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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-04

---Logopened Wed Mar 04 00:00:30 2009
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02:43<Yexo>good morning
02:48<@petern>how did yapf get in? :p
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02:50<Noldo>petern: it's a mess?
02:52<Alystair>how do donations work for OTD?
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03:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15609 /trunk/src/yapf/ (13 files): -Fix: Code style...
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03:06<@petern>Comment style is a different matter, though...
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03:36*dihedral hides
03:37<Timitry>Just a question... In this thread: it has been proposed that OpenTTD gets a new defautl background. Now i'm wondering... Is there any chance that could happen, if the new background would just be amazing (and without newGrfs, too)?
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03:50<dihedral>that would be something either answered in the other thread where someone tried to make a competition, or answered by the dev's
03:50<dihedral>however, you can replace that intro game yourself in your own client ;-)
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04:03<Timitry>Ups, disconnect... Anyone wrote anything on that Intro-Screen topic here? :)
04:03<@petern>only that it's been proposed before and there wasn't a new one
04:03<Timitry>dihedral: Yes, i know that, and i was hoping for an answer of the devs :)
04:03<@petern>so i wouldn't worry about it
04:04<Timitry>So there won't be a new one? :(
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04:11<dihedral>what is wrong with the current one?
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04:13<Timitry>1. It's quite empty at higher resolutions, 2. we had it a long time now, and it kinda gets boring, 3. it could show more great features :)
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04:15<dihedral>4. how long do you actually spend looking at the intro game?
04:16<dihedral>it's a intro background to the game, not a movie
04:17<Timitry>Still it could be made more interesting
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04:18<Timitry>And consider new players, the first thing they see of OpenTTD is the background, which could possibly show them a lot of the possibilities they have with that great game
04:19<Progman>Timitry: iirc the mainmenu background game is used for old savegame checks
04:20<Yexo>Progman: even if that was true, it wouldn't matter
04:20<Progman>to automatically get a check if old savegames can still be loaded
04:20<Yexo>having another default intro game doesn't mean the current intro game is thrown away
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04:29<dihedral>Timitry: what other games have you played in the past 2 years?
04:30<Timitry>Well, couldn't that also still be checked by just loading that savegame? Or one just replaces the opntitle.dat with the old one... Question is, how often are changes being made which can possibly break savegame compatibility, and how often do you need to check if the old one does still work?
04:30<Timitry>Quite a few... Why?
04:30<dihedral>tell me about their background of the main menu
04:30<dihedral>or at least think about it ;-)
04:31<dihedral>the intro screen is not there to help noobs
04:31<dihedral>that's is what a wiki is there for
04:32<dihedral>+ the intro game, if it were that interesting that you could see and watch a bunch of stuff on max res, the cpu usage is also something to consider!
04:33<dihedral>hey, openttd can run on a low-cpu machine, only issue, the intro game needs 4 times as much!
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04:37<Timitry>dihedral: "tell me about their background of the main menu" ---> CSS: Just a simple picture, showing two soldiers with weapons + armor. GTA4: Showing latest news and a featured video...
04:38<Timitry>And well, the memory usage is a valid argument, i guess, but the new intro screen does not neccessarily have to be much more cpu-consuming than the old one
04:40<Ammler>Timitry: maybe the easiest would be to have a cfg setting, where you could change the intro save.
04:41<planetmaker>may the settings jungle live long and prosper :P
04:42<dihedral>hey ho pm :-)
04:43<planetmaker>good day dihedral good day all :)
04:47<dihedral>Timitry: make an intro game
04:47<dihedral>just dont be disappointed if the devs dont include it
04:51<Ammler>I liked Roujin's patch, where the menu jumps from sign to sign, nice to watch MZ games with.
04:52<Ammler>dunno, if that patch is still up2date.
04:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15610 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Change: allow loading of heightmaps and savegames (any form) that are in .tar files
04:56<Ammler>something for the cpp, planetmaker ;-)
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04:57*planetmaker hugs Rubidium
04:58<planetmaker>Ammler: well... I've no personal use for setting for different title screens
04:59<dihedral>./openttd -n <host>[:<port>][#<company>]
04:59<dihedral>i dont even see the intro game :-P
05:00<Ammler>well, me neither
05:01<Ammler>just the jumper from sign to sign was neat.
05:01<planetmaker>it's an interesting idea, yeah
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05:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15611 /trunk/src/fios.cpp: -Change: when sorting files on modification date and the modification date is equal sort on the title so reversing the sorting direction actually reverses the order the listed files
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05:55<dihedral>hihi - for the title screen - 10 ships and yapf enabled :-D
06:01<dihedral>could there be a place on bananas for 32bpp graphics?
06:02<@Rubidium>maybe in the (far) future
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>i really think, 32bpp graphics should (from a user point of view) treated like base graphics
06:05<@petern>what, all of them?
06:06<@Rubidium>yeah, and then crash OpenTTD because they haven't implemented the question mark yet
06:06<@petern>i think you mean they should be able to be used as base graphics in an obg, rather than treating them as base graphics
06:07<@petern>invalid argument
06:07<@petern>the same applies to grf base graphics
06:08<@Rubidium>trueish, but that set has sprites for everything (some black though), but I haven't seen one 'set' of 32 bpp graphics
06:08<@petern>"that" ?
06:08<@Rubidium>the only replacement check
06:09<@Rubidium>s/check/set/ ;)
06:09<@petern>i would say that a question mark sprite would get implemented pretty quickly if it was supported
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>i really mean the user interface (bananas, game setting, .obg file), not the internal handling
06:09<@petern>Eddi|zuHause: wrong
06:09<@petern>you can have 32bpp graphics to replace newgrf files too...
06:09<@petern>that wouldn't fit in with base graphics
06:10<@Rubidium>even for base graphics replacement a *real* 8bpp graphics replacement set is needed
06:11<@Rubidium>or you must find some way to make 32bpp newgrfs
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06:26*dihedral would not mind having all the tar's rather than skimming through all 200 pages of that thread....
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06:27<@Rubidium>well, quite a large amount of them won't work in stock OpenTTD
06:28<@Rubidium>then a similarly large amount won't work in that patched version
06:28<dihedral>wha't stops them from working?
06:28<@Rubidium>and another large bunch won't work in either and need egladil's version
06:28<@Rubidium>dihedral: sprites being 4 times too big/small
06:29<Noldo>are they for the zoomlevelpatch
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06:36<planetmaker>he, yeah. Seems all of them. Or at least most.
06:36<planetmaker>Dunno actually why...
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06:37<@petern>artists using 32bpp seem to believe they must use a renderer and must create giant graphics
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06:41<MrFrans>right, to big is not so much a issue, they can be easily resized. I suppose that is why they do the big render.
06:42<MrFrans>I just wish they would put some dirt on the vehicles. They all look like they just rolled out of the factory. Also very plasticy. It doesn't have to be like that.
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06:52<racetrack>I'm new here
06:52<racetrack>but finally wanted to share something I've been working on for the past few days
06:52<racetrack>still a way off from finished, but at least its demo-quality now
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06:54<racetrack>hehe yeah
06:55<dihedral>racetrack: what is your goal?
06:55<Timitry>Wow, looks good, and i certainly like it :)
06:55<racetrack>made me chuckle
06:55<planetmaker>can the trains leave on the other side?
06:55<Timitry>Was about to post that question :D
06:55<Timitry>Not yet, it seems
06:55<racetrack>dihedral: having a depot on a siding or something, drive in the bottom, get a service, leave from the top and on your way
06:56<racetrack>planetmaker, Timitry: not yet
06:56<racetrack>thats next
06:56<racetrack>turning is hardcoded into the depot code
06:56<racetrack>(quite reasonably)
06:56<Timitry>That'd be awesome...
06:56<racetrack>needs a little pathfinding on exit instead
06:56<dihedral>and following yapf?
06:56<Timitry>And then longer depots
06:56<racetrack>it'll just call "the pathfinder"
06:56<racetrack>whoever he is today
06:57<dihedral>why do you need longer depots?
06:57<racetrack>eyecandy aiui
06:57<Timitry>Else it looks ugly :)
06:57<racetrack>I don't need them
06:57<dihedral>depends on the settings
06:57<racetrack>but thats for someone else to do
06:57<dihedral>Timitry: a bunch of stuff 'looks ugly'
06:57<racetrack>with a slightly larger sprite and a run of dtdepots you could fake it
06:57<racetrack>but I don't much care about it
06:58<Timitry>If you have a 20-tile train vanishing in a 1-tile depot and then come out on the other side of it ;-) I know that's the case now, too ;)
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly is that video supposed to show?
06:58<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause: it can enter a depot from either side
06:58<racetrack>Eddi|zuHause: that you can enter a single depot from either side
06:58<racetrack>thats all I have so far
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06:59<dihedral>well.... at least you got thus far without bombarding the forums ^^
06:59<racetrack>I've been around many forums in my time
06:59<racetrack>they're all the same
06:59<racetrack>so my approach stays the same
06:59<racetrack>actually do something before you say you're going to do something :P
06:59<planetmaker>which is quite a reasonable approach :)
07:00<racetrack>I'll post about it once I have a finished patch that people can actually use
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07:00<dihedral>people should follow that approach more often
07:00<dihedral>hmmm.... i'm gonna make a patch pack... how do i compile? i cannot find the option in the tortoise menu
07:01<@Rubidium>dihedral: don't be stupid... OSX doesn't have tortoise
07:01<planetmaker>he managed somehow, though. Though I have the feeling the patches are non-conflicting ones :)
07:02<dihedral>and updated to the rev he's using
07:02<Timitry>About that eyecandy: If you got that far that a train can enter one side and leave on the other, *someone* (like always not myself :D) could make a grf which has a larger depot (already exists) and the depot as station - that way you could place a depot somewhere, and fake-depots aka stations before and after it, and you would get a long depot, which consists of 1 depot tile and a bunch of station tiles :)
07:02<racetrack>Timitry: sounds painful. go for it :)
07:03<dihedral>just so you can be lazy and not have to service your trains?
07:03<Timitry>Would probably not even be too hard... :)
07:03<Timitry>No, so it would look good
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07:05<dihedral>if you want it to look good, get some 32bpp stuff done
07:05<dihedral>or make that comic stuff for ottd
07:05<Timitry>Those two threads are exactly what i meant:
07:06<planetmaker>I also see someone got another task.
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07:06<racetrack>Timitry: yeah I saw those when I went searching before I started
07:07<racetrack>as long as depots defy the laws of physics I'll just keep using single tiles .. don't much care about pretty
07:07<racetrack>if anyone ever makes functional depots/switching yards/turntables/etc, then maybe :P
07:08<dihedral>which laws of physics are you referring to?
07:08<Timitry>Those trains just go underground in the depots :D
07:08<Timitry>make a curve and come out again :D
07:08<dihedral>tunnels dont do much different
07:09<racetrack>the ones that don't typically allow twenty billion tonnes of scrap metal to exist at a single point in space
07:09<racetrack>call me a purist if you like ;)
07:10<Timitry>afk, grabbing some food
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>"the first airport should have the full town as catchment area", "i want intercontinental airports in 1950"...
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07:13<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea how to reply to that
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07:22<dihedral>@seen celestar
07:22<@DorpsGek>dihedral: celestar was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 4 days, 22 hours, 23 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <Celestar> even debug outputs are stderr aren'T they?
07:29<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: sometimes silence is the best answer :P
07:34<dihedral>planetmaker: or "not in the near future"
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07:39<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: or just point out distant join stations.
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07:47<[wito]>Eddi|zuHause: actually, I sort of agree;
07:47<[wito]>airport progression is a bit slow
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>that's part of the point of aircraft...
07:48<[wito]>I'd go so far as to say that it might be off by as much as 20 years
07:48<[wito]>the point of aircraft is being gibbed until about 1990? :P
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08:00<Eddi|zuHause>the point of aircraft is that there is a limit to the unlimited money printing machine
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08:02<[wito]>Bigger 'small' airports eariler would still be sensible, I feel
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08:39<planetmaker>[wito]: then we need newgrf (air)ports
08:40<dihedral> <- ....
08:40<planetmaker>life is a bitch :)
08:45<dihedral>mathe is too
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09:03<planetmaker>math is logical. Bitches not :P
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>i love maths, bitches not ;)
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09:26<[wito]>Is there a hard-upper-limit for distances for which subsidies are offered?
09:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15612 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Codechange: unduplicate directory creation
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09:29*Rubidium was thinking about roughly MapSizeX() + MapSizeY()
09:29<Sacro>ah, yes
09:29<Sacro>shouldn't be bigger than that
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10:49<[wito]>am I right in thinking that 'Safe Waiting Positions' can block merges but not branches?
10:50<[wito]>if a train is stopped partway through a merge, that piece of track cannot be utilized until that train moves anyway, right?
10:50<[wito]>that is, none of the mergin tracks...
10:51*[wito] hides in a corner, crying
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>what does that have to do with merging or branching?
10:52<@petern>a safe waiting point, in pbs terms, is whereever you place your signal...
10:52<@petern>it's up to you to decide what is or isn't safe
10:52<[wito]>but it can also seen opposite terms:
10:52<@petern>or what is and what isn't blocked
10:52<[wito]>you only place signals at safe waiting places
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10:54<Eddi|zuHause>in that sense, merges are more safe than branches, yes
10:54<@Belugas>i'd rather be on a tree
10:55<@Belugas>branches are not safe, they can break
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>not during thunderstorms
10:57<@petern>I WANT TO BE
10:57<@petern>A TREEEEEE
10:58<@Rubidium>petern: what kind of tree?
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11:00<@Rubidium>or should I say: doo dub doo duh?
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11:04<@petern>binary tree
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11:14<@Belugas>shaking the tree
11:15<Eddi|zuHause># another tree, that wanted to be
11:15<Eddi|zuHause># a sturdy boat, on the gentle sea
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11:23<Cybertinus>I'm trying to get the game music going on Linux
11:23<Cybertinus>Easy Peasy 1.0 I'm running (formerly known as Ubuntu NBR)
11:23<Cybertinus>but all that happens when I start the music is that it loops trough the playlist very fast
11:23<Cybertinus>it doesn't play anything
11:24<Cybertinus>I have downloaded the gm/ folder and put everything in /usr/share/games/openttd/gm
11:24<@Rubidium>do you have timidity installed?
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11:24<Cybertinus>let me chec
11:25<Cybertinus>no, that isn't installed :)
11:26<Cybertinus>I will install that when I get home and try again :)
11:27<@petern>also be aware of audio mixing capabilities. many linux sound drivers only allow audio output to be opened once
11:30<Cybertinus>petern: I don't that that is the problem now
11:30<Cybertinus>I do hear the sound effects (trains leaving stations, boats leaving ports, things like that)
11:31<Cybertinus>but I'm afk again
11:31<Cybertinus>talk to you tonight
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11:31<Cybertinus>I will let you know of the installation of timidity has some effect
11:31<@petern>yes but when you through the music into the equation, that's two audio outputs
11:31<+glx>it should increase cpu usage ;)
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11:55<Burns>hi, i have a "neeewb" question about the alternative soundpack, how to use it in for ex the latest nightly, where should you but all these wav files?
11:56<+glx>there are no alternative soundpacks
11:56<+glx>or you must apply a patch and recompile first
11:57<Burns>so there is no direct support in the latest nightly for use with these?, litle hard to compile patches in win32 :S
11:57<pavel1269>why so?
11:58<Burns>can you give me a simple 3step list how to download and install all requerid libs and packages for compiling this game so go ahead :)
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12:02<Burns>so the answer is no then :)
12:04<@Belugas>the answer is yes, if you mean giving you a way to know by yourself
12:05<@Belugas>the answer is no, if you mean effortless receving the info
12:05<Burns>i think its strange that this project have been going for so long and still dont have free sounds
12:05<@Belugas>we were waiting for you to complete it
12:05<Burns>i only know java, sry...
12:06<Burns>if it was made in java i could give you a working sound option tomorow
12:06<Burns>i hate C compilers in windows
12:06<planetmaker>I only know how to make a fire in a cave....
12:06<pavel1269>MSVS is good one
12:07<Burns>there are no "functioning" options that are free
12:07<pavel1269>the only good one i come across :-/
12:07<@petern>there is no problem with using different sounds
12:07<@petern>just there are no different sound sets
12:07<Ammler>or none
12:07<Sacro>Burns: errm, all functioning C compilers are free
12:07<Sacro>GCC, MSVC
12:07<Sacro>those 2 :p
12:07<pavel1269>MSVC ftw
12:08<Burns>micro$ofts crap that everyone use isnt directly free in, or have i missed something?
12:08<Sacro>express editions
12:08<Sacro>they've always released the compiler for free
12:08<+glx>and mingw/msys is free too
12:08<Sacro>it's the IDE they charge for
12:08<pavel1269>atm i must use C++ builder, u have never seen so bad C compiler
12:09<Burns>i have never got any c compiler to work in windows, i havnt realytried because of the poor documentations and usability of the crap
12:09<planetmaker> <-- if you don't make money with it, Sacro, intels compiler are also free
12:09<Sacro>planetmaker: indeed
12:09<Sacro>there are no other worthwhile compilers
12:10<Sacro>zomg fortran
12:10*planetmaker just saw that they're available also for macos... hm...
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12:10<Burns>i have a dev-cpp compiler i got from school 7 years ago that can compile hello world that we learned at that time :)
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>that's a good start :p
12:11<Burns>if you have used java and netbeans you can only laugh at the poor crap that is avaible for c
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>now teach it templates and the right libraries, and you can go ahead and compile openttd :p
12:12<+glx>Burns: dev-cpp is built around mingw/msys ;)
12:16<Burns>so if i dont have the original game there is no way to start this game? so my girlfriend has to live without ttd for the rest of her life now? poor girl....
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12:17<pavel1269>why cant u just get the original game?
12:17<pavel1269>its abadoned ... not officialy thought
12:17<planetmaker>or download opengfx pack and be fine
12:18<planetmaker>you'll have to live w/o sound, though
12:18<Burns>i have it at my dad, original copy :) and i have the files on my computer. but my point is for those who dont bought the game 10 years ago they have to be able to play it also
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12:19<Eddi|zuHause>sounds are not essential to playing the game
12:20<Burns>there is a bug, if you dont have a the game wont start, you can manualy put a empty file and it will start but there is no how to on it in any supplied manuals or anything, it should at least say somewhere how to start without sound
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12:21<Burns>or it should just warn as it does when you have a corrupt or empty
12:23<Burns>how long have openTTD project been going on? and why have noone ever thought of these things before?
12:23<[wito]>Eddi|zuHause: Is my assertion that there are too many signals true?
12:23<Sacro>hardly too many
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12:23<pavel1269>[wito]: its useless
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>they are on the wrong side
12:24<pavel1269>its generaly good, but .... useless
12:24<[wito]>the intersection or the signalling? :P
12:24<Sacro>its useless what?
12:24<pavel1269>intersection ...
12:24<pavel1269>i imagine it whole stucked ....
12:24<pavel1269>hey, they r going on wrong sides! :D
12:25<[wito]>LHD FTW
12:25<pavel1269>left ...
12:25<[wito]>Left-Hand Drive
12:26<[wito]>I'm so used to it I usually run into big trouble when trying to read screenshots. ;D
12:26*pavel1269 's searching for some screans
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12:28<pavel1269>lol, found some .... also useless :P
12:28<[wito]>actually, In my experience the cloverleaf almost never causes gridlock
12:28<[wito]>and it functions as a reversal in all directions
12:30<[wito]>pavel1269: heh, simple junctions FTW
12:31<[wito]>the lol ones aren't all that bad with PBS, tho'
12:31<[wito]>they are pretty bad, but not terribad
12:31<[wito]>as they only block one direction at a time
12:35<pavel1269>ye, i used them to test .... ots from time, when PBS was new
12:36<pavel1269>i stopped compilind ottd with my patch pack, i dont compile anymore and now i dont play anymore ... i want to get to it, but not enought time :(
12:37<pavel1269>ottd is great game ... :-)
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12:48<[wito]>how do you keep vehicles from reloading the cargo they just onloaded?
12:49<KenjiE20>[wito], "no loading"
12:50<@Rubidium>Burns, what about: install wubi ( & start it, open console, sudo apt-get install g++ libsdl-dev zlib1g-dev libpng-dev libfreetype6-dev libfontconfig-dev
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12:50<@Rubidium>that install all libraries that are needed to compile OpenTTD
12:51<[wito]>KenjiE20: well, it's a bit more complicated, I suppose
12:51<[wito]>If I have a two-way line between two cities
12:51<KenjiE20>not particulary
12:51<[wito]>consisting of a train station and an airport station in each
12:51<KenjiE20>oh, this quandry
12:52<[wito]>I want to move People from Town A -> Airport A -> Airport B -> Town B
12:52<[wito]>that's simple enough
12:52<[wito]>but I also want to move people along the same route, the other way
12:52<Ammler>[wito]: cargodest
12:52<[wito]>which is a bit more troublesome. :P
12:52<KenjiE20>yea, there's no way around it, save removing the airport or using cargodest atm
12:52<[wito]>cargodest is not in trunk, is it?
12:53<KenjiE20>nope, it's branched
12:53<[wito]>not even in nightlies?
12:53<KenjiE20>that is trunk
12:54<[wito]>right. :P
12:54<@Belugas>what???? nightlies are generated from trunk's code???
12:55<@Belugas>ho boy...
12:55<Ammler>you could "simulate" your situation with tansfer at airports and no loading
12:55<Ammler>but then the Airport->Town is empty
12:55<@Rubidium>[wito]: I'd say it's a frequently asked question, but then my only proof for that is a wiki:
12:56<[wito]>actually, nightlies are trunk in any project; I'm just thick. :P
12:56<Ammler>(but if you are a good "roleplayer", it should be fine enough ;-)
12:56<@Rubidium>[wito]: that
12:56<@Rubidium>[wito]: that's not true
12:58<Ammler>KenjiE20: you could also make 2 Airports per town and using one for drop the other for pickup
12:59<@Rubidium>gcc makes 'nightlies' of several branches, we've been making nightlies of branches
12:59<KenjiE20>if it's big enough to get around the noise limit
12:59<Burns>Rubidium: thx for tips with wubi, i will take a look at it, but it doesnt solve my problem. i have vmware so i can always get linux going if i want to
12:59<Ammler>it would look a littly funny, if the planes fly from one to the other adjacent :-)
12:59<KenjiE20>or far enough away
12:59<[wito]>KenjiE20: or the trains are fast enough to move people a lot of squares to city center
12:59<[wito]>what's the distance limit for airports?
12:59<[wito]>that is, how close can two airports be?
13:00<Ammler>KenjiE20: build those outside of the authority region.
13:00<Ammler>they could be adjacent, I guess
13:01<Ammler>we have done such scenarios with trains already
13:02<[wito]>well, the airport express train isn't a big deal setting up,
13:02<[wito]>but what sticks in my craw is sending empty trains to the airport in once city and sending empty trains to town in another
13:02<Ammler>the only silly thing is planes need to switch the airport
13:02<Ammler>they can't just "drive" to the other
13:04<[wito]>that is silly
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13:05<[wito]>but there is an option
13:05<[wito]>if you have two airports in each of the towns involved, that is
13:06<[wito]>if each of them has a nearby industry (like a factory or fruit plantation) you can refit the planes
13:06<[wito]>transport some goods (or fruit) to the other town
13:06<[wito]>and fly them back full of people
13:06<[wito]>and it only costs, what, £20k per round-trip? ;P
13:06<Ammler>well, that is sillier ;-)
13:07<Ammler>then the best is let local transport drive empty to the town
13:07<[wito]>but then the two-way problem persists
13:08<[wito]>if any transport is allowed two-way transport, it breaks down
13:08<[wito]>because they will keep reloading themselves with their own unloaded passengers
13:08<Ammler>not if the airport accept pass
13:09<Ammler>then they will be dropped after unloading
13:09<Ammler>that is how feeder systems works
13:11<[wito]>brb, shop. :P
13:11<Ammler>maybe it is possible to make a cargodest light, which only doesn't load the same cargo on the same vehicle.
13:12<Ammler>but then you will get the pass from the bus in unloaded 1 tick before you.
13:13<@Rubidium>Ammler: and then two planes with the same order unload simultaniously and load eachother's cargo
13:13<@Rubidium>ergo: a cargodest light doesn't fix it
13:13<Ammler>you would need to extend it to orders and have almost cargodest :-)
13:14<[wito]>well, one very simple sollution
13:14<[wito]>is to at airports never load transfer passengers that are from any station in the same town
13:15<@Rubidium>so when you come from an oil rig you aren't allowed to be transfered onto a plane?
13:16<[wito]>let me expand on that. :P
13:17<[wito]>"At airports to never load passengers that are from a station in the same town onto anything other than a plane or helicopter."
13:18<[wito]>and never load onto planes or helicopters transfer passengers from different towns
13:18<[wito]>which wouldn't work all that well either. :P
13:18<pavel1269>"boat 9 come back. boat 9, come back!" "we have just 8 boats" "oh, boat 6, any problems?"
13:19<[wito]>"At airports, never load passengers onto the same kind of transportation they arrived with unless no other mode of transportation is available."
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13:21<@Rubidium>so no hub-and-spoke network?
13:21<[wito]>"Never load passengers onto a vehicle whose orders would bring them back to their origin."!
13:21<[wito]>That last one!
13:22<@Rubidium>a->b->c->d->b->c->d->b->c->d <- they never go back to their origin
13:23<[wito]>true, but if they are transfered in a circle like that, something is amiss somewhere in the basic layout of your network. :P
13:24<[wito]>I think you will agree?
13:24<[wito]>anyway, brb
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13:35<@Belugas>yuo're funny, [wito]. Very entertaining :) Keep on! I like to laugh a bit :D
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13:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15613 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
13:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-04 18:38:03
13:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 fixed by UltimateSephiroth (1)
13:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
13:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 17 changed by planetmaker (17)
13:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: icelandic - 73 fixed by pall (73)
13:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 1 fixed by lorenzodv (1)
13:39<Ammler>planetmaker: is rewriting german.txt?
13:40<planetmaker>I think some improvements were made the last days....
13:40<Ammler>around 50-100 changes
13:40<planetmaker>changes at least :)
13:40<planetmaker>go and check it out, Ammler and tell me your opinion :)
13:41<planetmaker>rather 100 than 50 changes, yes
13:41<Ammler>oh, german is a foreign language like english :P
13:41<planetmaker>you still didn't properly translate to Swiss German ;)
13:42<Ammler>well not like but ...
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13:42<Ammler>I asked at the german forums, but there arent't interests
13:43<planetmaker>maybe... for your self-indulgence? :)
13:43<Ammler>and it is quite hard to chose one "dialect"
13:43<planetmaker>he... yeah
13:44<Ammler>as we use also german for inter-communication
13:44<planetmaker>Many changes are changes which fix the German translation to a more consistant usage of certain style and words
13:44<Ammler>(or however that is called)
13:45<Ammler>(you do not liek some swiss tv shows, because you don't like the dialect the moderator speaks.)
13:45<planetmaker>he :)
13:53<Ammler>iirc, I did also ask at tt-forums
13:55<KingJ>Anyone know what might cause trams/road vehicles to not load balance between paralell drive-through stations?
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13:56<+glx>yes it's a known bug
13:56<KingJ>Ah, ok
13:59<[wito]>All airports (except international and intercontinental) operate with two passenger pools:
13:59<[wito]>Arrivals (where everyone that arrive by plane are put)
14:00<[wito]>and Departures (where everyone arriving by local transportation, including copter, ends up)
14:00<Ammler>you mean 2 stations per airport?
14:01<[wito]>planes only draw passengers from the departures pool, local transport (including copters) only from arrivals
14:01<[wito]>Ammler: more of an internal thing, I was thinking
14:01<[wito]>all other cargo would be put in one pool
14:01<[wito]>for interncontinental and international there would have to be, of course, 4 pools
14:01<[wito]>two for small planes, two for big ones
14:01<@Rubidium>so a non inter.*al airport can't have plane-plane transfers?
14:01<@Rubidium>or aircraft-aircraft transfers for that matter
14:02<[wito]>inter.*al airports would only have transfers from small to big planes, and big to small planes
14:02<@Rubidium>and what makes the inter.*al airports special w.r.t. transfers?
14:03<@Rubidium>it's not like big planes only do the inter.*al transport and the small planes only the local transport
14:03<[wito]>Rubidium: In a large network, you would have a few huge airports, and several small ones?
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14:03<Ammler>[wito]: don't define the pools per station, just make it possible to have more cargo-pools or buffers or however ;-)
14:03<Ammler>which are chosesable per orderlist
14:03<@Rubidium>it all ends up with implementing some sort of cargodest
14:04<@Rubidium>so better implement that than those untransparant and complex (ununderstandable) schemes
14:04<[wito]>actually, this is just Arrivals/Departures for airports. :P
14:04<@Rubidium>but *WHY* airports?
14:04<@Rubidium>train stations have the same problem
14:04<@Rubidium>so do those things called docks
14:04<Ammler>airport is just a station
14:04<@Rubidium>and even those things called road stops
14:05<[wito]>why airports?
14:05<[wito]>WHY AIRPORTS?
14:05<[wito]>Airports because:
14:06<[wito]>Now that airport placement is goverened by noise level, the airport is the most likely station to be outside of town catechement area, and unable to accept passengers in its own right
14:06<[wito]>making it the most likely station to be problematic in this type of feeder scenario
14:06<@Rubidium>*you* want to play with airports in a specific way
14:07<kosher>May I ask a question: Why when I set up a goods route, when goods get transferred from refinery to ship by trucks, then by ship, and finally by another truck, I pay instead of getting income at tle last truck?
14:07<[wito]>kosher: you're moving the goods too slow
14:08<[wito]>meaning that when you get paid for transfer early on, you're overcompensated
14:08<@Rubidium>which means you are only interested in 'fixing' your problem for your case
14:08<@Rubidium>kosher: because you don't understand how the transfer system works
14:09<[wito]>Rubidium: so no other "Advanced Setting (nice new name, btw. :)" has ever started out as a sollution to a specific problem experienced by a specific player?
14:09<kosher>thx [wito]
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14:10<Cutter>is it possible to prevent trains from turning back when they wait too long?
14:10<@Rubidium>[wito]: yes, but they became a solution for all modes of transport before they got added
14:10<@Rubidium>Cutter: set the 'wait for signal' timeout to 255
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14:11<Cutter>that's in minutes?
14:11<@Rubidium>no, some arbitrary internal unit
14:11<Cutter>ok thanks
14:11<@Rubidium>255 is the magic number for never turn around
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14:12<@Rubidium>there's like 3 wait for signal settings for different types of signals
14:12<Cutter>is it possible to let trains run at full speed through stations?
14:13<[wito]>Cutter: add Non-stop to the order
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14:14<Cutter>[wito]: IIRC trains don't stop but still slow down in this case
14:14<[wito]>Cutter: not in my experience
14:14<@Rubidium>reduce the number of (sharp) corners in the station's entrance
14:14<[wito]>that too
14:15<Cutter>k thx
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14:17<Cutter>are transfers really profitable?
14:18<planetmaker>they are just there to annoy inexperienced players :)
14:19<[wito]>I find that they are generally profitable mostly when involving a feeder service
14:19<planetmaker>that's their use :)
14:20<[wito]>for single-source-single-target transport (except oil from oil rigs) I try to avoid it where possible
14:20<planetmaker>those orders make sure you have _loads_ of passengers waiting at your big intercity station
14:20<planetmaker>and then the ICE picks them up and drops them w/o transfer at its destination
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14:22<[wito]>ICE ICE baby!
14:22<planetmaker>tgv, shinkansen, ...
14:22<planetmaker>... all with an on-board bistro serving ice :P
14:24<[wito]>to grow, a desert town requires food and water delivered inside the same month?
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>ice cream, you scream!
14:25<energetic>is it already possible to transfer back in 07?
14:25<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: planetmaker, just reading the german forums about pbs ;-)
14:25<Eddi|zuHause><Ammler> <- the canonical phrase to comment that picture is "Hä?"
14:27<Ammler>My dialect needs some "ä" :-)
14:27<Brokkoli>which region of the swiss is that?
14:28<planetmaker>he @ Ammler
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14:29<Ammler>Brokkoli: Amden
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>is that in any kind related to your name?
14:29<planetmaker>Die Grafik "" kann nicht angezeigt werden, weil sie Fehler enthält.
14:30<Ammler>Ammler call people from Amden "Ammler"
14:30<Brokkoli>ok i understand ;)
14:30<planetmaker>he... now it works... :)
14:30<planetmaker>hehe. Nice, nice!
14:30<Ammler>but if you go one village out from Amden, language changed and we are "Amdener"
14:31<Ammler>well, Amden is somehow...
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>that's a problem in mountaneous regions, "neighbouring" villages are typically in separate valleys, and thus rather isolated
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>so the languages evolve differently
14:36<energetic>I was talking about ottd with a friend of mine, and we asked ourselves what 'vision' the ottd project has - what does it aim for other then having fun? is there some kind of mission statement?
14:37<Ammler>energetic: become tycoon, I guess
14:37<planetmaker>don't mention the war :)
14:38<pavel1269>anyone know game Constructor?
14:38<el_en>energetic: the conclusion that it aims for fun is made by you, it's not a generally accepted fact.
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14:38<pavel1269>there was the coolest mission specific system i ever occurd ... dynamic missions ftw :-)
14:38<planetmaker>lol @ pavel1269
14:39<energetic>true, very true. Am I not right with the fun part?
14:39<pavel1269>planetmaker: what?
14:39<pavel1269>u know that game? :-)
14:39<planetmaker>ah... sorry, mixed it up with "Transporter" :P
14:39<energetic>*pavel1269 joins #Constructor
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14:40<pavel1269>contructor where? quakenet?
14:40<el_en>i wonder if e.g. Tron even knew what 'fun' means.
14:40<Rexxars>constructor was awesome
14:41<Sacro><3 Transporter
14:42<pavel1269>"<energetic> *pavel1269 joins #Constructor
14:42<pavel1269>wtf u mean by that? :P
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14:43<energetic>oh, just kidding
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14:43<energetic>next time i'll come up with better jokes ;)
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14:45<Eddi|zuHause>there are no "better jokes" only "better places to tell some jokes"
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14:50<energetic>But today is a sad day
14:50<Ammler>hehe, is that forum amusing...
14:51<Ammler># "herunterladend"... "anfordernd"... also der Übersetzer gehört echt mal geköpft...
14:51<Ammler>was that you planetmaker?
14:52<energetic>dihedral, you here?
14:53<Ammler>[20:53] [Away] dihedral is away: "knock knock - aint there" (what a client do you use?)
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14:59<[wito]>Time-tabling: How useful is it?
14:59<energetic>Ammler: it's just me acting as a newbie in IRC.
14:59<energetic>very usefull in certain cases
15:00<energetic>for example: you service a town of 2,000. you bring the passengers to a town with 500 inhabitants
15:01<energetic>since "full load" here on both stations will for sure cause a jam at the smaller town, "full load" at the big town, and not full load prevents this
15:01<energetic>but then the ratings drop at the small town, causing little pasengers to be transported from the small town
15:01<planetmaker>Ammler: no, that was done prior to me, I think. Though I might be responsible for one :P
15:01<planetmaker>But then only copying bad style :)
15:02<Ammler>energetic: it really depense on the client, on some clients you need to ask the nick (whois) how his "status" is, mine does show that (dih is greyed), but my client makes around 10 times more traffic then the usual clients (background traffic)
15:02<energetic>solution: timetable trains to wait 5-10 days at the smaller station, now ratings will usually stay above 60%
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>[wito]: the builtin timetabling is of rather limited use, but the "improved timetable management" is really great
15:03<Cybertinus>Rubidium: thnx for the timidity tip. I installed it, and now the music works :D
15:03<[wito]>Eddi|zuHause: trains waiting for each other and such?
15:03<energetic>Ammler: I did not realize I simply could click on the user and start a private conversation
15:03<Ammler>then you would see it too, I guess...
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>[wito]: the first obvious improvement is vehicles on shared orders being spread out equally
15:03<energetic>well, that part I knew, but not that he would autoreply with that answer.
15:04<[wito]>Eddi|zuHause: so three water tanker trains on a 3 month time table would ensure monthly water?
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but only with improved timetabling (or much micromanagement with the current timetabling)
15:05<energetic>crashes, network hickups, jams, also: towns need every 20 days water, not every 30 days iirc
15:05<Ammler>planetmaker: the funny part was more the reaction of Eddi|zuHause :-)
15:05<energetic>using timetabling you can boost the efficiency of your trains in some cases up to about 50%
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, it was not the first time i mentioned the low quality of that window
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>[wito]: what the default timetabling is seriously lacking is synchronising timetables between different vehicles
15:07<energetic>wito: to ensure monthly water, best is to drop water at a station, and then transfer it by truck into town. since the truck can handle only a small percentage of the water train cargo, it should be still busy when the next water dropoff occurs
15:07<energetic>same goes for food & goods
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15:08<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. "express train leaves at 12:05, freight train leaves at 12:10"
15:08<energetic>it however does affect your revenue a few percent
15:09<energetic>since food/goods/water comes on its destination later
15:10<energetic>but the best use of timetabling i found is growing towns with buses
15:14<Cutter>energetic: why do you need timetables in this case?
15:15<energetic>in certain cases timetabling helps ensuring stations are serviced every 20 days
15:16<energetic>ie a bus stop only generating 5 pax/mo, are best configured to wait like 10 days, if you buy 2 buses
15:16<energetic>sometimes they drive behind each other, and 20 days arent met
15:17<@Belugas>Scotland Shame!!!
15:18<energetic>usually, you would buy enough buses to make sure that 20 days are met. But sometimes, you dont have the money, or the town layout is weird and the bus needs to drive around the whole town
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15:20<Cutter>a "max waiting time at stations" setting would be way simpler
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15:21<Cutter>than timetables which you have to reset everytime you change the orders
15:21<@Belugas>[15:21] <Cutter> a "max waiting time at stations" setting would be way simpler <--- buhwhahahaha!!!!!
15:21<@Belugas>let's go boy :D
15:21<@Belugas>dig in the sources!
15:24<energetic>Belugas, is your airplane available in grf already? from ur avatar on the forum?
15:24<energetic>(the airplane carrying airplane)
15:24<Ammler>energetic: maybe the russian set?
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15:24<energetic>may be?
15:25<Ammler>I know it has big planes, just not how big they are ;-)
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i have a problem now... Pro7 is showing the pushing daisies episodes that did not air in english... should i really bother with the translated version?
15:26<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: download the torrent ;-)
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: "did not air" typically means "there is no such torrent"
15:26<@Belugas>energetic, i do not know, at all... Actually, that avatar was in reaction ot a comment from Eddi|zuHause :) Initially, it was a real beluga, the white dolphin without wing
15:26<Ammler>"the scene" might have the english version too.
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>what? i have never commented your avatar, Belugas... maybe you mix people up?
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: it's not like i did not check that already :p
15:29<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause: i'm 99.9% sure it was you. You said that whenever you saw me coming inline, you were thinking of that plane :)
15:29<@Belugas>long time ago... i'd say
15:29<Ammler>at least from the tracker I use, they seed it with 2 languages
15:29<Ammler>which episode are you looking for?
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: i am 99.9% sure that it was not me, because i am not a plane guy at all...
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15:31<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: 11-13
15:31<@Belugas>well... memory failed me
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>of season 2
15:31<@Belugas>sorry for that
15:31<pavel1269>omg, i said that, rly long time ago (6months?), and u wasnt here belugas!
15:32<pavel1269>i remember, cos everytime i see u, i remember that white plane :-)
15:32<Cutter><energetic> in certain cases timetabling helps ensuring stations are serviced every 20 days <-- where is it written that towns should be serviced every 20 days?
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: afair you already had that plane avatar when i first visited the forum (that must be over 2 years ago)
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>(or 3?)
15:33<Cutter>energetic: or is it an arbitrary delay?
15:33<@Belugas>pavel1269, you might have, but you're not the one who triggered the change :)
15:33<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, might be 3 years indeed
15:33<@Belugas>around 0.3.6, iirc
15:33<pavel1269>what change btw? :P
15:33<@Belugas>of avatar
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>i joined this channel between 0.4.0 and 0.4.5
15:34<pavel1269>i ma visiting forums since 0.3.0 :-)
15:35<pavel1269>what ... belugas no more ottd dev?
15:36<pavel1269>hmm, u r not in group, but u still have that title ...
15:36<@Belugas>in group???
15:36<@Belugas>ho... moderator...
15:36<@Belugas>i never was a moderator
15:36<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: season 2 might be only german, didn't download yet.
15:36<pavel1269>y, moderator :-)
15:36<@Belugas>lucky for quite a bunch of newbies...
15:37<Ammler>german only
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: they are the 3 last episodes of the series, they did not air in america (and afaik it is also not planned), so they will only be available on the DVD
15:37<pavel1269>btw, is there a way to apply patch with MSVC?
15:38<Ammler>is that serie canceled?
15:38<Ammler>I thought, it is so successful
15:38<pavel1269>i am lookign forward to compile my versions again, but ... i dont want 1program for getting sources, 1for appling patch, 1 for editing, 1for compiling ,,,
15:39<@Rubidium>compiling consists actually already of 4 programs (or even more)
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: first season was successful, second season not.
15:40<pavel1269>but, i ses only one ? :-)
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>and yes, it is cancelled
15:40<energetic>Cutter: it is in the code. Its not writte, and I will update the wiki page soon
15:40<energetic>if I have all info complete
15:41<@Rubidium>everything that some people find great are not well watched by the 'morons' that like things like idols ;)
15:41<@Rubidium>gets cancelled prematurely
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it is very sad...
15:42<Ammler>Odyssey 5
15:42<Ammler>dunno, if I spelled it right
15:43<energetic>to be complete: minimum 5 stations serviced (load/unload) every 20 days in a town, with lotsa road blocks (2x2) grows towns fastest
15:43<planetmaker>Raumpatrolie Orion :P
15:43<energetic>some is influenced by difficulty settings
15:43<Ammler>planetmaker: I am currently wathicng U.F.O.
15:43<planetmaker>:) Me the BSG 2003, first season :)
15:43<Ammler>from around 1970
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15:45<Ammler>BSG is one of the tv shows, I lwatch immediately if available
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15:46<Ammler>s04e17 was the last, iirc
15:46<Progman>planetmaker: I got all episodes of Orion on dvd ;)
15:46<el_en>Ammler: last of the last or latest?
15:47<Ammler>the last one might be the latest
15:49<Ammler>planetmaker: there are around 7 episodes?
15:49<Ammler>Progman: I meant
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>afaik BSG, like the other typical SciFi series, have 20 episodes per season
15:51<Ammler>yep, but orion isn't that typical ;-)
15:52<Ammler>ah you meant 17
15:52<@Rubidium>roughly 15-25 episodes per season is common for American series, 5-15 is common for British series (e.g. Dr Who)
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>"SciFi" being the tv channel
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>other comparable SciFi series being SG1 and SGA
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>StarTrek was not a series of the SciFi channel
15:54<Ammler>how can you list SciFi series without StarTrek ;-)
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>StarTrek (except Voyager) was produced directly for syndication
15:54<Ammler>oh, you meant it that way.
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>Voyager (and "Enterprise") was then produced for UPN
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>that is a finnish show :p
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15:56<Ammler>I have some StarTrek episods translated in "schwäbisch"
15:57<el_en>i'm not quite sure, but star wreck may well be the first finnish scifi movie ever.
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>the only recent german movie that comes remotely close to "SciFi" is "(T)Raumschiff Surprise - Periode 1"
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>the whole scifi and fantasy sector is heavily underrepresented in germany, spread over all mediums (book, tv, cinema)
16:02<el_en>nobody wants scifi when there's reality tv.
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16:05<Ammler>is there a scifi show after Orion?
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16:07<Ammler>there was something nice with "the global leader group" as bad guys
16:07<Ammler>how are they called again?
16:08<planetmaker>sci-fi with one of the biggest impacts was "war of the worlds" - as radio transmission back then.
16:08<planetmaker>it's awesome and well made :)
16:10<[wito]>For the record; Season 4 of BSG has 20 epis., and is the last season
16:11<[wito]>and apparently, either E20 or E20.5 is going to be an extended-length special
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16:47<Cutter>I came across this situation:
16:47<Cutter>two ports quite far from a town
16:48<Cutter>I have to use buses to tranfer people from the towns to the ports
16:49<Cutter>now how to tell the boat to take unload passengers, then take passengers but not the one they just unloaded
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16:50<Cutter>*how to tell the boat to load passengers but not the passengers it just unloaded
16:51<Yexo>that's currently not possible
16:52<[wito]>I had exactly the same question earler
16:53<Yexo>you can work around it by having two docks on each side (one for unloading, one for loading)
16:53<Cutter>I guess I'll have to make two ports
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16:56<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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16:56<Yexo>hello Nite_Owl
16:56<Nite_Owl>Hello Yexo
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17:01<Ammler>is Kejhic sometimes around here?
17:04<Nite_Owl>Just to be clear my nick has nothing to do with a similarly named character in the upcoming "Watchman" movie. My nick is far older then that character even going back to the original graphic novel.
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17:12<Ammler>STR_NETWORK_CLIENT_COMPANY_JOIN :*** {STRING} ist der Firma #{2:NUM} beigetregen <-- where do you collect translation bugs?
17:14<Progman>FS or via email to the translator
17:14<Ammler>are you a translator, too?
17:15<Ammler>well, then, planetmaker ^ ;-)
17:15<Yexo>or ask for a translater account and fix them yourself
17:16<Ammler>Yexo: my language isn't there :-)
17:16<planetmaker>just make a note in either the German forums or in tt-forums in the German translations thread
17:16<@Rubidium>or go to that forum topic for german translations
17:17<planetmaker>:) that's what I meant with ...or tt-forums... :)
17:18<Ammler>planetmaker: do you have that one already or shall I post it?
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17:30<planetmaker>please post it
17:30<planetmaker>good night for today to all of you
17:30<Ammler>already done :-)
17:31<Ammler>patches woudn't help I guess
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17:31<Nite_Owl>good night planetmaker
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17:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15614 /trunk/src/ai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIVehicleList_Group(group_id) and AIVehicleList_DefaultGroup(vehicle_type).
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18:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15615 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fios.cpp):
18:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: show scenarios/heightmaps from both your home directory and installation directory.
18:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change [FS#2692]: make it more likely that scenarios are saved to the directory
18:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: where openttd.cfg is and not the installation directory (gives problems with
18:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: e.g. Vista). The working directory still overrides the openttd.cfg directory
18:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: though, but only if it has a scenario directory.
18:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15616 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Change [API CHANGE]: Rename AIOrder::ChangeOrder() to AIOrder::SetOrderFlags().
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18:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15617 /trunk/src/ (misc_cmd.cpp newgrf_engine.cpp train_cmd.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Change [FS#2694]: vehicle variables 40-43 weren't cached (though spec stated they are). Caching these variables can yield a 10+% speed increase when those vehicle variables are queried often.
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18:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15618 /trunk/ ( bin/ bin/scenario/):
18:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Cleanup: remove unneeded (empty) scenario directory.
18:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Note: as you might know subversion has the tendency to also remove unversioned files when a directory is removed, so scenarios and heightmaps in that directory will be gone too.
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18:48<Aali>people will hate you for that
18:49<Aali>(even though it's 100% their own fault they lost data)
18:49<@Rubidium>did I warn them?
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18:59<+glx>who reads log before updating?
19:00<Aali>who keeps important files in the source repo?
19:01<Aali>..that aren't related to the source :P
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19:04<Brokkoli>will svn up automaticly delete modified files?
19:05<Brokkoli>i thougt it wouldn't
19:05<Yexo>for me it didn't
19:06<Aali>the problem is that svn doesn't care about _unversioned_ files when it removes a versioned directory
19:07<Brokkoli>it does not?
19:07<Aali>so, if you keep some scenarios in the bin/ dir and svn up, poof, they're gone
19:07<Brokkoli>didn't know that
19:07<Yexo>Aali: I tested it, and it didn't remove some unversioned files for me
19:08<@Rubidium>it's "just" that many people got kinda pissed because they 'lost' files when we merged makefile rewrite and c++, which also (re)moved files in massive quantities
19:08<Aali>maybe it has been fixed
19:08<Aali>I don't use svn for openttd
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19:20<Ammler>can't remember, it was that way
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22:37<Cutter>hey what's wrong
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22:39<Cutter>my boats get 9000 $ for transfering 100 passengers, but the buses get only about 30 $ for delivering the same passengers to destination
22:39<Cutter>I know it's a long trip but well
22:40<Cutter>what's the point of a ferry if the passengers can't stand the distance
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23:20<De_Ghosty>ottd is relaly extortion
23:20<De_Ghosty>i mean
23:20<De_Ghosty>they get in ur bus
23:20<De_Ghosty>and then u move em a thousand miles
23:20<De_Ghosty>and they have to pay u :o
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23:25<Cutter>I've seen buses lose money upon delivery
23:25<Cutter>like if there was some kind of hold-up inside the bus or something
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 05 00:00:33 2009