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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-11-01

---Logopened Sun Nov 01 00:00:21 2009
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03:48<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17930 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r17926): Aircraft were not carrying mail anymore, when CB15 was in use.
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04:31<Terkhen>good morning
04:31<frosch123>hello terkhen
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05:15<planetmaker>frosch123: I don't quite follow what you changed wrt the plane refits in the last days. What did actually change from a player's POV?
05:15<planetmaker>and good morning everyone :-)
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05:33<SmatZ>Chris Huebsch is such a moron
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05:43<yorick>@commit 2412
05:43<@DorpsGek>yorick: Commit by hackykid :: r2412 /trunk (4 files) (2005-06-05 20:45:04 UTC)
05:43<@DorpsGek>yorick: - Fix: [ 1214948 ] building vehicles without depot crashes game. (Chris Huebsch)
05:43<yorick>that one?
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05:54<planetmaker>uh @ SmatZ?
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06:02<frosch123>planetmaker: planes refitted to passengers also transport mail. in ttdp this is bound to cargoslot 0. in ottd it is bound to the cargoclass. i.e. planes refitted to tourists carry mail in ottd, but do not in ttdp. previous to my changes that behaviour was slightly inconsistent in ottd, as lots of places used the old cargoslot 0 rule
06:04<@Rubidium>planetmaker: regarding your modified string, where you did _YAPF you ought to do _NTP too
06:04<frosch123>the inconsistency affected the gui sometimes not showing the mail. but also aircraft which would be e.g. only able to carry tourists would not have carried mail as the cargoclass rule was only used when refitting, not when building.
06:05<@Rubidium>SmatZ: oh the "I reported this bug before with a modified version, then it got fixed, then in the fixed version I've got exactly the same bug"
06:05<planetmaker>Thanks @ all three of you :-)
06:06<planetmaker>though the description might have suffered from bad translation back into English
06:07<@Rubidium>and then he starts flaming us saying he has "20 years experience hunting/fixing bugs", yet he can't figure out that they are distinct bugs, especially because the error message is different
06:07<_ln>why not ban morons from the flyspray
06:07<planetmaker>hm, I wonder how the English strings crept into the German translation...
06:08<Alberth>_ln: how to enforce that?
06:08<@Rubidium>that's simple: click copy string in WT2, then go to the next page
06:08<planetmaker>Rubidium: sure, but... :-)
06:09<Alberth>_ln: ie the same kind of problems of banning bad players from a server
06:10<_ln>Alberth: it's easy as long as we assume the moron doesn't re-register with a new account.
06:12<Alberth>_ln: Sure, bad people always play by our rules, why would we consider them bad :p
06:12<Alberth>s/, /, that's /
06:20<_ln>a moron is not necessarily a bad person.
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07:59<Splex>is it possible to play 0.7.3 servers with svn?
08:00<yorick>unless you use the 0.7 branch/tag
08:00<Alberth>all programs must use exactly the same version, so no, unless you want to check out exactly the 0.7.3 revision
08:00<Splex>ok, i want to have the opensfx on 0.7.3 version
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08:01<yorick>Alberth: the 0.7 branches are relatively compatible
08:02<Alberth>ok, just being safe :)
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09:29<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17931 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Error message window uses pure nested widgets.
09:29<PeterT>Alberth, is that based on "Odd Message" in the forums?
09:29<Alberth>what Odd Message are you talking about?
09:29<Alberth>(probably not)
09:30<Alberth>oh, those.
09:30<PeterT>was it?
09:30<Alberth>yes, it is, as are the past 200 or so commits I did, and so will the future 100-200 or so I will do
09:31<Alberth>basically, the mesg indicates a mismatch between the 'old' widgets, and my 'new' nested widgets.
09:32<Alberth>slowly, the old ones are disappearing, and thus also the message :)
09:37<PeterT>what does T.E stand for?
09:37<+glx>tractive effort
09:37<PeterT>oh, I can't translate that
09:37<PeterT>can I leave that part blank?
09:39<frosch123>"erőfeszítésre vontató" :p
09:42<PeterT>I don't like online translators
09:42<Alberth>nobody forces you to use them
09:42<frosch123>how wrong was it?
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: i'm sure there are railway dictionaries for your language
09:43<PeterT>I don't know, I don't know how to say Tractive Effort in hungarian
09:43<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause, if only I had access to one
09:44<PeterT>frosch123> how wrong was it? <--- sounds somewhat like it
09:46<PeterT>if you shorten Tractive Effort in English to T.E., should I also shorten efofeszitesre vontato to E.V.?
09:46<frosch123>PeterT: does the finnish translation help you?
09:48<frosch123>STR_PURCHASE_INFO_MAX_TE :{BLACK}Maximális vonóerő: {GOLD}{FORCE} <- btw. it was already translated in some other place
09:50<PeterT>ok, finished
09:59<PeterT>do an update from webtranlators
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10:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, of course they do that on command!
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10:06*frosch123 commands the update to take place on 2145 utc
10:06<frosch123>hmm, no 1745 utc
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>shouldn't it be more like 1945 CE(S)T?
10:08<frosch123>i thought so, but it did not time shifting
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>which makes it 1845 UTC currently?
10:08<yorick>CEST isn't CET currently
10:08<frosch123>it never is, is it?
10:09<frosch123>even 2a != 2b
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>apples are not pears currently
10:09<yorick>frosch123: unless a == b
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10:10<Eddi|zuHause>yorick: no, a === b, which is never the case
10:10<yorick>why not
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>because === is semantical equivalence of two terms
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>meaning "for all possible values of a and b: a == b"
10:11<frosch123>can't you use a proper symbol for that?
10:11*yorick agrees
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>it's the symbol Mathematica uses ;)
10:12<frosch123>but it replaces it with something more graphical, doesn't it?
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>i do not have any mathematica installed ;)
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10:25<Alberth>≡ of course :)
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11:07<Splex>is there a way to convert normal signals to path signals via modifier key?
11:07<Splex>like using ctrl key for pre/normal-signals
11:08<frosch123>in the signal gui there is a convert signal button
11:08<frosch123>while it is pressed no new signals are build, but only existing are replaced
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11:10<frosch123>but it cannot be dragged, and well, converting two-way signals to path signals is also not useful :)
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11:16<Splex>I tend to like to just select basic signal and then convert it to whatever i want by using modifier key, is there any way to do this for a path signal?
11:16<Splex>kinda annoying to always have to choose the signal on the gui
11:17<Splex>and to switch between one way and 2 way path signal
11:17<Splex>annoying to have to remove the two way path signal in order to replace with one way path signal
11:18<frosch123>yes, you can also build the signal and then cycle signal types by ctrl-clicking on it
11:18<Splex>right, for presignals/basic
11:18<frosch123>in advanced settings you can control whether to cycle though all signal types, or only normal, or only path
11:18<Splex>but it doesn't cycle through the path
11:18<Splex>didn't see that option
11:19<frosch123>np :)
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11:36<andythenorth>evening / morning etc
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11:38<andythenorth>Pikka: irwe is asking about 'zoning' town buildings for Swedish Houses. I have never done it, but I figure you might have for TAI? Looks like house var 65 and/or 66, with cb 17...?
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11:40<andythenorth>cb 17 is house construction check
11:40<Pikka>yeah, that's right
11:40<andythenorth>var 65 is distance to nearest house matching a criteria
11:41<Pikka>yeah, I use that for the skyscrapers in TaI, for everything else I just use a maximum number allowed in the town
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11:41<Pikka>I originally planned to do industrial/residential zoning by town x/y, but it didn't work out too well
11:43<Pikka>so yeah, aside from the standard TTD zoning, all I do is make it so that skyscrapers can only be built within 2 tiles from existing ones.
11:44<andythenorth>Hmm....I wonder if using var 65 is computationally expensive, and prone to getting in a spin...
11:44<andythenorth>I'm not planning to code this, just helping Irwe...
11:45<Pikka>"AS any search variable, be aware that it is a CPU intensive one" says the wiki
11:45<Pikka>but if it's within cb 17, I wouldn't worry about the expense. if you're using it to pick graphics, on the other hand...
11:46<andythenorth>I guess it would only be when a town tries to build a new building.
11:46<andythenorth>I've never coded houses, I don't know if it's possible to code a loop that is hard for the game to terminate (it is with industry construction).
11:47<Pikka>var 65 isn't going to get into a loop
11:48<Pikka>but if you use a big search radius and it doesn't find anything, it may take a while :)
11:49<andythenorth>The 'build industry but only if conditions x, y, z are met' is why ECS by George is slow when the game initiates a map, right?
11:49<Pikka>the maximum radius of 63 is going to check 16383 tiles...
11:49<andythenorth>Or is it something else? This will affect how FIRS tries to control industry placement...
11:50<Pikka>I only check a radius of 2, 24 tiles, in TaI, and haven't noticed any slowdowns ;)
11:50<Pikka>well, if it's searching for something and doesn't find it quickly, yeah, that'll slow it down.
11:50<andythenorth>ok thanks
11:51<Pikka>I don't know what code george uses in ECS
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11:56<frosch123>radius of 2 means 12 tiles, doesn't it?
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12:00<Pikka>radius of 2 is 5x5 tiles, minus the one in the middle, afaia. how would you get 12?
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>depends on if you want to check the circle (=border), or all tiles (=area)
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12:03<frosch123>it uses manhattan distance, not maximum distance
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>but even then it would be 16 tiles
12:03<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: in the center is a tile, not a corner
12:04<Pikka>oh, I see what you mean, it only checks tiles out to that manhattan distance
12:04<Pikka>fair enough
12:04<Pikka>12 is right then
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: sorry, the 16 tiles were not meant as a reply to you
12:05<Pikka>so I guess there'll only be 8192 or so in the maximum search, too
12:05<Pikka>bedtime por moi
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12:06<frosch123>hmm, Chebyshev distance, i thought there was a different name
12:07<Rhamphoryncus>do multicar trams load faster if I give them a double station?
12:11<Rhamphoryncus>They don't queue particularly well either
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12:11<frosch123>build them parallel :)
12:12<Rhamphoryncus>yeah I guess that's the only way
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>multistop needs some overhaul... but pherhaps that should wait for newgrf airports?
12:14<Rhamphoryncus>ah, doing that and doubling the length does let them get off the main street from both directions
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12:20<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17932 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: Don't let the tooltip go under the status bar.
12:24<Rhamphoryncus>Eddi|zuHause: what does that have to do with airports?
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: the intention with newgrf airports is to extend the structure to handle seaports and road stations as well
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: to have bigger and more complex stations
12:25<frosch123>though that won't make it easier :p
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12:34<Rhamphoryncus>I'm currently experimenting with cargodist. Really changes the game
12:35<Rhamphoryncus>Previously I'd only put stations in a town to boost ratings, to counter my demolition of the forests
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12:38<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17933 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move position calculation of error message window into the class.
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12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17934 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by josesun
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: greek - 125 changes by fumantsu
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by Petert
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: spanish - 3 changes by Terkhen
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17935 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17933): Compensate for being inside a class.
12:45<PeterT>there I am! :)
12:46<Alberth>except you guessed 12 minutes early :)
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12:47<PeterT>wow, fumantsu is really working
12:49<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17936 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Fix: deadlock when trying to create screenshot with too long name (including path)
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12:58*Eddi|zuHause prepares bad joke for Alberth having something to compensate :p
13:00*Alberth makes some tea in the mean time
13:00<Zuu>Tea sounds like a good idea
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13:08*Alberth pours Zuu some tea
13:08*Zuu puts forward his cup
13:09<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17937 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp screenshot.cpp screenshot.h): -Codechange: rename current_screenshot_type to _screenshot_type
13:09*Alberth fills the cup of Zuu too
13:10*Zuu tastes the tea
13:11<Zuu>Tastes good
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13:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17938 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp screenshot.cpp screenshot.h toolbar_gui.cpp): -Feature: non-automatic screenshot name can be entered in console
13:17<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17939 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Fix (r17938): debug code sneaked in
13:23<Zuu>Oh, 3 more posts and I'm at post 2222 :-)
13:25<Alberth>1000.1010.1110 doesn't seem such a nice number to me :p
13:26<Zuu>Hehe :-)
13:26*frosch123 is around line 7480 in this channel
13:27<Alberth>0001.1101.0011.1000 almost symmetrical
13:28<Zuu>frosch123: Just today or in total?
13:28<frosch123>@base 10 2 7480
13:28<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 1110100111000
13:28<frosch123>Zuu: in total
13:29<frosch123>and i am happy that i have the double amount in a certain less-off-topic channel :)
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13:29<Alberth>your client does the counting?
13:29<frosch123>Zuu: you have 1329 in my logs
13:29<frosch123>no, grep -c
13:29<Zuu>My log file says 51970 lines. But then it includes the join/exit events.
13:30<frosch123>but they are not all by you :)
13:31<Alberth>Zuu is more of a forum writer than a channel writer :)
13:31<Zuu>No, not all by me.
13:32<Zuu>Hanged out a lot just on the forums before I started to visit IRC.
13:32<Zuu>And then, at least 500 of my forum posts I would guess could be connected to Transport Empire.
13:33<frosch123>do they count negative?
13:33<Zuu>I don't know, but they shouldn't count as OpenTTD posts :-)
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>hm. my grep -c says i have 41569 lines
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>since 23. Jul 2007
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>which appears to be the move to oftc
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>hm, no
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>that was on 12. Aug 2006
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>and there are another 13048 lines in that period
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>and another 1323 on freenode, since my move to linux
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>now where could my mirc logs be?
13:48<PeterT>SmatZ: what does r17938 mean?
13:48<PeterT>what kind of feature?
13:57<MyCatVerbs>PeterT: r17938 looks like a Subversion revision number to me.
13:57<PeterT>I know, but I don't understand the feature
13:57<MyCatVerbs>Ah, just checking.
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14:01<Zuu>PeterT: Have you checked the commit message of r17938?
14:02<Zuu>@revision r17938
14:02<Zuu>Or how it was...
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14:02<frosch123>@commit 17938
14:02<@DorpsGek>frosch123: Commit by smatz :: r17938 /trunk/src (4 files) (2009-11-01 18:15:35 UTC)
14:02<@DorpsGek>frosch123: -Feature: non-automatic screenshot name can be entered in console
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14:03<PeterT>yes, I looked at it
14:04<Zuu>It might do "Screenshots of whole map are always drawn without console" among a few other things.
14:04<Zuu>Reading from
14:05<frosch123>your guesses should include "screenshot name"
14:05<frosch123>it is the subject in a sentence using passive form
14:05<Zuu>Usage changes from "Usage: 'screenshot [big | no_con]'" to "Usage: 'screenshot [big | no_con] [file name]'"
14:06<Zuu>So indeed it adds the ability to specify file names to the screenshot command in the console.
14:06<Zuu>file name*
14:11<Alberth>hmm, how to remove all files not under hg version control?
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14:12<frosch123>hg st | grep '^?' | sed 's/1?/rm/' > + verify + execute
14:16<Alberth>I did hg st -u | cut -b2- | xargs rm but I'd expect hg to be able to do this
14:18<frosch123>you can make addremove and then branch from old version :p
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: " purge removes files not tracked by mercurial "
14:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17940 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use real y position of the main toolbar and status bar instead of hardcoded sizes for tooltip and for error message windows.
14:19<frosch123>not present in 1.3.1
14:20<Alberth>doc says you must enable it first:
14:21<Alberth>I just *knew* it was possible, but hg has too many extensions
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14:21<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know... i just installed it from my os' repository
14:23<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: if enabled, it is listed under 'enabled extensions:' with 'hg help'
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>"hg help" only shows "list of commands:"
14:24<Alberth>@base 10 2 17940
14:24<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 100011000010100
14:24<Alberth>nah, non-pretty number
14:25<frosch123>@base 10 3 17940
14:25<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 220121110
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>@base 13 25 17940
14:25<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 2MKD
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14:30<TrueBrain>you guys are WEIRD
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14:31<frosch123>@base 36 2 WEIRD
14:31<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 11001111100111011001111001
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14:32<SpComb>@base 10 2 2
14:32<@DorpsGek>SpComb: 10
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14:41<Zuu>@base 26 2 WEIRD
14:41<@DorpsGek>Zuu: Error: Invalid <number> for base 26: WEIRD
14:42<_ln>@base 36 2 WEIRD
14:42<@DorpsGek>_ln: 11001111100111011001111001
14:42<PeterT>@base 1 1
14:42<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Error: '1' is not a valid base.
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>go play with the bot in private!
14:42<PeterT>what are you guys doing?
14:42*_ln was merely correcting Zuu's line
14:43<Zuu>@base 36 2 PRIVATE
14:43<@DorpsGek>Zuu: 110100001110110110110111011010000010
14:44<TrueBrain>lets start banning people for abuse
14:44<TrueBrain>YEAH! LETS DO THAT! :)
14:45<Zuu>Someone seams to be on ban mood :-)
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15:40<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17941 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp screenshot.cpp): -Fix: close BMP file when making screenshot fails
15:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17942 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Documentation: Add a few doxygen comments to the dropdown code.
15:54<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17943 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Change: use 24bpp BMP format instead of 32bpp for screenshots. Saves space and is supported by more image viewers
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16:06<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17944 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Codechange (r11848): Removed the second counter variable that ran in sync with the first one.
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17:45<Terkhen>good night
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17:58<_ln>hmm, how do i read the list of processes from /proc?
18:09<SmatZ>cat /proc/*/cmdline ?
18:11<_ln>i'm wondering about the * part. i guess i'll just read the /proc directory and check if a subdirectory begins with a number and has e.g. cmdline inside.
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18:12<_ln>C program, not shell
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18:34<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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19:07<Fast2>_ln: system() ;)
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 02 00:00:30 2009