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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-14

---Logopened Fri Aug 14 00:00:17 2009
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02:07<nicfer>omg this is epic fail
02:07<nicfer>i was downloading the base graphics but it hang up at 100%
02:07<nicfer>3.20Mb out of 3.20Mb
02:08<nicfer>bytes, that is
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02:11<dihedral>and how long did you wait?
02:11<dihedral>and which os?
02:11<dihedral>and which version of openttd?
02:12<dihedral>nicfer, ^
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02:36<nicfer>like 20 minutes
02:36<nicfer>windows xp, openttd 0.7.2
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02:52<TrueBrain>awh, that is sad :(
02:52<TrueBrain>we should build in a download resumer! :P
02:53<TrueBrain>morning all
02:54<TrueBrain>how is this beautful day handling you?
02:54<dihedral>quite well
02:55<TrueBrain>do tell!
02:55<dihedral>i may work on a neatly set up svn server
02:55<dihedral>... + a php management tool for the svn repositories :-S
02:55<TrueBrain>if that aleady makes a good day, you normally have to work with terrible stuff :p
02:55<dihedral>it's my last day before 3 weeks off
02:56<dihedral>well - getting the hang of Zend Framework
02:56<TrueBrain>so then you finally are going to do the console stuff? :p
02:56<dihedral>makes it easier :-P
02:56<TrueBrain>Zend is nice :)
02:56<dihedral>i have to process like ... nothing?
02:56<dihedral>it's great - it has everything in pre-defined directories
02:56<TrueBrain>you can profile PHP sites :p
02:56<dihedral>you just add you stuff and once it works all is good
02:56<dihedral>uh yeah :-)
02:57<dihedral>+ zend optimizer in apache :-P
02:57<TrueBrain>as good as any other optimizer, but yeah :p
02:58<dihedral>well, if i have to do this php thing - i am at least trying to get it be released under GPL
02:58<dihedral>make a project out of it :-P
02:58<TrueBrain>I myself have to work on a PHP CMS the next few days .. blegh ..
02:58<dihedral>yeah - CMS is a bit heavier :-P
02:59<TrueBrain>well, closed source and shit ..
02:59<TrueBrain>own 'type' of XML
02:59<dihedral>yeah - i read that :-D
02:59<dihedral>[smile]too funny[/smile]
03:11<TrueBrain>releasedatum: 02/07/1904 <- looking through CD albums .. I doubt that date is valid
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03:19<nicfer>oh, it seems it was the internet connection
03:19<nicfer>expensive and slow
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04:17<pavel1269>hello :-)
04:17<TrueBrain>hello pavel1269
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04:48<dihedral>TrueBrain, 1904... was it a cd of a .... record?
04:49<TrueBrain>cd :p
04:51<dihedral>perhaps it was from 2004 and they used an old computer and only entered 04 :-D
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06:21<BaronChaos>hi, i'm having some fun with the TestAI. is there a way to get syntax/loading errors? i changed the GetShortName return to "MKI" and my ai wasn't shown and couldn't be loaded with start_ai, all it only says "failed to load" but not why. i think the short name is used somewhere else but it would be nice to be told that - is there an option/debugging level to get such messages?
06:21<@Rubidium>try -d ai=9 as command line parameter
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06:22<BaronChaos>thanks that works for me
06:22<@Rubidium>might very well be that the shortname isn't 4 characters
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07:06<planetmaker>whoa, you're really fast with OpenSFX, Rubidium :-) Kudos
07:07<TrueBrain>hmm .. we need a kudo scoreboard :p
07:08<planetmaker>you're one of the webmasters :-P
07:08<TrueBrain>enough other projects which have much higher prio :P
07:08<planetmaker>hehe :-)
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07:20<TrueBrain>lol, 15% of ours visitors is dutch ... 11% is US :p
07:20<TrueBrain>(well .. the recent stats at least suggest that outcome)
07:20<TrueBrain>I have my questionsmarks at these results, dunno why :p
07:21<TrueBrain>(last month it was 6% vs 15% :p)
07:23<planetmaker>got a link to the stats? :-)
07:23*planetmaker is curious
07:23<TrueBrain>sounds obvious, not? :p
07:23<planetmaker>hehe. might be a link which could be guessed :-)
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07:24<planetmaker>4GB traffic per month...
07:24<planetmaker>and rising
07:24<TrueBrain>4GB? Did you read it in any way correct? :p
07:25<planetmaker>I quoted the monthly totals...
07:25<@Rubidium>427032635 KiB
07:25<TrueBrain>how is that 4GB?
07:25<TrueBrain>in what math system can that ever be 4?
07:25<TrueBrain>when the unit is .. 100 bytes? :)
07:25<@Rubidium>427032635 KiB -> ~ 427032 MiB -> ~427 GiB
07:26<planetmaker>he... cumulative... yeah. in 4 billion kilobytes :-P
07:26*dihedral likes the look of that ~
07:26<planetmaker>yeah :-)
07:27*planetmaker needs coffein obviously
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07:27*dihedral feels moond
07:28*Sacro feels dihedral
07:28<TrueBrain>*gay alert*
07:29<Sacro>ooh *fantastic*
07:29*dihedral looks at the stats and smirks at googlebot
07:30<dihedral>847262 hits for last month :-P
07:30<TrueBrain>a total of 6 hits a second, and going up ..
07:30*Rubidium notes that those stats do no include the other stuff like svn/ottd_content
07:30<TrueBrain>http only, yes :)
07:30<TrueBrain>hmm .. svn proxy ..
07:30<TrueBrain>would be useful :p
07:31<planetmaker> /releases/0.7.1/openttd-0.7.1-windows-win32.exe is funnily enough noted twice in the top 30
07:31<planetmaker>oh, no. once exe, once zip
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07:31<TrueBrain>planetmaker: all stats before augustus are 'corrupted' in their URLs
07:31<TrueBrain>in aug I just disabled it :p
07:32<planetmaker>disabled what?
07:32<TrueBrain>do you read? :p
07:32<planetmaker>yes. But didn't look at August.
07:32<planetmaker>and url != all stats :-P
07:32<TrueBrain>I don't think planetmaker reads .. :(
07:32<dihedral>TrueBrain, i used to change the log file format to include the servername :-P
07:33<TrueBrain>dihedral: considered it, but it would be too slow :p
07:33<TrueBrain>I wish stats-thingies would be more clever, and detect the domain is in the log-file ..
07:33<dihedral>it would be too slow?
07:33<dihedral>how much too slow? and how come?
07:34<dihedral>or use a different log file per vhost :-D
07:34<dihedral>and then parse them into one and then run webalizer :_D
07:35<TrueBrain>funny, if we compare last year with this year, the bandwidth is doubled
07:35<TrueBrain>but the amount of visitors didn't
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07:35<TrueBrain>the hits did increase ..
07:35<TrueBrain>@calc 167/128
07:35<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 1.3046875
07:35<TrueBrain>with 30% ..
07:35<TrueBrain>@calc 427 / 244
07:35<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 1.75
07:35<dihedral>TrueBrain, website changed?
07:35<TrueBrain>either our pages got much bigger, or people use the more intense parts of it :p
07:35<dihedral>hits to media. and www. ?
07:36<TrueBrain>how about: binaries? :p
07:36<dihedral>so they are counted double :-P
07:36<dihedral>c'mon - let me be silly
07:36<TrueBrain>silly okay, but ther eis a point wher eI just don't follow you
07:36<dihedral>yeah - ok
07:36<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: bananas/content stuff takes a lot to
07:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: but that isn't in those graphs :p
07:37<dihedral>it would be interesting to see which subdomain comsumes which amount
07:37<TrueBrain>dihedral: make a tool which does so
07:37<dihedral>just feed it separate log files :-D
07:38<TrueBrain>you want a kick, or what?
07:38-!-OwenSX48BD is now known as OwenS
07:38*dihedral bounces around smiling
07:38<TrueBrain>I think someone needs to get late
07:38<TrueBrain>nasty typos ..
07:39<dihedral>and you dont just substitute the t for a d
07:39<OwenS>Thats a Think-o? :p
07:39<TrueBrain>nope .. fingers faster than brains capable of translating
07:39<TrueBrain>happens ;)
07:39<OwenS>Or perhaps a brain-o? :p
07:39<OwenS>Aah... wonderful buffer underruns
07:40<OwenS>At least on IRC you don't have to listen to people going "Erm" :p
07:40<TrueBrain>happens a bit too often :(
07:40<dihedral>TrueBrain, considered the nick "TrueFinger" :-D
07:40<TrueBrain>why does using google images on "getting laid" give you a female with GOOGLE on her shirt as one of the first hits?
07:40<TrueBrain>and then they say they are 'fair' in rating their pages?!
07:40<TrueBrain>HELL NO!
07:40<dihedral>why do you google "getting laid" on images?
07:41<TrueBrain>because I was wondering how good the anti-porno filter really was
07:41<TrueBrain>I found a penis so far :p
07:41<dihedral>now we for sure know you are male
07:41<TrueBrain> <- and this of course
07:41<dihedral>is that safe for work or not?
07:41<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: I take it you've heard of the Google Images Porn Game
07:41*Sacro yawns
07:42<TrueBrain>dihedral: not sure .. I think it is
07:42<dihedral>yeah - nothing new to you Sacro, is it
07:42<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: no?
07:42<Sacro>TrueBrain: that's highly illegal in most countries you know
07:42<dihedral>:-D LOL
07:42<OwenS>Sacro: Most?
07:42<Prof_Frink>Basically, think of some search terms, turn safesearch off and see how many pages before you get porn.
07:42<Sacro>OwenS: it's illegal in the UK
07:42<Prof_Frink>Whoever gets furthest wins.
07:43<Sacro>Prof_Frink: we did it with girls names
07:43<Prof_Frink>Sacro: You're illegal in the UK
07:43<dihedral>OwenS, Sacro always moves to the country it's not illegal in
07:43<Sacro>dihedral: no, i'm still int he UK
07:43<TrueBrain>I liked the game more where you have to find 2 search words that return exactly 1 reesult
07:43<dihedral>Sacro, and where is the VPN server?
07:43<Sacro>that didn't wirk
07:43<dihedral>TrueBrain, failure and bush
07:44<TrueBrain>Sacro: is that a 'first hit', or does that not fall under porn Prof_Frink?
07:44<TrueBrain>dihedral: 14300000 hits
07:44<TrueBrain>which translates to 0.14G in planetmaker math system
07:44<Sacro>Prof_Frink: 3 pages for 'gwyneth'
07:45<dihedral>since when do you calculate hits in G
07:45<dihedral>and since when are they then not / 1000
07:45<TrueBrain>dihedral: ask planetmaker!
07:45<dihedral>Prof_Frink, try lawnmower :-D
07:45<dihedral>that might get gross though :-D
07:45<dihedral>or vacuum cleaner
07:46<Sacro>dihedral: you'd call your daughter 'lawnmowe'?
07:46<Sacro>3rd pic
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07:46<TrueBrain>is that porn?
07:47<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: It's Sacro. Everything's porn.
07:47<dihedral>i guess marry poppins would not go far either
07:47<dihedral>lol @ Prof_Frink
07:47<TrueBrain> <- see, page 10
07:47<TrueBrain>then it shows porn
07:47<Sacro>actually, that might be
07:47<TrueBrain>(work safe, dihedral, I promise)
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07:47<dihedral>not in india
07:47<Sacro>5 page and no porn, broed now
07:48<dihedral>tux <- try that, that should get you far... unless..........
07:48<dihedral>and no, the bsd devil humping tux does not count as porn
07:48<dihedral>it's too........ fuzzy
07:48<TrueBrain>3rd page:
07:49<dihedral>that aint porn, that's a kids drawing
07:50<@Rubidium>when I thought the 'conversation' with petert was a low point...
07:50<TrueBrain>Rubidium: that is a different type of low :p
07:50<dihedral>tree :-P
07:51<dihedral>Rubidium, tread on it :-P
07:52<Prof_Frink>Oh look, the Sun's nicking stuff from b3ta again.
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08:24<@Rubidium>planetmaker: one thing I'm sure of with OSFX is that the quality isn't that great and that I'm primarily looking for reasonable samples and adding those; later people may worry about quality ;)
08:25<@Rubidium>you got to love some descriptions in the original though
08:26<@Rubidium>"maglev 2?" = sound of monorail
08:26<TrueBrain>in the original as found on the cd?
08:26<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: yes
08:26<TrueBrain>funny :)
08:27<@Rubidium>the sound "balloon squeak" is used for the falling tree of the lumberjack
08:27<TrueBrain>if it sounds good ... it sounds good :p
08:28<@Rubidium>"plane crashing" is used for toyland propellor planes taking off
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09:33<SpComb>safety rating three stars
09:36<SpComb>oh, a non-destructive bus test
09:36*Prof_Frink puts SpComb on the cornflake bus
09:37<dihedral>(unit 1)
09:37<Prof_Frink>(Cornflakes are, of course, the universal cereal)
09:38<planetmaker><Rubidium> "plane crashing" is used for toyland propellor planes taking off <--- haha :-)
09:38<planetmaker>that's good.
09:40<SmatZ>Prof_Frink: wtf is that?
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09:46<pavel1269>:-O ... my train just had a breakdown with breakdowns off ... :-O
09:47<SmatZ>pavel1269: UFO nearby?
09:49<pavel1269>disasters off
09:50<TrueBrain>sounds like you broke something :p
09:50<pavel1269>well, jsut tryed, "resetengines" may this help? i was a bit messing with grfs while playing ^^
09:52<TrueBrain>ah, there comes the monkey out of the sleve!
09:53<pavel1269>then, resetengines should be called automatically afte grf change in-game :-)
09:53<TrueBrain>then, you should not alter grfs in-game :p
09:54<pavel1269>i usually remember that, just while trying to build sth, what is not in the list :-)
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09:58<dihedral>"just" is just too much ;-)
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10:00<Alberth>Hmm, the /topic is apparently still lost.
10:02<@Rubidium>Alberth: really? I've got the topic as it should be
10:03<Alberth>If I type /topic it stays empty here but not in the dev channel
10:04-!-Rubidium changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.2 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, translator: translator, server list: servers, nightly-builds: nightly, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only
10:04<pavel1269>topic working as expected :-)
10:04<@Rubidium>does that help?
10:04<pavel1269>topic working as expected :-)
10:04<pavel1269>sorry ...
10:05<SpComb>servers lose topic-sync
10:06<Alberth>I did add IRC helper to my Pidgin for logging in, but different behavior for different channels is weird
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10:06<@Rubidium>Alberth: topic in the dev channel is updated automatically regularly
10:07<Alberth>he, it is back after disabling the IRC helper. Maybe it is just me.
10:09<@Rubidium>Alberth: might very well be that I (re)set the topic
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10:11<Alberth>I'll live a while without /topic, and keep an eye on things to see whether there is a pattern.
10:12<@petern>on the wiki "We also have a development community on our IRC channel" < points to #openttd
10:13<@petern>i suppose that should point to the hidden channel?
10:13<Alberth>that is not a community, just a bunch of people making random changes in the source code :p
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10:57<TrueBrain>downside of torrents .. when 1 person starts to seed, and 10 persons download, it goes faster than when 100 persons download (while still 1 person seeds)
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10:58<pavel1269>lol ... sure? ^^
10:58<+tokai>TrueBrain: depends on how smart the seed's client injects the initial copy into the swarm.
10:58<TrueBrain>it takes time to travel to other people, after which it starts to increase in speed ...
10:58<valhallasw>TrueBrain: well, that's true for the first blocks
10:59<TrueBrain>tokai: in this case, poorly :p
10:59<TrueBrain>okay, it has to be noted that the amount of people leeching went up from 3, to over the 500 now .. :p (in 10 minutes or so :p)
10:59<pavel1269>what are you seeding? :-)
10:59<valhallasw>but afaik most clients try to distribute as much data around the swarm as possible
10:59<+tokai>TrueBrain: sometimes the initial seed has to seed like 2 copies or such before someone else sees one full copy (because the client seeds same pieces multiple times, depending on peers requests :)
10:59<TrueBrain>my download went from 100 mbit to 10 mbit :p
11:00<TrueBrain>tokai: yeah ....
11:00<valhallasw>TrueBrain: just lie another cable to the other side of the road for those purposes!
11:00<TrueBrain>pavel1269: I am not seeding :p
11:00<pavel1269>tokai: use "start seed" feature?
11:00<TrueBrain>and if you want to know what I am leeching ... open a random torrent site, you will know when you see it :p
11:00<pavel1269>or however it is called
11:00<TrueBrain>bah, down to 3 mbit ...
11:01<pavel1269>sounds like a game ... is it a movie? :-)
11:01<TrueBrain>movie, 720p
11:01<+tokai>pavel1269: depends if the client has such feature:)
11:01<TrueBrain>the rest I leave to you :)
11:01<pavel1269>tokai: most have this ...
11:01<TrueBrain>would be nice to see the tree, where which blocks are loaded, at which speed, and what it does for average download time
11:02<TrueBrain>lol, I am no longer connected to the person seeding, that can explain my loss in speed :p
11:03<+tokai>best is to find some swedes or some japanese or korean guys, they usually have the best upload speeds :)
11:04<TrueBrain>well .. we run here all on 100 mbit, so that is not the real issue :p
11:04<pavel1269>TrueBrain: where the **** do you live? :-)
11:04*tokai has only 1mbit :D
11:04<TrueBrain>pavel1269: I myself have student housing
11:04<TrueBrain>but this whole torrent hub has only 100mbit users
11:05<TrueBrain>sometimes 10mbit, but those are rare :p
11:05<pavel1269>baaah, they should cut you off :P
11:05<TrueBrain>because I use the darn connection?
11:06<pavel1269>ye! :D
11:06<pavel1269>hmm, cant find anythink special, what just went "outside"
11:06*tokai doesn't find the HDTV OpenTTD video on random torrent sites :)
11:07<TrueBrain>it hit the usenet 37 minutes ago
11:07<TrueBrain>possible it is a p2p .. don't care so much about that :p
11:09<+tokai>Must be something weird that you're so ashamed of to mention its name. :P
11:09<TrueBrain>pavel1269: the dvdrip was 2 weeks ago, maybe that explains you missing it :p
11:09-!-Elton02612 [] has joined #openttd
11:09<TrueBrain>nah, I have been waiting for this money a long time :)
11:09-!-PhoenixII [] has joined #openttd
11:09-!-Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:09<pavel1269>well, i dont watch anythink that new ^^
11:09<TrueBrain>I refused to watch a certain other version of it :p
11:09<pavel1269>sounds like HP or sth new ...
11:10<TrueBrain>what kind of person do you think I am?
11:10<pavel1269>well, you know, TB ... :D
11:10<+tokai>Sounds like a 'censored-vs.-uncensored-pr0n' issue to me:)
11:10*tokai runs
11:10<TrueBrain>LOL! okay, my client was broken .. I re-announced myself, and now it picked up speed again :p
11:12<TrueBrain>pavel1269: either way,, nuff said :p
11:12<pavel1269>i know! Daffy Duck's Quackbusters! :D
11:12<valhallasw>TrueBrain: 5058kbps ViDEO, by any chance? :P
11:12<valhallasw>oh right
11:13<+tokai>The Real World S22E08?
11:13<TrueBrain>80 mbit down, 55 mbit up .. that are more the speed I expected :p
11:13<+tokai>wtf. :D
11:13<TrueBrain>tokai: YES!!!!
11:14<+tokai>Maybe I should check out Hannah Montana The Movie-ViTALiTY \o/ :D
11:14<TrueBrain>it is nice :p
11:14<TrueBrain>just ... they ... well .. they cut out pieces it looks like, and that makes it feel ... unfinished
11:14<+tokai>ah.. that seems to be a game or something
11:14<+tokai>well.. :)
11:14<TrueBrain>(the movie, that is)
11:15<TrueBrain>other movie tip: The Boat That Rocked
11:15<TrueBrain>lovely movie :)
11:15<+tokai>I didn't watch a movie since months I guess. I'm more watching my TV shows :)
11:16-!-lewymati [] has quit []
11:18<TrueBrain>your loss, I say
11:19<@Rubidium>also a TV show called "Learning C++ and compiling GCC 4 for MorphOS. The real story"? :)
11:20<+tokai>TrueBrain: Well, I watched Metropolis a few times actually. :)
11:20<TrueBrain>Rubidium: you are trying that? I once tried to apply a patch from tokai .. gave up on it :p
11:20<+tokai>all my patches were still in C back in the days:)
11:20<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: I've given up on it also
11:20<TrueBrain>it is sad :(
11:20<TrueBrain>MorphOS was nice to support :p
11:21<TrueBrain>too bad that community can't even produce a good modern compiler :p :p :p :p
11:21*TrueBrain hugs tokai
11:21<+tokai>We're currently busy with the Mac release, maybe if you have a old Mac mini/ PPC around you have a chance to try yourself:)
11:21<TrueBrain>the only ppc I have is PearPC :P
11:21<+tokai>TrueBrain: oh well.. we have various gcc 4's etc.
11:22<@Rubidium>... if we would have a mac I reckon the number of mac bug reports that are open for eons would be considerably lower
11:22<TrueBrain>the last gcc4 patch you gave me never came past the cross compile part :p
11:22-!-Antigon [~Poly@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:22<TrueBrain>Rubidium: that is exactly what I wrote Apple :)
11:22<+tokai>TrueBrain: ah.. you meant that pathc
11:22<TrueBrain>still no reply though :(
11:22<+tokai>TrueBrain: I thoght you were refering to OpenTTD patches
11:22<TrueBrain>no no :)
11:22<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: do you expect a reply? (I think hoping for a reply is the most we'll get)
11:23<TrueBrain>no, I expect it
11:23<+tokai>Bjarni isn't around anymore either?
11:23<TrueBrain>I emailed someone on his personal account, so I expect a reply
11:23<@Rubidium>when Bjarni is around he doesn't do anything remotely useful w.r.t. OpenTTD
11:23<@Rubidium>(except increasing the line count of #openttd)
11:24<+tokai>sounds like me:)
11:24<TrueBrain>and Bjarni also never managed to fix a few of those bugs (simply lack of knowledge, no offense meant)
11:24<+tokai>Tbh, I'm a little bit scared to try a compile of current trunk on MorphOS :)
11:24<+tokai>C++ scares me:)
11:24<TrueBrain>I guess you should ;)
11:24<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: don't be scared
11:24<TrueBrain>wrong tab
11:24<@Rubidium>it won't get to the C++ part
11:25-!-Wolle [] has joined #openttd
11:25<+tokai>last time i checked it looked like some more simple problems (conflicting types with system stuff and so on)
11:25<TrueBrain>so make some time and try it :p
11:25<TrueBrain>or donate us a machine where we can try it on :p :p
11:26<+tokai>I'm not that rich:)
11:26-!-Audigex [~audigex@] has joined #openttd
11:26<+tokai>TrueBrain: I got myself 2 machines donated actually:)
11:26<TrueBrain>I really hope Apple replies in a positive way .. then maybe we can fix those OSX problems and have a bit more stable binaries :(
11:26<Audigex>what's up with the apple version?
11:27<Audigex>from a curiousity point of view :) my osx knowledge is pretty much zilch
11:27<@Rubidium>Audigex: besides poor support for some core features?
11:27<@Rubidium>let me see...
11:27<TrueBrain>he joins, read something, and replies to it. Rarely a good thing :p
11:27<@Rubidium>no way to enter CJK characters
11:27<Audigex>i like to jump in halfway through a conversation
11:27<@Rubidium>sometimes the OS' mouse pointer doesn't get hidden
11:28<@Rubidium>moving the map with scrolling touchpad apparantly fails in some cases
11:28<+tokai>Rubidium: I doubt that would work in the MorphOS version either:)
11:28<Audigex>i had that on my eee pc at one point, couldn't replicate it though
11:28<+tokai>Rubidium: that CJK input
11:28<+tokai>not that it is important :)
11:28<TrueBrain>tokai: the question is: lack of OS, or lack of knowledge to add in OpenTTD? :p
11:28<+tokai>TrueBrain: no such thing in the OS yet.
11:28<TrueBrain>my point :)
11:28<@Rubidium>also the OSX port uses ancient stuff in the API, which isn't supported anymore in the newer versions (some stuff doesn't even work in 10.5 64 bits)
11:29<Audigex>so it's not even that it's awkward to hack it into the code to work in osx, it's just not possible?
11:29<Audigex>that is pretty shit
11:29<@Rubidium>then the OSX port doesn't do automatic font detection, which makes support for any non-ASCII language shitty
11:29<TrueBrain>none of the above is the fault of OSX. It is the fault of no Mac owned by any dev :p
11:30<+tokai>Rubidium: that's an advantage of MorphOS.. it has stable public APIs :) sometimes scary how some APIs on OSX change with each release:)
11:30<@Rubidium>not to mention the vast amount of tricks we have to do to keep OSX compiling
11:30<Audigex>no dev owns a mac?
11:30<Audigex>not even a hackintosh?
11:30<@Rubidium>Audigex: exactly
11:30<TrueBrain>we cross compile the binaries
11:30<TrueBrain>which is not really .. stable
11:30<@Rubidium>and last *we* tried to make a hackintosh VM we failed horribly
11:31<TrueBrain>tokai: OSX in fact does a nice job keepings its API clear, what belongs to what version
11:31<+tokai>Rubidium: usually projects use donations for financing required hardware (or are server support costs that high, nothing is left of (maybe little) donations)?
11:31<Audigex>checked the price of a mac lately?
11:31<Audigex>or in fact, ever
11:31<+tokai>I bought Macs lately
11:31<TrueBrain>I think using 1700 dollar is maybe a bit much :p
11:31<+tokai>you don't need a powermac for this, a mac mini is enough
11:31<+tokai>MacPro I meant
11:32<@Rubidium>tokai: a leased! OSX server costs TWICE what the current server costs
11:32<Audigex>i dont mind donating a fiver for the server costs
11:32<TrueBrain>tokai: and then the issue: to who does the hardware go? :p
11:32<@Rubidium>and then for the current server we got 2TB of bandwidth and the OSX one a few GB
11:32<+tokai>Rubidium: err. that'S not what I meant. I meant after you remove the server support costs from available donations you buy a small Mac from the rest for development
11:32<Audigex>even a small mac is ridiculously expensive
11:33<Audigex>for what it is
11:33<Audigex>you can build a basic windows box for £250 even without recycling any parts
11:33<TrueBrain>well, this year there is no need for a fundraiser to support the hosting, as we have enough to cover that. That is a plus for this year ;)
11:33<OwenS>Audigex: I built one for £200. Dual core Atom Mini-ITX
11:33<OwenS>Admittedly running Linux but Windows would run fine
11:34<+tokai>TrueBrain: of course to someone who is willing to spend time on the OSX port:)
11:34<TrueBrain>OwenS: 'fine' .. ;)
11:34<Audigex>owen, even more to my point
11:34<Audigex>but a mac mini is £500
11:34<TrueBrain>either way, tokai, it is way way way too expensive for one target
11:34<Audigex>even for the most basic one
11:34<@Rubidium>also a small OSX box would likely cause the compile farm's run to double
11:34<Audigex>let those who have the money to afford a mac (ie, more than sense) donate a mac mini
11:34<TrueBrain>tokai: either way, that is the reason we wrote Apple, to ask if they can do anything for us, if possible in the form of an XServe
11:35<Audigex>but it's a bit much to expect the windows users to fund the osx development
11:35<Audigex>*openttd on osx development
11:35<+tokai>TrueBrain: I don't think Apple will care enough for that. Sadly.
11:35<Audigex>made it sound like you were suggesting we all buy apple shares :)
11:35<Audigex>apple are hardly open source proponents
11:35<TrueBrain>we will see. Apple in general is pretty kind
11:35<Audigex>Their own version, iTTD, is more likely
11:36<TrueBrain>Microsoft on the other hand simply never ever replied on our request :(
11:36<TrueBrain>(even resends seem to go /dev/null)
11:37<Audigex>none of the big companies ever seem to respond to small projects
11:37<OwenS>Audigex: Apple are decent at Open Souce. See Darwin and Bonjour.
11:37<OwenS>And LLVM. And CUPS.
11:37<Audigex>last i checked, nobody's gotten a reply re the original ttd copyrights etc
11:37<TrueBrain>difference with Apple is, that I first called them :)
11:37<@Rubidium>hmm... cheapest mac requires a monitor, which they want to give you for a mere 850 euros
11:37<TrueBrain>Audigex: then you didn't checked (good)enough
11:38<@Rubidium>so you end up with a macbook of ~1000 euros
11:38<Audigex>TrueBrain: fair enough :) what did they say?
11:38<TrueBrain>nothing that helps us :)
11:38<@Rubidium>OwenS: ever tried to compile a compiler with apple as target?
11:39<Audigex>so they didn't even say no?
11:39<OwenS>Rubidium: Nope. You using Apple's GCC tree?
11:39<@Rubidium>OwenS: yes, the stuff from darwinsource
11:39<OwenS>Thats LLVM-GCC IIRC
11:40<TrueBrain>the binutils (cctools) are also an issue
11:40<OwenS>XCode for Snow Leopard (and Leopard?) ships LLVM-GCC
11:40<@Rubidium>not to mention the patching of the gcc from darwin source we need to do to be able to compile on a NON OSX machine
11:41<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the patching of cctools is worse :p
11:41<@Rubidium>e.g. the system libraries it looks at to determine what kind of compiler it is going to make
11:42<@Rubidium>true, that doesn't compile out of the box for shit on non-Apple
11:42<TrueBrain>at one point we added the md5 routine of OpenTTD to get it to work :p
11:43-!-TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:43<TrueBrain>there is a reason I (still) receive about 2 to 3 mails a month about cross compiling OSX :p
11:43<TrueBrain> <- about that :p
11:43<@Rubidium>OwenS: leopard at darwinsource (10.5.8) doesn't list llvm
11:44-!-LordAzamath [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]]
11:44<TrueBrain>hmm .. apple moved their site around :(
11:45<@Rubidium>nor does the source of gcc contain LLVM stuff (okay, it contains # APPLE LOCAL begin mainline llvm and an "end" for that in configure, but that's all)
11:46<TrueBrain>Rubidium: oeh, btw, gcc 5493 is out :p (we use 5490)
11:46<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: borink ;)
11:46<TrueBrain>oh, even 5572.10.2 ..
11:46<TrueBrain>oh, 5646
11:46<TrueBrain>I should learn to count :p
11:47<@Rubidium>gcc_42 you mean?
11:47<TrueBrain>in the gcc dir
11:47-!-|Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
11:48<Audigex>is there anywhere detailing the ottd server backend etc?
11:48<TrueBrain>anyway, I think we made our point about how difficult OSX has been for us :)
11:48<TrueBrain>Audigex: what 'backend' do you refer to?
11:49<+glx>we just need a dev with a mac :)
11:49<Audigex>well, just information about what servers there are, how they're linked and what they do
11:49-!-TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
11:49<TrueBrain>1 server, Quad Core, dedicated, 4 GB RAM, N GB HD (I wouldn't know), sponsored by LeaseWeb
11:49<TrueBrain>and a few TB of bandwidth .. can't remember
11:49<Audigex>and that does all the hosting and compiling etc?
11:50<TrueBrain>linux-vserver and virtualbox
11:50<TrueBrain>the first to seperate main services from secondaries
11:50<TrueBrain>the latter to give us nodes which do the compiles
11:51<+glx>we even natively compile for windows :)
11:51<Audigex>so the compilations are all done on virtual machines?
11:51<Audigex>just using some sort of cron job or other scheduler?
11:51<TrueBrain>other scheduler, I guess :p
11:51<TrueBrain>there are a max of 3 VMs active at any given time
11:51<Audigex>so it just runs 3, then as one finishes starts another?
11:51<TrueBrain>(4 cores .. 3 VMs, 1 per core .. leaves 1 core for other operations :p)
11:52<TrueBrain>target by target they are feeded to the VMs yes
11:52<TrueBrain>every new target starts with a clean VM
11:52<Audigex>are the compilers different for each system?
11:52<TrueBrain>every target needs another compiler mostly, yes
11:52<+glx>msvc for windows for example
11:52<TrueBrain>target being: windows 9x, windows NT+
11:53<TrueBrain>debian lenny
11:53<TrueBrain>debian etch
11:53<+glx>mingw for win9x
11:53<TrueBrain>linux 32bit
11:53<TrueBrain>etc etc .. they all need different compilers
11:53<TrueBrain>what glx says :)
11:53<TrueBrain>OSX is currently the only target we cross-compile
11:53<TrueBrain>the others are all 'native' to their VM
11:54<Audigex>thanks :)
11:54<TrueBrain>see, much more useful then a page which states that :p
11:54<TrueBrain>that would give a boring reading :)
11:54<Audigex>well, i doubt enough people want to know for an actual page
11:54<Audigex>i'z just doin me some learnin'
11:54<TrueBrain>I once considered writing it down .. but things change too fast
11:54<+glx>btw which gcc version is used for mingw ?
11:54<TrueBrain>doesn't get updated
11:54<TrueBrain>people complain ..
11:54<@Rubidium>but there already is a page that has all stuff
11:54<@Rubidium>glx: 3.ancient
11:55<Audigex>im going to go update the visual server 2008 express wiki page later
11:55<+glx>ha 3.4.5 then
11:55<@Rubidium>I'll check that though
11:55<Audigex>it doesnt explain it enough independently
11:55<+glx>4.4.0 is stable for mingw now
11:55<Audigex>i ended up spending longer on here
11:55<TrueBrain>which page?
11:55<@Rubidium>glx: 4.4.0 is a) buggy (as per SmatZ bug report) and annoying
11:56<Audigex>it's technically right
11:56<TrueBrain>ah, you refered to that :p
11:56<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: ;)
11:56<Audigex>but it doesn't explain particularly well
11:56<TrueBrain>Rubidium: hehehehehee :)
11:56<Audigex>needs more emphasis on certain things
11:56<Audigex>took me about 10 mins to find the project properties
11:56<TrueBrain>another logger ...
11:56<Audigex>too much assumed knowledge, basically
11:56-!-Pygma [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
11:57<Audigex>look at rubidium with his fancy word-caputring device
11:57<TrueBrain>it is not him, who does that :)
11:57<TrueBrain>bad assumption :p
11:58<Audigex>again :(
11:58<TrueBrain>either way, Audigex, if you want to know more technical aspects, feel free to ask
11:58<Audigex>thanks :)
11:58<Audigex>im mostly just working through the source code at the moment
11:58<Audigex>i can program nicely in java
11:58<Audigex>but projects are beyond anything i've ever done or had to do
11:58<TrueBrain>not something to be proud at
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>he has a device that can conserve spoken words through time! he's a witch!
11:58<Audigex>i know, uni like java though
11:58<TrueBrain>LOL @ Eddi|zuHause :)
11:58<TrueBrain>the only good Java did was javadoc :p
11:59<Audigex>i dont like it particularly
11:59<Audigex>it's okay as a learning tool, but IMO C++ would be more useful
11:59<Audigex>what's the point of learning without pointers and with garbage collection
11:59<Audigex>if you just have to unlearn those habits later
11:59<TrueBrain>the reason my uni teaches C++ :p
11:59<@Rubidium>Audigex: the point is that many uni people can't grasp pointers
11:59<OwenS>Hah! My college teaches VB.Net... Ew
12:00<@Rubidium>and go incredible haywire when they hear about them
12:00<Audigex>rubidium, true - but why dumb down the subject?
12:00<Audigex>oddly enough, my friend at a less prestigious uni learns c++ - and I learn java at the "better" uni
12:00<OwenS>I like a quote about MIT's CS course - half the class drops out when they introduce pointers :p
12:00<Audigex>okay, hardly oxbridge
12:00<@Rubidium>because uni isn't there to learn you how to program
12:00<Audigex>but still
12:00<@Rubidium>it's there to learn you the more abstract stuff of programming
12:00<Audigex>it's there to take your money and give you a degree
12:01<Audigex>but anyway, my point is that I can produce a pretty little program - and spout algorithms all day
12:01<TrueBrain>OwenS: poor teacher .. our teacher needed 2 classes to explain the concept of pointers, and everyone took it .. even non-IT people
12:01<TrueBrain>(they can't use them .. but they understand the concept :p)
12:01<Audigex>but putting it together into a proper project with svn, bug tracking and complex hierarchy
12:01<@Rubidium>wow... 2 classes about pointers?
12:01<Audigex>isn't something i've done
12:01<TrueBrain>Rubidium: the concept and the like, yes :p
12:01<OwenS>I think it's more a matter of MIT's course confusing half the students by diving head first into multi pointer indirection :p
12:01<@Rubidium>they just said: here's you problem, and oh... it has to be in C++
12:02<@Rubidium>which is how they 'teach' C++ here
12:02<TrueBrain>that is not teaching :)
12:02<TrueBrain>I was really really suprised by the course 'Introduction in Programming' (called differently, but okay)
12:02<@Rubidium>like in the real world: you have to write X and Y program, but we don't tell you everything you need to know
12:02<OwenS>Hmm... Time to refactor AlterVerse's AST to get the code generation out of it :p
12:02<TrueBrain>it was good .. even the most stupid people (read: girls) understood ...
12:03<OwenS>TrueBrain: Did they then have to write a project in C afterwards? :p
12:03<TrueBrain>(it was a class also given to astronomers)
12:03<TrueBrain>3 in fact
12:03<@Rubidium>exams where you had to program on paper... that was very challenging for some people
12:03<TrueBrain>and a written exam (where you had to write C++)
12:03<TrueBrain>which was the sucky part :p
12:03<Audigex>i can see the point of teaching it properly
12:03<Audigex>i've just finished my first year (pretty shit, mostly a repeat of a-level)
12:03<Audigex>but they basically hold your hand
12:03<Audigex>"do this, then do this, make this method like this"
12:04<Audigex>slowly turning into "here's a task, do it"
12:04<TrueBrain>you don't help someone who starves to dead by giving him a fish. Learn him how to fish. Not by doing the fishing for him, but by telling him how.
12:04<Audigex>i actually look forward to the day they dont even tell us what technologies to use
12:04<OwenS>I know the last computing exam here had as the last question the requirement that you write a function "in a high level language of your choice"
12:04<OwenS>I wondered if brainfuck was a high level language
12:04<Audigex>yes, but you've got to give them the fish while he's learning, or he'll die
12:05<@Rubidium>OwenS: you should've used whitespace!
12:05<OwenS>I was thinking that :p
12:05<Audigex>i love whitespace
12:05<TrueBrain>I would have done it
12:05<Audigex>i'd be so tempted
12:05<TrueBrain>really, I would
12:05<TrueBrain>and I would have made sure I would get my grade for it :p
12:05<OwenS>I decided against it on the basis I would need a bigger box. And more time :p
12:05<TrueBrain>for whitespace? Come on :)
12:05<TrueBrain>you just leave it mostly empty
12:05<Audigex>i just hate the way our questions go "make an ecommerce site which does x, y and z" ... "oh, and use JSP and XML"
12:05<TrueBrain>say the lineheight was 2px
12:06<Audigex>fucking JSP
12:06<OwenS>I once played with JSP. Can't say I enjoyed it
12:06<Audigex>"make an ecommerce site which does x, y and z" = 20 minute task in php using cake
12:06<Pygma>In a few months I'll be able to bitch about college too :P
12:06<TrueBrain>it is JAVA!
12:06<TrueBrain>awh, our Pygma is growing up
12:06<Audigex>"using jsp and xml"..... suddenly i'm fucking about with xpath for 3 hours
12:06<TrueBrain>they grow up so fast ...
12:06<OwenS>Audigex: I'd have been SOO tempted to use Jython ;p
12:07<Pygma>Yup, though not sure I classify as "our Pygma", not even sure I've ever really spoken in here much before... Don't even play openTTD
12:07<Audigex>i was indeed tempted to use jython
12:07<TrueBrain>then .. why are you here? (not to be rude or anything)
12:07<@Rubidium>Pygma: meet TrueBrain, he doesn't play OpenTTD either :)
12:07<Audigex>but i thought they'd think i'm taking the piss
12:07<Pygma>I played it a while ago and joined because I had a question, but never really got into it
12:07<TrueBrain>into the question?
12:08<TrueBrain>Rubidium: don't be mean! :p
12:08<Pygma>into the game
12:08<TrueBrain>Pygma: I was joking :)
12:08<Audigex>i dont play ottd much, i've spent the last 3 months in game trying to faithfully reproduce the UK network
12:08<Audigex>but i havent put any trains on yet
12:08<TrueBrain>I can't remember the last time I played for more than 5 minutes ......
12:08<Audigex>and then i just realised that i used a non-trunk version of the game to do it, so i cant even show anyone :(
12:08<TrueBrain>(which is mostly to test this or that ...)
12:08<OwenS>Audigex: I suppose it wouldn't be much JSP if your file consisited of <% import my.jython.module; Pages.Something(request, response); %>
12:08<TrueBrain>Rubidium: but when is the last time you played?
12:08<Pygma>Ah I wasn't sure, I've confused some people before without knowing it by using phrases they'd never heard, so i'm never sure
12:09-!-oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
12:09<Audigex>OwenS: nope, i think that the idea was that it was all jsp
12:09<@Rubidium>hmm... copy paste patch from 129 KiB -> 190 KiB... what has gone wrong?
12:09<OwenS>Doesn't JSP support other languages yet? :P
12:09<TrueBrain>a wopping 60000 lines
12:09<TrueBrain>and you have that difference :p
12:10<Audigex>i doubt they even know any other languages
12:10<Audigex>at least 2 of my lecturers graduated from the same uni
12:10<Audigex>they learned java, so we have to learn java
12:10<TrueBrain>that is fair;y normal :p
12:10<@Rubidium>ah... I see... they seem to have reverted some trunk fixes
12:10<Pygma>129KiB to 190KiB due to lineends would mean each line was on average 2 characters long
12:10<TrueBrain>and as one of my teachers says: JAVA IS THE LANGUAGE OF THE ENGINERING WORLD
12:11<TrueBrain>90% of the job openings are JAVA related
12:11<TrueBrain>on which I say that that is because nobody wants to take that job
12:11<TrueBrain>and then I am asked never to speak again ..
12:11<Pygma>I believe I'll be learning Java in first year, then C++ afterwards... I already know C++ though
12:11<Audigex>java is an okay language for most tasks, but it's the right language for no tasks
12:11<Audigex>it tries to be all things to all people
12:11<TrueBrain>well said Audigex
12:12<@Rubidium>and he screwed up the diff by adding .orig files too
12:12<Audigex>their big "plus" point is that it's cross platform
12:12<TrueBrain>Rubidium: who? :p
12:12<OwenS>Audigex: I have a feeling the head of my college's computing department knows no languages other than VBA and VB.Net.. and perhaps Prolog. AKA no languages anyone actually uses.
12:12<@Rubidium>(or almost everything that's automatically generrated)
12:12<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: KingNimby
12:12<TrueBrain>ah .. don't care :p
12:12*tokai still prefers the best assembly language mankind ever has implemented: C (the one without ++ or other funky chars as prefix or suffix :)
12:12<TrueBrain>OwenS: teaching VB is just sad
12:12<TrueBrain>tokai: C89?
12:12<Audigex>i learned vb in college
12:12<OwenS>TrueBrain: Not sad. TORTURE.
12:13<Audigex>what a waste of 7 months
12:13<+tokai>TrueBrain: works for me:)
12:13<TrueBrain>VB is like a language you will never EVER use in any sane commercial product
12:13-!-Antigon [~Poly@] has joined #openttd
12:13<TrueBrain>I worked at a highschool, and they bought a product, that was advertised as the best int he market
12:13<+glx>it's useful in excel :)
12:13<OwenS>Audigex: I agree on the waste of time. I'm not taking it in my second year :p
12:13<+glx>but that's all
12:13<TrueBrain>I strongly suggested them not to buy .. as I have seen the demo: VB!
12:13<TrueBrain>what a waste of money it was ... omg ...
12:13<TrueBrain>glx: it is a nice SCRIPTING language, and it should be used as such :p
12:14<Audigex>java just seems to have no advantages to me
12:14<Audigex>the API has been over-made
12:14<Audigex>it's too complex
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: apparently you can use it in INSANE commercial products
12:14<Audigex>they'd be better off actually removing some of it
12:14<OwenS>I've only seen a couple of nice VB apps. One was an webapp and the other a Windows Form app. They did have some pretty good developers though
12:14<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: yeah ... insane product it was ....
12:14<Audigex>and why the fuck you can't compile direct to machine code is beyond me
12:14<TrueBrain>that is basic
12:14<Audigex>i can understand wanting to half-compile half-interpret in some situations
12:14<TrueBrain>from QBASIC on, that was not possible
12:14<OwenS>Though "pretty good" is relative when I could code faster than them in high school...
12:15<Audigex>but 99% of the time i'd want a native binary
12:15<Audigex>which java doesnt like
12:15<Audigex>need a wee wee
12:15<+tokai>what's a wee wee? a nap or a walk to the special place?
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>is that remotely related to a Wii?
12:15<TrueBrain>it doesn't sound like a nap to me :)
12:16*tokai checked Google and knows now one more useless thing.
12:17<Audigex>haha, you just googled wee wee?
12:17<TrueBrain>"eliminate urine" <- LOL!!
12:17<TrueBrain>I now see weird methods to do so :)
12:17<+tokai>Audigex: yes. One way to find out what it means, right? :)
12:17<Audigex>well, it works
12:18<TrueBrain>something to do with torches
12:18<Audigex>i thought it was more common a word than that
12:18<Audigex>truebrain - that's illuminate
12:18<Audigex>eliminate = get rid of
12:18<TrueBrain>illuminate has to do with light
12:19<Audigex>wait, now im confused
12:19<TrueBrain>I meant holding a flamethrower over it to eliminate the urine
12:19<OwenS>Anyone got any suggestions on the best way to separate code generation from my AST? Hmm...
12:19<TrueBrain>or to get a knife and try to kill it
12:19<Audigex>ah, i thought you meant a torch as in batteries and bulb
12:19<TrueBrain>OwenS: rm -rf AST/*
12:19<TrueBrain>no, as in a flame
12:19<Audigex>and shine it into the stream of urine to light it up
12:19<Audigex>it'd be like optical fibre
12:19<OwenS>TrueBrain: ... I mean the best interface to implement to do so -.-
12:19<TrueBrain>owh ...
12:19<TrueBrain>my bad :p
12:19<Audigex>"the network's down" "quick, piss into this router and shine a torch into it"
12:20<TrueBrain>yeah ... but how do you eliminate urine?
12:20<OwenS>TrueBrain: Antimatter!
12:20<TrueBrain>I am going to have some dinner
12:21<Audigex>couldn't you just evaporate it?
12:21<TrueBrain>you guys scare me
12:21<Audigex>leaving you with the proteins and amino acids
12:21<TrueBrain>Audigex: as I said: use a flamethrower
12:21<OwenS>Audigex: And Urea
12:21<Audigex>urea = amino acids and proteins?
12:21<OwenS>i thought it was a compound of it's own/
12:22<Audigex>A water-soluble organic compound, CO(NH2)2, formed by the metabolism of proteins and excreted in the urine
12:22<Audigex>i think it's slightly more complex than amino acids and protein, but pretty much :)
12:22<Audigex>the point being, osx sucks
12:22<OwenS>Protiens are quire complex :p
12:22<TrueBrain>no, OSX is nice .. not having the hardware sucks :p
12:23<Audigex>i dont like the OS
12:23<Audigex>used a mates macbook pro a few times, it just seems fiddly to me
12:23<Audigex>i'd probably get used to it, but i'll stick with my w7 box for now
12:24<OwenS>I'm going to question the legality of that Windows 7 box. Firstly because IIRC it's not out yet. Secondly because I know how stiffed Europe is being with MS' upgrade prices.
12:25<Audigex>owens: release candidate
12:25<Audigex>completely free, 100% legal
12:26<Audigex>it's limited, so it'll stop working next march(?)
12:26<OwenS>100% timebombed
12:26<Audigex>but i dont need it to last that long
12:26<Audigex>my uni is part of the msdnaa (academic alliance)
12:26<OwenS>I switched to Linux when I got pissed that MS were only going to OEM XP x64 with x64 processors
12:26<Audigex>so i get all windows software apart from office for free
12:26<OwenS>You can't use MSDN apps for anything other than software development. It's in the terms of use.
12:26<Audigex>it's the academic alliance
12:27<Audigex>so it's slightly different
12:27<Audigex>i can use it for any non-profit use I like
12:27<Audigex>so i'll just get w7 when it appears on the aa network share
12:27<Audigex>and i even get to keep it after i finish uni :)
12:28<+glx><OwenS> I switched to Linux when I got pissed that MS were only going to OEM XP x64 with x64 processors <-- that's logical for OEM, there have been too many abuses
12:28<OwenS>glx: I mean no retail sales. You HAVE to buy it with a processor
12:28<+glx>like buy a mouse to get OEM windows
12:28<OwenS>glx: Which meant I would have to buy a new CPU with it... No thanks at all.
12:28<Audigex>that is a bit shit :s
12:29<Audigex>the academic alliance is awesome though
12:29<Audigex>really upped my respect for microsoft
12:29<OwenS>I went Linux cold turkey... And haven't looked back since.
12:30<Audigex>i'd be a lot more willing to go linux if the wireless networking was up to par
12:30<@Rubidium>Audigex: in what way is the AA license awesome?
12:30<Audigex>i've got three different dongles, one pci card and two laptops with built in wireless
12:30<Audigex>rubidium - it's awesome for my needs
12:30<OwenS>Linux comes broken... But once you do a little fixing, no work updating it (It's a click every now and again), no need for AV software, no need for anti spyware software. Once it works.... it just stays working
12:30<@Rubidium>like the most important thing is not included: Office
12:30<@Rubidium>okay, you get the plus pack for Windows 95, but who cares about that?
12:31<Audigex>office is the only thing not included, and there's a seperate offer to get office for £30
12:31<OwenS>Rubidium: Last time I saw MSDN... You could get MS-DOS 6.22...
12:31<Audigex>which i was happy to pay, since i dont like open-office
12:31<@Rubidium>OwenS: you still can!
12:31<OwenS>Windows comes working but has a breaking itself fetish
12:31<OwenS>Rubidium: And Win 3.11!
12:31<Audigex>i've never had a problem with windows
12:31<Audigex>ME and 98 were iffy, but i moved onto xp 4 years ago and haven't had an issue since
12:32<Audigex>that xp box is still running happily with only one reformat after 2 years
12:32<OwenS>I personaly prefer not to waste a core on AV software :p
12:32<Audigex>vista laptop is perfectly happy
12:32<Audigex>and my windows 7 box flies
12:32<@Rubidium>glx: CF runs gcc 3.4.5 (mingw-vista special r3)
12:33<Audigex>the hard drive is crap, but thats harldy their fault
12:33<Audigex>i've only ever seen one bluescreen on vista
12:33<+glx>Rubidium: that's what I used before upgrading to gcc-4.4.0
12:33<Audigex>and no non-overclock related on on w7
12:33<OwenS>Audigex: Plus. once you learn BASH, you'll never want to go back :p
12:33<+glx>bash works on windoxs :)
12:34<OwenS>glx: Yes. But Windows' CLI interface is horrid
12:34<Audigex>i like GUIs
12:34<OwenS>So do I. But the CLI is so much faster it's silly
12:35<+glx>it's not windows, it's PE :)
12:35<Audigex>i do so little with the actual os though
12:35<Audigex>i've got a well laid out hard drive, so any file is 3 clicks away
12:35<+glx>why did they imagine a flag to specify CLI or GUI would be useful
12:35<@Rubidium>oh, just a quick question: why does a clean Windows 2003 (x64) + MSVC 2008 (incl x64) take almost 20 GB?
12:35<@Rubidium>it scared the hell out of me
12:35<Audigex>and the search bar on the vista/w7 start bar makes programs easy to get to
12:36<OwenS>Vs a Ubuntu install (Kernel + Userspace + GCC + OpenOffice) at 1.2GB? :p
12:36<Audigex>windows does take a ridiculous amount of hard drive space... in comparison to other os's
12:36<OwenS>Audigex: On KDE, Alt+F2 and start typing :p
12:36<Audigex>but hard drive space has massively outpaced windows bloat
12:36<OwenS>RAM hasn't
12:37<Audigex>owen - that means you have to remember hard drive and folder names
12:37<Audigex>i have 4gb in this box, cost me all of £35
12:37<OwenS>No it doesn't. It opens files, executables, and menu items
12:37<Audigex>and windows is plenty happy enough with it
12:37<Audigex>it still means you have to remember the file, executable or menu name
12:37<+glx>yeah vista uses 1GB when idling
12:37<@Rubidium>Audigex: not when you multiply the number of Windowses on you machine by a relatively large number
12:38<OwenS>Audigex: It's like Vista's search
12:38<Audigex>rubidium, i'm yet to use over 2.5gb
12:38<OwenS>I'm currently at 1.8GB in use... Half of that is my Opera tab collection (It's huge); 400MB is SunStudio; rest is baseline KDE + Kopete + Konversation + Other apps
12:38<@Rubidium>like... you need 4+ versions of XP to test roughly all cases; the Korean Windows XP is significantly different from the rest
12:39<@Rubidium>so is the Chinese Windows XP
12:39<Audigex>IMO linux does itself more damage than good
12:39<+glx>yeah we had fun with these VMs :)
12:39<Audigex>i love when linux users bash windows for having so many versions
12:39<Audigex>"vista basic, home basic, home premium, enterprise and ultimate... lol"
12:40<@Rubidium>Audigex: I'm not bashing them for that
12:40<Audigex>then i look at how many distributions of linux there are
12:40<Audigex>no, i changed subject slightly there
12:40<@Rubidium>I'm bashing them for having 3+ versions with THE SAME FRACKING NAME AND VERSION NUMBER that are NOT the same
12:40<OwenS>And each taking ~5GB of HD space for less than Linux does in 1GB :p
12:40<Audigex>bashworthy :)
12:40<OwenS>Audigex: And you only need to know one word, really: Ubuntu. If you're a big business, two: Red Hat
12:41<+glx>with different behaviour regarding fonts and registry
12:41<Audigex>owen - but the community are so determined to run a load of different distros
12:41<Audigex>don't get me wrong, i'm not a windows fanboy-ubuntu hater - i just dont have a problem with windows
12:41<Audigex>but why the hell does ubuntu need gnome and kde? and then some programs which don't work on both
12:42<Audigex>plus xfce and a handful of others
12:42<OwenS>Audigex: Because some people prefer KDE and some Gnome. IMO, KDE is better
12:42<@Rubidium>Audigex: 1) Ubuntu only has gnome, Kubuntu has KDE
12:42-!-Antigon [~Poly@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:42<Audigex>rubidium, kubuntu = ubunti with kde instead of gnome, so for the purposes of my argument it's the same os with a different DE
12:42<OwenS>XUbuntu is for constrained (Read: Old) systems. Mythbuntu is for home theater PCs
12:43<Audigex>kubuntu is no different from ubuntu other than the desktop environment
12:43<Audigex>xubuntu is fantastic
12:43<OwenS>Audigex: Answer is that theres a ~50-50 split between KDE and Gnome people :p
12:43<Audigex>it's on my sister's old laptop and is faster than xp ever was
12:43<Audigex>owen, 50% of the people need to give up for the sake of the community
12:43<Pygma>The cool 50% of people use KDE, the losers use GNOME
12:43<Audigex>until there's some cohesion linux isn't going anywhere
12:43<@Rubidium>Audigex: really?
12:43<+glx>why, choice is good
12:44<@Rubidium>Audigex: so lets drop Firefox and Opera
12:44<@Rubidium>because MSIE has the most market share
12:44<Audigex>not what i'm saying ;)
12:44<@Rubidium>ofcourse, that'd mean no new MSIE versions for many years to come until a new Firefox appears
12:44<Audigex>although i get your point
12:45<Audigex>but basically, gnome and kde are splitting an already small market share, and confusing those who'd like to swap onto linux
12:45<Audigex>i'm pretty technical - but i had to spent a few hours researching, and even then i wouldn't want to choose between kde and gnome
12:45<Audigex>it just wouldn't be informed enough
12:46<Audigex>linux is for technical minded users and will stay niche until there's a concerted effort to make it appealing to the wider audience
12:46<@Rubidium>Audigex: and chosing between Windows and Linux is an "informed" choice for many people?
12:46*Rubidium doesn't run either gnome or kde though
12:46<Audigex>no, for most it's "windows is all that exists"
12:46<Audigex>but the point is that it's a lot harder to persuade people to swap if there are decisions to make about it
12:46<Audigex>"use linux, it's better than windows"
12:46<Audigex>"but which linux?"
12:46<@Rubidium>reminds me of those people
12:46<Audigex>"but which ubuntu"
12:47<Audigex>i understand that some prefer kde or gnome - but neither are flawed
12:47<OwenS>I always say "Use KUbuntu". Everyone I know who's switched has been happy with it :p
12:47<Audigex>they're just strong in different ways
12:47<Alberth>welcome to open source where *you* get to chose, instead of the manufacturer.
12:47<Audigex>unlike ie vs firefox
12:47<@Rubidium>,139023769,339294810,00.htm <- they don't know windows
12:47<Audigex>i just think that kda and gnome would be better off by combining their efforts
12:48<Audigex>they're not so different that they couldn't be reconciled
12:48<Audigex>okay, some compromises would have to be made
12:48<OwenS>One is C and GTK. The other is C++ and QT
12:48<Alberth>just the basic GUI toolkit :)
12:48<Audigex>a lot of the time, though, they spend twice as long in development
12:48<Audigex>putting the same basic features into each
12:49<Alberth>like us, they are volunteers, and they do what they like to do
12:49<OwenS>GNOME tends to be full of people who develop for it because they're FSF fanatics. KDE tends to be full of people who are more pragmatic and are more concerned about the outcome.
12:49<@Rubidium>Audigex: doubling the number of developers seldomly double the amount of work that gets done
12:49<Audigex>yes, but they're basically building it for themselves
12:49<Audigex>i know, my argument is flawed
12:49<OwenS>After alll... Gnome developed because the FSF got it's knickers in a knot about Qt licensing
12:49<@Rubidium>more developers => more/bigger discussions => more disagreement => less work that gets actually done
12:49<Audigex>but geeks building their own versions isn't going to get anywhere
12:50<Audigex>i know it'll never change
12:50<Audigex>and thats why i think linux will forever be niche in the home market
12:50<Alberth>I doubt most geeks care about market share
12:51<+glx>Audigex: beginners have no problems using linux (as they never used windows either)
12:51<@Rubidium>the 'major' problem with geeks not being in a company is that they don't cut corners as often
12:51<@Rubidium>that's what slows most stuff down a bit
12:51<Audigex>glx - nobody begins with linux though, in the western world
12:51<SmatZ>Audigex: my mother?
12:52<Audigex>pah, always an answer
12:52<Audigex>i need to be more specific
12:52<Audigex>"the vast majority of people in the western world learn windows due to the monopoly in schools and high prevalence of windows in that environment"
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12:53<SmatZ>ok :)
12:53<OwenS>A German education authority recently went KDE IIRC
12:53<Audigex>one authority
12:53<Audigex>it's happening
12:53<Audigex>but it's slow
12:53<Audigex>and very little publicised
12:54<Audigex>i do hope that linux takes off more
12:54<Audigex>i think it'd be a big plus point
12:54<Audigex>i've nothing against windows, but competition is always a good thing
12:54<@Rubidium>throwing lots of money in advertisement usually means that your product isn't good enough to be sold due to word-of-mouth
12:54<Audigex>and apple just doesn't compete the same
12:54<@Rubidium>or whatever it's called
12:54<Audigex>as soon as more governmental agencies etc realise how much cheaper linux is
12:54<Audigex>and therefore how much more of their budget can be used on their own bonuses
12:54<Audigex>it'll be away
12:55<@Rubidium>Audigex: only as soon as more governmental agencies look more in the future than 1 year...
12:55<Audigex>it'll happen, eventually
12:55<@Rubidium>cause 1 year TCO of Linux (if you have Windows) is massively more expensive
12:55<Audigex>the migration would be the expensive bit
12:56<Audigex>it'll start in schools
12:56<Audigex>they could all start using linux now on dual-boot
12:56<Audigex>and teach both
12:56<Audigex>but why confuse the kids?
12:56<+glx>in school it's different, they usually have very old stuff
12:56<@Rubidium>gheheh, I already ran Linux in highschool 10 years ago
12:56<SmatZ>do you think it would be confusing?
12:56<+glx>because there's no budget
12:56<Audigex>i think it could be, because the teachers themselves won't know linux well enough
12:56<@Rubidium>and uni has been using dual boot since I started that
12:56<Audigex>if the teacher themselves muddle through it
12:57<Audigex>glx: my schools were better equipped than my college and uni are
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>our school had exactly one linux computer
12:57<SmatZ>Audigex: as if they knew Windows... (at least here... some pupils knew far more than teachers)
12:57<Audigex>ours had none, but it had a lot which were capable
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't get along with it really well...
12:57<Audigex>i knew more than my teachers
12:57<@Rubidium>SmatZ: at highschools some pupils usually know more than the admins
12:57<Audigex>at one point, my detention for accessing the file share system was showing the techs how to stop someone else doing it
12:58<Audigex>but that's still a handful of kids per year
12:58<Audigex>i only left high school 3 years ago
12:58<SmatZ>Rubidium: we had some geeky admin, so it wasn't the case :)
12:58<Audigex>but still too high a percentage of my year had no it skills
12:58<+glx>in middle school we had MO5 network
12:58<Audigex>or nothing of value
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>it was fun watching three teachers diagnose the BNC network here ;)
12:59<+glx>missing terminator ?
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13:00<Eddi|zuHause>not really sure anymore... probably more like broken cable or network card
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>it was not the easiest network ;)
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>we had three computer cabinets and a handful of lone computers spread over the building
13:00-!-Lakie [~Lakie@] has joined #openttd
13:00<+glx>yeah one little thing breaks all the network
13:00*Rubidium remembers BNC network cards that could become a terminator using some software setting... those were fun!
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>it was kind of stretching the distance limits as well...
13:01<+glx>SCSI chains were nice too
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13:02<Eddi|zuHause>our "networking" semester kind of consisted of us chatting with netmeeting ;)
13:07<SmatZ>fonsinchen: there seems to be a problem with the smallmap-zoom patch, when the window is opened, the "+" button isn't greyed out, and the button next to it is pressed for few ticks
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13:11<fonsinchen>well, probably something isn't properly initialized
13:11<fonsinchen>I'll have a look at it.
13:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17168 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: apply coding style to if and while statements
13:14-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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13:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17169 /trunk/src/ (misc/crc32.hpp network/core/host.cpp npf.cpp widget.cpp): -Codechange: apply coding style to some for statements
13:14<Audigex>is the smallmap being updated?
13:14<Audigex>i thought i got a sniff of someone working on it, but i've forgotten what they were doing
13:15<fonsinchen>There is a smallmap zooming patch.
13:15<fonsinchen>Actually 3
13:16<Audigex>making it actually useful again?
13:16<fonsinchen>I hope so.
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13:17<Audigex>two questions
13:17<Audigex>what files are the advanced settings window and the cheat window found in
13:17<Audigex>well, one question - two answers
13:17<Audigex>or at least, what sort of direction should i be looking?
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: hey. i wanted to say that.
13:18<Audigex>rubidium, i got that much ;)
13:18<Audigex>thanks smatz
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: what are you trying to say there?
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13:21<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: i was trying to contribute to the BNC discussion by showing another way of connecting coaxial ethernet.
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>then why don't you say that?
13:22-!-^Spike^ is now known as ^spike^
13:23<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: the discussing with pure urls principle.
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13:23<fonsinchen>smatz, which button is pressed for a few ticks?
13:24<fonsinchen>The "center" or the "zoom out" one?
13:24<SmatZ>the button next to "zoom in"
13:24<fonsinchen>(it doesn't happen here)
13:24<fonsinchen>vertically or horizontically next
13:24<SmatZ>I would say "zoom out" else :)
13:24<SmatZ>the one with the "minimap" icon
13:25<SmatZ>SM_WIDGET_CONTOUR I htink
13:26<SmatZ>fonsinchen: no, actually SM_WIDGET_CENTERMAP
13:27-!-^spike^ is now known as ^Spike^
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13:28<OwenS>Hmm... Anyone know a tool to convert the encoding of file names?
13:28<SmatZ>fonsinchen: actually, it would be nice if only drawing was done in OnPaint()... the window system is going this direction
13:29<SmatZ>but that can be done later
13:29<OwenS>It appears I have a bunch of file names encoded in SHIFT-JIS -_-
13:29<SmatZ>(eg. not disabling/enabling widgets in OnPaint() and such)
13:32<@Rubidium>OwenS: iconv?
13:33<OwenS>Doesn't that just do contents?
13:33<_ln>iconv is... not the optimal solution if there's more than a few files.
13:33<@Rubidium>can you just dump the filename and run iconv over that?
13:33<_ln>OwenS: use convmv instead.
13:33<SmatZ>OwenS: share that directory via samba and set the encoding there?
13:34<OwenS>SmatZ: I don't fancy transfering ~2GB of stuff over 100mbit ethernet
13:34<OwenS>I've found convmv and am installing it =)
13:34<@Rubidium>why? that's like 20 seconds?
13:34<@Rubidium>uhm... 200 seconds ;)
13:34<@Rubidium>a mere 3 minutes
13:35<SmatZ>you could copy it locally
13:35<@Rubidium>that's way faster than a OSX compile of OpenTTD
13:37<+glx>or an MSVC release build of openttd
13:37<_ln>"the great wall of china took less time to build than OpenTTD on OS X"
13:38<@Rubidium>MSVC release build is considerably faster than OSX compiles
13:38-!-xmakina [] has joined #openttd
13:39<Lakie>Isn't the OSX compiler gcc (or a cross compile through mingw) or do they use a more speciallized one?
13:39-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
13:40<_ln>it's Apple's edition of gcc.
13:40<_ln>which, btw, had support for precompiled headers way before the vanilla gcc did.
13:41<OwenS>The files are UTF-8
13:41<OwenS>The issue is apparently somewhere on the Samba pipe between machines
13:42<OwenS>As in... my machine reports junk
13:43-!-reldred1 [~reldred@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:44<OwenS>Note to self: Stop trying to use pfexec on Linux
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17170 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 91 changes by Tvel
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by Kwokfu
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: greek - 76 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 48 changes by pinochioxy
13:46-!-Elton02612 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:49<fonsinchen>fixes the problem with depressed center map and non-invalidated "+"
13:50<fonsinchen>but I'll post a new version of the patch, too - tomorrow
13:51<OwenS>Got it!
13:51<OwenS>For those interested: On all machines set "dos charset=UTF-8", then in /etc/fstab set iocharset=utf8
13:52<TrueBrain>no thank you
13:55<TinoDidriksen>OwenS, Samba usually handles that transparently. Must have an interesting setup to run into that problem.
13:55<TrueBrain>My Samba (default setup) can't send any UTF-8 filename
13:55<TrueBrain>becomes 8.0 filename ..
13:55-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:56<OwenS>TinoDidriksen: It defaulted to CP437 IIRC on both my Ubuntu and Solaris boxes for the server charset, and I don't know what for the client charset
13:56<TrueBrain>steps to reproduce: install Gentoo && emerge -av samba
13:56<Audigex>i really want to start a new distributed computing project
13:56<OwenS>Steps to reproduce: apt-get install samba (Ubuntu) or pkg install SUNWsamba (Solaris) :p
13:56<Audigex>shakespeare @ home
13:56<TrueBrain>so I think TinoDidriksen doesn't has his facts straight :)
13:56<OwenS>This doesn't involve virtual monkeys? :P
13:56<Audigex>thats the idea
13:56<TrueBrain>Audigex: DO IT! :)
13:57<TinoDidriksen>I just know I've never had to fiddle with filename encoding between Windows and Linux over Samba...
13:57<Audigex>each client just randomly produces letters
13:57<Audigex>and compares it to shakespeare
13:57<TrueBrain>TinoDidriksen: the fact that you didn't isn't any argument why in general it should work or that when it doesn't work it shoudl give an interesting setup :p
13:57<Audigex>first we'll try with "whole words"
13:57<Audigex>then paragraphs
13:57<Audigex>then pages
13:57<OwenS>TinoDidriksen: Do you regularly exchange non-ASCII/Non-ISO-8859(?) characters?
13:57<TrueBrain>Audigex: and the use is ...? :)
13:57<Audigex>then individual plays
13:57<Audigex>and finally the entire works of shakespeare
13:58<OwenS>Audigex: Then record the PRNG parameters required? :p
13:58<Audigex>to prove whether or not a million monkeys on a million typewriters for a million years could eventually produce the works of shakespeare
13:58<Audigex>although i think an average quad core is faster than a monkey
13:58<Audigex>so we won't need a million yeasr
13:58<OwenS>I think it's faster than ~1000 monkeys. per core.
13:59<Audigex>we just need to work out the average keystroke rate of a monkey
13:59<TrueBrain>hmm ... well, if you random pick letters you might be able to
13:59<Audigex>and adjust from it
13:59<TrueBrain>but else ...
13:59<OwenS>(Assuming a computationaly expensive RNG)
13:59<TrueBrain>how long is a work of shakespeare?
13:59<Audigex>the complete works is quite long
13:59<Audigex>thats the idea
13:59<TrueBrain>given we only use the 26 letters on the keyboard
13:59<Audigex>i want to find out how many years and how many monkeys it would take
13:59<TrueBrain>and say ... 10000 letters?
13:59<TrueBrain>@calc pow(26,10000)
13:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
13:59<Audigex>TrueBrain: its not quite
14:00<Audigex>and they can't just type the words
14:00<Audigex>we need punctuation
14:00<TrueBrain>only increases the number :)
14:00<TrueBrain>so .. 36 chars?
14:00<TrueBrain>@calc pow(46,10000)
14:00<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
14:00<TrueBrain>LOL :p
14:00<Audigex>i think we can ignore capitalisation
14:00<TrueBrain>@calc pow(46,1000)
14:00<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
14:00<TrueBrain>@calc pow(46,100)
14:00<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 18870489598153477164312816049050162012684798868211435340739238604627801371313887236891121749334612527280219243510161776285138269791231345576101875565890940589320437760
14:00<Audigex>okay, we may need to go 64bit on the client :(
14:01<TrueBrain>euhm .. try .. bigger?
14:01<TrueBrain>but okay, a fast computer can handle .. what ... 10^9 chars per second?
14:01<Audigex>it's okay, we can just split the calculations
14:01<Audigex>and how fast can a monkey type?
14:01<TrueBrain>hell, give it 10^50 for all I care :p
14:01<Audigex>it can't be more than about 3 keys/second
14:01<TrueBrain>well .. imagine the computer time you need :p
14:01<xmakina>@calc pow(-1,-1)
14:01<@DorpsGek>xmakina: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
14:02<TrueBrain>10^308 .....
14:02<Audigex>so really we need one computer for every 3^9 monkeys
14:02<Audigex>xmakina - i
14:02<TrueBrain>we need 10^250 computers to finish in 1 second :p
14:02<Audigex>square root of minus 1 = imaginary number
14:02<TrueBrain>-1 is not the square root ..
14:02<TrueBrain>that is 0.5
14:02<Audigex>well one computer can do 3trillion monkeys
14:02<Audigex>if your numbers are right
14:03<Audigex>but it's not just about producing the random numbers
14:03<TrueBrain>no .. I am showing you that all the computers in the world won't finish before the end of the earth
14:03<Audigex>the hard part is comparing it to the works of shakespeare
14:03<Audigex>maybe not now, but computers can get faster
14:03<TrueBrain>euh ... a factor 10^200 faster?
14:03<Audigex>a million monkeys, a million years
14:03<TrueBrain>wild ideas, okay .. but this just isn't real :p
14:03<OwenS>@calc log2(10^200)*1.5
14:03<@DorpsGek>OwenS: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
14:04<OwenS>@calc log(2, 10^200)*1.5
14:04<@DorpsGek>OwenS: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
14:04<Audigex>that's only 3^x10^12 years worth
14:04<TrueBrain>OwenS: 10^200 = pow(10, 200)
14:04<OwenS>@calc log(10^200)/log(2)*1.5
14:04<@DorpsGek>OwenS: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
14:04<OwenS>@calc log(pow(10, 200))/log(2)*1.5
14:04<@DorpsGek>OwenS: 996.578428466
14:04<Audigex>@calc 3x10^12
14:04<@DorpsGek>Audigex: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
14:04<OwenS>Audigex: 996 years. Optimistically.
14:04<TrueBrain>OwenS: for what?
14:05<TrueBrain>oh, the magnitude faster
14:05<TrueBrain>haha :)
14:05<OwenS>Computers to get 10^200 faster according to moores law
14:05<TrueBrain>so Audigex, in 1000 years you can try to suggest your idea :p
14:05<TrueBrain>still requires 10^40 computers or so :p
14:05<OwenS>This is assuming Moore's Law will still be working. Unlikely. I imagine physical constraints bottoming out before then
14:05<TrueBrain>there is a reason why we say: a password of more than 12 chars is 'brute-force' safe :p
14:05<TrueBrain>OwenS: they already did
14:06<Audigex>and we're hitting the limits of silicone
14:06<OwenS>TrueBrain: Moore's Law for semiconductors in general is still there
14:06<OwenS>Audigex: Silicon! Silicone is sealent stuff :p
14:06<TrueBrain>'in general' .. :p
14:06<Audigex>oh piss off xD
14:06<TrueBrain>but okay :)
14:06<OwenS>Your search may have to go nontraditional. Can I suggest Quantum computing, and for your sort algortihm, the Quantum Bogosort
14:06-!-Antigon [~Poly@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:06<Audigex>i'd better hit wikipedia
14:06<TrueBrain>with what?
14:06<Audigex>an axe
14:06<TrueBrain>sounds like a good plan :)
14:07<OwenS>Quantum Bogosort = O(1) operation, consuming N universes where N is the number of possibilities :p
14:07<Audigex>well, i'll start on that later
14:07<TrueBrain>either way, I think it is safe to say no monkey will ever type a work of shakespeare :p
14:07<Audigex>for now, i'm going to make it so that the date change cheat can be input manually
14:07<Audigex>truebrain - that's kinda the point
14:07<Audigex>it's a philosophical question
14:07<Audigex>or perhaps mathematic
14:07<TrueBrain>no, it is a mathematical one
14:07<TrueBrain>I just showed you why
14:07<OwenS>I do like the "Make Universe"/"Destroy Universe" operations of quantum computers :p
14:07<Audigex>it's one of those things we'd never find out
14:08<TrueBrain>10^9 monkeys for 10^9 years ... is not that big of a solution space :)
14:08<TrueBrain>@calc 365.25 * 24 * 60 * 60
14:08<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 31557600
14:08<Audigex>a million monkeys = 10^6
14:08<TrueBrain>oh, milion, even less
14:08<TrueBrain>so 10^12 * (32 * 10^12)
14:09<Audigex>although the actual thing is one monkey for infinate time
14:09<Audigex>given infinate time
14:09<Audigex>it would type out the entire volume
14:09<TrueBrain>infinite time is something COMPLETELY different :)
14:09-!-Zahl_ [] has joined #openttd
14:09<Audigex>yeah, i was just going for the smaller one
14:09<Audigex>don't worry, i'm not seriously contemplating doing it
14:10<TrueBrain>yeah .. and with that you present a completely different question :)
14:10<TrueBrain>you can't try an infinite problem with finite solution
14:10<TrueBrain>finite is NOT a subset of infinite
14:10<TrueBrain>(well .. not in all cases anyway :p)
14:10<Audigex>it was a quick joke which somehow turned into a quarter of an hour of intense discussion
14:10<TrueBrain>you had to learn not to joke in this channel :)
14:11<Audigex>"no ma'am, we at the fbi do not have a sense of humour we are aware of, may we come in?"
14:11<OwenS>Infinity is not a real number :p
14:12<Audigex>Today, popular interest in the typing monkeys is sustained by numerous appearances in literature, television, radio, music, and the Internet. In 2003, an experiment was performed with six Celebes Crested Macaques, but their literary contribution was five pages consisting largely of the letter 'S'.
14:12<TrueBrain>OwenS: maybe it is complex?
14:13<OwenS>TrueBrain: It's not complex; it's just unreal :p
14:15-!-Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:15-!-Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
14:23<TrueBrain>Audigex: I always found such theorem really silly .. I mean .. of course in infinite time everytime happens
14:23<TrueBrain>what else is the term 'infinite' good for?
14:23<TrueBrain>but okay .. there is a reason I don't study math :p
14:24<Audigex>people debunk it on the idea that it wouldn't happen before the universe ended
14:24<Audigex>but firstly, there's no guarantee that the universe will end
14:24-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
14:24<TrueBrain>that for sure is a hard fact
14:24<Audigex>and secondly, it's a theory - so blocking it with other theories isn't a proof
14:24<OwenS>TrueBrain: Given infinite time the infinitely improbable can happen. Or, a very long time after the end of the universe will be another big bang :p
14:24<TrueBrain>but before the end of the universe .. now about that you can talk, yes
14:25<Audigex>what do you decide as being the end of the universe?
14:25<TrueBrain>OwenS: why a very long time? Can be instant.
14:25<Audigex>the heat death?
14:25<TrueBrain>Audigex: at least you left the realm of infinite
14:25<OwenS>TrueBrain: Could be, but thats highly improbable
14:25<pavel1269>new game, havent played with grfs and ... breakdowns off, and my train have broken! :-O
14:25<TrueBrain>we most likely die of cold, but okay :)
14:25<OwenS>And I'm refering to decomposition of atoms :p
14:25<Audigex>aaah, but this monkey is clearly invincible
14:25<TrueBrain>OwenS: we have absolutely NO idea what happens 'at the end of the universe', so talking about 'highly' impossible is silly, to say the least :p
14:26<Audigex>i go with the theory that the monkey can live until the rest of the universe ends
14:26<Audigex>so therefore, surely it can survive that
14:26<OwenS>TrueBrain: As I said, I'm taking the end of the universe to be when everything decays into photons
14:26<OwenS>Give it about a gogol years
14:26<TrueBrain>but as the big bang took several nanoseconds, why would after a big crunch not happen a big bang in the same time-span? :p
14:26<Audigex>this monkey isn't made of photons
14:26<Audigex>because the big bang was created by a huge amount of energy
14:26<Audigex>which turned into mass
14:27<OwenS>Incidentally, in all this matter, where did the antimatter go?
14:27<Audigex>ran away
14:27<pavel1269>where the all energy was created? :-)
14:27<TrueBrain>OwenS: ah, you mean the other possibility, where everything flaots and floats .. fair enough :p
14:27<Audigex>assuming the monkey, since it hasnt got bored and left the typewriter nor died in the meantime, is invincible
14:27-!-Antigon [~Poly@] has joined #openttd
14:27<Audigex>it will eventually write the complete works
14:27<TrueBrain>OwenS: antimatter and matter co-exists ... slightly more matter .. result is almost no antimatter .. logic, not? :p
14:27<OwenS>TrueBrain: Yeah, the "boring everything just decays" end of the universe which will happen
14:27<TrueBrain>OwenS: LOL! Which will happen .. oh please
14:27<fonsinchen>Hehe, there's funny things you can do with gitweb ...
14:28<TrueBrain>like you looked there :p
14:28<OwenS>TrueBrain: It will according to currently accepted theories :p
14:28<fonsinchen>smatz, this is the corrected patch:;a=commitdiff;h=ad32dc4f8bf1ff0f0cce55d32f3ba783333348f8;hp=b97204739a73103cfbc70e98d85a0398bbc28963#patch1
14:28<TrueBrain>OwenS: euh .. no
14:28<TrueBrain>'currently accepted theories' is VERY dangerous to use ....
14:28<OwenS>TrueBrain: But all methods of producing one produce the other in equal quantities
14:28<frosch123>hmm, pm from pm :p
14:29<@Rubidium>in the pm
14:29<TrueBrain>currently our best 'guess' is that the spaace is flat (1.002 I believe?)
14:29<TrueBrain>but on the other side we currently measure stuff that shouldn't be happening ...
14:29<TrueBrain>galaxies at high redshift that are not as red as they should be ... shit like that :p
14:30<TrueBrain>so never ever say about things on that scale: which will happen
14:30<TrueBrain>like saying blackholes are proven to exist .. pff
14:30<OwenS>I'm actually talking about things on a quantum theory scale :p
14:30<TrueBrain>Audigex: 1 monkey? or 10^6 monkeys?
14:30<TrueBrain>the scale doesn't matter when you talk about the end of the universe, now does it?
14:30<Audigex>the commonly given situation is 1million monkeys
14:31<TrueBrain>Audigex: the time of the universe ... invincible .. hmm ...
14:31<Audigex>but the actual theory is one monkey, infinate time (truly infinate time unlimited by theories)
14:31<Audigex>the fact is that it's hypothetical
14:31<TrueBrain>well, infinite time is simple: it will write every work ever written
14:31<OwenS>In amongst an infinite quantity of garbage
14:31<TrueBrain>sure, but that is completele besides the point
14:32<TrueBrain>I write genetic programs
14:32<TrueBrain>they produce 99% of the time garbage
14:32<TrueBrain>the 1% they do produce correct results, they amaze me every time
14:33<TrueBrain>but I dunno .. universe-length-time .. I don't think there is enough time to be 100% sure a work of shakespeare is written .. hmm .. interesting question ..
14:33<TrueBrain>now come back in 4 million years and I will tell you about a machine I will built which will give you to question to my answer
14:33-!-goodger [] has joined #openttd
14:34-!-abbmaz [] has joined #openttd
14:34<pavel1269>okay, deal :-)
14:34<abbmaz>excuse me, I'm having a silly problem with self-compiled ottd on win32
14:34<OwenS>TrueBrain: But then we'll need a bigger machine to decipher the answer! Which 6 billion years into it's run will be paved over for a hyperspace bypass!
14:34<pavel1269>whats the problem?
14:35<TrueBrain>OwenS: you clearly missed a step in the joke, but sure
14:35<abbmaz>it can't find any language packs although they are located in the lang/ folder after the .exe
14:35<TrueBrain>abbmaz: did you also compile the language files?
14:35<TrueBrain>as they need to be of the same version as your executable
14:35<abbmaz>I'm not sure if I did
14:35<pavel1269>you have compiled .exe and copied it?
14:35<TrueBrain>Audigex: I would hypotisise that it won't write a work
14:36<Audigex>prove it!
14:36<abbmaz>yea, the VC++ produced quite a lot of files, but only the .exe seemed relevant. I did follow the howto on wiki
14:36<TrueBrain>for that we need an estimate of the lifetime of the universe .. which is the trickest part I guess :p
14:37<TrueBrain>abbmaz: execute the .exe in the bin/ file of your source directory
14:37<TrueBrain>there all files are stored needed to execute that executable
14:38<abbmaz>oh, that seems sensible
14:38<pavel1269>does it run?
14:38<abbmaz>yea it does, but it whines about the language packs
14:39<abbmaz>oh, now it seems to work :) when running from the bin/ folder
14:39<pavel1269>TrueBrain: btw, my problem is back, my trains do broke, with breakdowns off :-P .... i am using NARS, is that a feature? :-)
14:39<abbmaz>(I had never before compiled anything real software with Vc++)
14:40-!-^Spike^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:40<abbmaz>thank you, now it flows nicely :)
14:41-!-^Spike^ [] has joined #openttd
14:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17171 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Doc: Additions and corrections of various doxygen strings.
14:41<TrueBrain>pavel1269: don't ask me :)
14:41<TrueBrain>abbmaz: enjoy
14:42-!-tux_mark_5 [] has joined #openttd
14:42<TrueBrain>Audigex: universe is now 15 * 10^9 years old .. (on estimate) ... if we do crazy, and state it lives 1000 times longer than it is now old
14:42<Audigex>i think i've just found how to distract truebrain for an infinate time
14:43<Audigex>give him a maths theory to ponder :)
14:43<TrueBrain>2 * 10^14 years .. 3 * 10^20 seconds ..
14:44<TrueBrain>2 * 10^14 years .. 6 * 10^21 seconds ..
14:44<TrueBrain>(1 year = pi * 10^7 seconds)
14:44<pavel1269>lol pi ?! again ?!
14:44<pavel1269>delete ...
14:45<TrueBrain>given 10^6 monkeys .. doesn't give that big of a solution space
14:45<TrueBrain>so Audigex, it is plausible it won't happen
14:45<TrueBrain>6 * 10^27 units in solution space ... what does that give ..
14:45<Audigex>aah, you're still assuming that this monkey is dependant on the existance of planets, atmospheres etc
14:45<Audigex>this isn't a universal monkey
14:45<Audigex>it's a theoretical monkey
14:46<TrueBrain>Audigex: no, I took an extreme for the lifetime of the universe :p
14:46<TrueBrain>it lives VERY long compared to what is to be expected
14:46<Audigex>what is the end of the universe?
14:46<TrueBrain>as I said: when we talk infinite, we are done talking
14:46<TrueBrain>else, we need to put an end to it :p
14:46<Audigex>and i'm talking infinate
14:46<Audigex>this is an infinate monkey
14:46<TrueBrain>then we are done talking :)
14:46<Audigex>so it will write the works
14:46<TrueBrain>but you say one time infinite, the other time a very long time
14:46<Audigex>... in theory
14:46<TrueBrain>so you should pick one
14:46<Audigex>i said infinate
14:46-!-Dred_furst [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:46<Audigex>i've never said a very long time
14:47<Audigex>the only other thing i said was "for a million years"
14:47<Audigex>which is highly improbabl
14:47<TrueBrain>[20:26] <Audigex> i go with the theory that the monkey can live until the rest of the universe ends <- == finite
14:47<pavel1269>where are you guys leading to?
14:47<Audigex>*past the end of the universe
14:47<Audigex>pavel - ignore us
14:47<TrueBrain>yeah ... now start correcting your claims, sure sure
14:47<Audigex>just a comment earlier that's gotten way out of hand
14:48<@Rubidium>Audigex: should only pavel ignore you?
14:48<TrueBrain>either way, when you leave the space of infinite, and hit the 'reality' ... it is highly unlikely
14:48<Audigex>i reserve the right to amend my bullshit ex post facto
14:48<Audigex>rubidium, you can't ignore it
14:48<TrueBrain>hmm .. inspiring thought :)
14:48<Audigex>you participated earlier, so you're honour bound to continue
14:48<TrueBrain>tnx Audigex ;)
14:48<@Rubidium>I can't?
14:48-!-Rubidium [] has left #openttd [oh yes I can!]
14:48<pavel1269>i can :-P
14:49<Audigex>watch, he'll come back and start talking about it
14:49<pavel1269>well, not so sure
14:49<TrueBrain>Audigex: then you don't know Rubidium :)
14:49<Audigex>he'll be like "oh, i just thought... what if there were 8 monkeys"
14:49<Audigex>oh christ, I'm actually going to stop joking
14:49<TrueBrain>well, with 8 monkeys
14:49<TrueBrain>hmm ..
14:49<Audigex>for the love of god
14:49<TrueBrain>that works when they lie on their side
14:49<TrueBrain>lie = lay
14:50<TrueBrain>(think about thatone :p)
14:50<TrueBrain>You are truly Internet addicted when you rotate your head 90 degrees to smile
14:51<Audigex>how about if there were infinate monkeys
14:51<Audigex>surely they'd solve it infinately?
14:51<Audigex>well, both
14:51<pavel1269>i think they have same chances as 1 monkey ... i say
14:51<Audigex>okay, seriously - i'm stopping
14:51<TrueBrain>Audigex: infinite, so instant, yes :)
14:51<Audigex>pavel - you misunderstand infinate then
14:51<Audigex>although of course, you can't have infinate monkeys
14:51<pavel1269>infinate ... more than i can ever type? :P
14:51<Audigex>because there's a finite amount of matter
14:52<TrueBrain>they can stay in the infinite hotel!
14:52<Audigex>i always hated that damned hotel
14:52<TrueBrain>it is a beauty
14:52<pavel1269>giving 1 monkey infinate time is for me same as giving infinate monkeys infinate time ...
14:52<Audigex>pavel, i was originaly giving one monkey infinate time
14:52<TrueBrain>pavel1269: in fact, it is the same as giving infinite monkeys 1 second
14:53<Audigex>but then truebrain started whining about how the universe isn't infinate
14:53<TrueBrain>btw, to both, 'infinate' is no word
14:53<Audigex>i always do that
14:53<TrueBrain>always, but not now
14:53<pavel1269>i odnt know, i jsut typed, what you typed :P
14:53<TrueBrain>weird definition of always :p
14:53<Audigex>the point being
14:53<Audigex>that we don't have enough monkeys
14:54<Audigex>in fact
14:54<TrueBrain>bananas shortage?
14:54<pavel1269>and we have enought time?
14:54<Audigex>i dont have one monkey
14:54<Audigex>so even with infinate time
14:54<Audigex>we're still one monkey short
14:54<pavel1269>go zoo
14:54<Audigex>i dont have a box to carry it in
14:54<Audigex>so therefore
14:54<Audigex>i'm calling the whole thing off
14:54<pavel1269>btw, if universe is not infinite, whats its limits? or ... ?
14:55<pavel1269>Audigex: okay, no more monkeys
14:55<TrueBrain>maybe space, we don't know ..
14:55<Audigex>space is a lack of matter
14:55<TrueBrain>no, that is void
14:55<Audigex>so if we include void in the universe
14:55<Audigex>the universe is infinate
14:55<pavel1269>void is no border for universe, so actually, it is infinite
14:56<Audigex>fuck off
14:56<TrueBrain>if you supply the girl
14:56<TrueBrain>no monkeys
14:56<Audigex>thats the other word i have trouble with
14:56<Audigex>i'm normally an excellent speller
14:56<Audigex>infinite, and jealous are my achilles heels
14:56<TrueBrain>speller .. S P E L L E R
14:57<pavel1269>why now you suck? :P
14:57<TrueBrain>well, suck is just the lack of air
14:57<Audigex>you haven't even taken me to the pictures yet
14:57-!-fjb [] has joined #openttd
14:57<Audigex>so no, i dont suck
14:57<TrueBrain>howdie fjb
14:57<TrueBrain>do you have a monkey?
14:57<Audigex>or know someone who does?
14:58<pavel1269>we need .. one ...
14:58<Audigex>well, we might need more than one
14:58<Audigex>if it dies
14:58<pavel1269>so infinite?
14:58<TrueBrain>if possible
14:58<pavel1269>thats a bit much i guess
14:58<Audigex>if not, one will do
14:58<TrueBrain>well.. if we all arrange 1 monkey
14:58<TrueBrain>and from the person we get it
14:58<TrueBrain>we let him arrange 1 monkey too
14:58<fjb>Something is strange here today. Somebody talks about sucking and Sacro doesn't reply.
14:58<TrueBrain>in the end .. we have inifnite monkeys!
14:59<pavel1269>we dont have infinite folks :-)
14:59<Audigex>truebrain - i don't like pyramid schemes
14:59<Audigex>pavel, nor do we have infinate monkeys
14:59<Audigex>can we substitute lemurs?
14:59<TrueBrain>too many people got arrested over it :(
14:59-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
14:59<TrueBrain>2 down ... :p
15:00<TrueBrain>if we promise not to talk about their family again, will they come back?
15:00<fjb>Pyramid schemes? Arrest the FED.
15:00*TrueBrain hugs Alberth and Rubidium .. that was not nice of me
15:00<pavel1269>if we dont have infinite universe, nor we have infinite matter, how can we have infinite monkeys :-)
15:01<TrueBrain>pavel1269: just .. because!
15:01<TrueBrain>there are things you have to assume as true in life
15:01<pavel1269>true, universe is infinite
15:01<TrueBrain>there are an infnite amount of monkeys
15:01<Audigex>right, regardless of what we're talking about when rubidium comes back
15:01<Audigex>start talking about infinate monkeys etc
15:01<Audigex>and shakespeare
15:01<TrueBrain>hihi :)
15:01<TrueBrain>sorry :)
15:01<Audigex>lots of monkeys
15:01<TrueBrain>you said you never said it wrong :p
15:02<Audigex>no, i said i always say it wrong
15:02<pavel1269>never say never :-)
15:02<TrueBrain>oh .. I misread that then :p
15:02<TrueBrain>then I will shut up about it :)
15:02<Audigex>or maybe i mistyped
15:02<Audigex>it's a word i perpetually misspell
15:02<TrueBrain>maybe you are a monkey!
15:02<Audigex>i'll start typing....
15:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17172 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move the _message_opt variable into the MessageOptionsWindow struct.
15:02<Audigex>Hamet Act 1 Scene 1 Andaajgkjjgjagkakjlgajalsafasasa
15:02<pavel1269>who said, we have limited universe?
15:02<Audigex>not a bad start
15:02<TrueBrain>I did
15:03<pavel1269>i dont trust you
15:03<pavel1269>prove it
15:03<TrueBrain>Audigex: do you know the scripting language Shakespeare?
15:03<TrueBrain>you would love it I guess
15:03<pavel1269>while ... echo ... no more needed?
15:03<TrueBrain>it is really really really cool
15:04<frosch123> <- why isn't it NewTrains and NewClimate?
15:04-!-Antigon [~Poly@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:04<pavel1269>tb, it some kind of joke?
15:05<pavel1269>you know, i sux at english, so i need a bit help ^^
15:05<Audigex>yes, it's a joke
15:05<Audigex>like locode
15:05<TrueBrain>no, it is really a language
15:05<TrueBrain>you can really code in it
15:05<Audigex>i knoiw
15:05<Audigex>but it's still a joke
15:05<TrueBrain>if you execute this application, it will run '10 botles of beer on the wall'
15:05<TrueBrain>as much of a joke as brainfuck and whitespace
15:05<TrueBrain>frosch123: who owns that website?
15:05<Audigex>which are both jokes
15:05<Audigex>they're very clever jokes
15:05<Audigex>but still jokes
15:05<pavel1269>i dont know anything you just said :-(
15:06<frosch123>TrueBrain: it is not a website
15:06<TrueBrain>image of a website :p
15:06<frosch123>imo a website is something online
15:06<TrueBrain>then what is it? :p
15:06<pavel1269>i had it cached before i went there?
15:06<frosch123>maybe it is a meta-teaser
15:07<TrueBrain>pavel1269: <- brainfuck
15:07<frosch123>a teaser of something showsing teasers
15:07<TrueBrain>cryptic, I like :)
15:07<TrueBrain>but so I can't answer your question, I am so sorry :(
15:08<frosch123>btw. all teasers of that kind are by mb
15:08<TrueBrain>pavel1269: <- whitespace (yes, very white)
15:08<TrueBrain>oh .. too bad
15:08<Audigex>is there any way to completely remove the news popups?
15:09<TrueBrain>under the ?
15:09<TrueBrain>Message options
15:09<pavel1269>he answered, why :S?
15:10<TrueBrain>btw, I really meant underthe ? :p
15:10<TrueBrain>the red thingy
15:10<pavel1269>tb: honestly, i still didnt get it ... with that whitespaces, brainfuck ... :-/
15:11<TrueBrain>like C
15:11<TrueBrain>and Java
15:11<pavel1269>okay, whats shown just on that page ... some test output?
15:12<Audigex>right, in openttd - is there a way to completely remove all news messages?
15:12<Audigex>assuming that i don't give two shits about production and closing industries
15:12<Audigex>other than removing industries completely
15:12-!-Yexo [] has joined #openttd
15:13<Yexo>good evening
15:13<pavel1269>go to message settings
15:13<pavel1269>hello Yexo
15:13<pavel1269>at GUI ... just before the big "?" ... hold and second one
15:13<_ln>what is it about OpenTTD that attracts .nl-ers so much?
15:14<pavel1269>.nl ... norway?
15:14<TrueBrain>Audigex: I just told you ...
15:14<TrueBrain>howdie Yexo :)
15:14<Xaroth>pavel1269: dutch
15:14<bb10>pavel1269: holland, netherlands
15:14<Audigex>true, i dont see anywhere that says :s
15:14*pavel1269 searching in dictonary for dutch
15:14<Yexo>hi TrueBrain :)
15:15<pavel1269>i thought, they died out, and they were just in games like civ
15:15<bb10>pavel1269: weedland LOL
15:15<TrueBrain>Audigex: the ? on the top right .. you see it?
15:15<Audigex>i dont see message options
15:15<TrueBrain>click hold
15:15<TrueBrain>messages ...
15:15<Audigex>its under the one next to the ?
15:16<pavel1269>oh yes
15:16<pavel1269>i read you line, but the "next" was missed
15:16<TrueBrain>is it moved? Oh :p
15:16<pavel1269>my bad
15:17<Audigex>excellent, improves my performance nicely :)
15:17<Audigex>i need to up my bus speed though
15:17<TrueBrain>use the cheat
15:17<Audigex>my system bus
15:18<TrueBrain>I guess that was missing two *
15:19<Audigex>my pc lags in ottd even though none of my cores are near 100%, and my GPU is practically idling
15:19<Audigex>plenty of ram left
15:19<TrueBrain>no worries, one core it at 100%
15:19<TrueBrain>it = is
15:19<_ln>is there a rail vehicle that looks like a DeLorean?
15:19<Audigex>it's only lagging in ottdcoop
15:19<Audigex>but still
15:19<Audigex>so my thought is that it must be bottlnecking somewhere
15:19<Audigex>either my ram - shouldn't be the problem
15:19<Audigex>or my system bus
15:19<pavel1269>between monitor and case? :P
15:20<Audigex>which is slow compared to my total clock speed
15:20<TrueBrain>Audigex: ah, yes the one left of the ?, hihi, my mistake :) (had to look it up :p)
15:20<Audigex>system bus isn't a cable
15:20<^Spike^>Audigex the current game @ ottdcoop is laggy for most :)
15:20<TrueBrain>Audigex: it is because 1 core is at 100% :p
15:20<Audigex>thats why i was confused
15:20<^Spike^>it has lots of trains :)
15:20<Audigex>it must be server side then
15:21<OwenS>Audigex: Nope
15:21<Audigex>like i said, none of my system is approaching full usage
15:21-!-Antigon [~Poly@] has joined #openttd
15:21<TrueBrain>Audigex: 1 core is :)
15:21<Audigex>so unless i'm bottlenecking badly
15:21<Audigex>truebrain - no it isnt
15:21<TrueBrain>no worries, that is for everyone joining coop games :p
15:21-!-tux_mark_5 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:21<OwenS>Audigex: Lag in OpenTTDCoop means your system is not fast enough
15:21<Audigex>my system flies
15:21<pavel1269>where to?
15:21<TrueBrain>sure, it most likely will
15:22<OwenS>How much processor is the game taking vs how many cores do you have?
15:22<TrueBrain>but check the % of the openttd process :p
15:22<Audigex>3.8gHz tri-core, 8800gt and 4gb pc2-8500
15:22<TrueBrain>your memory, your GPU, both don't matter
15:22<TrueBrain>tri-core? Cool, didn't know they created those
15:22<TrueBrain>either way, doesn't matter ..
15:22<Audigex>individual core loads are 21%, 3% and 49%
15:22<OwenS>TrueBrain: It's a broken quad core :p
15:22<TrueBrain>OpenTTD uses 1 core
15:22<TrueBrain>OwenS: I guess :p
15:22<pavel1269>you know, one failed, so they shut it off ..
15:23<Audigex>but the point being, none of the three are anywhere near 100%
15:23<Audigex>and my gpu is practically idling
15:23<OwenS>RAM usage?
15:23<TrueBrain>that might have to do with the simple fact that OpenTTD doesn't use the GPU .. in any way ..
15:23<^Spike^>if ottd started using GPU i also want it to support DX10 ATLEAST :D
15:23<TrueBrain>well, for 8bpp I Believe it uses hardware palette :p
15:24<TrueBrain>yes, it really needs DX10 features!!!!!11111
15:24<Audigex>ram usage is 1.5gb out of 4gb
15:24<OwenS>^Spike^: DX10? Erm, OpenGL anyone? Which does more? On more platforms? And is nicer?
15:24<^Spike^>true.. :)
15:24<^Spike^>but still :)
15:24<pavel1269>which is faster? :-)
15:24*^Spike^ has seen cryengine screenshots...
15:24<TrueBrain>lets do that for 8bpp ... graphics .....
15:24<OwenS>TrueBrain: It would actually work for 8->32bpp conversion :p
15:24<TrueBrain>OwenS: DX5 can do that :p
15:25<pavel1269>win 3.11? :D
15:25<OwenS>OpenGL has no pallette mode :p
15:25<Audigex>it's using, as an absolute maximum, 75% of core #2
15:25<TrueBrain>OwenS: the reason the latest OpenGL patch was slow :p
15:25<^Spike^>or.. or.... MS-Dos 4.0! :)
15:25<TrueBrain>Audigex: OpenTTD only uses one core ..
15:25<pavel1269>^Spike^: you dont actually know history, right? :-)
15:25<OwenS>TrueBrain: Why didn't it use a shader to do 8->32 conversion? :p
15:25<TrueBrain>the core it is launched in
15:25<OwenS>One texture lookup
15:25<TrueBrain>or do you have .. what was it called ..
15:25<^Spike^>i started on win3.1 :D
15:25<OwenS>Audigex: Connection Lost means either "Your internet connection lost" or "Your machine did not catch up"
15:25<TrueBrain>OwenS: the problem was company colours :p
15:25<TrueBrain>Audigex: wow .... no need to scream
15:26<Audigex>i said it before :)
15:26<Audigex>and you ignored it :(
15:26<TrueBrain>yes, like you ignore what we say :p
15:26<TrueBrain>I don't care :) No need to talk in CAPITALS
15:26<Audigex>i just ignore your ranting about monkeys
15:26<pavel1269>^Spike^: win1 was just for advertisment, it was not working :P
15:26<OwenS>TrueBrain: OK, one texture map per company. Simples.
15:26<TrueBrain>OwenS: turned out to be not that simple :)
15:26<^Spike^>i had it somewhere once.. downloaded :D
15:26<Audigex>but like i'm saying, my pc is lagging still
15:26<^Spike^>never checked it out :D
15:26<TrueBrain>but petern got more done than I did :)
15:26<Audigex>even though it's not hitting 100% usage
15:26<^Spike^>Audigex it's the ottdcoop game
15:26<Audigex>so i think it might be the system bus
15:27<TrueBrain>yes, I also always suspect my system bus ......
15:27<^Spike^>this is a pretty heavy game..
15:27<OwenS>If it were the system bus YOUR CPU WOULD BE 100% USAGE
15:27<TrueBrain>OpenTTD uses so much of it ...
15:27<Audigex>owens - but if the problem is that the cpu can't get the data from the memory?
15:27<Audigex>i'm heavily overclocked
15:27<OwenS>Audigex: Then it sits there waiting
15:27<Audigex>but specificiall
15:27<TrueBrain>oh, yes, OpenTTD uses so much of the memory ...
15:27<OwenS>Overclocked? This may explain a lot...
15:27<TrueBrain>TONS of bits per second
15:27<Audigex>i'm heavily >multiplier < overclocked
15:27<TrueBrain>so your stats are wrong :p
15:27<Audigex>so my core speed is artificially raised
15:28<Audigex>my thought is that my processor just can't get the data from the memory fast enough
15:28<Audigex>which is why it's not at 100% itself
15:28<OwenS>then it would be at 100% usage
15:28<TrueBrain>then your CPU will be at 100%
15:28<Audigex>surely it wouldn't though
15:28<OwenS>it would
15:28<TrueBrain>sure, your computer not
15:28<OwenS>Becuase the instruction stalls
15:28<TrueBrain>ours will
15:28<pavel1269>how many times i jsut read it for last 30mins? ... :-)
15:28<^Spike^>maybe the overclocking is the problem?
15:28<TrueBrain>maybe you have this really special computer
15:28<Audigex>spike, the overclock is pretty damn stable
15:28<TrueBrain>one that doesn't follow the classic rules of CPU design ..
15:29<OwenS>Audigex: 32-bit or 64-bit OS?
15:29<Audigex>64bit, but 32bit ottd
15:29<TrueBrain>damn .. and I did so well today not being sarcastic :(
15:29<pavel1269>TB: he might have found a monkey
15:29<Audigex>could that be an issue?
15:29<Audigex>truebrain - triple core is unusual, but doesn't make any difference to a single-threaded app
15:29<OwenS>No. I was checking because lots of Phenoms overclock "well" under 32-bit OSes but are actually flaky
15:30<TrueBrain>and assuming you have a default x86 CPU, your CPU will stall on bus-problems
15:30<Audigex>owens - that's exactly why i went 64bit
15:30<Audigex>i was aware of the issue
15:30<OwenS>So, what does the PROCESS' CPU indicator say? Not the system CPU indicators - the process indicators
15:30<Audigex>the process indicator is hovering at about 20%
15:30<OwenS>While connected?
15:30<Audigex>up to about 27 max
15:31<TrueBrain>OwenS: well, in theory if the server can't keep up, clients will be slowed down too
15:31<pavel1269>they must ..
15:31<TrueBrain>it is how I designed it :p
15:31<OwenS>TrueBrain: I happen to know the OpenTTDCoop server is better than that :p
15:31<pavel1269>you?! :D
15:31<TrueBrain>I dunno which game is currently loaded
15:31<pavel1269>you dont even know, why my trains are breaking!
15:32<TrueBrain>pavel1269: I don't do newgrf
15:32<OwenS>And I know exactly the problem. Gamesize: 1.2MB. Game unpauses while download in progress.
15:32<TrueBrain>as soon as you say: I have a grf loaded, I stop listening :)
15:32<OwenS>Client gets kicked before it catches up
15:32<TrueBrain>OwenS: by design :)
15:32<OwenS>TrueBrain: By design would it please stay paused? :p
15:32<OwenS>Or pause when it reaches 100% :p
15:32<Audigex>just another thought - turning news off and full detail and animation don't make any difference to the amount of lag
15:32<TrueBrain>well, the pause/unpause I wouldn't know
15:33<TrueBrain>but the catching up part I was refering too :p
15:33<Audigex>it's odd
15:33<Audigex>hang on
15:33<Audigex>can i save a copy of the coop game?
15:33<Audigex>and run it locally?
15:33<TrueBrain>in very very rare cases, your network can be to slow to receive the stream of packets :p
15:34<OwenS>Audigex: Yes. Connect and save game :p
15:34<TrueBrain>OwenS: I believe the game pauses as soon as the map is done, and the client is ready to load it, not?
15:34<Audigex>0 lag
15:34<TrueBrain>(I can never remember :p)
15:34<TrueBrain>0 lag is impossible
15:34<OwenS>TrueBrain: Nope. It leaves it unpaused
15:34<TrueBrain>it is always 1 or more
15:34<TrueBrain>OwenS: is the pause option on? :p
15:34-!-oskari89 [] has quit [Quit: Utm A½ - Aja 35]
15:34<OwenS>TrueBrain: The pause option is broken :p
15:34<pavel1269>what if he does play on same machine? :P
15:34<Audigex>you know what i mean
15:34<@petern>who what?
15:34<Audigex>i'm playing normally on the local copy
15:34<pavel1269>peter! :D
15:34<TrueBrain>pavel1269: fair enough :)
15:34<TrueBrain>MP is always 1+ :p
15:35-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:35<OwenS>Audigex: If it's playing normally locally... Whats your latency to the server like?
15:35<Audigex>and processor usage is all but identical
15:35<pavel1269>question for newcomers ... :-) ... NARS, no breakdowns, why my trains are breaking down? feature of NARS? :-)
15:35<Audigex>around 40ms
15:35<TrueBrain>OwenS: latency will only get you kicked after a while .. it needs to be a burst problem to have any visual effect :p
15:36<Audigex>couple are spiking up to 50ms
15:36<OwenS>TrueBrain: Yes. But in general I find latency tends to cause packets to bunch together :p
15:36<Audigex>re-running it brings one of 90ms
15:36<OwenS>If it's congestion latency
15:36<Audigex>i can't imagine 40ms is particularly high?
15:36<OwenS>I've played almost fine with 500ms...
15:36<Audigex>a few heading towards mid 50s
15:36<OwenS>(I'll admit 500ms makes everything else no fun!)
15:36<TrueBrain>have been helping with ISP 'redirecting' torrent traffic lately .. bitchy filters :(
15:37<pavel1269>40 is in middle for FPS games :-)
15:37<@petern>1ms latency is verging on too much
15:37<OwenS>TrueBrain: Define redirecting?
15:37<@petern>er, 10ms
15:37<@petern>but i guess you're not talking about audio latency
15:37<TrueBrain>OwenS: sending via routers with less bandwidth, I guess? :P
15:37<OwenS>So how well do said filters work? :p
15:37<TrueBrain>petern: I always hate my audio system have 24+ms latency :(
15:38*Yexo is wondering why Dustion thinks he knows the openttd coding better then the openttd devs
15:38<Audigex>pavel - 40ms is in the middle for fps games, but it also matters more on fps
15:38<@petern>TrueBrain, then set it up properly :)
15:38<TrueBrain>Yexo: because he is a big fat ass
15:38<Audigex>yexo, where?
15:38<TrueBrain>petern: buy a decent card might help ..
15:38<Yexo>Audigex: wiki
15:38<TrueBrain>what was the word ....
15:38<pavel1269>Audigex: if you have 90ms, you are l4g3r, and will get ban, no matter your fps :-)
15:38<@petern>TrueBrain, not really, even an sb live can do sub 10ms
15:38<Yexo>just scan over recent changes
15:38<TrueBrain>grr, always forget that word for cards that have low latency :(
15:38<@petern>(as can intel-hda)
15:38<TrueBrain>petern: didn't a sb live have that thingy .. hmm ..
15:38<Audigex>pavel - it's always great at uni - 3ms is common
15:38<Yexo>TrueBrain: that's a bit harsh
15:38<@petern>48kHz only, yes
15:39<Audigex>woop for 100mbs
15:39<Yexo>but he could've checked before assuming all examples were wrong
15:39<Audigex>when i'm at uni
15:39<pavel1269>whats uni? :D
15:39<Audigex>i'm on a 100mb lan, connected to the JANET uk education network
15:39<@petern>TrueBrain, you're probably thinking asio, which is a driver framework, not hardware
15:39<Audigex>not here, though
15:39<TrueBrain>Yexo: what I read from him on the forums .. sorry ..
15:39<pavel1269>i thought, you are not male nor female, you are uni ?:-)
15:39<TrueBrain>petern: no .. hmm ... now I want to look it up ..
15:40<@petern>wikipedia to the rescue?
15:40<TrueBrain>btw, playing guitar with 24+ ms latency is no fun
15:40<TrueBrain>you keep missing the beat :p
15:40<Yexo>TrueBrain: I haven't noticed him that much, so could be
15:41-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
15:41<@petern>i can get down to 1ms latency, but cpu usage skyrockets then
15:41<Xaroth>-21:40:37- [TrueBrain]: btw, playing guitar with 24+ ms latency is no fun << it probably is if i were playing, seeing i can't play my guitar for shit :P
15:41<TrueBrain>1ms ... 1000Hz right?
15:41<@petern>all those interupts :D
15:41<TrueBrain>needs kernel modification I guess :p
15:41<@petern>well, maybe
15:41<@petern>i have the rt preempt patches
15:42-!-tux_mark_5 [] has joined #openttd
15:42<TrueBrain>hehe :)
15:42<Audigex>guitar or guitar hero?
15:42<Audigex>surely a guitar only lags if your fingers are slow
15:42<Xaroth>I can play guitar hero ...
15:42<Audigex>in which case you probably have bigger problems
15:42<Xaroth>but not guitar :P
15:42<@petern>actually i got down to 16 samples per period
15:42<@petern>which is...
15:42<@petern>0.6ms latency
15:42<@petern>pretty pointless
15:42<TrueBrain>petern: maybe it was asio .. I don't know ...
15:43<TrueBrain>it was something a audio card supports or not
15:43<TrueBrain>sb live is known to support it ..
15:43<TrueBrain>mine isn't :p
15:43<@petern>as the soundcard has a certain amount of latency you don't see for DA and AD operations
15:43<TrueBrain>means I can't get below the 24ms :(
15:43<@petern>asio4all works, usually
15:43<@petern>but then, that's on windows. who uses windows?
15:43*pavel1269 waves
15:44<pavel1269>i feel too young to use something what actually does work
15:44<@petern>my m-audio has 'proper' asio drivers
15:45<@petern>so it's at 128 samples currently
15:45<@petern>ah, 6ms latency
15:45<TrueBrain>lucky you :)
15:45<@petern>yeah :D
15:47<TrueBrain>Yexo: I am happy you check those pages
15:47<TrueBrain>petern: hmm ... now I come to think of it, it was my 'server' pc which horrible latency .. no idea what this 'working pc' gives ...
15:48<TrueBrain>but as I don't have a mic input .. not really relevant either :p
15:48<Yexo>I check the wiki recent changes from time to time, but I have to give Rubidium credit this time for pointing out an obvious mistake
15:48<TrueBrain>obvious, yes
15:48<Yexo>"class class MyTestAI" <- that was example code
15:48<TrueBrain>well, I guess he did his best :)
15:49<Yexo>yes, but that doens't always help :p
15:49<TrueBrain>20 AIs ..
15:49<TrueBrain>where is Morloth? :p
15:49<Yexo>haven't seen him in a while
15:49<Yexo>but why now?
15:50<Yexo>you have some bet about 20 AIs?
15:50<TrueBrain>when we hit the 20 AIs (or was it 25?) we were going to celebrate :p
15:50<TrueBrain>we only expected it 6 months ago :p
15:50-!-fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:50<TrueBrain>now he is a bit ... too far away :p
15:50<Yexo>hehe, yes :)
15:51<pavel1269>thats pitty i stopped working on my AI :-/
15:51<pavel1269>you will be even closer to your goal :D
15:52<pavel1269>but i didnt have time for it ...
15:52<TrueBrain>I don't have the time to hang around here either!
15:53<Yexo>TrueBrain: depending on which AIs you count, we may have already hit the 20
15:53<TrueBrain>I counted to ones who claimed a shortname
15:53<pavel1269>i still dont have time to anything ^^, but at least i dont go to school anymore for now :-)
15:53<TrueBrain>and yet here you talk for over an hour
15:53<TrueBrain>even Audigex left
15:54<Audigex>i did what?
15:54<TrueBrain>so EXCUSES! :p
15:54<pavel1269>ye :-/
15:54<Yexo>you did notice I haven't updated it for over a month?
15:54<TrueBrain>oh .. rephase: I hoped he left :p
15:54*TrueBrain hugs Audigex
15:54<TrueBrain>Yexo: no :p Even better ;)
15:54<pavel1269>well, i dont have time and i am here, so if i wasnt here, it might really be a problem? :P
15:54<TrueBrain>pavel1269: maybe then you would have infinite monkeys?
15:54<TrueBrain>somehow that triggered Tefad
15:55<TrueBrain>scary ..
15:55<Tefad>SCARY INDEED.
15:55<pavel1269>tomorow, i am going to pool, anyone with me? :-)
15:55<TrueBrain>we all have our trigger words .. but INFINITE MONKEYS being one of them?
15:55<TrueBrain>pavel1269: sure
15:55<Tefad>anyway. i'm dropping by for a few seconds and saw infinite monkeys on my screen that is all
15:55<TrueBrain>you pay my flight?
15:55<TrueBrain>well, welcome Tefad :)
15:55<Audigex>tefad, you must have a huge screen
15:55<Tefad>yes this screen has about 8 windows
15:55<TrueBrain>Audigex: yes, 1 line fits on it
15:55<TrueBrain>really big!
15:56<Tefad>then my physical screen has about seven terminals
15:56<pavel1269>TB: do you accept our "cash"?
15:56<Tefad>and consists of two CRTs
15:56<Audigex>Tefad> anyway. i'm dropping by for a few seconds and saw infinite monkeys on my screen that is all
15:56<Tefad>Audigex: do i really need to put quotes on it
15:56<Audigex>my screen probably can't display more then 3 monkeys
15:56<Audigex>and you should see some of the pedantry i had to deal with earlier :(
15:56<pavel1269>what size of monkey?
15:56<Audigex>between true and rubi
15:56<TrueBrain>Audigex: at least it does solve our problem :p
15:57<TrueBrain>pavel1269: what currency?
15:57<Tefad>i am quite the pedant when it comes to grammar and context
15:57<Tefad>however 'infinite monkeys' was already established in context
15:57<Tefad>i felt no need to add silly quotes
15:57<pavel1269>TB: you know czech koruna or whatever it is called :P
15:57<Audigex>well, tough
15:57<pavel1269>where do you live at btw?
15:57<Tefad>papa smurf can i lick your ass?
15:57<TrueBrain>oeh, then I can visit SmatZ too?
15:57<Tefad>uh moving on now
15:58<TrueBrain>Tefad: yes, moving on please
15:58<pavel1269>well, i think, he is on the other side of this country :D
15:58<TrueBrain>that is one too far
15:58<TrueBrain>pavel1269: well .. how big can your country be? :p
15:58<pavel1269>my country :-) ... i say 350kms ? :-)
15:59<pavel1269>490! ha
15:59<TrueBrain>oh ... doable :)
15:59*Audigex wants to know where his sister is with the pizza
15:59<Yexo>TrueBrain: 23 shortnames on the list now :)
15:59<TrueBrain>so, you pay my ticket in cash
15:59<TrueBrain>Yexo: 2 more :p
15:59<TrueBrain>Audigex: euhm ..
15:59<TrueBrain>excuse me
15:59<Audigex>she's gone for pizza
16:00<TrueBrain>I don't hope the answer is: in the closet
16:00<TrueBrain>as that would scare me
16:00<Audigex>but it's dark outside
16:00<Audigex>and i'm worried
16:00<Audigex>that someone's robbed her
16:00<Audigex>and taken my pizza
16:00<TrueBrain>then why didn't you go?!
16:00<pavel1269>TrueBrain: errr, .... cya tomorow :D ...
16:00<Audigex>because she has a car
16:00<Audigex>and i dont
16:00<Audigex>well, it was my car
16:00<Audigex>but now it's hers
16:00<TrueBrain>pavel1269: which airport? :p
16:01<pavel1269>if like 5bucks will be anought, ^^
16:01<TrueBrain>176 euros
16:01<pavel1269>i am not robber
16:01<TrueBrain>I think you soon have to be
16:02-!-GhostBerg0445270 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:02<TrueBrain>oh, and I stay the week
16:02<TrueBrain>strangly enough, the same ticket can also cost 1130 euro
16:02<TrueBrain>but then I fly via Madrid
16:02<TrueBrain>(really... WHY?!)
16:02<TrueBrain>from Amsterdam to Madrid ..
16:02<TrueBrain>WRONG WAY!
16:03<pavel1269>Amsterdam ... go via car :P
16:03<pavel1269>pick up SmatZ by the way :P
16:03<TrueBrain>8 hour drive
16:03<TrueBrain>900 km ...
16:03<pavel1269>autopilot ^^
16:03<TrueBrain>so ... 80 liters
16:03<TrueBrain>yeah, cheaper :p
16:04<TrueBrain>well, then I still need to drive to SmatZ and you .. having no idea where you both live :p
16:04<andythenorth>I am trying to apply v3 of the RV physics patch...get the following problem:
16:04<TrueBrain>oeh, but I can pick up Rubidium on the way
16:04<andythenorth>I have searched for help, turned up similar problems, but no tips for solution
16:04<pavel1269>well, i dont want to tell you now, i will meet you tomorow, and you will want 1136 euros
16:04<TrueBrain>even planetmaker ..
16:04<Yexo>andythenorth: are you applying to clean trunk?
16:05<TrueBrain>andythenorth: the obvious .. it suggests the patch is already applied ..
16:05<Yexo>did you svn up to the correct revision?
16:05<@petern>not 1138 euros D:
16:05<andythenorth>previously applied v2 of the same patch
16:05<pavel1269>well, are some Ottd meeting at this continent ... not USA/England ... like i can go there via bus? :P
16:05<TrueBrain>petern: haha :) Would have been a good one ..
16:05<TrueBrain>pavel1269: well .. this is not as far-fetched as you might think
16:05<Yexo>andythenorth: then remove v2 first (svn revert -R .)
16:05<TrueBrain>I can rent a car .. make the drive ..
16:05<andythenorth>I did svn up -r 17167 before trying the v3 of the patch
16:05<andythenorth>Yexo: ok thanks
16:06<TrueBrain>costs me a total of 200 euro .. maybe a bit more
16:06<TrueBrain>ticket is cheaper :p
16:06<TrueBrain>(for 1 person)
16:06<TrueBrain>I have to drive both ways
16:06<andythenorth>those bloody . characters in svn :\
16:06-!-tux_mark_5 [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC]
16:06<andythenorth>looks like it is going to compile, thanks
16:07<TrueBrain>oh well .. time for a movie :)
16:07<TrueBrain>good night all
16:07<Yexo>night TrueBrain
16:07<TrueBrain>night Audigex
16:07<TrueBrain>night Yexo
16:07<TrueBrain>night pavel1269
16:07<TrueBrain>night petern
16:07<TrueBrain>night rest :p
16:07<pavel1269>nn TrueBrain
16:07<Xaroth>nn TB
16:08<xmakina>night tb
16:09<@petern>night tart
16:09<pavel1269>so, tomorrow at pool .... "+49° 12' 3.61", +16° 35' 10.98" " ... who will come? :D
16:10<TrueBrain>retarded google maps
16:11<pavel1269>i have this coords from google maps :D
16:11<TrueBrain>fill it in with the quotes
16:11<TrueBrain>oh .. in that case I do not pass next to planetmaker :p
16:11<TrueBrain>and it is a 10 hour drive
16:11<TrueBrain>sorry pavel1269
16:11<TrueBrain>oh, movie
16:11<TrueBrain>bye!! :)
16:11<pavel1269>" 49.201002,16.586382 "
16:11<pavel1269>try this
16:12<pavel1269>i copyed what i wrote and it gave me right place
16:12-!-Coco-Banana-Man [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:13<pavel1269>rofl ...
16:13<pavel1269>jst tryed
16:13<pavel1269>you know "Placement on map is approximate"
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16:15<Eddi|zuHause>"Kraví hora 602 00 Brno, Tschechische Republik" <- am i right there?
16:15<pavel1269>not sure about "Tschechische"
16:16<pavel1269>you see pool right? :P
16:16<abbmaz>in english Czech
16:16<_ln>why did i read "Tschetschenische"...
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: that's somewhat further off :p
16:16<abbmaz>in czech, Cesky I think with \/ over the C
16:16<pavel1269>right! :-)
16:17<abbmaz>not present in my character set ;)
16:18<_ln>interestingly, Tschetschenien in russian requires only five letters.
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>you have a baseball field?
16:18<pavel1269>baseball at pool? :P
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>well, next to it...
16:18<pavel1269>not really
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>looks like that on the map
16:19<pavel1269>actually it must be, but not a public
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16:22<Eddi|zuHause>hm... from Halle nach Brünn: Start 6:12, Arrival 14:14
16:23<pavel1269>nice price for seeing a fring, isnt it? :D
16:24<pavel1269>but tomorow is not so nice, i will jsu swim maybye there ... but at sunday ... :-)
16:25<pavel1269> Brunn-Maria Enzersdorf 6:11 6:12 Vlak S 24258 rozšířená přeprava spoluzavazadel, především jízdních kol
16:25<pavel1269> Wien Südbahnhof Bstg. 21-22 6:33 6:34 Přesun Přesun asi 8 min
16:25<pavel1269> Wien Südbahnhof Bstg. 1-9 6:58 Vlak 76 Gustav Klimt restaurační vůz
16:25<pavel1269> Brno hl.n. 8:39 8:41
16:26<pavel1269>train ... 2hours, 27mins, nice
16:26<pavel1269>but does not show a price :-/
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>where are YOU going right now?
16:27<pavel1269>or what do you mean?
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16:27<pavel1269>i live at Brno :-)
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>no, i mean you show something about going to Wien
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>which is, like, the opposite direction ;)
16:27<pavel1269>the direction is .. Brunn -> wien -> Brno
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>i said Brünn, not Brunn
16:28<pavel1269>i cant type .. that u
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>Brünn == german name for Brno
16:29<pavel1269>so, you start at "Halle"?
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, Halle (Saale), to be more exact
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16:30<pavel1269>it knows only "saales"
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>what "it"?
16:30<pavel1269>my "route planner" :D
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>"Halle (Saale)" is the exact name of the city
16:30<pavel1269>saales is 1200kms away
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound like the right place :p
16:31<pavel1269>and its some little village, travelling from there 17-24hours
16:31<abbmaz>use's route planner for timetables :)
16:31<abbmaz>it recognizes many different names for places
16:32<pavel1269>oh, Halle is 600km away :/
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that sounds more like it ;)
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>there are more than one "Halle"s in germany, though
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>be sure to use the right one
16:33<pavel1269>"it" does know only one :-)
16:34<pavel1269>you know, its mostly for .... "in-city" routes, and from-to cities in czech, not outside :-)
16:34-!-xmakina [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:41<pavel1269>found photos from there (you must have a fb account :-( ) ...
16:46-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:48<Pygma>I'm looking at topless photos of you?
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>i won't get a facebook account...
16:51<pavel1269>haha, i am on like 2-4 photos :-)
16:51<pavel1269>from that 4pages
16:53<pavel1269>we should also arrange a meeting somewhere here at europe ... like germany/austria ... :-)
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>car seems to be twice as fast
16:56<pavel1269>Eddi|zuHause: ... so, you are comming ^^ :-D ...
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have a car :p
16:56<pavel1269>5hours drive -> 6hours at pool, 5 hours back, amazing :D
16:57<Pygma>That sounds horrible?
16:57<pavel1269>horrible is easy word for that
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>add to that: 30 minutes to get to halle in the first place, at least two 20 minutes breaks
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>1h missing the right target in Brünn
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16:59<pavel1269>you have GPS, you cant miss
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17:02<pavel1269>gn folks
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17:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17173 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: Vertically align WWT_TEXT widget, generalize vertical alignment of label and text buttons.
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17:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17174 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Switch to vertical alignment in the message options window.
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17:24-!-glx_ is now known as glx
17:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17175 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Only auto-raise push buttons.
17:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17176 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move widget state updating out of OnPaint method of message options window.
17:37<Coco-Banana-Man>quick question..
17:37<Coco-Banana-Man>Is there any binary with IS3 + CargoDist + Daylength patches (or at least two of them)?
17:38<Audigex>i've not seen one with all 3, i think there was one with is3+cd
17:38<Audigex>cant remember where
17:38<Coco-Banana-Man>ok, thank you :)
17:38<Audigex>and do you mean is2 beta 3?
17:41<Audigex>okay, i tried searching for a v3 :)
17:41<Audigex>got confused when i couldnt find it
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17:59<Yexo>good night
17:59-!-Yexo [] has quit [Quit: bye]
18:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17177 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Message options window uses nested widget tree.
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18:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm... this game is over way too quickly...
18:07<Terkhen>good night!
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18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17178 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange (r17177): Remove now unused define.
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18:26<Fast2>Ahh :) A channel with more than one or three other people.
18:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17179 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Merge: changelog etc. changes from 0.7 branch
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18:32<Fast2>I've got a question for the people who know where to find the vehicle loading and unloading routines in the code: Where is it? I searched for them, but I didn't find. I only found "BeginLoading" and "HandleLoading" in Vehicle.cpp, but that's not what I'm searching for.
18:33<planetmaker>so what is it you're searching for?
18:34-!-^Spike^ is now known as ^spike^
18:36<Fast2>My goal is changing the behavour of "Transfer" so the vehicle dosn't take the goods away it just brought (just like "Unload all" does).
18:36-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
18:37<Fast2>Be patient ;)
18:38<planetmaker>Unload all will not stop you loading afterwards :-)
18:40<planetmaker>it might maybe interesting to look into cargopacket*
18:40<planetmaker>or station*
18:41<planetmaker>though, did you look in order*
18:41<Fast2>Yes, but the vehicle doesn't load goods which are coming from the station the vehicle is going to visit next
18:41<Fast2>Hmpf, I'm too slow
18:42<Fast2>What's the meaning of the star?
18:43<planetmaker>replace * by anything :-)
18:43<planetmaker>there are several files which start with the string preceeded by the star
18:44<planetmaker>(same meaning as when using dir / ls in the command prompt)
18:45<Fast2>I see
18:45<Fast2>I thought there is something wrong with my client ;)
18:46<planetmaker>nope :-)
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19:24<noroot>hi all
19:25<noroot>I'm having trouble to run the latest nightly, on amd64
19:25<noroot>./openttd: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
19:26<Sacro>oh dear
19:26<Sacro>did you install libicui?
19:27<noroot>there is no such package in my distro
19:27<noroot>searching for 'libicui' or 'icui' isn't giving any results
19:29<noroot>and i did a 'my_package_manager --onlydeps openttd'
19:29<Sacro>what distro?
19:29<Sacro>why not build from source?
19:30<noroot>let's try
19:30<Fast2>planetmaker: Nothing fount till now...
19:31<planetmaker>Fast2: then grep the source for "transfer" or alike
19:31<planetmaker>it should give you the files...
19:31<planetmaker>I don't know either.... was just a guess
19:32<planetmaker>and now I'm off to bed :-)
19:32<planetmaker>good night
19:32<Fast2>Good night
19:32<Fast2>By the way: I'm a Windows user ;)
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19:34<Fast2>But thanks for the tips anyway. Maybe somebody else knows
19:35<Fast2>But for today it's enough for me, too.
19:36<Fast2>Good night
19:36<noroot>Sacro: hmm, when building from source i'm missing where to put the opengfx*.tar
19:37<noroot>it's in both ~/.openttd, the openttd dir with the makefiles and the bin dir
19:41<+glx>try ~./openttd/data
19:41<noroot>ok, thanks
19:42<noroot>strange, the self-compiled openttd is starting up wihtout the dependency error :/
19:42<+glx>probably because it's compiled without icu support :)
19:43<noroot>time for my bed now, if i start a new game this late i won't have sufficient sleep :p
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19:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17180 /extra/website/bananas/templates/bananas/tosInner.html: [website] -Fix [FS#2953]: wrong filenames in TOS for AI libraries
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20:13<Eddi|zuHause><noroot> searching for 'libicui' or 'icui' isn't giving any results <- the name splits into "lib" "icu" "i18n", so "icui" is probably not the best thing to search for
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 15 00:00:22 2009