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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-31

---Logopened Mon Aug 31 00:00:36 2009
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03:40<@Rubidium>DaleStan: explanation would be an upgrade of the compile farm that had an unwanted side effect in the TTDP VM (not loading a module)
03:56<TrueBrain>hmm .. by default linux doesn't seems to read GPT partitions :(
03:59<TrueBrain>GUID Partition Table
04:00<blathijs>Ah, that sounds useful and not necessarily obscure :-)
04:02<TrueBrain>as someone told me: EVEN WINDOWS SUPPORTS IT! :p
04:03<blathijs>Linux probably supports it, but apparently your distro doesn't enable it by default?
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04:04<TrueBrain>indeed :)
04:05<@Rubidium>like... windows XP/Vista support >4 GB of memory in x86, yet don't enable it by default?
04:06<TrueBrain>Rubidium: we established that yesterday
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04:22<planetmaker>g'morning folks
04:22<TrueBrain>howdie planetmaker
04:24<TrueBrain>well, there you have to start of my typing umount
04:27<planetmaker>umount /dev/irc ? ;-)
04:31<planetmaker>he... you have upx installed for windows and macos on your CF, but not for linux?
04:32<@Rubidium>I fucked up a bit when reverting to an older VM image
04:37*Rubidium is going insane
04:37<@Rubidium>I just fracking installed upx :(
04:37<@Rubidium>and it fails again on it
04:38<@Rubidium>and when I did a test compile it worked just fine with upx (AFAICS)
04:38<@Rubidium>tdev: what's the point in that?
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04:38<tdev>playing around with buildbot
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04:40<Terkhen>good morning
04:41<@Rubidium>tdev: then make it *very* clear that it is in no way related to any official openttd business
04:41<tdev>ok, wait
04:41<@Rubidium>I don't like getting complaints about it
04:42<@Rubidium>(like we get complaints about other people's custom builds)
04:43<tdev>done :)
04:43<tdev>not really ... :|
04:44<tdev>i was setting up some other buildbots, so i set up one for openttd as well :)
04:44<planetmaker>just add to that line "and not officially connected to So don't complain to the devs, if you have problems with anything displayed here, but contact <name, e-mail> instead"
04:45<@Rubidium>nevertheless it's failing :)
04:46<tdev>no, its still running
04:46<tdev>cppcheck needs long for your massice amount of source files ...
04:46<@Rubidium>cppcheck? why's that needed?
04:47<tdev>its not needed
04:47<tdev>its useful i hope :)
04:48<planetmaker>what does it do?
04:49<tdev>checking for common coding errors
04:49<tdev>but idk if thats something of quality yet.
04:49<tdev>see its output there:
04:50<tdev>for example: [src/group_cmd.cpp:96]: (error) Memory leak: g
04:50<@Rubidium>tdev: now, please reproduce that with the actual code
04:51<tdev>what do you mean?
04:51<@Rubidium>that it's a false positive
04:52<tdev>could be, as i said, idk if its of value
04:52<@Rubidium>as probably most (if not all) 'memory leaks' that it reports are
04:52<tdev>the lighttpd group found a memory leak and fixed it with that
04:53<tdev>if you have ideas for better static code analysis tools, just say ;)
04:53<@Rubidium>it's just that we're doing some tricks that make most static code analysis pointless
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04:54<@Rubidium>like most (if not all) variable not initialized warnings are due to it not figuring out that 'new' does memset(0)
04:55<tdev>yeah, i removed cppcheck...
04:57<tdev>it builds now, and should happily update upon every commit
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05:08<planetmaker>you'll be slower than the commit frequency at times.
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05:16<tdev>planetmaker, im sure it will handle that ;)
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05:31<@Rubidium>and regarding to lighttpd: they aren't really bothered about extreme memory usage
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06:33<remaxim>is openttd already playable without the original game?
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06:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes and no
06:36<planetmaker>yes and yes :-)
06:36<planetmaker>and yes and no ;-)
06:36<planetmaker>(in order of the climates in the main menu)
06:37<planetmaker>e.g. toyland is no fun with OpenGFX right now. If you're into drawing: contributions highly welcome
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06:41<Eddi|zuHause>and no, 0.7 does not yet support sound replacement (you can, however, play without sound with a little workaround)
06:43<Ammler>[12:37] <planetmaker> e.g. toyland is no fun with OpenGFX right now. <-- well, as much fun as with originial is it for sure.
06:43<planetmaker>well... different
06:44<planetmaker>black-box industries are hardly discernible.
06:44<Ammler>original toyland isn't playable at all ;-)
06:44<Ammler>or show me a screenshot thread with toyland...
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07:28<remaxim>oh, I just realized someone answered
07:29<remaxim>I promised to come back when there is some original content (= playable without the original game) and maybe try to create some music
07:29<remaxim>I don't really get if it is that far already
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07:35<Ammler>remaxim: maybe help OpenSFX to finish the first sournd replacement?
07:36<Ammler>I guess, there is no easy support for music replacement, and not sure, if there are serious plans to do so.
07:36<remaxim>Ammler, what is opensfx supposed to be?
07:36<Ammler>the sound replacement
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07:37<remaxim>so there is no code for playing sound?
07:37<Ammler>yes, there is.
07:37<Ammler>(in trunk (nightlies) at least
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07:38<Ammler>I thought, you like to make *music* replacement.
07:38<remaxim>that s what I thought about...
07:39<blathijs>remaxim: There is currently no code to support arbitrary music files, just the ones from the original TTD I think
07:39<remaxim>hm... I get it
07:39<blathijs>but if someone would create a cool music set, someone might work on integrating it, of course :-)
07:40<remaxim>thanks for the info
07:40<remaxim> ll maybe will have a look at the project in the future again
07:40<Ammler>remaxim: but it would be cool to finish the sounds ;-)
07:40<remaxim>Ammler, lol...
07:41<Ammler>again, sounds != music
07:41<remaxim>don't mistake me for a sound designer, that s something completly different
07:41<Ammler>ok, you see the difference :-)
07:41<remaxim>exactly ... why do you think I would do sounds?
07:42<Ammler>because those are nessecary, music isn't and imo there is also no need.
07:42<Ammler>as you can play music with your usual players.
07:43<remaxim>Ammler, with that attitude you ll scare away many people... I am a musician, I am not interested nor do I have the technical skills to create sounds
07:43<remaxim>that s like saying to a movie maker to draw a picture
07:43<remaxim>just not the same, and very insulting
07:43<Ammler>hehe, don't get me wrong.
07:44<Ammler>what does you stop from making music for ttd now?
07:44<remaxim>especially as in every second OSS project people don't get the difference
07:45<remaxim>Ammler, I don't feel like the project is that far yet... so I don't really have the urge to contribute some music yet
07:45<blathijs>remaxim: From a programmer's perspective, sound and music are both this weird audio thing we don't have any clue about :-p
07:45<Ammler>it plays music since 1995/96
07:46<blathijs>remaxim: That that far in what perspective? Because there is no support for alternative music sets?
07:46<Ammler>my "OpenTTD" has that since start.
07:47<Ammler>it might be very cool to play TTD like music.
07:47<remaxim>blathijs, I am a programmer as well ... I know that, but I feel like it belongs to the necessary soft skills to know the difference and acknowledge it as such one
07:47*Ammler isn't one, btw.
07:48<Ammler>programmers might be the minority in this channel.
07:48<remaxim>no, actually it's more about people saying "yes and no" on the game being playable alone
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>remaxim: the music driver should be able to play midi files, but don't count me on that
07:52<remaxim>Eddi|zuHause, thanks for letting me know.
07:52<remaxim>I have to go then
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08:06<TrueBrain>what was I doing ..
08:06<TrueBrain>ah yes, getting a working DSDT ..
08:11<blathijs>TrueBrain: Anything in particular you're trying to fix?
08:11<TrueBrain>OSX :)
08:11<TrueBrain>but iasl doesn't like the DSDT vbox gives
08:11<blathijs>It doesn't? That's stupid...
08:11<TrueBrain>it contains noops in invalid places ... now I wonder if it would be wrong if I just removed those noops ...
08:11<TrueBrain>stupid doesn't start to describe it ;)
08:12<TrueBrain>and DSDT is not the most documented thing of a computer :p
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08:15<TrueBrain>I hate it when I installed a new compiler and have to make a small change in my kernel ... a recompile is never funny :(
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>i have never done a kernel compile...
08:18<TrueBrain>90% of my systems run a custom kernel
08:19<TrueBrain>(including most of the production servers)
08:19<blathijs>same here
08:19<blathijs>Actually, 100% of my linux systems run a custom kernel I think
08:20<TrueBrain>I have a few 'vanilla' debian kernels
08:20<blathijs>Though my FlexVPS kernel isn't compiled by me :-p
08:23<@Rubidium>hmm... remaxim already left :( blathijs, technically OpenTTD doesn't care about the music files, so you can easily substitute them with others as long as they are in the same format (some kind of midi)
08:23<blathijs>Rubidium: Don't they need the same filenames then?
08:23<blathijs>(I thought OpenTTD had a hardcoded list of filenames and song titles?)
08:24<@Rubidium>that is true
08:25<Ammler>Rubidium: I would wait until he makes some music for openttd, else you implement music replacement and nbody makes them, like 32bpp sprites.
08:25<@Rubidium>but moving those filenames and song titles out of OpenTTD into some 'config' files should not be the big deal; without music there's no need to make it 'configurable'
08:26<@Rubidium>but without having it configurable you can make the music files; you'll just get the wrong title and you've got some naming 'issues'
08:26<@Rubidium>where 'issue' means that you need to name it like the old music files
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08:29<@Rubidium>how useful... 2 tickets for the price of 1 for Legoland Deutschland :(
08:29<@Rubidium>on a bottle bought in the NL
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08:39<TrueBrain>reboot time! :)
08:41<blathijs>TrueBrain: hf
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08:49<TrueBrain>whoho, the DSDT is accepted
08:49<TrueBrain>now only I need to find back the HD in the correct way ..
08:49<TrueBrain>it complains about invalid checksum cookie :p
08:50<@Rubidium>ooh... misbaksel! :)
08:50<TrueBrain>hehe, I guess
08:50<@Rubidium>poor cookie not fit for consumption
08:54<TrueBrain>bah bah bah, this is the part I hate about OSX ...
08:54*TrueBrain hugs Belugas
08:55<@Belugas>i'm working for the two next days with a guy from toronto
08:55<@Belugas>you hou
08:55<@Belugas>on card processing
08:55<@Belugas>you houo
08:55<@Belugas>hello TrueBrain
08:55<@Belugas>or schizo...
08:55<TrueBrain>all the above ;)
08:58<@Rubidium>weren't you like in Toronto about 2 weeks ago?
09:01<TrueBrain>bah bah bah ... so close ... and no idea how to solve this :(
09:01<@Belugas>i was, Rubidium, but in vacations ;)
09:01<@Belugas>so.. not entirely a business trip!
09:02<@Belugas>so... it means i would not be able to be too much of a party animal for the few days
09:02*Belugas runs on work
09:02<@Belugas>ave a nice day
09:14<TrueBrain>so the milion dollar question: why oh why does it not boot :p
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09:17<@Rubidium>oh, like weekend millionaires?
09:18<@Rubidium>I still have the 3 "whatever they're called in English, but the things to get help", right?
09:19<welshdragon>is there a way to convert all signals on a map?
09:19<TrueBrain>yes: the demolish tool
09:19<TrueBrain>converts them all to plain land
09:20<welshdragon>that's not good
09:20<TrueBrain>then you should be more specific I guess :)
09:20<welshdragon>i was!
09:20<welshdragon>ok then
09:21<welshdragon>how do i convert all semaphore signals to colour signals on a train line?
09:21<@Rubidium>oh... where's my 18-inch hammer-of-truth?
09:21*welshdragon runs away from Rubidium
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09:26<TrueBrain>sigh ... brick wall again
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09:30<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> I still have the 3 "whatever they're called in English, but the things to get help", right? <- i think i heard someone call them "life lines"
09:30<@Belugas>got your helmet on, TrueBrain?
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>(they're called "Joker" in german, which might be derived from card games)
09:33<TrueBrain>Belugas: yeah ...
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: is it made of tin foil?
09:33<TrueBrain>sadly enough, that too
09:34<TrueBrain>no page tells me what this 'invalid checksum' means and what I can do to fix it ..
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>because no sane osx user ever came across this situation?
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>(not implying that there exists such a person)
09:35<TrueBrain>enough people are trying OSX86 ;)
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09:54<TrueBrain>bah, enough is enough .. stupid OSX :(
09:54<TrueBrain>at least I can run it locally .. but vbox is giving me a hard time on something I don't understand :(
09:56<@Belugas>press "any key" ?
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10:07<@Belugas>pffff... that guy is slow... i use to run my certifications at a much higher speed :S
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10:35*Belugas needs music
10:35*Belugas cannot put headphones on
10:35<@Belugas>"fun" of working with someone else :S
10:36<@Belugas>freaking no-virtual-human-being-interface
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10:50<TrueBrain>k, more then enough OSX for today ....
10:50<+glx>you're more patient than me :)
10:54<@Belugas>or stuborn ;)
10:56<@Belugas>and i know how stuborn glx can be :)
10:56<Sacro>TrueBrain: sounds like you need to sort that too
10:56<Sacro>you booting -v -f?
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10:59<TrueBrain>Sacro: OH NO! The most obvious first suggestion any forum/website/person makes regarding this, I haven't tried yet! :)
10:59<TrueBrain>lol, sorry, but if you want to start making suggestions, ask for the problem, and help fixing them :)
11:00<TrueBrain>giving random of-the-stock suggestions won't help me, not even a bit :)
11:01<Sacro>TrueBrain: i've just woken up :P
11:01<Sacro>right, what are you getting?
11:02<TrueBrain>ATA Disk: checksum cookie not valid
11:02<TrueBrain>most likely because vbox fucks something up ... and I can't get it traced :(
11:02<TrueBrain>also the 10.6 installer is broken, it doesn't run all packages under root user
11:03<TrueBrain>and 10.4 installer refuses to start, telling me my system is not compatible
11:03<Sacro>I've never done it under Virtualbox, only KVM
11:03<Sacro>KVM and err... the other one
11:03<Sacro>qemu, but i had to patch quemu first
11:04<Sacro>i'm guessing you are trying an official disc, not a patched one
11:05<TrueBrain>it doesn't matter
11:08<+glx>virtual or real HD ?
11:12<TrueBrain>(well, as real as it can get under vbox)
11:13<Sacro>as in mapped to an actual partiton?
11:15<TrueBrain>as in: vbox emulates it anyway
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11:57<@Belugas>45 transactions already
11:57<@Belugas>long process...
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12:14<Zuu>I checked on but couldn't find anything that seamed to match fixing the issues with the last win32 nightly.
12:14<Zuu>Has the issue with last nightly not being compiled/available for win32 been addressed already?
12:17<@Belugas>looking at the commits since compile, i'd say no
12:21<@Belugas>mmh.. cannot find the compile logs either
12:21<@Belugas>of win32 that is
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12:23<TrueBrain>Zuu: only start to worry if a compile failed for more than 2 connected days
12:23<@Belugas>mbgrgroaaa mumblinggrrrr
12:23*Belugas silences stomach
12:23<Zuu>TrueBrain: Okay
12:23<TrueBrain>SILENCE! I KILL YOU!
12:23*TrueBrain loves Jeff Dunham :)
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12:26<TrueBrain>Zuu: so in 75 minutes you know if you really have to start to worry :)
12:28<Zuu>Figured that I really didn't need to upgrade in order to check which tags are used by different AIs. Other than I might miss some AIs out that require something newer than r16600.
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12:34<Zuu>Could of course check on my laptop where I have a much more recent nightly.
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12:38<+glx>Zuu: win32 compiles fine for me, so I just blame CF ;)
12:38<Zuu>glx: nice
12:39<Zuu>Thanks for checking out.
12:39<Zuu>Couldn't find any AIs available on r17295 but not on r16600.
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12:44<TrueBrain>Zuu: you could have just downloaded any older nightly :p
12:45<Zuu>But then i need to do it manually. If I have spent a huge amount of hours to write OpenTTD Auto Update, then of course I want to use it. :-p
12:46<TrueBrain>ghehehe :)
12:46<TrueBrain>fair enough ;)
12:46<@Rubidium>so that calls for a feature: the latest *available* nightly!
12:47<TrueBrain>Rubidium: we don't supply that info :p
12:47<Zuu>So that would require me to keep a list somewhere of nightlies that have been published as last nightly previously. => more work
12:47<TrueBrain>I think we need a buildbot
12:48*TrueBrain gniffels now
12:48<@Rubidium>well, doesn't "feature" imply "more work"?
12:48<Zuu>Though it could be intrepreted from the page
12:48<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: that requires running OSX native
12:48*Rubidium gniffles now
12:48<TrueBrain>Zuu: please don't ... HUGE page ...
12:48<TrueBrain>Rubidium: working on it ........
12:50<Zuu>TrueBrain: Don't wory, I am not in the mood for doing it and that would certainly require caching of that page.
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13:34<@Belugas>toumtedoum te PAM PAM!
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17332 /trunk/src/lang/ (english_US.txt german.txt italian.txt korean.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 1 changes by agenthh
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by Roujin
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 5 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 20 changes by darkhasa
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14:01<Kodak>how do i enable the trams?
14:01<Kodak>they seem to be disabled for my game :\
14:02<Zuu>Load a GRF with trams
14:02<Kodak>i can't after a game is started, can i?
14:02<Zuu>It might work to add it afterwards, as it is mostly removing that is dangerous.
14:03<Zuu>But definitely save before you add it.
14:03<Zuu>Also adding grfs that can conflict with other grfs can cause trouble.
14:03<Kodak>k, but i really don't bother with anything else
14:03<Kodak>generic tram set if alright with me
14:04<Zuu>Sure that is a good start.
14:04<Kodak>all the newgrf settings are greyed out though..
14:04<Kodak>do i have to do it from the main menu?
14:04<Zuu>Hmm, not if you want to affect a running game.
14:05<Zuu>Are you on a multiplayer game?
14:06<Zuu>When you got the generic trams grf loaded, then you click on the roads toolbar button and hold the mouse button and find a tram option there.
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14:09<Kodak>well it's a loaded multiplayer game, yeah
14:10<Kodak>i just don't get why it wasn't already loaded, the generic tram set
14:10<Kodak>we realised after starting the game
14:10<Kodak>and now it's 2003 -.-
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14:11<Zuu>If you want to have it loaded for new games, then you need to do that in the NewGRFs dialog in the main menu.
14:13<Zuu>That said, I just tried to load a multiplayer game I hosted long time ago with a friend, and the NewGRF settings are not grayed out.
14:13<Zuu>At least not the Add-button.
14:13<Zuu>Using r16600
14:13<Zuu>What OpenTTD version do you use?
14:14<Kodak>i loaded it in the main menu now anyway
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14:16<Kodak>hey, i loaded it in single player, and the Add worked
14:16<Kodak>gave me a warning it might crash, but i accepted
14:16<Kodak>no crash :P
14:16<Kodak>saved it, and gonna load in multiplayer now
14:16<Kodak>let's hope it works alright :P
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14:17<Kodak>seems to be working :)
14:22<Kodak>is there a shorcut key to access the road construction menu?
14:22<Kodak>or how about any of the other construction menus?
14:22<Kodak>i know "A" for railway
14:24<Zuu>And then 3 for autoroad
14:24<Zuu>(when you have opened the road toolbar)
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15:14<planetmaker>good evening
15:15<Prof_Frink>Evenin' Slarti
15:16<SmatZ>hello Ingo
15:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17333 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp yapf/yapf.h yapf/yapf_road.cpp):
15:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: make the road pathfinder 'interface' like the one for the rail pathfinder
15:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3057]: road vehicles forgetting their servicing order when the path takes them away (in bird distance) from their destination first
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15:33*Zuu waves
15:33*Belugas splashes
15:34<planetmaker>hm... where do I find e.g. the code which is executed, if an assert happens on a windows machine, which handles the information gathered and displayed in that case?
15:34<Zuu>You need the pdb file I think
15:35<frosch123>the crashlog thingie?
15:35<planetmaker>yes. The equivalent to what I find in
15:35<Zuu>As well as a dumpfile that has been created when OpenTTD crashes.
15:35*Rubidium thinks pm is looking for a filename, right? Tried win32.cpp?
15:36<planetmaker>no, I didn't try :-D
15:36<planetmaker>I was rather (unsuccessfully) grepping for things which came to my mind and might be in there, too
15:37<planetmaker>hm... why is macos stuff in src/os/macosx, but the windows stuff in src ?
15:37<@Rubidium>hysterical raisins :)
15:38<planetmaker>Zuu: thanks nevertheless. I should have been more clear
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15:41<TrueBrain>planetmaker: and because mac needs so many files :p
15:42<planetmaker>TrueBrain: the win* files are half as many as in src/os/macosx, but in size, they're twice as much code
15:43<TrueBrain>I know :p
15:43<planetmaker>pf. and I had to look it up ;-)
15:44<planetmaker>does the windows crash handler actually report the newgrfs used?
15:46<TrueBrain>I believe it does, but that you will need to look up :p :p
15:47<@Rubidium>yes it does
15:47<@Rubidium>or actually, it dumps the gamelog
15:48<@Rubidium>which is slightly more verbose than 'just' the NewGRFs that are used at that moment
15:48<TrueBrain>is it a general function?
15:48<TrueBrain>so why doesn't the OSX version have it? :p
15:48<planetmaker>hm... that then should be used there, too ^^
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15:49<@Rubidium>well, at least generic enough
15:49<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: primarily because of FS#2782
15:50<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I meant more: he who added it the general function, should have done OSX too :p :p
15:50<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: without a way to test it?
15:50<planetmaker>well. It's basically writing a text file.
15:50<planetmaker>Which is more or less OS-independent. Or is my conception of this crash.log wrong?
15:50<@Rubidium>yes, which osx isn't doing at the moment
15:51<@Rubidium>crash.log is only made for windows
15:51<@Rubidium>linux/osx don't do it
15:51<planetmaker>what does lin do in such case?
15:51<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I guess it is time to make all platforms generate such file?
15:53<@Rubidium>then you first need a way to reliably capture the crashes
15:54<TrueBrain>why? If it can generate it in 20% of the cases, it is more than in 0% ;)
15:54<planetmaker>the gamelog is started anyway, is it?
15:54<TrueBrain>either way, isn't signal() not reliable enough?
15:54<planetmaker>it's just not written, right?
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15:54<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: nope, it crashes on (some) OSXes
15:54<TrueBrain>ah, that problem :) But that was fixed, not?
15:55<@Rubidium>no, it was hacked around
15:55-!-Farden [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:55<TrueBrain>ah :) Still ;)
15:55*Rubidium wonders how signal and gdb work together
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16:01<planetmaker>sigXXX crashes some OSX? interesting...
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16:09<TrueBrain>Rubidium: so you say we first need to fix this rare case and exception, before we can make a system that generates crash.log for all systems?
16:09<TrueBrain>sounds a bit .. unreasonable
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16:10<@Rubidium>no, just don't expect me to make it for morhpos or os/2 or get it tested on OSX
16:10<planetmaker>hm, ok. 10.3
16:11<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I never did ;) I just asked if it wasn't time to do so :)
16:11<TrueBrain>I never asked you to do anything ;)
16:11<@Rubidium>in that case: it's always time for someone to code some improvement :)
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16:12<TrueBrain>so you agree it would be an improvment .. wasn't that what I was asking? :)
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16:14<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: not really; I interpreted as someone saying, 'TrueBrain, isn't it time to do the groceries?'
16:15<TrueBrain>haha, fair point :) Was not intended at all, as in fact I was kind of suggesting I took on that task .. or maybe planetmaker :p
16:15<@Rubidium>i.e. go do the groceries you lazy guy
16:16<TrueBrain>either way, strange defense: no, I don't do the groceries, as there might be a roadwork between here and the grociers , in a street I rarely take anyway :p
16:18<planetmaker>he... honestly, I think a complete cross-platform unification / partly re-write of how crashes are handled might be still a bit over my head
16:19<TrueBrain>planetmaker: 'complete' might be too much :)
16:19<TrueBrain>just the fact to generate a crash.log and put similar info in it, might be enough :)
16:19<TrueBrain>but okay .. I hope to help you soon on a few OSX issues :)
16:19<TrueBrain>if I ever get this darn vbox to work, or get my video-driver to work
16:19<TrueBrain>(as I am NOT going to develop in 1024x768
16:20<@Rubidium>lemoto deskutopu?
16:20<@Rubidium>or whatever OSX uses for that
16:21<TrueBrain>remote desktop?
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16:21<TrueBrain>not possible to your local machine :p :p
16:21<@Rubidium>:O he can 'understand' Japanese :)
16:21<TrueBrain>I can try to boot 2 OSes next to eachother, but I doubt he accepts that :p
16:22<@Rubidium>what? Parallels doesn't work?
16:22<TrueBrain>not without VT-X :p
16:22<planetmaker>parallels does work... in some environments :-)
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16:34<planetmaker>ok. In principle it's no problem to get the gamelog there, too. That works
16:34<planetmaker>Now I just need to get it written.
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16:38<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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16:48<TrueBrain>glx: <- might work for you?
16:51<+glx>hmm but he uses a real HD it seems
16:51<TrueBrain>that would suck
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16:52<+glx>though I'm not registered so I can't download the pdf
16:53<+glx>ha it's in the zip too
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17:02<+glx>TrueBrain: won't work for me
17:02<+glx>"as the CPU MUST also support VT-x extensions, and have a system BIOS that enables VT-x"
17:02<TrueBrain>too bad
17:02<TrueBrain>was worth a shot .. won't work here either
17:02<TrueBrain>oh well
17:02<TrueBrain>time to find my bed :)
17:02<TrueBrain>night all!
17:03<Noldo>what are you trying to do?
17:03<TrueBrain>getting OSX back under the 'supported' section
17:03<Nite_Owl>later TrueBrain
17:03<TrueBrain>although planetmaker is doing an good job so far :)
17:03<Noldo>and you need virtualized OSX to do it?
17:03<TrueBrain>or you want to buy us the hardware?
17:04<+glx>but not having VT-x (or AMD-V) is a problem for virtual machines only it seems
17:04<planetmaker>g'night TrueBrain
17:04<TrueBrain>glx: native you don't need VT-x for sure
17:04<TrueBrain>I can run OSX without VT-x :)
17:04<TrueBrain>you need voodoo-kernel if you have AMD
17:04<TrueBrain>(I can run vanilla kernels)
17:04<+glx>I can boot the installer on my machine :)
17:04<nicfer>I think that the local authority should be reworked
17:04<TrueBrain>and most of those installers have enough AMD hacks :)
17:05<+glx>but it just fails in vmware
17:05<TrueBrain>glx: but without virtualization it is a bitch to boot to OSX and work there
17:05<TrueBrain>out of your comfort-zone ;)
17:05<+glx>well 10.4.8 boots fine
17:05<+glx>it's just slow
17:06<+glx>but that's because missing vmware vesa 2 drivers for tiger
17:06<TrueBrain>you need speed to .. 45min per compile it not anywhere near a working env :)
17:06<TrueBrain>but okay, classes in the morning, good night :)
17:06<Xaroth>nn TrueBrain
17:06<+glx>same happens in linux or windows VM without vmware tools installed
17:06<+glx>as soon they are installed speed increase
17:07<nicfer>instead of disallowing you to build stations, how about making everything you build near there more expensive?
17:07<+glx>but vmware tools for OSX requires at least leopard
17:07<nicfer>lesser income for cargo moved from/to there?
17:07<Nite_Owl>two words: magic bulldozer
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17:08<nicfer>expensiver running costs
17:08<@Rubidium>256 MB of memory for your graphical card, is that a lot?
17:08<@Rubidium>for a dedicated server?
17:08<nicfer>two words: no cheating
17:08<@Rubidium>(which has no video output)
17:08<Xaroth>standard-ish nowadays with the new line graphic chips
17:08<Nite_Owl>two more words: no fun
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17:10<blathijs>Rubidium: Neh, it just allows you to run a second OS entirely in the graphics card...
17:12<nicfer>well, actually its no fun when the LA rejects you to build stations but still lets you fullfill everything around the city with land-owning signs or railtracks?
17:12<nicfer>or even worse, landfill everything you can
17:12<Nite_Owl>two further words: plant trees
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17:20<planetmaker> <-- This, of course, is just a quick hack, though it works with crash.log
17:20<planetmaker>Windows, though, uses a range of custom, more high-level commands.
17:20<planetmaker>Would it be wrong to resort to this low-level c syntax for any OS for the crash.log?
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17:40<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho :)
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18:13<PeterT>does openttd have support for windows 7?
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18:15<Eddi|zuHause>did you try?
18:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17334 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix: don't turn north just before approaching the landing strip of the small airport
18:17<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause, no
18:17<PeterT>windows 7 isnt released yet, silly
18:17<PeterT>just betas
18:18<Yexo>PeterT: so how should we know whether it works?
18:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17335 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_road.cpp: -Fix (r17333): don't return a pointer as boolean
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18:18<PeterT>someone with time and a computer could dl win7
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18:22<TinoDidriksen>Win7 is in RC, freely available though they now removed the downloads. I have it installed on my laptop.
18:22<PeterT>did you test openttd with it?
18:22<TinoDidriksen>No, but can do...
18:22<PeterT>would you?
18:22<SmatZ>OSX 10.6
18:23<PeterT>and make sure its a latest trunk
18:23<TinoDidriksen>Sure, just a few minutes.
18:23<SmatZ>a lot of "it doesn't work!" bugreports are coming :-/
18:23<PeterT>well, i meant, whenever you have time
18:23<PeterT>but SmatZ!! it doesnt work!
18:23<SmatZ>booh :(
18:24<PeterT>developers, how often do you look at and openttd problems forum?
18:24<Yexo>very often
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>the more often people ask, the less often they look
18:26<PeterT>what i though
18:26<SmatZ>bugs should go to anyway
18:26<PeterT>actual problems to openttd problems?
18:27<PeterT>recently, hyronumos (if thats how you spell it) locked a topic in openttd graphics, how did he do this without being an openttd developer?
18:27<PeterT>he is a moderator
18:27<PeterT>but it said moderators for openttd are the developers
18:27<Yexo>because he is a global forum moderator
18:28<Yexo>and not all developers are moderators
18:28<PeterT>oh i understand
18:28<PeterT>they aren't?
18:28<Yexo>only those with an orange name
18:28<PeterT>i know rubi_dium
18:28<Yexo> <- see there
18:28<TinoDidriksen>Downloaded r17332, installed, loaded a game...seems to work fine in Win7 RC 64bit.
18:29<PeterT>is that the latest trunk?
18:29<PeterT>or close?
18:29<TinoDidriksen>Was the latest nightly on the site...
18:29<Yexo>latest trunk is r17335 (as of 11 minutes ago)
18:30<TinoDidriksen>So reasonably up to date...
18:30<PeterT>i recently understood what "r" was
18:31<PeterT>not the number of days since the initial release
18:31<PeterT>it was the amount of changes done in a day
18:31<TinoDidriksen>Revision, yes.
18:31<PeterT>i was wondering because you skipped numbers
18:32<KenjiE20>lol, I'd love to see 17000 changes per day
18:32<PeterT>so, why is only bjarni, truebrai_n, matthijs, celestar_, petern_, and rubidi_um moderators
18:33<Xaroth>because they are also developers?
18:34<PeterT>so why not yexo?
18:34<PeterT>(and company0
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18:34<Yexo>PeterT: because they are also developers, and because orudge doesn't want to have too much moderators (a very valid point if you ask me)
18:35<@Rubidium>ofcourse it works in win7; it's not like apple where they remove a load of API each release and don't maintain APIs through more than 2 releases
18:35<PeterT>Yexo: then you have the same priviledges as the troll who spams the forums, what good is that?
18:35<TinoDidriksen>Actually, Win7 breaks quite a lot according to the interwebs...hence why they felt a need for XP Mode.
18:36<Yexo>PeterT: and the same privileges as you have, I don't see a problem?
18:36<Yexo>if I see spam / unwanted post I use the report function like every member can
18:36<PeterT>and moderators actually look at it?
18:36<Yexo>I suppose so
18:37-!-Combuster [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:37<Yexo>although I never get response the spam has always been removed
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18:37<Yexo>besides, it's not like the openttd forum needs more moderators
18:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17336 /trunk/ (31 files in 10 dirs): -Codechange: move some os specific files into src/os/
18:39<PeterT>why does it do that?
18:39<Yexo>what did what?
18:39<TinoDidriksen>It informs of new revision commits.
18:40<TinoDidriksen>Very useful so people know to svn up their own working copies.
18:40<Yexo>and it's easy to follow what is changing
18:40<PeterT>isnt there an ottd channel devoted to that?
18:40<Yexo>yes, #openttd.notice
18:41<PeterT>so basically, you download the source, change it however, then upload it again
18:41<TinoDidriksen>Not everyone can commit...
18:41<Yexo>PeterT: that's basically the process, but not everyone can upload their code
18:41<PeterT>just developers/
18:41<Yexo>and we use svn to track all changes
18:42<PeterT>what does it take for a patch to get into trunk?
18:43<TinoDidriksen>That it works and is approved by the developers.
18:43<Yexo>the patch having a clear goal (ie bug fix / 1 feature), and what TinoDidriksen said
18:43<PeterT>so why isnt amazing patches like server list filtering included?
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18:44<Yexo>because they are not approved yet by a developer ;)
18:44<PeterT>do you approve?
18:44<PeterT>i think its handy, dont you?
18:44<TinoDidriksen>It could be they disrupt too much of the code base to make their thing work...
18:44<Yexo>no idea, haven't looked at that patch recently
18:45<Yexo>PeterT: "approve" != the idea is nice
18:45<PeterT>TinoDidriksen, it works on 0.7.2?
18:45<Yexo>it also means checking the code, seeing of it complies to coding style and if there are no obvious bugs
18:45<Terkhen>I remember that one of the devs posted some issues with that patch, issues that weren't solved
18:45<PeterT>is cargodest coming soon?
18:46<Yexo>cargodest is very outdated by now
18:46<Yexo>so not soon
18:46<Xaroth>I doubt cargod*st is going in trunk any time soon
18:46<PeterT>cargodist, cargodest, i dont care which, just want one of them
18:46<PeterT>*would like ;)
18:46<Xaroth>compile it yourself :)
18:47<PeterT>i cant compile cargodist and IS
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18:47<Xaroth>IS should have precompiled binaries anyhow
18:47<PeterT>without compile fails, then crashes
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18:47<PeterT>Xaroth, you dont get it, do you?
18:47<Yexo>cargodist still crashes regurarly (according to reports in it's forum thread)
18:47<@Rubidium>talking about copy&paste?
18:47<PeterT>cargodist and IS
18:47<@Rubidium>or is my guess wrong?
18:48<PeterT>copy and paste should NEVER be in trunk!!!
18:48<Terkhen>server list filtering, cargodist and IS
18:48*Rubidium likes to guess what the topic is when lots of lines aren't displayed
18:48<Xaroth>so basically you want cargodist in trunk, so you can have somebody else make sure cargodist + IS works?
18:48<KenjiE20>Rubidium: lol
18:49<Terkhen>okay, next time I'll only answer with yes or no :P
18:49<PeterT>cargod*st in trunk, then i can patch with IS2.0-b3
18:49<PeterT>and create the ultimate patchpack
18:49<Xaroth>as i said
18:49<Xaroth>you want cargod*st in trunk, so you can have somebody else make sure cargod*st + IS works..
18:49<Xaroth>since else they wouldn't release a patch...
18:49<Xaroth>(i hope o_O )
18:50<PeterT>grr, nevermind
18:50-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
18:50<Yexo>PeterT: I can't even find a server list filtering patch (although I know it exists)
18:51<@Rubidium>Yexo: page #3
18:51<Yexo>ah :)
18:51<PeterT>actually, its number 2
18:51<PeterT>in search
18:52<fjb>If all the patches beside one are in trunk that one patch will really be a big patch pack.
18:53<@Rubidium>really? It'd probably be ln's "don't allow openttd to be started as root"-patch
18:54<@Rubidium>which basically adds like 1 line
18:54*AC6000 wonders if making $30,000,000 a year is too much....
18:54<Xaroth>30 million?
18:54<PeterT>sheesh, i just marked openttd forums as read, and within 2 minutes there are already 4 posts
18:54<@Rubidium>depends on the kind of $
18:54<AC6000>30 million USD :P
18:55<Xaroth>I usually don't stop till i reach the 100m/year
18:55-!-Polygon [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
18:55<AC6000>another 400 million and i'll have 1 billion
18:56<@Rubidium>if it's real USD it's quite a lot (for a single person), if it's in-game then probably not
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18:56<AC6000>trust me, id blow it all in a month :P
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18:57<@Rubidium>don't think I would; blowing it in 1 month and then 11 months getting (next to) nothing vs getting 2.5 million a month
18:58<TinoDidriksen>I wouldn't know what to spend it all on in a single month...
18:58<Xaroth>loooots of trains
18:59-!-reldred [] has joined #openttd
18:59*AC6000 is using 8 planes, 10 trains and 21 buses
18:59<PeterT>aha! 8 planes
18:59<AC6000>the buses are a transfer service :P
19:01<AC6000>10 million for train income
19:01<AC6000>double that for planes
19:02<AC6000>27,777,860 last year
19:02<PeterT>congratulations, stop bragging
19:02-!-Dreamxtreme [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:02<Xaroth>I hardly call that bragging.
19:03<AC6000>did i forget to mention i'm only using 2 airports? ^^
19:04<Xaroth>game where i tried out various AI.. last year's income, 240,456,032 euro
19:04<Xaroth>1036 trains, 1319 rv, 523 airplanes
19:05-!-reldred [] has left #openttd []
19:05<Xaroth>save game was a bit awkward tho, 7 AI's all steamrolling.. game is unplayable :P
19:06<AC6000>it would have crapped itself trying to load it :P
19:07<Terkhen>good night!
19:08-!-Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
19:08<AC6000> my largest station (still a WIP)
19:20-!-AC6000 [~AC6000@] has left #openttd []
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>... there is nothing to see here, move along ...
19:23<fjb>Boring station.
19:25<SmatZ>poor AC6k :-p
19:28<KingJ>Sorry, i've got to agree, that is pretty boring
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19:39<Coco-Banana-Man>Such a big station for 10 trains..? :O
19:40<SmatZ>each train has its own platform ;)
19:41<PeterT>AC6000, are you still running a server
19:41<KingJ>[00:20] * AC6000 (~AC6000@ has left #openttd
19:42<Coco-Banana-Man>well, some trains even more than one xD
19:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17337 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix: some more strange airport holding bay positions
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: is really onto these darn airports :p
19:43<Yexo>I have a (very basic, with lots of bugs) newgrf airport working
19:44<Yexo>where the statemachine is completely done by newgrf callbacks
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>"für die einen ist es ein Regexp, für die anderen der längste Smilie der Welt"
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>(derivate of a commercial spot)
19:48<fjb>Will the grf have to supply complete airports or do you parts from which you build your own layout like train stations?
19:48<Yexo>complete airports
19:49<Yexo> <- I am (very loosely) following that specification
19:50<SmatZ>@seen celestar
19:50<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: celestar was last seen in #openttd 18 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 51 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
19:50<PeterT>thats a while ago
19:50<PeterT>@seen PeterT
19:50<@DorpsGek>PeterT: PeterT was last seen in #openttd 9 seconds ago: <PeterT> thats a while ago
19:51<SmatZ>@seen tron
19:51<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: tron was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 29 weeks, 0 days, 10 hours, 27 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
19:51<SmatZ>@seen vurlix
19:51<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: I have not seen vurlix.
19:51<SmatZ>@seen ludde
19:51<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: ludde was last seen in #openttd 46 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 6 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <ludde> ;)
19:51<PeterT>the creator!
19:51<PeterT>if we didnt have ludde, we wouldnt have utorrent
19:52-!-PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
19:57<Yexo>good night
20:00-!-Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: .]
20:15-!-PeterT [] has joined #openttd
20:15<PeterT>@seen Born_Acorn
20:15<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Born_Acorn was last seen in #openttd 7 weeks, 6 days, 9 hours, 29 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <Born_Acorn> Bbl
20:15<PeterT>hehe, he hasnt said a word in 7 weeks :)
20:16<PeterT>Born_acorn talk!!!
20:25<PeterT>@seen DorpsGek
20:25<@DorpsGek>PeterT: I have not seen DorpsGek.
20:28-!-PeterT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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20:33-!-Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:39-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0-rc3]
20:53<PeterT>@seen KenjiE20
20:53<@DorpsGek>PeterT: KenjiE20 was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 4 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <KenjiE20> Rubidium: lol
20:58-!-Azrael- [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:58<welshdragon>@seen bot abuse
20:58<@DorpsGek>welshdragon: seen [<channel>] <nick>
20:58<welshdragon>@seen bot_abuse
20:58<@DorpsGek>welshdragon: I have not seen bot_abuse.
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21:04-!-Lakie [~Lakie@] has joined #openttd
21:04<PeterT>@seen welshdragon
21:04<@DorpsGek>PeterT: welshdragon was last seen in #openttd 5 minutes and 33 seconds ago: <welshdragon> @seen bot_abuse
21:04<PeterT>@seen noone's_in_here_why_does_it_matter
21:04<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: "noone's_in_here_why_does_it_matter" is not a valid nick. That nick is too long for this server.
21:04-!-PeterT is now known as the
21:05-!-the is now known as PeterT
21:06<welshdragon>@seen there's_me_and_Sacro_watching
21:06<@DorpsGek>welshdragon: I have not seen there's_me_and_Sacro_watching.
21:08*fjb doesn't want to know what Sacro is watching.
21:09<welshdragon>fjb: we all know Sacro watches pr0n
21:09<PeterT>i3am in europe, then you shouldnt be in IRC at 3am
21:09<welshdragon>it's 2am in the uk
21:09<PeterT>ok whatever
21:09<PeterT>you need to go to sleep
21:10<PeterT>good night all
21:10<fjb>We are the night shift.
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22:06-!-fjb_ is now known as fjb
22:06<planetmaker>Rubidium: in os2.cpp: shouldn't #include "table/strings.h" be #include "../../table/strings.h" ?
22:10<+glx>nobody compiles for OS2 ;)
22:11<+glx>but you're probably right
22:26-!-Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
22:42-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:99ed:4fa7:4cc4:b7fe] has quit [Quit: bye]
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 01 00:00:37 2009