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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-01-27

---Logopened Tue Jan 27 00:00:32 2009
00:33<Mortomes:#openttd>RS-SM: No real need, it's not like mibbit hides your ip. It just puts it in your ident in hexadecimal form
00:33<RS-SM:#openttd>thanks Mortomes
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01:10<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>kd5pbo: "killed" is an action of higher authority than the channel ops
01:11<kd5pbo:#openttd>I was thinking kickban, actually.
01:11<kd5pbo:#openttd>What's killed?
01:11<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>when the server kicks you
01:12<kd5pbo:#openttd>How does that happen?
01:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>next higher thing is a g-line (or k-line)
01:12<kd5pbo:#openttd>What's that?
01:12<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>those are typically initiated by an irc op
01:13<kd5pbo:#openttd>What do they do?
01:15<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>they google.
01:16<kd5pbo:#openttd>They have been googled.
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04:12<@petern:#openttd>visual effects for road vehicles
04:14<@Rubidium:#openttd>isn't the explosion visual enough?
04:14<@petern:#openttd>explosion? :o
04:15<Tefad:#openttd>whoa i said something. in all caps. my bad.
04:15<Tefad:#openttd>i'm a bit spaztic right now. i'll uh.. ignore this channel for a while.
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04:17<@petern:#openttd>oh, i thought you did that for effect :p
04:21<Tefad:#openttd>aw i even made a typo. i didn't notice until just now because of all the caps. i meant raytraced.. though ray racing sounds fun too...
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04:36<SmoovTruck:#openttd>maybe a different color explosions for haz-mat-carrying vehicles
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04:40<edeca:#openttd>"Residents report local bus driver drunk in charge!" with suitable skidding graphics and some vocal "buggrit" sounds would do
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04:44<Timitry:#openttd>Morgen :)
04:50<edeca:#openttd>Hi Timitry
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04:56<|Japa|:#openttd>over stuffing the carriages?
04:57<edeca:#openttd>Cool. Gotta check, some of the things I see online :P
04:57<@petern:#openttd>don't change newgrfs in game
04:57<edeca:#openttd>|Japa|: Completely unrelated but what buildings set are you using there? 'tis nice.
04:57<|Japa|:#openttd>I guess they got pissed with all the mail waiting in the station, so they just piled it all on
04:59<|Japa|:#openttd>I think it's a bug with cargodest
05:01<edeca:#openttd>|Japa|: Thanks.
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05:04<|Japa|:#openttd>btw, the loading percentage loops when it reaches 255
05:05<|Japa|:#openttd>during that station stop, it went from 0% to 255% about 5 or 6 times
05:05<@petern:#openttd>well yes
05:05<@petern:#openttd>you don't need anything larger to store 100%
05:06<|Japa|:#openttd>unless they are using the indian loading style
05:06<|Japa|:#openttd>I was in a train carriage with 72 seats
05:06<|Japa|:#openttd>I estimated 400 people in there
05:07<|Japa|:#openttd>I don't know how the guys in charge got into my OTTD tho
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05:42<Elukka:#openttd>are there any scenarios for ECS?
05:47<Elukka:#openttd>i couldnt find any
05:47<Elukka:#openttd>generated maps are ok but can get a bit samey
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06:02<edeca:#openttd>Hm, I really should try a scenario one of these days
06:03<Elukka:#openttd>i really should try making one
06:03<Elukka:#openttd>i tried googling but couldnt find any at all for ECS
06:04<Gekz:#openttd>we should have scenario competitions
06:04<Gekz:#openttd>like custom made 128x128 maps
06:04<Gekz:#openttd>where you have to make as much profit as possible over 100 years without cheating
06:05<Elukka:#openttd>i'd like a competitive multiplayer mode
06:05<Elukka:#openttd>i like calm relaxing building as much as the next guy, but sometimes i want to be a robber baron and buy out my competitors
06:07<edeca:#openttd>Gekz: Sheesh, I don't play with anything smaller than 1024 ;)
06:07<Elukka:#openttd>are ECS scenarios some sort of well hidden secret or do they really not exist at all?
06:09<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: GOOGLE IT.
06:09<Elukka:#openttd>i googled!
06:10<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: Well I found that using google for "openttd ecs scenarios" and it was number 4. There are more on tehre too.
06:10<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: Granted there aren't *hundreds* on that page, but it's a start :)
06:10<Elukka:#openttd>that doesnt look like ecs
06:10<Elukka:#openttd>i tried a default one and ended with default industries with kinda messed up ecs cargos
06:11<Elukka:#openttd>yeah i'm maybe just blind
06:11<Elukka:#openttd>curiously, a google search for "ttd ecs scenarios" results in nothing"
06:12<edeca:#openttd>I'd love to know exactly how google works, it does seem a bit weird sometimes
06:12<edeca:#openttd>It definitely favours whole words (for good reason) but it does other crazy stuff too
06:15<Elukka:#openttd>it's something amazingly complicated
06:15<@petern:#openttd>it's nearly impossible to search for symbols :p
06:16<edeca:#openttd>petern: Heh, yes. I love searching for code :)
06:18<edeca:#openttd>Is it my complete imagination or was there a patch for 'subsidiaries' at one point? i.e. you can have subcompanies, or when you buy out another company it becomes a subsidiary (easier to sell off all their rubbish)
06:18<edeca:#openttd>Or was that another game
06:18<@petern:#openttd>there was
06:19<edeca:#openttd>Good, as long as I'm not going mad. Did it never expand into something useful?
06:19<Elukka:#openttd>i remember that from mini-in
06:19<Elukka:#openttd>never really had any use for it
06:19<Elukka:#openttd>by the way, you know what i love
06:20<Elukka:#openttd>how my stations work just like they have good presignal setups
06:20<Elukka:#openttd>by just spamming pbs
06:20<edeca:#openttd>Eww :)
06:20<edeca:#openttd>I still use pre-signals with PBS
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06:21<Elukka:#openttd>i use them for my ro-ro stations
06:21<Elukka:#openttd>but with pbs i no longer need to make everything roro
06:23<@petern:#openttd>pre-signals with PBS? uh huh
06:24<@petern:#openttd>pretty pointless
06:25<edeca:#openttd>petern: Not in the same places :\
06:25<edeca:#openttd>petern: I mean, I use them rather than "spamming pbs"
06:25<Elukka:#openttd>in my basic stations
06:25<Elukka:#openttd>spamming pbs works!
06:25<Elukka:#openttd>it never gets stuck
06:25<@petern:#openttd>it works for complicated stations too
06:26<Elukka:#openttd>unless the whole network is gridlocked or something
06:26<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: You got a screenshot?
06:26<Elukka:#openttd>i just made one
06:26<@petern:#openttd>edeca, you got a screenshot? heh
06:26<Elukka:#openttd>i was going to link it regardless :P
06:26<edeca:#openttd>petern: You want one? :)
06:26<Elukka:#openttd>very simple
06:26<Elukka:#openttd>works very well
06:27<@petern:#openttd>Elukka: too many signals
06:27<edeca:#openttd>Why did you leave the gap between the track crossover and the platforms?
06:27*edeca:#openttd wonders if that's necessary
06:27<@petern:#openttd>it's not
06:27<Elukka:#openttd>yeah that's probably true
06:28<Elukka:#openttd>with 4 tracked networks, i just make a big X that crosses over all tracks
06:29<edeca:#openttd>Yeah, sometimes if there are 2 lines and 4 platforms I'll make 2 crossovers so that more than 1 train can approach a platform at once
06:29<edeca:#openttd>I need to read up on one-way PBS though, I don't quite understand it
06:30<Elukka:#openttd>its PBS, it just works only one way
06:30<Elukka:#openttd>i use it right after and before stations to make sure trains get on the right track
06:30<Elukka:#openttd>and in some junctions
06:30<edeca:#openttd>Eh, I just never find trains get on the wrong track.
06:30<edeca:#openttd>Perhaps my networks are too simple :)
06:33<Elukka:#openttd>i try to keep things reasonably simple
06:33<Elukka:#openttd>but more complexity is needed the higher the capacity
06:34<Elukka:#openttd>this is my current game
06:34<Elukka:#openttd>well, with a friend
06:34<Elukka:#openttd>yay for cargodest
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06:34<edeca:#openttd>Well I never had a problem until I started playing with the north american set, which actually takes hills into account. And hills really slow stuff down.
06:35<Elukka:#openttd>i use uk set or us set depending on what i feel like
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06:36<Elukka:#openttd>that 4 platform station on the left really needs more platforms
06:36<Elukka:#openttd>the whole track between the two towns got clogged back when it was double track :D
06:36<Elukka:#openttd>it'd be lovely if you could have 2 tracks on one tile..
06:51<Elukka:#openttd>generating 2048x2048 maps with ecs kinda takes some time :D
06:52<Elukka:#openttd>huh, it actually only took about 2 minutes this time
06:52<edeca:#openttd>It normally takes about a minute on my PC I think
06:52<edeca:#openttd>Is it multi-threaded?
06:52*edeca:#openttd wonders how long it will take on his new quad core PC
06:53<Elukka:#openttd>core 2 duo e6600
06:53<edeca:#openttd>Meh I've got a worse processor than that right now.
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06:54<edeca:#openttd>!seen yorick
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06:54<edeca:#openttd>Bah, no bots? :(
06:54<Yexo:#openttd>edeca: try @seen
06:55<edeca:#openttd>@seen yorick
06:55<@DorpsGek:#openttd>edeca: yorick was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 22 hours, 42 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <yorick> now who translated "manually" with "handleiding" in the dutch translation :/
06:55<edeca:#openttd>Yexo: Thanks.
06:56<edeca:#openttd>Yexo: AdmiralAI started build rails for me at last, but there are still loads of abandoned stations over the map :)
06:56<Yexo:#openttd>I'm working on it
06:56<Yexo:#openttd>but fixing the save/load code has priority, and that takes a lot of time
06:57<edeca:#openttd>Ah, cool! Well thanks, it works really well now anyway.
06:57<Elukka:#openttd>cs railroad tracks dont like the alpine climate
06:57<Elukka:#openttd>it incorrectly shows the arctic grass
06:58<planetmaker:#openttd>Elukka: that's an "error" which currently is very hard to fix.
06:58<planetmaker:#openttd>Because AFAIK rail sprites include the ground which they're built upon.
06:58<Elukka:#openttd>alpine set provides a grf which fixes it, but only for the default track it seems
06:58<planetmaker:#openttd>the more knowledgable people may correct me there.
06:59<edeca:#openttd>I'd often wondered that, same way that bridges have the rail or road on them too.
06:59<planetmaker:#openttd>Elukka: yes... but even then it looks odd for the tracks in diagonal directions.
06:59<planetmaker:#openttd>edeca: same there, yes...
07:00<planetmaker:#openttd>afaik there's petern working on un-bundling those two things. No idea about the status and its priority, though.
07:00<Elukka:#openttd>the diagonal seems fine except it melts the snow around it if its only partial snow
07:00*edeca:#openttd throws sweets at petern
07:00<@Rubidium:#openttd>edeca: don't hurt him!
07:00<planetmaker:#openttd>hm... right. Might be that it looks funny for maglev sprites. I just recall a game where we have both
07:01<Elukka:#openttd>is there a way i could modify the cs rail set for myself, or is it a huge hassle?
07:01<planetmaker:#openttd>Elukka: probably the answer depends upon your knowledge of both, grf coding and grf drawing.
07:01<Elukka:#openttd>my knowledge in both is zero, so i think i'll make do with what i have
07:02<planetmaker:#openttd>:) You might make an effort though. Should be one of the easier grf tasks (I've never done any grf creation / modding though - so it might be a wildly inaccurate guess)
07:03<Elukka:#openttd>well, i dont even have any idea how to get into the grf files
07:03<planetmaker:#openttd>There's a bunch of knowledgable and helpful people out there which can advise you, if you have a particular problem with something along the path.
07:03<planetmaker:#openttd>grfcodec :)
07:05<Elukka:#openttd>i think i'll just make do now
07:05<Elukka:#openttd>lazy etc
07:05<Elukka:#openttd>it doesnt look that bad - the grass can as well be a little less green around the tracks
07:07<Elukka:#openttd>a completely unrelated question... where do people get heightmaps from?
07:09<Elukka:#openttd>blagh, stolen trees dont work in alpine either... i like the snow but i think i'll just move back to temperate
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07:23<planetmaker:#openttd>play arctic w/o alpine :)
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07:43*dihedral:#openttd wants his ignore list to be synced between the various xchat clients he uses
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07:44<Gekz:#openttd>dihedral: you dont hate me as much as you think you do
07:46<dihedral:#openttd>who is talking about 'hate'?
07:46<dihedral:#openttd>i never mentioned the word hate when speaking of ignore lists (or the nicks on it)
07:46<dihedral:#openttd>they are just ruddy annoying :-P
07:47<planetmaker:#openttd>dihedral: easily solvable by using the same client and an rsync upon login to a central server :)
07:48<dihedral:#openttd>yes - good idea
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07:50<dihedral:#openttd>xchat allows for scripts to be executed, perhaps i'll just do that
07:50<planetmaker:#openttd>but maybe something like foxmarks for bookmarks of FF exists for your chat client already :)
07:50<dihedral:#openttd>doubt it
07:51<planetmaker:#openttd>me too :D
07:54<thingwath:#openttd>well, I think that having irssi in screen somewhere is a better solution... :-) (if possible, of course)
07:54<dihedral:#openttd>uh - a module for the bouncer
07:54<dihedral:#openttd>that'd be a perfect solution
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08:03<planetmaker:#openttd>he :P
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08:14<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: Yexo * r15284 /trunk/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: -Fix [FS#2582] (r15045): Parameters were popped from the squirrel stack twice.
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08:20<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>hi -- anybody here who could help me with an NFO-related question?
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08:21<@petern:#openttd>ask the question, don't ask to ask
08:22<@petern:#openttd>looks like you did ask in the forums
08:22<@petern:#openttd>so you might just wait for a reply, heh
08:22<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>yep, heh, thought i might get a different crowd here
08:23<@petern:#openttd>you need to set all properties
08:23<@petern:#openttd>otherwise it will use whatever it was set to originally
08:23<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>such as name, speed etc.?
08:23<@petern:#openttd>don't rely on defaults
08:23<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>i got the impression from the tutorial that overwriting an existing sprite would at least give me the new graphics i supplied
08:24<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>which i get when replacing the SH125 -- but not with an ordinary diesel
08:25<@petern:#openttd>you need to change the ID in your action 0 line too
08:26<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>oh, let's have a look at that
08:26<@petern:#openttd>your snippet is for ID 0x16
08:27<@petern:#openttd>theaction 3 is for ID 0x0F
08:27<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>works perfectly :D
08:27<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>i feel silly
08:27<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>thank you very much
08:28<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>i should've read what i was copying more closely
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08:34<xerxesdaphat:#openttd>cheers, well i better head off to bed, 2.30am here
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08:43<Elukka:#openttd>i cant get that SRTM thing for google earth working :/
08:45-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by DorpsGek
08:46<Elukka:#openttd>anyone used it?
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08:49<Elukka:#openttd>everything's ticked but i dont see the grids or links to download the data
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09:18<Elukka:#openttd>i wonder if this is a vista thing or it just doesnt work with newer versions of google earth
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09:23<fjb:#openttd>What is that SRTM thing?
09:23<Elukka:#openttd>i tried following this
09:24<Elukka:#openttd>"Now, on the pic, you'll notice the two green buttons for S_22_09 and S_23_09"
09:24<Elukka:#openttd>got stuck on this part because there are no little green buttons!
09:25<Roest:#openttd>i could only give you a stargate quote for this
09:25<Roest:#openttd>they are grey not green
09:25<Roest:#openttd>probably doesn't help here
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09:26<Elukka:#openttd>yeah, i have no red, green or grey buttons
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09:27<Elukka:#openttd>couldnt find another source for heightmaps :/
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09:31<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15285 /trunk/src/gamelog.cpp: -Fix: valgrind complaining about reading uninitialised memory when saving
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09:39<edeca:#openttd>Rubidium: How often do you run through valgrind?
09:39<edeca:#openttd>I was considering doing that, but didn't get round to rebuilding my linux partition
09:39<@Rubidium:#openttd>not very often
09:39<@Rubidium:#openttd>because it is *slow*
09:40<edeca:#openttd>Well, valgrind is slow :)
09:40*edeca:#openttd likes kcachegrind too
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10:03<@petern:#openttd>did you know
10:03<@petern:#openttd>that sizeof is not a function?
10:03<@petern:#openttd>and thus 'sizeof lc->revision.text' is correct
10:04<@petern:#openttd>in the same way that 'return (1)' is wrong
10:04<Roest:#openttd>learn something new every day
10:04<edeca:#openttd>What is it, a macro?
10:04<@petern:#openttd>a compile-time operator
10:04<edeca:#openttd>Yeah, an operator, weird! I just googled :)
10:05<@petern:#openttd>you only need parenthesis if you need the sizeof a type rather than a variable
10:06<edeca:#openttd>petern: What led you to the discovery?
10:06<@petern:#openttd>i just thought i'd point it out
10:07<@petern:#openttd>openttd uses sizeof() everywhere
10:07<Elukka:#openttd>...ok, i totally cant find an alternate heightmap source anywhere
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10:07*edeca:#openttd throws rocks at Elukka
10:07*Elukka:#openttd slaps edeca around a bit with a huge manatee
10:08<edeca:#openttd>Elukka: Visit your favorite smut site, run through photoshop to convert to required colours, use in openttd
10:08<Elukka:#openttd>my favourite what site
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10:13<edeca:#openttd>Well according to google, smut means "carbon black: a black colloidal substance consisting wholly or principally of amorphous carbon and used to make pigments and ink "
10:13<edeca:#openttd>But I was using it to refer to teh pr0n
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10:15<SpComb:#openttd>petern: rather, and you can do, like, `sizeof (((struct foo *) NULL)->member)`
10:15<Roest:#openttd>so you saying you make ottd maps from porn images?
10:15<Elukka:#openttd>maps shaped like porn...
10:15<Forked:#openttd>boobie hill
10:16<Forked:#openttd>grand canyon :\
10:17<edeca:#openttd>Roest: Why not? :)
10:17<edeca:#openttd>Heck, you could make whole scenarios
10:17<Roest:#openttd>i didnt judge it, just asking
10:17<Roest:#openttd>interesting idea
10:17<Elukka:#openttd>hmm, ecs
10:17<Elukka:#openttd>"Boobie Hill Tourist Centre"
10:18<Roest:#openttd>so is there a chance that copy&paste will ever make it into trunk or is that feature unwanted?
10:19<Elukka:#openttd>"Accepts: Rubber"
10:19<Elukka:#openttd>..i'll just stop now
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10:24<edeca:#openttd>Roest: It still needs a bit of work. And then it will come down to whether anybody wants it.
10:25<edeca:#openttd>Roest: I tried merging with trunk whilst drinking brandy, which failed :)
10:25<Roest:#openttd>i just merged it because i can't live without it lol
10:26<edeca:#openttd>Roest: You merged from the newer thread (the one I started) ?
10:26*edeca:#openttd == davidc on forums
10:27<edeca:#openttd>Cool. Fancy emailing or PMing me the diff? It would be silly me merging it again.
10:27<edeca:#openttd>I don't think there were many changed.
10:28<@petern:#openttd>SpComb, er, if you insist
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10:30<SpComb:#openttd>petern: very strongly
10:31*SpComb:#openttd annoyed
10:33<Sacro:#openttd>Forked: my friend plays with German town names
10:33<Sacro:#openttd>he has a place called "Hershaven"
10:33<Sacro:#openttd>with stations such as forest, valley...
10:35<Forked:#openttd>I had to read it three times to get it :(
10:35<Elukka:#openttd>me too
10:36<edeca:#openttd>I got it straight away. I must have a rude mind.
10:36<Elukka:#openttd>tangentially related fun fact: you can drive from kissing to petting to fucking in a few hours
10:36<Elukka:#openttd>these are towns in germany and i think one of them was in austria
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10:36<Forked:#openttd>I'm installing vista.. so I sorta tuned out and am in another, way happier place now.. not this world (where I'm currently installing vista)
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10:50<DASPRiD:#openttd>Forked, go away! :/
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10:52<Forked:#openttd>work comp.. not much choice...
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10:57<DASPRiD:#openttd>Forked, when you at least install it in a virtualbox, it'd be fine
11:09<edeca:#openttd>Well if somebody wants to offer me a better way of running lightroom on a PC (not Mac) with 4+ GB of RAM and no Vista :(
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11:14<edeca:#openttd>Rubidium: Actually I haven't tried Lightroom in WINE. It's pretty much the only app that keeps me on Windows full time.
11:14*edeca:#openttd goes home
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12:29<Elukka:#openttd>i want to finish something
12:29<Elukka:#openttd>so i'm making a 128x128 semi-random map and building stuff on it :D
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12:58<Elukka:#openttd>ok, i dont quite get ECS parameters
12:59<Elukka:#openttd>i'm supposed to input 2 to make mines not exhaust
12:59<Elukka:#openttd>to which vector? all of them? the base one?
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13:04<fjb:#openttd>To every vector that should change its behaviour ofcourse.
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd><Sacro> he has a place called "Hershaven" <- my german mind automatically parses it as "Hers - haven", very difficult to actually spot what you mean :)
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13:06<frosch123:#openttd>doesn't he always mean the same?
13:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>of course he does, which kept me looking for it :p
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13:07<Elukka:#openttd>is hershaven an actual place?
13:07<Elukka:#openttd>google only got me lesbians
13:08<Prof_Frink:#openttd>Are you complaining?
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13:19<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i thought those were in austria
13:20<Elukka:#openttd>last base is
13:20<Elukka:#openttd>on a slightly more serious note
13:20<Elukka:#openttd>if i understood the graph correctly, i can have a tourists centre supplied with goods?
13:21<Elukka:#openttd>and i get tourists off houses?
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13:22<Elukka:#openttd>i'd rather not make my little scenario unplayable :D
13:24<el_en:#openttd>does "Quickborn" sound german?
13:25<frosch123:#openttd>"born" is a usualy ending for town names
13:25<frosch123:#openttd>the beginning does not matter a lot
13:25<el_en:#openttd>well, that is an actual town name in Germany.
13:26<el_en:#openttd>it just sounds so englishy to me.
13:29<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>"-born", in south germany more commonly "-brunn" comes from "Brunnen" (meaning a well)
13:31<wollollo:#openttd>Quick is actually a german word
13:31<wollollo:#openttd>erquicken, at least, occurs quite a bit in older german
13:31<wollollo:#openttd>(I've com across it reading Goethe)
13:32<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i've never seen "quick" standing on its own
13:33<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and in "erquicken", it has nothing to do with the english meaning of "quick"
13:33<Sacro:#openttd>Eddi|zuHause: to a german it's fine
13:33<Sacro:#openttd>to a brit... well...
13:33<Sacro:#openttd>hershaven requires a noun ;)
13:35<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>but the etymology of town names is often quite difficult to unravel, and may have completely different meanings
13:36<Sacro:#openttd>well yes
13:37<thingwath:#openttd>sometimes even impossible
13:37*Sacro:#openttd creates a town called Fraurasiert
13:37<Sacro:#openttd>seems fine to me
13:38<Sacro:#openttd>or perhaps Ihrrasiert
13:38<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>for example, there is a plant called "Quecke" (
13:38<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the same word base appears in "Quecksilber" (mercury)
13:39<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>link above is wrong:
13:42<el_en:#openttd>we had the most interesting repeat-after-the-CD sentence on spanish course the other day; something like "¿En Granada están muchos gitanos?"
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13:45<el_en:#openttd>someone might claim that's not an entirely appropriate question in most circumstances.
13:47<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>what circumstances do you mean?
13:47<goodger:#openttd>gitanos meaning what?
13:47<el_en:#openttd>goodger: gypsies
13:47<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>english term would be "gypsies"
13:48<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>german "Zigeuner"
13:51<goodger:#openttd>are you meant to be tested on your knowledge of gypsy density in Granada or just the ability to understand the question?
13:52<el_en:#openttd>it was about the fact that correct intonation makes the difference between a question and a statement.
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13:54<el_en:#openttd>(which is important to remind us about, because in finnish rising intonation is not required nor even desirable when expressing questions.)
13:55<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>common problem of languages which have the same word order in questions and in statements
13:57<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>german switches the subject and the predicate in questions
13:58<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>french also has these inversion questions, but more commonly they just prepend the statement with "est-ce que" (which, funnily, is in itself an inversion question)
14:00<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>in german, raising your intonation in questions in german is mainly a difference if you meant the question rhethorically or not
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14:01<el_en:#openttd>finnish adds -ko/-kö suffix to either the verb or some other word, and also word order is adjusted.
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14:02<Prof_Frink:#openttd>English does what the hell it wants.
14:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>"either the verb or some other words"... sounds very DaleStanish ;)
14:03<Elukka:#openttd>not all questions have ko/kö though
14:03<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>or something. :p
14:03<el_en:#openttd>Elukka: not if there's a real interrogative pronoun.
14:05<+glx:#openttd>'viens-tu ce soir ?' and 'tu viens ce soir ?' are both valid but the second one requires an intonation rise
14:05<Elukka:#openttd>also i made this
14:05<Elukka:#openttd>ok the terrain is mostly random
14:05<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>very similar in german, glx.
14:06<Elukka:#openttd>i think there are 10 cargo types on those little islands to transpot
14:06<Elukka:#openttd>provided i understood the tourists centre correctly..
14:06<thingwath:#openttd>I differentiate questions and statements with a threatening look.
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14:06<+glx:#openttd>thingwath: even on phone?
14:06<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>Elukka: why downscale the picture?
14:07<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>i don't know... i still dislike George's ECS...
14:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>the graphics are totally wrong...
14:08<thingwath:#openttd>glx: mainly on phone. It's safer. :o)
14:08<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>why do fishing grounds have to be a ship?
14:09<Elukka:#openttd>factory ships
14:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>why do the buildings have to be so huge?
14:09<Elukka:#openttd>yeah, i really dont like the fishing grounds either
14:09<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>and so overcrowded?
14:09<Elukka:#openttd>i tend to play at least 1024x1024 on random maps
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14:19<Elukka:#openttd>didnt there use to be a day length patch?
14:19<Elukka:#openttd>or was that just mini-in
14:19<Elukka:#openttd>i also didn't punctuate or capitalize :p
14:21<Elukka:#openttd>why does my scenario use us set, even though i have disabled it?
14:22<planetmaker:#openttd>because it was set in the scenario file?
14:22<Elukka:#openttd>ah, the scenario has separate grf settings
14:23<Elukka:#openttd>i have an excuse though
14:23<Yexo:#openttd>Elukka: a scenario is just a savegame with another extension
14:23<Elukka:#openttd>last time i fiddled with scenarios, there was no ingame grf menu :P
14:25<planetmaker:#openttd>I'm sure that has been this was always.
14:26<planetmaker:#openttd>Or your memory reaches back more than 2 years
14:33<Elukka:#openttd>it does
14:34<el_en:#openttd>is there a swede here who knows how to write swedish?
14:34<Elukka:#openttd>back then you had to write the filenames of newgrfs into the cfg, i think
14:37<OwenS:#openttd>George should have gone for AOE stylefishing grounds
14:37<OwenS:#openttd>That is, jumping fish :p
14:38<thingwath:#openttd>they just can't wait to get out of the water
14:39<Elukka:#openttd>hm :/
14:39<Elukka:#openttd>adding the "2" parameter didnt make mines inexhaustible
14:39<Elukka:#openttd>i think i'm misunderstanding parameters or something
14:39<Elukka:#openttd>what the...
14:40<Elukka:#openttd>minimizing the game while its sped up makes things go.. quick
14:40<Elukka:#openttd>while i wrote that sentence 2 years went by
14:40<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>of course, it goes quicker when it can skip the drawing
14:41<Elukka:#openttd>i never knew it meant "go as fast as it can"
14:41<Elukka:#openttd>i thought it was a fixed speed
14:42<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>no, it was always meant as "go as fast as you can"
14:42<Elukka:#openttd>well you always learn something new
14:44<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: frosch * r15286 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Refitting did not invalidate vehicle-colour-maps of road-vehicles, ships and aircraft, as well vehicle-length of road-vehicles.
14:44<Wolf01:#openttd>I once played at school... 55 years passed during the lesson... was a loooon hour
14:47<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>frosch123: is that what Uwe was reporting?
14:47<Elukka:#openttd>sometimes, time appears to slow down in school
14:47<frosch123:#openttd>but I got tired of that FS#UserNotAbleToUseFS stuff
14:47<Elukka:#openttd>we should call this scholastic time dilation
14:48<OwenS:#openttd>Interestingl the effect seems to decrease the further you go through education :P
14:49<Zuu:#openttd>el_en: Still need a Swede? And for what purpose?
14:49<Elukka:#openttd>owen, the interest factor has to be taken into account
14:49<Wolf01:#openttd>that's because at later years you do anything not related to school instead of study
14:50<@petern:#openttd>frosch123, i only did that if it was a bug 'reported' on IRC as 'that bug i mentioned the other day'
14:50<Wolf01:#openttd>that was me
14:50<OwenS:#openttd>In later years you do less of the stuff you dislike you mean :p
14:52<el_en:#openttd>Zuu: i assume "apelsin läskedryck" should be written without a space? am i correct?
14:54<Zuu:#openttd>Yep, there shouldn't be a space there.
14:55<el_en:#openttd>I'm writing a complaint to a finnish drink manufacturer about extra spaces.
14:55<el_en:#openttd>in the labels.
14:55<Zuu:#openttd>You are from finland?
14:56<el_en:#openttd>I sure am.
14:56<Eddi|zuHause:#openttd>that is not exactly a new information
14:57<thingwath:#openttd>complaints about grammar...
14:58<thingwath:#openttd>in fact, I complained about bad grammar on signs in our local shop few months ago, and they even fixed it :) (when they finally understood what I mean)
14:59<Zuu:#openttd>Putting in an extra space between combined words is a pretty common mistake in swedish, as there should be a space in the english counter part of the combined word.
15:00<el_en:#openttd>and is also common in finnish, but still wrong.
15:01<el_en:#openttd>i think finnish and swedish have quite similar rules about what should be written with and without a space.
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15:06<goodger:#openttd>"counterpart" should be written without one, for instance
15:07<el_en:#openttd>how wrong would "counter-part" be?
15:07<Zuu:#openttd>el_en: Probably as worng as using a '-' in our languages where there should be no space.
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15:47<SmoovTruck:#openttd>about the NoAI computer players available... RandomAI... is that the name of the AI, or does that pick one of the AI's at random?
15:47<Wolf01:#openttd>who knows?
15:48<SmoovTruck:#openttd>somebody here, which is why I ask here.:P
15:48<Wolf01:#openttd>the second :P
15:48<Yexo:#openttd>it picks one of the available AIs at random
15:48<Yexo:#openttd>you could have seen that by clicking on it and noticing there were no description/author/version in the lower box :p
15:49<Wolf01:#openttd>I think you should add it a random description to confuse people a little more
15:49<Yexo:#openttd>author: someone
15:49<Yexo:#openttd>version: > 0
15:49<Zuu:#openttd>Even better, someone should make an AI that is named RandomAI, that picks actions totaly on random :-)
15:50<SmoovTruck:#openttd>well, I've had 3rd party addons in other games that looked like that, thinking it would pick at random, when someone just made it the name and it was its own AI
15:50<Zuu:#openttd>Given that the dialog is named AI Settings, AI could possible be removed from "RandomAI".
15:51<SmoovTruck:#openttd>can we set global defaults on them? (instead of having to go through every player and set RandomAI to the same new date, for instance... just globally set RandomAI to always use 1000 days to begin)
15:51<SmoovTruck:#openttd>maybe lowercase it too, so it doesn't look like the name of an AI
15:51<Wolf01:#openttd>I think I'll make an AI which terraforms and add random trackbits around your properties... I might call it LamerAI, just to simulate multiplayer morons on singleplayer :P
15:51<Zuu:#openttd>You can click on a value to set it in an edit box on most things in OpenTTD that has increase/decrease buttons.
15:52<SmoovTruck:#openttd>perhaps a DoofusAI which never cleans up its mistakes, leaving stray track-bits where it overshot laying the route.... (seeing players do that always annoys me. :) )
15:52<Zuu:#openttd>Which should reduce some of your clickings but is sure not the answer to your question.
15:53<SmoovTruck:#openttd>Zuu, yes, but that doesn't seem to do it globally, only for #3, for instance
15:53<SmoovTruck:#openttd>like, some AI defaults
15:53<Zuu:#openttd>Yes that is still only local for that AI.
15:53<Yexo:#openttd>I can't think of a clean way to implement per-AI player-settable defaults
15:53<SmoovTruck:#openttd>I do like the new AI/GRF downloader in the nightly tho... very nice
15:53<Yexo:#openttd>and I don't they are really needed either
15:54<Yexo:#openttd>Ais can set defaults per difficulty level
15:54<SmoovTruck:#openttd>well, they would be needed in the case if RandomAI, if it picks one at random, what settings is the picked AI going to use?
15:54<Yexo:#openttd>they'll use the default settings
15:55<SmoovTruck:#openttd>which can be set, where?
15:55<Yexo:#openttd>default values are specified by the AI, not by the user
15:55<Zuu:#openttd>Still based on difficulty. Problem for players is to know how AI settings are affected by difficulty.
15:55<Yexo:#openttd>if you don't want to use the default settings, don't specify random as AI
15:55<SmoovTruck:#openttd>which is where we should be able to set user-defaults...
15:56<Yexo:#openttd>Zuu: why is that a problem? you can only change AI settings on the custom difficulty level
15:56<Yexo:#openttd>if you change a setting on a non-custom level, the difficulty level will be set to custom
15:56<Zuu:#openttd>Yexo: It is a problem to the players that they don't know which AI specific settings that are affected by the difficulty.
15:57<SmoovTruck:#openttd>that's silly, only being able to choose one way or the other... either, I can have AI's picked at random with default settings, or computer player #1, will always be the same AI, with non-default settings...
15:57<Zuu:#openttd>If they want to control things on the level SmoovTruck is trying to do.
15:57<SmoovTruck:#openttd>screw the difficulty level... it is always on custom when I play anyways
15:59<SmoovTruck:#openttd>one AI may be better than another AI, and being able to configure them individually, so the AI always uses that configuration if it is selected, may help to balance out a strong and weak AI
16:00<Yexo:#openttd>SmoovTruck: if you want to set default values to desperate, just edit the info.nut of the AIs
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16:04<SmoovTruck:#openttd>can always do that, but if we're gonna have an AI GUI, and have all that space in the configure window, which so far, all I've seen in there is # of days to start, then should put other common settings specific to the AI in there too... non-experimental stuff, defined by the AI
16:04<SmoovTruck:#openttd>like, if an AI is made, where you can configure the ratio of road vehicles to trains being created, or if you want to set the AI to only build normal rails, etc etc
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16:04<Zuu:#openttd>Try AdmiralAI
16:04<Yexo:#openttd>SmoovTruck: it's up to the Ais to specify those settings
16:05<SmoovTruck:#openttd>I know even tho NoAI made trunk now, it is still a work in progress
16:05<Yexo:#openttd>admiralAI has like 8 settings
16:05<SmoovTruck:#openttd>I'm still going through it
16:05<Yexo:#openttd>convoy has an aggressive setting
16:05<Yexo:#openttd>and pathzilla has a planning speed and an agressive setting
16:06<SmoovTruck:#openttd>Yexo... yeah, that's exactly what I mean, but as far as I can tell, I can only set that per-instance...
16:07<Yexo:#openttd>that's right, and as I said, I don't see the need to set that per-AI instead of per-instance
16:07<SmoovTruck:#openttd>perhaps something like having Random, pick a random preset... or pick a random AI, and then pick a random preset after the AI selection, or something
16:07<Yexo:#openttd>if someone else wants to write a patch to implement it in a clean way, feel free
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16:08<SmoovTruck:#openttd>how do you not see the need for that?!
16:08<Yexo:#openttd>that's right
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16:09<SmoovTruck:#openttd>yeah, I've been there trying to make patches for OpenTTD... and being a truck driver now just doesn't give me the time anymore to really get into that again like I want to... if I did, I'd get my chat and subsidies patches current again
16:09<Zuu:#openttd>Randomize the settings for random AIs I guess is not to hard. Depending a bit on if there should be a GUI setting to enable/disable randomization of the settings for the picked AI or not.
16:09<Yexo:#openttd>Zuu: already possible if the AI specifies that
16:10<SmoovTruck:#openttd>don't want to randomize them... want to configure specific AI's to a specific behavior
16:10<Yexo:#openttd>it can use flags=AICONFIG_RANDOM to get a random value if the user sets none
16:10<SmoovTruck:#openttd>via the gui
16:10<Yexo:#openttd>and it can use random_deviation to make sure the user can't set an exact value
16:11<dihedral:#openttd>SmoovTruck: via the gui?
16:11<Zuu:#openttd>You could use a die to pick which AIs to use and then configure the AIs yourself :-)
16:11<SmoovTruck:#openttd>because it is there? ... best response I can give you is "Why not?"
16:11<dihedral:#openttd>why not is not a good answer
16:12<dihedral:#openttd>you have to go by answering the 'why' not the 'why not'
16:12<SmoovTruck:#openttd>I've been talking about reasons why to do it for 20 minutes now... but nobody has offered much in the way of reasons why not to do it?
16:12<Zuu:#openttd>Also it is not there. As if it where, you could do it straight ahead?
16:12<SmoovTruck:#openttd>have you been following the discussion? I _have_ been answering the 'why' for 20 minutes now
16:12*dihedral:#openttd goes to read the logs
16:13<dihedral:#openttd>well - actually i was more after the 'why do you want to use the gui' ;-D
16:13<SmoovTruck:#openttd>Zuu... if it was there, and I could do it straight ahead, we wouldn't be having this conversation
16:14<Yexo:#openttd>SmoovTruck: as I said, I'm not against it, but as I don't see the need for it I'm not going to implement it myself
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16:14<Zuu:#openttd>But your argument for "why not" was that it is straight there.
16:14<Yexo:#openttd>if someone gives me a clean patch I'll have a look at it
16:14<doc:#openttd>is it just me or is it really hard to get transported goods above the mid 8x% level?
16:14<SmoovTruck:#openttd>ahh... >grins<... well, for one, the GUI would prevent me from putting in absurd settings... being able to just quickly make adjustments without having to exit...
16:15<Yexo:#openttd>doc: make sure you always have a vehicle waiting in the station and build a statue in the town
16:15<doc:#openttd>for example, I've got trains sitting in the station but they're not loading up goods
16:15<frosch123:#openttd>doc: with wagon speed limits and without statues it is quite hard
16:15<SmoovTruck:#openttd>gotta figure that the majority of people using the client, wouldn't be as comfortable with editing config files like we would be
16:15<doc:#openttd>really? a statue?!
16:15<doc:#openttd>how does that make any logical sense?
16:15<frosch123:#openttd>it is permanent advertising
16:15<dihedral:#openttd>SmoovTruck, but where are most ai's run?
16:15<worldemar:#openttd>doc: sort of advertisement
16:15<dihedral:#openttd>singleplayer or multiplayer
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16:16<Yexo:#openttd>dihedral: singleplayer :)
16:16<dihedral:#openttd>Yexo... shhhh :-P
16:16<doc:#openttd>ok, statue it is!
16:16<worldemar:#openttd>i played openttd and made 91% rating without advertising and statues
16:16<SmoovTruck:#openttd>dihedral... well, probably in single-player... but when I ran a server, I would allow 1 or 2 companies to run an AI
16:16<worldemar:#openttd>just optimal station + good trains
16:16<dihedral:#openttd>again please
16:16<dihedral:#openttd>you allowed 1 or 2 companies to run an AI?
16:17<dihedral:#openttd>i.e. you did not start an ai on the server directly?
16:17<SmoovTruck:#openttd>yes, I allowed 1 or 2 companies to run an AI in multiplayer
16:17<doc:#openttd>worldemar: yeah, I'm having the problem with goods trains
16:17<SmoovTruck:#openttd>this was pre-NoAI
16:17<dihedral:#openttd>i was just thinking that!
16:17<doc:#openttd>although I probably have too many entry/exits for this station but in any case there are trains sitting in the station not being loaded
16:18<SmoovTruck:#openttd>well, I get tired of seeing basically the same thing all the time on the servers, I liked trying to run a server doing something different... think I was the only one at the time allowing 1 AI computer player
16:18<Elukka:#openttd>91%? how can you get that high a rating anyway?
16:18<dihedral:#openttd>check out autopilot or ap+
16:18<Elukka:#openttd>i had 1-3 trains loading constantly on one of my stations and it didnt go above 70% something with a statue and advertising
16:18<dihedral:#openttd>they can run console commands for you
16:18<worldemar:#openttd>doc: keep in mind, if it is 1940's or 1950's and you just cannot buy good powerful and fast train, then you cannot make rating so high
16:19<dihedral:#openttd>and thus allow you to customise your server a wee bit more
16:19<SmoovTruck:#openttd>dihedral... I don't run a server anymore... I don't have reliable bandwidth on the road...
16:19<frosch123:#openttd>Elukka: transport the goods with 200 km/h, and without long loading times
16:19<doc:#openttd>worldemar: it's 2200 or so :)
16:19<frosch123:#openttd>then you will get 99% rating
16:19<worldemar:#openttd>doc: maglev can do 100%
16:19<Elukka:#openttd>i thought full load helped
16:20<Elukka:#openttd>doesnt the rating go down when nothings loading and the goods go to waste?
16:20<frosch123:#openttd>yes, but it does also go down when the time from starting loading to delivery is too long
16:20<frosch123:#openttd>i.e. more shorter trains are better for rating
16:20<Yexo:#openttd>frosch123: was that changed recently?
16:21<doc:#openttd>worldemar: hmmm, I've got 1 exits/entries per 5 lane station and trains sitting in the station and now with statue it's up from 82% to 90%
16:21<doc:#openttd>going to see what happens next month
16:21<Yexo:#openttd>but it does also go down when the time from starting loading to delivery is too long <- that
16:21<SmoovTruck:#openttd>oh, speaking of full load... had another question... was playing on another server briefly that had some industry grf's loaded... ECS I think? (destination industry would fill up sometimes and stop accepting cargo for a while)
16:21<frosch123:#openttd>Yexo: it is just the average train speed
16:21<SmoovTruck:#openttd>if I have a vehicle set to 'unload', will it wait at the station until it is fully unloaded, similarly to
16:21<SmoovTruck:#openttd>full load's behavior?
16:22<Zuu:#openttd>It will unload regardless if the cargo is accepted or not, as far as I know.
16:22<worldemar:#openttd>doc: 3 lane station with separate exits... or even separate lines. really, i better show you screenshot of my station with high ratings, but haven't savegame now to snap it :(
16:22<Elukka:#openttd>would be nice if it waited until it accepted again
16:22<Elukka:#openttd>the best solution though: dont try to jam everything into one factory
16:22<SmoovTruck:#openttd>a prototypical train would wait
16:23<Zuu:#openttd>You can use conditional orders to loop around the factory and visit it regulary untill the train is empty if you wish.
16:23<Zuu:#openttd>But probably better is to go to first factory and then if not empty go to another factory.
16:23<SmoovTruck:#openttd>nah, that wouldn't be prototypical
16:23<SmoovTruck:#openttd>that wouldn't be either
16:24<Elukka:#openttd>better than throwing the cargo to waste, though
16:25<Yexo:#openttd>frosch123: it's not average speed but max speed, so long loading times don't matter
16:25<Yexo:#openttd>economy.cpp line 1643 if you wonder
16:25<Elukka:#openttd>...ok, why would a coal mine care how fast my trains go as long as i make timely deliveries?
16:25<SmoovTruck:#openttd>I can answer that. :)
16:26<Elukka:#openttd>you can?
16:26<Zuu:#openttd>Elukka: max speed being an approximation of time it takes for delivery perhaps.
16:26<Elukka:#openttd>isnt delivery time already watched for the actual payment?
16:26<SmoovTruck:#openttd>the longer the cargo is exposed to the elements, the less it is worth... clean cargo brings in more money, so the faster it can deliver, the higher grade it will be on delivery
16:27<Elukka:#openttd>so why not have it be dependent on actual delivery time?
16:27<SmoovTruck:#openttd>well, I'm a flatbed trucker now. :)
16:27<doc:#openttd>worldemar: thanks, yeah, I realised 3 lane was better but didn't have enough space for this specific station.
16:28<SmoovTruck:#openttd>and particularly at power stations, they're very dependent on timely deliveries
16:28<doc:#openttd>will increased ratings increase your income?
16:29<SmoovTruck:#openttd>might not be a bad idea, if it doesn't
16:30<doc:#openttd>imo it should, given you're getting more of the produce to market?
16:30<@Rubidium:#openttd>ratings will increase the amount of cargo that goes to your vehicles
16:30<SmoovTruck:#openttd>nothing major, but perhaps a 5-10% difference depending if the ratings are appalling or outstanding
16:30<doc:#openttd>ok, well, it went from 82% to 99% on one station
16:30<Yexo:#openttd>doc: indirectly it does, since higher rating -> more goods -> more income
16:30<SmoovTruck:#openttd><Rubidium> ratings will increase the amount of cargo that goes to your vehicles <--- there is that too
16:31<doc:#openttd>Yexo: ok, cool, that's what I'd have expected. Ok, thanks
16:31<Zuu:#openttd>Yexo: Depends on if you had spend a lot to improve your service the last percent, then it might actually lower your mean income of that route.
16:31<doc:#openttd>now all I need to do is figure out how to shove a big station into a space where there's nowhere to fit a station
16:31<doc:#openttd>underground stations would be a nice idea :)
16:31<Elukka:#openttd>the answer is excessive terraforming
16:32<Zuu:#openttd>Well the income, won't be lowered but the proffit.
16:32<SmoovTruck:#openttd>a bi-level station like some RL passenger terminals?
16:32<doc:#openttd>I've got one factory creating 15,000 crates of goods a month but I can only ship out 55% :/
16:32<doc:#openttd>and that's with trains sitting in the station
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16:33<frosch123:#openttd>Yexo: ok, seems like I mixed it up with payment
16:33<SmoovTruck:#openttd>Rubidium... I like what you guys did with the advanced options menu... very nicely done. :) looks so much better than the old patches menu
16:33<Elukka:#openttd>now for some mount&blade
16:33<Elukka:#openttd>i need to whack some medieval people with large axes
16:34<SmoovTruck:#openttd>doc... you could make an asymmetrical station... get one track in as far as you need to, then link the other platforms to the first one, further out where you have more room
16:35<doc:#openttd>SmoovTruck: it's kind of cheating though, isn't it? :/
16:36<doc:#openttd>not very realistic
16:36<Zuu:#openttd>And when the station spread (default = 12) becomes to small you can increase it in advanced settings.
16:36<Zuu:#openttd>Though I would love to play on a MP server with that setting set to maximum 12. 8 or even smaller would be nice.
16:37<SmoovTruck:#openttd>doc... no, not cheating... dropping a lone unused square inside just to increase catchement area, detached from the station, is cheating...
16:37<SmoovTruck:#openttd>and there is a realistic basis to it... there are a lot of loading areas that are offset for one reason or another
16:38<Zuu:#openttd>I onece played on a server that had station spread set to 4, that was quite a different challenge :)
16:38<SmoovTruck:#openttd>not ideal, but if you're at the point of just having to make it fit, prototype will do it
16:38<doc:#openttd>I want to be able to buy roads from competitors :/
16:38<doc:#openttd>or create a situation where I can destroy their roads if I create a route they can use
16:39<doc:#openttd>or even buy stations etc, it's annoying when they shove a station into the one spot you could expand into
16:39<SmoovTruck:#openttd>road waypoints would be nice to, to take the bridge instead of going over the track
16:40<doc:#openttd>that's why I like trams
16:40<@Rubidium:#openttd>SmoovTruck: use the nightlies
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16:40<SmoovTruck:#openttd>I am
16:41<@Rubidium:#openttd>make a drive through road stop and set go via order
16:41<@Rubidium:#openttd>there's your road waypoint
16:41<SmoovTruck:#openttd>have to look again... didn't notice any road waypoint building tools, but I wasn't looking for it so much
16:41<SmoovTruck:#openttd>oh, no, not what I had in mind...
16:42<SmoovTruck:#openttd>it is a problem when the game is set to not allow those on town-owned roads
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16:43<SmoovTruck:#openttd>urban sprawl sometimes creates alternate routes that the pathfinder prefers
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16:51<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15287 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp:
16:51<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Cleanup: some code style, remove erroneous comment.
16:51<CIA-1:#openttd>OpenTTD: -Document: the fact that zlib reads uninitialised data (valgrind notices this) and that it won't be fixed in zlib and that we can't do anything about it except ignoring it.
16:52<doc:#openttd>what does it mean when looking at the local authority dialog and seeing a red dot beside your name? :)
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16:52<@Rubidium:#openttd>probably that you've bribed the local authority and got caught
16:53<angelo:#openttd>that they get acne when they see you
16:53<doc:#openttd>yes :)
16:53<doc:#openttd>although I had the red dot before I got caught I think
16:54<doc:#openttd>trying to build a station in the middle of a city, even one to bring goods and passengers, is annoying and expensive in bribes. Realistic I suppose. :)
16:54<@Rubidium:#openttd>oh, you've got the exclusive rights
16:54<doc:#openttd>nope, I wasn't even operating in the town while the cpu players were
16:56<@petern:#openttd>red dot is exclusive rights
17:00<doc:#openttd>ok, there's definitely another operator working in this town
17:00<doc:#openttd>might be time to update
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17:23<doc:#openttd>how do you retrieve an autosaved game :/
17:24<doc:#openttd>seems autosave didn't do any more recent than my own save
17:24<doc:#openttd>unless I'm missing something?
17:24<Wolf01:#openttd> :O
17:25<Zuu:#openttd>autosaves are as most frequent every month.
17:25<Zuu:#openttd>Depends on your settings in Game Options.
17:25<worldemar:#openttd>Wolf01: what are they doeing?! 0_0
17:25<doc:#openttd>Zuu: yeah, and seems to not be caring about it when I try to reload the most recent savegame
17:26<Zuu:#openttd>Do you load the autosave in the top of list, or the one with last timestamp (looking in your filesystem) or the one with highest/lowest number?
17:27<Zuu:#openttd>Also you should see some red text in the statusbar at the bottom when it autosaves.
17:27<Zuu:#openttd>If your computer is slow enough it should lag a lot when it autosaves.
17:27<doc:#openttd>ah, wait, there's a separate autosave dir
17:28<doc:#openttd>it was in there
17:28<Elukka:#openttd>ECS spams silly amounts of fishing stuff
17:28<Elukka:#openttd>i'd rather it be a building on the shore :/
17:29<@Rubidium:#openttd>Elukka: you enabled multiple industries per town...
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17:29<Elukka:#openttd>that's... true
17:29<worldemar:#openttd>Elukka: can player see fishing area? is it marked by something?
17:29<Elukka:#openttd>that wasnt my screenshot though :P
17:29<Elukka:#openttd>how about fishery buildings?
17:30<worldemar:#openttd>fishery buildings... in ocean. not so realistic, but ottd has many unrealistic things
17:30<doc:#openttd>argh, this stupid road ownership!
17:30<Elukka:#openttd>how about the shore? :P
17:31<doc:#openttd>I can quite happily build a bridge for them, but no, instead I have to buy their entire company! :/
17:31<worldemar:#openttd>Elukka: best for me is to make tile with fish, and mark it as mmm "CityName's shore" for example
17:31<Elukka:#openttd>that could also work
17:32<worldemar:#openttd>mmm... tile may be animated
17:32*worldemar:#openttd dreams about swimming fish tile
17:33<Elukka:#openttd>it could use some building, though
17:33<Elukka:#openttd>it'd feel weird laying track to... fish
17:33<Elukka:#openttd>if it were really awesome you could have fisheries with their own fishing ships moving out to sea and coming back... but that'd be way too much effort
17:33<worldemar:#openttd>but placing a big building such as refinery...
17:34<worldemar:#openttd>we have ships, why roads to fish?
17:34<@Rubidium:#openttd>trains are faster than ships...
17:34<worldemar:#openttd>or you mean track == route?
17:35<Elukka:#openttd>i like ships
17:35<Elukka:#openttd>when i have practically infinite money, i rather use a combination of vehicles to get something from one shore to another rather than a huge bridge
17:35<Elukka:#openttd>looks better, is generally more realistic, still makes a profit
17:37<worldemar:#openttd>Rubidium: if i want to make train route i'll raise landscape as i do near oil rigs :)
17:37<worldemar:#openttd>raise, place rails, let train do it's job
17:38<worldemar:#openttd>but fish basically (as i think) should be oriented for ships
17:42<worldemar:#openttd>so silent... am i sayed something wrong?
17:42<Elukka:#openttd>i'm just tired :D
17:43<@Rubidium:#openttd>then pause openttd and go to bed
17:43<Elukka:#openttd>i actually dotn have openttd running
17:43<Elukka:#openttd>i was playing mount&blade but it insisted on crashing
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17:51<SmoovTruck:#openttd>use helicopters for fishing
17:55<Elukka:#openttd>or hovercraft!
17:56<Elukka:#openttd>there is a risk your hovercraft may get full of eels
17:57<janitor:#openttd>do oil rigs ever close?
17:58<@Rubidium:#openttd>they can
17:59<janitor:#openttd>they popped up like crazy in my current game
18:00<janitor:#openttd>i'm not asking for any support though, as i have no idea what i'm playing
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18:01<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Hello All
18:02<Nite_Owl:#openttd>Hello janitor
18:03<janitor:#openttd>you already said hello
18:04<@Rubidium:#openttd>@seen All
18:04<@DorpsGek:#openttd>Rubidium: All was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 32 weeks, 4 days, 13 hours, 9 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <all> hello kaan
18:04<@Rubidium:#openttd>nope, he was greeting someone who hasn't been here for a long time
18:05<Nite_Owl:#openttd>yes but I was being kind and replying on a personal level to your reply
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18:06<janitor:#openttd>Rubidium: my bad
18:06<janitor:#openttd>Nite_Owl: thanks, then :)
18:07<Nite_Owl:#openttd>not a problem
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 27 18:16:56 2009
---Logopened Tue Jan 27 18:17:04 2009
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18:17<doc>what is 'others' on the yearly financial report when there are no bribes?
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18:20<@Rubidium>payment for your vat registration number?
18:21-!-Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:22<@Rubidium>just some small fee so doing nothing is going to make you bankrupt
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18:22<janitor>sounds like a conspiracy
18:26<worldemar>Rubidium: but there is "loan interest"
18:27<worldemar>but if i haven't loan and have positive balance...
18:27<worldemar>example: buying an AI and selling his trains, return all loan and have some $ ... hmm
18:29*worldemar gave up translating "my bad"
18:33<doc>is there a way to have trams use a station in parallel?
18:33<doc>if I build two stations right beside each other for example they'll still just use one
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18:37<SmatZ>doc: I think the problem with RVs choosing roadstops far-from-optimally is a reported bug
18:37<SmatZ>doc: have a look at some openttdcoop games :)
18:38<SmatZ>sometimes it just works ;)
18:39<doc>SmatZ: ok, cool, thanks
18:41<worldemar>one station can "spread", so it's possible to build two different planforms owned by one station, parallel usage may be made by pre-signals
18:41<worldemar>by default, only 12 squares
18:41<SmatZ>worldemar: if there will ever be presignals from trams
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18:42<worldemar>oops, yes
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18:48<worldemar>presignal for busses...
18:48<janitor>traffic signals?
18:48*worldemar is going crazy
18:49<janitor>there is a traffic signal patch
18:49<worldemar>they dosen't work as pre-
18:49<worldemar>or does?
18:49<janitor>or do
18:50<worldemar>can tey help to split one-road traffic to two roads...
18:51<worldemar>and: if ships will not be able to pass one through another, we need pre-signals for canals >_<
18:54<janitor>no, we need proper pathfinding
18:55<janitor>pre-signals is just a hack
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19:04<worldemar>they are useful )
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19:56<worldemar>4:45, and it's time to sleep for a while...
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20:06<De_Ghosty>what we really need is signal in tunnels and bridges :D
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20:20<Eddi|zuHause>go ahead ;)
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20:57<Vaevictus>good evening all! i started playing with heightmaps with 0.6.3, and it seems like it never generates bubble factories. can anyone reproduce this symptom? (seems to work fine with normal generation)
21:09<kd5pbo>Is there a handy way to get the channel bot to report the latest changes to trunk?
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd commit
21:09<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r15287 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2009-01-27 21:51:06 UTC)
21:09<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: -Cleanup: some code style, remove erroneous comment.
21:09<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: -Document: the fact that zlib reads uninitialised data (valgrind notices this) and that it won't be fixed in zlib and that we can't do anything about it except ignoring it.
21:09<kd5pbo>Any way to get the past N commits?
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you can give a number. but talk to the bot in private
21:10<kd5pbo>Will do.
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>much easier would be to get an svn checkout and use svn log, though :p
21:11<kd5pbo>Well, true
21:12<kd5pbo>Did the trick.
21:21*Vaevictus looks at john mcmurray
21:29<kd5pbo>Yeah, yeah.
21:29<kd5pbo>C freaking Q.
21:29*Vaevictus <-- kc0kef
21:30<Vaevictus>so ... anyone in here wanna fire up a copy of trunk or 063 to see if they also get no bubble factories when spawning a heightmap based map?
21:36<@Belugas>sounds like a real exciting activity
21:36<@Belugas>i'll pass the opportunity
21:39<Vaevictus>not that difficult... click candyland, click play heightmap, select a heightmap, check map for bubble factories :)
21:39<@Belugas>clicking on stuff ? yurk... too lazy to do that
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21:45<kd5pbo>What is that?
21:46<Vaevictus>a heightmap :)
21:47<Vaevictus>the black is sea level, the grey is a bit higher
21:51<@Belugas>honestly, as long as it works in trunk, i would not care too much about it. But somehow, i think i kind of remembering a fix about it, although i'm not too sure, to be honest
21:52<@Belugas>but it does work in trunk
21:52<Vaevictus>yeah, works for me if it works in trunk. :)
21:52<Vaevictus>there's apparently other issues too :)
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21:54<Pikka>There's a song that I recall my mother sang to me, she sang it as she tucked me in when I was ninety-three...
21:58<Eddi|zuHause>the night reveals the weirdest kind of people :p
21:59<Pikka>hello Eddi
22:00<@Belugas>adn it goes like this "tut tuut tuut tutututut"
22:00<Aali>it's not night in .au
22:01<Vaevictus>Belugas: you're sure it works in trunk?
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22:01<Vaevictus>i get similar results in trunk
22:03<Vaevictus>no bubble generator in candyland, no farm or forest in cold climate,
22:03<Vaevictus>no water stuff in desert
22:04<Vaevictus>no lumber mill either in desert
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22:05<Vaevictus>normal climate dosen't have bank, oil rig, or oil refinery, but that's probably "okay"
22:06<Eddi|zuHause>banks and oil rigs are not created on game generation
22:06<Vaevictus>genertated a max size world... about 380+ of each type, but zero bubble generators
22:06<Vaevictus>Eddi|zuHause: that's why i said it was "okay"
22:14<Vaevictus>Eddi|zuHause: what about forests and farms in the cold climate?
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>Vaevictus: forests only above, farms only below snow line
22:15<Vaevictus>lemme make a new heightmap with a bit more variance
22:15<Vaevictus>i suppose there's an area in between with neither?
22:16<@Belugas>well... unless my repo is too heavily broken up, i'd say it does work
22:16<Vaevictus>Belugas: what heightmap are you using?
22:16<@Belugas>a litebrite designe made for my son
22:17<@Belugas>ther is NO difference whatsoever in the generation process
22:17<@Belugas>therefor, it might very well be your heighmaps that do not provide required landscape
22:17<Vaevictus>Belugas: i'd hope so. :)
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22:20<@Belugas>make a test, run a very flat heighmap and see what it does
22:20<@Belugas>experiment, in other words
22:21<Vaevictus>i'm working on that already :)
22:21*Vaevictus fires up the test
22:22<Vaevictus>look ... a farm. in the middle of my "generating world" view
22:22*Vaevictus blames it all on mspaint ;)
22:23<@Belugas>as soon as you have ms in your stuff, you know you'll going to blame... ms for it :)
22:23<Vaevictus>looks like a big area in the middle altitudes with neither forest nor farms... and happens to contain #808080
22:24<Vaevictus>which was my color :)
22:24<Vaevictus>bubble generators too :)
22:24<Vaevictus>thanks Belugas ... you're a genius...
22:25<Vaevictus>is there any page somewhere which lists altitude requirements?
22:25<@Belugas>Vaevictus, not a genius at all, believe me
22:25<@Belugas>simple logic and knowledge of the system :)
22:26<@Belugas>as for the wiki, dunno
22:26<Eddi|zuHause>src/table/industry_land.h i'd say ;)
22:26<@Belugas>let say wiki is not really my first reference tool :)
22:26<@Belugas>yup to Eddi|zuHause
22:28<Eddi|zuHause>or src/table/build_industry.h
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22:35<Vaevictus>hmm... can't find it
22:37<@Belugas>Use The Source, Luke
22:37<Vaevictus>yeah, working on it.
22:37<Vaevictus>not finding it
22:37<@Belugas>Let The POWER of the SVN be always with Ya
22:37<Vaevictus>i'm looking at those files you mentioned...
22:38<@Belugas>build_industry.h is THE file to look for
22:38<Vaevictus>yeah... didn't see anything relevant the first time around
22:42<Vaevictus>i'm guessing it's the CHECK_FOREST
22:42<Vaevictus>or something
22:47<@Belugas>or somehting maybe... i'd may be tempted to look for SLOPE_STEEP or something alike :)
22:48<Vaevictus>that looks like it's related to graphics
22:48<Vaevictus>could be though
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22:51<kd5pbo1>Anybody wanna work as an army historian?
22:51<kd5pbo1>I meant to send it to someone else.
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22:52<Vaevictus>Belugas/ Eddi|zuHause : i'm lost in the code. i still think it's related to CHECK_FOREST and the CheckProc enum... but i don't know where that gets applied
22:54<@Belugas>kd5pbo, i'm totally halergic to anything that touches from deep nor far to army stuff... so... no thanks
22:55<kd5pbo>A history major friend is looking for a job.
22:55<@Belugas>Vaevictus, you are on a goose chase/ the code works fine
22:55<@Belugas>kd5pbo, a lot of people are looking for a job
22:56<Vaevictus>Belugas: i concur, the code works fine. but i want to design a good height map :)
22:56<kd5pbo>Life as a CS major is good.
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22:59<@Belugas>life as a programmer is good
22:59<@Belugas>andf fuck the army
23:00<@Belugas>Vaevictus, i do undestand
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23:03<@Belugas>just note that the bubble factory needs flat ground
23:03<Vaevictus>and a certain altitude :)
23:07<Vaevictus>looks like bub gens are 50,100,and 150ft elevatoins
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23:09<@Belugas>static bool CheckNewIndustry_BubbleGen(TileIndex tile)
23:09<@Belugas> return GetTileZ(tile) <= TILE_HEIGHT * 4;
23:12<Vaevictus>where's that?
23:12<Vaevictus>forests start at 450' looks like
23:12<Vaevictus>farms below 200'
23:14<Vaevictus>and in desert, water stuff below 150'
23:14<@Belugas>that is in industr_cmd.cpp, around 1166
23:15<Vaevictus>i just barely missed that one
23:17<Vaevictus>cool, thanks
23:17*Vaevictus heads to bed!
23:23<@Belugas>so am i
23:23<@Belugas>newobjects is a little bit closer to reality now...
23:23<@Belugas>we'll see
23:25<Vaevictus>thanks again
23:28<Pikka>newobjects newobjects rah rah rah! *waves pompoms*
23:28<Pikka>gnight guys
---Logclosed Wed Jan 28 00:00:32 2009