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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-05-26

---Logopened Tue May 26 00:00:16 2009
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00:28<z-MaTRiX>SineDeviance, yeah you're right, there should be some feedback about server starting
00:29<SineDeviance>z-MaTRiX, nah the server starts fine
00:29<z-MaTRiX>like a popup window with port blocked by firewall
00:29<SineDeviance>it just doesnt advertise
00:29<SineDeviance>i'm playing on it right now
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00:29<z-MaTRiX>hi kkb ;>
00:29<kkb110>hi :D
00:29<kkb110>what's your nic?
00:30<z-MaTRiX>have seen you as hoax
00:30<kkb110>oh.... I see I remember
00:30<z-MaTRiX>ah made a network for starting out
00:31<z-MaTRiX>trains now continuously going to depot
00:31<z-MaTRiX>for service
00:32<z-MaTRiX>15 of 17 trains having negative income
00:32<kkb110>are you playing now?
00:32<z-MaTRiX>sure look at it
00:33<z-MaTRiX>it even gonna be sold off
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00:36<z-MaTRiX>wonder if it was a server error
00:37<kkb110>you mean that your trains go depot?
00:37<z-MaTRiX>loaded game and empty red alert appeared
00:40<z-MaTRiX>still same problem
00:45<z-MaTRiX>servicing interval set 200 days, last service: aug 24, now oct 31, and train goes to service
00:46<kkb110>it seems you need debugging to see what happens
00:46<kkb110>you might find a bug I think
00:49<z-MaTRiX>have to pause and cheat money, grabbed before bankrupt
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01:22<z-MaTRiX>autoreplace was running from diesel to electric engines on non-electric network
01:23<kkb110>was that the reason?
01:23<z-MaTRiX>though dont know what did the empty red alert appeared
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04:20<dihedral>hehehe - sirkoz telling people how not to name their patch files :-D
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04:23<dihedral>well - he complained that people hat '_sz_' in the patch files name, and that they named it also 'v3.0' or something like that
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04:23<dihedral>there :-)
04:23<dihedral>love it
04:24<@petern>petern@lachesis:~/ottd/hg/trunk.hg$ hg pull ../trunk.hg
04:24<@petern>pulling from ../trunk.hg
04:24<@petern>searching for changes
04:24<@petern>no changes found
04:24<@petern>pulling from itself!
04:25<dihedral>that's the way to keep your copy in sync :-D
04:26<dihedral> <- deja vu
04:33*petern grumbles
04:33<@petern>not happy with railtype branch :(
04:33<Sacro> :D
04:35<Sacro>the mini-in area 404s
04:35<Sacro>doesn't it have to be available until 31/12/2009?
04:35<Sacro>iirc the GPL requires you to continue releasing source for 3 years
04:36<Sacro>I guess it's still in SVN though
04:37<Sacro>what happened to MeusH and gigajum :(
04:46<@petern>they were eaten
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04:46<Noldo>lucky bastards
04:47<@petern>by a grue
04:48<Sacro>I miss everyone :(
04:48<Sacro>I might have to trek across Europe and locate people
04:51<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16426 /trunk/src/articulated_vehicles.cpp: -Fix [FS#2921] (r16390): articulated parts got the wrong image assigned
04:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16427 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: replace a few magic numbers with an existing constant and unduplicate a few lines.
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05:18<Markk>I have a slight problem with OpenTTD on dualscreen, everytime I fast user switch (Windows XP) the windows resets to one-screen mode. Is that something Windows do or OpenTTD+
05:29<dihedral>try it without openttd
05:30<dihedral>and you will find out
05:33<Markk>Good point :)
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07:19<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16428 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: use the less bloated SimpleTinyEnumT instead of TinyEnumT if the stuff provided by TinyEnumT but not SimpleTinyEnumT is not used.
07:25<Noldo>what is it that the simple doesn't provide?
07:28<@petern>min/max value for loops, etc
07:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16429 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
07:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Change: Make the company settings behave like all others settings: the default
07:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: set in the main menu / config file is now really the default for a new company,
07:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: and changing the value in game will no longer change the default for new
07:40<CIA-3>OpenTTD: companies.
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07:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16430 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix: crash when a company is deleted while a dropdown with company names is open
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08:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16431 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix (16429): Company settings can also be changed in multiplayer games
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09:17<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16432 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Feature(tte): use 'scrollto x y' in console to scroll to tile with given coordinates
09:22<@Belugas>good day
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09:22<@petern>hello sir Belugas
09:23<@Belugas>Hello Admiral :)
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09:29<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16433 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Remove most of CmdSetAutoreplace and replace it with calls to CmdChangeCompanySetting
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10:12<SineDeviance>hi all
10:12<SineDeviance>i'm having some issues hosting a dedicated server
10:13<SineDeviance>i'm using 0.7.0 stable. i have the server box in the DMZ on my router so it is not being blocked by a firewall. i have lan_internet set to 0 and server_advertise set to 1. but my dedicated server is still not showing up on the master list
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10:15<Yexo>lan_internet is only a gui setting (search in lan or query the master server for existing servers)
10:16<Yexo>you should try starting openttd with -d net=5 to get some more debug information
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10:16<SineDeviance>Yexo, yes but i want it to show up when people refresh the master server
10:16<SineDeviance>i'll try that thank you!
10:16<+glx>in the DMZ on my router so it is not being blocked by a firewall. <-- the firewall may be on your computer
10:16<SineDeviance>glx, it's not, it's running on windows and windows firewall is disabled
10:17<SineDeviance>there are no other software firewalls present
10:17<SineDeviance>holy crap it's showing up
10:17<SineDeviance>haha it's actually showing here ->
10:18<SineDeviance>could one of you guys boot up the game and confirm with me?
10:19<SineDeviance>the server name is 'SD OTTD Fun Sever'
10:19<Yexo>if it shows up on it's visible in game
10:19<+glx>if it's on this page, we don't need to start openttd :)
10:19<SineDeviance>ok :D
10:19<SineDeviance>well hey i dunno what happened
10:19<SineDeviance>works now though
10:19<SineDeviance>i love it when problems just work themselves out like that
10:19<+glx>there's a little lag between refreshes
10:20<SineDeviance>hmm i see
10:21<+glx>anyway DMZ without firewall is asking for infections :)
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10:21<SineDeviance>glx, yeah but this is a server. im not worried about it
10:21<SineDeviance>i have it all backed up anyways
10:22<+glx>it's even worse as it can be used to propagate infections, and spam
10:22<SineDeviance>if you guys want to play you're welcome to join the server. i just loaded a game i already had in progress
10:22-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
10:22<SineDeviance>glx, yeah but i'm working on a fix for that
10:22<dihedral>SineDeviance, look at the server list ;-)
10:22<@Belugas>too much servers, too few players, too few time
10:22<SineDeviance>i'm gonna try running comodo firewall
10:22<dihedral>count if you like
10:23<dihedral>and dont expect support for setting up a firewall in this channel ;-)
10:23<Yexo>There are 130 clients, 149 IPv4 servers and 3 IPv6 servers.
10:23<dihedral>nice paste sir :-D
10:23<dihedral>@calc 152 / 130
10:23<@DorpsGek>dihedral: 1.16923076923
10:23<SineDeviance><dihedral> and dont expect support for setting up a firewall in this channel ;-) <-- who needs support for setting up a software firewall? ;)
10:24<dihedral>who needs support for setting up an openttd dedicated? :-P
10:24<SineDeviance>good point
10:24<dihedral>and then invites all people in the #openttd channel to join :-D
10:24<SineDeviance>glx, btw i'd rather not run it in DMZ but i have no choice. my router has buggy firmware and port forwarding doesn't work correctly
10:25<dihedral>well then you do have another choice
10:25<dihedral>update firmware is one solution
10:25<dihedral>buying another router is another
10:25<SineDeviance>it's the latest
10:25<dihedral>which make?
10:25<SineDeviance>and i'm not spending another $100 on something i dont absolutely need
10:26<dihedral>what size map are you hosting?
10:26<dihedral>what uplink do you have?
10:26<SineDeviance>it's a belkin wifi-N router. F5D8236-4v1
10:26<+glx>planetmaker: I'll take a look a 2cc french translation
10:26<SineDeviance>dihedral, temperate 512x512 and my upload is 1mbit
10:27<dihedral>hehe - i have seen a few people hosting 2048^2 maps at home, on a crappy link
10:27<SineDeviance>heh i try to keep it sensible
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10:28<SineDeviance>i am also hosting my website here.
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10:29<Pizen>planetmaker, how many translations are needed?
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10:31<frosch123>Pizen: one per language
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10:31<dihedral>SineDeviance, repeat that part about sensible again, please
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10:31<SineDeviance>what for?
10:31<dihedral>it does not make sense
10:31<dihedral>you say you wanna use your uplink sensible, but host openttd + a website at home? :-D
10:31*dihedral claps his hands
10:32<SineDeviance>dihedral, i have plenty of bandwidth
10:32<dihedral>you probably use some kind of p2p file sharing app too
10:32<SineDeviance>i can upload at around 120kb/s
10:32<dihedral>bandwidth is not an issue
10:32<SineDeviance>sure it is
10:32<Pizen>I think they were talking about hosting sensibly
10:32<+glx>only on join
10:32<+glx>for playing it's not important
10:32<Pizen>ie. not hosting 4 million tiles with a terrible upload bandwidth ^^
10:32<dihedral>let 3 people play a game and 2 people browser your website - oh - and then you are downloading something yourself
10:33<dihedral>hosting a website!!
10:33<SineDeviance>dihedral, i'm not downloading anything. and my site is only html. all the downloads and images and such are offsite
10:33<+glx>dihedral: I host a "website" :)
10:33<dihedral>glx: all on a 1mbit link? :-D
10:33<+glx>well it's just a web server
10:34<SineDeviance>so yes my site's overhead is negligible
10:34<dihedral>this is amusing
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10:34<dihedral>you say you dont download anything?
10:34<dihedral>visit the forums for me please :-D
10:35<SineDeviance>and no
10:35<dihedral>oh, and you are on irc
10:35<dihedral>let me guess - you also use skype?
10:35<SineDeviance>just irc and my servers
10:35<dihedral>well, at least that'll help :-P
10:35<SineDeviance>seriously why are you busting my balls man?
10:35<dihedral>i am just having some fun time ;-)
10:36<SineDeviance>im trying to run a business, i have to run a website for work
10:36<dihedral>on a 1mbit link?
10:36<Pizen>web hosts are a dime a dozen though
10:36<SineDeviance>dihedral, 1mbit UP. 7mbit down
10:36<SineDeviance>1mbit is just my upload
10:36<dihedral>i get the up and down sir
10:36<Pizen>(I pay about £1 per month
10:36<SineDeviance>good for you but 1mbit up is plenty
10:36<dihedral>i'd be laughing more if it were 1 mbit down :-D
10:36<SineDeviance>in fact, to host a website 256k is plenty
10:36<dihedral>for a visitor a day, yes
10:36<Pizen>for one client, sure
10:37<SineDeviance>yes one client at a time
10:37<Pizen>try 10 simultaneous downloading a 100kb image
10:37<SineDeviance>there wouldnt be
10:37<Pizen>well then there is no problem =D
10:37<dihedral>+ having 10 people in that openttd game of yours
10:37<dihedral>and include google bots (and all other spiders)
10:37<Pizen>still, if it's a simple single-user website, it should be fine
10:38<Pizen>in the odd chance you're using your upload already, they can wait those 10 seconds for that image
10:38<SineDeviance>Pizen, yeah. just html. there are some images but they are linked to from offsite
10:38<Pizen>bad Sine
10:38<dihedral>unless he has 3 people in queue wanting to join his game
10:38<dihedral>then it'll be more than 10 seconds
10:39<Pizen>they can probably wait 10 minutes. As long as it isn't an ACTUAL website, but more sort of a work-you-need-this-running-thing
10:40<dihedral>SineDeviance, what makes you want to host things at home and not with some other hosting provider?
10:40<dihedral>(just out of curiosity)
10:41<Yexo>dihedral: I quote: "I wanted a better host but I’m a cheap bastard and I refuse to pay for a service I can easily perform on my own."
10:41<SineDeviance>dihedral, it's free, for starters. i prefer to do my own maintenance, so that's number 2. 99.9% uptime is number 3, cause it's almost never down
10:41<SineDeviance>and easy backups, #4
10:41<SineDeviance>Yexo, lol
10:42<dihedral>i thought the US had a huge amount of colocation and vps or root server offers, and not expensive either
10:43<SineDeviance>dihedral, $0 is better than more than $0
10:43<SineDeviance>i dont even pay for my domain name, it's a free
10:45<Pizen>"almost" is not 99.9% though =P
10:45<dihedral>you mind if i smile at something? :-P
10:45<dihedral><SineDeviance> im trying to run a business, i have to run a website for work
10:45*dihedral smiles
10:46<SineDeviance>dihedral, that's right. it's not the website itself, it's eyeOS
10:46<SineDeviance>i use that for work
10:46<dihedral>you do?
10:46<dihedral>uh my
10:46<SineDeviance>i own and operate a computer shop and i do housecalls
10:46<SineDeviance>i use eyeOS to help me keep track of clients and what i did for them and such
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10:46<dihedral>let me guess - eyeOS is in your dmz? :-P
10:46<SineDeviance>dihedral, yeah
10:46<Pizen>isn't eyeOS pretty ... image-intensive?
10:46<SineDeviance>Pizen, not really
10:47<SineDeviance>i disabled the wallpaper
10:47<SineDeviance>that's the big one
10:47<dihedral>it's a big ass ajax application though :-D
10:47<SineDeviance>everything else is just small jpeg icons
10:47<SineDeviance>nah, it's java
10:47<Pizen>dihedral, that's what I thought
10:47<SineDeviance>uh i think. i dont think eyeOS uses ajax
10:47<SineDeviance>just php and java
10:47<dihedral>i looked at it a few times
10:47<Pizen>why would you ...
10:48<dihedral>was curious
10:48<Pizen>oh well, not my area of expertise (java isn't, anyway)
10:48<dihedral>SineDeviance, ?
10:48<SineDeviance>it doesnt use much bandwidth if that's what you're thinking
10:48<Pizen>and apparently, compiling openttd isn't either
10:48<dihedral>it's not java - it's mostly javascript :-D
10:48<SineDeviance>dihedral, yeah, one or the other :D
10:48<SineDeviance>not .info
10:48<Pizen>there's quite a lot of difference
10:49<Pizen>actually there's hardly any similarity
10:49<Pizen>save the name
10:49*Belugas yawns
10:49<SineDeviance>Pizen, i'm aware. i just didnt remember which one exactly
10:50<dihedral>SineDeviance, is (or used to be) a free place to sign up to an eyeOS thingy
10:50<SineDeviance>dihedral, hmm, the demosite? that's odd
10:51<dihedral>and supports https
10:51<SineDeviance>i wonder why they wouldnt keep it at .orhg
10:51<dihedral>i still have my login :-P
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10:52<Pizen>because it isn't commercial and not a network?
10:52<SineDeviance>Pizen, .org? that's just an organization
10:52<Pizen>wait, I read wrong
10:52<Pizen>I thought you asked why they WOULD keep it there, my bad
10:52<SineDeviance>nah it's cool
10:54<Pizen>so ... questions about building from source? (compilation is fine, running isn't)
10:54<dihedral>then somethings not quite as it should be
10:54<Pizen>ie. I want cargodest _and_ the fancy ctrl-click-connect-stations
10:54<Pizen>yeah, I figured =/
10:55<Pizen>it gets far enough to tell me about wrong language files (fixed that), though
10:55<dihedral>well done
10:55<Yexo>ctrl-click-connect-stations? What's that?
10:55<dihedral>i guess he means distant join stations
10:55<Pizen>hold ctrl while placing a station to see a list of possible stations to join with
10:55<Yexo>ah, ok
10:56<Pizen>... yes
10:56<dihedral>Belugas, grrrrr wooof woof
10:57-!-dihedral was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [Snap Snap Snap]
10:57<@Belugas>haaaa... feels good :D
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10:57<Pizen>deary me
10:57*dihedral pats the wale .... carefully
10:57<@Belugas>and it's a DOLPHIN!
10:58<Pizen>I was thinking you meant "welschman"
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10:58<Pizen>since noone would miss the H in whale =D
10:59<Pizen>anyway, problems concerning a locally built openttd - where do I go?
10:59<@Belugas>mmh... locally?
10:59<@Belugas>as in ... your computer?
10:59<Pizen>my computer?
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11:00<Pizen>well, it's not trunk, but the latest revision of cargodest
11:00<Yexo>Can you build unpatches trunk without problems?
11:00<Pizen>I should probably try trunk firs...
11:00<Pizen>you said it
11:00<Pizen>I'ma try tha
11:01<Pizen>trying stable first
11:01<Pizen>also it builds fine
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11:05<Pizen>stable works, I'll dig into this
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11:11<SineDeviance>ok i installed comodo firewall and everything is running good. so that's that
11:12<dihedral>windows systems?
11:13<SineDeviance>dihedral, i know, i should be running linux
11:13<SineDeviance>but meh
11:13<SineDeviance>windows runs it fine so i see no reason to switch yet
11:13<@Belugas>SineDeviance, i agree totally with you
11:13<SineDeviance>Belugas, you'd be the first :D
11:13*Pizen is currently stuck with windows because he forgot his laptop at a friend's place
11:13<dihedral>with or without automatic windows updates? :-P
11:14<SineDeviance>dihedral, haha
11:14<SineDeviance>some of them break things
11:14<SineDeviance>like ... SP3
11:14<@Belugas>SineDeviance, as long as it dos the job you're asking it to do, why not? I hate OS-nazists
11:14<dihedral>well... they download what they want and when they want :-P
11:14<Pizen>well so do some linux updates (I'm looking at you, pacman)
11:14<SineDeviance>dunno whats in there but something breaks stuff in it
11:14<SineDeviance>Belugas, yeah
11:14<SineDeviance>that's my view on it
11:14<SineDeviance>winxp pro makes a fine server actually. i was really surprised
11:15<SineDeviance>when you turn off all the crap you dont need and all the useless services it's pretty light
11:15<@Belugas>all my machines at work and at home are on winxp. Two have linux on it, just for... tasting it. but that's it
11:15<@Belugas>yup, indeed
11:15<Pizen>pretty light?
11:16<Pizen>I still consider it a beast
11:16<SineDeviance>i've got it running with only a 64mb commit charge even with http/mysql and openttd dedicated running
11:16<Pizen>that's not too bad for winXP, actually
11:16<SineDeviance>Pizen, it's better than most linux distros
11:16<@petern>SineDeviance, win2003 makes a much better server...
11:17<SineDeviance>i think the only way you could do better is with gentoo or by running a really really light debian system
11:17<SineDeviance>petern, right but i dont have win2003. i have xp :D
11:17<Pizen>most linux distros also haven't turned off all the crap you don't need and all the useless services
11:17<dihedral>define 'really light debian system'
11:17<SineDeviance>dihedral, headless server
11:17<dihedral>and dont just say 'no x' :-D
11:17<Pizen>arch linux would as well
11:19<Pizen>hmm, stable works, trunk works
11:19<SineDeviance>best thing about running my server on windows, well, it literally takes 5 minutes to install and setup everything thanks to bitnami
11:19<Pizen>something makes me think there's something wrong with the newest cargodest
11:19<Pizen>pacman -S lighttpd php mysql
11:20<dihedral>SineDeviance, headless is how i define 'server'
11:20<dihedral>done that too
11:20<SineDeviance>dihedral, well you might be able to keep it under 64 megs if you ran a really light wm like blackbox or something
11:20<SineDeviance>but i doubt it
11:20<dihedral>just need to use serial connection
11:20<dihedral>eh? NO wm!
11:21<dihedral>why would i want a wm
11:21<dihedral>on a server
11:21<SineDeviance>dihedral, you wouldnt
11:21<SineDeviance>i was talking about linux in general
11:21<SineDeviance>not just servers
11:21<SineDeviance>remember i still have explorer running on mine
11:21<SineDeviance>so that constitutes as a wm
11:21<SineDeviance>just being fair :D
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11:26<fonsinchen>Pizen, is that cargodest or cargodist?
11:27<jonty-comp>my debian vps is using 104MB with irssi, openttd and lighttpd
11:27<jonty-comp>it goes up to about 160 with mysql and lighttpd things though D:
11:27<jonty-comp>irssi seems to be using about 18MB for some reason
11:28<Pizen>what's cargodist?
11:28<dihedral>cargodestination : cargodistribution
11:28<fonsinchen>cargo distribution:
11:29<Pizen>what's the difference?
11:29<dihedral>you get higher rating for distributing families across the entire map
11:29<jonty-comp>e or i
11:29<Pizen>so cargodist is cargodest + balancing?
11:29*Pizen tries
11:30<fonsinchen>Cargodist is a completely different implementation and does indeed balance load across routes.
11:30<fonsinchen>Also it has a symmetric demand function and is extendable.
11:31<Pizen>so cargodist is the future, I presume?
11:31<fonsinchen>Someone said it was "the horse to bet on" ;)
11:32<fonsinchen>so go and place your bet
11:32<Pizen>git, svn, mercurial
11:32<fonsinchen>(I think I should make a new poll in that thread)
11:32<Pizen>why can't we all use the same? >>
11:32<fonsinchen>git is very practical when you have lots of branches and it's very fast.
11:32-!-uberlight [~uberlight@] has joined #openttd
11:32<fonsinchen>This is why I'm using it.
11:33<uberlight>hello everyone
11:33<Pizen>I'd put my money on git as well - this considering I know much more svn than git
11:33<dihedral>mercurial is very much like git
11:34<fonsinchen>Perhaps, but I'm using git for everything else, too.
11:34<fonsinchen>And it has never let me down.
11:35<dihedral>git is fine as long as everyone is on a *nix system
11:35<dihedral>(winnix does not count :-P)
11:36<Pizen>never heard of it
11:36<fonsinchen>There is git for Msys
11:37<uberlight>what's git ?
11:37<Pizen>version control
11:37<fonsinchen>And I don't care. If people don't like to pull from my git repository they can use the patch. It's easy,
11:37<Pizen>also, building from source gives me a command prompt and immense slowness of openttd
11:38*Pizen is not used to visual studio
11:38<TinoDidriksen>Build with optimizations?
11:38<Pizen>I build with whatever's default
11:38<TinoDidriksen>Default MSVC++ build is Debug. You'd want Release.
11:38<Pizen>save the random memory thing
11:38<Pizen>I see
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11:38<Pizen>now, to navigate menus!
11:39<TinoDidriksen>Build -> Configuration Manager
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11:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16434 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 3 dirs): -Cleanup: remove some dead code; primarily stuff that can't be reached like break after returns or break after functions that never return (i.e. NOT_REACHED)
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11:51<@petern>hmm, was NOT_REACHED() changed then?
11:51<@petern>it was originally a null op in release mode
11:52-!-Exl [] has quit [Quit: Bitches.]
11:52<@petern>hmm, guess it was
11:56<Pizen>someone have a unix-to-dos conversion thing handy?
11:56<Pizen>(for text)
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11:58<Yexo>yes, unix2dos (and dos2unix for the other way around)
11:59<Pizen>well that makes sense
11:59<Pizen>patch successful
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12:09<fonsinchen>@seen TrueBrain
12:09<@DorpsGek>fonsinchen: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 32 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> you catched on on that? :)
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12:10<@Belugas>wow... i'm impressed by myself... i resisted the temptation to blast nicfer and his donut world suggestion...
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12:23<fonsinchen>Well done Belugas ... you know, in a realistic setting this wouldn't have happened.
12:24<@Belugas>but since it's nicfer, it's always unrealistic
12:29<Eddi|zuHause><Pizen> since noone would miss the H in whale =D <-- there is no "h" in the german word for whale...
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>in general, the letter combination "wh" does not occur in german
12:31<Pizen>I see
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12:31<Pizen>"English only :D"
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>that does not solve people making mistakes influenced by other languages
12:32<Pizen>also, I got cargodist built and running. about 95% of all passengers are "via unknown station to unknown station" though
12:32<Pizen>right you are
12:32<Pizen>it's flipped in danish, actually
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>in german it's "Wal"
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>not to confuse with "Wahl" [=choice, election]
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12:40<Pizen>noone else had that?
12:48<Pizen>all this trouble for nothing, it seems
12:48<Pizen>(not that it was that much trouble, but still ...)
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13:06<fonsinchen>pizen, you have to wait until the routes are calculated.
13:07-!-helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:09<Pizen>I tried setting the calculation to every 1 day, every 30 days, and stuff inbetween
13:09<Pizen>accuracy between 1, 16, 64 and 255
13:09<Pizen>I'll create one without grfs
13:09<fonsinchen>Ihave the grfs.
13:09<Pizen>all of them?
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13:13<Pizen>well I use lots
13:13<fonsinchen>so post
13:15<Pizen>r16422 + cargodist
13:18<fonsinchen>thanks, i'llhave a look
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13:23<Pizen>no, thank _you_ ^^
13:29<fonsinchen>Pizen, the moving average length is too low. If you set it to 1/1 the capacity is halved every day.
13:29<fonsinchen>Stay with something like 1/64
13:33<fonsinchen>You can increase the average unit or length if you have a very large game with very infrequent service on some links. You can decrease it if you feel that dead links time out too slowly, but then try with 1/48 od 1/32 first. With 1/1 links time out almost instantly.
13:36<z-MaTRiX>autoreplace was running from diesel to electric engines on non-electric network, and trains go in every depot, is it a bug?
13:36-!-z-MaTRiX [] has quit [Quit: rehashing]
13:37<Yexo>imo yes, they should only go to electric depots
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13:39<z-MaTRiX>autoreplace was running from diesel to electric engines on non-electric network, and trains go in every depot, is it a bug?
13:39<Yexo>imo yes, they should only go to electric depots
13:40<+glx>I hope they are not replaced
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13:41<+glx>Yexo: path finding doesn't check replacement rules
13:41<frosch123>fs#1762 btw :)
13:41<Yexo>I was afraid of that
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13:43<Pizen>fonsinchen, thanks, I was wondering why the links disappeared so fast
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13:50<z-MaTRiX>its nice my client was here all day long, and now when į was talking it pings out multiple times
13:52<frosch123>z-MaTRiX: fs#1762 btw :)
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13:59<z-MaTRiX>frosch123, what do you mean by fs#1762 ? :)
14:03<frosch123>you asked, whether something was a bug
14:03<+glx> <-- that's FS#1762
14:04<z-MaTRiX>oh i see :)
14:05<z-MaTRiX>what does `FS' stand for?
14:05<planetmaker>@bug 1762
14:05<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Temporary Offline
14:06<planetmaker>@flyspray 1762
14:06<planetmaker>hm... ok :)
14:06<Yexo>FS is short for flyspray
14:06<Yexo>the bugtracker software
14:14<fonsinchen>why do airplane orders have ONSF_STOP_EVERYWHERE as nonstop type?
14:15<fonsinchen>I mean, where should they stop on their way?
14:15<@Belugas>maybe related to the taxing part?
14:15<@Belugas>dunno, just... saying
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14:17<z-MaTRiX>how about adding UFO-s in airports after 2060 ? :)
14:19<@SmatZ>z-MaTRiX: create a GRF :-p
14:19<z-MaTRiX>hm btw
14:20<fonsinchen>I guess I'll just ignore the nonstop type for ships and aircraft. It's meaningless anyway.
14:20<z-MaTRiX>joining multplayer game with new grf, couldn't the new grf be downloaded?
14:20<@SmatZ>z-MaTRiX: BaNaNaS?
14:21<@Belugas>ChErRies, please
14:22<z-MaTRiX>BaNaNaS ?
14:22<z-MaTRiX>SmatZ ?
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14:27<Yexo>bananas = online content service
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14:29<z-MaTRiX>oh isee
14:29<z-MaTRiX>only server download is supported?
14:29<Zantor>hello z-matrix
14:30<@Belugas>downoad from server, but you can upload to the server too
14:30<@Belugas>givein you are the artist, of course
14:30<z-MaTRiX>was meaning offer newgrf to download not uploaded to openttd servers...
14:31<z-MaTRiX>download like map file on join
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14:48<dh2k3>I'm an Admin on an OTTD server my question is how do I ban someone
14:48-!-Exl [] has joined #openttd
14:48<dh2k3>anybody know?
14:50<@petern>use the 'ban' rcon command
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14:59<dh2k3>tried it says ban <IP | client-id>
15:01<dh2k3>ban <ip | client-id> Ban the client with IP <ip> or id <client-id>.
15:02<Bennythen00b>You need some "'s
15:02<Bennythen00b>What's the name of that character by the way? This one: "
15:02<Yexo>like: rcon "ban ip"
15:04<dh2k3>so do I need quotes?
15:04<Yexo>see ^^
15:04<Bennythen00b>Thanks, by the way.
15:04<dh2k3>so it's rcon password ban "IP | client-id>" ?
15:04<Bennythen00b>Something like that
15:04<dh2k3>so it's rcon password ban "<IP | client-id>" ?
15:05<Bennythen00b>Or just player ID
15:05<Yexo>how hard it is to read? it's: rcon password "ban <ip|clientid>"
15:05<Bennythen00b>rcon password "ban <ip/clientid>"
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15:13<dh2k3>tried doesn't work
15:14<Bennythen00b>Try some other combo then.
15:14<Bennythen00b>rcon *pass* ban "ID or IP"
15:14<Yexo>it really is: rcon pass "ban id"
15:15<Yexo>and "doesn't work" is not an error message
15:15<dh2k3>ERROR: command or variable not found
15:16<Bennythen00b>What did you write?
15:16<dh2k3>there we go
15:16<dh2k3>rcon pass "ban id"
15:17<Yexo>np, I'm still wondering what you tried first?
15:17<Pizen>there needs to be a standardised way of indicating variables in instructions
15:17<Pizen>like "rcon <pass> <banID>"
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15:18<Pizen>or if the quotes are required, "rcon <pass> \"<banID>\""
15:18<Pizen>just to be disambiguous =p
15:19<Yexo>Pizen: in that notiation it would be: rcon <pass> "ban <ip/client-id>"
15:19<Yexo>just like Bennythen00b already wrote 10 minutes ago
15:23<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16435 /trunk/src/command.cpp: -Codechange: don't require the 'user company 0' hack for commands.
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15:36<Amr0d>Ammler: you available?
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15:50<Amr0d>someone here who can help me with a railway problem?
15:50<Amr0d>I have build this:
15:50<Amr0d>and now I am searching for a way that the trains can drive in all directions
15:51<Amr0d>but they can't drive left
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15:54<@Belugas>Amr0d, did you know there is a screenshot facility built righ into OpenTTD?
15:55<Yexo>just press ctrl+s
15:55<fjb>Amr0d: Just make the diagonal lines longer and you can drive left.
15:56<Ammler>pong Amr0d
15:57<Amr0d>the diagonal lines? but then they cross the other rails?
15:57<Yexo> <- there a quite a few junctions there
15:57<Yexo>the openttdcoop wiki lists even bigger ones
15:57<PeterT>which is the best one?
15:58<Yexo>the one that you make yourself up during your game
15:58<PeterT>i like ultimate 3 way
15:58<PeterT>and pbs line merge
16:02<Ammler>PeterT: those are of course from #openttdcoop ;-)
16:02<Amr0d>wooo...they are a bit more complex
16:02<Amr0d>just watched them all
16:02<Amr0d>pretty amazing
16:03<PeterT>i know ammler
16:03<Yexo>Amr0d: you should download some openttdcoop games and look at their junctions
16:03<Amr0d>yea sometimes I have a look at the coop server but its to complicated for me
16:07<KingJ>Would be nice to have a template feature so these nice complex junctions could just be placed ingame
16:08<Yexo>yeah, lets add a big button "play the game and let me watch"
16:08<Amr0d>hmmm...I still can't manage it to get my trains drive left in my junction
16:09<PeterT>i dont understand the coop games
16:09<Amr0d>thats to much for my brain :)
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16:10<Forked>dihedral: Comprende!?
16:11<fjb>I never need that kind of junctions in my games.
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16:15<Yexo>Amr0d: something like this?
16:15<Yexo>it could do with some more space though
16:15<Amr0d>yea something like that
16:16<Amr0d>is there any other way to build it to avoid the middle? there will be alot of traffic
16:17<Hirundo>It is also join-before-split, so it could potentially jam
16:18<Yexo>if there really will be a lot of traffic your right turns won't do
16:18<Yexo>a train on the leftmost track going right blocks all other tracks
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16:42<oskari89>Has the rivers been sometime in trunk?
16:42<oskari89>Or it is going to be?
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16:43<planetmaker>you can build rivers in the scenario editor. For quite some time
16:44<z-MaTRiX>[220806] Yexo yeah, lets add a big button "play the game and let me watch" - hahah sure
16:44<z-MaTRiX>sounds fun
16:44*Belugas wispers
16:44<z-MaTRiX>its like aimbot in UT
16:45<z-MaTRiX>and wallhack
16:45<@Belugas>herrr... norrr...
16:45*Belugas sights
16:45<planetmaker>I know something which comes closer :P
16:46-!-PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:46<z-MaTRiX>actually, it could be done easiily :)
16:46<z-MaTRiX>dont want to give tips
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16:51<oskari89>Planetmaker: How you can build those?
16:52<planetmaker>oskari89: only in the scenario editor. Not in a running game. In the water toolbar.
16:52<planetmaker>next to canals and stuff
16:59<oskari89>Oh, i see :)
16:59-!-FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!]
16:59<oskari89>Nice feature O_o
16:59-!-lewymati [] has quit []
17:01<oskari89>Different water levels, other than 0 m, is realistic :)
17:05-!-tux_mark_5 [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC]
17:06*Belugas runs away from this realistically-contaminated channel, back to home
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17:10<Eddi|zuHause>"realism" is not a reason to introduce a feature. at most it is a side effect of a feature that otherwise enhances gameplay
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17:13<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: but it seems to be the reason to _not_ intorduce it ;-)
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>that is Belugas' propaganda...
17:17<Xaroth>Different water levels, other than 0 m, allows for greater diversity :)
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17:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16436 /trunk/src/command.cpp: -Codechange: always execute 'spectator'/'server' commands as spectator. This to reduce the difference between dedicated and non-dedicated servers and normal clients.
17:25<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16437 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Codechange: remove the hack that for CMD_COMPANY_CTRL the company was changed from spectator to company 0 in the network code.
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17:27<z-MaTRiX>terminate called after throwing an instance of 'AI_VMSuspend'
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17:39<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: related to the commit that said "kill AIs that take too long to start up"?
17:40<Yexo>no, because that was 16425
17:40<Yexo>z-MaTRiX: without more information we're unable to do anything about it
17:41<Yexo>ie we need one of: a simple way to reproduce it. A crash.dmp/crash.log
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17:46<Chruker>Are there any hidden stuff in regards to the AIRail::GetRailStationDirection I keep getting 0 returned despite having a NE_SW station
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>hm... any suggestions for a translation of "es schifft"?
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>(very colloquial way of saying "it rains")
17:49<Yexo>Chruker: GetRailStationDirection should _never_ return 0
17:49<Yexo>I'll take a look
17:50<Chruker>I just hacked my AI to build a NW_SE station and then it returned 1
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17:51<Yexo>NW_SE should return 2
17:51<Yexo>I got it
17:53<Chruker>was it missing that TrackToTrackBits
17:56<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16438 /trunk/src/command.cpp: -Fix (r16436): set 'old_company' after modifying '_current_company'
18:00<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16439 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 3 dirs): -Change: Make the default vehicle servicing settings company-based settings, so in a multiplayer game everyone can change them.
18:03<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16440 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_rail.cpp station_map.h): -Fix [NoAI]: AIRail::GetRailStationDirection returned incorrect information
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18:10<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16441 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: new class SpecializedVehicle used as superclass for all vehicle types
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18:21<z-MaTRiX>Yexo, just downloaded Admiral AI, and started a new game with 2 competitors
18:23<z-MaTRiX>well yes, long time no AI, then crash
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18:24<Yexo>z-MaTRiX: did the AI crash or did OpenTTD crash?
18:24<z-MaTRiX>OpenTTD exited
18:24<Yexo>the first is known to happen sometimes,
18:24<Yexo>are you using windows?
18:25<Yexo>can you reproduce the problem?
18:25<z-MaTRiX>does it every time
18:25<Yexo>on every map?
18:25<Yexo>or only on one map?
18:26<z-MaTRiX>tried random map
18:27<Yexo>still using r16422?
18:27<z-MaTRiX>set AI start to 1 days
18:27<z-MaTRiX>started random map
18:27<z-MaTRiX>and pressed fast forward
18:30<Yexo>can you compile openttd yourself and run it in gdb?
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: i would suggest you add/remove specific AIs from your download directory, to check which one is causing the crash
18:30<z-MaTRiX>only have one
18:30<z-MaTRiX>Yexo, sure, compiled it from src
18:30<Yexo>ok, then recomiple with ./configure --enable-debug=1
18:31<Yexo>then: make run-gdb
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18:36<z-MaTRiX>brb compiling meal too
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18:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16442 /trunk/src/ (16 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use new Vehicle accessors at more places
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19:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r16443 /trunk/ -Fix: running 'make depend' after 'configure' in a fresh checkout failed
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19:07<+glx>Yexo: debug_level=3 is better ;)
19:08<Yexo>ok, but 1 is enough to get a stacktrace in gdb
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19:14<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16444 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: Set all company settings to their default value for a new company instead of zeroing them.
19:24<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16445 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: update old comments (Yexo)
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19:30<Yexo>z-MaTRiX: any progress yet?
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19:36<z-MaTRiX>yep done
19:36<z-MaTRiX>Yexo, (gdb)
19:36<@SmatZ> z-MaTRiX
19:37<Yexo>do you know how gdb works?
19:37<Yexo>type "r" <enter>
19:37<z-MaTRiX>never used it
19:37<CIA-3>OpenTTD: glx * r16446 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp: -Fix (r16378): 'cast to pointer from integer of different size' warning
19:37<Yexo>then reproduce the crash
19:38<Yexo>then (at the gdb prompt again), type "bt full" <enter>
19:38<@SmatZ>z-MaTRiX: type r<enter> to run
19:38<Yexo>then copy the output to and paste the link here
19:38<@SmatZ>ah sorry Yexo, I missed you :)
19:38<Yexo>better twice then not at all :)
19:38<z-MaTRiX>hi SmatZ
19:39<@SmatZ>hello z-MaTRiX :)
19:39<z-MaTRiX>hm ;/
19:39<z-MaTRiX>admiral AI now started construction
19:40<Yexo>a nice heisenbug again :p
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19:48<z-MaTRiX>tried again
19:48<z-MaTRiX>no error
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19:51<Yexo>in that case: enjoy the game without the bug
19:51<z-MaTRiX>ty ;>
19:52<z-MaTRiX>debug solves problems
19:54<+glx>we all hate this kind of bugs
19:54*SmatZ just realised he is writing a test tommorow ... err ... today :-x
19:55<+glx>you should go to bed
19:55<z-MaTRiX>so read a few books then
19:55<@SmatZ>the truth is somewhere between...
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>there is a point where going to bed is more harmful than helpful
19:58<z-MaTRiX>T-013000 until make milk-loaf
19:59<Eddi|zuHause>hm... wolfram alpha does not work well in konqueror...
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20:07<z-MaTRiX>heheh found AI route fail already
20:08<z-MaTRiX>(at lakeside)
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20:27<SineDeviance>i still cant get this dedicated server to advertise
20:27*SineDeviance bangs head against wall until blood spews out
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20:35<@Belugas>[20:30] * SineDeviance bangs head against wall until blood spews out <--- that can take long... I've never seen a wall bleeding :S
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20:44<Eddi|zuHause>we have a saying in germany: "Der Klügere gibt nach" (about: "the smarter one gives in") :p
20:46<CIA-3>OpenTTD: yexo * r16447 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix [FS#2922] (r16444): compiling on x86-64 failed
20:49<fonsinchen>Can we use ONSF_NO_STOP_AT_INTERMEDIATE_STATIONS as default nonstop type for aircraft and ships? It describes better what they actually do and it would be nice for cargodist.
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>there are non-non-stop orders for aircraft?
20:50<@SmatZ>intermediate stations?
20:50<@SmatZ>for aircraft?
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20:51<fonsinchen>the nonstop flag is meaningless for aircraft and ships. It's just getting in the way.
20:52<fonsinchen>At the moment it's set to ONSF_STOP_EVERYWHERE.
20:52<fonsinchen>But only because that's incidentally 0.
20:52<fonsinchen>I propose changing the order so that ONSF_NO_STOP_AT_INTERMEDIATE_STATIONS becomes 0 and modifying some checks accordingly.
20:53<@SmatZ>it would mean savegame bump
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20:53<@SmatZ>for no apparent reason
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like he wants to reduce the amount of special cases
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20:54<@SmatZ>simpler code?
20:54<+glx>how can this flag be a problem for cargodist?
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20:55<Yexo>SmatZ: a savegame bump isn't necesary
20:55<+glx>Yexo: it is if flags order is changed
20:55<fonsinchen>cargodist decides if an order is nondeterministic by looking at the nonstop flag
20:55<fonsinchen>if an order isn't nonstop it's nondeterministic.
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>cargodist, like cargodest, has general problems with non-non-stop orders, because it can stop at stations unknown to the link graph
20:56<Yexo>why? All aircraft/ship orders can be fixed in AfterLoadGame (non-stop shouldn't be changeable for thsoe vehicle types anyway, so they should all be 0 now)
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20:56<+glx>aircraft and ships never stop on stations not in there schedule
20:56<fonsinchen>Cargodist doesn't have problems with those orders. It just lets the vehicle load any cargo when it has a nondeterministic order.
20:56<@SmatZ>Yexo: true, but fonsinchen suggested changing values of flags :)
20:57<Yexo>oh, that
20:57<fonsinchen>glx: that's my point. We can as well express that in the nonstop flag.
20:57<Yexo>that isn't a good idea indeed
20:57<@SmatZ>but you are of course thinking the right way ;)
20:59<fonsinchen>We could also change the constructor of Order to set the nonstop to flag to ONSF_NO_STOP_AT_INTERMEDIATE_STATIONS.
20:59<+glx>fonsinchen: write a patch and submit it :)
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>or you could simply change your check to "has non-stop flag or is aircraft/ship"
21:00<fonsinchen>Eddi: I could also do that, but I consider it a hack.
21:00*SmatZ agrees with Eddi|zuHause
21:00<@SmatZ>fonsinchen: setting a flag that isn't used for that vehicle type isn't a hack?
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>luckily i'm not in the position to decide that :p
21:01<fonsinchen>Basically the flag is implicitly set to something stupid now.
21:01<fonsinchen>I'd like to set it to something meaningfull.
21:01<Yexo>no, the flag is unused
21:01<Yexo>which is different
21:02<+glx>this change should be part of cargodist :)
21:02<+glx>if cargodist use it
21:02<fonsinchen>the whole "type" field is explicitly set to 0 and the flag is checked in several places to be ONSF_STOP_EVERYWHERE for airplanes and ships.
21:03<fonsinchen>like order_cmd.cpp:497, 563 ...
21:03<+glx>but as you need it, you can just write a patch and maybe we will accept it, else it will be a part of cargodist patch
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21:03<+glx>the result will be the same for you
21:03<Yexo>fonsinchen: if you refer to line numbers, please refer to trunk lines
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21:04<Nite_Owl>Hello all
21:05<fonsinchen>oh, sorry. 443 and 509 then
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22:05<SineDeviance>i finally figured out my problem
22:05<SineDeviance>it seems it works when i reset my cable modem and router
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22:13<SineDeviance>yeah it seems to be advertised
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---Logclosed Wed May 27 00:00:18 2009