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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-10-23

---Logopened Fri Oct 23 00:00:35 2009
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05:28<DaleStan>andythenorth (Pounce message): The next NFORenum nightly (r2251) should be more helpful (or at least more talkative), especially if you use escapes religiously.
05:29<MyCatVerbs>Oh cool, thank you Dale.
05:29<andythenorth>DaleStan: (you left me a message) thanks, I need a new NFOrenum anyway, the one I have doesn't understand escapes at all (it's pretty old)
05:30<MyCatVerbs>I'll make sure Andy has a newish one before I go tonight.
05:30<@Rubidium>next? current! :)
05:31<planetmaker>it's not hard to use the latest one.
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05:38<andythenorth>evening Pikka
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06:06<Pikka>hi andy
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06:13<Pikka> zomg red 8F
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08:49<andythenorth>hello Belugas
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08:50<@Belugas>howdi andy
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10:04<George>OTTD resources usage question.
10:04<George>What is it better - to heve more sprites or to have more assembled graphics?
10:05<George>For example
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>you're not going to run into the sprite limit, if that's what you're asking
10:06<George>If I have a house, that has a fly about it, than what is better?
10:06<George>1) to have 10 sprites of a house
10:07<George>2) to have 2 sprites (a house and a fly) and 10 pseudosprites to assemble them into one image
10:07<Muxy>fly tox will solve your problem
10:07<George>It is not a joke
10:07<George>I'm trying to improve ARVs NFO
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>George: i'm not an expert, but the 2) version sounds more sensible
10:08<George>And I need to know - what is better - to have more sprites or to ask devs to improve the code
10:09<George>I need to understand, how much profit would we get if vehicles would be assembled
10:09<George>Like houses and industry tiles
10:10<George>Rubidium: What do you think?
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>so you actually want a feature that is available for houses to be available for vehicles, too?
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>like, attaching red backlights to a wagon if it's the last wagon in the chain, instead of having separate graphics of a wagon with backlights?
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>again, i'm no expert, but that sounds sensible to me...
10:13<George>But how hard is it to implement it, how much CPU would it eat?
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>that, i can'T answer
10:14<George>glx: May be you can say something?
10:15<blathijs>Ah, in the multiple sprite case, you would only show one of them at the same time
10:15<blathijs>and in the fewer sprite case, you would show more of them at the same time
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10:24<George>that's correct, this is CPU usage instead of memory usage
10:24<George>But what is better?
10:25<blathijs>Doing composition on the fly sounds more flexible to me
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>if CPU usage is really an issue, a system to cache these combined sprites would be sensible, instead of forcing it on the grf artists
10:26<blathijs>Hmm, that's a smart thought :-)
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i tend to have those occasionally :pö
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13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: translators * r17847 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/basque.txt:
13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: basque - 7 changes by Thadah
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13:48<Luukland>Its the one-and-only
13:48<Luukland>* drums
13:48<Luukland>Luukland :D
13:49<Luukland>The one that has soo succesfull servers, he is going to add a 3rd
13:49<Alberth>you're going for the monopoly in online OpenTTD gaming?
13:50<Luukland>The big competitor is Ed's servers
13:50<Alberth>never mind those :p
13:50<Alberth>soon you'll make heaps of money as everyone has to come and play at your servers
13:51<Luukland>How come? Ppl still play at Ed's
13:51<Luukland>or Ex's whatever
13:51<frosch123>big plans for a 12 year old, luukland
13:51<Luukland>11 years
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13:52<frosch123>then you are missing a "!" or does "1" count as some?
13:53<Luukland>Ghe ghe
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14:01<violetblood>oh hi
14:01*violetblood waves
14:04<Sacro>ohai thar
14:04<Sacro>impressive that your nick is actually violet
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>not true, it's green
14:09<Luukland>I only see black
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14:16<Eddi|zuHause>so... this is a slightly more accurate schematic of my tracks:
14:16<violetblood>what game?
14:17<zachanima>not a game
14:18<Eddi|zuHause> (~2.5MB)
14:18<Eddi|zuHause> (~2.5MB)
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>slightly older "snapshots" ;)
14:19<zachanima>I should have quite a number of tracks and locos around somewhere
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14:20<Eddi|zuHause>i have a few more straights and curves, not sure how to incorporate them
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>it's about 2,90m x 2,20m
14:25<MyCatVerbs>Eddi|zuHause: y'know, at some point I started thinking of OpenTTD+cheap laptop as "Hornby for poor people". ;)
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>what's a Hornby?
14:26<StarLionIsaac>model railway brand
14:26<MyCatVerbs>Oh, Hornby's a particular brand of model railway.
14:26<MyCatVerbs>Good memories. ^_^
14:26<StarLionIsaac>I think I still have a small layout someplace here
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14:42<violetblood>can someone show me any good junctions in a curve?
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>depends on the definition of "goot", "junction" and "curve"
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15:40<Rhamphoryncus>So I've been pondering how more realistic signals might work, ie with distant signals and realistic stopping distances. It seems to me that each signal needs a way to explicitly specify which paths it has, to avoid the current path-signal magic
15:41<Rhamphoryncus>or maybe not.. hrm
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15:43<Rhamphoryncus>explicit paths might be more realistic, but aren't necessary for distant signals.. and we could probably generate distant signals on the fly, based on where the stopping points are
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15:45<Rhamphoryncus>It would mean trains would attempt to optimistically acquire the next leg of their journey, slowing if they can't
15:46<Noldo>realistic stoping distances can be done so that trains start to slow down when they approach the signal that ends their reservation
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15:46<Rhamphoryncus>Noldo: I *want* the distant signal. I don't want the magic
15:47<Noldo>what magic?
15:47<Rhamphoryncus>in reality, the stopping distance exceeds the visible distance of signals
15:47<Rhamphoryncus>So they *need* distant signals
15:48<Noldo>aren't there train simulators for those needs
15:48<Rhamphoryncus>Today we don't even need signals. It's all computerized
15:49<Rhamphoryncus>I don't want computer controls on my steam engines ;)
15:49<Noldo>aren't there train simulators for those needs
15:50<Rhamphoryncus>huh? Are you arguing that openttd doesn't care about realism?
15:50<Alberth>it is not a design goal, no
15:51<Rhamphoryncus>You misunderstand. Fun is more important than realism, but that doesn't mean realism isn't valuable too
15:52<Noldo>what would be the gameplay benefits of distant signals?
15:52<Rhamphoryncus>Just realism. What'd be the gameplay harm?
15:59<Noldo>well, you haven't really explained the consept so how would I know?
16:00<Rhamphoryncus>if you don't understand what I'm suggesting then why are you arguing?
16:01<Rhamphoryncus>Basically take realistic stopping distance, where it slows down in advance of the signal, then trace backwards X tiles and draw distant signals there
16:02<Noldo>so it's what I said with additional unneccessary graphics
16:02<Rhamphoryncus>The tracks themselves are unnecessary graphics. It could just draw a single line :P
16:03<Noldo>good idea
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16:03<Rhamphoryncus>and all those buildings in town.. and the animations!
16:04<Rhamphoryncus>Heck, trains could be replaced with a number. They don't need to slide either, just hop from tile to tile
16:04<@Belugas>and all of those buildings
16:04<@Belugas>were once just a dream
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16:38<Wolf01>hi :D
16:40<Markk>Hai guise
16:40<Wolf01>any new good new?
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16:41<Eddi|zuHause>things are either not new or not good
16:41<Wolf01>bah :P
16:42<Wolf01>I noticed about the merge of the graphics forums, nice move ;)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>for example petern left without finishing railtypes first
16:42<Wolf01>he left again?
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16:43<Wolf01>maybe he's only disguised, it might be everybody in this channel
16:44<Wolf01>I've a new toy :D
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>is it anywhere close to this? (~2.5MB)
16:45<Wolf01>multi touch graphic tablet
16:45<Eddi|zuHause> (~2.5MB)
16:47<Noldo>Wolf01: how much did it cost?
16:47<Wolf01>wacom bamboo fun
16:47<Sacro>zomg me too
16:47<Sacro>i bought mine today
16:48<Sacro>bamboo pen and touch
16:48<Wolf01>the little one or the big one?
16:48<Sacro>the black one
16:48<Sacro>only comes in one size
16:48<Wolf01>ah! I've the silver one :D
16:48<Sacro>Oooh nice
16:48<Sacro>I'm not sure what the difference is
16:49<Sacro>just the local apple reseller only had the black
16:49<Sacro>or the intuos
16:50<Wolf01>mine is bigger
16:51<Wolf01>black one: 208 x 138 x 7,5 mm;
16:51<Wolf01>big silver one: 337 x 223 x 8,5 mm
16:52<Wolf01>small silver one: 248 x 176 x 8,5 mm
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16:54<@Belugas>night all
16:54<Sacro>bah, didn't know that
16:54<Wolf01>night Belugas
16:54*Sacro is annoyed now
16:55<Wolf01>do you have the "undress the girl" game in bundle?
16:55<Sacro>PORN TOO?
16:56<Wolf01>multi touch pr0n!
16:57<Sacro>oh hang on, is that on the driver cd?
16:58<frosch123>only with the silver one
16:58<Wolf01>no, it's a premium download
16:58<Wolf01>do you know... the second serial on the booklet
17:00*Sacro wants multi touch porn
17:00<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Why? You can only use it one-handed
17:00<Markk>How would that work?
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17:00<Markk>Prof_Frink: you have 5 fingers you know
17:00<Prof_Frink>Markk: He normally finishes after one touch?
17:00<Markk>"Maxtor one touch"
17:01<Sacro>Prof_Frink: true
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17:10<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17848 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: allow overriding (some) settings of STACKED_SELECTION_ZERO_SIZE widgets via UpdateWidgetSize
17:10<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17849 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the saveload windows nested
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17:16<Sacro>note to self, jokerman is not a coding font
17:17<TrueBrain>note to self, stop making notes to self in public channels :p
17:18<frosch123>what is public about this channel?
17:18<welshdragon>note to self, TrueBrain is annoying :D
17:18<TrueBrain>I guess the fact it has no +k? :)
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17:21<Sacro>no +k?
17:21<Sacro>no +k?
17:21<frosch123>yeah, and not enough +b
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17:22<frosch123>it is raining in uk, right?
17:23<welshdragon>not where i am
17:23<Prof_Frink>Not in the land of tractors
17:23<frosch123>but in south west uk
17:23<welshdragon>Not in the land of Sheep (F*********s)
17:23<Sacro>frosch123: the UK is huge
17:24<Prof_Frink>frosch123: Dorset (Ooo arr) is SW.
17:24<welshdragon>Sacro: YOU MISSED MY WELSH RACISM :(
17:24<frosch123>is that Quite Near The Spiritual Home of TTD ?
17:24<Sacro>welshdragon: it's not racist
17:24<Prof_Frink>Although, I am at the eastern end of the county
17:24<Sacro>welsh isn't a race
17:24<welshdragon>Sacro: we are a race
17:24<Prof_Frink>Sacro: yes it is. 100m paralympic hurdles.
17:25<Sacro>welshdragon: only if there's a sheep tied to a lampost
17:25<welshdragon>there was a dog tied to a lamppost about 2 hours ago
17:26<Sacro>or the cheese on toast is burning
17:26<welshdragon>CAWS AR DOST!
17:27*welshdragon hears a baa)
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17:27<Prof_Frink>TRYFAN FACH.
17:29<TrueBrain>frosch123: okay, this channel indeed should not be public ;)
17:29<TrueBrain>it is bad for children
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17:30<andythenorth>frosch123: yes it's bloody raining :|
17:31<andythenorth>definitely raining near here
17:31<andythenorth>I will go to bed and stop inflicting my flaky connection on you
17:31<andythenorth>I should get cable
17:31<andythenorth>or a bouncer
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17:56<planetmaker>:-D @ frosch @ FS 3280
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17:59<frosch123>the only thing i produced this evening :p
17:59<planetmaker>good enough for my liking ;-) And basically what I tried to tell him
17:59<planetmaker>and there's really nowhere a definition of which hp is used.
17:59<frosch123>well, and wondering how to not emerge kdepimlibs
18:00<frosch123>what does the original german ttd use?
18:00<frosch123>(i.e. german ttdp)
18:00<planetmaker>no idea :-)
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19:56<Xaroth>I wonder what the limits are on income a year...
19:56<Xaroth>already up to a billion.. probably reaching around bil and a half soonish
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20:05<Tefad>limits? hahaha
20:05<Xaroth>There are always limits
20:05<Sacro>64 bit limit
20:05<Sacro>seeing as we managed to break past uint32 XD
20:05<Xaroth>time to see if we can reach that :P
20:05<Sacro>we managed to break past 4.2 billion a year
20:05<Xaroth>15 oct, 1.3 bil effective income this year.
20:05<Xaroth>4 stations :)
20:06<Xaroth>did cheat a tiny bit tho :P
20:06<Xaroth>2048*2048 map with a ton of coal up north, and a powerstation down south :P
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20:19<Xaroth>anyways, back to od...
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20:38<AC6000>hey chrill, long time no speak :P
20:38<Chrill>Indeed.. who are you? :p
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22:59<kieran491>Does any one know of a good Ausrtralia Map including citys and industry?
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23:15<Pikka>can't say I do, kieran491
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 24 00:00:40 2009