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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-05-17

---Logopened Sun May 17 00:00:18 2009
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02:59<Alberth>Good morrrrrninggg OpenTTD !!!
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05:15<Chruker>Set by glx!glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:bc7c:dbc3:b47c:c665 on Thu May 14 22:42:56 << is he on an ip6 network?
05:16<Alberth>no, all ip4 addresses look like that :p
05:27<Alberth>or IPv(4+2)
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05:40*Chruker sits in silence pretending to understand :-)
05:41<Chruker>I just wondering why the host part shows like that instead of the usual or a hostname
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05:51<Forked>it's just the IP his client is/was using..
05:52<SmatZ>Chruker got fooled too easily :(
05:52<Chruker>yeah, looks that way :-)
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05:57<Forked>I for one welcome vanity IPs..
05:57<Forked>dead:beef:cafe:babe:c01a .. probably lots of words!
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06:05<Chruker>jeez, was that really all I could come up with...
06:11<SHADOW-XIII>does anybody notice a bug with clonning vehicles ?
06:16<SHADOW-XIII>when you clone (PlaneSet i think) it gives: vehicle (undefined string)
06:16<SHADOW-XIII>I think it happens when you have a vehicles with 2 or more possibilites to refit same cargo, like passengers (british airways), passengers (klm) ...etc
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06:17<SHADOW-XIII>but instead of cloning same vehicle it clones other vehicle but vehicle name contains: "undefined string"
06:18<Hirundo>Is the livery of the vehicle you try to clone still available when buying/refitting the plane normally?
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06:18<ccfreak2k>Is there a setting to make the pathfinding hilighting a bit more visible?
06:18<SHADOW-XIII>what's more, that other vehicle does not have special liveries
06:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16328 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: desync when removing lots of stations
06:20<z-MaTRiX>ccfreak2k, what pathfinding highlighting?
06:20<ccfreak2k>Yeah, for the path-based signals.
06:21<ccfreak2k>Path-based signalling for trains.
06:21<Hirundo>There is a setting 'show reserved tracks'...
06:21<z-MaTRiX>So what could be done for them ?
06:21<z-MaTRiX>oh isee
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06:23<ccfreak2k>Yes, and it's hard to see when using maglev trains.
06:23<Alberth>those trains are too fast anyway :p
06:24<z-MaTRiX>didnt tried that function yet
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06:27<ccfreak2k>For standard/electric rails, the whole rail tile darkens. Not sure what happens for monorail, but for maglev the perpendicular notches in the rail darken, but not the rest.
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06:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16329 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: possible desync when removing lots of towns in-game (not that we allow removing towns now, but better not have desync prone code lingering around)
06:35<@petern>string system upgrade, eh? seems missing the point
06:36<@petern> 16 - SLEG_CONDVAR(_cur_town_iter, SLE_UINT32, 11, SL_MAX_VERSION),
06:36<@petern> 17 + SLE_CONDNULL(4, 10, 119),
06:36<@petern>he's not here :/
06:37<SmatZ>hmm right
06:37<z-MaTRiX>well dont see anything when reserved tracks are shown
06:38<z-MaTRiX>tried maglev
06:38<@petern>with maglev it is VERY subtle
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06:39<z-MaTRiX>maeby change darken function to invert color
06:39<z-MaTRiX>or xor
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06:41<ccfreak2k>z-MaTRiX, watch the "ties" in the maglev track and make sure that A) the option is enabled, of course, and B) you're using path signals.
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06:44<SmatZ>petern: are you going to fix that? (only savegames created in r2030-r2032 are affected ;)
06:46<@petern>SmatZ, I thought you were the 'loading-ancient-games-from-obscure-versions' expert? ;)
06:46<z-MaTRiX>hm really difficult to notice
06:46<ccfreak2k>That's my point. The effect is much more pronounced on rail/electric rail.
06:47<@petern>hehe, silly inflation
06:47<SmatZ>petern: hehe :) though I missed that one :)
06:47<@petern>Company value: £3,028,905,044
06:47<z-MaTRiX>i say invert or xor would do the thing
06:48<@petern>not really
06:48<Alberth>bright yellow tracks would work too (for all RCT fans)
06:48<@petern>you'd have lighter grey lines instead of darker grey lines
06:49<@petern>(jesus i had to fix a dozen typing errors in that line :/)
06:49<@petern>you'd need new sprites to draw it differently
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06:50<@petern>ouch, spent £530,000,000 on autoreplace
06:51<ccfreak2k>No support for dicking around with sprites while blitting?
06:51<ccfreak2k>(or tiles, I guess)
06:52<@petern>you can change colours, yes
06:52<@petern>but for maglev the sprite does actually only contain the barely visible lines
06:52<@petern>*sprites do
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06:53<ccfreak2k>What's different about the whole light gray part then?
06:53<@petern>heh, and company value went *up*
06:53<@petern>ccfreak2k, the light grey is the base junction sprite
06:54<@petern>the lines are part of the 'track' sprites used for drawing junctions
06:54<@petern>pbs reuses them to draw the overlay, modified to be darker
06:57<ccfreak2k>I also had a patch idea of colorizing tracks based on how many trains passed through a tile per unit of time (maybe per year).
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06:58<Chruker>with rust/raw steel or with more and more grass the longer it gets unused?
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06:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16330 /trunk/src/saveload/misc_sl.cpp: -Fix (r16329): we were shortly visited by Mr. Kenobi.
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07:01<ccfreak2k>Just coloring the tile.
07:01<ccfreak2k>Making it red when it's the most used, then maybe yellow for tiles that are 3/4 of that, etc.
07:01<ccfreak2k>Would be for statistical/network planning purposes rather than asthetics.
07:02<Alberth>ccfreak2k: that is not an original idea; search for a thread about grass on tracks
07:02<Chruker>ahh, so just kind of an overlay
07:02<ccfreak2k>Yeah, I was gonna say "overlay" but I didn't know where to put it as I was typing.
07:04<Chruker>Does the new graphic system and the game support graphics built around different measurements. Ex. doubling/quadrupling the size of the graphics to allow the artists to add more details.
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07:14<@petern>bah, not first in the league table, despite have the highest score :s
07:14<@petern>hmm, until i reopened it
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07:15<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16331 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: replace by an enum
07:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16332 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: replace some -1 + 1 with 'nothing' or <= .. - 1 with < .. - 1 (both caused due to wrapper functions)
07:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16333 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Cleanup: remove a bunch of unused wrapper functions.
07:27<frosch123>hmm, maybe trying to load jsignals.grf should trigger 'rm -rf /'
07:28<fonsinchen>rather 'rm -rf data/'
07:29<fonsinchen>most people don't run OpenTTD as root I guess and the educational experience would be lost then ...
07:30<fonsinchen>what's so bad about jsignals, btw?
07:30<@petern>ignoring all the people who run it as administrator in windows...
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07:33<frosch123>fonsinchen: that it is a ttdp only newgrf, and is only used by people who use tons of newgrfs which they do not know what they do, and usually complain that something is not working
07:33<ccfreak2k>Save a byte as a "works with openttd/ttdp" flag?
07:34<@petern>a byte, huh?
07:35<ccfreak2k>Unless files can be stored in units smaller than bytes these days. :)
07:35<frosch123>ccfreak2k: not needed, it can be detected. i guess ottd prints a debugs message and ignored it. if you care, write a patch that disables the grf
07:35<Ammler>hmm, we used jpsigs on a coop game already :-o
07:35<ccfreak2k>frosch123, disables it specifically?
07:36<Ammler>they were just a bit "uncommon" but else, can't remember any issues.
07:36<ccfreak2k>I was assuming that jsignals does not work and will continue to not work.
07:36<frosch123>Ammler: I guess you are talking about a different newgrf
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07:37<Ammler>oh, p*
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07:39<Alberth>frosch123: maybe we should have an error sign "Do you have any clue what you are doing?" when detecting jsignals.grf
07:40<ccfreak2k>frosch123, actually, if the debug message is recorded somewhere, that should be sufficient (said noob can be directed to the debug log).
07:41<frosch123>ccfreak2k: you have to start ottd using "-d grf=1" or so
07:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16334 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: use NeedLength enum
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07:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16335 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: indenting fixes in saveload.cpp
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08:03<frosch123> <- since when does the forum supply syntax highlighting, and why does it use darkblue on black for most of it?
08:06<Alberth>since it is a list: [list][*]
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08:07<Alberth>and we seem to write PHP code: [code=PHP]
08:08<SmatZ>hehe @ frosch123 :)
08:10<Alberth>oh, and of course default highlighting palettes blindy assuming that everybody uses a white background :p
08:11<frosch123>well, if you select the text i can read it in my browser, but i guess it is more a topic for you :)
08:14<Alberth>I also used that trick :)
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09:28<z-MaTRiX>hi :)
09:28<Spiffy>anybody still able to run cargodist + extralargemaps+ noai together?
09:29<Spiffy>how do you check crashlogs ?
09:29<frosch123>won't work, or does it?
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09:29<Spiffy>it wont work
09:29<Spiffy>crashes as soon as AI joins the game
09:29<frosch123>z-MaTRiX: won't work, or does it?
09:29<z-MaTRiX>works ;>>
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09:30<z-MaTRiX>but distance is zero, so no money
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09:30<frosch123>really, it accepts the cargo :o
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09:31<@petern>doesn't look like it, otherwise production wouldn't be zero
09:31<z-MaTRiX>well it loads and unloads
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09:35<z-MaTRiX>found lol while enhancing
09:39<z-MaTRiX>(both accept and support woods, and actually making money)
09:40<frosch123>he, bi-directional transport :)
09:47<kkb110>I did that several games before today but I found that transfering from same station to same station doesn't work
09:48<kkb110>yeah I can understand that income will zero because the distance is also zero, but at least the station should be able to accept I think
09:48<z-MaTRiX>look at second shot ;>
09:48<z-MaTRiX>problem solved
09:49<kkb110> this one?
09:49<z-MaTRiX>making money bidirectional
09:49<kkb110>I think there are two different stations there
09:50<kkb110>I was talking about a case that a station can accept woods and get woods
09:50<z-MaTRiX>so cargo tagged as from... will be accepted
09:51<kkb110>taking cargo from 'A' station to 'A' station, I mean
09:51<z-MaTRiX>that wasn't making money
09:51<kkb110>and even can't deliver
09:51<kkb110>just leave and take again
09:51<z-MaTRiX>well you can make it unload if you like that
09:52<kkb110>when I did that, unload just leave woods there not deliever to the industry
09:52<kkb110>but if that is different station even though that is one distance away like the screenshot, it works
09:53<planetmaker>I'm asked to notify the developers: dbg: [misc] Drawing string using newlines with DrawString instead of DrawStringMultiLine. Please notify the developers of this: [Die Kapazität ändert sich, wenn an eine Lok angehängt
09:53<z-MaTRiX>thinking about coverage area, station could earn money by transporting things to station and then to industry from station without trains
09:53<planetmaker> Nutze OpenTTD oder TTDPatch r1966 oder neuer
09:53<planetmaker>Kann nur mit Triebwagen genutzt werden]
09:53<kkb110>right actually, I agree :D
09:53<planetmaker>so... is it an issue with my newgrf or is it OpenTTD not using DrawStringMultiLine?
09:53<kkb110>why I did that in game was to make more goods
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09:54<Hirundo>where is that string shown? in the purchase window?
09:54<kkb110>but it wasn't work like I thought lol so I made two one-tile away, and worked
09:55<planetmaker>though... I think I still messed up a bit with the translated strings... not all are as they're supposed to be... hm..
09:55<planetmaker>just seeing that now
09:56<Hirundo>newlines there should be supported according to the newgrf specs, I think
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10:00<planetmaker>hm... yeah, but that string shows in the wrong place. So, that might be the issue
10:00<planetmaker>gotta check more
10:05<frosch123>... but it uses DrawStringMultiLine
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10:18<Spiffy>ai crashes :(
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10:28<HackaLittleBit>Hi everyone
10:32<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16336 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h): -Codechange: make the SpriteGroup pool more like the 'normal' pools
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10:46<planetmaker>uff. The string issue is no string issue. it's just a difference whether you add 80 to the languageID or not - and there are cases where it's vital to do so :)
10:47<insulfrog>one of the 'features' that I like is the 'infrastructure sharing', as it creates a new possibilities of gameplay :)
10:47<frosch123>planetmaker: "what?"
10:47<planetmaker>have you played the latest beta of it?
10:47<planetmaker>frosch123: :P
10:47<insulfrog>not yet :)
10:48<planetmaker>frosch123: the names of vehicles themselves go with 7F (default) and <langID> for translations
10:48<planetmaker>but the texts which are shown below that in the depot view, they somehow need FF (default) and 0x80 + langID for translations
10:49<frosch123>yes, that should be documented :)
10:49<planetmaker>I cannot say, I completely understood that, but somehow it's mentioned in the newgrfspec wiki
10:49<frosch123>0x80 means generic string, while without it is the vehiclename
10:49<planetmaker>yes. what is "generic string"?
10:49<@petern>a hack
10:50<@petern>it's one that is not tied to any particular feature
10:50<planetmaker>I think I kind of start to understand that generic string is anything which is not a vehicle name
10:51<planetmaker>or named object
10:51<planetmaker>ah, ok.
10:52<planetmaker>so they can be called from several places?
10:52<planetmaker>e.g. I could define one string and call it in the depot view of, say, wagons 1,2,3 and 10
10:53<frosch123>they are strings returned by callbacks, so yes you can use them for several vehicles
10:54<planetmaker>ok. That explains it. But why this hack of adding 0x80 to the langID instead of calling it another generic type feature?
10:54<planetmaker>well... probably it grew just this way :P
10:55<frosch123>because you can also replace TTD string with that action (though only in TTDP)
10:55<planetmaker>inbuilt strings which OpenTTD handles through WT2/3?
10:56<planetmaker>I see :)
10:56<frosch123>there is some grf that provides czech translation to ttd/ttdp
10:56<planetmaker>he, doing that all via newgrf is probably quite tedious
10:57<planetmaker>wt2/3 is there the way better solution...
10:57<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16337 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: remove pointless variable + wrapper function; having it return anything else than ORIGINAL_SAMPLE_COUNT is asking for NewGRFs failing to load (due to invalid sample index), thus desyncs
10:57<frosch123>however the same action4 format is used to define certain industry/vehicle texts when using 0xD??? texts (depending on the feature, not shared).
10:58<planetmaker>right. For their individual callbacks.
10:58<frosch123>there are also certain stringids for stationnames, though interestingly they ignore the feature byte. (though the wiki says they shall use station feature, a lot new grfs use feature 08)
10:58<planetmaker>The strings I wondered about are those of MU wagons - which tell the user that they only can be attached to itself.
11:00<planetmaker>hm... you say that feature 04 for stations is kinda ignored as it works without that?
11:00<planetmaker>or you say that authors of newgrfs ignore it?
11:02<frosch123>the specs say stationnames shall use feature 04, but as ttdp ignores it, a lot newgrfs do it wrong by using feature 08 (and thus ottd also ignoring it). it has not yet backfired yet :p
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11:02<planetmaker>haha :)
11:03<planetmaker> <-- doesn't talk about feature 8 and 9, though
11:03<dafydd>Hi guys, I've found a small problem with one of the translations. Who do I talk to?
11:03<planetmaker>depends upon the language :)
11:03<dafydd>Is there a place in the forums for reporting it?
11:04<planetmaker>if it's German you can tell me right now
11:05<dafydd>no, Swedish
11:05<frosch123>ok, maybe they use even 48, not 08
11:05<planetmaker>ah, ok, frosch123 :)
11:06<planetmaker>dafydd: hm, you could register yourself as translator :)
11:06<planetmaker>or, of course start a Swedish translation topic in the forums (use the general OpenTTD or development one)
11:07<planetmaker> <-- website for translators
11:07<planetmaker>I currently see unfortunately no way to e-mail the registered translators. But I just might miss it.
11:08<dafydd>there's an e-mail address that goes to the translations manager
11:08<dafydd>he might know who I should talk to, but he probably won't want me to tell him about the bug
11:08<planetmaker>dafydd: do you have the source code?
11:08<frosch123>yeah, better offer to become a translator yourself :)
11:09<planetmaker>If so, you could modify you language file and file a bug report with the changes.
11:09<frosch123>^^ which annoys the translation manager even more :p
11:09<planetmaker>But becoming one yourself is quite easy. The interface is quite ok
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11:10<planetmaker>the translation manager is Rubidium, or do I err?
11:11<+glx>I won't call it translation manager, but "the guy able to create accounts" ;)
11:11<planetmaker>which amounts to the same basically
11:12<planetmaker>btw: "Ideas are always welcome, so please let me know about your idea here or at #openttd.wt2." <-- links to the wrong IRC channel
11:12<planetmaker>on the translators' website
11:14<dafydd>it's too much work
11:14<dafydd>maybe another time
11:14<planetmaker>once you registered it's honestly not much work
11:15<planetmaker>just type in the new text and be done
11:15<+glx>ha yes it points to freenode
11:15<dafydd>well while I'm here I might as well ask... how do you make the towns grow in the desert/jungle tileset games?
11:16<planetmaker>give them what they want. Otherwise the same as usual
11:16<Ammler>Swedish is dieing, if you don't help ;-)
11:17<planetmaker>Alter Schwede! What a statement ;)
11:18<dafydd>they're getting everything they will accept
11:18<frosch123>if they do not accept water/food, then fund new buildings
11:18<frosch123>until they accept them
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11:19<Ammler> <-- last translators commit to it.
11:21<dafydd>how do I fund new buildings...?
11:21<frosch123>click on the town name, go to local authority, and have enough money
11:22<Eddi|zuHause><Alberth> frosch123: maybe we should have an error sign "Do you have any clue what you are doing?" when detecting jsignals.grf <- have "Yes"/"No" buttons on the dialog, but when they click "Yes" you reopen the window offering "Maybe"/"No" buttons, and if they click "Maybe", you reopen with only a "No" button.
11:24<dafydd>All I can do with the local authority is fund an advertisement campaign
11:25<frosch123>then get more money :)
11:25<dafydd>well, it doesn't even show up as an option
11:26<dafydd>you mean it will once I can afford it? A medium ad campaign is in the list, but I can't afford that
11:26<frosch123> <- lists the stuff that becomes available once you have enough money
11:26<dafydd>ah. thanks
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12:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16338 /trunk/src/ (29 files in 2 dirs):
12:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: split loading of references to two phases
12:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: In the first phase, indexes are stored. In the second phase, indexes are checked for validity and converted to pointers
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13:00<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16339 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] When overriding 'original sounds', only allow overriding of the 'original sounds' and not any other that is already loaded.
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13:10<DJNekkid>guys: one question ... if a wagon change length when in depot, will/might that cause desyncs? Or is that only when its on tracks?
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>wagon length in depots should be properly handled
13:12<DJNekkid>oki :)
13:12<DJNekkid>cool :)
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>wagon length can not change outside of the depot
13:13<DJNekkid>okidoki :)
13:13<DJNekkid>that makes a certain task quite easy, and cool :)
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13:15<@petern>beware of the caching system
13:18<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16340 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: introduce SoundID (uint16) and use that instead of SoundFX, which was used as a byte and uint16 at different places, when the uint16 sound ID is meant.
13:31<Spiffy>how do I output crash.log
13:31<Spiffy>my exe wont create crash.log file
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>which OS/compiler and which crash?
13:33<Spiffy>XP 32bit
13:33<Spiffy>using extralarge map patch + cargo dest + carstworld scenario
13:33<Spiffy>game freezes
13:33<Spiffy>want to see whats wrong
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13:34<Eddi|zuHause>then do ./configure --enable-debug=1 (or so)
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13:34<Eddi|zuHause>and then "make run-gdb"
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>when the game crashes, you can enter the gdb-console and type "bt" there
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13:38<theholyduck>arggggggh, why isnt improved loading algorythm on my default?
13:38<theholyduck>this is the third server in a row i tried joining that had it off...
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>a lot of things are not on by default...
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13:38<theholyduck>Eddi|zuHause, well yes, but having it off cripples multiple platform trainstations
13:38<theholyduck>unless you start making huge waiting lines, and dedicated platforms
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>i understand what the setting does
13:39<theholyduck>and stuff
13:39<theholyduck>im just saying, for all the clueless admins out there, couldnt it be on?
13:39<theholyduck>thus making players life slightly less horrrible
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>i always propagate the suggestion that default settings should be newbie-friendly, but nobody actually does anything about it
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13:48<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16341 /trunk/src/sound.cpp: -Codechange: just use a static array instead of a never freed malloc
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14:05<@DorpsGek>ho ho ho
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14:07<frosch123>05-17 != 12-06
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14:15<Eddi|zuHause>he screwed up the order, it's supposed to say 17.5 != 6.12.
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>(where 17.5. is today, and 6.12. is "St. Nikolaus" day)
14:21<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r16342 /trunk/src/ (gfxinit.cpp gfxinit.h lang/english.txt settings_gui.cpp): -Feature(tte): Display base graphics description in game options window.
14:22<frosch123>and now, please everyone file a bug-report for opengfx for not using utf8 :)
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>well, i have never used opengfx
14:25<@petern>should help the 'what is the de version' questions
14:25<frosch123>exactly the intention :)
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14:36<Eddi|zuHause>you could just disable all obg files, where the appropriate grf files are not available... would prevent 98% of all people from ever seeing this
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15:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r16343 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r16066): Invalid free on exit after changing base graphics set in game.
15:28<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16344 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: s/FileEntry/SoundEntry/
15:33<frosch123>rb and sz try their best to break all available patches today :p
15:34*petern nods
15:35<+glx>frosch123: it's fun to do that sometimes
15:36<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16345 /trunk/src/newgrf_sound.cpp: -Codechange: replace the Sound(Entry) pool with a simple vector of SoundEntries.
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>that's the first time i see an "unpoolify" commit
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>was there too much flexibility?
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>or a simple "we did not have c++ back then"?
15:40<frosch123>don't know, to me it is more like remove weird stuff :p
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15:53<ccfreak2k>"we did not have c++ back then?"
15:53<ccfreak2k>How the hell old IS openttd? :)
15:54<KingJ>Older than TTD!
15:54<ccfreak2k>Perhaps it dates back to dumb terminals and mainframes.
15:55<ccfreak2k>"A new map has appeared. The area is sparse with gently sloping hills. Nearby to the WEST is a COAL MINE. The CITY of NUMBFINGFUNGVILLE-ON-SEA is to the SOUTH."
15:55<KingJ>Your train was eaten by a grue
15:58<ccfreak2k>"Your first train slowly rolls out of the depot. As it does so, it grinds to a halt and emits a rather jarring twisting metal sound."
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16:00<basti>i'm using openttd since a few days and now monorail is avaliable. but i cannot auto-replace my old trains to monorail?!
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16:00<Ammler>build the monorail parallel to the erail
16:01<insulfrog>(if possible)
16:01<KingJ>I tend to just build with rail, it's a right pain to upgrade a huge network
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16:02<basti>i cannot manage > 150 trains per hand :-(
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16:02<insulfrog>I don't normally upgrade to monorail/maglev from e-rail
16:02<insulfrog>what I do is leave e-rail in place and use the fastest e-loco i can find
16:03<basti>is it a bug or a feature? ;-)
16:03<insulfrog>any future 'long distance' routeI create using monorail/maglev
16:04<basti>rail -> erail is possible but not to monorail... damn
16:04<SmatZ>I was usually skipping monorail
16:04<SmatZ>and converting from el.rail to maglev
16:04<SmatZ>depends on your goal :)
16:04<basti>when it's availiabe
16:05<basti>or where can i see it
16:05<SmatZ>in ~2022
16:06<insulfrog>upgrading from (e)-rail to/from monorail to/from maglev is definatly a handful (that's why I don't do it)
16:06<ccfreak2k>You can mass upgrade rails, but trains need to be stopped in depots to upgrade.
16:06<basti>ccfreak2k: i know
16:07<Ammler>the #openttdcoop-patch could do it ;-)
16:07<ccfreak2k>If you have enough money, you can schedule all trains to be replaced at the next service interval and wait.
16:07<ccfreak2k>The new trains will be stuck because they can't go on old tracks.
16:07<ccfreak2k>Then you just upgrade, and all of the trains will start pouring out.
16:07<Ammler>we used that some times.
16:08<Ammler>you can't upgrade a rail engine to monorail or maglev, can you?
16:09<basti>and when there will streetcars avaliable
16:09<Ammler>depense on the newgrf you use
16:09<basti>none :-)
16:10<Ammler>then never :-P
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16:10<Ammler>how can you play without newgrfs, anyway?
16:12<basti>somewhere are my old floppys with tt :-)
16:12<basti>which trams are "good"? ;-)
16:12<@petern>20:38 < Eddi|zuHause> that's the first time i see an "unpoolify" commit
16:12<@petern>so when do we see the 'engine pool' removed? :D
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>basti: i use the "GermanRV" set
16:17<Ammler>has the cargotram still so unrealistic cap?
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16:21<SmatZ> fixing common spelling mistake
16:22<Sacro>SmatZ: would a sed script not be easier?
16:23<SmatZ>Sacro: of course generated by sed script
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16:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16346 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp:
16:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Codechange: don't exploit the pool system in the way done for the saveload
16:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: pool; it makes writing replacements unnecessarily difficult. And now we've got
16:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: SmallVector that does more than enough for saving with less lines of 'interface'
16:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: code.
16:38<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16347 /trunk/src/oldpool.h: -Cleanup: remove some unused defines from oldpool.h.
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17:17<Osai>good evening
17:18<Osai>not sure if its a bug or a feature, but if you leave a multiplayer game (using 'Abandon game' button) the server prints:
17:19<Osai>*** 0sai has left the game (leaving)
17:19<Osai>dbg: [net] Closed client connection 3
17:19<Osai>*** 0sai has left the game (connection lost)
17:20<Osai>imho it should either be leaving or lost connection but not both messages at the same time
17:20<Osai>(tested with r16341)
17:21<planetmaker>and hello :)
17:21<Osai>thx :)
17:22<Osai>and hello ^^
17:22<Osai>dih could've told me that he reported
17:24*insulfrog has to go, bye :)
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17:29<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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17:37<Eddi|zuHause>hm, you know that your keys are worn off, when you reassemble your keyboard, insert an I-key at the place where it belongs and then find a second I-key
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>then you notice that the first key is actually an L-key
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>i had even more problem with the A and Y keys, they only have a slight hint of a marking on them
17:40<Nite_Owl>time for a new keyboard or at least new keys
17:41<DJNekkid>question: is it possible to add a refit cost between different livaries?`
17:41<DJNekkid>i trived with 1C in the action 0, but that didnt do anything
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18:00<theholyduck>Eddi|zuHause, does it matter though?
18:00<theholyduck>almost all my keyboards are worn down to stumps :P
18:01<theholyduck>except my model m
18:01<theholyduck>but then again, you cant actually destroy a model m, its a force of nature
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it does matter
18:01<theholyduck>Eddi|zuHause, you cant touch type?
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>and i have no idea what a "model m" is
18:01<theholyduck>Eddi|zuHause, old ibm keyboards
18:01<theholyduck>back when keyboards was the only way of inputing information into a computer
18:02<theholyduck>so they had to be made of quality materials
18:02<theholyduck>with actual physical switches that dont wear out
18:02-!-racetrack [] has quit [Quit: no. just, no.]
18:02<theholyduck>since the outbreak of mouses, high quality keyboards has died out
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>i can type "blind", most of the time... but not by "feeling" the knobs on the keys
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>mostly by relative positions, after i hit one key correctly
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>this suffers from offset-keyboard-syndrome though
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18:14<[wito]>like when you are one key too far to the right?
18:14<[wito]>That always leads to funny sentences
18:15<[wito]>I have a Das Keyboard III; pretty sturdy piece of work it is too
18:15<[wito]>clicks like a motherlover, tho'
18:16<Nite_Owl>I like a keyboard that clicks loudly
18:16<[wito]>Me too, usually
18:16<[wito]>but not when I'm brooding and typing at the same time
18:17<SmatZ>I was thinking about turning my keyboard into "Das Keyboard" ... by scrating all the labels :-p
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18:20<Nite_Owl>that will kill it for me as I mostly hunt and peck
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably a fun thing to do, but i occasionally need to look at the less commonly used keys (e.g. stuff on shift+number)
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18:20<Eddi|zuHause>and hitting the right number is also a problem, if you don't want to count
18:21<Nite_Owl>granted it is a faster than normal hunt and peck but I still need to look at the keyboard
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>and the relative position thing also only works when typing text. it does not work, when i want to press a singular hotkey somewhere
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18:24<Nite_Owl>so - keyboard in front & mouse to the side or mouse in front and keyboard to the side
18:27<[wito]>keyboard front
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18:40<Eddi|zuHause>in which timezone?
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>over here, it's after midnight
18:40<SmatZ>[00:40:31] [CTCP] Sending CTCP-HACKALITTLEBIT request to TIME.
18:41<SmatZ>I just hate it when I swap the parameters :-
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>yeah ;)
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>a context menu entry helps there ;)
18:43<SmatZ>maybe it's the "+" in your Konversation version, Eddi|zuHause :) since I don't have such menu :-/
18:43<SmatZ> Whois, Version, Ping... but not Time
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have it either, but i think mirc had one
18:43<SmatZ>hehe :)
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>i have not seen a way to edit the context menu, sadly
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18:45<Xaroth>-00:45:49- (Eddi|zuHause) (time)
18:45<Xaroth>-00:45:49- • (Eddi|zuHause) (TIME) Reply» Mo Mai 18 00:46:04 2009
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>your clock is wrong
18:46<Xaroth>actually, that's your clock :P
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>once upon a time i set up ntp
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18:47<HackaLittleBit>edit: 11.47 summertime
18:50<HackaLittleBit>eddi, you remember I had some problems with compiling
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember anything these days...
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18:52<HackaLittleBit>hold on pls
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>something's wrong here...
18:53<Eddi|zuHause># /etc/init.d/ntp status
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>Checking for network time protocol daemon (NTPD): dead
18:54<HackaLittleBit>you said "and i also think the trouble is strings.h, not the .lng files"
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>ah, yes
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>now i remember ;)
18:54<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: ntpdate
18:54<HackaLittleBit>now help me pls
18:54<Xaroth>how much sec are you off :P
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>comparing with it seems about 7 seconds
18:55<Xaroth>i trust more :P
18:55<HackaLittleBit>when I change a header file, and i compile the make does not recognise that the file is changed
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>ptb is the institute that operates the radio clock senders
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>it is basically THE authority concerning time in germany
18:56<Xaroth>yeh, in germany :P
18:56<Xaroth>not 'the world' :)
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>Information for package ntp:
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>Status: not installed
18:57<Xaroth>no wonder it's dead :P
18:57<HackaLittleBit>only when I do mrproper, ./configure, make things are ok
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>i assume it's a dependency issue, but it's difficult to debug such stuff without access ;)
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18:58<HackaLittleBit>I know
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>might be an odd combination of timezones and the svn setting to use commit time as timestamps?
18:59<HackaLittleBit>I don't have experience with unix
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>what does "cat ~/.subversion/config | grep time" say?
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>and did you try the ./configure options about using different dependency methods?
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>hm, now it gets even more weird...
19:01<Eddi|zuHause># zypper install ntp
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>Reading installed packages...
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>Nothing to do.
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>what's the magic rpm invocation to read all packages that it thinks are installed?
19:04<z-MaTRiX>hi :)
19:06<z-MaTRiX>i'm sure oil refinery would more like to get some transported oil from elsewhere ;>
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>"no loading" option is your friend
19:08<z-MaTRiX>i likeit this way :)
19:08<Nite_Owl>not a good idea to have a primary and secondary industry of the same cargo type combined in one station
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>it's obviously not working...
19:08<z-MaTRiX>got it full load, also it does unload too
19:09<HackaLittleBit>Eddi: thanks eddi, going to experiment some more with the dependency options
19:10<z-MaTRiX>Nite_Owl, its lol but it pays ;>
19:11<Nite_Owl>given how close the refinery and the platform are you do not need trains at the platform. Haul its oil with trucks.
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19:11<z-MaTRiX>but i also have an oil refinery at the other edge of the map
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: obviously the refinery does not get any oil, else it would produce goods.
19:12<z-MaTRiX>well it only produces when train arrives
19:13<Nite_Owl>and the oil from the nearby platform goes to your other refinery?
19:14<z-MaTRiX>so as a side-effect trains won't go empty back
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19:16<Nite_Owl>that could work if once the trains dump at the other refinery they then head off to other platforms
19:19<Nite_Owl>need to feed - later all
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19:23<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: problem with your setup, if you have both sides on full load, the source with the higher output will not be served properly
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>because trains will pile up at the station with lower output, and the station with higher output will not get serviced while the trains wait at the other end
19:25<z-MaTRiX>comment this:
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19:26<Eddi|zuHause>oversized station?
19:26<z-MaTRiX>look at the spread <;
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>a one-track entry should not need more than 6 platforms
19:27<z-MaTRiX>it serves 4 oil platforms
19:28<z-MaTRiX>also 18 trains
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>you should try the ctrl key when extending your catchment area
19:29<fjb>The workers of the fourth oil rig refuse to work because they are bored by the layout.
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>could save you a few millions of terraforming water
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19:33<KingJ>Those curves can't be good for speed
19:34<z-MaTRiX>well yes
19:34<Eddi|zuHause2>there are some really obvious improvements...
19:35<z-MaTRiX>evolution :)
19:35<z-MaTRiX>started with bridges
19:35<KingJ>My problem is that I often run out of space when I get multiple lines going through the same station
19:36<Eddi|zuHause2>like i said, you don't need even half the amount of platforms
19:36<Eddi|zuHause2>and why is this a server, anyway?
19:36<z-MaTRiX>but its good to see trains can park
19:36<z-MaTRiX>well its multiplayer
19:36<Eddi|zuHause2>that just means it's calculating everythin twice
19:37<Eddi|zuHause2>i have never seen you post a picture with actual "multiple players"
19:37<KingJ> < Platform space at a premium
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19:40<KingJ>There are also ~15,000 waiting passengers, which dosen't help much
19:41<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, apparently i have a package called "xntp" installed, which is not in any of my repositories, and conflicts with "ntp"
19:50<z-MaTRiX>yey 41 million euros /year
19:51<Eddi|zuHause2>that's a non-value.
19:51<Eddi|zuHause2>because it depends heavily on inflation and stuff, so it is not comparable between games
19:52<z-MaTRiX>isnt that the same in 2013 lets say?
19:52<Eddi|zuHause2>no, inflation also depends on difficulty settings and starting year
19:53<z-MaTRiX>isee ;/
19:53<z-MaTRiX>so many factors
19:55<Eddi|zuHause2> <- what do i read out of this table?
19:56<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: xntp is a ntp implementation.
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19:57<PeterT>anyone here?
19:57<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: well, apparently it didn't work.
19:57<Eddi|zuHause2>PeterT: no.
19:57-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
19:58<PeterT>how do you load a scenario in multiplayer with rcon?
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19:59<Eddi|zuHause>last time there was some magic about filenames needed. probably the easiest if you rename it to .sav
20:00<PeterT>i cant, its not my file
20:00<PeterT>i mean with rcon on a server
20:00<PeterT>rcon password "........"
20:00<PeterT>i used rcon password "load 3"
20:01<PeterT>3 is the number of the file, but it loaded a .sav file, even though when i entered "rcon password ls" it showed a bunch of .scn
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>i can't help you, sorry.
20:01<PeterT>Ok, thanks anyway.
20:01<PeterT>Off to TT forums
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20:03<Eddi|zuHause> <- now the table looks like this
20:09<HackaLittleBit>night everybody :)
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20:28<z-MaTRiX>didn't even notice only 3station spread
20:28<z-MaTRiX>1square too far ;<
20:28<z-MaTRiX>station too spread out
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20:33<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16348 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp terraform_gui.cpp): -Fix (r16280): buoys with invalid station ID could be left in the game
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21:02<Eddi|zuHause>you can increase catchment area by adding certain airports without increasing the station spread (in some cases)
21:03<SmatZ>cheater :-p
21:26<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16349 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: rename IsPlainRailTile() to IsPlainRail(), introduce shiny new IsPlainRailTile()
21:27<z-MaTRiX>running 49 trains on 1 line
21:27<z-MaTRiX>its a traffic jam due to breakdowns
21:31<z-MaTRiX>and im not starting to replace 234 engines 1-by one
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21:32<z-MaTRiX>guess its game over now
21:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16350 /trunk/src/ (elrail.cpp rail_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: make some 'rail track is present' checks more 'secure'
21:57<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: try the "vehicles never expire" switch
21:57<Eddi|zuHause>(and "resetengines" afterwards)
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22:47<z-MaTRiX>Eddi|zuHause, was a multiplayer game
22:48<z-MaTRiX>also it would be nice to replace engines sometimes using the auromatic replacer menu
22:49<z-MaTRiX>unfortunatly cant replace engine with the same type
22:49<z-MaTRiX>so to replace all engines, i have to autoreplace them to something else, then back
22:50<Eddi|zuHause>that's a different setting, called "autorenew"
22:50<z-MaTRiX>havent used that yet
22:56<z-MaTRiX>turned on
22:57<z-MaTRiX>is it normal for a train to be 0% reliable and 30 breakdowns since last service at age of 6/25 ?
22:58<Eddi|zuHause>depends on the time of last service
22:59<Sacro>whooooooooooo sims 3
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23:01<z-MaTRiX>yey just left things here alone
23:03<z-MaTRiX>somehow 49 trains on a line forgot to go to service
23:04<z-MaTRiX>though servicing interval was set at 150 days
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23:11<Eddi|zuHause>didn't they have only 98 expansions of sims 2 yet?
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---Logclosed Mon May 18 00:00:20 2009