables in that tarball
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02:56<lordnokon>give me a sec to copy all of those files to the game directory
02:56<lordnokon>oh come goodger get over it now
02:56<WhiteRhino>*patpats Goodger* It'll be allright.
02:56<goodger>lordnokon: you're meant to just extract the whole tarball to a new directory
02:57<goodger>(and then copy data files from your original ttd, as it says in the readme)
02:57<goodger>thanks WhiteRhino
02:57<goodger>hmm, for some reason my cat smells overwhelmingly of cat food, despite not having recently eaten any
02:57<+dihedral><dihedral> lordnokon, you do know how to download openttd and start it up, right?
02:57<+dihedral><lordnokon> lol yes i do
02:58<WhiteRhino>Perhaps the scent comes from the wrong end.
02:58<goodger>WhiteRhino: I'm not smelling that end...
02:58<+dihedral>goodger, the digestion system :-)
02:58<+dihedral>does not always have to lead to the rear! :-P
02:58<WhiteRhino>The cat could carry with it a cloud of catfood funk. Just a thought.
02:59<+dihedral>and some cats to have a poop-face :-D
02:59<WhiteRhino>Rrgh! This website links to a downloadable file.. but that link just redirects you to the site's main page!
03:00<goodger>hmm, my car's windscreen has now iced up; since it's facing the house, which is warm and poorly insulated, this means the exterior temperature is exceedingly low
03:00<goodger>WhiteRhino: what page?
03:00<+dihedral>it's not openttd - sorry, there is no support for that
03:01<WhiteRhino>Oh. I was more lamenting out loud, sorry. >.<
03:01<lordnokon>sorry had to attend to another problem
03:01<goodger>I didn't know gamershell was still running
03:01<lordnokon>ok i extract all the files into a dir
03:01<WhiteRhino>It's certainly not running well. =P
03:01<lordnokon>you want me now to copy all of those files into the openttd dir or into the orginal location of the game
03:01<goodger>lordnokon: have you actually read the readme file?
03:01<goodger>no, we want you to copy the _data_ files into the _data_ directory
03:02<goodger>as it says in the README FILE
03:02<lordnokon>ok there's a data dir
03:02<lordnokon>copy those files to the installation dir
03:02<WhiteRhino>This is becoming like.. my mom trying to use the computer bad.
03:02<goodger>to the DATA directory!
03:03<lordnokon>ok i did that
03:03<WhiteRhino>Like Abbott and Costello but about computers.
03:03<+dihedral>lordnokon, read
03:04<+dihedral>seriously! i am not in the mood at all anymore to support that!
03:04<goodger>I didn't know MSCE stood for "mostly stupid, constantly emetic"
03:04<lordnokon>go to hell
03:05<lordnokon>all im getting now is that the openttddw.grf is corrupted or missing
03:06*goodger would go to bed, but he's too intrigued by lordnokon
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03:07<goodger>specifically, how long will he take before deciding to read the readmefile
03:07<+dihedral>perhaps [com]buster has still got some popcorn?
03:07<goodger>ooh, good idea
03:07<WhiteRhino>Now, do you say your name like "Wooley" or is it like "Wall" but with a funny-E?
03:08<goodger>WhiteRhino: wolle is pronounced "vol", possibly with a short "a" ("volla"), it's german
03:08<goodger>for wool
03:09<WhiteRhino>That's actually pretty nifty. I learn something every day.
03:09<goodger>baumwolle meaning cotton... I learned this from my clothing labels
03:09<WhiteRhino>Honestly, and I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but the only German I learned as a kid came from Wolfenstein 3D. >.>
03:10<goodger>WhiteRhino: I sat through two years of german lessons in secondary school. I think your exposure was slightly better for learning from
03:11<goodger>I'm not old enough to have played W3D when it was considered "current"...
03:11<WhiteRhino>How old are you? o.O
03:11<+dihedral>you dont ask girls that!
03:11<goodger>die, dihedral :P
03:11<WhiteRhino>Jesus wept, I feel like an old man now.
03:12<goodger>I think I played it when I was 10
03:12<+dihedral>WhiteRhino, for that you do behave rather childish - so no need to get irate!
03:12<WhiteRhino>I behave childishly? >.>
03:12<goodger>WhiteRhino: I thought you were younger than me
03:12<lordnokon>i've read the readme.txt file and like all other shit readme.txt tells me nothing more then i already worked out for myself
03:13<goodger>hmm... my car's door seems to have frozen shut. I will have to use the de-icer on it to open it --- unfortunately the de-icer is inside the car
03:13<+dihedral>well - then you should know what you are looking for by now!
03:13<+dihedral>and what you need to do
03:13<+dihedral>and the rest of the info is on the wiki pages
03:13<+dihedral>and seriously - you are supposed to be a sys-admin
03:13<goodger>dihedral: s/sysadmin/msce
03:14<WhiteRhino>And I'm not really irate; I'm actually having a pretty good time right now.
03:15<lordnokon>=dihedral system admin and games have nothing to do with each other,
03:15<lordnokon>let me ask you this, can you setup a full redantend blade servers with clusertering and a SAN storage solution to replecated between two sites
03:16<goodger>lordnokon: no, but you cannot determine what file to run, in a directory with one executable
03:17<+dihedral>lordnokon, i am in IT, i have a few years of sysadmin experience administrating linux systems, and i am in software development right now
03:18<+dihedral>and to me sysadmin mean, being able to read documentation, understanding it, finding out stuff for yourself, etc!
03:18<+dihedral>i mean - you are asking questions we get from 14 year olds
03:18<goodger>"wikipedia --- a non-profit project" --- ha! bollocks
03:19<lordnokon>this is a chat room right, where help is suppose to be given to people who do not know how to use everything. Correct!! then stop being so harsh on people.
03:19<lordnokon>i just thought it would be easier to ask people who's been playing with this game for a long time on what to do.
03:19<goodger>we aren't obliged to help, you know
03:19<lordnokon>no get some stupid insualts from people like you
03:20<goodger>we try to help, but it's infuriating being asked questions that are put into the readme file for the express purpose of stopping people from having to ask them
03:20<lordnokon>goodger then shut your mouth then if you do not want to help
03:20<goodger>therefore, if you refuse to read the readme file, you are open to ridicule
03:20<WhiteRhino>Ohh dear. *ducks and covers*
03:21<+dihedral>lordnokon, bad choice of words if you are the one wanting something from people in this channel
03:21<goodger>I was under the impression that even MSCEs were trained to read documentation before calling the support line
03:21<lordnokon>no, i asked to be help, i read the readme file, and all you people are doing is kakking me out
03:21<+dihedral>sure :-)
03:22<+dihedral>you said 'yes' when i wondered if you could setup openttd
03:22<+dihedral>so you kinda asked for it
03:22<+dihedral>now - lets start windowsish for ya
03:22<+dihedral>extract the archive to it's own folder
03:23<+dihedral>(meaning there is nothing else in that folder but the stuff you extracted)
03:23<+dihedral>you read the read me, and find out what you require to run the game (some extra grf's)
03:23<+dihedral>and you also find out where you need to copy them to. (hint: the data folder)
03:23<lordnokon>i did copy them to that folder
03:24<+dihedral>then you double click (with the left mouse button) on openttd.exe
03:24<lordnokon>and once is started to launch the game i got a error
03:24<+dihedral> did you find the original game files?
03:24<+dihedral>i mean those files you are supposed to find on the TTD CD-Rom
03:24<lordnokon>yes i have
03:25<+dihedral> etc.
03:25<lordnokon>i see that file
03:25<+dihedral>and you do have an openttdw.grf too, right?
03:25<lordnokon>in the orginal game folder or in program files
03:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14885 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: if settings minimum != 1 and 0-is-disabled is enabled, one could set the setting in-game to an out-of-valid-range value.
03:26<lordnokon>in openttd file yes
03:26<lordnokon>got that file
03:26<+dihedral>it should be in the data folder iirc
03:27<+dihedral>anyway - try replacing it with this file
03:28<+dihedral>lordnokon, now please give me an honest answer: did you ever play OpenTTD?
03:28*goodger and WhiteRhino sit in the corner silently, smirking and trying not to giggle
03:28<@Rubidium>what does the readme say about the placement of openttdw.grf?
03:28<Forked>are you still in need of popcorn?
03:28<lordnokon>your openttdw.grf is corrupted or missing! the file was part of your installation
03:28<goodger>Forked: not to so much an extent, but thanks for the offer
03:29<@Rubidium>or rather... what does the readme say about files installed with openttd?
03:29<goodger>I have cornflakes now
03:30<WhiteRhino>Wonder if Thief could work on this box I'm on with Windows ME.
03:31<goodger>Me? ugh :S
03:31<WhiteRhino>Yeah.. it's my mom's computer. Rather, the computer my dad put together for my mom so she would "stop screwing up his." Apparently she isn't so good at the whole Start->Shutdown proceedure and goes straight for the power button.
03:32<goodger>...but the power button should trigger an ACPI instruction that begins that same start->shutdown procedure
03:32<goodger>does the machine predate ACPI? :S
03:33<WhiteRhino>My family uses a sort of powerstrip with switchse for the different stuff plugged in. One for the modem, one for the speakers, etc. She would just flick the Master switch off and everything shuts down.
03:33<goodger>oh god.
03:33<WhiteRhino>Now personally I do the shutdown dealy and wait for everything to shut off on its own before I turn that off.
03:34<+dihedral>i have all my computer stuff connected to remote controlled power strips :-D
03:34<+dihedral>i just press a button on the remove to turn various stuff on or off
03:34<WhiteRhino>The only electronics that she seems savvy with is a handheld Yahtzee game they got at a yard sale.
03:34<goodger>my computer has been running continually for five days, and before that, there was a power cut
03:34<+dihedral>lights, computers, etc. :-)
03:34<goodger>s/cut/outage/ [en_US]
03:35<WhiteRhino>I can generally deduce what your fancy words might mean if someone in the US said them. ;)
03:35<goodger>did you try explaining in graphic detail that the disk heads will grind themselves into the platters in a manner reminiscent of an airliner crashing into a city?
03:36<WhiteRhino>My dad used to, and she'd even write herself notes on how to do stuff. Apparently she fell back into the habit of hitting the Master switch 'cus my dad was yelling like an angry gorilla the other night.
03:36<goodger>with "yaaaooorm" noises and flailing of arms
03:36<WhiteRhino>Just about expected him to start doing the diagonal simian-bash move with his arms and stuff on the junk in the room.
03:37<WhiteRhino>*cough* Anyway, yeah, so... she hasn't used the computer again in quite a while since actually. That I know of, given my odd sleep habits.
03:38<goodger>well, that will probably extend the life of your FAT32 filesystem by a while...
03:38<WhiteRhino>How did we get on this..? Oh, right, Thief. Kinda hesitant to try installing it yet..
03:38<+dihedral>hehe - someone has gone awfully quiet
03:38<goodger>though I'm surprised that the WinMe installation has survived this long
03:38<goodger>dihedral: indeed
03:39<WhiteRhino>Perhaps it's working and, like me, the little trains and cars have hypnotized him.
03:39<goodger>have you reformatted and reinstalled it regularly, or has it managed to survive a whole decade?
03:39<goodger>even windows XP can only last 30 months in my experience
03:39<WhiteRhino>I'm actually not sure when they hooked this beast up. I only had to move back in about a week before Thanksgiving.
03:40<goodger>*mutter* third thursday... week before... er...
03:40<goodger>early mid november?
03:41<WhiteRhino>Oh, right. *cough* Thanksgiving is a holiday on the third Thursday of November. It's generally centered around a big meal involving turkey, mashed potatos and such. =D
03:41<goodger>yes, yes, I know
03:41<goodger>I'm just having trouble working out when you're talking about when you say "the week before thanksgiving 2008"
03:41<WhiteRhino>*snickers* I had heard that people over on the other side of the map don't celebrate (and occasionally don't know) it.
03:42<WhiteRhino>Ahh, right. So like... halfway through November, yeah.
03:42<goodger>96% of the world do not celebrate it AFAIK
03:42<goodger>i.e. only the USA
03:42<WhiteRhino>I'm not used to chatting with so many people who are not living in the US. It's kinda refreshing.
03:43<goodger>just out of curiosity, did you get laid off due to the recession or do you enjoy the wallpaper in your parents' house?
03:43<WhiteRhino>Closest I've come is when I stumbled on the Spanish server while playing Gunbound.
03:43<WhiteRhino>Well.. I lived in Illinois for a little over a year before they got together a list of my faults and kicked me out.
03:43<goodger>ah. inconsiderate of them
03:44<goodger>well, virtually everyone in #openttd is from northern central europe, since this is the only place in the world with a decent rail network
03:44<WhiteRhino>Yeah, but I can sort of see it from their side at times. I then lived with a friend in Vermont who - no word of a lie - kicked me out because I sometimes doze off while my mind is wandering and I'm watching TV and I start snoring.
03:45<WhiteRhino>Yeah. Train stations and rails are pretty rare in most of the US that I've been to. I used to show up at a station an hour early to pick up a friend on his commute from work just so I could watch the trains go by.
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03:46<goodger>I can see the train station from my house, it goes all the way to london without stopping...
03:46<goodger>well, it stops, but it doesn't terminate
03:46<WhiteRhino>Nice. Ever considered hopping on a car and seeing if you can make it all the way there? =D
03:48<goodger>no, unfortunately the new passengers are asked for their tickets within about twenty minutes [two stops] and the conductors change twice through the journey so they do a complete ticket check
03:48<WhiteRhino>Or is that as weird a question as it looks when I reread it for myself? =P
03:49<goodger>it's possible to do my daily commute without buying a ticket, however, as the conductors don't bother to check for tickets during this 8-mile period
03:49<WhiteRhino>Ahh. Sometimes when freight was heading through the station I'd wait at, I'd get an urge to try and hop onto one of the cars that carried the big metal containers and see where it took me.
03:49<goodger>however, instead of fare-dodging on the train, I drive in
03:50<goodger>since fare-dodging is somewhat immoral and very illegal, and driving is cheaper than fares and much more convenient
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03:50<WhiteRhino>Oddly, as much as I love trains, the only time I've ever been on one was when I was a baby. All I have is a vague memory of the ceiling and lightly shaking and train sounds.
03:51<WhiteRhino>My friends in Illinois used to say that someday we'd take a train into Chicago and hang out one night.. we never did.
03:52<goodger>it varies greatly by country, but the ones around here are of two types: the ones that are two joined carriages with very loud diesel engines under the floor, and the ones that are nine carriages with _very_ loud diesel locomotives at each end
03:52<goodger>the former is very uncomfortable, and the latter is very comfortable
03:52<@Rubidium>how hard can it be to board a train? :)
03:53<goodger>unfortunately, the latter doesn't stop at my station, because the town is only 2700 people...
03:53<@Rubidium>even I could do it when I was in the US
03:53<WhiteRhino>I dunno, but the freight ones only seemed like they were going like.... ten mph at most?
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03:54<@Rubidium>I even took almost all modes of transportation when I was there, except motor cycles/scooters
03:54<WhiteRhino>If you mean buying a ticket just to take a trip, then know that I'm currently broke and have absolutely nowhere I know of I'd like to go.
03:54<@Rubidium>the freight train I saw when driving a deteriorated part of the old Route 66 went much faster than that
03:55<WhiteRhino>I think the one going by the station in IL was slowly accelerating after some hill, curve or other station.
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03:55<lordnokon>got to work
03:55<lordnokon>what was the hole point of this installation change
03:56<goodger>the freight trains around here [china clay, very heavy] all move at about 20mph
03:56<lordnokon>is there anything ill be able to pick up that changes??
03:56<lordnokon>seeing that this is a update till the new patch get release
03:56<WhiteRhino>Speaking of, I've been looking at stuff I can add into OpenTTD and the whole ECSVectors thing looks kinda interesting.
03:58<WhiteRhino>Speaking of China Clay, I mean.. I think some sort of clay was mentioned in there..
03:58<+dihedral>lordnokon, i actually was hoping you could join my autonightly server for a test, but in the mean time.....
03:58<+dihedral>i dont think it's worth it :-P
03:59<petern>cold :o
03:59<goodger>WhiteRhino: ah. you should come to cornwall. we have an entire range of small mountains composed entirely of china clay spoil
03:59<goodger>and a matching set of lakes
03:59<lordnokon>well i got it to work
03:59<goodger>why the miners didn't just dump the spoil back in the holes I have no idea, but it looks very interesting
04:00<lordnokon>im going through wiki to see what all of things things mean what you are referring to
04:01<WhiteRhino>I get kinda fascinated with trains and such.. I used to love flying into Midway airport in Illinois because we'd fly over a big deep quarry or two before landing, and a railyard.
04:03<goodger>going by train into london is cool, because the main station has fourteen platforms and a huge amount of tracks and sidings that you go past
04:03<goodger>driving to london, on the other hand, is terrible, because of the M25 (look it up...)
04:03<petern>which station do you end up at, waterloo?
04:04<goodger>not sure where waterloo goes actually
04:04<goodger>I know st pancreatic goes to the north and also does the eurostar
04:06<petern>heh, which waterloo used to do
04:06<petern>eurostar that is
04:06<WhiteRhino>Saint Pancreatic?
04:06<goodger>WhiteRhino: as in "pancreatic cancer"; the station's actual name is st pancras
04:07<WhiteRhino>Ahh. I was gonna say.. I'm not even sure what the pancreas does. =P People have probably told me in the past and I've forgotten.
04:07<WhiteRhino>I really am pretty simple. o.o
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04:07<goodger>ah, waterloo does the southeast and southwest [excluding the southwest of the southwest]
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04:08<goodger>it's pretty ridiculous that south west trains have that name, because their services do not extend further southwest than exeter AFAIK
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04:09<petern>from the london-centric view, it's south west
04:09<petern>cornwall is a separate country
04:09<WhiteRhino>Yeah. Reminds me of how Southwest airlines will fly from Massachusetts (where I am now) to Illinois, but not from Illinois to Vermont.
04:10<goodger>lordnokon: do not do that
04:10<goodger>...are southwest airlines aware of the locations of MA, IL and whatever-vermont's-two-letter-name-is? i.e. northwest?
04:11<goodger>*northeast and great lakes
04:11<WhiteRhino>VT. =) I would think so.. instead I had to take one flight to New York and then a short flight to Vermont. And some guy in New York told me to go to gate 1 when my flight was boarding in five minutes at gate 18. So I nearly missed it.
04:12<WhiteRhino>At least the non-Southwest flights I had to take had TVs built into the back of the seats.
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04:15<lordnokon>do what
04:16<lordnokon>can anyone maybe tell me how to remove the second train of multiheaded train please
04:16<+dihedral>lordnokon, i dont want a dcc chat with you ;-)
04:16<petern>you can't remove the second engine of a multihead train if it was built as one unit
04:17<lordnokon>vlieg in jou moer in dan
04:19<lordnokon>petern wasnt ment for you was for +dehedral
04:20<goodger>heh, he's even using mirc! :D
04:20<goodger>lordnokon: I don't think dihedral speaks dutch either
04:21<lordnokon>its afrikaans big differents between that and dutch
04:22<goodger>well, then, there's even less chance of him understanding you
04:25<+dihedral>i would actually assume that to be some unfriendly stuff - only reason i can imagine you not expressing yourself in the english language
04:26<goodger>dihedral: from dutch, google translate says "fly nut than you" and "fliegen Mutter, als Sie"... :S
04:26<lordnokon>i was thinking in afrikaans therefor i typed in afrikaans
04:26<lordnokon>trust on google to give you the right answer
04:26<lordnokon>like i said use differents between dutch and afrikaans
04:27<+dihedral>actually i aint gonna try to translate that - if you cannot say it in english i dont feel like it's worth me investing any effort :-P
04:27<+dihedral>hihi :-)
04:27<goodger>well, google doesn't know afrikaans
04:28<lordnokon>uh wrong answer, it does support translation very well
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04:28<lordnokon>may i ask some more question or are you guys going to hang me
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04:30<goodger>"Languages available for translation: Arabic, Bulgarian, Catalan, Chinese, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Filipino, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Latvian, Lithuanian, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Serbian, Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, Swedish, Ukrainian and Vietnamese"
04:30<+dihedral>you can always ask lordnokon ;-)
04:30<goodger>where in that list is afrikaans in your reality bubble?
04:30<+dihedral>asking if you can ask is rather something one should not ask about
04:31<+dihedral>goodger, google is available in many languages
04:31<+dihedral>erhaps that very language is just not there for the english version of the translator :-P
04:31<lordnokon>ja but, im a bit gatvol for being taken the piss out for asking questions
04:31<+dihedral>get over it!
04:31<goodger>lordnokon: for asking _stupid_ questions
04:32<petern>you asked a question, it got answered, and then you wrote something in a different language
04:32<lordnokon>well i learned that very quick here
04:32<lordnokon>ja but im not taking about that question petern
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04:35<goodger>still no snow here :( however, cloud has appeared, and the temperatures remain <0
04:36<petern>euston, we have a problem...
04:36<goodger>maybe some snow later...
04:37<WhiteRhino>This is a fantastic sandwich but is probably horrible for me.
04:37<goodger>ah, temperature is now 0
04:37<goodger>WhiteRhino: list the ingredients?
04:37<WhiteRhino>1.75oz beerwurst sausage for beer, 2.0oz pasturized process cheese with jalapeno peppers, and a small handful of pepperoni slices.
04:38<WhiteRhino>The two measured ingredients are the kind of little sausages and cheeses you find in those Christmas gift packages.
04:38<goodger>...yes, that sounds particularly unhealthy
04:39<goodger>salt, fat, salt, flavour enhancers, fat, and salt
04:39<WhiteRhino>Sliced up and stuffed in a torpedo roll. Tastey as hell, though.. but given that I'll likely be in bed in like an hour and a half, I'm in for some wild dreams.
04:40<WhiteRhino>Last night I dreamed that me and a highschool bully (who had, in reality, died in Iraq) were students going to a college-version of Hogwart's.
04:40<goodger>let's keep that between you, me, and the string of therapists who won't be able to help you
04:42<goodger>temperature has ostensibly dropped to -1 again
04:42<lordnokon>where do you stay
04:44<+dihedral>did you not want to ask a question? i am bored and need some amusement
04:45<lordnokon>still no ideas to why my income and costs does not display??
04:46<petern>did you cheat the year?
04:46<+dihedral>petern, how should he - he would not know how :-P
04:46<lordnokon>ctrl alt c
04:46<lordnokon>come move on allready
04:46<WhiteRhino>It was odd, though, 'cus in reality the kid was kind of a jerk to me but in the dream he was like my best buddy. *shrug*
04:46<petern>dihedral, cheating comes naturally to some...
04:46*dihedral seriously starts wondering how he ever got all those MS certificates :-P
04:47<+dihedral>petern, true :-)
04:48<WhiteRhino>I think he might also have been around the night I asked how a person keeps the year the year of their birth for fun. =P
04:48<lordnokon>oh seriously guys some of you really need to grow up
04:48<lordnokon>and no it wasnt me
04:49<petern>if you won't answer i won't bother either
04:49<WhiteRhino>Come on, it's playful ribbing and whatnot. =P
04:49<+dihedral>lordnokon, cheer up :-)
04:49<+dihedral>it's not like we hate you
04:50<lordnokon>depends what country you are from
04:50<+dihedral>though if cages came in larger sizes, i'd hold you as a pet.....
04:50<+dihedral>eh... no
04:52<lordnokon>feel the love
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04:53<goodger>WhiteRhino: still, dreaming about going to hogwarts with an iraq victim? :s
04:54<+dihedral>lordnokon, it's your own fault - you should not have insulted me ;-)
04:54<+dihedral>not that i care that much
04:54<Forked>welcome to the internet..
04:55<+dihedral>but if _you_ are the one wanting stuff from this channel, you should use a different attitude
04:55<lordnokon>where did i insult you
04:55<WhiteRhino>It's not that weird. It's not like he was wandering around like a zombie or anything..
04:55<+dihedral>WhiteRhino, you are worse than babyottd
04:55<WhiteRhino>I mean, I suppose it's kind of weird. The plot of the dream eventually turned into me and him and a bunch of other room-mates. And, how am I worse than that now what? o.O
04:55*goodger snorts orange squash onto his keyboard
04:56*dihedral extends his ignore list and adds some huge white animal to it
04:56<goodger>WhiteRhino: babyottd is a "learning" bot that attempts to construct sentences based on what it hears... and it is famous for nonsensical blather
04:57<WhiteRhino>Oh. Aw... Now I'm on an ignore list. =/
04:57<lordnokon>well if you werent a doos to me i would not of had to insult you
04:57<WhiteRhino>...Are you trying to say douche?
04:57<+dihedral>oh - so now you are aware of insulting me?
04:58<goodger>dihedral: a) he's not being that insane at this time, b) you will now be maddened by watching only my side of a sentence
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04:58<WhiteRhino>Oh, wait, no, Doos is on the list.
04:59<WhiteRhino>Dude, he totally called you a box.
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04:59<Forked>what happend here :\ so much hostility
04:59<+dihedral>MSCE :-D
05:00<Forked>ah. so can we blame this on microsoft?
05:00<lordnokon>Clearly the maturity is lacking from some of you people
05:00<goodger>Forked: an MSCE entered and started asking stupid questions like "how do I install" and refusing to read the readme, and we've basically gone from there
05:00<@Rubidium>Forked: someone with (allegedly multiple) MS certifications not knowing what to do with a zip file and not knowing that it'd be wise to read the readme before asking whatever's answered in said readme
05:01<@Rubidium>but AFAIK lots of MS stuff comes in zips with readmes
05:01<petern>it's MCSE
05:01<lordnokon>what eva guys
05:01<petern>as Belugas would say
05:01<lordnokon>you people really need to get ova yourselfs
05:01<lordnokon>cleary you dont
05:02<+dihedral>actually we don't :-)
05:02<+dihedral>you do
05:02<lordnokon>im not going on and on about the some old thing like a 5year kid
05:02<goodger>now I'm confused
05:02<WhiteRhino>Still sucks to be on an ignore list. Didn't know I was babbling that much.. >.>
05:03<goodger>WhiteRhino: I don't think you were
05:03<Forked>what is the point complaining about being on someones ignore list, if the person that is ignoring you can't see you complaining? It just increases the chance of more people adding you to their list :p
05:04<goodger>WhiteRhino: well, that's interesting --- I think the choice is down to the inclination of the individual house paint retailer...
05:04<@Rubidium>and thus proving the effectiveness of the local ignore lists for getting ignored by the many
05:04*petern has to attempt an upgrade on a live system with no down time... pom te pom
05:04<WhiteRhino>You've got a point there. =P Sorry.
05:04<@Rubidium>what kind of system?
05:04<Forked>Rubidium: maybe if there was a wizard with "Next" buttons we wouldn't be seeing this ;P
05:04<goodger>petern: if it's running debian this should not be problematic...
05:05<petern>how so?
05:05<goodger>Forked: actually the windows default zipfile handler does include a wizard with "next" buttons
05:05<goodger>petern: everything except the kernel can be upgraded in-place...
05:05<petern>goodger: not so
05:06<petern>upgraded without a reboot certainly
05:06<petern>most services with a few exceptions will be stopped, upgraded, and then restarted
05:06<goodger>ah, I didn't think you meant _zero_ downtime...
05:06<goodger>surely ten seconds is acceptable?
05:06<goodger>otherwise tell your employer it's not technically feasible
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05:07<petern>i hope so ;)
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05:11<goodger>...and I think the old version is uninstalled and the new one installed, and then the service is stopped and started...
05:12<goodger>if the old version fails to upgrade, or uninstalls but does not reinstall, you still have a working server, unless you stopped it before doing all that
05:12<petern>depends on the service
05:13<petern>although i admit, i've only been using debian for 9 years :/
05:15<goodger>I've been using it since 2007...
05:17<goodger>I was on ubuntu before then, and got annoyed with the hideous bugs
05:18<goodger>I like to think I learn quickly ^_^
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05:24<WhiteRhino>I hope it gets light soon so I can bring the trash out. x.x
05:25<+dihedral>lordnokon, what do you do all day in sysadmin?
05:25<+dihedral>any nice little windows boxes to snuggle up to?
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05:29<WhiteRhino>Bah. Gotta get offline so the school can potentially call my mom to let her know not to come in. See you guys tomorrow.
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05:31<goodger>...he was on dialup? :S
05:33<petern>Liberation Mono is nice :D
05:33<goodger>better than courier new at least
05:33<goodger>god knows why microsoft decided to make courier new so *thin*
05:33<petern>My 0s and Os and 1s and ls are totally different...
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05:56<dyzdyz>hi guys
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05:59<dyzdyz>can anyone help me in compiling openttd?
06:00<dyzdyz>or maybe shom me some other way to have openttd with features i need?
06:00<dyzdyz>i need ottd with cargodest, copy&paste and yapp
06:00<dyzdyz>for win64
06:01<@Rubidium>copypaste & yapp don't work together
06:01<dyzdyz>i've got BuildOTTD, but it crashes...
06:01<dyzdyz>ok, so let's try to build with cargodest+copypaste
06:01<@Rubidium>yapp's already in cargodest
06:02<+dihedral>why do people so desperately want copy&paste?
06:02<@Rubidium> <- that's where the latest cargodest build is
06:02<dyzdyz>i don't need copypaste "desperately"
06:03<dyzdyz>but i like it
06:03<Aali>< frosch123> the best part of the game is to press ctrl-v and paste the finished network over the landscape :p
06:03<Aali>I like that quote :P
06:04<Aali>funny thing is, I have always had copy&paste in my build
06:04<Aali>and I have *never* found a use for it
06:06<dyzdyz>ok, i know the website of cargodest, but this build dos net have copypaste
06:06<dyzdyz>Aali: i find copypaste very useful on large maps
06:06<Aali>why is that?
06:06<dyzdyz>with many industries
06:07<@Rubidium>for a win64 build you need MSVC 2005 or 2008 Professional (express only makes 32 bits builds)
06:07<dyzdyz>Rubidium: is there any other (smaller) compiler?
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06:08<@Rubidium>yes, but that doesn't make 64 bits build
06:08<insulfrog>hi all
06:08<@Rubidium> <- take a look there
06:08<dyzdyz>Aali: i don't like repeating same actions
06:09<dyzdyz>like building small ro-ro near every industry
06:09<goodger>Aali: if you've built a large and complex station then it's pointless to choose to duplicate that station once per town...
06:10<Aali>all of my stations/junctions are either 1. too small to make copy&paste worth it or 2. too big to make copy&paste work
06:10<dyzdyz>perhaps you build small ro-ro much faster than i do :-)
06:10<petern>when i play it evolves... c&p does not fit in
06:10<Aali>if I've built a large and complex station it's not going to fit anywhere and I'd rather just build another one that doesn't look the same
06:12<dyzdyz>Rubidium: I think i'll choose some smaller compiler and 32bit openttd...
06:13<+dihedral>aye - look at any countries train stations - they all look different :-P
06:13<@Rubidium>mingw/cygwin should work, dev-c++ probably not (not tested for many years)
06:13<+dihedral>+ if you always paste stuff from previous games, or download templates from others, you'll never build stuff faster, nor will you learn how to improve
06:14<+dihedral>+ it's a pain up the but on network games
06:14<+dihedral>esp. if people start pasting with a high speed
06:14<+dihedral>i personally wish there was a decent way of blocking that kind of stuff on the server side!
06:15<petern>surely there is
06:15<petern>a normal client will send very few commands
06:15<dyzdyz>dihedral: i agree, but i usually play alone or with my workmates, we all accept pasting
06:16<petern>so a configurable cmd rate limiter would do...
06:16<petern>with perhaps an exception list
06:16<petern>(backed up orders)
06:16<Zahl>then somebody will come up with a slow paster ;)
06:17<petern>Zahl, yeah, but it will be slow...
06:17<Zahl>you can start pasting some station and while its being build you can do something else
06:17<Zahl>like check your network
06:17<Aali>you can already configure the paste speed in the current copy&paste patch
06:17<Zahl>look for new industries..
06:17<Zahl>hmm thats bad :-D
06:19<Aali>for extra extra fun, make a server patch that buys land whenever it detects a paster
06:19<petern>autogriefer? heh
06:19<Zahl>or changes the owner of random parts of the pasted stuff
06:19<Aali>you can't do that
06:19<Aali>then you'd have to patch the client too
06:20<Zahl>server side ;)
06:20<Aali>thats not how it works
06:20<+dihedral>petern, paste rate is client side
06:20<+dihedral>i.e. sending the DoCommands to the server
06:20<dyzdyz>Rubidium: installing cygwin
06:20<Aali>if the client does not agree with the server, you'll get a desync
06:21<+dihedral>could there be a 'ranking' of how many DoCommands a single client could have in the queu following eachother for x clients connected?
06:21<Zahl>the server gets a build cmd from some player but executes it as if it came from another. works...
06:21<+dihedral>there is a server side patch, for c&p, however, it can easily be overwridden
06:21<Zahl>at least it did like 2 years ago when i did something similar
06:22<petern>if it can be overridden it's not a very good rate limiter
06:22<+dihedral>it's merely sending the rate setting from the server to the client
06:22<+dihedral>you can patch your client to not read that packet and it's all fine again
06:22<petern>no, a server side rate limiter actually has to do the limiting itself...
06:23<+dihedral>set the paste speed to 1 and paste the biggest thingy possible - all other players will have issues building!
06:23<+dihedral>petern, yep, i was just talking about the one that currently exists
06:23<petern>rate limited per client, obviously
06:23<Aali>Zahl: ah, yes, good point, that would actually work
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06:24<+dihedral>a general doCommand limiter would be nice, where one clients doCommands have _active_clients space between, and DoCommands from other clients can be slipped in between
06:25<+dihedral>i.e. a more dynamic queue
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06:32<dyzdyz>ok, got cygwin, got source...
06:32<dyzdyz>now how to apply a copypaste patch?
06:33<+dihedral>you cannot just apply copy&paste
06:33<+dihedral>not to cargodest and not to current trunk
06:34<+dihedral>it's way out of date
06:34<+dihedral>and cargodest is too modified for the patch to succeed either
06:34<+dihedral>(i mean the c&p patch is way out of date)
06:34<dyzdyz>so there's no way to have cargodest and copypaste together?
06:34<+dihedral>yep there is
06:34<+dihedral>you just need to take the time and code a bit
06:35<+dihedral>and while you are at it, get it to work with yapp
06:35<dyzdyz>you mean i have to program it for myself :-) ?
06:35<+dihedral>not entirely + you have a good working* example
06:35<+dihedral>* working a few thousand rev's ago
06:39<Aali>there is a new c&p patch that applies to current trunk and supports yapp but it is of questionable quality
06:40<Aali>and it still won't apply cleanly to cargodest AFAIK
06:41<dyzdyz>so, assuming i'm not a C/C++ programmer, don't have few hours to spend... there is no way to get cargodest and copypaste working?
06:41<@Rubidium>exactly right
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06:55<TrueBrain>morning all :)
06:55<TrueBrain>(still morning in UTC ;))
06:56<[com]buster>thought not in your timezone?
06:56<TrueBrain>I just saw a train which is heading your way
06:57<TrueBrain>so no, I don't live in UTC :p
06:59<TrueBrain>weird clouds in the sky
07:00<TrueBrain>they carry somethng heavy ...
07:07<+dihedral>good morning TrueBrain
07:10<goodger>dihedral: afternoon now :P
07:11<goodger>"good morning, sir, good afternoon, ma'am... it passed noon while I was speaking, so that was... technically... accurate. mwahay!"
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07:21<TrueBrain>New SCrubs rules!!!!
07:24*petern scrubs TrueBrain
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07:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14886 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt icelandic.txt):
07:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: remove (3) strings with non-UTF8 characters in Afrikaans.
07:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: using non-ASCII characters in Afrikaans and Icelandic when there's an equivalent ASCII character, thus not needing a font to display all characters.
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08:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14887 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: reverse iterator implementation from MS doesn't like the way we use it
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08:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14888 /trunk/config.lib: -Change/Fix: don't make makedepend look in whatever's included for headers; it takes ages *and* it will not find all headers anyways as they are placed in locations where only the compiler can easily find them
08:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14889 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Codechange: replace some magic numbers with constants.
08:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14890 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Codechange: move the notest information into the command table.
08:37<petern>you could've done some of r14886 with src/table/unicode.h ;)
08:37<petern>or was that the wrong direction... i can't remember now
08:38<petern>i only wrote the stuff after all
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08:39<@Rubidium>petern: „ and “ are MS Word's 'rewrite' of a "; as the language uses both forms, why not stay with the simplest?
08:42<+glx>like « and »
08:42<+glx>I hate when it does that
08:42<+glx>or . -> , in excel
08:42<+glx>that's just stupid as it breaks formulas
08:44<TrueBrain>Excel sucks anyway ... copy paste something like 2008-12-12 in it, which happens to be a combination code ... it makes it a datestamp .. still fine by me .. then you tell it to convert it back to a normal string, and it gives you a number! Fuck Excel ... :p
08:45<petern>hehe yeah
08:45<petern>oh god
08:46<petern>yet another sdl_mixer patch, although this one is horrible
08:46<petern>(mine was at least clean, iirc)
08:46<TrueBrain>are there non-horrible ones? :)
08:46<petern>TrueBrain, mine used the driver system to properly add sdl_mixer as a new driver
08:46<petern>this is just a hack
08:47<TrueBrain>that is the least you can do, yes :)
08:47<petern>i lied
08:47<petern>this does implement a sdl_mixer driver
08:47<petern>but only for music
08:48<petern>the sdl_mixer sound stuff is hacked into sound.cpp, not even the sdl audio driver...
08:48<TrueBrain>that is 50% ;)
08:48<petern>"Panning and volume are not implemented
08:48<petern>one of the easier things to do in sdl_mixer...
08:49<petern>it can *only* use data/sounds/xx.wav instead of
08:49<TrueBrain>petern: so do it better! :)
08:49<petern>i already did
08:49<TrueBrain>so make that trunk-ready :p
08:49<petern>but no commitage, obviously
08:49<petern>well, maybe so
08:50<TrueBrain>like most of your stuff ;) :p :p
08:50<TrueBrain>you should finish those things :)
08:50<petern>bah, who wants newgrf customisable railtypes anyway?
08:51<TrueBrain>you always have things ready when someone else makes something .. but you never commit it :)
08:51<TrueBrain>trunk is your friend ;)
08:51*Yexo would like customisable railtypes :)
08:51<TrueBrain>and an othe rpatch going into the freezer ... :p
08:51<TrueBrain>sigh :)
08:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14891 /branches/noai/ (82 files in 8 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14840:14890
08:52<petern>TrueBrain, it was synced the other day
08:52<TrueBrain>why not finish it? :)
08:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14892 /branches/noai/ ( config.lib): [NoAI] -Add (r14891): also add the Squirrel Source Dir as Include for makedepend
08:56<@Belugas>newrails! newrails! newrails! newrails! newrails!
08:57<petern>TrueBrain, been busy doing other things
08:57<petern>walking dogs, playing zombie games, and being lazy
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14893 /branches/noai/config.lib: [NoAI] -Fix (r14892): I fucked up
08:57<petern>not necessarily in that order
08:57<TrueBrain>zombie games .. left4dead .. hmm ...
08:57<petern>most likely in reverse order
08:58<petern>not left4dead
08:58<petern>that only has infected, allegedul
08:58<TrueBrain>I am out, going to my parents, getting a few dancing lessons ..... be back tonight :)
08:58<TrueBrain>petern: I expect railtypes to be commited by then ;) :p :p :p (just kidding my friend :))
08:58<+glx>have fun
08:59<petern>what is a SDTBOOL stored as?
08:59<petern>can i convert it to an SDTVAR?
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08:59<petern>byte value
09:00<petern>or do i need to drop the old value to a var and use that to set the new var?
09:00<petern>argh, it's snowing again
09:01<@Rubidium>petern: it's stored as a uint8
09:01<@Rubidium>so you can (without savegame change) change a bool to a uint8
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09:08<@Belugas>snopwing in here too. Expected 30 cm for the next 2 days
09:08<@Belugas>laziness :)
09:11<@Rubidium>poor Belugas... but no worries... there's snow here too and when I step in the fresh snow it leaves an footprint of over a foot long ;)
09:12<canidae>if you want snow, we got about a meter of it here. please, take as much as you want, preferably all of it ^^
09:14<canidae>like colour :)
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09:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14894 /branches/noai/src/squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r14878): MSVC performance warning
09:15<@Rubidium>the topic says English not American, right?
09:16<canidae>i'll probably have some typos, then. more influenced by american english than british english
09:16<@Rubidium>oh and the English are not driving at the right side of the road
09:17<canidae>i'm quite far from being american if that's your fears =)
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>when i say "meter" i am not influenced by american, i am influenced by german
09:17<@Belugas>canidae, i've got quite enough already, thanks ;) Quebec does have an history of piles and piles of snaw
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09:17<Eddi|zuHause>and as a language educated german, i can't help but pronouncing "metre" as french
09:19<canidae>beside, i'm trying to convert the world to a more binary language. not easy getting followers, though
09:22<@Rubidium>nah, ambiguity makes nice discussions ;)
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09:29<@Belugas>and nice commit messages too ;)
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09:33<petern>tea ran out :(
09:38<@Belugas>he was THAT fast?
09:39<@Belugas>or you lack exercise ;)
09:39<petern>damn right
09:41<@Rubidium>he just likes his tea very strong
09:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14895 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Change: move CMD_NO_WATER from all DoCommandPs to the command table
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09:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14896 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Codechange: remove an unused constant and the related dead code.
10:00<petern>colleague just brought his 5 day old daughter in
10:02<@Belugas>how cute :)
10:02<@Belugas>going to play dada with her?
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10:19<joachim> does the reliability affect the chance of the plane crashing?
10:20<Aali>not directly
10:21<Aali>a broken down plane runs a greater risk of crashing
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10:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14897 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
10:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: don't allow a few command flags to be sent over the network as it's
10:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bogus information anyway; e.g. the "do not send over network" flag as it will be
10:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: set whenever the command is received from the server/client.
10:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: test earlier whether the command (send from the server) is actually valid.
10:31<insulfrog>hmm, what features that hasn't been released do you dream about in OpenTTD. I dream about diagonal bridges/tunnels :p
10:31<petern>/home/petern/ottd/svn/trunk3/src/network/network_data.cpp:37: error: ‘CMD_FLAG_MASK’ was not declared in this scope
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10:34<@Rubidium>hmm... might be ccache interfering :(
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10:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14898 /trunk/src/network/network_data.cpp: -Fix (r14897): ccache's caching seems to be a bit too agressive or so.
10:38<joachim>insulfrog: and signals and junctions in/on them :)
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10:38<@Rubidium>keep dreaming ;)
10:40<petern>or get coding
10:42<insulfrog>if we did have diagnonal bridges/tunnels with signals, we could build more exotic junctions (for example the 4-level stack interchange (e.g.
10:42<petern>yes, sure, but that doesn't help coding them efficiently
10:42<Lakie>Heh, as the developers said, keep dreaming or try coding (an acceptable) implimentation of them.
10:42<+glx>and don't forget drawind sprites :)
10:43<Lakie>This has been suggested a hell of a lot, even before OpenTTD.
10:43<insulfrog>well, I do know how to program in C++ but I never actually put it into practice (I learned it at college)
10:44<Yexo>How can you claim to know how to program without putting it in practice?
10:44<Lakie>programming language.
10:44<Lakie>There is a distint difference.
10:44<insulfrog>well, i did but only in assignments
10:44<Yexo>Lakie: right :p
10:44<insulfrog>but never 'commercially'
10:45<insulfrog>if you know what I mean
10:45<Yexo>diagonal bridges would certainly be a nice challenge
10:46<insulfrog>but its goight to take alot of skill to put it into openttd
10:47<Lakie>Though, I'd suggest starting with something similar to get used to programming in C++ again...
10:47<Lakie>And then a lot of time looking at how OpenTTD works to workout how to add it.
10:49<insulfrog>its knowing what to make and do and how creative you are :)
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10:55<Bennythen00b>Hi folks :)
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10:55<Bennythen00b>Ok, so now you dont want to talk to me?...
10:56<insulfrog>A recent post I've read is the 'underwater tunnels' feature, its good but its a shame that you can't terra 'below' sea level (on land of course :p ) and dig a tunnel under the sea (e.g. channel tunnel).
10:57<Bennythen00b>You mean without the patch?
10:57<petern>pom te pom ... ... removes the limit for driver parameters
11:02<@Belugas>[10:50] <insulfrog> its knowing what to make and do and how creative you are :) <--- let see how creative you can be :)
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11:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14899 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
11:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: remove the window limit, but leave a configurable limit on the number of non-sticky non-vital windows.
11:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2499]: crashes/misbehaviours when (almost) all windows are stickied.
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11:12<petern>comments on my patch? did i miss anything like a free or something? :o
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11:14<@Rubidium>-b bla -b booh -b 32bpp-simple will probably leak
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11:15<@Rubidium>the rest looks okay
11:17<@Belugas>i'd insert a line between each if (!StrIsEmpty...) block at the end of the patch
11:21<@Belugas>i dunno about the rest, to be honesty
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11:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14900 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_bridge.cpp ai_bridge.hpp): [NoAI] -Add: support for aqueducts building
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11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r14901 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: support for oneway roads building (Yexo)
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11:48<Forked>someone should make a joke about the MSCE, RHCE and CCNP guys that went into a bar and said something to someone about something :\
11:48<Forked>sorta like the priest and the rabbi(sp?)
11:48*FauxFaux hasn't even heard of CCNP.
11:48<FauxFaux>Oh dear.
11:48<FauxFaux>Cisco Certified Wire Monkey.
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11:50<Forked>no thats CCNA :p
11:51<canidae>FauxFaux: hmm... your nick was familiar... musicbrainz?
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11:53*FauxFaux nods.
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11:58<@Belugas>N and Y are not the same
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12:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14902 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Advanced setting to keep various building tools active, which are usually closed after placing an object. (planetmaker)
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12:42<Aali>persistant building tools is in trunk? :O
12:42<Tim>Is it?
12:42<frosch123>no, persistent building tools
12:42<@Belugas>go to sleep, you're just dreaming
12:43<Aali>that's wonderful news
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12:44<Aali>now we just need quick goto and it wont be a pain in the ass to play unpatched \o/
12:45<Tim>Not to forget something to auto-seperate trains using timetables :D
12:45<Aali>dont really care about timetables
12:45<Tim>But thanks for this new feature, anyways :)
12:45<Aali>unless ITiM gets merged
12:45<@Belugas>fuck you're depressing
12:45<+glx>Aali: then use a nighlty
12:46<frosch123>[18:47] <Tim> Not to forget something to auto-seperate trains using timetables :D <- not to forget 31 flyspray tasks
12:46<Aali>glx: say what?
12:46<+glx>@openttd commit 14827
12:46<@DorpsGek>glx: Commit by rubidium :: r14827 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2009-01-04 14:51:49 UTC)
12:46<@DorpsGek>glx: -Feature [FS#1984]: few (optional) optimisations to making (initial) orders (sulai)
12:47<Aali>Belugas was right, I must be dreaming
12:48<+glx>this commit is quick goto
12:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r14903 /trunk/src/ (articulated_vehicles.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Fix: First create all articulated parts of roadvehicles, then call callback 36 capacity, also call it for all articulated parts.
12:51<Tim>Wow, quick go-to also included, now we can play even faster *g* Thanks!
12:51<Tim>And also for:
12:51<Tim>@openttd commit 14852
12:51<@DorpsGek>Tim: Commit by michi_cc :: r14852 /trunk/src (settings.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2009-01-05 20:29:05 UTC)
12:51<@DorpsGek>Tim: -Feature: Automatic reversing in front of block signals can now be disabled by setting pf.wait_oneway_signal respectively pf.wait_twoway_signal to 255.
12:52<Tim>There really should be a topic in the forums to keep track of latest (for the normal user interesting) changes in trunk!
12:55<@Rubidium>Tim: there used to be a wiki page, but well... it got outdated
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13:00<Tim>From which trunk revision was 0.6.0 split from? Or was it split with the first beta?
13:02<@Rubidium>@commit 12395
13:02<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit by rubidium :: r12395 branches/0.6/ (2008-03-22 19:48:14 UTC)
13:02<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: [0.6] -Branch: the long awaited branch so we can introduce new features in trunk before 0.6.0, but not let them destabalize the pending release :)
13:03<Tim>Thanks :)
13:05<Zuu>Tim: Now that you have got informed, you could make an unofficial notice about these new things on the forums :)
13:05*insulfrog has to go so cyas :)
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13:07<Zuu>I like to take my time and send a big thank to Rubidium who has made a huge number of commits the last days. In addition a few others have made some commits also not to forgot. But still one name has stood out the last days - Rubidium :-)
13:08<frosch123>you can also start collecting disliked christmas presents to donate them on r15000
13:09<Zuu>like wool socks that are to small for my feet?
13:09<Eddi|zuHause> <Tim> There really should be a topic in the forums to keep track of latest (for the normal user interesting) changes in trunk! <- start by "svn log -r12395:HEAD | grep Feature"
13:10<frosch123>grep -A 5 Feature
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13:12<Eddi|zuHause><glx> this commit is quick goto <- apparently, it was cryptic enough ;)
13:12<Tim>And where do i use "svn log -r12395:HEAD | grep Feature"? :)
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>on your svn checkout?
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>in your favourite console?
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13:13<Tim>Yey, my favourite console... This is where the fun starts Oo
13:14<Zuu>Tim: on what OS are you?
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>WinXP, believe it or not, comes with a console built in
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause>it's called "cmd"
13:15<Zuu>Do you have TortoiseSVN (with resavation for spelling)
13:15<Tim>Yes, i know that one *g* I even know some commands :D
13:15<Tim>And that i installed once...
13:15<Tim>But... Well... It's all a bit confusing, you know?
13:16<Zuu>I got quite quick used to Tortoise, though I misunderstood how to apply patches. The window showing the patches changed because i moved the mouse, but I first though it changed because it was processing the patch :p
13:17<frosch123>Tim: good luck
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13:22<Zuu>hmm, users ... updating of #openttdcoop GRF pack has been broken for several weeks in my updater program, but not a single user has complained, and I noticed it first today.
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>users never complain
13:27<Zuu>Belugas: What noughty plan do you have for the users now? ;)
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13:29<frosch123>Zuu: users only complain when it is their fault that it is not working
13:30<@Belugas>[13:25] <Eddi|zuHause> users never complain <--- reaction to ... some... welll.. that
13:31<@Belugas>the only plan i have so fare is just reviing my newobjects thinguy
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: well, the only other option is that you have less users than you think you have :p
13:32<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: Hehe yea, could be that too. :p
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13:34<Tim>When are the nightlys being compiled again? 20:00 german time?
13:35<Zuu>19:30 UTC if I remember correctly, but I could be wrong...
13:35<Zuu>so 20:30 CET
13:36*Zuu waits for beeing corrected by someone with better knowledge :D
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13:37<frosch123>they start at 20:00 amsterdam local time
13:37<frosch123>and are finished 25 minutes later
13:37<Tim>Okay... So approximately one hour from now till they are finished :)
13:38<Tim>I want to test the new features :)
13:38<frosch123>but it can also fail :p
13:38<Tim>Let's not hope so :)
13:38<petern>compile one yourself
13:39<Tim>I already have such a bunch of prgrams i never use on my laptop...
13:39<Tim>And i can wait for one more hour :)
13:39<Zuu>Installing VS2005 and all needed only takes 2-3 hours. and then you can complie when you like to have the latest.
13:40<@Rubidium>when you're anxious to know when the compile's done and the binaries are on the website, join #openttd.notice
13:40<Tim>ah, cool :)
13:40<Tim>Here comes a popular question: Any guess on how much longer it will take for CargoDest to hit trunk? :)
13:40<Zuu>So kind of push version of finger then :)
13:40<@Rubidium>Zuu: kinda yes ;)
13:41<Zuu> for those who don't know it yet.
13:42<Wolf01>blathijs, is that your's? (2nd photo)
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>Tim: at the current rate, converges asymptotically towards infinity
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: missing closing single quote: is that your 's'?
13:44<@Rubidium>Wolf01: I'd say it isn't, but then it's only a guess
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r14904 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-07 18:44:43
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 19 fixed, 6 changed by arnaullv (25)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 3 fixed by beruic (3)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 15 fixed by UltimateSephiroth (15)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 4 fixed by glx (4)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 15 fixed by fanioz (12), rindu (3)
13:45<petern>Wolf01, that's a name, not a nick...
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>"Matthias" is a very common name in germany, i suspect this to be not much different in the netherlands
13:49<blathijs>Wolf01: Nope, I don't have a lot of video games :-) (Also, my name is spelled "Matthijs" instead of "Matthijis", but I presume that's a typo on the page)
13:50<Tim>Hehe, some commits are really fun to read: -Add: OpenTTDs version to openttd.cfg, just so we do not need to keep to ask people for their version number because it's likely they give you the wrong answer anyway.
13:50<blathijs>Yeah, users are fun :-p
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13:52<Aali>alot of people just say "latest" when you ask them which version they're using, and 80% of the time, they're running 0.6.3 :)
13:52<+glx>we also store if they changed grf ingame
13:52<Tim>Latest (*verysmallletters:* stable)
13:56<Tim>Eddi|zuHause: Tim: at the current rate, converges asymptotically towards infinity ---> Why is that? Makes a very stable impression to me already :)
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>why can't people mark quotes properly?
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13:57<Eddi|zuHause>you always start reading a sentence, and end up wondering "wtf? i read that already"
13:57<Tim>How do you do that in IRC?
13:58<Tim>sorry ;)
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13:58<Eddi|zuHause>people invented special quote characters for that
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>they look like this: "
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>one at the beginning, and one at the end of the quote
13:58<Tim>Quote: "Eddi|zuHause: Tim: at the current rate, converges asymptotically towards infinity" --> Why is that? Makes a very stable impression to me already :)
13:58<petern>just don't bother quoting
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13:59<Eddi|zuHause>alternatively, for IRC, it is common to enclose the quoted nick in <.>, and then start with their line
13:59<+glx><petern> just don't bother quoting <-- or use proper nick displaying :)
13:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r14905 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Fix (r14899): in some corner cases already freed memory could be read.
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>in email or forum threads, it is also common to prefix quoted lines with >
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>so many ways to quote...
14:00<petern>Eddi|zuHause: or you can do this, which is the most common...
14:03<Wolf01>enable colours and we'll start to quote in different colors and backgrounds
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>colours are insane...
14:03<Tim>What a weird world... If Israel attacks Palastina everyone's like "Well, let's talk about it...", but if Russia stops delivering Gas, everyone's like "Deliver us our Gas or there'll be serious consequences!" ...
14:04<Wolf01>that's not our gas, it's their, if they don't want to seel it they are free to do
14:05<@Rubidium>Tim: if a roommate gets shot it's terrible, but when someone far away shoots someone it goes by without emotion
14:05<@Rubidium>same happens here... the gas issue really "hurts" you, what they do in the middle east is well... far away and it doesn't "hurt" you
14:06<@Rubidium>in Israel they couldn't care less about the gas issue
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14:19<Wolf01>today I coded a fully new feature for the software I'm working on... it took me about 5 hours :O
14:20<welshdragon>Wolf01 what coding language?
14:21<Wolf01>do you assure me to don't laugh?
14:21<welshdragon>i won't
14:21<welshdragon>others might
14:21<welshdragon>just /notice me
14:21<Wolf01>ok, msacces2002+vb6
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>there is honestly nothing funny about that
14:23<FauxFaux>(Company I work at dropped Acess support just before I joined, there's still references in the code)
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16:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r14906 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_road.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (rone-of-the-latest-but-I-am-lazy): GCC warning (mostly this reads: MSVC warning, but ... oh well :))
16:02-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>the truth is... programs are either trivial or buggy
16:03<@Belugas>the truth is... out there
16:03<@Belugas>in the snow
16:03<@Belugas>in the cold
16:03<@Belugas>in the winter
16:03<@Belugas>in the HELL!!!
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16:04<TrueBrain>let me tell you, in the wohle country here there is snow ... but not where I live
16:04<TrueBrain>I go to my parents: snow
16:04<@Rubidium>yes Belugas, it's cold and snowy in Hell
16:04<TrueBrain>I talk to people more east: snow
16:04<TrueBrain>I hate it :(
16:05<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: talk to people on Vlieland or so
16:05<TrueBrain>not too many people there :p
16:05<TrueBrain>let alone I know people there
16:05<TrueBrain>well, inf act I do .. but not that well :p
16:05<+glx>there's snow here
16:05<TrueBrain>here, even glx has snow! :(
16:05<+glx>even in Marseille there's snow
16:06<+glx>they didn't have any since 1987
16:06<@Rubidium>on Vlieland the temp was above freezing at it's lowest point last night
16:06<TrueBrain>well .. I am next to Vlietland, but it is colder here ;) (hehe, Vlietland .. Vlieland .. :p)
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16:07<@Belugas>there is snow at my dealer'
16:07<@Belugas>s place too :S
16:08<TrueBrain>that aint snow ...
16:08-!-De_Ghosty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:08<TrueBrain>not everything that is white is snow Belugas ..
16:08<@Belugas>YES IT IS!
16:08<@Belugas>i am not snow...
16:08<TrueBrain>don't eat yellow snow :)
16:08<@Rubidium>and not all snow is white
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16:12<edeca>TrueBrain: But it tastes so nice
16:13<petern>Belugas has a dealer?
16:13<+glx>a cofee dealer :)
16:14<@Belugas>you know me :)
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16:16<petern>bah, she has not replied to me for ages :/
16:18<Sacro>hsi wife
16:19<petern>no, someone via friendsreunited
16:19<@Belugas>his dealer
16:19<@Belugas>it's a she
16:19<TrueBrain>I like thatone Belugas :)
16:19<TrueBrain>his 'snow' dealer :)
16:21<@Belugas>got to go
16:21<TrueBrain>Bye Belugas :)
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16:51<TrueBrain>boring in here
16:51<TrueBrain>and I am HUNGRY!!!
16:51<TrueBrain>and I have nothing real to eat :(
16:52<Tim>Order Pizza?
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16:52<thingwath>I have no beer. :-/
16:52<TrueBrain>De_Ghosty: please join, or leave ... pfff
16:52<TrueBrain>Tim: I don't think they bring pizzas at 2300
16:52<thingwath>Why not?
16:52<GoneWacko>ah damn, I was going to buy beer today but forgot.
16:52<GoneWacko>Sheesh, thanks for reminding me *after* the shops close.
16:54<TrueBrain>running out of beer
16:54<TrueBrain>what kind of person are you!
16:54<TrueBrain>then your friend calls, can I come for a drink, and you can't say yes
16:54<TrueBrain>pfff :p
16:57<thingwath>nobody would come here
16:58<SmatZ>you have no friends?
16:59<thingwath>I don't know :-)
17:00<SmatZ>so you don't have any friends you know about :)
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17:00<thingwath>at this time, it's easier for me to visit them, than vice versa
17:00<thingwath>this place is so ugly
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17:09<TrueBrain>I found apizza in my freezer
17:09<TrueBrain>not a fancy one
17:09<TrueBrain>but I take it :)
17:10<petern>you ought to cook it
17:10<TrueBrain>no shit? :P
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17:16<petern>400GB of HD NIN video
17:16<petern>nine inch nails
17:16<petern>/dev/md/3 428G 12G 395G 3% /home
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17:18<petern>"Imma tard but if I dl something then don't want it anymore, can I delete it from my harddrive and free up that space for something else??"
17:18<TrueBrain>you should keep it FOR EVER!
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>i never throw anything away
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i have only 60 youtube clips stored...
17:24<TrueBrain>I never have enough room for that :p
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17:28<Eddi|zuHause>hm... can i "dump" a python session to the disk, and completely restore it later? (not using pickle, as that is not enough
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>(the python instance uses up 1,6GB of memory)
17:31<TrueBrain>this pizza tastes good!
17:31<Sacro>i want pizza :(
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17:34<TinoDidriksen>There's been experiments with freezing a process to disk and thawing it later, even on different hardware (as long as the arch and libraries are the same)...but not sure there's any practical tools for it yet, asides from a full hibernate cycle.
17:34<TrueBrain>it exists
17:35<TrueBrain>and works very well
17:35<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: let gdb make a core dump of it and load that?
17:35-!-Nite_Owl [] has joined #openttd
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: what are the incantations for that?
17:35<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:37<TinoDidriksen>Do you want it to survive a reboot, or just want it out of the way for a while? 'cause if the latter, you could simply suspend the process and reduce it's priority to let it get swapped out.
17:37<FauxFaux>Yeah, I've used the freezy thing before, it occasionally works, unless your app is complex, like top.
17:38<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: no idea, check `man gdb` I'd say
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>TinoDidriksen: both, i'd say
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17:40<Eddi|zuHause>i have this huge pile of data, which i want to "harvest" in steps, which could take multiple days, and stuff might go wrong, so i want to make like a "snapshot" that i could roll back to
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't have the time to lay out a proper database model and conversion functions
17:40<TrueBrain>so push out the data via yaml
17:40<TrueBrain>inefficient, but works
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>what's yaml?
17:41<TrueBrain>a Python export type
17:42<+glx>yet another ??
17:44<+glx>hmm no it's the other kind of acronym
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17:45<Eddi|zuHause>if it doesn't get the job done in 5 minutes, it's not the right thing for me
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>right now at least
17:45<TrueBrain>1.6 GiB?
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>i need a really quick and really dirty solution
17:45<TrueBrain>I don't think even a direct dump could get that done in 5 minutes :)
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>i mean 5 minutes of programming time
17:45<TinoDidriksen>"print" is the quick and dirty solution.
17:45<TrueBrain>ah ;)
17:45-!-tom0004 [~Tom@] has joined #openttd
17:45<TrueBrain>yaml is like print :)
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>and reading up on how to program it
17:46<TrueBrain>(it just serializes python structures)
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>that pyyaml page does not tell me anthing
17:46<TrueBrain>one moment .. where did I use it ...
17:47<TrueBrain> input = open("tvrage.yaml", "r")
17:47<TrueBrain> config = yaml.load(
17:48<TrueBrain>data = yaml.dump(config, indent = 2, default_flow_style = False)
17:48<TrueBrain>'import yaml'
17:48-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:48<TrueBrain>config is a random Python object
17:48<TrueBrain>in my case a table
17:48<@Belugas>[17:17] <petern> 400GB of HD NIN video <- ho - menoum menoum menoum menoum
17:48<TrueBrain>dirty, not sure if it works for you :)
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>how does that behave with recursive objects, modifications of class variables, and stuff?
17:49<TrueBrain>no idea
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>the second point is why pickle is not enough
17:49<TrueBrain>damn, I meet this lovely girl today ...
17:49<TrueBrain>try it out :)
17:49<@Belugas>too sour, i'd say
17:49<@Belugas>girl, pickle... dirty
17:50<TinoDidriksen>Is the data processed in a stream, or is it all one big interdependent structure?
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>the data is... complicated...
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>mostly tree structures
17:51<petern>Belugas: downloading the victoria bc gig
17:51<@Belugas>all lascively intertwined...
17:51<@Belugas>i see :)
17:52<TrueBrain>damn, can't get her out of my head .. how annoying :)
17:52<Eddi|zuHause><Belugas> all lascively intertwined... <-- err... yes, that's probably an appropriate description :p
17:53<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: what about a VM (like VirtualBox) and make a snapshot whenever you need one?
17:54<petern>ETA: infinity
17:55<TinoDidriksen>So there's no point you can say "done with this part, write, discard, next"...?
17:56-!-Tim [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:58<TrueBrain>I maybe should be doing something useful ...
17:59<petern>finish noai
17:59<TrueBrain>yeah ... big portion I did in the last 2 days
17:59<Sacro>TrueBrain! noai!
17:59<TrueBrain>no threads, yeah :)
18:00<TrueBrain>now I 'only' need to commit the cleanup patches
18:00<TrueBrain>which I need to port, as they are not compatible :(
18:02<Sacro>sigh, this is quite challenging
18:02<Sacro>how to go around london quickly and efficiently
18:03<TrueBrain>maybe I should just play the game a bit :p
18:03<petern>nuke it
18:03<TrueBrain>petern: then he can't enter for the next N years
18:03<@Rubidium>Sacro: by helicopter
18:03<TrueBrain>dirty bom
18:03<TrueBrain>more efficient
18:03<petern>TrueBrain: how is that a problem?
18:04<@Rubidium>petern: then there can't be a Christmas Doctor Who special attack on London?
18:04<TrueBrain>also, why waste all those good buildings
18:05<@Rubidium>and that piece of overvalued carbon ;)
18:05<petern>gordon brown?
18:05-!-mortal [] has quit [Quit: Checking whether build environment is sane ... build environment is grinning and holding a spatula. Guess not.]
18:05<@Rubidium>that's the major right?
18:06<@Rubidium>oh no... he's basically the boss of the major ;)
18:06<petern>he's the pm
18:06<petern>oh hang on... major?
18:07<thingwath>Major Major Major Major
18:07<petern>boris is the mayor, heh
18:07<@Rubidium>mayor major... sounds the same
18:07<petern>no it doesn't
18:07<TrueBrain>one is big, the other is an ass
18:08<TrueBrain>yeah, all the same :)
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18:11<WhiteRhino>Goood evening party people.
18:11<@Rubidium>heh... both are boss of something, both has bosses, both get paid by the government
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18:14<WhiteRhino>Gah! Plane crashed already.. I think the airport was too small.
18:14<WhiteRhino>It's a Commuter airport and I'm flying Bakewell Luckett LB80s in and out of it.
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>do english speaking cultures know the concept of "student food"? ("Studentenfutter" in german is a mix of nuts and raisins)
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>(although it's usually too expensive for the average student to buy it)
18:19<@Rubidium>Dutch have it, but that's more a side note than an answer
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18:25<TrueBrain>darn .. I Started to build monorail, but there are no vehicles available for it :p
18:26<WhiteRhino>How does that happen? o.o
18:27<@Rubidium>playing with AIs?
18:27<TrueBrain>and a bunch of newgrfs
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18:28<WhiteRhino>Okay, maybe that kind of plane is too big for that airport. I just lost a second of my three.
18:30<WhiteRhino>How do you know which planes are small enough for the small airports?
18:30<WhiteRhino>Gah! There goes the last one.
18:31<Nite_Owl>Look at the wiki for which airports are what sizes and the planes should say on the purchase window if they are large or small
18:32<WhiteRhino>Doesn't say it on my build window right now..
18:32<Nite_Owl>Hmmm - I might be thinking of a newgrf then
18:33<Sacro>TrueBrain: fail :p
18:33<WhiteRhino>I need that one. And to learn how to make less traffic-jammy rails.
18:33<Sacro>mm, jam
18:33<WhiteRhino>It's all fun until my trains are making -$15 a year.
18:33<WhiteRhino>...-$15k, I mean.
18:33<Nite_Owl>AV8 is the plane grf I use
18:34<TrueBrain>I should learn how to make efficient PBS blocks ... :p
18:35<WhiteRhino>Balls. I had the right company of plane, but one release too late. The LB-9 is small, the LB80 is big.
18:39<WhiteRhino>Seems like there comes a time in the game where a critical mass is reached where you build less and just manage/upkeep what you currently have.
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18:47<WhiteRhino>Sweet, I'm worth 91mil.
18:48<Prof_Frink>WhiteRhino: Coverage follows a sigmoid curve.
18:48<Prof_Frink>Small at the start, 'cause you have no money
18:48-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:49<Prof_Frink>Fast as your network expands and you have plenty of cash
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18:49<TrueBrain>damn, I really suck in making a nice network :(
18:49<Prof_Frink>Then slow again as the only things left are too small and far away to bother with
18:50<WhiteRhino>But then wouldn't it be good to use an older style of vehicle or the fast cars? For the small far away stuff.
18:51<WhiteRhino>Or just fast trains but short ones.
18:51<Prof_Frink>fast, cheap-running
18:57-!-Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
18:57<WhiteRhino>Ooh, Tubular Steel is available now.
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>the cool thing about cargodest is that you can more easily build scalable networks
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>you have mainline cargo trains going round, or back and forth, between large transfer stations
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>and connect primary industries to the next mainline station, instead of directly to the industry
19:00<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: your profit goes down hard :(
19:01<TrueBrain>and pax only is very hard :p
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>as long as the secondary industries are on a mainline station, the profit does not drop very much
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>but imho, primary cargo such as coal and ore should not be dependent on time at all
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>would also help ships and the like
19:02<TrueBrain>I still would love to change the economy (which chagnes the game compeltely btw), where you buy stuff at a coal mine for N price .. and sell it at a power plant for M
19:03<TrueBrain>where price changes according to demand
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>because then a 10km/h ship would be as profitable as a 250km/h train
19:03<canidae>hrmph... i'm playing around a bit with copy&paste patch... got it to compile & stuff, can even copy stuff, although pasting is slightly more annoying. it clears the ground with dynamite, although it "can't build railroad track here". turned on a lot of debugging, but it wasn't very helpful. anyone got some clues?
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i'm not sure about this buy/sell thing, it's not really what transport is about
19:04<thingwath>transport companies doesn't buy their cargo, they just transport it from some place to another one :-)
19:04<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: that is wha thappens in real life :)
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>BUT, in different times, the cargo should yield different prices
19:04<TrueBrain>thingwath: hehe :)
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19:05<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. the factory should say: you get XXX€ if you deliver to YYY in ZZZ days
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>where ZZZ can vary between eras
19:05<TrueBrain>which factory ever says that? :p
19:06<thingwath>(and if not, then you will pay some penalty, of course)
19:06-!-sigmund_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, usually the receiving end says "i need supply cargo until ABC, otherwise my production line goes down"
19:07<Zuu>TrueBrain: Fines for late delivery is quite common IRL I would say;
19:07<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: exactly; so a power plant wants cargo N for price Y
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>in other cases, like fruit, the time between harvest and decay is important
19:08<TrueBrain>but a fruit thingy doesn't care what you do with it
19:08<TrueBrain>they sell it for N to you
19:08<thingwath>power plant will most likely have agreement with mines to provide the coal
19:08<TrueBrain>where N drops the longer it waits at them :p
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19:08<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i fear such a model would come with too much micromanagement
19:08<thingwath>and power plant really doesn't want to stay without coal
19:08<TrueBrain>it gives more management, yes :)
19:08<TrueBrain>as I said, it changes the game completely :)
19:09<TrueBrain>thingwath: so it offers more for coal when it runs low :)
19:09<thingwath>no, it just buy some coal :-)
19:09<Zuu>So don't give it to much coal, and the prices will grow..
19:09<Zuu>Like russian gas..
19:09<TrueBrain>isn't that happening in real life? :p
19:10<TrueBrain>but there is always some other company wanting to transport coal .. so ;)
19:10<canidae>hmm, that's interesting... copy/paste works for roads, but not railroads... well, at least one clue :)
19:11<thingwath>I guess that both power plant and mining company want long-term contracts
19:11<Zuu>yea, unless you have monopoly..
19:11<TrueBrain>the idea does fail in SP :p
19:11<Zuu>TrueBrain: Good we have NoAI then ;)
19:12<WhiteRhino>So close to my first hundred-mil..
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19:13<Eddi|zuHause>i don't like this supposed economy model, at least not for this game...
19:13<WhiteRhino>Annd.... Whoo!
19:14<Zuu>WhiteRhino: Money should be put into more locos and infrastructure to gain even more revenue :D
19:14<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: it would make the game much more interesting :)
19:14<TrueBrain>but ... it is an other game, yes ;)
19:14<@orudge>beware :p
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>what i would like to see is evolving price rates... at a time where the max speed is 30km/h, people will spend much higher rates for travelling at that speed, than when the speed is 300km/h
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>so starting out in 1835 with rail would actually make a sensible game...
19:15<Zuu>TrueBrain: The model you are talking about was up for discussion in Transport Empire, in the long discussions we had there log back ago. :)
19:16<TrueBrain>we talked about it here too many tmes :)
19:16<WhiteRhino>I'd probably have a lot more money if I wasn't so hypnotized watching my own trains and cars drive about.
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>and you need to upgrade vehicles not because they are old, or increase your income margin, but actually because people start to pay less for the transport, so you need to cut expenses
19:16<TrueBrain>but with cargodest it is much more useful ;)
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>i think cargodest contradicts your model
19:17<TrueBrain>then I don't think you understand it ;) hehe :)
19:17<TrueBrain>mind you I see cargodest only useful with pax ;)
19:17<TrueBrain>not with normal cargo :)
19:18<thingwath>just deliver anything anywhere
19:18<Zuu>Well, I think cargodest for normal cargo is usefull.
19:18<TrueBrain>in this economy model, yeah :)
19:19<Zuu>But then probably with a model where cargo choose between the offered destinations;
19:21<Zuu>(me writing on dvorak instead of svorak = types ; instead of dots at end of sentensies :p)
19:21<thingwath> :-) ("cokoliv kamkoliv" -> "anything anywhere")
19:23<TrueBrain>nice movie orudge :)
19:23<@orudge>the actual movie will take some time to finish, alas :p
19:23<@orudge>since I have about 2 hours of footage to wade through
19:23<TrueBrain>as always ;)
19:24<@orudge>it took me about 4-5 hours to do just this
19:24<TrueBrain>you suck!
19:24<TrueBrain>haha :)
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19:27<Zuu>orudge: Looks nice though lags quite a lot from my slow laptop (6.5 year old), and "only" 5 Mbit. Will look better when I get back to my droom with real internet and better computer :)
19:28-!-Zahl [] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar]
19:30<Zuu>4-5 hours isn't that bad. The productions I've said yes to do have been like 20-30 hours, but then for 4-6 hour raw material that should get down to 10-30 minutes.
19:31<Zuu>Though I can't say I enjoy it that much. Hard to listen to music while doing movies :p
19:33<Zuu>Good night guys got to get some sleep :)
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19:37<WhiteRhino>Hmm. I have 1,500 crates of goods en-route waiting in a station.
19:40-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:45-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>then transport them away.
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>very simple.
19:48*Sacro transports Eddi|zuHause away
19:48*Sacro dumps him at a steel mill
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>hm... steel
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>did i ever mention that i am a ferrovore?
19:49<WhiteRhino>Wow. That sounded almost Optimus Prime-y.
19:49-!-tom0004 [~Tom@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:49<WhiteRhino>Never all "What the hell am I doing at a steel mill?" but just "Hmm. Steel." I dunno, maybe I'm tired. >.,
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19:50<Eddi|zuHause>should have said "mjam"
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>as in "tasty"
19:51<WhiteRhino>My life is pain?
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>as in: an enthusiastic "hm"
19:52<TrueBrain>you guys are WEIRD
19:52<TrueBrain>time to find my bed!
19:52<WhiteRhino>I told my brother I had five coal trains going into a single powerplant. He asked if the plant was named Global Warming.
19:52<WhiteRhino>G'night. =)
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22:09<Sacro>Anyone around?
22:09<Sacro>"How many bits are required to store an int fundamental type, in a 64bit build"
22:09<Sacro>doesn't that depend on the compiler?
22:10<Sacro>so not only can the lecturer not tell his left from his right
22:10<Sacro>he asks vague "it depends" exam questions
22:10<Eddi|zuHause>the C standard only "suggests" that the native word size is used
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22:12<Sacro>yay, score of 0/6
22:12<Sacro>not bad
22:14<WhiteRhino>Yet another reason I dislike college. =D
22:15<Sacro>how many bits
22:15<Sacro>feck knows
22:15<@Belugas>[22:09] <Sacro> "How many bits are required to store an int fundamental type, in a 64bit build" <--- as required by the compiler been used
22:15<Sacro>How many bits are required to store an int fundamental type, in a 64bit build
22:15<Sacro>A. 16
22:15<Sacro>B. 32
22:15<Sacro>C. 48
22:15<Sacro>D. 64
22:15<Sacro>those are my answers
22:16<Sacro>no "it depends" or "sizeof(int)"
22:16<@Belugas>i'd go with b) but i'm sure its a trick
22:16<@Belugas>"Hey Teachers, leave the kids Alone"
22:16*Belugas -< bed
22:16<WhiteRhino>He wants to give vague questions, give vague answers. >.>
22:17<thingwath>enough for INT_MAX :)
22:17<Sacro>WhiteRhino: multiple choice
22:17<Sacro>we *can't* answer that correctly
22:17*Sacro posts a complaint on the uni forum
22:17<Sacro>thankfully i live with one of our student reps
22:17<Sacro>i'll get him to complain
22:17<WhiteRhino>Good man.
22:18<WhiteRhino>In my defense, I typed and entered my response up there before sort of netburp that gave me the four choices. ;)
22:18<Sacro>yes i saw
22:18<Sacro>but that doesn't help
22:19<thingwath>I'm not sure if real questions about standard C were any better
22:20<Sacro>oh, the answer isn't 64
22:20<Sacro>it's 32
22:20<Sacro>how the fudge did they get that
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22:21<thingwath>well, most likely it will be 32 bits, for most compilers
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22:22<Sacro>i think i just broke e-bridge into giving me the answers
22:22<Sacro>yes i did
22:22<Sacro>but how
22:23<Sacro>it seems that 50% of the time it shows my answers
22:23<Sacro>50% it shows the right ones
22:24<thingwath>which of the following is not a TeX macropackage: a. webmac, b. NTC, c. czech styl
22:24<thingwath>hehe. :-(
22:24<thingwath>this one is even better
22:24<Sacro>there, all right
22:24<Sacro>thanks for the answers e-bridge
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22:55<Eddi|zuHause>hm... python segfaulted on me...
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23:47<WhiteRhino>So, Thief works on ME. It just works kinda badly.
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 08 00:00:55 2009