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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-12-30

---Logopened Wed Dec 30 00:00:19 2009
00:10<PeterT>Night, #openttd
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03:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: * r18663 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp:
03:04<@peter1138>is that it?
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03:10<Alberth>apparently, services are not optimal atm. hg and wiki appear to be down for me.
03:11<Alberth>-Codechange (r1): Remove unused _smallmap_vegetation_andor colour masks.
03:22<roboboy>is it possible to compile OpenTTD in dedicated mode for windows?
03:22*Alberth guesses it is
03:26<Alberth>I don't think it does anything special for windows though, but I don't exactly know.
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03:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18664 /: -Fix [FS#3449]: Unshade shaded finances window when toggling size.
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03:45<Alberth>interesting path :p
03:56<Muxy>Kiss, where to report translation bugs ?
03:56<Muxy>or translation change sugestion
03:59<Alberth>afaik we don't have a place for those other than logging in into the translator system, and fixing the problem
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04:01<Muxy>well, i need to find a french translator
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04:46<planetmaker>Muxy: _become_ a translator
04:53<edeca>Muxy: Sign up, use the website to do it
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05:02<Muxy>planetmaker: yeap i have an account
05:02<Muxy>but i need to be an editor
05:02<planetmaker>well, yes. Apply as translator
05:02<planetmaker>then you'll be made an editor
05:03<Muxy>and will put lot of kiss in translation
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05:03*Muxy sends a mail to translator...
05:04<@peter1138>urgh, mx44's gui is... urgh
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05:07<planetmaker>it's sometimes a good idea to discuss certain changes with the other translators sometimes, though, Muxy
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05:07<Muxy>yes i'm aware of this
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05:08<planetmaker>the German translators made their own thread in the forums which is revived from time to time... but it depends upon the number of people who give input
05:09<Terkhen>good morning
05:09<Muxy>German people is know to be well organized :)
05:09<Alberth>s/is/are/ :)
05:10<Muxy>people : singular, event there's a lot inthere
05:10<Muxy>or people is plural, well english lessons are too far away
05:12<@peter1138>and you want to translate? ;)
05:12<Muxy>hum, just want to fix a string for the moment, but planetmaker said i should apply to be editor
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06:18<dihedral>... how many people download openttd for os/2?
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06:30<Xaroth>but that includes limping timmy.
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06:34<jonty-comp>I know at least one person who actively uses OS2
06:34<jonty-comp>granted, he doesn't play openttd
06:34<jonty-comp>but still
06:36<__ln>he should
06:39<jonty-comp>apparently SNCF ticket machines run/ran OS/2!
06:39<jonty-comp>a perfect place to put openttd
06:40<__ln>also TrenItalia's ticket machines run/ran OS/2 (or eComStation).
06:41*roboboy wonders how to get msvc++ to compile dedicated openttd
06:42<roboboy>ive compiled a standard gui version following that
06:42<jonty-comp>oh, dedicated
06:43<jonty-comp>can't you just run the normal app with -D?
06:43<roboboy>the linux way is on the forums but msvc++ doesnt use make and configure
06:43<jonty-comp>you only compile a special dedicated build on servers because then it doesn't build all the GUI stuff I think
06:43<roboboy>I could
06:44<roboboy>brb hopefuly
06:47<roboboy>well ive asked on the forums
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09:10<Hirundo>What is the value of _local_company for a non-dedicated network server? always 0?
09:12<@Rubidium>depends what company the player at the server has joined
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>i thought the server automatically joins company 0 (like in single player)
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>at least that was how it worked 3 years ago ;)
09:13<Hirundo>It did, but then I joined company 2 using the console
09:13<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but you can change company
09:14<Hirundo>But according to my debugger, _local_company is 0 :S
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>i don't actually do multiplayer very often ;)
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09:19<Eddi|zuHause>am i the only person who wonders why nobody ever complained about the name "fickzoo"?
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: your town cargo patch seems to have trailing whitespace
09:21<@peter1138>^ that'll teach you
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: fonsinchens cargodist repository
09:23<@peter1138>okay, never looked at it
09:25<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: must have missed it while fighting with the tabs for indentation :P
09:25<planetmaker> <-- any thoughts on that?
09:26<@peter1138>a url
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09:27<SpComb^>viewtopic.php and a post ID?
09:27<planetmaker>hmpf :P
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>i'm always tempted to say "an url"
09:28<planetmaker>I should have know this reaction ;-)
09:28<PeterT>what do those parameters do, that you've inserted?
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: so why not simply make a bug report?
09:29<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, url begins with a y sound ;)
09:29<@peter1138>anyone who pronounces it 'earl' is wrong
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: not when i pronunce it
09:29<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: yes, I could :-) Or I could adjust the specs. Dunno which is wrong :-)
09:30<Hirundo>It seems if you save and reload a game as network server playing as company 2, client_playas is set to company 2 while _local_company is set to 0
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>for me an "u" ist just an "u", not a "ju"
09:30<@Belugas>ho... it's a chess board...
09:30<@peter1138>it's not a j sound either!
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: test it in ttdpatch?
09:31<planetmaker>yes. But I don't have it ;-)
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: /ju:/?
09:33<Elessar>jonty-comp: SNCF ticket machines ran OS/2, I think. I recently saw one saying « [Windows logo] It is now safe to turn off your computer. »
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>all such computers i know run windows... it's a shame...
09:34<jonty-comp>Elessar: hehe
09:34<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: do you have TTDP?
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>but my wine is currently compiling
09:34<planetmaker> <-- could you do a quick test, please?
09:35<planetmaker>(it's the compiled newgrf)
09:35<Elessar>jonty-comp: But it would be so nice to hack one so that it offers OpenTTD…
09:35<jonty-comp>Eddi|zuHause: I hope you either have many cores, or a long time :p
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>i have grown patient over the years :p
09:35<planetmaker>it needs TTDP > ~r1560
09:35<jonty-comp>Eddi|zuHause: just think of the possibilities, you could integrate ticket booking with an openttd map of the rail network :D
09:36<@peter1138>Elessar, woudn't that then be a windows machine, rather than OS/2 ?
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>it says ""
09:37<Elessar>peter1138: Yes, that is why I was insisting on the preterit form: they *ran* on OS/2.
09:37<planetmaker>should suffice. There's only one version check...
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>but... need to wait for wine
09:37<planetmaker>well, no rush. But the result will be interesting :-)
09:38<planetmaker>And possibly mean more work :S
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>you could just copy the line from alpine, or ecs, or similar...
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>canset probably has one, too
09:39<planetmaker>Well. But do they allow adjustment of both, height level and amplitude?
09:39<planetmaker>I don't think so
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>do you use action 6 for that?
09:40<planetmaker>It's dragging quite a bit for the sake of the fact that I thought "it's just a few lines" which I would need to change... :-) Alas, will be nice, if it works. Yes, action6
09:40<planetmaker>One whopping big one ;-)
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>i can imagine ;)(
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>the snow line table is 12*32 byte?
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10:22<PeterT>anybody use YChat?
10:23<Elessar>YChat? What is that?
10:23<PeterT>Do you have Perl installed?
10:24<PeterT>ah, i need some help with that
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>Elessar: somebody compiled xchat and decided that it should be called differently
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10:26<Elessar>Any website about it?
10:28<ashb>if you wan perl on windows i recommend over active state
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11:15<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i'm not sure if i forgot any parameters, but in ttdpatch it looks really fishy...
11:16<planetmaker>what does it look like?
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: like everything is snow, except the shores and the trees
11:16<planetmaker>well, it accepts two parameters, but default is param0=0 and param1=6, thus snow height varying between 0 and 6
11:16<planetmaker>yes, that's intended in January
11:17<planetmaker>the trees... well, not. They should be snowy, too
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>when is the change supposed to happen?
11:17<planetmaker>every month one level
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11:20<Eddi|zuHause>it also says the snowy tiles are "grass"
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11:21<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: hm... how does it look like with arctic climate? I guess it doesn't then...
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11:22<Eddi|zuHause>looks the same in both arctic and temperate
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11:23<planetmaker>Well, I don't do tile replacement. I just change the snow line height. Which *should* in principle work. If TTDP reports wrongly, I would consider it a fault of it...
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it's a bug in my ancient version of ttdpatch...
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, there's no visible changes in snow line over the years
11:25<planetmaker>oh, there isn't? Have you set any parameters? If you set them to the same value, it doesn't change
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't set any parameters
11:26<planetmaker>hm, yes, you said so.
11:28<planetmaker>anyway, Thanks for testing it. Now what? Disable for TTDP? Or just don't worry about it...
11:28<planetmaker>Or spend lots of time for something I don't play...
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>hm... how does one set parameters in ttdpatch? either i do it wrong, or they don't have an effect either
11:29<planetmaker>I think in the cfg file
11:29<roboboy>yeah somehow
11:29<planetmaker>blubber.grf= 2 8
11:29<planetmaker>or like that
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, "like that" is the exact problem
11:30<roboboy>no = sign
11:30<planetmaker>I *think* the same way as in the OpenTTD cfg:
11:30<planetmaker>snowlinemod-nightly/snowlinemod.grf = 2 14
11:31<planetmaker>ah, leave out the tar filename, of course ;-)
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, no version i tried changed anything
11:31<roboboy> has an example
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11:31<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you try in arctic climate?
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that's one of the versions i tried
11:32<planetmaker>or in temperate?
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11:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: in both
11:32<planetmaker>hm, ok. Then the snowintemperate won't have influence either...
11:32<planetmaker>Maybe I should ask again in the forums :-)
11:33<planetmaker>But meanwhile I have a kind of fortnightly version here
11:33<planetmaker>blowing up the tiny newgrf to 160 sprites
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11:34<planetmaker>Hm, maybe TTDP cannot handle parameters up to 20 or so (which I use internally)
11:36<planetmaker>Anyway, thanks a lot, Eddi|zuHause
11:37<planetmaker>I'm kinda puzzled and don't know why...
11:38<planetmaker>Oh, wait, Eddi|zuHause : I just see it now: I set the snow line height to a too low value
11:38<planetmaker>by default
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11:39<planetmaker>the wiki tells I should not go below 0x10h (= lv. 2). But I chose 0x0.
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11:39<planetmaker>could you try with 3 and 9 maybe (if you didn't already chose a param combination with values only >=2)
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11:40<planetmaker>so, openttd is nice about that, TTDP probably not
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>i tried 4 and 11
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11:48<planetmaker>hm, ok. thx
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>the snow line doesn't seem to change in openttd either
11:51<planetmaker>what do I do and you not?
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>hm... sometimes i simply do not understand xkcd
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12:07<planetmaker>hm... looks like I attached there the wrong grf version doh... I should commit more often to avoid confusion :-S
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12:16<Mks>is there anyway to calculate how much HP an loco needs to pull x amount of cargo?
12:19<@peter1138>you need a qualifier on that
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>Mks: 1Hp is enough for any amount of cargo. the question is if you are getting to a sensible amount of speed that way
12:20<Mks>well I mean to be able to maintain somewhat speed even on hills
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>and what "speed" is is different for passengers or freight
12:21<planetmaker>depends upon the freight weight multiplier (or however that is called)
12:21<Mks>with a x4 multiplier
12:22<Mks>if you transport 208tons thats x 4 so 832 ton you pull?
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>800t is not particularly heavy for a coal train
12:23<Mks>if you wish to maintain maximum speed in this case 72km/h
12:23<Mks>how much traction or HP do I need to be able to do that?
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>Mks: F=P/v, so you have to calculate how much friction the train generates
12:24<Mks>how do you calculate how much friction a train generate?
12:25<Terkhen>is there a way to force OpenTTD to exit after a certain number of ticks?
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12:27<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: with the null video driver, i believe
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>-v null:<ticks> or something
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>Mks: anyway, the E94 had a power of 3000kW, and was designed to pull 2000t at 85km/h on flat, 1600t at 40km/h on 1% slope and 600t at 50km/h on 2,5% slope
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12:36<Terkhen>I remember I had to set the video driver to null... but whenever I use it the game exits just after map generation / load
12:36<Mks>I see
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>and the slopes in openttd clearly are lacking variety
12:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18665 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt smallmap_gui.cpp): -Feature [FS#567]: Allow contour-map to be shown with coloured industries in smallmap.
12:50<planetmaker>nice :-)
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>what disturbs me the most is that slopes and curves depend on train length
12:53<@Rubidium>Terkhen: -v null goes for 1000 ticks by default
12:54<Terkhen>thanks, I can use it then :)
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>hm... when generating a non-square map, the mountains tend to get stretched in the longer direction...
12:55<planetmaker>maybe squeezed in the shorter? ;-)
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>whatever... but all mountains go in the same direction ;)
12:57<@peter1138>with variety distribution?
12:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18666 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt smallmap_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Add tooltips to enable/disable all buttons in smallmap.
12:59<@peter1138>yeah, that looks a bit odd with extreme aspect ratio gaming
12:59<@peter1138>i mean more 128x2048, ehe
12:59<@peter1138>i only tested it with 2:1 ratios
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause>i tried 4:1, and it was pretty obvious...
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>on 2:1 it looks fine
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>but the mountains are still too plateau-y
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>you never get any bridgeable valleys
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>either flat land or mountain plateaus...
13:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18667 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_order.cpp: -Fix [FS#3454]: [NoAI] crash when trying to get the order destination of a 'nearest depot' order
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13:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18668 /trunk/src/lang/ (48 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3450]: the space between the S and X of OS X should be a non-breaking one
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>and i need a rack railway for this mountain...
13:11<@peter1138>hmm, scaling by aspect ratio doesn't work well
13:18<@peter1138>as 2048/64 is 32, therefore variety distribution would be on or off
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: there's a function somewhere that rounds autofill timetables to whole days, that's kinda useless with daylength
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 8*74
13:34<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 592
13:35<@peter1138>also i'm scaling wrong anyway. hmm...
13:41<Terkhen>hmmm... is there any implemented way of showing how much time OpenTTD spends in these 1000 ticks? I want to compare the performance of different implementations
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>"make run_prof" or something
13:42<@peter1138>you need to configure with profiling too
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>or simple: "time openttd"
13:45<@peter1138>not very accurate :)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r18669 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 13 changes by burgerd
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 74 changes by agenthh
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 4 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx
13:46<Terkhen>okay, I'll try what it does in profiling mode
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13:56<Terkhen>wow, this is perfect, thanks!
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14:01<+glx>you can specify more ticks if needed
14:03<Terkhen>how? -v null:<ticks>?
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14:05<+glx>-v null:ticks=<ticks>
14:06<Terkhen>ok, thanks
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14:22<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, I noticed that with the mainline timetables
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: it makes tram timetables really useless
14:26<SpComb^>but you can change it to use ticks instead
14:26<SpComb^>it should store it in ticks, and display fractional days or such
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>i have it showing in ticks, but the initial autofill still rounds to whole days
14:27<SpComb^>I think the other timetable patch introduces some kind of time-concept?
14:28<SpComb^>well, hmm, I guess you do need to round it off to something
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but try to get that applying to trunk :p
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, your patch should disable this rounding, or make it apply the original daylength
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>and that's the place where all daylength patches get troublesome ;)
14:30<SpComb^>well, it's a problem that can be fixed
14:30<SpComb^>a longer daylength perhaps just makes it more obvious
14:30<SpComb^>you could probably fix it even without throwing in the daylength stuff
14:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18670 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3455]: Update all tiles when snowline height changes in larger steps than one tile.
14:31<SpComb^>and I haven't heard of anyone actively opposing daylength
14:31<@orudge>I actively oppose daylength!
14:31<@orudge>I don’t
14:31<@orudge>I have no opinion on it
14:31<@orudge>I just thought I’d say that
14:31<SpComb^>and I think it's preety interesting to see how my 10-line daylength patch has over a hundred downloads already, and good feedback from users
14:32<@orudge>what is this patch?
14:32<@orudge>or where is it?
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>not daylength per se, but all people have different opinion on what should be changed by daylength and what not
14:32<@orudge>I guess in the Development forum
14:32<@orudge>ah yes
14:32<SpComb^>Daylength, Cargodist with sprinkles
14:33<SpComb^>yeah, and I guess one doesn't want to throw something gameplay-chaning into trunk until the side-effects have been figured out
14:33<SpComb^>even if the patch itself is very clean
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>it's funny how turning off "realistic" catchment areas automatically makes my tram networks more spread out
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: well, the original daylength patch had one line :p
14:34<SpComb^>mine has some comments and a patch setting :P
14:35<SpComb^>but otherwise the same, yes
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm... now my station sign blocks the view of the town name...
14:36<SpComb^>but point being, even a simple/crude vardaylength functionality has a big positive impact
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14:37<SpComb^>but there are some serious side effects that do require fixing, for me, it was the towns exploding
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but no patch ever had a higher discrepancy between "positive feedback" and "trunk-readiness"
14:38<SpComb^>well, it's far from trunk-ready only if you expect it to magically re-balance the economy in some way that's based on opinion
14:40<SpComb^>but as it is right now, it takes a lot of explaining to understand what happens when you change it
14:40<SpComb^>not sure if you can fix that by patching
14:41<SpComb^>yes, monthly industry production figures go up... well...
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>one of the things i noticed with all daylength patches: the yearly cost of all vehicles increase way beyond their purchase price
14:43<planetmaker>:-) vehicles are like printer ink: buy cheap, pay often
14:43<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: iirc it takes DAY_TICKS into account, so the figure stays the same
14:44<planetmaker>hm... maybe then purchase prices need adjustment, if cargo rates are not adjusted?
14:44<planetmaker>but then... the max loan also needs to be adjusted
14:44<SpComb^>but I think taht's a pretty minor detail - profit's already way out of whack, so it doesn't really matter
14:45<SpComb^>planetmaker: now you're into dangerous territory
14:45<SpComb^>the only way to fix daylength-related issues is to fix everything to be either tick-based or date-based
14:45<planetmaker>SpComb^: well, yes. then it's a start setting and cannot be changed
14:45<SpComb^>nothing else should be done
14:46<planetmaker>:-) I hope you work out something reasonable
14:46<SpComb^>I'll fix any issues that I run into as they come up
14:47<SpComb^>for a change, I'm actually pplaying with this patch
14:48<Terkhen>when calculating the time spent inside a function, does gprof add the time spent in functions called from the original one?
14:49<SpComb^>Terkhen: there's more than one figure
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14:49<SpComb^>read the docs :P
14:50<MyCatSchemes>Terkhen, you'll find that listed as "cumulative" time.
14:50<MyCatSchemes>e.g. f() burns one second in a while loop, then calls g() which burns one and a half seconds in a loop.
14:51<Terkhen>that's what I thought, but the results are not logical... I must have a mistake somewhere
14:52<MyCatSchemes>f's cumulative time usage will come out to 2.5s. Some profilers will also give you the 1s figure for the time that's used strictly within f() itself too. IMHO not a spectacularly useful metric. Most likely less accurate than the cumulative timing, too.
14:53<Terkhen>okay, I forgot to set realistic acceleration for trains on at the savegame... as a result I got too small times
14:54<MyCatSchemes>Happens to the best of us.
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14:57<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: while you're at it, can you make slopes have higher influence on passenger trains?
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>it's kinda useless to build serpentines if the curves slow down the train more than the slopes...
15:00<SpComb^>ugh, serpenties
15:00*SpComb^ doesn't do them
15:01<Terkhen>as long as I find an easy way to determine which trains carry passengers, it shouldn't be too complicated... I can give it a try but as a different patch: I'm currently profiling the improved acceleration for road vehicles patch
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: anyway, in src/timetable_cmd.cpp:270ish: time_taken = (((time_taken - 1) / DAY_TICKS) + 1) * DAY_TICKS;
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>this should probably be the original day ticks
15:03<SpComb^>they are stored in ticks, though?
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15:04<Eddi|zuHause>it's just rounding
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15:06<Eddi|zuHause>it accepts unrounded tick values when manually entering the values, but it won't show fractional days
15:06<SpComb^>well, you could replace it with ORIG_DAY_TICKS, and then just say that fixing it for real is out of the patch's scope :P
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>well, really, it makes autofill useless
15:07<SpComb^>(as the same problem will then apply to trunk)
15:07<SpComb^>well, looks like another one-liner to fix it back to the same status as in trunk
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>it's not a problem in trunk
15:08<SpComb^>rounding is, displaying it in days isn't quite
15:08<SpComb^>but displaying fractional days is a patch that would be independent of daylength
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, someone thought that the rounding would stop "confusing" people
15:11<SpComb^>well, you could trick it into displaying the same fractional parts as what the daylength factor happens to be
15:11<SpComb^>for the rounded-off autofilled intervals
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but there is no code to display fractional numbers ;)
15:12<SpComb^>but timetables do call for some measure of "time" that would then be tied to ticks
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but the virtual clock is definitely out of the scope of the daylength patch ;)
15:14<@peter1138>easy enough to manullay show decimal
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15:14<SpComb^>so fix it back to the same level of usability as in trunk, and then fixes that improve it are independant
15:15<SpComb^>or something along those lines
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>i set mine to round to 100 ticks now
15:21<SpComb^>a) daylength patch to make it use ORIG_DAY_TICKS b) separate patch to show fractional timetable days in <n>ths up to, say, 16 or 10
15:23<SpComb^>have to admit that I don't really know how to use timetables myself
15:23-!-curriegrad2004 [~cg4ipv6@2001:470:c06d:1000:f0f3:a8a:b107:d2ff] has joined #openttd
15:23<SpComb^>I always end up trying them on a couple random vehicles
15:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18671 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#3452]: [NewGRF] If an action B did not have a 'data' string but would print it OpenTTD would segfault
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>they're only really usefull with autoseparation
15:35<SpComb^>which isn't in trunk?
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>the manual separation made it to trunk recently
15:35<welshdragon>it damn well should be
15:35<SpComb^>I've seen them kind of seem to work for boats/trams
15:36<SpComb^>but trains... they tend to spread themselves out when resolving all the massive jams :)
15:37<welshdragon>it'd be nice to get a newspaper message saying that there is a jam
15:37<welshdragon>(say if a train is stuck at a signal after 150 days)
15:38<SpComb^>itym 150*54 ticks :P
15:39<gathers>I'm playing around with modifying an old autoseparation patch myself, but I'm new to openttd code.. is anyone else working on something similar as well?
15:39<SpComb^>it's weird, the wait_at_twoway (o whatever) use some random magic constants for the ticks
15:39<SpComb^>iirc 54 for one and 74 for two, or such
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>gathers: try the "improved timetable management patch", but parts of it have gone to trunk, and the gui code heavily changed
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>blame alberth ;)
15:46<gathers>Eddi|zuHause: the diff for that one is over 6000 lines! that's a lot to read, but I've been poking around in it
15:47<gathers>(my own diff for automated timetables with separation is 519)
15:48<gathers>If anyone has an "improved timetable management patch" the applies to trunk I'd be very happy, though :P
15:48<@Rubidium>sadly enough I'm quite sure nobody has that
15:49<@Rubidium>unless you find a year old trunk sufficient
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>i tried updating it again, but i failed/gave up
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15:53<kingconnections>hey guys
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i shouldn't have started with merging date_gui.cpp
15:54<kingconnections>can i ask an openttd question real quick
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>where half of it has gone to trunk heavily modified, and the other half is still depending on the old gui system
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>and i totally loathe gui code
15:54<Ammler>make bundle doesn't make a gm directory bundle/gm/
15:55<Ammler>with the nomusic obm
15:56<kingconnections>is it possible to ferry goods from a truck station to an airport?
15:56<@Rubidium>kingconnections: you're usually getting better answers when asking the question than asking the metaquestion whether you may ask the question you want to ask
15:56<kingconnections>lol thank rubidium!
15:56<@Rubidium>kingconnections: yes, if they are part of the same station
15:57<kingconnections>do I have to place the truck port directly adjaent to the airport
15:57<kingconnections>can it be across the road?
15:57<@Rubidium>yes, or use 'distant join' but then you need to press Ctrl when building
15:57<kingconnections>thanks very much you were very helpful
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16:01<Eddi|zuHause>i find this idea on the forum intriguing, where stations are separate concering the pathfinder, but joined concerning cargo
16:01<Xaroth>as in
16:02<Xaroth>go to station X platform Y ?
16:02-!-Wizzleby [] has joined #openttd
16:02<Xaroth>nice idea, doesn't work -all- the time tho
16:02<SpComb^>you'd need to group platforms
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>yes, platforms could be grouped by assigning them to the same sub-station
16:03<SpComb^>but, you can build multi-track waypoints right against the platforms now
16:04<@Rubidium>let me guess, and then platform 1-4 should be part of substation A, 5-8 of substation B, 3-6 of substation C, 1,2,7,8 of substation D?
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>but not _on_ the platform, and especially with road vehicles, they take up a lot of space
16:04<SpComb^>what would be even more awesome would be for the pf to pick a platform that let's it get to the next order as well
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: not entirely sure whether that is necessary
16:05<SpComb^>for mixed through/oneway/terminus/etc stations
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but i frequently have the situation where a tram line splits up, and i can't tell the trams to go to the stop that leads in their direction
16:06<Wizzleby>would this be the proper place to ask about build issues with grfcodec-r2247?
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: yeah, that would solve some of the situations, but it is very difficult to implement
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>Wizzleby: this is certainly not the place to ask metaquestions
16:08<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: well, Dalestan isn't here right now... so not sure how much we can help with that
16:08<Wizzleby>Eddi|zuHause: meta-questioning was not my intent, I appologize if it came off as such
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but we don't find that out with a metaquestion either ;)
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>Wizzleby: there's a graphics forum for "technical discussion", possibly you can get help there
16:09<Ammler>Is it a technical issue, you can't switch base sets ingame?
16:10<Ammler>shouldn't that be easier than switching newgrfs?
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16:12<Wizzleby>I could use the other set, yes, but that would defeat the purpose of packaging open{g,s}fx
16:13<Ammler>Wizzleby: did you already ask?
16:13<@Rubidium>Ammler: IIRC it was because of some strange crashes when changing the base set ingame
16:14<Ammler>Rubidium: for the music sets, it would be nice to be able to
16:14<Wizzleby>eh? no. Its a compilation error. an invalid conversion from ‘const char*’ to ‘char*’
16:15<Wizzleby>no, error
16:15<@Rubidium>if you pay attention you'll see that the intro game gets reloaded when you change the base set
16:15<planetmaker>hm... Wizzleby I think it was fixed in a newer version. Not entirely sure, though
16:15<Wizzleby>planetmaker: I'm using r2247, didn't see a newer version
16:15<@Rubidium>planetmaker: you're probably thinking of nforenum
16:15<Ammler>(the compile.patch)
16:16<planetmaker>you might be right
16:16<planetmaker>you are right
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>hm, where can i make transfers pay for each leg individually? shouldn't be difficult
16:18<Wizzleby>Ammler: thank you, I will try that patch
16:21<Ammler>Wizzleby: what distro do you build for?
16:21<Wizzleby>Ammler: gentoo
16:24<Ammler>the patch is downwards compatible, no idea, why it never got to upstream
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16:25<Wizzleby>Well that's why I came looking. no need to re-write a gcc-4.4 patch if there is already one floating around
16:26<Wizzleby>Ammler: that patch did the trick, thanks muchly
16:36-!-sparrL2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:36<@Rubidium>Ammler: probably because you haven't pushed it hard enough
16:38<Ammler>well, I learned to report something and then stay silent ;-)
16:39-!-andythenorth [~andy@] has joined #openttd
16:40<@Belugas>and here we go again, leaving you to your sad faith, while i go facing the cold and the night!
16:40<@Belugas>bye bye
16:41-!-ajmiles [] has joined #openttd
16:45<andythenorth>I come, Belugas goes :|
16:45<andythenorth>I have faced the cold night
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>it snowed last night
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>but now it's raining, it seems
16:54<fjb>Yes, it's rain.
16:55<andythenorth>rain here
16:56<_ln>snow here
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17:04<Eddi|zuHause>you have a weird encoding ;)
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>the ó is encoded in "ibm850"
17:05<@peter1138>revisi¢n: 18671
17:05<@peter1138>that's no ó
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>which i have seen practically never since DOS ;)
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: exactly ;)
17:08<@peter1138>Terkhen, i had been thinking something similar actually
17:08<Terkhen>well... svn diff does stranger things in windows, like mixing windows and unix EOLs
17:08<@peter1138>Terkhen, a configuration option to directly set the steepness of a hill...
17:09<@peter1138>but... couldn't be bothered to write it ;p
17:09<Terkhen>I was thinking of including a configuration option at the improved acceleration for road vehicles patch, I can code it as a standalone patch for trains
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17:28<curriegrad2004>hey, just a quick question
17:28<curriegrad2004>are the official binaries for Windows on OpenTTD have DirectMusic support built into it?
17:30<dm`afk>just submitted my first bug report :-)
17:30*dm`afk hopes autosave works
17:30-!-dm`afk is now known as darkmonkey
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17:32<@Rubidium>darkmonkey: if the autosave crashes, can you check whether it crashes in the last nightly too?
17:33-!-planetmaker is now known as bugmaker
17:34<@Rubidium>oh, it's his fault
17:34*Xaroth points at bugmaker
17:34<Xaroth>it's his fault
17:34<Xaroth>he made the bug
17:34<bugmaker>hehe :-)
17:34-!-bugmaker is now known as planetmaker
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17:35<planetmaker>I prefer making planets to be honest
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>someone had a similar assert with cargodist recently
17:37<darkmonkey>er, Rubidium, running the nightly gives me "failed to select requested sounds set 'NoSound'"
17:37<darkmonkey>i might be doing it wrong - extracted the zip to folder on desktop and ran the openttd.exe
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17:40<mib_1hnrgjhf9xmk>19/female/usa Want to see me naked? ;)
17:41<@Rubidium>copy the nosound/opengfx/opensfx folders from c:\program files\openttd\data to the data directory that you extracted
17:41-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*559d4ca4@*] by Rubidium
17:41-!-mib_1hnrgjhf9xmk was kicked from #openttd by Rubidium [mib_1hnrgjhf9xmk]
17:41<darkmonkey>god, she sounded hot
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17:41<darkmonkey>ok Rubidium, hold on
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17:42<valhallasw>darkmonkey: female/usa? she has got to be obese ;)
17:42<darkmonkey>this is true :>
17:42<darkmonkey>Rubidium, exactly the same error
17:42<darkmonkey>i will amend the ticket
17:43<@Rubidium>darkmonkey: you tried the last autosave, right?
17:43<@Rubidium>not the crash.sav
17:43<darkmonkey>oh, oh
17:43<darkmonkey>the crash.sav crashed in both and the autosave worked in the beta
17:43<darkmonkey>but was from 5 mins before
17:43<@Rubidium>the crash.sav is going to crash in the nightly anyhow because it's already broken
17:44<darkmonkey>right, shall i run the autosave in the beta and see if it occurs again?
17:44<Zuu>darkmonkey: For future if you are goning to run multiple installations on windows you can keep your data files in C:\User\<your user>\Documents\OpenTTD\data\, then all OpenTTD installations will find them.
17:44<darkmonkey>ah thanks :)
17:44<@Rubidium>darkmonkey: you were working on signals, right?
17:44<fjb>To bad he didn't say if she is pretty...
17:45<lobstar>Assorted good musics
17:45<lobstar>for those who dare
17:45<lobstar>end of announcement, thank you all
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17:46<_ln>lobstar: if i had @, you'd be /k for flooding
17:47<@peter1138>is it really a radio show
17:47<lobstar>well, i might do some intros and so on
17:47<@peter1138>IT IS
17:47<lobstar>if i can get my microphone to work
17:48<@peter1138>also known as
17:48<@peter1138>if i had @, i'd /k _ln for suggesting it
17:48<@Rubidium>darkmonkey: then it's very likely fixed by r18628
17:49<darkmonkey>where's openttd's svn tracker?
17:49<Terkhen>peter1138: It's almost finished... should the configuration option have a value for ignoring slopes completely?
17:49<@peter1138> sort of thing
17:49<_ln>is it ok to use 190-character lines in the code?
17:50<darkmonkey>thanks peter1138, yes
17:50<Zuu>Most OpenTTD services can be found at:
17:50*darkmonkey newb
17:50<lobstar>if i had @, i'd eat some buns and dance around naked
17:51<darkmonkey>Rubidium the track i was building was fresh with no trains on it so no trains were loading in stations
17:52<Sacro>lobstar: i thought you did that anyway
17:54-!-roboboy [] has quit [autokilled: This host violated network policy. If you feel an error has been made, please contact, thanks. (2009-12-30 22:54:30)]
17:54<lobstar>mic not working
17:55<@Rubidium>darkmonkey: the trains in Hindhead are in the same signal block as where you placed the signal
17:55<darkmonkey>ah, true
17:55<darkmonkey>my bad
17:56<@peter1138>lobstar, that's nothing, my mic raises my voice by 5 semitones...
17:57<lobstar>ah, that's also not very helpful indeed
17:57<lobstar>the result is a convincing chipmunk sound, is it not?
17:58<@peter1138>it is
17:58<Eddi|zuHause><valhallasw> darkmonkey: female/usa? she has got to be obese ;) <- and 40, and male ;)
18:00<darkmonkey>Rubidium: occurred again in the trunk
18:01<darkmonkey>Rubidium: would you like me to make a seperate ticket/dump etc or what?
18:01<@Rubidium>darkmonkey: with the crash savegame?
18:01<darkmonkey>with the autosave
18:01<darkmonkey>after playing for ~5 minutes
18:02<darkmonkey>but doing the same thing (signals on same rail)
18:03<@Rubidium>just add the savegame where I just have to place the signal to crash OpenTTD to the existing ticket
18:05<darkmonkey>i of course can't replicate it now ;)
18:06<@Rubidium>maybe because you were running the beta instead of the nightly?
18:06<darkmonkey>running the nightly
18:07*darkmonkey tries some more
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18:10<darkmonkey>meh, can't replicate it. am pretty damn sure i was running the nightly when i last got the error but you've now put doubt in my mind
18:10<darkmonkey>so i dunno!
18:11<@Rubidium>what does crash.log say about the version?
18:12<@Rubidium>hmm, odd very odd
18:13<@Rubidium>anyhow, without a way to reproduce the crash (by building the signal) it's impossible to fix
18:13<darkmonkey>i agree
18:13*darkmonkey sighs
18:13<darkmonkey>the woes of bug fixing!
18:14<darkmonkey>i am a web developer and it's much easier to reproduce bugs in such a limited environment
18:16<MyCatSchemes>darkmonkey, I challenge you to repeat that statement when the bug turns out to be an intermittent race condition in your caching infrastructure. :)
18:16<darkmonkey>haha yes, then you've got issues
18:17<darkmonkey>but 90% of the time it's a lazy front-end programmer who got lazy with browser testing
18:17<darkmonkey>*sloppy front-end
18:18*lobstar announces that radio will stop for an update, but will resume shortly thereafter
18:20*Eddi|zuHause requests that there be no radio announcements anymore
18:20<SpComb>Edit: I think tree generation needs to be modified as well, my map is completely covered in trees even though I have only played a couple of years with your patch (x50 day length). I think there is a separate tree patch somewhere, but i think it should probably be tied in with the day length"
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: better skip that ;)
18:23<SpComb>some kind of if (GetTreeCounter(tile) < 15) ...
18:24<SpComb>but pretty meh
18:24<SpComb>more trees = good, right? :)
18:25<Ammler>TrueBrain: seems like the rss feed urls seems broken (again)
18:25<Ammler> has links like
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18:33<SpComb> <-- I still want to know what it is that break's George's ECS industries with pavel's daylength patch
18:34<lobstar>LOBSTAR RADIO:
18:34<lobstar>for you pleasure
18:36*Rubidium ponders /ignore lobstar for my pleasure...
18:36<lobstar>do as you please, ofcourse
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19:01<SpComb>well, the ECS shutdowns happen for me in 1926-01-01 even if I play with normal daylength
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19:05<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: george has some weird scheme of calculating production
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>which apparently depends on the exact number of ticks during one month
19:06<SpComb>but that doesn't cause the industry shutdowns, rather, some separate issue?
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>no, the industry shutdowns are a "feature" ;)
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19:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18672 /trunk/src/crashlog.cpp: -Codechange: mention the game date in the crash log
19:10<SpComb>sounds to me suspiciously like he wants to keep the production/month constant
19:10<SpComb>but "As I wrote, such better calculation is a wish, not a must. It would not change the behaviour dramatically"
19:11<SpComb>so I'm not sure what the whole hooplah about a newgrf var is, really
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19:17<@Belugas>ho? a radio? I hope they'll play some Bloody Time Zones ^_^
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19:18<SpComb>np: Gorje Hewek - Cotton Studio: Zapiskki (Cotton Studio February 2009)
19:18*Eddi|zuHause is listening to dexter end credits [Amarok2]
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19:19<Eddi|zuHause>i totally get the shivers every time i hear that
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19:47<Terkhen>good night
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21:03<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i can't figure out anymore where transfer credit is added to the vehicle, to replace that with real money instead
21:08<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know if it is because it's so oo-ified now, or because it's so late
21:08<Eddi|zuHause>i figure it's in "CargoPayment::PayTransfer" but i can't point my finger on it...
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22:09<gathers>When adding new values to table/settings.h, how do I know what value to use before SL_MAX_VERSION?
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>you need to increase SAVEGAME_VERSION and use that value
22:15<gathers>it's an extern, where is it defined?
22:16<Eddi|zuHause>saveload.cpp or something
22:17<gathers>thanks, chasing it down now :)
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22:44<sparr>can anyone recommend a [semi]public server where there is less risk of players joining just to ruin the game?
22:44<PeterT>like I (we) said before
22:44<PeterT>or this, if he can get it running:
22:45<sparr>tried there, not a good fit. will check the forum, thanks
22:45<PeterT>you joined the server, how?
22:48<sparr>i mean #jonty
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22:49<PeterT>why not, sparr/
22:50<sparr>people keep telling me i am playing wrong. "don't put an airport there", "don't build tracks there", "don't terraform there"
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---Logclosed Thu Dec 31 00:00:19 2009