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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-19

---Logopened Thu Feb 19 00:00:33 2009
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00:31<Felicitus>there seems to be no API call to get the power of an engine :(
00:43<Felicitus>good morning Forked
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01:15<SJrX>Hmmmmm I have copied the data/ and gm/ folders from my windows copy to my ~/.openttd/ file but openttd says they can't be found?
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01:29<@Rubidium>maybe the files/directories use strange capitalisation
01:30<SJrX>yeah it's possible
01:30<@Rubidium>or you don't have read access to the files (can sometimes happen when copying stuff from a non-unixy file system)
01:31<@Rubidium>Felicitus: add whatever you're missing to
01:31<SJrX>Your 'OPENTTDW.GRF' file is corrupted or missing! This file was part of your installation.
01:32<@Rubidium>that file shouldn't be in your home directory's data dir
01:33<@Rubidium>you probably copied that from Windows and the version you were using there differs
01:33<SJrX>no I didn't
01:34<SJrX>b6689105405fa3ea34cb8a5543633d29 OPENTTDW.GRF
01:34<SJrX>that's the md5
01:35<SJrX>Time to not use the deb
01:35<@Rubidium>that's 0.7.0-beta1/recent trunk
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01:39<SJrX>If I want music I just put the gm file either in the gm subdirectory or in ~/.openttd?
01:40<@Rubidium>gm file? singular?
01:40<@Rubidium>the folder called gm should be in .openttd
01:40<@Rubidium>and make sure you've got timidity installed if you want it played
01:41<@Rubidium>and be *very* aware that timidity uses a *LOT* of CPU
01:42<SJrX>that sucks
01:45<@Rubidium>just do timidity and see it 'waste' CPU
01:47<Felicitus>Rubidium: too late, i already filed a feature request:)
01:48<Yexo>good morning
01:48<Felicitus>good morning yexo
01:49<Felicitus>but until such a function is available, the ai is pretty lost in evaluating the trains :(
01:49<Yexo>Felicitus: "This function is not exhaustive; a true here does not mean that the vehicle can pull the wagons, a false does mean it can't.". So what needs to be done from the AI programmer's side? <- You should call that result, if it returns false, it can't be attached
01:49<Yexo>if it returns true, you should try and see whether it works
01:49<Felicitus>Yexo: oh ok :)
01:50<Felicitus>in simple words: trust "false", don't trust "true"
01:50<Yexo>that's not perfect, but implementing a perfect function is impossible, since the newgrf can base it's decisions on a lot of things
01:50<Yexo>Felicitus: exactly :)
01:50<Felicitus>yes i guessed that
01:50<Felicitus>i learned two weeks ago that newgrfs can do alot of things
01:51<Yexo>about the power of a train engine, do you only need that in AIEngine or also in AIVehicle? (only for new engines or also the total value for an existing train?)
01:51<Felicitus>i was playing on a modded server, of course i picked the train which had a good reliability, good power and was cheap - until i found out that i cannot attach coal waggons to it :)
01:52<Felicitus>well, for now i just need the power of the engine for new vehicle
01:52<Felicitus>so that the ai can estimate how performant it is
01:52<SJrX>wow lol it's using 25% of my CPU
01:52<Felicitus>but i think i need to dig into the openttd core, especially on where the acceleration is calculated
01:52<SJrX>why is it so bad
01:52<@Rubidium>refitting may change power too, but there's no way to find out how much until you do it
01:53<Felicitus>yes, but usually the value which the "new engine" window shows is the one to use in the calculation
01:53<@Rubidium>SJrX: when you know, please tell us
01:54<SJrX>lol touche
01:54<SJrX>You guys do good work
01:54<SJrX>Damn I remember having this problem, that I wanted to fix with PBS, but now I can't find the save game, and since I named all my companies the same in all it's just a nightmare
01:54<SJrX>it's weird I remember some of these games from over the years
01:55<Felicitus>SJrX: i noticed that also. i still remember some of my games on kurt's
01:56<SJrX>Found it
01:57<SJrX>Hmmmm I think it's time to start a new game
01:59<Felicitus>Yexo: now that i think of it, it might be also a good idea to retrieve the weight also. i guess it's taken into the calculation how quick a train accelerates, right?
02:00<@Rubidium>yes, but depending on the model it's done differently
02:00<@Rubidium>but then, so is maximum tractive effort
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02:01<Felicitus>well i dont need exact numbers, just a rough estimate
02:02<Felicitus>so the power should be enough to start off with
02:02<@Rubidium>max tractive effort can be very important for acceleration
02:03<Felicitus>hmm, i never had a detail look at that
02:03<Yexo>Felicitus: I don't like half work, so I'll take a look and add several functions, ie GetPower, GetMaxTractiveEffort, GetWeight, etc. (dunno if there is more)
02:03<Felicitus>Yexo: that's great
02:04<Felicitus>Rubidium: if the AI would take *everything* into account, it would never be beatable, so i want to beheave it not so precisely
02:05<@Rubidium>if the AI takes everything into account it'd be way too slow
02:05<Felicitus>yes, probably
02:06<Felicitus>but it already beat me in picking the starting spots around 9/10 times :)
02:07<Felicitus>and the one time i won was because a new power station at the opposite map corner was built
02:08<@Rubidium>just play like 'rondje (om de kerk)' and you'll beat the AI (assuming you can handle that strategy)
02:08<Felicitus>what's that exactly?
02:09<@Rubidium>an AI that's like a parasite
02:10<Felicitus>uhm where can i find information about that? google only spits out dutch sites
02:10<Felicitus>found it
02:10<@Rubidium> ?
02:13<Felicitus>well, i consider selling vehicles at the end as abuse, and neither i nor my engine will do that :)
02:14<Felicitus>how about adding an initial worth loss of the vehicle? :)
02:15<@Rubidium>has been propose a few times already
02:16<Felicitus>wow, gentoo has a current ebuild for openttd! yay!
02:16<@Rubidium>need to implement it in a proper way
02:16<@Rubidium>what do you mean with proper?
02:17<Felicitus>that would be great. its already forbidden to sell trains at the end of the line (also called one-way trains) on many servers, but it can't be checked properly by the server :( so many people abuse the rule
02:17<Felicitus>Rubidium: huh?
02:17<@Rubidium>s/proper/current/ :)
02:19<@Rubidium>yeah, took only 4 months to get through their political games
02:19<Felicitus>ah, thats why
02:20<Felicitus>usually i play on windows, but now i'm on gentoo for the ai development and i havent played a single game for like one week now
02:20<Felicitus>my ranking on kurt's is...well...bad :)
02:20<@Rubidium>still dislike gentoo's mutilations
02:21<Felicitus>hmm i'm used to it. as i need unusual configurations on a daily basis, i'm sticking with it since several years now
02:21<Felicitus>if i need some kind of standard configuration, i pick windows ;)
02:21<@Rubidium> <- for if you want something that doesn't take 4 months to update
02:22<@Rubidium>or rather, it took 6 months to get updated, but that's another story
02:22<Felicitus>well i use trunk for ai development, so i dont really need the overlay
02:23<Felicitus>hmm how does that sound? reliability 70%, speed 10%, cost 20% when valuating trains?
02:24<@Rubidium>depends on the settings
02:24<@Rubidium>breakdowns turned off: reliability 0%
02:24<Felicitus>that's a good point
02:27<Felicitus>thanks for the pointer :)
02:28<Eddi|zuHause>imho, the reliability should not decrease when breakdowns are off
02:28<Eddi|zuHause>solves other things like suggestions for station rating
02:29<Eddi|zuHause>and letting a vehicle leave the depot should reduce value by 20%
02:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15519 /trunk/ (14 files in 4 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: support for waypoints by adding AIRail::Build/Remove RailWaypoint, AIWaypoint and AIWaypointList.
02:46<Felicitus>much thanks Yexo
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03:07<Felicitus>urx - squirrel has got pow() defined in its standard libraries :(
03:08<Yexo>Felicitus: that doens't mean it's available for an AI
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03:08<Yexo>nearly all of the standard squirrel libraries are disabled
03:08<Felicitus>yes, thats why i wrote "urx" :)
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03:15<planetmaker>good morning
03:17<@Rubidium>afternoon planetmaker ;)
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03:32<planetmaker> <--- hehe @ dihedral . You're absolutely right
03:32<Felicitus>i hate squirrel
03:32<Felicitus>quote: Statics are read-only.
03:33<Felicitus>do i have to use globals? :(
03:33<dihedral>Felicitus, are you a php guy by any chance?
03:34<Felicitus>dihedral: yep
03:34<Felicitus>oh you mean because i used the term static? :)
03:34<dihedral>planetmaker, i only had intended to write the first to lines, but then the thoughts just started flowing :-P
03:34<dihedral>Felicitus, no, not just :-P
03:34<dihedral>and the term static is used in many languages
03:34<Felicitus>why else, dihedral ?
03:35<dihedral>but you asked if you had to use globals, because of $beers["yexo"]++, and other stuff
03:35<dihedral>just kinda sticks out
03:35<dihedral>and you should avoid globals in php also ;-)
03:35<dihedral>just a wee hint on the side :-P
03:36<Felicitus>well, i have grown up with basic and then c/c++, but i did alot of php development recently - primarly for business purposes
03:36<Felicitus>dihedral: well, i want to AVOID globals, that's why i was wondering that statics are read only
03:36<dihedral>it's just a trade of a language ;-)
03:37<Felicitus>and when i have a look at other php projects, i believe i am the only guy who writes OO code
03:37<dihedral>then i you are looking at the wrong stuff
03:37<dihedral>and for sure you have not met DASPRiD
03:37<Felicitus>well, look at phpmyadmin, contenido, typo3, phpbb etc etc
03:37<dihedral>besides, if it's OO for php4, it sucks :-P
03:38<dihedral>typo is OO!
03:38<Felicitus>its not even procedural code, it's...well...mixed up
03:38<dihedral>as is typolight
03:38<Felicitus>it is?
03:38<dihedral>typolight in fact will blow your mind
03:38<Felicitus>last time i looked at typo3 (i have to admit it was several years ago) i found functions everywhere
03:38<Felicitus>but almost no classes :)
03:39<DASPRiD>Just writing OOP ist nothing special, having a good MVC structure is important.
03:39<Felicitus>yes, DASPRiD
03:39<Felicitus>and a good object model
03:40<Felicitus>by the way, dihedral, i'm still waiting for a CMS which uses the ExtJS library
03:40<DASPRiD>all those named projects are simply old, in that time, neither OOP nor MVC was important in any kind
03:41<Felicitus>i'm using that for my current project -
03:41<DASPRiD>403 Forbidden - One of the most interesting projects ;P
03:41<dihedral>yes, there seem to be quite a few of them, or of their parent project 404
03:42<Felicitus>copy'n'paste for beginners - dont try that at home, kids
03:42<Felicitus>(a shame i dont know my own URLs :)
03:42<dihedral>device manager for switches? in php?
03:43<DASPRiD>Looks weird / wired
03:43<Felicitus>dihedral: what you see is where you can design the switch. and actually that piece runs 100% in the browser. saving/loading devices is done via ajax
03:44<DASPRiD>ajax is so 1990' :/
03:44<Felicitus>what would you use? ;)
03:45<db48x>ajaj is the new thing
03:45<DASPRiD>db48x, correct
03:45<dihedral>i wrote a hardware configurator for appliances once
03:45<dihedral>for the last company i worked for
03:45<Felicitus>well, yes, actually it is ajaj then
03:45<dihedral>it's online
03:45<Felicitus>now that you say
03:45<dihedral>it runs 100% with oo js
03:46<dihedral>only downside, the company never populated it with the data
03:46<DASPRiD>talking about oo js:
03:46<Felicitus>dihedral: that's what I'm heading for also. i started the project a few years ago, and did stuff here and there, but now it's time to put the whole thing on a completely new platform
03:47<Felicitus>for example, the canvas support for the device editor is oo, but the rest of the platform isn't
03:47<dihedral>my highscore has been saved, Darkvater
03:47<DASPRiD>dihedral, first level? ;)
03:47<Felicitus>by the way, if someone wants to try that device editor yourself: then
03:48<Felicitus> even
03:49<db48x>otoh, ajaj is a really terrible name
03:49<db48x>it's a name for a thing that doesn't need a name
03:49<DASPRiD>db48x, that's why everyone just calls it json
03:49<DASPRiD>frddy vs json
03:49<Felicitus>ciwyw :)
03:51<DASPRiD>heh i made dihedral addicted i guess
03:54<Felicitus>hmm, so let's get back to the original topic: if i have a squirrel class with a static function, and i need to cache data between the calls of that function, how would i do that? i dont want to use globals
03:54<Felicitus>DASPRiD: yes its nice :)
03:56<DASPRiD>yet nobody solved the last level ;)
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03:58<Yexo>Felicitus: you'll have to use a global in some way or another
03:59<DASPRiD>not actually
03:59<DASPRiD>The registry design pattern helps you out at that point
03:59<DASPRiD>at least until namespaces come into game
04:00<@Rubidium>a variable of a static class is in effect a global too
04:00<Felicitus>Rubidium: yes, but i see it as some kind of "private" to that class, more or less protected from the rest
04:01<Felicitus>and even php5 supports private static on attributes, which makes it exclusive to that class
04:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15520 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (15 files): -Cleanup [NoAI]: Fix some typos, unify the comment style and update some documentation since a few enums have been renamed.
04:03<DASPRiD>correct, take a look at Zend_Registry:
04:06<Felicitus>and i can't await php 5.3 - finally they introduce namespaces
04:08<Felicitus>and i can start my new project. until then i need to wait until php 5.3 builds on my box or continue working on the felicitusAI :)
04:09<DASPRiD>dihedral, are you trying to solve the sunshine level?
04:10<DASPRiD>Felicitus, heh, probably learn something useful until then... like zend framework ;)
04:10<Felicitus>DASPRiD: i know the zend framework
04:11<Felicitus>but since i was using portions of contenido as base for my work, i could not use it
04:11<DASPRiD>well, you can always use single components of zend framework, thanks to it's use-at-will structure
04:12*DASPRiD listens to: Amon Amarth - Varyags of Miklagaard
04:12<Felicitus>yes and no - many patterns of what zend provides are already implemented in contenido
04:13<DASPRiD>yeah and so you can use the components of ZF which supply the missing patterns
04:16<planetmaker>DASPRiD: what's the aim of this klotski-game?
04:16<Felicitus>there's nothing that comes into my mind which could be replaced by zf easily, and the last projects i did were pretty much implemented without any modifications to the core
04:16<Felicitus>and as i see, there's still no ORM provided by zend :(
04:17<DASPRiD>Felicitus, don't know, how about for example Zend_Uri?
04:17<DASPRiD>or ZendX_Console_Process_Unix ;)
04:17<DASPRiD>planetmaker, guess :)
04:17<planetmaker>some kind of final configuration...
04:18<Felicitus>DASPRiD: actually no. the only thing where URIs are processed is actually on the client (js) side - the rest goes via web services, and the web service is integrated within contenido
04:18<DASPRiD>planetmaker, move marked block to green area
04:18<planetmaker>ah... the marked block... :)
04:20<Felicitus>hmm...there's no platform where someone can start working with (like a PHP-based system) and then evolve to a better performance platform later (like java or c/c++) when the business grows?
04:20<Felicitus>and the actual application logic is implemented in some kind of meta-language?
04:20<DASPRiD>well, java-bridge?
04:21<Felicitus>no that's not what i mean
04:22<DASPRiD>ah i c what you mean
04:22<DASPRiD>the interpreter beeing written in language a) and b)?
04:22<Felicitus>plus the environment, like persistence and application layer
04:22<DASPRiD>tho, why should you start with the slowest interpreter
04:22<DASPRiD>there's not persistence in web ;)
04:23<Felicitus>because the business is small and you can't afford an own server
04:24<Felicitus>i have had the problem myself - i'm currently implementing the network monitoring system in PHP, because I a) want to run it on my web server, b) i probably want to license it to customers and c) i maybe want to give it out as open source
04:24<DASPRiD>well i don't know such a platfrom
04:24<Felicitus>most people only have PHP on their server, but customers want to be sure that the software also runs well, and they don't really want a PHP cluster :)
04:25<Felicitus>the pattern which would describe my approach is "implement once - serve many" :)
04:27<Felicitus>or some kind of meta-language, which can generate code automatically - just like the UML->(language XY) generators, but not for the class design, but for the actual implementation
04:28<DASPRiD>then you could simply write a php2cpp converter ;)
04:29<Felicitus>and what if my customer already has a big java cluster running? :)
04:29<DASPRiD>then you go on with your next projects: php2java
04:29<DASPRiD>simple, eh? ;)
04:29<Felicitus>or i embed squirrel everywhere :)
04:29<DASPRiD>or you write everything in brainfuck
04:30<DASPRiD>writing brainfuck interpreters is easy
04:30<dihedral> <- Roest: Uh Uh Uh.... i wanna play too :-D
04:30<DASPRiD>dihedral, wb ;)
04:31<DASPRiD>you didnt solve the last level :x
04:32<dihedral>i was close, but i need to work
04:33<dihedral>well 'close' being on a very good way :-P
04:33<DASPRiD>you will get more levels later
04:33<dihedral>had all the little blocks down by the big fat boy
04:33<DASPRiD> is yet reserved ;)
04:33<dihedral>i will not try later ;-)
04:33<Felicitus>that's what i described :D
04:33<dihedral>i need to work (aka looking at openttd source or tcl stuff :-P)
04:33<DASPRiD>you could try to cheat into the highscore
04:34<DASPRiD>but thats not possible, the server validates all your moves ;)
04:34<dihedral>sure i can cheat into the highscore
04:34<dihedral>that is very easy
04:34<dihedral>just need a http proxy :-P
04:34<dihedral>and then resend the data with invalid time stamps
04:35<dihedral>(manipulated rather)
04:35<DASPRiD>dihedral, doesnt work ;)
04:35<dihedral>and why would that not work?
04:35<DASPRiD>you have to send a valid movement-list to the server
04:35<DASPRiD>because it tests all moves and checks if the goal is met
04:36<dihedral>DASPRiD, that is what i just described to you - a simple http replay with manipulated timestamps
04:37<DASPRiD>how does that get you into the highscore? :x
04:37<dihedral>sending valid moves, in very short time
04:37<DASPRiD>well for valid moves, you first have to solve the puzzle ;)
04:37<dihedral>.... did you read what i said or did you just reply?
04:38<DASPRiD>probably either i or you dont get it :)
04:38<dihedral>you can capture sent packets and resend them!
04:38<dihedral>so you solve the puzzle in as much time as you like, whilst caputuring the communication between you and the server
04:39<dihedral>all you then need to do is manipulate the packets and resend them, while your session is still valid
04:39<dihedral>so you have then solved the puzzle in less time, with valid moves.
04:39<dihedral>and it would look very funny if i solve the puzzle with 3k moves and 2 seconds ;-)
04:39<DASPRiD>i dont get the sense of the resend packets somehow
04:39<DASPRiD>ah i c what you want
04:40<DASPRiD>nope that doesnt work :)
04:40<DASPRiD>the time counter runs on server side, connected with a game id, which you get at start of the game
04:40<dihedral>so i start the game from the proxy, then replay my moves
04:40<DASPRiD>that could actually work
04:41<DASPRiD>but still you have the problem in solving the puzzle itself ;)
04:41<dihedral>Roest is funny
04:41<Roest>what why
04:41<dihedral>while he is connected to irc he reads less of the conversations than when he is not :-D
04:42*dihedral chuckles
04:42<Roest>sure you talking about me?
04:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15521 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp engine.cpp engine_base.h): -Codechange: add helper function to get the display tractive effort of a vehicle.
05:05<Felicitus>wow - seems that the SpiderMonkey js engine is supported in all major programming languages, it seems that a PHP pecl module is also prepared :)
05:13<dihedral>now that will make your app widely used! relying on a pecl module!
05:15<Felicitus>yes, that's what i thought also now
05:15<Felicitus>if it was in the core - yes
05:17<@petern>hmm, Rubidium, where does that patch lead? i have an already working "realistic" acceleration patch...
05:18<@Rubidium>giving AIs the possibility to compare on maxte
05:19<@Rubidium>hmm, probably should've written engine instead of vehicle
05:21<@Rubidium>it's just to prevent duplication of some code from the build vehicle gui
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05:34<dihedral>planetmaker, how about we start a 'user flaming' thread :-D
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05:39<dihedral>is distant join station available to AI's?
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06:12<dihedral>what is this silly JacobD88-thing anyway?
06:13<Felicitus>ok that's nice - felicitusAI now picks the best available train available based on cost, reliability and max speed
06:13<Felicitus>as soon as Yexo has implemented the power thing, it's nearly perfect :)
06:14<dihedral>enjoying your progress it seems ;-)
06:15*dihedral wait's for 'scotty beam me up' AI, which uses the advantage of station_spread + distant join stations to the full
06:15<Felicitus>well, i actually already use portions of that to calculate the maximum station length and when it upgrades/extends one station type to another
06:18<dihedral> <- can _anybody_ make heads or tails of this?
06:19<@Rubidium>dihedral: yes; you just need to invert the online-translator and ask a Hungarian
06:19<dihedral>does somebody have a hungarian i could ask?
06:20<@Rubidium>no, don't own one (yet)
06:20<dihedral>when you have one, could you let me know what that guy is trying to express?
06:21<dihedral>he's no hungarian is he? :-P
06:23<dihedral>makes a wee bit more sense, but on a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being the least sense it makes it's still at -90
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06:25<dihedral> <- well then i take it that's a friendly response :-P
06:26<@Rubidium>I think he wants a "select all" button
06:27<dihedral>" designate the designation beside " <- you get that out of this?
06:27<Forked>wow. I have a grand total of 22 posts.. I rock
06:27<dihedral>or "button what every either"
06:28<dihedral>"window 1 such button" <- that kinda sais nothing either
06:28<dihedral>a window with only one button? a window that looks just like one button? he has a button in a window?
06:29*dihedral is totally confuddled
06:29<Forked>dihedral: I responded to that thread with a suggestion.
06:29<@Rubidium>I really think he wants 1 button to select everything in the download content window
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06:35<dihedral>some advertising....:
06:35<dihedral>thank you :-P
06:35<dihedral>Rubidium, now please mangle a response that he will understand :-D
06:39<@Rubidium>no, non, nein, nee, never, n3v4h, nooit, ...
06:39<dihedral>Rubidium, quite simple, reverse the steps you did to find out what he means
06:40<dihedral>or pipe it through 'kenny' :-P
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06:40<dihedral>mmm = a, mmp = b, mmf = c, mpm = d .......
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06:43<DASPRiD>dihedral, o.0
06:43<DASPRiD>mfm = e?
06:44<DASPRiD>or mpp = e?
06:46<FloSoft>I have one crash here: Depot, in front of it I have a pbs signal - soon as a train goes into the depot, it crashes in TrainMovedChangeSignals with an assertion in IsValidTile
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06:48<FloSoft>okay it crashes before trainmovedchangesingals
06:48<FloSoft>i'll try to find it exactly
06:52<FloSoft>aaah - it was a sharedinfrastructure-patch-error ;)
06:52<dihedral>you report bugs on patched games??
06:53*dihedral applauds
06:53<FloSoft>dihedral: yea i first used the wrong binary, sorry
06:53<FloSoft>thought i used the non patched binary to debug
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08:23<dihedral>Roest, i shall try to make you 'smile':
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08:53<Roest>dihedral lol
08:57<dihedral>LapBuster|nuke :-P
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09:13<NukeBuster|laptop>dihedral, i notice you are really busy with that Alain guy.
09:29<Sacro>hmm... what happened to Karen
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09:45<@Rubidium>looks kinda like hungarian to me
09:47<@petern>grr, the backlight on my small monitor is flickering :/
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09:47<@petern>seems to be dependent on screen changes though
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09:49<dihedral>NukeBuster|laptop, Alain is quite annoying
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09:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15522 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/ (contentserver.h handler.cpp main.cpp tcp.cpp): [MSU] -Change: uncomplexify the content server a bit, but use a more memory (and hope it doesn't get OOM-killed ;)).
09:55<Sacro>Rubidium: that's not a word
09:55<Forked>and I think you're missing the word "bit" (more memory) :-)
09:55<Sacro>"uncomplicate" is what you mean
09:56<@Rubidium>Sacro: what's a word and what isn't?
09:57<dihedral>a word of one syllable is a primitive :-P
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09:57<Sacro>Rubidium: "uncomplexify"
09:58<@Rubidium>dihedral: Guy Steele?
09:58<dihedral>Rubidium, yep
09:58<dihedral>after all, you posted the link
09:58<@Rubidium>so uncomplexify is both a word and not a word, interesting
09:59<dihedral>just needs defining :-P
10:00<@Rubidium>uncomplexify: the process of making something less complex.
10:00<dihedral>complex then also needs defining
10:00<@Rubidium>so, now it's in Sacro's vocabulary
10:00<dihedral>it's 2 sylibils
10:00<dihedral>oh no Rubidium
10:01<dihedral>Sacro is a wimp :-D
10:01<@Rubidium>I've chosen the primitives to be 'simple english words'
10:01<@petern>jessica alba is in sacro's "vocabulary"
10:04<DASPRiD>inserted all levels
10:04<@Rubidium>oh, the primitives are even part of Charles K. Ogden's Basic English
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10:17<@Rubidium>petern: you know I like to introduce new words, right?
10:17<dsoxygen>hi there
10:17<@petern>while we're at it
10:17<Sedontane>Can anyone instruct me on how to get my compiled version of OpenTTD to stop saying norev000
10:18<dsoxygen>is there any possibility to manage a openttd ded sever by a other program with DDE?
10:18<@Rubidium>Sedontane: easiest is using a subversion checkout instead of downloading the sources from the website
10:18<Sedontane>I did use svn
10:19<@petern>dsoxygen, no
10:19<@petern>(does DDE still exist, even?)
10:19<@Rubidium>what is DDE?
10:19<dsoxygen>not realy ;)
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10:19<@Rubidium>Devil's Disaster Environment?
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10:21<@Rubidium>to use DDE you need to write a DDE <-> OpenTTD console wrapper application
10:21<@Rubidium>Sedontane: what compiler?
10:21<Sedontane>Vis Studio 2009 Professional
10:22<planetmaker>dsoxygen: you might want to take a look at autopilot or ap+ and the openttdlib
10:22<@Rubidium>it should be able to detect tortoise, unless it's registry settings are screwed up
10:22<Sedontane>only reason im compiling is there seems to be no way to get old nightlies now - and coop has a (recent) old nightly
10:23<dsoxygen>ok thx for the hints
10:23<@Rubidium> doesn't have it anymore?
10:23<@petern>none there :o
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10:24<@petern>do you need r1? hehe
10:24<@Rubidium>petern: more than ~2-3 months old are only the sources
10:24<Sedontane>couldnt find it - there is no obvious link to there on the site
10:24<@petern>which are a lie
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10:24<@petern>because there weren't proper nightlies in those dark ages
10:25<@Rubidium>true; we kinda reconstructed it
10:27<Sedontane>got it
10:28<Sedontane>cheers guys
10:29<planetmaker>DASPRiD: ha, "success" was really a success :P
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10:43<@petern>HUGE SUCCESS
10:58<@petern>what svn clients are there for windows other than tortoise?
10:59<Sacro>well, that's VS plugin
10:59<Roest>subversive, but that's an eclipse plugin
10:59<DASPRiD>(standalone gui)
10:59<DASPRiD>and svn console client itself for sure
10:59<@petern>ankhsvn's shit :D
11:00<@petern>and not what i need
11:00<Roest>i have yet to find a way to apply a patch and edit conflicts with ankh
11:02<dihedral>petern, what you wanting to do?
11:03<DASPRiD>petern, and what about my suggestions?
11:05<@petern>trying it
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11:11<+glx>but it doesn't work with express versions
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11:16<@Belugas>that's ... unfortunate
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11:22<Roest>hmm interesting, who's that alain guy dihedral is speaking of
11:22<dihedral>what me? where?
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11:33<dihedral>Roest, yes? :-P
11:34<@petern>yeah well i'm not using MSVC
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11:35<@petern>i need it on a server where i don't want all tortoise's bloat in there
11:35<+glx>then just use svn CLI
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11:35<@petern>well rapidsvn already did the trick
11:39<dihedral>all gui stuff is 'bloated' :-D
11:42<DASPRiD>dihedral, but rapidsvn is nice and cross-platform :P
11:43<+glx>svn is too
11:48<DASPRiD>glx, no argument against rapidsvn ;)
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11:50<dihedral>DASPRiD, cli counts
11:51<DASPRiD>anyway, i prefer subversive in zsfe :)
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11:53<dihedral>svn gui clients is only for people who cannot read unified diff format and dont know how to edit conflicts in vim
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11:55<Sacro><3 vim
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11:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15523 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
11:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-19 16:58:17
11:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 3 fixed, 8 changed by Ludslad (11)
11:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 14 fixed by t2t2 (14)
11:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 1 changed by v3rb0 (1)
11:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 336 fixed by Gubius (336)
12:00<Sacro>that's not a real language
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12:06<NukeBuster|laptop>There should be a swedish shef language ;)
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12:09<Mortomes>Make it happen
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12:13<@Belugas>i solve conflicts in Notepad++, in Tortoise, in VisualSVN... am i a bad person??
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12:16<+glx>I use notepad++ too :)
12:16<+glx>svn starts it directly
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>you use windows, you can only be evil :p
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>or mad
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>or both
12:21<@Belugas>I love Notepad++ :D it's quick, it's simple, it has nice highlights...
12:21<@Belugas>i'm not ONLY using windows, Eddi|zuHause :) My laptop is on Ubuntu
12:21<@Belugas>AND Xp
12:22<@Belugas>it's recent ;)
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12:54<dihedral>0118 999 881 999 119 725
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>that's an awfully long phone number
12:58<+glx>nice one
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12:59<Eddi|zuHause>see... it actually WAS a phone number :p
13:02<dihedral>i just want those number sung out, as a ringtone for my mobile....
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i think i am psychic... when watching that sketch i though "they need to make a joke about '911', too"
13:02<dihedral>it was your female intuition
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>yes, even my maths teacher told that to me
13:05<dihedral>you bitch :-P
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13:58<energetic>any past efforts for a scrpting system to make ur own levels?
13:58<energetic>(or level sequences)
13:59-!-Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
13:59<Yexo>energetic: I don't know about any
13:59<@Belugas>i don't even know what you are talking about
14:00<energetic>like the NOAI system, only for level scripting instead of creating AIs
14:00<@Belugas>what is level scrpting?
14:00<Yexo>energetic: you're talking about creating scenarios goals right?
14:00<Yexo>hello planetmaker
14:01<energetic>level scripting -> create a system where you can make interactive scenarios
14:01<energetic>eg goal is to make 10 trains, earn 2M/y
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14:02<energetic>Yexo: yes :)
14:02<energetic>Belugas: U understand it now?
14:03<@Belugas>not U
14:03<energetic>y not?
14:03<@Belugas>Yo MAN, watsup?
14:03<@Belugas>yes, i do understand now. no, nobody cared on working on this
14:03<energetic>its just chatlanguage? often used words making them very short?
14:04<@Belugas>no, it's american slang and it's not welcome in here
14:04<energetic>"wtf r u talkin bout" is nicely short :P
14:04<planetmaker>energetic: you may understand it. None native speakers may not.
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14:05<@Belugas>do you find a kick nice?
14:05*planetmaker hugs Belugas
14:05<Mortomes>It's also a nice sore to the eye.
14:05<Alberth>and very difficult to read
14:06<energetic>do you find a kick nice? -> that was for me?
14:06<energetic>well, I have no problem conforming to some standard whatsoever
14:06<energetic>but I was under the impression that this _was_ the standard :P
14:06<+glx>not here :)
14:06<planetmaker>luckily :)
14:07<Alberth>energetic: the only other scripting effort I am aware of, is an attempt to implement NewGRF callbacks in a script. It didn't get very far (luckily imho)
14:08<energetic>are there any plans or opinions about such an effort?
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14:09<Jolteon>I need some help.
14:09<Jolteon>I can't build planes D:
14:09<Jolteon>Just says "can't build aircraft"
14:09<planetmaker>set the maximum allowed number of planes to > 0
14:10<planetmaker>and make sure that the game year is such that planes are available
14:10<planetmaker>1850 obviously there won't be planes
14:10<Alberth>energetic: not sure what the gain would be, everybody gets very rich in a few years, so what kind of goals are left then?
14:11<energetic>thats exactly the reason why you want such a system, I think. e.g. create levels where you can set custom goals with custom metrics
14:11<energetic>ie. make an island with coal mines impossible to start with
14:11<energetic>and have a goal transporting x coal/month
14:12<energetic>or like a newbie system where you can start with a 64x64 level explaining basics
14:12<energetic>when he connected the two coal mines, the level becomes an 128x128 sized one with the network still on it.
14:13<energetic>when he successfully meets goal2, level is again elnarged, goal harder (or based on current network)
14:14<energetic>adaptive decisionmaking for ie disasters (player is going well -> more disasters, bad player-> less disasters
14:14<planetmaker>btw, Jolteon , plane availability depends upon the plane newGRF(s) loaded - if any.
14:14<Alberth>energetic: a script for demo-ing some things (eg laying down rails) would be nice. newbies get heavily confused with the basics.
14:14<Mortomes>Wasn't there a basic demo for that in the original ttd?
14:14<Alberth>yes, there was
14:15<energetic>yeah. this way they can learn it all while having fun and a concise nice goal to motivate them
14:15<energetic>yapf, yapp, junctions, etcetc
14:15<Alberth>not sure whether you should dynamically set new goals, but I guess it is possible.
14:15<energetic>well a lot is possible
14:15<Ammler>iirc, Truebrain has a patch for
14:16<energetic>but i would love to see some very challneging maps
14:16<Ammler>quite old rev, but :-)
14:16<energetic>maps who are hard for very experienced players
14:16<energetic>eg have company value of 10M within ten year on a given map
14:18<energetic>but also a lot of ingame gimmicks, such as different town authorities some very reluctant to change, some dont care
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14:21<Alberth>personally, I don't care much for goals, so no idea whether such goals are useful
14:22-!-Eoin [] has joined #openttd
14:22<welshdragon>is there a server that can host a map for me and Eoin?
14:22<Eoin>or can i increase the connection tick limit?
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14:41<Sacro>Eoin: you can increase the tick limit
14:41<Eoin>ive already figure out how
14:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15524 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIEngine::GetPower, AIEngine::GetWeight and AIEngine::GetMaxTractiveEffort.
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14:45<Sacro>I found a bug in 0.7.0-beta1 :D
14:45*Sacro dances
14:46*Sacro wants Bjarni to fix it
14:49<Eoin>what is it xD
14:52<@petern>@seen bjarni
14:52<@DorpsGek>petern: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 19 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Bjarni> night
14:53<svip>@seen svip
14:53<@DorpsGek>svip: svip was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 22 hours, 9 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <svip> :S
14:53<svip>Man, I have been gone a long time.
14:53<@petern>@seen peter1138
14:53<@DorpsGek>petern: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 5 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <peter1138> Hmm, seems OpenTTD's config rewrites the files that stall...
14:55<@Bjarni>hello petern
14:55<Sacro>@seen Karen
14:55<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen Karen.
14:55<Sacro>@seen patchbot
14:55<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen patchbot.
14:55<@Bjarni>@seen boobs
14:55<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: I have not seen boobs.
14:55<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
14:55<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 seconds ago: <Bjarni> @seen boobs
14:56<Sacro>i do love boobs
14:56<@Bjarni>looks like that bot is blind
14:56<@Bjarni>it's on the internet after all and still....
14:57<frosch123>Bjarni: wrong question
14:57<frosch123>@seen someone
14:57<@DorpsGek>frosch123: someone was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 3 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 4 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: * Someone here is gay
15:02<@petern># don't give up, cos you have friends
15:03<welshdragon>can we ave speed limits?
15:03<Roest>who'd want that?
15:03<welshdragon>me :P
15:03<planetmaker>speak slower, please, welshdragon - you're beyond the speed limit of talking ;)
15:04<welshdragon>planetmaker: haha
15:05<Eoin>save game
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15:05<welshdragon>Eoin: in a sec
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15:05<welshdragon>i'm on t'loo
15:05<Eoin>oo errr
15:08<Eoin>save already!
15:08<Eoin>i got praccie
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15:11<bayo_O>iv got problem to use OpenTTD with OpenGFX is anybody can help me?
15:11<Alberth>bayo_O: don't ask to ask, just ask
15:12<Wolf01> I wonder if I can use it to play OTTD
15:13<Alberth>welshdragon: there is a speed limit setting for railroad cars in 'advanced settings'
15:13<+glx>bayo_O: is your problem the black boxes?
15:14<bayo_O>i install 0.7.0-beta1, copy the OpenGFX_Alpha4.2.tar into /data
15:14<welshdragon>Alberth: i wast thinking of setting by signals
15:14<+glx>why not use content downloader instead?
15:14<bayo_O>it said "cannot open the file"
15:15<+glx>you still need this file from TTD CD
15:15<Yexo>doesn't an empty file work too?
15:15<Alberth>welshdragon: we need to have traffic light signals
15:15<+glx>opengfx is only about graphics, not sound
15:15<bayo_O>hooo ok :D
15:15<+glx>Yexo: yes empty works, but then we'll get complains about no sound ;)
15:16<welshdragon>Alberth: yes, those would be good too
15:17<bayo_O>well it work with a dummy file... thanks a lot for your help
15:18<Alberth>welshdragon: we don't have speeding signals
15:20<welshdragon>Alberth: i thought it might be easier than having a separate speed limit sign
15:20<@petern># big time
15:20<welshdragon>although they could be quite easy to draw
15:20<@petern># i'm on my way, i'm making it (big time)
15:21<el_en>what are the black boxes anyway? they make opengfx look like a japanese porn movie.
15:21<@petern>they are censorship boxes
15:22<Alberth>welshdragon: we should have ones with a camera that flash when a train goes too fast, so we can bill the player
15:22<welshdragon>Alberth: that's too far
15:22<Alberth>el_en: also known as black holes that the graphic artists didn't fill in yet
15:22<welshdragon>maybe for RV's
15:23<Alberth>welshdragon: we could use Roujin's city traffic light
15:25<welshdragon>Alberth: hmm
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15:28<+glx>el_en: they are just TODO sprites
15:29<+glx>better have black boxes than big red questionmarks :)
15:33<@Belugas>or big crashes...
15:33<@petern>the bulge
15:33<@petern>in my
15:33<@petern>big big big big big big big big crahes
15:34<@Belugas>ain't PN, It;s PG!
15:34<@petern>he has a cool first name :D
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15:40<el_en>oh no, Bjarni crashed.
15:41<@Belugas>i know quite a few Peter in the music industry....
15:42<frosch123>does Moby count as a belugas?
15:42<@Rubidium>year, with a bit of royal plural it does ;)
15:42<@Belugas>not at all you young man!
15:43<@Belugas>in french, it's a cachalot
15:43<@Belugas>not a beluga
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15:43<@Belugas>ah... yes... a sperm whale
15:44<el_en>Airbus Beluga is a cool plane.
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16:00<planetmaker>he, yeah.
16:00<planetmaker>Quite impressive, if you've been standing in one.
16:01<el_en>I've seen one irl, twice.
16:01<el_en>Over here, in Turku, Finland.
16:02<svip>Why does everyone live in Turku?!
16:03<el_en>Not everyone on this channel.
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16:16<KingJ>My network card (bge0) is listed in Assign Interfaces, but if I do a ifconfig it only shows fwip0 and lo0
16:16<KingJ>Of course i'm talking in completely the wrong channel, sorry
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16:26<@Belugas>i've seen quite a few belugas, this summer. As well as some megapteres. But never sperm whales. they do not come deep enough
16:26<@Belugas>too bad
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16:30<Wolf01>about that topic with the strange language: there are other translation suggestions?
16:31<Wolf01>I think that "dog I icecream have want Obama, button example, what" could be more understandable
16:32<@Rubidium>translate it back into hungarian and then to your language; might give a better translation
16:32<Sacro>my god...
16:32<Sacro>limitation disturbs me very sprites :(
16:33<Wolf01>I once tried to translate a text 5 or 6 times from italian to english and back to italian... the meaning of the resulting sentence had nothing to do with the starting sentence
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16:37<NightKhaos>Hey everybody
16:39<Wolf01>google translator speaks like Yoda
16:39<Wolf01>hey NightKhaos
16:41<@Rubidium>Wolf01: do it correctly if you do it; like Yoda Google translator speaks
16:42<Wolf01>AH! got it! Rubidium you are a genius
16:43<@Rubidium>yes, a genius I am
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16:44<Wolf01>"The content should be "similar to a window, press 1" to designate designate "button, or by all (for example: He is the description for each)."
16:44<Wolf01>english->hungarian->italian->english eheh :D
16:45<Wolf01>it still doesn't mean anything, but at least it's readable :P
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>if you want that they build it for you, press 1
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17:12<NightKhaos>I wish there was a copy and paste function... or have I missed it?
17:13<NightKhaos>erm which one?
17:13<Wolf01>A or B, yes
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17:14<@Rubidium>the former isn't a question
17:15<NightKhaos>... okay, is there a missing copy or paste function?
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>if there was, it wouldn't be missing
17:18<smallfly>dihedral, SirkoZ seemed to have some good arguments. why do you prefer excluding the copy&paste function?
17:18<NightKhaos>ahh it's in miniN...
17:19<Yexo>NightKhaos: MiniIN is ancient
17:20<NightKhaos>"apparently" it's in MiniN.
17:21<@Rubidium>it's kinda in the forum too
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17:22<Wolf01>ok, you understood... I greet the italian channels in english and the english channels in italian... I'm really tired
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17:50<dihedral> <- LOL
17:50<dihedral>just darn right great!
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18:10<el_en>did they (the germans) dub the korean and/or french in Lost?
18:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15525 /trunk/src/saveload/ai_sl.cpp: -Fix: Don't try to find the AIs the server runs when joining a mp server.
18:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15526 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_order.cpp ai_order.hpp ai_order.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: Support for conditional orders.
18:16<el_en>haben die deutschen die koreanisch oder französisch im Lost gedubben?
18:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15527 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_order.cpp: -Fix (r15526): A ')' too much.
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>el_en: no
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>they subtitled it
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>also, "dubben" is a weak verb, so it is "gedubbt" ;)
18:24-!-hipahyl [~hipahyl@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>(there are more oddities in that sentence)
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18:25<el_en>ah, they're not completely out of their minds then, despite Heroes.
18:26<+glx>here they subtitled japanese in Heroes
18:26<+glx>same goes for korean in Lost
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>let's not think about heroes...
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>we bury that far far away in our minds
18:27<el_en>glx: what about the french in lost? (season 5 episode 4, 5)
18:27<+glx>hmm I will see this summer :)
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>there were french parts before...
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>like the broadcast message
18:28<el_en>oh yes
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>and when Rousseau first appeared
18:29<+glx>oh the message was in german IIRC :)
18:29<el_en>what's "the french chick" in french? :)
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>glx: if the message was german, and the message was from Rousseau, what was Rousseau speaking then?
18:31<el_en>"the french chick" is how hugo called rousseau.
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18:33<+glx>she's german
18:33-!-goodger [] has joined #openttd
18:33<el_en>is she even Rousseau?
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>well, i presume that's close enough ;)
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18:37<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>anyone else getting timeouts on the forum?
18:37<Nite_Owl>I just left it - no problems here
18:38<dihedral>can someone create a forum for Alain ;-)
18:38<dihedral>or do you think a thread is enough :-P
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18:42<@Rubidium>because constantly complaining about him is equally annoying
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>well... someone decided to encourage him... that's what's the outcome of this is
18:42<dihedral>sorry ;-)
18:42<Nite_Owl>Let him play out his patch pack fantasy and like all of the others it will die a slow, agonizing death due to upkeep problems
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>the miniin did not die slowly
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>it was a definite and controlled end
18:44<Nite_Owl>that is true - I revise the above to read "like a majority of the others"
18:45<dihedral>you did have a few more poeple working on it
18:45<dihedral>and they did have a bit more understanding of what they were doing
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18:45<@Rubidium>MiniIN was dead quite long before the real end
18:45<planetmaker>[00:42] <Eddi|zuHause> well... someone decided to encourage him... that's what's the outcome of this is <--- he, sorry
18:45<@Rubidium>it was just 'backporting' 0.6 bugfixes
18:46<dihedral>i've followed SmatZ' advice ;-)
18:46<+glx>and the "author" of miniin often ask us to do his job ;)
18:47<+glx>he was usually unable to do a sync correctly
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>well, i remember back when i ported the bridge patch, it was not accepted because "the end" was already decided
18:48<+glx>even worse when we introduced the new window system
18:48<@Rubidium>new window system during miniin?
18:49<+glx>there was big feature during miniin but maybe it was not this one
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>i though "new window system" was a C++ thing
18:49<@Rubidium>oh, maybe the widget accessor functions
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>the whole "made a class of the XYZ window" stuff
18:49<+glx>and c++ move definitely killed it
18:50<+glx>ha right it was widget accessors
18:51<+glx>btw miniin was just unmaintainable
18:51<dihedral>too fat
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>well, the "mini" part was a misnomer, really ;)
18:51<+glx>worse patch in it was infrastructure sharing
18:51<+glx>conflicts everywhere when syncing
18:52<planetmaker>that feature is indeed a bitch when it comes to syncing
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>you shoul commit it to trunk already ;)
18:53<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: in the current form?!
18:53<+glx>no way :)
18:53<dihedral>that'd be pretty bold.... and ... well... stupid :-P
18:54<el_en>infrastructure sharing should be in trunk to avoid unnecessary patching and conflicts.
18:54<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, perhaps it's less work to commit truck to the IS patch :-D
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>buut!!! it is so community wanted patch!!!
18:54<planetmaker>el_en: did you read the patch's source code?!
18:54<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, hehe
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>and it is "well tested" :p
18:55<+glx>even in MP ;)
18:55<el_en>planetmaker: nope, and i don't mean that particular patch would be the one, but i mean infrastructure sharing as a concept.
18:55<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: it IS well tested.
18:55<dihedral>did SirkoZ write it?
18:55<planetmaker>But... test results are not always what you hope for :P
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18:58<planetmaker>el_en: it's an intriguing feature, for sure :)
18:58<planetmaker>as is cargodest :P
19:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15528 /trunk/src/saveload/ai_sl.cpp: -Fix (r15525): Check should be the other way around (thanks SmatZ).
19:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15529 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix [FS#2644]: the local command queue didn't get properly cleaned when leaving a game meaning you could end up executing commands of the previous network game.
19:08<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, hehe
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19:32<Elukka>yes :/
19:32<Elukka>that sucks
19:32-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
19:33<Elukka>i'm not going to switch to x-plane, though
19:33<Elukka>yet anyway
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19:33<Elukka>they have a fair bit to go before it has all the features msfs has
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>i fail to see the relevance
19:37<KingJ>I won't be switching while FSX works
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19:44<el_en>yes, unfortunately MSFS is still better, but...
19:45<el_en>that's why i have both.
19:45<KingJ>I'd like to get FSPassengers, but it costs more than what I bought FSX itself for
19:46<Elukka>i'd like to get the level-d 767, but it's 43 euros
19:48<el_en>on some other channel someone would have mentioned Flight Gear as an MSFS alternative by now. ;)
19:49<Elukka>i also would want a 737, but there are none as high quality as level-d or pmdg, apparently
19:49<Eoin>i have the Level-D 767, PMDG 737 + 747
19:49<Eoin>there rather good :)
19:49<Eoin>FSPassengers also
19:50<Sacro>i want fspassengers back
19:50<Elukka>if only the pmdg 737 was for fsx
19:50<Sacro>i made them scream >:3
19:51<Eoin>i played funky taxi-ing music
19:51<Eoin>i taxied around schipol for about 25 mins
19:51<@Rubidium>poor you... you didn't even reach Haarlem ;)
19:51<Eoin>i got shouted at on IVAO for that xD
19:51<Elukka>i should get into VATSIM
19:51<Eoin>i used to do alot of ATC on IVAO
19:51<Elukka>the last time i tried, however, whatever program it was that was vista and fsx compatible didnt work at all
19:52<Elukka>so i couldnt
19:52<Eoin>it looks like the way forward is gonna be xplane
19:52<Sacro>yeah :D
19:52<Sacro><3 xplane
19:52<Eoin>never tried it
19:52<Eoin>but i have seen it before#
19:52<Elukka>unless microsoft gets back into the game once the economy stops sucking
19:53<Eoin>they better
19:54<Eoin>i think im going to have to look into aquiring xplane 9
19:55<Eoin>there are FS-XPLANE scenery converters, arent there?
19:55<Elukka>you know what was annoying
19:55<Elukka>how microsoft was going all YAY DX10 WILL BE AWESOME, and this is why you should buy FSX!
19:55<Elukka>then they were "oh we'll patch it in later"
19:56<Elukka>then they were "well there's this preview"
19:56<Elukka>"there will be no real dx10 features"
19:56<Eoin>and now its never coming
19:56<Eoin>thus, im glad i stuck with FS9 xD
19:56<Elukka>the developers mentioned before there are no more patches coming, i believe
20:04*el_en just ordered X-Plane 9
20:04<Sacro>el_en: i downloaded that i think
20:05<Sacro>it is nice
20:05<el_en>installation size 70GB...
20:06<Sacro>a *lot* of scenery
20:06<Sacro>knowing me, knowing you
20:06<Sacro>*ah ha*
20:07<KingJ>There is nothing we can do
20:08*Sacro hands cookies to Rubidium and KingJ
20:08<@Rubidium>what kind of cookies?
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20:10<Sacro>if you change your mind, i'm the first in line
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20:22<nicfer>I would like to see modular industries in some patch of ottd
20:24<nicfer>That's, you could destroy a tile of them but not the rest of it
20:26<Elukka>i wouldnt mind moving to x-plane of flight gear if either of them had the features of fsx...
20:26<nicfer>The destroyed tiles would be rebuilt in other nearby place
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20:30<planetmaker>good night folks
20:33<SPn>I am looking for an extensive guide on errorelimination/problemsolving regarding broadcast issues on hosting your own server online dedicated/non dedicated. I have been through the wiki and alot of sites. I need a guide for far-out solutions, not a regular guide on portforwarding. There is ofc. no firewall blocking or ports not forwarded. I even tryied DMZ'ing the whole adress and actually...
20:33<SPn>...conneting the server straight in the wall to eliminate all errors/problems with the firewall and router..
20:34<nicfer>One question, would be possible to modify a house with newgrf to accept or produce another cargo rather than pax, mail, food or goods?
20:34-!-NukeBuster|laptop [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:34<SPn>Ive been through the cfg in several diffent ways and solutions and can
20:34<DaleStan>nicfer: Yes.
20:34<SPn>'t seem to get anything to work :S
20:35<@Rubidium>what do you exactly want?
20:35<@Rubidium>it to show up in the global server list?
20:36<@Rubidium>you (locally) being able to connect to the server as listed in the global server list?
20:36<@Rubidium>does it show up in the global server list?
20:37<SPn>It doesnt show up in the global server listh wich is what I want it to do- as this would be a fair indication of it being set up correctly for other people to join
20:37<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
20:38<@Rubidium>and have you set lan_internet to 1? (openttd.cfg)
20:38<KenjiE20>no software firewalls?
20:38<SPn>nothing obvious
20:38<KenjiE20>advertise = true?
20:38<@Rubidium>what kind of setup is the server?
20:38<SPn>advertise is true
20:39<SPn>my best card right now is actually my ISP
20:39<SPn>as they might have blocked alot of ports on their side
20:39<SPn>Ive heard complaints of such before- to protect their more inexperienced users
20:39-!-Eoin [] has quit []
20:40<SPn>but its far-fetched since Ive had no problem with any other server/application ive been running
20:40<KenjiE20>hm, I've had issues too, but they were resolved with software firewall, advertise, and bind_ip
20:40<@Rubidium>SPn: what's the IP of the server? (external IP)
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20:40<SPn>I havent transferred it to my mainserver yet since I want it to be running first to spare me the work via. remote control- so im running it on one of my computers
20:41<KenjiE20>I get offline
20:41<SPn>So do I
20:42<@Rubidium>the masterserver has never received a packet from you
20:42<KenjiE20>most likely is a bad port forward
20:42<SPn>Its not a bad portforward
20:42<KenjiE20>are TCP and UDP both forwarded
20:42<SPn>Tried Vista
20:43<SPn>Havent done Winserver2008 yet
20:43<SPn>neither linux
20:43<KenjiE20>can you tracert to the master server?
20:44<@Rubidium>KenjiE20, that's similar to asking: can you connect to the openttd website
20:45<@Rubidium>(as it's the same server)
20:46<KenjiE20>I'm stumped, does openttd use the same port to query the master for the server list as it does to advertise?
20:48<SPn>might be some blocking in the dsl device from my ISP- I think I'll settle with that for now and go to bed
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20:48<SPn>there seems to be no obvious solution to my problem
20:48<SPn>everyting else ticks as it should do and all other forwarding etc. works without a problem
20:48<SPn>ive allowed it in the firewall
20:49<SPn>ive turned the firewall off
20:49<SPn>ive portforwarded it
20:49<SPn>ive removed the whole router
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20:49<@Rubidium>advertising and getting the server list go over the same port and both go to the masterserver
20:49<KenjiE20>so theoretically, if he can get a server list, he should be able to advertise?
20:50<@Rubidium>well, if he can get a server list he would show up in the database with servers who tried to advertise
20:51<@Rubidium>the advertise procedure only succeeds when the masterserver can actually connect back to the server on the port that was given in the advertisement
20:51<@Rubidium>and only then an ack message is send back to the server
20:52<@Rubidium>*but* he doesn't show up in the list of servers who tried, so the packet was never received
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20:55*Sacro sits down
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20:58*Rubidium proposes a /ignore based on the IRC client someone uses
20:58<KenjiE20|LT>yea, I hate those /quits
20:58<KenjiE20|LT>but it's a nice client...
21:00<SPn>its features advertisement contains multiple servers and logging... sounds extremely common and basic :P
21:01<KenjiE20|LT>but the channel monitor is just so useful
21:02<KenjiE20|LT>since I can stack windows up but leave the one monitor bit open and see what happens in any channel
21:02<KenjiE20|LT>I'm in
21:02<KenjiE20|LT>.. stupid laptop enter key
21:03*Sacro considers buying x-plane now
21:04<@Rubidium>wow... it's functionality to mute the audio?
21:04<Sacro>hmm, it'll run on the macbook
21:06<SPn>Anyways. Thx for helping suggesting solutions. Hopefully I find out what was wrong and then Ill be back to post a solution if It was at all relevant to any other user. Keep up the good work! :)
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21:06*KenjiE20|LT wonders if theres a channel monitor style plugin for xchat so I can abandon hydra :p
21:06<Sacro>zomg, $30 shipping D:
21:07<Sacro>that sucks balls
21:07<Sacro>KenjiE20|LT: probably
21:08<Sacro>:( almost £50
21:08<KenjiE20|LT>you do get 80Gb worth of stuff though Sacro
21:08<Sacro>GB :P
21:08<Sacro>i want more than 10GB
21:08<KenjiE20|LT>you pay £40 for a PS3 game these days
21:08<Sacro>i don't personally :)
21:08<KenjiE20|LT>neither do I
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21:09<Sacro>but that is next week delivery
21:09<Sacro>i could save and go for 1-2 weeks
21:09<Sacro>1-6 is just stupid
21:09*Rubidium ponders removing himself from the op list of hydrairc users (as per 'howto' in the TODO file)
21:10-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by Rubidium
21:10-!-mode/#openttd [-v Rubidium] by Rubidium
21:10<@Rubidium>now I should not be in the list of people with ops (for hydrairc users)
21:10*KenjiE20|LT is in xchat on the laptop, so I couldn't say
21:10<Sacro>concorde landing at St. Marteen Princess Juliana Airport
21:11*Sacro feels sorry for the beachgoers
21:11<Elukka>i want to visit that beach
21:12<Sacro> <- that's the one for confused people
21:12<Sacro>Elukka: it'd be... noisy
21:12<Elukka>i've seen pics of some st marteen approaches that were way low...
21:12<Elukka>a klm 747 touched down on the blast pad, for example
21:12<Sacro>that's short
21:13<@Rubidium>there're enough youtube clips too
21:13<KenjiE20|LT>thats the famous pic ain't it Elukka?
21:14<Elukka>i like this one
21:14<Sacro>EDTG - EGLC
21:14<Sacro>that's fine
21:15<Sacro>but alternate VHHH / KLAX
21:15<Sacro>that's a hell of an alternate route
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21:16<Elukka>heh, you can see people on the beach for a second
21:16<Sacro>bremgarten - london city
21:16<Sacro>diversions are chek lap kok or los angeles
21:21<Elukka>shockingly low, just like that man's speedo
21:22<KenjiE20|LT>they all look in calm awe.... right until the backwash hits
21:23<Sacro>hehe :D
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22:59<Felicitus>good morning
23:17<Felicitus>hmm, is it possible to get an git or hg account so i can put my AI development there?
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23:55<+glx>Felicitus: with git and hg you can do it locally
23:55<+glx>"hg init" in your dev dir
23:56<+glx>the usual hg commands
23:56<+glx>"hg add", "hg commit"
23:56<+glx>anyway time to sleep for me :)
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 20 00:00:11 2009