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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-06-13

---Logopened Sun Jun 13 00:00:26 2010
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04:03<Alberth>good morning
04:04<Alberth>hehe, 0.6.3 fails to compile with my newer compiler :)
04:08*andythenorth wonders when FIRS will get to rev 1K
04:09<Alberth>in about 100 changes :)
04:11<Alberth>oh, you even have a road map
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04:12<frosch123>morning andy, morning albert :)
04:13<Alberth>morning, happy frosch123
04:18<frosch123>hmm, let me guess, SmallMap::Insert is unuset yet :p
04:21<Alberth>hmm, a different map than I was thinking about :)
04:25<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: why? does it have a fatal bug? :p
04:25<frosch123>it does not even compile :p
04:25<frosch123>when used
04:25<frosch123>SmallPair misses a matching new operator
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04:57<planetmaker>good morning
04:58<planetmaker>I'd like to draw your attention to one of the most important forum threads ;-)
05:00<Mazur>Mood gorning.
05:01<frosch123>euh, you are posting how to reach you on the forums?
05:02<frosch123>what if 1000 drunken teenagers turn up?
05:04<planetmaker>then we're screwed
05:05<planetmaker>I'm not happy with it, I have to admit
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05:06<planetmaker>hm. I guess I should take direct address out
05:13<planetmaker>I do assume right that you'll stay here over night, right?
05:14<planetmaker>as will Eddi|zuHause I assume?
05:14<planetmaker>and SmatZ and Zuu(?)
05:15<planetmaker>The Dutchies should then decide whether they drive back or not - or stay at michi_cc's place
05:15<frosch123>well, I have three options: buy a sleeping bag, rent a hotel room, sleep at relatives (which i am going to do from friday->saturday, but i do not want to turn up there somewhen saturday night)
05:16<planetmaker>well. I have one sleeping bag here. First come first serve ;-)
05:19<planetmaker>so, if you say now "me!" you can use mine :-)
05:20<frosch123>ok, me!
05:21<planetmaker>done :-)
05:21<Mazur>If I were coming, I'd take the hotel.
05:21<planetmaker>as a bonus you also get my comfy self-inflating large mattrace :-)
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>well, staying and bringing a sleeping bag isn't a problem. i'm unsure as to the logistics of coming and going...
05:23<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: as long as the trains go, there's a way to the station :-)
05:23<planetmaker>Don't worry about getting up early :-)
05:24<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but trains are awfully expensive...
05:24<planetmaker>I've seen friends leaving at 6:30h after we went to bed at 4:30h
05:24<planetmaker>(for similar reasons as you have to leave)
05:25<Terkhen>good morning
05:26<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you'd also get a car for ~60€
05:27<planetmaker>(and maybe 30€ fuel from Halle and back)
05:27<planetmaker>but that's not really that cheap either
05:28<planetmaker>good morning Therken
05:28<planetmaker>hm... autocompletion on "morning" would have given both, a strange highlight and a funny sentence ;-)
05:29<Eddi|zuHause>plenty of "m" people here ;)
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>but you faild autocompleting the actual nick :p
05:34<planetmaker>yes, I typed then out of surprise completely manually ;-)
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05:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19970 /trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp: -Fix (r14742): SmallMap::Insert() did not compile. Construct new items like operator[].
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>a compile error existing for >5000 revisions, is that a record? :)
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05:49<planetmaker>eh? How did we produce the binaries then?
05:49<planetmaker>Or wasn't it used and just optimized away?
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's templated code, these aren't processed when they are not used
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08:08<VVG>Mine ottd 19967 crashes, when loading coop games PGS164 and prozone12 :(
08:10<planetmaker>VVG: you probably have the wrong ISR version
08:11<planetmaker>though #164... dunno
08:11<planetmaker>what does the crash.log look like (use
08:12<VVG>what isr version is right? i have full otdd coop pack in data folder
08:12<Ammler>you have right version, please paste your error
08:14<VVG>that's for 164
08:15<frosch123>that assertion is quite new
08:15<SmatZ>and it doesn't fail for me
08:15<planetmaker>doesn't fail for me
08:15<frosch123>interesting that it is trigered by certain savegames
08:16<SmatZ>frosch123: you can reproduce it?
08:16<frosch123>did not try
08:17<planetmaker>VVG: please try to get the correct newgrfs from the ingame newgrf dialog -> check online content
08:17<planetmaker>does it still crash then?
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08:17<VVG>well, i don't what grfs are correct, since i can check them only ingame
08:18<planetmaker>yes, that's why I asked to check the online content from ingame newgrf window
08:18<SmatZ>VVG: in your paste, Tick 47152: game loaded
08:18<planetmaker>It *should* try to get the correct ones from bananas
08:18<SmatZ>there are few grfs listed as "compatible"
08:18<SmatZ>try to get their new version
08:18<planetmaker>still it's a peculiar assertion for a newgrf interference IMHO
08:19<planetmaker>(if it's one)
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08:21<SmatZ>something seems to be broken
08:21<SmatZ>I get "Missing NewGRFs have been disabled" message
08:21<SmatZ>but no missing GRF is listed in Gamelog nor in NewGRF window
08:21<planetmaker>really? It loads fine here
08:21<planetmaker>without erros
08:21<SmatZ>for a different savegame
08:21<VVG>i selected upgrades and also downloaded all avaible grfs, still the same, i'll try clean docs folder now
08:22<planetmaker>oh :-)
08:22<planetmaker>VVG: not needed
08:23<VVG>already did it, it now loads
08:23<planetmaker>hm. Did you delete or just rename?
08:24<VVG>rename, now it new clean default forlder with original ttd grfs
08:25<planetmaker>then you'd have many missing newgrfs
08:25<Ammler>the problem might be, as soon as you don't have the matching newgrf (md5), the compatible grf is loaded randomly, could be older
08:25<planetmaker>interesting for us would be: what's different in your (broken) setup from ours
08:25<VVG>atleast now i can check grf window to see what i miss
08:26<planetmaker>Ammler: they are older ones. From our grfpack
08:26<VVG>164 uses jptrains2 beta 8 grf
08:26<Ammler>you mean, he loaded "compatible" grfs from our pack instead the matching bananas grfs?
08:27<SmatZ>[14:21:15] <SmatZ> something seems to be broken <== and I can't reproduce it anymore :-/
08:27<planetmaker>Ammler: yes
08:27<planetmaker>when there's no bananas grf present it loads *some* compatible one
08:28<planetmaker>not the matching bananas grf
08:28<Ammler>yes, which are older and mostly incompatible :-)
08:28<planetmaker>SmatZ: we really need newgrf versions :-)
08:28<Ammler>we need to release 8.0 :-P
08:28<planetmaker>like AIs do
08:28<planetmaker>And we need to release OpenTTDcoop grfpack 8.0, yes
08:29<planetmaker>and grf version 8.0, too :-P
08:29<Ammler>(or nml 1.0) :-P
08:29<planetmaker>grf version has nothing to do with nml version
08:29<Ammler>I thought, you speak about nfo
08:30<planetmaker>nope. grf specs.
08:30<Ammler>so you mean nfo :-P
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>we need the new saveload gui that allows you to download grfs before loading the savegame
08:30<planetmaker>they're independent of nfo. NFO is just the assembler of grf language
08:30<planetmaker>Ammler: nope :-)
08:31<planetmaker>it's like machine code to assembler :-)
08:31<VVG>moved all grfs i have back and now it crashes again :(
08:31<planetmaker>machine code = what OpenTTD reads, assembler = nfo
08:31<planetmaker>VVG: can you get us a dir listing of your grfs you have, including file modification time?
08:31<Ammler>VVG: check the log, does it still load "compatible" grfs?
08:31<planetmaker>both in the data and the contentdownload folders
08:32<planetmaker>and yes, what Ammler tells.
08:32<planetmaker>check the (new) crash.log
08:32<planetmaker> Compatible NewGRF loaded: GRF ID 52453400, checksum 5983783733079BB1978B69668064C0EC, filename: japanese_buildings-2.0\jpbuild2w.grf <-- it shouldn't have lines like this.
08:33<VVG>yup, three lines in crash.log, jptrains, buildings and stations
08:33<VVG>trains and stations from grf pack, buildings from bananas
08:34<Ammler>does it crash right after load?
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08:35<VVG>while loading, not a chance to get ingame
08:35<VVG>it seems bananas version of jpbuildings is at fault, without it loads
08:35<VVG>with it it crashes
08:36<planetmaker>VVG: where did you get the bananas version? From the download from the main screen?
08:36<planetmaker>Did you try to get the correct version from ingame from when the save game loaded?
08:36<planetmaker>That might give you the needed, correct version
08:36<VVG>it can?
08:36<Ammler>the problem is you can't download old versions from bananas
08:36<planetmaker>the current bananas version is already newer (I think)
08:36<+glx>Ammler: you can, but not from main menu
08:37<planetmaker>glx: but how, if the game crashes when you load the savegame?
08:37<+glx>wait for new saveload gui maybe
08:37<Ammler>you could from here:
08:37<Ammler>but that might not be an official way :-)
08:38<+glx>but when it doesn't crash you can get old grfs from ingame newgrf menu :)
08:38<VVG>whoa, would have never guessed it can get older version, and from ingame screen
08:38<Ammler>quite useless, as then you don't need :-)
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but he forgot to do that
08:38<VVG>now it works fine
08:39<VVG>works like a charm now! thanks
08:39<Ammler>how you solved?
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>now we need a reproduceable way in order to fortify the assert against bad grfs
08:40<VVG>removed latest jpbuildings grf i downloaded from bananes from main menu, and got older version from ingame from bananas
08:42<Ammler>well, if a grf crashes openttd, it should change the ID
08:43<b_jonas>is it normal if I raise lots of water just so that a city has area to grow?
08:44<andythenorth>I create new land often to allow coastal cities to expand
08:46<planetmaker>b_jonas: look at the Netherlands ;-)
08:47<planetmaker>andythenorth: did you see my map size patch?
08:47<andythenorth>not yet
08:48<andythenorth>planetmaker: where is the patch?
08:49<planetmaker>in your issue about clustering
08:49<planetmaker>I extended that issue a bit ;-)
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08:54<VVG>ottd doesn't crash, if i try only witn newer versions of japanese set, i got from bananas, but it does if i have all my grfs avaible for it ;(
08:55<Ammler>because it loads a random version, if you don't have the matching version.
08:58<b_jonas>I don't get it. these trains keep complaining that they're lost, but they're not. they're just waiting for one another at a signal.
08:59<valhallasw>that's how 'lost' is defined
08:59<valhallasw>not getting at the next order within a certain time period
08:59<planetmaker>valhallasw: nope
08:59<planetmaker>lost = cannot find path to destination
09:00<valhallasw>I must be getting old
09:00<planetmaker>that's not linked to time needed to get there, but only to path finding
09:00<valhallasw>because I'm fairly sure it was that way
09:00<b_jonas>maybe they don't like that they can't pass a presignal because the only exit is closed
09:00<@peter1138>hmm, what cool features was i working on?
09:01<planetmaker>road types?
09:01<andythenorth>don't do road types yet :P
09:01<b_jonas>road types? like what?
09:01<andythenorth>I don't have time for all the fun that entails :|
09:01<@peter1138>nah, road types needs more conceptual though than rail types
09:01<andythenorth>newgrf airports?
09:01<planetmaker>that's yexo's baby
09:01<andythenorth>industry 'field' tiles?
09:02<andythenorth>that's frosch's baby
09:02<andythenorth>my baby is...
09:02<planetmaker>you stole my words!
09:02<andythenorth>my baby is often awake at 2am
09:02<planetmaker>he :-P
09:03<@peter1138>how is babby formed?
09:03<andythenorth>using a special kind of C++
09:03<planetmaker>peter1138: maybe wrap-around maps?
09:04<b_jonas>planetmaker: nah, would be confusing humanly
09:04<frosch123>multi-threaded tileloop for clear land?
09:04<frosch123>hmm, though there is no clear land, only trees :p
09:05<andythenorth>something cool to do with industries?
09:05<andythenorth>water types?
09:05<planetmaker>peter1138: adding newgrf (minor) versions?
09:05<andythenorth>that would be most useful
09:05<planetmaker>adding newgrf version8 basically?
09:05<@peter1138>rivers, canals and ocean isn't enough? heh
09:05<andythenorth>releasing FIRS 0.2 is going to be tricky
09:05<planetmaker>adding rivers to the mapgenerator?
09:06<planetmaker>adding living rivers?
09:06<andythenorth>FIRS 0.2 is epically *not* savegame compatible. But if I bump the that good for Bananas?
09:06<VVG>Is there some special setting for generationg oil rigs? Every new game i make have no oil rigs :(
09:06<planetmaker>andythenorth: it's ok with bananas
09:06<andythenorth>VVG: only built after a certain date
09:06<Ammler>bananas doesn't care
09:07<andythenorth>but then there are two entries for FIRS?
09:07<VVG>wait, i have starting date 2100
09:07<planetmaker>you just update as usual
09:07<andythenorth>and break my save game?
09:07<planetmaker>how so? Savegames store the md5sum
09:07<planetmaker>but then you cannot update of course
09:07<andythenorth>so I update, then can't play my save game anymore?
09:08<planetmaker>but on bananas you shouldn't upload incompatible stuff with the same grfID. VERY bad
09:08<andythenorth>VVG not sure. Got enough water on the map?
09:08<planetmaker>andythenorth: you can. But with the old version
09:08<Ammler>bananas doesn't remove old version on update
09:08<planetmaker>after all it's _in_compatible. So an update is not wanted
09:09<b_jonas>VVG: also, do you have enough water near the edge of map? I think oil rigs are only generated there
09:09<planetmaker>If it's compatible, you don't need to bump the grfID.
09:09<b_jonas>VVG: and maybe they don't get generated at start because few people start games with starting date 2100
09:09<andythenorth>b_jonas: oil rigs are generated anywhere, but there has to be enough clear space around them
09:09<VVG>yep, more than enough,
09:09<Ammler>how does a industry set get incompatible?
09:09<planetmaker>andythenorth: nope, they are somewhere near the border IIRC
09:10<VVG>well, i gave up and tried with firs, now it generated enough of oil rigs.
09:10<planetmaker>Ammler: undefining an industy, changing layouts
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>VVG: banks and oil rigs won't be generated on game start, but they have increased chance to appear ingame
09:10<Ammler>other layout should hurt
09:10<planetmaker>Ammler: also re-defining parameters
09:10<Ammler>isn't that all in the save
09:10<andythenorth>VVG: FIRS :)
09:11<VVG>what i wanted to check, is oil rigs stations air and water vehicles list icons, they are switched, plane icon opens water vehicles list and the other way around
09:11<andythenorth>Ammler: changing accepted / produced cargos, changing layouts, changing tiles / graphics signficantly
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>VVG: you can make a fairly simple newgrf to change the appearance chances, though
09:11<planetmaker>VVG: fixed in newer ones
09:11<VVG>that's 19967 and first 0.1.2
09:11<andythenorth>VVG that just got fixed by Smatz last night I think
09:11<VVG>so fast
09:11<Ammler>andythenorth: that sounds like some glitches but not crashing openttd
09:12<andythenorth>changing strings
09:12<Ammler>dunno, if that is worth a version dump
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09:12<andythenorth>changing strings is a regular source of crashing ottd
09:12<planetmaker>Better bump it than not bump it.
09:12<andythenorth>the rest won't crash ottd, but will just ruin a save game
09:12<planetmaker>which is a good reason for a bump.
09:12<planetmaker>After all 'compatible' is more than 'don't crash'
09:13<planetmaker>it's more like "you can continue to play, but have _less_ glitches.
09:13<planetmaker>andythenorth: if you feel like maintaining the grfID in trunk, but making a new one for releases: create a branch ;-)
09:14<andythenorth>sounds like overhead
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09:14<planetmaker>but that will give Ammler headaches ;-)
09:14<planetmaker>and me also.
09:14<planetmaker>as it's likely to somewhat break both, Makefile and CompileFarm
09:15<Ammler>well, that is something for >1.0
09:16<Ammler>or if you ever plan to backport a fix
09:20<VVG>btw, is there a nice graph avaible for FIRS, like for ECS vectors, which shows what cargo goes where?
09:20<planetmaker>hehe @ Ammler :-)
09:21<planetmaker>Well, with FIRS it actually would - at some stage - even make sense
09:21<planetmaker>IF minor versions would be supported
09:21<planetmaker>same with 2cctrainset and alike
09:22<planetmaker>andythenorth: does the map size thing give you what you need for the action2s?
09:27<andythenorth>planetmaker: haven't had time to try it yet! interruptions :)
09:28<andythenorth>VVG: there's no up-to-date chart, but there is a list:
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09:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm... how would i go and find out the coordinates of the current viewport?
09:37<Alberth>what coordinates at what viewport?
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>main viewport, relative to complete game map
09:37<Alberth>find the main viewport window
09:39<Alberth>the smallmap 'center' button should have the details
09:40<Alberth>the viewport itself has a top-left coordinate, and you know the size and scaling. From that you can compute the center at the map
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09:40<frosch123>maybe take a look at the copy&paste of the extra viewport
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>alright, i'll check those
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10:04<b_jonas>wow, a third tubular bridge
10:06<Zuu>Hmm, do anyone know if accept debit VISAs as a) payment method without registrating b) as identification?
10:06<planetmaker>Zuu: yes and yes
10:06<Zuu>Oh, good.
10:06<planetmaker>I'm not 100% sure about a), but I think so
10:06<Zuu>They fooled me to register, and then when I tried to register for debit payment they wanted my german bank account number which is clearly not the same as debit visa.
10:06<planetmaker>btw: I just found out now, that I wouldn't have gotten the hotel without credit card ;-)
10:07<Zuu>I'll probably get one sooner than later.
10:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19971 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h saveload/afterload.cpp): -Codechange: Make IsGoodGRFConfigList() operate on any given GRFConfig and move the GameLog operations directly to AfterLoad().
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10:10<planetmaker>Zuu: definitely yes also to a)
10:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19972 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Change: Use the md5sum from the previous save of the game for BaNaNaS instead of the initial (when the grf was added) md5sum from the gamelog. Neither method is 'better', but this way it is independent from the gamelog.
10:12<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19973 /trunk/src/ (27 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add another procedure to chunk handlers for checking savegames (empty for now).
10:12<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19974 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Add: SlSkipArray() to skip arrays and sparse arrays in savegames.
10:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19975 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Add: SL_LOAD_CHECK mode for partial reading of savegames.
10:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19976 /trunk/src/ (fios.h fios_gui.cpp saveload/map_sl.cpp): -Add: Read mapsize during SL_LOAD_CHECK.
10:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19977 /trunk/src/ (fios.h fios_gui.cpp saveload/misc_sl.cpp): -Add: Read current date during SL_LOAD_CHECK.
10:14<planetmaker><3 @ frosch's changes and where it goes :-)
10:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19978 /trunk/src/ (fios.h fios_gui.cpp settings.cpp): -Add: Read settings during SL_LOAD_CHECK.
10:15<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19979 /trunk/src/ (company_base.h company_cmd.cpp saveload/company_sl.cpp): -Codechange: Separate static loadable fields from Company into separate struct.
10:15<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19980 /trunk/src/ (fios.h fios_gui.cpp lang/english.txt saveload/company_sl.cpp): -Add: Load some general data from savegames on SL_LOAD_CHECK.
10:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19981 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Read NewGRF configuration during SL_LOAD_CHECK.
10:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19982 /trunk/src/fios_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Shuffle some widget positions in saveload GUIs.
10:17<planetmaker>18 more to go :-)
10:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19983 /trunk/src/fios_gui.cpp: -Add: Separate nested widget array for load heightmap GUI.
10:17<b_jonas>this doesn't seem like good business. I've put single buses in small towns just so those towns grow, and when they've grown enough, the AI players put airports there.
10:17<planetmaker>17 to go ;-)
10:17<b_jonas>but then, I could buy the AIs
10:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19984 /trunk/src/ (fios.h fios_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Feature: Show some savegame details when selecting items in saveload GUIs.
10:17<b_jonas>that's just not fun though
10:17<planetmaker>b_jonas: if money is no issue anymore, just build the full service
10:17<frosch123>sorry, wrong button :p
10:17<b_jonas>good to know I have the power
10:18<b_jonas>planetmaker: nah, I don't want lots of trains because I can't manage them
10:18<planetmaker>wrong button?
10:18<b_jonas>I don't have anything against unprofitable trains, but too many trains just make the game harder to play
10:18<planetmaker>b_jonas: you know shared orders and train groups?
10:18<planetmaker>and autorenew and autoreplace?
10:19<planetmaker>If orders are well-made you just set them once and that's it. Maybe add a few more trains with the same orders later by cloning existing ones
10:19<b_jonas>train groups and stuff like that make many trains on a single line easy to manage
10:19<b_jonas>and I am doing that
10:20<b_jonas>but many lines for small towns are not easy
10:20<planetmaker>b_jonas: you can group many small towns in one group
10:20<planetmaker>when they have a common station they go to.
10:20<planetmaker>selecting then a train for a specific town can be done via the station of the small town
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10:22<planetmaker>like a<->M, b<->M, c<->M (possibly with transfer). And d<->N, e<->N, f<->N (also with transfer to big station N) and then long-distance trains M<->N
10:22<planetmaker>quite easy that way
10:22*planetmaker compiles OpenTTD r19984 :-)
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10:32<Zuu>Is the area next to Berlin Hbf walkable? or do one need to get into downtown?
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>Berlin Hbf is directly next to the government buildings (Kanzleramt, Reichstag, etc.)
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>it's basically in the city centre
10:34<planetmaker>frosch123: the new load gui is awesome :-)
10:35<planetmaker>Especially also that OpenTTD now doesn't load broken savegames anymore
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: depends on where you actually want to go ;)
10:35<planetmaker>thus avoiding useless crashes
10:35<frosch123>planetmaker: you can still load them via console :)
10:35<frosch123>or command line
10:35<planetmaker>he :-)
10:36<frosch123>but yes, ammler can now code his dedicated-server-load-savegame-but-only-after-bananas-download patch :p
10:36<Zuu>Is the 2,10 euro city mobile ticket good money on bahn?
10:36<planetmaker>the one point IMHO where the GUI could be improved is IMHO though the "check newgrf" and "load" buttons which are not well distinguishable from the panel
10:36<Ammler>that could be r20000
10:36<planetmaker>Zuu: yes. As it's return. Which would otherwise be 2,8o€ ;-)
10:37<Zuu>But I might skip it as it gives me the flexibility to walk around if I want.
10:38<planetmaker>yes. But it's not the best walking in BS from the main station
10:38<Zuu>Can you pay by cash on local transport?
10:38<Zuu>Oh, ok
10:38<planetmaker>the ticket machines should accept cash. Or the bus driver does
10:38<Zuu>ok, I've taken the included ticket then.
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10:41<__ln__>swedish kronor are not accepted
10:42<planetmaker>:-) Not quite
10:42<Zuu>heh, would like to pay with swedish kronor directly eg. 1 sek = 1 euro. :-)
10:43<Zuu>Ended up not taking the city ticket as you can't use the online-ticket on the bus according to
10:44<Zuu>But good then I have all tickets now so, don't change the date please :-D
10:44<planetmaker>The city ticket should be valid in all local public transport here
10:45<planetmaker>well, but might be sensible... maybe we want more travel on Sunday ;-)
10:46<Zuu>Im off now, got to celibrate my birth day a bit more. :-)
10:46<__ln__>the Hbf is on the British sector if i read the map correctly
10:47<planetmaker>oh :-) Happy birthday then :-)
10:47<Zuu>hehe thanks :-)
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: it's directly behind the border
10:47<__ln__>Zuu: are you going to berlin by train or plane?
10:47<Zuu>by (night) train
10:48<Zuu>It is probably going on a ferry.
10:48<Zuu>so, on a train, on a ferry.
10:48<__ln__>Zuu: and the same route back?
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>or is it Malmö?
10:49<Zuu>I could take the night train to hannover, but that would arrive at 4 am. I'll be at 6 am in Berlin which is a bit more okay. :-)
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>i can never tell with you weird nordic people ;)
10:49<Zuu>Not sure where in germany it arrives but it is not going on the ship exactly in Malmö. Probably Trelleborg.
10:50<Zuu>Going back is via land/brige.
10:50<Zuu>eg. day-train to copenhagen.
10:51<Zuu>and then local train.
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>and hamburg-copenhagen doesn't go via ferry in fehmarn?
10:52<Zuu>possible, it's not my problem. :-)
10:52<planetmaker>:-) not going back explains the unavailability of the city ticket :-)
10:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19985 /trunk/src/saveload/company_sl.cpp: -Fix (r19980): Loading preview data from old savegames failed indeterministically due to non-zeroed memory allocation. Thanks smatz.
10:54*SpComb wonders what happens after someone goes and commits r19999
10:55<Zuu>Then we'll get a week long freeze :-)
10:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19986 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix (r19841): One could add and remove Grfs from the list via doubleclicking even if editing the list is not allowed.
10:59<frosch123>SpComb: maybe we start the bbq and watch wt3 doing the rest :p
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: the next commit will be 20001 then ;)
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11:04<__ln__>is there some interesting city between BS and Berlin at which one should stop for a while?
11:05<frosch123>is there a city at all?
11:05<__ln__>a town then
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11:12<frosch123>i guess you have to either go more southish or northish
11:13<frosch123>or stay around braunschweig, watch wolfenbuttel, old salzgitter steel mill and such
11:13<__ln__>there's Magdeburg, but is it interesting?
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11:14<Darko>hi all
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>other than the cathedral, there's not much interesting in magdeburg...
11:14<frosch123>no idea, i never was there. only know it via otto von guericke
11:15<frosch123>if you want to go east, you are likely better of with leipzig
11:15<frosch123>eddi might know more details
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>that's not exactly "between" BS and Berlin ;)
11:16<frosch123>if you ignore north-south :p
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>it's almost directly south of berlin
11:16<frosch123>no, that is dresden
11:16<__ln__>indeed not :) and since my time is limited, maybe i'll just go directly to berlin and see leipzig and dresden some other time
11:16<Darko>it had the Games Convention salon here
11:18<__ln__>trying to see too much in too little time is not often the best choice
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>the "problem" with Magdeburg is that basically the whole city was destroyed in the war
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>almost no building except the cathedral was unharmed...
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>and then it was rebuilt in "socialistic" style
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>which doesn't have any interesting details...
11:21<__ln__>except the socialistic style itself
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11:22<planetmaker>[17:14] <Eddi|zuHause> other than the cathedral, there's not much interesting in magdeburg... <-- the Hundertwasser building and the Otto v. Guericke statue :-)
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>hundertwasser? i would've thought that was after the war...
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>is he really that old yet?
11:23<planetmaker>it might (will?) be newer. But it's worth a look
11:23<planetmaker>so it's interesting :-)
11:23<SmatZ>planetmaker: what is the average price per km with DB? (or whatever else transport company)
11:24<planetmaker>SmatZ: no idea really. It's cheaper per km the further you go actually
11:24<SmatZ>ok :)
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>it tends to be more expensive than fuel...
11:24<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: not quite. But about the same
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11:25<planetmaker>SmatZ: you can read German:
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11:28<planetmaker>according to that: random settings for ICE connections and a ~30% sub-linear increase for IC/EC connections
11:28<planetmaker>(30% for 600km relative to the short connections)
11:29<planetmaker>14ct per kilometer for that
11:29<SmatZ>it seems the only connection I could find from Prague is via Berlin
11:29<SmatZ>~600km in total
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>not via Leipzig?
11:31<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: nope, at least not on that Saturday
11:32<planetmaker>SmatZ: I get a connection on that Saturday from Praha to Braunschweig via Berlin in 6:30h
11:32<planetmaker>for 39€ (maybe)
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>if i book now, it's 38€ (with return next day, limited to specific train) or 69€ (with return next day, unlimited)
11:32<planetmaker>starting either 6:30am or 8:30am
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11:32<SmatZ>planetmaker: I couldn't find the price, but I suppose that's the same connection :)
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11:33<planetmaker>normal price is 140€ though ;-)
11:33<planetmaker>39€ is the "Sparpreis" without refund, re-booking etc pp
11:35<planetmaker>return price might be like 110€ for the cheapest connection - provided it can still be booked
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>using only local trains is 58,60€
11:35<planetmaker>and 205€ for normal fare
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11:36<SmatZ>ok, thanks for help :)
11:36<planetmaker>so going by train after all? :-)
11:37<SmatZ>nope :-p
11:37<planetmaker>it's still 2h longer than car indeed :-)
11:37<SmatZ>~500km by car is <100€
11:38<SmatZ>and maybe I will manage to pickup someone :)
11:38<planetmaker>refuel just before the border I advise :-)
11:38<planetmaker>in CZ :-)
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11:39<SmatZ>diesel costs ~1,25€ / l nowadays :(
11:39<planetmaker>I re-fueled for 1.17€ yesterday
11:39<SmatZ>hehe :)
11:40<planetmaker>ok, so my advice to refuel in CZ might not have been good ;-)
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know diesel prices right now...
11:40<SpComb>drive to saudi arabia and tank there
11:40<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: 1.17€ / l.
11:41<planetmaker>It shouldn't be grossly different around Halle ;-)
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: those vary between regions
11:41<Ammler>our diesel might be cheaper
11:41<planetmaker>they do. But not more than 10%
11:41<planetmaker>rather 5%
11:41<SmatZ>I would also expect german diesel to be of higher quality
11:42<planetmaker>I'd suspect that Diesel is somewhat standardized
11:42<planetmaker>at least some minimum requirements
11:42<SmatZ>there was some affair with mixing diesel with "additives" so it is cheaper
11:42*SmatZ is really looking forward for the meeting :)
11:43<planetmaker>well. In Germany you have 5? 10? % "Biodiesel" added by law
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11:43<Markk>How commons is it with ethanol?
11:43<Markk>Or E85.
11:43<SmatZ>I think that's EU-wise
11:43<planetmaker>thus non-regenerative fuel is spent in order to get diesel from rapeseeds
11:44<planetmaker>that might be, too
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>lots of poorer countries get enormous food supply problems, because more and more agrarical area is used for "regenerative fuel"
11:55<SmatZ>I heard that too
11:55<SmatZ>I don't have any opinion because I am hardly an expert :)
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12:05<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: so, have you decided now to go by car?
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12:07<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: well, it seems to be the cheapest,quickest and most comfortable way
12:07<SmatZ>one problem might be German police checks
12:07<SmatZ>they for some reason don't like czech drivers
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>police rarely check passenger cars...
12:08<planetmaker>SmatZ: what could they do?
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12:09<SmatZ>there are over 100 official complains agains german police being too "strict"
12:09<SmatZ>like, forcing people to pee near the road for drug tests
12:10<SmatZ>hours of checking of items in the car
12:10<SmatZ>taking people to the police station
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>i still believe it would be best if you pick me up on the way
12:12<SmatZ>generally bad and arrogant behaviour from the german police
12:12<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: can be :)
12:12<SmatZ>would be a nice thing I would say
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>need to decide where and when...
12:12<SmatZ>other problem is that several things are forbidden in Germany, what Czechs don't know
12:13<SmatZ>like, pyrotechnics and bigger knives
12:13<SmatZ>so people are fined for that
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is true
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>but the reverse is also true, other countries can require you to have e.g. warn vests in your car, which is only required for trucks in germany
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>or drive with lights on, which is quite new in germany
12:14<SmatZ>quite many german drivers are suprised by the zero-alcohol level law :-p
12:15<SmatZ>so they are highly fined for 0.01% BAC
12:15<SmatZ>~2kEuro iirc
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>i'd generally challenge such a measurement...
12:16<SmatZ>well, you can ask for second measurement in 30 minutes
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12:16<SmatZ>and then you are taken for blood tests
12:16<SmatZ>even if the blood test shows you have zero level now, still it's very irritating
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>30 minutes might be a lot for 0.01%
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: i'm available for picking up on the 19th after 12:00, and must be back on the 20th before 11:00
12:18<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: a guide for alcohol is 0.01% per hour, though
12:18<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you could still take back a train.
12:18<SmatZ>luckily, I have never experienced that
12:19<SmatZ>the party is only on Saturday
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, but i believe the 19€ offer is only valid if i reserve three days in advance
12:19<SmatZ>so it's probably fine to leave on Sunday
12:20<planetmaker>he, that's leaving at <9am
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12:20<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it's about 2 hours
12:20<SmatZ>I am afraid that's too early
12:20<planetmaker>driving needs a sound sleep beforehand :-)
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>i can drive half the way ;)
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12:24<SmatZ>hehe :)
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12:28<+glx><Eddi|zuHause> but the reverse is also true, other countries can require you to have e.g. warn vests in your car, which is only required for trucks in germany <-- and for some countries it's one per passenger
12:29<SpComb>highvis vest manufacturers rejoice
12:29<+glx>for now we just need one :)
12:30<+glx>and a triangle
12:30<SmatZ>you can't HOLD mobile phone while driving
12:30<SmatZ>but you can use hands-free set
12:30<SmatZ>or someone else can hold the phone for you :-p
12:30<+glx>you can't smoke, eat, drink water
12:31<SmatZ>"drink water"? what about other liquids?
12:32<+glx>I said water because alcohol was of course forbiden
12:32<SmatZ>ok :)
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12:32<SmatZ>sometimes, there are such illogical things in a law
12:32<SmatZ>so I would believe you are forbidden to drink water
12:32<SmatZ>but not for example cola
12:33<+glx>well the law is not that explicit
12:35<+glx>it just says you must be able to execute all maneouvre required for vehicle driving
12:35<+glx>ie you need your both hands free
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm... how accurate is google's travel time suggestion?
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>does it know that A2/A14 may be more crowded and thus slower than B6?
12:36<+glx>it's based on distance I think
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>considering that both roads have no speed limit
12:37<SmatZ>are roads crowded on Saturday/Sunday morning?
12:37<planetmaker>SmatZ: usually not so
12:37<planetmaker>especially not Sunday
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>most crowded is probably friday afternoon, sunday evening...
12:37<SmatZ>it shouldn't matter much then :)
12:38<planetmaker>Monday morning actually also quite so :-)
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12:39<Eddi|zuHause>google says B6 is 20 minutes longer, but i don't quite believe it...
12:41<SmatZ>hmm tooo long :(
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12:42<+glx>try tinyurl ;)
12:43<SmatZ>thanks ;)
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>"You've been driving for almost 2 hours, take a break!" ;)
12:45<+glx>yes viamichelin style :)
12:47<+glx>I like how they reproduce the exact panels
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, google tries to do that also
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>glx: but this doesn't seem to be very specific within towns...
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13:30<VVG>Is it possible to save size and position of newgrf manager window?
13:31<Alberth>you cannot save window sizes and positions
13:44<Sacro>das ist verboten
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r19987 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by josesun
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 11 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 11 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: german - 11 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
13:47<SpComb>6 days to r20k party
13:47<SpComb>that's 2 commits / day
13:47<SpComb>leaves one for the party itself
13:49*andythenorth got diverted into Lego :)
13:50<andythenorth>planetmaker: does your map size diff build without errors? :)
13:52<andythenorth>if you want to commit it?
13:54<planetmaker>andythenorth: I haven't really tested it :-)
13:54<planetmaker>but I'd assume so :-P
13:55<planetmaker>main question is: do you want the real map size or the log of the map size
13:55<PeterT>let's go germans!
13:55<PeterT>next game starts in 35 minutes ;-)
13:56<planetmaker>indeed it does
13:56<PeterT>I played Germany vs. Australia on FIFA '09 and germany won 6-3 :-D
13:57<andythenorth>planetmaker: I don't maths is rusty
13:57<andythenorth>if it helps, I'm going to have to branch to multiple varact 2 to cover these different range limits for:
13:57<planetmaker>well. YOU want to query it later. It's just a matter of the size of the numbers you want to deal with
13:58<andythenorth>in my paste, the actual dimension should be replaced by tile count
13:58<planetmaker>ok, then we use it (nearly) as is. It doesn't compile. I forgot an escape
13:58<Ammler>PeterT: so the computer was Germany?
13:59<andythenorth>planetmaker: :)
13:59<andythenorth>the ranges are calculated in a way that one of you might be able to make very efficient
14:00<andythenorth>possibly avoiding branching varact 2 and swapping it for an advanced varact 2
14:00<andythenorth>I take a map 'unit' as 262144 tiles (512^2)
14:01<andythenorth>then the range is calculated as 2 + (2 * 'units')
14:02<andythenorth>perhaps 2 + (2 * (map size / 262144)) will work?
14:02<andythenorth>or perhaps not
14:03<planetmaker>well. One then could form the parameter properly straight away. E.g. in units of 64^2 or 256^2 or so
14:03<andythenorth>there must be a way to do only one range check for all map sizes, but my maths is too poor :P
14:04<andythenorth>there's nothing wrong with branching varact 2, but it's....inelegant
14:04<planetmaker>Just dividing the map count by the number of tiles of the minimum unit you want to consider
14:05<planetmaker>hm... grfcodec complains about a verbatim copy from the newgrf wiki :S
14:06<andythenorth>there should be a way to get a result for industry count per unit that is either 1 (enough) or 0 (not enough)
14:06<andythenorth>how does division work with bytecode?
14:07<andythenorth>if I do 3/4 what is the result ?
14:07<andythenorth>9/10 = 0?
14:07<andythenorth>but 10/10 = 1
14:07<andythenorth>there is probably a way then
14:07<planetmaker> 112 * 9 0D \b12 \D= 13 FE FF FF 00 00 // get the map size (global parameter 13) <-- grfcodec complains about this
14:07<planetmaker>anyone any idea?
14:08<planetmaker> //!!Error (123): Source parameter 1 is invalid.
14:09<planetmaker> <Sprite-number> * <Length> 0D <target> <operation> <variable> FE FF FF 00 00 <-- but tells me exactly that format...
14:10<andythenorth>I had similar yesterday, frosch123 said it might be a renum error
14:10<andythenorth>Also, I think this is the maths I need:
14:11<planetmaker>so... shall I give you the number of 512^2 units?
14:11<planetmaker>instead of map size?
14:11<andythenorth>think so
14:11<andythenorth>let's try it, because baroque advanced varact 2 is always cooler than branching :P
14:13<planetmaker>ok. I'll give you both, 512^2 counts (rounded down) and your industry_cluster_parameter
14:14<planetmaker>@calc base(512*512,2)
14:14<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Error: 'base' is not a defined function.
14:14<planetmaker>@calc log(512*512,2)
14:14<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 18
14:19<planetmaker>@calc 512**2
14:19<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 262144
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>... i really hate this vuvuzela sound...
14:23<planetmaker>andythenorth: there are then the two parameters at your disposal: INDUSTRY_CLUSTER_PARAMETER (=2+2* MAP_SIZE_PARAMETER) and MAP_SIZE_PARAMETER (=number of 512^2 maps)
14:23<PeterT>Ammler: I was germany ;)
14:23<planetmaker>andythenorth: pushed
14:24<frosch123>andythenorth: planetmaker: be carf
14:24<frosch123>carful with scaling :)
14:24<planetmaker>scaling to 0 is fine
14:25<frosch123>number of industries is only 8 bits, so you cannot control more than 256 clusters
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14:25<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: have you considered that Ballack can't play and lots of young players have been appointed?
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14:25<planetmaker>frosch123: that's not feasable with that formula
14:25<planetmaker>there can only be 16 times a 512^2 map in a max sized map
14:25<planetmaker>so the max. amount can be 2*16 + 2 clusters given the formula
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14:38<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: I don't really follow soccer
14:38<PeterT>germany just scored!
14:38<fonsinchen>There is noise outside ...
14:39<frosch123>yeah, i also heard some noise
14:39<fonsinchen>eek, they have fireworks
14:39*fonsinchen hides in the basement
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>fireworks is forbidden, except a few days around silvester
14:42<fonsinchen>obviously they don't care
14:42<fonsinchen>mad 'dchlaaand guys are dangerous and reckless ...
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>well... they don't give out hundreds of thousands of fines because of unfounded use of the honk ;)
14:44<fonsinchen>yeah, that would be fun. Cops standing on Sonnenallee and fining everyone who honks unnecessarily
14:44<fonsinchen>They'd be quite busy, not only today.
14:45<fonsinchen>But I'm going to the basement now, as a matter of fact ;) nice evening to all of you.
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15:25<PeterT>planetmaker: can you take a screenshot of the new savegame features?
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15:26<planetmaker>I can. But why can't you?
15:26<planetmaker>the nightly should have it.
15:26<PeterT>oh, didn't even notice the nightlies have finished ;-)
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15:30<PeterT>frosch123: very nice! :-D
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15:32<frosch123>be careful, don't crash it
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15:41<Ammler>yes, not many commits left to fix it until next weekend :-P
15:41<planetmaker>r20000: Fix (r1) blubber blah
15:42<frosch123>-Add: Cake to my stomach.
15:42<+glx>@commit 10000
15:42<@DorpsGek>glx: Commit r10000 doesn't exists
15:43<+glx>or like that :)
15:43<Ammler>tgp or something strange
15:43<planetmaker>@openttd commit r15000
15:43<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Invalid arguments for _commit.
15:44<planetmaker>@openttd commit 15000
15:44<Ammler>is there something in or just a empty folder?
15:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit by truebrain :: r15000 /branches/noai/src (ai/ai.hpp saveload/ai_sl.cpp) (2009-01-12 10:47:53 UTC)
15:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: [NoAI] -Fix (r14984): forgot to rename @file too
15:44<planetmaker>@openttd commit 10000
15:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit r10000 doesn't exists
15:44<planetmaker>still not ;-)
15:44<planetmaker>@openttd commit 10000
15:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit r10000 doesn't exists
15:44<planetmaker>@openttd commit 1
15:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
15:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
15:44<Ammler>it is a commit to a restricted branch
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>afair, the "restricted branch" has been removed
15:46<Ammler>the only "forbidden" rev afaik
15:47<PeterT>why is it forbidden/restricted?
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>because it wasn't a public (as in GPL) project
15:47<Ammler>hmm, then it might be the removal of it :-)
15:48<PeterT>but, Eddi|zuHause, just that one commit?
15:48<Ammler>PeterT: read the logs, maybe you find others...
15:49<planetmaker>what was the purpose of that restricted branch?
15:50<Ammler>to make fun about r10k
15:51<Ammler>maybe someone should crawl for irc discussion around that time :-)
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15:54<frosch123>there was a topic about "what is r10000 going to be"
15:55<elho>(in trying to get accustomed with them new (to me ;)) pbs): the only difference between A and B is, that B is a tiny bit more efficient as paths become free a bit earlier than the exit signals are passed, right?
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think "there won't be a r10k" was an option there ;)
15:56<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: there was :)
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15:56<frosch123>though i do not know whether that suggestion was posted first, or the devs decided the strategy first :)
15:56<elho>there's always room for denial :P
16:00<planetmaker>hm. But CIA didn't tell what r10k was :-)
16:00<frosch123> <- another one
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>there was no r10k
16:01<Ammler>hehe Roujin didn't know how svn log worked on that time ;-)
16:05<planetmaker>Commit by rubidium :: r10000 (none) (2007-05-31 15:16:44 UTC)
16:05<frosch123>is that from dorpsgek logs?
16:07*andythenorth cracks knuckles and ponders advanced varact 2
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16:07<Eddi|zuHause>Löw kinda looks like spock in blue shirt...
16:08<frosch123>hmm, why is there no r20000 topic like that. someone could suggest to change the name of ottd :p
16:08<andythenorth>frosch123: during cb 28, using persistent storage for debug is a no-go?
16:09<frosch123>very much :)
16:09<andythenorth>ho hum
16:09<planetmaker>Ammler: I didn't know either and wasn't even around ;-)
16:10*andythenorth doesn't want to get into procedure calls
16:10*andythenorth wants some one else to write this code :P
16:11<Ammler>planetmaker: I don't want to know my dummy questions from that time :-)
16:17*andythenorth does it the easy way with branching varact 2
16:19<Ammler>irc logs should be "cleaned" after some short time :-P
16:22<andythenorth>planetmaker: INDUSTRY_CLUSTER_PARAMETER is a dword?
16:22<andythenorth>(result is a dword)?
16:22*elho prefers his question to stay there until it is answered ;P
16:22<planetmaker>hm... aren't all parameters?
16:23<planetmaker>a dword?
16:23<planetmaker>or is it bad to use parameter numbers \b14 \b13 and assume both are a dword without interference?
16:24<Ammler>you should initialize parameters with actiond
16:24<andythenorth>ooh hiny
16:25<andythenorth>shiny /s
16:25<planetmaker>Well, that's what I do... I first assign them a value before I manipulate them
16:25<andythenorth>planetmaker: INDUSTRY_CLUSTER_PARAMETER seems to work :)
16:25<planetmaker>where that value comes from shouldn't matter.
16:25<planetmaker>nice :-)
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16:26<frosch123>hmm, the log around r10000 is filled with nicks from the past :p
16:26<planetmaker>very much indeed :-)
16:27<andythenorth>planetmaker: :o actually the values of INDUSTRY_CLUSTER_PARAMETER aren't quite what I expect
16:27<andythenorth>let me see why
16:27<planetmaker>what are they?
16:27<planetmaker>maybe my math is wrong :-)
16:28<andythenorth>I'll do a paste in a minute
16:29<Ammler>frosch123: only maedhros is inactive now
16:30<andythenorth>planetmaker: the results of INDUSTRY_CLUSTER_PARAMETER are in hex not dec?
16:30<andythenorth>or I assume they are anyway :)
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16:31<planetmaker>I might have erred with the bit shift...
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16:33<andythenorth>looks like a simple error with multiplication?
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16:35<planetmaker>looks like
16:36<planetmaker>let's see
16:36<pugi>4:0 :D:D
16:36<planetmaker>found it, andythenorth
16:37<planetmaker>+-1 * 0 0D INDUSTRY_CLUSTER_PARAMETER \D= MAP_SIZE_PARAMETER FF \d02 // Multiply map_size_parameter by 2
16:37<planetmaker>the operator shoud be \D*
16:37<planetmaker>try that
16:37<planetmaker>in parameters.pnfo
16:37<andythenorth>will do
16:40<andythenorth>planetmaker: win
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16:44<andythenorth>oh poop
16:45<andythenorth>I need just the count from var 67
16:46<andythenorth>so mask 00FF0000 ?
16:46<andythenorth>format is rrccdddd where I want cc
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16:59<andythenorth>under what circumstance can 81 dec be represented as 89h ?
17:01<andythenorth>I guess something is wrong then
17:01<Alberth>print bin(81) + " " + bin(0x89) <-- 0b1010001 0b10001001 bit patterns are different
17:02<SmatZ>Alberth: what language is that, basic?
17:02<SmatZ>looks like basic :)
17:02<SmatZ>nice :)
17:03<andythenorth>what have I done wrong now :(
17:03<andythenorth>I want BB from this word: xxBBxxxx
17:03<Alberth>(w >> 16) & 0xff
17:04<andythenorth>so what am I doing with my shift?
17:05<Alberth>NFO looks like random sequence of bytes to me
17:05<planetmaker>s/random// and it's true
17:06<andythenorth>I need to set bit 5 (advanced) and do a shift of 16
17:06<Alberth>I didnt' say whether the sequence or the bytes were random :)
17:06<andythenorth>so 20 + 10 = 30
17:06<Alberth>good night all
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17:16*andythenorth finds the mistake :P
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17:22<Yexo>good evening
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17:23<planetmaker>Alberth was missing you :-)
17:25<Yexo>I've already seen a lot of nice commits :)
17:25<planetmaker>I think he needs some input on some of his issues
17:26<planetmaker>and he'd be very happy if you could comment on them
17:26<Yexo>I'll take another look at the issue tracker in a moment
17:26<planetmaker>he went already to sleep. So no rush :-)
17:28<planetmaker>nice :-)
17:28<@peter1138>honey nut?
17:29<andythenorth>hard to work out, simple to write, hard to test :P
17:29<andythenorth>pushed, if anyone wants to try and break it with different map sizes
17:30*planetmaker will try 64x2048
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17:31*Terkhen likes
17:31<Terkhen>I'll try it tomorrow :)
17:32*planetmaker likes it, too. And works on 64x2048
17:36<__ln__>planetmaker, should "we" bring something with us? (the "we" besides the ones bringing a cake)
17:41<planetmaker>__ln__: besides contributions in form of cake or bbq stuff: not really
17:41<planetmaker>and those two can be out-sourced to me, too
17:44<Ammler>then, it isn't _out_-sourced :-P
17:45<planetmaker>__ln__: I simply need to know for how many I shall organize / what people bring
17:45<planetmaker>so that I don't have 20 cakes the next day and 3 kg of meat left.
17:46<planetmaker>or all people starving and complaining
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17:56<elho>what's wrong with 3 kg meat?
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17:58<planetmaker>elho: it'd be a BBQ next day at 'versity. But still...
17:59<elho>it could also be a nice breakfast, lunch and dinner :D
18:05<andythenorth>64 x 2048 makes for rather a nice map with clusters :)
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18:07<ccfreak2k>Is it gonna have a r20000 cake with the intro screen?
18:08<__ln__>does someone want something exclusively finnish to eat or drink? :) (something that is not available in germany)
18:09<XeryusTC>planetmaker: why didnt you organise the r20k party in 3 weeks time, on a weekday, in the dutchlands
18:09<XeryusTC>i could've annoyed you irl too then :)
18:10<__ln__>i think you just gave three reasons why not :) (r20k, weekday)
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>XeryusTC: in three weeks is kinda three weeks too late...
18:14<XeryusTC>well, at least you're sure r20k has been reached then ;)
18:14<planetmaker>we're sure now :-)
18:15<XeryusTC>heh, ok :P
18:15<planetmaker>I mean... you're sure your birthday will be <whenever> ;-)
18:15<planetmaker>not only when it already is past ;-)
18:15<XeryusTC>well, there is a chance that you die in the meantime
18:16<XeryusTC>maybe the same thing would happen to the server, although it is quit unlikely :P
18:16<planetmaker>wouldn't matter. Sufficient external copies nowadays
18:16<planetmaker>though it might delay commits
18:16<XeryusTC>indeed :P
18:17<XeryusTC>anyway, i would've come if it didnt cost me any money, as i have a negative budget atm :(
18:17<planetmaker>death on the other hand might be more terminal ;-)
18:17<XeryusTC>death is not terminal for the first few minutes
18:19<__ln__>XeryusTC: nor if you believe what the bible says
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18:27<planetmaker>however... good night for now :-)
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18:37<Terkhen>good night
18:42<b_jonas>good night
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18:46<elho>does laoding time in tram stations depend on platform length, like with trains?
18:52<Yexo>and for trains it only matters if the train is longer then the platform
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19:04<elho>Yexo: yes, of course. and a 3 vehicle tram is longer than a single station (but fits in a double one), so i wondered... :)
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22:17<Vadtec>who here is responsible for managing the wiki? as in adding extensions n such
22:20<PeterT>Rubidium / TrueBrain are the website personel
22:23<Vadtec>ok, i wrote an extension to mediawiki that might be useful to openttd, was just gonna pass it along to them
22:24<PeterT>if you don't mind me asking, what does the extension do?
22:25<PeterT>also, it's 4 AM in Europe which is where they are residing. if you can, stay until the morning and give it to them when they get back
22:25<Vadtec>and there are examples at
22:25<Vadtec>ah ok, i will be up for the next few hours, so ill try to catch them then
22:26<Vadtec>please keep in mind
22:26<Vadtec>the examples are out of sync with some of the features i added in today
22:26<Vadtec>im currently updating them right now
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 14 00:00:27 2010