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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-01

---Logopened Mon Feb 01 00:00:15 2010
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01:15*Diablo-D3 installs metro track set, egrvts, bigger depots, ev8 aviators, industrial stations renewal
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01:38<Terkhen>good morning
01:39<Forked>morning =)
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04:06<@peter1138>ah, right, now the auditor wants Administrator removed
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04:20<bartavelle>nickserv identify troutrou
04:21<bartavelle>/amsg instead of /msg ...
04:22<@peter1138>so, can i remove Administrator from a running system without any adverse effects?
04:24<@Rubidium>just rename it to guest :)
04:24<@Rubidium>and remove the password!
04:25<bartavelle>you can rename it but you should not remove it afaik
04:25<bartavelle>however security advices from me should be taken with a grain of salt as i just demonstrated
04:32<@peter1138>er, yeah
04:33<blathijs>I think renaming should be fine, since it has a well-known GUID
04:34<@peter1138>then i'll be asked what this other account is for
04:34<blathijs>As for deleting, that probably breaks stuff. Why would you want to do that?
04:34<@peter1138> :S
04:34<blathijs>Wouldn't disabling be enough?
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04:41<@peter1138>oh, that articles useless too, heh
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04:49<@peter1138>hmm, seems 2003 lets you just disable it in user accounts
04:50*peter1138 reboots his test machine and crosses fingers
04:53*Diablo-D3 needs to quit playing
04:54<planetmaker>then start programming. Just as addictive :-P
04:54<Diablo-D3>Im not programming on openttd
04:54*Diablo-D3 has seen the code
04:54<planetmaker>that's why I have proposed to start in order to stop playing
04:54<Diablo-D3>planetmaker: I code on many things
04:55<Diablo-D3>openttd will never be one of them.
04:56<Diablo-D3>also, lolAI
04:56<Diablo-D3>one of the AIs is trying to do trams
04:56<Diablo-D3>and fucking it all up
05:13<roboboy>can I move the Tars Bananas downloads to another folder within my Data folder and have them still be opened and applyd?
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05:43*Diablo-D3 got rid of almost all his road and tram vehicles
05:45<Diablo-D3>vehicles are breaking down so much that everything just jams up badly
05:51<SpComb^>remove your depots and watch the fun
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07:07<Diablo-D3>I dont care about AI difficulty
07:07<Diablo-D3>all I want is an AI who doesnt fuck shit up
07:07<Noldo>well code it then
07:07<Diablo-D3>openttd isnt about how much cargo you push, or how many places you connect
07:07<Diablo-D3>its how it looks when you're done
07:08<Diablo-D3>Noldo: honestly, its easier to just kidnap mexican kids and make them play openttd on tiny little netbooks
07:08<roboboy>are you using a version that has NoAI in it?
07:08<Diablo-D3>roboboy: why would it matter?
07:09<roboboy>because I would have thought the new AIs for NoAI would not destroy the landscape and such
07:09<Diablo-D3>oh its not that
07:09<Diablo-D3>admiralAI and pathzilla, for example, both _ruin_ cities
07:10<Diablo-D3>they put fucking bus stops and tram stops everywhere
07:10<Yexo>Diablo-D3: you can configure AdmiralAI to not use busses at all
07:10<roboboy>lol Plant Tycoon
07:11<Diablo-D3>Yexo: Im thinking about turning off everything but trains and planes for AI.
07:11<Diablo-D3>that, and turning off vehicle breakdown
07:12<Diablo-D3>what screwed it up was the AI busses would all break down constantly
07:12<Diablo-D3>so you'd have a line of like 50 vehicles of mine and the AI's
07:12<Diablo-D3>all stuck in traffic
07:14<Diablo-D3>whats currently the least ugly AI?
07:15<@Rubidium>DummyAI builds the fewest ugly stuff/vehicles
07:15<roboboy>it depends on what you call ugly. You seem to have a different view on what ugly is to most people.
07:16*roboboy wonders if DummyAI will ever be replace. He thinks most likely not
07:18<Diablo-D3>roboboy: well, having 3258029582039548109482409 busses
07:18<Diablo-D3>all stuck in traffic
07:18<Diablo-D3>breaking down while sitting in traffic
07:18<Diablo-D3>and otherwise being useless
07:18<Diablo-D3>is ugly.
07:18<Diablo-D3>why the hell are vehicles breaking down while sitting anyhow
07:19<@Rubidium>the engine overheats?
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is not that the AI build ugly stuff, but that openttd traffic management is not designed for such a vehicle load
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>vehicles can't load balance for example, or use multi-lane roads
07:21*roboboy cant remember if the annoying traffic jams can un-jam themselves manually
07:22<roboboy>the ones where vehicles get stuck on top of each other at station entrances.
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: there's measures to resolve them. they pass through each other after a while
07:25<roboboy>so the AI wont be screwed over totally if they occur
07:26<roboboy>what exactly causes them out of interest. Ive never actually seen one form.
07:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: matthijs * r18979 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix: Typo in console save command output.
07:32<roboboy>gnight soon
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>me neither
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07:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18980 /trunk/src/ (order_gui.cpp timetable_gui.cpp): -Codechange: preceeding -> preceding (spelling)
07:50<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: remember that scene in Star Trek IV (Voyage Home) with the whaling ship and its crew talking/yelling to each other?
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>i think they had subtitles, not sure
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>let me search...
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07:53<TrueBrain>a Rubidium commit? That is a while ago :p
07:53<__ln__>(Eddi seems to have all the movies from past 20 years available)
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07:54<Eddi|zuHause>johannes@johannes-ii:/media/disk/filme> find -iname '*.avi' | wc -l
07:54<TrueBrain>avi :(
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07:56<Eddi|zuHause>plus the ones i have on DVD
07:56<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: btw, yes, I agree that ottd traffic management is nuts
07:56<Diablo-D3>but vehicles really shouldnt break down all that often
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>i always play without breakdowns
07:57<Diablo-D3>Im seriously thinking about that
07:57<Diablo-D3>but the problem is
07:57<Diablo-D3>openttd simply isnt ready until ye average player doesnt have to fuck with advanced options.
07:57<Diablo-D3>I remember saying this around the 0.5 days
07:57<Diablo-D3>and, apparently, have been ignored
07:57<SpComb^>breakdowns isn't in the advanced options, it's in the difficulty settings
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07:57<Diablo-D3>SpComb^: it used to be.
07:57<SpComb^>certainly not
07:58<SpComb^>it was in the original TTD
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>breakdowns always were difficulty
07:58<TrueBrain>always and always and always
07:58<Diablo-D3>either way, I shouldnt have to fuck with it
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>and the advanced settings problem has been reduced since 0.5 ;)
07:58<Diablo-D3>its not a bad "feature", its just woefully hyperactive.
07:58<TrueBrain>is this Luukland with another name? :p
07:58<Diablo-D3>TrueBrain: who?
07:58*Diablo-D3 has missed out on all the trolls, btw
07:59<@Rubidium>the only breakdowns that weren't in the difficulty settings at any time are mental breakdowns of players (they've never been a setting anyhow)
07:59<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: lawlz
07:59<Diablo-D3>seriously though, openttd has really advanced
07:59<Diablo-D3>but its not "done" until some of the really retarded stuff goes away
08:00<Diablo-D3>the lack of real road management as Eddi|zuHause mentioned is a severe problem
08:01<Diablo-D3>and stuff like egrvts and industrial stations renewal shouldn't be newgrf packs
08:01<TrueBrain>it is never "done" btw
08:01<Diablo-D3>TrueBrain: thus the quotes.
08:01<TrueBrain>even with the quotes
08:02<TrueBrain>there will always be someone who says it is not "done"
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08:02<Diablo-D3>"done" == I dont have to hand new players a list of settings to set and shit to download before they can play it
08:02<@Rubidium>well, arguably all NewGRFs Diablo-D3 likes to use should be in standard OpenTTD because only then it can ever be marked "done"
08:02<TrueBrain>but ... who says you should download egrvts? And not something else?
08:02<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: no, thats not what Im arguing
08:03<Diablo-D3>Im saying newgfxs shouldnt be fixing serious deficiencies in gameplay
08:03<@Rubidium>anyhow, with that respect... without OpenTTD being added to *DEFAULT* installations... OpenTTD will never be done
08:03<TrueBrain>I like the default settings btw, in Easy difficulty :) The only one I switch is allowing to build road-stops on town-road
08:03<@Rubidium>how are extra graphics for stations a deficiency?
08:03<Diablo-D3>egrvts adds more vehicles
08:04<Diablo-D3>its not about graphics
08:04<SpComb^>Diablo-D3: you can hand then the binary and tell them to join a server, which has the right settings
08:04<Diablo-D3>SpComb^: thats if they want to play multiplayer
08:04<TrueBrain>I do agree that the BaNaNaS could use a rating star system :)
08:04<Diablo-D3>yeah, banans should have that
08:04<Diablo-D3>I know it tracks downloads, thats almost just as good
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08:05<Diablo-D3>road vehicles, btw, almost seem like an afterthought in the original TT design
08:05<Diablo-D3>theres very few vehicles and they don't really work very well
08:05*Rubidium wonders the value of rating stuff; it doesn't tell shit about the quality, just about how bad people like *something* in it
08:05<Ammler>[14:04] <Diablo-D3> I know it tracks downloads, thats almost just as good <-- not really, it penalties grfs, which do update from time to time.
08:06<TrueBrain>Rubidium: exactly :)
08:06<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: anyway, about that scene, the language the whale hunters speak is the interesting part.
08:06<Diablo-D3>Ammler: that just sounds like a bug that should be fixed
08:06<Diablo-D3>__ln__: what language? russian?
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: apparently they speak foreign-ish, but without subtitles
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08:06<Ammler>that, I didn't say, it should just not be used as rating system :-)
08:06<@Rubidium>pig latin!
08:07<Diablo-D3>(wouldnt that be hilarious)
08:07<Diablo-D3>klingon spoken without the IM ANGRY AND HAVE A RIDGE IN MY FOREHEAD thing
08:07<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: they speak finnish.
08:08<Diablo-D3>__ln__: that doesnt seem right for some reason
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: but how do finnish whale hunters get into bering strait?
08:08<ctibor>on a boat? :-)
08:09<Diablo-D3>a motherfucking boat?
08:09<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: that's a good question, besides the fact i've never heard of finnish whale hunters.
08:09<Diablo-D3>crap, now I'm envisioning kirk and spock and bones in "I'm on a boat"
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that's half of the question ;)
08:10*Diablo-D3 bangs head on desk until it goes away
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: what exactly is that?
08:10<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: you've never seen it!?
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08:14<Eddi|zuHause>nope, i don't seem to know that...
08:14<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: you're the last person on the internet to have not seen it
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>forgive me. i'm german...
08:15<Diablo-D3>Thats no excuse.
08:16<Diablo-D3>you know what would be interesting in openttd, btw?
08:16<Diablo-D3>real sized ships.
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>apparently my internet doesn't want me to see it either...
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>download stops after 500kb
08:17<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: hrm weird
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08:21<__ln__>Diablo-D3: how big is real size?
08:21<Diablo-D3>thats a good question
08:21<ctibor>Diablo-D3: I assume that planes are small too then :-)
08:21<Diablo-D3>ctibor: almost
08:21<Diablo-D3>they're too slow.
08:21<__ln__>I once suggested ships that could carry trucks and trains.
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: there's a setting for that ;)
08:22<ctibor>you can make them faster
08:22<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, and its nuts
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08:22<Diablo-D3>but it doesnt scale cost well enough
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: you are one of those guys who can never have it right...
08:22<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: ottd is a complex game
08:22<Diablo-D3>its hard to balance it.
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08:23<Diablo-D3>but ships are too small in respect for the weird scaling openttd has
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: ships have enough problems with their oversized-ness as it is
08:24<ctibor>I think it's good for the gameplay to be alright
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08:24<Diablo-D3>ctibor: I agre
08:24<Diablo-D3>thats a more important goal
08:24<Diablo-D3>but for what ships hold, they seem too small
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: on the contrary, people claim that ships do not hold enough
08:26<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: this may also be true
08:26<ctibor>Yes their capcity is maybe small...
08:27<Diablo-D3>do things in ttd have correct speeds?
08:27<ctibor>but on a typical industry, it will have to wait for ages to fully load
08:27<Diablo-D3>besides airplanes I mean
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>i think speeds are of the same scale
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>but the internal representation is different, i believe
08:28<Diablo-D3>ctibor: thats not a big issue.
08:28<Diablo-D3>but industries should have larger dynamic in their production output
08:28<ctibor>Well I consider initial productions of the industries way too small. I want to build big traaaaiinss :-)
08:29<Diablo-D3>I agree
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: try an industry newgrf
08:29<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: we're talking basic openttd here
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>zombie-ottd... "traaaaaaaaaaiiinnnnssss"
08:29<Diablo-D3>the point of openttd gameplay is to setup all these networks for fun
08:29<Diablo-D3>and I stress the fun part
08:30<ctibor>i cheat and modify industry production
08:30<Diablo-D3>why have boats at all if they're somewhat useless
08:30<Diablo-D3>or cars
08:30<Diablo-D3>or planes
08:30<ctibor>also pikkabird's industries are quite good :-)
08:30<ctibor>I use boats
08:30<Diablo-D3>I don't use boats all that often
08:31<Diablo-D3>they just dont feel right
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08:31<Diablo-D3>I almost wanna say the maps are too small.
08:31<Diablo-D3>the maps are the right size for trains
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>the problem with boats is that the delivery prices are too dependent on speed, and do not care about terrain difficulties (like islands)
08:31<Diablo-D3>but the wrong size for airplanes and boats.
08:32<ctibor>recently i started to like 1024 square with few cities on it (like 25).
08:32<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: I agree
08:32<Diablo-D3>boats should obviously have a modifier for this.
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>also, the game doesn't start in early 19th century, where boats were much more dominant for transporting large amounts of cargo
08:33<Diablo-D3>and some things should not be speed dependent
08:33<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: boats are still largely important
08:33<ctibor>boats are cheap in real life..
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but they lost a significant share to railway
08:33<Diablo-D3>almost all crude oil in the world is being moved by boat
08:33<Diablo-D3>and large cargo is also being shipped by boat.
08:34<Diablo-D3>openttd doesnt have a large cargo classification though
08:34<Ammler>Diablo-D3: there is larger ships mod available as grf
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08:34<Diablo-D3>ctibor: yes and no
08:34<Diablo-D3>theres two or three really large cargo boat companies
08:34<Ammler>oh, you don't want to use newgrfs, you wanna have everyhing in default openttd :-)
08:34<ctibor>magine factory that would produce large cargo... special carriages needed, slow speed :-)
08:35<Diablo-D3>almost all other boats are privately owned
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>"Castor Transport" :)
08:35<Diablo-D3>such as the vast oil fleets
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>"has to stop every 2 tiles due to protesters" :p
08:35<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: hahahaha
08:35<Diablo-D3>also, is there a mod for fishing?
08:36<ctibor>Eddi|zuHause: that would be toxic or nuclear waste
08:36<__ln__>yeah, nucular waste would be a great new cargo type
08:36<ctibor>uranium mine -> nuclear plant -> nuclear waste ftw!
08:36<Diablo-D3>that seems rather redundant actually
08:36<Diablo-D3>we already have coal and copper
08:36<Diablo-D3>do we really need yet another mining type?
08:36<ctibor>dump it to the sea ;-)
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: yes and no, the first "newindustries" grf has a fishing ground, but openttd lacks the feature to use buoys as loading stations
08:37<Diablo-D3>copper is a standin for all production use metals
08:37<Diablo-D3>and coal is a standin for all energy use shit
08:37<Diablo-D3>I dont think openttd would gain if people started adding even more
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: seriously, have you tried ANY grfs at all?
08:37<Diablo-D3>I mean, you'd need to deliver coal to steel plants
08:37<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: some
08:37<ctibor>Well it is probably true that the waste from normal coal power plant is toxic too
08:38<Diablo-D3>ctibor: well, if you start doing that, then openttd needs other company aspects
08:38<Diablo-D3>such as letting people be energy companies instead of transport companies
08:38<ctibor>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, then firing up coal in power plant doesn't seem right when there is limited amount of it in the mine :-)
08:38<Diablo-D3>and Im not sure openttd needs that.
08:39<Diablo-D3>btw, anyone try heqs?
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>i did, but not much...
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>i'm too much into trains
08:39<Diablo-D3>I dont get the point if it doesnt replace the traditional types
08:40<Diablo-D3>thats another thing I dont like about openttd
08:40<Diablo-D3>theres too many normal trucks doing big truck tasks
08:40<ctibor>Diablo-D3: I don't see any change in the game, where power plant would produce new cargo type such as toxic waste, it won't be any different from factory or rafinery
08:40<Diablo-D3>ctibor: yeah, but it focuses on an aspec that doesnt belong in ottd
08:40<Diablo-D3>same reason ottd doesnt have wars.
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>different reason
08:41<Diablo-D3>imagine terrorists hijacking one of your planes and flying it into a city
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>you can't stop things like town growth etc. when waste is not transported
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>so introducing waste is useless
08:42<Diablo-D3>its just ugly aspects of industrialization that doesnt really belong in ottd
08:42<ctibor>well the power plant would refuse new coal, but that is beyond original concept
08:42<Diablo-D3>I dont like the fact trains and crash into cars either
08:42<ctibor>but for some newgrf it would be nice idea IMO
08:43<Diablo-D3>or ufos
08:43<ctibor>I turn UFOs off...
08:44<Diablo-D3>Im just saying, those shouldnt exist at all
08:44<Diablo-D3>death shouldnt happen in openttd
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08:44<TinoDidriksen>So, disable it from options?
08:45<Diablo-D3>TinoDidriksen: it shouldnt be an option.
08:45<Diablo-D3>"realism" would make a great newgrf.
08:45<Diablo-D3>but it doesnt seem like something the core game should handle.
08:46<TinoDidriksen>Then it wouldn't be TTD any longer...planes crash, trains crash, etc, if you don't maintain the network.
08:46<ctibor>Diablo-D3: I like more when the game has lots of features to set up .-)
08:46<Diablo-D3>what newgrfs should I add, anyhow?
08:46<ctibor>iirc in simutrans the trains can go into another. But I played it very long ago...
08:47<Diablo-D3>Ive added metro track set, egrvts, bigger depots, av8, and industrial stations renewal
08:47<ctibor>Diablo-D3: try pikkindw.grf, Pikkabirds base industries, they are really worth to try
08:47<Diablo-D3>btw, did the bug that limited the number of things get fixed?
08:48<ctibor>Because secondary industries are built near the cities, it allows to build nice networks. Or rather the networks I like :-)
08:49<Diablo-D3>I remember a bug in early openttd that there could only be so many kinds of trains or cars or whatever because the internal id setup was retarded
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08:49<SpComb^>not retarded
08:49<ctibor>Diablo-D3: never had problem with that...
08:53<ctibor>The feature that wuld be really killer for me is that realistic bi-directional tracks that were proposed some long time ago but are apparently too difficult to implement.
08:54<ctibor>When I am retired in some 40-50 years, I would learn to code and make it happen ;-)
08:54<SpComb^>in 40-50 years, OpenTTD...
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08:57<Eddi|zuHause>ctibor: problem is reservation management
08:57<ctibor>Eddi|zuHause: I know... I discussed it earlier and read all the posts about it...
08:58<ctibor>Diablo-D3: As to the speeds see
08:59<Diablo-D3>ctibor: I dont see pikkabird's stuff in the content downloader
09:00<ctibor>you must download it manually i think
09:00<Ammler>search for pikka
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>if in doubt, use grfcrawler
09:02*ctibor is back to learnin the stuff for exam
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>i have a headache...
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'm getting ill... didn't sleep well either
09:06<Diablo-D3>the ECS stuff looks nuts
09:07<SpComb^>I felt pretty horrible for a while yesterday after drinking some coffe with a bunch of coffe grounds in it
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09:41<Sacro>501 HELO requires domain address
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09:43<murr4y>RCPT TO murray@hell
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09:46<TrueBrain>550 RELAY DENIED - NO ROUTE
09:47<SirSquidness>You broke it, TrueBrain
09:47<TrueBrain>I always do
09:47<TrueBrain>it is my job!
09:47<SirSquidness>I hope you don't have commit privs on the SVN :P
09:47<TrueBrain>guess again
09:48-!-Zahl [~Zahl@2002:4e33:503e:1:87f:67d6:c21d:868b] has joined #openttd
09:49<TrueBrain>in your pants
09:51<TrueBrain>welcome Zahl
09:51<Zahl>goodday everyone
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11:34<Ammler>peter1138: does excluding blitters from dedicated version really improve performance? Else I would request a revert of your commit. ;-)
11:36<TrueBrain>enable it manually
11:36<TrueBrain>if you fancy it so much
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11:36<TrueBrain>useless to compile something that should never be used :)
11:36<Ammler>yes, we already do
11:37<Ammler>Well, it is kinda neat to make screens on the server :-)
11:37<TrueBrain>neat: yes; requirement for a dedicated: no
11:38<Ammler>yeah, if it hurts, it is better, nvm. We just try to use as few patches as possible...
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11:40<TrueBrain>the only 'sane' thing I can see, is that you can do: --with-blitters
11:40<TrueBrain>or what ever
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11:40<TrueBrain>but it should never be something that is on by default for a dedicated, that is just silly
11:41<Ammler>never say never :-P
11:42<@peter1138>it makes the build smaller
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11:42<@peter1138>you can request reverts as much as you like. i won't revert it.
11:42<Ammler>oh well, that was the question, all fine :-)
11:43<TrueBrain>Ammler: well, you can request what I suggest ;)
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11:48<Ammler>It is already very cool to be able to make screen on dedicated. Thanks anyway.
11:49<TrueBrain>btw: never
11:49<TrueBrain>:p :p :p
11:49<TrueBrain>(I am such a child)
11:49<Ammler>oh well, I hope so...
11:50<TrueBrain>I can blow at all 5 candles on my birthday cake!
11:50<Ammler>How many go off?
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11:51<Eddi|zuHause>they're trick candles, they burn more when you blow at them :p
11:51<TrueBrain>NO THEY ARE NOT
11:51<@Rubidium>they asplode
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12:21<alos>hello =)
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12:22<TrueBrain>hello alos
12:22<alos>I was just seeing the lack of developers for the Mac OS port
12:22<alos>has this been fixed?
12:23<TrueBrain>I guess the lack of Mac OSX nightlies and the fact the topic is still open says it all :) But no, that is not 'fixed'
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>a bunch of people have said they'd try something, but i haven't seen anything real come out of that
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12:24<alos>I'm not an expert in Objective-C/Cocoa
12:24<alos>but if no one else is willing to help
12:24<alos>I can try
12:24<TrueBrain>so get to work, I suggest ;) Hehe :)
12:25<alos>So, yeah, I was wondering if there is a document or something explaining the Mac OS code or the procedure or something
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12:25<TrueBrain>src/os/macosx has all files/documentation/information/code/...
12:26<TrueBrain> has all the bugs/problems/issues/outstanding-fixes
12:28<TrueBrain>and now I am going to enjoy my dinner ... hamhamhamham
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12:29<Eddi|zuHause>"Guten Hunger"
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12:31<alos>ok, I'm downloading the source code
12:32<alos>I think I've found what I needed here:
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>that probably needs updating as well
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>people have been reporting trouble getting liblzo2
12:34<planetmaker><Eddi|zuHause> a bunch of people have said they'd try something, but i haven't seen anything real come out of that <-- that's IMO the most prominant outcome and most concise summary possible :-)
12:35<planetmaker>he, yeah.
12:35<planetmaker>That lib sucks hell.
12:35<alos>am a newb developer in Mac OS
12:35<alos>but I can try
12:35<planetmaker>I tend to ignore that lib meanwhile ;-)
12:36<alos>I mostly code in Java
12:36<planetmaker>even though I *could* move it to the place where config finds it.
12:36-!-Sacro [~ben@] has quit [Quit: Sacro]
12:36<planetmaker>But... having to do that seems bad to me. As macports should be considered a default location.
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: or you could update configure to look at the place where it installs?
12:37<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes. But that's where I'm notoriously bad at.
12:37<planetmaker>But that's the solution which I'd consider proper
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12:38<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: isn't that a matter of adding a directory to the library/include paths?
12:38<planetmaker>I guess so.
12:38<planetmaker>But I always get that wrong somehow. But yes, the /opt/... dirs are in my common search path
12:42<SpComb>feature request: empty out the initial group name in the text dialogue when creating a new vehicle group
12:47<SmatZ>SpComb: no renaming works this way
12:47<SmatZ>it could be done though
12:47<SpComb>creating a new group...
12:47<SmatZ>I mean
12:48<SmatZ>it has always the "automatic" name filled in
12:48<SmatZ>like, when renaming a vehicle
12:48<SpComb>well, there's a "Create new group" button which pops up the edit box right away
12:48<SmatZ>I know
12:48<SmatZ>the idea is reasonable :)
12:48<SpComb>which is different from, say, vehicles
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12:51<Eddi|zuHause>*mental note* don't drop the keyboard
12:54<SmatZ>SpComb: like this?
12:55<SpComb>perhaps, perhaps
12:55<SmatZ>it will show empty query even when renaming group with default name
12:56<SmatZ>I am not sure if that's the right thing to do
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13:34<Eddi|zuHause>and clicking "OK" with empty name will apply the default name?
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13:45<SmatZ>@openttd commit 18981
13:45<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r18981 trunk/src/group_gui.cpp (2010-02-01 18:38:28 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Change: show empty query after creating new group (instead of 'Group nnn')
13:45<SmatZ>SpComb: ^^^
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14:05*glx kicks CIA-1
14:06*TrueBrain kick CIA-1 harder
14:06<TrueBrain>just because he can :)
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14:10<Osai>hey TB
14:10<frosch123>well, it's no rover
14:10<Osai>why did you leave the dune channel?
14:11<TrueBrain>I am in #opendune :)
14:11<@Rubidium>no, this is #openttd
14:11<TrueBrain>wrong turn
14:11-!-TrueBrain [~patric@] has left #openttd [sorry about that]
14:11<Osai>lol :D
14:12<planetmaker>hm... I wonder... I guess I could now make a track set and not worry about different undergrounds anymore, is that right?
14:13<planetmaker>re-using the existing ground tile and drawing a semi-transparent ground tile with only the track or road over it.
14:13<frosch123>that part is not trunkified afaik
14:13<planetmaker>that's what I'm asking :-)
14:14<planetmaker>I could define a track. So I can also define new graphics for that track I guess, or?
14:15<frosch123>you can do that with the hg repo
14:15<planetmaker>oh, that :-)
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14:17<planetmaker>I thought I could already combine r18969 and r18959
14:17<planetmaker>hm... ah. It says houses, stations and industries...
14:18<planetmaker>missed that :-)
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14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r18981 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Change: show empty query after creating new group (instead of 'Group nnn')
14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r18982 /trunk/ -Remove: - no active dev uses it, modifying it causes breakage when it's used to update
14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r18983 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 11 changes by josesun
14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by habell
14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: greek - 9 changes by fumantsu
14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 4 changes by BlinK_
14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 2 changes by CyberKenny
14:30<db48x>SmatZ: what I'd like to see is a button in the route window that lets me name the group containing all vehicles on that route
14:34<SmatZ>db48x: you can create new group, move one vehicle there and the use "Move vehicles with shared orders to this group" function
14:35<db48x>that's more steps
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14:55<@Belugas>i want a button "play for me"
14:56*planetmaker wants rather the button "write thesis"
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14:57<Muxy>What about a "Eat For Me" one ?
14:57<planetmaker>good one. Though I currently enjoy quite eating for myself.
14:58<@Belugas>which is less ambiguous than "eating myself"
14:58<Muxy>Next one will be "Sleep for me" while im doing somehting else
14:58*Belugas votes for "write thesis" or "finish work for me"
14:58<planetmaker>hm... both is currently true ;-)
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14:58<planetmaker>Muxy, that'd be good, too, indeed.
14:59<Muxy>and the disabled one : "Watch movie for me"
14:59<frosch123>actually i am happy noone drinks the coffee for me
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15:05<Terkhen>I'd vote for a "study for me" button, but I doubt it would help me
15:06<@Belugas>not in my case, at least...
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>anybody have an "enlist for exam" button for me?
15:11<@Belugas>ho... wish list! i want a "Obtain a salary raise"
15:12<frosch123>paid in coffee?
15:12<@Belugas>i was about to write a pay raise, but my wife has indeed a tendancy to raise the number of times she pays for stuff...
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15:12<@Belugas>frosch123, coffee is free here ;)
15:12<frosch123>hehe, most important :p
15:18<@Belugas>quite :D
15:19<db48x>would anyone be interested in commiting my patch from flyspray bug 2719?
15:19<db48x>it makes the teraform tools more helpful to the user
15:19<frosch123>we don't commit bugs
15:19<@Belugas>otherwise, if we had to pay than we'd be so poor...
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15:21<frosch123>but you already have a point as you seem to know the difference between tab and space :)
15:21<@Belugas>mmh... ive' checked that patch a while ago
15:21<frosch123>it could make use of some SmallVector
15:21<frosch123>instead of adding the stuff manually to a static array
15:23<@Rubidium>I'm not so sure whether this is really useful, especially because it adds a O(n) function to tile drawing
15:24<frosch123>yeah, that is a drawback
15:25<db48x>true, for an n that is usually 0
15:26<db48x>I could make it a hash instead, but that would have a constant cost even if n is zero
15:27<frosch123>better add some bounding box for a negative check
15:27<@Rubidium> <- sorry, but something is *very* broken
15:28<@Rubidium>there's not even a tunnel on the map
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15:29<db48x>the string names changed sometime since I last updated the patch, perhaps I messed them up
15:30<@Rubidium>sorry, but as you can see in the image there is nothing that would hold back lowering that tile there
15:30<@Rubidium>1) there's no tunnels
15:30<@Rubidium>2) it's not the lowest tile
15:30<@Rubidium>3) there's nothing on the top of the hills
15:31<db48x>yes, I must have broken it
15:31-!-Grelouk_ [] has joined #openttd
15:31<@Rubidium>and if I get it on the first terraform I try, I must be extremely lucky or the patch isn't tested that well
15:32<@Rubidium>note: my logs show that last time I looked at the patch something similar must've occured
15:33<planetmaker>how do you log all your tests you surely must do, Rubidium ?
15:33<@Rubidium>irc logs
15:33<planetmaker>aye :-)
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15:37<TrueBrain>logging IRC conversations is very powerful :)
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15:38<Eddi|zuHause>i thought you left? :)
15:38<TrueBrain>you like me gone, don't you? :(
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15:39<Eddi|zuHause>no, i missed you the instant you left :(
15:39<TrueBrain>that is much better :)
15:39<TrueBrain>fake, but better
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15:39<Eddi|zuHause>hey, i totally mean that :p
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15:40<@Belugas>i want to commit this patch, i want to commit this patch, i want to commit this patch!!!
15:40<TrueBrain>Belugas: let me revoke your SSH access, that should solve that urge
15:44<@Rubidium>removal from the vcs group would help too
15:44-!-PeterT_ [] has joined #openttd
15:44<TrueBrain>remove him from the Developers group too
15:44<TrueBrain>from PAM-Web too
15:44<TrueBrain>ban his IP too
15:44<TrueBrain>owh, I can think up so many ways
15:45<TrueBrain>but that is kind of besides the point here :)
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15:50*Belugas was talking about a patch at work...
15:50<@Belugas>of course of course...
15:50<TrueBrain>you make patches for work?!
15:50<TrueBrain>:) :)
15:50*TrueBrain hugs Belugas
15:50*TrueBrain hugs Rubidium
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15:52<@Rubidium>I even make patches for Debian and Ubuntu, though Ubuntu doesn't want my patches for some reason
15:52<TrueBrain>hello _Ben_ :)
15:52-!-heffer [] has joined #openttd
15:52<TrueBrain>Rubidium: why not?
15:52<@Rubidium>and I once made a patch for the Linux kernel :)
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>how'd that go? :p
15:52<@Rubidium>it got included :)
15:53<_Ben_>question: does anyone know the railway set which all I can really remember about it is that it's generally a light grey colour, and part of an eastern european set? I can't find the name of it anywhere.
15:53<@Rubidium>although it was so extremely trivial somewhere along the way the 'credits' if you may call it that were lost
15:53<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: <- I don't know why they don't like it. But if they don't care, I don't care
15:54<frosch123>_Ben_: CSRails or so
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15:54<TrueBrain>Rubidium: you were too fast!
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>_Ben_: probably to be found at
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15:57<@Rubidium>anyhow the kernel patch was just adding a PCI ID to some table
15:57<_Ben_>frosch123/Eddi|zullause: Yeah thats the one! thanks a lot
15:57<_Ben_>TrueBrain: Hi, havn't spoken to you in quite a while!
15:58<_Ben_>anyway, I must head straight off, chears for that guys
15:58-!-_Ben_ [~Ben@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:58<TrueBrain>not meant bad, but have I ever spoken with him in the first place?
15:58<TrueBrain>poor memory for names
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>ben is 32bpp artist
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15:59<TrueBrain>ah! Tnx :)
15:59<TrueBrain>hmmm ... I now have a file with the name �?^T^H^P^[^E
15:59<TrueBrain>how am I going to remove that?
16:00<frosch123>rm -i *
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>ls --show-control-chars | grep -v <anything intelligible> | xargs rm
16:00<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, used that approach, worked :)
16:02<PeterT>nooo SmatZ
16:02<PeterT>you removed!
16:02<TrueBrain>guys, I think OpenTTD needs a new approach: STOP TOUCHING ANYTHING ... 3rd person in 2 days complaining about things removed ... (nothing against you PeterT, you are just the 3rd person about something)
16:03<PeterT>Sorry, but I actually used it
16:03<PeterT>who were the first two people, and what did they complain about?
16:03<TrueBrain>so make a local copy :)
16:03<TrueBrain>read back the logs if you care (enough)
16:03<PeterT>that's not a solution, that's just an excuse
16:03<PeterT>it's not like was causing size problems
16:03<TrueBrain>no, it is a solution
16:04<TrueBrain>an excuse sounds like: well, it had to be removed, because ...
16:04<TrueBrain>you can dislike the solution, that is an option :) The other 2 also disliked the solution given :p
16:05<db48x>Rubidium: fixed it. now I'll look into SmallVector
16:05<PeterT>what was the nick of the people that were complaing, TrueBrain?
16:06<PeterT>So I can search
16:06<TrueBrain>forgot, and don't care (enough)
16:10<@Belugas>TrueBrain, not exactly :) we do commit our work in VCS
16:10<TrueBrain>wauw ... progressing company you work for :)
16:11<Yexo>PeterT: the first was luukland
16:11<@Rubidium>Belugas: VCS or CVS?
16:11<planetmaker>who else? ;-)
16:11<@Belugas>hem... VSS
16:11*PeterT giggles
16:11<PeterT>»» 07:58:37 < Diablo-D3> its not a bad "feature", its just woefully hyperactive.
16:11<@Belugas>Visual Source Safe
16:11<PeterT>»» 07:58:42 < TrueBrain> is this Luukland with another name? :p
16:12<@Rubidium>ah... Visual Source Scrammbler :)
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16:15<PeterT>aww, the logs about luukland are just beyond the 1000 line limit
16:16-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@] has joined #openttd
16:17<frosch123>too bad, you cannot enter any number
16:17-!-sparrL [] has joined #openttd
16:18<sparrL>someone told me the number of named bus stations in a town affects its growth rate
16:18<sparrL>would that be a server modification or is that normal?
16:20<@Rubidium>named as in "independent"?
16:21<@Rubidium>then yes, up to a given amount
16:21<frosch123>remove "bus" and add "serviced" instead
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16:23<sparrL>so five stations at all?
16:24<sparrL>doesn't matter what they carry, so long as they are visited?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>oh great, the reflex for applied data destruction struck again
16:26<PeterT>SmtZ: Can you please send me the magic-bulldozer patch they use on the #openttdcoop servers?
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16:41<Zuu>Is there a character that is taller than the pipe ( | ) in the normal OpenGFX font?
16:43-!-asilv [] has quit []
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16:46<@Belugas>yeah, VSS is something not entirely trustworthy
16:46<@Belugas>but it keeps on working nicely, so far. just that you need some backuos, in the safe side
16:47<@Belugas>besides, OpenTTD had a crash once, using CVS, so nothing is perfect ;)
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16:49<sparrL>so, in addition to 5 stations, do pax/goods delivery matter?
16:49<TrueBrain>Belugas: using SVN, but yes :p
16:49<TrueBrain>and that 'crash' was due to hardware failure
16:50<TrueBrain>and a randsom to access the data again :p
16:50<TrueBrain>apple .. peaches .. :)
16:50<@Belugas>SVN? you're sure? i was under the impression that Ludde used CVS
16:50<@Belugas>ho well...
16:50<TrueBrain>@openttd commit 1
16:50<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
16:50<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
16:50<@Rubidium>yeah, before SVN there was CVS
16:51<TrueBrain>before my time :)
16:51<@peter1138>CVS doesn't exist
16:51<@Belugas>so it was a pre-975 first revisions,then?
16:51-!-Tennel [~Tennel@] has joined #openttd
16:51<TrueBrain>(damn, I am here 5+ years already? Almost 5.5 .... omg .....)
16:51<@Belugas>that is CSV?
16:52<TrueBrain>CSV is something completely different :p
16:55<sparrL>what defines "in" a town for the 5 station requirement?
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>the name that is given to the town by default
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>more specifically: the town name that is contained in the default station name
16:56<@orudge>CVS does exist :p
16:57<TrueBrain>cool :) Didn't know you kept that around :)
16:57<@orudge>I have a few random checkouts of the old crashed SVN too
16:57<@orudge>although not the repository itself, alas
16:57<@Rubidium> <- that too, proves SF uses nginx too
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>yay for never throwing anything away :)
16:58<TrueBrain> <- woesh!
16:58<@orudge>TrueBrain: complicated stuff :)
16:58<@orudge>"loads of changes
16:58-!-Phalax [~kvirc@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:58<@orudge>"huge changes"
16:58<TrueBrain>more 1 function :)
16:58<@peter1138>sounds like a rigs of rods commit
16:58<TrueBrain>who is 'cobraa1' ?
16:58<@Rubidium>peter1138: englich?
16:59<@orudge>CobraA1 was, hmm
16:59<@orudge>a guy who was around at the very beginning, basically :p
16:59<@orudge>at the time, I think everything was a bit of a free-for-all on the forums
17:00<@orudge>a few developers who showed interest were given commit access
17:00<@orudge>then Ludde came back as he found people liked things
17:00<@orudge>and took matters back into his own hands
17:00<@orudge>vurlix and others joined in
17:00<@orudge>and OpenTTD as we know it began to take shape
17:00-!-Grelouk_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:00<TrueBrain>tell us more grandpa! :)
17:00<@Rubidium> /topic OpenTTD history channel
17:00<TrueBrain>(sorry, I had to :p)
17:01<TrueBrain> <- so much fun to read :)
17:01<TrueBrain>hardcoded :p
17:01<@orudge>back in the day though, we still had to go to school every way in the snow uphill both ways though
17:01<Prof_Frink>In the beginning was the Game, and the Game was with Chris, and the Game was Chris.
17:01*andythenorth just lost the game :|
17:01<@orudge>and then there was the Ludde who reverse engineered it
17:02<Prof_Frink>orudge: Oi. You just missed the entire Drexler Testament.
17:02*orudge goes to visit the Church
17:02-!-Bluelight [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]]
17:03<@orudge>along with the "based on the original coding of Oskar Eisemuth"-ified OpenTTD page
17:03<@orudge>which I found somewhat ironic, since I thought Oskar wanted to be completely unassociated with OpenTTD
17:03<@orudge>but ah well
17:04<@orudge>And the Lord Chris spake words to Microprose. Saith he: "I've got this rather cool idea for a game," and verily, Microprose saith unto the Lord Chris, "Thou shouldst go for it, chumblybum."
17:04<@orudge>And on the fifth day He had a terrific hangover, but still managed to code the computer's Artificial Intelligence. And He looked at the AI algorithms and thought, "These are pretty crappy" but His headache was so bad He left them as they were.
17:05<rait>is that the official version of the story? :)
17:05-!-TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:05<@orudge>rait: yep, just look at the Bible on that page ;)
17:06<TrueBrain>we as OpenTTD do not acknowledge it!!! :p
17:06<@orudge>tsk, you separatists! :p
17:07<andythenorth>I know some people who worked at Microprose in the '90s. Wonder if they know what *really* happened :o
17:08-!-[com]buster [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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17:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but if they told you, they'd have to shoot you :p
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>the TT manual had some bits in it on how The Game came to be
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>unfortunately, i lost the box with the manual...
17:20-!-Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:22<Zuu>Any other ideas than white background for highlighting a line in the AI Debug window?,%202%20jan%201957.png
17:22<Ammler> <-- Eddi|zuHause on the bottom
17:23<PeterT>Zuu: What version are you using for that?
17:23<Zuu>PeterT: 18960M ;-)
17:24<PeterT>That's an interesting feature
17:24<Zuu>Its this patch:
17:24-!-[alt]buster [] has joined #openttd
17:24<planetmaker>:-P Zuu: you could use yellow as well.
17:24<planetmaker>But the light gray / white background does look quite fine IMO. It's nicely visible but yet not too intrusive
17:24<Zuu>Have to check with the birght yellow text that it is readable.
17:25<planetmaker>You could use green-red for optimal contrast :-P
17:25<planetmaker>Especially a dark green on the default red.
17:25<Zuu>If you use a TTF font will you get the black shadings as you get with the default fonts?
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>especially nice for green-red-blind people :p
17:25<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, that's the bonus why I suggested it ;-)
17:26<Zuu>AIs can print in black, light yellow and red.
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>and great eyecandy for the other people :p
17:26<planetmaker>actually that's the reason I already altered the vehicle start/stop buttons in OpenGFX.
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>the colours or the shape?
17:27<planetmaker>red-green impaired people saw no difference between the green and red blob
17:27<planetmaker>now it's a green dot and a red cross
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>an x-cross or a +-cross?
17:28<planetmaker>the latest nightly of OpenGFX should have it ;-)
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>i think there are places where the "zomg, must be different from original" bits are inappropriate
17:28-!-[com]buster [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:28-!-[alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
17:29<planetmaker>the green tick is something I tried but NOT use ;-)
17:29<Zuu>Hmm, the yellow text on the white background isn't very good. I can read the text but if there is a font without black shades then those users will have a problem.
17:30<planetmaker>well. yellow on white is always a bad idea
17:30<Terkhen>I was thinking of suggesting something like that cross :)
17:30<planetmaker>there was also the suggestion of a stopp - sign - like shape.
17:30<planetmaker>Alas... undistinguishable from round - which it was before.
17:30<Zuu>Hmm, purple should work quite good. Or pink .. :-p
17:30-!-NekoMaster [] has joined #openttd
17:31<NekoMaster>hello peoples
17:31<Terkhen>as long as it looks nice and I can distinguish stop from start... :P
17:31*SpComb hacks up roundup
17:31<@peter1138>the weed killer?
17:31<planetmaker>Terkhen, that should now easily be possible x vs o is fine :-)
17:31<NekoMaster>*stomac rumbles*
17:31<SpComb>peter1138: roundup?
17:31<planetmaker>we have no food here, NekoMaster
17:32<NekoMaster>I do
17:32<NekoMaster>im just lazy
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: could have used "pause" (||) and "play" (>) signs?
17:32<planetmaker>hm... also a good suggestion actually. Yes, I could have, but it'd need re-drawing to the scale of those buttons.
17:33<planetmaker>not a big issue, though.
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>or horizontal and vertical arrow
17:33<planetmaker>I thought about that. I found that not very clear.
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>feature request: stopping aircraft mid-air should make them circle
17:36<planetmaker>hm... if newgrf airports are like industries... could they accept fuel?
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm... so i have about 200GB free spread over at least 4 disks... need to increase that to 400GB somehow...
17:36<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: rm -rf /media/disk/filme
17:37<NekoMaster>: \
17:37<planetmaker>sudo rm -rf / is sure to work for 100%
17:37<andythenorth>planetmaker: from what I've seen so far, yes. If they are 'public' using the industry implementation.
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: usually, rm should be protected against removing /
17:37-!-llugo [] has joined #openttd
17:37<NekoMaster>that would be cool if depots and ports could except petrol or fuel oil
17:37<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, should it for root?
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it should especially for root...
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: anybody else shouldn't have right to delete / anyway
17:39<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, easy: make it not writeable for root.
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that's about 400GB, alright ;)
17:41<SpComb>peter1138: roundup is a is generic build-your-own-issue-tracker toolkit with some kind of weird UI and database features
17:41<@Rubidium>I would've gone for at least 260 GIB :)
17:41<SpComb>peter1138: the devs just left in some hardcoded bits by accident, some weird defaults and then some ugly hacked together auxilliary scripts
17:41<andythenorth>bedtime. for me anyway. you lot can choose for yourselves :P
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: luckily that one missed ~/serien, /mnt/zeug/serien and /media/disk/serien ;)
17:42<Zuu>Hmm, why is TC_BLUE more black than TC_BLACK?
17:42<TrueBrain>thank you andythenorth, that is nice of you :)
17:43<TrueBrain>sleep well
17:43-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
17:44<planetmaker>he... he still didn't understand the principle of a bouncer...
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>"ey, du kommst hier nich rein"?
17:44-!-lugo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>"bouncer" == "guy in front of club, that bounces off people"
17:46*Zuu changes back to TC_BLUE to get a black rectangle
17:46<planetmaker>oh... :-) that kind of bouncer
17:47<planetmaker>"ey, alder, Du kommscht ier nischt rrein!" would be propper spelling, though ;-)
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>maybe down south ;)
17:48<planetmaker>or in Kreuzberg
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>damn... i forgot scrubs again...
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: "kommscht" i would place into swabia...
17:49<Zuu>Btw, does anyoen know why rubyforge is so slow or has I just got the wrong mirror?
17:50<TrueBrain>it always has been slow for me
17:50<Zuu> <-- stalls all the time for me.
17:50<@Rubidium>Zuu: rubyforge is part of sourceforge?
17:50<Zuu>I don't know if it is a part of sourceforge.
17:51-!-oskari89 [] has quit [Quit: Untenmaa, Utm A½ - Aja 35 Odota seis]
17:51<Zuu>sf at least gives you the files as user of their service.
17:51<Zuu>I uninstalled my ruby installation before I had the installer downloaded, that was a big mistake it seems. :-p
17:52<Zuu>I've got a binary installation now that is just a zip file, but that would require me to set up all the file bindings myself.
17:53<TrueBrain> <- faster? :p
17:53<NekoMaster>hey guys
17:53<TrueBrain>took 1.1 seconds to download :o
17:53<Zuu>Yes, thank you
17:53<TrueBrain>hello NekoMaster
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>weird... i have a backup of a hard drive, and the image is 32GB, but i don't remember ever having a hard drive of that size
17:53<TrueBrain>Zuu: please let me know when I can remove it :)
17:54<TrueBrain>and gone it is :)
17:54<Zuu>Took 1-2 seconds from your link. :-)
17:54<TrueBrain>peerings .. you got to love them :)
17:54<NekoMaster>Eddi|zuHause: Its probably just the total size of the files from the HD back up
17:54-!-thingwath [~thingwath@] has quit [Quit: Omgwtf já su píča.]
17:55<TrueBrain>and now I wish you all a very good night
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>NekoMaster: thanks for your very worthless input.
17:55<planetmaker>g'night TrueBrain
17:55<NekoMaster>: |
17:55<planetmaker>sleep well
17:55<NekoMaster>Hey, im using my knowledge of computers
17:56<@Rubidium>yeah, going to bed seems a good thing to do
17:56<planetmaker>indeed. Have everyone a good night. I'm off, too :-)
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>even weirder, when i mount the image, the partition is only 21GB in size...
17:59<NekoMaster>whats it end in?
17:59<NekoMaster>vhd? vdi?
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>in whatever came to my mind when i made it...
17:59<NekoMaster>I ment the extension
18:00<NekoMaster>eg. Disk.vdi
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>exactly what i meant, as well
18:00<NekoMaster>: \
18:01-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:01<NekoMaster>maybe the hd image is from a Virtual PC program like VBOX or VMware
18:01<NekoMaster>: \
18:01-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
18:02<NekoMaster>Eddi|zuHause: maybe the hd image is from a Virtual PC program like VBOX or VMware
18:03-!-aber [] has left #openttd []
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>please, i'm trying to remember when i made this... i know exactly _how_ i made it, because i only ever made these images in one way...
18:06-!-Rubix`` [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:06<NekoMaster>any one here on linux?
18:06<PeterT>I am
18:06<NekoMaster>: \
18:07<NekoMaster>This chat is dead...
18:07<PeterT>you should've seen the amount of people in the past hour
18:07<NekoMaster>I mean, nothing really interesting is being discussed
18:07<PeterT>what's interesting for you is different than what's interesting for others
18:08<NekoMaster>is the chat interesting right now for you Peter?
18:08<Zuu>Anyway I don't understand why I am trying to get the ruby gem win32-clipboard to work. I've already made a c++ program using Win32 API instead..
18:08-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@] has joined #openttd
18:09<Zuu>(I'm working with a program where the only way to do text-based exports is to copy the out data to the clipboard)
18:10-!-Rubix`` [] has joined #openttd
18:10<NekoMaster>Hmm... so, anyone here on a 32bit linux?
18:10<rait>need testing or something?
18:10<NekoMaster>I made a cargodist build
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>obviously not...
18:10<Zuu>I have two linux 32bit installations, but I seldome use them.
18:10<NekoMaster>its in the cargo dist thread
18:10-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:11<Zuu>And possible some more installations laying around on spare HDs.
18:11-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
18:11<NekoMaster>Is it ok if I post a link here?
18:12<db48x>what do you need to test?
18:12<PeterT>people will test it, NekoMaster
18:13<NekoMaster>I just wanna know if it works for others
18:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: terkhen * r18984 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp viewport_type.h): -Add: Viewport place methods for dragging a line with limited size.
18:13<NekoMaster>I tired it on puppy linux and it wouldn't work, even though nightlies and stables work
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 198/8
18:15<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 24.75
18:15<db48x>I'm not going to install a 32bit stdc library for that
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 216/9
18:15<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 24
18:16<db48x>the standard library
18:16<Terkhen>good night
18:16-!-Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
18:16<NekoMaster>oh, what do you need it for?
18:16-!-roboboy [] has joined #openttd
18:17-!-Sacro [~Sacro@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:17<db48x>the standard library is what provides all of the standard C functions
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 8*24
18:17<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 192
18:17<NekoMaster>Yeah, what...will openttd not run with out it?
18:17-!-Sacro [~ben@] has joined #openttd
18:17<NekoMaster>@calc 9*2
18:17<@DorpsGek>NekoMaster: 18
18:18<NekoMaster>: o
18:18<db48x>no C program will run without that library
18:18<NekoMaster>Yeah... I guess.
18:18<db48x>but since you produced a 32bit version of the program, I would need to install the 32bit version of the library
18:18<db48x>or you could statically link it
18:18<db48x>not sure if the makefile makes that easy or not
18:19<NekoMaster>statically link it? its gonna still be the same file
18:19<NekoMaster>Im guessing you (db48x) are on a 64 bit distro?
18:20-!-Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:20<db48x>yea, looks like you could configure with --enable-static
18:20<@Rubidium>statically linking to libc might not be very safe
18:21<@Rubidium>especially if libc uses stuff from a kernel that's newer than the kernel you're running on the other machine
18:22-!-DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
18:22<NekoMaster>Im on Ubuntu 9.10, im not sure about the kernal
18:23-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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18:24<db48x>anyway, why did it fail under puppy linux?
18:24<@Rubidium>because it uses dietlibc or so?
18:24<NekoMaster>it wouldn't open
18:25<NekoMaster>even though stables, nightlies, and testing would work
18:25<NekoMaster>I was running openttd 1.0.0 b3
18:25<db48x>well, it should give you an error message of some kind
18:25<NekoMaster>i clicked on it, and it did nothing
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>clicking never gives error messages
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>need to start it from the console
18:26<NekoMaster>Hmm? I don't know how to use the puppy linux consol, since its not based on any other distro
18:26<NekoMaster>its a distro of its own
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>how does that matter?
18:27-!-mib_l0ivet [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
18:27<NekoMaster>it doesnt use Debian\Ubuntu Terminal or Windows Command Line commands
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>the command to change directories is always "cd", and you start openttd always by "./openttd"
18:28<NekoMaster>anyways, im on Ubuntu Linux right now, Im jsut gonna leave puppy for portable stuff
18:28<NekoMaster>like when I goto school or other peoples places
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>and likely you compiled some dynamic libs where the official binaries use static libs
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>most prominently libicu
18:29<NekoMaster>yeah... its probably missing libraries on Puppy
18:30<@Rubidium>or... he linked with a too new libc for puppy
18:30<@Rubidium>after all, the compile farm uses Debian Lenny, which is ancient compared to Ubuntu 9.10
18:31<@Rubidium>(although arguably more secure)
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>hey, how can ubuntu not be secure!! it has all the latest stuff in it!!
18:31<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: right...
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>stuff is so new, people don't even know the loopholes yet! :p
18:32<@Rubidium>a fix for CVE-2009-4007?
18:32<@Rubidium>after all, they don't even package 0.7.5 (or 0.7.4)
18:32-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:32<@Rubidium>but Debian Lenny has a fix for CVE-2009-4007
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18:33<NekoMaster>hmm.... It would be cool if there was a patch to simulate real world econimy
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>you mean "totally ruin everybody every 6-10 years"?
18:34<NekoMaster>I mean
18:34<NekoMaster>1928 > Start of great depression
18:34<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: 0% interest loans ofcourse
18:34<NekoMaster>1970's to 1980's > Oil Scare (Depression)
18:35<NekoMaster>Around 2009 > Ression
18:35<NekoMaster>the lenght of the ressions and depressions would depend on which country you pick
18:35<SmatZ>like, Northern Korea
18:35<NekoMaster>that way if your trying to play Japan, you wont get the same effects that USA did or the UK
18:36<SmatZ>you start building commercial transport company
18:36<NekoMaster>Though, theres no north korean set yet
18:36<SmatZ>you get jailed and shot
18:36<SmatZ>the end
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>so, if i pick germany, the map is divided in half after a while?
18:36<NekoMaster>um, that would be more like a Bondry Patch, where it might show real boundries or simulated ones
18:37<@Rubidium>hmm, Japan isn't hit by last year's shit?
18:37-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:37<@Rubidium>sorry, but you need to redo your research
18:37-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>something's wrong with my connection
18:38<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: and for Iceland you've got a multi-billion dollar loan? :)
18:38<NekoMaster>But, when ression and depression comes around, industires may close down, some town buildings might be demolished,
18:38<NekoMaster>ther would be inflation
18:38<NekoMaster>so stuff would cost alot more
18:38<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: your connection is saying that you need some sleep
18:38<NekoMaster>If you're on WIFI that may be the problem
18:38<NekoMaster>or a bad router
18:39<@Rubidium>anyhow, a bit of inflation isn't bad
18:39<@Rubidium>lots of inflation, very little inflation or deflation are bad
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>high inflation is actually considered good for the economy, because the cost of workforce decreases
18:40<NekoMaster>one way to simulate inflation of the Dollar is change your currency to custome, use the $ symbol, and instead of 2 USD to a GBP make it a bit higher like 3 or 4 USD to a GBP
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>that's why they tried to keep inflation high after WWI
18:40<NekoMaster>it doesnt have to be the dollar anyways, it could be DM, Francs, Yen
18:41<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but there's a point where it isn't good anymore, e.g. Zimbabwe
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>of course they had no idea how things work, so they caused a hyperinflation
18:41<NekoMaster>Well, if inflation happen but the econemy was still good, then nothing bad happen
18:42*Rubidium wonders whether NekoMaster has any real knowledge about economy
18:42*NekoMaster is a 17yr old gr12 (senior) student
18:42<@Rubidium>changing the exchange rate has nothing to do with inflation
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18:43<NekoMaster>I know that, but when inflation happens the numbers for money seam bigger
18:43<NekoMaster>even if its the same currency
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>have you heard? in 2010, germany is finally free of debt from WWI ;)
18:44<NekoMaster>Is anyone here from Germany?
18:44<NekoMaster>Not me
18:44*NekoMaster is a Canadian
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>fun fact: in every country of the world, the passports state the country of origin ("Austria", "France", etc.). except in germany the passports say "german" and not "Germany"
18:45<Yexo>* Rubidium wonders whether NekoMaster has any real knowledge about economy <- I'm not wondering anymore, not after <NekoMaster> I know that, but when inflation happens the numbers for money seam bigger
18:45-!-[com]buster [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:46<NekoMaster>: \
18:46-!-[com]buster [] has joined #openttd
18:46<NekoMaster>Ok, fine, tell me how it works
18:47<SmatZ>Yexo: I failed with ENOPARSE with that sentence
18:48<Yexo>SmatZ: oh :(
18:48<Yexo>I'll just get some sleep I think
18:48<Yexo>gn all
18:48<PeterT>night Yexo
18:48-!-DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
18:48<@Rubidium>SmatZ: it just makes me think of
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>that has to do with WWII and it's outcome, because the german nationality is derived from "living in german empire on 31.12.1937", but that state doesn't exist anymore
18:49<SmatZ>Yexo: I mean the original sentence, not yours :)
18:49<SmatZ>Rubidium: hehe :-)
18:49<Yexo>SmatZ: ah, ok :)
18:49<Yexo>but it's still getting late :p
18:50<NekoMaster>Here its only 6:50PM (-5GMT)
18:51<NekoMaster>but its already pretty dark
18:51<NekoMaster>which is one reson to hate winter
18:51<Zuu>Then you are not very far north if it is only "pretty dark" at 6:50 :-)
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>neither of the post-WWII german states are official decendents of the german empire, and citizens of both states had a shared nationality
18:52<NekoMaster>I like on the shore of Lake Ontario in the City Of Oshawa
18:52<NekoMaster>its about a 40 Minute Drive on the high way to Toronto
18:52<NekoMaster>*live, not like
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>then Zuu is probably further north than you :p
18:53<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so someone born in Western Poland could get German in his/her passport?
18:53<Zuu>I checked up Vancouver, Canada is about the same amount north as north Germany.
18:54<Zuu>And the border between Canada and US is quite flat (north-south-wise) I think.
18:54<NekoMaster>I guess
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: no, the rule is "person or ancestor must have been living in germany on 31.12.1937"
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>i have read the exact paragraph somewhere...
18:56<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but if my grandfather was born in Western Poland on 30-12-1937?
18:56<@Rubidium>(what is now Western Poland ofcourse)
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yes, that would count
18:57<@Rubidium>hmm, two Frankfurts
18:58<Eddi|zuHause># Weil Frankfurt so groß ist, so teilt man's in zwei ein
18:58<Eddi|zuHause># In Frankfurt an der Oder und Frankfurt am Main
18:58<__ln__># zu groß
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: not the version i heard...
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19:01<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: yes, that was an ad hoc extension
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19:03<Zuu>Good night
19:03-!-Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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19:05<NekoMaster>what now?
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: why does your log replace "ß" with "ss"?
19:08<NekoMaster>Um, doesnt that symbol mean ss?
19:09<JVassie>but why not use "ß"?
19:09<NekoMaster>so... Großer would be Grosser
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>NekoMaster: yes, but that is not the point
19:09<JVassie>Strasse = Straße
19:10<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: curious, it does?
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: yeah, just check the few lines i posted above
19:11<NekoMaster>The reson why everyone doesn't use ß for ss is because not every one has that on their keyboard
19:11-!-Rubix`` [] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds]
19:11<NekoMaster>I have a Standard USA Media KeyBoard with a Euro sign on the 5 along with %
19:11<PeterT>I doubt that's the reason
19:11<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: looks like an irssi feature
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm... so what does it do with äöü?
19:12<NekoMaster>well Im not going to type in the ALT+NumKey code every time I need to do a ss
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>... apparently it replaces them with "???"
19:13<NekoMaster>those just show you have to pronounce those letters differntly
19:14<NekoMaster>French and Spanish have thouse, amongst other languages
19:14-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:15<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause joins and leaves too often...
19:15-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
19:15<SpComb>02:14 term_charset = ANSI_X3.4-1968
19:15<SpComb>I wonder how the hell I managed to do that
19:15<__ln__>does this mean the whole logs of all time have been translitterated by accident?
19:15<NekoMaster>um, more like his connection died to offten
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
19:15<SpComb>__ln__: not of all time, no
19:16<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: Why do you join so often?
19:16<__ln__>PeterT: please learn to read.
19:17<PeterT>__ln__: Did I ask you?
19:17-!-Rubix`` [] has joined #openttd
19:17<NekoMaster>If you look at the message when he leaves, it says (Remote host closed the connection)
19:17<NekoMaster>rather then (Quit: Leaving)
19:17<PeterT>So it's based on his crappy connection?
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>i don't join more often than i leave...
19:18<SpComb>terminal's a little weird still... invoking screen's utf8 magic "fixes" it
19:18<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: Eddi|zuHause couldn't decide whether to stay or go. 2639 joins during this reporting period!
19:18<PeterT>from the stats page
19:18<SpComb>I once tired to read screen's source code, for the utf8 bits... I couldn't make heads or tails of the code
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: how many days is that?
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>unless i have really bad connection, it the per-day ratio should be 1+epsilon
19:21<SpComb>bah, seems the encodings have been broken for a while
19:22<SpComb>probably since the first reboot of SpBot
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2639/1274
19:23<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 2.07142857143
19:23<SpComb>there's a cron @reboot that boots up screen + irssi, I assume that runs with some weird "terminal"
19:23<PeterT>@calc 123456789/987654321
19:24<NekoMaster>@calc 1*100/2
19:24<@DorpsGek>NekoMaster: 50
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: like i said, on average, it's not that bad...
19:24<NekoMaster>@calc 1F to C
19:24<@DorpsGek>NekoMaster: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
19:24<PeterT>I got it then
19:25<PeterT>hmm DorpsGek ignores me
19:25*PeterT fires up ChatZilla
19:25<NekoMaster>Im on Chatzilla
19:25<PeterT>Metal or Award :-P
19:25<NekoMaster>How about pie
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19:26<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: thanks for pointing it out, though
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>PS: these stats clearly support my point that the day does not end on midnight
19:27<PeterT_>@calc 123456789/987654321
19:27<@DorpsGek>PeterT_: 0.124999998861
19:27-!-PeterT_ [] has quit []
19:27<NekoMaster>no, the official day in your time zone ends at midnight, but your day doesnt end till you goto sleep
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>is it just me, or does ignore-circumvention warrant a ban?
19:27<SpComb>tomorrow -> to-morrow -> next morning
19:27-!-[alt]buster [] has joined #openttd
19:28<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: It was completely unfair to ignore me
19:28<SpComb>PeterT: do you *really* need DorpsGek? I can make do quite fine without...
19:29<PeterT>SpComb: For @seen, yes
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>NekoMaster: the stats clearly say that 6AM is the time of least activity
19:29<SpComb>PeterT: and @calc?
19:29<PeterT>not necesarry, no
19:29<SpComb>PeterT: then perhaps you see why you might have been blacklisted..
19:30<PeterT>SpComb: I'm not the only one who uses @calc
19:30<PeterT>SpComb: Ok
19:30<PeterT>SpComb: Don't you love being highlighted three times when you know I'm already talking to you? :-)
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: and you REALLY wonder why people ignore you? :p
19:32*SpComb creates a new ticket in his issue tracker on this conversation and assigns PeterT to the nosy list
19:32<NekoMaster>: o
19:32<SpComb>wouldn't it be fun if your issue tracker was integrated with IRC, so every time someone said something on IRC, you'd get an email?
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i want to get 10000 emails per day :p
19:33<NekoMaster>SpComb: no, cuase then your inbox would get so full
19:33<PeterT>that would be the greatest fun in the world
19:33-!-[com]buster [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:33<NekoMaster>especially for someone like me who hardly checks my mail
19:33<PeterT>then it would hardly be a problem for you
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19:34<Eddi|zuHause2>ok... that was a real disconnect, and i forgot to set the display variable again...
19:35<NekoMaster>Awesome! Locomotion works in wine!
19:36<NekoMaster>on Ubuntu!
19:36-!-welshdragon [~markmac@] has quit [Quit: welshdragon]
19:37<Ammler>some old windows games might work better with wine that on Windows7
19:37<Eddi|zuHause2>doesn't surprise me
19:37<Eddi|zuHause2>wine has become really good the last couple of years
19:37<NekoMaster>LoMo wouldn't work in Wine
19:37<NekoMaster>in a virtual machine
19:37<NekoMaster>it did back then, but recenlty not anymore
19:39<PeterT> empty
19:40-!-NekoMaster [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20100106054534]]
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19:41<PeterT>I missed you so much
19:41<NekoMaster>so what now?
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19:52<Diablo-D3>okay so
19:52<Diablo-D3>I take pikka's basic industries
19:52<Diablo-D3>bigger depots, av8, metro track, egrvts, and industrial stations renewal
19:52<Diablo-D3>and I think I should have an openttd thats fun to play
19:53<NekoMaster>What are you talking about?
19:53<KenjiE20|LT>metro and no 2cc?
19:53<Diablo-D3>KenjiE20|LT: should I throw 2cc in?
19:53<Diablo-D3>Im trying to get the most out of ottd without adding shit
19:53<KenjiE20|LT>well metro is mildly pointless without
19:53<NekoMaster>since 2cc set replaces the Monorails with Metro COmmuters
19:54<NekoMaster>Subway\El Trains
19:54<Diablo-D3>so what else should I add?
19:54<KenjiE20|LT>I'm not you
19:55<Diablo-D3>we need some sort of standardized awesome super-grf.
19:55<NekoMaster>: \
19:55<KenjiE20|LT>see my previous statement as to why that's a bad idea
19:57<Diablo-D3>I'm mildly interested in heqs
19:58<NekoMaster>HEQs has REAL dump trucks
19:58<Diablo-D3>seems to make road vehicles interesting for once
19:58<NekoMaster>not a Pick up truck or a Euro Style Truck with a hopper trailer
19:58-!-roboboy [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
19:58<NekoMaster>theres also logging trucks
19:58<Diablo-D3>WOAH WTF
19:58<Diablo-D3>NekoMaster: dude
19:59<Diablo-D3>I was reading that post when you said that
19:59<NekoMaster>I can't wail for BANDIT to get to the release stage
19:59<NekoMaster>or, at least nightlies
19:59<Diablo-D3>__ln__: at least it doesnt have neko ears
20:00<NekoMaster>whats wrong with cat ears?
20:00<Diablo-D3>nothing, its kind of cute
20:00<SpComb>hmm... I need to publish a git repo
20:01<Diablo-D3>it'd be nifty if ottd could do the sprite animations
20:01<NekoMaster>it does
20:01<NekoMaster>Smoke from Power Plant
20:01<NekoMaster>NARS has animated steam locos
20:01<Diablo-D3>yeah, but could it make the cat ears pop out?
20:01<NekoMaster>maybe, with proper code
20:02<Diablo-D3>btw, you know whats wrong with the way some of these grfs work?
20:02<Diablo-D3>2cc replaces monorail instead of adding another type
20:03<NekoMaster>It'd be weird to have Metros and Monos
20:03<Diablo-D3>well, mono and maglev should be combined
20:04<NekoMaster>still weird
20:07<Diablo-D3>it could be done how rails become electric
20:07<Diablo-D3>just upgrade
20:08<Diablo-D3>although it'd be interesting in hell to have "useless" eyecandy
20:08<Eddi|zuHause><Diablo-D3> 2cc replaces monorail instead of adding another type <-- that feature is currently in development
20:08<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: ahh nice
20:09<Diablo-D3>okay so, pikkindw, metro, isr, av8, bigger depots, egrvts, and 2cc
20:09<Diablo-D3>anything else I should add?
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>something about ships
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>and newstations
20:10<Diablo-D3>isr == industrial stations renewal
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes, isr for industries, newstats for passengers
20:10<NekoMaster>Canadian Stations since they look like passenger stations
20:10<NekoMaster>and work in all climates
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>and if you play temperate, you can add the brick chain next to PBI
20:12<Diablo-D3>blargh, bananas doesnt know enough
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, newstats is not on bananas
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>like all other MB grfs
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20:12<Diablo-D3>neither is pikkindw
20:13<NekoMaster>FIRS is
20:13<NekoMaster>and ECS
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>generally, older grfs tend to be missing
20:13<Diablo-D3>well, whats the recommended industry upgrade?
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>i prefer PBI over ECS
20:14<NekoMaster>I would like pbi more if there wasn't a strict limit
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20:14<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: grfs missing from bananas are usually found via grfcrawler
20:14<NekoMaster>I like ECS stock limits
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: or the coop grf pack
20:14<NekoMaster>the more a factory gets served the more it can handle
20:17<SmatZ>until you hit the limit
20:17<PeterT>SmatZ: Can I get a copy of your magic_bulldozer rcon patch please?
20:17-!-Chris_Booth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:18<SmatZ>PeterT: here it is
20:18<PeterT>thanks SmatZ
20:18<SmatZ>"force" changes singleplayer-only settings
20:18<SmatZ>the saves & reloads the game, so it won't desync
20:18<NekoMaster>whats the magic bulldozer patch for?
20:19<NekoMaster>well, cant you jsut turn the cheat on if you want to use the magic bulldozer?
20:19-!-Guest393 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:19<SmatZ>I guess, you can
20:20<PeterT>not during the game, not during the game, you can't
20:20<SmatZ>with that patch, server can enable/disable the cheat
20:20-!-NekoMaster [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:20<SmatZ>NekoMaster is full of fail
20:20-!-welshdragon [~markmac@] has quit [Quit: welshdragon]
20:20<PeterT>really? you just met him
20:21-!-welshdragon [~markmac@] has joined #openttd
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20:22<SmatZ>I know I have him in my "foes" list at tt-forums
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>he has been around for at least a year
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>mister "i overclocked my pc and now it crashes when playing youtube videos"
20:23<PeterT>SmatZ: I see no point in a foes list, I'm going to read his posts anyway
20:23<PeterT>I'm not goign to stop reading posts just because someone is a noob
20:24<PeterT>SmatZ: What is this diff?
20:24<SmatZ>PeterT: forbids building of airports
20:24<PeterT>is there a patch that only allows a configurable number of airports?
20:25<SmatZ>with "town noise limits", different formula is used for limiting number of airports per town
20:26<PeterT>no, I need a specific setting
20:26<PeterT>I'll try to see if I can update the goulp patch
20:26<Diablo-D3>okay so
20:27-!-Tennel [~Tennel@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20:27<Diablo-D3>new stations, av8, bigger depots, egrvts, isr, metro track sets, 2cc aaaand
20:28<Diablo-D3>and fish
20:28<PeterT>FISH yes
20:28<Eddi|zuHause>why WAS if you have av8?
20:28<PeterT>WAS has liveries?
20:29<Diablo-D3>so now I think I have super-ottd
20:30<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: you miss the most important one
20:30<PeterT>get CD + IS
20:30<PeterT>but they are stolen!
20:30<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: actually if Im going to do that, I might as well do 32bit
20:30<Eddi|zuHause>and i usually use dutch catenary
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20:31<Diablo-D3>Im not looking to replace everything in the game
20:31<Diablo-D3>I just want to usefully increase the features
20:32<Diablo-D3>ecs looks too complex, btw
20:33<Diablo-D3>PeterT: what is cd and is?
20:33<PeterT>CargoDist and Infrastructure Sharing
20:33<PeterT>I guess you can't really use Infra Sharing
20:33<PeterT>unless you play multiplayer
20:34<Diablo-D3>what is cargodist?
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>my current grf list goes like this: Alpine Climate [mod], DBSet, DBSet_ECS [mod for PBI], NewStations, ISR, generic buffer stops, GermanRV, NewShips, NH Depot, av8, PBI, Brick Chain, Total Bridge Renewal, Light-rail/Tramtracks, HEQS, German Town Names, Temperate Foundations
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: they're patches, not grfs
20:35*Diablo-D3 isnt adding patches.
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>to that list go the catenary and the trees as static grfs
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: TBRS you should check out
20:36<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: and possibly Swedish Houses
20:36<Diablo-D3>is there an alternative to new stations?
20:36<SmatZ>DBSet_ECS [mod for PBI] <== :-)
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20:37<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: it's basically a changed bit so you can transport clay
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20:37<Diablo-D3>I'd like to grab things that are still being developed
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>and Alpine is modded to skip the industry part, and allow houses to accept food
20:40<Diablo-D3>so wait, is dbset_ecs related to ecs?
20:43<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: it's a small hack, to make DBSet vehicles able to carry the ECS cargos
20:43<Diablo-D3>dbset looks kind of redundant though
20:43<Diablo-D3>if I already have all this other stuff
20:43<SmatZ>DBSet_ECS [PBI mod] is hacked hack :-)
20:44<Eddi|zuHause>alas, clay is in the brick chain but not an ECS cargo
20:44<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you shouldn't mix 2cc and dbset
20:45<Diablo-D3>so should I add the pbi brick chain?
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20:46<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't really matter... adds a few more cargos
20:46<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you want to try "simple" PBI first, if you get along with the stockpiles and limited ressources
20:47<Diablo-D3>I think Ill leave new stations out
20:47<Diablo-D3>btw, why is ISR so screwy
20:47<Diablo-D3>I cant easily delete new stations without nuking the whole station complex
20:47<Eddi|zuHause>try the "r" key ;)
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20:49<Eddi|zuHause>but newstats and isr really complement each other
20:49<Diablo-D3>yeah, but do I have any other choices?
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>there are plenty of station grfs
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>but imho those are the most useful/nice
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20:50<Eddi|zuHause>you can add as many station grfs as you like
20:50<Diablo-D3>someone needs to add these new ones to banannas
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20:51<Eddi|zuHause>there's a canadian station set, czech station set, japanese station set
20:51<Eddi|zuHause>some generic station sets
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>station sets are the least dangerous to experiment with
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>adding sets is allowed, removing might be dangerous
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20:59<Diablo-D3>hrm something conflicts with egrvts I think
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21:01<Eddi|zuHause>to use egrvts and heqs you have to use the "allow multiple vehicle sets" switch
21:02<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if that is enabled by default
21:02<Diablo-D3>where is that exactly?
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>somewhere in advanced settings
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>probably under vehicles
21:05<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: it has enable multiple newgrf engine sets
21:05<Eddi|zuHause>good, then heqs and egrvts should not conflict
21:05<Diablo-D3>aargh now I know why its not working
21:05<Diablo-D3>I dont have heqs enabled
21:15<Diablo-D3>okay so
21:15<PeterT>have you started your godly game yet, Diablo-D3
21:15*Diablo-D3 tries something simple by building a train line between forest and and mill
21:16<PeterT>start with pax
21:16<PeterT>they never fail
21:16<PeterT>plus, you can build nice station art with pax stations
21:16<PeterT>dutch stations is great
21:16<Diablo-D3>I sometimes too
21:16<Diablo-D3>depends how much I hate myself
21:17<Diablo-D3>hrm, theres lots of tiles in this isr pack
21:17<Diablo-D3>why isnt this more easily automated
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21:24<Diablo-D3>what ISR station do I want to offload trees?
21:27<Diablo-D3>wood loading station doesnt look like the right one
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>i usually use empty stations and add a few piles for raw materials
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21:38<Diablo-D3>I cant remember how to efficiently do station entrances
21:38<PeterT>with efificiency
21:39<Diablo-D3>no, I mean which lights do I want
21:39<Diablo-D3>white at entrance, yellow at exit, sideways yellow at entrance to station lines?
21:40<PeterT>you want PBS
21:41<Diablo-D3>argh not more patches
21:41<PeterT>it's part of OpenTTD, Diablo-D3
21:43<Diablo-D3>PeterT: so it just uses the tiles it needs instead of the whole junction block?
21:44<PeterT>I don't really know what you mean
21:44<PeterT>but multiple trains can enter the block
21:45<Diablo-D3>the pathfinder marks tiles it needs to traverse ahead of time to prevent train crashes
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21:46<Diablo-D3>yeah it seems to do that
21:47<PeterT>yeah it's a cool feature
21:48<Diablo-D3>so I only need these at the start of junctions?
21:49<PeterT>depends on the junction
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23:10<NekoMaster>hey guys
23:18<DaleStan>planetmaker: I added Action0RailTypes to the wiki structure. Are there other pages I need to add?
23:26<NekoMaster>om nom nom nom
23:26<DaleStan>peter1138: Can we get TextIDs in action 0 instead of strings, please?
23:29<NekoMaster>i dirnk it
23:29<NekoMaster>i hear you can have new rail types
23:29<NekoMaster>is that true
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 02 00:00:15 2010