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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-07

---Logopened Sun Feb 07 00:00:18 2010
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02:22<Terkhen>good morning
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02:37<ccfreak2k>Well, I found where sdl-config probably should go.
02:37<ccfreak2k>I just need to make configure look for it there.
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02:53<@peter1138>ccfreak2k, --with-sdl=/path/to/sdl-config?
02:53<ccfreak2k>Yeah I'm doing that, but there's also png-config and whatever in $PORTLIBS/bin.
02:54<ccfreak2k>And the base_rules makefile sets up the paths, so I'll need to import that.
02:58<ccfreak2k>What I'll do is set to assume the presence of libz and whatever else, since they're all available in this setup.
03:04<ccfreak2k>I bumped the OpenTTD Wii thread with some relevant information.
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05:11<kd5pbo>So, I just wrote an IRC wrapper.
05:11<kd5pbo>Where would be the appropriate place to post it?
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05:13<Ammler>kd5pbo: ^
05:13<Ammler>what is it based on?
05:14<kd5pbo>I just put it together tonight, though.
05:14<kd5pbo>Probably could use some testing.
05:14<kd5pbo>Any reason not to put it on google code?
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05:22<Ammler>kd5pbo: I am looking forward to checkout ;-)
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05:23<Ammler>morning andythenorth :-)
05:24*andythenorth wonders where newgrf properties for industry tiles are in src (searching)
05:24<kd5pbo>Ammler: I'm documenting at the moment.
05:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: what about newgrf_industrytiles.cpp
05:27*andythenorth that would be the obvious place to look....I need more tea clearly
05:28<kd5pbo>Ammler: until I get it up.
05:32<kd5pbo>Anybody have any experience with svn vs mercurial?
05:32<kd5pbo>I've only used svn in the past.
05:35<Ammler>python script? python vcs :-)
05:35<andythenorth>kd5pbo: the difference is mostly sociological
05:36<kd5pbo>andythenorth: What do you mean?
05:36<andythenorth>svn is better for large collaboration projects as it encourages more frequent small commits that can be peer reviewed by other developer
05:36<Ammler>andythenorth: not svn <-> hg
05:36<Ammler>ah ok
05:36<frosch123>[11:26] * andythenorth wonders where newgrf properties for industry tiles are in src (searching) <- newgrf.cpp
05:37<kd5pbo>Ammler: What's vcs?
05:37<kd5pbo>Too many licenses to choose from.
05:38<kd5pbo>I need one that's four lines long and says something like "If you make any money off of this, I get a cut."
05:38<andythenorth>frosch123: win, thanks
05:41<andythenorth>kd5pbo: ummm.....just use the GPL and don't worry about it?
05:41<kd5pbo>Yeah, but then I'd have to go and read through it all.
05:42<frosch123>andythenorth: rename it to special_flags, introduce an enum for the existing value and post that to flyspray :)
05:43<frosch123>then add your own item to the enum
05:43<Ammler>kd5pbo: don't think google hosts a "nc" license
05:43<kd5pbo>NC license?
05:43<Ammler>no commercial
05:43<kd5pbo>Seems not.
05:43<kd5pbo>I'll go with MIT and add a clause.
05:44<andythenorth>frosch123: rename which part to special_flags? animation_special_flags?
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05:44<Ammler>kd5pbo: use gpl
05:44<kd5pbo>Too late.
05:44<frosch123> uint16 callback_res = GetIndustryTileCallback(CBID_INDTILE_ANIM_NEXT_FRAME, HasBit(itspec->animation_special_flags, 0) ? Random() : 0, 0, gfx, ind, tile); <- there is currently only one place using it. and that one uses "0" instead of an enum
05:44<kd5pbo>I doubt there'll be anybody wanting to steal something I put together in five hours, anyways.
05:45<Ammler>if you need to aks, which license to take, writing your own license is a bad idea.
05:46<@Rubidium>writing your own license is a bad idea in almost all cases, if not all cases
05:48<kd5pbo>I switched to GPL.
05:52<ccfreak2k>Just make it public domain.
05:52<ccfreak2k>Who cares.
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05:53<andythenorth>public domain is bollocks, it doesn't ensure code is reusable....but it's an old argument. search the'll find about 5 threads of the same argument :o
05:55<kd5pbo>Well, it works so far, anyways.
05:56<kd5pbo>I'll put it in the forums as soon as I have a wiki and a better description and such.
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05:57<Nite_Owl>Hello all
05:57<kd5pbo>Nite_Owl: Hi.
05:57<Nite_Owl>Hello kd5pbo
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06:08<andythenorth>frosch123: I got a nice fs number :)
06:09<frosch123>oh, too bad, it is dividable by 400.
06:10<frosch123>usually we reject every fourth, except every 100th, but every 400th again
06:11<andythenorth>all I did was change the variable name and a comment, I can't figure the rest out yet, so I'm going one step at a time
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06:37<Eddi|zuHause>so it's a leap bug :p
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06:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19052 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove the _smallmap_draw_procs array.
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07:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r19053 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add an enum for the special flags of industry tiles. (based on andythenorth' work)
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07:13<andythenorth>frosch123: ^^ thanks. Think I can see how to extend that. Have to do chores first though :\
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08:52<_Dusin>hey to all.. can any1 help me with makeing own server for multi game ? pls
08:52<SirSquidness>hey _Dusin
08:53<SirSquidness>what OS are you running?
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08:53<_Dusin>win 7 , and friend has XP
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08:55<SirSquidness>If you want to run a dedicated server, it's a litlte more involved -
08:55<_Dusin>i will try it
08:56<SirSquidness>But for just playing with a friend, the first link is best
08:56<_Dusin>i dont know what is it :)
08:56<_Dusin>ok.. i will try the first link :)
08:56<SirSquidness>The first link will run what's called a "Listen Server" - you play the game and host a server at the same time
08:57<SirSquidness>The second link is for a "Dedicated server", where the server is seperate from the game
08:59<_Dusin>i made it.. but my friend cant see my game
08:59<SirSquidness>Are you trying to play over LAN or over the internet?
09:00<SirSquidness>You will need to forward some ports from your modem/router to play
09:01<SirSquidness>Find the model of your modem or router there
09:02<SirSquidness>You need to forward port 3979 (both TCP and UDP ) to yourPC's local IP address (the site explains how to do all of this)
09:04<_Dusin>ok thx
09:04<ccfreak2k>Do the doxygen html files for openttd 0.7.6 happen to be hosted anywhere?
09:05<PeterT>Does 0.7.6 exist?
09:05<ccfreak2k>I guessed at whatever version have.
09:05<ccfreak2k>It appears to be 0.7.5.
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09:17<Ammler>ccfreak2k: bundle *-doc*
09:20<PeterT>Does it violate licscene if the bundle only has COPYING, openttd.exe, and lang files?
09:22<Ammler>why distribute a "half" package?
09:22<PeterT>Not me, Goulp
09:22<PeterT>yet again, they are being dicks about bandwidth
09:22<Muxy>And Goulp is old enough to ask the question
09:23<PeterT>and the package doesn't work, either
09:24<Ammler>if you add the exe and the lang files, the package isn't really smaller.
09:24<PeterT>i know, the rest of the things really don't take up that much space
09:25<PeterT>with all my cargodist builds, fully bundled, the rar is ~3MB
09:25<PeterT>that is with 'best' compression and a solid archeive
09:28<ccfreak2k>How about 7zip?
09:29<PeterT>not everyone has that
09:29<PeterT>well, and 7zip sucks
09:29<PeterT>good compression, gui is bulky and unneccesarry
09:29*SpComb^ usually just uses the context menu for 7zip
09:30<ccfreak2k>WinRAR can extract 7zip anyway.
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09:44<Noldo>what has GUI to do with archive format?
09:48<@Rubidium>but... why use rar if the problem with 7zip is that not everyone has 7zip, not everyone has rar either
09:49<PeterT>Yes, but Rar>7zip
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09:50<@Rubidium>yes, rars are bigger than 7z
09:50<@Rubidium>and for what it's worth, I don't have rar
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09:52<PeterT>Rubidium: Aren't you on Linux?
09:53<@Rubidium>what does the OS have to do with the archiver?
09:53<Shapeshifter>So I don't understand this. Everything is running smoothly, all my services are very good and stuff. But here's a fruit plantage which doesn't want to grow. Service is very good to a food processing plant, but the production constantly dropped and is now at 0. For some time, I made the service even excellent, using superfast and many trains, but the production never went above 16 even after years of unlucrative excellent transport
09:53<jonty-comp>I have Windows, and I don't have rar!
09:53<Shapeshifter>Also, how can I fund new fruit plantages or maize farms?
09:54<@Rubidium>Shapeshifter: a N% chance of increase and a M% chance of decrease still mean there is a chance there will only be decreases
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09:55<@Rubidium>actually, with perfect servicing a industry can die and with no servicing an industry can reach the highest production raters
09:55<Shapeshifter>Rubidium: so this was down to bad luck?
09:55<@Rubidium>Shapeshifter: yes
09:56<Shapeshifter>also, that doesn't make too much sense :| Anyway, happy with that. But how can I possibly make a new farm?
09:56<Shapeshifter>I only seem to be able to fund factories and such.
09:56<@Rubidium>then change the setting that only allows building secondary industries
09:57<Shapeshifter>is that a difficulty setting?
09:57<@Rubidium>don't know exactly what it's called
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09:57<Shapeshifter>nevermind, found it
09:58<Shapeshifter>I mean, at some point if there's only one farm and one food processing plant, there would be no food left for things to grow. Would I normally just need to wait until a new fruit plantage pops up by chance?
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09:59<Shapeshifter>what does "prospecting" mean, for the "funding of primary industries" option?
10:00<Eoin>it randomly builds one
10:00<Eoin>you cant chose where
10:01<Shapeshifter>I see. thanks
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10:25<PeterT>Rubidium: Sorry to bug you, but I was very close to a solution, but never found one
10:25<PeterT>Rubidium: Can you look at this please?
10:25<Alberth>Eoin: Shapeshifter: it may or may not build one (ie the 'ground survey' may indicate there is no supply).
10:36<Shapeshifter>Alberth: okay
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10:48<Shapeshifter>So I want to upgrade some rails from rail to monorail. I've sent all trains that usually drive on these tracks to their depots. But if I use the tool it says "Can't convert railway type here, no suitable railway track
10:48<Shapeshifter>I read the wiki on upgrading rails and it doesn't say anything else.
10:49<[Jako]>you have to sell the trains
10:49<[Jako]>then convert and buy new trains
10:50<Shapeshifter>[Jako]: that's only about the depots I think. Also, I just did that, and it doesn't change anything.
10:50<SpComb^>upgrading from rail to monorail in-place is silly anyways :(
10:51<Shapeshifter>SpComb^: what do you mean "in-place"? I just tried making a new rail somewhere on an empty tile, and then upgrade it.
10:51<Shapeshifter>doesn't work.
10:51<Shapeshifter>am I missing something? Can I build monorail right away?
10:52<SpComb^>dunno, I don't think I've ever built any monorail track in OpenTTD
10:53<Shapeshifter>longclick on the rail button shows a menu, need to click on monorail there
10:53<SpComb^>oh yes, it's an "upgrade track to..." button :)
10:53<Shapeshifter>yep ^^ from there it works
10:58<Alberth>yep, you have to select the rail-type you want to upgrade to first
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11:04<[Jako]>and you cant convert or upgrade trains so you have to sell them first
11:04<PeterT>not without a patch, you can't
11:04<[Jako]>there is a patch for it?
11:04<PeterT>more specifically >
11:07<[Jako]>thanks, bookmarked
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11:09<[Jako]>do you know will this work with the new beta?
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11:14<PeterT>yes, it can
11:14<PeterT>at [Jako]
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12:27<PeterT>glx you there?
12:27<PeterT>what are those long strings of code that you put on flyspray bugs?
12:28<Muxy>stack back trace
12:31<PeterT>did you get that from crash.dmp?
12:31<Muxy>and you forget to mention what command you sent to the server
12:34<+glx>Muxy: we know that from the dmp :)
12:35<Muxy>glx: dmp is nice, then
12:35<+glx>he did "rcon kban himself"
12:35<PeterT>yes :-)
12:35<PeterT>I remember that
12:36<PeterT>but "himself" isn't a client-id
12:36<+glx>and the server tried to send him back the console output
12:36<PeterT>and "kban" isn't a cmomand either
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12:56<andythenorth>frosch123: I'm not sure what's appropriate in terms of number of changes a diff contains?
12:57<andythenorth>If I add a flag, then new code to use the flag, seems like two diffs to me...but they are dependent on each other, so could be one.
12:57<frosch123>sounds like one diff for me :)
12:57<andythenorth>I'd better write the second half then
13:08*andythenorth compiles and crosses fingers :o
13:09*andythenorth broke the compile :(
13:09*PeterT broke andythenorth
13:09<andythenorth>ummm a bizarre comment from PeterT
13:09<PeterT>Aren't they all?
13:10<andythenorth>I modified line 4. itspec is currently out of scope, I'm not surprised, but I don't know how / where to declare it
13:10<andythenorth>I'm 'hacking by copy, paste, modify'
13:11<frosch123>"svn diff" would be easier :)
13:11<frosch123>anyway, the HasBit is too much
13:12<PeterT>What are you trying to do now andythenorth?
13:12<andythenorth>frosch123: I can post a diff to flyspray...
13:13<frosch123>i meant instead of "i modified line 3"
13:14<frosch123>i do know the code good enough to do the diff myself :p
13:15<andythenorth>the idea for HasBit was lifted from code that uses the industry cb mask
13:15<frosch123>well, either HasBit or &
13:15<frosch123>the formet for bit numbers, the latter for bit masks
13:16<andythenorth>ok, bad copy and paste
13:17<andythenorth>ummm...action 0 flags are usually bit mask, correct?
13:18<frosch123>he, you can always test bits by either bit number of bit mask. HasBit(x, 4) is just the same as (x & 0x10) in boolean context
13:19<frosch123>resp. look up the declaration of HasBit :I)
13:19<andythenorth>but trying to do both is dumb, right?
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13:21<andythenorth>I still have itspec out of scope....would this help with that:
13:21<andythenorth> const IndustryTileSpec *itspec = GetIndustryTileSpec(cur_gfx);
13:22<frosch123>i guess it->gfx
13:23<frosch123>and i need more cola tankers :/
13:23<andythenorth>either you're playing toyland, or my questions make you thirsty? Slightly strange either way :D
13:24<frosch123>since ogfx toyland is no longer strange, but the climate with most detailed animated industries
13:25<andythenorth>oh my, that reminds me how much animation I have to add to FIRS :o
13:25<andythenorth>so much to do....I'd better learn C++ faster
13:26<PeterT>andythenorth: The programmer of many hats.™
13:27<andythenorth>meh. pixels, nfo, website, and now bloody C++
13:27*andythenorth compiles and crosses fingers
13:27<PeterT>I would count HTML and Java seperately
13:27*PeterT broked andy's compile!
13:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19054 /trunk/src/network/core/tcp_game.cpp: -Fix [FS#3598]: when banning yourself via rcon do not send the 'command response' to the client as the connection has already been terminated
13:28<PeterT>Thanks Rubidium
13:28*andythenorth omg compile worked
13:29<@peter1138>as you do
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13:32*andythenorth is gleeful
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13:36<andythenorth>^^ not divisible by 400 far as I can see. Not if you want an int as the result anyway.
13:37<@Rubidium>@calc 3602 / 400
13:37<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 9.005
13:37<@Rubidium>sorry, DorpsGek says it can divide it by 400
13:37*andythenorth has been coding for 15 years, but clearly has misunderstood what an int is
13:37<@peter1138>is it a leap bug then?
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13:38*andythenorth is strangely pleased by looking at a bunch of industries with tiles horribly missing
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r19055 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: basque - 8 changes by Thadah
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 22 changes by beruic
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: esperanto - 15 changes by Ailanto
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by alyr
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: japanese - 15 changes by PouncingAnt
13:45<Bluelight>I can do Norwegian..
13:46<Bluelight>Found some errors in there..
13:47<Bluelight>Ohh.. Web? Never mind..
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13:59<andythenorth>frosch123: I've looked for clues to how tile 0xFF can be signed....can't see how this is done, but will keep looking.
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14:06*andythenorth thinks negative offsets for tile 0xFF are handled as a special case in newgrf.cpp
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14:06<frosch123>around newgrf.cpp::2333
14:07<frosch123>otoh, i am not sure why it is unsigned by default as values > 16 would also cause trouble afaik
14:10<Shapeshifter>So I didn't care about a small town near two bigger ones and now I can't build a new trainstation because they don't like me at all. I tried rebuilding forrests and campaigns, and there's one bus station already standing from the beginning of the game I am now again servicing with "very good" rating. I would supply them food, but I can't build any lorry stations either
14:10<Shapeshifter>how do I make them happy?
14:11<Zuu>Do you have any stations in that town?
14:11<Zuu>Serve them well
14:11<Shapeshifter>just this one bus station I am now servicing with "very good"
14:11<Zuu>Apart from that, just wait.
14:12<Zuu>Don't destroy any trees :-)
14:13<kd5pbo>Shapeshifter: Bribe them.
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14:16<Zuu>IIRC you have a chance/risk of 1/30 of getting caught when briding.
14:16<kd5pbo>Shapeshifter: Bribe them less than 30 times.
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14:24<andythenorth>frosch123: I really am just guessing...but:
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14:26<Shapeshifter>allright ^^
14:26<frosch123>no idea either :) i am even not sure whether the industrytile properties are already available at that point
14:27<andythenorth>hmmm....good point
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14:28<Shapeshifter>But, I'd also like to build them a water tower but it says "cant build this industry type here, can only build in towns"
14:29<Shapeshifter>butr I'm placing it like 4 blocks away from the town name, as close as possible
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>you must build it on top of a house
14:31*andythenorth assumes that IndustryTileOverrideManager must be worth looking at
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14:47<PeterT>Is SmatZ here?
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14:51*andythenorth is way way out of his depth
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14:52<PeterT>SmatZ: Do you have a copy of the diff for logging DoCommands? Is that log only available for a server running on Autopilot/ap+?
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15:09<PeterT>Restart in linux...
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15:14<Shapeshifter>Eddi|zuHause: oh okay thanks
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15:24<jbeseitigen>ich bin ein Problem
15:24<SmatZ>ja, du bist
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15:26<SmatZ>hello PeterT,
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: how right he was :p
15:26<PeterT>thanks SmatZ
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15:27<PeterT>so it logs the DoCommands in console, or via autopilot?
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>autopilot does _nothing_ else than read the console...
15:29<Ammler>(and write)
15:39<andythenorth>frosch123: my guess is that indsutrytile properties are *not* available when layouts are copied
15:43<frosch123>well, i guess the offsets should always be interpreted signed in newgrf.cpp, however later they should be validated for correct range
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15:46*andythenorth wishes he'd studied computer science instead of politics & philosophy.
15:47<andythenorth>frosch123, practically, what would I need to change in newgrf.cpp to deal with signed ints? Currently a tile with signed ints *is* treated as invalid (or at least, the layout isn't built in game)
15:49<Shapeshifter>I can't find a way to see an overview of how all my stations are performing. I've got quite many of them and it's starting to be a bother to click on everyone and then on "rating". same for how many goods are being stored.
15:51<frosch123>you could try moving the int8 case further to the top
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>Shapeshifter: there's a button for station list in the main toolbar
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>Shapeshifter: there you can sort on performance, afaik
15:51<frosch123>but why do you want to study computer science? are you the only one in class who can install windows?
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15:52<Shapeshifter>Eddi|zuHause: okay thanks
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>i think andythenorth is a little old to have a "class" ;)
15:52<andythenorth>frosch123 I might not be playing catchup conceptually if I'd done a degree in this stuff.
15:52<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: at least 10 years too old
15:52<andythenorth>never too old to learn though :o
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>hm... when was it removed that you can right-click to get rid of error messages?
15:55<frosch123>you still can
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>why doesn't it work then?
15:56<frosch123>or do you mean the "annoy the stupid user"-fatal error messages which have no timeout, are not closed by right-click, and maybe not even by "del"
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: the message "newgrf was disabled because it's fucked up"
15:57<frosch123>likely that is one of those do-not-let-the-stupid-user-click-them-away-in-a-hurry-messages
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>why does each vehicle have its own tick counter?
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>and why is this codepath only run every 5 ticks?
15:59<frosch123>isn't it incremented when the vehicle is moving? i.e. depending on vehicle speed?
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>i have two code paths where trains with red signal are handled, one is around train_cmd.cpp:3390-ish "/* In front of a red signal */" in TrainController() and one around 4000-ish "/* Handle stuck trains. */" in TrainLocoHandler()
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>the latter one is touched every tick, the former only every 5 ticks, and i don't see why...
16:02<andythenorth>I have no idea if this is good, but it appears to permit setting negative offsets on tiles
16:02<andythenorth>industry destruction doesn't appear to crap out either
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16:04<Eddi|zuHause>the vehicle tick counter is increased in Train::Tick()
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>that is also where TrainLocoHandler is called
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>TrainController seems to be dependent on speed
16:06*andythenorth wonders where else I might need to handle industrytile signed offsets?
16:06<andythenorth>probable when placing a tile
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>try it and look where it crashes :)
16:10<andythenorth>well so far it didn't crash ;)
16:11*andythenorth thinks of ways to crash it
16:13<andythenorth>nah it's all fine, lets ship it :)
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16:20<Alberth>andythenorth: what is the type of 'itt[k].ti.x' ?
16:20<Alberth>(and the '.y' as well, it seems)
16:20*andythenorth is embrassed by having no idea
16:21<Alberth>int8, int16, uint8 ?
16:21<Alberth>something else?
16:22<andythenorth>itt[k].ti.x comes from reading a byte...
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16:23<andythenorth>Alberth: doing this appears to allow signed offsets to work fine:
16:23<andythenorth> itt[k].ti.x = (int8)GB(itt[k].ti.x, 0, 8);
16:23<andythenorth> itt[k].ti.y = (int8)GB(itt[k].ti.y, 0, 8);
16:23<andythenorth>I can't find a way to make it fail. Industry builds, industry can be destroyed, tiles appear to be cleaned up
16:24*andythenorth admits that he's better at drawing than code :)
16:24<Alberth>yes, but it looks weird. there has to be a better way to express that :p
16:24<andythenorth>it's copy and paste from the lines below :)
16:25*andythenorth is happy to learn...
16:25<Alberth>hmm, our code is that weird, apparently :)
16:26<Alberth>I'd write itt[k].ti.x = (int8)(itt[k].ti.x & 0xFF);
16:26<andythenorth>I'll try that
16:26-!-lewymati [] has quit []
16:26<Alberth>I'll test whether that actually works :)
16:27<andythenorth>I can tell you in a minute....
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16:28<Eddi|zuHause>why would "&0xFF" be better than GB(.,0,8)?
16:28<andythenorth>Alberth: it works. I have industrytiles getting built with negative offsets
16:29<Alberth>it works here too :)
16:29<andythenorth>so...which is the better style :P
16:30<andythenorth>Alberth: your version looks to me like it's anding with 0xFF, I would have *no idea* what the other one is doing
16:30<Alberth>I guess the current code, since it is already used. However, you never know for sure with OpenTTD source code, too many people have been enhancing it.
16:31<andythenorth>well I'll post a diff with the current code then
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16:33<Alberth> GB does the same
16:33<Alberth>line 32 of file src/core/bitmath_func.hpp
16:35<andythenorth>Rubidium: you explained yesterday why industry tiles can't have signed offsets....but it doesn't actually seem to cause a problem. Where should I look in the code to understand more?
16:36<@Rubidium>andythenorth: if you add -1,-1 then OpenTTD will tell, later on that what you described as 0,0 is 1,1
16:37<andythenorth>ok, I think I can see why my test newgrf wouldn't show that problem
16:37<andythenorth>I'll test some more
16:37<@Rubidium>e.g. var60 and var61 of industries
16:38<frosch123>andythenorth: did you try removing an industry with tiles with negative positions?
16:39<andythenorth>it works
16:39<@Rubidium>frosch123: that works since I use TileArea for industries, i.e. it probably doesn't in 0.7.5
16:39<andythenorth>but the industry I'm using won't show errors with var 60 or 61, I need to do some more work to test that :)
16:39<dih>PeterT, next time you have a question and are looking for either Osai or me, just ask your question...¬!
16:39<dih>it's annoying to just see lines like "are you here?"
16:40<@Rubidium>dih: next time just ignore him till he actually asks the question
16:40<dih>ask - and we can get back to you with an answer rather than... i am now :-P
16:40<@Rubidium>(or just generally ignore him)
16:40<PeterT>sorry, I would've stayed, but I had switched OSs
16:40<dih>Rubidium, i like being helpful :-P
16:40<dih>sometimes :-P
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16:41<@Rubidium>dih: but what if someone doesn't want to learn to fish? Should I catch for him?
16:41<TrueBrain>Rubidium: YES
16:41<TrueBrain>I am hungry, can you hurry too?
16:41<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: you're welcome here :)
16:41<@Rubidium>I'll make some meatballs for you
16:42<TrueBrain>k .. I will be there in 3 hours
16:42<TrueBrain>well .. maybe 12
16:42<TrueBrain>not sure
16:42<jonty-comp>you can learn to fish using a Wii
16:42<jonty-comp>it's quite easy!
16:43<Shapeshifter>uhm. for some reason I can't build any old-fashioned rail type-of engines anymore...
16:43<Shapeshifter>is this just because its 2015?
16:43<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: you can still make it, if you can be within 17 minutes at Leiden CS or 14 at Leiden Lammenschans
16:43<Shapeshifter>they're just gone from the menu
16:44<@Rubidium>then only you have to walk a hell of a lot cause the busses ain't going anymore
16:44<TrueBrain>hmm .. lets not do that
16:44<andythenorth>Rubidium yup, negative offsets break var 60 / 61
16:44<TrueBrain>14 min to Lammerschans is easy doable
16:44<TrueBrain>just the walking .. not so much fun
16:44*andythenorth stares sadly at some badly screwed up industries :P
16:45<@Rubidium>toldya :)
16:45<andythenorth>so the answer must be "don't build a tile if offsets are negative"
16:45*andythenorth wonders how to check that
16:45<@Rubidium>yeah, it's bad (tm)
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16:47<andythenorth>ha, this offset problem could be fixed in the TTDP wiki: "do not use negative industry tile offsets unless prop 12 bit 1is set"
16:48<andythenorth>problem solved, no?
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16:49<Shapeshifter>does anyone know why I can't build any diesel trains anymore?
16:50<andythenorth>Rubidium I have a solution ^^ :D
16:51<dih>Rubidium, perhaps someone thought "fishing" means, standing at the edge of the river and yelling "Here, Fishy fish fish!"
16:55*andythenorth finds dih's comment strangely hypnotic
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16:56<Shapeshifter> aaaany clues? :|
16:56<pod>anyone here compile under MinGW?
16:58<dih>Shapeshifter, google, search the forums, search the wiki
16:58<frosch123>Shapeshifter: choose a different railtype, (maybe there are electric engines, or other), or enable "never expire engines" and type "resetengines" afterwards in the console
16:59<frosch123>[22:42] <dih> sometimes :-P <- :)
16:59<andythenorth>so how do I check ti.x is not negative?
16:59<dih>frosch123, if you read up - you'll notice we were also talking about "teaching how to fish"
16:59<frosch123>andythenorth: is question is "where to check" :)
17:00<andythenorth>frosch123: what's the easiest way to explain? paste or line number in a file?
17:02<Terkhen>good night
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17:02<frosch123>andythenorth: the problem is, that both industry layouts and your tile property 12 are processed during "activation stage". that is you can only use property 12 during the spritelayout reading if setting it appears earlier in the grf. which is stupid as requirement
17:03<andythenorth>frosch123: I think I'm close to a solution, I just need to check offsets when the tile is acutally built
17:03<andythenorth>actually /s
17:03<frosch123>so instead you have to always allow negative offsets in IndustriesChangeInfo, but later check the validity of layouts
17:03<frosch123>well, what do you want to do during building? just skip the tile?
17:03<andythenorth>I'll paste...
17:03<frosch123>without error message?
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17:04<Eddi|zuHause>how about, check this condition at the end of the activation phase?
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>and disable the grf if it fails?
17:04<frosch123>and showing error messages during world generation is likely "very troublesome" due to multithreading
17:04*andythenorth hasn't thought about error messages
17:04<frosch123>so, as eddi just said, you might check the industry layouts in something like AfterLoadGRFs()
17:05<frosch123>but you cannot disable grfs there anymore, but you can still disable the single broken industries
17:05<frosch123>andythenorth: >= might be more useful :p
17:05<andythenorth>oops :)
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17:07<Shapeshifter>frosch123: okay thanks
17:07<frosch123>anyway, i think you have to move lines 20-22 before the loop
17:07<frosch123>err, before the if
17:08<andythenorth>I'm not really sure what those do...
17:08<frosch123>they handle overriding old industry tiles
17:09<andythenorth>line 3 in the paste would then be redundant?
17:09<frosch123>though overriding an old industry tile with a do-not-build-tile is weird :p
17:09<frosch123>hehe, yes, line 3 is redundant then
17:09<andythenorth>I'll test that
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17:13<andythenorth>frosch123: yup moving those lines appears to work. I'm not exactly sure of how to test if that broke anything
17:15<frosch123>good luck :)
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17:15*Eddi|zuHause hands frosch123 the title "Blitzquitter vom Dienst"
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17:19*andythenorth compiles and crosses fingers
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17:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19056 /trunk/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Add: [NewGRF] Action 3/2/1 (i.e. new graphics) support for rail types. (To be documented...)
17:23<andythenorth>tiles with negative offsets now aren't built :D
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17:31<andythenorth>enough. good night :)
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17:32<Eddi|zuHause>good news: emails should soon cost 20 cent shipping
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>(in a monopolised state provider)
17:33<kd5pbo>Eddi|zuHause: Should cut down on spam.
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17:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm... tonight is superbowl...
17:35<PeterT>it is
17:35-!-asilv [] has quit []
17:35<PeterT>what fun
17:35<@Rubidium>you mean crappy TV in the US tonight?
17:36<kd5pbo>The commercials are typically funny.
17:36<PeterT>Rubidium: Have you ever seen football?
17:36<PeterT>american football
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yes, except for one episode after the superbowl
17:37<@Rubidium>episode of what?
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>don't know
17:37-!-pod [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>but tradittionally they push one show
17:37-!-Rhamphoryncus [] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus]
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>by specially programming it right after the superbowl
17:39<@Rubidium>so probably something totally useless
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't get my hopes up either ;)
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18:29<Eddi|zuHause>gr... i totally hate when people ask the exact same thing as question that i explained only one line before...
18:29<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: what do you totally hate?
18:29<PeterT>where is this, forum or irc?
18:30<Bluelight>I know that feeling..
18:30<Bluelight>My mother does that all the time..
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: no, more like "so do you hate people that ask the same thing you just said?"
18:31<Bluelight>Good night all.. :)
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19:05<Priski>I have forgotten password and my email has changed since last time I used tt-forums :(
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19:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19057 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/tcp.cpp: [MSU] -Fix: reading from an already closed file doesn't work
19:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19058 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/handler.cpp: [MSU] -Change: increase required debug level for showing that idle connections have been killed
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20:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r19059 /trunk/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): -Fix (r19056): Regenerate MSVC project files.
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21:15<SpComb^>argh, my topic is dropping off the first page of the development forum :(
21:15<PeterT>CargoDist with Sprinkles?
21:16<PeterT>I would keep it alive by making builds, but you seem to have that covered...
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21:17<SpComb^>rars make me unhappy :(
21:18<PeterT>Zips don't compress enough to upload to tt-fourms
21:18<SpComb^>the win32 bundle zips I get just and just fit
21:18<PeterT>make bundle_zip
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21:19<PeterT>not for me
21:19<SpComb^>they're 3.9MB or so
21:19<SpComb^>well, you'll find one attached in my posts
21:19<SpComb^>but orudge should consider bumping it up anyways, I think having OpenTTD bundles fit as attachments is a good yardstick...
21:21<SpComb^>but, the nice thing about having someone else doing builds is that it keeps both of them motivated, plus there's some modium of testing going on as well (the .patch really does apply cleanly)
21:22<SpComb^>but on the other hand, the more automated the build process, the better...
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21:25<SpComb^>for the win32 builds I do, I only feed in the svn wc/rev and the .patch file, and then publish a couple files to the server
21:25<SpComb^>I don't need to fiddle around with svn, patch, msvc, make, mv by hand
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21:26<PeterT>I don't understand that
21:26<PeterT>Can you please explain it?
21:26<PeterT>mv by hand?
21:27<SpComb^>copy/rename the bundle zip, patch, pdb
21:27<PeterT>so, what do you do instead?
21:27<SpComb^>I copy over the .patch file generated by git from a network drive, then I run a command with the svn working copy and revision to use, the .patch file to apply, and the build name (e.g. 'cargodist-minipack')
21:28<SpComb^>then I go make dinner or whatever, and 15 minutes later come back and copy 'openttd-cargodist-minipack-rXXXXX*' to wherever
21:28<PeterT>that is the bundle or the patch?
21:28<SpComb^>zip, patch, pdb, log
21:28<PeterT>I don't get that, where do you compile?
21:29<PeterT>What's the different between what you did and the regular?
21:29<SpComb^>the script runs MSVC for you, it's just a single command that does it all
21:29<PeterT>wow, cool
21:29<PeterT>it even zips the PDB?
21:30<PeterT>or moves the pdb to a better location?
21:30<SpComb^>well, no, I preferr to keep the .pdb as-is, it just copies it out
21:30<SpComb^>although I guess the PDB's do compress fairly well
21:37<kd5pbo>I don't recall who it was last night that was asking about my python wrapper, but it's updated (and a bit more stable) now.
21:40<PeterT>kd5pbo: It was me and Ammler
21:40<PeterT>*Ammler and I
21:40<PeterT>kd5pbo: Could you please give me a link?
21:40<kd5pbo>PeterT and Ammler: The wrapper is updated.
21:40<kd5pbo>PeterT: SVN do?
21:41<PeterT>it works on windows?
21:41<PeterT>(the wrapper, not SVN)
21:41<kd5pbo>svn checkout pyottdirc-read-only
21:41<kd5pbo>No idea.
21:41<kd5pbo>It should, though.
21:41<kd5pbo>Let me know if it doesn't.
21:41<kd5pbo>You'll need irclib, a python library.
21:42<kd5pbo>You may be able to easy_install it. I'm not sure.
21:43<PeterT>What am I supposed to do with that python irclib?
21:44<kd5pbo>Install it.
21:44<SpComb^>didn't your mom teach you not to use threads in python
21:44<kd5pbo>SpComb^: Got a better idea?
21:44<kd5pbo>Easyinstall seems to find python-irclib just fine.
21:45<PeterT>easy install?
21:45<kd5pbo>PeterT: Something like package management for python modules.
21:45<PeterT>So, that's what I do with this folder?
21:46<kd5pbo>PeterT: Install python-irclib.
21:46<kd5pbo>Then run
21:46<kd5pbo>I'm putting together a wiki that'll have clear instructions.
21:46<PeterT>I'm stuck at installing python-irclib
21:47<PeterT>It's just a folder
21:47<PeterT>how do I install a folder?
21:47<kd5pbo>Is there a file?
21:48<SpComb^>kd5pbo: reasonably sure irclib has some random select() loop and it lets you stuff in your own FDs
21:48<SpComb^>kd5pbo: add in some SIGCHLD magic and you'd be done
21:48<kd5pbo>SpComb^: On windows, select() doesn't work for non-socket fd's.
21:48<SpComb^>well fail :(
21:48<kd5pbo>Otherwise, I'd have done it.
21:48<ccfreak2k>c:/devkitPro/msys/home/ccfreak2k/gxttd/src/ai/../network/core/os_abstraction.h:189: error: 'SetNonBlocking' declared as an 'inline' variable
21:48<PeterT>I ran: " install"
21:48<kd5pbo>PeterT: Try python.exe install
21:49<kd5pbo>PeterT: Oh, good.
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21:49<kd5pbo>Should be installed.
21:49<PeterT>it installed
21:49<kd5pbo>In that case, you should be able to run pyottdirc from wherever.
21:49<kd5pbo>pyottdirc --help will give you the options.
21:50<kd5pbo>You'll probably have to specify your own command, though.
21:50<SpComb^>didn't dih get around to writing some Python clone of autopilot a while ago
21:50<kd5pbo>SpComb^: What's autopilot?
21:51<PeterT>kd5pbo: Could you please add this to the wiki?
21:51<SpComb^>kd5pbo: don't tell me you wrote an OpenTTD-IRC bridge without researching the prior art? :)
21:51<kd5pbo>SpComb^: In that case, I won't tell you.
21:51<PeterT>kd5pbo: I admire you for your work. Perhaps you can also use code from this bot?
21:51<kd5pbo>SpComb^: Actually, I think I did do a bit of research.
21:52<kd5pbo>PeterT: The OpenTTD wiki or the one I'm putting together for the wrapper?
21:53<PeterT>for the wrapper
21:54<kd5pbo>PeterT: I saw that project, acutally. My goal was a bit different, though.
21:54<kd5pbo>PeterT: I'll probably add something like it, yeah.
21:55<SpComb^>petition for the mainline OpenTTD codebase to be split into 'libottd' and 'openttd' portions \o/
21:55<kd5pbo>The interesting thing about this project is that you can use it for any program that accepts commands on stdin and produces output to stdout.
21:55<kd5pbo>Well, as long as the output doesn't start with [dbg] or ***
21:55<kd5pbo>SpComb^: Hah.
21:56<SpComb^>well, that's /obviously/ the way it should have been designed from the start :(
21:56<SpComb^>someone go tell chris sawyer
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21:58<PeterT>kd5pbo: Do you think you could add two more parameters?
21:58<kd5pbo>PeterT: What and what?
21:58<PeterT>one parameter for transfering game chat -> IRC, Only
21:58<PeterT>so anything in IRC won't be echoed in game
21:58<PeterT>and the same thing, the other way aorund
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21:58<PeterT>Only trasnfer IRC to game chat, but not game chat to IRC
21:59<kd5pbo>Nothing from IRC should be echoed in the game, unless you send it with the appropriate command (msg?)
21:59<kd5pbo>game chat -> IRC is a different matter.
21:59<kd5pbo>I'll put it on the TODO list.
21:59<PeterT>kd5pbo: I should explain the situation
21:59<PeterT>we (, a gaming clan) want to have an IRC bot that connects two channels, a private mods channel, and a public game channel
22:00<kd5pbo>Wait, there's OTTD clans?
22:00<PeterT>we would send two bots, a bot in the public channel
22:00<PeterT>and a bot in the priv channel
22:00<PeterT>and the bot in the priv channel shouldn't echo chats from IRC, at all
22:00<PeterT>(we don't want gamers seeing our talk about rcon and such)
22:01<PeterT>but it should bring game chat -> IRC
22:01<PeterT>so that we can moderate
22:01<kd5pbo>Makes sense.
22:01<kd5pbo>ATM, I think game chat should be echoed to IRC by default.
22:01<kd5pbo>Though, there's no way to turn it off without turning everything off.
22:02<PeterT>there isn't any... "don't echo IRC"
22:03<kd5pbo>Maybe I forgot to document it.
22:03<kd5pbo>bot: quiet
22:03<PeterT>also, I'm a bit confused on how to use it
22:03<PeterT>i typed PeterT
22:03<PeterT>but it says "Unable to launch openttd server"
22:04<PeterT>is it supposed to be in the same dir as openttd.exe?
22:04<kd5pbo>On windows, I'm pretty sure you can't just type in openttd to start openttd, can you?
22:04<PeterT>also, [Error 2 ...]
22:04<PeterT>no, openttd.exe
22:04<kd5pbo>You'll have to use the --command flag
22:05<PeterT>-c openttd.exe?
22:05<kd5pbo>Something like -c "openttd.exe -D -d net=0" PeterT
22:05<kd5pbo>That assumes that openttd.exe is a command that executes.
22:05<Eddi|zuHause>you can leave out the .exe in windows
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22:06<Eddi|zuHause>but you have to be in the right working directory
22:06<PeterT><PeterT> is it supposed to be in the same dir as openttd.exe?
22:06<PeterT><kd5pbo> Nah.
22:06<PeterT>that mislead me ^^
22:07<ccfreak2k>Windows puts the current directory in %PATH%.
22:07<kd5pbo>ccfreak2k: Oh.
22:07<kd5pbo>PeterT: In that case, it may be easier to put it in the same directory.
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22:11<ccfreak2k>It's one thing that UNIX-like systems traditionally don't do.
22:11<kd5pbo>ccfreak2k: You can set it, though.
22:11<ccfreak2k>Yeah you can.
22:11<ccfreak2k>It's just not like that by default.
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22:13<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't make a lot of sense on Unix-y systems
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>because programs usually don't install themselves in different folders
22:14<SpComb^>although, on windows, I'd probably just consider using Twisted's reactor.spawnProcess
22:14<SpComb^>which, I presume, also works on windows
22:14<SpComb^>but then your whole codebase becomes all twistedified
22:15<kd5pbo>And not portable.
22:15<SpComb^>as portable as Twisted is
22:15<SpComb^>which is fairly good
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22:26<kd5pbo>trailer-infinity: getdate
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22:31*PeterT wonders why Windows doesn't have a simple "Right click -> Create new file"
22:32<ccfreak2k>New > Text Document
22:32<PeterT>I know,
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22:33<kd5pbo>Didn't it used to?
22:33<kd5pbo>Like, if you click the desktop or something.?
22:34<PeterT>it's really annoying
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22:59<ccfreak2k>No in_addr_t in libogc
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 08 00:00:18 2010