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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-02

---Logopened Sun Aug 02 00:00:10 2009
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02:21<planetmaker>DaleStan: compiling grfcodec: cc1plus: error: -MG may only be used with -M or -MM
02:22<planetmaker>for both, gcc 4.0.1 and gcc 4.5
02:23<planetmaker>on a mac
02:35<DaleStan>If you remove the -MG from Makefile:229, :233, and :252 (But not any of the *.d rules), does that fix things?
02:36<DaleStan>I think that should do the trick, but I don't have gcc 4 installed.
02:36<DaleStan>planetmaker: ^
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03:17<planetmaker>DaleStan: yes, removing it only in that line suffices
03:21<DaleStan>... And bother. I failed to audit my changes before committing them. Oh, well. It's not worth the hassle of backing them out.
03:22<planetmaker>hm... I have now (again) a problem with boost...
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03:23<planetmaker>I get "make: *** No rule to make target `boost/date_time/gregorian/gregorian_types.hpp', needed by `readinfo.o'. Stop."
03:24<planetmaker>but in Makefile.local "BOOST_INCLUDE = /Users/ingo/Download/boost_1_39_0"
03:24<DaleStan>rm readinfo.o.d && make
03:24<planetmaker>shouldn't make clean then do the trick?
03:25<planetmaker>well, but yes, it works :-)
03:25<DaleStan>clean should, but that'll delete all sorts of other things that don't need cleaning.
03:25<DaleStan>The new readinfo.o.d shouldn't have any reference to the boost headers.
03:25<planetmaker>no boost anymore?
03:26<planetmaker>he. make clean doesn't delete *.d
03:26<DaleStan>No, I just informed gcc that boost qualifies as a system header, and that system headers aren't to be mentioned.
03:26<planetmaker>^ that's why make cleanfailed
03:26<planetmaker>I guess
03:27<planetmaker>aeolusreloaded:~/ottd/grfdev/grfcodec ingo$ make clean
03:27<planetmaker>rm -rf *.o *.os *.bin grfcodec grfdiff grfmerge bundle bundles
03:27<DaleStan>Ah. Yes. I was getting annoyed always rebuilding *.o.d when switching between -mcygwin and -mno-cygwin.
03:28<planetmaker>deleting them sounds like a good idea, though :-)
03:28<DaleStan>mrproper will delete *.o.d
03:28<planetmaker>or maybe adding another target like proper... ok
03:29<DaleStan>It will also delete everything else except *.local that's not under version control. Or it should, anyway.
03:30<planetmaker>Just for curiosity: is that distinction between clean and mrproper some kind of standard or convention?
03:31<planetmaker>that said... I still have a lot of files which svn st shows as ? after mrproper
03:31<planetmaker>rm -f *.d .rev version.h grfmrg.c version.h.tmp <-- but I guess that suffices
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03:32<DaleStan>OK, "All files possibly generated by make that are not under version control, including ignored files"
03:32<DaleStan>I copied it from ttdpatch. So probably not.
03:32<planetmaker>ah :-)
03:33<planetmaker>btw, what about an additional target like "install"
03:33<planetmaker>which then installs the binaries in the proper path (set in Makefile.local)?
03:33<planetmaker>I could provide a patch which does that, even with some intelligence concerning paths on mac and linux.
03:34<planetmaker>windows is... difficult
03:34<planetmaker>there's no such thing as a default binary path there.
03:35<DaleStan>C:\windows is always in the path, AFAIK. But I can fiddle with that.
03:35<planetmaker>as every time I built the binaries I usually do a sudo cp <binary> /usr/local/bin
03:41<planetmaker>hm... my OS detection depends on - again - "uname -s".
03:42<planetmaker>I guess $(EXE) could be re-used, though
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03:49<planetmaker>DaleStan: <-- diff for grfcodec
03:50<planetmaker>DaleStan: <-- better that. I forgot to svn up. And the -MG is still in there
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03:54<DaleStan>Then there's the Cygwin and MinGW question: Do I install for Windows, or only for the hosted Linux work-like?
03:55<planetmaker>morning andythenorth
03:55<DaleStan>I guess I need to see if I can figure out how to access the host with MinGW.
03:56<andythenorth>I am working out a range for ship sizes.
03:56<andythenorth>Smallest useful size? 10t? 20t?
03:56<planetmaker>DaleStan: well... having it accessible in both is best, I guess.
03:56<planetmaker>but I'm using - when in my windows VM - the usual dos command line. And there I just have the usual windows paths (+ mingw / msys)
03:56<DaleStan>Except in the case where Cygwin builds a binary that won't run outside of Cygwin. That case is obvious.
03:57<planetmaker>having it thus in the cygwin / mingw binary path will do as it's then available under windows, too
03:57<planetmaker>ah, ok. I haven't used cygwin. So I didn't know
03:58<OsteHovel>I feel that Mingw is a better way than Cygwin becouse you need the cygwin dll's
03:58<planetmaker>andythenorth: I commited some changes to fish, so that it is sort-of configured
03:58<andythenorth>planetmaker: thanks
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03:58<planetmaker>andythenorth: you could just start to add code to header.pnfo and / or add additional pnfos in ids.pnfo
03:58<planetmaker>It might also need adjustment of the grf name etc
03:59<planetmaker>but that should be obvious
03:59<planetmaker>I just put in something which ... makes a little sense, but not too much ;-)
04:00<planetmaker>moin Rubidium
04:00<andythenorth>largest useful ship size? I am thinking 1200t
04:00<planetmaker>would be huge but for a starter sounds reasonable.
04:00<planetmaker>after all ships are large
04:00<@Rubidium>looks like DaleStan committed in time for the compile run
04:01<planetmaker>that's about now soon?
04:01<@Rubidium>05:37 <@DorpsGek> CompileFarm: grfcodec (r2167) completed.
04:01<@Rubidium>06:12 <@DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nforenum (r2168) completed.
04:01<@Rubidium>so ~4 hours ago
04:01<planetmaker>ah :-)
04:03<OsteHovel>Can someone be so nice for me and tell me the big diffrence between 0.7 and 0.7.2?
04:03<DaleStan>Have you read the changelog?
04:04<OsteHovel>Are it posible to read it withouth dling the packaes or source?
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04:04<OsteHovel>(im on a mobile connection right now and it aint realy fast...)
04:05<planetmaker>OsteHovel: yes, it is. Go to
04:05<@Rubidium>OsteHovel: you never noticed the "changelog" link on the download page?
04:07<OsteHovel>nope i havent, im sorry for asking a so STUPID question
04:08<OsteHovel>(and i forgot that i just can use "svn changelog" in console(im using linux)
04:08<@Rubidium>planetmaker: can you test whether and work with rosetta?
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04:10<planetmaker>both segfault
04:10<OsteHovel>;( thats a bad thing
04:11<@Rubidium>planetmaker: hmm, also with a simple '-h' ?
04:11<planetmaker>have to check. I just unpacked and double clicked the binary
04:11<planetmaker>renum, yes
04:12<@Rubidium>planetmaker: does work? (to rule out the compiler)
04:14<planetmaker>Rubidium: that openttd binary successfully loaded one of my savegames
04:15<@Rubidium>hmm, guess I need someone with a real PPC proc and OSX to test the grfcodec/nforenum binaries ;)
04:17<planetmaker>he :-P
04:17<Alberth>good morning
04:17<planetmaker>moin Alberth
04:18<Alberth>you replied and my desktop crashed :p
04:18<planetmaker>har har. Damn. Installation of root kit didn't go unnoticed.
04:23<@Rubidium>planetmaker: do the PPC nforenum/grfcodec binaries from OTTDcoop work for you?
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04:23<planetmaker>Rubidium: sure. I compiled them
04:23<@Rubidium>planetmaker: but they run in rosetta?
04:23<planetmaker>on this computer. But andythenorth told me that they don't work for him
04:24<planetmaker>What was it again how I could tell?
04:25<planetmaker>I mean... why should they, if I'm on an intel machine...
04:26<OsteHovel>If you need to test OSX binaries on a real PPC aint it posible to use a Emualtor?(If noone got a PPC machine)
04:26<@Rubidium>OsteHovel: OSX doesn't like emulators
04:26<planetmaker>OsteHovel: Rosetta IS the emulator... kind of
04:27<OsteHovel>You got a Intel MAC?
04:27<@Rubidium>so andythenorth ... you're using a PPC Mac?
04:27<andythenorth>^ no, intel
04:27<planetmaker>I guess it was 10.4 vs .10.5 issue with libraries
04:28<@Rubidium>where's Bjarni when you need him
04:28<planetmaker>dihedral: should have one
04:28<planetmaker>a G4 macbook wasn't available with intel processor
04:29<planetmaker>where's dihedral when one could need him? ;-)
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04:32<OsteHovel>Always when you need somebody they not there
04:33<planetmaker>andythenorth: but as you have another system... you might want to try nevertheless. Maybe both, Rubidium and mine, the latest ones.
04:34<andythenorth>I have Leopard 10.5.7 on a 2.5 intel core duo 2 - if that's any help??
04:34<planetmaker>at least I'd like to know whether the dmg might work for you which I produced yesterday
04:34<@Rubidium>planetmaker: talking about testing Intel or PPC binaries?
04:34<planetmaker>both :-)
04:35<planetmaker>In the case of your binaries: whether the ppc one works. In case of mine: whether bundle_dmg levies the library issues
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04:35<@Rubidium> <- PPC with gcc 4.2, <- PPC with gcc 4.0
04:36<@Rubidium> <- Intel with gcc 4.0
04:36<planetmaker> <-- the dmg I produced.
04:41<OsteHovel>Do someone here know how to test IPv6 connectivity becouse i got a server connected directly to internet so it got both a IPv4 and IPv6 adress, how can i test IPv6?
04:41<@Rubidium>OsteHovel: step 1) download openttd-trunk
04:41<OsteHovel>thats not hard
04:42<@Rubidium>step 2) open the multiplayer window and see if "AutoNightly IPv6 Server / EoD" is there
04:42<OsteHovel>ok ;D
04:42<@Rubidium>or whether you see an unresolved IPv6 address in the list
04:44<@Rubidium>(I can't connect to it at the moment so for me it shows up as an unresolved IPv6 address)
04:45<@Rubidium>oh, another thing is: go to If the logo (the $) says IPv6 next to is you're using IPv6
04:45<@Rubidium>or ping6
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04:56<OsteHovel>I diddent work ;( with ping6
04:57<@Rubidium>then you're likely not using IPv6
04:57<OsteHovel>that was i touth too
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05:12<OsteHovel>I got it worrking
05:12<OsteHovel>Using Hurricane Electric's free IPv6 Tunneling
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05:17<@Rubidium>salut Yexo
05:17<Yexo>morning Rubidium
05:17<planetmaker>moin Yexo
05:19<Yexo>hi planetmaker
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05:38<planetmaker>error 404 when I tried to log in into translator
05:39<planetmaker>or rather when I entered my credentials, the next page showing was the 404
05:40<planetmaker>but obviously I entered the correct credentials as the website shows me as logged in and after going to development and then clicking on webtranslator, I don't need to log in
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05:46<TrueBrain>[00:39] <Eddi|zuHause> a friend had an article about reviving graphics cards by putting them into the oven at 100°C for 30 minutes, could that work with mainboards, too? <- omg ... he didn't really say that, did he? :s :p :p
05:46<TrueBrain>planetmaker: known, browser fucking up redirecting .. shit happens :)
05:46<planetmaker>he... ok. I added a FS entry right this moment
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06:24<frosch123>hmm, fireworks at 12:25 :s
06:24<@Rubidium>yeah, why not?
06:24<@Rubidium>otherwise it wakes the elderly
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06:41<TrueBrain>ARGH! Why does my speaker set pickup a radio station
06:41<TrueBrain>why :(
06:41<TrueBrain>it is fucking annoying
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06:43<LadyHawk>i had that in holland
06:43<LadyHawk>like very quiet music going through your speakers for no reason
06:43<TrueBrain>the reason why is very simple
06:43<TrueBrain>the soluton ... much less
06:44<TrueBrain>I wish they would stop doing analog transmissions :p
06:44<LadyHawk>ah =P
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06:51<valhallasw>TrueBrain: increase the output volume on your computer and decrease it on your speaker set? :P
06:52<TrueBrain>valhallasw: it doesn't depend on the volume of my amp
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06:52<TrueBrain>it runs on its own power :p Stupid airwaves :p
06:52<valhallasw>oh, the pickup happens in the speaker cables?
06:53<valhallasw>sounds reasonable as the input cables are probably shielded :P
06:53<TrueBrain>input is fiber :p
06:54<valhallasw>right :P
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06:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17031 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (airports.pcx flags.pcx openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: warnings about pure white sprites; make them 'unpure' white (FCFCFC)
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07:27<TrueBrain>there is a fly on my screen - oh no, it is my mouse
07:30<frosch123>never smash something on your screen
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07:33<TrueBrain>OsteHovel: can you make up your mind? Staying or not? :)
07:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17032 /extra/ottd_grf/ (COPYING split/openttd.nfo): [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: make it more clear how the GRFs are licensed (if it would be downloaded as something separate)
07:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17033 /extra/ottd_grf/ (Makefile split/shore.nfo):
07:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: grfcodec warning about number of sprites (0 instead of X) by using nforenum
07:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: nforenum warning about wrong number of sprites for shores; it's a special-special case, so disable the warning
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07:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17034 /trunk/bin/data/ (5 files): -Update: openttd[dw].grf from ottd grf.
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08:06<TrueBrain>@kban OsteHovel 60 please come back if you have the intentions to stay; thank you.
08:06-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
08:06-!-OsteHovel was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [please come back if you have the intentions to stay; thank you.]
08:07-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
08:11<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: WT3.1 is going to have support for adding cases, right?
08:11<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I sure hope so :)
08:11<TrueBrain>oh, I forgot to tell you
08:11<TrueBrain>I redirected a user to you to add him a case
08:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17035 /trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt: -Add: case to Turkish
08:12<@Rubidium>didn't know you redirected him ;)
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08:12<TrueBrain>now you do ;)
08:12<OsteHovel^PDA>Ye i found out the client was useless
08:12<OsteHovel^PDA>using another one now
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08:13<TrueBrain>from 1:09 to 0:44
08:14<TrueBrain>it is getting into an acceptable range, my import :)
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08:17<OsteHovel^PDA>I hope i diddent cause too much damage
08:19<valhallasw>nah, just a dozen joins/parts :p
08:19<valhallasw>parts and/or quits
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08:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r17036 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Split price bases from economy.cpp to table/pricebase.h.
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08:37<OsteHovel^Atom>What IRC clients do you guys use? (I use Xchat on windows & Linux, and PocketIRC on Windows Mobile)
08:41<xmakina>OsteHovel^Atom: mIRC
08:41<TrueBrain>why would one even want to use IRC on its mobile ..
08:41<OsteHovel^Atom>Ooo long time since i update last time, that was back in march
08:42<OsteHovel^Atom>(when you have a pda with keyboard and unlimited data plan you need have something to do sometimes)
08:42<TrueBrain>it is the most useless invention, as your connection drops more often than apples fall from a tree
08:42<OsteHovel^Atom>That depend on what client you use
08:42<OsteHovel^Atom>I was testing out Talkonaut with XMPP gateway IRC ;P
08:42<OsteHovel^Atom>and that dident whent so good
08:43<TrueBrain>next time, test on some other channel, and don't bug us with your endless joins and leaves
08:43<OsteHovel^Atom>it will not be a nexttime
08:43<OsteHovel^Atom>the problem what that i coudent see that i even was leaving/joining this channel it was like i was into it all the time
08:44<OsteHovel^Atom>But it was useless anyway so, im back to the good old PocketIRC that never reconnects if it loses its connection but it does not loose its connection often either(only when your battery runs out))
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08:45<OsteHovel^Atom>(compiinging the newest trunk of svn on my sucky laptop that has a 1.6 ghz cpu, and it takes AGES...)
08:45<OsteHovel^Atom>(but its worth it becouse openttd is SOO GOOD)
08:47<OsteHovel^Atom>Do the donated cash only go to hold the servers up and running or do some of it goes to the developer of this GOOD game?
08:48<TrueBrain>for now it is only to keep our services up and running
08:48<planetmaker>OsteHovel^Atom, xchat works here. Stable 24/7
08:48<planetmaker>way more stable than firefox.
08:48<OsteHovel^Atom>;D xchat has never crashed for me ;D
08:48<planetmaker>Or kde itself actually
08:48<OsteHovel^Atom>way more stable the opera too
08:49<OsteHovel^Atom>gonna donate some of the cash i got left
08:51<TrueBrain>much appreciated :)
08:51<OsteHovel^Atom>(doante finished)
08:52<planetmaker>I tried twice... I don't use paypal and they don't accept a credit card without registering at that damned company
08:52<planetmaker>And I'll rather go to hell than register with paypal.
08:53<OsteHovel^Atom>i use paypal and i got my credit card registered (i know its a bad company but it works)
08:53<OsteHovel^Atom>tried Bank transfer ?
08:53<planetmaker>I won't register there. Least with my credit card.
08:53<planetmaker>Owen tried to always talk me into using that...
08:53<planetmaker>... insisting that it works without paypal account. But I didn't figure.
08:54<xmakina>planetmaker - they can't recklessly steal your money - the most evil thing they do is freeze accounts linked to stolen credit cards
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08:54<OsteHovel^Atom>what country do you live in?
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08:54<planetmaker>xmakina, I don't care what they do. If I'm not a customer of them, they cannot do anything.
08:54<OsteHovel^Atom>i did think they accepted withouth registered
08:55<planetmaker>I just read enought that I know that I don't want business of any kind with them.
08:55<OsteHovel^Atom>i only got my credit card(not debet) registered there
08:55<OsteHovel^Atom>so i can get my money back if they even wanna to try to scam me
08:55<planetmaker>OsteHovel^Atom, maybe it's a shortcoming on my part. But then I just didn't figure out how.
08:55<OsteHovel^Atom>i will try to read on their complicated webpae
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08:57<planetmaker>on the other hand, my bank is bad, too: I cannot do international money transfer online :-(
08:57<planetmaker>I need to go there in person.
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08:57<OsteHovel^Atom>And for registering your credit card at paypal also takes time
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08:59<OsteHovel^Atom>its hopeless to find any information on their page
09:01<OsteHovel^Atom>planetmaker: If you nice i found this picture in the screenshots part of the openttd page and since you live in DE i touth you coud transelate the 2 last lines at the bottom right of the picture:
09:02<OsteHovel^Atom>Do it says that openttd has problems with 64-bit?
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09:03<TrueBrain>OsteHovel^Atom: you did notice that the article is about 0.3.4, right?
09:03<OsteHovel^Atom>ye i did
09:03<OsteHovel^Atom>i found out after i said that in the chat
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>and it says the problems are solved
09:04<OsteHovel^Atom>ok ;D
09:05<OsteHovel^Atom>hmm its not so long until r20000 ;D
09:06<OsteHovel^Atom>hmm im gonna try if i can get openttd to join the ipv6 server that woud have been cool ;D
09:06<OsteHovel^Atom>for once in my life use ipv6 for something usefull
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>you could wait 10 years until everybody and his mom uses ipv6 ;)
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09:17<Ammler>I don't get it, why ipv6 isn't downwards compatible
09:17<TrueBrain>it is
09:17<Ammler>oh, hmm, someone said, you can only join ipv6 servers with ipv6
09:18<TrueBrain>but what has that to do with downwards compatible? :)
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09:18<TrueBrain>I mean .. you can run 32bit apps on a 64bit system, but on a 32bit system you can't run 64bit apps
09:18<TrueBrain>does this mean it is not downward compatbile?
09:19<Ammler>yes, this is.
09:19<Ammler>so translated it would mean, you can join ipv4 servers with ipv6
09:19<TrueBrain>FFFF::<ipv4> is a valid IPv6
09:20<TrueBrain>(it depends heavily on your network if you can in fact reach the IPv4, but that is another story I guess
09:20<Ammler>[15:18] <TrueBrain> yup <- so this should be no ;-)
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09:20<TrueBrain>no, I agreed with your statement that you can only join IPv6 servers over an IPv6 connection
09:21<TrueBrain>so it should be 'yup', and I know this because I said 'yup'
09:21<Ammler>it isn't mine :-)
09:22<Ammler>so you need for a time both or some ipv6->ipv4 proxies?
09:22<OwenS><3 Sun
09:22<OwenS>Solaris rm refuses to do rm -rf /
09:23<Ammler>and why is that good?
09:23-!-goodger_ is now known as goodger
09:23<Sacro>iirc you can tell linux not t o
09:23<OwenS>Ammler: Give me one valid reason do do an rm -rf /?
09:24<@Rubidium>OwenS: when there are multiple rogue directories of one character in the root
09:24<Ammler>dunno, but if I want do it, why should it refuse?
09:24-!-bb10 [] has joined #openttd
09:25<OwenS>Because people rarely intend to do it but scripts often do rm -rf $var/$var2, then end up without var and var2 defined
09:26<Alberth>'set -u' to protect against that in bash :)
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09:28<Alberth>is there a simple way to get the AI debug window opened?
09:28<TrueBrain>click on the menu :p
09:28<Ammler>start without ai
09:28<Yexo>start an AI with empty start function
09:29<Yexo>or load a savegame with such an AI
09:29<@Rubidium>remove all AIs and start one
09:29<Alberth>price for the best solution goes to Ammler and Rubidium :)
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09:31<@Rubidium>hmm, I think I've added the 1905 dependencies in the wrong order :(
09:32-!-Svish|eee [~Svish@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:33<Alberth>I can solve them the other way around :)
09:34<OsteHovel^Atom>a good benchmarking tool of cpu is infact to compile openttd ;D
09:35<@Rubidium>there, reversed the dependencies ;)
09:35<Alberth>you should take something, like KDE or gcc :p
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09:37<@Rubidium>grr... my laptop doesn't like water cooling... stupid rain!
09:37<LadyHawk>oh wait, that's not funny
09:37<TrueBrain>LadyHawk: yes it is
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09:48<OsteHovel^Atom>Hmm do anyone of you know how to force SDl to use a spesific output mode?
09:49<@Rubidium>using environment variables
09:49<OsteHovel^Atom>no worries i found out
09:51<TrueBrain>you have the tendancy to ask a question and have a second later the answer .. maybe you should delay the asking part
09:51<OsteHovel^Atom>or maybe not ask at all and try to ask google insted
09:51<@Rubidium>that's still asking
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09:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r17037 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp economy_type.h table/pricebase.h): -Fix (r17036): 'Polygonal Capabilities' are a core feature of windows.
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09:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17038 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix (r17015): don't download the stuff we already have
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10:02<OsteHovel^Atom>Its sooo cool
10:02<OsteHovel^Atom>ive joined the IPv6 server ;D
10:04<OsteHovel^Atom>What compiler do you use to make the MAC binaries for OpenTTD?
10:10<OwenS>Is there any choice besides GCC and LLVM-GCC? :p
10:11<@Rubidium>yes, build your own compiler
10:13<OwenS>I suppose maybe TCC? :p
10:16<OwenS>Now you have made me curious as to whether OpenTTD builds with Open64...
10:17<@Rubidium>that's very well untested
10:18<OwenS>AMD Open64, SunCC... I could have a field day of testing with weird compilers :p
10:22<OsteHovel^Atom>someone tested icc (intels compiler)?
10:22<planetmaker>someone did.
10:22<planetmaker>The commit log tells you who :-P
10:26<OsteHovel^Atom>ooo look what i found:
10:26<OsteHovel^Atom>r16298 | rubidium | 2009-05-13 19:46:41 +0200 (on., 13 mai 2009) | 2 lines
10:26<OsteHovel^Atom>-Change: silence some pointless/unsolveable ICC warnings/remarks (multicharacter character literal potential unportable/autovectorised this loop)
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10:28<@Rubidium>and it warns again; can't be bothered to fix it though
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10:31<OsteHovel^Atom>you use ICC as default?
10:33<@Rubidium>though over night I run a script that updates gcc-trunk, gcc-4.4, gcc-lto, llvm and after that compiles a few repositories with those compilers
10:45-!-Svish|eee [~Svish@] has joined #openttd
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10:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17039 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r16988): segfault when removing rail with waypoint remover and vice versa
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11:14<OwenS>Hallelujah for spare routers
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11:29<OwenS>Hallelujah for spare routers, but expect some funny business? O_o
11:30<OwenS>"DownStream Connection Speed 224 kbps" Though I wasn't expecting *that* kind of funny business
11:30<TrueBrain>poor OwenS
11:30<OwenS>I think my connection issues may be explained by the fact that my BT router just died however
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11:57<OsteHovel^Atom>You use BlueTooth for internet?
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly certain he meant "British Telecom"
12:00<OsteHovel^Atom>Im so stupid sometimes
12:00<TrueBrain>I couldn't have said it better myself
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12:04<Ammler>and you aren't alone :-)
12:05<TrueBrain>Ammler: you feel yourself included in that group of stupid people? :)
12:05<Ammler>yes, very much.
12:05<TrueBrain>you are silly
12:06<Ammler>well "sometimes"
12:06<TrueBrain>you sometimes feel yourself included
12:06<TrueBrain>but other times you don't?
12:06<TrueBrain>you can't play both ways
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>so... the HDD works again, but the question is for how long?
12:08<TrueBrain>5 minutes, 3 seconds and 12 msec
12:08<TrueBrain>give or take
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>there are 425GB on there, and i only have 290GB free on the other devices
12:09<TrueBrain>so time to buy a new HD :p
12:09<TrueBrain>can I suggest a WD 1 TB 32mb cache?
12:09<TrueBrain>external, if you prefer
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>i did that already
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>half a year ago
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>it's already full ;)
12:10<OwenS>TrueBrain: WD? I agree.
12:10<OwenS>By choice I'll always pick WD hard disks
12:10<TrueBrain>all ours servers run on WD .. rarely any problems :)
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>i agree...
12:11<OwenS>I have a many year old 16GB WD here, thats still working fine
12:11<TrueBrain>(and we use the RAID III, so you can expect a bit of quality I guess ;))
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>i'll never buy anything else again
12:11<OwenS>Seagate 80GB has died on me
12:11<Ammler>RAID III doesn't need quality ;-)
12:11<TrueBrain>Ammler: this being one of those moments you feel included, I guess?
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>i have 80MB WD here, but i don't know if it still works ;)
12:12<Ammler>well, you need good disks, if you don't use RAID
12:12<OwenS>You want good disks with RAID anyway
12:12<TrueBrain>Ammler: LOL! Yeah ... maybe for your workstation; besides that, it is a typo of disk WD produces
12:12<Ammler>but that isn't a sign of quality
12:12<TrueBrain>typo = type
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>so... i have about 150GB in unconverted videos and 150GB in uncut videos... i really need get them done...
12:13<TrueBrain>those to be exact
12:13<TrueBrain>they have a MUCH higher MMTF
12:13<TrueBrain>sigh, typing is so hard today
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>must be the weather
12:14<OwenS>I love how all hard disk pictures are taken with the cover off
12:14<TrueBrain>last time I opened a HD here to show my roommates how it looked
12:15<TrueBrain>they were more than suprised
12:15<Ammler>my private server runs without RAID since aroud 5 years from time to time, I add a a disk to the LVM
12:15<TrueBrain>Ammler: not using RAID for servers is not an option
12:16<TrueBrain>that is stupid, in a category I don't even want to start talking about :)
12:16*TrueBrain picks up to phone and calls a random customer: "yes, sorry sir, all your data was lost because one disk crashed. Yes, we do have backups, but they are 48 hours old. I hope it is not a problem that you lost 150 very important emails and all your customer orders of the last 48 hours? No? Pfew. Well, good day"
12:16<OwenS>Anyone else wonder what the profit model is for Gravatar? :p
12:16<Ammler>well, the server is just an even older desktop
12:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17040 /trunk/src/lang/ (45 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3081]: inconsistency between signs of stations and waypoints
12:17<TrueBrain>OwenS: none, I guess?
12:17<Ammler>my backup for those data is the Internet ;-)
12:17<OwenS>TrueBrain: I guess the same :p
12:17<KenjiE20>OwenS: not really, it obviously comes off the back or moveabletype's revenue
12:18<@Rubidium>the "1) X, 2) ???, 3) profit"-model
12:18<TrueBrain>obviously, yes
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>i have "backup" as well, but not for the uncut and unconverted recordings
12:18<OwenS>KenjiE20: You mean Automaitc, aka
12:18<KenjiE20>yea them
12:18<KenjiE20>whichever, they pretty closely tied now
12:19<OwenS>Yes. But it's still entirely a loss maker!
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>what's a gravatar and a moveabletype?
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like i'm getting old and these young people talk about their version of a "computer" (who needs this modern shit anyways?)
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>apparently, my great-grandmother was afraid of washing machines
12:21<OwenS>Movable Type: 1 of the first blogging platforms
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12:22<Eddi|zuHause>that's what i'm telling... i'm afraid of blogs :p
12:22*KenjiE20 doesn't blog on his blog :P
12:23<KenjiE20>blog is a daft phrase anyway, it's just reverse chornological posts, which is pretty much every site ever
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, it needs a fancy 2.0 name
12:24*KenjiE20 wanders back to poking review text into readable-ness
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>else it isn't hip
12:26<OwenS>Out of curiosity... Anyone know of a Linux tool which will listen for RIP advertisements and add them to it's routing table? :p
12:26<andythenorth>grr cargo refits
12:26<@Rubidium>why did they use that TLA?
12:29<andythenorth>how can I ensure a vehicle is refittable to *all* cargos?
12:29<andythenorth>I have FF FF for refittable cargo classes
12:30<andythenorth>I have 00 00 for non-refittable classes
12:30<andythenorth>I have 00 00 00 00 for cargo types available for refitting
12:30<andythenorth>I have FF for cargo type
12:30<andythenorth>This seems to work, but I have no quick way of proving it
12:30<andythenorth>(for all sets that define cargos)
12:31<DaleStan>That works for all cargos that are a member of at least one class.
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12:31<DaleStan>Including Pikka's dummy "regearing" cargo.
12:32<andythenorth>I have a translation table in this set btw
12:33<Ammler>how long do you keep nightly binaries?
12:35<DaleStan>The translation table does not affect the class-based-refit properties, and since the bitmask makes no changes, any affects the translation table has on it are moot.
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12:36<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: a month or so...
12:36<andythenorth>DaleStan: ok thanks. FF 03 seems to exclude Pikka's Gear Ratio cargo. Pikka has explained all of this to me at least once before, but I simply find refitting baroque :|
12:36<Ammler>more so :-) it looks like the cleanup is a manual taks
12:37<Ammler>or 5 monts
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12:39<andythenorth>'nother dumb nfo question - when engine pool is active, how does a newgrf disable default TTD vehicles?
12:40<andythenorth>^^ I never wanted that for HEQS. Ships are different
12:40<DaleStan>I think it doesn't. Not directly, anyway.
12:40<andythenorth>eGRVTS 'does' but maybe not intentionally.
12:41<Ammler>it does, afaik, but you can enable them again
12:41<@Rubidium>just replace all ships
12:41-!-DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:41<@Rubidium>(I think)
12:41<@Rubidium>otherwise you've got to ask petern
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12:41<Ammler>isn't that the reason for the default engine grf
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12:42<andythenorth>Rubidium: yup if I use ID 01 in my grf, default ship 01 goes that'll do it.
12:45<frosch123>just zero the climate property for all vehicles
12:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17041 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3083] (r14735): graphical glitch with graph key
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12:51<andythenorth>Should modern cargo ships (small coasters and riverboats) be refittable to passengers?
12:52<andythenorth>i.e. what do you guys think?
12:57<Brianetta>I think they should be refittable to restaurants
12:58<planetmaker>andythenorth, why not?
12:58<planetmaker>after all, even the conversion from, say, piece goods to bulk is a similar expensive endeavour
12:59<andythenorth>planetmaker: ok I'll run with it. Wonder if I need to adjust the capacity though. 1200 passengers on a coaster is a lot...even for people smugglers :0
13:00<planetmaker>andythenorth, well. A refit can change capacity, can't it?
13:00<andythenorth>believe so
13:00<planetmaker>I'd go with 1/3 or so.
13:00<planetmaker>or even less.
13:00<andythenorth>given a choice of default cargos, any preference? Coal is the usual
13:01<@Rubidium>yeah, stacking of passengers isn't as good as stacking coal
13:01<@Rubidium>usually only ~2 meter of people can be stacked
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13:05<andythenorth>'Barge Tow' or 'Barge Train' ?? - this is for tug + n barges
13:05<andythenorth>Actually, I think 'Tow Boat' is my favourite
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>i think there should be "water types" like "rail types", so ocean liners couldn't go through rivers or regular channels, and riverboats would have reduced stability on ocean
13:12<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: there are speed properties for canals / open ocean
13:13<andythenorth>if we're inventing new types, I think we could make more use of road types ;)
13:13*KenjiE20 pushes the publish button, that'll do for that review I think
13:13<andythenorth>meanwhile, I can limit the speed of canal boats at sea, and vice versa
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>i presume the introduction of road types does not need to be discussed ;)
13:14<andythenorth>ach, unpopular question. I'm *pretty* certain that there is still a limit of 15 ships in current trunk, despite having been told otherwise on the forums
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13:14<andythenorth>evidence is that I can't get more than 15 ships to appear in buy menu
13:15<andythenorth>not complaining, just saying the documentation might be out of sync with the implementation
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13:15<Eddi|zuHause>make a bug report and give a sample grf
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>that's the general rule with grf errors, the authors need to tell about them, the developers can't test every corner case
13:18<andythenorth>still testing, might be something I've done
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13:21<frosch123>there is no such ship limit anymore
13:22<frosch123>and afaik the canal/ocean speed fraction is ttdp only
13:24<andythenorth>^^ 'ship limit' non-existent. My fail.
13:24<andythenorth>I can live without the ocean / canal business
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13:36<bb10>Will we be able to install openttd with opengfx straight from the installer? :P
13:37<@Rubidium>if opengfx is complete enough that might eventually become reality
13:37<@Rubidium>although that depends on what installer you're talking about
13:37<Sacro>ho hum
13:37<bb10>the openttd installer
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13:39<@Rubidium>bb10: there are installers (to varying degrees) for different platforms
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13:40<@Rubidium>e.g. for Debian and Gentoo
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13:40<@Rubidium>and depending on how you install with those systems it might or might not install opengfx
13:40<bb10>win32 and win64 :P
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13:41<keoz>on gentoo, I could install opengfx without problems
13:41<@Rubidium>that installer might get the ability to download OpenGFX, but likely not before it's finished
13:42<keoz>(but using the built-in downloader of openttd)
13:42<@Rubidium>keoz: it's in emerge?
13:42<keoz>openttd can be installed via emerge, but opengfx has to be installed manually
13:43<keoz>(i mean, I can do it via the built-in resources downloader)
13:43<@Rubidium>keoz: that isn't available if you don't have a base graphics set, like the original graphics or OpenGFX
13:44<@Rubidium>and what bb10 asked was "install openttd with opengfx straight from the installer", not "install openttd with the installer and then manually download opengfx and put it in the right place"
13:45<keoz>oh, sorry, didn't read the entire discussion
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17042 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 35 changes by arnaullv
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 3 changes by silentStatic
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 30 changes by agenthh
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frisian - 133 changes by huddekul
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 6 changes by Roujin
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13:58<TrueBrain># stop this beat is killing me
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>missing interpunctation
13:59<TrueBrain>there are a lot of things missing here
14:00<@Rubidium>yup, my cookie for you has gone missing
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>the word you seek is "eaten" :)
14:00<@Rubidium>I am not aware that it has been eaten
14:02<TrueBrain>then where is it?!
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>maybe not by yourself?
14:03<@Rubidium>it ascended into a higher plane of existence
14:03<TrueBrain>poor thing
14:03<TrueBrain>I feel sad for it
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14:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17043 /trunk/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: -Change [NoAI]: Load the API before compiling an AI script so AIs can subclass API classes and use API constants as part of their own constants
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14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17044 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Codechange: ai windows use nested widget tree.
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15:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r17045 /trunk/src/train_gui.cpp: -Fix (r16867) [FS#3084]: Also 'p's can be important.
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15:18<andythenorth>nfo...have coded a bunch of ships that will go to a dock, but won't load cargo (which is available). Can't see anything obviously wrong with my code. Help?!
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>set loading rate to 0?
15:23<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: well I've just set loading rate 20, and that seems to solve the problem. I thought prop 07 would default to 10 for ships? Anyway, that seems to be the fix.
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, about defaults you have to discuss with the devs and the specs ;)
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, once that was a problem with wagon overrides where the defaults were set to 0 instead of that of the original wagon
15:25<andythenorth>well it solved it thanks ;)
15:28<frosch123>andythenorth: if you use ids above the default (i.e. more than 14?), you have to set _all_ properites
15:28<andythenorth>interesting thanks, that's useful
15:28<frosch123>no defaults :)
15:29<andythenorth>new ships!!
15:29<andythenorth>'fraid they are not graphically very interesting :D
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15:34<TrueBrain># everytime we touch
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15:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r17046 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix (r11411) [FS#3085]: Trigger house trigger 02 only for the north tile.
15:49<TrueBrain>but the sun on the south is so much more pretty!
15:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r17047 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix: Mark house tiles dirty when triggers were triggered.
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16:10<Eddi|zuHause>not during summer
16:11<andythenorth>Just *how* many passengers should a large passenger steamer carry? 1200? 1500?
16:11<andythenorth>Real life says up to about 4,000
16:11<TrueBrain>why *how*"
16:11<TrueBrain>why "*how*"?
16:12<andythenorth>good question. no idea, seemed right
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>pherhaps he wanted the pattern to also match "showtime"
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>oh how i hate everything today...
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16:17<TrueBrain>./usr/lib64/python2.5/site-packages/django/db/backends/mysql/ Warning: Field 'revision' doesn't have a default value
16:17<TrueBrain>could it at least tell me WHICH table? :(
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16:21<Eddi|zuHause>no, error messages are not supposed to be readable
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16:52<Eddi|zuHause>so... now i have 100GB that i don't know where to put... that is exactly the same as last time i wanted to send in the HD
17:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17048 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Airport toolbar and airport builder window use nested widgets.
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17:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17049 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tile.hpp: -Fix [NoAI]: documentation of AITile::LevelTiles was wrong
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17:15<TrueBrain>WT3.1 is getting shape :) Subversion import seems finished :)
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17:17<Yexo>good night
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause>how much would it take to teach wt3.1 the civ4 file format?
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>(aka xml)
17:22<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: a simple module, I say
17:22<TrueBrain>I prepared the system for it (without really knowing the format, but okay)
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17:36<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I guess some day soon you should make a ticket at with details on the format
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17:45<Xaroth>TrueBrain: Feature idea: make it 'guess' the format design based on a 'sample' format?
17:47<TrueBrain>why would that be useful?
17:47<TrueBrain>would there ever be a case you don't know the format?
17:47<TrueBrain>"oh, I don't know, is this a gettext format, or openttd format"? :p :)
17:48<Xaroth>no, but why make a module if the system can do that for you?
17:48<TrueBrain>'make a module'?
17:48<Xaroth>TrueBrain]: Eddi|zuHause: a simple module, I say
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17:49<TrueBrain>so you want to make a plugin that 'guesses' what format the civ4 stuff comes in?
17:49<Xaroth>no, not a plugin, the system by default
17:49<TrueBrain>yeah .. lets make a system that selfadjust magicly given a few settings
17:49<TrueBrain>Xaroth: we are not that far in AI design :)
17:49<Xaroth>it's not AI design
17:49<TrueBrain>sorry Xaroth, no system can 'guess' what format OpenTTD is, without very explicit programming it
17:49<TrueBrain>neither for Gettext
17:50<TrueBrain>neither for civ4
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>let's make it automatically parse a video of me reading the texts!
17:50<TrueBrain>you might be able to make something that autosenses XML .. but I doubt that would work
17:50*Xaroth shrugs
17:50<TrueBrain>too many variables
17:50<@Rubidium>and translate flawlessly to all thousands of languages known to the ISO
17:50<TrueBrain>it is like making something that can 'guess' the format of a programming language
17:51<TrueBrain>without ever telling it what they are .. so sorry Xaroth, I don't get your suggestion :(
17:51<TrueBrain>(but that might be me at this late hour :))
17:52<TrueBrain>damn, we have too many languages, takes for ever to do simple manipulations on it :(
17:53<TrueBrain>takes about 1 minute to do a single language from scratch .. 40 minutes to import r7787 :(
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18:13<TrueBrain>good night all
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20:00<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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21:59<_0x90u>Hey. Does anyone know what the licensing for OpenTTD is? Can't seem to find it on the wiki.
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22:05<Tefad>is it not gpl?
22:05<Tefad>_0x90u: click about on the main website
22:06<_0x90u>second question: is there currently an ipod/iphone port?
22:21<_0x90u>Tefad: found it btw. GNU General Public License version 2.0
22:21<Tefad>yes. on the about page
22:21<_0x90u>Thanks for telling me now xD
22:22<Tefad>what is the 2nd thing i said
22:22<_0x90u>I'm on 24Kbps internet =/
22:23<Tefad>irc rarely goes above 100bps . . .
22:23<Tefad>at least for this channel
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 03 00:00:11 2009