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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-06-24

---Logopened Wed Jun 24 00:00:08 2009
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02:25<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Is there a max # of sprite layouts that you can have per station id?
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04:07<@petern>dihedral! Community Integrated Version!
04:09<dihedral>that would make some people happy, and cause headache to the maintainers :-P
04:09<dihedral>and only last 2 weeks :-D
04:09<dihedral>and then create bug reports: but copy and paste WAS in OpenTTD once, why is it not anymore?
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06:00*petern is surprised to discover his computers have separate mid driver and tweeters
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06:06<@petern>doesn't have a crossover though, heh
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07:41<@Belugas>rrrrrrr zzzzzzzz
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07:41<@Belugas>hu....? i've got to work? ho... shit.....
07:41<@Belugas>let's go bak to bed, shall we?
07:41<@Belugas>rrrrrrr zzzzzzz
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07:47<@Belugas>ho... right dear... i can indeed sleep a while...
07:47<@Belugas>it's the national holiday, the St-Jean-Baptiste day!
07:47<@Belugas>Bonne St-Jean les Quebecois!!
07:47<@Belugas>let's PARTY!!!!!
07:48<@Belugas>rrrrrr zzzzzzzz
07:48<Noldo>so he is the Kemal Atatürk of Quebec?
07:48<@Rubidium>why haven't you declared all non-holiday work days are St. JFC day?
07:49<@petern>Belugas, :D :D :D
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07:51<@Belugas>Rubidium, my boss would disagree
07:51<@Belugas>and so would my wife
07:51<@Belugas>petern, i THINK something MIGHT happen tonigh (yours, of course)
07:51<@Belugas>now, time to hit the shower
07:51<@Belugas>bye by
07:52<@petern>in about 5 hours...
07:52<@petern>unless i... skive off
07:52<@Belugas>non o.. shower right now, not in 5 hours :S
07:52<@petern>5 hour showe!
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08:31<Yexo> Leanden has something useful to say :0
08:33<Ammler>hehe, alain could use the wiki about last "failed" CIV ;-)
08:39<planetmaker>har har. The last thing in that direction was IMO the nomic-IN. But it failed also...
08:39<planetmaker>Though the concept wasn't entirely bad.
08:41<Yexo>was the the auto-integrated thing?
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08:52<planetmaker>Yexo, yes, that was the auto-integrated thing
08:52<Yexo>ah, that was a nice idea indeed
08:52<Yexo>too bad it died
08:55<@Rubidium>for any patch pack/IN you need at least two or three people who understand the base code and want the patch pack to happen
08:56<Yexo>I think one person can do it, but the key factor here is "people who understand the base code"
08:56<@Rubidium>Yexo: name me a patch pack/IN that survived longer than a few months that was maintained by one person
08:57<Yexo>I wondered whether I should have added "(at least one version of a pp)", clearly yes :)
08:57<Ammler>pms patchpack ;-)
08:57<Yexo>what about mini-in?
08:57<@Rubidium>Yexo: and that was one person in what sense?
08:58<Yexo>I had that idea, dunno wh
08:58<Yexo>but that was before my openttd time
08:58<@Rubidium>MiniIN was 3 persons and once 1 of them stopped it died
08:59<Ammler>wasn't that stopped of request from you?
09:00<Ammler>request might be wrong word...
09:01<@Rubidium>Ammler: no, RichK67 just didn't want to go through all the hassle with the C++ stuff
09:01<@Rubidium>well, and the MiniIN was lagging behind a quite bit
09:02<@Rubidium>basically it ended because RichK67 didn't want to spend time in it anymore
09:02<Noldo>Rubidium: is there reason why you would want INs and patchpacks to fly?
09:03<@Rubidium>Noldo: in what sense? Fly as in become succesful or fly as in: fly away and be never seen again?
09:04<Ammler>were the MiniINs build save compatible with trunk save bumps?
09:05<@Rubidium>Ammler: yes and relatively save compatible with older MiniINs
09:05<Ammler>something, no pack reached again...
09:06<@Rubidium>Ammler: yes, and it isn't that hard to do either
09:07<@Rubidium>MiniIN just had a savegame version 5 or so higher than trunk, which means the last 4 MiniIN savegame versions would be loadable assuming you added the right saveload 'code'
09:07<planetmaker>Ammler, you cannot really call it patchpack... well...
09:07<Ammler>oh, btw. the russian thing seems to be a long live thing.
09:07<@Rubidium>Ammler: I hear very little from it
09:08<Yexo>Ammler: "russion commnunity" <_ not one person either
09:10<Noldo>Rubidium: be succesful
09:11<@Rubidium>"succesful" patch packs/INs show quite well how well tested the patches are that people think are ready
09:11<+glx>Yexo: about miniin, all major trunk changes were not synced by richk67
09:12<@Rubidium>e.g. the 'realistic acceleration' patch in MiniIN did easily desync, yet NO ONE had reported it while allegedly many people played with it
09:12<Ammler>that is why I thought, the "quit" came from you...
09:13<+glx>subsidiary was a hell regarding sync with trunk
09:13<Ammler>miniin was never really playable on MP
09:13<@Rubidium>the desync was actually found when I skimmed the saveload code of said patch and found out that variables were missing
09:13<@Rubidium>Ammler: yet no one reported it
09:14<Ammler>I can rember one game wich worked around an hour
09:14<+glx>but it was well tested and stable ;)
09:14<@Rubidium>which shows that for non-official stuff people generally do not complain
09:14<+glx>and ready for trunk :)
09:14<@Rubidium>and proclaim that stuff is well-tested and stable because of said lack of complaints
09:15<Ammler>but I still know people, playing MiniIN ;-)
09:15<@Rubidium>Ammler: take a look at the revision log of MiniIN, especially near the end
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09:16<Yexo>glx: ah, I didn't know that
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09:28<dihedral>tada :-)
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09:37<dihedral>hehe - community patch pack will drive the community round the bend :-D
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10:37<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Is there an upper limit on the number of sprite layouts that you can have for a single station id?
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11:37<@petern>Chicago_Rail_Authority, you mean a newgrf custom station definition?
11:38<@petern>if so, there is, but it's high; 65535
11:40<@petern>you need to use the sprite layout callback of course, to get past 8 layouts
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12:01<Chicago_Rail_Authority>thanks, peter
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12:06<frosch123>Chicago_Rail_Authority: is your question still up to date?
12:06<Chicago_Rail_Authority>From what I PM'd you? Yea
12:06<Chicago_Rail_Authority>I think my #s are off somewhere...
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13:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r16643 /trunk/src/ (38 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: replace GetStationByTile() by Station::GetByTile()
13:40<dihedral>someone could 'pin' the community patch pack thread :-D
13:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r16644 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt hungarian.txt indonesian.txt):
13:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-24 17:43:08
13:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
13:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed by IPG (1)
13:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 fixed by adjayanto (1)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r16645 /trunk/src/lang/russian.txt:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: russian - 6 changes by Lone_Wolf
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14:24<@petern>you are not Belugas
14:27<dihedral>you are not .... petern?
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14:32<@petern>you are not Belugas either
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14:36<welshdragon>dihedral: i am Sacro
14:40<@petern>/kick welshdragon ban evasion
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14:47<Prof_Frink>welshdragon: I'm spartacus!
14:48<dihedral>i'm special :-D
14:48<@petern>no shit
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15:13<Yexo>hello mzz
15:13<mzz>im trying to run open ttd on htc hermes
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15:14<mzz>and it says that i didnt copy the needed files, but i did
15:14<mzz>do you know what could be wrong?
15:14<Yexo>are the files in the data directory?
15:14<mzz>yes, and these are the ones i was talking about
15:15<mzz>i mean, i am talking about
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15:16<mzz>any ideas?
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15:17<Yexo>no idea what's wrong
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15:18<Yexo>but maybe someone else has an idea
15:18<mzz>thanks anyway
15:19<mzz>maybe its just not supposed to run on htc hermes
15:20<Yexo>I haven't heard before that anyone tested it, but it should run
15:22<mzz>do you know any place on the net where i could look for help?
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15:23<Yexo>here :)
15:23<mzz>what about other places? :)
15:23<Yexo>did you also copy the obg file?
15:23<mzz>no, i didnt
15:23<mzz>what is it?
15:23<Yexo>you should
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15:24<mzz>and whats the full name?
15:24<Yexo>the obg file is a file that contains the md5 sums of all base graphics files
15:24<mzz>how can i get it?
15:24<Yexo>orig_dos.obg / orig_dos_de.obg / orig_win.obg
15:24<Yexo>it's in any binary / source package of openttd
15:27<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r16646 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: rename GetDepotByTile() to Depot::GetByTile()
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15:28<@Rubidium>mzz: what exact version of OpenTTD are you running?
15:29<mzz>PPCTTD v0.6.0 by Spookysoft and eSoft Interactive.
15:29<@Rubidium>that's an ancient version; the obg file is not needed
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15:30<@Rubidium>that version is also not supported by us; you need to ask the people at esoft
15:31<Prof_Frink>mmmm beer.
15:31<mzz>is the a ppcttd version supported by you?
15:32<@Rubidium>if ppc == pocket pc then no
15:33*Yexo remembers not to assume to much about versions
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15:34<mzz>thank you
15:34<mzz>take care
15:46<@Belugas>petern, I am THE Belugas, and i'll summon you to the Organ!!
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15:47<@Belugas>by the way, who, apart petern and i are using ninjam?
15:47<@Belugas>don't be shy...
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15:57<@petern>hurrr hurrr hurrr
15:58*petern plays with his organ
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16:21<Yexo>there are some global varaction 2 variables in openttd that are not listed here: ttp://
16:21<Yexo>is there some other documentation?
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16:22<SmatZ> I am not sure if that's what you are asking for
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16:23<Yexo>there are several global variables for variational action 2's, starting with "00 W current date (counted as days from 1920) "
16:23<Yexo>they are listed on the page I gave, but in the openttd code there are several more that are not listed there
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16:41<Yexo>petern: would ou be so kind to tell me where I can find that documentation?
16:43<@petern>oh, global 80s?
16:43<@petern>there are no global 80s
16:44<@petern>where did i get 80 from?
16:44<Yexo>no, the vars 00, 01, 02, 03, 09, 0A are listed
16:44<Yexo>but openttd also supports 06 (for example)
16:46<@Rubidium>Yexo: probably because the variables are the same as the ones used in Action 7/9
16:47<@Rubidium>so they got 'merged'
16:48<Yexo>aha, thanks
16:48<+glx>yes looks like 80+x action 7/9
16:48<@Rubidium>what a tiny bit of svn praising can do
16:49<Yexo>actually the docs just above GetGlobalVariable tell it too
16:49*Yexo should have read that
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16:51<Yexo>looks like some of these variables can easily cause desyncs, but then that's probably known
16:52<@Rubidium>Yexo: which ones?
16:52<Yexo>0x1B: *value = GB(_display_opt, 0, 6);'
16:53<Yexo>0x0D: *value = _cur_grfconfig->windows_paletted; <- not sure about that one
16:53<@Rubidium>in networking those are set to specific values on loading
16:53<@Rubidium>the grfconfig can't be changed in network games
16:53<Yexo>Rubidium: these vars can be accessed in var action 2 chains, not only during loading
16:54<@Rubidium>although, the display opt might need forcing in MP action 2 chains
16:54<Yexo>every single callback could access the display opt
16:54<@petern>callbacks shouldn't
16:54<@petern>or at least, non-visual ones shouldn't
16:54<@petern>awkward to enforce
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17:01<ZxBiohazardZx>heya all
17:01<ZxBiohazardZx>anyone know if the "drive through depot" patch works with latest revision?
17:01<Yexo>why not test it?
17:02<ZxBiohazardZx>hehe ill test it
17:02<@Rubidium>likely the answer will be no
17:02<ZxBiohazardZx>lemmy find the mingw commands and compile XD
17:02<ZxBiohazardZx>dunno im still compiling, but it looked usefull for my savegame where im trying to do some nice eye-candy stuff in my new networks:)
17:02<Yexo>the latest - 1 revision has a slightly higher chance of working
17:03<ZxBiohazardZx>lastest revision is unstable or what?
17:03<ZxBiohazardZx>or is -1 always better XD
17:03<Yexo>no, but there was a codechange related to depots
17:03<ZxBiohazardZx>ill see;)
17:03<Yexo>it's not like it matters for playing anyway
17:04<ZxBiohazardZx>lame it wont even go to the tortoise merger
17:04<ZxBiohazardZx>its a .diff rather then a .patch, does that matter?
17:05<Yexo>the extension is just a random choice made by the patch author
17:05<ZxBiohazardZx>then why doesnt tortoise merger not do anything with the darn patch
17:05<Yexo>he could as well call it .change
17:05<ZxBiohazardZx>i dont have to put it in a specific folder right?:P
17:05<@Rubidium>or .txt
17:05<Yexo>no idea,maybe it's a mercurial or git patch
17:06<Yexo>get a decent program to apply patches :p
17:07<ZxBiohazardZx>can i apply patch with MINGW?
17:07<Zammler>try patch
17:07<Yexo>just install the program patch
17:07<Yexo>see the sticky in the development section for a howto
17:08<ZxBiohazardZx>1 sec:P i see its patch related, cause it WILL open my chunnel, signals on tunnel and bridges and other patches
17:08<ZxBiohazardZx>so only that one aint working:P
17:08<@Rubidium>TortoiseMerge reminds me of
17:09<ZxBiohazardZx>and when i updated the trunk, it returned with an "conflict"
17:09<Yexo>either fix that conflict, or don't upgrade
17:09<@Rubidium>it's basically doing the same thing; support only a very specific version
17:09<ZxBiohazardZx>i think i fixxed it, by repatching the chunnel but is that "normal" to get a conflict when you update with patched files?
17:11<Yexo>ZxBiohazardZx: what is happening: You have version x of some file, then you make some changes (by applying a patch), the the offical file is updated, now those changes have to be merged to one file again
17:11<Yexo>sometimes that succeeds, and when it can't be done automatically you get a conflict and have to solve it yourself
17:11<ZxBiohazardZx>so my "fix" of doing the patch apply-ing was correct :) woot im starting to get this stuff:)
17:12<ZxBiohazardZx>so any patches you recommand?:P
17:12<@Rubidium>imagine you get a text in Vulcan and a document that tells you replace these Vulcan sentences with these Vulcan sentences. Now the Vulcans release a new updated version of the text, you again try to apply the changes but one of the places where you need to make changes had changed. How would you solve that (assuming you don't understand Vulcan)?
17:13<ZxBiohazardZx>so my fix aint right? XD
17:13<ZxBiohazardZx>cause i had this working revision, with 3 patches:) and now i hope they still work :)
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17:13<Yexo>just try to see whether it works
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17:14<Yexo>but 1. Don't report bugs for modified versions and 2. Most patch authors won't like bug reports from versions with more then 1 patch either
17:15<Zammler>hehe, another PatchPack
17:15<ZxBiohazardZx>im not reporting bugs, its just for my screenshot thread (tayvan transport) and personal interest:P
17:16<ZxBiohazardZx>but i was wondering what you guys recommand besides latest revision and trying to get the patches i used working again:)
17:16<Yexo>no pstches at all, that way you can keep playing your game with newer versions :)
17:17<@Rubidium>spending a few (hundred) hours learning C, C++ and your way around OpenTTD's code
17:17<ZxBiohazardZx>but in my mountainious area i need the lovely chunnel and signals on bridges&tunnels patches:P
17:17<ZxBiohazardZx>and i think those 2 work
17:17<ZxBiohazardZx>so i was trying to see if DriveThroughDepots could work
17:18<ZxBiohazardZx>but i cant get it applied
17:18<Yexo>it's a git patch, tortoisesvn doesn't accept those
17:19<Yexo>as I said before, get a decent patch program
17:20<@Rubidium>Tortoise's patch support is like MS Office's OpenDocument support; it only likes it's own stuff and not the stuff created by other tools
17:21<ZxBiohazardZx>can i do the patching with MINGW as well?
17:21<ZxBiohazardZx>or is that compiling only?
17:21<Yexo>there is a patch.exe for mingw
17:21<@petern>Rubidium, and it's mainly the fault of the document specification?
17:22<ZxBiohazardZx>its a .diff file, can i just open that in mingw or do i have to download something else first?
17:22<@Rubidium>petern: kinda
17:23<ZxBiohazardZx>XD ill go and check the newbie guide on forums again:) i feel like a child in a maze:) knowing some bits, and the exit, but not the way to it anymore:)
17:23<@petern>at least when it comes to spread sheets
17:23<ZxBiohazardZx>yeah wont compile, conflicts with bla bla bla
17:23<ZxBiohazardZx>i just ruined my stable working build XD
17:23-!-Roujin [] has joined #openttd
17:23<ZxBiohazardZx>so now its revert to my old revision?
17:23<Roujin>hey guys
17:23<@Rubidium>luckily you were so smart to make backups
17:24<Roujin>is there an easy way to use int64 in a formatted string?
17:24<Roujin>%il is only int32, isn't it?
17:25<Roujin>or %dl
17:25<@Rubidium>Roujin: cross-platform?
17:25<ZxBiohazardZx>i do have a backup rubidium:)
17:25<ZxBiohazardZx>im not 100% idiot, only 50%
17:25<Roujin>hm, preferably, but if it only worked on windows I could live with it
17:25-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>Roujin: tried with %dll?
17:25-!-lobster [~michielbi@] has joined #openttd
17:26<Roujin>not yet Eddi, will try it..
17:26<ZxBiohazardZx>im just seeing how far i can update XD till it confilicts with the signals on bridge&tunnels again:P
17:26<@Rubidium>"%I64d" or "%lld"
17:27<@Rubidium>former is for Windows/MINGW, latter is for all the rest
17:28<Roujin>hmm, does there exist some override for that in openttd to make it universal?
17:28<@Rubidium>ofcourse: OTTD_PRINTF64
17:29<Roujin>ah yes
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17:29<Roujin>defines just what you just said, %I64d for win, %lld for the rest.. thanks for the help :)
17:32<ZxBiohazardZx>building a clean trunk again:)
17:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r16647 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: remove newgrf.h include from newgrf_engine.h to prevent unnecessary inclusion newgrf.h anyway
17:33<ZxBiohazardZx>Rubidium/yexo what makes the trunk different from stable releases (aka what do you guys usually add/change?)
17:34<ZxBiohazardZx>is it just random patches that are usefull get integrated in trunk or?
17:34<Yexo> <- see log
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17:34<@Rubidium>ZxBiohazardZx: how do you think we get from major release to the next major release? With one magic bang and everything is there?
17:34<Yexo>all new features you'll see in the next stable are in trunk first
17:35<Yexo>then at some point we say, we stop development and fix all remaining bugs, then that's called a 'stable'
17:35<ZxBiohazardZx>@ rubidium no i dont:)
17:35<ZxBiohazardZx>i do see you need the gradual changes, and im happy i can see some now
17:35<Yexo> <- a graphical overview
17:36<ZxBiohazardZx>but even with stable releases i hardly see the big steps you guys are making:) all i see is patches that are integrated, but is ther emore?
17:36<Yexo>should there be more?
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17:36<ZxBiohazardZx>thx for the graphical explain yexo
17:37<ZxBiohazardZx>does that mean that usefull patches like chunnel and signals on bridge/tunnel COULD have been integrated in trunk already (no need to apply-patch those features )
17:37<Roujin>ahaha ^^
17:38<Yexo>all patches could have been integrated
17:38<Yexo>but usually there are ver good reasons for not doing so
17:38<Roujin>according to the pic bugs are backported to the 0.x branches :)
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17:38<ZxBiohazardZx>so specificly the signals on bridges&tunnels did NOT get integrated (yet)?
17:38<Roujin>"oh, we introduced a new bug in trunk, let's backport it to the stable branch ^_^"
17:39<Yexo>ZxBiohazardZx: that's right
17:39<@Rubidium>Roujin: yes that actually (occasionally) happens
17:39<Yexo>in general, all patches you see in the forum are not yet integrated
17:39<ZxBiohazardZx>@yexo how you do those fat-sound-thingys:P
17:39<Roujin>I think it should have been "backport bugfixes" though :)
17:39<Yexo>highlighting you?, just by using your name
17:39<Yexo>like this: ZxBiohazardZx
17:39<Roujin>or was that an intentional easteregg?
17:39<SmatZ>haha @ backport of bugs :)
17:40<ZxBiohazardZx>yexo aha
17:40<ZxBiohazardZx>doesnt work:P
17:40<Yexo>it does work
17:40<Yexo>my windows lights up when you do that
17:40<ZxBiohazardZx>like this: ZxBiohazardZx
17:41<ZxBiohazardZx>anyway i got my stable build up and running again, now try apply the patch and watch for any errors i assume?
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17:43<@Rubidium>Roujin: that image was more for quickly showing someone what branches, tags and trunk mean. It's not meant to be fully correct etc.
17:44<ZxBiohazardZx>@rubidium, if you want to explain for someone then you better do it right;)
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>i should stop watching the news...
17:44<Roujin>no offense meant Rubidium :) just found it funny ^^
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>it's getting closer and closer to "the world is going to end"
17:45<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: the "every hour new fictional reports" kind of news?
17:45-!-Lachie [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:45<@Rubidium>ZxBiohazardZx/Roujin: it actually ended up (vastly reworked) in
17:45-!-Lachie [] has joined #openttd
17:46<ZxBiohazardZx>claiming the stables are just a branch
17:47<Roujin>the stables are a branch, biohazard
17:47<ZxBiohazardZx>seems alright though i guess stables are more like end-product then a branch imo
17:47<@Rubidium>ZxBiohazardZx: you're interpreting it incorrectly
17:47<ZxBiohazardZx>hehe but yeah makes sense:)
17:47<@Rubidium>nightlies aren't trunk either; nightlies are snapshots of trunk
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: the kind that says "peace in israel not going to happen", "protests in iran trown down with blood", "european countries introduce chinese internet", ...
17:47<@Rubidium>same as stable/RC releases are snapshots of the 'stable' branch
17:48<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: nothing new thus, although... eventually there won't be a figth in Israel
17:51<ZxBiohazardZx>woot the signal in tunnel works (V25)
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17:51<dihedral>no way - really? wow - it should go into trunk!!11!oneeleven
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>ZxBiohazardZx: imho, the supposed "signals in tunnel" are the wrong approach...
17:51<ZxBiohazardZx>now for the depot thingy, what patch-program do you suggest yexo
17:51<Yexo>the program patch
17:51<ZxBiohazardZx>Eddi|zuHause what you mean?
17:52<Yexo>or gnu patch, whatever you want to call it
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>i mean it's doing the wrong thing to achieve its supposed goal
17:52<gleeb>I don't see 'signals in tunnels' as a good thing. I don't see many tunnels IRL with them.
17:52<ZxBiohazardZx>it worked fine for me, simulating the signals helped me out alot
17:52<ZxBiohazardZx>gleeb IRL signalling is more advanced anyway
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>gleeb: how do you think subway systems work?
17:53<dihedral>gleeb: what a good reason - NOT
17:53<gleeb>Eddi|zuHause: Very careful timing.
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes. certainly....
17:53*Rubidium knows a tunnel with signals
17:53<@Rubidium>though the tunnel isn't used enough
17:53<gleeb>dihedral: I didn't cite it as a reason, more an observation. You're still mean.
17:53<@Rubidium>so dust settles and the signalling system goes haywire
17:53<ZxBiohazardZx>but Eddi|zuHause what you mean by doing wrong thing... and how would you adress it then?
17:53<Zammler>so tunnels shouldn't have signals, they should just ignore them :-)
17:53<ZxBiohazardZx>cause i like tunnels with signals, whatever you guys say:)
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>ZxBiohazardZx: i did not question the goal
17:54<ZxBiohazardZx>i know you questionned the method
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>i questioned the path it goes to achieve that goal
17:54<ZxBiohazardZx>and i wonder what method you preferred taking rather then this one
17:56<@Rubidium>the method that gives you changing direction/heightlevel under ground and also allows you to build junctions, station and depots underground
17:56<@Rubidium>and the same for tunnels
17:57<@Rubidium>and 'your' patch is heavily incompatible with that
17:57*Prof_Frink wants to build bridges underground
17:57<ZxBiohazardZx>rubidium why are all stables still 0.7.something and not 1.0.something, the stables work and are fully functional compared to original TTD
17:57<@Rubidium>read the goals on the wiki
17:57<ZxBiohazardZx>rubidium, yeah i know, but till you build me a better patch, i like the one i have:)
17:58<ZxBiohazardZx>im reading the roadmap that what you mean?
17:58<dihedral>ZxBiohazardZx: you can like it all you want
17:58<Roujin>no, he meant another wiki page
17:58<dihedral>does not mean people here like it, esp. those who develop openttd
17:59<Roujin>as long as the objectives are not done, why should it be called "finished" (1.0)?
17:59<dihedral>and how they version their game is totally their choice - it makes no difference if it is labeled 0.7 or 1.0
18:00<ZxBiohazardZx>objective 1: Provide a free, open source, transport game CHECK (DONE)
18:01<ZxBiohazardZx>objective 2: Support all 'major' platforms, preferably supporting minor platforms too (DONE??? if not name a platform)
18:01<ZxBiohazardZx>Provide a game that is free from war themes and conflict; hence suitable for all age groups CHECK (DONE) (name a wartheme/confilict)
18:01<dihedral>for goodness sake - you dont have to copy paste all those lines here
18:01<dihedral>i am sure they fully well know what it says
18:01<Yexo>ZxBiohazardZx: please read the complete page, also the info under "Long term goals"
18:02<ZxBiohazardZx>3/3 objectives have been done
18:02<ZxBiohazardZx>the long term goals could be for 2.0.0 etc
18:02<Korenn>This article is a stub. Please, if you can, expand it.
18:02<Korenn>sounds like an objective to me :P
18:03<ZxBiohazardZx>imho 1.0.0 could be released, pushing the long term goals as new objectives for 2.0.0
18:03*Eddi|zuHause ponders an /ignore
18:03<Yexo>if you take that approach, OpenTTD 0.1 could have been called 1.0, since it was open source, it was a transport game, it was free from war thems, it was supporting all major platforms
18:03<Roujin>alright, if you're unhappy with the version numbering scheme, please go ahead and fork it and call it MyGreatGame 1.0
18:03<ZxBiohazardZx>i actually helped replacing GFX for 32bp
18:03<Yexo>read better, the 32bpp graphics project is not in the long term goals
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>ZxBiohazardZx: it was decided very long ago that it can't be called 1.0 before a complete free graphics replacement set is finished
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>that, btw., is part of objective 1
18:04<ZxBiohazardZx>eeehm the patch program, where is it:P
18:04<ZxBiohazardZx>i searched for patch on forums but i got flooded with board-messages:P
18:04<dihedral>oh my word
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>in /usr/bin/patch
18:05<dihedral>i think i am going to extend my ignore list a bit more
18:05<Yexo>after cleaning it you're trying to fill it again?
18:06<ZxBiohazardZx>i already applied patch #1 (the hated signals:) )
18:06<ZxBiohazardZx>but now its time for number 2:) the drive through depots that tortoise wouldnt take:P
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: put all people on it who have an identical prefix and postfix of more than 1 letter
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18:08<Yexo> What is the best strategy now, flooding Alain with some big (incompatible) patches, or ignoring him
18:08-!-orava [] has left #openttd []
18:09<Korenn>obviously just ignore it. it's not as if developers will actually contribute anything with his attitude ;)
18:09-!-tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:10<Yexo>I wasn't talking about helping him, just submitting some big patches to give him some work
18:10<dihedral>Yexo: after cleaning it you're trying to fill it again? <- clearing the list was not on purpose
18:10<dihedral>+ i always try to fill the list with annoying nicks
18:11<dihedral>and i vote for flaming alain till he leaves :-P
18:11<dihedral>if you feed him with stuff he cannot handle he will flood the forums anyway - causing even more work
18:11<dihedral>'how do i ....'
18:11<Korenn>Yexo: but there will always be more people like him. Feeding him work is still feeding him, even if it doesn't get him anywhere ;)
18:11<Yexo>hmm, true
18:11<dihedral>or 'can you please up date your patch to work with this oh so community driven community patch pack though i am the only person managing it'
18:12<Yexo>dihedral: Alain is very capable of flooding the forums without getting any reply
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18:12<dihedral>hehe :-D
18:12<dihedral>Korenn: actually, alain is the worst of them all
18:12<Yexo>most other people give up
18:12<dihedral>in the last 3 years i have not seen anything like that kid
18:13<Yexo>nekomaster comes close sometimes
18:13<Yexo>but I just noticed he is banned here :)
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18:15<Roujin>hmm.. I want to get the name of an engine to output it, (e is instance of Engine) GetString(buf, e->info.string_id, lastof(buf)); <-- this works fine for most cases, but for some newgrf defined engines it contains some garbage
18:15<Roujin>e.g. Airship
18:16<Roujin>I think this is some manual x- positioning done by the author of the newgrf
18:16<Yexo>blame the newgrf author
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>Roujin: wrong handling of UTF8-strings?
18:18<ZxBiohazardZx>ill just leave now:)
18:18<ZxBiohazardZx>have a nice talking and ill try to keep the head revision more often, and maybe talk to you all later:)
18:18<Roujin>are they supposed to be UTF8? oO
18:19<ZxBiohazardZx>UTF-8 please
18:19<ZxBiohazardZx>even in the topic of the IRC;)
18:19<Zammler>ZxBiohazardZx: nothing to do with svn, tortoise is the matter...
18:19<Yexo>ZxBiohazardZx: is searching that hard? (second hit)
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>Roujin: openttd uses UTF8 internally
18:19<ZxBiohazardZx>yexo see that post, patch.exe returns with black empty screen
18:19<ZxBiohazardZx>its the patch i guess
18:19<Yexo>patch.exe is a console program
18:20<Yexo>so you have to start it from a console, not by double-clicking it
18:20<Yexo>mingw = a console
18:20<ZxBiohazardZx>If a process named patch.exe is running on your computer, you may have been infected with a strain of the Netbus worm.
18:20<ZxBiohazardZx>i LOVE it:)
18:20<ZxBiohazardZx>second hit from the google you send:P
18:21<ZxBiohazardZx>you wanted first hit:P
18:21<Roujin>hmm.. yes then I certainly handled it wrong
18:21<Yexo>hits are personalised, so for me it was the second hit
18:22<ZxBiohazardZx>anyway im off, ttyl and again yexo/rubidium thnx for helping me out, you guys always seem to be hre:)
18:22<dihedral>hehe - Yexo, i felt like replying :-P
18:22<Yexo>yeah, nice reply :)
18:22<Yexo>let's hope he gets the hint
18:23<dihedral>he does not
18:23<dihedral>he did not even got the hint in T<something's> patch pack thread
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18:24<@petern>dihedral, i think you're mean
18:24<@petern>(carry on)
18:24<Yexo>lol, I'm just reading back the logs from 17/6, when nekomaster was banned here, nice conversation :)
18:25<@petern>YOU'RE MAKING ME ANGRY
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18:25<Korenn>ullo petern. do you have me on ignore or something?
18:25<dihedral>petern: hehe
18:25<dihedral>YOU MAKE ME ANGRY
18:26<@petern>Korenn, not afaik
18:26<Korenn>I get a total zero reply on any PM's I send you :P
18:26<dihedral>Korenn: and if you were on ignore, why differnece would that make to you?
18:26<dihedral>you'd probably be there for a pretty good reason :-P
18:26<Korenn>dihedral: because I value his advice on a project
18:26<@petern>i have way too many windows open in irssi
18:26<Korenn>ok, so next time, don't try to PM. gotcha :P
18:27<dihedral>PM's really can annoy people
18:28<dihedral>time to hit the sack
18:28<@petern> [23:28] [@petern [Act: 4,5,6,8,9,10,11,13,14,15,16,17,18,21,22,23,24,25,26,28
18:28<@petern>pom te pom
18:28<@petern>tend not to see stuff :p
18:28<SpComb>how open-ended
18:29<dihedral>who wants 28 windows open in irssi :P
18:29<@petern>that's only what shows up to
18:29<Korenn>petern: so I coded the TC industries myself (and fixed the cargos). I next want to map out what exactly to code
18:30<Korenn>do you think that's an advisable approach?
18:30<@petern>SpComb :D
18:31<Korenn>I'd like to occasionally pick your brain if you don't mind, so that I don't work myself into code-invasive dead ends ;)
18:31<dihedral>hehe - yuck
18:32*dihedral pats petern on the back :-D
18:32<dihedral>go go go
18:32<dihedral>to bed!
18:32<dihedral>night all
18:32<dihedral>oh my - did i just say 'all'? pfft
18:32<dihedral>forget it
18:32<@petern>yeah, piss off slag :D
18:33<Korenn>SpComb: at that time, I think you're due a chat medium change :P
18:35-!-reldred [~reldred@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: the part on the left reads like a brainfuck program
18:37<Roujin>Eddi|zuHause: lol, I thought the same
18:38<SpComb>yeah, major nerd alert
18:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r16648 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: move some more includes around
18:39<Roujin>what is it, though?
18:40<SpComb>run it and see
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>right, i wanted to write a brainfuck interpreter
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>parser shouldn't be too difficult, just mind the bracket structure
18:52-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
18:52<@petern>looks like some geek code to me
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19:13<Roujin>can anyone give me some pointers how to handle utf8 strings in openttd (I'd like to print them to a file)? This is what I currently have: Obviously it doesn't work with utf8 and writes some ascii garbage in the places where non-ascii chars are
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19:17<Zammler>good night #openttd
19:17<SmatZ>bye Zammler
19:18-!-Zammler is now known as Ammler
19:18<@Belugas>hu? nekohamster was there?
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but you did not really miss anything :p
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19:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r16649 /trunk/src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp:
19:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix: When the exact AI version a game was saved with is no longer available and
19:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: the latest version of the AI can't load data from that AI version, use the
19:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: latest available version of the AI that can load the data instead of the first
19:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: found version that can load the data.
19:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r16650 /trunk/src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp: -Fix (r16649): missing ()
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19:29<@Belugas>ho... good then... i shall go back to sound editing
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19:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r16651 /trunk/src/saveload/ai_sl.cpp: -Fix: When there is no AI version that can load data from the savegame, load the latest version of the same AI instead of a random AI.
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19:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r16652 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:
19:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: use less strict, but faster check for quickly bailing out in FindTrainCollideEnum() (Bilbo)
19:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: shuffle the code a bit
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20:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r16653 /trunk/src/debug.h: -Fix (r16269): TOC() macro was broken
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20:10<solorvox>hi all, is there a way to select the refit of the vehicle when using the mass replace function? Or a way to refit all of one type to another?
20:11<SmatZ>it will try to refit to cargo it had before replacing
20:11<SmatZ>try it :)
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20:11<SmatZ>save, try, load if it fails
20:11<SmatZ>hello z-MaTRiX
20:12<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho SmatZ
20:12<solorvox>I did, it didn't refit to higher capacity
20:13<solorvox>this bus (1930s) has two capacities, 40 or 57 (city transport I think)
20:13<solorvox>using 0.7.1 btw
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>solorvox: did you try in trunk/nightly? i think there was a commit regarding to cargo subtype
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20:14<solorvox>using r16365 iirc
20:14<solorvox>so like may 21st I think
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20:15<solorvox>but what if the previous one didn't allow refits, is there a way to mass refit things?
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20:15<Eddi|zuHause>no, you cannot specify the refit
20:16<solorvox>hum, if I wasn't traveling at the moment, might look at making a patch.
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>and you are either using 0.7.1 or r16365, these statements are conflicting
20:17<solorvox>is what the file says
20:17<solorvox>it's a .deb
20:17<Yexo>that's 0.7.1, and not a nightly
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20:17<solorvox>well I took svn to mean a nightly checkout
20:18<Yexo>in that case it's named wrong
20:18<+glx>blame the packager
20:18<Yexo>there is no 16365 in the 0.7 branch, so most likely it's indeed a trunk version
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>nightlies are leading to 0.8
20:18<Yexo>but as Eddi|zuHause sais, they should be named 0.8.0-something
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>so yell at the packager
20:19<solorvox>so then I do have a nightly
20:19<Yexo>but an old one
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>a nightly that is a month old
20:19<Yexo>we're at r16653 now
20:20<solorvox>using an eeepc, so compiling the source isn't too practical
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>if you don't update a nightly regularly, there is no need to run a nightly at all (except you need some killer feature)
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>there are binaries for many platforms
20:21<solorvox>I checked the sourceforge page but didn't see a amd64 deb for ubuntu.
20:21<Yexo>the debian one will work fine
20:21<solorvox>but either way, only looking for an easy way to refit...
20:22<SmatZ>solorvox: 1) get sources 2) start compiling sources 3) go have a shower, shopping, eat, sleep ... 4) it's finished
20:22<Yexo>only releases can be found on sourceforge, the rest is on
20:22<solorvox>smatz, you forget the larger issue, the eeepc has limited ssd space, compiler, libs, header files, etc is huge
20:22<solorvox>not just processor power
20:23<SmatZ>solorvox: I just know people who do it that way, on an EEE :)
20:23<solorvox>I'm not against source, I'm a part time/ex gentoo dev
20:23<SmatZ>solorvox: frosch123 is the best person to ask about this...
20:23<solorvox>just not good fit here.
20:23<Yexo>solorvox: did you try these:
20:24<solorvox>but I think it was already said, there isn't a way to mass-refit (yet)
20:24<SmatZ>you can try waiting for him (~10:00 GMT), or open a feature request :)
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>solorvox: you can set refit orders separate from the autoreplace
20:24<SmatZ>good idea!
20:24<SmatZ>hack :)
20:24<solorvox>have to say though, I got this game when it came out in the 90s, loved it then... but openttd fixes sooooo many things that just make it more fun
20:25<SmatZ>good to hear ;)
20:25<solorvox>Eddi|zuHause, you mean one at a time though?
20:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes, needs to be done for each (shared) order list individually
20:25<solorvox>I was playing a map in the 1930s with only buses, have like 130 or so.
20:26<Eddi|zuHause>"go to depot" orders can have a "refit to XYZ" flag
20:27<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if that takes notice of cargo subtypes, though
20:27<solorvox>would that work on the "un-grouped" list?
20:27<Eddi|zuHause>but might be a good place to start the patch ;)
20:29<solorvox>oh, and by the way, was reading on the forums about an "ai building speed", where can I find that?
20:30<Yexo>difficulty settings
20:30<solorvox>on easy the ai has rails built in < 20 seconds on all new subsides
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>you might want to talk to the AI author about toning it down a notch ;)
20:36<solorvox>I'm still very impressed with all the work. Nice to see that this great game not only is still alive, but has improved with so many additions
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. this is one of the more succesful open-source-game-revivals
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>there are many failed ones out there...
20:41<solorvox>wiki is great too, actually seeing the math involved in ratings/etc helps a lot.
20:41<solorvox>although might need a few tweaks, think it still says in places goods help city growth, but devs posted on forums that code said it didn't
20:43<solorvox>btw, there isn't a undo key, is there? my biggest grip is laying track/destroying the wrong thing and having to spend more money to fix the mistake. :)
20:44<Eddi|zuHause>there is an undo function, it is called loading autosave
20:45<solorvox>not what I meant... auto save is what, once per month? you could lose a bit that way
20:45<Yexo>and there won't be one either, for more info search for "forum knob" in the forums :)
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20:45<Yexo>hello Audigex
20:46<Audigex>hey :)
20:46<Audigex>oh crap, just knocked my mouse dongle out
20:46<Audigex>and now i've lost it
20:46<Audigex>ah wait, got it :)
20:55<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Is it possible to show the bounding boxes for sprites / sprite layouts in-game?
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21:26<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Anyone have a free minute or two to help with a few bounding box questions? I'm Trying to order and code 3 sprites for a given station tile that has a NW/SE orientation... F3 03 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FA 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F4 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 61 04 00 00 80 where FA 04 is the "nearest piece" F4 04 is the mock track and back wall, and 61 04 is the "ground"
21:27<Chicago_Rail_Authority>Trying to work through, but having a hard time with it
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21:53<Audigex>how the bloody hell do you make a chevron shape in isometric?
21:53<Audigex>on a train / view, on the front
21:53<Audigex>i need a protractor...
21:56<Eddi|zuHause>besides i have no idea what a chevron shape is, the transformation from 3D-coordinates to 2D-isometric-coordinates is very easy
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21:56<reldred>Draw a face on view, non isometric, than work accross every two pixels accross and move it one pixel up. It'll be rough, you'll need to fill in edges here and there, but that's roughly how you translate any complex 2d shape to isometric.
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 25 00:00:11 2009