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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-06-29

---Logopened Tue Jun 29 00:00:46 2010
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02:47<Lassie>I was wondering if it's possible to have an AI play for you, in your own company
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04:30<attish>hello! is there a way to reset a company's password on the server? one of my players forgot their password...
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04:32<@Rubidium>attish: there are basically two ways; 1 is enabling autoclean for passworded companies which removes passwords of companies that don't have a player after a certain amount of months, but that might remove other passwords as well
04:33<@Rubidium>option 2 is letting the player join as spectator and then the server (via console or rcon) can move the player to the passworded company and then the player can change the password of that company
04:36<attish>option 2 sounds OK, thanks!
04:36<attish>I'll give it a try
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05:20<tdev>hi all :)
05:21*tdev is requesting a chat message that is linked to a map location
05:21<tdev>like a http link embedded in the multiplayer chat
05:22<planetmaker>tdev you can give the tile coordinates...
05:23<planetmaker>then anyone can use scrolto
05:23<tdev>never knew that
05:23<planetmaker>but scrolto only works from console. But still
05:23<tdev>uh :/
05:23<planetmaker>Easiest way what we do: put a sign of where you're talking
05:23<planetmaker>That's easy. Click on it in the list and you're there
05:24<planetmaker>or give station or town name
05:24<planetmaker>or vehicle number
05:24<planetmaker>All those are accessible via click
05:24<tdev>i am thinking of this:
05:24<tdev>so i could create a message where the user can go to the position where ppl currently work on
05:25<tdev>like a bot command
05:26<planetmaker>that's what the console is for
05:26<tdev>about what a player is currently doing
05:26<planetmaker>not the ingame chat
05:26<planetmaker>and it works from console
05:26<planetmaker>everyone has access to it
05:26<planetmaker>and it wouldn't be different to type that in the console or the chat
05:26<planetmaker>so: it's already there :-)
05:26<tdev>can i send messages to clients to the console only?
05:26<tdev>so i dont get it
05:27<planetmaker>Well... what do you want?
05:27<planetmaker>To auto-move players?
05:27<tdev>i have some 5 player game
05:27<tdev>80% of the time they are idling
05:27<tdev>when i join as company #3 i can ask the bot who is active and in what area
05:28<tdev>the bot already has that idling reply
05:28<tdev>but its not easy to deliver the position
05:29<tdev>for example, the bot would send to that user:
05:29<planetmaker>oh, I'd love to give away where I'm working
05:29<tdev>company 1 was last active at <a href="(x,y)"> here</a>
05:29<planetmaker>It's not the business of other players to know unless I want them to know
05:29<planetmaker>It will be abused for grieving and blocking. No doubt
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05:30<tdev>you opt-in to that service of the bot
05:31<Ammler>tdev: you know the patches watch-gui or center-player?
05:31<planetmaker>tdev, so... I opt in. And what service does the bot then provide?
05:31<planetmaker>moin fjb
05:31<tdev>planetmaker: its a plugin based system
05:31<planetmaker>and how would it provide that service?
05:31<tdev>it can even offer a tea timer if you have such a plugin
05:32<planetmaker>you didn't answer my question :-)
05:32<tdev>oh, its a spectator
05:32<tdev>in the game
05:32<planetmaker>By what means would it then make it easier for me to scroll to the position another player builds?
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05:32<tdev>you can ask the bot for what a certain player is doing
05:33<tdev>the bot would then reply with the latest docoomand position from that company
05:34<tdev>for example, the webserver (displaying a player list) and the IRC bridge are also plugins
05:34<tdev>if you write an rcon plugin, you could automate rcon commands
05:34<tdev>or vote for option/variable changes
05:34<tdev>as you like it to be :)
05:38<tdev>also, congrats to r20k :)
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06:14<planetmaker>tdev, I don't see where the bot comes into play there...
06:14<planetmaker>an IRC bridge exists (actually more than one)
06:14<planetmaker>a patch exists which exposes the latest player activity
06:14<planetmaker>and a scrolto command exists, too
06:14<planetmaker>it 'just' needs combining
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07:03<Sacro>@seen Bjarnio
07:03<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen Bjarnio.
07:03<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
07:03<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 17 weeks, 5 days, 11 hours, 38 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <-- wtf. Some rich guy built a trebuchet and uses burning pianos as ammo
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07:11<Mazur>@seen Bambi
07:11<@DorpsGek>Mazur: I have not seen Bambi.
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07:11<Mazur>Neither have I.
07:11<Mazur>Hiya, CB.
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07:36<planetmaker> <-- peter1138 I think I have a small desire concerning rail types
07:36<planetmaker>or I'd like to get a hint of how to circumvent this :-)
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07:47<lusted_gay>speccing my first online game, how come some players have traffic lights like every 2-3 rail piece
07:47<lusted_gay>on railroads
07:49<Lassie>you mean why, or how do they do it?
07:49<lusted_gay>pardon my english, i mean why...
07:50<lusted_gay>i've (up tot his) only used them in crossovers etc
07:50<Noldo_>it allows many trains to go in the same direction quite close to each other
07:50<lusted_gay>ah, will a train stop if its to "close" to anotheR?
07:51<Noldo_>if the next signal block is free the train can move forward
07:51<lusted_gay>aah.. that makes sense
07:52<lusted_gay>also, when you have 1 railroad from production to delivery (or two), but multiplie unloading stations, does it auto balance which track to use?
07:52<lusted_gay>(if that was understandable)
07:52<Lassie>a train won't enter a piece of rails where another train runs if there's a signal
07:53<lusted_gay>hmm.. i need to study this a bit more i can see :)
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07:53<Lassie>check out the wiki
07:53<Lassie>about signals
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07:53<Lassie>it's very clear with examples etc
07:54<Noldo_> this might be interesting too
07:54<lusted_gay>will do, thanks a lot guys.
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08:27<planetmaker>I salute you, sir Belugas
08:30<@Belugas>so do I, sir partymaker, so do I
08:34<Ammler>hello you
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08:43<planetmaker>@calc 255 / 3.2 * 1.6
08:43<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 127.5
08:44<@Belugas>hi hi Ammler
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09:11<Mazur>You know, keeping down running costs helps desert trains make a profit.
09:11<Mazur>Who would have thought...
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11:37<PeterT>hello Narcissus
11:37<Narcissus>Hi PeterT
11:37<PeterT>you're the server admin for anubis?
11:38<PeterT>join #standard
11:38<welshdragon>(if you want)
11:44<welshdragon>My Standard Server lives!
11:45<welshdragon>join #standard if you wish to play
11:45*MeCooL Hi
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13:14<planetmaker>folks, I'd appreciate it a lot, if you could translate me one single sentence:
13:15<@Belugas>the bold one?
13:18<planetmaker>yes :-)
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>translate into what?
13:20<planetmaker>whitespace of course ;-)
13:20<planetmaker>I guess you don't need to translate it into your mother tongue, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
13:22<@Belugas>firt part is not fun to translate
13:23<planetmaker>First part? You mean the somewhat non-sentence "OpenMSX music set"?
13:23<planetmaker>Translate it freely
13:24<planetmaker>it just needs to be clear. And the name should be in it.
13:24<+glx>use the original translation as inspiration maybe
13:24<planetmaker>Well, I guess I can remove the CCSP1.0 part of the 2nd sentence in most languages. But definitely not in all, and I have no real clue about the sentence structure in many. So...
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13:26<@Belugas>for the second part, i've came yup with "Disponible gratuitement sous licence GPL v2. Les crédits complets se trouvent dans "readme.txt""
13:27<@Belugas>although.... credits....
13:27<+glx>- openmsx.obm: OpenMSX music replacement set for OpenTTD. Freely available under the terms of the GPL v2 and the Creative Commons Sampling Plus 1.0 License. For full credits see "readme.txt".
13:27<+glx>- openmsx.obm: Musiques de remplacement OpenMSX pour OpenTTD. Disponible librement selon les termes des licences GPL v2 et Creative Commons Sampling Plus 1.0 Licence. Pour les crédits complets voir "readme.txt".
13:27<+glx>- openmsx.obm: OpenMSX music replacement set for OpenTTD. Freely available under the terms of the GPL v2. For full credits see "readme.txt".
13:27<+glx>- openmsx.obm: Musiques de remplacement OpenMSX pour OpenTTD. Disponible librement selon les termes des licences GPL v2. Pour les crédits complets voir "readme.txt".
13:27<PeterT>Wolf01: morning?
13:27<Wolf01>why not?
13:27<PeterT>Wolf01: you're in italy
13:28<Wolf01>are you sure I'm not using a proxy?
13:28<PeterT>yep, because you own an italian forum, too
13:28<@Belugas>glx, you are a beast!
13:28<Wolf01>I might be on Mars
13:28<PeterT>I've been to it
13:28<+glx>Belugas: I just c/p what I did for the first version ;)
13:28<PeterT>A martian who speaks italian? I think not..
13:28<@Belugas>ok :)
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13:28<Wolf01>and the server I use as webserver could be a proxy too.. and it's located in Italy
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13:30<+glx>hmm " des licences" -> "de la licence" :)
13:30<+glx>too much c/p
13:33<Vitus>Hello, I've got a question about . While reverting r19896 solves this, it's not really wanted solution. So, I'm wondering whether this can be fixed (theoretically) while preserving r19896. Thank you
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd commit 19896
13:44<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Commit by michi_cc :: r19896 trunk/src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp (2010-05-26 05:24:58 UTC)
13:44<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: -Fix [FS#3803] (r18648): [YAPP] Inform the pathfinder as well about the fact that the backside of an one-way path signal can be a safe waiting point.
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13:46<Wolf01>the problem is that if you fix that bug the trains might get stuck, if you don't fix that bug trains might crash
13:46<Wolf01>what's the best of two?
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>trains without orders i'd declare as "wontfix"/"user error"
13:49<Wolf01>me too
13:52<Vitus>It also applies for trains, which cannot find route. However, there are certain network layouts, which are based on such trains, just look at PSG180 ( )
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>what part of "behaviour is undefined" is difficult to understand?
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>if you rely on one implementation of an undefined feature, you're bound to get into trouble when the implementation changes
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>if i were a dev, i'd simply close this bug report, and spend my time where it fits better...
13:57<Vitus>Well, on the other side, trains running into EOL (back of PBS in this case) when there is another route isn't exactly correct,
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>if the train is lost, there is _no_ route.
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>if the train had a route, the pathfinder wouldn't return with "cannot find route"
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>[that would really be a bug]
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>(imho, trains without route should immediately stop, though)
14:00<Vitus>Even trains without orders avoid EOL, so I don't see why should PBS be that different. But obviously I won't change your opinion. Thanks for your time anyways.
14:01<Wolf01>ETA for today's nightly?
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: about 30 minutes usually
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>Vitus: i don't know any code that tries to "avoid" EOL
14:02<Vitus>Did you actually watch trains without orders?
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>no, why would i?
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>Vitus: again. this is not about what the trains actually _do_
14:02<Wolf01>if trains w/o orders do it, it's magic, no code tells them to do it
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's about what can be programatically done to make it deterministic (or not)
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>Vitus: an implementation is not a definition
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>you want a definition where none is possible, but you watch the implementation instead...
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14:07<Wolf01>125770 if arguments$="" then goto 10
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14:09<Eddi|zuHause>the best deterministic solution i can think about is: if no route found, take the trackbit "in the general direction"
14:10<Vitus>I'm not blind, Wolf01. But I don't see any reason to stay here. I cannot give you any arguments considering the game code itself, so what would I do here?
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14:11<Wolf01>Sacro for example is here waiting for pr0n like a dog waiting for a biscuit
14:12<Sacro>someone offering biscuits?
14:13<Vitus>I mean, you don't have to be rude the second I leave this channel. Me and Eddi have totally different opinions on how this should work and I said all I wanted to say.
14:13*Alberth gives Sacro a biscuit. I have plenty :)
14:13<Sacro>i've been in here longer than most
14:15<__ln__>when the channel was first founded, Sacro was already here waiting
14:15<Sacro>when it moved to oftc ;P
14:15<Wolf01>Vitus: I'm sorry if that comment offended you, it should has been sarcastic
14:15<__ln__>Sacro: an insignificant detail
14:15<Sacro>__ln__: i'm sure you were here before me
14:16<Wolf01>!uptime *ln*;*Sacro*
14:16<linbot>Wolf01: (uptime takes no arguments) -- Returns the amount of time the bot has been running.
14:17<Vitus>Going off, take care.
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14:17<__ln__>i arrived here probably in May 2004
14:23<Sacro>think i was may/june 2005
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14:27<Eddi|zuHause>i think i came here around christmas 2005/new year 2006
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14:31<Wolf01>I... I don't remember
14:33*Sacro rememmbers a time before Wolf01
14:34<Sacro>it was peaceful :P
14:34<Wolf01>I joined the forums Sat Apr 24, 2004, wow already 6 years, but at that time I was more attracted from TTDPatch
14:34<Wolf01>so, sometimes I joined the other channel
14:35<SpComb>the other channel we shall not mention by name
14:36<Wolf01>that's why I called it "the other channel"
14:36<Wolf01>the I switched drastically to OTTD and now I'm here :D
14:36<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: don't be too harsh, in the mean time, he has learned he was wrong :)
14:37<Alberth>Wolf01: and you are most welcome
14:37<Wolf01><Sacro> it was peaceful :P -> it still does... when I don't talk
14:38<Terkhen>planetmaker: "OpenMSX es un conjunto de música para OpenTTD. Está disponible de forma libre bajo los términos de la licencia GPL v2. Para consultar los créditos completos ver fichero "readme.txt"."
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14:40<__ln__>there are no other channels
14:43<Wolf01>or The-Channel-That-Must-Not-Be-Named
14:43<Wolf01>which one is better?
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say "which-shall-not"
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14:46<Wolf01>Looks good to me, and goes for The-Channel-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named :D
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14:49<Wolf01>I think I'll made an entry on my wiki
14:55<__ln__>"I'll made"... the future past tense
14:56<Wolf01>m and k are near on my keyboard
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>this is about d and k
14:56*andythenorth joined 2007
14:57<andythenorth>forums, not irc
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15:00<andythenorth>my first post:
15:01<andythenorth>Seems I act on *some* of my suggestions at least :D
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15:02<Wolf01>I read one of my very first posts.. I almost ROFLed reading my poor English knowledge... not that now it's better, but...
15:09<Wolf01> this is my first wheeze...
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15:12<Wolf01>the best part is: "###error message### [...] i didn't know it until i read the error message"
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15:28<andythenorth> new objects not done because its not done? :)
15:28<andythenorth>it's /s
15:29<@Belugas>mmmh... what have i written again?
15:29<andythenorth>so it's not fundamentally broken / stuck on anything?
15:30<@Belugas>not broken, since it's stuck
15:31*andythenorth wonders what new objects brings that can't be done with station tiles?
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15:33<@Belugas>i started it, along with Lakie, a whle ago
15:34<@Belugas>but i kinda got trapped in some stuff with my wife, plus an acute "ecoeurantite"
15:34<@Belugas>and life at work which has been tunring into an heavy storm
15:34<@Belugas>still raging, by the way
15:34<@Belugas>a lot of new stuff, andythenorth
15:34<@Belugas>quite a lot
15:35<Wolf01>to be honest, the very first versione was started by me and Frostregen (which seem to be disappeared) as parallel project of the newobjects feature
15:40*andythenorth looks for new objects info on the forums
15:40<andythenorth>search is not my friend :(
15:41*Belugas replays Operation MindCrime. The whole album
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15:46<@Belugas>true, Wolf01. You had the idea. A good draft, it was. Too bad it had the same faith as my own attempt :(
15:48<@Belugas>andythenorth :
15:51<@Rubidium>is there a newgrf that has "logic road vehicles" (that is very fast ones) like the "logic trains"?
15:52<Wolf01>I'm looking for that one too
15:53<Terkhen>while testing fast vehicles with realistic RV acceleration I used the hover bus
15:53<Ammler>Rubidium: that need road signals :-P
15:53<Wolf01>nah, just a double car vehicle which moves and break down very fast
15:53<Wolf01>so you cant overtake it
15:54*Terkhen does not remember if the hover bus can reach its max speed with realistic acceleration on
15:54<@Rubidium>Terkhen: hover bus doesn't (easily) reproduce the problem I'm after
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15:59<@Rubidium>hmm... max NewGRF speed is only 512-ish :(
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>no extended byte for road vehicles?
16:00<Terkhen>hmmm... not fast enough? IIRC it required some tweaks in HP/TE/weight to accelerate faster
16:02<Terkhen>no, 512 is the limit
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16:05<Terkhen>I think you can hack a greater speed, I remember trying some crazy things while coding the first rv acceleration patch
16:06<@Rubidium>accelaration is the problem :(
16:07<@Rubidium>ah, without realistic they go a bit faster
16:10<@Belugas>SCREW REALISM!
16:11<Terkhen>yeah... with really fast road vehicles, air drag reduces speed a lot
16:11<Terkhen>that's why I implemented the air drag NewGRF property in the old patch
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>air drag becomes a significant factor if you go beyond 100km/h
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>that's why current truck models don't care...
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>they're not allowed to go faster than 80 in most places
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16:45<@Belugas>bye bye
16:45<Wolf01>bye Belugas
16:48<@Rubidium>night Belugas
16:48<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r20034 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: (log message trimmed)
16:48<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3896] (r14869): road vehicles could get crashed twice in a tick
16:48<CIA-9>OpenTTD: In RoadVehicleController at tick N a road vehicle gets a j of slightly less
16:48<CIA-9>OpenTTD: than adv_speed. In tick N+1 RoadVehCheckTrainCrash is called, then the road
16:48<CIA-9>OpenTTD: vehicle gets a j of slightly more than adv_speed. This causes a second call
16:49<CIA-9>OpenTTD: of RoadVehCheckTrainCrash. If in tick N the road vehicle moved onto a level
16:49<CIA-9>OpenTTD: crossing and a (maglev) entered that tile at the same tick, in tick N+1 the
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17:02<Eddi|zuHause>someone tried really hard to make the commit message longer than the commit :p
17:07<Alberth>I think someone succeeded very well in that goal :)
17:09<@Rubidium>nah, the diff is longer (in lines at least) than the message
17:09<@Rubidium>@calc 531/80
17:09<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 6.6375
17:10<@Rubidium>although in bytes I *might* have succeeded
17:10<@Rubidium>nope... it's 40 bytes short
17:13<__ln__>only 9966 commits till the next party
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17:14<Wolf01>if they continue at this speed, the next party might take place this year
17:14<@Rubidium>@calc 10000/(34*365/10)
17:14<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 8.05801772764
17:15<@Rubidium>nope, at "this" speed it's rather in 2018
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>is there a yearly curve on commit rates?
17:15<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r20035 /trunk/src/network/network_command.cpp: -Fix [FS#3909]: under some circumstances you could get into an infinite loop
17:16<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: ohloh?
17:16<Wolf01>you need 54 revisions @ day
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>i mean like "there are more commits in winter than in summer"
17:17<Wolf01>check the revision graph with tortoiseSVN
17:17<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: release fever?
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17:31<planetmaker>glx: Terkhen : thanks for the translations :-)
17:36<+glx>planetmaker: [19:30:04] <+glx> hmm " des licences" -> "de la licence" :)
17:40<planetmaker>good point :-)
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18:06<devilsadvocate>does cargodist know how to handle it if a passenger train goes from A-> B -> C-> ... -> Z like real trains do?
18:07<Terkhen>good ngiht
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18:08<@Rubidium>night Terkhen
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>devilsadvocate: what kind of "know" do you mean?
18:11*Rubidium wonders whether he means whether it knowns how to arrange busses for C -> Z because the track is broken
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18:12<devilsadvocate>as in, would it rearrange the passengers so that some get off at B, some at C, so on
18:12<devilsadvocate>kind of like how it happens really
18:13<devilsadvocate>when it says "passengers will get onto any train going to B", does that include anything going indirectly to B, as in B being the 3rd or 4th stop
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's kinda the point...
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>devilsadvocate: the passengers have a "source", "destination" and a "via" property
18:15<+glx>they go where they want to, not where you want them to go :)
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>where "via" is the next station the train goes to, and "destination" is where they really want to go
18:15<devilsadvocate>Eddi|zuHause, so lets say train 1 har oreders A->B->C, and some passengers want to get from A->C. do they get off at B and back on or do they not get on at all?
18:15<devilsadvocate>basically, im not seeing a line between A and C in the graph
18:16<devilsadvocate>so i'm not sure what is happening
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>no, that would be silly...
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>you'd end up with a completely connected graph, which is practically useless
18:18<devilsadvocate>so the passengers do get off at B and are added to B's waiting cargo to C queue
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>no, they stay in the train
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20:03<orange>i notice the official content server seem largely incomplete, is there any way that it can be linked up to other content providers so downloading newGRFs become easier for multiplayer games :)
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21:12<Eddi|zuHause>no... it can't be... especially not within 1 minute
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 30 00:00:46 2010