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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-06-08

---Logopened Mon Jun 08 00:00:14 2009
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04:23<planetmaker>DaleStan: concerning renum problems: e.g. vi is nicely able to write the file in question:
04:24<planetmaker>DaleStan: I'm happy to test give any other things like new binaries a try
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04:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: then try something like
04:27<planetmaker>:) moin. I'll give it a try :)
04:27<@Rubidium>DaleStan: <- makes strip configurable via Makefile.local
04:30<planetmaker>hm... no change in behaviour:
04:30<planetmaker> <-- @ DaleStan
04:32<@Rubidium>how does compiling on your system fail?
04:32<planetmaker>DaleStan: if I run the same makefile on the exact same directory (not a copy) the windows renum creates exactly that file without hesitation.
04:33<planetmaker>"error template with C linkage"
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04:33<planetmaker>in a lot of places. Most related to boost
04:38<planetmaker>Rubidium: that's the result of make clean && make
04:41<planetmaker>it's somewhat a bit generic gcc-OSX issue.
04:41<planetmaker> <-- like that, it's not an unknown problem. But with a difficult solution at least.
04:43<@Rubidium>well, one of your headers is screwed; you just need to find out which one
04:46<@Rubidium>planetmaker: try moving the includes from *before* the boost include to after the boost include in pseudo.cpp
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04:55<planetmaker>hm... didn't really change much to move the boost include to the top
04:58<@Rubidium>planetmaker: can you upload the result of g++ -E pseudo.cpp (add the CFLAGS that the makefile adds to that too)
04:59<planetmaker>with changed or unchanged include order?
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05:09<planetmaker>Rubidium: find the output there:
05:09<planetmaker>it's too big for paste.openttd
05:10<planetmaker>pseudo.preprocess created by g++ -E -g -O1 -idirafter/Users/ingo/Download/boost_1_39_0 -Wall -Wno-uninitialized pseudo.cpp > pseudo.preprocess
05:10<planetmaker>hello dihedral :)
05:15<@Rubidium>could you upload /usr/include/unistd.h
05:17<@Rubidium>looks like it's missing a }
05:19<planetmaker>uploaded to the same location
05:23<@Rubidium>okay, that closes it too... Odd, can't find any extern "C"s that aren't closed
05:23<@Rubidium>although sometimes they are nested
05:24<@Rubidium>try to #define _POSIX_C_SOURCE at the top of pseudo.cpp
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05:28<planetmaker>Rubidium: that adds a few initial errors only:
05:29<planetmaker>no. not at all.
05:29<planetmaker>it kills a lot of them, too
05:29<planetmaker>cutting 600 lines of errors ;)
05:30<@Rubidium>then I got no easy way to fix it except keep messing around till it works which kinda sucks with a 5 minute round trip time esp. because it'd be messing with system headers
05:31<dihedral>planetmaker, you mind me restarting znc?
05:31<planetmaker>go right ahead, dihedral
05:32<dihedral>new version ;-)
05:32<dihedral>you might want to join oftc directly for that time ;-)
05:35<planetmaker>bbl in a bit
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07:31<Fogel>i've just downloaded Extra large maps patch, and i've got question - how to make openttd use it?
07:32<Noldo>have you ever compiled a program?
07:32<Fogel>Linux x86_64, openttd compiled from source by Portage/emerge package manager
07:32<Fogel>Noldo: i compile programs every single day ;>
07:33<Noldo>yes, being the gentoo guy you are, anyway are you familiar with patch?
07:34<Fogel>kind of, i patched program once, but can read manpage, no problrm
07:34<Noldo>how old is that Extra large maps patch?
07:36<Noldo>~500 revisions it seems
07:36<Fogel>t hint it's it: May 19, 2009 10:07 pm
07:37<Fogel>s/t hint/i think/
07:37<Fogel>i suppose applying this patch requires uninstalling portage version ang compiling one manually?
07:38<Noldo>well you don't have to uninstall the packaged version
07:39<Noldo>use svn to get the trunk revision 16358 and apply the patch to that
07:39<Noldo>then compile and hope for the best
07:40<Fogel>svm is great thing
07:40<Noldo>it's nice, but there are some people who seem to like hg or git more
07:43<Noldo>if succesful the binary will be in bin directory and datafile need to copied or linked to bin/data
07:45<Fogel>and you know, compiling things is the most important reason why i use gentoo ;>
07:45<@Rubidium>they all have their uses; svn has sequential numbering that stays the same for each repository, hg and git have a local copy of the repository and allows local branching (without sending stuff back to the main repository), svn on the other hand has 'atomic' commit (with git/hg you commit and then push, which makes it non 'atomic'), finally hg is more user friendly than git and git is a bit more space efficient
07:47<@Rubidium>so it is important to you you compiled X and your window manager yourself?
07:48<Fogel>Rubidium: not manually, with emerge package manager, but yes, they are compiled on my machine
07:48<dihedral>we do know gentoo ....
07:48<dihedral>it's not like it's totally unfamiliar ;-)
07:48<@Rubidium>but that is *important* to you?
07:48<Fogel>window manager manually, but i use dwm, so 1700 lines is not much
07:49<Fogel>yes, it is important
07:49<Noldo>now don't tease him, as gentoo people goes he seems ok
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07:49<dihedral>gentoo install aint what it used to be :-P
07:50<dihedral>a few years back when someone said they installed gentoo you already knew that they knew their system
07:50<dihedral>today? gui - clicky clicky - stage 3, done
07:50<Fogel>dihedral: this system is from stage3, but i commites stage1 twice
07:50<Fogel>i do not use gui
07:51<Fogel>it's shit
07:51<@Rubidium>Noldo: not knowing how to patch makes me wonder why it is imporant he compiled it himself
07:52<Noldo>Rubidium: I guess there is no need to patch with gentoo
07:52<Noldo>Rubidium: though saying running emerge is not the same as knows how to compile
07:53<Fogel>indeed, emerge does everything for user
07:53<@Rubidium>still I'm wondering why it is important to you
07:53<Fogel>but i'm familiar with ./configure && make && make install
07:54<Fogel>well.. dunno how it's going with xorg, but when i tested openoffice-bin vs openoffice from source, the second one was quite faster
07:55<Fogel>and i can use things i want, i don't want some feature i will not use - i just set USE falg for it as -
07:55<dihedral>Fogel, you are familiar with, or you have run it on the command line like that
07:55<dihedral>a few times perhaps
07:55<Fogel>dihedral: i'm familiar with
07:55<Fogel>i even made/edited some makefiles
07:55<dihedral>well, then add a patch -p0 -i <file> && ./configure && make
07:55<dihedral>&& bin/openttd
07:56<Fogel>dihedral: i've already done it ;>
07:56<Fogel>as we are talkong here
07:56<dihedral>well, then happy playing with the patched game
07:58*Rubidium wonders what USE flags Fogel would set to use Allegro instead of SDL as video backend for OpenTTD
08:01<@Rubidium>and why the ebuild claims that without alsa you cannot play the music
08:02<Fogel>i don't think there's any flag for Allegro/SDL
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08:06<@Rubidium>not to mention that the gentoo people handling the openttd package are very stubborn, ignorant and sometimes stupid
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08:07<dihedral>that was very subtly expressed Rubidium :-D
08:12<@Rubidium>like those many months that you couldn't emerge openttd because they hardmasked openttd out because we fixed a (minor) bug, which some CVE-ish group found in our changelog, instead of 'just' updating from 0.6.1 to 0.6.2 (fixing the bug)
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08:13<@Rubidium>no, now it took almost till we released 0.7.0 before they 'released' a newer openttd and then they fancily claimed that the bug wasn't fixed in 0.6.2 but only since 0.6.3
08:13<@Rubidium>and the question is when they start considering 0.7.0 stable
08:14<@Rubidium>although I guess you can complain about almost all distributions in a similar way because they do some things in a stupid way
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08:19<dihedral>Rubidium, lenny does not support OpenTTD 0.7 :-P
08:21<fonsinchen>Uh, "not support"? You can easily compile 0.7 on lenny ...
08:22<+glx>it just doesn't provide it
08:22<fonsinchen>Yes, but that's because of Debian's release cycles
08:22<fonsinchen>Which is a different topic ...
08:23<dihedral>fonsinchen, then please read a few lines up
08:23<dihedral>before you just read one line and start commenting ;-)
08:24<fonsinchen>I have read that, but no one mentioned release cycles yet. I mean "considering stable" is not the same as "including in stable release".
08:25<fonsinchen>One "stable" refers to the program, the other one to the distribution.
08:25<@Rubidium>they (at Debian) are considering 0.7.0 stable enough for the next release
08:25<Ammler>Rubidium: suse might be the only disto also supports openttd testing, there you have your 0.7 branch users ;-)
08:25<+glx>when we will release 0.8 ?
08:26<@Rubidium>glx: after debian froze testing
08:26<fonsinchen>Oh, you'll have to merge cargodist before releasing 0.8 ;)
08:26<+glx>we have to do nothing :)
08:26<dihedral>"have to" ?
08:26<@Rubidium>that depends on whether that's 12-18 months since the last freeze started or since the release
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08:27<fonsinchen>It's somewhere in the roadmap.
08:27<dihedral>and where is the roadmap
08:27<@Rubidium>glx: just jump to 0.9 ;)
08:27<@Rubidium>and roadmaps are there to be changed and not to be followed
08:27<+glx>roadmap is just an indication (and it may change)
08:28<dihedral>and who may edit the wiki?
08:28<Ammler>dihedral: try to edit the roadmap ;-)
08:28<dihedral>i did not say 'edit the roadmap'
08:28<fonsinchen>And no, I don't take that serious. I'm just making fun of it, as it has been in the roadmap for a long time now.
08:28<dihedral>i aksed who may
08:28<@Rubidium>Note: the readiness percentage does not tell how close we are to a new release and features on this roadmap are not per definition going to be in 0.8.0.
08:28<+glx>fonsinchen: cargodist is not in roadmap :)
08:28<dihedral>and even if it were
08:29<dihedral>there is no obligation in any way ;-)
08:29<dihedral>it can easily be (re)moved
08:29<+glx>and IIRC cargodest was already in 0.7 roadmap
08:29<fonsinchen>Yep, I've seen in being moved several times ...
08:29<dihedral>well, then you should already be used to it :-D
08:29<@Rubidium>glx: don't forget 0.6
08:30<+glx>it was in 0.6 too?
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08:31<+glx>ha right :)
08:31<@Rubidium>of the branches on that page only 1 eventually made it
08:33<+glx>anyway we have been forced to lock roadmap pages :)
08:33<dihedral>not a bad thing if you ask me
08:33<dihedral>else you get a bunch of annoying users, and there are quite a few around
08:33<+glx>else every patch writers added their stuff
08:34<dihedral>a shame
08:34<dihedral>one would hope patch writers had some more think-power
08:35<dihedral>but there are some who just dont even swith their thinker on
08:35<+glx>well those who use their brain often get their stuff commited ;)
08:35<@Rubidium>glx: usually not the patch writers themselves, but the people 'following' them
08:36<dihedral>i know someone who even would upload every single grf he linkes to bananas :-)
08:36<+glx>true, but it's bad for patch writers as we don't like being forced to accept stuff
08:36*dihedral glances towards Ammler
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08:36<+glx>the more it's requested, the less it will be looked at
08:36<dihedral>is that not always the case?
08:37<@Rubidium>that's why votes are so useful in FS ;)
08:38<+glx>hmm isn't FS#2970 a duplicate of the old "graphics glitch" task ?
08:38<fonsinchen>Are there any general objections to cargodist? I don't mean things like coding style. More like, is the approach of building link graphs and solving the MCF on them acceptable? Is everything "in the spirit"? Things like that.
08:39<fonsinchen>Or has it been requested too often to be considered? ,)
08:39<+glx>not really, but it's a big patchs, needs time to review properly
08:40<fonsinchen>Yes, I know. I just want to make sure I'm heading in the right direction.
08:40<+glx>and it should not impact performance (requires a lot of testing ;) )
08:40<@Rubidium>and the whole threading stuff might be less than favourable too
08:41<@Rubidium>oh... and there should be interest from a developer ;)
08:41<+glx>yeah that too
08:41<+glx>well celestar may like it :)
08:42<@Rubidium>and on a 128x128 map there's not 'need' for cargo/pax destinations
08:42<fonsinchen>You can always switch it off.
08:42<fonsinchen>The threading is optional, too.
08:43<fonsinchen>It works well without threads, but on large maps it might lag a little. However I don't expect people to play large maps on platforms without threads. They will get different problems first.
08:44<@Rubidium>well, I was more thinking about the threading + MP problems
08:44<fonsinchen>That's not a problem
08:44<fonsinchen>Threads have their own dedicated data and are joined at defined intervals.
08:45<fonsinchen>I thought about MP safety before implementing that and it works quite well (ok, there was a bug which accidentally reset the join time creating nondeterministic behaviour - but that was a bug and it's fixed now).
08:46<@Rubidium>so you're storing 'current' graph and the state of the thread generating the 'next' graph?
08:46<@Rubidium>(in the savegame)
08:48<@Rubidium>nasty; that's quite a bit information
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08:48<fonsinchen>I store the starting states of all currently calculated components and when loaded I start the threads belonging to the components. So at the time they are joined, they all have the same state as in a game that was not loaded but running uninterrupted.
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08:49<fonsinchen>It's not that much. Look at the savegames in the forum.
08:50<fonsinchen>The starting states are easily deduced from the current states of the components at all times. I don't need to keep them in memory for saving.
08:53<fonsinchen>And mind that those are not the complete link graphs but only connected components of the link graph. As each company has their own independent connected components for each cargo this is much less than #stations^2
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08:55<fonsinchen>There may be some funny effects involving oil rigs as central passenger and mail hubs for different companies :) ... I have to test that.
08:56<Aali>you can share any kind of cargo on an oil rig
08:56<Aali>and it's tax-free \o/
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08:59<fonsinchen>So if two companies both connect a large component to an oilrig a significant amount of cargo will try to pass through it in order to get to the other company's stations.
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09:02<+glx>hmm that's something to try in clean trunk
09:03<+glx>using transfer at oilrig
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09:24<Muddy>hi, I was wondering if anyone know if there's custom server-detailscript other than the official one at tried googling and the forums but found only an old project from a few years ago which seems to have been abandoned..
09:26<dihedral>Muddy, openttdlib ;-)
09:26<dihedral>and which project was abandoned ?
09:27<Muddy>not much of a project, but some guy didn't seem to get it done..
09:27<dihedral>well, google for openttdlib
09:27<Muddy>i did, thank you :)
09:28<+glx>faster :)
09:28<Muddy>got it already :)
09:28<dihedral>and there is a thread in the forums :-P
09:29<+glx>there's a link to it on the page :)
09:29<dihedral>i know
09:29<dihedral>i put it there :-D
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09:29<+glx>and indeed openttdlib seems abandonned, last commit was 1 month ago ;)
09:30<dihedral>that is not fair :-P
09:30<dihedral>at least i update it when i notice that it fails to communicate with trunk ;-)
09:30<+glx>I used a ;)
09:30<Muddy>i was more thinking of abandoned in the ways of no activity for the last 2-3 years :)
09:30<dihedral>me too glx
09:31<dihedral>hah - that's not openttdlib :-P
09:31<dihedral>i have no idea what you have found
09:32<Muddy>that one
09:32<Muddy>last post apr 14 2005
09:32<Muddy>but thanks ;)
09:33<dihedral>oh my
09:33<dihedral>never saw that, ever
09:34<@petern>you needn't've bothered, heh
09:34<dihedral>no :-D
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10:01<dihedral>theholyduck_, i never knew there was a
10:02<theholyduck_>dihedral, wut?
10:02<dihedral>it'll suck if you should ever need nickserv to send you a new password for whatever reason
10:02<dihedral>/msg nickserv info theholyduck
10:02<dihedral>you'd never get the password ;)
10:03<dihedral>look at your email address there
10:03<theholyduck_>dihedral, well i wont loose the pw
10:03<theholyduck_>dihedral, i got good memory
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11:42<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r16535 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix (r16146): In one case a too small portion of the screen was marked dirty, when (un-)drawing selections.
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11:44<CIA-3>OpenTTD: frosch * r16536 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix (r16535): W != S
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12:14<frosch123>0.9 % here
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13:22<_ln>finally Finder rewritten in Cocoa
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13:30<@Belugas>find her some milk to go with that cocoa, she'll be happy
13:33<andythenorth>ln_: keynote?
13:35<andythenorth>hmm new macbooks
13:39<Sionide>new safari as well which apparently gets 100/100 on acid3 and renders google maps and other complex javascript instantly...
13:41<CIA-3>OpenTTD: translators * r16537 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt german.txt russian.txt):
13:41<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-08 17:40:35
13:41<CIA-3>OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
13:41<CIA-3>OpenTTD: german - 1 changed by planetmaker (1)
13:41<CIA-3>OpenTTD: russian - 31 fixed, 89 changed by Lone Wolf (120)
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13:57<@Belugas>doing a safari on acid??
13:57<@Belugas>my god... youth these days
13:59<+glx>it's fun to read you Belugas :)
13:59<@Belugas>sure i'm making soooo much sens !
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15:51<@Belugas>turn clock, turn...
15:51<@Belugas>I COMMAND YOU!!
15:54<SmatZ> turning clock
15:55<planetmaker>lol :)
15:59<@Belugas>MEEEH....not linked to reality
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16:57*Belugas is gone in a hurry
16:58<Markk>Byebye :)
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17:51<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:52<Nite_Owl>andythenorth: are you still here?
17:52<Eddi|zuHause><theholyduck_> dihedral, well i wont loose the pw <- i thought that once, too. then quakenet unconditionally changed all users' passwords
17:52<Nite_Owl>Has anyone else had problems with the latest zip file for HEQS
17:53<andythenorth>no reports. What's the issue?
17:53<Nite_Owl>invalid zip file
17:53<Nite_Owl>I downloaded it half a dozen times
17:54<andythenorth>ok, let me try something. might be a couple of minutes
17:54<@Rubidium>zip with lzma content?
17:54<theholyduck_>Eddi|zuHause, well quakenet sucks
17:55<theholyduck_>full of gamer trash
17:55<theholyduck_>and other idiots
17:55<Nite_Owl>Thank you - I will be here
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>well, but that is not the point
17:57<theholyduck_>Eddi|zuHause, if i lose my pw, big deal. most irc networks will let you get a nick wiped
17:57<theholyduck_>also i'm not a big fan of oftc anyway
17:59<andythenorth>Nite_Owl: try the new zip in the thread...
18:01<andythenorth>anyone else get success / failure from that zip?
18:02<Nite_Owl>give me a moment
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18:04<@Rubidium>yay for the apple metadata in the zip :(
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>what's a __MACOSX directory for?
18:07<@Rubidium>so macosx can 'remember' the encoding of the file
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18:07<Chruker>Is it that dumb?
18:08<Xaroth>it's more efficient than constnatly trying to figure out the encoding of the file
18:08<Xaroth>... though annoying as hell for non-mac users
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>besides of that, i'd say it fits more into the "success" category
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18:09<@Rubidium>or it's like thumb.db (it's a binary file after all)
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>i never found out what that file was for...
18:10<@Rubidium>that's for caching those thumbnails of files you can get in Explorer
18:10<KenjiE20>windows thumbnail cache... yeah that ^
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm... finally new Weeds today ;)
18:13<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16538 /trunk/src/gfxinit.cpp: -Fix (r16503): when finding duplicate graphics sets favour the more complete one
18:16<andythenorth>bedtime. Nite_Owl went missing? If anyone finds a problem with HEQS zip stick it in the forum thread, much appreciated ;)
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18:28<Nite_Owl>Sorry for the delay but the power went out
18:29<Nite_Owl>andythenorth: everything with the new zip is good - thank you again
18:29<andythenorth>ok thanks for letting me know about the problem ;)
18:31<Nite_Owl>later andythenorth
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18:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16539 /branches/0.7/ (18 files in 8 dirs):
18:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
18:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: When finding duplicate graphics sets favour the more complete one (r16538)
18:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] Crash that occured when an AI was halted while one or more generators were still in a 'running' state [FS#2942] (r16534)
18:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] Do not copy an object when we just checked that the pointer to it is NULL (r16532)
18:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Fix: Notify small UFOs on deletion of road vehicles, so they can head for somewhere else instead of stumbling over a ghost (r16525)
18:53<CIA-3>OpenTTD: - Update: a few languages.
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18:58<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16540 /tags/0.7.1/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.1
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19:42-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
19:42-!-glx changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.1 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only :D
19:42-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
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19:53<Chruker>wheee new thingy
19:55<Chruker>oops, .exe file didnt get updated
19:56<Chruker>Since it was running :-)
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19:59<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16541 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Merge: changelog etc. changes from 0.7 branch
19:59*Sacro has reported it out of date on ArchLinux already :D
20:03<@Rubidium>you have to do that manually?
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 09 00:00:17 2009