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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-07-13

---Logopened Mon Jul 13 00:00:36 2009
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05:05<adasko>can i somehow predicted when industries inress production?
05:06<@Rubidium>predict to maybe 60% certainty
05:08<@Rubidium>hmm, no that's actually
05:08<@Rubidium>@calc 0.1667 * 0.6667
05:08<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 0.11113889
05:09<@Rubidium> <- take a look at that
05:09<adasko>hm... so if i have excelent ratings i have to wait...?
05:10<@Rubidium>then there is, per month, a higher chance of production increase than production decrease
05:11<@Rubidium>however... it's all random, so it might keep on decreasing
05:11<@Rubidium>anyhow, oil wells will always only decrease
05:11<adasko>Rubidium: I read it... bit its not perfectly clear for me, i just wanted to confirm that i udenrstand this article ;)
05:12<adasko>on some multiplayer games i saw coal mine with around 1k production of coal ;)
05:13<planetmaker>adasko, yes, provide constantly good service and chances are that it grows quite well.
05:13<planetmaker>2k is maximum you can get for coal mines
05:13<planetmaker>assuming default industries
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05:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16801 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#3022]: cargo payments weren't destroyed when a vehicle was destructed. This only happened when you crashed a vehicle while it was unloading.
05:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16802 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp:
05:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3031]: service orders didn't behave like conditional orders; if a train
05:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: doesn't need service it didn't completely skip the order, it would first send
05:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: the vehicle towards the depot and would then realise it doesn't need to go there
05:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: making it possible that the vehicle leaves that station on the wrong side.
05:19<adasko>so... what i can do to increase chance of increase production of industries? use new trains, keep max speed of entering station, keep excelent rating for products... anythig else?
05:20<adasko>if i dont have a station for passangers in town, but im using for example coal mine from owner by this towen, is there a point to make advertising campaign? ;>
05:23<Eddi|zuHause>yes... advertising campain affects all cargos within a certain radius around town
05:23<@Rubidium>advertising campaings only temporarily increase the station rating of nearby stations, regardless of the type. How it exactly behaves is also on the game mechanics page
05:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16803 /branches/0.7/ (10 files in 4 dirs):
05:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
05:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AIVehicle::GetReliability to get the current reliability of vehicles (r16790)
05:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: The win32 and win64 binary packages would not get their readme converted to DOS line endings (r16769)
05:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AITile::GetCargoProduction/Acceptance did not accept a radius of 0 anymore (r16767)
05:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: In the refit window the "Select cargo type to carry" line always showed the ship refit tooltip [FS#3018] (r16757)
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06:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16804 /branches/0.7/src/ (16 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
06:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
06:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Service orders did not behave like conditional orders; if a train does not need service it did not completely skip the order, but still go in the direction of the depot [FS#3031] (r16802)
06:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Houses would not get build on the map edge [FS#3025] (r16795)
06:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Audio playback rate was fixed at 11025Hz regardless of the rate specified
06:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: to the audio driver, resulting in incorrect playback speed. It is still
06:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: preferable to use 11025Hz output rate if possible as OpenTTD's sample rate
06:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r16805 /trunk/src/ (mixer.cpp mixer.h sound.cpp): -Codechange: Remove 'unused' mixer channel flags, which always had the same value.
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06:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16806 /branches/0.7/ (51 files in 3 dirs): [0.7] -Backport from trunk: language updates
06:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16807 /branches/0.7/src/lang/ (25 files in 2 dirs): [0.7] -Fix (r16806): shouldn't forget to revert the 'mistakes' of the script :(
06:33<@petern>is it near, or just house keeping?
06:33<@Rubidium>still waiting on FS#2703 to be fixed
06:35<@Rubidium>though I'm pondering whether to wait for that or just release a RC (some quite untrivial backports) and do another RC when FS#2703 is fixed
06:35<@DorpsGek>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16808 /branches/0.7/ (12 files in 2 dirs): [0.7] -Fix [FS#2703]
06:35<@petern>TrueBrain to the rescue
06:37<TrueBrain>solutions are always simple :p
06:37<@Rubidium>revert noai?
06:38<TrueBrain>I like mine solution more :p
06:38<@Rubidium>you could also consider finding a whip and whip Yexo until he has fixed it ;)
06:39<@petern>revert everything
06:39<@petern>back to the (current) r1
06:39<TrueBrain>petern: I already once gave you a patch for that
06:39<TrueBrain>you didn't like it :'(
06:39<@petern>revert newgrf!
06:39<@petern>then implement an ini file system instead
06:39<@Rubidium>ini? not xml?
06:39<TrueBrain>NO! BINARY! MUCH BETTER!!
06:40<@petern>xml's too complicated
06:40<@petern>TrueBrain, don't be stupid!
06:40<@Rubidium>oh, sorry... natural language is much better
06:40*TrueBrain puts on a crazy face
06:40<@petern>woah, you look like bjarni ;)_
06:41<@Rubidium>I want a nice looking power plant that accepts coal and gas, has a nice smoke stack and shows a burning furnace whenever there is coal/gas in the stockpile. It also shows a stockpile with coal, gas won't be shown as it is in big underground containers. This means no tunnels under the industry are allowed.
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>let's rewrite openttd in COBOL
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06:44<@Rubidium>and for real good measures, the system should understand the following too:
06:44<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, erlang :-D
06:44<@Rubidium>I would like to find a good acceptance of the coal and natural gas power plant is a good smoke stack and display the incineration furnace gas stocks. It also shows that stocks and coal, natural gas is not shown because it is underground in a large container. This means that there is no industry-wide tunnel is not allowed.
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06:45<TrueBrain>I think Rubidium is losing it
06:45<@Rubidium>English -> Dutch -> Chinese -> Finnish -> English
06:45<TrueBrain>who is going to stop him? :)
06:45<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: if any language, pick ADA
06:45<planetmaker>nah. Take prolog :P
06:46<Eddi|zuHause>ADA being the i-don't-allow-you-to-write-bad-code-but-i-don't-allow-you-to-write-good-code-either language?
06:46<dihedral>erlang has not global variables, variables work more like constants, you hand around a whopping huge state :-P
06:46<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: exactly!
06:46<@Rubidium>only OCR-ed whitespace!
06:46<blathijs>dihedral: Yay for functional programming :-)
06:47<dihedral>erlang is neat and fast, but .....
06:47<TrueBrain>it is erlang :p
06:48<dihedral>i somewhat dislike having to pass a huge state all the time
06:48<@Rubidium>what about Z?
06:48<@Rubidium>or Spin?
06:49<@Rubidium>or... if you want a language that can be run at the speed of the chip: VHDL
06:50<TrueBrain>VHDL ... lol
06:50<Eddi|zuHause>the compiling takes ages, though :p
06:50<TrueBrain>one of those 'languages' I try to keep a clear distance from
06:50<Eddi|zuHause>and there are valid programs that cannot be compiled properly ;)
06:58<@petern>openttd should support 1000000x1000000 maps with 1000 height levels
06:58<@petern>and it should run on the same hardware that TTD did
06:58<TheStarLion>somehow, I don't think even the most efficiant coding would manage that
06:58<@Rubidium>petern: and it must be ttdp compatible?
06:59<@petern>of course
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07:04<Eddi|zuHause>in both ways!
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>i want all my (custom patch pack) games to load in all openttd and ttdpatch versions with all features enabled
07:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r16808 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r16338): don't crash when loading savegame with invalid references
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07:18<gein>I was just wondering if I have the permission to "copy" your wiki layout to another open source project?
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07:19<fonsinchen>SmatZ, are you still interested in smallmap zooming?
07:19<TrueBrain>gein: good question; I wonder under what license our wiki is ... btw, define "copy" ;) I don't trust those " :p
07:20<gein>TrueBrain: I'm not interested of the contents, just how you have structured the wiki with titles, subtitles etc. Like the Development page for example.
07:21<gein>"borrow" then? :)
07:21<SmatZ>fonsinchen: yeah, I was away for a week, so I didn't have a look at anything for 7 days ;)
07:21<TrueBrain>SmatZ: was it a nice week away, without us? :)
07:22<SmatZ>TrueBrain: you know, it would be nicer with you :-p
07:22<fonsinchen>You might be interested in the new patch I posted in FS#54 then
07:22<TrueBrain>gein: somehow I doubt we invented the layout :p Rubidium: what do you say?
07:22<SmatZ>yup :)
07:22<fonsinchen>It fixes all the problems mentioned before and as an additional benefit removes a lot of useless code and documents most of the obscurity
07:23<gein>TrueBrain: yeah I know. Maybe a silly question to ask, but I thought I could at least be kind to ask
07:23<gein>as the openttd fan I am (although this open source project has nothing at all to do with ottd)
07:23<TrueBrain>gein: it is :) As mostly it makes me wonder what our license and policy regarding those requests is ...
07:23<@petern>just do it
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07:24<TrueBrain>gein: but the layout of that page is just a table, so there can't be any problems there :p
07:25<TrueBrain>howdie Roest
07:25<gein>TrueBrain: I know, but it might be obvious to some, that I have been influenced. But with your blessing I'm fine
07:25<TrueBrain>the icons and content I wonder about though ...
07:25<@Rubidium>we have a layout on the wiki?
07:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: users have contributed layouts, yes :p
07:26<gein>TrueBrain: I won't borrow them anyway
07:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: under what license should the content of the wiki be?
07:27<TrueBrain>fits with the GPLv2 of OpenTTD itself
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07:55<TrueBrain>Yexo / Rubidium: btw, FS#2703 .. nobody ever attached a backtrace?
08:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r16809 /trunk/src/ (company_gui.cpp saveload/afterload.cpp): -Fix [FS#3021](r13096): automatic resizing of SelectCompanyLiveryWindow wasn't working as expected
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08:19<dragonhorseboy>hey dred
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08:26<PeterT>@seen niblet
08:26<@DorpsGek>PeterT: niblet was last seen in #openttd 11 hours, 7 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <niblet> no
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08:41<niblet>hey :)
08:42<Ammler>sali Belugas :-)
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>man... these insects are a plague... this time not in my monitor
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>but they are on the window (from outside)
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>like thousands of them
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>most of them are decorating the spiderwebs...
08:43<Tekky>Hi :)
08:44<@Belugas>s'Halla Halekoom, Ammler
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if that's really how it's written ;)
08:46<@Belugas>neither do I ;)
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>"vollständig: ‏السلام عليكم‎ as-salāmu ʿalaikum, „der Frieden auf euch!, Friede sei mit dir/euch!“"
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>and it says that the greeting is to be used only between muslims
08:49<Ammler>anyway thanks :-)
08:49<Ammler>oh :-o
08:49<SmatZ>salam is czech for sausage
08:50<SmatZ>sausage with you
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>that's a salami, has nothing to do with each other ;)
08:51<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, thanks. Well.. since it translate as Allah be with you, ans since Allah is the same as God, i'd say it's a bit universal
08:51<Tekky>I just noticed that a topic in the Suggestions Forum of OpenTTD has been locked by a moderator. Although I don't agree with the tone of the poster and I also don't quite understand what the poster is saying due to bis bad English, it seems a bit excessive to me to lock this thread, as he seems to have posted a valid suggestion. Here is a link to the thread:
08:51<@Belugas>for those who have a god
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>no... "Salam" means "peace"... nothing to do with allah
08:51<Tekky>Here is the link again, as it got truncated:
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>compare "Shalom" in hebrew
08:52*Belugas blasts that "friend" who told me so
08:53<Tekky>Oh, in my previous message, I wrote "bis bad English". I meant "his bad English" of course.
08:55<Tekky>This is not the first time that I had the impression of forum moderator Hyronymus inappropriately locking threads.
08:55<@petern>Tekky, we don't argue with global mods
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>valid, possibly... but he did not search for old threads suggesting the same thing
08:55<@petern>let's face it
08:55<@petern>it is not in any way an original suggestion
08:55<@Rubidium>Tekky: take a look at e.g. and
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08:58<Tekky>Rubidium: Ah, thanks, I was unaware of the second thread you posted.
09:00<@Rubidium>and being warned (by a moderator) to not do it again and then doing it again, after reading said warning doing it again sounds like enough reason (to me) for locking
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09:04<Tekky>I do not believe that misbehavior of the thread poster warrants locking of the thread if this thread still contains a valid suggestion. However, now I know that his suggestion cannot be considered valid, as he himself made the same suggestion in a previous thread.
09:06<PeterT>@seen niblet
09:06<@DorpsGek>PeterT: niblet was last seen in #openttd 24 minutes and 52 seconds ago: <niblet> hey :)
09:07<PeterT>niblet: is your patch out yet?
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09:12<niblet>still some bugs to fix
09:12<niblet>come help me find them
09:13<niblet>play on the server. experiment
09:14<PeterT>which one?
09:14<PeterT>im on Town builder
09:14<niblet>all 3 is running the latest version
09:14<niblet>if you find any bug at all let me know
09:14<PeterT>one thing, but its probably my connection
09:14<PeterT>but i constantly break connection
09:14<PeterT>at least once every 10 minutes
09:15<PeterT>sometimes 5 mintues
09:15<@Rubidium>servers running the latest version? really?
09:15<niblet>"my" latest version :p
09:17<PeterT>of the patch ;)
09:17<PeterT>niblet, how did you make a patch, that still qualifies as 0.7.1?
09:17<PeterT>can you do the same for the copy and paste patch? so you can join 0.7.x servers?
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>no, because that can be considered cheating
09:18<SmatZ>./configure --revision=0.7.1
09:18<niblet>there is already a 0.7.1 version of the copy paste patch
09:19<PeterT>really? on the forums?
09:20<PeterT>hold on, i will look for it
09:21<PeterT>is that the correct search
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09:22<PeterT>whats the link for 0.7.1 copy and paste?
09:22<planetmaker>go and look in the copy&paste thread
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09:22<@Rubidium>planetmaker: that isn't a link
09:23<planetmaker>you know... that parabola with fish for a day and food for life? ;)
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>in a rather wide definition it is a link
09:24<Ammler>those patches are one of the reasons, coop servers use nightly.
09:24<@Rubidium>if you aren't shy on using NewGRFs you can desync copy-pasters quite easily
09:24<PeterT>why do you guys hate cop paste so much?
09:25<Tekky>Copy&paste for track layouts? How reliable is that? I guess indestructible objects such as lighthouses or these radio towers must be a nuisance when using copy&paste?
09:25<@Rubidium>a) people keep complaining they want it added
09:25<@Rubidium>b) the patch isn't finished AT ALL; the patch even contains 'continue from here with fixing X' etc.
09:25<@Rubidium>c) it's a maintainance hell
09:25<@Rubidium>d) people then also want undo
09:26<KenjiE20>e) it's boring?
09:26<niblet>but its priceless when making 8-way tracks :p
09:26<planetmaker>uhm.... how so?
09:26<@Rubidium>f) the patch contained TWO desyncs, of which after long whining from me they finally fixed one
09:26<PeterT>less work
09:26<@Rubidium>g) if you want copy-paste, you better write an AI because you're network is boring anyways
09:26<planetmaker>one desync is one too many :)
09:26<Ammler>well, it mgith be helpful for mass sp game
09:26<PeterT>whatever, i just want to try it out
09:27<niblet>I like using it to make big 8-way main tracks late in the game
09:27<planetmaker>Ammler, yeah... c&p in a h2h game.
09:27<@Rubidium>h) it has reported bugs, yet no-one in a long time has fixed them
09:27<planetmaker>Oh... he's doing well? Just clone his network :P
09:27<niblet>and some times to copy standard station layouts (except the station isnt copied atm)
09:27<PeterT>i am here:
09:27<PeterT>copy paste thread
09:27<planetmaker>I'm here
09:27<Eddi|zuHause><- i am here
09:27<KenjiE20>I'm over there --->
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09:28<niblet>btw c&p can sort of be used like an exploit
09:28<niblet>I modified it to it sendt all commands instantly.. just to test
09:28<niblet>and I disconnected half the ppl on the server with flooding
09:28<Ammler>I would like a patch, which sends automatically a ufo to something which looks like something already built.
09:29<dihedral>Ammler, make a console command ufo <tile-id>
09:29<KenjiE20>"rcon nuke 0x012345" would be nice too :P
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: we recently discussed improving the method of deciding where an ufo should land... you are free to make a suggestion (in form of a patch) :p
09:29<Tekky>Wouldn't it be best to remove indestructable objects such as lighthouses and radio towers from the game in the copy&paste patch, as they must be a nuisance when attempting to copy complex track layouts. Or does the patch already do that?
09:29<Ammler>dihedral: smatz would do it, but it would desync, needs client side patch.
09:30<dihedral>then nuke them with an injected docommand :-P
09:31<Tekky>Because I find indestructible objects already a nuisance when not using copy&paste. :)
09:31<dihedral>that is what they are there fore!
09:31<niblet>tekky: you'll still run into cities, industries etc
09:32<niblet>the best workaround I found was to make a "tunnel piece" that you copy whenever youre passing through any of that
09:32<niblet>just go underground
09:32<dihedral>what a bore
09:32<dihedral>tell me, you probably level all land below your tracks too ^^
09:33<niblet>copy paste does that for you ;)
09:33<niblet>yes its quite handy, but you cant really use it before late-game when you have a steady cash income
09:34<PeterT>ok i found it, not in c+p thread, but a patch pack by bilbo has it in it
09:37<PeterT>no servers with toyland landscape?
09:39<Dragoon_Jett>Make your own
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09:43<dihedral>Dragoon_Jett, yay for even more servers
09:44<PeterT>hey dihedral, im gonna join your server
09:44<dihedral>are you
09:44<dihedral>i'd like to see how you do that ^^
09:45<dihedral>seeing as it is not running
09:45<PeterT>i have'nt lately, because the maps are really unplayable
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09:45<dihedral>you could not lately
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09:46<planetmaker>hm... why not running, dih?
09:47<dihedral>1. not used, which makes it 2. boring
09:47<planetmaker>fair enough
09:47<dihedral>3. who cares? ;-P
09:48<dihedral>if at least one would find bugs :-)
09:48<PeterT>well, its not used because the maps (you may not have see) are unplayable
09:48<PeterT>1 town, 70 islands, 4 industries
09:48<dihedral>it's called challenge
09:48<PeterT>no its called boring
09:48<planetmaker>people don't want a challange :)
09:49<dihedral>tough luck :-D
09:49<PeterT>i like the older maps, big flat lands, do what you want
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09:51<Ammler>[15:48] <dihedral> if at least one would find bugs <-- yeah, damn trunk is too stable lately ;-)
09:52<PeterT>lol ;)
09:54<dihedral>Ammler, working != stable
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09:58<dragonhorseboy>just asking but any of you know if germany railroads had any standard gauge mallets? (I know they had some NG 0-6-6-0's etc but still)
09:59<Ammler>who was the guy looking for bugs to solve, just liked to report airport glitch but it is already a very old known bug:
09:59<dragonhorseboy>dihedral did you ever try play with that user-created ttdx map that was pretty much almost all cities except for some green land around edge of map with some industries there? I forgot name but I recall someone said it was created with a buggy build of ttdx
09:59<planetmaker>It's not an airport-glitch, Ammler
10:00<planetmaker>it's rather a "build on slopes" glitch
10:00<Ammler>not only, indeed.
10:00<planetmaker>(just learnt it recently :P )
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10:00<Ammler>very low prio :-)
10:00<dragonhorseboy>ammler btw I tried basecost grf a bit more with different mixes of grfs and it looks like basecost really does have buggy terraform prices even with no track/train grfs loaded. oh well it was a good try I guess :-) (or in this case with IS2-beta3 build that I only got anyhow)
10:01<dragonhorseboy>but like I was saying..the airport costs all works just as they should
10:01<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: check the source of that grf
10:02<dragonhorseboy>when I feel like it perhaps heh .. a bit busy working on various small projects now (not to mention trying to decide on who to pick for domain name registar too)
10:02<Ammler>I don't think, it depense much on different grf sets, except av8 and planeset.
10:02<Ammler>and there is nothing about terraform.
10:03<dragonhorseboy>ammler.. the fifth parameter did say so
10:03<Ammler>but of course, it depense on the order you load the grfs
10:04<dragonhorseboy>well basecost was always at the bottommost (if its on top it seem to act like all parameters are ignored)
10:04<dihedral>dragonhorseboy, nice idea
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10:05<dragonhorseboy>dihedral..yeah and one thought that came up before but I still have to try it was to play that one particular map with either japanset or 2cc+metro because both sets introduce high capacity commuter trains which would be perfect :p
10:05<dragonhorseboy>I always found that map too difficult to play with the usual (alak ttdx) trains..even the asiastar was too slow and insufficent-seating
10:06<dihedral>grf's are set in save games
10:06<dihedral>and before you say something: scenarios are savegames
10:06<dragonhorseboy>there's nothing stopping sending it through scenario editor again with revised grf list .. just as long as its only for vehicle-related grfs
10:07<dihedral>dragonhorseboy, it's not supported?
10:07<dragonhorseboy>I do certainlly NOT want to think of trying to force-load ttrs3 and hoping it doesn't crash.
10:07<dihedral>you just do not do that!
10:07<dragonhorseboy>dihedral..I've done it many times
10:07<dihedral>it did not say it's not possible
10:07<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: how do you change basecosts?
10:08<dragonhorseboy>especially for the forum scenarios that seem to keep missing useable grfs ( want ME to play that 1930 scenario with zero trains???)
10:08<dragonhorseboy> the newgrf window then clicked the 'save' button in lower-right and close it then make a new scenario and lay some random rails&bridges :)
10:09<Ammler>well, that isn't a change, that is new game.
10:10<Ammler>I have no idea anymore, if it still works like 2 years ago.
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10:11<dragonhorseboy>well it would had been useful to make planes more reasonably priced (rather than being too cheap that you earn millions in a year) but oh well .. for till now I usually play with planes:0
10:11<dragonhorseboy>to our own ;)
10:12<dragonhorseboy>there is one thing I do like in term of gameplay tho .. japanset introduces yearly expense for any wagons .. sounds more relastic to me. still have to keep paying maintenance on the coaches even if very few passengers take your train.
10:14<dragonhorseboy>hmm say have anyone seen extspotter lately?
10:14<PeterT>i saw him today
10:14<PeterT>hes on gameday still i think
10:15<dragonhorseboy>was wondering because he seem to have some really bad lag problem that he couldn't stay on for long on mega's IS server. and haven't seen him again ever since saturday
10:15<dragonhorseboy>so ty
10:15<PeterT>do you want to talk to him?
10:16<Ammler>yes, it is still possible to change basecosts on a running game
10:16<dragonhorseboy>may see him again when (and if) mega starts another server again
10:16<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: I guess, you just aren't aware of, when it changes.
10:16<PeterT>lol ok
10:16<Ammler>so you might be a bit confused.
10:18<dragonhorseboy> I set the terraform parameter to 6 for one scenario and let it run for a month then lay one rail on a slope. quit game and repeat with 14 instead... then again with 255. and in all three it was still the same one single absurb high pricetag for the one rail-on-slope compared to that all other costs did change accordingly
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10:18<dragonhorseboy>as soon as I remove basecost the terraform price sudden falls back to the normal default one
10:19<Ammler>you can't change the costs just by "apply newgrf"
10:19<Ammler>well, some are possible, you see that in the difficulty settings GUI
10:20<Ammler>those which are changeable there, are also changeable with the GRF ingame
10:20<Ammler>those which are "greyed out" needs the way through scenario editor.
10:22<Ammler>but be warned, there is a new (mis)feature in the editor, it does delete all companies, afaik. (never used it anymore)
10:24<Ammler>maybe, I spoke crap.
10:27<Ammler>no, test worked here.
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10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16810 /trunk/ -Fix (r16115): strgen didn't get rebuild when table/strgen_tables.h was changed.
10:31<Ammler>he, here, it doesn't delete the company
10:32<Ammler></monolog> sorry :-(
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10:40<dragonhorseboy> are you saying basecost can't effect terraform price in a new scenario but only when via scenario editor or ?
10:41<Ammler>yes, after "save" in the difficutly gui
10:42<Ammler>running costs can, propably.
10:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16811 /trunk/src/ (lang/korean.txt strings.cpp table/strgen_tables.h): -Change: introduce a plural 'rule' for Korean
10:50<dragonhorseboy>hmm you know what ammler...I take everything back.. terraform prices actually WORKS after making a custom scenario
10:50<dragonhorseboy>hm..they need to add that footnote to the basecost.grf site on openttdcoop :)
10:51<Ammler>it's a wiki :P
10:52<@Rubidium>bah... I was off by 1 hour 30 minuted and 38 seconds for my 2 millionth bananas download estimate
10:53<Ammler>unbelieveable many.
10:54<dragonhorseboy>I would had downloaded more from there except for that a lot of it is missing compared to just downloading the one single openttdcoop grf package instead
10:54<@Rubidium>and the 2 millionth download was the AI "Rondje om de kerk"
10:54<Ammler>I was wondering 2days after uploading opengfx alpha5, already 1000 downloads
10:55<Ammler>wha't a "kerk"?
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10:59<dragonhorseboy>thanks a lot ammler now that finally "works" it for me here .. I'll have to decide my grf list again since I can put planes back in ;)
11:02<PeterT>why cant i download the "choo choo" AI, in game?
11:02<PeterT>it says its uploaded on
11:02<Noldo>it's not uploaded to bananas?
11:03<@Rubidium>PeterT: because you don't have a new enough version?
11:04<PeterT>i will then use the latest nightly
11:04<PeterT>hmmm, thanks, Rubidium
11:05<PeterT>if i download Choo Choo AI in the nightly, can i play in an older version?
11:05<@Rubidium>usually not being able to download means that the AI author has decided that it's incompatible with that version
11:05<PeterT>oh ok
11:07<PeterT>I just realized that I love TerraGenesis
11:07<PeterT>I realized it after I saw Original
11:14<PeterT>niblet: how are you doing with the patch?
11:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16812 /extra/strgen/Makefile: [strgen] -Fix (r16115): strgen didn't get rebuild when table/strgen_tables.h was changed
11:15<@Rubidium>PeterT: each time asking niblet causes him to waste time reading and possibly answering your question, thus delaying whatever you are waiting for
11:16<PeterT>Rubidium: Currently, niblet is testing his patch on the servers, waiting for bugs. Me asking him how he's doing doesn't distract him from looking for bugs, because there aren't any
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11:16<planetmaker>... sure
11:17<LadyHawk>or maybe there are but he's just not found them yet!
11:17<dihedral>PeterT, there are no bugs??
11:17<@Rubidium>LadyHawk: then they still are there
11:17<dihedral>how do bugs do that
11:17<PeterT>dihedral: not yet!
11:17<PeterT>dihedral: or not at the current moment
11:17<dihedral>yes there are, you just dont know of them ^^
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11:18<PeterT>here, dihedral, go on any of the "Akoz's" servers, and if you find a bug, tell niblet
11:18<dihedral>wait - are those goal servers?
11:18<dihedral>hehe - i can stall the entire server :-P
11:19<PeterT>yes, goal servers
11:19<@Rubidium>I usually rather see the diff as it's more clear to see whether there're bugs
11:19<PeterT>how can you stall? 1000 boats?
11:19<dihedral>only need to join as spec
11:19<PeterT>He hasn't uploaded the diff yet, I don't think
11:19<PeterT>dihedral, how?
11:19<dihedral>the diff is best, yes
11:19<dihedral>PeterT, trade secret
11:20<PeterT>how do you do private messages?
11:20<PeterT>is it "/notify"
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11:21<dihedral>or /help ^^
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11:21<KenjiE20>dihedral :)
11:21<PeterT>why do i have to open mozilla firefox when you could just tell me
11:21<dihedral>and i do not want private messages if you dont mind
11:22<dihedral>because that will teach you how to find information yourself next time
11:22<@Rubidium>PeterT: because feeding you does mean we have to keep feeding you as you can't feed yourself
11:22<PeterT>feed me
11:22<@Rubidium>you said ignore, right?
11:23<dihedral>Rubidium, sometimes babies also cry if they need their nappies changed :-P
11:25<PeterT>There isn't a page on HP
11:26<PeterT>Rubidium: is there a formula for power? a certain number of HP for a certain weight?
11:26<dragonhorseboy>no petert
11:26<PeterT>to figure out how many locos to x number of wagons
11:27<dragonhorseboy>the real hp is the engine itself
11:27<dragonhorseboy>eg a EMD 645-C etc
11:27<PeterT>so is two SH30s enough for 8 coal wagons, fully loaded?
11:27<PeterT>which would be 7,200 HP
11:27<@petern>one is more than enough
11:28<PeterT>even fully loaded?
11:28<dihedral>try it
11:28<planetmaker>PeterT, some things are way easier tried out than asked...
11:29<PeterT>so then what is ok to ask?!
11:29<dihedral>peter vs peter :-D
11:30<planetmaker>my bets are on... peter :P
11:30<dragonhorseboy>dihedral..and don't forget there's a third Peter (don't think he appears on irc tho) on ottd multiplayer too
11:30<dihedral>Mr T?
11:30<dragonhorseboy>I've seen him a few times on jonty's server
11:30<dihedral>"i pitty the fool"
11:32<PeterT>oh yes, "Peter1138 [HU]" developer of TTDpatch, or openttd, or something like that
11:32<@Rubidium>who cares about other peters? There's only one master peter
11:32<@petern>[HU] ?
11:33<@Rubidium>/msg chanserv info #openttd
11:33<PeterT>info #openttd
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11:47<dihedral>"No farmer ever plowed a field by turning it over in his mind." <- i like that ^^
11:48<planetmaker>^^ good one :)
11:58<planetmaker>hm... the "X" as the close button got replaced by ...
11:58<planetmaker>in r16800
12:00<planetmaker>String too long and replaced by ...
12:00<planetmaker>I postthe image in a FS entry
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12:01<planetmaker>posted. And forgot to set version not to 0.7.1 :)
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12:01<SmatZ>and category to UI ;)
12:01<planetmaker>meh. yes :S
12:02<@Rubidium>well... sounds like
12:02<@Rubidium>a) the X is too wide
12:02<@Rubidium>b) does this happen in the rail toolbar too?
12:02<planetmaker>Every window
12:02<dihedral>./configure --with-ccache --without-osx-sysroot
12:02<dihedral>checking OSX sysroot... no (use system default)
12:02<dihedral>I couldn't detect any XCode >= 2.5 on your system
12:02<dihedral>please install/upgrade your XCode
12:02<@petern>does it happen with ttd graphics instead of opengfx?
12:02<planetmaker>but let me check rail toolbar specifically
12:02<planetmaker>dihedral, you didn't compile for long, eh ?
12:03<dihedral>at least not on the mac
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12:03<planetmaker>you need to revert one commit. I can tell you which... in half an hour or so when I'm home.
12:03<Chruker>heh, here I through drive-through bus stations would be better than the terminus stations, but with terminus stations the city can handle nearly double the amount of busses, since they are less prone to blocking roads.
12:03<dihedral>planetmaker, :-S
12:03<dihedral>half an hour?? :-P
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12:04<@petern>(that question was for planetmaker, of course)
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12:04<@Rubidium>planetmaker: r16796, right?
12:04<planetmaker>Rubidium, r16800 was what I used
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12:04<planetmaker>that's what this machine built at 5am for me :)
12:05<@Rubidium>planetmaker: I'm talking about the commit you need to revert
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12:05<planetmaker>Rubidium... I meant that "revert" wrt to dihedrals compile problem
12:05<dihedral>i checked out a tag btw
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12:05<dragonhorseboy>chruker...the problem is with not using the drive-through station from both entry ends.
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12:06<planetmaker>but I would very much guess so.
12:06<dragonhorseboy>happens often
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12:06<@petern>i guess it doesn't happen with ttd graphics so the bug is invalid
12:06<dragonhorseboy>the deadend station can't even run two buses at one always has to wait for first one to clear the roadway inside station before it can even enter/exit
12:07<dragonhorseboy>(and neverminding some newer grfs also now refuse to allow longer vehicles to not use drive-thru's
12:07<planetmaker>your guess is right, petern ... :(
12:07<planetmaker>^ Rubidium
12:07<dihedral>planetmaker, 16419?
12:07<planetmaker>dihedral, no, I don't think
12:08<planetmaker>^ dihedral
12:09<planetmaker>petern, but if the "X" is a string - shouldn't then the widget adjust the size to the string?
12:09<@Rubidium>planetmaker: ofcourse... ONCE IMPLEMENTED!
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12:10<@Rubidium>which is WHY I asked you whether it happened for the rail toolbar
12:10<planetmaker>it doesn't happen there, Rubidium
12:10<@Rubidium>so it's basically a dupe of FS#1905
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12:12<planetmaker>... maybe. A quick scan does't really tell me what exactly that is about except "OO windows"
12:14<@Rubidium>it's basically the whole 'rewrite GUI' to scale thyself tracker issue
12:14<planetmaker>:) ah, thanks
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12:15<@Rubidium>although there're more bugs that will be fixed once FS#1905 is done
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12:15<planetmaker>Hm... so... switching back to the original graphics is for me not really a choice
12:15<planetmaker>@kick PeterT (wrong channel!)
12:16<PeterT>no, not wrong channel, wrong command
12:16<planetmaker>Basically then it would need a different font(size) for the X
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12:16<PeterT>how do i find the last change in the newest version?
12:16<PeterT>whats the "@" command
12:16<planetmaker>But IMO it cannot be considered a bug of OpenGFX to have a different X than TTD
12:16<@petern>it is
12:17<@petern>the ottd gui has always been a fixed size
12:17<planetmaker>petern, honestly? Then it would be a cheap clone and a copyright infrindgement
12:17<@petern>it is anyway
12:17<dihedral>PeterT, ^^
12:17<dihedral>way better overview
12:18<planetmaker>fantastic petern
12:18<PeterT>ooh, trailer for Final Destination 4 came out :)
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12:22<PeterT>@kick me
12:22<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: me is not in #openttd.
12:22<PeterT>@kick you
12:22<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: you is not in #openttd.
12:22*PeterT kicks you
12:22<planetmaker>hm... some other question: didn't 'd' once skip the current order in the order overview window?
12:23<dihedral>@seen Yexo
12:23<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 1 hour, 1 minute, and 52 seconds ago: <Yexo> in that case that's likely, as I said, I'm not sure on the exact numbers
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12:24<@Rubidium>planetmaker: guess someone thought dynamite is more important
12:25<@Rubidium>shows how... uhm... well used it was
12:26<@Rubidium>anyhow, don't expect a quick fix for FS#3033
12:26<planetmaker>ok, no worries.
12:26<planetmaker>After all a fix is somewhere in the pipe :)
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12:32<@DorpsGek>LadyHawk: seen [<channel>] <nick>
12:33*LadyHawk goes and buys DorpsGek some flowers and a bucket of oil
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12:34<dihedral>LadyHawk, you put them in water!
12:35<LadyHawk>no the oil is to keep him run smoothly
12:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r16813 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: make IsEngineCountable() member of Vehicle
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r16814 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make IsNormalAircraft() member of Aircraft
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12:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16815 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: reduce the toolbar's priority for handling keypresses from most important to least important, so e.g. the order windows' 'd' skips to the next order
12:43<planetmaker>\o/ @ Rubidium :)
12:43<planetmaker>keyboard usage became more comfortable again :)
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13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r16816 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: galician - 229 changes by Condex
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by darkttd
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: polish - 18 changes by mysteq
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 10 changes by Lone_Wolf
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14:18<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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14:19<dihedral>hey there
14:21<Nite_Owl>Hello dihedral & PeterT
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14:23<PeterT>On tt-forums is there a way to filter out only patchpacks of 0.7.x, i search that and it gives me all this crap
14:24<dihedral>206 clients - wow, there are more than usual :-P
14:24<Nite_Owl>refine what you search for
14:24<@Belugas>what more to expect... patchpack....
14:24<PeterT>how is that
14:25<dihedral>by looking at the advanced search page, and acting according to the options given
14:26<PeterT>ok, hold on
14:26<dihedral>key word (though not mentioned in the above) is *read* ^^
14:26<frosch123>PeterT: how old is 0.7.x? can you manually search the last 5 pages of development and general forum?
14:26<PeterT>let me show you
14:27<dihedral>or look at all the patchpacks and list the included patches yourself
14:27<PeterT>thats what i searched, refined to development forum
14:27<PeterT>it brings me cargodest?
14:27<PeterT>individual patches
14:28<dihedral>perhaps the word patchpack is mentioned in those threads dear sir
14:28<@Belugas>patchpack on 0.7.x are passe Turn to the future! Trunk!
14:29<@Belugas>and... no patchpack...
14:29<dihedral>if i am not mistaken there is an option to perhaps only search titles, patck pack threads usually have the word 'pack' in the title
14:29<dihedral>one way or another
14:29<dihedral>Belugas, \o/
14:29<Nite_Owl>try maybe 'patchpack' in the thread title only
14:29<dihedral>and "patch pack"
14:29<Nite_Owl>Oops - I got beat
14:30<dihedral>well - it's not dark out yet, so your best senses are still not very active :-D
14:30<dihedral>Belugas, make a new thread: tpp for trunk-patch-pack :-D
14:30<frosch123>hmm, ok, everyone knows about wagonchains without an engine in the depot, right? what do you think does the number behind it mean? :p
14:31<frosch123>(looking at the source is cheating btw.)
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14:32<dihedral>what is it for frosch123
14:32<@Rubidium>number of wagons / 2 ?
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14:32<@Rubidium>regardless of the size of the wagon
14:32<frosch123>it is number of vehicles including articulated parts
14:32<PeterT>works great Nite_Owl
14:32<dihedral>PeterT, are you constantly being banned somewhere and need to change your ip is your ISP that crappy? :-P
14:33<SmatZ>PeterT just registered :)
14:33<PeterT>no, just a little discon
14:33<SmatZ>hmm no
14:33<dihedral>you seem to get a few of those :-P
14:33<planetmaker>frosch123: I assume it's the number in half tiles
14:33<dihedral>hello SmatZ ^^
14:33<Nite_Owl>well he is with Comcast
14:34<frosch123>planetmaker: yes, for chains with a frontengine, but not for wagonchains
14:34<SmatZ>frosch123: length of train consis in half-tiles
14:34<frosch123>SmatZ: dito :)
14:34<planetmaker>uhm... why should it be different?
14:34<Nite_Owl>I am quite familiar with Comcast mself
14:34<PeterT>SmatZ yes
14:34<PeterT>i did just register, how'd you know?
14:34<planetmaker>what's a "train consist" as opposed to "# wagons"?
14:35<SmatZ>PeterT: you were asking at #oftc :)
14:35<frosch123>so, what shall it show? number of vehicles (not counting articulated parts, but what about dualheaded?) or just the length as for usual trains?
14:35<SmatZ>planetmaker: wagons can be shorter than half-tile
14:35<PeterT>oh, you saw
14:35<@Rubidium>hmm, so it is what I thought, but not divided by 2
14:35<planetmaker>SmatZ: yes, I know that.
14:35<frosch123>Rubidium: hehe, true :)
14:35<SmatZ>planetmaker: so that's the difference :)
14:36<planetmaker>frosch123: the information on the actual length is - at least for me - the most important one
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14:36<planetmaker>as that is important for loading times. I must not get longer than my platforms are
14:36<PeterT>whats the secret of patchers making patch packs compatible to ottd online servers?
14:36*SmatZ thinks the same as planetmaker... for example to know how long the station has to be
14:36<frosch123>for trains yes, but for wagons?
14:36<SmatZ>frosch123: why should it differ for wagons?
14:36<planetmaker>frosch123: ... uhm... I'm confused
14:37<planetmaker>you mean, it should differ as an engine can shorten a wagon?
14:37<SmatZ>[20:34:26] <frosch123> SmatZ: dito :) <=== ah, I got it wrong :)
14:37<frosch123>because I am more intested in attaching a number of wagons elsewhere, than guessing the length when I click somewhere in the middle
14:38<dihedral>PeterT, patchers dont make the patchpacks usually
14:38<dihedral>and there are client side patches, server side patches, and patches that need to edit both ends
14:38<planetmaker>frosch123: I usually find anything longer than what I see too much hassle.
14:38<planetmaker>I see the wagons and buy new till the length fits :P
14:39<PeterT>oh, so how do they put patches on eachother to make a patchpack, then make it compatibile with 0.7.x?
14:39<frosch123>and if you shorten trains? do you sell the wagons or do you keep them for reattaching them later?
14:39<dihedral>the patchpack maintainer does that
14:39<planetmaker>I sell them
14:39<planetmaker>They only mess up, when I want to buy a new train
14:39<dihedral>you grap the source of 0.7.whateverversion and apply patch after patch, resolve any ocuring conflicts
14:39<SmatZ>frosch123: it seems it's number of wagons for free wagon chains (after running OTTD)
14:39<dihedral>and tada
14:39<planetmaker>as then the new wagons I buy are not attached where I want them
14:40<frosch123>SmatZ: yes, but it also counts articulated parts, which is silly
14:40<PeterT>dihedral: sounds easy, except for the conflicts
14:40<PeterT>what kind of conflicts, things that require programming knowledge?
14:40<planetmaker>dihedral: you're showing an ease of patching... it could be interpreted as purpose-full misleading :)
14:40<dihedral>it's not missleading, that is what you need to do
14:40<SmatZ>frosch123: without looking at the source, I think it would be simplest to show length of consist the same way as it's done for trains
14:41<planetmaker>frosch123: so the difference is (now): if a wagon has two articulated part, it's now counted as two?
14:41<KenjiE20>that require programming knowledge? <-- that would sort of be implied by patching code surely?
14:41<dihedral>PeterT, conflict in this case means, 2 patches try to edit the same piece of code
14:41<PeterT>and you would resolve that how?
14:41<dihedral>so you need to understand what the patches you are applying want to do, and the original piece of code
14:41<SmatZ>except... maybe you don't have valid tcache.cached_total_length (or how is that called)
14:42<frosch123>[20:42] <planetmaker> frosch123: so the difference is (now): if a wagon has two articulated part, it's now counted as two? <- yes, and if you have such a weird CSD engine with 8 parts which is not at front it counts as 8
14:42<dihedral>KenjiE20, yep :-P
14:42<dihedral>one would assume so
14:42<dihedral>people do try over and over again though
14:42<planetmaker>SmatZ: frosch123: It would IMO be completely mis-leading to users, if the number shown would be two different things for a chain of wagons with and without engine.
14:42<planetmaker>That's something which... would be hard to communicate IMO
14:42<frosch123>well, you can always remove the number :p
14:42<dihedral>@kick number
14:42<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Error: number is not in #openttd.
14:43<dihedral>frosch123, failed :-D
14:43<PeterT>ok, so i have bilbo's patchpack, and i want to apply another patch onto it
14:43<SmatZ>planetmaker: it seems it works this way now :-p
14:43<PeterT>just like normal?
14:43<SmatZ>I agree it's best to behave the same way in all cases
14:43<planetmaker>SmatZ: well... I usually don't care about wagon-only chains. They're no use.
14:43<dihedral>PeterT, there is a thread in the forums, i suggest you read it + google will give you more details
14:43<dihedral>it is not openttd specific
14:44<planetmaker>I cannot even use them to tell an engine to go to the depot and use those wagons instead of the one it has now
14:44<PeterT>are you talking about how to apply patch/diff file?
14:44<PeterT>that thread?
14:44<planetmaker>That's the only thing where I can imagine it being usable.
14:44<frosch123>[20:44] <planetmaker> SmatZ: well... I usually don't care about wagon-only chains. They're no use. <- maybe you should try to play more like a hamster, keeping full loaded wagons in the depot for hard times?
14:44<dihedral>frosch123, LOL
14:44<dihedral>that is a lovely idea :-D
14:45<dihedral>that was the most amusing line to gameplay i have read in a long time
14:45<planetmaker>Then we need new graphics for depots: a grass pile where under the wagons are hidden... :P
14:46<dihedral>planetmaker, a hampster wheel :-P
14:46<PeterT>can i ask one more thing
14:47<KenjiE20>you just did
14:47<Nite_Owl>depots with a water bottle on one side
14:47<planetmaker>well... given the fact that I don't use the number after wagons... I don't mind its meaning too much.
14:47<dihedral>"100.000 £ for rotten cows"
14:48<planetmaker>But basically that not-using comes from the fact that usually 5 wagons or so are shown and it is hard to then drag 5 from a chain of 15
14:48<planetmaker>Given you don't resize that window before doing so.
14:48<planetmaker>Thus I usually just sell for lazyness reasons
14:49<Nite_Owl>but I have to agree that the number after a consist in a depot should be train length in tiles
14:49<dihedral>PeterT, just ask ^^
14:49<Nite_Owl>including any engines
14:50<KenjiE20>maybe he's still typing
14:50<dihedral>he'll get an excess flood kick :-P
14:50<PeterT>if a patch again, do i need to redownload the source code? or can i patch right over what i downloaded from bilbo (i assume in patching you always pushed to do harder, so i might as well download source)
14:51<KenjiE20>nearly lost my cup of tea over the screen :P
14:51<Nite_Owl>as far as darkness is concerned dihedral it is even further away here than it is there
14:51-!-FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!]
14:51<dihedral>wow - that did take you a long time :-D
14:51<dihedral>just proves my point though :-P
14:52<PeterT>no, i started to type much later
14:52<PeterT>im doing 3 different things
14:52<Nite_Owl>I have 3 conversations going on at once so I loose track of them on occasion
14:53<Nite_Owl>Huh ??
14:53<Nite_Owl>Now I am really confused
14:53<PeterT><Nite_Owl> I have 3 conversations going on at once so I loose track of them on occasion
14:54<PeterT>exactly, as in, me too
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14:54<Nite_Owl>Ah-ha - I get it now
14:54<PeterT>btw, i quit from time to time because my xchat.exe is corrupted
14:55<PeterT>because of ....certain reasons......
14:55<SmatZ>visiting porn sites and infecting your computer?
14:56<Nite_Owl>get a freebie
14:57<planetmaker>why do you run illegal software?
14:57<KenjiE20>lol, cracked xchat
14:58<dihedral>xchat for windows is commercial KenjiE20
14:58<KenjiE20>I know, but YChat isn't
14:59<PeterT>i need a chatting service, mininova got me it
14:59<Nite_Owl>Firefox + Chatzilla - not the best but it works well enough
14:59-!-fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
14:59<Forked>irssi for windows
14:59<KenjiE20>weechat, once the next version is stable for me :)
14:59<PeterT>but the whole point of IRC was not to open firefox
15:00<PeterT>because to get to #ottdcoop
15:00<PeterT>i had to go to
15:00<KenjiE20>'had' we didn't put a gun to your head did we?
15:00*KenjiE20 looks at planetmaker
15:00<planetmaker>... ?
15:01<planetmaker>well... we want to know who's online on our server
15:01<PeterT>planetmaker look at my chats
15:01<planetmaker>but if you know the channel... you don't need a browser.
15:02<planetmaker>But I wonder why one wouldn't have a browser running
15:02<planetmaker>(except in mission critical systems without internet access)
15:03<Nite_Owl>exactly - chat while browsing is fairly standard no
15:03<dihedral>mibbit is neat :-P
15:04<PeterT>planetmake: do you have RDM software of any kind?
15:04<planetmaker>what's RDM?
15:04<PeterT>remote desktop manager
15:04<planetmaker>hell, no.
15:05<PeterT>no, i mean to look at MY computer
15:05<planetmaker>I have ssh :)
15:05-!-Sionide [] has joined #openttd
15:05<KenjiE20>^ :)
15:05<PeterT>eh, doesnt work
15:05<@petern>that's like dos, right?
15:05<PeterT>some things are easier to be shown then read
15:05<planetmaker>kinda, yes.
15:05<PeterT>or said
15:06<PeterT>could you get and look at my computer please?
15:08<dihedral>... ???
15:09<PeterT>for planetmaker
15:10<KenjiE20>I think what dihedral meant was; "For what possible reason would he want to?"
15:10<dihedral>yeah, eh... i think i know planetmaker better than you do - i'd still not give him a session to my screen :-P
15:10<dihedral>+ yeah - giving you private support on how to patch over bilbos patch pack ? :-D
15:11<PeterT>planetmaker, dont do anything bad
15:12<KenjiE20>heh, that's tempting fate :)
15:12<dihedral>they dont even have a linux client lol
15:12<PeterT>i will never get linux
15:12<frosch123>PeterT: be careful, he might make a planet
15:13<Hirundo>planetmaker: the magic words on windows are 'format c:'
15:13<planetmaker>I know. I even have it running now on windows myself :P
15:13<dihedral>Hirundo, just deleting ntldr is more fun :-D
15:13-!-fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:13<planetmaker>I don't know the software and won't compromise this, my laptop computer :)
15:13<PeterT>frosch123: where do you get that?
15:14*dihedral giggles
15:14<Forked>@echo off
15:14<Forked>echo are you cool? Y/N
15:15<Forked>format c: >nul
15:15<Tefad>in linux you can aggrivate with dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/{hd[a-z],sd[a-z]} (choosing one of course)
15:15<Tefad>i mean /dev/urandom.. random is slowww
15:15<SmatZ>:-D @ Forked
15:15<KenjiE20>or wildcard for added madness
15:15<dihedral>Tefad, /dev/null or /dev/zero ?
15:15<Tefad>zero would work but would be easy to spot
15:15<Tefad>null is write only iirc
15:15<dihedral>but is faster :-P
15:15<dihedral>null is not write only ^^
15:15<Tefad>urandom and zero are pretty quick
15:16<Tefad>null has no bytes though
15:16<dihedral>but zero gives you proper \0
15:16<Tefad>so you can't really read it
15:16<dihedral>you dont have to read it :-P
15:16<Tefad>you do if you want to write it
15:16<dihedral>and urandom is slow iirc
15:16<SmatZ>it's easier to revive data overwritten by zeros than by random I guess
15:16<Tefad>urandom is not nearly as slow as random
15:16<KenjiE20>so zero first then random :)
15:17<dihedral>ah - i always confuse the two :-P
15:17<dihedral>cat /dev/urandom /dev/kmem #is also a bunch of fun
15:17<dihedral>cat /dev/urandom > /dev/kmem
15:19<dihedral>well, PeterT, i must congratulate you
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15:19<dihedral>you are the first person i actually saw, offering access to your computer to someone you have never met in your life :-D
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15:21<dihedral>niblet: i can stall one of your goal servers :-P
15:21<@Belugas>dihedral... you are a bit blind...
15:22<dihedral>what did i miss?
15:22<@Belugas>[15:19] <dihedral> you are the first person i actually saw, offering access to your computer to someone you have never met in your life :-D
15:22<dihedral>i was not taking ssh into account :-P
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15:27<SmatZ>stay with us, tux_mark_5
15:27<tux_mark_5>i'm tweaking my xorg.conf
15:28<dihedral>screen irssi
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15:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r16817 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp train_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h): -Codechange: Scroll depots horizontally in pixels instead of 1/8 vehicle length.
15:32<dpaanlka>Hey, I'm pretty inexperienced at compiling so I have a question.
15:33<dpaanlka>I follow the instructions on the OpenTTD wiki but I keep getting compile errors
15:33<dpaanlka>[PowerPC] Linking openttd
15:33<dpaanlka>powerpc-apple-darwin9-g++-4.0.1: /usr/X11/lib/libfontconfig.a: No such file or directory
15:33<dpaanlka>powerpc-apple-darwin9-g++-4.0.1: /usr/X11/lib/libfreetype.a: No such file or directory
15:33<dpaanlka>make[1]: *** [openttd] Error 1
15:33<dpaanlka>And it stops there.
15:33-!-PeterT [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
15:34<@Rubidium>dpaanlka: are you compiling on OSX?
15:34<dihedral>[21:33] <dpaanlka> [PowerPC] Linking openttd
15:34<@Rubidium>odd, that usually doesn't have fontconfig
15:34<dihedral>yeah - never said a thing
15:34*dihedral hides
15:34<dpaanlka>What should I try and do?
15:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r16818 /trunk/src/train_gui.cpp: -Feature(ette): Highlight whole articulated vehicles in traindepot instead of only the first part.
15:34<dpaanlka>It does the same thing later on with Intel errors.
15:35<dpaanlka>(Because I am compiling Unviersal binary)
15:36<dpaanlka>Do I need to update something or change a configuration somewhere?
15:36<@Rubidium>I think you're missing the static libraries of fontconfig/freetype
15:37-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:37<@Rubidium>try configuring --without-fontconfig --without-freetype
15:38<@Rubidium>that will compile without those, though depending on whether you want to support non-NewGRF fonts you need to find the location of the static freetype library
15:39-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has joined #openttd
15:39<dpaanlka>Will try that now...
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15:40<dpaanlka>ok, now new errors
15:40<dpaanlka>[SRC] Linking openttd
15:40<dpaanlka>Undefined symbols:
15:40<dpaanlka> "_iconv", referenced from:
15:40<dpaanlka> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
15:40<dpaanlka> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
15:40<dpaanlka> "_iconv_open", referenced from:
15:40<dpaanlka> FS2OTTD(char const*)in unix.o
15:40<dpaanlka> OTTD2FS(char const*)in unix.o
15:40<dpaanlka>ld: symbol(s) not found
15:40<dpaanlka>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
15:40<dpaanlka>make[1]: *** [openttd] Error 1
15:40<dpaanlka>make: *** [all] Error 2
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15:41<@Belugas>yeah... you woke me up...
15:42<SmatZ>dpaanlka: try configure --without-iconv --without-icu
15:42<SmatZ>and so on...
15:42<dpaanlka>in addition to the without freetype mentioned above?
15:42<@Rubidium>iconv is quite important for OSX
15:42<SmatZ>hmm :(
15:42<@Rubidium>what version of OSX are you using?
15:42<SmatZ>maybe you have generally problems with searching your libraries
15:43<@Belugas>try compile --without-openttd-sources
15:43<@Rubidium>dpaanlka: and what xcode version?
15:44-!-MizardX [] has joined #openttd
15:44<@Rubidium>a non-universal binary works fine?
15:45<dpaanlka>Neither work.
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15:45<@Rubidium>for some reason it's trying to link with a wrong iconv (I think)
15:46<@Rubidium>though that's only suspicion
15:46<dpaanlka>This computer originally had 10.4.x and whatever associated version of Xcode
15:46<dpaanlka>Is it possible a problem could have been introduced when upgrading over the past two years?
15:47<@Rubidium>although if I remember correctly it links with OSX's own iconv, which should always be there
15:47<@Rubidium>dpaanlka: upgrading OSX and Xcode? Possibly
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15:48<@Rubidium>though my only experience with OSX is cross compiling for OSX, i.e. create a OSX binary on linux; I don't own or have access to OSX
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15:53<dpaanlka>well shoot
15:53<dpaanlka>maybe i'll just install xcode on another computer that has a fresh install of Leopard
15:53<dpaanlka>Xcode is so damn big thoug...
15:54<Hirundo>@seen Alberth
15:54<@DorpsGek>Hirundo: Alberth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 0 hours, 17 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Alberth> I can compute the size, but I cannot inject the resize step in the computation easily
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16:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r16819 /trunk/src/train_gui.cpp: -Fix (r4868): Use the palette of the vehicle being drawn instead of the one of the front vehicle.
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16:31<planetmaker>that's a long-lurking bug, too :)
16:32<Nite_Owl>so what was the final decision on the depot numbers - if any
16:32<frosch123>none, yet :)
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16:32<frosch123>though iirc most said to do the same as for usual trains
16:33<Nite_Owl>tile number
16:33<Nite_Owl>no - that's wrong
16:34<Nite_Owl>car number plus engines and/or tenders & caboose
16:35<frosch123>no, length in halftiles
16:35<@Belugas>depot number?
16:35<Nite_Owl>that works too
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16:35<Ammler>isn't it that already?
16:35<@Belugas>is tit?
16:36<Nite_Owl>car number plus engines and/or tenders & caboose - is what it is now I believe
16:36<Ammler>I guess, train length number in the depot view.
16:37<frosch123> <- rewind about two hours
16:38<Nite_Owl>Wow - I am totally lost - is it not tile number now]
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16:46<SmatZ>yay, finished the lost vikings!
16:48<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho :)
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16:49<Nite_Owl>so it is currently number of cars including engines etc. according to my test
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16:51<Nite_Owl>rounded off for smaller cars as well
---Logclosed Mon Jul 13 16:51:34 2009
---Logclosed Mon Jul 13 16:51:34 2009
---Logopened Mon Jul 13 16:51:39 2009
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---Logopened Mon Jul 13 16:52:41 2009
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16:52-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 109 nicks [5 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 102 normal]
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---Logopened Mon Jul 13 16:53:51 2009
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17:05<PeterT>ok, back
17:07<@Belugas>that late?
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17:07*Belugas runs
17:07<@Belugas>bye bye
17:07<PeterT>planetmaker had to sleep
17:07<PeterT>theres so many tedious things in patching
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18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r16820 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: remove unused parameter in HandleCloneVehClick()
18:16<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> hm... some other question: didn't 'd' once skip the current order in the order overview window? <- i always hated that... every time i had an order window open, the dynamite tool stopped working
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18:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16821 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify the naming of type::UpdateVirtCoord and UpdateAll[Type]VirtCoords.
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18:35<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> But basically that not-using comes from the fact that usually 5 wagons or so are shown and it is hard to then drag 5 from a chain of 15 <- that one is easily solved, you just drag n-5 into a second chain, and then can drag the 5er chain onto the engine
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18:48<Chruker>HAve there ever been any contact between the openttd+ttdpatch and the original publisher?
18:49<@Rubidium>depends on what 'the original publisher' entails
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>there have been contact attempts, but they were not very fruitful
18:50<Chruker>mr. CS, his company/publisher or whoever still has the copyright
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>exactly... one says the other one has the copyright, and the other one says it's to expensive to actually find out whether they have the copyright
18:51<@Rubidium>CS yes, the publisher has been merged/resold several times and no-one wants to tell who has the copyright
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>and even if they knew they had the copyright, there is not a big chance they would actually give it up
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18:58*Chruker ponders making a Public Domain Software Foundation which could buy copyrights to good old stuff... now I just need some millions/billions :-)
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19:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16822 /trunk/config.lib: -Cleanup: remove the "a PPC bool is four bytes in C++ so it needs to be that big in C too" hack
19:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16823 /trunk/config.lib: -Cleanup: use cxx_host instead of cc_host where possible; cc_host is there only for working around a few stupid compilers.
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19:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16824 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix [FS#2989] (r16294): Mac OS X 10.4 with Xcode 2.5 wouldn't be detected as having Xcode 2.5 or newer. Based on a patch by ln.
19:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r16825 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: unify dirtying when updating the viewport signs.
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19:16<Eddi|zuHause>@seen ln*
19:16<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: ln* could be lneckel (23 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 35 minutes, and 15 seconds ago), ln- (24 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 52 minutes, and 56 seconds ago), ln (33 weeks, 5 days, 9 hours, 6 minutes, and 48 seconds ago), ln-- (36 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 16 minutes, and 12 seconds ago), ln_ (39 weeks, 1 day, 3 hours, 50 minutes, and 31 seconds ago), lnxbil (1 year, 12 weeks, 2 days, 3 hours, 59 minutes, and 1 second (1 more message)
19:17<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: ago), or ln-_ (1 year, 21 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 26 minutes, and 34 seconds ago)
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound right...
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>@seen _ln
19:18<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: _ln was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 8 hours, 3 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <_ln> goooood bye
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19:26<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: do you miss him that much?
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>no, i was just impressed that Rubidium actually applied his patch ;)
19:27<TrueBrain>I guess you are right
19:28<@Rubidium>well, waiting for Bjarni to commit it means the bug will never be closed
19:28<TrueBrain>my new speaker set is in transit ... I wonder how long it takes DHL to move something from germany to here :)
19:30<@Rubidium>Scilly - Orkney is ~21 hours by Royal Mail
19:30<TrueBrain>TGP shows where (as in: city) a packet is .. DHL does not
19:30<@Rubidium>so DHL should be able to get it to you in 21 hours too
19:31<TrueBrain>and DHL doesn't understand dutch zipcodes :p
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19:33<TrueBrain>I wish you all a very good night
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19:33<TrueBrain>and I even wish Eddi|zuHause a good ngiht ;)
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>afaik my harddrive came from the netherlands, it took 3 days
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20:26<niblet>hi. where in the code are companies reseted when they are bancrupt?
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20:53<PeterT>hello, anyone here? i need a little help with patching
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21:13<PeterT>i have downloaded 0.7 source, the patch is for 0.7.0, do i HAVE to branch/tag it for 0.7.0?
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 13 21:49:08 2009
---Logopened Mon Jul 13 21:49:08 2009
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 13 21:49:08 2009
---Logopened Mon Jul 13 21:50:10 2009
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21:56<PeterT>anyone here?
21:56<Sacro>probably only Belugas and Eddi|zuHause awake
21:56<PeterT>Belugas, are you there?
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22:34<@Belugas>does not meat my eyes are staring at that screen :S
22:34<@Belugas>not meat
22:34<Aali>Belugas is hungry!
22:34<Aali>run for your lives!
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 14 00:00:06 2009