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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-04-01

---Logopened Wed Apr 01 00:00:10 2009
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00:22<Forked>"Be nice to SirkoZ" .. nice patch setting for AIs :D
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02:41<dihedral>Rubidium, has not TB been working on a rewrite of WT2?
02:43<@Rubidium>he hasn't been working on it
02:45<petern>are you suggesting that the huge project that mihamix worked on and couldn't reveal to anyone is... in need of replacement?
02:45<@Rubidium>dihedral: does work? And what version does it show?
02:49<dihedral>Rubidium, i dont have my mac with me at work!
02:49<dihedral>petern, i had the source of it once, miham gave it to me :-)
02:50<dihedral>but then TB said i need not work on a rewrite of it as i would have done it in php and he wanted to do it in python with django
02:50<dihedral>so i deleted it again
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02:51<dihedral>Rubidium, i can test it earliest at like 1800 or 1900
02:51<dihedral>but perhaps planetmaker is awake?
02:52<dihedral>what did you patch it with?
02:52<planetmaker>I'm just downloading it :)
02:52<planetmaker>and good morning everyone
02:52<@Rubidium>oh, some minor things
02:52<@Rubidium>new sdk, new compiler, new linker, new libs
02:53<dihedral>minor HAHA
02:53<@Rubidium>some extra targets
02:53<dihedral>pm has an intel 10.5 i think
02:53<@Rubidium>as in adds x86_64 and ppc64 binaries
02:53<planetmaker>I have intel 10.4
02:53<dihedral>i can test it for g4 10.4 this evening
02:54<dihedral>@note send dihedral
02:54<@DorpsGek>dihedral: dih
02:54<planetmaker>:P wrong bot?
02:54<dihedral>@note send dih
02:54<dihedral>it's supybot, just does not have the plugin loaded
02:55<@Rubidium>blame lighty
02:55<dihedral>what does that have to do with lighty?
02:55<planetmaker>well... I cannot run that binary, Rubidium
02:56<planetmaker> Reason: Incompatible library version: openttd requires version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 5.0.0
02:56<dihedral>did you install that using mac ports or fink, pm?
02:56<@Rubidium>hmm, so we really need to link to the 10.4 SDK
02:57<planetmaker>neither. I dl it from the site which maintains it and compiled it myself
02:57<dihedral>ha! :-)
02:57*dihedral wonders, if he installed esx on an apple x-server, if he could install os x in a vm ^^
02:59<petern>just drop apple's shit
03:00<planetmaker>petern: there are at least three windows binaries, too...
03:02<petern>and when did they last get special treatment?
03:02<planetmaker>you don't make _one_ binary for all windows versions ;)
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03:03<planetmaker>petern: 2 days or 9 days ago ;)
03:04<planetmaker>@openttd 15818
03:05<planetmaker>and r15893
03:05<petern>15893: nothing to do with windows
03:05<planetmaker>win32.cpp isn't special for windows?
03:06<petern>15818: gcc ain't windows
03:07<petern>mm, okay
03:08<petern>but that's not a work around for the system
03:08<petern>my next proposal
03:08<petern>just drop microsoft's shit
03:09<planetmaker>why should there be more than one system architecture anyway?
03:09<dihedral>petern, when does windows NOT get special treatment?
03:09<dihedral>and planetmaker: there are more than 3 builds for os x ;-)
03:09<dihedral>you just only download one dmg and have one app
03:10<petern>the problem is window's variants span 14 years
03:10<petern>OS X variants are span 0.2 minor versions :p
03:11<petern>oh, and two windows variants are basically 32/64 bit
03:11<dihedral>and now check how long ms needs to release a major version
03:11<dihedral>in that time, os x had how many minor versions?
03:11<dihedral>+ if windows ran on ppc, you'd have more variants for windows too
03:11<petern>in that time, os x had how many incompatible minor versions?
03:12<dihedral>in what way "incompatible"?
03:12<dihedral>i am sure, you can, in the same way find incompatabilities between 3 windows releases
03:13<petern>not really
03:14<petern>just older versions missing features that we use in the newer versions
03:16<planetmaker>10.3 ... 10.5 = three major versions
03:16<petern>10 = major
03:16<petern>0.3 ... 0.5 == three minor versions
03:18<planetmaker>petern: not really
03:18<planetmaker>they just stick to ten as X = 10 = ten
03:18<planetmaker>besides, you should know that versioning is a rather subjective thing ;)
03:20<planetmaker>differences are as big as Win98 -> win NT -> win 2000 -> win xp
03:21<@Rubidium>not really
03:21<@Rubidium>what works in WinNT does still work in WinXP
03:21<@Rubidium>what works in OSX 10.3 does not necessarily work in 10.5
03:22<petern>what works in win 98 usually works in vista
03:22<dihedral>what worked in 98 does not necessarily work in 2k or xp
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03:22<planetmaker>depends on how much compatibility layers you drag around ;)
03:22<dihedral>planetmaker, CLASSIC
03:23<dihedral>hello Yexo
03:23<planetmaker>morning Yexo
03:23<@Rubidium>planetmaker: so EVERY application must make it's own compatability layers?
03:23<planetmaker>doesn't sound like the way to go, Rubidium :)
03:23<Forked>needs some compatability between layer 7 and 8 at least..
03:24<petern>a big spike
03:25<dihedral>Forked, aye
03:28<planetmaker>but at some stage it can IMO be argued that given a big enough version difference, two systems can be considered quite different :)
03:29<@Rubidium>yes, but 0.1 release?
03:30<@Rubidium>you must deliberately build with an OLDER "platform SDK" to make it work on older releases; building and linking against 10.5 doesn't make it work in 10.4
03:30<planetmaker>from one version to another: I concur, one should be able to continue using user-side programmes
03:30<planetmaker>The latter (you need to use the older SDK) makes somewhat sense to me...
03:32<@Rubidium>the latest SDK for windows still makes binaries that work fine on Windows 2000
03:32<planetmaker>and win98?
03:32<dihedral>Rubidium, compared to win, you do know that osx releases a vast amount of 0.0.1 versions
03:33<@Rubidium>dihedral: so does Microsoft in essence, only they bundle them as "new" less often
03:34<@Rubidium>those 0.0.1 versions are just MS Service Packs Light
03:34<dihedral>well.... call them as you wish
03:36<@Rubidium>it's just that apple really likes to exaggerate with their new features
03:36<dihedral>and windows copies from apples features :-D
03:37<@Rubidium>they all copy eachothers features
03:38<planetmaker>IMO the 0.0.1 are the regular updates + security fixes. but the 0.1 are the major versions - which you pay for. Like any other non-free os
03:39<@Rubidium>e.g. bootcamp in Leopard is counted as at least 7 features
03:40<@Rubidium>bootcamp, some bootcamp installer, copy files between bootcamps, bootcamp uninstaller, MS signed drivers for bootcamp, bootcamp keyboard mapping, bootcamp shortcut
03:42<@Rubidium>wikipedia filtering? wtf?
03:43<@Rubidium>hmm... leopard introduced printing? You couldn't print with the versions before?
03:43<@Rubidium>:O 6 "features" are new screensavers... good way to keep your feature count up
03:44<@Rubidium>hmm... leopard introduced backing up? You couldn't back up with the versions before?
03:44<@Rubidium>damn... MS must have stolen that idea from Apple
03:44<@Rubidium>... back in say 1995
03:45<@Rubidium>"Leopard is the first mainstream operating system to completely and seamlessly support both 32-bit and 64-bit applications on the same platform" <- WHAHAHAHAHAH... NOT FOR DEVELOPERS OFCOURSE!
03:46<Forked>so.. what distro should I install at home. (it's the gaming computer, so it needs GUI)
03:47<@Rubidium>hmm... then there's this 'ld' application of cctools that... doesn't work with the libraries supplied with the same xcode
03:47<@Rubidium>Forked: depends on the kind of games I reckon
03:48<Forked>openttd, x3: reunion (the ported to linux one) and probably whatever else I can find that looks fun :)
03:49<@Rubidium>though generally probably something like ubuntu, suse or fedora
03:50<Forked>I was considering ubuntu or fedora.. leaning on ubuntu
03:50<Forked>I still have a grudge against red hat after RH9 (and 5.2)
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03:58<@Rubidium>planetmaker: I've uploaded a new zip for you to test on 10.4
03:58<planetmaker>same link?
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04:04<planetmaker>that works and calls itself r15909M-32-LE
04:05<planetmaker>any particular tests required? It loads a trunk save just fine.
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04:08<petern>Forked, debian, obviously
04:08<Forked>it's not obvious to me
04:09<Forked>but I know for sure I'm not a gentoo person
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04:18<dihedral>gentoo is nice ^^
04:22<petern>no it's not
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04:24<dihedral>to to a windows-clicker no
04:24<dihedral>but you'd probably consider vista 'nice' and i would not ^^
04:29<petern>i use linux
04:30<Forked>windows is and will always be haunted by crappy drivers and things that do not work all that well together.. and it will all be blamed on MS :)
04:31<Ammler>morning, looks like nice talk here :-)
04:31<petern>of course, vista does work perfectly well for me (on intel)
04:31<@Rubidium>planetmaker: for 32-LE there isn't much to test ;)
04:32<planetmaker>Basically trunk, I assume?
04:33<@Rubidium>with some modifications to make 64 bits apple work
04:33<@Rubidium>primarily disabling stuff like quicktime
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04:37*planetmaker wonders how much 64 bit 10.4 is... presumably not much
04:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r15910 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_company.hpp ai_map.hpp ai_tunnel.hpp): -Fix [FS#2777]: Clarify that TILE_INVALID is part of AIMap make doxygen output some documentation for it.
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04:40<@Rubidium>planetmaker: not enough
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04:41<@Rubidium>it doesn't have a 64 bits variant of the (I think) most used APIs like Carbon
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04:57<planetmaker>I also think it's true. Most 64 bit support is afaik only added in 10.5. And some might still be even missing there.
04:58<@Rubidium>yeah, quicktime doesn't have a 64 bits variant
04:58<@Rubidium>and it probably won't have one either
04:58<@Rubidium>I'm even wondering whether 10.6 will have quicktime support
04:59<planetmaker>No idea :)
04:59<@Rubidium>might be a feature ;)
04:59<planetmaker>But my bet is it will
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05:06*planetmaker thinks to get snow leopard, when it gets shipped ;) - but I wonder also, if dual boot is supported...
05:07<@Rubidium>isn't that what bootcamp is for?
05:08<planetmaker>maybe :) I never used it as I preferred to use windows in a VM, if needed
05:08<planetmaker>though I thought bootcamp provided mainly support for windows - but may work for other parallel installs, too
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05:11<@Rubidium>QuickTime 7.2.1 is intended to support Mac OS X v10.5. As such, this version does not support Mac OS X v10.3.9 and higher; Mac OS X v10.4.9 and higher, or Microsoft Windows. <- me no understand; <= 10.3.8 is supported the rest isn't?
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05:19<@Rubidium>oh... Apple "supports" QuickTime for 64 bits
05:19<@Rubidium>it just requires using QTKit
05:19<@Rubidium>which isn't available at 10.3.9
05:20*Rubidium wonders how many APIs needed to be rewritten to support 64 bits Windows compilation
05:20<@Rubidium>s/API/API calls/
05:21<@Rubidium>so... who's going to write qtkitmidi?
05:21*planetmaker isn't even sure whether I want to know that...
05:22<planetmaker>(the number of re-written API - calls)
05:23<@Rubidium>WHAT???... 64 bits support for windows didn't require the use of different API calls?
05:24<planetmaker>he :) compile for new variable type and be done? ;)
05:25<@Rubidium>well, for WIN64 most changes are of the #if defined(WIN32) -> #if defined(WIN32) || defined(WIN64) kind
05:26<petern>how many API call changes were needed for unix-style OSes?
05:26<@Rubidium>which I assume is simpler than lets say use another API
05:26<petern>oh, silly question
05:33<@Rubidium>hmm, some parts of qtkit are available for 10.3
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05:40<bobo_b>how do i set the map size for a dedicated server?
05:41<bobo_b>i can't seem to find an option in the config file and the wiki page doesn't say anything about it either
05:42-!-KingJ is now known as kingj
05:42<Ammler>bobo_b: let me wiki that for you:
05:44<Ammler>hmm, why does someone add a "stub" template? quite annoying lazy
05:45<Ammler>same like "!connect" signs on our public server ;-)
05:45<bobo_b>oh wow, oops, sorry
05:46<bobo_b>thanks Ammler, i did a (lazy) search for 'size' on the opennttd.cfg page and didn't find it...
05:46<bobo_b>now i know why :)
05:46<Ammler>search for "map" brings you there quite fast
05:48<bobo_b>didn't think that far i guess
05:48<Ammler>(stub removed)
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06:08<TrueBrain>Dead all; after a rough week fighting with cherokee we come to the conclusion it is too buggy, and there is too little feedback upstream about what is going on and when something will be fixed; therefor we will be reverting back to lighttpd now
06:11<TrueBrain>k, done; please let me know any webpage glitches
06:15<petern>seems to work
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06:17<@Rubidium>:O typo of the day ;)
06:17<@Rubidium>"Dead all;"
06:17<TrueBrain>oops :)
06:17<petern>didn't notice :o
06:18<TrueBrain>well, that was of course a joka, ha ha
06:21<petern>so how quickly does lighttpd exhaust memory?
06:22<petern>is a daily cronjob restart enough to work around it?
06:22<TrueBrain>depends on how busy things are
06:22<TrueBrain>Rubidium: can you switch 'stats' back to lighttpd please?
06:22<petern>i guess it's request-based rather than time-based
06:22<TrueBrain>exactly :)
06:23<petern>monitor the logs and restart after x-requests ;)
06:23<petern>me so silly
06:23<petern>i do have a daily restart for amavis
06:23<petern>though i don't know if it's needed any more
06:25<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: done
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06:42<planetmaker>hehe, petern - nice OpenLoco thing :D
06:43<dihedral>a TrueBrain ^^
06:45<TrueBrain>dihedral: no, check the date, impossible that I am here
06:46<dihedral>i never claimed you were here, did i now ^^
06:53<petern>bah, thunderbird locked up
06:55<TrueBrain>slap it open!
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07:31<Ammler>nice new feature fo opera:
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07:39<dihedral>Ammler, now picture school computer laps in 2 years time!
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07:47<TrueBrain>I like that you can get youtube in flip mode
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07:47<TrueBrain>even text is flipped :)
07:51<Forked>now combine that with the thing they had last year.. and you get:
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08:40<Forked>what day is today .. it's nibblers birthday ..
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08:59<dihedral>lookes like it's Pikka's "shout-aloud-day"
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09:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r15911 /trunk/src/lang/ (icelandic.txt unfinished/serbian.txt):
09:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-01 13:51:05
09:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: icelandic - 27 fixed, 11 changed by scrooge (38)
09:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: serbian - 37 fixed by etran (37)
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10:09<Condac>anyone tested openttd on powerpc?
10:11<petern>do you have a problem with it?
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10:12<Condac>not yet, im installing ubunto on my ps3 to run some snes and stuff on it, and was interested if openttd might work also
10:13<petern>you'd have to try it
10:13<petern>powerpc covers a bit more than ps3...
10:13<petern>morphos, mac os x, linux, etc...
10:13<Condac>i will test it, just have to finnish the installation, it seems to stuck at the moment
10:14<+glx>if it compiles, it should work :)
10:15<@Rubidium>even then... what powerpc cpu ;)
10:16<@Rubidium>there're quite a bit and compiling for the wrong one will make it not working
10:17<@Rubidium>openttd 0.6.3 is known to compile on Debian under alpha, amd64, armel, hppa, i386, ia64, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390 and sparc
10:19<Condac>im just working through the "the installer will hang at 6% for 20mminutes"-bug at the moment will get back with results later
10:20<bobo_b>i can't seem to open the ingame console, is it not ~?
10:20<@Rubidium>it's usually the key below 'escape'
10:20<Condac>try ö if you have swedish board
10:21<Sacro>or § on a macbook
10:21<bobo_b>oh ok, ^ works
10:21<@Rubidium>otherwise you can try the right most button of the toolbar; that sub menu has an option to open the console
10:21<bobo_b>though the wiki says 'Open the console with the tilde key (~)'
10:22<@Rubidium>then that part of the wiki is uhm... not 100% true
10:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15912 /branches/0.7/ (24 files in 7 dirs):
10:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
10:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Update: lots and lots of translations
10:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Chat completion got called twice causing tab completion to seemingly fail (r15905)
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10:25<@Belugas>snes? what is a snes ?
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10:25<el_en>Belugas: super nintendo entertainment system
10:25<@Belugas>mmh... conference call about to start. from bed.. nice
10:25<@Belugas>thanks el_en
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10:31<Forked>hi supernintendo chalmers!
10:31<bobo_b>how can i save the game on my dedicated server, so that i can stop the server and restart it with the saved game?
10:35<planetmaker>bobo_b: join as client, save it locally :)
10:35<planetmaker>or in the console use 'save <gamename>'
10:35-!-Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
10:36<bobo_b>well if i save it on the client side, i would have to copy it to the server to restart the server with that savegamge, right?
10:36<Ammler>hmm, exit might be a autopilot command?
10:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r15913 /tags/0.7.0/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: not the April Fools' edition of OpenTTD.
10:36<bobo_b>well, the save X in the console seems to save it on the client side
10:36<Ammler>bobo_b: rcon save ....
10:36<Forked>no announcement on forum yet!?!?1+1+one :p
10:37<@Rubidium>you haven't made one yet, right?
10:37<planetmaker>Rubidium: you're making a good joke? :)
10:38<dihedral>Ammler, exit is yes, quit is not ^^
10:38*Forked has not done a thing ..ever :\
10:39<dihedral>Forked, eleven
10:39<HerzogDeXtEr>hey, is it possible to to lock the build key for industries in the szenario editor? so you can build more industries of one type without clicking on build
10:40<dihedral>yes it's possible
10:40<dihedral>if you modify the source a little bit ^^
10:40<@Rubidium>enabling the make building tools persistent?
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11:09-!-mode/#openttd [+o petern] by ChanServ
11:09-!-petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.0 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only | Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence
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11:42<el_en>btw, what made UK pick the PAL standard for colour tv, which is -- omg -- (almost) the same as in the rest of western europe.
11:48<@petern>cos a standard is handy
11:48<@petern>albeit standards with differences...
11:48<Pikka>a handard is standy
11:48-!-Wil^3 [] has joined #openttd
11:49<Pikka>TaI + evilav8 = planesaren'tmoneyprintingmachines(hopefully) ;)
11:50<Pikka>+ newgrfports = o-o
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11:52<+glx>el_en: PAL is not standard here
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11:52<Wil^3>I have a question for the devs that is completely unrelated to OpenTTD but related to the Squirrel scripting language I was told is used in OpenTTD. *whistles*
11:53*planetmaker whistles, too
11:54*glx waits
11:54*Pikka whistles three
11:54<@Rubidium>you have to whistle harder and longer
11:54*Wil^3 's lungs pop
11:54<@petern>red squirrels work better than grey
11:55<Pikka>petern enjoys a good squirrel every now and then
11:55<Wil^3>Well, I suppose the best place to start is... is it just me or do the squirrel docs really suck? The headers aren't even commented. :(
11:55<Yexo>squirrel docs do suck
11:55<+glx>it's not just you :)
11:55<Yexo>and not only the docs, the code too
11:55<+glx>squirrel code is worse
11:56<Wil^3>Why is it used, then?
11:57<@Rubidium>it's basically the only one that meets requirements
11:57<+glx>because it does what we want
11:57*Wil^3 nods
11:57*Yexo is gone, highlight me if there are specific questions, I'll read them in tonight (like in 5 hours or so)
11:58<@Rubidium>Yexo: nice joke :)
11:59<el_en>glx: i know.. i was about to add "most of" somewhere in my sentence, but didn't.
12:00<Wil^3>Okay, so for my actual question... given that the docs are so horrible I can't seem to find any functions, save for the function that can be used in the script, that allows me to wake up a suspended script. What would make most sense is if when I called it again it would automatically wake up, but.. it doesn't. Have any of you worked with squirrels theads/coop (almost complete lack of) features?
12:00<el_en>glx: but whattabout DVDs and digital tv, are those PAL?
12:00<+glx>they are
12:00<+glx>SECAM is used for broadcasting :)
12:01<el_en>did anyone demand using SECAM on DVDs too?
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12:02<@petern>you know that PAL on DVD refers only to resolution and frame rate, right?
12:02<frosch123>also aspect ratio
12:02<frosch123>no? :(
12:03<frosch123>I was told NTSC has rectangular (non-square) pixels
12:03<el_en>petern: yes, so?
12:03<el_en>I thought PAL "has" non-square pixels too.
12:04<@petern>SECAM is 625 lines
12:04<@petern>PAL is 625 lines...
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12:04<@petern>it would be the same
12:04<el_en>"has" in quotes because analogue PAL doesn't really have pixels.
12:04<+glx>PAL is B/W on SECAM tv
12:04<@petern>non-square has nothing to do with it
12:05<el_en>petern: but the DVD player must output the image as PAL that is more PAL than just resolution and framerate. why couldn't this output be SECAM as well?
12:06<baldur>the dvd player doesn' t output PAL or SECAM signals
12:06<@petern>i've never seen a DVD player with PAL signal
12:06<baldur>it works with RGB over SCART, component etc.
12:06<@petern>they're either composite, component or SCART
12:06<Pikka>ehhh... shit :3 I'm stupid...
12:07<Pikka>vehicles have no persistent storage... 7D is global... >_>;;;
12:07<el_en>RGB is an exception, but please explain why composite wouldn't need to be either PAL or NTSC or some other format.
12:07<@petern>var 25 is as close as you get :/
12:07<@petern>feature request!
12:07<Wil^3>Ahh, guess not. :(
12:07<Pikka>var 25! good point! :o
12:08<Pikka>feature request = var 7C for vehicles tyvm D;
12:08<Pikka>although since you've moved over to openlomo I guess there's not much chance. ;)
12:08<Pikka>var 25 /might/ just do the trick. :o
12:08<gleeb>Openlomo? O.o
12:09<baldur>el_en: as I understand it, the component signal is the same for PAL/SECAM and NTCS, the only difference is the number of lines
12:09<Pikka>property 25, not var 25. :P
12:09<baldur>whereas the broadcasting signal for PAL and SECAM is different, altough they use the same number of lines
12:10<Pikka> gleeb
12:10<el_en>baldur: component might be, but *composite* definitely is not. composite is the most common type of signal that virtually all tvs and monitors can handle.
12:10<baldur>oh, i meant composite :p
12:11<gleeb>ty pikka
12:11<gleeb>Oh, awesome, openlomo. :D
12:11<el_en>baldur: well, ever tried viewing NTSC DVD with a tv that only supports PAL?
12:12<@petern>it won't work
12:12<@petern>because the timings are wrong
12:12<@petern>a DVD *player*
12:12<@petern>can quite easily output NTSC or PAL or SECAM composite
12:12<el_en>second question; ever tried viewing an NTSC DVD with a tv that only supports PAL, but can sync also to 60 Hz?
12:12<@petern>regardless of the actual DVD in use
12:13<gleeb>Pikka: Yeah, I saw the post date. I downloaded it anyway, to see what the joke was.
12:13<el_en>petern: well, as far as i know it is not a very common feature that a DVD *player* would do such a conversion. the good old Dxr3/H+ card did, which was nice.
12:13<baldur>humm, there's a long time since I looked into those things so I can't say...
12:13<@petern>DVDs are MPEG
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12:14<@petern>output NTSC or PAL 'encoded' video requires faffing
12:14<@petern>it's quite common for a DVD to support rescaling
12:14<@petern>they have frame buffers you know
12:15<@petern>things like anisotropic... zoom... etc...
12:15<@petern>it's not like a video tape where the raw signal goes straight from the tape to the telly
12:15<@petern>(even then that doesn't happen, heh)
12:16<el_en>petern: ok, well, at least the two of us do agree that the signal on composite _is_ either PAL or NTSC (or theoretically something else), right.
12:16<gleeb>There's no such thing as an NTSC or PAL DVD, just a design specification to specify the output. If you ignore the spec, suddenly, any DVD works anywhere.
12:17<otih>openttd released and in some minutes/hours in gentoo tree ..... for all who wanna test it now:;f=games-simulation/openttd/openttd-0.7.0.ebuild
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12:18<el_en>gleeb: But if your DVD player does not support the conversion, like many don't, you are in a situation where you cannot play back your NTSC DVD with that hardware even if it isn't really-really NTSC.
12:19<gleeb>el_en: Yay for profiteering :D
12:19<el_en>definition of "to play back" = "to see picture with colors, and with synchronization"
12:21<@petern>there is no "conversion"
12:21<@petern>nobody hooks DVD players up with composite
12:22<el_en>gleeb: it's not profiteering. the result in the end from the user's perspective is the same; some discs can and some cannot be played back with given hardware. so there are two kinds of discs, labelled "NTSC" and "PAL".
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12:22<@petern>all the cheap ones are SCART, and expensive ones you'd use SCART or component
12:22<el_en>err, SCART is a connector, not a signal. one of the signals SCART carries is composite.
12:22<@petern>RGB scart
12:23<el_en>yeah. though not all cheap TVs support RGB.
12:23<@petern>all DVD players i've seen have a selector for PAL, PAL-60 and NTSC output on composite
12:23<el_en>petern: btw, my DVD player is hooked to my tv with scart composite :(
12:24<@petern>poor you :p
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12:26<el_en>petern: the tv has RGB too, but there's a lot of ghost image stuff on the red channel, so it's not usable.
12:26<@petern>tried different cables?
12:27<el_en>i did, and other devices besides the dvd player...
12:27<gleeb>el_en: The NTSC/PAL divide is artifical at best with modern technology. It's maintainence can only be in the name of profit.
12:29<el_en>gleeb: only in the name of profit, and not in the name of conforming to the DVD standard so that earlier players can play today's discs.
12:30<gleeb>Now you're getting it :D
12:30<gleeb>Besides, isn't this the HD era? Aren't we all meant to be on HDDVD and Bluray by now?
12:31<baldur>or youtube and hulu? :p
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12:32<TinoDidriksen>Physical media are outdated in general.
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12:34<@petern>we are all meant to buy HD-DVD and then have to switch to Bluray
12:35<+glx>HD-DVD is dead :)
12:35<+glx>and the cheaper BRD player is the PS3
12:36<baldur>no way :O
12:36<baldur>so you're telling my my Betamax to HD-DVD Converter is of no use? :(
12:37<SmatZ>converting data from one dead technology to another :-p
12:37<+glx>betamax was/is used by professionnals
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12:38<+glx>anyway now it's all digital
12:39<el_en>but afaik the professional betamax is not very much the same as the betamax marketed to normal consumers in the past.
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13:05<el_en>eh, tried connecting my dvd player with s-video. if the s-video cable is connected even just to the player, both composite and s-video are b/w on the tv.
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13:08<el_en>haj, B
13:09*Bjarni gets out of the water
13:10*Belugas is just behind, removing his mask
13:10<Pinchiukas>Is there a way to filter out servers with other versions of ottd than mine?
13:10<+glx>why ?
13:11<+glx>compatible servers are on top of the list
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13:11<@Belugas>Bjarni, will you please get out of the ladder, i need to climb aboard!
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13:12<Pinchiukas>glx: despite what I sort them by?
13:16*Bjarni climbs up and removes the ladder
13:17*Belugas takes his knife, punches a hole in one of the bladders and checks Bjarni drawning
13:18<@Belugas>check for zodiac ^_^
13:18<@Belugas>usualyy that's what we use when we're diving :D
13:18<@Bjarni>I don't get drawning :(
13:18<@Rubidium>you draw while drowning?
13:19<@Rubidium>or drown while drawing
13:19<@petern>home time
13:19<@Belugas>drowning indeed
13:20<@Bjarni>but I'm not in the water. You mean that I'm drowning in mid air?
13:24<otih>Belugas, Rubidium: openttd will get in gentoo tree today night or tomorrow .... i have a ebuild here:;f=games-simulation/openttd/openttd-0.7.0.ebuild
13:24<@Belugas>if you were on the water, and you were gettiung out, you must be OR near the border or near a boat
13:24<@Belugas>using a ladder would actually means a boat
13:24<@Belugas>otih good :)
13:25<@Belugas>i guess Rubidium would be happier than me ;)
13:25<otih>hehe, why? ;)
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13:27<@Rubidium>otih: those scenarios are probably pointless; you can download them from in-game if you want
13:27<@Rubidium>furthermore it doesn't allow you to chose between allegro and sdl
13:28<@Rubidium>and it doesn't allow you to chose between allegro and timidity
13:28-!-Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro]
13:29<@Rubidium>also line 113-119 are lies
13:30<@Rubidium>108-109 aren't the complete truth either
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13:30<@Rubidium>and where's icu?
13:31<@Rubidium>and why only 4 platforms? it should run on much more
13:34<Condac>openttd works without sound on ps3 in ubuntu 8.1, running 0.6.2 that was in the built-in package installer
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13:35<gleeb>OpenTTD on PS3? Ouch.
13:35<gleeb>You could always convert OpenTTD to C#/XNA and get it running on the 360.
13:36<Condac>im updating some alsa packages so sound will hopefully work also soon
13:36<@Rubidium>you could always convert your Ship to run on rails?
13:36<gleeb>Rubidium: Take the code, throw it away because it's nothing like how XNA works, and rewrite from scrath. You know. 'Convert'
13:37<@Rubidium>yeah, with that terminology otih should 'convert' his ebuild
13:38<gleeb>To a deb? :P
13:38<@Rubidium>no, to another ebuild
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13:41<@petern>dpkg - warning: downgrading openttd from 0.7.0-RC2 to 0.7.0.
13:42<blathijs>petern: That should have been versioned 0.7.0~rc2
13:42<@petern>wasn't me who made it ;)
13:43<@petern>crap, i don't have all the grfs i use :p
13:43<@Bjarni>you should have them somewhere... if you used them before
13:44<@petern>different machine, but yesa
13:44<@petern>this content service is nice, however ;)
13:50<@Bjarni> <-- interesting article
13:50<@petern>just as well you're a wanker, eh?
13:51<@petern>that sounds a bit harsh :p
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13:51<@Bjarni>well I guess I better consider it now for health issues
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13:55<otih>Rubidium: ok ;) i will fix this
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14:04<@petern>so, is there any way of having lighttpd proxy without trying to buffer the content?
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14:05<otih>Rubidium: ping
14:07-!-Yeggstry [] has joined #openttd
14:10*petern redirects it instead
14:11<@petern>hmm, that works :D
14:14<el_en>oh my, this Enterprise series depicts the universe in a very primitive stage -- most aliens don't speak English yet.
14:15<baldur>what about the humans?
14:15<baldur>do they speak alianse?
14:15<el_en>a human translator does.
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14:27<@Rubidium>otih: pang
14:29<@Rubidium>still misses libicu / allegro
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14:31<otih>i dont have media-libs/allegro installed .... waht is it for?
14:32<@Rubidium>allegro is basically the same as sdl, just a different implementation
14:32<@Rubidium>though it also has a midi implementation
14:32<otih>ok, i can choose between both?
14:33<otih>and if allegro is installed i dont need alsa?
14:33<otih>öh, forget it ;)
14:33-!-fonsinchen [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:33<@Rubidium>why would you need alsa anyways?
14:37<@Rubidium>sdl can also use e.g. arts, dsp and esd
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14:39<dihedral>Rubidium, you still need me to test your custom osx build?
14:40<@Rubidium>what version + cpu do you have?
14:40<dihedral>10.4 ppc g4
14:40<dihedral>10.4.11 to be precise
14:40<@Rubidium>that should likely work, but it's untested. So please test
14:41<@Rubidium>should get version 32-BE
14:41<dihedral>need me to check anything else?
14:42<@Rubidium>not in particular; the rest should work as before
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14:45<bobo_b>i am trying to run a dedicated server on a mac
14:46<bobo_b>i started it while logged in and it worked just fine, but now that i am logged out and trying to start it over ssh i get a Bus Error
14:46<bobo_b>anyone know why?
14:47<el_en>you've a good time to ask, because Bjarni is here.
14:47<dihedral>how are you starting it?
14:48<dihedral>bobo_b, how are you starting openttd, which version of openttd, when are you getting the bus error
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14:48<bobo_b>i did the alias thing that's described in the wiki
14:48<bobo_b>bash-3.2$ openttd-0/ -D
14:48<bobo_b>Bus Error
14:49<bobo_b>actually it's "Bus error" :-)
14:49<@petern>get a taxi instead
14:49<dihedral>which version of osx?
14:49<bobo_b>think leopard
14:49<bobo_b>that is 10.5?
14:49<jnmbk>Hi, I couldn't get the sound working in 0.7.0. It works fine in 0.6.3, I'm using linux
14:49<bobo_b>(can i find out from the console?)
14:49<dihedral>bobo_b, think is not good right now
14:49<dihedral>please check
14:50<dihedral>"have you tried turning it off and on again?"
14:51<otih>Rubidium: i dont need alsa, right, but i need something like arts, alsa, esd, ....
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14:52<jnmbk>and ideas why the sound went off in 0.7.0?
14:52<bobo_b>dihedral: System Version: Mac OS X 10.5.6 (9G55)
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14:52<bobo_b>dihedral: Kernel Version: Darwin 9.6.0
14:52<dihedral>bobo_b, you wanna try a newer version of openttd?
14:52<@Rubidium>jnmbk: compiled it yourself?
14:52<jnmbk>Rubidium: yep
14:52<bobo_b>well, i can do that
14:52<@Rubidium>try openttd -s sdl
14:53<bobo_b>erm, the new stable was released today?
14:53<jnmbk>now it works
14:53<@Rubidium>then for some reason allegro doesn't give you sound
14:54<@Rubidium>I'd say you use ./configure --without-allegro or fix (lib)allegro
14:54<jnmbk>Rubidium: is there a new parameter to make sdl default when compiling? (I'm asking because I'll update the package in my distro)
14:55<bobo_b>what'S your distro? :-)
14:56<otih>Rubidium: what should i use with arts, esd, ....?
14:56<jnmbk>I'm trying --without-allegro ...
14:57<@Rubidium>otih: I'm just wondering why gentoo 'requires' you to 'select' one of the dependencies of libsdl
14:58<otih>i have to do such foobar
14:58<otih>myopts="${myopts} --with-midi=/usr/bin/aplaymidi"
14:59<bobo_b>does anyone by any chance know how to create a mac alias using the console?
15:00<TinoDidriksen>An alias or a symlink ?
15:00<bobo_b>well, not an ln -s, but this mac-style Alias thing
15:01<bobo_b>not the alias ll="ls -l" kind of alias either
15:03<@Bjarni>that's actually a tricky question
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15:03<TinoDidriksen>Oh, those...they're rather special.
15:03-!-Timitry_ [] has left #openttd []
15:04<@Bjarni>also I presume you mean you want to make it from terminal, not the console ;)
15:04<bobo_b>looks like this: -rw-r--r--@ :-)
15:04<TinoDidriksen>" AliasRecord in the resource fork (accessed via the key, 'alis') and that has an empty data fork"
15:05<bobo_b>TinoDidriksen: what are you quoting?
15:05<@Bjarni>... resourcefork
15:05<bobo_b>Bjarni: not sure i know the difference right now
15:05<@Bjarni>I thought that was a thing of the past
15:05<TinoDidriksen> and
15:05<TinoDidriksen>Alias files are from System 7
15:06<bobo_b>openttd wiki says:
15:06<bobo_b>Make an alias of the /Contents/Resources/data/openttdw.gfr file and put it in /Contents/MacOS/ folder.
15:06<TinoDidriksen>A symlink will do, surely...
15:06<dihedral>yuck.... i would not do that kind of stuff - ln -s is just fine :-P
15:07<+glx>but why is this needed?
15:08<bobo_b>i do not know
15:08<@petern>wiki is most likely bullshit
15:08<@Bjarni>link to that wiki page please
15:08<@Bjarni>somebody wrote some bullshit
15:09<bobo_b>starting ... > mac os x
15:09<@Bjarni>sure it will work, but it's not intended and makes everything way too complex
15:09<frosch123>[21:09] <Bjarni> somebody wrote some bullshit <- at least he did something for once
15:10<dihedral>and at lease he read the wiki :-D
15:10<@petern>shame it's crap
15:11<dihedral>who is
15:11<@Bjarni>I will try to make it more sane
15:11<el_en>it's someone from the united kingdom of europe.
15:11<@Bjarni>who isn't that important
15:12<@Bjarni>the point is that it should tell the right thing ^^
15:12<@Bjarni>also it shouldn't contain typos in filenames either
15:12<el_en>can't be the king, though.
15:14<bobo_b>Bjarni: how wrong is that information?
15:15<@Bjarni>well it might work, but I wouldn't even try it
15:16<bobo_b>btw Bjarni, with 0.7.0:
15:16<bobo_b>bash-3.2$ -D
15:16<bobo_b>Bus error
15:16*Bjarni hates bus errors
15:16<bobo_b>is this related to the wrong information from the wiki?
15:17<@Bjarni>not sure right now
15:17<bobo_b>i'll be glad to help
15:17<@Bjarni>I'm going to test a bit of stuff and then I will update the wiki with easy to do stuff
15:17<bobo_b>unfortunately i can't give you access to that system
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15:17<bobo_b>(not sure if you have a mac at hand=
15:18<dihedral>bobo_b, he does ;-)
15:18<dihedral>a few people in here do, not many though
15:19<bobo_b>ah ok :-)
15:20<bobo_b>anyway, i gotta grab something to eat
15:20<bobo_b>i'll check back later
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15:27*jnmbk hates bus errors too, a car crashed at the back of the bus this morning and he was 10 mins late to school :P
15:27<@Bjarni>bobo_b: refresh the wiki
15:27<baldur>sounds more like a driver problem
15:28<SmatZ>car driver's error
15:29<jnmbk>well, yeah a driver screwing the bus leaded the problem
15:29<@Bjarni>jnmbk: I tried that as well. The bus should turn left and waited for traffic going the other way. A car stopped to give room for the bus (it was a narrow road) and while the bus was turning a car showed up at high speed and overtook the bus... but the bus driver didn't notice this and started moving
15:29<@Bjarni>the bus wasn't really damanged, but the car couldn't open the door anymore
15:30<@Bjarni>but... speeding and overtaking a bus while the bus uses the left turn signal.... that's stupid
15:31<@Bjarni>I encountered a real bus error as well. The engine temperature went into the red area and the bus stopped and we had to wait for the next one
15:32<jnmbk>I saw that one, with leaking engine oil following the bus
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15:33<@Bjarni>I heard about a bus driver error. He left a few minutes early, noticed this and decided to turn around. The result was that the bus got jammed after turning 100 degrees when he tried to turn 180 degrees. It was one of those "bending busses" so when he reversed, he was completely stock
15:34<@Bjarni>and blocked traffic in 3 out of 4 lanes (the road had two lanes in each direction). To make it perfect it was around 8 O'clock in the morning on a normal work day
15:34<frosch123>articulated busses getting stuck on reversing? didn't you tell him to use ottd instead?
15:35<SmatZ>those new busses we got were buggy.. sometimes the doors failed to close - the driver had to restart (shutdown the engine and restart it) to close them
15:35<@Bjarni>I wasn't present
15:35<SmatZ>Bjarni: you are a present!
15:36<frosch123>SmatZ: maybe closing all windows and reopening them would also have helped
15:36<SmatZ>Bjarni: :-(
15:36<SmatZ>frosch123: :-)
15:36<@Bjarni>SmatZ: you mean that I'm God's gift to you???
15:36<SmatZ>Bjarni: maybe
15:36<el_en>you'll need to present some evidence
15:37<@Rubidium>CTRL-ALT-DELETE -> task manager ->select the "doors" process and close it
15:37<SmatZ>"killall passenger"
15:38<bobo_b>Bjarni: ok, so i removed the symlink
15:38<@Bjarni>I once encountered a train that had problems. The driver then went to the passenger compartment, opened a closet and pushed some buttons). The train then restarted and we could leave
15:38<bobo_b>still in 0.7.0
15:38<bobo_b>bash-3.2$ ./openttd -D
15:38<bobo_b>Bus error
15:39<bobo_b>afk again
15:39<frosch123>Bjarni: the train was too heavy, and he dropped balast
15:39<@petern>completely stock?
15:39<@Bjarni>balast on an EMU?
15:39<SmatZ>hehe, was it a pendolino? :-p
15:39<frosch123>or he refilled the tank
15:40<@Bjarni>sure he refilled the electric tank on the EMU :P
15:40<el_en>pendolino, the gift to the world from Fiat ferroviaria
15:40<SmatZ>our pendolinos were broken because the door lock system at toilets broke (because of low temperature or what) - the pendolino had to be towed by a diesel train :-p
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15:40<@petern>pah, based on APT technology
15:41<@Bjarni>I like an event in the 1990s. An EMU broke and the train was replaced with the only thing they could find in time
15:42<@Bjarni>which turned out to be steam ^^
15:43<el_en>SmatZ: the tilting system malfunctioning is the most common pendolino error here, i've heard.
15:43<@Bjarni>I was told that the passengers looked quite funny when the train showed up and it looked somewhat different from what they expected
15:44<Prof_Frink>I bet they were well chuffed.
15:45<@Bjarni>define: chuffed
15:45<@Bjarni>repeating the word over and over will not make me understand it better since I never heard it before
15:46-!-TrueBrain [~truebrain@] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!]
15:46<@petern>you are, presumably, connected to the internet in such a way that you could look itup
15:46<baldur>#define chuffed
15:46<@Bjarni>no I can't
15:46<el_en>SmatZ: like this?
15:47<@Bjarni>I don't have an internet connection at this computer
15:47<SmatZ>Bjarni: "70's-speak for the lingering, pleasant feeling of sexual satisfaction"
15:47<SmatZ>el_en: not the very same, but yes :)
15:47<@Bjarni>el_en: it would look more interesting if the diesel were a steam locomotive
15:48<@Bjarni>but I have seen diesel being hauled by steam
15:48<@Bjarni>I have no idea why though
15:48<@Bjarni>I never figured out who were driving it so the explanation lacks :(
15:49<el_en>i kind of cheated with that photo, as its description says the pendolino has just arriving from the harbor (and italy), and pulled to the depot for initial maintenance.
15:49<el_en>but similar photos of real break-down situations exist.
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15:50<Prof_Frink>I want a steam-powered maglev.
15:51<@petern>^ see, the APT was failing way before your pendolino
15:51<@petern>i kind of cheated with that photo, as its description says it's a simulated failure...
15:51<@Bjarni>X2000 had a tilting issue too
15:52<@Bjarni>it was too good
15:52<Prof_Frink>It fell over?
15:52<@Bjarni>people could see the train turning but couldn't feel it enough so the passengers complained about motion sickness
15:52<@petern>APT had that too
15:52<@Bjarni>then they reduced the turning force compensation by 1/3 and then it's ok
15:53<@petern>we did in the 70s, you slow coaches
15:53<el_en>the sad thing is that pendolinos were supposed to be high-speed trains, but due to the condition of the finnish railway network, pendolino doesn't drive any faster than other trains on some routes, but is more expensive.
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15:54<@Bjarni>speed tends to be quite expensive and the time gain usually turns out to be minimal
15:55<@petern>yeah, you just end up spending longer accelerating instead
15:55<@Bjarni>we still have max 75 km/h lines
15:55<el_en>max speed 220 km/h is hardly ever maintained for more than few minutes, and sometimes the railway limits the max allowed speed to 120 km/h.
15:55<@Bjarni>and if the track can't handle more for whatever reason the max speed doesn't matter. It's a question of how fast it can reach 75 km/h
15:57<@petern>high speed might work in the US were it not for all that uber-slow freight
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16:00<baldur>Bjarni: are you in Denmark?
16:00<Aali>I'm taking an X40 to stockholm on friday
16:00<Aali>max speed is 200km/h
16:01<Aali>the trip will take 1½ hour
16:01<baldur>from where?
16:01<Aali>a car going 110km/h can make the trip in 1:40
16:02<Aali>but hey, the seats are comfy
16:03<Aali>and noise levels are acceptable, to say the least
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16:13<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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16:54<mizipzor>do openttd have a seperate channel for dev talk?
16:55<Brianetta>here is fine
16:57<mizipzor>kewl... now ive forgot what it was i meant to ask though... doh
17:01<bobo_b>mizipzor: did you want to fix my Bus error when running dedicated on mac os from a remote login?
17:03<@Rubidium>lets make a counter question: could you give me a mac to test that on, please?
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17:06<mizipzor>bobo_b: uh, i think you got me confused with someone else, i just downloaded the source myself
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17:14<@Bjarni>bobo_b: you want to give me permission to play with your computer using a remote login? :)
17:14<@Bjarni><baldur> Bjarni: are you in Denmark? <-- no, in reality I'm a Chinese hacker who is hiding behind a Danish DNS :P
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17:33<scarabeus>howdy, so do you have 0.7 ebuild ready or truebrain is no longer working on it? :]
17:34*Rubidium summons otih for scarabeus
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17:35<scarabeus>oh :] cool, i am just too lazy to write something myself :D and i actualy want to put it into the tree :D
17:35<scarabeus>lazyness is quite popular among gnetoo :D
17:43<bobo_b>mizipzor: nah, i was just kidding :-)
17:43<bobo_b>Bjarni: it's a work pc, so, um, i guess... well, nah i can'T
17:43<SmatZ>gentoo for the win!
17:44<SmatZ>the most popular distro among people I know :)
17:44<Zuu>And I moved on to Debian, because gentoo made me doo to much work.. :)
17:44<bobo_b>which one is gentoo, the compile everything yourself or the user friendly one
17:44<bobo_b>or something else? :-)
17:44-!-welshdragon [~welshdrag@] has joined #openttd
17:44<Zuu>Ie I was to lazy for gentoo :)
17:44<welshdragon>grr, 2007alain2007 is really annoying me now :(
17:44<SmatZ>the friendly one where you compile everything :)
17:45<welshdragon> < beging last post
17:45<scarabeus>nah we are use friendly, today we agreed to break kde4 enviroment for example :D
17:45<scarabeus>so anyone knows about some ebuild which i can take look on? :P
17:48<bobo_b>scarabeus: are you connected to gentoo?
17:48<bobo_b>so the gentoo system is kinda like the freebsd ports system?
17:48<SmatZ>scarabeus:;f=games-simulation/openttd/openttd-0.7.0.ebuild - but I haven't tested it :)
17:49<scarabeus>bobo_b: yep
17:49<otih>i tested it :P
17:49<scarabeus>yeah but why you removed the scenarios and other stuff
17:49<mizipzor>welshdragon: lol, i feel your suffering :p
17:50<otih>you can donwload via game inside
17:50<scarabeus>otih: ok
17:50<bobo_b>scarabeus: yep to what? ^
17:50<@Bjarni>bobo_b: I don't know why it crashes for you. It works for me :/
17:50<scarabeus>bobo_b: yep to both :D
17:50<welshdragon>petern: nice lock :)
17:50<otih>scarabeus: you're involved in gentoo?
17:50<scarabeus>Bjarni: i am gentoo dev and yes we are based on port system
17:50<scarabeus>Bjarni: sorry
17:50<bobo_b>yep, thanks
17:51<@Bjarni>for a moment I really wondered what the bus error had to do with gentoo :P
17:51<otih>scarabeus: can you bump in tree?
17:51<bobo_b>Bjarni: how does one debug a bus error?
17:51<bobo_b>(never did much c / c++)
17:51<bobo_b>java and python don't have it ^
17:52<SmatZ>bobo_b: for example, misaligned memory access (on some architectures)
17:52*SmatZ misread that
17:52<bobo_b>it's kinda like a sigsegv right?
17:53<@Bjarni>bobo_b: first of all you install Xcode in order to get a debugger
17:53<scarabeus>otih: that is what i am doing now :D
17:53<bobo_b>that's already installed
17:53<Nite_Owl>I foresee an angry 2007alain2007 in someones future
17:53<bobo_b>weird thing is that it only happens remotely, so can i use Xcode in the terminal?
17:54<otih>scarabeus: my ebuild ...
17:55-!-Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:56<scarabeus>yeah already get that from SmatZ
17:56<SmatZ>bobo_b: "remotely" = ssh to server, then run openttd -D?
17:56<scarabeus>and updating right now
17:57<SmatZ>I forgot to mention it's otih's ebuild :)
17:57<@Bjarni>bobo_b: ok, then the next thing is to get a debug build. Get the source and run "./configure --enable-debug=3 && make"
17:57<@Bjarni>naturally you configure in the directory you get from extracting the source
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18:00<goodger>eight amoral, childish twentysomething men and eight vacuous, out-of-touch women clamber over each other's expensive haircuts, rough-nail-shod, for an overpaid city job with a grotty subsidiary of british sky broadcasting
18:00<goodger>it can only be.... the apprentice!!!!
18:01-!-KingJ is now known as kingj
18:01<@Bjarni>goodger: ok, that was really random stuff
18:01<@Bjarni>how is it related to anything else going on in here?
18:02<goodger>Bjarni: nothing else is going on in here recently
18:02<goodger>and I wanted to say it..?
18:02<otih>scarabeus: hey, could you add my overlay to layman?
18:02<@Bjarni>something else is going on and I don't get what you are trying to say
18:03<goodger>Bjarni: perhaps a dictionary?
18:03-!-ctibor__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:03<@Bjarni>I understand the words, but not the collection of words
18:03<goodger>would you prefer "lol the apprentice is a pile of shit"?
18:04<@Bjarni>I don't get what you refer to at all
18:04<goodger>it's the BBC's flagship reality television programme. the concept is explained above
18:04<Prof_Frink>"flagship reality television"
18:05<@Bjarni>reality TV is no good at all
18:05*Bjarni favours a ban
18:05<scarabeus>otih: i could but do you really thing it is worth of adding to layman? wont be better to push your stuff to the main tree / sunrise?
18:06<@Bjarni>it's all about mentally torturing people for the sole purpose of entertaining other people
18:11<bobo_b>kinda like what i do with you... ^^
18:11<scarabeus>otih: btw where you did find the --with-alegrol
18:11<scarabeus>nm find
18:11<@Bjarni>bobo_b: so are you making a debug build now or should I stop waiting?
18:12<bobo_b>Bjarni: running
18:12<bobo_b>but i have to warn you, i gotta leave soon
18:12<@Bjarni>let me know when it's done
18:12<scarabeus>Unknown option --with-allegrol
18:12<@Bjarni>it's passed midnight so I guess I will leave as well
18:12<bobo_b>same here
18:13<bobo_b>you got daylight saving time in denmark?
18:13<@Bjarni>but I don't want it :(
18:13<bobo_b>well, i like when it's still light out when i got out of work...
18:14<@Bjarni>we should use the old system: 12:00 is defined as when the sun is at it's highest
18:15<@Bjarni>daylight saving hour is actually rather dangerous
18:15<scarabeus>otih: any ideas why it dies out with this option?
18:16<@Bjarni>during the first week after changing people are sleepy in the morning and more people are killed in traffic
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18:16<@Bjarni>the amount of heart attacks (or strokes, can't remember) increases by 5%
18:16<otih>scarabeus: ./configure --help ;)
18:16<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Yeah, but you've got it wrong.
18:16<bobo_b>well, at the end of it less people will die tho, cause nobody is tired anymore
18:16<scarabeus>otih: the value is there
18:16<Prof_Frink>Don't get rid of summer time, get rid of winter time.
18:17<bobo_b>get rid of time itself?
18:17<otih>scarabeus: i wanna bump to tree, but i dont have access
18:17<@Bjarni>that's an open question. My point is that changing time is a mess
18:17<@Bjarni>and a really stupid idea
18:17<otih>so can you add my overlay to layman?
18:17<scarabeus>scarab@arcarius: ~/tmp/openttd-0.7.0 $ ./configure --help |grep "\-\-with-allegrol"
18:17<scarabeus> --with-allegrol[=allegro-config]
18:18<scarabeus>well open bugs
18:18<@Bjarni>I read that Japan isn't using it, but wondered what it would mean so they are doing a test run. They use it in 3 cities, but nowhere else
18:18<scarabeus>or bug on the #gentoo-sunrise channel
18:18<@Bjarni>now that's messed up
18:18<Prof_Frink>See, if you wake up at stupid o'clock the day after they change to watch the race, it doesn't affect you.
18:18<Prof_Frink>*And* use the extra light in the evening to be out on the crag for longer
18:19<otih>if i opened a openttd-0.7.0 bug today, someone would "kill" me :P
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18:20<Prof_Frink>I don't think there's any ircops here
18:20<@Bjarni>otih: I wouldn't kill you
18:20<SmatZ>I wouldn't kill you, you are too far from me
18:20<@Bjarni>I would feed you to the crocodiles... but I wouldn't kill you
18:20<@Bjarni>you should feel the pain :P
18:20<bobo_b>Bjarni: done
18:21<otih>scarabeus: so could you add to layman ... perhaps i get cvs access one day ;)
18:21<@Bjarni>bobo_b: "make run-gdb"
18:21<@Bjarni>and then "run"
18:21<@Bjarni>and it crashes
18:21<@Bjarni>and what does bt say (don't copy paste to the channel)
18:21<Nite_Owl>have you actually ever been close to a large crocodile or alligator and do not mean 'at the zoo'
18:22<@Bjarni>I'm not even sure I have been close to any of those in a zoo
18:22<SmatZ>my parents were :) in florida, there is a crocodile farm or so :)
18:22<bobo_b>now it crashes with the same error it did before, but before i copied my ttd files in
18:23<Nite_Owl>very nasty animals - they will eat you and your dog
18:24<@Bjarni>my cousin had the idea to travel around USA without spending too much so he planned on sleeping outside in a sleeping bag. He just had to find somewhere where nobody would find him, but the locals told him that the aligators would find him and he would be a packed lunch for them without being able to get out of the sleeping bag in time
18:24<@Bjarni>he didn't think of that
18:24<SmatZ>8-) @ Bjarni
18:25<scarabeus>otih: cleaned ebuild :]
18:25<@Bjarni>bobo_b: ohh... try "run -D" instead XD
18:25<@Bjarni>and agree to restart when it asks you
18:25<@Bjarni>restart the app, that is
18:25<otih>scarabeus: diff? ;)
18:25<@Bjarni>now that would be a poor debugger... restart the computer every time you want to debug again
18:28<@Bjarni>it makes complete sense why it only fails over ssh now
18:28<bobo_b>i had that error before though. copying my ttd files in changed it to Bus error
18:28<@Bjarni>it tries to open the window for some reason and then it complains that it lacks a display
18:28<SmatZ>maybe it opens a window to complain about missing files?
18:28<@Bjarni>copy the files and try "run -D" again
18:29<@Bjarni>SmatZ: that's likely. It would be a bug in the window handling then
18:29<@Rubidium>it can't create a window, how can adding files fix that?
18:29<otih>scarabeus: use_with sdl is correct ....
18:29<@Bjarni>which I think I introduced >.<
18:29<@Bjarni>Rubidium: dedicated server
18:29<@Bjarni>it shouldn't open any windows
18:30<@Rubidium>well RegisterApplication sounds fairly important to me
18:30<scarabeus>otih: well quite possible but if it fails with the other one i preffer sdl more
18:30<otih>you can built without sdl, but with allegro
18:30<scarabeus>well the --with-allegro failed
18:30<otih>hmmm, where is the failure?
18:31<otih>!sdl? ( media-libs/allegro[X] )
18:31<scarabeus>--with-allegrol failed to find the argument
18:31<otih>could deleted, if we just use sdl!
18:32<SmatZ>use allegro is used by two packages
18:32<bobo_b>that seems quite strange to me:
18:32<SmatZ>hmm I am failing to emerge allegro
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18:32<SmatZ>bobo_b: type "bt"
18:33<scarabeus>anyway we preffer the sdl interface most
18:33<otih>scarabeus: file names are not case sensitive, so Rubidium said ....
18:33<otih>but, ebuild is ok!! ;)
18:34<@Rubidium>otih: now don't lie. I said that it wasn't the complete truth
18:34<otih>you commit?
18:34<otih>hehe, ok .... what is the truth?
18:34<@Bjarni>yeah now it crashed with the NULL pointer thing, which would cause a bus error. Looks like you managed to reproduce the same error again
18:34<scarabeus>otih: i need alowance from games team but i will commit it soon :}
18:34<scarabeus>otih: i am X/kde dev :D
18:34<@Rubidium>that both FULL UPPERCASE and full lowercase is checked
18:35<otih>ah ok ....
18:35<bobo_b>Bjarni, SmatZ: does that help you in any way?
18:35<@Rubidium>and no CamelCasing
18:35<@Bjarni>bobo_b: looks like running OTTD though ssh on OSX is broken right now >.<
18:35<otih>scarabeus: thanks for commit!
18:35<@Bjarni>bobo_b: it tells me why it fails.... sort of
18:35<SmatZ>bobo_b: yeah :) was the dedicated server working in the past?
18:35<@Bjarni>the display code is buggy
18:35<otih>but, adding my overlay to layman would be nice ;)
18:36<@Bjarni>bobo_b: what kind of server did you connect to?
18:36<bobo_b>it's working if i start it sitting at the machine, being logged in
18:36<@Bjarni>I mean do you have a display on the remote server?
18:36<scarabeus>otih: could you drop by tomorow on #gentoo-sunrise
18:36<@Bjarni><bobo_b> it's working if i start it sitting at the machine, being logged in <-- that would make sense
18:36<bobo_b>yeah, it's the one i work with every day
18:36<scarabeus>otih: i bet we would rip of your overlay to take the ebuilds to the tree or into the user overlay
18:36<scarabeus>it is the overlay where every user can commit
18:36<@Bjarni>bobo_b: so basically it's a server where nobody logged in that you access though ssh right now?
18:36<SmatZ>bobo_b: try "ssh -Y" instead of "ssh" when connecting
18:37<otih>hmmm, i dont understand completly
18:37<bobo_b>Bjarni: nobody should be logged in directly right now
18:37<bobo_b>SmatZ: ok, 1 sec
18:37<@Bjarni>I don't think I ever tested that scenario
18:37<@Bjarni>didn't think of it for some reason
18:38<scarabeus>otih: imagine the channel where we devs just oversee the ebuilds and users themself commit to some overlay which has official gentoo support
18:38*Rubidium blames linking with carbon and that crap ;)
18:38<@Bjarni>didn't think much of dedicated servers at all though. I tested them when I'm logged in and they worked so I didn't do much more
18:38<SmatZ>bobo_b: also, configure --enable-dedicated should help :)
18:38<SmatZ>"work around"
18:38<@Bjarni>Rubidium: I blame our code. The question is where it goes wrong
18:39<otih>yeah ok, but my overlay has software that should not be in portage
18:39<otih>nvidia beta etc
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18:39<scarabeus>hm isnt the beta on roslin overlay?
18:39<scarabeus>the lazy_bums tiny uberlay?
18:39<@Bjarni><SmatZ> bobo_b: try "ssh -Y" instead of "ssh" when connecting <-- OpenTTD doesn't use x11 on OSX so I don't think it will make a difference
18:40<SmatZ>Bjarni: :-(
18:40<bobo_b>it doesn't
18:40<bobo_b>at least with the 0.6.3 version
18:40<SmatZ>I thought OSX is more unix-ish :)
18:40<bobo_b>it doesn't use X tho
18:40<@Bjarni>you can use X11 though
18:40<bobo_b>well yes
18:40<otih>scarabeus: could be ;) but why not add my overlay?
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18:40<bobo_b>what does --enable-dedicated do?
18:41<@Bjarni>however try to compile with "--enable-dedicated" and see what happens
18:41<@Rubidium>it makes a dedicated server
18:41<scarabeus>because you have 5 ebuilds there, it is pointless to have overlays with few ebuilds, it is better to support users to use some already well known overlays
18:41<@Bjarni>it should hopefully disable the code that makes the app crash
18:41<@Rubidium>nah, it'll just blow on Cocoa ;)
18:42<otih>scarabeus: ok, you're right ;)
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18:43<bobo_b>ok, i'm going for a smoke until make is done
18:43<bobo_b>5 mins
18:43<scarabeus>otih: but really drop by, i bet we can use some of your ebuilds and force some to the tree :]
18:44<@Bjarni>statistically smoking takes 7 minutes
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18:44<otih>scarabeus: you think my ebuilds are ok?
18:45<scarabeus>well we do review usualy so you will learn from us slaping you for them :D
18:46<scarabeus>i just looked on the aircrack one and the dbus looks legitime
18:46-!-Aali [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:46<otih>ok, you talk from bugs.g.o ....
18:48<otih>$(use_with zlib) is twice in ebuild
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18:48<scarabeus>ok i hate it
18:48<scarabeus>it wont start by default
18:48<scarabeus>i have to run openttd -v sdl
18:49<scarabeus>it could try other v if the other fails
18:49<otih>hmmm, with my ebuild it works :P
18:50<scarabeus>with sdl compiled
18:50<scarabeus>it runs by default
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18:55<@Bjarni>that took 12 minutes
18:56<@Bjarni>you are 5 minutes late
18:57<bobo_b>had to put the dishes away i cleaned earlier
18:57<bobo_b>got stealing roomates
18:58<@Bjarni>you stole some roommates?
18:58<@Bjarni>isn't that like kidnapping?
18:58<bobo_b>more room for me?
18:59<@Bjarni>ok, the problem is fixed for you... for now
19:00<bobo_b>so, do i just copy the bin directory from where i built?
19:00<scarabeus>otih: nice
19:00<bobo_b>(usually there is a make install, so i don't know much about this)
19:01<@Bjarni>yes... well it needs the same version of lng and grf files, but if you compiled 0.7.0 and you have 0.7.0 somewhere else, then no problem
19:01<scarabeus>otih: i am going slowly to bed so i will commit the ebuild in the morning if no bugs pop out
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19:01<@Bjarni>make install isn't supported on mac
19:01<bobo_b>thought so
19:01<@Bjarni>that's a limitation of our makefile
19:01<@Bjarni>not make install itself
19:01<@Bjarni>we just decided not to code it
19:01<SmatZ>"decided"? not "lazy"?
19:01<bobo_b>well Bjarni, thank you very very much for your support
19:02<@Bjarni>SmatZ: it was a design decision
19:02<SmatZ>Bjarni: ok :o)
19:02<bobo_b>now that i works, i'll just go play simcity
19:02<@Rubidium>everything for OSX that isn't done is "decided" to be that way (by apple)
19:02<bobo_b>or settlers1
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19:02<@Bjarni>because at the time it wouldn't make sense. Maybe it could be introduced now with the new path handling though
19:03<deghost>when is signal in tunnel comming :D
19:03<@Rubidium>never ;)
19:03<@Bjarni>but at that time it wouldn't be able to find the data files so it really didn't make sense
19:03<deghost>i knew it!!
19:03<bobo_b>well ok i might give openttd a shot
19:03<@Rubidium>though the better answer would be "when it is done"
19:03<bobo_b>Bjarni: did i mention THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANKS?
19:03<bobo_b>oh, and all the others too of course
19:03<bobo_b>like SmatZ
19:04<bobo_b>because if i didn't...
19:04-!-Aali_ is now known as Aali
19:04<bobo_b>i can make it even more troll
19:04<deghost>is the only tts
19:04<deghost>to play
19:04-!-Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:04<deghost>for more funz
19:04<deghost>in making awsome huge network
19:05<deghost>try @openttdcoop
19:05<@Bjarni>bobo_b reminds me of the joke about a boy who gets a 1000 thanks and $100 and he replies that he would have preferred 100 thanks and $1000
19:05<deghost>try #openttdcoop
19:06<bobo_b>i actually thought about giving money to the project (which i don't do usually), but i only started playing (again) a week ago
19:06<bobo_b>but now that you asked for it...
19:06<bobo_b>have one more thanks
19:07<bobo_b>alright, i gotta get up in 6.x hours
19:07<bobo_b>so i guess i'm gonna hit the bed
19:07<@Bjarni>looks like bobo_b heads for bed to get his 6
19:09<bobo_b>ok, good night
19:09<bobo_b>and see you
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19:10<@Bjarni>you want video chat now?
19:10<@Bjarni>I'm not sure I would waste the bandwidth on such a thing
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19:13<bobo_b>read you?
19:13<bobo_b>i got so much bandwidth i'm video chatting with a tree in sweden 24/7 just to use parts of it...
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19:23<deghost>me too
19:23<deghost>can i talk to the tree?
19:26-!-Belugas [~belugas@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:26<@Rubidium>videochatting with a tree in Sweden? Shouldn't that be one in the Netherlands?
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19:29<@Rubidium> <- she's talking to trees too
19:31<otih>scarabeus: perfect! thanks for your help!
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20:59<Sacro>why has OpenTTD got the old purple/read icon
20:59<Sacro>not the new orange/green one?
21:03<Sacro>hmm, it seems GNOME-Brave comes with OpenTTD icons :O
21:05-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has quit [Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> <-]
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21:07<@Rubidium>then file a bug report to it
21:08-!-EoD [~chatzilla@2001:a60:f066:0:253c:4d70:460f:3c9e] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.1b3/20090314143441]]
21:10<Sacro>could be a bug, not sure
21:12<Sacro>Rubidium: any other distro reporting issues re: icon?
21:13<Sacro>Icon=openttd doesn't work
21:14<Sacro>openttd-beta and openttd-svn do
21:17<Sacro>I think it is something to do with using hicolor as the icon folder, is there a more generic place?
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21:18<Sacro>installation directory is showing as '/' when it isn't
21:18<Sacro>it's /home/ben/Packages/openttd/pkg
21:19<goodger>another ben! \o/
21:25<Sacro>Hey Ben!
21:26<goodger>quite :P
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22:42<Sacro>hmm, any download statistics for today?
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23:36<FiCE>hi there, I had a quick question about compiling r15906 for use in #openttdcoop
23:37<Sacro>that's nice
23:37<FiCE>I'm receiving the following compile error:
23:37<FiCE>[LANG] Generating table/strings.h
23:37<FiCE>/tmp/openttd-coop/src/lang/english.txt:5: FATAL: unknown pragma 'grflangid 0x01'
23:37<Sacro>Ah yes, that one
23:38<FiCE>at least it's known :)
23:38-!-TinoDidriksen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:39<FiCE>I couldn't find any reference to it in the bug tracker
23:39<FiCE>and no more recent commits seem to fix it
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 02 00:00:24 2009