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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-09-23

---Logopened Wed Sep 23 00:00:57 2009
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01:57<dihedral>morning :-)
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02:03<dihedral><PeterT> [02:32:57] Somebody send Rubidium my regards for fixing my bug. Thank you. <- you mean a bug you have found, or YOUR BUG?? :-P
02:04<Xaroth>hopefully the latter
02:05<Xaroth>I would almost pay to have the bug known as PeterT.. being fixed....
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02:20<dihedral> <- looks interesting :-)
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02:24<Terkhen>good morning
02:26<Xaroth>dihedral: agreed
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04:32<arfonzo>hi all, is there a way of removing of these debug messages without recompiling: dbg: [net] [udp] queried from 'ip address'
04:32<arfonzo>my logs are absolutely unreadable...
04:33<dihedral>debuglevel = 0
04:33<dihedral>./openttd -d 0
04:33<dihedral>something along those lines
04:35<arfonzo>dihedral: thank you, will this allow me to log player chats?
04:35<dihedral>player chat is not debug
04:36<arfonzo>i wasn't able to find much info on debug levels and what gets logged.. perhaps i wasn't looking on the right page on the wiki though
04:36<arfonzo>great, thanks dihedral
04:36<dihedral>what os are you on?
04:36<arfonzo>linux x64
04:36<dihedral>just out of curiosity
04:36<arfonzo>for the dedicated server anyhow
04:36<dihedral>you might like ap+
04:36<dihedral>or autopilot
04:36<arfonzo>hm, more details please? I haven't run our dedicated host for about 2 years now so I'm a little out of date... :) :(
04:37<arfonzo>what exactly does it/they do
04:37<dihedral>they wrapp a openttd dedicated server
04:38<dihedral>they are bots for the game
04:38<dihedral>read what openttd prints on the console, and can automate actions based on that
04:38<dihedral>+ they can bridge the chat to an irc channel
04:38<dihedral>with ap+ you can also easily write your own commands
04:39<arfonzo>oh wow... this is actually probably exactly what I'd like to accomplish
04:39<dihedral>e.g. saying !time in the game will make the server chat back with the current time
04:39<dihedral>we are working on a rewrite, but that project has grown a bit and is still pre-alpha :-P
04:40<arfonzo>sounds interesting indeed, do you have a URL I can check out
04:41<dihedral>just looking for that
04:43<arfonzo>thanks, i will look at this later tonight, i've just actually just started work so i don't think my company would appreciate me playing with my openttd server atm... unfortunately!
04:43<dihedral>if you need support, etc. feel free to join #codecubes
04:43<arfonzo>do i need to recompile openttd or does this work purely by reading the openttd.log?
04:45<dihedral>it starts openttd for you
04:45<dihedral>also has the abbility to log to a mysql db
04:45<dihedral>what's your openttd servers name
04:46<arfonzo>sec let me grep it
04:47<arfonzo>server_name = [0x0] PoorCoding Public Dedicated Server (until 2400AD)
04:47<dihedral>you are not advertising :-P
04:47<arfonzo>hm, it was as of last night...
04:48<dihedral>not in the list
04:48<arfonzo>apologies, it was renamed and hasn't reloaded
04:50<arfonzo>it's currently about 3-day long games, I think I'm going to cut it down to 24 hours games... autoclean is wreaking havoc and I don't know if there is a good balance of values for autoclean for 3 day games
04:52<dihedral>at least in trunk, it's possible to remove only companies that have no vehicles
04:53<dihedral>i dont know about 0.7.2
04:53<arfonzo>i believe that option was in 0.7.2's .cfg as well
04:53<arfonzo>so should autoclean protected and unprotected be set to 0, and only use novehicles?
04:55<dihedral>once you can script around openttd (e.g. by using ap+) you can write your own :-P
04:56<arfonzo>excellent... looking forward to checking out ap+
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05:44<Eddi|zuHause>gnah... gui stuff is making me crazy... wtf was i thinking!
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07:21<arfonzo>dihedral: I've just run 'openttd -d 0 -D' however the "query" lines are still showing up
07:21<arfonzo>also, is there a way to force openttd to write to openttd.log even tho it's not invoked with the -f option?
07:21<arfonzo>(i.e., to have console and to log)
07:22<planetmaker>arfonzo, tee is the tool which pipes into to things at once
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07:23<dihedral>arfonzo, there is a console command debuglevel
07:24<@Rubidium>arfonzo: as the man page states: use -d after -D
07:27<dihedral>heh...? -d after -D? there is an order to those options?
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07:28<arfonzo>Rubidium: thanks, I was following the synopsis without reading the options section :)
07:28<@Rubidium>-D sets some debug levels, as described in the manpage
07:29<@Rubidium>as such, -D overrides some of the debug levels set by any -d that is ran before it, but is overridden by the -d that is after it
07:32<arfonzo>planetmaker: thanks... i forgot about tee!
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07:32<dihedral>Rubidium, thanks for that info
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08:19<crakinshot>hey planetmaker, you see the update I did?
08:23<davis`> :]
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08:26<Sacro>perhaps not entirely sfw
08:26<arfonzo>i had to try...
08:26<crakinshot>thanklyfuly I have an office all to myself. :D
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>"STR_TINT_GROUP :{TINYFONT}{GROUP}" <-- any chance that should have been "TINY" instead of "TINT"?
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08:52<+glx>a very high probability :)
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09:23<SpComb>hmm, cargodist?
09:25<CIA-4>OpenTTD: glx * r17619 /trunk/src/ (53 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: rename STR_TINT_GROUP to STR_TINY_GROUP
09:25<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: happy ?
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: context?
09:26<@Rubidium>I guess he's thinking it's a typo
09:26<SpComb>no, I see it's a new project
09:26<@Rubidium>for different values of new
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, my thought exactly...
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>"new" if you have been sleeping for one year
09:27<@Rubidium>unless 7 months means 'new'
09:27<SpComb>well, post-cargodest
09:27<SpComb>and I have been sleeping for a year
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>then yes.
09:28<SpComb>so if I want to play OpenTTD, but I don't want to play with the origional passenger routing stuff, what do I play? :(
09:28<@Rubidium>a cargo only game?
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>i have not tested cargodist yet
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09:30*Rubidium isn't fond of either implementation due the design choices made
09:31<KingJ>I love cargodist, encourages network building
09:31<SpComb>it seems like it's a difficult problem due to the cargo-generation bit
09:31<SpComb>been a while since I played cargodest so I can't remember exactly, but there were some random issues
09:32<KingJ>I think there is a bug in the latest one where cargo isn't transfered unless a transfer order is explicitly made
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09:33<KingJ>E.g, Pax at A want to go to C,D,E. To get there, they have to get a train via B. However, at B, the train from A unloads and the passengers do not appear on the station at B.
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09:45<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you just didn't enable it?
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09:51<KingJ>Link graphs appear on the minimap
09:51<KingJ>I'll check though
09:54<KingJ>As far as I see it's enabled (unless i've missed a specifc enabling option), stations have passengers waiting at them for various destinations. It's just that when passengers change at a station, they dissapear
09:55<KingJ>And if a station dosen't accept passengers (e.g out of town bus/train transfer station) passengers won't transfer
09:55<KingJ>unless you explicitly tell them to
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>there were recent commits about cargo acceptance in trunk, maybe they broke something
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09:56<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the right place to ask is the forum thread ;)
09:57<KingJ>And hm, it seems any train can take cargo for any destination, something's odd here
09:58<KingJ>Forum thread here I come :)
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10:02<KingJ>Wonder if is interfering, a lot of the trains are timetabled
10:04<KingJ>Aha! That is the problem indeed!
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>then maybe that commit has not been backported to cargodist yet
10:05<KingJ>I don't think it has
10:05<KingJ>The one i'm using was built on the 12th
10:05<KingJ>That fix was commited on the 15th
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>then you missed the part about "before submitting bug reports, update to the latest version first"
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>so... what happened to "GetVehicleOrder"?
10:09<@Rubidium>well, find the commit that removed it
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd commit 16397
10:11<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r16397 /trunk/src (8 files in 2 dirs) (2009-05-23 12:27:42 UTC)
10:11<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: -Codechange: move GetVehicleOrder/GetLastVehicleOrder into Vehicle
10:19<crakinshot>is everything new moving toward Name::Get() rather than GetName() ?
10:19<crakinshot>personally I like structure statics because I can protect access functions and friend only stuff that should be using them
10:20<crakinshot>for instance, my SignalEx constructors are private and friend the SaveLoad functions
10:21<crakinshot>so only SignalEx::Create(tile) can actually make them
10:21<crakinshot>which then does all the correct type checking
10:21<crakinshot>and tile alteration
10:23<crakinshot>but with loading of course, it just wants to make the pool items.
10:23<@Belugas>is everything new moving toward Name::Get() rather than GetName() ? <-- i think it's done only when serving a purpose
10:25<crakinshot>right ok
10:27<crakinshot>Out of interest, is it unlikely my patch will get in unless something actually uses it?
10:28<@Rubidium>if everything someone once made would get in there'd be a vast quantity of unused stuff lingering around
10:28<crakinshot>hmm... well I mean that's okay because I'm working on something that'll use it.
10:29<@Rubidium>(not to mention the amount of projects that fails to get the last 10% done)
10:29<crakinshot>but if there are any other signal patches in the works (that need a lot of stored data) it probably would be better to get them to use this method. at least in my opinion
10:30<crakinshot>specifically, if anyone is working on restricted or programmable signals
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10:33<@Rubidium>that's what the forum's for
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10:34<@Rubidium>(and IRC)
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10:36<Eddi|zuHause>what i could occasionally use would be defining an exact path through the juncton, e.g. "if (cargo==livestock) go (left, straight, straight, right, straight, platform 5)"
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10:37<crakinshot>that's generally what I'm hoping to do
10:38<crakinshot>although seperate it into two
10:39<crakinshot>one that defines theatres Theatre1= (left, straight, straight, right, straight, platform 5) and another extention for programmable signals, if (cargo==livestock) go to Theatre1
10:41<crakinshot>untimatly I just want the little feathers on the signals to light up indicating what route the train is taking.. hehe. ;)
10:41<crakinshot>everything else is to make it more worthwhile to everyone else
10:41<welsh>crakinshot: as well as feathers: can we have little numbers, and call on signals?
10:41<Sacro>can't have call on
10:42<Sacro>openttd doesn't support mutiple trains per block
10:42<crakinshot>then how does crashes work?
10:42<Sacro>well that's a SPAD
10:42<crakinshot>But you could just alter that code and add in the condition that the train has call-on
10:43<crakinshot>then when the train gets to the other train, instead of crashing they merge
10:43<crakinshot>simple done
10:43<Sacro>the train code would need to be able to look for trains in section
10:43<crakinshot>yeah, but thats already done in the crash code
10:45<crakinshot>my long term asperations is to add on realistic deceleration
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10:45<Sacro>yellow/double yellows?
10:45<crakinshot>so they'd slow a train down
10:46<crakinshot>if a train just had a red, it wouldn't be able to stop in time
10:46<crakinshot>so you get SPAD's and it makes the game, well more into a game
10:46<crakinshot>if you've set up your track wrong, trains would likely pass red and crash
10:47<@Belugas>[10:45] <crakinshot> my long term asperations is to add on realistic deceleration <--- took you quite a long time to spit it out... BEURK
10:47<welsh>ignore Belugas
10:47<welsh>he hates realism
10:47<crakinshot>I know
10:47<crakinshot>but he said it was because it made the game easier (on my post)
10:48<crakinshot>when it would make the game harder and more interesting.
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>yellow signals can increase capacity on conjested lines
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>because faster trains would not stop on every signal, but instead slow down towards the speed of the slower train in front of them
10:49<Muxy>Eddi: i agree
10:50<crakinshot>yup, definatly something I'd use
10:51<welsh>being able to select a signal at a loop/station and direct trains would be good too
10:52<crakinshot>welsh: can we have little numbers, and call on signals? <-- you'd probably be able to show call-on's (1pixel for the lights), but I doubt you'd be able to make out numbers for the theatres
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm, what's the difference between "SetWindowWidgetDirty" and "w->SetWidgetDirty"?
10:52<welsh>as you could get trains to overtake, and feel a bit more in control :)
10:54<crakinshot>thats probably more toward train orders and platform definitions
10:54<crakinshot>order trains to use a range of platforms only
10:55<crakinshot>so you can have terminal platforms and through-platforms
10:55<crakinshot>but trains terminating at that station will get off the mainline
10:55<Sacro>crakinshot: doooo eeet
10:56<Sacro>and flashing greens too
10:56<Sacro>for 140MPH running
10:56<crakinshot>I could probably throw something up for the platform and train orders
10:56<Sacro>might want to differ between permissive passenger and permissive freight too
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>over here, flashing green means speed limit ahead
10:56<Sacro>here means next signal is flashing green or green
10:57<Sacro>and can do 140 if train is allowed
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>in Hl system, flashing green means speed limit = 100km/h
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>on the next signal
10:58<Muxy>beter decelerate fro 50% of its original speed
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>flashing yellow means speed limit is 40 or 60 km/h on the next signal
10:59<@Belugas>you do understand that having some flashes in x colors means the user will have to interpret the data? That starts to get a bit too much of an expert system, doesn't it??
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>(which of both can only be signalled on the main signal)
10:59<crakinshot>well you can generalise it somewhat in code and have the GRF choose how to render
11:00<Muxy>stop flashing, use a yellow signal
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>you really can't model the full extent of every signalling system
11:00<crakinshot>Belugas: combo signals still confuse me. :D
11:01*Belugas nods
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>if it were up to me, those would have been removed with YAPP :p
11:03<crakinshot>arn't they now completely depreciated by PBS?
11:03<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: then we are lucky :-P
11:03<Ammler>crakinshot: they aren't but you should be able to build without.
11:04<@Belugas>don['t touch my regular signals!!
11:05<crakinshot>don't worry, they become 2 aspect in my reeeaaalistic signalling model. :D
11:06<crakinshot>Ammler: so there are still cases where combo's solve the problem and PBS cannot?
11:06<Ammler>It would be easier to drop pbs
11:07<Ammler>crakinshot: well, mainly priorities.
11:08<@Belugas>PBS was dropped at one point
11:09<@Belugas>but when it went back, the crowd aws extatic
11:09<crakinshot>yeah I do love PBS when it comes to junctions
11:10<Ammler>I think it rather ugly, if you use pbs signalls on line without split/join
11:10<Sacro>PBS = controlled signal
11:10<Sacro>normal = automatic signal
11:11<blathijs>PBS signals should have an operating cost of 100 times as high as a normal signal :-)
11:11<Ammler>yeah, indeed :-)
11:11<crakinshot>but its still essentially the same thing.
11:11<@Rubidium>nah, a higher failure rate :)
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11:12<crakinshot>except with PBS the block is a rail route, while with normal the entire junction is locked
11:12<blathijs>Rubidium: Random red signals on your main lines every now and then :-)
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11:13<@Belugas>hooo... that is a wikedly good idea!!!
11:14<crakinshot>I remember the signalbox controlling the line I was on got hit my lighting
11:14<planetmaker>and it would be realistically!
11:14<crakinshot>all signals failed
11:14<planetmaker>in case of failure the fail-save mode is red for signals.
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>if the signal is "dark", the train must assume it is red, and call for permission to pass
11:15<crakinshot>I think thats what happened
11:16<crakinshot>signal transformer box got hit
11:16<crakinshot>anyhow, Belugas just liked a realistic idea
11:17<@Belugas>i never said i was 100% opposed to it...
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11:17<welsh>Belugas: but it's the r word
11:18<welsh>you hate it ;)
11:18<@Belugas>i always said that adding jsut because it adds realism is a stupid idea
11:18<crakinshot>yeah yeah I guess at that point it really just was for looks
11:18<@Belugas>if the only argument for a feature is that it adds realism, it's a bogus feature
11:19<@Belugas>so, yes, if it's a look that is aimed at, it's ridiculous
11:19<@Belugas>because if you want to have a more realiastic look, can you imagine all the things that need to be fixed?
11:19<@Rubidium>Belugas: haven't you learned that people can't handle nuances? Either you dislike 'realistic' stuff or not; you can't like some 'realistic' stuff :)
11:19<@Belugas>that would not be TTD anymore
11:20<@Belugas>yeah... people have binary opinions :(
11:20<@Belugas>maybe i'm too much involved in music, where nuances are everything :S
11:22<Muxy>yellow signal is a kind of nuance
11:23<crakinshot>Well these ideas I have all add more interest and flavour to the gameplay, and of course, can be chosen to be enabled... it just happens to be a coincidence that the by-product is a new look
11:23<crakinshot>I think that's the main point through. If you have a good patch that adds a new dimension, people don't HAVE to enable it.
11:24<Muxy>and in that case this dimension add a kind of reality AND improove game play
11:25<crakinshot>plus its not taken from TTDPatch.
11:26<crakinshot>I couldn't figure out whether the dev's didn't like the programmed signals in general, or because it was a feature TTDPatch had that people wanted
11:28<DaleStan>My understanding (I am not a dev, I do not speak for the devs, yadda yadda) is that the devs believe route restrictions and programmable signals have a UI that is too complicated for the average user.
11:29<+glx>orders GUI is already too complex for some users
11:30<crakinshot>I didn't like the "Stop at far end" patch
11:30<crakinshot>too much information on one screen
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>well, my original patch unconditionally made trains stop in the middle
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>but some people wanted it configurable, e.g. for terminal stations
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11:33<@Belugas>yeah... people always want more... give a finger, they want the arm
11:33<@Belugas>then you raise the finger ^_^
11:33*Belugas shuts up
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11:34<Eddi|zuHause>you ever found that image you lost? :p
11:35<@Belugas>got anouther one :)
11:37<crakinshot>right I'm off home.
11:38<crakinshot>I might try doing the deceleration stuff tonight, and laugh at all the trains SPAD'ing
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11:39<planetmaker>apropos music... the last music file I downloaded from some openttd page was quite nice :-)
11:40<@Belugas>hem... which one?
11:40<@Belugas>the tempo one?
11:41<@Belugas>There has been some new lately
11:42<planetmaker>the one you gave me the direct link to... is already a few days ago.
11:42<@Belugas>tempo indeed :)
11:42<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17620 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17502): edit box offsets were off. Now they're still off, but look (in my opinion) even better than before
11:42<@Belugas>i really love that one :D
11:43<planetmaker>well, yes, that fit :-) Nice changes of those and of those two instruments :-)
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12:07<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17621 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Document [FS#3216]: most of the functions an AI can/must use in their instantiation of AIInfo.
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12:15<Eddi|zuHause>i can't repair my switch :( ... the glue is not strong enough
12:16<@Belugas>metal epoxy
12:16<@Belugas>have some at home
12:16<@Belugas>freaking good glue
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>how do i get a needle-head sized amount of this on my switch?
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12:22<Eddi|zuHause>no. Piko
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12:23<@Belugas>WITH A NEEDLE?
12:23<@Belugas>with a needle?
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>needles i have, glue is the problem
12:24<@Belugas>have solutions, stores, to your problem
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>that opens a whole lot of other problems :p
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12:30<andythenorth>hmmm....dropping mac support. I can't file that under 'awesome' :|
12:30<andythenorth>I see the case. I've posted in the thread
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12:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i have a feeling i'm not getting forward with this gui crap...
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>there is apparently a new widget defined, but the only occurance within this patch is a "HideWidget" statement
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12:49<Sacro>Wolfenstien recalled in Germany
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12:51<Sacro>oh it's the new one
12:51<Sacro>over a small flyer shown on an ingame wall
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>apparently, they missed removing a swastika
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12:53<Eddi|zuHause>display of nazi-symbols is forbidden in germany, except for scientifical or historical purposes
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12:55<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: the old version always was "indexed" [which is as close to "forbidden" as it gets]
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13:04<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: is there still purpose of that?
13:05<@SmatZ>forbidding nacistic symbols
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>well... the "purpose" is always questionable...
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>it's the law, and nobody seriously wants to change it
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13:06<Eddi|zuHause>"use of anticonstitutional symbols"
13:06<@SmatZ>it has been 60 years
13:07<@SmatZ>forbidding things isn't solution, better explain why something is bad
13:07<@SmatZ>and I believe children in Germany get good education
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>have you read any of the recent PISA results? :p
13:08<@SmatZ>I think I did, but I forgot most of it...
13:09<@SmatZ>I was looking at the worst countries :-p
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, don't expect anything to change in the near or medium future...
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>if at all, pressure is done into making it worse...
13:10<@SmatZ>people want freedom, and if they feel it's being taken from them, they will be unhappy :-p
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's fine as long as more people are made happy by forbidding other people to do something :p
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>but with all the "internet laws", the balance might tip in the near future ;)
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>as more of the "internet generation" become eligible to vote
13:12<@SmatZ>I hope so
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>over the past couple of years, the pirate party went from 0.5% in Hessen over 0.9% in european election to 1.9% in Sachsen
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>next sunday is $BIG_ELECTION
13:13<@SmatZ>actually, I am seriously considering voting our pirate party
13:13<@SmatZ>for "freedom" reasons
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13:15<@SmatZ>not that I think "pirating" software is fine, but current situation is unbearable
13:16*Rubidium wonders whether google has been banned in Germany :)
13:16<@Rubidium>at least last time I used Google Earth it used swastikas for temples in Japan
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that would make us seriously worse than china :p
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13:32<Eddi|zuHause> <-- this might be something for Sacro ;)
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13:41<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so *that* was the reason they stopped broadcasting ARD here
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17622 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: catalan - 8 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: dutch - 5 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: english_US - 9 changes by agenthh
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: indonesian - 5 changes by prof
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>hm... of course the egyptians are angry when their candidate does not get elected...
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14:20<@petern>who's good with leaseweb?
14:21-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:23<@petern>just need a support/abuse/etc type email address
14:23<@petern>got one of those fucking w00tw00t bots coming from an ip in their space
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14:23<@Rubidium> ?
14:24<TrueBrain>As with all such problems: whois <ip> gives you a abuse-mailbox
14:24<@petern>yes i know
14:24<TrueBrain>whois <ip> | grep abuse-mailbox
14:24<@petern>but i didn't bother reading that
14:25<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I rarely use any contact information on such page .. reports about spam and other virusses mostly get ignored by those addresses :) The emails given in the RIPE data is mostly more effictive
14:25<TrueBrain>calling those numbers even more .... :p
14:25<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: have you read the page?
14:25<TrueBrain>nope :)
14:25<@Rubidium>well, it lists
14:25<TrueBrain>good for them
14:25<@Rubidium>which is also listed in your whois query
14:26<@Rubidium>so if it gets ignored, then the email in the whois query would be ignored too
14:26<TrueBrain>that would make Leaseweb one of the few ... I rather pick a single CLI command to find such address, then to open my browser, try to locate the right page ......
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14:27<@petern>well, we'll see
14:28<TrueBrain>petern: but I think it goes a bit too far to report to leaseweb :p (ghehe, just kidding, of course)
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>what's the right replacement for "!HASBITS(a, b)"?
14:30<@Rubidium>AFAIK there isn't one
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>my logic is poor today
14:30<TrueBrain>~a^b .. I need to look op operator orders for that :p
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>bah, i must learn to think in bitwise operations
14:31<FauxFaux>23/19:31:30 < FauxFaux> geordi: --precedence ~a^b
14:31<FauxFaux>23/19:31:30 < geordi> (~a)^b
14:31<@Rubidium>and depending on what was actually meant with that, because HASBITS was kinda 'wrong'
14:32<@Rubidium>it was more has at least of the bits
14:32<@Rubidium>for what it's worth: #define HASBITS(a, b) ((a) & (b))
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>so !(a&b)?
14:34<@Rubidium>although that *might* be incorrect if the original coder had an incorrect assumption about HASBITS
14:35<Eddi|zuHause> if (!HASBITS(orders->GetHeadwayFlags(), HWFB_ACTIVE | HWFB_INITIALIZE)) return CMD_ERROR;
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if you can read an intention out of that...
14:36<@Rubidium>not really; not familiar with the content of that 200k? patch
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, about that...
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't have a lot of conflicts... just the gui stuff is making me crazy, and a lot of plain cleanup replacements (like StringIDs and function-memberisation
14:40<CraKinShOt>if I'm reading this correct, a train is only stopped if v->force_proceed is false
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like the plan
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14:41<Eddi|zuHause>"force_proceed" is the skip-signal button in the vehicle window
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14:41<CraKinShOt>well this'll make things interesting
14:41<CraKinShOt>can simulate SPADs
14:42<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: (a & b) == 0
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>if that's what the coding style requires, i will use that, yes
14:43<Prof_Frink>CraKinShOt: No we can't. That would be realistic.
14:44<CraKinShOt> "/* v->force_proceed == 0 */"
14:45<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: code style does not seem to demand that
14:45<Prof_Frink>Dreamxtreme: Let's get this straight... You're complaining about having to live in the Peak?
14:46<Dreamxtreme>heh yea
14:46<Dreamxtreme>its in the middle of nowhere
14:46<Prof_Frink>But but but...
14:46<Dreamxtreme>not much nightlife
14:46<Prof_Frink>Lots of grit.
14:46<Dreamxtreme>i dont drive
14:47<Prof_Frink>Not road grit.
14:47<Dreamxtreme>and besides you cant get the Sheffield on the road or train in rough winter weather
14:47<Dreamxtreme>what grit then
14:47<@petern>who'd what to get to sheffield...
14:48<Prof_Frink> <-- That grit.
14:48<Dreamxtreme>what are you referring to the rock faces ?
14:49<Dreamxtreme>Sheffield had a make over petern its nice now
14:50<Dreamxtreme>why is that good Prof_Frink
14:50<Prof_Frink>Friction. Lots of it.
14:50<Dreamxtreme>why do i need friction
14:51<Prof_Frink>To stick to the rock.
14:51<Dreamxtreme>i dont rock climb
14:51<Dreamxtreme>i hill climb though
14:51<Dreamxtreme>climbed up Kinder Scout
14:52<Prof_Frink>My mate took a photo of some people climbing up Kinder. It's in the new guidebook.
14:52<Dreamxtreme>o nice
14:52<Dreamxtreme>well i did it one handed
14:54<Prof_Frink>The guys in his photo were using both hands, and spiky things.
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14:55<Prof_Frink>Ummm, no. Kinder Downfall in winter conditions.
14:56<Dreamxtreme>i had to hold a aerial in 1 hand
14:56<Dreamxtreme>try nevis in winter
14:56<Dreamxtreme>almost impossible
15:00<Prof_Frink>Dreamxtreme: What, like ?
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>"I cant see what would take so long to add these essential features," <- O.M.G. i can't bear it anymore...
15:01<Dreamxtreme>thats Real climbing
15:02<Prof_Frink>I want to. Planning to do a PYB/Glenmore Lodge course in the new year.
15:02<Dreamxtreme>what features Eddi|zuHause ?
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>the "upcoming features"
15:02<Dreamxtreme>glenmore is nice
15:02<@Belugas>he's a troll
15:02<@Belugas>he's a nutcrack
15:02<@Belugas>the world should bow before him
15:03<Dreamxtreme>curved railroad tracks,!!!
15:04<@Belugas>we'll imlpement that
15:04<@Belugas>and then,
15:04<@Belugas>it willbe OpenMotion
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>"people traving cramed into cattle sheds" <- i'd be arrested if i described that as a "realistic feature"
15:05<Prof_Frink>I'd be shot if I described that as "realistic spelling".
15:05<Dreamxtreme>lol 3rd class Eddi|zuHause
15:06<CraKinShOt>haha lol
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>well... it has ... certain ... cultural ... connotations...
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15:07<Dreamxtreme>ive never heard of 3rd class on trains
15:07<Dreamxtreme>or do you mean planes
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>3rd and 4th class did exist
15:07<Dreamxtreme>ooooo yes it does
15:08<Dreamxtreme>in Thailand
15:08<Dreamxtreme>and yes they do share with cattle
15:08<Prof_Frink>I think Eddi|zuHause was thinking more european.
15:10<CraKinShOt>hmm, is train speed handled seperatly outside TrainController?
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>the decision to use only 2 classes is fairly recent (railway-developmentally-speaking)
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>CraKinShOt: something about "GetTrainAcceleration" or so
15:11<CraKinShOt>well its a bit wierd. there is one check in TrainController function for a red signal
15:11<CraKinShOt>if you completely comment that out, in theory the trains should run red signals
15:11<CraKinShOt>but a) they stop and then carry on with normal signals
15:11<Dreamxtreme>when will it be ready the new features
15:12<Dreamxtreme>24hours time ?
15:12<CraKinShOt>and b) they stop completely at pbs signals
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>CraKinShOt: there's an additional "emergency stop" somewhere
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15:21<CraKinShOt>ahh... it considers a red signal as "end of line"
15:22<CraKinShOt>calls TrainApproachingLineEnd
15:22<CraKinShOt>which puts on the breaks
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15:25*CraKinShOt go go gadget rewrite
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>hm... cool... in GB, they only had a "1st" and "3rd" class after 1910 :p
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15:33<CraKinShOt>the horror
15:36<CraKinShOt>I'm thinking once you have deceleration you can put in a variable delay for the driver response. (difficulty option)
15:36<CraKinShOt>so random events where a train passes red by accident
15:36<CraKinShOt>then you can have annual SPAD report graphs... XD
15:36<CraKinShOt>(they have those in real life you know)
15:37*CraKinShOt is laughing
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>hm... news_gui.cpp:657:* @see NewsSubype <--- looks like typo
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15:40*Alberth also thinks it looks like a typo
15:41<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17623 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Codechange: don't update the station's joiner scrollbar count in the drawing code
15:47<Ammler>someone here ever saw something like that?
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>yes. 10 minutes ago in #opensuse-de :p
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15:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17624 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Swap entries in _resize_cap[][] so the code does what the docs say.
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16:08<Eddi|zuHause>gnah... the whole of headway_gui.cpp must also be updated to the left/right thingie...
16:09<@Rubidium>oh, that'll keep you busy :)
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>and wtf is "SetVScrollCount"?
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't even seem to get a scrollbar as parameter...
16:11<@Rubidium>the amount of 'elements' in the vertical scroll bar
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16:12<Alberth>scrollbar data is part of the Window struct
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>that does not sound like the most extensible idea :p
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16:14<@Rubidium>that's why there (was) a SetVScroll2Count
16:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17625 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make a nested window of the station joiner
16:16<Alberth>and a hscrollbar :p
16:17<chupa>hi everybody. does anyone know a way to diable the local authority?
16:17<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: but I would not be surprised if this data layout existed from the original source.
16:19<@Rubidium>Alberth: the 2 vertical scroll bars didn't exist yet
16:19<@Rubidium>only one existed
16:19<@Rubidium>not sure about the horizontal one though
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>i do remember bjarni saying he had to add support for a secondary scroll bar for the autoreplace gui
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause>this->vscroll.SetCount(this->vehicles.Length()); <-- i figure this is the correct replacement
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16:27<Eddi|zuHause>most of these things are fairly easy to figure out, if you know to navigate the source
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>but it's very tedious
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16:31<Alberth>do a few more and you'll get good at them :)
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>i'm never ever going to get good in GUI work :p
16:32<@Rubidium>there're plenty of non-GUI bugs you can work on :)
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>"warning: suggest a space before ‘;’ or explicit braces around empty body in ‘for’ statement" <- what's the code style for this?
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16:48<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17626 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use Dimension structs instead of array of length 2 for storing horizontal/vertical information.
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17:01<@Belugas>time to go, bye bye
17:04<@SmatZ>good night, Belugas
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17:17<andythenorth>wonder if Crossover is a valid solution for mac Openttd users?
17:17<andythenorth>One way to find out...I'll try this weekend
17:19<Prof_Frink>Or ask the codeweavers employee.
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17:22<Ammler>openttd works nicely with wine
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>but linux wine != osx wine
17:26<CraKinShOt>don't like that TrainApproachingLineEnd() slows the train down
17:26<@Rubidium>cheese works nicely with wine too ;)
17:26*Prof_Frink directs the poking stick at orudge
17:27<CraKinShOt>seems better to move the train control directly into the TrainController()
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>CraKinShOt: as far as i understood you, TrainApproacchingLineEnd is just missing a check for force_proceed?
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17:29<CraKinShOt>hmm, well as a function its returning whether the train is approaching the end of the line
17:30<CraKinShOt>but rather than have the calling function then perform reversing/slow down, its done in this function
17:31<CraKinShOt>to alter the handling of how the train moves with signals, at least with the way it is at the moment, I'd have to edit 2 functions with exactly the same thing
17:31<CraKinShOt>rather than just one function TrainController()
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17:31<CraKinShOt>I'll check the dependencies on this function... maybe I'm missing something as to why its done this way
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>two possible explanations: a) "it has been like this from r1", b) "keep the emergency stop separate from the acceleration model"
17:33<CraKinShOt>probably from the first release
17:33<CraKinShOt>essentially, this *Should* be in the function that deals with how the train moves
17:34<CraKinShOt>for instance, in the train controller if you comment out the aspect that deals with red signals, it should simply ignore signals completely
17:35<CraKinShOt>but because this other function has a seperate check for signals as well, the train stops, then starts up again
17:35<CraKinShOt>better to remove this out and put in the emergency stop in the actual function that is supposed to deal with the case
17:37<CraKinShOt>should at least make alteration of the train deceleration much cleaner
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17:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, go ahead ;)
17:40<CraKinShOt>hmmm not actually that clear cut
17:41<CraKinShOt>the original signals (back facing) will block the track and its technically the end of the line
17:42<CraKinShOt>I know, change the signal test so that if its a back facing signal it'll think its the end of the line
17:42<CraKinShOt>but ignores red signals
17:42<CraKinShOt>then have the slowdown explicitly handled by the train controller
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17:46<CraKinShOt>hehe, comment 1 line and its done
17:46<CraKinShOt>well I got the trains to run red signals, thats a start. :D
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18:16<CIA-4>OpenTTD: yexo * r17627 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_info_docs.hpp: -Document [FS#3216]: The remaining functions in info.nut
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18:21<Eddi|zuHause>ahaa... this is way easier when i have the GUI open to look at ;)
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18:35<@Rubidium>01189998819991197253 ;)
18:36<Fire>how is OTTD multiplayer
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: old ;)
18:43<@Rubidium>ofcourse it is
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>it was discussed in this channel even
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>and the sad thing is, i always get one digit wrong :(
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18:45<Eddi|zuHause>because in the beginning it's 118 and later it's 119, i always think of an 8 instead of a 9
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18:47<+glx>hmm isn't that the phone number ?
18:48<Dreamxtreme>lol no
18:48<Dreamxtreme>its a old london code
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>glx: yes, it's a phone number ;)
18:51<+glx>ok my memory works :)
18:55<CraKinShOt>does the pathfinder try to find a path on every tile?
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18:56<Eddi|zuHause>no, on every junction
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19:07<CraKinShOt>don't think its practical to do deceleration. It needs the speed restrictions to be propagated through the signals.
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>yes, each signal must tell the previous signal its speed limit
19:08<CraKinShOt>when you get to a junction... ALL the signals leading to the junction would put on a speed limit
19:08<CraKinShOt>a simple way of doing it is in the pathfinder
19:09<CraKinShOt>it already looks up the paths
19:09<CraKinShOt>once you've found the best path you update the signals on it, at least for the first few signals
19:10<CraKinShOt>nothing to do with reservation, just signal reservation
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, i think you should reserve a path
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>so on a regular straight rail you'd reserve two signals ahead, to make sure the next block is free and can be passed with max speed
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>if reservation fails, slow down
19:12<CraKinShOt>yeah thats the ideal way
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>that's why i pointed you to michi_cc's patch, because it already does the ahead reservation
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>it misses the slowing down part
19:12<CraKinShOt>yeah, well the Long Reserve PBS does the same
19:13<CraKinShOt>it all comes down to which is getting in trunk. ;)
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>that patch is not going near trunk anytime soon
19:14<CraKinShOt>not much point in me reinventing the wheel and doing my own version
19:14<CraKinShOt>unless the exisint LR PBS was really badly done.
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>so... i have one big file left... timetable_gui.cpp
19:23<CraKinShOt>LR PBS seems clean
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19:24<CraKinShOt>I posted on that topic but no one replied.
19:25<CraKinShOt>essentially you'd only reserve the safe-breaking distance
19:25<Sacro>moving block?
19:25<Sacro>that'd be nice
19:26<CraKinShOt>Does the train cache the pathfinder results?
19:26<CraKinShOt>nodes, etc?
19:26<CraKinShOt>all I see here is it gives a direction
19:30<CraKinShOt>if its cached, can't see why you can't have Long Reserve PBS.
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>no, the train only gets the direction on exactly this tile
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19:33<CraKinShOt>Well I see you have a 'guess' result. in that case, you need to recompute the path
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19:34<CraKinShOt>but if you have a definiate path, then cache the nodes.
19:34<CraKinShOt>then when you pass into a new signal segment, try to reserve the next segment in the path
19:35<CraKinShOt>if that segment is locked, ditch the cache
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>well, that is exactly what the path reservation already does
19:36<CraKinShOt>ah right, a good way of doing it. hehe.
19:38<CraKinShOt>Wasn't the main grip with long reservations the fact it could block other trains from leaving in certain situations?
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see why that is a problem
19:45<CraKinShOt>No I don't either actually, its got a special signal that forbids long reservations
19:45<CraKinShOt>so that would be used for the station home. i.e. I train has to stop the signal first and try to reserve from that point
19:46<CraKinShOt>hmm bed time I think
19:46<CraKinShOt>I really dislike the little symbols on all these signal types
19:47<CraKinShOt>have you seen the restricted signals and programable signals in TTDPatch?
19:50<CraKinShOt>should just have an overlay or something, with is transparent unless you're editting signals
19:50<CraKinShOt>meh, personal taste.
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20:59<Eddi|zuHause>yaay, it compiles ;)
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>and crashes ;)
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>something seems dodgy with the settings...
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22:40<Lakie>Hmmm... updating OpenGFX whilst active caused an out of range exception (index -3) when attempting to open the Game Options window to change to the default and back to reload the graphics...
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 24 00:00:42 2009