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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-03

---Logopened Tue Feb 03 00:00:43 2009
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04:01<Celestar>how's it dihedral ?
04:01<dihedral>still sick
04:01<dihedral>how are you Celestar
04:02<Celestar>not bad.
04:02<Celestar>my XP installation is progressing :P
04:03<Celestar>two things still missing: bluetooth and activation
04:04<dihedral>i had some fun bashing a forum user yesterday evening :-P
04:05<Celestar>XP has been detecting new hardware devices for the past 20 minutes
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04:05*Celestar looks at his notebook "I wonder where all that hardware actually IS"
04:08<dihedral>talking of IS ... the project stalled
04:08<dihedral>Infrastructure Sharing?
04:08<dihedral>DaleStan is great: "Put a sock in it until you know the difference."
04:09<Celestar>some games are funny too. "Game requirement not met: Recommended Video Card: ATI Radeon 9200 or better. Found: ATI Radeon 3450"
04:09<Celestar>possibly just doing a numerical comparison between model numbers is NOT helpful
04:09<dihedral>awesome :-)
04:10<Celestar>and Securom (some anti-piracy idiocy) fails to detect a (valid) CD when the driver is in silent/powersave mode.
04:10<@petern>damn, this 22" lcd is so nice after my 17" crt...
04:11<@petern>securom works on timings, somehow, so silent might upset it
04:11<@petern>you'd think that a million different variantions of drive would upset it too though, mind you
04:11<Celestar>yes, which causes me to download nocd cracks for all the games I legally _own_
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04:27<blathijs>Celestar: I wonder if doing that is illegal as well
04:27<blathijs>Under DMCA it probably is...
04:28<dihedral>in germany you are allowed to use cd cracks as long as you own the original cd
04:28<dihedral>so Celestar is actually quite fine there :-P
04:28<dihedral>list admin
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04:30<planetmaker>good morning
04:33<planetmaker>dihedral: actually I'm not quite sure about that anymore... you must not circumvent copy protections... which noCD patches might fall under...
04:34<planetmaker>But then... these kind of customer-are-all-bad-and-only-use-is-giving-us-money-for-free - attitude is bad, so...
04:35<planetmaker>and I like your reply to this mega annoying clan guy ;)
04:37<dihedral>he wont :-P
04:38<@petern>dihedral, make that for openttd ;D
04:38<dihedral>that'd be awesome
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04:39<dihedral>but i have never done one grf and now you want me to do a few thousand?
04:39<dihedral>that sounds a wee mean to me petern
04:40<@petern>i'll code it :D
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04:41<@petern>it's only "a few" sprites :o
04:41<dihedral>you promise to code it?
04:42<dihedral>so i get you the graphics and you code it!
04:43<@petern>graphics in the right size, yeah
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04:43<@petern>hmm, wait
04:43<@petern>32bpp replacements don't need coding
04:44*petern ponders
04:44<dihedral>i was gonna post something on the forums :-P
04:44<@petern>start a project!
04:44<@petern>be a project manager and get others to do the drawing ;)
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04:48<dihedral>i think i'd prefer letting the authors focuse on opengfx
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04:49<dihedral>petern, the brick land climate would be awesome to if it were ever finished
04:51<@petern>stop changing the subject ;p
04:52<planetmaker>hehe. But indeed his graphics look quite nice.
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04:52<planetmaker>Let's hope to win him back and do more beyond the w2w buildings...
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04:53<dihedral>i was not changing the topic at all - you are!
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05:02<dihedral>planetmaker, does IS have a webview of the hg repository?
05:03<planetmaker>Well. The existing hg repo does. But I cannot reccommend (or at least judge) as it's only Yoricks work which I didn't review so far.
05:03<dihedral>oh... oh yuck
05:03<dihedral>you have a pre-yorky-porky patch ?
05:03<planetmaker>and I think Ammler's server is down right now... so not accessible atm
05:04<planetmaker>Aali has... but of course I do have most versions of the patch. But at home
05:04<planetmaker>if you're interested I'll pm it to you tonight.
05:04*dihedral calles out to Aali
05:04<dihedral>well... kinda curious
05:05<@Rubidium>isn't Aali the guy who got overrun by Yorick changing things faster than he did?
05:05<planetmaker>dihedral: it's for the cargodest only and obviously not really fit for current trunk. That patch of him...
05:05<planetmaker>Rubidium: if you refer to IS... probably
05:05<planetmaker>as was I
05:05<dihedral> <- look at the bottom right corner :-P
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05:06<dihedral>i recall rortom working with yorky on some stuff - never seen rortom again
05:06<planetmaker>yeah... me, too.
05:07<dihedral>i really dislike that kid with a passion
05:07<planetmaker>He had a patch which had some modifications to the station GUI which could go in a good direction IMO
05:07<dihedral>planetmaker, COULD :-P
05:07<planetmaker>dihedral: yes. _could_
05:07<@Rubidium>I really ignore that kid with a passion ;)
05:08<planetmaker>the current implementation or realization isn't optimal, I think.
05:08<dihedral>Rubidium, but it is fun to bash him whenever he sais stupid stuff
05:08<dihedral>which is like _always_
05:08<planetmaker>I have the feeling he got better... but he hasn't been around lately much.
05:09<planetmaker>but better, starting from worst, isn't good :D
05:09<dihedral>planetmaker, he has gotten better or his coding has gotten better?
05:09<planetmaker>he got less annoying
05:09<planetmaker>well. yes.
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05:09<dihedral>petern, that line just cracked me up :-P
05:09<planetmaker>But probably it's deception: not being around stops him from annoying :D
05:10<dihedral>and then when he does show up, he seems to have the feeling of needing to catch up
05:10<planetmaker>well. Which is fair enough. But a good catchup is mostly done in the forums and possibly via logs... so silently :)
05:11<planetmaker>not to forget the commit logs :)
05:11<dihedral>i meant catching up with his annoyingness
05:11<planetmaker>lool :P
05:12*petern grumbles at RV acceleration
05:12<@petern>seems i need to put in magic numbers to make it behave decently :/
05:13<@Rubidium>not a /2 ?
05:13*dihedral gives petern some magic for the numbers
05:15<planetmaker>hm... :S
05:15<@petern>/10 actually
05:15*planetmaker hates magic numbers
05:16<planetmaker>it's like in a mathematical proof finding the line "here occurs a miracle"... :P
05:16<@petern>it's got other 'magic' numbers but they're documented conversion factors
05:17<planetmaker>if they're documented, they're not magic; especially, if they're conversion factors :)
05:17<@petern>i.e. te = power / speed, but we have units of 10 hp and mph * 3.2
05:17<@Rubidium>and weight differs a factor 4?
05:18<planetmaker>yeah... Personally I prefer to do everything SI internally. But I see the need to do it these "strange" ways due to var size limitations and int restrictions
05:18<@petern>so power*50000/speed (it's not 50000, but something close to that) works, is more efficient, and doesn't introduce rounding errors
05:18<@petern>it's fine as long as it's documented, which is the problem with the current train acceleration
05:19<@petern>Rubidium, doesn't make much difference, actually
05:20<@Rubidium>and is speed still in mph*3.2; I see mph*0.8 in the specs too
05:20<dihedral>very nice!
05:20<@petern>yes, we convert from the course speed to fine speed, heh
05:21<@petern>that's done in the newgrf loader
05:21<@Rubidium>then I've got no clue what could be wrong :(
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05:21<dihedral>my croissants are looking goooooood
05:21<dihedral>brekkies? here i come!
05:22<@petern>Rubidium: what's wrong is that the airdrag coefficient value is tailored to ttdpatch's world. when you apply it to physics it needs adjusting.
05:23<@petern>i do, of course, have a patch that introduces ttdpatch style acceleration for trains, although i'm not sure how to handle curves, either use the old way or keep ottd's curve handling...
05:23<@petern>dihedral, oh... please... *drool*
05:24<planetmaker>what's the difference, petern ?
05:24<@petern>difference in what?
05:24<planetmaker>between traditional curve handling and TTDP's
05:24<dihedral>petern, ALLL MINE
05:25<@petern>i don't know, i've not looked at that bit in detail. i know it's more customizable than in ottd.
05:25<@petern>i suspect it just alters the amount of speed that is reduced when reaching a curve
05:25<@petern>i'd need to view it to check :)
05:26<dihedral>+ nutella
05:26<planetmaker>oh right. But then there's no real need in my eyes be able to adjust *every* single parameter. Or rather select between zillions of models.
05:26<planetmaker>Maybe it's a solution to make the single conversion factors an entry in the ini file and have them loaded... maybe similar to newgrf presets :)
05:27<planetmaker>IF you want it fully customizable and have the different models present
05:27<@petern>only one at a time, so...
05:29<@Rubidium>yeah... I want to define what the air pressure is at different heights ;)
05:30<@petern>openbve has that, as well as temperature
05:30<planetmaker>And whether we have a high air pressure and sunny times or a low pressure hurricane approaching...
05:30<@petern>on the other hand, that is *supposed* to be a realistic train simulator
05:30<dihedral>Rubidium, on a per-height-level bases?
05:30<planetmaker>not to speak of wind direction
05:30<dihedral>+ include 'more height levels' :-D
05:31<dihedral>pressure at level 99
05:31<@petern>we have something like 120 levels
05:31<planetmaker>where wind direction would make sense for planes. Travel times highly depend upon it... if we dare to mention the "r"-word :D
05:31<dihedral>petern, we do?
05:32<@petern>planetmaker, we could make it like cycling in real life -- the wind is always working against you...
05:33<planetmaker>hehe. Very true indeed!
05:33<@petern>dihedral, yeah, you don't see trains going up 8 pixels at a time
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05:48<dihedral>now some css
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05:56*dihedral is borred
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06:06*Sacro is sat in a lecture
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06:18<Carlos31>alguien en español
06:19<dihedral>may i bring up the discussion of a centralised auth system again? :-P
06:19<Sacro>dihedral: no
06:19<Sacro>this channel is a lovely centralised refusal system
06:19<@petern>Sacro's not mature enough to answer that.
06:20*Sacro sits and sulks
06:20<@petern>I am still confused by your comment the other day...
06:20<dihedral>petern, hehe
06:20<Sacro>which comment?
06:21<@petern>11:24 < Sacro> since when was petern an op?
06:21<@petern>11:24 < Sacro> he's nowhere near mature enough
06:21<dihedral>wow Sacro you must have a brain like a sive
06:21<Sacro>dihedral: sieve
06:22<@petern>That was two lines from the end of irssi's history...
06:22<dihedral>well rescued petern
06:22<Sacro>i sleep and forget things
06:23<@petern>Like that I've had chanop for over 3 years?
06:25<Sacro>not sure why that slipped my mind
06:25<dihedral>because you mind is a sieve
06:25<@petern>Oh god...
06:26<@petern>A colleague sent an email with a question... in the subject... in uppercase...
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06:26<Sacro>petern: heh, well what should he put in the topic?
06:27<@petern>Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: usually
06:28<@petern>I love those 100KB+ emails...
06:28<Sacro>someone e-mailed everyone at the uni using CC: :(
06:29<Sacro>noone has hit reply all yet though
06:29<dihedral>reply all :-P
06:30<@petern>That's a useful report from the BBC there...
06:30<@petern>Wear some shoes with grip you idiots...
06:33<dihedral>2 inches of snow and the country's out
06:33<Sacro>Vector3f& Vector3f:operator =(const Vector3f &v)
06:33*Sacro is bored
06:33<dihedral>schools close, no busses drive
06:34<dihedral>trainservices stop?
06:34<dihedral>the tube in london?
06:34<@petern>It's great, it means the roads are clearer for me :D
06:35<@petern>hmm, i just broke google maps
06:35<@petern>It had two road overlays at different zoom levels...
06:41<Celestar>dihedral: you think I'm quite fine with the cracks? :P
06:42<dihedral>what cracks?
06:43<dihedral>Celestar, ^
06:43<Celestar>the no-cd cracks because of failing SecuROM
06:43<Sacro>ah yes
06:43<Sacro>securom for openttd :D
06:44<dihedral>Celestar, why not
06:44<Celestar>awesome. now, with all drivers installed and working, I have 5 Ethernet connections on my XP :P
06:44<Celestar>along with 5 symbols in the status bar :P
06:45<Sacro>Celestar: connect them to each otehr!
06:45<Celestar>well 5 Network connections actually. 1) Ethernet, 2) WLAN, 3) IEEE1394, 4) bluetooth, 5) WWAN
06:46<@petern>fucking router/webcam/somethign :o
06:46<dihedral>that's a nice combination
06:47<Celestar>plus the total mess that UPNP creates :P
06:47<@petern>UPNP... Why yes, I do like to give authorised access to my router, honest!
06:48<Celestar>I have a 300MBPs AP and network card. I have a distance of approxmately 5 cm between the router and the laptop. my current speed is 65MBits
06:48<@petern>Have you tried using wires?
06:50<Celestar>petern: It's especially grate that all these 300MBps access points have a 100MBPs wired connection :S
06:52<dihedral>that'd be something for SmatZ petern
06:54<tosse>Celestar: it doesnt really matter, you can't really reach over 100Mbps anyway :)
06:55<Sacro>does come up in russian for anyone else?
06:55<dihedral>the output is the same in any language
06:55<dihedral>all gibberish
07:00<dihedral>so... central auth system.....
07:01<Sacro>we'll call him Brian
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07:04<@Rubidium>dihedral: where's the trust?
07:04<dihedral>well, that'd be the thing to find out :-P
07:04<dihedral>in the openttd server authing :-P
07:04<dihedral>i would trust that :-D
07:05<@petern>you'd need a ticketing system
07:05<dihedral>why is that?
07:05<@petern>authentication tickets
07:06<dihedral>"please hold while we connect you to your personal authorisation member of staff"
07:06<@Rubidium>what do you want to achieve with 'central authentication'?
07:06<dihedral>trust :-D
07:07<@petern>game server gets a ticket from auth server, then passes ticket to client, client authenticates with auth server to validate ticket, server veries with auth server
07:07<@petern>OR SOMETHING
07:09<@Rubidium>trust isn't what you want to achieve and if you want trust then a central authentication system is not what you need (as you need to trust that and everybody could get an account there, trustworthy and untrustworthy entities)
07:09<@Rubidium>so there is no trust in the authentication system
07:10<dihedral>i mean trust in knowing the person is who he claims to be
07:10<@Rubidium>well, not in case of OpenTTD as there's no root trust authority that only adds trustworthy things
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07:11<@Rubidium>e.g. there is someone with the username 'dihedral' in the content system and one in this IRC channel. How can I be sure both are the same entity?
07:12<dihedral> :-D
07:13<@Rubidium>so how do I know someone called 'dihedral' in the 'central auth system' is the same as the one in this IRC channel?
07:13<dihedral>that would be cross-system
07:13<dihedral>you have no influence on irc, so that would be a silly link
07:14<dihedral>2 clients on different games
07:14<@petern>run a custom irc server that requires central authentication :D
07:16<@Rubidium>even then, one can't force people to use central authentication
07:17<dihedral>why not?
07:17<dihedral>it could be defined by the server
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07:20<planetmaker> <--- wow. Thick and ignorant.
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>i think we need a GUI setting for chosing the graphics pack
07:25<planetmaker>dihedral: but what would you win by having a centrai authentication system? I guess the chances that someone malicious logs into any server as dihedral or planetmaker are quite remote
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07:27<dihedral>not allowing them _on_ the server if they are not identified? + a better banning system?
07:27<dihedral>ip really sucks :-P
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07:29<planetmaker>:) but then they'll just register as a different name... which basically forces openttd to maintain a database of dead nicks
07:30<planetmaker>dihedral: I'd rather see that as a plug-in to ap :)
07:30<dihedral>i still like the thought of donating money to the project to get an 'identidy' :-P
07:31<dihedral>planetmaker, nope
07:31<planetmaker>_That_ would be a good idea IMO as it allows every site to have their own registered and trusted players.
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07:32<dihedral>why then not have a global one?
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07:34<planetmaker>why? :) I don't want to need to register to play a game...
07:34<dihedral>you would not have to
07:34<dihedral>only to play on those servers that require it
07:34<dihedral>which will never be all of them :-P
07:36<planetmaker>but what's wrong with an AP module for authentication?
07:36<dihedral>people are already connected before ap knows about them
07:37<planetmaker>allow only registered IRC users
07:37<planetmaker>kick the others
07:38<dihedral>still, the client already joined the game before ap knows about it
07:38<planetmaker>force them join spectator. Move them, if they're authenticated :D
07:38<planetmaker>nice and complicated :D
07:39<dihedral>they join _before_ ap knows about them
07:39<dihedral>means, game already been paused, unpaused, etc.
07:39<planetmaker>I understood that.
07:39<dihedral>if that is a few slow clients its an annoying waste of time
07:39<dihedral>(forcing them to join as spectator is already on my mind :-P)
07:42<planetmaker>:) I think I might have seen such patch from you :P
07:42<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you have a point certainly with a ingame switch :)
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07:43<dihedral>planetmaker, the patch just needs to be written somewhat nicer than the last one
07:45<planetmaker>dihedral: weren't you looking for a task for yourself?
07:45<planetmaker>Or got another one: start with wwottdgd/3 :)
07:46<dihedral>the spectate model is nicer :-P
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07:46<planetmaker>"spectate model"? You mean the task "writing join as spectator", or... watching others do wwottdgd/3?
07:47<dihedral>no sorry
07:47<dihedral>not model - wrong word
07:47<dihedral>the setting to force players join a game as spectators
07:47<dihedral>that one
07:48*dihedral is considering playing gothic 1 again
07:51<planetmaker> <-- join that game :P
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08:18*dihedral whistles
08:18<@Rubidium>my ears!
08:21*SpComb hungry
08:22*Sacro briton
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08:26<Sacro>fern cerl?
08:26*Sacro has is on mute
08:29<@petern>I wonder how Transport Empire is getting on.
08:30<dihedral>or "Transporter" :-P
08:35<Sacro>i still have a copy of Transporter
08:35<Sacro>and TTT
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08:37<dihedral>TTT = terrible terry tate
08:38<Sacro>trains and trucks tycoon
08:38<dihedral>that is cute
08:38<@petern>Rollercoaster Tycoon?
08:39<dihedral>trains trams trucks busses ships and planes tycoon :-D
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>i could never figure out how to properly build bridges in that game
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>did they actually make final judgement meanwhile on that game?
08:43<Eddi|zuHause> <- hmm, looks like they did
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09:19<Sacro>auf englisch?
09:19<@petern>"Dead or faulty pixels occur when transistors responsible for the ‘switch on/off’ mechanism in an LCD fail to operate."
09:19<@petern>dead pixel policy
09:19<@petern>imagine if CPUs could have dead transistors...
09:20<smeding>they can, but those are rejected after inspection
09:20<smeding>silicon is recast to ingots, i guess
09:20<smeding>actually i think some also might be sold as downgraded versions for some chips
09:21<@petern>by "could have" i meant "could be sold with"
09:21<smeding>ah yeah :p
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09:32<Sacro>smeding: yes, 3 core AMD processors are rejected 4
09:32<Sacro>same with 2s i think as well
09:32<Sacro>and the PS3
09:34<@petern> :D
09:35<SmatZ>mmm bacon
09:35<|Japa|>too spread out?
09:36<@Belugas>bib bib
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10:40<lanaiya>hi, is it normal that plains crash all the time even if the desasters option is turned off?
10:40<Yexo>yes, but it's much worse if you send big planes to small airports
10:41<lanaiya>hmm ok thx
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10:42<lanaiya>and which kind of desasters are turned off with that option exactly :)
10:42<dihedral>desasters, eg. ufo's
10:43<Yexo>lanaiya: you were talking about crashing planes, right? Not only breaking down?
10:43<Yexo>there is a seperate option to turn breakdowns off
10:43<lanaiya>no i mean crashing on landing
10:43<Yexo>ok, that can't be disabled
10:43<lanaiya>with xxx deaths
10:43<lanaiya>ah ok
10:45<dihedral>lanaiya, dont fill you planes so full, then you wont have as many casulties :-P
10:45<lanaiya>well well time is money :P
10:45<lanaiya>and the gas does not get cheaper either
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10:53<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: tried the advance signals patch already?
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>no, i'm kinda busy
10:54<dihedral>michi_cc, what does it do?
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>it adds advance (yellow) signals
10:54<+michi_cc>implements advance singnals
10:55<dihedral>and they are...?
10:55<dihedral>yes - i picked up on that one
10:56*dihedral reads
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10:58<dihedral>nice :-)
10:58<@petern>yeah, what tekky wrote there is what we need
10:58<TrueBrain>Belugas: IT IS SNOWING HERE!!!
10:58<TrueBrain>(hehehehehe, sorry :p)
10:59<@petern>yellow signals are just an extra signal state of standard signals
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of which, where is goodger? he always wanted snow
10:59<@petern>i pissed him off yesterday :D
11:00<TrueBrain>again? :p
11:00<TrueBrain>or still?
11:00*Belugas is very hapy for TrueBrain :)
11:01<+michi_cc>petern: my patch has combo signals that act a bit like this (just not on braking distance but on the state of the next signal). it has stand-alone advance signals as well, can be used for priority thingies
11:01*TrueBrain hugs Belugas :)
11:01<TrueBrain>Belugas: which reminds me .. in 17 days I am going to the REAL snow :) Boarding for 7 whole days ... oh jolly days :)
11:02<TrueBrain>well .. glad I had that shared ;) Bye all :)
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11:04<dihedral>michi_cc, placing signals is gonna be getting a real pain up the fuzzy
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11:07<+michi_cc>dihedral: why? the combo signals have most of the advantages of the stand-alone signal and are a normal pbs signal as well
11:08<@petern>why does it need a new type then? heh
11:08<+michi_cc>they are tri-state signals: red as before, yellow if the path is free but the next signal red, green if a path over two signals could be made
11:09<+michi_cc>because there's surely somebody that doesn't like it :-p
11:09<@petern>they use block signals anyway ;)
11:09<@Belugas>what a shame :(
11:09<@Belugas>what a scotland's shame :)
11:09*Belugas hinds
11:09<+michi_cc>the stand-alone advance signal can be used for priorities, every signal encountered will try to reserve on further signal block
11:10*petern digs out winamp
11:10<@petern>track 8
11:10<@petern>8 minutes
11:10<@petern>maybe i should start from 1...
11:11<@Belugas>you could :)
11:11<@Belugas>warm emotions
11:11<@Belugas>god I LOVE that record!
11:12<@petern>i haven't watched the dvd yet
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>in a "realistic" network, most signals are combo
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11:18*planetmaker hugs michi_cc for another nice signaling feature :)
11:18<planetmaker>I guess I'll give the patches a try tonight :)
11:21<@Belugas>dvd is a bit boring
11:21<@Belugas>the video of black cat is not bad, but the two other version are ...
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11:28<@Belugas>lies..there is a video about the band itself, like on the road and stuff
11:28<@Belugas>it was actually very intersting
11:28<@Belugas>only major problem for me was the accent
11:28<dihedral>planetmaker, did you see Mega's reply? :P
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11:32<@petern>Belugas, well, that's a problem for anyone...
11:32<@Belugas>even you?
11:34<@petern>I assume... I didn't watch it.
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11:39<@Belugas>it's long, and there is not much action scenes :)
11:40<@Belugas>neither live actions too, that's a minus
11:40<dihedral>no more comments to the undo knob thread :-(
11:40<lanaiya>@ coders(if on's present): woundnt it be a good idea to adjust the zoom lvl for the map to support an overview of even the large maps?
11:41<Roujin>laniya, do you mean the mini map?
11:42<Roujin>there were already tries to do that long time ago, but appearently none of those patches matured enough to be included into the game...
11:43<@Belugas>it's NTO A KNOB!
11:43<@Belugas>it's a button :)
11:43<Roujin>it's NOT NTO!
11:43<lanaiya>oh im sorry to hear that. but it would be a nice feature though :/
11:44<dihedral>Belugas, i could start a thread, "ctrl+z" - i searched the forums, nothing came up :-D
11:45<Roujin>e.g. here two patches that both tried to make zoomable smallmaps:
11:46<Roujin>(you see the first one is ancient alone by its low task number ;))
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11:50<@Rubidium>and broken
11:51<@petern>one day we'll have to write all our own patches
11:51<@petern>oh wait
11:51<@Belugas>we do :)
11:51<@Belugas>some do it not very fast nor frequently,
11:52<@Belugas>some do not even commit them once completed
11:52<@Belugas>some do not test not compile them before commiting (that would be me...)
11:55<Roujin>speaking about patches.. I wonder if SmatZ is doing anything with my GUIList filtering patch
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11:58<@Rubidium>ofcourse he's doing something
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11:58<@Rubidium>including testing, compilig, reviewing and ignoring
11:59<Elukka>how can a torrent file be 100 kb...
11:59<Roujin_>I hope more of the previous and less of the latter :D
11:59<Elukka>someone found a 86400x43200 heightmap of the world :D
12:00<Elukka>and nasa has it as a torrent... i'm sure we all know how well torrents work with things only very few people download
12:00<dihedral>are you at it again?
12:01<Elukka>not really
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12:09<OwenS>Elukka: They work well if they have a good seeder :p
12:10<Elukka>sure, but something like a nasa world heightmap is bound not to have many seeds :P
12:10<OwenS>NASA should be seeding it then :P
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12:22<dihedral>and NASA is a fat-ass seed
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12:24<Elukka>apparently the reason its not a direct download is not a lack of resources, but because downloads got interrupted by maintenance, so they could well seed it...
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12:29<dihedral>wget -c
12:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15323 /trunk/bin/ (ai/regression/ scripts/): -Fix: regression backed up game_start.scr but didn't/couldn't restore it.
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12:47<Eddi|zuHause><Elukka> how can a torrent file be 100 kb... <- why would a torrent file like this be extraordinary?
12:47<Elukka>i dont think i was really thinking
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>biggest torrent file i spontaneously found is 500kb
12:49<FauxFaux>If it's that big then you should probably rar it then torrent the rar. *stabs people in the face*
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>FauxFaux: multi-part rar, please.
12:50<TinoDidriksen>Oh gods I hate those...
12:50<FauxFaux>With recovery information, just in case you're using one of those torrent clients that doesn't bother hashing stuff.
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12:55<Eddi|zuHause>for the record, the 500kb file compresses to 29%
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12:57<TinoDidriksen>Doesn't later versions of the .torrent format allow for compression, actually? I recall reading something about that. Or could be a vendor trick.
12:59<Zahl>hey i have a question about pbs
12:59<Zahl>there are one-way and two-way pbs signals
12:59<TinoDidriksen>In either case, rar is the wrong format to use. For anything.
12:59<Zahl>but why doesn't the two-way pbs signal look like a normal two-way signal
12:59<Zahl>with lights in both directions?
12:59<Zahl>it seems to work just like that
13:00<Zahl>so what did i miss? =)
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>Zahl: because it is a signal only in one way
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>it just allows passing (but not stopping) in the other way
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>which would be stupid, because it only causes deadlocks
13:01<Zahl>hmmm now that you say that
13:01<Zahl>its plausible
13:01<Zahl>ok :-)
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13:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15324 /trunk/ (10 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: unify the class used for comparing of strings for std::map
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13:14<@Belugas>olleh 10floW
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13:15<Wolf01>I can easily beat you on writing that way
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13:17<SmatZ>10ɟ1oʍ o11ǝɥ
13:17<el_en>night Wolf01
13:17<Wolf01>lol, no that one is not in my knowledge
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13:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15325 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt korean.txt unfinished/hebrew.txt):
13:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-03 18:29:45
13:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by tucalipe (1)
13:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 4 changed by planetmaker (3), hellow (1)
13:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hebrew - 615 fixed, 54 changed by 19izhar73 (669)
13:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 6 changed by darkttd (6)
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13:32<dihedral>hebrew? what a work horse!
13:32<dihedral>615 things fixed
13:33<dihedral>planetmaker, keep up dog :-D
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13:39<@Belugas>ho... look... here come's Local Authority!
13:41<@petern>who what?
13:41*Prof_Frink stabs Belugas with an apostrophe
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13:44<@petern>I've not used this laptop for so long, it still has the engine pool in my working copy.
13:45<@petern>struct stationview_d { uint32 cargo; };
13:45<@petern>Okay, that's an old and obsolete working copy too...
13:45<@petern>12407. Ah.
13:45<frosch123>hehe, when I boot win, I can play ottd or so
13:46<Wolf01>I still have some r4xxx checkouts
13:46<Wolf01>very old patches never finished
13:46<Wolf01>like all my other patches
13:47<@petern>The third working copy has the YAPP patch applied...
13:49<@petern>Hmm, station animation patches
13:49<Wolf01>and any sloped stations with working graphics?
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13:51<Wolf01>adding newstation support to road stations was not so easy as I thought initially
13:52<frosch123>do you have to do more than increasing a constant in sprites.h ?
13:52-!-Roujin__ [] has joined #openttd
13:53<frosch123>or do you want more than adding the sloped dtrs to action5 ?
13:53<patchie>how do i make my trains go one-way?...
13:53<patchie>so trains cant go the other direction
13:53<Wolf01>I don't know anything of the graphics drawing, I only know the transparency code and a little of guis
13:53<Wolf01>use signals
13:53<patchie>what kind of signals?
13:53<frosch123>patchie: place a signal, and click two or three times on the tile
13:53<Wolf01>one way ones
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14:00<frosch123>patchie, petern: one of you has to change his colour or the shape of the nick
14:03<Prof_Frink>frosch123: Why? They're different colours and different lengths
14:04<frosch123>if i shall look so close to see that, then I can as well read it
14:04<frosch123>and 'reading', well, who does that?
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>i agree with frosch123
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14:12<Mek>hmm... are there any known issues with certain gcc-versions/architectures and optimizations? openttd is crashing in weird ways when I compile with -O2, but with -O0 it works just fine (this is on an ARM device)
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14:18<@petern>Who's smashing the servers up? :o
14:18<frosch123>the whole power is needed for compiling :p
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14:21<dihedral>petern, can we not go round some old servers, and crash them?
14:21<dihedral>it'll make them vanish from the list and make sure only the non-deserted ones come back :-D
14:21<NukeBuster> down?
14:22<frosch123>NukeBuster: can be seen by dorpsgek's absence
14:22<NukeBuster>ah, thank you :)
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14:25<Mek> <-- yay, finally got openttd to work on maemo
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14:26<Mek>even without compiler optimizations, it still runs quite smooth
14:28<@petern>Shame it's an old version...
14:29<Mek>hmm? isn't 0.6.3 the most recent version?
14:30<Elukka>the most recent stable
14:30<Elukka>since then there have been a huge number of nightlies
14:30-!-mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
14:31<el_en>@seen DorpsGek
14:31<@DorpsGek>el_en: I have not seen DorpsGek.
14:32<Mek>okay, so it is the most recent release; I don't think it makes much sense to package nightly snapshots if there aren't even packages of a released version yet
14:42<dihedral>Mek, now get the working with the nightlies and maintain it :-P
14:42<Mek>dihedral: first I want to get it working properly/somewhat integrated with maemo
14:42<Mek>right now it doesn't even show up in the list of running apps
14:42<dihedral>what is that system anyway?
14:43<dihedral>never heard of it
14:43-!-mode/#openttd [+v Osai] by DorpsGek
14:43<Mek>it is the linux variant running on the nokia internet tablets (n800/n810)
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15:07<@petern>Sad :(
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15:08<frosch123>next time the will notice, that he should have piped it into a file
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15:24<@Belugas> (thanks to Wolf01) - excluded Dalestan, of course :)
15:25<Wolf01> maybe in future I should try this one
15:26<@Rubidium>oh Bjarni...
15:26<@Rubidium>Wolf01, meet glm2006ITALY... he speaks Italian too ;)
15:27<Wolf01>really? I don't :(
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15:27<@Rubidium>then don't leach of an Italian ISP ;)
15:29<Wolf01>I know him, he's an user of my forum ;)
15:30<Wolf01>or at least, he registered to my forum, where I'm the only one which talks
15:30<@Belugas>well... if yu claim you don't speak italian and you have users from Italy in your forum... i mean... is it surprising???
15:31<@Belugas>=yu + you
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15:31<@Belugas>my manners...
15:31<Wolf01>I use google translator for both itaGlian and engRish
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15:33<Mortal>lol, "itaglian", haven't heard that before
15:34<welshdragon>don't shout that out too loud, or Sacro will be after you :P
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15:36<welshdragon>Sacro: read Wolf01's last line :p
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15:38<`Ka>hi guys I have a question, been looking on forums and googling but havn't found any answers, good to ask?
15:38<Yexo>just ask what you want to know
15:38<Wolf01>what's the meaning of life?
15:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15326 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Old-ai-ishm when refitting vehicles.
15:40<`Ka>ok so basically i have a scenario, towns, etc all good
15:40<`Ka>and a rail link
15:40<`Ka>but it doesnt seem to matter wht i do, my towns always decrease in population
15:40<`Ka>and so once where rail stations and bus stations were in the middle of a residential district, they are no in amongst a network of abandoned roads
15:41<Yexo>is the tile under the town name still a road tile?
15:41<glm2006ITALY>yes speak italian
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15:41<glm2006ITALY>I'm italy boy!!! :D
15:41<Wolf01>hi glm2006ITALY
15:42<glm2006ITALY>Wolf01... ma non hai un forum in italia?
15:42<Yexo>`Ka: can you upload your savegame somewhere?
15:42<glm2006ITALY>Wolf you have a italy forum?
15:42<Wolf01>mmm, forse si :D
15:42<glm2006ITALY>a ecco
15:42<glm2006ITALY>senti io alla fine ci ho rinunciato
15:42<glm2006ITALY>non riuscivo più ad accedete
15:42<glm2006ITALY>ops accedere
15:42<glm2006ITALY>non mi inviava più
15:43<glm2006ITALY>i dati di accesso.. ed ho perso il link
15:43<`Ka>yexo i can put it on yousendit?
15:43<Yexo>I don't really care where you put it
15:44<welshdragon>glm2006ITALY: english please?
15:44<Yexo>but yousendit seems to require an email adres, right?
15:44<Yexo>just open a topic on with your savegame attached
15:44<Yexo>or send me a pm there
15:44<`Ka>I tell you what, I have dinner in the oven and a shower. I won't pester you with your time right now, i shall come back in an hour or so and if you are still here Id appreciate any input you have immensley, but I shan't upload now as I will have to go in 5minutes anyway
15:45<`Ka>i guess if its on the forum actally you could give me a reply to the thread if im not here, ill do that :d
15:45<glm2006ITALY>ok... but i'dont speak very good english :(
15:46<SmatZ>almost nobody here speaks italian
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15:47<glm2006ITALY>ok i use automatic traslate ;)
15:47<glm2006ITALY>I wanted to ask:
15:48<glm2006ITALY>What do I need to rebuild the streets of towns / cities?
15:48<glm2006ITALY>please speak very simple english
15:49<SmatZ>what do you mean by "rebuild"?
15:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Yexo * r15327 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp ai_instance.hpp): -Fix (r15027): AIs could access the map and other data in their constructor and Load() function while the savegame was not completely loaded.
15:49<frosch123>"Fund local road reconstruction" is available from the town window
15:49<glm2006ITALY>error automatic teraslate
15:49<welshdragon>click on the town name
15:49<SmatZ>yeah, but "Fund local road reconstruction" doesn't do anything useful :-p
15:50<SmatZ>except from blocking all roadvehs in that town...
15:50<welshdragon>choose 'fund local road....'
15:50<glm2006ITALY>but utility the operation?
15:50<welshdragon>glm2006ITALY: you want new roads?
15:50<welshdragon>or rebuild old?
15:51<glm2006ITALY>original roads the city and my roads
15:51<glm2006ITALY>what serves to reconstruct?
15:52<welshdragon>non preoccupatevi
15:52<welshdragon>google ftw
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15:52<welshdragon>glm2006ITALY: le strade non hanno bisogno di essere costruito di nuovo
15:53<planetmaker>English only :P
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15:53<glm2006ITALY>altro italiano?
15:54<glm2006ITALY>che bello!
15:54<welshdragon>glm2006ITALY: no
15:54<welshdragon>Sto utilizzando Google
15:54<glm2006ITALY>beh almeno conosci la mia lingua ;)
15:54<el_en>yeah welshdragon, why aren't you italian?
15:54<glm2006ITALY>google traslate?
15:54-!-glm2006ITALY [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
15:55<welshdragon>he left!
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15:55<welshdragon>el_en: i might learn italian
15:55<glm2006ITALY>problem adsl :(
15:55<welshdragon>it's similar to french and spanish
15:56<frosch123>learn latin :p
15:56<glm2006ITALY>yes... but difference
15:57<welshdragon>feck no
15:57<glm2006ITALY>differences exist
15:57<welshdragon>now, how to /invite in colloquy
15:57<glm2006ITALY>pv colloquy?
15:58<welshdragon>yes, i want to talk in italian to you
15:59<welshdragon>heh, that solved the problem
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16:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Yexo * r15328 /trunk/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: -Fix (r15327): Load(data, version) was called instead of Load(version, data).
16:06*welshdragon is helpful
16:06<welshdragon>and resourceful
16:07<Wolf01>hey you, does the fund road reconstruction has any other effect than block competitors' vehicles?
16:07<welshdragon>erm, no
16:08<welshdragon>it's just a great way to annoy people
16:09<welshdragon>hmm, before i go and suggest this.... can bridges be built over buildings?
16:09<welshdragon>(similar to locomotion)
16:10<Wolf01>yes, just disable some checks like I do when I need to build something where I can't
16:10<welshdragon>heh, ok
16:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15329 /3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp: [Squirrel] -Fix: properly clear the stack on returning so that AI*Modes actually have a chance of working in functions without going through hoops.
16:11<Roujin__>Wolf01, welshdragon: if the advanced option "remove absurd roadbits during road construction" is activated, yes it has.
16:11<`Ka>i sent pm yexi
16:13<el_en>una macchina tutti le stazione gelato.
16:14<el_en>no. i have studied it very very little very very long time ago.
16:14<Wolf01>you wrote "one machine all station iced"
16:15<glm2006ITALY>station ice cream?
16:15<el_en>but i bet it sounded very convincing to those who do not know italian.
16:15<kd5pbo>el_en: Nope
16:16<glm2006ITALY>ah ah ah
16:17<glm2006ITALY>but you english?
16:17<el_en>sono finlandese
16:17<glm2006ITALY>europ :)
16:18<glm2006ITALY>good bye
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16:45<planetmaker>michi_cc, what actually is the use of the path combo signals in the patch you posted last night?
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16:50<+michi_cc>planetmaker: realism (if you want that), making a priority line, fun (or so if you combine it with advance_slowdown_hack.diff) because trains then slow down on yellow signals and can overrun red ones (but it is a hack)
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16:51<planetmaker>ok... so without that additional patch they don't really serve a purpose?
16:52<planetmaker>Because running it on a circle line it basically is the same as no signal...
16:53<+michi_cc>they look pretty. and you can give trains on a line priority over joining trains for example (also possible with the stand-alone signal of course, but two signals to place)
16:53<planetmaker>while the exits... kinda make trains reserve two signal distances as it seems to me
16:53<planetmaker>uhm... I tried to fabricate exactly that priority...
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16:54<planetmaker>But to trains following on that line, they're red, thus stop and cannot follow the previous train anymore.
16:55<+michi_cc>it's not an absolute priority, trains from a sideline can still join just after a train on the mainline went past, but it the mainline train can reserve the junction ahead of time
16:56<planetmaker>michi_cc: yes. I see that. But a 2nd train on the ML cannot follow the first without the same distance as the length of the priority
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16:56<planetmaker>e.g. it will wait at the start of the priority until the 1st train is past the exit signal
16:57<planetmaker>But I have the feeling that I just don' t get there something :)
16:59<planetmaker>,%201978-05-20.png <-- assuming a situation like that
17:00<planetmaker>upper line shall continue unharmed, lower line shall enter, if possible without stopping the upper
17:00<planetmaker>using the combo signals a train reserves straigt to the exit... and the subsequent train stops at the entry
17:01<dihedral>good night
17:01<planetmaker>night dihedral
17:01<SmatZ>good night dihedral
17:01<Yexo>night dihedral
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17:07<+michi_cc>what's the real problem in your screenshot? the entering train on the upper line can pass the next signal as soon as the train in front as passed the signal
17:07<+michi_cc>it doesn't work properly of course if you use the speed hack, but that really is just a hack
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17:13<+michi_cc>something simple like this'Donnell%20&%20Co.,%2021st%20May%201944.png
17:14<+michi_cc>not a very good screenshot though, it is a bit forced :)
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17:16<planetmaker>michi_cc: I haven't installed the speed hack
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17:16<planetmaker>and the "problem" I have is, that I fail to actually make a prio
17:16<planetmaker>a prio which differs from a signal gap on the main line
17:17<@petern>what you need is a signal controller...
17:18<SmatZ>whole m2 can be available for track with signals ;)
17:19<@petern>can be?
17:19-!-Roujin__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:19<SmatZ>12 bits of m2 are used, but they can be moved to m6 and m7
17:20<@petern>oh, just shuffling...
17:21<@petern>SignalPool? :o
17:21<@petern>Any amount of signal states...
17:21<@petern>Performance through the floor...
17:21<planetmaker>michi_cc: my naive understanding of a pbs combo signal was that it allows reservation up to an exit signal - or as long as it can get a reservation using combos only
17:22<planetmaker>well. not understanding. But rather expectation before I tested it :)
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17:22<@petern>I chose horses
17:23<fjb>For eating?
17:23<planetmaker>kinda a "reserve as far as you can or until you hit an exit" signal :)
17:23<planetmaker>in anycase the signals look very nice :)
17:24<@petern>what would that achieve?
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17:28<@petern>WE'RE NO HERE
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17:29<planetmaker>petern: what was your question directed at?
17:30<planetmaker>if it referred to the signal type I described: priority for the line which they are built upon
17:31<SmatZ>petern: not all signals would need to be in the pool... in fact, only very few
17:33<@petern>planetmaker, what is an "exit" signal then?
17:33<+michi_cc>planetmaker: that would require there to be an exit signal
17:33<planetmaker>petern: one of the new signals michi introduced
17:33<planetmaker>or actually any other :)
17:33<planetmaker>depends upon implementation. :)
17:34<+michi_cc>the main difference to a signal gap is that with a combo signal trains don't need to have a gap when the junction is occupied
17:35<+michi_cc>placing stand-alone advance signals will cause the path to get to one further signal for each advance signal
17:35<planetmaker>ok. That's what I figured with the exit signals
17:36<planetmaker>each combo continues reservation to next signal
17:37<planetmaker>but I don't understand still this :
17:37<planetmaker>[23:34] <michi_cc> the main difference to a signal gap is that with a combo signal trains don't need to have a gap when the junction is occupied
17:37<+michi_cc>like this I mean'Donnell%20&%20Co.,%2028th%20Apr%201944.png
17:37<planetmaker>hm... that's interesting :)
17:38*planetmaker goes back to testing things
17:39<+michi_cc>junction blocked, but trains on the main line can still queue as far as possible
17:40<+michi_cc>compare with the other pic ('Donnell%20&%20Co.,%2021st%20May%201944.png)
17:40<+michi_cc>with a gap in signalling, waiting trains would also have such a gap
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17:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15330 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Fix [FS#2597]: leaking of Squirrel when using circular references (by enabling the GC).
17:42<planetmaker>,%2028th%20Apr%201944.png <-- if I understand this correctly, the number of combo signals defines how many "normal" path signals are reserved ahead?
17:43<+michi_cc>that's not a combo signal
17:43<+michi_cc>that are pure advane signals, i.e. trains will never stop there
17:44<+michi_cc>(ignore the single combo further up)
17:44<+michi_cc>three advance signals = three track sections reserved
17:44<Eddi|zuHause2>no, simple advance signals increase the "lookahead" +1 signal, combo signals act as normal signals, so the lookahead is not changed (+/-0), normal signals do not extend the lookahead, so it is reduced (-1)
17:44<`Ka>any ideas on this anyone?
17:45<+michi_cc>almost, Eddi, the first combo signal does a +1
17:45<planetmaker>sorry. whenever I wrote combo I should have written advance :S
17:45-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:45<Eddi|zuHause2>well, yes ;)
17:45-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>those are corner cases
17:46<planetmaker>ok, so the small signal with yellow is advance signal, right?
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17:46<+michi_cc>but do note that this "lookahead depth" is not saved or anything, if reservation failed on passing the signal, it won't magically appear later
17:46<planetmaker>And the path signal with the yellow is the path combo signal in your terminology?
17:47-!-Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
17:47<+michi_cc>use the info tool, pm :)
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17:49<el_en>does someone know wtf is going on when powering on a disk in a hotswap thing causes one or two other disks to experience a power reset?
17:50<el_en>which, in turn, causes an unrelated RAID1 mirror unit to degrade, besides the one whose disk was powered down.
17:50<planetmaker>thank you for your patience and explanation, michi_cc.
17:52<planetmaker>Now it makes sense - and yes, I liki it! :)
17:57<planetmaker>he... I found a way to create lost reservation, michi_cc
18:01<planetmaker>the train waiting at the red signal - which is read due to its own reservation
18:01<planetmaker>way how to create that described in the image
18:01<planetmaker>got 2 go to bed now. :)
18:01<planetmaker>Have a good night all :)
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18:17<el_en>these House M.D. intro scenes are so predictable.
18:19<el_en>it's always the healthy-looking who gets sick, not the fatty or old or midget.
18:21<@petern>Not a patch on Casualty then...
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18:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r15331 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix (r15330): remove extra semicolons
18:34<@petern>ah, so, squirrel leaks... because we disabled the GC?
18:38<SmatZ>problem was with circular dependencies
18:39<SmatZ>references, that is :)
18:45<@petern>i didn't do anything in gimp :o
18:48<@Belugas>i would not blame you, sir :)
18:49<@Belugas>i am doing customer support right now
18:49<fjb>Poor Belugas.
18:49<@Belugas>while integrating the modest changes in trunk i did today at work
18:49<@Belugas>bah... i'm used to it
18:49*petern considers
18:49<kd5pbo>Belugas: What are you supporting?
18:49-!-User1 [] has joined #openttd
18:50<User1>hi @ all
18:51<User1>I've installed the OpenTTD via Windows 2k / XP / Vista (32bit) (installer)
18:51<User1>but the game won't run, some files are missing:
18:51<@Belugas>kd5pbo, currently, it's a PINPad that is unresponsive, or what it feels like
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18:52<User1>TRG1R.GRF and some other .GRF files
18:52<SpComb>User1: the origional graphics resources are not distributed with OpenTTD
18:52<User1>so should i load some patches, which are presented in the forum?
18:53<User1>or how can i get these ones?
18:53<User1>there is a hint for even - what's this?
18:54<SpComb>those are the graphics files that came with the origional TTD
18:55<User1>and do i have to buy the original one? i have it on a nearly 15 year old disk, but my laptop isn't quite cooperative to accept the disks :D
18:56<SpComb>that's the best option
18:56<User1>sorry, what's the best option?
18:56<SmatZ>buy TTD (new or used)
18:57<SpComb>copying them off the CD
18:57<@Belugas>a cd reader is not a spare resource. it's STILL quite abondant
18:58<SpComb>doesn't mean you need one on a laptop, as long as you have a desktop with a DVD drive on the network...
18:59<kd5pbo>Or find a friend and email files.
18:59<User1>didn't know that TTD is available on CD
18:59-!-OwenS [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:00<User1>and thought this OpenTTD would be a complete one with all needed files inclusive
19:00<SpComb>no, most people play with the graphics from the origional TTD, and OpenTTD obviously can't distribute those
19:01<NukeBuster>how do i keep the goto button sticky?
19:01<kd5pbo>Aren't there other graphics out there?
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>NukeBuster: press the "G" key
19:01<User1>yes, it can't, you're right
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>(note that this does not make it sticky, but easier to handle)
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>there might be a setting meanwhile, though. didn't play in a while
19:03<User1>so could someone tell me if all required files, not the original ones, patched ones, made by users for other users, are available in the forum?
19:03<SpComb>there's OpenGFX, which is apparently fairly complete now
19:04<SpComb>never looked at it personally though, I bought the Tycoon Collection pack sometime a long time ago
19:05<User1>well, I think I've got to do the same
19:08<User1>but I think I'm going to search one from Germany....cheaper delivery than from the isle :P
19:09<SpComb>a lot of the people "selling" Transport Tycoon are really just giving you an illegal download, though, so be careful
19:09<Sacro>all the ones on ebay are illegal
19:09<Sacro>they come with a "XP compatability"
19:10<User1>oh, thanks! good to know
19:10<@petern>My copy from ebay was legit
19:11<SpComb>nah, some of the ones on look completely legit
19:11<@petern>But no point buying a dodgy copy when you can get those very easily anyway
19:12<User1>dodgy? sorry, don't know that word
19:13<kd5pbo>Also, not trustable.
19:14<SpComb> <-- but e.g. that?
19:15<User1>thanks for the translation
19:19<SpComb> <-- but e.g. that's a fraud
19:21<User1>i've got found a download-area, which offers a lot of TTD-files, even playable versions:
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>that is... err... not very legal...
19:22<@petern>not legal
19:22<User1>so better not
19:22<@petern>being not legal doesn't stop most people
19:22-!-fjb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:23<el_en>OpenTTD itself is not quite legal, so... if that matters, avoid using it.
19:24<User1>I did not think, that such a quite normal looking webpage would offer a illegal version
19:24<User1>or illegal offer
19:24<SmatZ>you don't pay for it, so it's suspicious..
19:25<SmatZ>but still much better than when you pay for it and you get an illegal copy :-P
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>you don't pay for Linux either, so it is also suspicious ;)
19:25<el_en>Eddi|zuHause: should be.
19:25<Sacro>blooming germans and their capitalism
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>capitalism is dead.
19:26<User1>I thought, TT is freeware nowadays, so it could be a legal offer
19:27<Sacro>TT isn't freeware at all
19:27<User1>yes, i realised ;)
19:27<Sacro>not until the copyright owners say so
19:27<User1>or is it realized? don't know
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>life of the author plus 70 years
19:27<SmatZ> :-p
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>and as far as we can tell, the author is still alive
19:28<SmatZ>or has been alive in the last 70 years
19:28<Sacro>User1: realised
19:28<User1>thanks Sacro, learned something again ;)
19:28<el_en>the "support the developers" part is maybe exaggeration after all these years.
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19:30<Eddi|zuHause>"it's unlikely it will ever be updated unless the time and costs can be justified by potential sales" <- with the existance of TTDPatch and OpenTTD, these expectations are probably very very low.
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19:33<User1>well, I think these were my questions
19:34<User1>I'm going to look out for some legal versions, may be ebay could help me
19:34<User1>gn8 everyone
19:34<User1>and thanks for answering
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19:48<FauxFaux>RE earlier,, 1.9mb .torrent. :p
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20:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15332 /trunk/src/heightmap.cpp: -Fix (r15190): terrain generated from heightmaps always was at sea level at both southern borders
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20:10<el_en>testing € ä ö š привет
20:11<el_en>but on the other hand, SpComb's log doesn't.
20:12<el_en>there's just some crap instead of correct characters, no matter what the manually selected encoding is in the browser.
20:13<Sacro>SpComb is a crap programmer :p
20:13<+glx>if the client uses wrong encoding it can't work :
20:13<@Rubidium>playing with fancy letters again?
20:14<@Rubidium>well, characters
20:15<el_en>the bull in hull...
20:15<@Rubidium>㏘ <- could use that to not highlight a certain person ;)
20:16<el_en>...stays mainly on the plain?
20:20<el_en>SpComb: ur !logs thing doesn't obey the "UTF-8 please" charset.
20:24-!-`Ka [] has quit []
20:45<SpComb>Sacro: pfft, I wrote that millions of years ago
20:47<SpComb>it seems to do htmlentities on the raw utf8 as latin1
20:54<SpComb>hmm... this contains some interesting code
20:56*SpComb partially fixes it to the limits of what he can be bothered to with PHP
20:57<el_en>while you are at it, there's an unnecessary apostrophe in "Click the timestamp/nick to view the line in it's context"
21:00*SpComb toys around with idea of re-implementing in Python
21:01<el_en>thanks, now it looks better apostrophewise.
21:01<SpComb>still need to figure out wsgi and what's a sensible HTML template library
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 04 00:00:44 2009