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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-02-27

---Logopened Fri Feb 27 00:00:17 2009
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00:01<welshdragon>hmm, £500 = €520.35
00:01<welshdragon>better :)
00:02<thingwath>depends. not if you have euros and want pounds :o)
00:02<welshdragon>euros i'll keep
00:02<MrFrans>travelex. 513,35
00:03<welshdragon>MrFrans: heh, seems i'm wrong ;)
00:04<MrFrans>it's ok. you can still feel pride in your currency. you are still schooling the dollar and the euro. :P
00:05<welshdragon>but that now means i've spent £180 on acommodation, £150 on travel costs (train + ferry), so it is still quite a cheap holiday
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00:05<thingwath>if you have the money :)
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00:07<welshdragon>i will
00:07<thingwath>my last holiday cost something like 70 euros, and I think it was quite expensive :o)
00:08<welshdragon>i get benefits in 2 weeks (and again in 4), and i'll have cleared my credit card by then
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00:23<Forked>coffee good. also. Good morning!
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03:10<De_ghosty>anyone use ram disk?
03:11-!-Mortal [~mortal@] has quit [Quit: no]
03:16<De_ghosty>window or nix?
03:17<@petern>on linux
03:17<@petern>never had a need on windows
03:17<@petern>^ those were the days
03:17<De_ghosty>how big and how much total ram?
03:18<@petern>1/2GB disk, 1GB ram
03:18<De_ghosty>u give all ur ram to disk?
03:18<De_ghosty>super zip drive
03:18<@petern>no, half
03:18<De_ghosty>yea i was like
03:18<De_ghosty>OMGZ 100mb
03:18<De_ghosty>what can i do with all that space
03:19<De_ghosty>rewriteable 100mb
03:19<De_ghosty>pure awsome
03:19<@petern>i like the last quote
03:19<@petern>"And who knows, with technological breakthroughs in the future, maybe soon we'll see SuperDisks capable of holding more than 120MB. Maybe 250MB (like the new Zips). One can only hope."
03:19<@petern>no, we'll see tiny flash sticks holding 8, 16 or 32GB...
03:19<De_ghosty>we can use flash drive
03:20<De_ghosty>lol 1999 article
03:20<@petern>1999, though
03:20<@petern>back then 128MB was a lot of memory...
03:20<De_ghosty>i wish i bought alot of flash maker stock
03:20<De_ghosty>it was
03:20<De_ghosty>and ram was still price fixed
03:20*db48x has a 500gb portable usb HD
03:20<db48x>named Sneakernet
03:21<Forked>my first computer didn't even have a hard drive.. and the second one came with a 40MB one.. DOS could only handle 32MB partitions
03:21<db48x>Forked: yea, I remember that
03:21<db48x>Forked: I had an extra 8mb partition that never really had anything in it
03:21<Forked>I had my mouse drivers on it :)
03:22<De_ghosty>OLD PPL!!!!!!!!!!!!
03:23<Forked>I'm not even 27 yet..
03:23<De_ghosty>ur old relative to me
03:23<db48x>28 myself
03:23<De_ghosty>hit the turbo button!!!!!!!!
03:23<Forked>ah yes.. the 486
03:23<Forked>33 -> 66mHz
03:24<db48x>actually, the turbo button usually toggled it the other way
03:24<@petern>down to 8 MHz, not half speed
03:24<Forked>if it's called turbo I'm going to assume it speeded things up when needed
03:25<@petern>first DOS i used was 4, which handled 40MB drives okay
03:26<De_ghosty>i never used dos :o
03:26<De_ghosty>i grew up with 95
03:26<Forked>you poor sod.
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03:41<planetmaker>[02:15] <nn64> and allow the servers clients to down load them ? <--- you are NOT allowed to distribute the #openttdcoop newgrf pack.
03:41<planetmaker>it's in violations of the terms of usage and it's in violation of the licenses of several enclosed newgrfs.
03:43<planetmaker>you are, however, free to direct any person to our website to obtain the grf package.
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03:44<Forked>thats so sold baby jesus saw it before he was born!1
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04:09<Eddi|zuHause><Forked> if it's called turbo I'm going to assume it speeded things up when needed <- no, it was to speed the processor DOWN, because some programs relied on a fixed processor speed for timing
04:09<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. some games were unplayable on faster computers
04:09<Forked>then the name "turbo" is misgiving .. if the button is used for clocking down the cpu :)
04:10<Forked>and I remember those games.. went at 2-3x the speed. was quite challenging =p
04:10<Eddi|zuHause>the turbo button turns turbo off!
04:10<Forked>so by pressing the turbo button again.. you turn it on?
04:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but the default was on
04:21<@petern>yes, a two state switch, much like a light switch
04:21<@petern>you press the light switch to turn the lights on or off
04:21<@petern>you press the turbo button to turn turbo on or off...
04:21<@petern>on by default :D
04:21<@petern>unless you wanted to play bouncing babies
04:21<Forked>still the name indicates it's a speedup rather than a step down !
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04:23<Forked>I remember that game
04:23<SmatZ>there were games which tested speed of the CPU at start - if you started it with turbo ON and then turned it OFF, it was much easier to play them
04:23<SmatZ>(for example Shooting Gallery)
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05:02<planetmaker>lol @ petern 's forum post:
05:03<planetmaker>I'm just waiting for the reply "did you maybe forget to add your attachment?" :D
05:04<Forked>poor wacki :\
05:04<Forked>I'm actually tempted to rdp home just to make him a win32 build
05:04*db48x chuckles
05:04<db48x>also, good nick, 1138
05:05<planetmaker>Forked: then go ahead and be the good guy :)
05:06<DASPRiD>"gooy guy" as in "chucky"?
05:06<Forked>I'm hungry and not really in a good mood(or mode?) though..
05:07<DASPRiD>np, you can eat planetbaker
05:10<dihedral>morning :-)
05:10*dihedral just got to work
05:10<planetmaker>planetbaker was taken when I wanted to register it.
05:10<planetmaker>morning dihedral
05:11<DASPRiD>dihedral, morning ;>
05:11<DASPRiD>planetmaker, poor dude :(
05:12<planetmaker>alas. planetmaker is just as fine :)
05:12<Forked>what about planettaker?
05:12<planetmaker>nah... that doesn't fit :)
05:13<planetmaker>rather create than just take :)
05:15<dihedral>planetenscheisser :-D
05:15<dihedral>ala goldesel :-P
05:17<planetmaker> <-- @ dih
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05:35<DASPRiD>"The Drop Tower is a symbol of the local aerospace industry." Das war Englisch. <-- für wie dumm halten die die leute? :P
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05:51<dihedral>"Toyland is not a feature, it's a bug" <- lol
05:55<dihedral> <- now that is just darn hilarious petern ;-)
05:55<dihedral>that really cracks me up
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06:27<Ammler>that is indeed rofl
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06:34<Forked>I'm building the win32 now :\
06:37<planetmaker> <-- dihedral , you got the attribution of the quotation wrong.
06:37<Forked>it wasn't audigex that wrote it.. if it is the post I think it is :)
06:38<planetmaker> <-- hehe @ petern - there's obviously an incorrectly adjusted irony detector :D
06:39<planetmaker>Forked: yes.
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06:46<dihedral>planetmaker, why?
06:47<planetmaker>dihedral: look at whom you quoted and at whom you claim you quoted
06:47<dihedral>i just clicked the 'quote' button
06:47<dihedral>bug in phpbb i take it :-P
06:47<planetmaker>wrong one? :)
06:48<planetmaker>dunno then. Just telling :)
06:48<dihedral>in the 'reply' view, i highlighted the part i wanted to quote and clicked 'quote'
06:48<dihedral>but it's fixed
06:49<planetmaker>? you always have to click "quote" in the correct posting
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06:51<planetmaker>btw, is here someone who owns a mac version of grfcodec and nforenum (working on OSX 10.4)?
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06:51<planetmaker>making of them is a bit tedious... I first need to make a new(er) make :O
06:52<Ammler>and boost ;-)
06:52<planetmaker>well... yeah.
06:52<planetmaker>that worked somehow.
06:52<planetmaker>seems like I got those paths correct :)
06:52<planetmaker>but I only have make 3.80 and nforenum needs 3.81.
06:53<planetmaker>and making of that kinda fails
06:53<planetmaker>or at least make check returns two errors, so I'm not daring enough to make install :)
06:53<planetmaker>I asked the gnu guys about that, but no reply so far :)
06:55<DaleStan>I thought boost didn't use make. And if either nforenum or grfcodec have a make check or a make install, I didn't write them.
06:55<planetmaker>DaleStan: not boost
06:55<planetmaker>but I need to make nforenum and grfcodec
06:55<planetmaker>and nforenum requires make 3.81
06:56<planetmaker>at least it tells me that. And I'm not make guru enough to mess with the make file
06:58<Forked>D:/compile/msys/home/kjetil/32bit/src/video/dedicated_v.cpp: In function `void DedicatedHandleKeyInput()':
06:58<Forked>D:/compile/msys/home/kjetil/32bit/src/video/dedicated_v.cpp:224: warning: unused variable '__ct_assert__'
06:58<Forked>does this matter? :\
06:59<planetmaker>doesn't matter. But it's not a good sign :)
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07:00<Forked>was just the Windows binaries thing peter responded to :p
07:01<@Rubidium>that doesn't matter; it's a compile time assert to make sure some buffer is always big enough
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07:29<De_ghosty>32bit xp is impossible to work on 1gig images
07:32<De_ghosty>exactly what i said
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07:33<planetmaker>hm... no, it's not nforenum, it's upx which requires it - which is a pre-requisite for nforenum. Mixed that up. Well...
07:33<@petern>it doesn't need upx
07:34<planetmaker>arg. grfcodec
07:34*planetmaker is in a state of confusion :S
07:34<@petern>grfcodec doesn't need upx
07:34<planetmaker>making it?
07:34<@petern>or did you mean grfcodec is a prerequisite for nforenum?
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07:36<planetmaker>~/ottd/grfcodec ingo$ make
07:36<planetmaker>[STRIP/UPX] grfmrgc.bin
07:36<planetmaker>make: upx: Command not found
07:36<planetmaker>make: *** [grfmrgc.bin] Error 127
07:36<@petern>it's built grfcodec by then
07:37<planetmaker>unfortunately a segfaulting one.
07:37<@petern>upx won't help that
07:37<planetmaker>oh, ok.
07:37<Ammler>planetmaker: try only grfcodec
07:37<planetmaker>I thought I first should try to get all make errors straightened :)
07:37<planetmaker>Ammler: yeah... that doesn't complain
07:37<Ammler>make grfcodec, afaik
07:38<@Rubidium> ;)
07:38<Ammler>you need the other tools?
07:39<planetmaker>Ammler: not necessarily
07:39<planetmaker>just wanted to have them to play with it
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07:39<@petern>Rubidium ahhaha
07:39<planetmaker>hehe @ Rubidium :)
07:40<Ammler>aren't those tools almost obsolete now?
07:40<Ammler>like converting exe2grf and such?
07:40<planetmaker>are they? what shall I use instead?
07:40<Ammler>just nforrenum and grfcodec
07:41<planetmaker>that requires grfcodec to work in the first place
07:42<Ammler>so you should not "make" all tools in grfcodec, just "make grfcodec"
07:42<Ammler>(did you read 0compile.txt?)
07:44<planetmaker>well. Sort of yes
07:44<@petern>heh, stupid content questions now :/
07:45<planetmaker>Ammler: but what can I learn from that file, if I get a segfault for my grfcodec binary when using it...
07:45<planetmaker>or rather no nfo output for your advanced lumbermill, but only a pcx - or is that right?
07:48<planetmaker>works :)
07:48<planetmaker>Just looking in the wrong place. And initially (stupid, stupid!) I ran it on the tar instead of the grf
07:48<planetmaker>sorry for bothering you all with a non-existing problem ;)
07:49<Ammler>well, at first, I would use the source instead decode a grf ;-)
07:49<planetmaker>like psychologists: good that we talked about it ;)
07:49<planetmaker>Ammler: yes. I decoded it.
07:49<planetmaker>not encode :)
07:49<Ammler>decoded grf != source
07:49<planetmaker>yes, I know
07:50<planetmaker>But I needed something simple to test the binary on :)
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08:44<batti5>can anybody help me whit grf encodeing problem
08:45<batti5>Fatal Error (47): Offset 5: Invalid property 01
08:45<Ammler>hehe, and all here knows your code
08:46<batti5>then what can i do?
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08:54<batti5>can anybody fix this? please
09:08<batti5>PCX file is not a 256 colour file! how can i make it?
09:14<planetmaker>batti5: save it as one. Your graphics app should do that for youi
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09:21*worldemar is happying his birthday
09:21<SmatZ>congratulations worldemar
09:22<@petern>happying? heh
09:22<MrFrans>Happy Birthday worldemar
09:22<planetmaker>congratz, worldemar
09:22<worldemar>petern: yep, happyeiouying
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09:28<planetmaker>hm... I just wonder: is it possible to have a dedicated server download missing grfs automatically, provided they're available on bananas?
09:29<planetmaker>or to obtain them on a server?
09:29<planetmaker>openttd --help doesn't give me any hint...
09:30<+glx>use the console
09:31<+glx>I don't know exactly the commands but they exist
09:31*planetmaker goes looking.
09:31<@Rubidium>no; a server can't load a savegame with missing newgrfs, so there's real way to get the missing newgrfs into the commands to get the newgrfs
09:32<planetmaker>say again, Rubidium ?
09:32<planetmaker>missing a "no"?
09:32<Ammler>planetmaker: as you can't start a save, you don't have a console
09:33<@Rubidium>yes, I missed a "no"
09:33<planetmaker>hm... a pity actually...
09:33<Ammler>Rubidium: something like a parameter ""--autodownload" ?
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09:33<@Rubidium>Ammler: that's too complex
09:34<planetmaker>in conjunction with -g <savegame> ?
09:34<Ammler>hmm, so starting a plain new map
09:34<Ammler>then console update all
09:34<Ammler>then load the save
09:35<+glx>but you can download them using the console before trying to load the savegame
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09:38<planetmaker>glx: I can only update to the newest version. A deprecated version might not be availble then, I guess
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09:40<Ammler>can't you select by md5?
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09:42<Ammler>and if you select all, you download also crap ;-)
09:43*planetmaker thinks the wiki needs an update on that part :)
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09:44*planetmaker goes adding a few lines
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09:56*DASPRiD goes removing a few of planetmaker's few lines
09:56<planetmaker>wiki updated.
09:56<DASPRiD>wiki reverted.
09:56*planetmaker kicks DASPRiD for starting a pointless edit war
09:58<Brokkoli>openttd seems to leak some memory?
09:58<Sacro>more than likely
09:58<Brokkoli>when i startet it was about 80 mb.. now its 300
09:59<Brokkoli>without building new things
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09:59<@Rubidium>reckon that isn't a linux build then ;)
09:59<DASPRiD>300mb is much.. but not so much :)
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10:00<Sacro>it's impossible
10:01<Sacro>it's less than 1b
10:01<Sacro>unless you mean Mb or even MB
10:02<Sacro>mb should be a kickable unit
10:02<Sacro>it's never useable
10:02<@Rubidium>yeah ;)
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10:03<@Rubidium>and everything related to mb should be kickable too, right?
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10:03<@petern>chuck norris?
10:07<Brokkoli>you know "what" mb
10:07<@petern>michael blunck?
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10:08-!-Rubidium was kicked from #openttd by petern [as per my request]
10:09<worldemar>kickable Rubidium >_<
10:09-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*] by petern
10:10<Brokkoli>300 michael blunck?
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10:10<Brokkoli>would be many newgrfs :)
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10:10<worldemar>hordes of michael blunk... just like lemmings
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10:12<@petern>oh what fun
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10:17-!-mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by DorpsGek
10:17<Brokkoli>maybe a bug: the ordering by capacity for articulated vehicles is wrong..
10:18<Brokkoli>seems like only the first part is considered?
10:19<@Rubidium>is that in trunk?
10:19<Brokkoli>no 0.7 beta
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10:20<Brokkoli>i will try the nightly
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10:22<Brokkoli>same thing there
10:23<@Rubidium>then make a bugreport @
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10:28<Brokkoli> here it is
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10:30<Ammler>you download the missing grfs from bananas after loading the save, isn't that too late?
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10:41<planetmaker> <--- hehe :) well said
10:42<batti5>any help with my grf?
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10:52<batti5>i created a grf, but its useless, what im doing wrong?
10:53<batti5>when a loaded it to openttd, it applyed, but i cant find it in-game
10:53<planetmaker>batti5: I propose you have a look at other, very simple but similar grfs. Like e.g. the hover bus which was recently made available.
10:53<planetmaker>or DJN's MX-3000 grf.
10:54<planetmaker>yours should work pretty similar then.
10:55<planetmaker>decode them, look at the source and compare with yours. Or just copy it and put in your stats and pics
10:59<batti5>but my stripe dont have numbers above
11:00<planetmaker>... and?
11:02<planetmaker>or rather: so what?
11:08<batti5>somethigs wrong
11:10<planetmaker>obviously you use a) less sprites than declared and b) a wrong palette. Get one of the two palettes OpenTTD / TTDP support.
11:10<batti5>i have one
11:10<batti5>but what i should do with it?
11:11<planetmaker>that said I really urge you: get the mx3000. Decode it. Replace a single image. Re-encode it, see whether it works. Change single stats. re-eoncode it, see whether it works. Get it working step by step
11:11<planetmaker>Other than that: I've no idea. I never did any newgrf things.
11:11<Ammler>batti5: t<->p ;-)
11:12<Ammler>nforenum has no errors/warnings?
11:13<@petern>stripe -> sprite...
11:15<batti5>the le5100.pcx is not accepted by encoder
11:15<batti5>wrong pallete
11:15<batti5>how to fix it?
11:16<@petern>apply the correct palette
11:16<planetmaker>well. Open in your graphics programme and save it properly? I guess the advice doesn't change, Regardless how many times you ask that question.
11:17<batti5>and how to do it with gimp?
11:17<@Rubidium>planetmaker: at a given threshold the advice becomes an eery silence
11:17<Ammler>if you use GIMP, you could download a palette template from forums, afaik.
11:18<planetmaker>Rubidium: yes. :) I know.
11:18<planetmaker>That statement was about the "border indicator" ;)
11:18<batti5>and? how to importit to gimp?
11:18<Ammler>did you find it?
11:19<Ammler>there is no howto there?
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11:20<batti5>i open mystripe in png in gime, and now?
11:21<Ammler>batti5: t<->p ;-)
11:23<planetmaker>[17:13] <petern> stripe -> sprite... <--- thank you actually. :)
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11:25<batti5>Loading sprites/le5100.pcx
11:25<batti5>Error: Unrecognized palette, aborting.
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11:27<batti5>this way, it isent going to be any romanian train set.
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11:30<batti5>but a pallete is in png?
11:31<Ammler>where did you find the palette?
11:32<batti5>whare can i find the real one?
11:37<batti5>whare can i find a tt palette?
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11:39<Aali>wow, thats a new one, someone trying to apply a patch using the in-game patch command :D
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11:42<batti5>whare can i find a tt palette?
11:43<el_en>english only
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11:46<Brokkoli>i dont know
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11:48<Brokkoli>maybe extract it from a pcx
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11:50<planetmaker>yeah. from a working grf :)
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11:52<Ammler>batti5: you get more help on tt-forums as there aren't many grf authors around here... (working with GIMP)
11:53<Ammler>or maybe #tycoon
11:54-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*@*.KCOM.COM] by petern
11:54<batti5>don`t get it i convert the palette but its still 32bit
11:55<planetmaker>sure you need to convert the thing to 256 colours.
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12:27<@petern>chuck norris?
12:27<@petern>what would
12:27<@petern>brian boitano do?
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12:28<Sacro>if he where here right now
12:30<Mastor>ppl, can some one help me, where i can download all grf files for oTTD in 1 archive file?
12:30<@petern>you can't
12:32<@Belugas>Mastor, there are no packs that gather all the grf files produced by the whole community
12:32<@Belugas>it's not a centralized process
12:33<Ammler>Mastor: but you can select all grfs and download them in one go...
12:34<Mastor>Ammler, where?
12:34<dihedral>Ammler, that are not ALL grf's!!!
12:34<Ammler>with 0.7 beta
12:34<dihedral>those are merely all uploaded to bananas
12:34<dihedral>if he wants _all_ newGRFs, he will have a LOT of searching and downloading to do :-P
12:35<Mastor>bb all, thnx
12:35<@Belugas>whhooooo... that's a lot of work....
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12:35<Ammler>how many are ALL ;-)
12:35<@Belugas>much more than 1, for sure
12:36<@Belugas>and i believe much more than the amount of bananas's content too...
12:36<dihedral>and much more than OpenTTD can load
12:36<@Belugas>if OpenTTD gives you an error, JUST DARE FILLING UP A BUG REPORT!
12:38<Sacro>heh, all grf files?
12:38<Sacro>you need to mirror bananas, grfcrawler
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12:38<Sacro>watch out for eis_os as his tunnels GRF is illegal to use with !ttdpatch
12:38<Ammler>that ia around 50%
12:42<@Belugas>empiric data? hard fact number? cristal ball gazing? approximation after smoking in the boys room?
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12:42<De_ghosty>tunnel grf?
12:43<De_ghosty>is there signal in them?
12:43<Ammler>Belugas: "around" :P
12:43*glx slaps De_ghosty
12:43<@Belugas>of course, there are signals in them. what you think
12:44<De_ghosty>it could be bendable tunnels :o
12:44<De_ghosty>or tunnels that can change level undergound :o
12:44<@Belugas>well... ther are bent and illuminated with signals. I though everybody knew
12:45<dihedral>why de people try to place signals in tunnels themselves?
12:45<dihedral>would it not be an approach to have a fixed distance for 'signals' in tunnels?
12:45<dihedral>that just work like the fake signals in depots
12:45<De_ghosty>like 1 tile?
12:46<dihedral>like set in your advanced settings
12:46<De_ghosty>but what if i need to change it to make it denser?
12:46<+glx>"dynamic" signal distance depending on train length ?
12:46<dihedral>or a tunnel options window :-P
12:46-!-Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry
12:47<@Belugas>ctrl-clicking the tunnel entrance!
12:47<dihedral>signal distance :-P
12:47<PierreW>there are signals in tunnels?
12:47<dihedral>sure there are, just not in the tunnels in OpenTTD
12:48<Ammler>Chunnel or so
12:48<PierreW>u r zo teh fun :D
12:48*dihedral extends his ignore list
12:48<De_ghosty>arg hard drives are so slow
12:48<De_ghosty>it's already raid 0
12:48<De_ghosty>i need raptors
12:48<Ammler>maybe the hard disk signal is red
12:48<dihedral>yeah - raid 0 is soooo good! :-P
12:49<De_ghosty>until one of em failz
12:49*PierreW is happy about that
12:49<De_ghosty>you know how we can hack signal in tunnel?
12:50<De_ghosty>wait nvm
12:50<PierreW>just do 2 tile tunnels, 1 tile track, 2 tile tunnel, 1 tile track [ ... ] then you have each 3rd tile a signal and alot of tunnels
12:50<De_ghosty>monstrous effort
12:50<De_ghosty>and u can't build over that
12:51<@Belugas>petern: Swallow asks for re-opening the FS#2685. I think it should only be done when a real grf is built. But he might be right, if i understand his logic correctly. It is your call to deny of accept the reopening
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause><dihedral> would it not be an approach to have a fixed distance for 'signals' in tunnels? <- the initial problem is to get trains to stop at any point that is in the tunnel. that is where custom bridgeheads failed
13:11<dihedral>that is good to know
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>through the whole wormhole journey, the train stays on the same tile (the wormhole exit), and the signal check only works when changing tiles
13:11<dihedral>how then is determined when the train exists?
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>the train is on the exit tile, with a huge offset
13:12<dihedral>exists the wormhole that is
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>when the offset hits 0, the exit is reached
13:12<dihedral>extending the signal check to offsets? :-P
13:12*dihedral hides
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>my suggestion would be to make the "vehicleEnterTile" functions z-aware
13:13<@Belugas>undo the wormhole code
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>and introduce "wormhole" tiles
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13:15<Ammler>if you introduce signals in tunnels, we will also lose another "game" part.
13:16*Belugas cries the lost game part
13:16<Ammler>same with distant-join and station walk.
13:16<@Belugas>there are already signals on the tunnel
13:16<@Belugas>just that nobody seems them
13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15591 /trunk/src/lang/ (17 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-27 18:16:01
13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 6 changed by Ludslad (6)
13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 4 fixed by ThomasA (4)
13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 4 fixed by habell (4)
13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 fixed by jpx_ (1)
13:17<dihedral>Ammler, what would you lose?
13:18<Ammler>building hubs would be quite easy with those tunnels
13:18<Ammler>and boring.
13:18<dihedral>and what would you lose?
13:18<@Belugas>game part
13:18<@Belugas>can't yu read dihedral?
13:18<@Belugas>seems so logic to me!
13:19<dihedral>does it really? or are you just being ironic?
13:19<@Belugas>don't smile. i'm highly ironic
13:19<dihedral>thought so :-P
13:19<Ammler>(me isn't)
13:19<dihedral>Ammler, we know you are not, just i fail to see which part you lose
13:19*Belugas thinks dihedral starts to know the whale a bit
13:19<dihedral>i dont get the loss part
13:20<dihedral>uh... uh... now i need to find a new spy :-D
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>he is doing what all people do, trying to protect his work he spent on designing complex junctions, where tunnels create the problem of long signal distances
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>which would become (partly) obsolete
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>but you could give the same argument for PBS
13:21<dihedral>funny - i recall Ammler being very much after pbs
13:21<Ammler>pbs rocks.
13:21<dihedral>then signals in tunnels will also
13:22<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: you can't replace hubs with pbs.
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13:22<@Belugas>still... naaaa all of them... Crosby, Still, nash AND Young
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>"Gleich drei Dinge auf einmal? Das geht nun wirklich nicht!"
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13:24<dihedral>Ammler: what exactly would be your fear if there were signals in tunnels?
13:24<Ammler>[19:18] <Belugas> can't yu read dihedral?
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13:25<dihedral>Ammler, the magic word here is _exactly_ - give me an example! something that i might understand, other than your 'lose a game part'
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13:25<Ammler>but well, there might be other things you can looking for then.
13:25<planetmaker>Ammler: definitely: having signals in tunnels doesn't hurt. But mentioning the reasons why it would be cool, is a quietable offence here :D
13:25<@Belugas>[13:20] <@Belugas> don't smile. i'm highly ironic
13:25<dihedral>i did not want to turn it into a - quote Belugas fight :-P
13:25<Ammler>planetmaker: that is the point, it doesn't hurg
13:26<Ammler>it will make building networks much easier
13:26<planetmaker>so what?
13:26*dihedral is curious
13:26<Ammler>that is fine, indeed.
13:26<dihedral>not in the dog-way curious...
13:27*dihedral will not go around sniffing peoples rear ends :-P
13:27*planetmaker is glad that this anal issue is now solved
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>"do not abbreviate 'analytic' after the 'l'", my maths teacher said :p
13:30<planetmaker>irrespective of features this game will never be too easy nor too difficult
13:31<planetmaker>it will just be different
13:31<dihedral>"different" is the word my mother uses for something she does not like :-D
13:32<planetmaker>I usually use it in its original sense :)
13:32<Ammler>dihedral: I am different ;-)
13:33<@Belugas>[13:28] <Ammler> that is fine, indeed. <-- now... i am puzzled... It is fine to loose game part???
13:34<Ammler>I tried to be ironic, too :P
13:34<@Belugas>different is oftenly used to point to gays in here...
13:34<@Belugas>Ammler, my friend... you need practice!
13:34<Ammler>Belugas: THAT doesn't matter in this channel
13:34<dihedral>Ammler, if you want us to understand what you dont like, being ironic might not be all too helpful right now
13:35<Ammler>dihedral: never said, I do not like it, did I?
13:35*Ammler read back...
13:35<Ammler>I just told we lose a game part
13:36<@Belugas>well... that, in my book, is directly connected to a bad/sad/unwanted event...
13:36<planetmaker>well... I read it as such. "building hubs would be quite easy with those tunnels
13:36<planetmaker>[19:18] <Ammler> and boring." - but I might interpret that wrongly :)
13:36<Ammler>Belugas: sometimes you need to pay for new (mostly) better things
13:36<dihedral>i still dont get it! i mean - where is the loss if junctions for a change dont need doubled tunnels no more?
13:37<Ammler>as it was with station walk
13:37<planetmaker>dih: noobs can build a hub withouth knowing about signal distance :P
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13:37<@Belugas>Ammler: agreed. this is why the distance factor has been introduced to noise airport
13:37<dihedral>seriously - you think noobs can build junctions as exist in openttdcoop just because there are signals in tunnels?
13:37<@Belugas>give on one hand, take on the other
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13:38<dihedral>Belugas, just dont cut off the entire arm :-D
13:38<energetic> versus v2:
13:38<planetmaker>dihedral: not quite. But same with stations and path signals: now noobs - who know path signals - can build somewhat decent functions; something they couldn't before
13:39<energetic>(cities are rendered in black text, and these two icons enable you to filter on towns/cities only
13:39<dihedral>makes Ammler appear as less of a junction-builder?
13:39<dihedral>he feels he loses his 'status'?
13:40<Ammler>wow, I have a "status" :-o
13:40<dihedral>it's in quotes :-P
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13:40<Ammler>hmm :-(
13:41<dihedral>anyway - the 'noob' argument is pretty poor imo (and i doubt it was meant seriously, but i could be wrong there) :-P
13:41<Ammler>you can take a junction from and use in coop games then.
13:42<Eddi|zuHause><Belugas> Ammler: agreed. this is why the distance factor has been introduced to noise airport <- i was thinking about this, what about making the reduction non-linear. e.g. 10 tiles for the first reduction, 5 tiles for the second reduction, 3 tiles for the third reduction, 2 tiles for the fourth, etc.
13:42<@Belugas>well... noobs ask for funny stuff... "where Can I download all grfs" :P
13:42<dihedral>oh - so you would fear openttdcoop would be less special, Ammler ?
13:42<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, anything is possible. If you come up with a decent design, and SmatZ agrees to it, why not ;)
13:43<Ammler>well, the hubs is 1. thing what coop makes
13:43<dihedral>if that is your impression about openttdcoop, then that is pretty sad :-P
13:43<dihedral>is openttdcoop not more about a community - working together, completing bigger maps, having a structure in building?
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>the other problem i had with airports was in maps with few big cities and lots of small villages. the city authority needs a way to overrule the neighbouring villages' noise concerns
13:44<dihedral>is that not more important than having the biggest hub?
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't know how to properly solve that
13:44<dihedral>size does not matter you know!
13:44<De_ghosty> yes it does
13:44<Sacro>dihedral: only people with small penii say that
13:44<De_ghosty>just make a bigger city have more radius influence
13:44<dihedral>Sacro, in this case: with small hubs ;-)
13:44<@petern>What's a "penii" ?
13:45<Ammler>dihedral: I was speaking about the coop games
13:45<Ammler>not about openttdcoop as community
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13:45<dihedral>so you just like bragging with the huge junctions in the games ;)
13:45<Eddi|zuHause><Sacro> dihedral: only people with small penii say that <- if you have "penii", you have worse problems than size :p
13:45<Ammler>just go to the archive and check which parts are mostly as scren
13:46<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, LOL
13:46<De_ghosty>I wants signal in tunnels :o
13:46<dihedral>De_ghosty, code it
13:46<De_ghosty>i was suggesting you guys do it :D
13:46<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: my underwear fits like a glove
13:46<dihedral>or, follow some train tracks into some tunnel and wait for the next train
13:46<De_ghosty>it is a glove!!
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>where is this "someone" guy when you need him?
13:47<dihedral>anybody aint here either
13:47<De_ghosty>i nominate dihedral
13:47<dihedral>do what you want
13:48<De_ghosty>I WILL
13:48<dihedral>just spare us the details
13:48<De_ghosty>i can't
13:48<De_ghosty>i have to let you know every little part
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>De_ghosty: above i wrote exactly what needs to be done
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>just start...
13:48<De_ghosty>yea i saw wormhole :)
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>"wormhole" is just short for "bridge or tunnel"
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13:49<Eddi|zuHause>(both are exactly the same for vehicle movement purposes)
13:50<@Belugas>[13:47] <De_ghosty> I wants signal in tunnels :o <--- it's already there, you just do not see them
13:50<De_ghosty>in theory
13:50<@Belugas>it's a tunnel!!!
13:50<De_ghosty>that's not true
13:51<De_ghosty>the train don't see em either
13:51<@Belugas>that is another matter. you jsut asked for signals :P
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>"if there is a tree in the wood, and nobody sees it, is the cat dead?"
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13:53<@Belugas>my cat never roam in any wood
13:53<dihedral>Belugas, your cat is too huge to fit past the trees :-P
13:56<frosch123>dihedral: no, the wood is always covered by masses of snow
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>the answer is: you can't see the wood because of all the trees!
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>or: 42, depending on your personal faith
13:58<@Belugas>snow :( ...
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>no snow :(
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>=> rain :(
14:00<planetmaker>=> rain
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14:09*planetmaker hands Belugas a few warm, sunny days.
14:09<frosch123>next time "ssaatpanmaa" is enough :)
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14:10<planetmaker>oh he went :P
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>he said something?
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>right... i set him on ignore right after his first line in this channel...
14:13<frosch123>hello alf
14:14<Wolf01>I think I'll build one of that paper yamaha bikes ->
14:37<energetic>*checks channel.... hey, this is ottd
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15:12*dihedral has the impression some certain devs will be contacted by Sir koZ again!!
15:12<dihedral>people like Belugas maybe!
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15:13<@Belugas>\he did
15:13<dihedral>poor you
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15:24<dihedral>this must be the best post ever wrt patching the source
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15:26<Ammler>hehe, someone already posted just the screen.
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15:27<dihedral>i think it's just awsome
15:27<dihedral>i'd nearly go as far as saying that made my day
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15:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15592 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix: Refit-info in purchase list did only check the first articulated part.
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15:59<@petern>good job that stuff is cached ;)
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16:06<frosch123>what is cached?
16:08<planetmaker>I think it was our red gem who mentioned it first :)
16:09<@petern>hmm, dunno, i thought it was something to do with sorting :o
16:10<frosch123>no, that task is too much work for me :)
16:15<apo_>or starting another company to transfer money to your own company <--- it's possible to transfer money?
16:16<Yexo>apo_: yes, but only if it's enabled
16:16<planetmaker>hm... the "Station name" of deleted waypoints doesn't get gray like deleted station names do. Is that intended?
16:16<Yexo>on most servers it's disabled because of cheating
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16:17<apo_>economy.give_money <--- this?
16:17<Yexo>apo_: I think so
16:18<apo_>That's enabled
16:18<apo_>So how do I give money?
16:18<Yexo>open the clientlist
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>on the client list
16:18<Yexo>then hold your mouse on one of the clients
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16:18<apo_>Cool, thanks.
16:18<Yexo>planetmaker: are you sure? The waypoint name gets gray here when I delete the waypoint
16:18<dihedral>is that not documented in the wiki?
16:18*apo_ will try it when he gets another player <_<
16:18<planetmaker>not here.
16:18<apo_>dihedral: I didn't find it anywhere.
16:19*apo_ searched for transfer money =P
16:19<dihedral>apo: if i find in 30 seconds, what do i get
16:19<planetmaker>playing on the PS. Just tested :)
16:19*Yexo just tested on 15590 in sp
16:19<apo_>dihedral: 1000k if you find my server in 30s as well :P
16:20<dihedral>having an issue setting up a server eh?
16:20<planetmaker>Yexo: the background gets gray. But NOT the text
16:20*apo_ ? Nah. The server's running.
16:20<planetmaker>For stations the text gets gray
16:20<Yexo>planetmaker: ah, I can confirm that :)
16:20<planetmaker>from white
16:20<dihedral>apo_, then you dont need help with it :-P
16:20<planetmaker>I never play with backgrounds for signs :)
16:21<planetmaker>those are always transparent :)
16:22<Yexo>planetmaker: on the other hand, waypoint names are always white,and not in the company color as station names
16:23<planetmaker>hm... yeah. I wonder why :)
16:23<OsteHovel>How is Openttd's compile system made?
16:23<planetmaker>OTOH: deleted station names have no company colour either. Just gray.
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>it was written with an editor, OsteHovel.
16:23<OsteHovel>are it made using standar autoconf, automake ? or by hand?
16:23<planetmaker>There the text gets the colour of the background when transparency changes
16:23<planetmaker>The same could be done for waypoints, I guess...
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause>OsteHovel: by hand
16:24<Yexo>hmm, it's also possible to click on already deleted waypoints and change their name
16:24<Yexo>same for stations btw
16:24<planetmaker>oh :)
16:24<planetmaker>but that doesn't matter, I guess
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16:31<Eddi|zuHause>hm... are the opengfx maglev tracks wider than the original?
16:32<Eddi|zuHause> <- like in the screenshot here?
16:34<dihedral>oh my
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17:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15593 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Change: the background of the the waypoint sign is now in the company color.
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17:28<planetmaker>ty, Yexo :)
17:28<Yexo>the text is still always white though
17:29<planetmaker>hm... then I won't see the change :)
17:29*frosch123 likes the different colour
17:30<frosch123>planetmaker: use white company colour :p
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17:30<planetmaker>frosch123: uh... what I noted is that the waypoint colour with transparent background doesnt' change between existing and deleted ones
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17:30<planetmaker>the colour of the text itself
17:31<planetmaker>e.g. I don't see whether it's deleted or not.
17:31<planetmaker>of course because I play with transparent signs :)
17:32<Yexo>planetmaker: that's because the color of the text (with invisible signs) is the color of the background (without invisible signs)
17:32<Yexo>waypoints overrule that, by always using white text
17:32<planetmaker>seems like :)
17:33<Yexo>planetmaker: you already play with client-side patches, right?
17:33<Yexo> <- second part is in trunk now, if you apply the first part the text will be black/gray for non-deleted/deleted
17:33<planetmaker>he... well, yes, I do have some I like :)
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17:35<planetmaker>:) thank you, Yexo
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18:00<Tim>uh, midnight
18:00<el_en>ok, go on.
18:00<Tim>I just suceeded in drawing my first train sprite and coding it into an actually working grf :)
18:01<frosch123>you are lucky that batti is not around
18:01<Tim>Wait... the guy with the aeroplanes?
18:01<dihedral>batti has been long on my ignore list
18:01<Tim>That's like everywhere in life, you only remember the names of the bad kids :D
18:02<Tim>Damn... the other views will get a lot more complicated...
18:02<Tim>Front view is kinda easy :D
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18:27<arex\>My trains are too old. Can I autoreplace them with the same type?
18:28<Yexo>yes, enable autoreplace in the advanced settings window
18:28<frosch123>"autorenew" :p
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19:02<dihedral>sorry - this is in german:
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>typical law-german ;)
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>but where is esterházy? sounds hungarian
19:08<+tokai>wtf. is KIKA-Möbel?
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>maybe IKEA is called differently in austria :p
19:13<Brokkoli>look here:öbelhaus)
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19:25<planetmaker> <-- IRC links need updating (they point to freenode)
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19:55<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: apparently nobody cared in over 2 years :P
19:55<+glx>cery typical
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21:35<Hawson>'evening all
21:35<Hawson>I've been happily pulling down SVN updates for the last several months, but in the last week or so, I've hit some compile problems
21:36<Hawson>The relevant bits are here:
21:36<Hawson>This is on a Linux system (Gentoo), and configure was run with no special options
21:39<Sacro_>hmm, strange
21:39<Hawson>just started in the last few days, and has persisted.
21:40<Hawson>I've hit compile bugs with SVN before, but they have been quickly cleared up in a revision or two
21:40<Brokkoli>make clean ?
21:41<Hawson>Brokkoli: did that
21:41<Hawson>and mrproper
21:41<Hawson>and re-ran configure
21:41<Hawson>I suppose I could check out the source again...
21:41<Brokkoli>think so too
21:41<Brokkoli>the trunk is ok
21:42<Hawson>hmm...I guess I get to download all the extensions again, eh?
21:42*Hawson nods
21:43<Brokkoli>you don't have to delete them..
21:43<Hawson>can I just drop them back in place in the new build tree?
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21:44<Aali>why would you keep newgrfs in your source tree in the first place? :P
21:44<Hawson>Aali: because I just run eveything out of trunk/bin. :-)
21:44<Brokkoli>newgrfs are no source files
21:44<Brokkoli>so it should be no problem
21:44<Aali>still, newgrfs should go in the global data dir
21:45<Aali>so you dont have to move them around for different installs
21:45<Hawson>if I'm going to rebuild every few days... <shrug>
21:45<Hawson>Aali: all I have is the SVN build.
21:45<Hawson>as this is all on a personal laptop, no need to do anything else.
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21:46<Aali>yeah, but if you put the newgrfs in ~/.openttd/data they'll be visible no matter where you start the openttd binary
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21:46<Aali>there's really no downside
21:46<Hawson>Aali: <nod>
21:46<Hawson>I'll do that
21:46<Hawson>I've had no need to before, so never bothered
21:50<Hawson>another question, if you don't mind. I notice in SVN that in the World Generation window, there's options for map edges, but are always greyed out.
21:58<Aali>you have to enable the setting first
21:59<Aali>(under advanced settings)
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23:38<Sacro_>Evening zodttd
23:39<zodttd>Hi Sacro_. Hoping perhaps Darkvater isn't idle atm.
23:41<Sacro_>He'lll be asleep
23:41<zodttd>Ah ok. Snap. :(
23:41<Sacro_>he'll be getting up soon
23:44<zodttd>Great. I don't know the heirarchy of the development team at OpenTTD anymore. I remember speaking to Darkvater in the past though. Just wanted to talk about a current OpenTTD port of mine.
23:46<Aali>perhaps you should just say what you want to say
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 28 00:00:18 2009