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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-12-22

---Logopened Tue Dec 22 00:00:14 2009
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03:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18598 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3402]: also cancel the save-pause when loading a savegame as scenario
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04:59<planetmaker>hm... is there something like a "snow in temperate" switch or flag in OpenTTD?
05:00<Alberth>you're in christmas mood? :)
05:01<@Rubidium>yeah, in ttdpatch flags... it's always 0 though
05:01<planetmaker>I try to hack a newgrf with snow in temperate.
05:01<planetmaker>It's no problem to lower the snow line to 01. But it only shows in arctic...
05:01<planetmaker>Rubidium: yeah, ok. I found that flag. I just wondered whether it can be modified by *some* means
05:02<planetmaker>obviously not...
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: so what about using alpine instead?
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: abd the miniin had a "snow in temperate" patch
05:07<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think anyone ever updated that :p
05:07<Eddi|zuHause>and the snow thaws until christmas anyway
05:09<Alberth>why not make a santa claus home, and have a party at the arctic ?
05:10<planetmaker>Well, yes, sure :-) That's probably what we're going to do.
05:10<planetmaker>Still it needs lowering the snow line ;-)
05:20<Eddi|zuHause>that's simple, just remove the parts of alpine that define the modified snow line
05:20<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if it has a parameter
05:20<@Rubidium>or just replace all tiles with snowy tiles
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05:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18599 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix: Displaying selected orders of a competitor vehicle was broken, disable the selection.
05:29<Eddi|zuHause>what always annoys me: fields are destroyed even by light snow, instead it should show snowy fields
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05:32<planetmaker>replacing all tiles with snow seems easier... or like a revised alpine w/o the industry stuff
05:32<planetmaker>and re-using temperate tile sprites in arctic. easiest solution, I think
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05:39<Eddi|zuHause>like i said a few days ago, removing industries from alpine is simple
05:39<Eddi|zuHause>juat replace sprite 1160 with an unconditional jump to the end of the file
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05:40<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: certainly. But I may then not distribute the newgrf
05:40<planetmaker>But... needing it for the PublicServer, I certainly need that permission. So...
05:41<planetmaker>And it shouldn't be that hard to just do a simple sprite replacement... *should*
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06:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18600 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18599): Re-enable ctl+click to jump to competitor station.
06:15<kratt>ammler u here?
06:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18601 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use resize step of the order list panel widget for order line calculations.
06:24<kratt>can some1 give me example of NFO of a train
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06:56<Zuu>(no idea what you were talking about though :-p )
06:56<planetmaker>kratt: you had one yesterday already with the logic train.
06:57<planetmaker>and the TTDP newgrf wiki has another.
06:57<planetmaker>Boy, start to *read*!
06:57<planetmaker>and hello Zuu :-)
06:57<Zuu>hello pm
06:58<Zuu>going to eat food now though.
06:58*planetmaker , too :-)
07:04<kratt>grfcodec makes my thing to .bak
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07:37<kratt>i dont know where to add those speed thingys
07:37<kratt>13 * 7 00 00 01 01 16 12 FD
07:41<kratt>where do i need add the speed and weight
07:42<Alberth>read the docs, experiment
07:42<kratt>i read the docs
07:42<kratt>i just dont know where to add that thingy
07:43<Ammler>try to comment every single byte
07:47<kratt>it worked
07:47<kratt>it has wrong name
07:48<kratt>and it seems it is replacing SH125
07:48<Alberth>so perhaps you changed the wrong byte
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07:50<kratt>where i can change that vehicle ID
07:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18602 /trunk/src/ (texteff.cpp viewport.cpp viewport_func.h viewport_type.h):
07:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: unify the viewport sign and text effect drawing
07:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3394]: signs could occasionally glitch
07:52<kratt>However, if you're doing this for one of your files, you have to choose your own GRFID of course because 54 57 03 05 is reserved for the file we're making in this tutorial.
07:52<kratt>i need to change GRFID?
07:54<Alberth>yes, each NewGRF has its own unique ID
07:55<edeca>Hrm, what are you supposed to do when you have £180 million in the bank and no way to spend it :)
07:55<Alberth>leave it where it is :)
07:55<edeca>Sadly, I mean the OTTD bank!
07:55<@Rubidium>donate to the OpenTTD project
07:55<edeca>Heh heh
07:55<edeca>Rubidium: Do you take donations?
07:55<edeca>s/you/the project/
07:56<@Rubidium>yup, for the hosting costs
07:56<@Rubidium>which includes the compile farm
07:57<@Rubidium>or more "farm", cause it's just a bunch of virtual machines
07:57<edeca>Paypal to owen@owenrudge etc
07:57<Alberth>but for a few millions, we could setup a foundation to promote transport games or so :)
07:57<@Rubidium>Alberth: or just buy the rights to Transport Tycoon Deluxe :)
07:57<edeca>That paypal address is correct?
07:58<@Rubidium>it should be
07:58<edeca>Rubidium: Has anybody actually asked the original company if they care about it any more? I guess they don't if they are not suing :)
07:58<@Rubidium>they don't care enough to figure out who actually owns it
07:58<edeca>Merry Christmas OpenTTD project. Not a few million I'm afraid, but it should help
07:59<kratt>14 * 18 04 00 7F 01 "XLev5 'Gator' (Electric)" 00
07:59<kratt>this wont work
07:59<kratt>but it should change name
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08:12<edeca>Woop, I love it when the AI builds roads straight across my high speed line and runs ~20 busses along it
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08:34<Xaroth>free fireworks, provided by your friendly neighbourhood AI :)
08:35<Zuu>The drivers maybe want some excitment in their jobs. :-)
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08:39<edeca>Hrm, industry expiration in FIRS seems odd. They just disappear!
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08:49<edeca>Hi Belugas
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09:10<kratt>i got it working
09:10<kratt>but i got problem now
09:10<kratt>it wont take that .pcx i told him to take
09:11<Zuu>Hi Belugas
09:11<kratt>check this out
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09:11<kratt>i want to change it to double headed train
09:13<Ammler>renum before grfcodec
09:14<kratt>i renumed
09:14<kratt>no error
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09:15<kratt>i got the train working
09:15<kratt>but it is with wrong sprite
09:17<kratt>is that possible because missing action2
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09:21<planetmaker>quak :-)
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09:25*frosch123 ponders downgrading to ff 3.x
09:25<frosch123>well, < 3.5
09:28<planetmaker>hm... why?
09:29<frosch123>it freezes often for several seconds
09:30<planetmaker>hm... true. It does for me, too
09:30<frosch123>they blame hyperthreading (though i wonder how you can blame the cpu) and plugins (which i disabled)
09:30<planetmaker>But I don't recall... I thought it happend with 3.x irrespective of x
09:30<frosch123>for me it started with 3.5
09:31<planetmaker>more annoying is that the flash plugin is leaking like hell
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09:31<planetmaker>It's continuously eating more CPU, for certain pages using it.
09:31<planetmaker>just for having that page open in the browser
09:32<planetmaker>well... if it is a plugin. Didn't check really
09:34<kratt>do i run renum and save file, then encode
09:34<kratt>or renum, dont save, then encode
09:34<planetmaker>renum re-writes the file. No need for save
09:35<frosch123>you should save before renum
09:35<planetmaker>except you tell it to not overwrite. And of course what frosch sais
09:35<planetmaker>says? sais?
09:35<@peter1138>my new router... returned
09:41<Xaroth>uh oh
09:41<@Belugas>did not find the route to the router manufacturer?
09:42<@peter1138>via the retailer, yeah
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09:49<kratt>neeeed some help please
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09:51<Zuu>kratt: You could at least write down your question. Then maybe someone will help you if they know the answer.
09:54<kratt>i have 8 sprites
09:54<kratt>but it makes 14 sprites
09:55<kratt>is the queue wrong
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09:57<kratt>Warning: Found 14 more sprites than sprite 0 reports.:100%, Redundancy:100%
09:58<frosch123>maybe you encoded the wrong file
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10:29<edeca>Should articulated vehicles overtake other vehicles, like normal road vehicles do?
10:31<@Rubidium>no, I hate lorry drivers overtaking on the highway
10:32<edeca>Should they in the game? :)
10:34<Zuu>I don't mind lorry drivers that overtake.
10:35<Zuu>I do mind lorry drivers that do not care to have good tires on snow though.
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10:43<edeca>In OpenTTD, should articulated road vehicles overtake other road vehicles if they are slower?
10:45<Alberth>edeca: If I vote yes, will you make it happen?
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10:46<edeca>Alberth: Well that was my point, is it something that they should do already or something that they can't do?
10:46<edeca>I had noticed they weren't and didn't know if it was a bug or wishlist item
10:47<Alberth>afaik it is what they do at this moment.
10:48<Alberth>depending on your point of view, it is ok, a wish, or a bug.
10:48-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
10:48<edeca>OK, thank you.
10:51<Alberth>most likely, it is quite non-trivial to implement.
10:51<@Rubidium>ofcourse... if you would have searched by the tracker you would have had the answer
10:53<Alberth>that would be too easy :p
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11:02<edeca>Rubidium: I'll try that next time, apologies
11:12<@orudge>edeca: thanks for the donation :)
11:12<Xaroth>o/ orudge
11:25*Belugas is bored... but bored... so bored...
11:26<@Belugas>i can't code, i can't listen to music,i can't do a thing but waiting for the guy to tell me the amount ant transaction type. and give him the slip afterward
11:26<@Belugas>so .... boring...
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11:31<edeca>orudge: Welcome, it's CHristmas!
11:59<welshdragon>what's the record for the highest train climb?
11:59<welshdragon>i may well have beaten it
12:01<Alberth>Belugas: you have read all tt-forum?
12:01<pavel1269>why there would be such a dumb record?
12:02<Alberth>we have records for practically everything you can imagine
12:03<Alberth>and what's worse, there are also records for things you'd never imagine
12:03<planetmaker>Alberth: I guess he has a good and long-lasting memory. Probably his feminine side :-P
12:04<@Belugas>Alberth, yeah.. sadly
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12:05<Alberth>so not much to do but dream of free days at chrismas, I guess
12:05<@Belugas>yeah... 25, 26,26, 28
12:06<Alberth>we could have a useless discussion about regions in ottd
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12:07<Sacro>hmm, openttd makes pulseaudio go all crackly
12:08<Alberth>I believe that is a known issue, mentioned in the readme
12:08<Sacro>well fix it
12:09<planetmaker>read the readme, Sacro ;-)
12:09<Alberth>doing some code restructuring in stacked widgets atm
12:09<planetmaker>iirc it will tell you 'not our problem'
12:09<Sacro>'pulse' not found
12:10<planetmaker>then maybe the FAQ or whatever.
12:10<planetmaker>known bugs list
12:10<Alberth>reading != searching :p
12:10<Sacro>ah, fixed it
12:10<frosch123> <- easy as pie
12:10<Sacro>well, boded it
12:11<Sacro>but i stopped the crackles
12:11<Sacro>SDL_AUDIODRIVER=esd to the rescue
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12:12*Sacro is a genious
12:12<@orudge>a genius, perhaps?
12:13<frosch123>genius in what? starting with W ?
12:14<@Belugas>Alberth, i'd love to. But i can't (as you can see from the lags between interventions) sustain a normal conversation :(
12:15<Alberth>that's fine, then I can do coding + waiting for the compiler :)
12:16-!-lobstar is now known as lobster
12:17<Alberth>ok, is regions about having primary industry only at some locations, or is it bigger?
12:20<planetmaker>Regions are mainly about different base tiles and house newgrf usage :-)
12:22<Alberth>Right, now if only I understood what you just said :)
12:23<planetmaker>:-P You wanted a useless discussions about regions in OpenTTD...?
12:23<planetmaker>Thus I made a semi-randome statement concerning them.
12:23<Alberth>that's fine
12:24<Alberth>apparently I have a very different idea about what it is than you have.
12:24<planetmaker>oh. And town name grfs could be region-specific
12:24<edeca>planetmaker: So you could have an area of desert, an area of swamps etc?
12:24<planetmaker>edeca: that's what I'd like to see, yes
12:24<Alberth>I'd be interested in learning about your regions idea
12:24<planetmaker>Alberth: you know Yexo's regions repository?
12:25<planetmaker>Something along those lines. A tile(?) town(?) would belong to a certain region. Depending on the region it belongs to, different newgrf apply
12:25<Alberth>no, but I have seen a picture with japanese houses quite some time ago
12:25<planetmaker>Of course it cannot apply to vehicles...
12:26<edeca>planetmaker: Vehicles could be designed to work better in different climates
12:26<edeca>planetmaker: Or you could outfit them for certain regions
12:26<edeca>planetmaker: And they could break down more if you don't
12:26<planetmaker>well... that'd be too complicated IMO. At least to start with.
12:26<edeca>Yes, that's far too complicated I Agree
12:27<planetmaker>And I wouldn't really prefer that. Track is track and road is road... until there are rail and road types ;-)
12:27<Alberth>buses would come to mind :) they'll have to turn around at the region border
12:27<planetmaker>Alberth: I wouldn't go that far... I'd leave that up to the player. I mean... I can cross regions w/o changing the mode of transportation. Just hit the road and done
12:27<planetmaker>Mostly I consider it eye candy.
12:28<edeca>planetmaker: I wouldn't like it either, I was just talking nonsense
12:28<planetmaker>It'd become more complicated, if it would also have an influence on the industries
12:28<planetmaker>But it'd allow something like a Europe scenario, reaching from the North cape to Sicily
12:28<Ammler>wwottdgd/1 :-)
12:28<edeca>On a 4096x4096 map :P
12:29<planetmaker>With arctic in the North and Swedish houses, temperate in the middle and maybe default houses and tropical stuff in the South and... Dunno-whatever-houses
12:29<Alberth>I was thinking more along the lines of limiting vertain types of industry to some parts of the map
12:29<planetmaker>Would make for interesting scenarios, if you'd assigne regions to different players or so.
12:30<planetmaker>Alberth: well... I'd consider that in the scope of newgrfs, not of OpenTTD itself.
12:30<Alberth>good point
12:30<planetmaker>A newgrf might then query the base tile type, though.
12:30<planetmaker>And it would effictively result in the same
12:31<planetmaker>Like: build on desert, close to the shore. Build in temperate near mountain or so. That can (mostly) be done already
12:31<planetmaker>"near mountain" might be difficult, but I haven't looked into the placement codes of industries so far.
12:32<planetmaker>What *might* be interesting are to define then region properties like "mountanous", "shore", "desert" or alike - a bit beyond the current climate differences.
12:33<planetmaker>If that'd be exposed to newgrfs - yes, that'd might make for interesting placement of mines, say, preferentially in the mountains, refineries near the coast (as opposed to the map border or so)
12:33<Alberth>so what is a base tile type? is that like the water tile, or coast tile?
12:33<planetmaker>Well... I'd consider it for now the climate bits of the map array
12:33<frosch123>there are three tropic zones in subtropic
12:34<planetmaker>and water tile, coast tile, that's the more detailed information which need not be touched, I think, for this purpose.
12:34<planetmaker>frosch123: yes. But they all make sense to be distinct.
12:34<planetmaker>and would make sense to be distinct in a regional concept.
12:34<planetmaker>so... a bit more than "climate". You're right.
12:34<frosch123>well, desert is far from water, and rainforest is somewhat hilly iirc
12:35<planetmaker>But, those are the same bits, or do I err?
12:35<frosch123>one could define similiar regions for other climates
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12:35<planetmaker>frosch123: yes, exactly :-)
12:35<frosch123>the fourth zone is already defines as snowy
12:36<planetmaker>snowy desert :-)
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12:39<SpComb^>George: ping
12:39<SpComb^>silly idlers
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12:43<planetmaker>SpComb^: you could use it by asking the question in the same line you highlight him...
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12:43<planetmaker>and then he might respond when he's online...
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12:46<SpComb^>but wow, OpenTTD works surprisingly well when played over GPRS/flaky-EDGE
12:49<@orudge>I remember the days when I would play OpenTTD over 56K!
12:49<@orudge>apart from the Internet being disconnected every 2 hours, it generally worked quite well
12:49<SpComb^>I'm sure it would work ever better if I had a stable EDGE connection
12:50<SpComb^>but it seems difficult to find one
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12:51<kratt>i want to ask how many action there must be to .grf to work
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12:52<@Belugas>if i remember correctly, 2
12:53<@Belugas>7 and 8
12:55<+glx>only 8 is required
12:56<planetmaker>one example is our advertising newgrf which gives the version of our grfpack used. But nothing else
12:56<Alberth>Belugas: regions moved into an unexpected direction, and took off with PM explaining it all :)
12:57<kratt>lets say i want to get a grf from trg1
12:57<kratt>i got the grf i want, but when encodeing, it says it has 14 sprites instead of 8
12:57<kratt>what causes that
12:58<planetmaker>I don't see an error in what you posted in the forums, pasted here before and asked here before
12:58<planetmaker>fr0sch's guess that you grfcodec the wrong file is still gone unanswered.
12:59<@Belugas>Alberthm that's nice to know :)
12:59<planetmaker>I basically outlined 2 years of work :-P
12:59<@Belugas>i had a vision of regions, yexo had another one. but he went further then me, since i've got only vaporware
12:59<kratt>its not in a wrong file
13:00<@Belugas>while yexo has an active git repo
13:00<kratt>im doing it like in tutorial in wiki
13:00<kratt>getting the sprites
13:00<Alberth>And haven't got to the point of having vaporware :)
13:01<Alberth>planetmaker: that didn't stop me before :p
13:01<planetmaker>:-) And it's very much appreciated.
13:01<Alberth>s/And/And I/
13:01<planetmaker>I just wanted to stall the comment like "you don't know for how much you ask" or that way ;-)
13:01<kratt>if i have double headed train
13:02<planetmaker>kratt: try a single headed first.
13:02<kratt>i got single headed to work
13:02<kratt>but 2 headed is not working
13:02<kratt>im using sprites 3001-3008
13:03<planetmaker>Belugas: what was your vision of regions?
13:03<Alberth>I probably don't, much like with the gui thing. On the other hand, I am in no hurry to finish :)
13:03<kratt>do i need to set Action0 to set that train is double headed
13:03<planetmaker>well, Alberth it's for the joy of doing it... that's important, I think.
13:03<Alberth>exactly :)
13:04<Alberth>although some people think you are crazy when you say you spent your summer holiday doing code refactoring :D
13:04<planetmaker>hehe :-)
13:05<planetmaker>But then other people do completely different things which are crazy in their own kind, too
13:05<planetmaker>it's a matter of perspective, I guess
13:06<planetmaker>like two weeks on caffeine, trying to teach teens something about astronomy... teaching at the day, star gazing in the night. No time for sleep :-P
13:06<Alberth>sounds like fun :)
13:06<planetmaker>it is :-)
13:07<planetmaker>kratt: have a look at the source of the 2cc trainset. It might have that problem solved *somewhere*
13:07<Alberth>hmm, with hg, patch-files end up in the weirdest places :)
13:08<planetmaker>hu? How so...?
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13:08<Alberth>I have one in my bin folder
13:08<planetmaker>that is indeed *very* strange
13:08<planetmaker>I'd say they only appear where you put them, though ;-)
13:09<Alberth>one of the nice things of hg is that you can type hg commands at any point in the working dir, and the result is always the same. With svn you can do most things only in the root.
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13:11<kratt>ill try to decode that grf
13:11<planetmaker>yup, indeed. I basically switched as it allows me to work offline... and I don't need to connect to the server for each revision change
13:11<planetmaker>kratt: I said source. Not a de-compiled version
13:11<planetmaker>You'll fail surely to understand the latter
13:12<Alberth>and every now and then I use the wrong shell for doing hg things :)
13:12<planetmaker>I have even troubles to understand some parts of the commented source. Even as I wrote or rather re-wrote a few pieces of it.
13:13<planetmaker>he, you use different shells?
13:13<planetmaker>That sounds... confusing to me :-)
13:13<Alberth>no, one at the root (for 'make'), one at 'src' (for 'gvim file'), and one at bin (for './openttd')
13:14<@Belugas>planetmaker : it is more related to geological regions, more than climatic ones. The thing is, coal mines should be confined in a certain area, and diamond should be too, since they are kinda closely related.
13:14<Alberth>switching shells is easier than typing cd all the time
13:14<planetmaker>Belugas: well... mostly I consider industry placement a newgrf thing :-) - it is after all already implemented there.
13:15<planetmaker>Alberth: you just meant different windows? Ok, then I got it wrong. I surely do that, too
13:15<@Belugas>it all came when i wanted to define an easier way for grfs to know if they are near water or not...
13:15<@Belugas>planetmaker, i don't think grf is related to regions
13:15<@Belugas>youi could have industries withouth grfs using regions
13:15<@Belugas>after all, it's just another method of placement
13:15<planetmaker>Belugas: yes, that'd be nice. But IMO it could be a tiny extension of the climate bits. Similar to how destert / rain forest is defined in tropical
13:16<planetmaker>And yes, grfs related to region would really be nice :-)
13:16<@Belugas>i don't see the relationship with climates
13:16<planetmaker>same thing, just a bit finer grained
13:16<@Belugas>linking then would just ruin the benefits
13:16<planetmaker>not really.
13:16<planetmaker>you could have temperate mountainous. temperate plains, temperate shores
13:16<planetmaker>voila, there you go
13:17<planetmaker>and it'd even make sense to apply different ground tiles, depending on the region definition
13:17<@Belugas>well... i think i know what you have in mind. not the same thing as me
13:17<@Belugas>i was far more concerned about the unerground than the upperground
13:17<planetmaker>he... :-) I think yours is just a sub-set of my idea :-P
13:17<planetmaker>But then I have the feeling that I might have not quite understood your idea
13:17<@Belugas>after all, the upperground is just modeled by erosion and stuff, while underground is the actual basement of country, and therefor is less sensible to changes
13:18<@Belugas>no, in deed... in such a few words, we might not get a clean idea of each other's thoughs
13:18*Alberth is sure he didn't understand what PM proposes :)
13:19<Alberth>but the discussion is interesting nonetheless
13:19<planetmaker>well... just *some* means to make grfs dependent on regions.
13:20<planetmaker>The details on the *how* to... oh well... I might have some idea, but it's not necessarily based on the best of knowledge of the internals around in this channel
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13:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18603 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt music_gui.cpp strings.cpp strings_type.h): -Codechange: move getting the song name to music_gui.cpp
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r18604 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
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14:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18605 /trunk/src/ (company_gui.cpp order_gui.cpp widget.cpp): -Codechange: Coding style fixes, prevent useless calls to UpdateWidgetSize().
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15:01<wito>Anyone here familiar with ECS?
15:02<@Belugas>some, i'm sure
15:02<wito>I'm having a problem where the scenario editor quite simply refuses to let me build a bank
15:02<wito>ECS bank, that is
15:02<wito>town size; check
15:02<wito>clicked on a house; check
15:02<wito>inside Tz0, check
15:03<wito>No nearby goldmines, check
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15:06<@Belugas>"You have a problem With ECS" thread in forum checked?
15:08<wito>Checked; check
15:08<wito>and I've spent about half an hour googling it
15:08<wito>but I have also been able to determine that it seems to be a newgrf conflict
15:09<@Belugas>which is way more than the usual users...
15:10<@Belugas>you just do not know which grfs are conflicting
15:10<@Belugas>best way to go: remove all but ecs and retry
15:10<wito>well, that works
15:10<wito>that's how I figured out it was a grf conflict. :p
15:11<planetmaker>or asked differently: what other newgrfs do you have?
15:11<wito>I'm suspecting the suburban renewal kit
15:12<planetmaker> I would wonder, if sub-urban did anything with industry...
15:12<wito>suburban renewal houses
15:12<@Belugas>have you tried it all alone?
15:12<planetmaker>oh, yes. suburban renewal I understood ;-)
15:13<planetmaker>and just suburban and ECS
15:13<planetmaker>trial & error is the "usual" way to test... we cannot do much better :-)
15:14<@Belugas>well... yes... we could run in debug mode...
15:14<planetmaker>except knowledge... which would be gained from such experience.
15:14<@Belugas>but.. hey... that's not somehting i can do right now :S
15:14<planetmaker>well... but debuging is kinda "trying", too :-)
15:14<@Belugas>just not blind trying
15:14<planetmaker>me neither... too tired. I guess I'll just watch another episode of big bang theory and hit the couch
15:16<wito>well, I have it down to three
15:19<planetmaker>do tell :-)
15:20<wito>I have it down to one
15:20<wito>if any house sets are loaded before ECS Town, they cause the blocking
15:22<wito>or so, at least, it would seem
15:22<@Belugas>George is quite a coder. God knows what was his idea behind that
15:23<@Belugas>if evr he is aware of it..
15:24<wito>well, the bank has to be built on a building, yeah?
15:24<wito>and grfs need to be above grfs that want to be aware of them
15:25<wito>so it stands to reason that the Town grf doesn't see later loaded building sets as houses, or something
15:25<@Belugas>Ask George ;)
15:25<@Belugas>I can't speak on his behalf
15:26<wito>and it seems it refuses to work reliably
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15:35<wito>oh well, got it working well enough
15:35<wito>thanks for your help, anyways. :)
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15:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18606 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: Introduce several forms of zero-size stacked display planes.
15:45<George>wito: I can't reproduce your problem in R 18545
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15:45<George>Please PM me more information about the problem
15:46<George>The scenarion, where you can't build it
15:46<wito>As I see it, houses from foreign housing sets are not treated as houses
15:46<George>and the list of GRFs
15:46<wito>so banks aren't allowed to be built on top of them
15:46<George>I can build it here
15:47<wito>yes, some sets allow it, some don't
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15:47<George>I tried TTRS, swedish houses
15:47<wito>The ones I've had problems with are the SRH, NACS, ECSH
15:47<George>I found and dounloaded
15:48<wito>that'd be the one
15:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18607 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Fix (r18583): Preserve window width when shading.
15:57<kratt>what action do i need to use to make new vehicle
15:57<kratt>not to replace it
15:58<frosch123>use a vehicle id larger than those of original engines
15:58<George>I do not have any code in ECS that should control the set
15:58<kratt>are you sure frosch`?
15:59<kratt>do i need add action1 also then?
15:59<George>So, it shold be reported as a bug
15:59<frosch123>if you want to add a *new* vehicle, you have to provde everything, all properties, all graphics
16:00<frosch123>if you want to duplicate an old vehicle, you have to load some set like "old wagons, new cargos" and enable "multiple newgrf engine sets" in advanced settings
16:00<George>wito: please report at
16:01<wito>George: Wouldn't it be an ECS bug, not an OTTD bug?
16:01<edeca>Somewhere on the wiki is a diagram of the basic 4 track main line, does anybody know where it is?
16:02<wito>there might be similar problems with other housing sets;
16:02<wito>specifically ECSH
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16:04<frosch123>i assume it is the old issue with houses disallowing destruction when trying to fund an industry, which was fixed ingame, but might not work in SE
16:16<frosch123>sometimes the SE tries to remove houses as OWNER_TOWN, sometimes as OWNER_NONE. Only the latter may remove protected houses.
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16:23<PeterT>Are there multiple ways to compile on Linux?
16:23<PeterT>Other than the simple 'open terminal'
16:23<PeterT>'type commands'
16:23<PeterT>Some kind of GUI? Like MSVC on Windows?
16:23<Alberth>have a script
16:23<PeterT>Ah yes
16:24<edeca>There aren't many ready packaged GUIs
16:24<edeca>VMware does it fairly well in my opinion
16:24<PeterT>What would the script contain, though?
16:24<edeca>Exactly the same commands you would type :)
16:24<PeterT>"./configure && make"
16:24<PeterT>then run that?
16:24<Alberth>script is much better, you can call it from other scripts
16:24<edeca>With some error checking, of course
16:25<PeterT>Alberth: Thanks for fixing up my wiki page
16:25<thingwath>There is CMake-gui. I guess that a tool for autoconf & lookalike would look almost same.
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16:26<Alberth>PeterT yw
16:26<Alberth>PeterT: my 'update hg repo's and view + re-compile new version:
16:27<Alberth>thingwath: gui is bad, you cannot automate clicking
16:27<thingwath>Well, you can. Just emulate X events.
16:28<PeterT>Alberth: Interesting
16:28<PeterT>Why do you use HG Trunk?
16:28<Alberth>hg_trunk is my 'master' local hg copy from which I clone branches.
16:28<frosch123>wito, george: <- looks intentional
16:29<Alberth>'play' is a clean copy from hg_trunk with a ready-to-play binary for testing purposes
16:30<Alberth>I also have a handful other clones for development, but I update them manually
16:30<thingwath>And, honestly, I like cmake-gui, I can set everything for configure much easily, typing configure --help and then scrolling back and forward and copying parameters is boring. :)
16:30*PeterT switches to Windows
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16:30<thingwath>The only problem, of course: it works only with cmake. Not autoconf. :)
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>how dare he!
16:31<kratt>can somebody say why i cant see my grf in grf menu
16:32<edeca>Because you have you eyes closed?
16:32<edeca>Seriously, that's a bit vague :)
16:32<_ln>okay, sure: "why i cant see my grf in grf menu"
16:32<Alberth>thingwath: I do that one time, namely the first time when I write a 3 line script './doit'
16:32<edeca>_ln: Heh, you win
16:32<Alberth>after that I can use ./doit faster than you can start the gui :p
16:33<edeca>kratt: Did you just create the grf? Did you copy it? Download it?
16:33<thingwath>I also run that gui only once.
16:33<thingwath>Or when I want to change something.
16:35<kratt>no i created it
16:35<kratt>no errors in renum
16:35<kratt>but it wont show up in newgrf menu
16:35<edeca>You copied it to the data directory?
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16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18608 /trunk/ (22 files in 9 dirs): -Change: add the concept of music sets
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16:43<kratt>yes i copied to the data
16:43<kratt>i post
16:44<kratt>maybe im doing action1 wrong
16:46<kratt>very intresting but that wont help me
16:47<Alberth>it was not for you
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16:48<PeterT>Thanks Alberth
16:48<PeterT>Perhpas a new channel dedicated to GRF Coding is in order?
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16:49<Alberth>don't know, perhaps it already exists
16:50<Alberth>on the other hand, he is welcome here as well, it is more on topic than many other discussions :p
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17:40<kratt>can somebody code a nfo for me?
17:40<DaleStan>Can? Yes. Will? Depends on how much you're paying.
17:43<kratt>im paying you diamonds and gold
17:43<lobster>Lobster Radio:
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17:45<kratt>so what you think
17:45<kratt>i just need easy stuff
17:46<kratt>you can make it with 4-10 minutes or less
17:46<Zuu>You have to wait until someone offers you help.
17:46<Zuu>Beging to no end doesn't really help.
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18:24<Terkhen>good night
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18:27*lobster reminds this channel of
18:28<welshdragon>fucking noise pollution won't let me build an airport
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19:29<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... something's not right
19:30<Eddi|zuHause2>ah... forgot setting the display variable in crontab...
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20:16<welshdragon>24 hours left to vote in the 2009 Unofficial TT-Forums Awards!
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21:45<PeterT>Do you guys like the completely re-done MSVC Page?
21:47<terinjokes>AHHH! WHY?
21:48<PeterT>Better info
21:48<PeterT>Tutorials on using SVN and such
21:48<PeterT>and make bundle
21:48<terinjokes>PeterT: why MSVC?
21:48<PeterT>What do you mean 'why'?
21:48<PeterT>Because MSVC is a great compiler?
21:50*terinjokes hides behind a wall of abstraction
21:51<PeterT>It's soooo much better than GCC
21:51<PeterT>and to know that you must actually test both
21:51<terinjokes>PeterT: i'll agree with that statemnt
21:51<PeterT>Do you use Linux or some other OS than windows?
21:51<terinjokes>PeterT: *but* I still stand behind the GCC because of what it stands for
21:52<PeterT>What does it stand for, exactly?
21:52<terinjokes>PeterT: I'm using Win7 Ultimate as we speak
21:52<PeterT>terinjokes: Ah
21:52<terinjokes>"GNU C Compiler" probably
21:52<PeterT>Oh, I thought you meant it differently
21:52*PeterT neverminds
21:52<terinjokes>i did
21:54<Eddi|zuHause>i should make my own c compiler somewhen
21:54<PeterT>I'd use it...
21:54<terinjokes>i code for triple-OS support in the native windowing environment with C on linux... one can tell mingw (aka gcc) isn't really optimized for Windows (or, I have setting wrong, creating large binaries, or likely, both)
22:05<terinjokes>(that's actually why I'm here)
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23:52<terinjokes>Eddi|zuHause: you should write it in brainfuck inturpeted in Java (i know my spelling sucks...)
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 23 00:00:15 2009