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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-03-16

---Logopened Mon Mar 16 00:00:53 2009
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03:19<@petern>automatic bouncer joining? how antisocial
03:27<dih>no, was a bouncer upgrade, that required a restart ;-)
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03:33<@petern>unless all those people are here right now, that was automatic joining :p
03:34<@petern>clones, we used to call them
03:34<@petern>banned, they used to be
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04:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15739 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Codechange: Expose GRF ID of engines in var action property 0x25.
04:04<dih>petern, they follow the backlog they get ;-)
04:07<dih>besides - most people in here are not 'there' :-P
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04:20<Noldo>racetrack: how's your patch?
04:21<racetrack>Noldo: looking good so far. its working for rvs now too
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04:26<racetrack>grumble wireless
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04:30<racetrack>ahh crap
04:31<racetrack>don't you love it when something that initially seemed trivial suddenly turns into a horrendous nightmare
04:31<Noldo>what did you break?
04:33<racetrack>currently a drive-through rail depot joins track on both sides of the depot into a single signal block. that was my cheap and nasty hack, I knew I needed to do more to make it work properly but I'm only just getting to it now
04:33<racetrack>so I've spent a couple of hours studying ExploreSegment()
04:33<racetrack>and its just hit me how hard it is
04:33<racetrack>at least I think
04:34<racetrack>basically I want a seperate signal block on each side of the depot, but both including the depot, and taking the trains direction into account
04:34<racetrack>so a train leaving from one side doesn't block a train leaving from the other side
04:35<racetrack>but the code that figures out if there's a train in a block has no concept of the "current" train
04:35<racetrack>so I have nothing to check the direction of
04:35<racetrack>there'll be a hacky way around it, of course, but it intially felt easy. now I'm facing a couple of evenings of studying the code before I get something
04:36<racetrack>but you know, boo hoo :)
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04:47<racetrack>hmm. I may have an idea
04:47<racetrack>ugly, but if it works ..
04:47*racetrack hacks
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04:57<@Darkvater>dih: what is awesome?
04:57<@Darkvater>morning all
05:01<racetrack>bah no go
05:01<dih>i love what you did with openttdlib ;-)
05:01<dih>and will add it in some way at some point :-)
05:02<@Darkvater>oh, that :). sorry dih, some timewarp lost the context
05:03<dih>no problem ;-)
05:04<dih>your email with "no, no, no" did though make me laugh ^^
05:09<@Darkvater>hey, we're having a RC1 already?
05:09<@Darkvater>sweet mother of god
05:15<@Darkvater>the RC
05:15<@Darkvater>can't believe I missed it
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05:17<Noldo>maybe it could be added to the topic too
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05:18-!-petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3, 0.7.0-RC1 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only | Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence
05:19<@Darkvater>hihi, I like the last item
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05:20<SpComb>so we can discuss the lack of unrealism instead
05:26<dih>SpComb, your logs of #oftc seem to be .... missing ;-)
05:33<dih>aye ^^
05:33<dih>at least, it looks like it from your log viewer ;-)
05:34<SpComb>but who cares about any kind of #oftc logs? :/
05:34<@Darkvater>I did!
05:34<@Darkvater>for a very long time I was lurking the logs
05:34<SpComb>I'm more worried about the logs having gotten segmented into two after 2009-02-14
05:34<dih>well, i tried to get hold of them
05:35<SpComb>Darkvater: #openttd logs != #oftc logs
05:35<dih>i wanted those from yesterday and today ;-)
05:36<@Darkvater>then I retract my statement
05:36<dih>i read an reply from weasel but did not have the question ^^
05:38<SpComb>dih: they don't exist
05:38<SpComb>it only ever was the one day
05:41<dih>oh, right, ok
05:41<dih>thanks though :-)
05:45*petern remembers the good old days of chasing around to get release binaries...
05:45<@petern>when nightlies were often different revisions for different OSes...
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05:50<dih>ouch ^^
05:50*dih wonders if good old DASPRiD is 'round ^^
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05:54*DASPRiD is pretty round
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06:14*DASPRiD pokes dih
06:14<dih>hey ho
06:14<dih>are you interested in writing some zend app for me? :-P
06:17<colde>Zend as en zend framework?
06:18<dih>... yes?...
06:19<Timitry> so not true
06:19<Timitry>that away message :D
06:19<dih>who's away message?
06:19<DASPRiD>dih, again? ;>
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06:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15740 /trunk/src/ (namegen.cpp namegen_func.h strings.cpp): -Codechange: make code in namegen.cpp ~50% faster, apply coding style and add comments
06:53<Noldo>which part of the patch is the making faster one
06:53<SmatZ>Noldo: not using temporal buffer and using strecpy instead of strecat
06:57<@petern>right, so it doesn't keep scanning for \0 every time
07:02<@petern>dih: whose
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07:37<dih>petern, thanks
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08:18<wrudolph>Does anybody know the official irc server of #openttdcoop?
08:18<wrudolph> seems to be down
08:18<@Rubidium>the one you're connected to now?
08:19<dih>join #openttdcoop
08:19<dih>click ^
08:19<wrudolph>(and bye *g*)
08:20<dih>have fun playing
08:20*petern ponders updating his server
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08:21<@petern>too late, did it :D
08:24<@Rubidium>the RC is a nightly?
08:25<@petern>shut up
08:25<dih>was it not built in the night? ^^
08:25<@petern>it means i only play night *nods*
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08:26<@petern>it's been running beta1 & 2 for ... well a short time :p
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08:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15741 /trunk/src/namegen.cpp: -Fix (r15740): czech town name generator needs very long buffer, use different min size for each generator
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08:57<@petern>Name },
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09:10<taisteluorava>hm, openGFX terrain is nice but it take black borders away from map and add "water" instead. Is somewhere any swhich with i can turn black borders back?
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09:13<dih>afaik, as long as you use opengfx: no
09:13<dih>but you should check that with the opengfx guys in the forums (?)
09:13<Aali>its not water anymore, they changed it to black
09:13<dih>ah, old version ^^
09:13<Aali>but the terrain newgrf is outdated compared to the base graphics set
09:14<Ammler>but there should also be a updated newgrf version of.
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09:15<Ammler>version 0.4b, iirc
09:17<taisteluorava>so its "fixed" in 0.4b?
09:17<@petern>Ammler: +it
09:17<@petern>you are forever leaving off that word
09:17<Ammler>:-D really sorry about.
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09:26<taisteluorava>thx guys, now have that openGFXterrain0.4b which have those black borders. Now it looks much better. BTW can someone add that into ingame online content?
09:27<@Rubidium>only the opengfx authors can do that and well... they most likely won't as there's the base graphics pack
09:28<@petern>opengfx already has black edge tiles
09:28<@petern>so yeah, use the base graphics, not the old newgrfs
09:29<Ammler>opengfx newgrfs aren't supported officially ;-)
09:29<taisteluorava>but openGFX is not completed and got those black boxes
09:30<Ammler>well, not, if you use trainsets
09:30<@petern>Ammler, and temperate
09:30<Forked>rick rolling is considered quite evil, right? we just ordered the "ultimate collection" cd to a coworker :\ he will get it in his mailbox in about a week
09:30<Ammler>and a house set might also be needed.
09:31<taisteluorava>but when i use trainset like nars2 or something like that, there is like 20 diffrent trains in list and it really suck
09:31<@petern>too much choice for you?
09:31<taisteluorava>yep, i cant handle it ^^
09:32<taisteluorava>some them are unbalanced and you can get those antique trains in 2050
09:32<taisteluorava>why then doesent go away when they got "old"
09:32<taisteluorava>in that train purache list
09:33<taisteluorava>like with eGrvts you can buy horses in 2050, what is idea of that? ^^
09:34<Forked>there is a setting for that
09:34<Aali>turn off the vehicles never expire setting
09:34<@petern>well if you're turned on vehicles never expire then they will
09:34<Aali>and I doubt horses will be extinct by 2050
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09:48<[wito]>eGRVTS needs more rickshaws. :P
09:50<@Belugas>[09:35] <taisteluorava> like with eGrvts you can buy horses in 2050, what is idea of that? ^^ <-- never heard of the amish?
09:51<@Belugas>and further on, it's a game, for god sake...
09:51<@Belugas>nothuing more
09:51<@Belugas>nothing less
09:52<Forked>but it's not realistic!11one ;)
09:52<+glx>who knows what will happen in 2050 anyway
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09:53<@Belugas>Forked, may I simply add this: WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!
09:56<Forked>Belugas: I was just kidding.. therefor the "11one" bit :p
09:56<dih>Forked.... eleven
09:56<@petern>glx: the world will be replaced with a score board?
09:56<Forked>I know how you feel about the realistic argument :)
09:57<@Darkvater>remember the topic!
10:01<@Belugas>what does 11one means?
10:01<@Belugas>i'm lost reagrding those acronymns
10:02<Forked>it's me letting go of shift while making a bunch of exclamation points.. and following up with typing the number so it's hopefully a bit more clear I'm not being serious
10:02<pavel1269>Belugas: it means "!!!" :-)
10:02<dih>Belugas, have you ever seen people type a bunch of !!!!!
10:02<dih>and at some point miss out the shift key?
10:02<Forked>no it doesn't :\
10:03<dih>just takes the mickey out of that
10:03<dih>making the point that what was said is a joke / is rubbish
10:03<@Belugas>i remember seen WITH!!!!, a few other occurences in here, but i never stopped at figuring it, honestly
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10:11<Forked>anyway, I was just kidding :)
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10:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15742 /trunk/src/ai/ai_info.cpp: -Fix (r15736): AIs with an invalid info.nut weren't ignored anymore.
10:44<DASPRiD>“If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.” – Edsger Dijkstra
10:44<+glx>so true
10:45<Forked>so we should call it "bugging" instead?
10:51<@Belugas>well... in that case, i might say there are a lot of users whoa re already bugging..
10:51*Forked shuts up
10:51<guru3>random question: how do you define a rainstorm?
10:52<DASPRiD>guru3, rain comming from the sky
10:52<DASPRiD>and some storming with that
10:52<Forked>in a storm
10:52<[wito]>if it's a storm (winds over so-and-so fast) and it's raining, it's a rainstorm
10:52<guru3>what if you can't see or hear?
10:52<@Belugas>#define rainstorm EVENT_RAIN + EVENT_STORM
10:52<DASPRiD>that was a pretty random question tho
10:52<DASPRiD>Belugas, hehe
10:52<[wito]>yeah, Belugas has it
10:52<DASPRiD>Belugas, you mean
10:52<guru3>has to do with my dissertation :/
10:53<@Rubidium>Belugas: "#define rainstorm" is enough to define it
10:53<guru3>what ammount of rain constitutes a storm?
10:53<guru3>over what duration?
10:54<@Belugas>less than 40 days and 40 night. After than, it's a fload
10:54<@Belugas>as dih would confirm you ^_^
10:55<guru3>anyone with some slightly more serious ideas?
10:56<guru3>i have a massive dataset of rain, and i need to decide how to pick out storms
10:57<[wito]>guru3: well, anything even remotely approaching torrential would probably be a rainstorm
10:57<guru3>sure, 1mm/min
10:57<guru3>that's obviously a storm
10:57<@Rubidium>0.2 - 0.3 L of water? (as per: storm in a glass of water)
10:57<[wito]>guru3: you can't really define a storm without wind data
10:57<[wito]>A torrent? Sure
10:57<[wito]>A downpour? Deffo!
10:58<guru3>all ive got is rainfall data
10:58<[wito]>An utter soak? You betcha!
10:58<guru3>and Rubidium, you can't use volumes of water -_-
10:58<[wito]>But a storm, that's the wind mate
10:58<guru3>ok, i guess i shouldn't use storm so casually... extended periods of rain generally associated with storms
10:58<@Rubidium>storms are based on speed of wind
10:58<guru3>events that aren't a spattering
10:59<guru3>ok, storm is the wrong word
10:59<guru3>call it how do i tell when it's raining
10:59<guru3>without just spattering
10:59<guru3>now it just sounds stupid though
10:59<@Belugas>[10:59] <@Rubidium> 0.2 - 0.3 L of water? (as per: storm in a glass of water) <--- ROFL!!! I loVE IT!!
11:00<@Rubidium>guru3: is very light rain also rain?
11:00<@Rubidium>guess rain starts at 1.0mm/h
11:00<@Rubidium>drizzle at 0.25mm/h
11:00<guru3>i guess i'm looking for the ammount of rain over time that doesn't infiltrate or get intercepted
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11:03<@petern>mm/h is a very slow speed ;)
11:04<@Rubidium>lets measure it in parsec per second ;)
11:04<guru3>i think that 1mm/h would in the first hour be entirely intercepted/infiltrated
11:05<@Rubidium>that totally depends on the preexisting conditions
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11:05<guru3>assuming a ADWP of at least a week
11:05<@Rubidium>a what?
11:05<guru3>crap i can't spell it
11:05<guru3>antecedent dry weather period
11:06<guru3>~= ammount of time since it last rained
11:06<DASPRiD>class EventStorm extends EventRain { }
11:06<+glx>well extra dry and extra wet can have the same effect for a rain ammount
11:06<@Rubidium>hmm... we should try ADWP ;) (one of it's other definitions)
11:06<@Rubidium>guru3: even then it depends on the preexisting conditions
11:06<@petern>it's quite warm today
11:07<guru3>but even if it does, i don't have that information
11:07<@Rubidium>if it has been foggy around freezing for the whole week the results would be different from when it
11:07<guru3>assuming a temperate climate
11:07<@Rubidium>was 40 degrees celsius for a week with very low humidity
11:09<@Rubidium>that doesn't say much either...
11:09<@Rubidium>I guess you should get your preconditions straight or just go with an arbitrary number
11:10<guru3>i'm thinking it's going to be arbitrary
11:10<@Rubidium>and what says that rain intercepted before reaching the ground is actually measured?
11:10<guru3>probably going for 0.8mm/10 minutes
11:10<guru3>and i'm using rain guage data
11:11<@Rubidium>wikipedia classifies that at heavy rain
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11:11<@Rubidium>guru3: I need to give you a link? You can't guess it?
11:12<guru3>i'm assuming an obvious page then?
11:12<@Rubidium>actually... it's the first result of google with the obvious keyword when looking for rain
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11:17<@Rubidium>guru3: were you able to find the wikipedia page?
11:17<Lukas>gibts einen deutschen entwickler hier?
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11:18<guru3>it's taking ages to go through a mere 100000 minutes of data D:
11:18<guru3>i may need to come up with a better way of doing this
11:19<@Rubidium>you know it actually took like 3 months to gather that data? ;)
11:19<guru3>i've only got data going back to december 2006
11:19<guru3>it's a pain in the ass
11:20<guru3>i don't have enough memory to do the entire dataset at once
11:20<@Rubidium>so anything that's faster than 3 months can process it in real time ;)
11:21<guru3>that's good at least
11:21<guru3>because i do have to do real-time analysis
11:21<guru3>but i've got to do this backlog first
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11:23<@Rubidium>why do you need to have the whole dataset in memory anyways?
11:23<@Rubidium>just mmap the dataset
11:24<guru3>not working in c
11:24<guru3>or any high level language
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12:00<DASPRiD>petern, you aren't pretty :X
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12:00<DASPRiD>by the way, was my grf decoder completly used in the newgrf repos?
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12:23<eQualizer>Has there been a change in how you convert trains from one tracktype to another?
12:24<@petern>no, you can't do that
12:24<eQualizer>Train should preserve it's orders if I sell it, convert depot, and build a new train?
12:25<@petern>i wouldn't say 'preserve'
12:26<eQualizer>What would be more proper word?
12:27<+glx>latest sold train orders are 'preserved'
12:28<@petern>well, it's not the train preserving anything, he
12:28<Ammler>eQualizer: I would first build the new train and clone the orders
12:28<SmatZ>but you have to use the same depot for buying next vehicle
12:28<Ammler>then delete the obsolete trains...
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12:30<eQualizer>Ah, now I got it. The orders weren't copied because I accidently moved wagons to another line, and then sold everything on the depot.
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12:33<@Belugas>for the very first time in say... 2 years, i took the time to sit down in the cafeteria, eat and read
12:33<@Belugas>i feel good
12:34<@Belugas>was a book on guitars, different makers, models and so on
12:34<@Belugas>very nice book
12:34<@Belugas>for those who like guitar books...
12:34<@Belugas>of course of course
12:34<yorick>sorry to hear that belugas
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12:35<@petern>i suck on guitar :(
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12:36<@Rubidium>my eyes!
12:38<Everest>what's new in 0.7.0? except download manager
12:38<@petern>that's it
12:38<@Belugas>petern, i suck on keyboard much more than you on guitar!
12:38<@petern>rubbish, for i suck on keyboard too
12:39<Yexo>Everest: read
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12:42<@Rubidium>Yexo, a more interesting question would be: what's new and isn't in 0.7.0
12:43<@petern>nested widgets!
12:43<@petern>rail types
12:43*Rubidium was thinking about newai ;)
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12:53<[wito]>And MapGen Script. ;)
12:53<@Belugas>removal or realism!!
12:53<Yexo>Belugas: that isn't new!
12:54<Yexo>[wito]: speaking about that, did you create a nice mapgen script yet?
12:54<wision>if you want realism, start your own transport company irl :)
12:54<@Belugas>[12:40] <@petern> rubbish, for i suck on keyboard too <-- well... sice you NEVER sent me anything, i cannot judge :D
12:54<[wito]>Yexo: working on it. :P
12:54<@Belugas>Yexo : indeed :D
12:55<@Belugas>wision, i dering to you widsom
12:55<@petern>oh dear
12:55<@Belugas>.... already drunk
12:55<@petern>that sounded like a hint
12:55<@Belugas>was it?
12:55<@petern>"since i never sent you anything" :o
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12:55<@petern>pom te pom
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13:22<frosch123>petern: since when do we use variables in the range 0x00 - 0x3F for feature-specific stuff, eh?
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13:26<@petern>it's not feature specific
13:26<@petern>i just didn't bother adding it to the others
13:26<@petern>feel free to change it to something better, it's not documented on the wiki
13:27<frosch123>hmm, you mean also for houses, industries and industry tiles
13:27<@petern>(mainly because there's little point)
13:28<frosch123>currently only industries would be accessible from industrytiles of other newgrf
13:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15743 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move the definitions of some fake squirrel types to their own file.
13:32<@Belugas>reminds me i've got to look for that house prop 15 stuff..
13:35<@Belugas>and work on newobjects, of course of course
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13:36<frosch123>hmm, picka has still not explained, why it is important whether there are 255 houses or 400 of on type
13:36<Yexo>It's the local counts that I'm concerned with, mainly so I can balance the different classes of building in the city. <- He did
13:37<frosch123>but the can already do that with the appearance property
13:38<Yexo>not if you want it to balance differntly depending on some other variable
13:40<frosch123>iirc there are also random bits in the "allow construction"-callback
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13:40<Yexo>in that case I have to agree with you that it's already possible
13:40<frosch123>hmm, no, that was another request we turned down :p
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13:42<frosch123>fs2076 :)
13:43*Belugas wonders if we should not have something more flexible for those grf variables
13:43<@Belugas>dunno what
13:43<@Belugas>just.. wondering
13:44<Yexo>Belugas: seeing some recent discussion, I agree, but I don't think that's possible without 1) breaking current newgrfs or 2) Duplicating lots of code
13:44<frosch123>we need a "variable translation table" :p
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13:49<@Belugas>i agree to you 3
13:52<frosch123>hmm, in fact, adding a custom mapping of variable number to 4-byte-identifier (which is resolved on loading) would quite likely solve the limited-slots problem, and we can happily waste the remaining ones.
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13:54<@Belugas>that was the idea behind my wondering indeed
13:54<@Belugas>but that would leave Patch with a real problem to solve, if ever a will to solve it arise
13:57<frosch123>would it? don't know. maybe it is just a problem for grfcreators
13:59<frosch123>however, it is quite downwards compatible, and we do not have to duplicate any code
14:00<Yexo>that sounds like a very nice solution
14:00<frosch123>but likely not for 0.7 :)
14:00<Yexo>of course not
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14:06<@petern>GIGANTIC, GIGANTIC, GIGANTIC, a big big love
14:07*frosch123 was just watching a video about a new japanese female roboter
14:07<frosch123>I cannot agree with you
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14:15<George>frosch123: Should ARV overtake other ARV if it is broken?
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14:16<frosch123>iirc arv cannot be overta - hmm - whatever
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14:17<frosch123>but that is more a question for rubidium :)
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14:24<George>Rubidium: Should ARV overtake other ARV if it is broken?
14:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r15744 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9667): when town generator failed to create requested number of towns, there were too many cities
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15:27<pavel1269>hmm how do i disable train turning at pbs signal ...
15:27<pavel1269>tryed wait_oneway_signal = 255 and wait_twoway_signal = 255
15:27<pavel1269>doesnt work
15:27<frosch123>there is also some wait_pbs_signal
15:28<SmatZ>it's something like "wait_free_pbs_way" or so :)
15:29<pavel1269>wait_for_pbs_path ... all three to 255?
15:29<SmatZ>give it a try :)
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15:31<pavel1269>okay, all three work :-)
15:34<pavel1269>okay ....
15:35<pavel1269>why i dont see a point in three settings :-)
15:35<pavel1269>btw ... only wait_for_pbs_path to 255 is enought, whats point in other settings?
15:36<pavel1269>maybye i know now, nvm me
15:36<Yexo>the others are for normal one-way signals and normal two-way signals
15:37<pavel1269>well, if i set this wait_for_pbs_path to 255 .... it "overdrive" them
15:37<SmatZ>not all people use PBS, are not all people use ONLY PBS
15:37<pavel1269>and they wont turn arond at all
15:37<pavel1269>okay ...
15:38<@petern>i do :D
15:39<pavel1269>well i play also ONLY with PBS :-)
15:39<pavel1269>btw, any messages from celestar peter?
15:41<pavel1269>did i miss something?
15:42<@petern>did i?
15:42<pavel1269>i dont know :-/
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15:48<Zuu>I've just written an AI that builds cars that randomly drives aronud in cities. Any name ideas? Mine are CityCarsAI, RandomCarAI, CongestionAI.. Best descriptive I think CityCarAI, but I don't like the CC-abbrevation. Coke and Cancer don't make any good for an AI.. :s hmm TownCarsAI could work. Any ideas?
15:48<pavel1269>TCAI is ok
15:48<frosch123>PublicTraffic, HeavyTraffic
15:49<pavel1269>Zuu: whats point of that ai?
15:49<Zuu>pavel1269: ^^ Eyecandy
15:50<Zuu>Or making congested streets if you configure it to put 50 cars in each town :)
15:51<Zuu>PublicTraffic is a bit silly, as you probably will use it with a car GRF, and not with buses.
15:52<@Belugas>ho my god! It's what the whole community was begging for, since eons!
15:52<Zuu>TownCarsAI I think it will be.
15:53<Zuu>Belugas: How much are you paying me for holding it up a month? ;-) Keeping reality away a little more. :)
15:53<frosch123>the longer you hold it back, the longer you can enjoy this place before being banned
15:54<frosch123>what did you expect?
15:55<Zuu>frosch123: hehe :-D
15:59<@petern>call it 'Town Polluting Artificial Unintellience'
15:59<@petern>or T'Pau for short
16:00<Zuu>Hmm, would be silly to make this the first of my AIs that have the AI suffix in the name :-)
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16:00<pavel1269>TownCarsAI dont have it? :-)
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16:01<Zuu>It have, yes, so perhaps it should be just TownCars :)
16:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: orudge * r15745 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix: Resolve compile error in fileio.cpp on OS/2 - base paths on OS/2 behave much like DOS
16:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: orudge * r15746 /trunk/src/thread_os2.cpp: -Fix: Update threading code for OS/2, add mutex support
16:06<@petern>orudge commits
16:06<@petern>how rare
16:06<frosch123>more rare than os/2 ?
16:07<+glx>similar ;)
16:12<@Rubidium>George: it's coded not to do it
16:13<@orudge>petern: it happens based upon a peculiar combination of the phase of the moon and the state of the local sewage network
16:13<George>Rubidium: Unfortunately, when many ARVs are runinng on the road, that leads to lots' of jams. Any chance to change it?
16:13<@orudge>hmm, my last commit before that was January 2008, whee.
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16:19<pavel1269>wow, oruge is alive ... once again :-)
16:20<@Rubidium>George: there's a chance, but it's pretty slim because the overtake code is kinda complex
16:21<@orudge>pavel1269: I've never been dead, just busy ;)
16:21<pavel1269>j know :-)
16:21<George>is there a task for that on or I need to make one?
16:22<pavel1269>i just remmeber as you were talking about your current project .... somethink with in-game music :-)
16:22<pavel1269>but its rare to see you :-)
16:22<@orudge>well, yes
16:22<yorick>orudge is undead, but it's secret ;)
16:22<pavel1269>same as with Darkvater :-)
16:22<@Rubidium>George: no idea, but I there's a fair chance someone made that feature request already
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16:22<pavel1269>yorick: nice secret, now over 100ppl know it :-P but ... shhhhh :-)
16:23<yorick>oh, oops...
16:24<George>Rubidium: Quick search was not successful. So I'll make one
16:27*Brianetta is compiling RC1
16:27<Brianetta>Just so you know
16:27<SmatZ>Brianetta: good to know :)
16:28<@Rubidium>so you're the culprit why I couldn't join a 0.7.0-RC1 server when I wanted to
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16:39<fonsinchen>Has anyone had a look at the diagonal levelling patchs? FS#730
16:45<SmatZ>a long time ago :-x
16:45-!-Nite_Owl [] has joined #openttd
16:45<SmatZ>but yes, I noticed there was a new version uploaded :)
16:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15747 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2736]: road ownership getting lost when removing a road stop.
16:46<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:47<Brianetta>network/network_server.cpp doesn't compile
16:47<Nite_Owl>Hello pavel1269
16:47<pavel1269>u broke it Brianetta? :-)
16:47<Brianetta>/home/autopilot/openttd-svn/src/network/network_server.cpp: In function 'void NetworkAutoCleanCompanies()':
16:47<Brianetta>/home/autopilot/openttd-svn/src/network/network_server.cpp:1448: error: expected primary-expression before '<<' token
16:47<Brianetta>I doubt it
16:47<Brianetta>but I might
16:47<@Rubidium>Brianetta: try svn diff
16:47<SmatZ>[21:47:41] <DorpsGek> CompileFarm: strgen (r15718) completed.
16:48<@Rubidium>it'll show that you've got a unresolved conflict
16:48*Brianetta reverts *and* cleans
16:49<Brianetta>I should bind that to a hot key or somethign
16:49<Brianetta>then label that key "fix it"
16:49<@Rubidium>sounds like you svn switched from 0.6.3 with the custom disable unprotecting protected companies "patch"
16:50<Brianetta>I suppose I should see what the latest versions of these newgrfs in my pack are
16:50<pavel1269>or bind under win buttom .... as soon as you see win you think of bug :-)
16:50<Brianetta>Win is bound to Super
16:50<Ammler>maybe you don't need them anymore?
16:50<Ammler>me? yes :-)
16:50<Brianetta>Ammler: Maybe... but once can't be sure that the old crap in my pack is on the master server's list
16:51<Brianetta>pavel1269: It's a Unix mask key
16:51<Brianetta>Ctrl, ALt, Super, Meta, Shift, Coke-bottle
16:51<Ammler>pgs isn't
16:51<pavel1269>then ... F1? :-)
16:51<Ammler>but pikkas should be
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16:54<pavel1269>gn ppl
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17:00*Belugas is going zhome
17:00<@Belugas>good night zall
17:00<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
17:01-!-mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by DorpsGek
17:05<Brianetta>Are Blunck's newgrfs available on the master server?
17:05<Ammler>not yet
17:05<Brianetta>I did wonder (:
17:05<Brianetta>but I am not surprised
17:06<Ammler>I made a bet with pm, that dbset 9 will be
17:07<frosch123>sound like a bet for your children
17:08<Brianetta>Blunck can't stand OpenTTD
17:09<@Rubidium>Brianetta: he has a bad way of showing that
17:09<Brianetta>It's amazing
17:10<@Rubidium>e.g. the german translation of OpenTTD topic has 5 of his posts on the first page
17:10<Brianetta>I sit and read some of his posts, understanding the words but not the sentiment.
17:10<Brianetta>Unless he;s recently had a massive change of heart
17:10<@Rubidium>and soon I've got THE perfect counter strike for when he tells PBS has been in TTDP for 4 years
17:10<Brianetta>in which case, I'll check to see if he's re-worded his license on newstations
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17:13<@petern>Rubidium: not in any stable release :D
17:13<Brianetta>What's this counter? (:
17:14<@Rubidium>counter? where?
17:16<Brianetta>"THE perfect counter strike"
17:17<Brianetta>In Englich, the word "counter" can be used as a noun for something that counters something else
17:17<Brianetta>English, too
17:17<Brianetta>as well as somethign that counts
17:17<Brianetta>or a bench top
17:17<Brianetta>or a token
17:17<Brianetta>wow, that word's quite a busy onwe
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17:18<@Rubidium>oh, well... I meant it as an adverb
17:19<Brianetta>but the noun-phrase "counter strike" is, along with others like "counter argument", a "counter"
17:19<Brianetta>what's this counter [strike]? (-:
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17:21<Yexo>Brianetta: petern already told you so :p
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17:21<Brianetta>[21:13] <petern> Rubidium: not in any stable release :D
17:21<Brianetta>That's not telling me
17:21<Brianetta>That's telling me not
17:22<Yexo>"PBS has been in TTDP for 4 years" "Not in any stable release"
17:22<Brianetta>Oh, I thought he meant "... of OpenTTD"
17:23<Brianetta>but yeah, that's pretty cool
17:24<+glx>though it's not in a stable OTTD release either ;)
17:24<Brianetta>It will be
17:25<Brianetta>0.x is stable
17:25<Brianetta>defined as, only bug fixes are applied
17:25<+glx>true, but it's a RC for now
17:25<Brianetta>Stability is in the fact that no new feature will come and b0rk it up
17:25<Brianetta>It is, yes
17:26<Brianetta>A candidate for the anti-Blunck bazooka
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17:49<Brianetta>What makes Makefile.bundle ?
17:50<Brianetta>Is there any way to tell configure to try harder?
17:50<Brianetta>.....Generating Makefile...
17:50<Brianetta>Generating lang/Makefile...
17:50<Brianetta>Generating objs/Makefile...
17:50<Brianetta>brian@lydia ~/openttd-0.7> make
17:50<Brianetta>Makefile:152: Makefile.bundle: No such file or directory
17:51<Brianetta>Perhaps a cache file to delete?
17:52<@SmatZ>Brianetta: somehow it works for me (make bundle)
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17:53<@Rubidium>Brianetta: it makes Makefile.bundle after Makefile and before lang/Makefile (doesn't tell about it though)
17:53<@Rubidium>it not working is odd cause it's a simple cp
17:54<@Rubidium>there're probably changes there too and you only reverted src
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17:55<Brianetta>There shouldn't be any changes in this one
17:55<Brianetta>It's my client
17:56<Brianetta>Revision: 15747
17:56<Brianetta>configure contains no reference at all to Makefile.bundle
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17:57<@Rubidium>Brianetta: neither for
17:57<Brianetta>E486: Pattern not found: bundle 131,0-1 Bot
17:57<@Rubidium>well... then your checkout is broken
17:57<Brianetta>I just switched from 0.6.3
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17:58<@Rubidium> <- line 133 contains
17:58<@petern>did you switch from the src directory or something? heh
17:58<@SmatZ>Brianetta: as in "svn switch"?
17:58<Brianetta>brian@lydia ~/openttd-0.7> rm configure
17:58<Brianetta>brian@lydia ~/openttd-0.7> svn up
17:58<Brianetta>Restored 'configure'
17:58<Brianetta>Updated to revision 15747.
17:58<Brianetta>Well, that might have done it....
17:59<@Rubidium>the revision is bull cause that's always the HEAD revision of /
17:59<@Rubidium> <- at 2653 Makefile.bundle is made
18:01<@petern>i think you'd be better off with a fresh checkout anyway
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18:03<Brianetta>That shouldn't be necessary
18:03<Brianetta>My server copy was fine
18:03<Brianetta>and it had patches to remove
18:13<Brianetta>OK, repeating the switch did it.
18:13<Brianetta>same args, exactly as before, from my command history.
18:13<Brianetta>it's a dumb, dumb revision control tool.
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18:19<@petern>and yet you're the only person i've ever noticed who's had problems doing that :o
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18:25<Brianetta>So how many people have you watched?
18:25<Brianetta>I should only have to tell it to switch once.
18:30<@Rubidium>then file a bugreport for subversion ;)
18:36<@petern>heh, 11 seconds to compile :o
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18:37<@petern>and 0.3.6 doesn't
18:39<@petern>i'm not that bothered :)
18:40<Brianetta>Rubidium: I wish I could, but I don't want to
18:40<@petern>oh there we go
18:40<@petern>9 seconds
18:40<Brianetta>More and more bug reporting systems require an account to be created, and I long ago reached the level of "cannot be arsed"
18:40<@petern>and then another minute making the links :p
18:42*Rubidium wonders why people are so against the developers having some way to ask for more information on bug reports
18:43<Brianetta>Rubidium: I once emailed a rather detailed bug report to the maintainer of a package. He asked me to file it on his web based thingy. I told him I'd given him enough info, and if he wanted it in his web based thingy he could put it there.
18:43<Brianetta>It's that or nothing. I had better things to do than become a tester for him.
18:44<Brianetta>If he needed more specific info, well, he definitely had my email address.
18:45<@Rubidium>but not having the bug reports in one single location makes it soo much easier for the developers to ignore it
18:45*Brianetta shrugs
18:45<@petern>SmatZ, i'm a bit confused by bjarni
18:45<Brianetta>If they want to ignore things, they can. Just provide a web based interface and demand that people use it instead of bothering them by email, and they won't even have to ignore it.
18:45<@petern>more than usual :D
18:46<@petern>@seen bjarni
18:46<@DorpsGek>petern: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 1 hour, 39 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Bjarni> on top of all the other tasks for "someone". Expect that he will not get time for this task until 2037
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18:49<@Rubidium>Brianetta: I'm aware quite a few bugreports are made at the various locations but keeping track of them is basically impossible; with various locations I mean the tens of GRF threads and different non fora (several of them in languages online translators can not properly translate)
18:50<Brianetta>Rubidium: I was moaning about subversion, not OpenTTD
18:50<Brianetta>Can your web based bug tracker make a bug on receipt of an email?
18:50<@Rubidium>well, here you need to register too
18:50<Brianetta>Many commercial helpdesk packages can
18:51<@Rubidium>and I don't think it can
18:51<Brianetta>well, that might need addressing.
18:51<Brianetta>If I have an account on flyspray, I can't remember the details.
18:51<@Rubidium>and I reckon many commercial helpdesk packages need Windows and lots of money
18:51<Brianetta>Not all
18:51<Brianetta>and again, not all
18:52*Brianetta lives in Linux-land, where many commercial products are free software
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19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15748 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp:
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r1722): the assumption that the number of tiles on the X side equals the
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: number of tiles on the Y side does not hold anymore. As a result of this
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: submarines could be created far outside of the map. Later in r15733 we would
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: test whether that tile would be a water tile and we'd find out the tile isn't
19:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: within the map.
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19:33<Brianetta>Start date: 1920-01-01
19:33<Brianetta>Current date: 1920-01-01
19:33<Brianetta>0 of 15 companies
19:33<Brianetta>8 spectators allowed
19:33<Brianetta>Name: Brianetta's Standard -
19:33<Brianetta>Version: 0.7.0-RC1
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19:43<[wito]>Brianetta: <3
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19:47<+glx>Brianetta: I don't see it in the list
19:48<Brianetta>It'll be back as soon as I've got road vehicles back on the correct side of the road
19:48<Brianetta>Stupid defaults
19:48<@Rubidium>so now they aren't on the right side :(
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19:48<Brianetta>You'd think this game was based on something that wasn't written in Chiping Sodbury
19:49<Brianetta>Rubidium: The right side of the road is totally, unacceptably, foreign.
19:49<Brianetta>It's a UK scenario server.
19:50<wision>why do you think that left-side should be default? (i assume you think so from "stupid defaults")
19:50<[wito]>wision: GBP is, so why not?
19:51<Brianetta>Heh, sarah_pilot lost her name
19:52<wision>no idea.. i'm just asking
19:52<Brianetta>wision: Because Transport Tycoon was written in Wiltshire.
19:52<Prof_Frink>openttd should geo-ip itself, look up what side of the road to drive on from Wikipedia, and use that as default.
19:53<Brianetta>In Chipping Sodbury, Chris Sawyer drove on the left.
19:53<wision>interesting reason :)
19:59<Brianetta>It's a British game, and NOBODY should forget that.
19:59<Brianetta>We invented raiways, and Chris Sawyer.
19:59<Brianetta>And the telly.
20:00<wision>is it default left in tt/ttd?
20:00<Prof_Frink>We invented everything the chinese forgot.
20:00<@Rubidium>Ludde inventen OpenTTD!
20:00<Brianetta>Prof_Frink: They didn't forget. They just rolled their eyes.
20:02<Brianetta>Somebody compete with Vemarkis.
20:06<Sacro>think I might Brianetta
20:15<Brianetta>How the hecking heck do I stop openttd occupying the whole of my screen?
20:15<Brianetta>I can't resize the bugger
20:16<@Rubidium>use the sdl video backend instead of the allegro backend
20:16<@Rubidium>allegro doesn't do 'custom' resolutions
20:17<Ammler>[00:52] <Brianetta> Heh, sarah_pilot lost her name <-- change from player_name to client_name
20:18<Ammler>good night all.
20:18<Brianetta>Lots of config stuff has changed. Half the config on my server seems to be default (and sucky)
20:19<Ammler>dunno, if you already use ap+, else you might need to...
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20:20<Ammler>are the changes of the new cfg after 0.6 branch?
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20:22<Brianetta>Ah crap, I have to translate diff_custom myself
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20:25<@Rubidium>I've got no clue what you've done exactly, but the conversion works for me
20:26<@Rubidium>maybe you've started 0.7.0-RC1, then 0.6.3 and then 0.7.0-RC1 again
20:26<Brianetta>Definitely not. 0.6.3 was last run a fortnight ago.
20:26<@Rubidium>that would at least explain why you've got the defaults
20:27<Brianetta>It's rewritten most of the settings, but many things are just wrong
20:27<[wito]>Speaking of settings, we could really do with the realistic train accel. :P
20:27<Brianetta>Usually where settings have a different name
20:28<Brianetta>realistic_acceleration = true in last night's backup
20:28<Brianetta>train_acceleration_model = 0
20:28<Brianetta>since today
20:28<Yexo>renamed settings are not converted automatically
20:28<Brianetta>I gathered.
20:28<Brianetta>That includes diff_custom.
20:29<Brianetta>What's dynamic_engines?
20:29<Yexo>I remember a problem with diff_custom, but I thougth that was fixed
20:29<Yexo>dynamic_engines = engine pool
20:29<@Rubidium>Brianetta: something blunck doesn't like
20:29<Brianetta>Oh, the thing that lets you run DBSet alongside UKRS (:
20:30<Sacro>Brianetta: i think realistic accel is off
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20:31<Brianetta>Sacro: You're not the first to point this out
20:31<Sacro>i'm not the quickest
20:33<Brianetta>ERROR: This command/variable is not available during network games.
20:33<Brianetta>This is usually an arbitrary limitation, as far as I can tell.
20:33<@Rubidium>yes... arbitrary
20:34<@Rubidium>in the sense that it's readable by NewGRFs on game load
20:34<@Rubidium>which means that NewGRFs can change the behaviour of the NewGRF based on that value on game load
20:34<@Rubidium>which means that changing it during network games can cause desyncs
20:34<Brianetta>Let them, I say. Just warn the admin.
20:35<Brianetta>There might not *be* and newgrfs.
20:35<Sacro>click and dragging signals still does the first signal type you click
20:35<Sacro>not the signal type you have selected
20:35<@Rubidium>yeah, just like changing NewGRFs warns the user and we still get tons of bug reports that changing NewGRFs caused crashes
20:36<Yexo>Sacro: that's intended
20:36<Sacro>can that be fixed/optionable?
20:36<Sacro>Yexo: it's a PITA
20:36<Brianetta>Rubidium: At least none of those bug reports requires fixing.
20:36<Yexo>if the signal you select is a pre/exit/combo signal though, normal signals will be build instead
20:36<@Rubidium>Brianetta: if they cared to tell that they did change the NewGRFs in-game yes
20:37<@Rubidium>but most of the time you're send on a goose/moose chase
20:37<Sacro>Yexo: not if it's a YAPP
20:37<+glx>(luckily we have gamelog now)
20:37<Sacro>i only use YAPP at juntions, I'll never have a need to click and drag them
20:37<Sacro>nor should anyoone else for that matter
20:38<Yexo>that depends on your buidling style, some people (like me) build only pbs signals
20:38<Yexo>just because it's easier to build
20:38<Sacro>can we sprite swap the signal graphics...
20:38<Sacro>I hate the fact that PBS signals are plated
20:38<Yexo>make a signals newgrf ;)
20:38<+glx>Sacro: use a static newgrf
20:38<Sacro>think I will
20:39<Sacro>automatic signals are plated, not controlled
20:39<Brianetta>I like to build signals realistically, so long straights will have regular (read: automatic) signals.
20:39<Sacro>Brianetta: yep :)
20:39<Sacro>but automatics are plated
20:39<Sacro>black with white line
20:39<Brianetta>Yeah, it's backwards, I know
20:39<@Rubidium>Brianetta: and for the others you need to manually set the route each time a train comes ;)
20:39<Brianetta>We need a UK signals grf
20:39<Sacro>but then most people don't seem to know which side of a signal is the front
20:40<Brianetta>Rubidium: For PBS signals, there's a guy in a box somewhere doing just that.
20:40<Sacro>and hence use 'in front' incorrectly
20:40<Sacro>Rubidium: depends, some have auto buttons
20:40<Sacro>other boxes uses Automatic Route Setting Equipment
20:40<Brianetta>Mechanical interlocks (:
20:41<@Rubidium>ARS makes simsig boring
20:41<Brianetta>PBS wait is now infinite
20:41<Sacro>Rubidium: it is disableable
20:41<Brianetta>Shame the two-way wait can't be made to be so
20:41<Brianetta>and the one-way for that matter
20:42<Brianetta>I find that trains which automatically turn around, ever, tend to do so *exactly* as I'm clicking the ignore signals button.
20:42<Sacro>I want distant signals now :(
20:42<Brianetta>Sacro: I want yellow ones
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20:42<Sacro>Brianetta: yes, I might have to do a patch
20:42<Brianetta>and longer reservations
20:42<Sacro>ooh, 4 aspects :D
20:43<Brianetta>If a train can reserve through two blocks, we might occasionally actually see a green light
20:43<Sacro>4 aspect signals that reserve two blocks?
20:43<Sacro>could even do flashing greens that reserve 3
20:44<@Rubidium>Brianetta: where did you gather the wisdom that you can't disable turning around at two and one way signals?
20:45<Brianetta>THe forum
20:45<Brianetta>I just had to quit openttd to change resolution
20:45<@Rubidium>@commit 14852
20:45<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit by michi_cc :: r14852 /trunk/src (settings.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2009-01-05 20:29:05 UTC)
20:45<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: -Feature: Automatic reversing in front of block signals can now be disabled by setting pf.wait_oneway_signal respectively pf.wait_twoway_signal to 255.
20:46*Brianetta changes them to the magic number
20:46<Sacro>that's not in front
20:46<Sacro>that's behind ><
20:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15749 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: apply coding style to disaster_cmd.cpp
20:47<Brianetta>Sacro: The devs aren't railway folk
20:48<Sacro>Brianetta: sigh, I know
20:48<@Rubidium>neither are the Dutch train drivers ;)
20:49<@Rubidium>"wij wachten voor het sein" -> "we are waiting in front of the signal"
20:49<Brianetta>No, in Soviet Russia, the signal is in front of *you*
20:49<Brianetta>and in the UK, as it happens (:
20:50<Sacro>the signal is in advance of you
20:50<Sacro>you are in rear of it
20:52<+glx>Rubidium: in french it's the same
20:52<[wito]>I can't afford to connect my brand new road depot to the road. :/
20:53<Brianetta>It's nice being able to disable breakdowns on the fly
20:54<Brianetta>That used to be a "kick everybody off and start again" fail
20:54<Sacro>Brianetta: they are all going bankrupt :(
20:54<Brianetta>Life isn't easy.
20:55<Brianetta>It's a recession.
20:55<Sacro>whereas my profits are skyrocketing
20:55<[wito]>realistic accel. <3
20:55<Sacro>probably cos I cram all my trains on one line
20:55<[wito]>Sacro: feel free to share the wealth. :P
20:56<Brianetta>reserve_paths = false
20:56<Brianetta>That's not difficult to misinterpret (:
20:58<Sacro>[wito]: still have a loan
20:58<Sacro>I just know how to pull massive profits using coal
20:58<Sacro>hmm, how to use conditional orders
20:58<Sacro>or do i have a huge coal drop off
20:58<Sacro>and have a couple of huge trains to shift any excess
20:58<Sacro>I like the transfer idea better
21:00<[wito]>yeah? Well I have a HEADQUARTER!
21:00<[wito]>They don't call me the king of unneccessaryland for nothing!
21:01<Sacro>Brianetta: i think we should have semaphores on the huge cross track brackety things
21:01*Brianetta blinks
21:01<Brianetta>Oh right
21:01<Brianetta>Lights, too
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21:03<Sacro>hmm, how does this sytem work
21:03<Sacro>i want them to dump any excess onto the overflow train
21:03<Sacro>but if the powerstation can take it then it should
21:03<Yexo>use unload
21:04<Yexo>unload and leave empty to be exact
21:04<Sacro>hmm, right :)
21:05<Sacro>wh would you have unload and take cargo?
21:05<Yexo>that can be usefull for two-way trains, where both stations have a coal mine and a powerplant
21:08<Sacro>Oh right
21:13<[wito]>My god, man!
21:13<[wito]>You're gonna bleed the land dry!
21:15<Sacro>wyho me?
21:15<Sacro>[wito]: me?
21:15<Sacro>all these trains need coal
21:16<[wito]>It's a bit sad
21:17<[wito]>my horses are the only sound investment I've made so far in this game. :/
21:18<Sacro>oh es
21:23<Brianetta>Hmm, I think autoclean might bite us in the arse tonight
21:24<Brianetta>Oh wait, the comments don't reflect the logic
21:26<Brianetta>and the wiki's out of date now
21:26<Brianetta>I'll fix it tomorrow if I remember, but right now I'm off to bed
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21:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15750 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix: The big ufo sometimes landed just outside the map. Instead of landing, just disappear (fly away) in those cases.
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 17 00:00:55 2009