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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-13

---Logopened Fri Mar 13 00:00:50 2009
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04:54<Mark__T>are the original Datafiles from TTD still needed, or is it now possible to run ottd without them
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04:56<DASPRiD>afaik stil needed, tho as the ones from the ttd demo are enough, there's nothing to pay ;)
05:08<@petern>you can use opengfx with a blank
05:11<Mark__T>and change to a newgfx then?
05:12<@petern>what's a newgfx?
05:13<Mark__T>a new set, whatever, just starting to read about otttd
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07:53<@Darkvater>hmmm. got disc'd
07:54<@Rubidium>yeah, your pong was weak
07:54*Darkvater shakes fists at his pong
07:55<@Darkvater>damn you!
07:55<@Rubidium>S. Colbert?
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07:56<@Rubidium>Stephen Colbert (of Comedy Central's Colbert Report) does roughly the same; he shakes his fist and shouts "damn you!" quite regularly in his show
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08:12<fonsinchen>I'd like to invalidate a few temporary variables in my code when someone joins a network game, as I don't want to write saveload code for them. Is it possible to find out when someone is about to join?
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08:17<fonsinchen>Too vague again? Well: I have a couple of threads doing a parallel computation of the cargo distribution. These threads all work on their own set of data and are joined with the main thread in defined intervals for copying over the results. The problem is that those threads won't be running on the newly joining instance, so I have to cancel them on all other instances. I'm wondering how to do that.
08:19<fonsinchen>Or rather: how to detect the condition that a new instance is joining.
08:19<@Rubidium>you don't
08:21<@Rubidium>actually with frame_freq > 1 one can't guarantee that the "client joins" messages comes in the right tick
08:21<fonsinchen>does it come in before the client joins?
08:22<@Rubidium>with frame freq 10 the server lets the clients run 10 ticks and sync on that moment
08:23<@Rubidium>if the server is slightly slower than 30ms/tick or the network is laggy a message client joined at tick #5 might reach the client at tick #6
08:24<fonsinchen>That's bad luck for me. In the remaining tick one of the threads might have been joined.
08:31<fonsinchen>So I'll have to pause the threads when saving, save their states and joining times and start them in those states when loading. That should work.
08:31<Noldo>just don't join them before server ok's it
08:32<fonsinchen>How can the server tell that?
08:32<Noldo>by sending a message?
08:32<fonsinchen>That was my question: Is there a message "client is about to join"?
08:33<fonsinchen>And how do I receive it.
08:34<Noldo>there be dragons
08:35<fonsinchen>I'm not going to mess with the network code. I'll rather save the thread states.
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08:38<@Rubidium>you have considered that the thread must do EXACTLY the same amount of work on each client without reading ANY of the game state after setting the thread up, right?
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08:41<@Rubidium>ofcourse only if you value a multiplayer where you don't get desynced because you've got a dual core CPU and the server has a single core CPU or any other fancy CPU scheduling schemes
08:41<fonsinchen>I have the threads working on their own instances of graph problems
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08:41<fonsinchen>Those are completely seperate from the main game data.
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08:42<fonsinchen>And the starting points can easily be reconstructed and saved
08:42<fonsinchen>so I'll go that way
08:42<fonsinchen>(Of course we'll see a heavy lag when loading as there is a reason I do that multithreaded ...)
08:43<taisteluorava>hm, is there any way you can make wagons replaced with second engine?
08:44<taisteluorava>with that automatic tool
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09:26<@Belugas_Gone>wooow :D lovely comics houses!
09:27<pavel1269>whats difference between in patchin .... -p0/1/2 ???
09:27<pavel1269>i dont get it, i just try and sometimes it work
09:28<+glx>it's easy, -p is used to skip parts of the path
09:28<pavel1269>dont get it :-)
09:28<pavel1269>what number should i use? :-)
09:29<pavel1269>what does it change? why it is skipping anythinkg?
09:30<+glx>svn diff produce p0 diff (base dir is .)
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09:31<+glx>git/hg diff produce p1 diff (base dir for "source" and "dest" are different)
09:31<pavel1269>so if i have ... patch starting ... diff i use -p0 ... if Index ... -p2 ?
09:33<+glx>you need to compare "source" and "dest" paths
09:35<+glx>"src/settings.cpp" and "src/settings.cpp" > p0
09:35<+glx>"a/src/settings.cpp" and "b/src/settings.cpp" > p1
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09:37<pavel1269>thanks glx, now got it :-)
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09:41<pavel1269>also i noticed that i must use -i .... i read the help ... whats stdin?
09:42<+glx>"-i filename" is like "< filename"
09:42<+glx>it's a matter of personal preference
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09:52<|Japa|>hmm... single city game is interesting at first, but ends up having a lot of waiting
09:55<@Belugas_Gone>so you now have a very big challenge : make the town grow even faster
09:55<@Belugas_Gone>or play on smaller maps
09:55<@Belugas_Gone>which is not easy either
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09:57<energetic>Allow building road stops on road/tram tracks of competitors (r15601) --> Awesome!
09:59<[wito]>|Japa|: I set up a metro line in 1920, go to bed, and start playing around 2000 when I get up next morning
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10:05<|Japa|>Belugas_Gone, certainly not easier to play a smaller map, as I'd have to make a patch of ottd to support 32x32 maps
10:07<@petern>i want a beer :o
10:07<@Belugas_Gone>people are never satisfied :(
10:08<|Japa|>I don't drink alchohol
10:08<|Japa|>but I'd love a milkshake
10:08<@Belugas_Gone>i'll grab my moka coffee
10:08<@petern>sorry Belugas_Gone :(
10:08<@Belugas_Gone>not you petern :)
10:08<[wito]>damn you petern!
10:08<[wito]>Now you made me want a beer!
10:08<@Belugas_Gone>you deserve a good one onceina while, petern
10:08*[wito] shakes his fist at petern
10:09<[wito]>Damn you!
10:10<@Belugas_Gone>[wito], you may take (or deserve) a beer when you'll fix the Chi of the maps!
10:11<[wito]>is that so?
10:11<[wito]>If so, I'd better get right on it
10:16<|Japa|>[wito], while your at it, try to get the vastu right too
10:19<[wito]>|Japa|: they are kind of difficult to reconcile within one generation
10:19<[wito]>but I'm thinking that if I fix one, I'll fix the other
10:21<SpComb>you can have a beer if you come here and get it
10:22<|Japa|>any ideas?
10:23<@petern>what sort of ideas?
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10:26<@Belugas_Gone>i have an idea... do not use label when it's a text that should be used instead o_O
10:27<@Belugas_Gone>|Japa|, i hope you do realize that 32*32 map size patch CANNOT ever be in trunk, righ?
10:28<|Japa|>Belugas_Gone, twas a joke
10:29<@Belugas_Gone>pffffff.... got me alright
10:30*Belugas_Gone throws batteries of his scarcasometer in the garbage
10:30<@Belugas_Gone>and put new ones in
10:30<|Japa|>and.... I'm a magnate
10:33<SpComb>the OpenTTD titles are kind of... arbitrary :)
10:36<pavel1269>its real fun upgrading from 11814 to 15692 :-P
10:38<pavel1269>|Japa|: why play on that small maps?
10:39<@Belugas_Gone>what's that? a command from coop???
10:40<pavel1269>tryed to get info from last rev? :-)
10:40<@Rubidium>pavel1269: glad you like the upgrading
10:41<SpComb>it's not like svn needs to upgrade each revision at a time
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10:55<[wito]>r15697, btw. :P
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11:09<pavel1269>i dont have current trunk btw?
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11:19<[wito]>I have an idea for advanced tunnel construction, btw
11:19<pavel1269>hi dihedral
11:19<[wito]>that makes the idea, on the whole, plausible
11:20<[wito]>(stuff like stations, signals in tunnels
11:20<dihedral>code wise or just in your head?
11:20<[wito]>just in my head, for now. :P
11:20<[wito]>but let me ax you this: How were the tunnel stations in NYC built in olden times?
11:21<dihedral>definately not in openttd
11:21<[wito]>they dug friggin holes, didn't they?
11:21<dihedral>and now what do you think tunnels are in openttd?
11:21<[wito]>They dug holes, built the lines, and covered the holes back up!
11:23<[wito]>point is, if a similar thing was possible in OpenTTD, it would be self-balancing
11:23<[wito]>yes, you can have underground stations (with the same conncetion rules and catchement as if they were above ground) but it's going to cost you dearly
11:23<dihedral>there is no 'underground'!
11:24<[wito]>dihedral: there doesn't need to be
11:24<[wito]>it just needs to be a building with a height on top of which you can build. :P
11:24<dihedral>if you want underground stations, there needs to be "under ground"
11:25<pavel1269>[wito]: you have any patch? :-)
11:25<[wito]>dihedral: but that's the beauty of it
11:25<[wito]>the stations aren't underground
11:25<[wito]>they are on the ground
11:25<dihedral>and if that is what you are after, perhaps you can then start of with the tulles that in ttdp allow you to build on top of the entrance/exit
11:25<[wito]>but you can build on top of them. :P
11:25<dihedral>and get that working in openttd
11:26<[wito]>dihedral: need to finish my feng-shui mapgen first. .P
11:26<dihedral>well - then do that and dont think as much! :-P
11:26<pavel1269>wonder, how will map with good Chi look like
11:27<[wito]>pavel1269: it will look pleasant
11:27<pavel1269>show :-)
11:27<[wito]>well, I need to actually build a map generator first. :P
11:28<dihedral>a map generator??
11:28<[wito]>dihedral: A map generator
11:28<dihedral>man - you really like doing things the complicated way
11:29<[wito]>how do you figure?
11:30<dihedral>annoyance factor ^^
11:31<[wito]>Actually, Yexo has provided a patch for writing mapgens in squirrel
11:36<|Japa|>I still want good vastu in it :p
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12:46<Kennie_>Hey.. Could somebody tell my how to create/use MU-wagons in OpenTTD with cc2/Why holding ctrl while clicking "build vehicle" doesn't make a wagon, and only trains?
12:48<Kennie_>I'm using the latest beta, btw
12:48<+glx>build and drag
12:49<@petern>you just have to select the MU carriage
12:49<Kennie_>um.. the only thing in the list are the engines, none of the wagons fit..
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12:50<Kennie_>with any of the wagons in cc2 I only get that I should use a MU-wagon instead
12:50<@petern>it's quite well hidden iirc
12:50<@petern>but it should be there
12:50<Kennie_>Couldn't find anything on google or the forum either..
12:50<+glx>anyway you can build another engine and move it behind the first one
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12:51<DJNekkid>hi all :)
12:51<@petern>keywords, eh?
12:51<+glx>cc2 will fail ;)
12:52<Kennie_>well I got that much.. but most of the engines there don't take cargo.. I tried that :/
12:54<[wito]>Kennie_: MU trains (DMU/EMU) usually only take passengers (and sometimes mail)
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12:55<[wito]>they usually aren't refittable, and usually are designed to be run as metro lines
12:55<[wito]>(start/stop fast, load fast, move slow)
12:57<Kennie_>hey, now there's one
12:58<[wito]>basically, most MU trains are such that even if you could use them for freight, they'd give extremely poor performace
12:59<@petern>don't you fucking know what you are
12:59<[wito]>petern: what?
12:59<@petern>don't you fucking know what you are
12:59<[wito]>I must admit that at present I'm a bit confused, ye
13:01<Kennie_>on another issue though, why is it that the range within which you can join a station seem so random; I had a case with 2 stations with 7 tiles in between on levelled ground, and yet couldn't join them until I raised the max spread to 30..
13:02<Kennie_>half of the time the list is empty, and it doesn't seem to follow any logic as of when you can join a station to another and when you can't
13:04<[wito]>how long were the stations?
13:04<planetmaker>station spread is the maximum distance station tiles may have from eachother.
13:04<planetmaker>not the distance to the closest station tile
13:05<Kennie_>okay.. I think the stations were both 7 tiles long
13:05<Kennie_>I tried with 12, 16 and 20
13:05<[wito]>Kennie_: that would, if I understand your layout correctly, give a station spread of 21
13:06<@petern>maximum distance of the farthest tiles
13:06<[wito]>if you have SSSSSSS_______SSSSSSS in a line
13:06<DJNekkid>can anyone tell me why this dont work ... i.e. from 12 and forward doesnt it "cannot attach" -->
13:08<[wito]>Kennie_: A tip: use the station drag and drop tool to see if you can connect two stations
13:08<[wito]>if you cannot use it to make a rectangle that contains both locations, station spread is too low
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13:23<@petern>do you spit?
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13:34<[wito]>petern: are you drunk?
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13:45<pavel1269>i intalled boost libraries .... better just graph and headers .... how do i inlucde ..... where to put path to .hpp files?
13:45<pavel1269>4>d:\games\openttd\trunk\src\routing_classes.h(28) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp': No such file or directory
13:45<pavel1269>checked and that file is there
13:47<+glx>configure --cflags=-I/path/to/boost/dir
13:47<pavel1269>win32 :-)
13:48<+glx>works on win32 too ;)
13:48<pavel1269>where do i put this in MSVS? :-)
13:48<+glx>where is your boost dir?
13:48<pavel1269>c:/program files/boost/boost_version/boost
13:49<pavel1269>*boost_1_38 btw :-)
13:49<+glx>in msvc add c:\program files\boost\boost_version to include paths
13:49<pavel1269>ahh ... i added even last dir ... :-/ stupid mistake
13:50<pavel1269>works now, thanks
13:51<welshdragon>argh, PBS FAIL
13:51*welshdragon broke the PBS
13:51<pavel1269>glx: you provided me that many advices over time, i just wonder, that you didnt get bored and you still help people :-)
13:52<@Belugas_Gone>because glx is one of the kindest human being i've ever encountered
13:52<@Belugas_Gone>unlike your humble servant, should i add...
13:53<@Belugas_Gone>mmh... nine inch nail at home is not like at work... cannot crank up the same way :S
13:54*pavel1269 's searching in vocabulary some words he jsut encouraged :P
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13:56<pavel1269>didnt get your last sentence :-/
13:58<@petern>didn't you?
13:58<@Belugas_Gone>#Bow Down BEfore the one you serve
13:59<@Belugas_Gone>#You're gonna get what you deserve
13:59<@Belugas_Gone>Dont' you?
13:59<pavel1269>petern, u peter138?
13:59*pavel1269 is bowing to glx
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14:00*pavel1269 is gonna make big U for Belugas
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14:02<pavel1269>everytime you must see "u" you must ..... "commemorate" me :-)
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14:08<DJNekkid>hmm ... in .NFO ... are there a way to count the number of number of attached wagons, and adjust the TE accordingly?
14:09<DJNekkid>well, i know of one way, but it requre A LOT of lines
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14:10<DJNekkid>one CB36 for each occurance, but that is ... well ... not practical
14:13<DJNekkid>i mean, count the number, calculate it by x, and then CB36 with the calculated number
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14:19<pavel1269>hmm ... cargodest patch have 217kB .... cargodest+8patches have 196kB :-)
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14:20<frosch123>DJNekkid: only engines can have a TE
14:20<DJNekkid>frosch123: i know, but that TE can be adjusted by CB36
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14:21<DJNekkid>but if an egnine got, lets say, 10 wagons, the TE could be adjusted (typycal for MU's)
14:21<frosch123>well, I do not exactly understand the problem
14:22<frosch123>what do you mean with "one cb36 for each occurance"
14:23<DJNekkid>gimme a sec, and i'll "paste" the code im trying to apply, just gotta finish it
14:24<planetmaker>good evening all :)
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14:27<DJNekkid>there frosch123
14:27<DJNekkid>that AC at the end could be pretty much anything to
14:28<frosch123>and you think I can read that :)
14:29<frosch123>however, are you searching for advancedvaraction2
14:29<frosch123>like, do you want to return something like "min((consist length) * 10, 255)" ?
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14:30<DJNekkid>i would like to count the number of wagons, multiply it by, lets say, 20, and then insert that number into the "awnser" in the CB 36
14:30<@petern>do you actually code your NFO like that?
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14:31<DJNekkid>-1 * 0 02 00 D8 81 00 00 FF 01 <calculated number> 80 1F 1F AC 00
14:31<DJNekkid>petern: when i understand what i do, i do, if not, i split it much more up
14:31<frosch123>DJNekkid: so read the "consist length variable", use advancedvaraction2 to multiply it with the constant 20, clamp it at 255, and return the computed value
14:32<frosch123>have you used advanced varaction2 before?
14:32<DJNekkid>nope :)
14:32<frosch123>ok, i will set up an example :)
14:32<planetmaker>frosch123: is a very kind person :)
14:33<frosch123>just because I trust him to learn :)
14:33<pavel1269>hey planet :-)
14:33<planetmaker>DJNekkid: is also a very kind person :)
14:33<DJNekkid>i am?
14:33<planetmaker>hey pavel1269
14:34<DJNekkid>i were under the impression i were a nag ;)
14:34<planetmaker>DJNekkid: if you want to convince me of the opposite, you're sure free to do so :P
14:34<pavel1269>sure, i have no idea, what they are talking about .... just ... graphic coding? :-)
14:34<planetmaker>pavel1269: sure they are. But I like the outcome - I'm sure of it :)
14:35<pavel1269>same here :-)
14:35<planetmaker>he :)
14:35<planetmaker>2cc beta 3 or so in the pipe, DJNekkid ?
14:36<DJNekkid>well, that thing there is perhaps for the dutch trainset, but however, the same thing is most likely to apply to the 2cc set as well
14:36<planetmaker>ah, didn't know you were involved there, too :)
14:37<DJNekkid>me either
14:37<DJNekkid>but tbh, the grapics is nice, but its features suck, and grfmaker have some severe limitations
14:37<DJNekkid>so i thought i could help them, if they want it :)
14:37<planetmaker>ok... and your quest is to improve it, I gather :)
14:38<planetmaker>see... that's what nice people do :)
14:38<pavel1269>yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty = 255 will disallow traing to turn around?
14:38<planetmaker>yes, pavel1269
14:38<planetmaker>err... no
14:38<DJNekkid>my plan were to do one train first, and if they like my work, i could "do" the rest :)
14:38<planetmaker>wrong setting name
14:38<planetmaker>DJNekkid: sure it sounds like the plan usually to go for :)
14:39<DJNekkid>and when the var2's and stuff is done, it's easy to add the "good stuff"
14:39<DJNekkid>that is, what grapichs to put where
14:40<pavel1269>planetmaker: wait_oneway_signal = 255?
14:40<DJNekkid>as well as alignments...
14:40<planetmaker>pavel1269: that's one.
14:41<planetmaker>should be wait_pbs_signal or so
14:41<frosch123>DJNekkid: <- untested of course, so beware of syntax errors
14:41<frosch123>I never know, when to put spaces or no spaces in the escape sequences :)
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14:42<DJNekkid>so ... i would add <blabla> 80 1F 1F
14:42<DJNekkid>if u get my drift
14:42<pavel1269>anyidea why i cant setup dolar to show up? ... i set it ok ... exit, start and again pounds
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14:43<@petern>pavel1269: did you set it in game or at the start menu?
14:43<pavel1269>just trye d...... start,set,exit .... start,set,new game, exit .... and all possible ways
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14:44<@Rubidium>try making it possible for OpenTTD to write to the config file
14:45<pavel1269>O_o no setting saved
14:45<pavel1269>gonna delete config
14:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15698 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
14:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-13 18:45:47
14:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changed by Excel20 (1)
14:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 1 fixed by WhiteRabbit (1)
14:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 fixed by jpx_ (1)
14:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 fixed, 3 changed by planetmaker (4)
14:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 1 fixed by lorenzodv (1)
14:46<pavel1269>now just .... start,set,exit and it work .... some baaad values in config thought
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14:56<pavel1269>:-O where does OpenTTD save setting now? he wont create openttd.cfg now :/
14:56<planetmaker>different directory?
14:57<pavel1269>i have no other OTTD in my pc
14:57<@Rubidium>I suggest you to not read the readme. I also suggest to not search for openttd.cfg in said readme.
14:57<planetmaker>have a look at the readme
14:57<pavel1269>things changed till 11814 :-)
14:58<pavel1269>problem ... no readme :-D .... gonna serach somewhere in sources
14:58<DJNekkid>hmm ... didnt work too well ...
14:58<@Rubidium>hmm... how old is that version? At least since 0.1.4 there has been a readme
14:58<DJNekkid>tho, that may be my fault as well :)
14:59<@Rubidium>you didn't try finding the readme with windows search did you?
14:59<pavel1269>no i found it :D
14:59<pavel1269>its directly in sources ...
15:01<Alberth>pavel1269: also don't try finding the openttd.cfg file at your file system
15:01<pavel1269>so found openttd.cfg ... but game wont change it .... :-/
15:01<pavel1269>Alberth: so at yours? :-)
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15:01<Alberth>pavel1269: I know where it is :)
15:01<pavel1269>i know too :-)
15:02<OsteHovel^EEE>Im thinking of the process of compiling a crosscompiler to target i686-pc-linux-gnu at a i686-pc-cygwin.. yesterday i buildet one that targeted i586-mingw32 and then i used mingw-headers and w32api to get libs and includes but what is the name of the packages for linux?
15:02<pavel1269>but looks like ottd dont know it
15:03<@Rubidium>just a wild guess though
15:03<OsteHovel^EEE>Thanks Rubidium
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15:06<pavel1269> contain default values or what? ...
15:06<pavel1269>till i can change anythink and it wont remember
15:07<pavel1269>and not in openttd.cfg not even
15:07<@Rubidium> is where openttd writes the config to before renaming that file to openttd.cfg (and thus trashing the config)
15:08<@Rubidium>this to prevent truncation of the config file if your OS or openttd crashes while saving
15:08<@Rubidium>hmm... you aren't using any fancy characters in the path where openttd.cfg is, right?
15:09<@Rubidium>what's the path where openttd.cfg is?
15:09<@Rubidium>or rather where is
15:10<pavel1269>the one in document and setting deleted for sure :-P
15:10<@Rubidium>then I've got no clue, maybe glx has one
15:10<@Rubidium>but I reckon Windows is doing something unexcepted
15:11<pavel1269>the is rewriten (modified 20:11) and openttd.cfg remain unchanged (20:07)
15:12<@petern>unexcepted :D
15:12<pavel1269>and is same as ..... as excepted :-)
15:13<@Rubidium>there is no dog ;)
15:13*petern munches on (oven cooked) chinese
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15:19<pavel1269>hahaha found way to setup .... delete all config start .... SETUP ALL ... quit and it IS stored :-)
15:20<pavel1269>if i would find error, i would start playing other game :-)
15:22<energetic>Adding a setting means simply adding a field in the Settings struct?
15:23<pavel1269>then add where to show it in settings_gui.cpp and define .... it ... in settings.cpp
15:24<pavel1269>but .... rely on what you mean
15:25<planetmaker>energetic: yes. But you need to change three places
15:25<planetmaker>or files
15:25<planetmaker>if you want them accessible via gui that is
15:27<taisteluorava>Survivor S18E05 Youre Going to Want that Tooth HDTV XviD-FQM
15:27<taisteluorava>jeah, rakastan tätä hd aikakautta
15:28<@Belugas_Gone>don't say that again! it's OBSCENE
15:28<taisteluorava>ups, wrong channel ^^
15:28<@Belugas_Gone>WHAT? DON'T SAY THAT AGAIN! It's an abbreviation!!
15:33<insulfrog>gotta go
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15:51<pavel1269>anyone any idea about my openttd.cfg problem?
15:52<@Rubidium>yeah: Windows is fracking up
15:52<pavel1269>i already know that
15:52<pavel1269>but solution
15:52<pavel1269>where is no linux or penguin
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15:54<@Rubidium>solaris, bsd, morphos?
15:55<pavel1269>so, you just threw up win development or what? :-)
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15:57<pavel1269>comeon, its good system, you just must take care of it, like its pet or somethink ... sometimes you must go to doctor with it (format), but its okay
15:58<@Rubidium>why should I care about an OS I do not use and where there're plenty of others that do care?
16:00<pavel1269>because ... because .... jsut because :-P
16:00<@Belugas_Gone>and because others do not have yur problem on windows?
16:02<pavel1269>oh ... :-/
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16:02<pavel1269>may any patch fuck it up? :( ...
16:02<pavel1269>or, can i debugg somehow where is the problem?
16:04<pavel1269>gonna wait for glx, he have always ideas :-/
16:06<@Belugas_Gone>pavel1269: one very good solution is to OR use a nightly to test OR build a clean trunk
16:06<@Belugas_Gone>with patches, you never know
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16:07<pavel1269>those patches except one i use till 94xx
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16:07<pavel1269>and problem just now
16:07<pavel1269>the one is cargodest :-)
16:08<@Darkvater>pavel1269, your name is irritating
16:08<@Darkvater>I always thing it's petern who's talking
16:09<pavel1269>why irritating? :-/
16:09<@Darkvater>21:08 <@Darkvater> I always thing it's petern who's talking
16:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15699 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split Cmd* from vehicle.cpp to vehicle_cmd.cpp.
16:10<pavel1269>Darkvater: so look at second char ... of A its me, if E its petern :-P
16:10<@Darkvater>it still is :)
16:10<@Darkvater>a p is a p
16:11<pavel1269>come on .... so if planetmaker will talk, you will also think, its petern? :-)
16:11<@Darkvater>no, his name is too long
16:12<pavel1269>and petern is too short :-)
16:12<@Darkvater>no, it's close enough
16:12<pavel1269>you blind or somethink? :-D
16:12<pavel1269>i am more close to plant than pete
16:12<planetmaker>I'm sure, Darkvater does some think :)
16:12<@Darkvater>peter1138 is about the same length as pavel1269
16:12<@Darkvater>I don't care about planet
16:13<@Darkvater>that's a good thing planetmaker :)
16:13<@Darkvater>cause I'm not caring positively about pavel1269 right now
16:13<pavel1269>thats because of that numbers? :-)
16:13<@Rubidium>Darkvater: /ignore pavel1269 solves your issue
16:13<@Darkvater>I'm an advocate of free speech!
16:14*Darkvater would just rather kick him
16:14<@Darkvater>and MrFrans too
16:15<@Rubidium>Darkvater: kicking would undermine his free speech as you make it impossible for him to talk. Ignoring him on the other hand it in line with free speech as he can still talk, you just don't hear it.
16:15<planetmaker>he speaketh the truth me thinks
16:20<@Darkvater>hmm, what would you translate "wedstrijdleiding" to in english?
16:20<pavel1269>good to know, that even in clear trunk, its brokne for me
16:21<pavel1269>wet street dancing? :-)
16:22<@Belugas_Gone>[16:13] <@Darkvater> I'm an advocate of free speech! <--- well ... i read "french peech"
16:22*Belugas_Gone cleans his glasses
16:22<@Belugas_Gone>and pour some beer on it
16:22<@Darkvater>we now you're canadian Belugas_Gone :)
16:22<@Rubidium>Darkvater: depends on the context
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16:23<@Darkvater>what, no witty answer? ;)
16:23<pavel1269>if hes owned, he can kick you remotely right? :-)
16:23<@Rubidium>"guy in the high chair that occasionally gets molested by a player"
16:23<pavel1269>*if hes in owner list
16:24<@Darkvater>Rubidium: no, that's arbiter
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16:24<@Darkvater>more like organiser or something
16:24<@Darkvater>lost your beer :)
16:24<@Belugas_Gone>i didnot even realized Barkvater kicked me...
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16:24<@Belugas_Gone>i was ... elsewhere speaking SERIOUSLY
16:25<@Rubidium>Darkvater: isn't that the umpire?
16:26<@Darkvater>yes, that too, but I'm not looking for that :)
16:26<@Rubidium>chair umpire that is
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16:26<@Rubidium>"Committee of Management"
16:27<@Darkvater>that's close, I'll use that
16:27<@Rubidium>"Order of Play Sub-Committee"
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16:28<@Rubidium> <- pick any mentioned there I'd say
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16:30<@Darkvater>thx Rubidium
16:31<pavel1269>its simply command :P
16:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15700 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split Cmd* from signs.cpp to signs_cmd.cpp.
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16:57<pavel1269>does topics from OTTD development erase after like 2years? or somewhwere is archive
16:59<@Rubidium>talking about the forum?
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17:00<@Rubidium>nothing gets removed from there
17:00<@Rubidium>unless it's spam or illegal
17:01<pavel1269>hmm, gonna search harder
17:01<@Rubidium>what are you looking for?
17:02<pavel1269>i was searching with keyword and that, i posted there .... i just forget, that i used that patch but never posted a reply there ... :-/ .... found
17:02<pavel1269>stupid mistake
17:02<pavel1269>btw ... i "updated" to 15 500" and that openttd.cfg still wont update
17:03<pavel1269>but i am changing setting in start screen, do i have to change it ingame?
17:03<OsteHovel^EEE>are the openttd.cfg write-protected?
17:04<pavel1269>if you mean "read only" :-)
17:04<@Rubidium>that should be the right way to do it
17:04<pavel1269>but that will have to do openttd on its own ...
17:04<pavel1269>what? if i will set read only, it will work?
17:05<OsteHovel^EEE>if its read only then you cant write to it:P
17:05<@Rubidium>do you by a chance have a recent incarnation of Windows?
17:05<OsteHovel^EEE>are you using the newest SVN?
17:05<@Rubidium>i.e. not that one from 2002
17:05<@Rubidium>uhm... 2001 I mean
17:06<OsteHovel^EEE>(Im using Windows XP)
17:06<pavel1269>oste: you mean revision? tryed 15692 and now trying 15 500 :-)
17:06<pavel1269>Rubidium: maybye? :-)
17:06<@Rubidium>XP is from 2001
17:07<pavel1269>where can i check if i have "correct win" ? :-)
17:07<@Rubidium>do a reboot
17:07<pavel1269>MS win XP version 2002 SP 3
17:07<@Rubidium>then it'll tell what windows it's starting
17:08<pavel1269>XP :-)
17:08<pavel1269>just ask ... but use common expresions :-)
17:09*Rubidium wonders whether that version (=SP3) of XP also has that Vista annoyance of not being able to write to files in %programfiles%
17:09<pavel1269>i dont have openttd folder in program files
17:10<@Rubidium>r15500 also doesn't save?
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17:12<pavel1269>try even older?
17:12<pavel1269>like 14500 :-P
17:13<@Rubidium>if r15500 doesn't work then I've got absolutely no clue
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17:14<pavel1269>can i debug somehow where is the problem?
17:14<OsteHovel^EEE>Try this one: (please scan the .exe for virus before using... Its built on a Linux machine and is now hosted on a linux machine so it shoud not have any viruses, but just to be on the safe site) (SHA1: 1f82ccb883cd863ece487feb0e61adf30c81a4f9)
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17:15<@Rubidium>pavel1269: technically you should be able to debug it, but I can't help you
17:16<pavel1269>OsteHovel^EEE: if it is build on linux, how can i run it?
17:16<pavel1269>Rubidium: eh .... why so? ...
17:17<OsteHovel^EEE>pavel1269: its build on Linux to target Windows:p
17:17<OsteHovel^EEE>so its a .exe files inside the zip file... you can do something called "cross-compile" then you build a program for another platform...
17:17<OsteHovel^EEE>(i use 45 secounds to build openttd)
17:18<@Rubidium>pavel1269: because the last Windows I've worked with is 2000 (University) and the last Windows I've developed on was NT4.
17:19<@Rubidium>I basically haven't worked with Windows for well... this decade
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17:23<OsteHovel^EEE>if i have "touch openttd.cfg" in the same dir as openttd.exe when i start and then exit openttd i get the file
17:24<pavel1269>OsteHovel^EEE: same error as with my build
17:24<energetic>have today submitted patches any chance in getting 07?
17:24<OsteHovel^EEE>but its saves in my documents if i dont have openttd.cfg in same dir as the ..exe file (as normaly but there i dosent get the *.new file :P )
17:25<OsteHovel^EEE>(im compiling r15000)
17:25<pavel1269>lol i have all time after one run .new .... ottd cant delete him?
17:26<OsteHovel^EEE>its working in Revision R14999 :P
17:26<Zuu>energetic: Really depends on what it is. Is it a one-liner, then maybe. If it is something fancy new stuff then, chance is lower. But so far the 0.7.0 branch has not been created.
17:26<@Rubidium>as I said: rename fails on Windows
17:28<pavel1269>only rename ... the new setting isnt stored even in .new file
17:29<OsteHovel^EEE>In my openttd the .new file is about 8kb big...
17:29<pavel1269>in my eyes, it create file ... okay ... write ... okay .... but when ... create .. no, already exist, fail and return?
17:29<@Belugas_Gone>OsteHovel^EEE, pavel1269, have you checked if there is anything strange in the .new file?
17:30<@Belugas_Gone>i mean checking it all
17:30<@Belugas_Gone>from top to bottom
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17:30<OsteHovel^EEE>Belugas_Gone: i will try it now
17:30<@Belugas_Gone>scrutinized with GREAT care
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15701 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#2595]: Blame NewGRFs returning inconsistent information in purchase-list/after building before users have a chance to blame OpenTTD for incorrectly autorenewing/-replacing.
17:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15702 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp network/network_content_gui.cpp): -Feature(tte): direct content download 'links' in the play scenario/heightmap windows.
17:33<pavel1269>1 difference ..... in .new ... graphicsset = "", videodriver = "", musicdriver = "", sounddriver = "", blitter = "" .... in .cfg .... graphicsset = , videodriver = , musicdriver = , sounddriver = , blitter =
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17:35<pavel1269>same OsteHovel^EEE?
17:35<OsteHovel^EEE>i have a 0 byte openttd.cfg becouse i just make one using "touch openttd.cfg"
17:36<pavel1269>hehe, sure, if i create file openttd.cfg on my own and leave it empy, it is still empty :-)
17:36<OsteHovel^EEE>but the i full of info (Url:
17:37<pavel1269>good, same here
17:37<OsteHovel^EEE>(im gonna test in wine)
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17:39<OsteHovel^EEE>Exactly same behaviur in wine too...
17:40<pavel1269>so, no prob in win?
17:41<OsteHovel^EEE>(Wine = A way to run windows exe files under linux)
17:41<Zuu>energetic: no problems
17:41<@Rubidium>something working in wine and not working in Windows means wine isn't bug-for-bug compatible with Windows
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17:42<pavel1269>OsteHovel^EEE: it is or it isnt working for you?
17:42<@Rubidium>hmm... do you remember that great review about how bad wine was w.r.t. running viri?
17:42<OsteHovel^EEE>Under wine: you get the file | under windows xp: you get the file
17:43<pavel1269>i mean, can u change setting and ... will it save?
17:43<OsteHovel^EEE>Rubidium: i dont...
17:43<OsteHovel^EEE>pavel1269: 2 sec i will test
17:43<OsteHovel^EEE>the openttd.cfg Do not change
17:43<pavel1269>good, NOT alone ... and NOT win user ... :-)
17:44<pavel1269>interesting, that the bug survived over 150revs?
17:44<pavel1269>but we might have a bug ^^
17:44<OsteHovel^EEE>the bug only is there if you want your openttd.cfg in the same folder as openttd.exe
17:45<@Rubidium>well... the remains can't be a bug that survived 150 revs
17:45<pavel1269>i dont care if it remains or not
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17:45<pavel1269>i want to change settings
17:45-!-KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:45<pavel1269>OsteHovel^EEE: gonna try
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17:46<pavel1269>for me, dont even work when its in documents and setting
17:47<@Rubidium>how paradoxical... shouting when you've got a headache
17:47<pavel1269>if i shout, i am sorry? :-P
17:47<OsteHovel^EEE>openttd can save the first time i use it..
17:48<pavel1269>ye, same here :-)
17:48<OsteHovel^EEE>the secound time it just make the in my documents
17:48<OsteHovel^EEE>Where is the openttd.cfg are been saved in the soruce code of openttd?
17:48<pavel1269>search? :-P
17:49<OsteHovel^EEE>easier said than done
17:49*pavel1269 searching
17:49<Zuu>Is this a bug in last nightly affecting all windows users or is it only a corner case bug?
17:49<OsteHovel^EEE>we are not sure yet...
17:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r15703 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split Cmd* from waypoint.cpp to waypoint_cmd.cpp.
17:50<yorick>I noticed it too
17:51<pavel1269>Zuu, for sure, not just last :-)
17:51<pavel1269>OsteHovel^EEE: sth is in fileio.cpp
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17:55<Zuu>bug is present here on last nightly too (WinXP)
17:55<pavel1269>the bug is present even on 15500 :-) .... gonna serach more deeper
17:55<OsteHovel^EEE>ini.cpp | Line: 270
17:56<OsteHovel^EEE>its not there in R14999
18:02<Zuu> newname
18:02<Zuu> C string containing the new name for the file. This shall not be the name of an existing file; if it is, the behavior to be expected depends on the running environment, which may either be failure or overriding.
18:02<Zuu>(newname argument to rename function)
18:04<Zuu>so either the old file has to be ranamed to .old, before the new lose .new, or a move/copy function need to be found in some available API.
18:04<Zuu>which could include using a posisble shell command.
18:05<Zuu>As I can see, only rename and remove are functions for managing files available in stdio
18:06<pavel1269>so remove openttd.cfg .... new one? and remove .new? :-)
18:06<OsteHovel^EEE>1.. save 2. delete openttd.cfg 3. rename to openttd.cfg
18:06<Zuu>I'd say rename openttd.cfg to openttd.cfg.old; rename to openttd.cfg; remove openttd.cfg.old
18:07<pavel1269>same :-)
18:07<Zuu>so there can't be loss of data in case of a crash.
18:07<pavel1269>incase of crash well have current setting in .new :-)
18:07<@Belugas_Gone>supper's ready
18:08<@Belugas_Gone>for real
18:08<@Rubidium>Zuu: what about: "atomically rename" to openttd.cfg?
18:08<Zuu>Althouh it would be worth to try using simply rename before using the work-around, as the work around has a small risk of leaving a openttd.old file if it crashes.
18:08<Zuu>Rubidium: That would indeed be better.
18:09<@Rubidium>Zuu: that is EXACTLY what doesn't work for Windows!
18:09<Zuu>So might be better to try win32api or a shell command.
18:09<Zuu>Ie copy/move file.
18:09<pavel1269>copy :-)
18:10<pavel1269>system("copy openttd.cfg /y"); ? :-)
18:10<pavel1269>./y for overwrite
18:11<Zuu>You would need to read the status from that and if it succed remove the .new file, to make it consistent with the intended behaviour.
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18:19<@Rubidium>the intended behaviour can't be reached on windows anyways as it doesn't have fsync/fdatasync so you can't "force" the file to be written to the disk
18:19<@Rubidium>so whatever copying/checking/deleting you do afterwards can lead to a removed file
18:20<OsteHovel^EEE>So on windows you are never sure if the file is REALY written to the disk
18:22<@Rubidium>so I reckon, why do the effort
18:22<@Rubidium>especially when it doesn't have an atomic swap file so you can always end up with a missing openttd.cfg
18:22<Zuu>So instead make it save over the old corfig on windows?
18:23<Zuu>Isn't MoveFile from Win32API atomic?
18:24<OsteHovel^EEE>(Linux) Is it posible to join a network game with no Display( and no sound) ? also null-rendrer?
18:25<@Rubidium>I reckon it could be possible
18:26<@Rubidium>and I reckon MoveFile behaves like rename, i.e. don't overwrite existing files atomically
18:30<Zuu>I have no experience with it. But I see that MoveFileEx has a flag that make it not return before the file actually have been moved. But guess it does not make it atomic in the sense that if the power goes down at the wrong moment it could leave the file system in a bad state, because the operation was not completely executed.
18:31<Zuu>I saw there is a API function to flush a file, if you have a filehandle. But I have not tested it and you sond like you have been doing this stuff before and came to the conclusion that it don't work.
18:32<pavel1269>why dont we revert it just for win users to status, when it worked?
18:33<Zuu>Easiest would probably be to save over the old file directly on windows I guess.
18:36<OsteHovel^EEE>MoveFile do not write over the old file
18:36<OsteHovel^EEE>(just tested)
18:37<Zuu>OsteHovel^EEE: What happen if you use MoveFileEx and add the flag MOVEFILE_REPLACE_EXISTING?
18:37<Zuu>By the way how do you convert the chars to LPCTSTR?
18:37<pavel1269>Zuu: but said, its not safe
18:37<@Rubidium>likely big fat crash on "older" windowses
18:38<OsteHovel^EEE>Im gonna trye
18:39<OsteHovel^EEE>If you use MOVEFILE_REPLACE_EXISTING flag
18:39<OsteHovel^EEE>The file is overwritten
18:39<@Rubidium>now try that on win9x
18:40<pavel1269>rub, you are making me laught a lot :-)
18:40<OsteHovel^EEE>In other words: If you use MOVEFILE_REPLACE_EXISTING flag it works like a ordinary rename-linux
18:40<OsteHovel^EEE>I dont have win9X:p
18:40<pavel1269>gonna try that in school :-D
18:40<OsteHovel^EEE>but i can test it for you in windows 9x tomorrow if you want?
18:41<OsteHovel^EEE>i have both windows 95 and windows 98 at CD's and i have VmWare Workstation licence :p
18:41<@Rubidium>start with win95
18:42<OsteHovel^EEE>Minimum supported client Windows 2000 Professional
18:42<@Rubidium>there's no trace of evidence MoveFileEx works on win9x
18:42<OsteHovel^EEE>At the MDSN page for MoveFileEx
18:43<@Rubidium>OsteHovel^EEE: they don't mention lower versions because they aren't officially supported
18:44<Zuu>OsteHovel^EEE: Did you try using the flush from Win32API?
18:44<OsteHovel^EEE>but now its Good Night for me
18:44<@Rubidium>e.g. MoveFile's minimum version is 2000 according to the msdn
18:44<OsteHovel^EEE>i dident try flush
18:44<OsteHovel^EEE>i can try
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18:44<Zuu>the file handle f seam to work as argument to the flush-function, at least my compiler don't complain :-)
18:45<Zuu>But if it works, thats another question :)
18:45<@Rubidium>whereas other sources say it requires at least NT 3.1 or windows 95
18:45<@Rubidium>hmm... MoveFileEx: Requires Windows NT 3.1 or later; Win9x/ME: Not supported
18:45<pavel1269>gn ppl ... i wish u luck with Win :-)
18:46<Zuu>(haven't found out how to convert the strings, thats why I have not been able to test it myself)
18:46<OsteHovel^EEE>Good Night pavel1269 ...
18:46<OsteHovel^EEE>I will try out file moving tomorrow...
18:46<Zuu>Good night
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18:49<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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19:01<Yexo>good evening :)
19:01<Zuu>Hello Yexo :)
19:01<Nite_Owl>Hello Yexo
19:02<taisteluorava>oh, clock is 1.01 am already
19:02<Zuu>I updated my post on tt-forums, but couldn't motivate an "I have updated the first post message"
19:02<Zuu>Esp. since I have posted 9 messages on 13:th march allready :)
19:02<Yexo>Zuu: at the time I wrote that I thought the first post was by me, I tried to update the first post directly after that message, failed :P, and correct my message
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19:03<Nite_Owl>The wonders of time zones
19:04<Zuu>Yexo: hehe, good you're not yet a moderator then as then you would start editing all various posts :)
19:04<Yexo>I wouldn't ahve changed it then either
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19:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15704 /trunk/src/ (11 files): -Cleanup: remove further includes from recently split files
19:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r15705 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: Do not show passenger-/mail-capacity if the aircraft carries only cargo.
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20:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r15706 /trunk/src/ (fios.cpp stdafx.h): -Fix: Make sure the filename passed to unlink() is always in file system encoding.
20:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r15707 /trunk/src/ini.cpp: -Fix (r15686): The config file was not updated on Windows because rename() can't replace existing files.
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20:41<[s]>hello :)
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21:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15708 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#2728]: Pop up the AI Debug Window if one of the AIs crashed and show a message that the user should report the crash.
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22:00<Yexo>Some screenshots from a new (scripted) map generator:
22:01<FauxFaux>screenshot_1 is your girlfriend?
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22:06<energetic>we want harder maps
22:08<Yexo>like 7?
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22:09<energetic>7 is a good start ;)
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22:11<Yexo>good night
22:12<MrFrans>good nigth
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 14 00:00:53 2009