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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-05-20

---Logopened Wed May 20 00:00:26 2009
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04:06<planetmaker>I've got an nfo problem: how can I tell grfcodec to interpret a file with the correct character encoding, e.g. Vagão vs Vagão
04:06<planetmaker>I'm on linux for this purpose
04:17<@petern>grfcodec doesn't care about encoding
04:17<@petern>use utf-8
04:17<@petern>because openttd wants it
04:17<planetmaker>yes, that's what I try...
04:18<@petern>also put the thorn in, as the spec says
04:18<planetmaker>so... I guess, then my question is: how do convert the file from whatever encoding to utf-8
04:18<planetmaker>like vi and using :set enc=utf-8 displays it nicely.
04:19<planetmaker> <-- basically I'm concerned about that file
04:19<@petern>you've not put the thorn in
04:20<@petern>also, why the big space?
04:20<planetmaker>uhm? thorn?
04:20<@petern>09:18 <@petern> also put the thorn in, as the spec says
04:22<planetmaker>ah, Thanks. That's what I was missing.
04:22*planetmaker goes trying to add that
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04:36<planetmaker>nice. That works almost for Portuguese.
04:38<planetmaker>There's one character, though, which obviously is still interpreted differently than intended: the enumeration symbol 1ªG
04:38<planetmaker>(the one in the middle, corresponding to st, nd, rd, th in English, list 1st, 2nd, 3rd)
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04:40<planetmaker>anyone an idea how that is called?
04:40<@petern>what happens to it?
04:40<planetmaker>knowing the name, I could possibly define a custom character.
04:40<@petern>maybe there's just no character...
04:40<@petern>tried with a font? heh
04:40<planetmaker>it gets converted into the downward arrow as seen for windows in the upper right corner
04:41<@petern>that's wrong
04:41<@petern>no gui characters overlap standard characters
04:42<planetmaker>well. actually the arrow which OpenTTD uses for its scroll bars
04:42<planetmaker>but yeah
04:42<@petern>or at least, shouldn't do, heh
04:42<@petern>,...{ 0x00AA, CLRA }, // Feminine ordinal indicator / Down arrow
04:43<planetmaker>so... they DO overlap?
04:43<@petern>CLRA means it is cleared from the available characters
04:43<planetmaker>meh... :S
04:43<@petern>so i have no idea how you're getting it :p
04:44<@petern>,...,..., 0xAA: d += Utf8Encode(d, SCC_DOWNARROW); break;
04:46<planetmaker>hm... which source file is that found in?
04:49<@petern>hmm, no, that's wrong
04:49<@petern>planetmaker, congrats, you found a bug
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04:50<planetmaker>he... not sure whether I shall be happy or sad :P
04:50<@petern>-Codechange: support the unicode version of the 'control' characters.
04:50<planetmaker>shall I make a report or do you want to work on it now?
04:50<@petern>^ wron
04:50<@petern>but rubidium is not here :S
04:50<@petern>@seen rubidium
04:50<@DorpsGek>petern: rubidium was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 13 hours, 5 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you shouldn't count your age with your fingers! ;)
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04:51<planetmaker>well... he's in #openttd.noai
04:51<@petern>lol, dec 2007
04:53<@petern>well, you can ask him, i'm not chasing devs who disappear
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04:55<planetmaker>ok, I'll make a simple bug report then.
04:55<planetmaker>thank you a lot for checking right here now :)
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05:03<planetmaker>bug report added. I hope you don't mind me pasting our recent chat in there, petern
05:04<@petern>i don't see it
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05:04<planetmaker>hm... yes. It says still waiting for I guess it will apear soon
05:05<@petern>should be instant
05:05<planetmaker>well. I attached the newgrf. It's not tiny :P
05:05<planetmaker>and the corresponding nfo files.
05:06<planetmaker>the normal page is accessible here instantly, too
05:08<planetmaker>hm... it shouln't take *that* long. It's only 1.3MB...
05:08<De_Ghosty>u KILLED IT
05:09<planetmaker>now. uploaded at 3rd try
05:11<@petern>if you read the wiki spec, it states that the unencoded form should translate to the special chars, and the encoded form should be used as is
05:11<@petern>which is what happened pre r11622
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05:15<planetmaker>we have a nice word for that in German: verschlimmbessern. Somewhat translatable to "to wrong-improve"
05:15<planetmaker>or "worse-improve"
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05:26<eekee>oh yay, non-purple waypoints. I only just noticed
05:28<eekee>now I wish they didn't have white text. They're obscuring my signs and lookign unnecessarily different to the stations I've have to use for multi-track waypoint things
05:29<Ammler>hehe, belongs to pm's category "verschlimmbessern" ;-)
05:30<@SmatZ>what colour would be better?
05:30<@SmatZ>or just use black too when zoomed out?
05:30<Ammler>like station signs
05:30<eekee>black like the stations would be better for me
05:30<@SmatZ>and signs :)
05:30<eekee>and when zoomed in too, I have lots of waypoints in places
05:31<eekee>signs are white
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05:31<eekee>taking a sceenshot
05:31<planetmaker>they are, if you have background transparency switched on for them.
05:32<planetmaker>then they only have white text.
05:32<planetmaker>(my default setting)
05:32<Ammler>use the canada station set, then you have stations looking like waypoints
05:32<eekee>ack XD
05:32<eekee>oh I could use it.. yeah
05:34<eekee> Transport Co., 17th Mar 2357.png
05:34<eekee>can anyone spot the "Bradnor North" sign?
05:35<@SmatZ>I see
05:35<@SmatZ>it's white
05:35<eekee>spaces. blame firefox's tidy url bar lol
05:35<@SmatZ>but becomes black after zooming
05:35<@SmatZ>that's what I was talking about :)
05:36<eekee>yeah but look at all those white waypoints too. The sign doesn't exxactly stand out
05:36<eekee>and the waypoints are hard to read, which is ok if there were only 1 or 2 but not when they're scattered around like grains of pepper
05:38<eekee>there's probably no 'right' solution though
05:38<eekee>rather than waypoints I'd like a setting to make 1-square-long stations default to non-stop via
05:38<eekee>and some means of making sure forgotten trains don't stop there
05:39<@SmatZ>use non-stop by default
05:40<@SmatZ>it's generally useful
05:40<@SmatZ>there are few exceptions where you don't want to use non-stop
05:40<eekee>I do, but I've got a couple of old saves I still play
05:41<eekee>oh there's the Bradnor West sign I forgot was there lol. This is one of my old games
05:42<@SmatZ>if you enable "TTDP-compatible nonstop" in those savegames, all orders will be converted to non-stop when opened in new OTTD version
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05:42<eekee>ah cheers
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05:43<eekee>wait where is that option? I haven't seen it for ages.
05:43<eekee>I see "new orders are non-stop by default"
05:44<Ammler>that is the new name for
05:44<Ammler>but on the games you have to change the setting, it is called something with TTDP
05:47<@SmatZ>[11:42:04] <SmatZ> if you enable "TTDP-compatible nonstop" in those savegames, all orders will be converted to non-stop when opened in new OTTD version <=== nah
05:47<@SmatZ>only those "non-stop" orders of course :-/
05:48<@SmatZ>TTDP-compatible = "go via" ... normal = "non-stop"
05:48<@SmatZ>so it isn't useful for you at all
05:48<eekee>ok :)
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06:31*petern ponders just reverting r11622
06:31<@petern>i don't know what it was intended to solve, though
06:35<eekee>very odd summary
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06:38<kkb1101>does anybody play openTTD at this resolution? lol
06:39<@petern>what is "lol" about that?
06:39<@petern>apart from the massively wide window border
06:39<kkb1101>can you guess the actual size of that monitor? it's 15"
06:40<@petern>well, no, that information is there not there
06:40<eekee>holy camel
06:41<eekee>excuse me :)
06:42<eekee>I kinda believe in high resolutions because I feel text antialiasing is wasteful and annoyingly complex, but I would have thought 2048x1536 was about right for a 21" 4:3
06:42<dih>i did not know a 15" screen would give you 2048 pixels across natively
06:43<kkb1101>it's my laptop. IAQX10N panel
06:43*eekee wants one of htose now :D
06:44<dih>why on earth would you squeeze that info on to 15"?
06:44<kkb1101>major reason is... for more lines... good for coding...
06:45<dih>eh... no
06:45<dih>because you can hardly see the pixels
06:45<dih>things get a bit too small (as soon as you get a bit older you'll understand that part) ^^
06:45<kkb1101>at first few days, yes it was hard
06:45<dih>then i'd rather buy something bigger with the same res
06:45<dih>+ it is not good for your eyes
06:46<kkb1101>maybe.. I don't know but so far... I think I'm fine :D
06:46<eekee>if everything is scaled up for it it could be beautifly smooth
06:46<dih>i'd still spread the data over a larger area
06:47<kkb1101>yes that works good too. I tried few times.. the edges of texts become so smooth
06:47<dih>i like sitting a bit further away from my screen, rather than using the touch screen with my nose ^^
06:47<eekee>ya, I have a 640x480 screen on a PDA (4") and some people insist that 80-column text is reasonable on it. It's not, at all
06:47<dih>oops - too close again
06:48<eekee>there is that too, OTTD on that thing is very very fiddly :)
06:48<dih>anything would be
06:48<eekee>not anything, stuff designed for it has big buttons
06:49<dih>buttons are usually designed in pixel sizes
06:49<dih>so they'd be smaller too
06:49<dih>and my nose aint that small either
06:49<eekee>no not in Gtk+, not, I imagine, Qt or any other modern design
06:49<dih>hehe - you start using the zoom function
06:49<kkb1101>one more pic
06:50<dih>what a reason to spend 500$ on that thing
06:50<dih>see - i told you, you sit way to close to that thing :-P
06:51<eekee>kkb1101: what's the laptop?
06:51<kkb1101>MSI 1651
06:51<kkb1101>but this comes with 1280x800 originally
06:51<kkb1101>so I replaced.
06:51<kkb1101>bought the panel from ebay
06:52<eekee>I see :)
06:52<dih>pffft ^^
06:52<eekee>I'd do that just for the smoother everything
06:52<@petern>a 22" 1680x1050 is about right for my eyes
06:52<eekee>if I had any money. I'm skint right now :(
06:52<@petern>any higher res and i'd want a larger screen
06:53<eekee>I've got 20" 1680x1050 & don't like coz it's grainy lol
06:53<dih>who needs anything better than 24x80 :-D
06:53<dih>chars that is :-P
06:53<@petern>yeah, sometimes i run a single full screen terminal with large fonts
06:53<@petern>nice & smooth
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06:54<@petern>not 80x24, cos that doesn't work on a wide screen, heh
06:55<dih>you could rotate your screen by 90 degrees
06:55<eekee>oh ya it gets a bit stretched, reminds me of the 40x24 8-bit screens
06:55<eekee>I use a 22-pixel-high font on my PDA at 230dpi. nice & smooth
06:55<@petern>um, yeah
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06:56<kkb1101>that's higher than mine
06:56*petern remembers MODE 2 on a BBC B
06:56<eekee>I remember BBC model Bs but didn't get to use them much
06:56<@petern>20 characters wide, 32 high i think
06:57<eekee>ou ouch! :D
06:57<dih>/o/ \o\
06:57<@petern>or MODE 1, 320x256, 40x32
06:57<@petern>or MODE 0, 640x256, 80x32
06:58<eekee>high colour for the machine? The 8-bit ataris had modes with pixels about 8 times as wide as they were high
06:58<@petern>however, the output was PAL timing, so the dot pitch was pretty bad
06:58<@petern>2 colours in MODE 0, 4 colours in MODE 1 and 16 colours in MODE 2 (from a palette of 8)
06:59<eekee>16 from a pallete of 8 hehe
06:59<@petern>yeah, the upper 8 were flashing opposite colours
06:59<eekee>Atari had a pallete of 256 so nyea hehe
06:59<@petern>opposite within the palette
06:59<eekee>oh the flashing yeah
06:59<@petern>which was nice
06:59<@petern>because colour 9 would be red/cyan
06:59<@petern>and colour 14 would be cyan/red
07:00<eekee>The one time I got to play with that I chose magenta & green XD;
07:00<@petern>the other combos where yellow/blue and black/white
07:00<@petern>you could speed up the flashing to produce various shades of not-quite-grey
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07:01<@petern>25 Hz cycle though, so still flashed a bit
07:01<eekee>ah interestin
07:01<eekee>you've actually got me missing school O.o
07:01<@petern>pal timings, so it was all interlaced
07:02<@petern>the text mode was alright though
07:02<@petern>dedicated teletext chip, so used interlacing properly
07:03<eekee>ah now
07:03<eekee>speaking of interlacing I once had a VGA monitor I had to use interlacing on to get it to display 1024x768
07:04<eekee>Had to put textured backgrounds everywhere to hide the flicker
07:07<eekee>I've had a few monitor adventures. There was a big fixed-resolution monitor, you could get windows drivers for it but linux had no concept of any of that so I had to construct modelines by hand without knowing anything about the monitor
07:09<eekee>I could go on forever about monitors & user interfaces >_>
07:12<eekee>I get on tolerably ok with 'normal' user interfaces but could be better. The menu bar for instance grates, especially when immediately adjacent to a text field
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07:46<@petern>textured backgrounds would make the flicker worse
07:46<@petern>you'd want a solid background
07:48<eekee>actually no. Textured bg makes flicker worse on non-interlaced, but better on interlaced
07:50<@petern>must depend on the texture
07:51<@petern>windows 3.1's marble texture was evil on interlaced
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07:51<@petern>with a solid background there should be no flickering
07:51<@petern>as it's the same colour
07:51<eekee>I used a sand-ish bg
07:52<eekee>well monitors will flicker with enough ambient light, and that particular monitor was rather dim
07:52<eekee>in fact it got dimmer, I got less than a years use out of that one
07:53<@petern>dirty screen ;p
07:53<eekee>rofl :p
07:53<eekee>I used to get old monitors at £14 each, got at least a year out of most of them. One of them was a Viglen, exceptional thing while it lasted
07:55<eekee>very sharp, very bright, but it burnt a vertical strip where it would flash when switched off and solder joints kept breaking around the back of the tube
07:58<@petern>i once managed to get a fixed sync vga monitor to scan in a single line
07:58<@petern>that was an 'oops'
07:59<@petern>it was okay, cos i turned it off straight away
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07:59<eekee>ah XD
08:00<eekee>the fixed sync one I had would get narrower in the vertical if I tried to add more lines. It was 1024 lines @ 50Hz
08:01<eekee>how did you do it?
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08:03<@petern>can't remember
08:03<eekee>not playing with modelines on a linux box by any chance? (or bsd or minix/386 I guess)
08:05<@petern>it was a shit monitor
08:05<eekee>ah ok
08:05<@petern>so it might've been any standard svga mode...
08:05<@petern>12" fixed sync vga
08:05<@petern>supported all the usual modes up to 640x480
08:05<@petern>but that was okay, because the graphics card only did that, too
08:06<eekee>I had one of those but I think it would just roll
08:06<@petern>this is back when 800x600 was special
08:06<@petern>card was an, oak oti-037, an isa beast with 256KB
08:06<+glx>hey a non pnp screen
08:06<@petern>the monitor had a switch on the back to select colour, green, or 'amber'
08:06<@petern>(amber was blue removed, so it still produced red & green colours, heh)
08:07<@petern>has anyone with clue looked at this 'string system upgrade' thread?
08:07<@petern>cos it looks pointless to me
08:08<eekee>I wired up a VGA to an Atari ST & got a green-screen once. 'hi-rez' from the ST
08:08<+glx>petern: where?
08:08<@petern>dev forum
08:12<+glx>weird syntax highlighting in code balise
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08:20<+glx>I don't see how his system is better then our
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08:41<welshdragon> < woo! a bug!
08:43<Forked>what am I looking at? :\
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08:44<@SmatZ>a bit strange way how to say others you have a girlfriend...
08:44<Forked>oh at the bottom there
08:45<+glx>welshdragon: more details may help
08:45<@SmatZ>reminds me of OTTD riddles at
08:45<welshdragon>give me a minute
08:45<@SmatZ>I was staring in them for hours to find the solution too...
08:47<welshdragon>what it is: the RV that is on the disconnected bit of road just goes round in a square
08:47<@petern>what is it supposed to do?
08:47<@petern>it can't get anywhere...
08:47<welshdragon>it cannot find a depot
08:47<@petern>obviously not
08:48<welshdragon>;et me grab a savegame
08:48<@petern>there is no route to the depot from there
08:48<+glx>indeed, it's on a 2 tiles long road
08:48<+glx>with no connections
08:49<@SmatZ>it's really evident that "vehicle is moving in circles" from that static image :-p
08:49<welshdragon>INCOMING SAVE
08:49<eekee>welshdragon: If I didn't know you had a sight impairment I'd be taking the mick big-time ;D
08:51<welshdragon>ok, there's now a savegame
08:53<@petern>it has no orders
08:54<@petern>Passenger Tram Tailer
08:54<welshdragon>try setting orders
08:54<eekee>"cant insert new order, vehicle can't go to that station"
08:54<+glx>someone changed grfs in running game?
08:54<@petern>how do i view the game log?
08:54<@petern>then don't waste our time
08:55<eekee>it's marked as a passenger tram trailer on my machine
08:55<eekee>lemme try laying tram tracks
08:56<eekee>can't lay them on the tile & it ignores them
08:57<welshdragon>pt's stuck
08:57<+glx><@petern> how do i view the game log? <-- type "gamelog" in the console :)
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08:59<@petern>yeah, i figured that one out :)
08:59<@petern>saw a big list of added grfs
08:59<@petern>then i resisted the urge to swear :p
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09:00<eekee>hey if the grf code can add multiple vehicles with the same ID, why does adding grfs still cause that sort of problem?
09:01<@SmatZ>eekee: enginepool is disabled in that save
09:02<@petern>how do you search for a number in irssi's lastlog?
09:02<@petern>/lastlog 10 will just show the last ten lines, instead of searching for 10
09:02<eekee>maybe /lastlog " 10"
09:02*SmatZ doesn't know... maybe /lastlog \10 ?
09:02<eekee>just a guess
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09:03<@petern>quotes and a space does it, ta
09:04<eekee>posibly also /lastlog 5000 10
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09:05*petern ponders a pair of M-AUDIO BX5as
09:05<@petern>although, they're... quite large
09:05<@petern>they don't look large until you see the IEC socket
09:06<eekee>I need a new amp. The old one hisses too much
09:07<eekee>I also need a single tall speaker stand. hrm
09:07<Condac>can someone help me find th wiki page where thay explained how to set the service interval for all my trains
09:08<eekee>oh I know, I can make one out of copper pipe & label it steampunk :}
09:09<eekee>Condac: I never visit the wiki but in-game look in advanced settings under vehicles->servicing
09:09<Condac>eekee there you can only change the default, and that is blank in multiplayer
09:10<Condac>or not black but unediteblee
09:10<@petern>you can only change it per-vehicle
09:10<@petern>annoying, but that's the way it is :/
09:10<Condac>i found some fancy consolle command that changed it for everyone yesterday but now i cant find it again
09:10<@petern>hmm, BX5a + BX10s
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09:11<eekee>you know, there are certain circumstances where being able to change settings for all vehicles wwould be awesome
09:11<@petern>that mght be a little excessive
09:11<eekee>or even better would be if you could select all your vehicles going to a certain station or waypoint
09:13<eekee>select by order "waypoint stanstow" delete "waypoint stanstow" & goto "waypoint stanstow #5"
09:14<eekee>somink like that
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09:17<planetmaker> <-- people have funny understanding of licenses...
09:18*Belugas "enjoys" the return to the office
09:18<Condac>found it (
09:19<planetmaker>hello Belugas
09:19<eekee>hi Belugas
09:21<@Belugas>hello boyz
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09:27<+glx>Condac: it's not in clean openttd
09:27<fjb>Hm, the running costs of the NARS 2.02 diesel engines are far lower than advertized in the buy menu.
09:27<Condac>glx nope i saw that now
09:28<Condac>is any other easy way to change service on all vehicle?
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09:37<planetmaker>Condac, if they're grouped... yes.
09:40<fjb>Change it on one vehicle and it changes all in its group.
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09:41<Condac>then im going to start grouping my veheicles
09:41<@Belugas>and here we go, another stressful day of certification has started
09:42<Condac>can i create a group of every train that goes to one station?
09:42<Condac>or do i haev to drag them?
09:43<fjb>Oh, sorry they have to share orders, only grouping is not enough.
09:45<Condac>fjb: but does it change on everyone when i change like i normaly do then?
09:46<planetmaker>Sorry, fjb is right. Having shared orders makes things easier. But if it is just a "send to depot" it works with groups, too
09:47<fjb>When vehicles share orders then all vehicles which share the same set of orders change the oders at the same time. You just have to change the oders of one of them.
09:47<Condac>i dont want to "go to depot" i want to change service interval from 150% to the default or anything else than over 90% with is max
09:47<Condac>i changed from day to % interval and it is some bug that made all trains on 150%
09:47<fjb>Service intervall? Is that settable by oders? Don't think so.
09:48<Condac>and they never service then...
09:48<eekee>fjb: root problem is that service intervals can't be set in multiplayer, right Condac?
09:49<Condac>eekee not the default intervals
09:49<Condac>but we restareted the server and ran the savegame through a singelplayer game and changed the setting that way
09:50<Condac>but now every one is set at 150%
09:50<eekee>that's not right, players should be able to set their own intervals
09:50<Condac>but new vehicles get 50% but all old will never go for service
09:50<Condac>and yes the service interval should be induvidual in mp
09:50<eekee>I don't see any way to set it per-train so I think the last half-hour's discussion may have been based on a misunderstanding
09:51<Ammler>I guess, "they" are working on company based settings. ;-)
09:52<Ammler>but maybe, I just missunderstood some commits
09:53<Condac>A totaly new question, when grouped some trains that have the same order and layout, how do i change all orders at the same time or is that not posible?
09:54<fjb>Changing orders as I explained above.
09:54<Condac>but it didnt work
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09:57<fjb>Do the vehicle share their orders?
09:57<Condac>by share if you mean the have the same because i cloned them
09:59<eekee>you have to clone with ctrl held down for them to share orders
09:59<fjb>Cloning with contol key pressed. Showes "End of shared orders" at the end of the orders list.
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09:59<@Belugas>it's writeen "Shared Orders" somwehere on the orders window
09:59<Condac>can i get them to share without delete and reclone?
10:00<Condac>i found it
10:00<eekee>ok :)
10:00<Condac>damn there is lots of hidden features i havnt learnd yet. i play it like its the original game still
10:01<eekee>aye, it gets crazy but some of them are really good :)
10:02<Ammler>Condac: if you join public server, I would say around 50% sill play it like they did with TTO/TTD
10:02<Ammler>some don't use 1way singnals ;-)
10:02<Condac>I have learned lots of new stuff from watching openttdcoop servers
10:02<Ammler>(that was TTD feature, iirc)
10:03<@petern>you learn lots of shit from watching openttdcoop too
10:03<Condac>i used one-way in the old game i remember
10:03<Ammler>Condac: public server != openttdcoop server ;-)
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10:03<Condac>Ammler: yea i know
10:04<Ammler>[16:03] <petern> you learn lots of shit from watching openttdcoop too <-- for sure :-D
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10:08<Ammler>#openttdcoop members are ready for every competition, btw. ;-)
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10:21*fjb suggests a "model railway" competition. :-)
10:23<@petern>fjb, you mean your model railways don't have extra track to do load balancers and priorities?
10:23<Ammler>unrealstic :P
10:24<fjb>Extra tracks are ok as long as a (hides from Belugas) real railway wouls have put them there.
10:25<Ammler>well, it is a "timetable" simulator ;-)
10:26<Ammler>there is btw a really nice timetable save around in the tt-forums.
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10:26<@Belugas>can't hide from me!
10:27<@Belugas>but i'm not stressed, just extremely bored, so you're safe
10:27<fjb>Shit, all the coal mines are closing down, even the serviced ones.
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10:27<fjb>Belugas, are you closing my mines down?
10:27<+glx>then they are empty
10:28<@Belugas>fjb, unless it can be done via the chip n pin system i'm currently testing, no
10:28<eekee>you get that with oil in the default set, ne?
10:28<Ammler>that is something else.
10:28*fjb looks for chips and pins in side his computer.
10:28<+glx>it's different, oil wells never increase production
10:29<fjb>Some mines were not empty, but were old and had very low output.
10:31<fjb>Now my steel mill overflows with ore. And the prospected new mines are at the other end of the map.
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10:50<planetmaker><fjb> Now my steel mill overflows with ore. And the prospected new mines are at the other end of the map. <-- good for your profit
10:50<planetmaker>and concerning the ore trains with PBI: for these cases conditional orders were made :)
10:51<planetmaker>if load % > 25 goto depot or something like that
10:51<planetmaker>combined with some timer which releases them again, it might just work
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11:42<fjb>planetmaker: Hm, the timer is the missing part.
11:43<fjb>Or can I put the depot staying time into the timetable?
11:44<planetmaker>fjb, it's feasable by means of pre-signal abuse and another "clock" train with time-tabled schedule
11:44<planetmaker>but trains in a depot will try to leave. You can abuse that the depot has an integrated combo signal
11:45<Condac>what defines if a industry is "serviced well"
11:45<fjb>Anyway, one long distance train holds more cargo than the stockpile limit of the steel mill is. So If have to pile it at a station and a shunting train carries it to the mill.
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11:47<fjb>Condac: Always a vehicle there that takes the produced cargo awayx.
11:47<Condac>is it posible to get above 85%?
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11:47<+glx>do you have a statue in the town?
11:48<Condac>glx: are you asking me?
11:49<Condac>what does the statue do?, never built one
11:49<planetmaker>Condac, add 10% to your rating...
11:49<fjb>But why are the running costs in the purchase window different from the running costs after buying the vehicle? A bug in NARS? Strange...
11:49<planetmaker>fjb, probably not.
11:49<planetmaker>running costs may differ between "running" and "stopped"
11:50<fjb>Ah, I have to look at a train that is not in a depot or station or waiting in front of a signal.
11:51<planetmaker>probably yes
11:51<Condac>if i have a train always waiting at the station and picking upp the transported % never get above ~80%
11:52<planetmaker>Condac, station rating != transported %
11:52<planetmaker>hm... or?
11:52<Condac>aaahaa, each station have a rating, never seenn that
11:52<planetmaker>it's too warm here.
11:52<fjb>planetmaker: Thank you, that is it. Far less running costs while stopped. Why didn't I think about that?
11:52<planetmaker>:) fjb because it isn't used in older newgrfs, I think
11:53<fjb>old newgrafs... :-)
11:54<planetmaker>doesn't make them necessarily bad, though
11:55<fjb>They should be called oldgrfs then. :-P
11:55<planetmaker>never name anything new<something>
11:55<planetmaker>it will be not new most of the time
11:56<fjb>Extension grfs, but that would lead to exgrfs.
11:56<planetmaker>add-on graphics
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11:59<fjb>So now I'm happy with my trains again. Only my station design could be better. But much water and many rough mountains doesn't leave much room.
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12:08<fjb>Pikka made the running costs really dynamic, not only running or not running differs.
12:12<Condac>i have found a strange "bug" or feature or what ever you call it. Collecting cargo slower gives higher rating... :S
12:14<fjb>Collecting slower?
12:15<Aali>you get rating for having a vehicle in the station loading cargo
12:15<Aali>whether you actually pick up any cargo or not is irrelevant
12:19<fjb>Starting to service that coal mine made its production go down and down.
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12:21<Condac>hmm i was mistaking, for some reason when the train was to long at the same time the rating was increased out of nowhere
12:23<Condac>but the rating but still its imposible to get near 100% transported. im running a "sandbox" now with two stations with 3 tracks each all having trains collectin all the time
12:23<fjb>I declare 93% as near 100%. :-)
12:24<Condac>i have 71%
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12:28<Condac>wow, the production is realy increasing on the mine
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12:36<fjb>Only things which are not dying are power stations.
12:42<@Belugas>and banks
12:42<@Belugas>and dying stations
12:44<fjb>Hm, dying banks would be realistic.
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12:52<z-MaTRiX>soneone take a look at multiplayer #MG#1Large World ?
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13:25<fjb>I have to replace 22 trains by hand now. :-(
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13:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: translators * r16362 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
13:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-20 17:30:16
13:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2)
13:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: czech - 2 fixed by Hadez (2)
13:30<CIA-3>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by habell (2)
13:31<CIA-3>OpenTTD: finnish - 2 fixed by jpx_ (2)
13:31<CIA-3>OpenTTD: german - 2 fixed by planetmaker (2)
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13:50<Nite_Owl>Hello all
13:54<planetmaker>hello Nite_Owl
13:54<planetmaker>you're early today :)
13:55<Nite_Owl>Hello eekee & planetmaker
13:55<Nite_Owl>yes I am a bit early - I had to get up early to do a favor for a neighbor
13:56<planetmaker>he :)
13:57<Nite_Owl>she needed a spreadsheet put together for a phone list
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14:01<Nite_Owl>it is rare for me to be up before noon
14:03<planetmaker>he. The good guy with the computer knowledge :)
14:03<@Belugas>but she was in babydoll, so no one can resist
14:04<eekee>oh ah hehe
14:04<Nite_Owl>She is far too old for that
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14:05<+glx>you're the only geek around?
14:06<Nite_Owl>probably not but I do live right next door to her
14:07<Nite_Owl>and I helped her buy the computer 5 years ago.
14:09<Nite_Owl>she is now about 75 years old
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14:21<eekee>ooh I like the OpenGFX toolbar
14:22<eekee>clearer signals too.
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14:30<eekee>I've just realised I could make vehicle models in opensim (don't need to texture them I think), but the catch would photographing them at the right angles
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14:56<eekee>lol there's a simple model for the chimeara: 1/4 of a sphereoid
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15:04<_ln>english only
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15:04<Sacro>por quoi?
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15:23<eekee>He says he's a Klingon, but he writes like a Federation human
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15:27<eekee> (20-minute job)
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15:31<PeterT>@seen ChrisBooth
15:31<@DorpsGek>PeterT: I have not seen ChrisBooth.
15:36<De_Ghosty>are we getting 3d version of openttd?
15:37<planetmaker>PeterT: @seen booth
15:37<eekee>nah I just realised I've got so much experience of building in second life & opensim and I've always wanted to contribute to opengfx or otherwise make grfs & I just thought to put the 2 together
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15:57<eekee>another idea. prim cutting makes noticable divisions though
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16:04<yorick>actually more clients than servers online :D
16:04<SpComb>hard to believe
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16:10<@Belugas>there are people playing the game???
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16:13<eekee>do ttd vehicles have 4 sprites or 8for the different directions?
16:14<yorick>4 for the symetric vehicles
16:14<yorick>and 8 for the others
16:14<eekee>ah ty
16:21<@petern>Belugas at home?
16:21<@petern>oh, 21:21
16:22<@petern>must be wishful thinking :s
16:22<@Belugas>indeed :(
16:22<@Belugas>still wrestling with my certif
16:24<@Belugas>freaking time zones
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16:27<TinoDidriksen>UTC ftw.
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16:29<TinoDidriksen>Pfft...I don't drink. Alcohol tastes awful.
16:30<@Belugas>petern and i are on two different time zones, 5 hours apart
16:31<+glx>6 from here ;)
16:31<Prof_Frink>TinoDidriksen: That's why you put it in beer.
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16:33<TinoDidriksen>I don't like beer either...except for one or two obscure brands that I can't find again. Tasted like it had no alcohol, but was 12ppv stuff.
16:33<@Belugas>true, glx, true. But when it's time to play online, jamming that is, 2:00 am is not as 3:00 am... although in your case it does not really matter ^_^
16:34<@Belugas>TinoDidriksen, alcohol does not taste, it's what
16:34<@Belugas>arounf that taste
16:34<TinoDidriksen>No, alcohol tastes bad. I can taste the same thing from beer, baileys, whiskey, tequila, etc etc...the same foul alcohol taste.
16:35*Belugas has no time nor will to argue.
16:35<eekee>yeah I can taste or at least smell that same element. smell and taste are note entirely seperate sensations
16:35*Belugas likes beer, rhum, wine and is happy aobut it
16:36<@Belugas>and i doi respect your tastes
16:36<@petern>even if it's wrong
16:41<TinoDidriksen>Ah, found it...
16:42*eekee discover's he's a supertaster!
16:44<@petern>84 people
16:44<@petern>conclusive testing then :p
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16:44<fjb>Conditinal ordes are missing a % chance. Could be used to build a load ballancer.
16:45<@petern>missing would imply it is supposed to be there
16:45<@petern>or rather, "are missing" does
16:46<TinoDidriksen>Load balancing rail network? What's next, packet switched cars?
16:46<@Belugas>and it's "orders"
16:46<fjb>Hm, it would be nice to have that feature.
16:46<@petern>balance, random is a terrible scheme for load balancing
16:47<fjb>It is at least a scheme.
16:47<@Belugas>buhwhahahahaa!!!! It's just your imagination!
16:48<fjb>Ok, it is not fine grained.
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16:49<@Belugas>it is... indeed not... it is... laughable
16:49<fjb>Do you have a better idea what to use instead?
16:49<@Belugas>honestly... ho... i might just go there. not sure. how many chances that i do decide to actually load my stuff there??
16:49<eekee>randomness can appear to get stuck near one end of their range for quite some time
16:49<@Belugas>mmh... let's roll the dices
16:50<fjb>Then it is not worse than no load ballancing.
16:50<eekee>honestly though I find presignals at the begining of dual tracks balance fairly well
16:50<eekee>... and have done for some time :)
16:51<fjb>That works when splitting parallel tracks.
16:53<fjb>But it does not work when lines of diffent lenght and complexity reach the same station.
16:54<eekee>ah I try to avoid that, yah
16:55<@Belugas>what is the problem with load balancing?
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16:59<eekee>actually ottd will route trains the long way around if the direct route is very congested
17:00<eekee>I actually put in a lot of waypoints to prevent that because it usually results in gridlock elsewhere on my network
17:01<eekee>or at least, it used to, perhaps before YAPF
17:01<eekee>maybe NTP still does, I don't know
17:02<eekee>or is that NPF
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17:05<@Belugas>in other words, you want a magic solution that will clear out the congestion of your networks
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17:07<eekee>working on the congestion is what's kept me playing a game I began in 2005 lol. It's the big challenge
17:09<@Belugas>indeed, granted, i do understand
17:09<@Belugas>and i'm happy PBS is now around, as it helps a bit
17:12<fjb>PBS is great. Single track lines are usable with more than 2 or 3 trains now.
17:19<@Belugas>GOHOME is great too
17:19<@Belugas>toobad i cannot use it now
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17:31<fjb>Poor Belugas.
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17:41<planetmaker>I didn't find anything definitive in the newgrf specs: how many bits can a single parameter of a newgrf have? 8? 16? 32?
17:43<Ammler>he :-)
17:43<frosch123>should be mentioned around action 7
17:43<frosch123>though maybe action6 is more likely
17:43-!-mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ
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17:44<planetmaker>hm... ok. That solves much. :) thank you frosch123
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17:49<DangerBoBalazs>can i have a question?
17:49<planetmaker>you already had one. Want another?
17:50<@Belugas>"Can I have a question..." Yo do not want answers??
17:50<DangerBoBalazs>in 0.7.0 i have tiny letters
17:50<DangerBoBalazs>how can switch them to be larger?
17:51<@Belugas>if i remeber correctly, on th README.txt, there is stuff about tyhat
17:51<Chruker>if you have a crt screen you can reduce your monitor resolution
17:51<@petern>Belugas, i found a perfect solution
17:51<@petern>get your boss to buy you duplicates of all your kit
17:51<@Belugas>screw the simulatior stuff?
17:51<@Belugas>lol :D
17:51<@petern>so you can ... relax ... at work
17:51<planetmaker>DangerBoBalazs: you have to edit your openttd.cfg file
17:52<@Belugas>and have them in here, isn't it? :D
17:52<planetmaker>there are three font sizes declared. Each assigned a different font. You can change those
17:52<planetmaker>or something like that
17:52<@petern>then, i do the same, though most of mine is software :D
17:52<@Belugas>readme.txt readme.txt readme.txt readme.txt readme.txt
17:53<@Belugas>but petern,your keyboard is a bit bigger then my guit ;)
17:53<@Belugas>either way, i'm tired, i've got to go zhome
17:53<@Belugas>night all
17:53<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
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17:54<Nite_Owl>and I thought it was a donotreadme.txt
17:55<PeterT>who here is an ottd dev
17:56<PeterT>ok, dont answer me
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17:56<planetmaker>uhm. yes
17:57<TinoDidriksen>Impatient young man...
17:57<Nite_Owl>the lack of patience is astounding
17:57<planetmaker>well. I guess he feared the answers
17:57-!-tux_mark_5 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:57<planetmaker>he'd been around a bit
17:57<planetmaker>though strange he is
17:58<Nite_Owl>the answer is: there is no spoon
17:59<fjb>Is there a way to disable one of the ais in a running game?
18:03<planetmaker>stop_ai <num>?
18:03<frosch123>press ctrl-alt-c, switch to the money cheat, reduce the money to -10M, switch back
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18:03<frosch123>s/money cheat/company/ actually
18:04<@SmatZ>frosch123: not possible (for some reason)
18:04<planetmaker>good night folks
18:04<fjb>stop_ai sounds like a solution.
18:04<fjb>Good night planetmaker
18:07<frosch123>oh, the money thingie :(
18:08<Nite_Owl>later planetmaker
18:08<DangerBoBalazs>sorry, i have the problem: how can i switch the letters to the letters like in 0.6.x?
18:09<@SmatZ>DangerBoBalazs: try switching to English
18:10<DangerBoBalazs>the letters do not change
18:10<frosch123>are there lots of black boxes on the title screen?
18:11<DangerBoBalazs>when i use the the other base graphics set
18:12<frosch123>the base graphcis can also change the font
18:12<DangerBoBalazs>yes i noticed
18:13<DangerBoBalazs>but when i installed the game, i noticed, that my favoirite letters have changed
18:15<DangerBoBalazs>maybe this is okay, but when i click on the map i can't read the words in that
18:16<DangerBoBalazs>or on that
18:16<DangerBoBalazs>the letters are unreadable
18:16<frosch123> <- if you are not using the fonts of the spritesets you are using a font specified in the cfg
18:18<DangerBoBalazs>ok, and what should i write to the three places? Thahoma or "Tahoma"? and thats all?
18:25<Chruker>Does the number of terraforming operations matter in respect to town opinion? ex. if leveling an area, will it then hurt equally if I operate on each tile seperately vs. ex. flatten tiles.
18:25<frosch123>terraforming does not hurt, only killing trees
18:27<Chruker>o'rly? nevermind then
18:28<Nite_Owl>but if you terraform a tile with a tree on it does kill the tree
18:29<DangerBoBalazs>ok thanks your help
18:29<DangerBoBalazs>i changed the fonts, thanks
18:33<fjb>My cargodist game just died. :-(
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18:46<PeterT>anyone want to join me on ! ! !SimulationNation World Map?
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18:48*fjb doesn't join servers with ! in front of their name.
18:49*eekee either
18:49<Prof_Frink>openttd should sort servers alphabetically by first alphanumerical character
18:50<Nite_Owl>patience is still a virtue
18:51<eekee>are there any other criterion it could sort by? Such as time since game start?
18:54<fjb>First alphanumerical character would give you aaaaaaaaaaaaaSimulationNation World Map instead.
18:54<eekee>it would that
18:56<Prof_Frink>OK, reverse sort by how stupid the name is ;)
18:58<@SmatZ>there was some "rate lameness of my nick" bot somewhere...
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19:02<eekee>could set up a ... what's that learnign algorhythm used for junk mail? Would have to teach it of course
19:02<Nite_Owl>I need to feed - later all
19:03-!-Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
19:03<eekee>"enjoy your dinner" says the guy who feels like his guts are on fire.::)
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19:10<eekee>I'n not very well, is all
19:11<@SmatZ>I hope you will get well soon :)
19:11<eekee>ty :)
19:11<@SmatZ>your nick ... it reminds me of snakes for some reason
19:11<@SmatZ>maybe because of pokemon?
19:12<eekee>*shrugs* I think I was first called this before pokemon existed, but I could be wrong
19:13<@SmatZ>I hope so :)
19:13<@SmatZ>my brother got N64 just to play some pokemon games there...
19:13<@SmatZ>I wish I got presents like him when I was in his age :-/
19:14<eekee>aw aye
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19:16<@SmatZ> your nick is a bit similiar to this :-) (search for images ;)
19:16<@SmatZ>hmm I was affected more than I wanted :-/
19:16<@SmatZ>(btw it's "snake" reversed... innovative :-p
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19:21<@SmatZ>and eekee is eekee reversed :-p
19:23<eekee>I has a palindromic naem!
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19:40<Xaroth>[eekee]: *shrugs* I think I was first called this before pokemon existed, but I could be wrong << then you must be quite old :P
19:41<eekee>well I guess I'm wrong, if it's either that or admitting I'm old. :}
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19:54<eekee>I think I made my maglevs twise as wide or half as high as they should be
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19:56<eekee>I've been working on 1 high 2 wide 5 long but I'm wondering if it should be 1 high 1 wide 2.5 or 3 long
19:56<eekee>twice, even
19:56<eekee>or even just 2 long
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