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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-05

---Logopened Wed Aug 05 00:00:25 2009
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03:14<dihedral> <- wtf?
03:21<pavel1269>QA: 74ticks :-)
03:21<pavel1269>dunno why he wonders ...
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03:56<TrueBrain>(that was scary, right?)
04:00<TrueBrain>I hate you
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04:01<TrueBrain>morning Alberth
04:01<Alberth>good morning
04:03<Alberth>TrueBrain: the HG repo does not have the last 2 revisions, maybe something dropped dead?
04:05<TrueBrain>who knows
04:05<TrueBrain>yeah, process was killed
04:06<welshdragon>Good Morning #openttd
04:09<TrueBrain>something is broken ..
04:09<TrueBrain>abort: journal already exists - run hg recover!
04:09<TrueBrain>svn: URL 'file:///var/repos/svn/openttd/3rdparty' non-existent in that revision
04:13<TrueBrain>no idea why it tries to access 3rdparty
04:13<@Rubidium>probably something with not enough memory or so
04:13<TrueBrain>now there is enough mem
04:14<TrueBrain>still it tries to access 3rdparty dir
04:14<TrueBrain>(I fixed the rest)
04:14<TrueBrain>ah, fixed :)
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04:17<Alberth>thank you!
04:17<TrueBrain>you are very welcome
04:17<TrueBrain>Rubidium: btw, short night?
04:18<TrueBrain>k, hg and git are in sync again
04:18<TrueBrain>there were a few permission errors :)
04:21<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: more sleeplessness
04:22*TrueBrain hits Rubidium with a brick, maybe that helps? :)
04:23<blathijs>very considerate :-)
04:23<TrueBrain>you know me ;)
04:26*Rubidium bricks TB's xbox
04:26<TrueBrain>what did he do wrng :(
04:26<TrueBrain>he never did anything to deserve that :(
04:27<@Rubidium>stealing time you should've spent on other, more important, things
04:27<TrueBrain>like? :p
04:28<@Rubidium>WT3, dune, ...
04:28<TrueBrain>dune sucks!!
04:28<TrueBrain>I can't find it ... it annoys the hell out of me ..
04:28<TrueBrain>and WT3.1 is getting along just fine:
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04:29<TrueBrain>and WT3.1 is getting along just fine:
04:29<TrueBrain>typo :p
04:29<blathijs>Cool, you're porting WT to django? :-D
04:29<TrueBrain>yeah .. I needed a temp domain, and dihedral had it :p
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04:30<TrueBrain>blathijs: WT3.0 is running on Django
04:30<TrueBrain>so nothing to port, just to rewrite
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04:30<blathijs>TrueBrain: Ah, cool. Never knew that.
04:30<blathijs>Yay for django :-)
04:30*dihedral likes the domain name ^^
04:30<TrueBrain>had a few drawbacks, but okay
04:30<TrueBrain>it can give WAY too many and inefficient queries
04:31<TrueBrain>and as WT3 is one big layer around the database .... it can be very slow
04:31<blathijs>The instructions on the mainpage are slightly confusing, took me a bit to find out that the first "Start a project" means a django project, and the second means a WT project
04:32<TrueBrain>yeah, it isn't meant to be clear :p
04:32<Nite_Owl>Mwhahaha - Rise my minions - The time is ripe for us to attack
04:33<blathijs>TrueBrain: True, but it still leaves the option open for custom SQL I think? Also, the lazyness of the SQL implementation makes it a lot more efficient than something similar in PHP I guess
04:33<Nite_Owl>Ooops - sorry wrong channel
04:33<TrueBrain>blathijs: yeah, but custom SQLs don't invalidate objects .. so all by all, a bit tricky :)
04:33<blathijs>TrueBrain: What's the story behind the domain name?
04:33<TrueBrain>best way I found so far is reading everything at once, and store it in a Python object
04:33<TrueBrain>blathijs: dihedral had it unused, I needed a domain
04:33<TrueBrain>1 + 1 ;)
04:34<blathijs>TrueBrain: Is WT already used by other projects? I see Civ4 and gettext in the feature list?
04:34<TrueBrain>well, not used, just many interest
04:34<TrueBrain>Debian translators and TortoiseSVN are on board
04:34<blathijs>Nice :-)
04:34<blathijs>I was already thinking of Debian translations, indeed
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04:35<TrueBrain>there were very ... enthousiastic :)
04:35<TrueBrain>there = they
04:35<dihedral>story behind the domain name: i was looking for a domain name, and saw a sainsburrie's lemon squash bottle, with a blue lable around it saying "no added sugar"
04:35<@Rubidium>that's lame story...
04:36<blathijs>dihedral: You were just looking for a domain for your collection? :-p
04:36<dihedral>i was working on a project at that time
04:36<dihedral>a cms
04:36<@Rubidium>I like: TrueBrain is somewhat of a sugar junkie and in good spirit with his previous big OpenTTD project...
04:36<dihedral>some 6 years ago
04:37<dihedral>btw: <- a nice, and honest reply Rubidium
04:40<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I like that too :)
04:40<TrueBrain>truth is, I hope to own a much better domain in 60 more days
04:41<TrueBrain>it takes so long before a domain drops .. even then the chances are incredible slim you will get the domain :(
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04:46<blathijs>TrueBrain: What domain?
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04:46<TrueBrain>blathijs: not going to tell :p Else others might steal it :p
04:47*dihedral knows :-P
04:47<dihedral>how about i sell it to you TrueBrain :-D
04:48<TrueBrain>I give you one dollar
04:48<dihedral>nope... :-P
04:48<dihedral>then i'll just park it with sedo :-D
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04:56<planetmaker>let's abstract a bit ;-)
04:56*Rubidium votes for KeinKarl ;)
04:56*TrueBrain seconds
05:02<einKarl>KeinKarl ;) says Hello, Good Morning - and bye. CU
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05:43<@Rubidium>:O the return of the one and only real instance of Peter!
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05:55<@petern>newgrf.cpp's list of text id changes might need to be expanded a bit since r17060/4... pom te pom
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06:06<andythenorth>dilemma! I have someone contributing FISH graphics unsolicited. They are ok, but not my taste. How do I say no and still be nice?
06:11<@Rubidium>just say no and tell him that if he wants to only draw stuff he should have a look at OpenGFX
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07:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17065 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Codechange: reorder last 1/3 of the strings. Hope it makes a bit more sense now
07:33<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: now you may review the english language file :)
07:33<@Rubidium>or do a reorder commit ;)
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07:46<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'm going to screw up my system once again...
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07:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17066 /trunk/src/lang/ (52 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify the order of {TINYFONT}/{BIGFONT} and {<colour>}
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08:36<@Rubidium>hi Belugas
08:36<planetmaker>salut Belugas
08:37<@Belugas>salut planetmaker, alors, ca boume ma poule?
08:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17067 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix (r17064): local authority window got messed up a bit; also move OS names to a more logical place.
08:37<@Belugas>hello Rubidium and good day, Master of Puppets ;)
08:37<@Belugas>puppets... hang by strings... string commits...
08:37*Belugas runs for coffee
08:38<@Rubidium>oh, I thought you were guessing the music I was listening too when I was doing that ;)
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>"ca boume ma poule?" <- that sounds naughty...
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>gaaah.... something screwed up and i lost all my filters :(
08:43<planetmaker>I cannot say I can understand it either... A literal translation doesn't make sense
08:43<@Rubidium>translator tools can't make sense of it either
08:45<@Rubidium>even word-by-word translation fails :(
08:45<+glx>of course they fail :)
08:45<@Rubidium>and my translation will probably be quite incorrect (unsafe for this channel though)
08:45<planetmaker>it is some kind of fixed saying... but even then the dictionaries I checked don't know it.
08:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17068 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change: make a number of strings more consistent with their relatives
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08:52<@Belugas>"ca boume" -> is it going well? "ma poule" -> my dear
08:52<@Belugas>strange, Rubidium, i did not expected you to listen to heavy metal :) how surprising how little i know you ;)
08:53<@Rubidium>Belugas: the question is, when is something heavy metal?
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: yeah, but the phrase could be full of double meanings...
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>for someone who doesn't know the cultural connotations
08:54<@Rubidium>so nothing with banging in your pool?
08:54<@Rubidium>Belugas: you know Apocalyptica?
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08:57<@petern>praa, paa paa, pa pa, pa pa pa, paaa
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>petern learns to talk?
08:57<@petern>it's from a flaming lips song
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: the "my dear" part i could find on leo, but not the "going well" part
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>i only have one flaming lips song...
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09:04<@Belugas>Rubidium, yes, indeed. now it makes sens :)
09:05<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, it's the equivalent of slang, i'd say. but for french. but honestly, i'm not sure at all it's still used in France
09:05<@Belugas>that, glx would confirm :)
09:06<@Belugas>Elton, paul, Delph[Net], no matter how the nick is formed, the connection is still crap, as i can see
09:07<+glx>Belugas: it's very friendly :)
09:07<+glx>so not very used
09:12<@Belugas>ok :D
09:13<@petern>hmm, "heavy metal"
09:14<planetmaker>Apocalyptica is just great.
09:16<Pygma>Belugas: What language was "Ca boume ma poule"?
09:17<Prof_Frink>Mmm, symphonic metal.
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09:21<@Belugas>Pygma: french
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09:21<Pygma>Oh, probably should've known that, since I did French in school, but was always terrible at languages :(
09:22<@Belugas>petern, if you think what i think, it's time to switch to DeathMole...
09:22<@petern>i think you're right
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09:38<Eddi|zuHause>so... i managed to salvage some of my filters from a trunkated file... but i'm sure i forgot some...
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10:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17069 /trunk/src/saveload/station_sl.cpp: -Fix (r17004): invalid read when converting old waypoints
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10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17070 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Codechange: some minor fixes to the order in english.txt
10:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17071 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: give a better error message when trying to make road one-way when it doesn't belong to you
10:34<planetmaker>"Plane Crash!{}Aircraft ran out of fuel, {COMMA} die in fireball" <--- what actually explodes, if there's no fuel left?!
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10:35<@petern>spontaneous combustion
10:35<planetmaker>oh, right :-P
10:35<@petern>also, there's still vapours left
10:37<@Rubidium>and vapours are explosive, liquids aren't
10:37<pavel1269>lol ... :-)
10:37<planetmaker>but despite that, crashes w/o fuel tend to be with quite little fire ;-)
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11:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17072 /trunk/src/ai/api/ -Fix: don't let squirrel export make a 'stub' for ai_changelog.hpp
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11:48<Eddi|zuHause>so. apparently the "tim taylor" approach doesn't solve my stability problems either
11:54<Alberth>You remind me of that cartoon where a sys-admin is standing on a computer to reach something, and remarks 'hmm, this NT system is quite stable'
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>i meant "more power" ...
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>because someone suggested it might be an insufficient power supply
12:07<Cybertinus>Eddi|zuHause: cooling problems? Don't know which symptons you have, so don't know if that could be the problem.
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>Cybertinus: various symptoms. mostly the computer suddenly freezing
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>or suddenly shutting down
12:09<@Belugas>too much cooling?
12:09<Cybertinus>lol Belugas
12:09<Cybertinus>Eddi|zuHause: hmm. That could be cooling problems
12:09<Cybertinus>install some program to monitor the CPU and motherboard temp
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>and the problem gets less when i underclock the computer
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>the case is open and i have a big fan in front of it
12:10<Cybertinus>Everest (Windows) can show the temps in your system tray
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>and the processor temperature is ~50°C
12:10<Cybertinus>idle or load?
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't really have anything to do with load
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes it freezes right after booting
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>when starting up X
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12:11<Cybertinus>a memtest86 test sounds also like a good idea
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>i occasionally suspected the graphics card, but i could not confirm it
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>i did that, switching memory did not help either
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>the problem worsened over time
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>the funny thing is, when i set the clock to the values when i originally got the computer, even memtest freezes
12:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17073 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Codechange: constify iec_prefixes[], change the code around a bit
12:16<Cybertinus>that is not good :p
12:17<_ln>have you visually observed the condition of capacitors?
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12:21<_ln>the regular ones
12:23<@Belugas>mycurrent capacitor is empty. i guess it's lunch time
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: they didn't blow up yet
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12:25<@Belugas>silly question, but still: do trains use "motor" breaks like cars and trucks can?
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12:26<Eddi|zuHause>trains use many different brakes
12:26<Chruker>isnt that the primary breaking thing on eletric trains?
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>modern (high speed) trains use electromagnetic brakes
12:27<frosch123>i was sat in a dmu, which needed diesel for both accelerating and braking
12:27<frosch123>which feeled quite weird
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>electromagnetic brakes depend on speed, so you can't actually stop with them
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>so you need mechanical brakes for that
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12:29<SmatZ>frosch123: when it runs out of diesel, it won't be able to stop?
12:29<frosch123>who knows :)
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: i doubt that, but it is very likely that the braking power reduces
12:30<@Belugas>it was just a reflectin regarding someone's patch
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12:31<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: basically, everything that can be used to accelerate the train, can also be used to decelerate it
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12:33<@Belugas>so, like a car, when you're on highest gear, and using lower gear, a train could slow down, therefor emitting more smoke while deccelerating
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12:33<@Belugas>that is, of course, taing for granted diesel trains...
12:33<_ln>[19:25] <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: they didn't blow up yet <-- they don't need to blow up, any deformation is bad.
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really know about smoke...
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12:34<@Belugas>well.. let say that, like a car,. the engine will run faster
12:34<@Belugas>this (maybe) smoke emission
12:35<_ln>Belugas: modern trains can also supply the energy resulting from braking back to the wire.
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: there might be one or two that look odd
12:35<@Belugas>hoo.... so... more spikes?
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12:36<Yrol>but there is no "link" between the tires of the train and the engine, so to speak. if you turn/speed up/slow down only the tires of the train, there wouldnt be anything enginerelated to "move", right? not like then the fire in the boiler changes or the consumption of coals
12:36<SmatZ>hmm, now I found diesel trains produce electricity which is then used to power the engine
12:36<SmatZ>maybe not all models though...
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: those are dieselelectric ones, there are also dieselhydraulic ones
12:37*SmatZ wonders whether any diesel trains have more gears and thus a clutch
12:37<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: also pay attention to the capacitors of the graphics card
12:38<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: interesting
12:38<@Belugas>good question, SmatZ
12:38<@Belugas>i guess so
12:38<@Belugas>wild guess only
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: i can't see those from this position...
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think diesel engine gears work like car gears... that would be a dieselmechanic engine, those were very rare
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>but of course they have some kind of clutch... else they couldn't have the engine running while being stopped
12:44<+glx>most are diesel-electric
12:49<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: I wonder how such high-power clutch would work (and how long it would last)
12:50<@petern>hydrualic usually
12:50<@petern>"most are diesel-electric" < except here
12:51<@petern>we apparently like our plain diesel MUs...
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: i don't know what to google for... all i get are descriptions of model railways...
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12:53<SmatZ>ok, thanks :)
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13:06<@Belugas>pam te pam
13:08<@petern>yeah :D
13:11<OwenSX48BD>I wish companies would stop giving out routers which you can't run OpenWRT on...
13:12-!-OwenSX48BD is now known as OwenS
13:12<@Rubidium>OwenS: you mean like linksys does?
13:12<OwenS>I mean I wish ISPs would give out less useless routers. I'm developing quite a collection of them and they're all useless for anything but access point use
13:13<OwenS>One only needs so many access points!
13:13<SpComb>more the merrier
13:13<OwenS>Until one has an access point in every non-overlapping channel :p
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13:18<kingj>I'm sure eBay could assist you with that problem OwenS
13:19<OwenS>Then I have to decide what to sell :p
13:19<OwenS>Though I suppose it would help with the process of upconverting to 802.11n devices
13:19<OwenS>Well, 802.11n + Gigabit backhaul
13:19*Rubidium is happy with his IPv6 enabled router/AP ;)
13:21<OwenS>One of the reasons I want an OpenWRT compatible device :p
13:21<OwenS>I could live without IPv6 AP support though, firstly as they're just running at level 2 and secondly because I'll never remember their IPv6 anyway
13:22<@Rubidium>DNS helps with that
13:22*Rubidium got a 'spare' OpenWRT compatible device
13:22<@Rubidium>you 'just' need to get it flashed
13:22<OwenS>Then I need to maintain nearly identical but subtly different internal and external DNS servers (Primarily, exposed machines have different IPv4 internal vs external devices)
13:23<OwenS>IPV4 int vs ext IPv4 addresses even! :P
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13:25<OwenS>It would be easy if I could do if(request_from_outside) return external_address else return address_in_reccord
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13:27<@Rubidium>OwenS: just fiddle a bit with the code of DNS server, shouldn't be that impossible
13:28<OwenS>if((addr & 0xFFFF0000) == 0xB0100000) return external_address, I know :p
13:33<OwenS>w00t! Good riddance ADSL!
13:33<OwenS>I shall be seeing the back end of you a week on Monday!
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13:37<Eddi|zuHause>that sentence does not parse
13:38<OwenS>A week on monday I shall be getting rid of ADSL :P
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13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17074 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 8 changes by Gavin
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 50 changes by Rubidium, TrueBrain
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 4 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 47 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frisian - 38 changes by huddekul
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13:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17075 /trunk/src/ (148 files in 9 dirs): -Codechange: rename ~750 strings to be more uniform with their relatives
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14:47<@Rubidium>planetmaker: re OGFX#149, what's the error?
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14:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17076 /trunk/src/lang/ (40 files in 2 dirs): -Update: reflect the changes Rubidium made in the last few days to all languages
14:58<planetmaker>Rubidium: ogfx1_base.d:1: *** target pattern contains no `%'. Stop.
14:59<planetmaker>I shall add that there. I just wrote the note when I didn't have access to my laptop. Just so it won't get forgotten :-)
15:00<@Rubidium>what happens if you change the | with something else, like !?
15:01-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
15:01<planetmaker>I tried to replace it by @ without success
15:03<@Rubidium>can you pin point more precisely what part of the sed doesn't do what it should do?
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15:03<TrueBrain>oh shit, he is back
15:04<@Belugas>i can see you!
15:04<TrueBrain>where where?
15:04*TrueBrain looks around like he has seen a ghost
15:04<@Belugas>right under that desk!
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15:10<@Rubidium>Does anyone in here have an idea how to make "Order refit failure stopped {VEHICLE}" more clear? What it means is that a refit is ordered in a vehicle's order list has failed and it notifies you of that. However, the current string is (for some at least) quite unclear. Any suggestions on how to improve it?
15:11<pavel1269>lol, i dont even understand the what it means :-)
15:12<Yrol>Ordered refitting of (VEHICLE) failed: (REASON)
15:13<@Rubidium>doesn't tell the vehicle was stopped
15:13<pavel1269>Refiting order failed, (VEH) stopped. ?
15:13<+glx>{VEHICLE} stopped due to ordered refit failure
15:14<+glx>anyway ask native speakers
15:15<Yrol>Ordered refitting of stopped (VEHICLE) failed: (REASON)
15:15<pavel1269>reason == failed? :P
15:15<@Rubidium>reason isn't stored
15:16<Yrol>oh. ok.
15:16<+glx>and the vehicle isn't stopped before refit
15:16-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:17<Yrol>a variation of glxs idea then? {VEHICLE} stopped due to an ordered refit having failed
15:17<pavel1269>good one :-)
15:18<pavel1269>but i say ... have failed :-)
15:18<Yrol>it resolves the foggy "stop order refit fail" wordchain a bit better
15:18-!-Lisby [] has quit []
15:18<Yrol>hm, "having" is nore fitting i would say. because of the "due to"
15:19<pavel1269>whatever you say :-)
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15:20<Yrol>"has" would just be more wrong, then it would have to be "stopped because an ordered refit has failed"
15:21<Yrol>then again... in that version the "has" before "failed" could just be omitted
15:22<pavel1269>what about ordered refit failed? :P
15:25-!-OwenS [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: ah... it doesn't do the '\n'
15:27-!-Gekz_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:27<planetmaker>nope. But further down, also some other reg. exp. thing not... as far as I understand
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15:27<planetmaker>(when trying to do it directly in xterm)
15:28<planetmaker>e.g. the \1 thing in the sed reg exp.
15:28<planetmaker>which the sed under linux understands.
15:29<@Rubidium>does make it any better?
15:29<planetmaker>interestingly from my man file: 2. The escape sequence \n matches a newline character embedded in the
15:29<planetmaker> pattern space. You can't, however, use a literal newline character
15:29<planetmaker> in an address or in the substitute command.
15:29<frosch123>Rubidium: "{VEHICLE} stopped in depot. Refit order failed."
15:29<Yrol>(pavel1269) °hangs head° okay. we do it this way : "ERROR!" its simple, short and easily understood ;oP
15:30<pavel1269>ye! _(
15:30<pavel1269>"!{VEHICLE} ERROR!" :-)
15:30<@Rubidium>frosch123: possible, though personally I like Yrol 19:20 (UTC) more
15:31-!-OwenS [] has joined #openttd
15:32<frosch123>also fine, but two sentences are usually easier :)
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15:36<planetmaker>Rubidium: beats me, that works. What's the difference...?
15:37<@Rubidium>the \n
15:37<planetmaker>right, yes. :-)
15:37<@Rubidium>and I found out that you can put multiple things before the : so you don't need two lines to make the pnfo and nfo depend on the pcx
15:37<planetmaker>that's right, yes
15:38*planetmaker hugs Rubidium
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15:38<@Rubidium>there's some trailing whitespace removal in that diff though
15:38<planetmaker>I see that.
15:38<planetmaker>usually there *should* not be that anyway
15:39<planetmaker>obviously there is, though
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15:39*Rubidium wonders why there are so many projects that can't keep trailing whitespace out of their sources
15:40*frosch123 wonders why so many editors cannot display tabs vs. spaces and even insert them in the weirdest ways when autoindenting
15:40-!-OwenS [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:40<OwenSX48BD>frosch123: Aah, I do love Kate's tab highlighting
15:41*Rubidium agrees with OwenSX48BD
15:41<@Rubidium>especially that you can lighten it a bit so it isn't that visible
15:41-!-OwenSX48BD is now known as OwenS
15:41<@Rubidium>thus not that annoying
15:41<frosch123>yup, katepart has the best whitepace displaying :)
15:42<frosch123>recently I tried codeblocks because someone used it in here, but it made the code unreadable with a dot for *every* space
15:42<OwenS>Does that make Kate one of the few editors with Whitespace support without special highlighting (I'm talking of the silly programming language here :P)
15:42-!-Muxy [] has joined #openttd
15:43<planetmaker>indeed kate is nice for that.
15:43<@petern>vim has the best
15:44-!-Zorn [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: )]
15:44<@Rubidium>vim has a tainted name
15:44<OwenS>Lies. Vim is a vile contraption to be used only when using foul consoles without editors like nano :p
15:44<Prof_Frink>OwenS: Could be worse. Could be emacs.
15:44-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
15:44*OwenS runs
15:44<OwenS>(Actually, I like both Vim and Nano, though find Vim slightly faster. Provisio: I leave Vim in insert mode :P)
15:45<@petern>nano's shit
15:45<@Rubidium> <- vim is for shit
15:46<@petern>lies, that's jif
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15:47<@petern>or cif, as they renamed it
15:47<Muxy>or CIF for frenhies
15:48*OwenS thinks cif is a silly name
15:48<@petern>and so is oil of olay
15:50<Muxy>Cif is here
15:52<planetmaker>Rubidium: thanks a lot for that diff for the makefile! :-)
15:52<@Rubidium>you're welcome :)
15:53<planetmaker>and it was so little change which was still only needed... and what did I all try... not this :-)
15:54<@Rubidium>I know the feeling
15:54<planetmaker>hehe :-) I guess every programmer does know it...
15:55<planetmaker>frustration tolerance...
16:02<Yrol>°waves° a good day or night to everybody :o)
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16:41<TrueBrain>Yeah! Rubidium gets a cookie
16:43<TrueBrain>damn, I am too drunk to do any coding
16:44<TrueBrain>that makes me happy :)
16:44<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: Overshot the Ballmer Peak again?
16:45<TrueBrain>Remember Windows ME?
16:47<TrueBrain>I think I shouldn't be translating now too :p
16:47<TrueBrain>so what then .. hmm ...
16:51<TrueBrain>could you guys be more boring?
16:53*fjb tries very hard.
16:54<TrueBrain>well, you are not getting a cookie for doing such a good job
16:54-!-Yexo [] has joined #openttd
16:54<TrueBrain>welcome Yexo
16:54<fjb>I want a cookie.
16:54<@Rubidium>what a nice paradox, though fjb failed to make it more boring (and now I'm doing that again)
16:54<Yexo>good evening
16:55<Yexo>hi TrueBrain :)
16:55<TrueBrain>fjb: you will have to open a browser yourself!
16:55<@Belugas>there was a light. no... it's now dimmed out. it's now pulsating. ho ho... it's round. not quite. more ovoid
16:55<@Belugas>what it is?
16:55*petern flashes his penis at TrueBrain
16:55<fjb>Hello Yexo. We are trying to be boring today.
16:55<TrueBrain>Belugas: a pulsar
16:55<@Rubidium>it's Belugas going home?
16:55<TrueBrain>petern: there are girls in here, behave
16:55<@Belugas>almost Rubidium...
16:56<@Belugas>It's TrueLight which became TrueBrain!
16:56<TrueBrain>once upon a time
16:56<@Belugas>there's a lady who's sure
16:56<TrueBrain>long long long long LONG LONG (did I say: long, already) ago
16:56<@Belugas>all that glitters is ...
16:56<Aali>diff: memory exhausted
16:56<@Belugas>and she's buying a ...
16:56<TrueBrain>Aali: I had my computer crashing last time because I was diffing 250 MiB text files :p
16:57<TrueBrain>(and my kernel thought it was a good idea to dump my X session)
16:57<Aali>I'm diffing two 300MB files
16:57<TrueBrain>Belugas: go home :)
16:57<Aali>well, I guess I'm not diffing anything now
16:57<@petern>and she's buying a stannah stair lift to heaven
16:57<@Belugas>tam tadata
16:57<@Belugas>tam ta tam
16:58*Belugas is gone
16:58<@Belugas>bye bye
16:58<TrueBrain>bubye Belugas
16:58<TrueBrain>have a nice one :)
16:58<@Belugas>beer? no, you drank it all!
16:58<Prof_Frink>Bye bye Bellyugas
16:58<TrueBrain>Belugas: sorry ... that I did
16:58*Belugas is not here anymore
16:58<Yexo> is giving 500 - internal server error pages
16:58<TrueBrain>Yexo: you no like?
16:59<Yexo>me no like code 500
16:59<TrueBrain>code 200?
16:59<TrueBrain>maybe 301
16:59<TrueBrain>can't be sure from this end
16:59<Prof_Frink>FOUR OH FOUR
16:59<Yexo>hmm, it works again now
17:00<TrueBrain>might be because of the letters I typed in this black on white box I have open
17:00<TrueBrain>might be nothing related to it
17:00<TrueBrain>does: PORN!!!
17:00<TrueBrain>solve the problem in general?
17:01<TrueBrain>oh, that wakes Sacro
17:01<Prof_Frink>The internet is for it.
17:01<TrueBrain>you got to know the trigger words in this channel
17:01<TrueBrain>Sacro: you have a highlight on that word?
17:01<Sacro>TrueBrain: despite what Bjarni protests, no
17:01<TrueBrain>Sacro: pfew
17:01<Sacro>i do not happen to get notified on tits, porn, lesbians or anything else
17:01<Sacro>just Sacro
17:02<Prof_Frink>And gameloser.
17:03<Yexo>TrueBrain: you got my pm about an ai repo?
17:03<TrueBrain>Yexo: nope
17:03<Yexo>I sent it today via
17:04<TrueBrain>not to me, sorry
17:04<Yexo>what? I can't find it back now
17:04<Yexo>I'm quite sure I send it :s
17:04<TrueBrain>did you really press that ugly yellow button reading: post?
17:05<TrueBrain>:) (hihi)
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>it would be in the history if you sent it
17:05<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause2: that's the problem, it's not there
17:05-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
17:05<TrueBrain>ergo: you didn't sent it :)
17:05<TrueBrain>so send it again
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>then you did not send it
17:05<@Rubidium>no, Simon or PFY removed it!
17:06<TrueBrain>someone read too much BOFH
17:06<TrueBrain>I agree
17:07<OwenS>Theres only a finite quantity of BOFH and it's not enough
17:07<Yexo>anyway: currently all repositories at contains either openttd code or 'related' code (website / translator / masterserver etc.). Is it ok to create a hg repo on for the common ai library?
17:07<Yexo>or for all ai libraries actually
17:07-!-Azrael- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:08<Prof_Frink>Next one should be good... the Bastard owes the Boss money :)
17:08<TrueBrain>Yexo: sure! I guess you have to clear it with other devs too, but sounds not more than logic
17:08<TrueBrain>I wouldn't even mind having it in SVN :p
17:08-!-Svish [~Svish@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:09*OwenS starts building parser & LLVM code generator for programming language
17:09<Yexo>ok, nice to hear :)
17:09<TrueBrain>I guess I should toy with LLVM a bit soon too :p Sounds useful .. somehow :)
17:09<TrueBrain>Yexo: you have all the permissions to set it up; if not, let me know :)
17:09<OwenS>The code gen API is really, really simple
17:10<TrueBrain>first I need to finish WT3.1 .. or at least get it functional
17:10<TrueBrain>and somehow get dune2 to work :'( It depresses me I still haven't fixed it
17:11<TrueBrain>what day is it today? Hmm .. 4 more days in this week, and then 3 more weeks .. then my classes start again ..... brr
17:11<OwenS>I know that feeling :p
17:12<TrueBrain>Yexo: at first I thought it was a good idea to have the AI Libraries in nobodys land .. but it turns out to be a terrible idea :)
17:13<Yexo>it seemed a good idea, but the development turns out to be dead currently
17:13-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
17:14<Yexo>a few months ago there were some topics with improvements for the pathfinders, but since nobody is really responsible work doesn't continue
17:17<Yexo>TrueBrain: next (related) question: Can you also make doxygen documentation for the ai libraries available? If yes, what should I do to make that possible?
17:18<TrueBrain>that is a bit more tricky
17:19<TrueBrain>I guess the easiest solution would be that you generate them via your account (via a crontab, I would say, or post-commit hooks)
17:19<TrueBrain>and that I create a directory for you where you can upload the results
17:19<TrueBrain>I guess something like ?
17:19<Yexo>that'd be nice
17:20<TrueBrain>k, /var/www/
17:20<TrueBrain>writable by all developers, you are the owner, sticky bit on the group set
17:21<Yexo>thanks :)
17:22<TrueBrain>let me allow dirlisting
17:23<TrueBrain>there we go
17:23<TrueBrain>if you ened anything else, let me know :)
17:24<TrueBrain>Rubidium: read above, FYI :)
17:24<Yexo>a lot of time to set this all up please :)
17:24*TrueBrain gives Yexo A LOT of time
17:24<TrueBrain>did it help?
17:24<Yexo>it's still 23:23 :p
17:24<TrueBrain>23:24 :p
17:24<Yexo>so it only cost me time :p
17:24<TrueBrain>Rubidium: and if you have better suggestions, let us know :)
17:25<@Rubidium>I'm wondering whether hg or svn would be better
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17:25<TrueBrain>I tend to say SVN
17:25<TrueBrain>as the hgs don't have any backup or what ever
17:25<TrueBrain>they just .. exist .. without real support
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17:26<TrueBrain>so I would advise against using that for anything real
17:26<Yexo>that's exactly the point of hg, everyone has a local backup
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17:26<TrueBrain>Yexo: yup; but for AI libraries that is not optimal
17:26<TrueBrain>you want central development in that case, not decentral
17:30<Yexo>so does it have to be a part of the openttd svn or will you create a seperate svn server for it?
17:30<TrueBrain>Both are possible, but I see no reason why not to put it in the OpenTTD SVN .. can't find a real reason for that :p
17:31<@Rubidium>I'm only wondering what development 'model' you're going for with the libraries
17:32<@Rubidium>releases with release branches or just a single 'trunk' that you occasionally mark as 'release'?
17:32<@Rubidium>hmm, that'd still require a /trunk and /tags
17:37<TrueBrain>I think they should all branch on a OpenTTD release, as it might need other API functions
17:37<TrueBrain>hmm .. for this 3rd party hosting would be ideal :)
17:37-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:37<Yexo>originally I was thinking about just a single trunk, but for new openttd stable versions branching would be nice
17:37<TrueBrain>(like I believe)
17:37<tdev>what do you want to host?
17:37<OwenS>I have to feel that someone failed to fully excise all the NetBeans from SunStudio because it says "Learn More About... Java EE" without Java EE support :p
17:37<TrueBrain>Yexo: will those libraries be single libraries on their own, or a collection?
17:37<Yexo>I'm not sure what you're asking. I intent to upload all existing libraries there, and add some new ones
17:37<TrueBrain>well, is the idea to have a collection, or are they really just single entities on their own?
17:37<Yexo>every library is an entity on it's own, but they can depend on eachother
17:37<TrueBrain>in SVN talk: lib1/trunk, lib2/trunk or trunk/lib1, trunk/lib2
17:37<TrueBrain>in HG talk: a hg init for each lib, or 1 hg init for all libs
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17:37<Sacro>TrueBrain: a hg init to rule them all?
17:37<Sacro>and in the darkness commit them
17:37<TrueBrain>Sacro: you should write a book
17:37<TrueBrain>call it ... lord of the commits!
17:37<Yexo>not sure, I'm thinkg about lib1/trunk lib2/trunk, but then it would be nice to have a makefile that builds / packs all libraries, and that seems to fit in better with trunk/lib1 trunk/lib2
17:38<Sacro>TrueBrain: good idea
17:38<TrueBrain>hmm ..
17:38-!-OwenS [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:39<@Rubidium>Yexo: you can make a 'virtual' trunk-with-all-packages using svn:externals
17:39-!-TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:39<TrueBrain>what if we just install Redmine on a subdomain
17:39<TrueBrain>enable auto-subversion-create
17:39-!-OwenS [] has joined #openttd
17:39<TrueBrain>and give Yexo admin rights?
17:39<TrueBrain>then he can create small individual subversions
17:39<TrueBrain>have a wiki page and issue tracker for each
17:39-!-tokai [] has quit [Quit: Icebears are cute. Please, take care of them!]
17:40<TrueBrain>(redmine is the software serving and
17:40<Yexo>that would be perfect
17:40<@Rubidium>fine by me too, just somewhere under
17:40<TrueBrain>seen what is currently on noai, I would say replace it in total
17:40<TrueBrain>maybe even allow other people to put their AI there
17:41<TrueBrain>I would only like to limit the latter with one condition: if you put your AI there, it has to be (L)GPLv2, and you need to upload the source of your AI (so not a redirect-page to some offsite location)
17:41<Yexo>completely agreed
17:41<TrueBrain>Rubidium: from our perspective: new VPS, or in openttd-web?
17:42<@Rubidium>I'd say new vps
17:42<TrueBrain>when I look at WT3.1 page, it takes about 250 MB of RAM (redmine)
17:42<TrueBrain>I am sure we can fix that somehow ... :p
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17:44<TrueBrain>k, Yexo, I will set this up now or tomorrow
17:45<TrueBrain>(depends how long I stay this wasted)
17:45<Yexo>thanks a lot :)
17:45<TrueBrain>Rubidium: suggestion for VPS name? openttd-noai ?
17:45<@Rubidium>sounds fine
17:47<TrueBrain>generating VPS ... lalalala
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17:57<TrueBrain>installing the documentation of Rake takes the longest :p
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17:59*OwenS wonders two things: Firstly, why the need for a new Ruby specific make? Second, why install the docs on a server? :p
17:59<TrueBrain>they come with the package
17:59-!-satyap [] has joined #openttd
17:59<TrueBrain>and rake has little to do with make .. well .. I guess in some way it has
17:59<satyap>what programs do you use to create newgrfs? i mean, does grfcreator work, or is it grfcodec + text files?
18:00<satyap>yeah i could look at the wiki but it's hard to find answers to qualitative questions
18:00<satyap>and i *have* been googling
18:00<TrueBrain>he came prepared!
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18:00<TrueBrain>@voice satyap
18:00-!-mode/#openttd [+v satyap] by DorpsGek
18:00<TrueBrain>that deserves something special :)
18:00<+satyap>umm thanks
18:00<TrueBrain>sadly enough, I know nothing about grfs, so I can't help you out
18:00<+satyap>well, at least it's an answer, and i thank you
18:01<Yexo>I haven't heard of grfcreator before (maybe you mean grfmaker?)
18:01<+satyap>now i must urgently wander off to the park with slides
18:01<+satyap>possibly i do mean grfmaker
18:01<Yexo>grfmaker is one option, but the more advanced newgrfs are created with grfcoded + some text editor
18:01<+satyap>i'll be back later
18:01<+satyap>alright, thanks. i'm sure i'll have more questions
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18:03<TrueBrain>I like this kid :)
18:07-!-bb10 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:16<TrueBrain> <- whiieee!!!
18:16<TrueBrain>TODO list: add leaseweb logo :p
18:17<@Rubidium>- add OpenTTD logo
18:17<Yexo>TrueBrain: is the login linked to any of my other openttd accounts or do I have to create a new account?
18:18<TrueBrain>Yexo: the latter for now
18:18<TrueBrain>I will see if I can make a bridge
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18:18<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I need a 'from' address for RedMine
18:19<TrueBrain>I want to use noai@ , but that means we need to add it as real mail :p
18:19<TrueBrain>shall we route that address to Yexo? :)
18:19<@Rubidium>fine by me ;)
18:19<@Rubidium>although, maybe in the future we want multiple managers
18:19<Yexo>another email box is fine too
18:19<TrueBrain>it is a alias, so :p
18:19<@Rubidium>so maybe a seperate mail account (like translator) is better
18:20<TrueBrain>lets do that when another manager presents itself :p
18:21<TrueBrain>Yexo: you will hav eto finetune it, names and stuff
18:21<TrueBrain>I now need to read how I can make it auto-create subversion and shit
18:22<Yexo>and how can I do that? via ssh on the server?
18:22<TrueBrain>Yexo: create account and I make you admin :p
18:22<Yexo>I already have an account :)
18:22<Ammler>TrueBrain: hg?
18:22<TrueBrain>Ammler: no
18:23<TrueBrain>Yexo: then now you are an administrator
18:23<TrueBrain>the admin interface is really easy
18:23<TrueBrain>just don't create a project just yet :)
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18:23<TrueBrain>Ammler: I think subversion is more suitable for this job
18:23<TrueBrain>(although much higher overhead)
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18:24<TrueBrain>(or anyone needs to have good argumentation to use hg :))
18:25<Ammler>you mean hg has higher overhead?
18:25<TrueBrain>no, SVN has
18:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I think we need to create a small ldap server and put all accounts in there .. so we can easier make centralized authentication
18:26<Ammler>openid :-)
18:26<TrueBrain>considered it, but OpenID is a bit .. silly I think
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>make a centralised global world institute responsible for automatic unique identification. solves all problems.
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>and each passport gets a gps chip, so that all persons can be located at any time
18:28<@Rubidium>the Germans tried that, but... they failed
18:28<Ammler>well, openid is the opposite, that is why I like it.
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>and each person that does not carry its ID card gets a terrorrism suspect and all human rights taken away
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>modern day outlaws...
18:29<OwenS>OpenID doesn't really work for SVN :p
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>robin hood was a terrorist...
18:30<Ammler>OwenS: there is at least a lib for c++
18:30<OwenS>Ammler: It's rather pointless in a web-browser-less-app ;P
18:30<TrueBrain>OwenS: room for improvement!!
18:30<Ammler>openttd with openid would be very cool
18:31<OwenS>The trust model falls apart without the web browser ::p
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18:31<Ammler>he? why?
18:31<DaleStan>satyap: It depends on what you want to do. GRFMaker can do the simple things, but the more complex you want, the more likely it is that you'll have to write directly in NFO.
18:31<DaleStan>Consensus is that GRFMaker is not a substitute for understanding NFO, just a substitute for memorizing the spec word-for-word.
18:31<DaleStan>Me, I code in NFO and use NFORenum to check my work.
18:32<OwenS>Because you have no proof that they're not intercepting your credentials :P
18:32<+satyap>roger that
18:32<TrueBrain>Yexo: okay, please create a single project
18:32<TrueBrain>then I will test this auto-magic stuff
18:33<OwenS>You do in a web server since the web browser is acting as a trusted third party. In a C++ app, you don't have a trusted third party
18:33<Ammler>why should the web browser be more trusted then openttd?
18:34<OwenS>Because the web browser is not affiliated with what you're authenticating for
18:34<Yexo>TrueBrain: I've created one
18:34<+satyap>the app would behave like a web browser... serving openttd packets instead of web pages
18:34<TrueBrain>Yexo: you sure want to go with those names? Assuming it will be possible that there will be real AIs?
18:34<+satyap>or i could be talking through my hat
18:34<OwenS>Also, the OpenID model is entirely dependent upon being able to show web pages :p
18:34<TrueBrain>(and I am really asking here, I dunno :))
18:35<TrueBrain>Yexo: few RedMine odditiest ins and outs: you might want to disable Documents, to get the Wiki, set a MainPage in the settings, and you might want to disable shit like 'Spent time'
18:35<Yexo>What do you think about "Lib_BinaryHeap" or "Queue_BinaryHeap"?
18:35*satyap is mildly vexed by trying to bootstrap all newgrf specs into brain at the same time, not to mention that a certain wiki's spec description doesn't quite match what i see in the japanese trainset
18:35<Ammler>OwenS: I might understand openid a bit different then you, maybe wron then.
18:35<TrueBrain>Yexo: I really don't know ..
18:36<Yexo>also an option
18:36<OwenS>Ammler: My understanding all comes from being an OpenID consumer, and also from being smart enough to have a bit of a clue about security and know that I'm not smart enough to design security myself :p
18:36<Yexo>but the max length for the unique id is 20 characters, so lib-queue-binaryheap is streching it a bit
18:36<TrueBrain>Yexo: lol .. sucks ...
18:37<TrueBrain>lib-binaryheap ? :)
18:37<TrueBrain>dunno .. might just be useful to have 'lib' in there
18:37<Yexo>yes, indeed
18:37<Yexo>bah, it isn't possible to change the id once created :(
18:37<TrueBrain>delete it and recreate it
18:37<TrueBrain>the reason I asked for it ;)
18:40<Yexo>what is "Boards"?
18:40<TrueBrain>forum, I guess
18:40<Yexo>so unneeded then
18:41<Yexo>all pages are "403 - Forbidden" now
18:41<TrueBrain>sorry, I had to test my deny-a-certain-dir thingy
18:41<TrueBrain>and it refuses :(
18:42<Yexo>no problem :)
18:42<TrueBrain>I can deny ALL access, but not for the dir I am looking for :(
18:43<Yexo>there seems to be no repository currently, do I have to create one myself via the "Repository" tab?
18:43<TrueBrain>nope, I have to do that
18:44<TrueBrain>that is what I will be testing ;)
18:44<TrueBrain>if I can get this annoying thing to work :(
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18:46<TrueBrain>this is just insane .....
18:48<TrueBrain>why do thinks never work as documented
18:49<Xaroth>yer hexed
18:49<Xaroth>it could be worse tho
18:49<Yexo>good luck with fixing it :)
18:49<Yexo>and good night everyone
18:49<TrueBrain>Yexo: night
18:49<TrueBrain>btw, repos created
18:49<Xaroth>you could be forced to go to evoswitch at 7am in the morning
18:50<TrueBrain>sadly enough, it makes a really terrible subversion ...
18:50<TrueBrain>Xaroth: poor thing :p
18:50-!-Yexo [] has quit [Quit: bye]
18:50<Xaroth>TrueBrain: meh
18:50<Xaroth>went home 2 hours early today for it tho
18:51<Xaroth>seeing i was already working at 7..
18:51<Xaroth>downside is toh
18:51<Xaroth>when you drive there, it's cool outside
18:51<Xaroth>then you go inside, to the heat of the datahalls
18:51<TrueBrain>bah, it seems I need to allow webDAV
18:51<Xaroth>then when yer done.. at around 11am
18:51<Xaroth>I could cook an egg on my car seats/steering wheel
18:53<Xaroth>off to bed
18:53<Xaroth>hopefully not such a hectic day tomorrow
18:53<TrueBrain>I hope so for you too :)
18:53<TrueBrain>I go to bed too
18:53<TrueBrain>I will see tomorrow how I can make RedMine to things MY WAY
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18:53<Xaroth>lol good luck :P
18:53<Xaroth>redmine can be a bitch :P
18:53<TrueBrain>(which most likely means installing apache :p)
18:55<OwenS>Eww @ Apache :P
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19:01*satyap does apache
19:01<+satyap>sigh. i can get james into msts, but not get grfmaker to work
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19:06<TrueBrain>nice, apache only serves 404
19:07<TrueBrain>ActionController::RoutingError (No route matches "/index.html" with {:method=>:get}): <- wut?
19:07-!-Azrael- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:08<TrueBrain>there we go :)
19:09-!-Coco-Banana-Man [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:11<+satyap>uh... you lose your index.html? or not have it in config/routes?
19:11<TrueBrain>no, it was .htaccess fucking up
19:11<TrueBrain>RedMine has a minor .. glitch there
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19:16<+satyap>what's the web server and rails thingy you use?
19:16<+satyap>like, passenger, or rack, or...
19:16<TrueBrain>Passenger should NOT load the .htaccess
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19:20<TrueBrain>wopla, works
19:21<TrueBrain>WAY past my bedtime
19:21<TrueBrain>night all
19:21*Sacro tucks TrueBrain into bed
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19:23<+satyap>cool, grfmaker seems to work under wine
19:23<+satyap>that should reduce the annoyance factor
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>the forum is weird... "in real life, big cities do not grow into each other"
19:26<@Rubidium>that's true
19:26<Aali>to be fair, they usually dont
19:27<Aali>the bigger city swallows the smaller city and it all becomes one city
19:27<@Rubidium>or rather, name me two big cities that are grown into eachother
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>the entire ruhr area?
19:27<@Rubidium>that's all small hamlets grown together
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and each of these hamlets has 1mio inhabitants ;)
19:28<@Rubidium>but is X building in Y?
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>the entire east coast of the USA is one big megalopolis
19:29<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that's far from true
19:29<@Belugas>[19:26] <Eddi|zuHause> the forum is weird... "in real life, big cities do not grow into each other" <--- who DARE SAID THAT???
19:30<@Rubidium>there are quite a lot of stretches of 'nothing' between the cities
19:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17077 /branches/0.7/os/rpm/openttd.spec: [0.7] -Fix [FS#3024]: rpm spec file failed for CentOS; apparantly their rpmbuild is pickier or so
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>ok, yes, there are, but some cities do touch each other
19:31<adam_vollrath>wow there's a .spec?
19:31<adam_vollrath>that's neat
19:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17078 /branches/0.7/src/strings.cpp: [0.7] -Fix [FS#3082]: crash when renaming some towns (already fixed in trunk by rewrite of the function)
19:32<Sacro>rpm sucks balls
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19:35<Eddi|zuHause2>"ERROR: Multiple available KDE sessions!" <- wtf is wrong here? i certainly have only one session running
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19:46<Nite_Owl>Hello all
19:48<@Belugas>not even fun to bash
19:49<@Belugas>bored i am...
19:49<@Belugas>hello Nite_Owl
19:49<Nite_Owl>Hello Belugus
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17079 /branches/0.7/ (9 files in 4 dirs):
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Change: Add notion of Ctrl_Click in the tooltip for Loan borrow/repay buttons [FS#3066] (r16979)
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Make it so that failing to generate many random towns in scenario editor returns a failing message [FS#3059] (r16977)
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Change: [MSVC] Make all language files depend on english.txt (r16975)
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Change: There is no point in not randomising engine introduction-date before 1922. Instead disable the randomisation for the first two years after game-start, so you do not have to wait for the first engine (r16929)
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: The last manually added server would not be saved [FS#3062] (r16981)
19:50<Nite_Owl>Ooooo more backporting
19:51<Nite_Owl>Are you still at work Belugas and if so why?
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19:54<@Rubidium>Belugas is always at work
19:55<Nite_Owl>he usually wanders off around 5 PM eastern
19:55<@Rubidium>to his other job
19:55<@Rubidium>you didn't know Belugas has two bosses?
19:56<Nite_Owl>if you mean did I know that he was married then yes
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the cat? :p
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19:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17080 /branches/0.7/ (20 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
19:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
19:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Documentation of AITile::LevelTiles was wrong (r17049)
19:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AICompany::Get/Set PresidentGender (r17016)
19:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AIEngine::GetDesignDate (r17014)
19:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AIStation::GetConstructionDate (r17012)
19:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AIAbstractList::SORT_ASCENDING / SORT_DESCENDING (r17005)
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20:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17081 /branches/0.7/ (8 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
20:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Mark house tiles dirty when triggers were triggered (r17047)
20:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Trigger house trigger 02 only for the north tile [FS#3085] (r17046)
20:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Graphical glitch with graph key [FS#3083] (r17041)
20:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: "[bd]ash"-ism in configure [FS#3076] (r17026)
20:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Infinite recursion in content dependency checking [FS#3075] (r17015)
20:07<Nite_Owl>so exactly how many 0.7.? releases are you planning on
20:07<@Rubidium>4 to 5 I'd say
20:08<@Rubidium>like we've done since basically 0.4.5
20:10<Nite_Owl>My history only goes back to around 0.5.0 - I do not seem to remember either 0.5 or 0.6 going to that many but I could be wrong
20:11<@Rubidium>excluding betas and RCs
20:12<Nite_Owl>that is about what I remembered
20:13<@Rubidium>how release do they have?
20:14<Nite_Owl>yes - 0.5.3 & 0.6.3 - 0.4.8 was before my time here
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20:17<@Rubidium>diff 0.4 -> 0.5: 18 MB, 0.5 -> 0.6: 23 MB, 0.6 -> 0.7: 22 MB, 0.7 -> trunk: 31 MB
20:18<@Rubidium>0.5->0.6 is big(ger) due to the move C++
20:18<@Rubidium>0.6->0.7 is big(ger) due to adding NoAI
20:19<@Rubidium>0.7->trunk is big(ger) due to the window system rewrite and the string rename/reorder stuff
20:20<@Rubidium>so what major stuff would go into 0.8->0.9 to beat the 30 MB, or even reach 20 MB
20:22-!-Pygma [~quassel@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:24<Nite_Owl>a new map array
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>a C# port!
20:25*Nite_Owl runs and hides
20:25<Eddi|zuHause>a new map array doesn't touch that many lines
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20:25<Eddi|zuHause>that's why there are map accessors
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20:36<Chruker>Does valuables have any effect on towns? Other than banks being build in towns.
20:36<Nite_Owl>but if a new map array included subterranean levels that would cause an increase - no
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>Chruker: no cargo has any effect on towns except food and water
20:38<+glx>and passengers
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>only vehicles arriving at stations have an effect, it does not matter if they transport anything
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---Logclosed Thu Aug 06 00:00:39 2009