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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-06-09

---Logopened Tue Jun 09 00:00:17 2009
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01:30<keikoz>please, i have a little question: could someone explain me what are the "secondary colors" that can be choosen in the color dialog box for the liveries ? When i change them, nothing seem to happen ...
01:30<keikoz>(if someone's awake ^^ )
01:32<kennobaka>I actually only changed the primary on one game, and never noticed anything weird
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01:37<keikoz>oh it's not a problem. I'm just really curious
01:47<keikoz>oh, i found the anwser: it can only be used with some newgrf
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02:28<@petern>and the secondary colour selector is only available if a newgrf with secondary company colours is loaded
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05:00<Noldo>hi dih
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06:27<Muddy>i'm in a bit of a pickle.. seems like my openttd server disregards the need to have minimum 2 players connected to let the game get unpaused
06:27<Muddy>now it just keeps going and going
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06:30<@Rubidium>what version are you using? And have you set min_active_clients?
06:31<dihedral>and is it an unpatched game?
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06:36<Muddy>just upgraded from 0.7.0 to 0.7.1 to see if that did the trick
06:36<Muddy>and have set min_active_clients a while back, just now when i installed it on another server it seems to disregard it
06:38<Muddy>i only had min_players
06:38<dihedral>you are welcome :-P
06:38<Muddy>since when did that change? *reminds himself to read changelog more frequently*
06:39<dihedral>before 0.7
06:39<Muddy>guess i skipped that version when it changed then.. :P
06:39<Muddy>suddenly the game had gone to year 2346 with noone playing
06:40<dihedral>what did you run before 0.7?
06:41<Muddy>think i did run 0.6.9
06:41<Muddy>had some server-upgrades though, so don't have the old binaries anymore
06:41<dihedral>i never knew there was 0.6.9
06:42<dihedral>i think that has something to do with the fact that 0.6.9 does not exists :-P
06:42<Muddy>0.6.7 then
06:42<Muddy>oh well. 0.6.x then
06:43<dihedral>that is really cute :-)
06:43<dihedral>you actually have no idea :-D
06:43<Muddy>can't remember
06:43<Muddy>oh wait, perhaps i have the old config
06:44<dihedral>0.6.3 was the last stable before 0.7.0
06:44<Muddy>i remember now :)
06:44<Muddy>0.6.1 according to the old openttd.cfg
06:45<Muddy>that might explain a few things ;)
06:45<Muddy>but i thought i upgraded to 0.6.3 too
06:45<Muddy>oh well, that's in the past
06:46<Muddy>btw, loving OpenTTDLib ;)
06:50<Muddy>customizing atm :)
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07:08<dihedral>enjoy :-)
07:08<dihedral>if you need any help you know where to find me ;-)
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07:15<Muddy>that i do :)
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07:22<LA>good afternoon
07:22<LA>planetbaker around?
07:22-!-LA is now known as LordAzamath
07:23<LordAzamath>planetmaker around?
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07:37<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: wth is a "WITH!!! Monday"? :p
07:37<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: you haven't been looking at the forum enough ;)
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>well, i know about the autoreplacement :p
07:38<LordAzamath>whit whit whit
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>so, whit monday is what we call "Pfingstmontag" over here?
07:40<@Rubidium>likely yes
07:41<@Rubidium>(at least, wikipedia says so)
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09:11<dihedral> the nose in that face looks like balls (& more) :-P
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09:13<SmatZ>nasty dihedral :-p
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09:14<dihedral>it's not MY face :-P
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09:14<dihedral>why would anybody not see that? and then use it as an avatar? :-P
09:17<@petern>maybe you're just obsessed
09:19<@petern>which for Christians is known as WITH!!! Monday.
09:19<@petern>stupid filter :p
09:20<@Belugas>"you got to get in to get out"
09:21<@Belugas>so true when talking aobut office...
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09:22<@petern>it worked for gabriel
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09:24<@Belugas>quite well indeed :)
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09:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16542 /trunk/src/depend/depend.cpp: -Fix [FS#2971](r16307): depend failed on architectures with unsigned char
09:38<Cryloud>hi guys i want create missed 32bpp with zoom stages and missed 8bpp modells
09:38<Cryloud>where i can find a actually list which buildings missed in 32bpp and 8bbp too
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09:49<Eddi|zuHause>anyone remind me which platforms have signed/unsigned char?
09:50<@Rubidium>that's kinda undefined
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>it can only be undefined in the standard, as soon as you have an actual compiler, it must be defined
09:52<@Rubidium>well, is 'linux' a platform?
09:53<@Rubidium>is 'ppc' a platform?
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>no, but "gcc on XY-linux" is a platform
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09:54<@Rubidium>so it's basically 'which instances of compilers have unsigned chars' and 'which instances of compilers have signed chars'
09:54<@Rubidium>good luck making a list of that
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10:01<Eddi|zuHause>"youtube, twitter and facebook will merge to form one super-time-wasting website
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>called youtwitface"
10:01<ddfreyne>Hi. Is this the proper channel for gameplay discussion, or is this mostly a developer-oriented channel?
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>no to both, i'm afraid :p
10:01<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, LOL
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10:02<ddfreyne>ah, a "hang around and be as off-topic as possible" channel? :>
10:02<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: you're missing
10:02<@Rubidium>occasionally yes ;)
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yes, but Conan o'Brien probably did not know about that one :p
10:02<planetmaker>ddfreyne, depends :P
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: neither does it have
10:03<planetmaker>It's only one thing not discussed: realizm
10:03<@Rubidium> doesn't seem very alive anymore
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>alright then,
10:04<@Rubidium>don't bring Bjarni on ideas
10:04<Cryloud>learn to spell bad things lol
10:05<TinoDidriksen>Eddi|zuHause, re un/signed...just use C99 types int32_t uint32_t and family to be sure what you're getting.
10:05<ddfreyne>anyway, if someone finds time between and facebook and icanhascheezburger and whatever… could someone explain me why my trains never make profit? :>
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>ddfreyne: because you use transfer orders when you shouldn't
10:06<ddfreyne>it's a rather good reflection of my real-life management skills at the moment
10:07<ddfreyne>Eddi|zuHause: alright, will give the orders article a good read and check what i'm missing
10:07<dihedral>how the fuck should we know what you are missing in your fridge if we have never seen it's contents??
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>hey, i like flying blind
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>more often than not it shows that i actually AM psychic ;)
10:09<Ammler>oh, Cryloud found IRC ;-)
10:09<Cryloud>lol found
10:09<Cryloud>i know there is one :d
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: he was here first
10:10<Cryloud>i was here first day i see this openttd development hrhr
10:10<Cryloud>but not much guys reply to my questions ;o
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10:14<@Rubidium>Cryloud: then don't ask the wrong people the wrong question at the wrong time ;)
10:14<dihedral>and wait longer than 1 minute for an answer :-P
10:14<Cryloud>it was 15 minutes dude ;)
10:14<@Rubidium>and don't expect everyone to know everything
10:14<Cryloud>i know
10:15<Cryloud>that was a joke look at my eyes : ^^
10:16<Cryloud>now i start hear = better modelling
10:16<@Rubidium>and asking a question and leaving within a few minutes is.. uhm.. annoying
10:18<dihedral>well can be amusing too :-D
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>only the first 358 times
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>which means it gets boring after 3 weeks
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10:47<Muddy> <-- OpenTTDLib implemented, needs a bit work, but i'll get to it ;) easy to fix :D
10:47<Muddy>gonna convert it to use mysql as a backend for serverhostnames and ports
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10:59<dragonhorseboy>just wondering about it but is opengfx generally made up of individual author licenses right?
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11:01<Yexo>he? OpenGFX is released under the gpl license
11:02<dragonhorseboy>ah ok
11:06<Sacro>I don't think all of it is GPL
11:06<Sacro>not sure all of the first people agreed to it
11:07<planetmaker>Sacro, they did. They were asked and those who didn't agree got their contributions removed.
11:08<Sacro>planetmaker: ah right
11:08<Sacro>i know i posted a reply early on about that
11:08<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker and yexo thanks :)
11:10<dragonhorseboy>btw if you don't mind me asking, just quite what is 'yexo'? ;)
11:11<dragonhorseboy>heh just a random name I take it?
11:12<dragonhorseboy>fair enough
11:12<Cryloud>any suggestions ?
11:13<dragonhorseboy>hm say I came up with a silly idea of your name... You Ever Xeroxed Orudg? :)
11:13<dragonhorseboy>heh I missed an E there
11:14<dragonhorseboy>cryloud...hmm..a bit weathering of the walls and maybe the upper rim of the smokestacks being smoke dirty but otherwise looks nice
11:14<planetmaker>Cryloud, I wonder what the big brick / concrete plate on top of the ground floor is supposed to be...?
11:15<planetmaker>and where do the stairs lead to and how does one access the ground floor?
11:15<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker..I'll assume the small door to left of stairs? :)
11:15<Cryloud>hmm i dont know
11:15<Cryloud>i can change it lol ^^
11:15<dragonhorseboy>and the stones could be a balacony from a back door access on second floor
11:15<planetmaker>it looks a bit magritte - like to me :P
11:15<dragonhorseboy>(would NEED fences tho)
11:16<Cryloud>fences ? ok no prob
11:16<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy, a balcony with no fence? hahaa. Nice for children and drunken people.
11:16<Cryloud>the stairs = directly wy to upper stages
11:16<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker..see what I said, duh? :P
11:16<Cryloud>and the another is an entry to first etage
11:16<Cryloud>sry my english suxx
11:16<dragonhorseboy>cryloud its ok - at least we can comprehend it :)
11:16<Cryloud>there is no balacon
11:17<dragonhorseboy>cryloud..then what are these stones for?
11:17<Cryloud>was a gimmick i dont now i play a bit with the textures, i can delete it = )
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11:18<planetmaker>Cryloud, it doesn't hurt to have a balcony. But the concrete layer is IMO way too thick
11:18<dragonhorseboy>heh ok
11:18<planetmaker>given the proportions it's about 1.5m or so.
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11:19<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker what think of my suggestion on the smokestacks anyway? (oh and I dunno but maybe 2 or just 1 instead of four would seem better, what you think?)
11:20<planetmaker>one is sufficient.
11:20<Cryloud>ok mom
11:20<planetmaker>or two at most.
11:20<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker yeah
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11:23<Cryloud>i hope its better ^^
11:23<Cryloud>i use translator for u guys kik
11:24<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker but anyhow the reason I asked about opengfx license was from wondering about reusing some sprites in another grf .. but its just a thought yet of course
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11:24<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy, you may - if it's under a GPL license and you credit the contributors of those sprites.
11:25<Sacro>and include the licence and release souce
11:25<dragonhorseboy>release source?
11:25<planetmaker>Sacro, the first: yes. The latter is not required. Only upon request :)
11:25<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy, all the things which you needed in order to compile the newgrf.
11:25<planetmaker>e.g. nfo files and images. at least
11:25<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker..ah..yeah I'll pass on that
11:26<Yexo>planetmaker: but if you don't publish the source, you have to make a written offer for providing the source
11:26<dragonhorseboy>license..I'll add that to the readme file
11:26<planetmaker>Yexo, sure. And sure I'll ask for the source then :)
11:26<dihedral>Yexo, really?
11:26<dragonhorseboy>hey dihedral
11:26<Yexo>hello dihedral
11:26<_ln>dihedral, really
11:26<Yexo>dihedral: serious question?
11:27<dihedral>Cryloud, where is that house supposed to fit? on a 64x64 map?
11:27<Cryloud>i dondt kniow ? u can change the size on the .png ?
11:27<planetmaker>dihedral, it's a one-tile house it seems to me.
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11:27<Cryloud>i dont know it works
11:27<Cryloud>im only a artist = )
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11:28<planetmaker>and it's hopefully possible to scale it down to 64 pixels width :)
11:28<Cryloud>i want integrate it on 32bpp + zoom and 8bpp, when it would missed in the list
11:28<planetmaker>Cryloud, you may want to try it actually :)
11:29<Cryloud>i dont know how i can try it or test it thats my problem ;)
11:30<Cryloud>yeagh its a 1 tile house
11:30<Cryloud>i hope it is really missed i showed here
11:31<Cryloud>was 20 minutes of work ) not much but i dont work for useless buildings
11:31<Cryloud>hmm the grammatic its crap right ? :D
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11:35<Eddi|zuHause>Cryloud: the house looks nice, but the projection is not right
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11:38<Cryloud>lol not again :o
11:38<Cryloud>whats wrong. the angle ?
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>well, you can't send in a picture with the wrong projection...
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes, at least the angles are wrong
11:40<planetmaker>Cryloud, the building would IMO also profit, if some of the windows featured flower pots on the outside.
11:41<Cryloud>any props where i can download ? hmm eddi one moment it must fit look here, i have a screenshot with the right angle and it fits
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>as much as i like flying blind, can i see the settings dialog which shows which projection you use? i know the all the necessary theory, but i can't explain it to you when i don't know what you are able to set up
11:43<Cryloud>i didnt use a specific projection, i rotate the object to the angles
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>it must be a projection... whether you know it or not...
11:44<Cryloud>it is front projection
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>anything showing a 3d object on a flat surface is a projection
11:44<Cryloud>and only i rotate the object with the specific angles
11:45<Cryloud>and render it then
11:45<planetmaker>Cryloud, rotating it is something different than choosing a projection.
11:45<andythenorth>if two pythons are good, are three better?
11:45<planetmaker>a projection is the mathematical method to convert n-dimensional tupels to m-dimensional tupels
11:46<planetmaker>e.g. a 3D coordinate to a 2D coordinate
11:46<Cryloud>hmpf how u know i doesnt fit ? = (
11:47<Noldo>does it have to be linear?
11:47<planetmaker>nether the rotation of the building nor the rendering actually is part of that
11:47<planetmaker>Noldo, a projection does not need to be linear. This one: yes.
11:47<Cryloud>i was asking here and a gu said it is correct now
11:47<Noldo>planetmaker: continuous?
11:47<planetmaker>Noldo, e.g. (x,y,z) -> 0
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>Cryloud: on a close look, it might fit, but i can't tell unless i know exactly what projection is used
11:47<planetmaker>is also a projection. Quite trivial, though
11:48<planetmaker>Noldo, not even that. Who tells you that source and destination are continuous sets?
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11:48<Cryloud>its a front projection i show it to u one moment ...
11:48<planetmaker>could be discrete.
11:48<planetmaker>Like R -> N
11:48<planetmaker>no Q -> N
11:48<planetmaker>works continuously
11:49<planetmaker>at least Q is dense(?)
11:49<planetmaker>in the set of real numbers
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11:50<Eddi|zuHause>dense yes, but not continuous (in the sense that Q has not the cardinality of the continuum)
11:50<planetmaker>well Q is countable, R not, yes.
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11:51<planetmaker>But continuous it is nevertheless.
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>between any two values of Q, there is a value of R between them
11:51<LordAzamath>I can has greet ppl :)
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11:53<planetmaker>Behold folks: Infrastructure sharing patch beta3 has been released and compiled. Thanks for compilation from the compile farm!
11:53<dragonhorseboy>well I'm going for now
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11:54*LordAzamath thanks the compile farm
11:54<_ln>infrastructure sharing.... when will we see it in trunk? it would be about time.
11:55<Yexo>_ln: as always, when it's done
11:55<planetmaker>_ln, not yet. Still needs testing and it's not done yet.
11:55<planetmaker>But you can help it by playing it a lot and testing all the nasty corner cases :)
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>Cryloud: that looks awfully overcomplicated
11:57<Cryloud>XSI is not easy i know
11:57<Cryloud>on the first look
11:58<Cryloud>but in blender u must create a specific angle with ur camera settings
11:58<Cryloud>and thats be 45 and 30 or 26.56
11:58<Cryloud>when i do that with my objects its the same imo
11:58<Cryloud>i mean ;o
11:59<Cryloud>here is a thread i started in the german xsi community = and one of them has show me how i can do it in xsi (this guys use blender)
12:00<@Rubidium>how long does it take before 'they' understand that no camera angle with get 'the right' angles?
12:00<Cryloud>guys -s
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>not before "they" understand that a parallel projection is not a perspective view
12:01<planetmaker>Cryloud, yup. Read what Rubidium says. It's not a matter of the camera position. It's a matter of the projection. The conversion from 3D to 2D.
12:02<@Belugas>[12:01] <Cryloud> but in blender u must create a specific angle with ur camera settings <--- "U" is a letter, not a word. "UR" is an ancien middle-eastern city. Does not fit in your sentence
12:02<@Rubidium>what you need is a projection where a cube (with all edges equally long) shows all vertical edges equally long, instead of the further an edge is away from the camera the smaller it looks
12:02<Cryloud>i have no parallel projection, i can ortographic and perspective
12:03<Cryloud>sry belugas my english isnt perfect i know = )
12:03<Cryloud>i learned it only over the www
12:04<@Belugas>helping you getting it better ;)
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12:05<@Rubidium>Cryloud: you need the isometric projection
12:05<Cryloud>so you want say rubidium, i havent to rotate my object, only my camery, that quite a bit complicated to bring the camera right on
12:05<Cryloud>isometric doestn fit too
12:05<Cryloud>i have posted one isometric projection in the thread and one guy checked the angles = is too wrong
12:05<planetmaker>It comes close, but doesn't do it quite. Yes.
12:06<planetmaker>DaleStan actually mentioned the right name of the required projection.
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12:12<Cryloud>Uses an orthographic projection. All camera rays are parallel, and objects do not change size as they change distance from the camera. This projection is useful for architectural and engineering renderings.
12:12<_ln>could also try pornographic projection
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's actually a really easy mathematical projection you have the basis vectors of your axis x=(1,0,0) (along the back left edge of the tile), y=(0,1,0) (along the back right edge of the tile), and z=(0,0,1) (height of the building. then you have the target vectors of these base vectors in screen coordinates: (1,0,0)->(-2,1), (0,1,0)->(2,1), (0,0,1)->(0,-sqrt(5))
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>from these three vectors, you can construct the transformation matrix
12:13<planetmaker>Cryloud, yes. But the angle of orthogonal ground lines needs to be a special one.
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>i think the game rounds the sqrt(5) to 2, not sure
12:15<Cryloud>omg ^^^
12:15<Cryloud>hard and heavy this projection ...
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>honestly, this is one of the easiest projections of all ;)
12:15<Cryloud>i do a new track for that rofl
12:15<Cryloud>isometric is easier
12:16<Cryloud>tell to xsi user that projection he looks like me then lol
12:16<Cryloud>hmm it is that ? :
12:16<Cryloud>Optical Center Shift (inches)
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>isometric is the same as these, only the 2 change into 2*sqrt(3) and the sqrt(5) changes into 2 (i think)
12:17<Cryloud>Controls the offset from the camera2019s optical center in X and Y.
12:17<planetmaker>Cryloud, no other projection will do, though... And a center offset neither.
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>hm, without the 2*, i believe
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>i.e (1,0,0)->(-sqrt(3),1), (0,1,0)->(sqrt(3),1), (0,0,1)->(0,-2)
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>that's the (30°) isometric projection
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12:21<Eddi|zuHause>no, dimetric is something different
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>dimetric has irregular angles, and a scaling factor of 0.5 on the y axis
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12:22<@petern>dimetric just means two of the angles are the same
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12:22<Cryloud>thats crap, i cant set any angles like that for the camera
12:23<Cryloud>that projection must have a specific name
12:23<planetmaker>dimetric :)
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>petern: no, isometric means all axises(?) have the same scaling factors, dimetric means there are two different scaling factors, and trimetric means three different scaling factors
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>has nothing to do with the angles
12:26<@petern>i'll stick with axonometric then :p
12:27<Cryloud>u said parallel
12:27<planetmaker>axes of a coordinate system must not be parallel.
12:28<planetmaker>@calc atan(0.5)
12:28<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 0.463647609001
12:28<planetmaker>@calc atan(0.5)*180/3.1415
12:28<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 26.5658346714
12:28<Cryloud>oh man is that shitty :d
12:28<Cryloud>thats what i got
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: parallel projection does not mean the axes must be parallel. it means lines that are parallel in the 3d-model are also parallel in the projected model
12:28<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes, I know that :)
12:29<@Rubidium>the beauty of non-extra-zoom graphics is that it's (almost) unnoticable if you're a few degrees off, with those gigantic ones it becomes very noticable
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12:32<@petern>hmm, planetmaker rounded pi incorrectly ;p
12:32<@petern>3.1416, if you go to 4 digits
12:32<planetmaker>hehe :)
12:32<planetmaker>I truncated :)
12:32<@petern>you know that 0.0001 of a degree makes a big difference ;)
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>3.1415926535898... everybody knows that...
12:33<planetmaker>petern, depends upon.... your distance :)
12:33<planetmaker>@calc 0.0001 * 3600
12:33<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 0.36
12:33*Rubidium wonders when people stop rounding pi
12:33<planetmaker>uh... fraction of an arc second
12:33<@petern>@calc atan(0.5)*180/pi
12:33<@DorpsGek>petern: 26.5650511771
12:33<planetmaker>oh, works :)
12:34<@petern>0.0008 out, infact!
12:34<planetmaker>oh goodness!
12:34<blathijs>Rubidium: More interestingly, is when will they stop calculation when not rounding pi? :-)
12:34<Cryloud>masturbate is easier !
12:34<planetmaker>@calc 0.0008 * 3600
12:34<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 2.88
12:34<planetmaker>a whole whopping 3 arc seconds.
12:34<@petern>best solution: hand draw everything at the correct (i.e. original) size
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: if you are calculating astronomical distances, fraction of a parsec off is still quite some distance ;)
12:34<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I'm well aware of that :P
12:35<@petern>Eddi|zuHause, and yet also an acceptable error margin
12:35<Cryloud>wow good work
12:35<frosch123>every good c program needs a "#define PI 3.14" at the top
12:35<Cryloud>i didnt daved my house and have now a failure
12:35<@Rubidium>blathijs: in high school I was always allowed to answer pi/2 instead of 1.5.....
12:35<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, though at a parsec distance, an arc second difference is "only" 1.5e11 m off :)
12:35<@petern>not 3?
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>#define PI 3 /* 1 Kings 7:23 */
12:35<@petern>what is 'daving' a house?
12:36<planetmaker>frosch123, that's very, very ugly and insufficient :)
12:36<frosch123>planetmaker: I was talking about good c programs :)
12:36<Cryloud>wow that piss me off now first error because i changed camera settings byebye building roflmao
12:36<Ammler>make target bundle gone?
12:36<planetmaker>uhm... "good" or good, frosch123 ? :P
12:37<_ln>the fundamental problem with "#define PI 3.14" is that you cannot change the value of pi without recompiling.
12:37<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> planetmaker: I was talking about good c programs :) <- you can say lots of stuff about the members of the empty set
12:38<planetmaker>haha :)
12:38<_ln>a modern application would allow chaning it run-time, perhaps fetching the value from some source online.
12:38<Ammler>he just forgot to :/configure
12:38<planetmaker>lol :P
12:38<@petern>store it in xml!
12:39<planetmaker>_ln, it's no problem to implement a routine to calculate the missing digits :)
12:39<planetmaker>it exists a method to calculate the n-th digit without knowing all previous ones -iirc
12:39<Eddi|zuHause> <digit>3</digit>
12:39<Eddi|zuHause> <decimal>
12:40<Eddi|zuHause> <digit>1</digit>
12:40<Ammler>couldn't make just "reconfigure" in those cases?
12:40<Eddi|zuHause> <digit>4</digit>
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>damn, must be <decimal/>
12:41<_ln>planetmaker: but if the value of changes to e.g. 5.1415, in that case the online update would be useful.
12:41<@petern>pi version 2.1
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12:43<Eddi|zuHause>surely, with the many milennia that humanity calculates with pi, we are at versions way beyond that ;)
12:43<planetmaker>hehe, yes
12:47<Cryloud>im lucky -.-
12:48<Cryloud>xsi has it recovered man man
12:48<Cryloud>so i have found the camera settings
12:48<Cryloud>its 2 dina4 letters long ...
12:48<Cryloud>DIN A4
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12:59<Cryloud>check it pls
12:59<Cryloud>hmm thats wrong
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13:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: translators * r16543 /trunk/src/lang/russian.txt:
13:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-09 17:05:46
13:06<CIA-3>OpenTTD: russian - 6 deleted, 276 changed by Lone Wolf (282)
13:07<Cryloud>so o have now a projection with x = 26,5658346714 and y = 45
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>that picture above is definitely not the right projection
13:13<@petern>it's not orthographic
13:20<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16544 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: use double-linked list for vehicle position caches in order to improve performance (~5% with many vehicles)
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13:21<planetmaker>hehe. I just read the last output line "performance (~5% with many vehicles)" and my guess right then "that must be SmatZ work" was right again :)
13:22<Cryloud>its not 26,.......
13:22<Cryloud>its 30 !
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13:26<planetmaker>Cryloud, certainly not :)
13:26-!-tosse_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:26<planetmaker>just count the pixels.
13:26-!-tosse [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:26<planetmaker>and do the math
13:26<planetmaker>it's really simple actually.
13:26<@petern>tosse's off
13:27<planetmaker>whatever you measure anywhere - there's no way around denying that the tiles' borders have an angle of atan(0.5) with the horizontal line
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13:30<@petern>arcsin(tan(arctangent(0.5))) = 30 degrees
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13:35<Eddi|zuHause>tan(arctan(.)) is somewhat redundant :p
13:36<@petern>most likely
13:36<@petern>just plugging things in in the wikipedia equations
13:37<_ln>wikipedia-based math is somewhat dangerous
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>wikipedia-based anything is dangerous
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>we should petition to unconditionally block access to wikipedia
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>it is proven to contain child porn, after all...
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>why is reading from a DVD slower than writing on it?
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>i have a DVD+RW, which is writable with x4 speed (~5.5MB/s)
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13:40<Eddi|zuHause>when i copy the stuff to the HD, it reads with ~2.1MB/s
13:41<Prof_Frink>Because you need more laser power to write it, which makes it faster.
13:42<SmatZ>when you throw DVD into fire, it will be burned in second
13:42<SmatZ>but nobody ensures it will be readable
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 4700*1024/30/60
13:43<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 2673.77777778
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 4700/30/60
13:44<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 2.61111111111
13:46<FauxFaux>'cos you've written to it so many times it needs to read about 20 times per sector to get plausibly good data back?
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14:20<Chruker>eddi, are you reading it using the burner or a dvd-rom drive?
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14:25<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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14:33<Eddi|zuHause>Chruker: it's a burner, but not the same one that was writing the data
14:33<Chruker>hmm, I've had the same problem when I tried reading dvdr's with my dvd-rom drive. But when read with the burner they read normaly
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14:34<Chruker>iirc, it was something about the laser in the dvd-rom not being able to read the disc good enough
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14:51<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Anyone with station-coding knowledge/experience available to chat for a minute or two?
14:52<Yexo>in general you get more response if you just ask what you want to ask, instead of asking for someone to ask or asking for permission to ask
14:52<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Point taken :)
14:53<Noldo>we are salivating to hear what your stationn-coding problem is
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14:53<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Don't get your hopes
14:53<Chicago_Rail_Authority>When creating a station layout, is it possible to assign 49 unique sprites to a 7x7 station? I'm starting over with trying to learn NFO, and am working with the Wiki, Forum searches, and a ridiculously generic *.pcx that I made with 49 numbered sprites...
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14:54<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Using GRFMaker, I've managed to get things off the ground, but am not seeing a way to get all 49 squares (I see an odd assortment of about 4 or 5 different tiles)
14:54<frosch123>you are limited to 65536 different sprites per station
14:55<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Thanks, frosch!
14:55<frosch123>take a look at callback 14
14:55<frosch123>and station property 09
14:56<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Will do
14:57<frosch123>hmm, actually 65536 is slightly wrong, only around 32000
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14:57<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Not to worry - as long as the answer is "something ridiculously greater than 49" that answered my
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16:05<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16545 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup: tunnels have been returning correct SlopeZ since r1
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>that commit message reads weirdly...
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>i mean compare SmatZ to SlopeZ ;)
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16:08<@petern>it does read weirdly :p
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16:09<@Belugas>so from now on, tunnels will not retunr correct SlopeZ :D
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>i can't really figure out what was actually changed
16:10<@petern>removing a workaround that wasn't needed
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16:20<dragonhorseboy>hm drats..when did anyone see purno?
16:21<Yexo>@seen purno
16:21<@DorpsGek>Yexo: purno was last seen in #openttd 42 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 13 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <Purno> ey
16:21<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy, mail him via forum mail
16:21<dragonhorseboy>oh didn't realize there was a bot in here as well (I was thinking of patchbot :p )
16:22<Nite_Owl>also you might want to ask your PBS question here
16:23<dragonhorseboy>nite_owl..its not even the same pbs so? :P
16:23<Nite_Owl>sorry - my bad
16:23<dragonhorseboy>nite_owl..yeah it can be a bit confusing..two different pbs systems
16:24<oskari89>Different PBS?
16:24<oskari89>Hmm, LR PBS?
16:26<Nite_Owl>no - between OpenTTD & TTDP
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16:33<dragonhorseboy>well if anyone here does know about pbs for the patch (rather than ottd's :p ) .. I'm wondering how long the reserved rail sections can be? (I'm sure it can be more than 2 tiles but..well just wondering what the limit actually was)
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16:39<dragonhorseboy>nite_owl you ever tried to make and manage a busy city rail station? :)
16:40<dragonhorseboy>I used to .. crazy without pbs .. re all trains waiting each turn at the underused junction :)
16:43<@Rubidium>dragonhorseboy: ?
16:43<dragonhorseboy>nite_owl oh I do sometimes still use pbs on these certain mainline crossovers...
16:43<Nite_Owl>either your junction was too big or you did not have enough platforms for the amount of trains or your trains were not spaced out enough
16:43<dragonhorseboy>lets just say the northbount train passes by the southbound trains without any actual signals between the two lines at all :D
16:44<dragonhorseboy>nite_owl.. nah with pbs the junction gets full with almost no trains waiting for long so, go figure with that
16:44<dragonhorseboy>ah 64 tiles .. thats lot more than I thought .. thanks a lot nite_owl :D
16:45<Nite_Owl>thank Rubidium not me
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16:46<dragonhorseboy>hmm 64 .. maybe I could try elborate (right spelling?) crossover&flat junctions into a large station and see how well it works :)
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>two names with same length and same colour... you can get confused ;)
16:47<dragonhorseboy>eddi...sorry I just realized that now..sometimes when the room scrolls by fast I always assume the person I was talking to the most
16:47<planetmaker>I don't see two names with same colour :)
16:47<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker..I only see one single colour in the room .. black ON EVERYONE :D
16:48<Nite_Owl>I can not speak for TTDP PBS as I am not familiar with it
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16:52<DaleStan>dragonhorseboy: There are actually two limits: PBS paths may be at most 64 tiles, of which at most 7 may be junction tiles.
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16:53<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds... limited...
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>but maybe i'm just spoiled by YAPP's awesomeness ;)
16:55<Nite_Owl>I was hoping DaleStan would chime in there
16:57<DaleStan>It probably wouldn't be that hard to raise the 7, but raising it too much could cause stack overflow.
16:57<dragonhorseboy>nah dalestan.. 7 is more than plenty
16:57<@Belugas>as long as it's not a steak over-burned...
16:57<dragonhorseboy>imagine a junction that is 7x7 tiles large .. I mean who would actually do THAT completely unsignalled? :)
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>maybe TTDP's small maps cause a generally more compact building style, so 7 tiles may be enough, i don't want to judge that
17:02<@Belugas>and now...
17:02<@Belugas>good night
17:02<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
17:02<planetmaker>night Belugas
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17:03<@petern>dragonhorseboy, saying "7x7" implies you've not understood the limits
17:04<Eddi|zuHause> <- i think i have paths with more than 7 crossings here
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>i count 11, anyone beat that?
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm, 12 even
17:06<@Rubidium>a crossing is a tile with 2 or more rail pieces, right?
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that was my assumption
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, two non-parallel rail pieces
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17:07<Ammler>hmm, if I have a lag of around 10 secs, when I push Multiplayer to open the server lobby, is that again a fw issue
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm, now i counted one with 15
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>i could make a call-in show out of this, and earn millions...
17:12<Xaroth>Ammler: i have that as well, but only when it tries to re-query the 'last server' entry
17:12<Xaroth>it just hangs for a few seconds, then continue
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17:14<Ammler>Xaroth: in trunk?
17:16<Xaroth>r..whatever ottdc is running
17:17<Xaroth>i have a hunch it's got something to do with querying the server, as before it hangs it has no server info, just the ip, when it's not hanging anymore it has the server details
17:18<dragonhorseboy>hmm yeah I did try a quick station setup (as if it could ever actually support busy large trains .. population is only 716, ha) and it looks possible to make a simple 3-platforms station that only need one enterance and one exit pbs signals for the mainline side
17:18<dragonhorseboy>train only has to clear one tile of track out of platform to make it free for next pbs trains to enter same platform
17:18<dragonhorseboy>I'll have to try make a scenario with a real city to try it out
17:19<dragonhorseboy>(not now tho)
17:19<Ammler>ah, if I have some unreachable servers in my fav list, maybe
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17:20<dragonhorseboy>rubidium want me upload a screenshot? keeping in mind I just threw it together in only a minute so its not as streamlined as I would had liked it
17:26<dragonhorseboy>eddi that is quite some mess of rails there heh .. is that a ET86 (or did I recall the wrong class?) on the short passenger line there? I kinda can tell these apart from other emus because they have the odd locomotive cab smacked in middle between two coaches
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>ET-87 i believe it's called
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17:27<dragonhorseboy>(and I only can guess you have four prussia steam locomotives there.. green boilers gives it away)
17:27<dragonhorseboy>ah yeah
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17:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes. the black ones on the freight trains are of the same class
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>just... black ;)
17:27<dragonhorseboy>eddi did you ever build TEE trainsets? (the turbine powered cream/red yeah)
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>yeah... i have a picture like that... wait
17:28<dragonhorseboy>I always seem to build these so often for some reason :P
17:29<dragonhorseboy>I do keep them short (so usually they rarely venture into the large cities unless its in middle of their run) because I find that otherwise they seem to have difficulity keeping up speed over up&down's associated with bridges and slight grades
17:29<dragonhorseboy>usually 3 to 6 carriages I think it was
17:30<dragonhorseboy>larger or more-frequently-stopping trains almost always get some good decidated locomotives of the BR1xx classes :)
17:31<dragonhorseboy>starting with both single and doubleheaded BR112 up to TEE-painted BR160 hauled sets .. usually 11-20 carriages per train as if that tells you how much work they have cut out for them!
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i can't find a picture of them... i only have a locomotive powered TEE set,%2017.%20Okt%201981.png
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>some electric ones as well
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure i had the turbine powered in this game, but i don't seem to have a picture
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is a V200
17:36<dragonhorseboy>thought so..hard to miss them
17:36<dragonhorseboy>red with gray roof .. and the sides slanting inward at top
17:37<dragonhorseboy>although if you looked for one in real life you can also tell by the Y shaped exhaust ports
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17:38<dragonhorseboy>eddi...oh yeah and somewhere last year (forgot which month exactly) the very last VT-95 (although it wasn't red but anyway) was finally retired from service for good - replaced by road buses somewhat insultingly enough
17:38<dragonhorseboy>'today's railway: europe' had one article on this
17:40<dragonhorseboy>hm brb to eat
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18:10<dragonhorseboy>just need make a few more trains then I'll show you something eddi ;)
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18:24<dragonhorseboy>you still around eddi?
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18:37<dragonhorseboy>bah guess another time
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18:46<Eddi|zuHause>that's a prime example...
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>a) use tab completition for highlighting people
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>b) just say what you want to say, instead of waiting for people to say that they are listening
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>the kids never learn...
18:49*fjb never says that he is is never listening.
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19:12<kkb110>hi, I have a question
19:13<kkb110>does aystar in openttd consider reforming map landscape?
19:13<Yexo>the ai pahtfinder libraries do not consider terraforming at the moment
19:13<kkb110>ok thank you
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19:22<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16546 /trunk/src/misc/hashtable.hpp: -Codechange: use array member instead of allocating in costructor and freeing in desctructor
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19:25<Nite_Owl>Need to feed - later all
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19:31<capleton>i got an idea, kinda.
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19:33<capleton>why not make a function for switching the view, turn it 90 degrees clockwise or something, i know there are functions to remove buildings, trees etc but i think this would be really cool.
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19:33<capleton>there's probably some work to be done codewise though :P
19:33<capleton>too bad im not that good in C, would be nice too help out
19:35<CIA-3>OpenTTD: smatz * r16547 /trunk/src/map.cpp: -Codechange: make CircularTileSearch a tiny bit faster
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>common suggestion. basically impossible to do.
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is not the programming, the problem is the graphics
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>there are no "backside" views of most buildings
19:37<SmatZ>use the "frontside" grphics :)
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>this is not possible for buildings which have rectangular shape
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. the bank (2x1), or the hotel (1x2)
19:38<SmatZ>you have to "swap tiles" too
19:38<SmatZ>but yes, it will be impossible for irregular shapes like rail stations
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>you would at least have to dynamically calculate a vertically flipped view
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>which might make writings appear in reverse
19:41<kkb110>for the bank like 2x1, I think it can be done just by filliping the graphic left-right isn't it?
19:41<capleton>[01:37] <SmatZ> use the "frontside" grphics :)
19:41<capleton>yeah, like that
19:41<capleton>don't switch the graphics, just switch the viewpoint
19:41<capleton>would work :)
19:41<capleton>allthough maybe awkward
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>it would not. i explained some of the critical cases
19:42<capleton>yeah i saw
19:42<capleton>damn, too bad.
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>other examples are the airport buildings
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19:42<capleton>a flipped view would be really cool
19:42<SmatZ>or steel mill, for example
19:42<kkb110>oh I see airports right that's a problem
19:43<capleton>yeah i see your point
19:43<capleton>on a complete other subject, anyone of you a hockeyfan?
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>nobody here is.
19:44<capleton>ah, you're the PR man?
19:44<SmatZ>#openfaceoff ;)
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22:09<kkb110>doesn't anybody here play in !expert goal #2 server?
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22:20<Eddi|zuHause>at this hour? probably not.
22:22<Chicago_Rail_Authority>When coding a station set, "DFLT" (44 46 4C 54) works just fine to add additional options to the normal menu, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to customize a new drop-down title.... Anything other than DFLT adds seems to add a blank drop-down title (while still correctly yielding custom station name choices from this menu)... Anyone still awake who might have some thoughts on this one?
22:26<+glx>IIRC you need to define the text somewhere
22:27<+glx>using an action 4
22:27<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Makes sense... as I'm just trying to use "CSTM" for custom (43 53 54 4D) but haven't really found a spot to define a text string yet
22:28<Chicago_Rail_Authority>hmm... ok, I'll take another look at the wiki -- thanks, glx
22:28*glx goes to sleep now
22:28<+glx>have fun :)
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 10 00:00:30 2009