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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-11-30

---Logopened Mon Nov 30 00:00:40 2009
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02:49<Sacro>IF NOT a = 7 THEN
02:49<Sacro>if(!(( a ) == ( 6 )))
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05:19<Eddi|zuHause><_ln> fjb: Do you have age limits for books in libraries? <-- yes, books, like films and games, may be declared "harmful to youth", and must be kept inaccessible for people under 18 years.
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>this is not only limited to pornography
05:20<Eddi|zuHause>also "anticonstitutional" stuff, like nazi propaganda
05:20<Eddi|zuHause>or violence
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05:55<dihedral>number of servers is increasing :-S
05:55<dihedral>179 servers ouch
05:56<@petern>and the number of players?
05:56<dihedral>compared to 140 servers and 104 clients :-P
05:56<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's not exceptionally unexpected that the number of players is low during the day...
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>check back during the evening...
05:58<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, but the number of servers is still quite high
05:58<@petern>it's evening in some countries :s
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>petern: but the majority of players is from europe
05:58<dihedral>looks like people are more enjoying being a lonely openttd admin rather than a company manager ^^
05:59<@Rubidium>openttd admin?
05:59<@Rubidium>they fire up a server and forget about it
05:59<dihedral>openttd game server admin
05:59<dihedral>i did want to add "a bad one too" in brackets ^^
05:59<@Rubidium>which is not quite adminy at all
06:00<dihedral>hehe :P
06:01<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: what compiler do you use?
06:01<dihedral>but "they are the admin" ... "they are the master of /dev/null" :-P
06:01<Arvid_>(11:20:03) (Eddi|zuHause) this is not only limited to pornography --- in norway, you can have kids by the age of 16, but cant buy porn until you are 18 ^^
06:01<fonsinchen>g++ (Debian 4.3.2-1.1) 4.3.2, but ....
06:02<fonsinchen>the effect happens on my powerpc laptop, but is curiously absent on my x86_64 desktop
06:02<fonsinchen>both using the same OS and same compiler and so on.
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>Arvid_: it's not like anybody can forbid you to have kids, when you are biologically able to do so... [which is somewhere between 12 and 14]
06:02<fonsinchen>so it might be dependent on byte order.
06:02<@Rubidium>ah... so that is the important piece of information that has been left out of the bug report
06:03<fonsinchen>I didn't have my desktop around last week.
06:03<fonsinchen>I just noticed that right now
06:03<fonsinchen>I'll add a comment to the FS task
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06:08<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: so fixes the problem?
06:14<fonsinchen>That little Ibook is somewhat slow ... you'll get an answer in about 15 Minutes.
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06:28<fonsinchen>Rubidium: yes, your patch fixes it.
06:30<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18351 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3333]: endianness issue with saving the zoom level
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06:35<Ch0Hag>Is the ttd music available as midi files?
06:35<Ch0Hag>Or convertable thereto.
06:35<Ch0Hag>I'd like the cheesy music at work occasionally.
06:35<@Rubidium>they are midi files
06:36<Ch0Hag>Plain old midi?
06:36<Ch0Hag>Not obfuscated in some weird and wonderful way?
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>no, they are just renamed to .gm
06:37<@Rubidium>I guess not; we use midi playback APIs to play it
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06:42<@petern>the windows ttd music files are midi
06:42<@petern>the dos music is not
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08:53*PeterT is trying to cross-compile
08:53<Ch0Hag>Making gcc angry?
08:54<Ch0Hag>Or maybe gcc is making you angry.
08:55<PeterT>not yet
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08:59<PeterT>ubuntu crashed
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09:08<dihedral>what a great statement!!
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09:10<Eddi|zuHause>most of my crashes (even under windows) were clearly hardware-related
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09:18<Fast2>Good afternoon
09:18<PeterT>afternoon fast2
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09:24<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: the fact he managed to crash one of the most user-friendly linux distros around is saying something :P
09:24<Xaroth>(note, one of the)
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>since when is "user friendly" related to "crash resistent"?
09:27<@Rubidium>has it ever been? User friendly getting credit vs credit crunch?
09:28<blathijs>I guess there is usually (negative) correlation, so that's some relation, right? :-)
09:28<Fast2>OpenTTD has just crashed, should I write a bug report? (I'm not sure because it's the first time and in trunk). Here's a screenshot of the error message:
09:29<@Rubidium>so not to 'us'
09:29<@Rubidium>though fonsinchen might be interested
09:29<@petern>that's not "trunk"
09:30<@Rubidium>even then it's quite an old version
09:30<@Rubidium>and the station view is broken
09:31<fonsinchen>What's wrong with the station view?
09:31<@Rubidium>the amount of cargo is incorrectly aligned
09:32<Fast2>petern: I thougt it's trunk because of the name.
09:32<fonsinchen>Should it be right aligned? I must have missed that.
09:32<fonsinchen>Fast2: Do you have a crash.sav, crash.txt or anything similar?
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09:35<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: unlikely because based on the fact that the exception window shows up the error handling, i.e. crashlog creator, isn't started
09:36<Fast2>fonsinchen: No, but I'll try to reproduce the bug ang coose another option
09:36<fonsinchen>What option?
09:37<Fast2>*ang coose|and choose
09:37<Fast2>Ignore instead of abort
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09:39<fonsinchen>ah, well, we already know this bug. It's the one about the vehicle preview being incorrectly formatted. It has been fixed. Try a newer version.
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09:47<fonsinchen>I think I did the left-aligning on purpose. Like that you can easier spot the indentation for source/via/destination.
09:48<fonsinchen>What's the problem about the amount of cargo being left aligned?
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09:50<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: it draws the text over the images making both less readable
09:51<fonsinchen>Maybe I'll right-align the text for general cargo entries and left-align source/via/destination
09:52<fonsinchen>brr, looks ugly.
09:52<fonsinchen>I guess the images have to be drawn right-aligned then.
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>SQL Error:
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>145 - Table './ttmain/mybb_posts' is marked as crashed and should be repaired
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11:36<PeterT>@calc 1285-1232
11:36<@DorpsGek>PeterT: 53
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11:43<PeterT>Hi Tammaexx
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13:33<Forked>how come a thread about cargo distribution is suddenly a support thread for compiling? :\
13:34<@Belugas>"I can't compile that patch. Can you help?"
13:34<@Belugas>and there is goes ...
13:34<@Belugas>seen more than once
13:34<Forked>well as long as the patch is realistic..
13:34<@Belugas>"i'm too lazy to understand by myself. Push the buttons for me"
13:34*Forked hides
13:35<@Belugas>i'm in a good mood today. Lucky you ;)
13:41<@Rubidium>Forked: because each thread with 'interesting' patches ends up being a support thread for compiling
13:45*fjb hopes that is not the of neither the tread nor the patch.
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13:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18352 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed)
13:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 35 changes by Maccie123
13:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by josesun
13:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: croatian - 221 changes by UnderwaterHesus
13:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: danish - 129 changes by embql
13:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: dutch - 7 changes by habell
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14:09<flikkflakk>Hello! Is there a way to disable landscaping on a server?
14:10<planetmaker>Not with default versions.
14:12<flikkflakk>So would I need to compile my own? or use nightly?
14:12<planetmaker>You'd need to compile your own after you applied an appropriate patch
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14:14<planetmaker> or might be interesting. Mind that they're outdated by about 5000 revisions.
14:15<planetmaker>one of them is - IIRC - a server-side patch. E.g. you could compile it into the server and people could still use their usual client
14:17<flikkflakk>would it be possible to just increase the price for terraforming on the server?
14:17<planetmaker>via newgrfs, yes
14:18<planetmaker>there's one around which does that... but I don't recall its name nor URL
14:20<flikkflakk>hm, that sounds interesting
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14:21<ashb>one in the 'harder server' thread i think
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14:26<flikkflakk>Bigos Pack - Hard Srver Pack(r18288) this one?
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14:53<PeterT>For any OpenTTD Moderator:
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15:53<PeterT>@calc 5.16/30
15:53<@DorpsGek>PeterT: 0.172
15:53<PeterT>@calc 5.16*30
15:53<@DorpsGek>PeterT: 154.8
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15:55<PeterT>@calc 5000/5.16
15:55<@DorpsGek>PeterT: 968.992248062
15:56<PeterT>@calc 365*3*5.16
15:56<@DorpsGek>PeterT: 5650.2
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16:02<planetmaker> <-- is there a way that the tunnel glitch for (longer) train wagons can be removed?
16:03<@Rubidium>yes, but you won't like it
16:03<frosch123>write a (nice) patch that clips the vehicle sprite
16:03<planetmaker>shorter wagons :-P
16:04<SmatZ>hehe @ Rubidium's aswer
16:04<planetmaker>:-P I guess I was asking for it ;-)
16:05<@Rubidium>planetmaker: no, bigger 'normal' tiles, i.e. 66x33 instead of 64x32 (or whatever the correct size is) and remove all 'incorrect' numbers from the source
16:06<planetmaker>that would mean overlapping ground tiles. And would mean to redraw all sprites... doesn't it?
16:06<@Rubidium>no, not overlapping ground sprite, just bigger ground sprites
16:06<@Rubidium>and yes it means redrawing more sprites than the 'few' wagon sprites
16:07<planetmaker>well... then everything is scaled up a bit. and we end up where we are now with 3 pixels added or so.
16:07<@Rubidium>no, you wouldn't make the wagon bigger ofcourse
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16:08<frosch123>btw. planetmaker: are you aware about the used recolouring of houses:
16:09<frosch123>some use the bridge recolouring, some the company colour recolouring, and the churches use their own recolouring
16:09<planetmaker>oh...? They are different?
16:10<planetmaker>I mean... different houses use different re-colour schemes?
16:10<planetmaker>Indeed I didn't know at all.
16:11<frosch123>"C6 C7 C8 C9 CA CB CC CD" <- company colour, "46 47 48 49 4A 4B 4C 4D 4E 4F" <- bridges, "69 6A 6D 6E 72 74 76 77 78 7B" <- church only
16:13<planetmaker>hm, nice
16:13<planetmaker>can I change that for a particular house in a base set?
16:14<frosch123>no :) you can change the recolourtables themself, but that will break newgrfs using them
16:14<planetmaker>that's no option :-)
16:15<frosch123> <- you might find some details about the different recolouring in the middle, but don't ask about the format of that file :p
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16:16<frosch123>PALETTE_TO_STRUCT_xxx are the bridge type of recolouring, PALETTE_59x is the church type, PALETTE_TO_XXX is company colour
16:16<frosch123>(everything afaik)
16:16<planetmaker>hm. That might explain why one of the churches in OpenGFX is so glitchy, too.
16:18<planetmaker>hm... but how does it then work, that a random CC is assigned, if PALETTE_TO_XXX is given expressely?
16:19<frosch123>the same sprites appear multiple times in that table
16:19<planetmaker>Ok, but then on the reverse logic: a house with a spriteID which has PAL_NONE... then a CC part won't ever be anything but the colour it is painted in?
16:20<frosch123>but, maybe some building get some additional random recolouring
16:21<frosch123> const DrawBuildingsTileStruct *dcts = &_town_draw_tile_data[house_id << 4 | TileHash2Bit(ti->x, ti->y) << 2 | GetHouseBuildingStage(ti->tile)]; <- that is the important line, so all "random" recolouring is part of that table
16:21<frosch123>only recolourings mentioned in that table are used
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16:24<planetmaker>interesting. No wonder it doesn't work for some houses :-)
16:24<planetmaker>Thanks for enlightening me :-)
16:26<frosch123>hehe, i was concerned about the recolouring in opengfx for quite some while, but never meet someone who would be able to deal with it :)
16:26<frosch123>so, also thanks :)
16:27<planetmaker>well... Now I have the nice task at hand to see which houses actually can use that... that will be joy! ;-)
16:28<planetmaker>In any case, I'll add a note so that it won't get forgotten :-) Thanks a lot for telling me
16:29<frosch123>i guess you can somehow automagically reverse that table to collect the recolourings used for a certain sprite
16:29<planetmaker>yes, some awk, grep or alike magic should be able to do that.
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16:43<Terkhen>I got that error compiling current trunk with MSVC
16:44<@Rubidium>oooh... WT3...
16:45<Terkhen>STR_STATION_BUILD_ACCEPTS_CARGO :{BLACK}Prihvaća: {GOLD.aku} <--- here is the line causing the problem
16:47<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18353 /trunk/src/lang/croatian.txt: -Fix: string colours can't have a case
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16:48<Terkhen>thanks :)
16:48<OutInDark>Can anyone do Voice?
16:48<@Belugas>i can sing, if yu which
16:49<planetmaker>yes, please, Belugas :-)
16:49<OutInDark>Turn on voice
16:49<@Belugas>i can kick and i can ban. why do you want Voice?
16:49<@Rubidium># I hear your voice on the wind
16:49<@Rubidium># And I hear you call out my name
16:49<@Belugas>planetmaker, you do NOT want that ;)
16:49<_ln>OutInDark: the Bene Gesserit type of Voice?
16:50<planetmaker>I judge by the instruments ;-)
16:50<OutInDark>The mic voip in irc
16:50<@Belugas>that reminds me something Rubidium... what's that? not Dio...
16:50<planetmaker>OutInDark, are you sure that you know what IRC stands for?
16:50<@Belugas>planetmaker, my guit sings better than me :D
16:50<OutInDark>Internet Relay Chat
16:50<planetmaker>and from what time it originates?
16:51<+glx>it's from before www :)
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16:51<planetmaker>haha :-)
16:51<@Rubidium>anyhow, what's the reason why someone we've never seen before to give them /voice... and now I'm too late
16:51<@Belugas>YEAH! another annoyance gone!
16:52<@Rubidium>Belugas: no, that was from "The Voice" from "Celtic Woman", whoever they may be
16:52*Belugas will search tonigh
16:52<@Belugas>and tonigh is coming soon for me :D
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16:54<@Rubidium>hmm, it sounds strangely familiar
16:55<planetmaker>sounds actually like a plan...
16:58<@Rubidium>oh, maybe it was when I was looking for the original of one of the tracks on an Amy MacDonald
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16:59<planetmaker>as opposed to many singes she indeed does have a voice.
17:02<Prof_Frink>I've never heard a sewing machine talk.
17:04<@Belugas>bye bye
17:04<planetmaker>g'night Belugas, g'night all, also from here
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17:26<Eddi|zuHause><Prof_Frink> I've never heard a sewing machine talk. <-- that's easy, once you manage to install netbsd on it ;)
17:26<Terkhen>good night
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17:27<Eddi|zuHause>... good ... night
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17:35<_ln>"it makes very clear who can vote and who cannot; for example, a woman cannot vote but a horse can"
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17:49<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:49<SmatZ>hello Nite_Owl
17:50<Nite_Owl>Hello SmatZ
17:51<PeterT>Hello SmatZ, hello Nite_Owl
17:51<SmatZ>hello PeterT
17:51<Nite_Owl>Hello PeterT
17:53<Chrill>Hello Nite_Owl, hello SmatZ, hello PeterT
17:53<PeterT>Hello Chrill
17:53<SmatZ>hello Chrill
17:53<Nite_Owl>Hello Chrill
17:53<PeterT>Hello :P
17:54<Prof_Frink>Hello, Brian
17:55<PeterT>Hello Prof_Frink
17:55<Prof_Frink>You're not Brian.
17:57-!-zodttd [] has joined #openttd
17:57<Chrill>Who's Brian?
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>you don't know Brian?
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18:59<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18354 /branches/0.7/ (10 files in 5 dirs):
18:59<CIA-4>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
18:59<CIA-4>OpenTTD: - Fix: Endianness issue with saving the zoom level [FS#3333] (r18351)
18:59<CIA-4>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Prepare for 0.7.4
19:00<PeterT>0.7.4, wooohooo
19:00<PeterT>bug fixes and ai fixes!
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19:02<Chrill>How high has the 3rd number gone as highest? :p
19:02<Chrill>I have some vague memory of 0.4.7
19:04<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18355 /tags/0.7.4/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.4
19:04<PeterT>Here we are
19:05<PeterT>I'll update the wiki
19:06<@Rubidium>as in 0.4.8 was released too
19:06<Chrill>I see
19:06<Chrill>ah, I see
19:06<Chrill>for 0.8, the plan is full OpenGFX and OpenSFX, yeah?
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19:07<@Rubidium>I guess so; just need capable people
19:08<Chrill>Wish I could contribtue :(
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>the "problem" with 0.4.x is that it's not really representative, because 0.4.5 should rather have been 0.5.0
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>there was no 0.4.1 to 0.4.4
19:11<Chrill>so from 0.4.0 to 0.4.5?
19:12<SmatZ>then 0.4.5 ;)
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>iirc there was a 0.3.6
19:12<Chrill>there was
19:12<Chrill>released 25th january 2005 :p
19:12<Chrill>I think I got playing with OpenTTD at 0.4.6
19:13<Chrill>or 0.4.7
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>0.4.6 was one of the worst releases ever
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>it had kind of a fatal bug :p
19:13<Chrill>crash-on-save or something? xD
19:13<Chrill>0.4.7 was released after 4 days
19:13<SmatZ>my first version was some 0.3.x, it was quite unstable... later I got 0.4.8, and I spend a lot of time with that one :)
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>no, not a crash, but "trains did not find their way out of a depot" or something
19:14<Chrill>I've come to update a lot to every new stable release
19:14<Chrill>running 0.7.3 at the moment
19:14<Chrill>usually no nightlies
19:14<Chrill>there aren't any LARGE differences between nightly and stable nowadays, are there? Downloaded a nightly and couldn't really spot anything
19:15<SmatZ>hard to say
19:15<SmatZ>what you call large
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>there are a handful of small features
19:15<SmatZ>there aren't LARGE differences between 0.2 and trunk...
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>the largest change is more under-the-hood kind
19:15<Chrill>I'd consider PBS signalling or new pathfinders large
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>the GUI rewrite, and resulting RTL and large font support
19:16-!-Fuco [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:16<Eddi|zuHause>Right-To-Left languages
19:17<Chrill>Well yes, that is a large change indeed
19:17<Chrill>I'm impressed with how OpenTTD has developed from the original TTD
19:17<+glx>it's included in GUI changes :)
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19:17<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18356 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Merge: changes to the changelogs etc. in the 0.7 branch
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>then there's smaller stuff like stopping in the middle of the platform
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>or parts of timetable management
19:18<@Rubidium>IPv6 support
19:18<SmatZ> things marged as "feature" in commit message
19:19<@Rubidium> <- more thorough, though less up-to-date (300 revisions to be precise)
19:19<SmatZ>of course, there are things like "much better crash log" and "crash log on non-windows platforms"...
19:19<+glx>not useful for gamers ;)
19:19<PeterT>I've updated the wiki:
19:19<PeterT>You're welcome
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>all the potential larger things (cargodest, roadtypes, newgrf airports) kinda got delayed, i wouldn't expect any of these in 0.8
19:20<@Rubidium>or the non-autorail rail laying stuff act more like autorail
19:20<SmatZ>thanks ;)
19:20<@Rubidium>but yes, it's a quite big assortment of small features/improvements
19:21<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: everything is possible :)
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>glx: yes, but possible != expected
19:21<+glx>but indeed I doubt one of them can be ready for 0.8
19:22<+glx>though maybe roadtypes is already done, but will reach trunk in 2 years ;)
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19:23<@Rubidium>Chrill: if you want to see differences: double the font sizes in the config file and select Arabic. Then compare 0.7 and trunk
19:23<Chrill>Eddi|zuHause: the stop-in-middle-of-platform thing is something I really like, I must say
19:23<+glx>doubling font size is already a good test
19:23<Chrill>yes, Rubidium, those were pointed out ;)
19:24<@Rubidium>Chrill: I know, but 'just' compare them :)
19:24<+glx>especially small non-TTD font
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19:28<Chrill>oh, a question
19:28<Chrill>I remember back in old nightlies
19:28<Chrill>one could construct rail crossings over roads diagonally
19:28<Chrill>why was this idea scrapped?
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19:29<@Rubidium>1) miniin != nightlies
19:29<@Rubidium>2) it wasn't finished
19:29<Chrill>okay :)
19:29<@Rubidium>3) the developer of said patch, one of the OpenTTD developers, never finished it when he was a 'real' dev
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>4) the approach he used had unsolvable problems with two parallel diagonal rails
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19:35*Rubidium wonders why so many people seem to have the imagination that anything in MiniIN or any later INs/patch packs has gone through any kind of real quality control
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19:41*fjb thinks that people don't expect quality control.
19:43<@Rubidium>true, and for INs/patch packs they seldomly report bugs
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19:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18357 /extra/website/general/utils/ [Website] -Change: do not redirect Ubuntu users to the Debian package but to the generic Linux package that has ICU statically linked in. This should reduce problems for Ubuntu users to use OpenTTD.
19:51<PeterT>^Thanks for that :)
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>gnah... two days in a row now that i hit the forum backup...
20:02<@Rubidium>that's the 'time to go to bed'
20:03-!-Rubidium changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.4 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, translator: translator, server list: servers, nightly-builds: nightly, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only
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20:14*Chrill updates to 0.7.4
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21:39<Pikka>who broke the forums?
21:39*Pikka slaps orudge
21:40<Pikka>how rare
21:41<Chrill>is good
21:41<Chrill>forums will be faster and less heavy on servers
21:41<Pikka>is don, is good
21:43<@orudge>it'll probably not make that much difference
21:43<@orudge>but yes, updating
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 01 00:00:40 2009