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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-12-16

---Logopened Wed Dec 16 00:00:06 2009
00:25<+tokai>Belugas: Better don't; usually they grow back two heads then. :)
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03:05<@peter1138>oh yeah, dbsetxl is broken these days
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04:00*planetmaker must have missed the broken parts so far
04:00*roboboy wonders if he will be able to mod OpenTTD in 21 days
04:01*planetmaker can mod OpenTTD in the time it needs to open an editor
04:01<planetmaker>and load one of the source files and save it.
04:01<@peter1138>planetmaker, many consists have way too much power
04:02<@peter1138>anything with powered wagons is broken
04:03<@peter1138>ttdpatch had a bug which it relied on
04:03*roboboy got one of those learn C++ in 21 days books
04:03<@peter1138> :)
04:04<@peter1138>so it's been broken in ttdpatch for over two years too
04:04<planetmaker>haha :-)
04:07<@peter1138>maybe he doesn't know...
04:08<planetmaker>he doesn't do mistakes :-P
04:08<@peter1138>not a mistake, just fixed well after dbsetxl was released
04:09<planetmaker>given the age of DBXL it's easy to happen...
04:10<planetmaker>can you give an example which is wrong? ICE doesn't look wrong to me...
04:11<@peter1138>which ice?
04:12<@peter1138>you are probably used to it ;)
04:12<planetmaker>or was there a change in OpenTTD > 18461?
04:13<planetmaker>hm... sure that those values are wrong? 20MW doesn't sound excessive
04:13<planetmaker>(19040 horse powers)
04:14<@peter1138>check the readme :)
04:14<@peter1138>ice-3 should have 10880 HP
04:15<planetmaker>ah... yes
04:16<@peter1138>same problem with the early EMUs
04:16<@peter1138>ET-87 has 1359HP instead of 680HP
04:17<planetmaker>too much power seldom shows ;-) Too little would have been noticed way earlier ;-)
04:17<@peter1138>so indeed, maybe he doesn't know
04:17<@peter1138>it does make the set easier though
04:17<@peter1138>the early EMUs ahve more power than the expensive electrics
04:18<@peter1138>so it's unbalanced
04:18<@peter1138>when i mentioned the inconsistency with patchman i assumed he'd change the wiki
04:18<@peter1138>but he fixed 'patch instead :)
04:20<planetmaker>he... that's definitely a way to change the documentation
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04:31<@peter1138>bah, landscape generators suck :(
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04:34<@peter1138>scenarios suck too
04:34<@peter1138>people have strange ideas about how rivers and mountains are formed
04:36<planetmaker>the biggest draw-back of scenarios is IMO that it's not nicely possible to change vehicle, industry and town newgrfs
04:37<planetmaker>e.g. a scenario designed two years ago, certainly would look nice with the updated and new newgrfs...
04:37<planetmaker>a nice idea would be to have town sizes and industry locations defined, but not yet started as a new game - which is only done, if really loaded as playing game
04:38<planetmaker>but then it breaks existing scenarios for sure...
04:38<planetmaker>and is *a lot* of work to implement
04:43<Xaroth><@peter1138> people have strange ideas << fixed.
04:43<Xaroth>planetmaker: why not just create a different format for that then :)
04:49<planetmaker>Xaroth, that would make sense, somewhat, yes.
04:49<@peter1138>there used to be a distinction between playing and loading a scenario
04:49<planetmaker>But then... the current scenarios could just be called savegames
04:49<@peter1138>one would start with the scenario's settings
04:49<@peter1138>the other would start with the player's settings
04:49<@peter1138>but that got removed
04:51<planetmaker>well... it's still a savegame which starts with its parameters saved within it.
04:52<@peter1138>it is now
04:52<@peter1138>it wasn't before
04:52<@peter1138>that was before newgrfs were saved though
04:54<planetmaker>oh. he :-) Better save newgrfs then
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04:56<@peter1138>in theory scenarios without towns and industries can use the player's set up easily
04:56<@peter1138>iirc you can't play them currently
04:56<Yexo>you can't load a scenario without a town
04:57<@peter1138>it wouldn't be much of a scenario without industries and towns, mind you
05:06<planetmaker>yes, it wouldn't be.
05:07<planetmaker>My idea would rather be to have some sort of place holders or indicators - which would get filled when loading it as a real game
05:07<planetmaker>it would thus increase the half-life time of useful scenarios :-)
05:08<Yexo>for towns I can see that working,for industries it's more diffcult
05:08<planetmaker>and especially make use of newgrfs more fruitful... scenarios with newgrfs are OLD very fast.
05:08<Yexo>after all industry placement in a sceneario can depend heavily on the type of industries
05:09<planetmaker>Yes, industries are a bit problematic, I know...
05:11<planetmaker>it's not something well thought-out yet :-)
05:11<planetmaker>The rough idea I had so far is to either allow industries in some places or not. Or another option could be to allow certain cargo types as input or output in certain regions
05:11*peter1138 goes back to pondering tunnels
05:11<planetmaker>regions as in the way you define desert / jungle in tropical
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06:35<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18514 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: make it a bit clearer that for tile layouts num_sprites (as in number of sprite sets) is not the same as num_sprites (as in number of building sprites)
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06:50<@peter1138>brrr, cold :(
06:50<Noldo>how cold?
06:50<@peter1138>jacket on indoors cold
06:51<Noldo>-18,5 outside
06:53<welshdragon>!seen petert
06:53<welshdragon>I was enjoying his server
06:54<Noldo>maybe forum pm would reach him
06:54<@peter1138>maybe my fist will reach him
06:54<welshdragon>peter1138: didn't you have a server?
06:57<welshdragon>nobody else is running a 0.7.5-rc1 game :(
06:57<@peter1138>i have done in the past
06:57<@peter1138>i tend to run nightlies though
06:57<@peter1138>or just 'current revision' hehe
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07:00<welshdragon>right then
07:00<welshdragon>time to install openttd on this server I have access to :P
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07:28*welshdragon hides the blatant translation bug in openttd :(
07:28<welshdragon>(in Welsh)
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07:31<Yexo>welshdragon: please sign up at and correct any errors you find
07:31<@peter1138>that's YOUR fault that is
07:31<Yexo>that's the only way to improve the translation
07:32<welshdragon>Yexo: i'll correct it now
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07:47<Narcissus>Hey - are there any rpm's for OpenTTD? If not, want me to roll some up for you want host them?
07:47<Narcissus>s/want\ host/and\ host/
07:50<thingwath>for example. :)
07:51<planetmaker>Narcissus, there are. All SuSE editions have their rpms
07:51<planetmaker>at least as of... a week ago ;-)
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07:51<Narcissus>ah indeed
07:51<planetmaker>but then... just download, unzip and enjoy
07:51*Narcissus adds more repos
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07:56<Ammler>Narcissus: I just fiddling around with it a bit (
07:56<Ammler>also the official distro repos have openttd packages.
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07:57<Ammler>Narcissus: which distro do you have in mind?
07:58<Narcissus>Ammler: CentOS && Fedora
07:58<Ammler> <-- also related
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08:04<Ammler>Narcissus: if you think the spec need improvement to work "better" with CentOS and Fedora, suggestions are very much welcome.
08:06<Narcissus>Ammler: tbf I didn't know there was any rpms as I didn't really search for them, just did yum search through rpmforge, but thanks for the rpms anyway
08:11<Ammler>fedora has them also on his official repo
08:11<Ammler>Narcissus: what wm do you run?
08:12<Ammler>(KDE, Gnome, something else?
08:12<Narcissus>Ammler: Xfce
08:17<Ammler>there is is fine, I have a KDE glitch here, where I have no Idea how to fix.
08:18<@peter1138>is xfce consistent yet? heh
08:18<Narcissus>Xfce is lovely :3
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08:41<dihedral>peter1138, what kind of answer do you expect from someone who uses xfce?
08:41<Lakie>What is xfce?
08:43<welshdragon>that's a good question Lakie
08:43<welshdragon>(damn, i had to hit tab 3 times :( )
08:43<Ammler>I use it on my very old desktop where KDE doesn't run
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08:45<planetmaker>anyone knows which are the mapgen sprite numbers?
08:45<Ammler>Lakie: xfce4 is Windows Manager like KDE or Gnome
08:45<Lakie>Fair enough.
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08:49<@peter1138>RISC OS forever!
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09:39<TrueBrain>error: syntax failure
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09:49<Fish-Face>I'm trying to create an external plotter to find the optimum distance for stations and suchlike - so I need to implement the formula for how much income you get for a delivery
09:50<Fish-Face>But there's some weirdness with the formula on the wiki and that in the code
09:52<planetmaker>it depends on the speed of delivery...
09:52<planetmaker>which depends upon the actual track length, not the separation of the stations.
09:53<Fish-Face>I'm plotting it abstractly, as in the wiki, but my graphs don't match those on the wiki
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09:53<Fish-Face>for income against speed, the initial plateau is much longer in my plot :/
09:58<Fish-Face>so my interpretations of the wiki formula and the code formula agree... almost. But neither agree with the graphs on the wiki
09:58<Fish-Face>hmm, perhaps my speed conversion is wrong
09:58<Madis>!seen skidd13
09:58<Madis>@seen skidd13
09:58<@DorpsGek>Madis: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 25 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <skidd13> night folks
10:01<planetmaker>Fish-Face, well... the code is always right :-)
10:02<planetmaker>the speed is (within the code) in miles per hour
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10:02<planetmaker>But I might be wrong and it changed
10:02<Loffe>Whoa, lots of people.
10:02<planetmaker>usually such things are commented in the appropriate pieces of the source ;-)
10:03<Fish-Face>planetmaker, hmm... I don't need to know about speed in the code I don't think
10:04<Fish-Face>only distance (in tiles) and time (in days, but / 2.5)
10:04<TrueBrain>Loffe: if you like, we can leave?
10:04<planetmaker>Fish-Face, true :-) For delivery the transit time only matters
10:05<Loffe>TrueBrain nah, i'll cope :)
10:05<Fish-Face>I think I have it working sensibly now... maybe
10:06<planetmaker>there are two kinda times which define the prices. With different influence on the income. Those times are cargo specific
10:06<dihedral>planetmaker, track length is not the only thing that matters :-P
10:06<Fish-Face>ah, I've worked out the problem
10:06<Fish-Face>I was dividing by 2.5 instead of multiplying by it
10:06<Loffe>Any idea if there's a patch for having the Valuables chain in the Sub-Arctic tileset?
10:07<planetmaker>Loffe, it's relatively easy to do that via newgrf. But I know of no such one
10:07<Loffe>planetmaker ok
10:07<Loffe>I've been playing around with the US scenario with NARS &c, but I'd like to get an urban-to-urban industrial thing going on
10:09<Loffe>I suppose I could just switch the tileset - but that would be too easy :P
10:09<planetmaker>well... use temperate ;-)
10:09<planetmaker>or maybe one of the industry sets provides it. Or you "just" make that small newgrf yourself.
10:10<planetmaker>But I fear it has a big entry barrier to actually code that
10:10<planetmaker>Though... it's not impossible and once one got the hang of, it's moderately easy.
10:10<Loffe>yeah, my coding experience stops at basic java and that was, what, 10 years ago :P
10:11<planetmaker>Well... it's not THAT difficult. You just need to change the climate availability of those industries.
10:11<planetmaker>and you'd be done. It's like 10 lines of NFO code or so.
10:11<planetmaker>maybe 20, if you make it big
10:11<planetmaker>doesn't mean I can do it in 5 minutes :-)
10:11<Loffe>Hehe, I wasn't going to suggest that ;)
10:11<Madis>it's THAT difficult :)
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10:13<planetmaker>Though... Loffe you could obtain the source of the lumbermill newgrf. It does a very similar thing to the lumber mill
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10:39<Luukland>And the server master arrives :)
10:39<Luukland>no need to bow :p
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11:23<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18515 /trunk/src/ (saveload/afterload.cpp train_cmd.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp):
11:23<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Change: make it visible when you're to pass the next signal on danger and possible to cancel it
11:23<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2891]: when you pass a signal at danger, in a PBS controlled area,
11:23<CIA-4>OpenTTD: don't try to do the 'safe' thing and stop, but continue going; the user wanted
11:23<CIA-4>OpenTTD: the train to pass the signal at danger so (s)he has to suffer the consequences.
11:23<CIA-4>OpenTTD: Ofcourse one can always stop the train manually.
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11:46<@Rubidium>yay... the relative OSX bug count has doubled since my thread about it...
11:49<ashb>Rubidium: and they are more then just duplicates?
11:51<planetmaker>but there were not that many new specific bugs, were there?
11:53<@Rubidium>nope, but then the question is whether they know they won't be fixed and don't report them because of that
11:53<@Rubidium>or that they fear that if there are too many bugs reported we will really stop supporting it, etc.
11:55<planetmaker>well... it doesn't matter. 10.6 isn't supported anyway... so I can keep reporting bugs. And better document them than leave them undocumented
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11:55<planetmaker>even if... there's no point in not reporting. It doesn't solve anything
11:57<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18516 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Feature [FS#3359]: moving of AIs in the AI configuration window. Based on a patch by Zuu.
11:58<planetmaker>will you keep producing binaries for 10.3.9 ... 10.5 for the future releases, though?
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12:00<planetmaker>hello Terkhen
12:00<ashb>W 39
12:01<@Belugas>Q 23
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12:01<@Rubidium>planetmaker: probably not; it's full of bugs nobody is really bothered about fixing. Better axe something broken (PBS anyone?) than having to support users not reading that their version is not supported
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12:02<@Rubidium>it'd even make the nightlies available 10-15 minutes earlier
12:02<planetmaker>hm... that'd be unfortunate :-(
12:02<planetmaker>I mean... it works usually and there's no critical bug. And you wouldn't even need to change anything...
12:03<planetmaker>say: as it's now it's not really much work for you, or is it?
12:03<@Rubidium>well, the game flickering magenta isn't some quite annoying bug?
12:03<planetmaker>I cannot reproduce it.
12:03<@Rubidium>it's even more annoying than some trains crashing when you mess with you PBS signaled junction
12:04<@Rubidium>and PBS got axed
12:04<fonsinchen>What is "to axe"?
12:05<planetmaker>cut out
12:05<planetmaker>use an axe on it
12:05<@Rubidium>"to chop, split, or sever with an ax"
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12:06<fonsinchen>Huh? You removed PBS from the game?
12:06<@Rubidium>well, not me... but it was removed
12:07<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit by Darkvater :: r3472 /trunk (52 files in 5 dirs) (2006-01-29 18:57:26 UTC)
12:07<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: - [PBS] Remove from trunk. Anyone interested can still find it in branch/pbs. This reverts revisions r3158, r3140, r3075, r2977, r2674, r2625, r2621, r2529, r2528, r2525, r2524, r2519, r2517, r2516, r2507, r2499. (in conjunction with Tron)
12:07<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: - The only change is that the nsignalsw.grf file is kept and that existing nightlies with PBS signals get those signals converted to combo-signals.
12:08<fonsinchen>so that was an old implementation of PBS and has nothing to do with YAPP, right?
12:08<@Rubidium>yes, nevertheless it got axed
12:09<planetmaker>let's test the blitters :-)
12:09<frosch123>8bpp-debug ?
12:09<planetmaker>yes. That's aweful
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12:10<SmatZ>it's fancy
12:11<frosch123>esp. for anymated tiles
12:12<planetmaker>is it supposed to look funny?
12:12<planetmaker>I never tried it...
12:12<frosch123>no idea, maybe it is easier usable after 5 coffee
12:13<frosch123>cups of
12:13<@Belugas>big fat enormous mugs !!
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12:15<planetmaker> <-- like that?
12:16<@Belugas>nifty :D
12:16<@Rubidium>nice, ain't it... and it's even vaguely playable
12:16<planetmaker>honestly: what is debug supposed to look like?
12:16<planetmaker>ok :-)
12:17<@Belugas>so unreal, i like it
12:18<planetmaker>how does one fix bugs which one cannot reproduce? :S
12:19<@Rubidium>try long enough till you can reproduce it
12:19<@Rubidium>but... as long as the 'victim' can reproduce it it's still there
12:26<@peter1138>heh, the problem with the original PBS was trains crashing _without_ messing with junctions...
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13:17<TrueBrain>[18:16] <planetmaker> honestly: what is debug supposed to look like? <- funny story: 8bpp-debug was the first blitter created, where the sprite/palette loader was not yet working in any sane way; still I wanted to see what was outputted, so I gave random colours to the objects. This turned out to look so cool, I just had to keep the blitter :)
13:18<TrueBrain>no idea if it is ever used for any sane debugging :p
13:18<planetmaker>hehe :-)
13:18<planetmaker>fair enough, I have to say
13:23<@peter1138>he was one a long acid trip at the time, mind you
13:30<@Belugas>strange... i don't remember those colours when i was on it :S
13:31<@Belugas>must not be the same type...
13:32<TrueBrain>Belugas: you first need to come out of it to notice the difference :p
13:34<@Belugas>blup blup blup
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13:36<Timmaexx>Good Evening
13:37<@Rubidium>what would be a sane naming 'regime' for archives with openttd, opengfx, opensfx and nosound? Would be useful for 0.8 I'd say. openttd-<ver>-<target>-full, openttd-<ver>-<target>-ready-to-play (or would people then download it each time?), openttd-<ver>-<target>-starter-edition?
13:37<@Rubidium>or is there something better?
13:40<TrueBrain>rename the current to -core, then you can name this -full ;)
13:42<jonty-comp>what TrueBrain said
13:42<frosch123>core is stupid, then rather update
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13:43<TrueBrain>'openttd' is not 'update'
13:43<TrueBrain>it is the 'core' or 'minimalistic'
13:44<frosch123>stage-2 :p
13:44<@Rubidium>once you've installed -full, it's kinda an update
13:44<TrueBrain>Rubidium: in a very strange and weird way, begging for tons of questions, sure :)
13:44<TrueBrain>(I installed -full, do I now also need to install -update?)
13:45<@Rubidium>true, but... -core implies really minimalistic, e.g. only English
13:45<TrueBrain>so name it something else ;)
13:45<Ammler>or dedicated
13:45<TrueBrain>I was just noting it would be good to rename the current, and use -full
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18517 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: danish - 3 changes by beruic
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by Yexo
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: french - 4 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:45<jonty-comp>how about something to do with not having resources
13:45<jonty-comp>like -nores, only better
13:46<jonty-comp>or -original and -complete or something
13:46<frosch123>or just -with-media
13:46<planetmaker>Rubidium: -full and alike sounds fine to me
13:46<@Rubidium>I'd rather avoid people downloading -complete each time because they don't want -original
13:47<planetmaker>-bin -lang -graphics -sound
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>so -minimal and -complete?
13:47<@Rubidium>planetmaker: then they're better of just downloading them theirselves
13:47<TrueBrain>you can also make a -data and -light/-minimal what ever
13:47<planetmaker>Rubidium: well... I thought as possible updates :-)
13:48<frosch123>Rubidium: but doesn't that only depend on the website interface? e.g. wouldn't a non-editable always-checked "openttd" checkbox and a default-checked "opengfx&sfx" checkbox solve that?
13:48<planetmaker>with -bin being what currently is your download
13:48<TrueBrain>Rubidium: or make one package, and make a small thingy in OpenTTD which downloads the opengfx/opensfx when ever it is first started :p :p
13:48<Ammler>then the suggestion from frosch -offline would suiffice
13:48<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: opening a network connection without asking? That's asking for trouble
13:48<TrueBrain>then you ask about it ;)
13:49<frosch123>TrueBrain: and the win installer already does
13:49<TrueBrain>"You seem not to have any GFX files. Should we download OpenGFX for you?"
13:49<@Rubidium>how? You've can't show anything
13:49<TrueBrain>English only ;)
13:49<@Rubidium>you can't draw anything because you don't have the graphics or the colour mappings
13:49<TrueBrain>so pick black
13:49<TrueBrain>on white
13:49<@Rubidium>and without colour mappings everything gets mapped to transparent
13:49<TrueBrain>(you can very easy set a palette colour :p)
13:50<TrueBrain>or hardcode one palette
13:50<TrueBrain>that wouldn't be the problem :)
13:51<Ammler>include opengfx and nosound ot the min. openttd
13:51<TrueBrain>or: include opengfx/opensfx in all release binaries (not in the nightlies, that would be silly)
13:51<TrueBrain>the server has plenty of bandwidth left :p
13:52<frosch123>that would suggest "-minimal" again :)
13:53<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: the 'full' packages are 5 times bigger (20 MB)
13:54<@Rubidium>which gets us pretty damn close to the bandwidth limit
13:54<TrueBrain>Rubidium: time to talk to LeaseWeb again, I say ;)
13:54<TrueBrain>or to finally finnish the mirror system
13:54<@Rubidium>and one can expect that once people don't need TTD graphics more people are going to use it
13:56<frosch123>"[x] i am playing ottd for the first time and also need the free graphics and sounds" <- disabled by default?
13:57<TrueBrain>or enable by default, set cookie, and disable when cookie is there? :)
13:57<@Rubidium>frosch123: you missed section 0 of the 'what are users' manual :)
13:57<@Rubidium>I think I'll just leave it to the windows installer
13:57<@Rubidium>and maybe someone gets inspired and writes an installer for linux
13:57<Ammler>skidd is no dev anymore?
13:58<@Rubidium>he retired
13:58<TrueBrain>(glad you notice after almost a year :s)
13:59<Ammler>well, Truebrain made once a similar thread ;-)
13:59<frosch123>or was it truelight?
13:59<Ammler>It wasn't a month ago I talked with him about the spec
13:59<frosch123>yeah, he is bored during his military service :)
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>that's the thing with addictions, they always lead you back ;)
14:00<Ammler>I liked his feedback before I submit it to the official package maintainers...
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14:09<Timmaexx>May I vote for
14:09<Timmaexx>[19:51:42] <TrueBrain> or: include opengfx/opensfx in all release binaries (not in the nightlies, that would be silly)
14:10<Timmaexx>That would be the easiest thing for beginners I think...
14:12<@peter1138>i won't let you
14:16<planetmaker>-full and -core as TB proposed sound also easy enough... with -core being the default download
14:16<planetmaker>Maybe one could offer then an additional -media or so. E.g. opengfx/sfx
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>-game, -media, -full?
14:21<frosch123>-pro, -1337, -n00b ?
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14:21<TrueBrain>somehow I got my linux in this state that pressing my numpad moves my mouse .....
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14:22<@peter1138>it's a feature
14:22<@peter1138>shift-alt-numlock toggles it
14:22<TrueBrain>how ever did I press that :s
14:22<@peter1138>there must be something else that does too, because i don't think i ever pressed that combination accidentally either...
14:23-!-xopek [~xopknet@] has joined #openttd
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14:26<Eddi|zuHause>i want the alt+arrows==mouse movement feature back in the game :(
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14:39<Timmaexx>PeterT how do you write 1600 Threads since August???
14:40<Alberth>react at every post with a post of your own
14:40<@peter1138>by posting shit all the time
14:40<frosch123>e.g. "what is <insert first word of topic>?"
14:41<Timmaexx>Hehe I ask myself, if you have RL? Not to bash you, but I am afraid thats good for your health
14:42<frosch123>what is RL?
14:42<SmatZ>rocket launcher
14:43<frosch123>... worst game ever
14:43<Prof_Frink>frosch123: Once you find the cheat codes it's more fun.
14:44<Timmaexx>PeterT don't call me ashole! You don't know me!
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but it has good graphics (i am told)
14:44<PeterT>I didn't call you an asshole
14:44<frosch123>Prof_Frink: you know b*lugas' forum signature?
14:45<frosch123>disclaimed: previous question was rhetorical
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14:58<TrueBrain>[20:44] <Timmaexx> PeterT don't call me ashole! You don't know me! <- is he seeing things, or is my ignore list too powerful?
14:58*Yexo didn't see it either
14:59<Yexo>otherwise dorpsgek could've seen some action :p
14:59<PeterT>TrueBrain: I said to him in PM, "What an asshole move, writing about me in xxx place"
15:00<TrueBrain>Yexo: would it be too late now?
15:00<planetmaker>yeah! Mud throwing! Where's my super socer?
15:00<Yexo>never too late
15:00<Yexo>but since nothing wrong was said here it wouldn't be fair
15:00<PeterT>Thanks, Yexo
15:01<TrueBrain>fair fair ... who needs fairness?
15:01<Prof_Frink>Since when was Dorpy fair?
15:01<PeterT>Wow, when Zephyris makes a suggestion, he goes all out:
15:01<TrueBrain>Lets put it to a vote
15:01<TrueBrain>anyone in favour?
15:02<Yexo>you should ask for votes against
15:02<TrueBrain>my mistake
15:02<TrueBrain>anyone against?
15:02<Yexo>then assume everyone who wasn't against is in favour
15:03-!-Narcissus [~Narcissus@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:05<TrueBrain>this is a tie breaker .. no for, no against ..
15:05<Yexo>so you get to decide
15:05*Prof_Frink spoils his ballot
15:05<TrueBrain>I hate decisions
15:05<Prof_Frink>Flip a coin.
15:05*TrueBrain flips Prof_Frink
15:05<Yexo>@calc random(1, 2)
15:05<@DorpsGek>Yexo: Error: 'random' is not a defined function.
15:05*Prof_Frink lands on his head
15:06<TrueBrain>stupid bot
15:06<Yexo>@calc rand
15:06<@DorpsGek>Yexo: Error: 'rand' is not a defined function.
15:06<Chruker>heh who deleted the 3d rendering of the new map
15:06<TrueBrain>who added it?
15:07<Chruker>Zephyris, the last post in that thread
15:08<Yexo>that's not created by openttd
15:08<frosch123>[21:01] <Prof_Frink> Since when was Dorpy fair? <- sorry, TrueBrain, but you missed your chance
15:09<TrueBrain>frosch123: I know .. I am going soft :'(
15:09<TrueBrain>and I like Prof_Frink, that might have something to do with it
15:10<frosch123>@seen yorick
15:10<@DorpsGek>frosch123: yorick was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 59 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <yorick> documents/openttd
15:11-!-rhaeder [~quix0r@] has joined #openttd
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>since when did that stop you? :p
15:12<@peter1138>@seen bjarni
15:12<@DorpsGek>peter1138: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 14 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 12 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Belugas: there is no reason to write to PeterT. We already know he is unable to read anyway :P
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>lmao ;)
15:13-!-Narcissus [] has joined #openttd
15:14<@peter1138>sorry sir
15:16<@Belugas>no prob ;)
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15:41<edeca>Hrm, I get no bauxite sources in my FIRS game
15:41-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
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15:42<Yexo>edeca: you might want to ask again no andythenorth is here
15:42-!-lugo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:44<andythenorth>ask ask
15:44<andythenorth>I have nothing better to do :(
15:44<andythenorth>waiting in the office for a stupid printer to finish
15:45*TrueBrain gives andythenorth a flamethrower
15:45<TrueBrain>that should help
15:45<andythenorth>err....thanks :P
15:46<TrueBrain>always glad to help someone out of the fire
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15:49<xopek>so what can be done for performance network game? It is my break down under "Registration" on account of 'Could not load savegame ".
15:51<Yexo>can you ask again without an automatic translation? I have no idea what you're asking
15:51<andythenorth>yum yum the money problem
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15:52<xorkrus>my english is worse than google :-)
15:52-!-xorkrus is now known as xopek
15:53<@Belugas>you should really try to learn it, it's one of the most easiest language around
15:53<@Belugas>the other being Pascal...
15:53*Belugas runs away laughing
15:53<andythenorth>meh silly Belugas
15:53<Prof_Frink>Belugas: It certainly has the fewest rules to learn
15:53<Yexo>xopek: just try
15:53<Yexo>I'm sure you'll do better then the automatic translation
15:53<andythenorth>infrastructure is too cheap
15:54<andythenorth>but if we make it too expensive (with a grf) it's impossible to start the game
15:54<Yexo>to start with, does the problem have to do with a multiplayer game or with loading a singleplayer game?
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: i'm fairly certain that python is easier than pascal ;)
15:55<xopek>only multiplayer
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15:55<TrueBrain>Yexo: we walked with him over everything yesterday already .. so get you up to speed: Gentoo, zlib compiled, networkclient.tmp is a OTTZ, but he fails to load it, even when renaming to .sav
15:55<TrueBrain>I believe there we left off ;)
15:55<TrueBrain>oh, the error was that inflation failed
15:55<Yexo>thanks TrueBrain
15:56<Prof_Frink>That's because the economy's shafted.
15:58-!-xorkrus [~xopknet@] has joined #openttd
15:58<xorkrus>fail :(
15:59-!-xopek is now known as Guest298
15:59-!-xorkrus is now known as xopek
15:59<TrueBrain>Yexo: yeah, I thought, before you have go through that trouble again too ;) Damn .. I am starting to be a nice guy .. what went wrong :'(
15:59<@Rubidium>to much at the public beach?
15:59<TrueBrain>I think so
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16:01<Prof_Frink>Public House.
16:03*Belugas mumbles something about biting off the head of a python
16:05<xopek>oh. ok. will think problem in my proxy. and try to repair\correcting itself :-)
16:08<@Rubidium>xopek: anywhere where I can download that savegame?
16:09-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:13<welshdragon>i want to play Auto Seperation and ITIM
16:13<welshdragon>but that's going backwards :)
16:14*Belugas dances on his chair
16:15<TrueBrain>hmm .. I missed dancing classes tonight :(
16:15<TrueBrain>we learnt this most cool figure in the Samba .. hmm ..
16:15<TrueBrain>(well, not tonight obvious)
16:15<planetmaker>hm... USB2 is not the fastest... Since yesterday evening my photos are being backuped on my USB disk...
16:16<TrueBrain>get USB3
16:16<planetmaker>:-) old machine doesn't have it - and upgrading _that_ machine is not worth it
16:16<TrueBrain>you do know there are PCI slots, right? :p
16:17<planetmaker>I guess so. Especially as the case is open ;-)
16:17<TrueBrain>and there are plenty of cards for it ;)
16:19<@Belugas>Samba is such a cool one :)
16:19<@Belugas>i love the rythm, the sound, the moves... alll!
16:20<Xaroth>somebody forgot to feed Belugas his pills again
16:21<@Belugas>sorry, but we're warming up for the office's christams party tonigh
16:21<@Belugas>and yes, Samba is cool
16:21<@Belugas>but it's not the only thing i'm hooked on
16:22<@Belugas>hooked... belugas... whaoaoaoa!!!
16:22<TrueBrain>hooked on who? :p
16:22<TrueBrain>enjoy your christmas party!
16:24<@Belugas>a hook -> catching fish -> hooked belugas -> belugas on a hook... baaaa...
16:24<@Belugas>i'm hooked on you sweetheart!
16:25<TrueBrain>:$ Oeh!
16:25<TrueBrain>and I don't think such a plane fits in a fishing hook .. but sure, lets go with that ;)
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>you do know that belugas are not fish?
16:25<@Belugas>oh.. fine... now i'm all confused :S
16:26<@Belugas>yeah... it's a DOLPHIN
16:26<@Belugas>in fact... latin name: Delphinapterus Leucan
16:26-!-helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:27<@Belugas>White Dolphin Without a Wing
16:27<@Belugas>wing -> dorsal fin
16:27<andythenorth>stupid printer
16:27<andythenorth>I used to have inkjet that would do 20ppm. This laser is 90 mins for 60 pages
16:27-!-PeterT [] has joined #openttd
16:31<SmatZ>andythenorth: you wanted to say "90 seconds for 60 pages", right?
16:31<CIA-4>OpenTTD: yexo * r18518 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIOrder::AIOF_GOTO_NEAREST_DEPOT for goto nearest depot orders
16:31<SmatZ>my laser is about that fast...
16:31<andythenorth>I wanted to say 90s
16:31<SmatZ>ok :)
16:31<andythenorth>mine is not that fast
16:31<andythenorth>I said 90 mins cos it is :P
16:31<SmatZ>that hurts :-p
16:32<SmatZ>I bought laser because I wanted faster print
16:32<SmatZ>bad luck I would sat
16:32<andythenorth>don't buy HP 1515
16:32<SmatZ>ok :)
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16:35<xopek>Rubidium: my savegame? or what?
16:39<edeca>Damnit, andythenorth leaves as I get back
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16:43<@Rubidium>xopek: yes, the savegame that's failing
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16:48<xopek>Rubidium: this network_client.tmp which a create on connect to any server...
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16:56<@Rubidium>xopek: yes, that savegame
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17:00<welshdragon>i might get shot for
17:02<edeca>Am I correct to assume I cannot say "stay for 15 days _or_ until full" ?
17:03<planetmaker>I believe so, yes
17:04<planetmaker>welshdragon: why would the correct behaviour be to stop outside the stop?
17:04<CIA-4>OpenTTD: yexo * r18519 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.nut regression.txt): -Codechange: Improve regression tests for AIOrder
17:05-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
17:05<edeca>Ouch, one AI has 500 vehicles :)
17:06<thingwath>I agree with welshdragon and his bug :)
17:06<welshdragon>planetmaker: not outside
17:06<welshdragon>on the line
17:06<welshdragon>2009-12-16: A task closure has been requested. Reason for request: It's old, and the developers don't care
17:07<welshdragon>(fs #1136 :P)
17:07<@Rubidium>xopek: can't connect to your IPv6 address
17:09<welshdragon>who deleted my bug?
17:09<andythenorth>edeca: the bauxite mines aren't done in FIRS yet. So no bauxite :|
17:09<andythenorth>makes the aluminium chain a bit pointless
17:09-!-phalax [~phalax@] has joined #openttd
17:09<andythenorth>unless you can deliver a *lot* of scrap metal
17:09<xopek>em... my IPv6 address? i using ipv4... and - ipv4...
17:10<@Rubidium> 86145 IN AAAA 2001:470:8:257::5
17:11<@Rubidium>well, it also has an IPv6 address that isn't connected
17:12<@Rubidium>I've got the savegame though
17:12<@Rubidium>via IPv4
17:12<@Rubidium>I'm just notifying you that it doesn't work with IPv6
17:14<xopek>not know. i do not use it. in kazakhstan only entered ipv6... :-)
17:14<andythenorth>stupid printing
17:17<edeca>andythenorth: Ah, heh :)
17:17<edeca>andythenorth: No problems, thanks! Thought I was going mad
17:17<edeca>andythenorth: And thanks if it's you putting work into FIRS. I'm really enjoying it
17:17<andythenorth>np. feedback in the development thread is always useful
17:19<Yexo>welshdragon: you can see "closed by" if you look at the bug
17:19<welshdragon>Yexo: i noticed
17:19<Yexo>your bug report wasn't deleted, just closed
17:20<SmatZ>note it won't be backported to 0.7.5
17:20-!-Sionide is now known as Sionide|
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17:21<Sacro>any C++ gurus here?
17:21<@Rubidium>depends on the subject
17:21<planetmaker>like guru guru in "Asterix in America"?
17:21<Sacro>if you specify the type you are returning in the return statement is that valid?
17:21<Sacro>planetmaker: <3 asterix
17:21-!-Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:22<Sacro>return ObjectType foo;
17:22<deghosty>shouldn't u be retrnnig object?
17:22<SmatZ>how can that be valid?
17:22<Sacro>actually, i'll paste the lines
17:22-!-Rubix`` [~wrqwer@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:22<Sacro> Vector add(const Vector &rhs) const {
17:22<Sacro> return Vector result (rhs.x()+_x, rhs.y()+_y, rhs.z()+_z);
17:22<Sacro> }
17:23<Sacro>question 2
17:23<Sacro>line 32ish
17:23<@Rubidium>return Vector(...); ?
17:23<Yexo>we should let you do your own homework of course
17:24<Yexo>but the example you posted here is invalid
17:24<SpComb>that's syntax
17:24<Sacro>Yexo: this isn't my homework, this is a module i took last year
17:24<Sacro>this is the current years mock quiz
17:24<Sacro>i'm picking it apart to see if they're asking unanswerable questions again
17:24<Sacro>i know the sizeof(short) isn't answerable
17:24<SmatZ>D. Code section 2 generates a compiler error
17:24<SmatZ>the answer is clear
17:25<@Rubidium>just ask how many sheep there were on Noah's Ark
17:25<SmatZ>two of all species, male + female
17:26<SmatZ>must had been quite... full of sex there :-p
17:26<Chruker>HOw many of species which have no genders?
17:26<@Rubidium>Genisis 7.2: Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
17:26<@Rubidium>sheep are clean beasts
17:26<SmatZ>ok, umm...
17:27<SmatZ>that's one too much (or little)
17:27<TrueBrain>"C. The code will generate errors when compiled " <- what kind of answer is this? That can never be a valid answer
17:27<TrueBrain>either it generates errors WHILE compiling
17:27<TrueBrain>or WHILE running
17:27<@Rubidium>why? One female for every day and the seventh day the sheep go to church
17:27<TrueBrain>but in the state between, it doesn't magicly generate errors :(
17:27<TrueBrain>Sacro: your test sucks
17:28<Sacro>TrueBrain: yes, we complained last year and nobody seems to fix it
17:28<TrueBrain>I really wonder how that goes
17:28<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: *unless* the code triggers a bufferoverflow and it is actually executed
17:28<andythenorth>anything *interesting* happening?
17:28<SmatZ>Rubidium: okay :) I don't quite know that stuff, you know
17:28<andythenorth>anything better than watching a printer?
17:28<planetmaker>you can savely go to sleep, andythenorth ;-)
17:28<andythenorth>I bloody can't
17:28<andythenorth>stupid printer
17:28<SmatZ>andythenorth: there's nothing better than watching a printer!
17:29<andythenorth>maybe I should draw some pixels
17:29<andythenorth>stupid pixels
17:29<@Rubidium>SmatZ: neither do I... but Q.I. is quite interesting :) And it's a very good question to ask Jehovah's witnesses... if they answer it wrong you can send them away to read their book again
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17:29<planetmaker>Q.I ?
17:30<Sacro>Quite Interesting
17:30<andythenorth>Terkhen: any news on RV acceleration?
17:30<TrueBrain>Sacro: and indeed, C89 only defines that a short should contain -32768 to 32768. It doesn't say in what size it should be stored in memory
17:30<Sacro>Children require less gasoline than snow-blowers but are just as effective at snow removal
17:30<TrueBrain>you can debate the 'require' part in the question, which is a lower-bound, which is 16bit
17:30<TrueBrain>yet, stupid question
17:30<SmatZ>iirc, it doesn't even specify it has to be stored in "bits"
17:30<Sacro>sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) <= sizeof(long long)
17:30<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: I doubt that
17:31<TrueBrain>nope; just that it has to represent it
17:31<Sacro>is the only guarantee
17:31<TrueBrain>Sacro: not even that ;)
17:31<Sacro>this is C++ not C
17:31<TrueBrain>(talking about C89 btw, don't know about C++)
17:31<SmatZ>hmm C++ has longlong?
17:31<Sacro>not sure
17:31<Sacro>but I know integer types aren't sized in the spec
17:31<Sacro>float/double are
17:31<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: -32768 to 32767 I could've believed, but -32768 to 32768 definitely not (or they removed 0)
17:32<TrueBrain>Rubidium: typo
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17:32<TrueBrain>"C. Unsafe because the parameters (value, low and high) can be changed within the method and then alter the actual parameters in the calling code." <- wtf? You have the method in front of you. So what kind of answer is this?!
17:32<Sacro>Type short int (or simply short) is an integral type that is larger than or equal to the size of type char, and shorter than or equal to the size of type int.
17:33<Sacro>from MSDN
17:33<TrueBrain>You 'can' also cause a buffer overflow if you modify the method, and do all kind of weird shit, invalidating all of the above questions
17:33<TrueBrain>C89 only mention 'short' as follow:
17:33<TrueBrain> * minimum value for an object of type short int SHRT_MIN -32767
17:33<TrueBrain>* maximum value for an object of type short int SHRT_MAX +32767
17:34<Sacro>TrueBrain: C++ doesn't even mention sizes
17:34<Terkhen>andythenorth: not much, I'm happy with how RVs perform in slopes now, but I still have to increase the acceleration code performance as it is probably way slower than the one at trunk (I also need to measure the code speed)
17:34<planetmaker>It would be a nifty feature, Terkhen :-)
17:35<TrueBrain>Sacro: and the last question is completely insane (in respect to the others)
17:35<Terkhen>all HEQS vehicles besides the Camelback and the Fourtrac work now: these two are still getting 1 km/h when loaded in slopes
17:35<TrueBrain>4 of the 8 questions are 'broken' ... that should receive a something for that
17:35<Sacro>last q is covered
17:36<Sacro>in the module
17:36<Terkhen>planetmaker: thanks, I hope to have the time to finish it these holidays
17:37<planetmaker>The only point is: it's lot of work and most people / player won't appreciate it, I guess :-(
17:37<planetmaker>like "vehicles work. So what?"
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17:37<planetmaker>the more: kudos!
17:39<andythenorth>nah road vehicles are (slightly) broken. Large trucks should go slower up hills. I reckon players will get that :)
17:39<andythenorth>Terkhen: I will look at those vehicles, not this weekend, but probably in the holidays
17:39<planetmaker>andythenorth: I developed some prejudice agains common players ;-)
17:40<andythenorth>I was playtesting RV acceleration, but getting a lot of OpenTTD crashes.
17:40<andythenorth>I'm not sure if it was the nightly, RV acceleration, or a bad patch
17:40<Sacro>TrueBrain: i can see questions 2 and 5 being wrong, what others?
17:40<andythenorth>so I haven't reported it as I can't isolate the cause
17:41<Terkhen>hmmm,,, report them at the patch thread so I can try them
17:41<TrueBrain>Sacro: I named them above :p
17:41<@peter1138>my RV acceleration patch didn't crash
17:41<planetmaker>andythenorth: did you try with the RV patch only?
17:41<Terkhen>I'm going to upload an updated version anyways
17:41<TrueBrain>Sacro: 4, 5, 6 and 8
17:42<andythenorth>planetmaker: didn't try with RV patch only yet. My patch skills are very poor. I'm not sure how to revert to trunk correctly. Not a question for tonight though :P
17:42<Terkhen>but it is strange, I never had a crash related to the patch in all of my test games
17:42<TrueBrain>well, if you say 8 is acceptable, 3 out of 8 :p
17:42<Sacro>4? not 2?
17:42<planetmaker>andythenorth: the answer is simple, though: hg revert *
17:42<TrueBrain>2, answer D, sounds fine
17:42<Sacro>ah, but he reckons that the answer is B
17:42<andythenorth>planetmaker: I have an svn checkout of OpenTTD :|
17:42<TrueBrain>Sacro: his problem
17:42<planetmaker>svn revert *
17:43<TrueBrain>I have bigger problems with 4, 5 and 6
17:43<Sacro>Yeah well, the lecturer is a twat
17:43<Sacro>and head of the dept too
17:43<TrueBrain>4 and 6 because of the poorly worded english
17:43<andythenorth>Terkhen: the crashes usually report cargotype.cpp, I haven't looked in the crash logs though
17:43<andythenorth>I figured it was probably something I'd broken
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17:44<Terkhen>which revision?
17:44<andythenorth> r18381
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17:48<andythenorth>ah the printer finished
17:48<andythenorth>time for bed :D
17:48<Terkhen>I'll test the patch using some industry GRFs, then
17:49<Terkhen>good night andythenorth
17:49<andythenorth>I was using FIRS
17:49<Terkhen>okay, I'll start with that
17:49<andythenorth>if it helps, I can try and isolate the problem when I have more free time, I suspect it's just something bad I've done when patching
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18:09<Terkhen>good night
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18:49<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18520 /trunk/src/ (music/allegro_m.h music/extmidi.cpp openttd.cpp): -Fix [FS#3272]: allegro doesn't like to work with extmidi; it causes 'random' (looks like a racing condition in allegro) crashes when songs are stopped.
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20:36<PeterT>Hello Bryan
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20:38<Bryan>trying to think if i should trust the ttd registry settings its attempting the install is attempting to change
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20:39<Bryan>installing on win 7
20:39<PeterT>No, don't
20:40<PeterT>Are you installing OpenTTD?
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20:40<Bryan>well it depends on the original ttd?
20:40<PeterT>Yes, but you don't need to edit the registry settings for OTD
20:41<Bryan>it asks for a ttd directory during the installation
20:41<PeterT>So point it to where you've downloaded the files
20:41<PeterT>(the folder called "transport tycoon" or something like that)
20:42<Bryan>just point out an install folder?
20:42<PeterT>It works?
20:42<Bryan>trying, sec
20:44<Bryan>cannot continue without ttd location, i cant install ttd without changing registry settings apparently -_-
20:46<PeterT>You have downloaded the zip file from owen rudge's site, yes or no?
20:46<Bryan>or some shit
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20:48<PeterT>I gotta go
20:49<PeterT>Just make sure you unzip, then point OpenTTD to the directory called Transport Tycoon (within the main folder)
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23:53<terinjokes>sigh... i'm guessing asking for some help with odcctools is a bit pointless in here
---Logclosed Thu Dec 17 00:00:08 2009