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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-11-21

---Logopened Sat Nov 21 00:00:38 2009
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02:22<George>When I change the GRF paramerter via GRF itself, should the save store the value, devined by config, or by GRF?
02:23<George>// drop parameter to 0 if difficulty level is hard
02:23<George> 22 * 9 07 A2 04 \7! 02 00 00 00 01
02:23<George> 23 * 9 0D 00 \D= FF FF 00 00 00 00
02:23<George>I start a game with parameter 15 on hard settings, save the game, load it, and get the value of 15
02:24<George>While the code should (if I'm not mistaken) drop it to 0
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02:29<Eddi|zuHause>is it 0 before the save?
02:30<Eddi|zuHause>and who ever plays with the default difficulty settings?
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05:11<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r18203 /trunk/src/widget_type.h: -Codechange (r18092): Remove DisplayFlags enum of old widgets.
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05:36<alligator>why can't i see new trains ? it said a new electric train is avable
05:37<Rubidium>because an electric train requires electrification
05:37<Rubidium>i.e. click on the rail button on the main toolbar, keep it press, and select 'electrified railway'
05:38<Rubidium>then build a depot and build the electric train
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05:39<Alberth>don't forget to electrify the tracks as well
05:41<alligator>aha thanks ! :)
05:43<Alberth>the 'convert tracks' button is very handy for that :)
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07:43<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18204 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: introduce a type for Ticks and use it; furthermore document some related variables/functions
07:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18205 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Codechange: unduplicate some code
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08:22<Fast2>I have a problem: I can't close the map window because the close-button is behind the upper bar and the resize buttón behind the lower...
08:23<Brianetta>Fast2: Press backspace
08:23<Brianetta>or possibly delete
08:23<Fast2>Ah, thanks :)
08:23*roboboy pokes his head in
08:23<Brianetta>Some windows have a pin button
08:24<Brianetta>that stops that key closing them
08:24<Brianetta>using shift as well, will close all pinned windows too
08:24<roboboy>can I run openttd without any original TTD files?
08:24<Brianetta>roboboy: Not yet
08:24<Brianetta>well, you probably could if you didn't mind a silent experience
08:24<roboboy>so I still need
08:24<roboboy>ok so it isnt required
08:24<Brianetta>The file needs to exist
08:25<Brianetta>but it can be 0 bytes long
08:25<roboboy>ive never goten it to work reliably using the DOS original files so I may try just a blank
08:25<Alberth>Fast2: there was no piece of the title bar visible any more?
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08:26<Fast2>Brianetta: Ah, I wondered for what this button was made.
08:26<Fast2>Alberth: No
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08:27<Alberth>Fast2: Oh you are playing a 0.7.x version? I thought I fixed that, but maybe only in trunk.
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause>gnah... i hate TGP...
10:29<Rubidium>then don't use it!
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>in maps like this, you always need diagonal stations, tunnels, bridges, etc...
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10:38<Eddi|zuHause>and i need tram stations under bridges...
10:39<George>Does <Sprite-number> * <Length> 0D <target> <operation> <variable> FE FF FF 00 00 vorks in OTTD?
10:39<George>13 map size information Bit switch Format = -MABXYSS (since r11961 and r1817)
10:40<George>It is always 4, 34, 34, 1 for me
10:40<George>On any map size I test
10:40<George>29 * 9 0D 0A \D= 13 FE FF FF 00 00
10:40<George>I use to access
10:44<George>frosch123: Could you have look at it?
10:47<George>do I understand it right, that it means 256x256 map?
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11:02<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18206 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#3322]: on could 'pan' on the viewports of other windows, like the industry view, too
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>@base 10 16 34
11:03<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 22
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, appears like 256x256
11:05<George>Eddi|zuHause: Every map? Its' a bug? Should I report it at &
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like it is...
11:07<Rubidium>I see no reason why the code would be wrong
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11:07<Rubidium>(the code in OpenTTD)
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>your list is backwards, though. 1 == squared map, 0x22 (=34) means smaller edge=2/larger edge=2, 0x22 (=34) means map_x=2/map_y=2, 4 means map_x+map_y=4
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>the map_* must be +6
11:09<George>Do I need to provide a grf for tests?
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>yes, if possible, always do provide a test grf
11:10*Eddi|zuHause sees a light bulb over Rubidium's head
11:10<Rubidium>the map is initialised *after* the NewGRFs are loaded
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a funny bug to resolve ;)
11:12*Rubidium blames whoever tested Belugas' feature
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni is always a good candidate for blame
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>or in lack thereof, Sacro ;)
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11:18<Rubidium> <- no idea whether that'll properly work, but on the 'bright' side when loading a savegame the NewGRFs aren't known at InitializeGame either
11:18<Rubidium>hmm, guess not
11:20<frosch123>so, George, does it work when loading a savegame?
11:20<Rubidium>new diff with a better chance of working
11:23<frosch123>Rubidium: does loading savegames still work then?
11:23<Rubidium>frosch123: what changes for loading savegames with that code?
11:23<frosch123>- SetObjectToPlace(SPR_CURSOR_ZZZ, PAL_NONE, HT_NONE, WC_MAIN_WINDOW, 0); <- that one is removed
11:24<Rubidium>besides not showing the Zzz between the redraw after starting before finishing loading the savegame
11:24<Rubidium>2, 32, 2, 0
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11:31<George>frosch123: No. It is always 4,34,34,1
11:31<George>I mean in r18200
11:32<frosch123>Rubidium: i cannot find anything in Initialise that depends on newgrfs, so should be fine :)
11:32<George>Can't save about your diff, because I do not compile exe
11:32<George>But if you would provide win32 executable, I can test ti
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11:36<TrueBrain>where is that virus with a .exe executable ..... :p
11:37<Rubidium>for what it's worth: if you save the game and load it the numbers are okay
11:39<George>Rubidium: - yes, I made a wrong test. After save-load values are correct
11:39<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18207 /trunk/src/ (genworld.cpp misc.cpp): -Fix [FS#3324] (r11961): [NewGRF] When starting a new game the values of action D variable 13 were incorrect
11:42<George>Rubidium: thank you
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12:22<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18208 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3321]: in some cases the size of the land information window wasn't properly calculated
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12:42<planetmaker>@base 16 10 B51
12:42<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 2897
12:42<fonsinchen>For diagonal levelling and drawing I need to find out about the current "action" in order to decide if the tile selection should be updated orthogonally or diagonally ...
12:43<fonsinchen>The optimal solution would probably be checking _place_proc, but the procs are all static and correctly so
12:44<fonsinchen>Would it be hackish to check the cursor icon instead?
12:44<fonsinchen>Like _cursor.sprite == SPR_CURSOR_LEVEL_LAND means user is levelling land.
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12:47<fonsinchen>The previous method is checking _thd.select_proc, but that's ambigous as each of the select procs are used by multiple tools.
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13:05<frosch123>aren't there already some flags to restrict selection to 1x1, 1xn / nx1, nxm ?
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i'd say it needs passing as a parameter
13:05<frosch123>(e.g. autorail, non-autorail, autoroad, canal)
13:07<fonsinchen>You mean those HT_RECT, HT_POINT and so on?
13:08<fonsinchen>Dragging always uses HT_SPECIAL ...
13:08<fonsinchen>along with some other actions.
13:09<fonsinchen>HT_RECT is only for placing things. Also those are highlight types. The same highlight could be used for several actions
13:09<fonsinchen>some of which don't support diagonal dragging.
13:11<fonsinchen>I've put the DraggingDiagonal method into terraform_gui.cpp now. Like this I can actually compare _place_proc with the various PlaceProc_* there.
13:12<fonsinchen>It's like querying the terraform window "does your action support diagonal dragging right now?"
13:12<fonsinchen>Also not very nice, but better than before.
13:18<George>Wiki sais: Action 0 for industries. Probability in random game (17), Probability during gameplay (18)
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13:19<George>Do OTTD take map size into account when new indusry appear?
13:20<George>I mean, should GRF increase Prop 18 for larger maps, or do OTTD does it itself?
13:21<Rubidium>yes, no (unless you want relatively even more industry in larger maps)
13:23<George>Rubidium: so, if I want the same probability per tile, I should not change the value, OTTD will increase the probability as much as more tiles are represented on the map?
13:23<frosch123>isn't that only a relative probability?
13:24<George>So, on 512x512 map ther would be generated 4 more time industries, than on 256x256 map?
13:25<Rubidium>yes-ish, though in reality actually a bit more because with a bigger map there is a bigger chance to find a spot for the industries
13:25<frosch123>iirc. on 256x256 maps ottd tries to build one industry per month, on 512x512 4 per month. property 18 only affects which industry is tried
13:25<frosch123>the location restrictions are then the most important factor how many industries actually appear
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13:27<frosch123>in other words, george, if you double property 18 of all industries, nothing changes
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>IMHO, larger maps should get relatively _less_ industries (i.e. on average larger distances
13:29<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: use a NewGRF that limits industries to 1 per map :)
13:29<George>frosch123> on 256x256 maps ottd tries to build one industry per month, on 512x512 4 per month - this is the answer
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, something like that... especially with more industry types (ECS Vectors, FIRS), there are way too many industries on a large map
13:30<Rubidium>there're always too many or too little <whatever>
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but even on "very low" industries, people complain that there are way too many
13:31<frosch123>George: actually it tries building a industry only with a chance of 3%
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: so 3% per month that an industry is built, and then prop 18 to decide which industry?
13:33<frosch123>on 256x256 ottd does once a month something with a random industry. 3% for trying to create a random industry, 97% for doing a random production change (the non-monthly-but-more-randomcb)
13:33<frosch123>on 512x512 maps the "once a month" changes to "once every 8 days or so"
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13:34<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: yes
13:34<asilv>does it try severeal times if it doesn't find suitable location first time?
13:34<frosch123>several hundred times
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13:34<frosch123> /* try to create 2000 times this industry */
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13:38<Eddi|zuHause>is there a short introduction to hg queues somewhere?
13:38<frosch123>in the semi-official hg book
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>do i have that installed somewhere?
13:39<frosch123>yup, that one
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>> ls /usr/share/doc/packages/mercurial/
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>CONTRIBUTORS COPYING README sample.hgrc
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>there obviously not...
13:40<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: then it would be official, wouldn't it?
13:43<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: ?
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>gnah... cutting and converting tv recordings is so tedious, i should just delete it and download the crap
13:44<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: do you ever watch them?
13:44<frosch123>or do you sell them :p
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>yes, no
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18209 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 7 changes by josesun
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by Roujin
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: greek - 37 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by prof
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
13:53<Alberth> seems better
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14:04<TAW_T-Bone>anybody around willing to help me out
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14:06<Alberth>just ask a question, if somebody knows the answer, he/she will give it
14:07<TAW_T-Bone>ok i got vista 64 how can i install a full version of TTD
14:07<Alberth>OpenTTD I hope :)
14:08<TAW_T-Bone>well i still have a bought version from '95 here
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you'll be able to play that
14:08<TAW_T-Bone>but vista doesn't recognize it
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>but you need to use that to get the data files (trg*.grf and
14:09<TAW_T-Bone>so how do i then play ottd
14:09<Alberth>download a stable OpenTTD version, and install together with the TTD files
14:09<TAW_T-Bone>lol - i have been searching the wiki and found nothing
14:10<Alberth>wiki is full of nice surprises :)
14:13<TAW_T-Bone>nice thx
14:14<TAW_T-Bone>thanks i will again
14:14<TAW_T-Bone>as ever
14:16<TAW_T-Bone>ohh can i use the opengfx pack in my version
14:16<TAW_T-Bone>and will this better the gfx's
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and imho no.
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>you can get opengfx via the ingame content downloader
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>and switch between them in the settings dialog
14:23<TAW_T-Bone>ok thanks
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15:41<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:42<Fast2>Hello Nite_Owl
15:42<Nite_Owl>Hello Fast2
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16:33<planetmaker>Hm... I don't quite understand the wiki: which stringIDs can I actually use in order to define names for houses?
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>i thought it was the 0Dxx ones
16:35*petern grumbles at bluetooth
16:36<planetmaker>hm... might give that a try. stringIDs are a pain...
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>why don't you check an existing house grf, hoo they do ii?
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16:44<asilv>DCxx are what I have used
16:44<asilv>for example:
16:44<asilv> 2 * 14 04 48 FF 01 01 DC "Cottage" 00
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16:52<planetmaker>Thanks. I'll check it out :-)
16:52<asilv> <--more human readable version
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16:59<planetmaker>hm... you used "feature" 48 instead of 07?
17:01<asilv>i guess 07 would be more correct as the strings are only used for houses
17:01<asilv>both seem to work
17:01<planetmaker>I seem to have exactly that. Neither 07 nor 48 does work for me...
17:03<planetmaker>he... using FF instead of 7F does the trick
17:03<frosch123>planetmaker: i guess you have to either use d9xx texts, or dcxx texts plus property 12
17:04<planetmaker>frosch123: property 12 is being used, yes
17:04<frosch123>oh, yes, you have to use ff
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17:04<frosch123>"80" means 16 bit textid, else only 8
17:04<planetmaker>why actually?
17:04<planetmaker>ah. Thx!
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17:06<planetmaker>Cool guys. Now I have properly named buildings :-)
17:06<planetmaker>(or at least the potential. And for translations as well)
17:08<planetmaker>comic style
17:09<asilv>remember that you have to add 0x80 to language ids for translations too. (you propably figured this out yourself, but just in case...)
17:11<planetmaker>asilv: yeah, I figured that now :-)
17:11<planetmaker>But translations have to come later, but it's just a list of #defines which needs to be added and it's done. Now there's not much to translate so far, though
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18:55<Sacro>sounds fun
18:55<Sacro>shame I can't read german
19:00<frosch123>"Hintergrundinformationen zum Berufsbild des Sprengmeisters" <- top feature
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19:06<Prof_Frink>Das ist verboten.
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19:08<frosch123> <- i just learned about a new genre of games
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20:51<Katje>is this the right channel for the open transport tycoon ?
21:02<fjb>Most people in here think so. The topic is a strong hint.
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21:04<Katje>any idea why the price of a ship is showing up as over 3 mil, when the screen shots on the website indicate that it should be nearer 33k ?
21:04<fjb>In which year did the game start an what year is it now?
21:06<Katje>and what ever the default is
21:06<Katje>currently 2074
21:06<fjb>Then it is probably caused by infation.
21:09<Katje>all the oil rigs/oil fields have dissappeared
21:09<Katje>leaving me with only offshore stuff
21:09<Katje>erm, oil wells/oil fields, even
21:09<fjb>You can disable inflation in the settings.
21:09<Katje>but I can't get any oil from them, as the ships are to expensive
21:09<fjb>Oilfields tend to disappear.
21:10<Katje>as a consiquence there is now only one oil refinery
21:10<Katje>and it is on the other side of the map
21:10<fjb>Depending on the game setting you can fund (or explore) new industries.
21:11<Katje>can you specify where they should be as well?
21:12<fjb>When funding yes, when prospecting (depending on the settings you can either fund or explore primary industries or not) you can not chose where it will be.
21:17<Katje>where are the funding/prospecting options?
21:19<Katje>urgh, ships are now 11/10 mil each :o(
21:19<Sacro>create a flag
21:19<Sacro>build a path to it
21:19<Sacro>send an explorer to said flag
21:21<Katje>is there any way to control inflation ?
21:21<fjb>You can fund new industries under the industry menu button. And the setting if funding is allowed is somewhere in the gamesetting. Don't know where at the moment, but you will find it.
21:21<fjb>You can only enable or disable inflation.
21:22<Katje>where is the setting for that?
21:23<Katje>ahah, found it
21:23<fjb>In the settings, somewhere under econimy.
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 22 00:00:40 2009