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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-03-10

---Logopened Thu Mar 10 00:00:16 2011
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01:02<andythenorth>is there a magic sprite number to get 'use current terrain for this ground tile' ?
01:02<andythenorth>similar to the magic sprite number that does that for railway track
01:04<@planetmaker>not that I know. Unfortunately
01:11<@planetmaker>let me guess: cobble is the surface cover you get when you put many cobble stones adjacent to eachother in order to cover the street?
01:12<andythenorth>probably should be cobbled or cobbles
01:12<@planetmaker>No idea either way. So far I just new the word "cobble stone" ;-)
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01:13<andythenorth>the FIRS ones are actually stone setts
01:13<andythenorth>but I'm not too worried
01:14<@planetmaker>In restless dreams I walked alone. Narrow streets of cobble stone neath the halo of a street lamp,...
01:15<@planetmaker>hehe. Name a typical station tile - "mud" :-P
01:15<andythenorth>drawing small crossings is a bit pot luck with railtypes
01:15<andythenorth>I might not bother :P
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01:20<andythenorth>the DWE station set has a lot of cargo support I'd missed
01:24<@planetmaker>it's unarguably the best station set made in the last 24 months or so
01:24<@planetmaker>and one of the best anyway
01:25<andythenorth>well there's no point replicating his work ;)
01:25<@planetmaker>even though of course it still has a lot of potential for improvements
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02:36*andythenorth does hate bounding boxes
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02:37<andythenorth>Yexo: I need the sorter to draw S buffers above any train using the station
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02:38<andythenorth>can't figure out what I need to set to do that
02:38<andythenorth>your test station does it
02:38<andythenorth>mine don't :(
02:38<V453000>I know I may be getting annoying with the ISR but will chips have at least some transition tiles? :))
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02:39<andythenorth>they're not massively needed for concrete-concrete
02:39<andythenorth>it looks ok
02:40<V453000>maybe for the brown-ier ones like the brewery styled :)
02:40<andythenorth>if it bothers you, see if Dante123 will add them to DWE
02:40<andythenorth>that already has a class for transition tiles ;)
02:41<V453000>interesting point..
02:41<andythenorth>I'm making CHIPS for me mostly :)
02:41<andythenorth>I make simple stations
02:42<andythenorth>the concrete tile matches to airport
02:43<devilsadvocate>it would be nice to have station tiles that were not platform tiles
02:43<devilsadvocate>as in
02:44<devilsadvocate>tiles you could put in, but which the trains would just see as regular track
02:44<devilsadvocate>and not stop there
02:44<V453000>just make a new station
02:44<V453000>and set non stop orders
02:44<devilsadvocate>that would work
02:45<V453000>I use it often so it surely would :)
02:45<andythenorth>why do you need a station that's not a station?
02:45<V453000>candy :)
02:45<V453000>just making trains go through it
02:50<devilsadvocate>yeah. for example, the tiles for the marshalling yards
02:51<devilsadvocate>or random cranes and stuff
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03:11<andythenorth>is it useful when stations display cargo waiting?
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03:23<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:30<@planetmaker>moin Terkhen
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03:37<@planetmaker>hm, AIs can be really fun to watch :-)
03:37<@planetmaker>I didn't look at them for quite some time. They got a lot better it seems :-9
03:39<andythenorth>I wish they'd just play the game for me :
03:40<andythenorth>can we teach them to draw pixels? :o
03:41<@planetmaker>andythenorth: it seems they can play the game for you. NoCab is a very good guess to see a game being played it seems
03:41<@planetmaker>though I didn't start this game with FIRS
03:42<andythenorth>any opinion on cargo waiting graphics?
03:42<@planetmaker>"always want that"
03:43<@planetmaker>the only annoying thing is that it is hardly displayed, if you provide good service
03:43<@planetmaker>I'd rather like to have (also) a component which draws cargo depending on the amount of turn-over
03:52<andythenorth>I like cargo display
03:52<andythenorth>but it's only actually useful when it shows a problem
03:54<andythenorth>I mostly use it to spot a station with bad service
03:55<andythenorth>I guess I'm a minority in that
04:02<@Terkhen>I do that too: a good station is empty
04:07<@planetmaker>well, yes, they are. Sadly.
04:10<@planetmaker>Hm. I wonder whether a station can show the respective cargo, if it is transported there. No matter how much is waiting :-)
04:10<@planetmaker>I guess it's feasible.
04:11<andythenorth>it is
04:11<andythenorth>I think
04:11<andythenorth>there are some bizarre varaction 2s available for stations :P
04:11<@Terkhen>I would like to see something on the lines of "show last month cargo"; it does not make much sense realism-wise but it would be helpful
04:11<@planetmaker>Like a pile of containers for goods. A pile of steel bars when steel is transported. Logs for wood, vehicles for ENSP, etc.
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04:12<andythenorth>is that because it's nice, or because it's useful in managing your network?
04:12<@planetmaker>Terkhen: yeah, like that. And it would look nicer than empty platforms
04:12<andythenorth>I mostly use it as an 'out of condition' warning :)
04:12<@planetmaker>I like cargo display on stations. And it's a quick view what is going on
04:12<andythenorth>I think maybe I use it less with FIRS because the ISR support is incomplete
04:12<@planetmaker>the condition warning... well. I don't really need that, though it works also as that
04:13<@planetmaker>but a station could have both kind of tiles
04:15<andythenorth>how about a flashing red light when there is too much cargo :P
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04:19<@planetmaker>andythenorth: not useful. The amount of acceptable waiting cargo depends on the amount of turn over
04:19<andythenorth>I guess
04:20<andythenorth>it will vary by play style
04:20<andythenorth>for me it's about 500t
04:20<@planetmaker>there's no specific max. It depends on the industry output
04:20<@planetmaker>as cargo is delivered in chunks
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04:21<@planetmaker>a huge industry will push much cargo, so there's at least shortly a huge amount of cargo, even if trains are loading
04:21<@planetmaker>but that's still acceptable
04:21<@planetmaker>different for small industries
04:21<@planetmaker>where it piles up for months. Rating will still be bad
04:21<@planetmaker>it goes by %, not by absolute numbers
04:30<wargh>When I've been playing for about 50-60 years my game starts to studder (I think htats the right word), I think it's due to one of the AI's, is there any way to see how much computertime each AI takes up, or do I have tp try each AI individually for 50+ years? I don't think the problem is my computer, a C2D@3GHz
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04:38<@Terkhen>wargh: how much AIs are you using?
04:39<@planetmaker>many ;-)
04:40<wargh>Let me check
04:40<@planetmaker>I'm way too lazy to run 11 test games. So they have to compete among themselves
04:40<@planetmaker>oh. wargh is a name :-P
04:40<@planetmaker>sounds like "aargh".
04:41<@planetmaker>;-) No offence meant, though
04:41<@Terkhen>for tests a big number is fine, but for normal games it quickly becomes unplayable, even with a powerful processor
04:41<wargh>Seven.It takes more to offend me. :P
04:41<@planetmaker>yes. fast forward already is nearly useless on the testgame here
04:42<wargh>But three of them have no vehicles atm. If that matters att all.
04:42<@Terkhen>wargh: there are some AIs known to cause slowness (I don't know which ones, maybe someone else can help you with that) but 7 is quite a lot already
04:42<@planetmaker>Hm. Admiral AI once was better... It somehow never can make up its mind....
04:43<@Terkhen>if they have no vehicles they are probably looping through the map and calculating what they are going to do
04:43<wargh>Admiral seems to do good at the start but then it fades away
04:43<wargh>Ok, I set two of them to use trains only, they almost never get anywhere. Mainly becuase I play on maps with a lot of hills and water
04:44<wargh>I'm pretty sure one of them is caught in a loop or something as you say. I was hoping that there where maybe some way to see in game in a AI was doing something like that which could slow down the game.
04:45<wargh>But it takes about 50-60 years each game before it happens, and then it becomes unplayable
04:46<wargh>And I've lowered the amout of AI's each game so currently I use OTVI, Roadrunner, Admiral, Clueless and Nocab (this one is always the best one).
04:46<wargh>Admiral and cocab I use twice, but the second one set to only trains.
04:46<@Terkhen>you can access the AI debug window at the last button of the main toolbar
04:47<wargh>Yeah, I have looked at that, but I don't get much help. In one game I saw one of the AI's seeming to be stuck, but that was only that specific game
04:49<@planetmaker>NoCAB does an excellent job
04:49<wargh>Yeah I really like it, espceially that it uses ships also
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04:49<@planetmaker>yep. And sensibly at that
04:50<@planetmaker>Trans doesn't.
04:50<wargh>32 trains, 493 road vehicles, 114 ships and 21 aircrafts for nocab atm
04:50<@planetmaker>hehe. They cannot buy more than 10 ships here and not more than 20 planes ;-)
04:51<wargh>I have the standard settings =)
04:52<wargh>I've tested many AI's and these are the ones I found to work good enought, althought I'm thinking of removing Admiral
04:53<wargh>But right now I wish I could just figure out if it's one of the AI's that is making my game unplayable or if I just have a too slow computer.
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04:54<wargh>I have no problem with Warcraft 3 and a modified AI though, which controls 11 AI's with quite a lot of operations going on. But maybe TTD AI execues a lot more operations.
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04:56<@planetmaker>OpenTTD is not multi-threaded
04:56<@planetmaker>so your 2nd core won't help you there
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05:00<@Terkhen>hmm... I forgot about the hover bus
05:03<wargh>Ah, ok
05:03<wargh>Maybe I should try with 5 AI and see if it works better
05:07<wargh>Gonna leave it on a teastgame during the day while I'm away and see if it studders when I get home.
05:10<wargh>Bah, two weeks of sunshine and +5 degress, now snowstorm for two days. :/
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05:35<__ln___>hi w01
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05:41<Scuddles>Where is andythenorth? I must speak with him this very instant
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05:43<andythenorth>don't ask to ask...
05:46<dihedral>"this very instant"?? a) who do you think you are? b) where do you think you are? c) are you prepared to pay for "this very instant" support?
05:46<@peter1138>He's Scuddles.
05:46<@peter1138>That negates all the other questions.
05:47<@peter1138>(Negates the requirement, I mean)
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05:47<andythenorth>he clearly wasn't that bothered about the question :P
05:48<andythenorth>6 minutes so far
05:48<andythenorth>instant coffee is faster than that
05:48<andythenorth>peter1138: did you fix the map gen yet?
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05:50<Scuddles>It's hardly my fault :(
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05:51<Scuddles>Anyway, I enjoy your mayonnaise, ketchup, salt_and_vinegar but
05:51<Scuddles>Surely the buffers on the platform tiles have some sort of clipping problems with the pj1k locos and such?
05:53<andythenorth>yes that might happen
05:53<andythenorth>it's only r35, give it time :P
06:01<andythenorth>I'm trying to fix it at the moment :D
06:01<Scuddles>Are there plans for non-platform tiles of any sort?
06:02<Scuddles>I mean, like those with a bit of track and buffers
06:03<andythenorth>there are non-track tiles yes
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06:07<Scuddles>Hooray, hopefully it'll work out eventually
06:09<andythenorth>I hope so :)
06:09*andythenorth wishes 'newgame' wasn't in console history :P
06:09<andythenorth>one 'up' too many and it's trouble :P
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09:40<Sacro>has flyspray been abandoned?
09:40<@planetmaker>not at all
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09:40<@planetmaker>or you mean the programme itself?
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10:08<lugo->planetmaker, what do you say to this: ? (just in case you missed it) :)
10:10<@planetmaker>I did not read that yet
10:12<@planetmaker>In any case I agree with norbert that such large-scale changes would be nice, if they are discussed in advance
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10:16<@planetmaker>Hm... those two changes can be justified. But the change from Wegpunkt to Wegmarkierung is IMHO more grave and not nice
10:18<lugo->yep, like mb pointed out, it means something completly different..
10:18<@planetmaker>I fully agree
10:35<@planetmaker>lugo-, maybe you have time to revert the Wegmarkierung now?
10:35<@planetmaker>I don't really have time till mid next week and I might forget ;-)
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10:38<@planetmaker>though maybe it's better to first talk to him.
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10:58<supermop>good morning!
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13:25<dihedral>ah... you already have a de mirror
13:27<@Rubidium>does work?
13:28<dihedral>else i would have ptovided one :-P
13:28<@peter1138>404 Not Found
13:29<@peter1138>Then truebrain's mirror.txt is out of date :)
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13:45<CIA-7>OpenTTD: translators * r22229 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt slovak.txt):
13:45<CIA-7>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-7>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 3 changes by Tucalipe
13:45<CIA-7>OpenTTD: slovak - 44 changes by micropro_cz
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13:55<Zuu>planetmaker: Where to I find a binary of OpenGFX+ Airports nightly-r73?
13:55<Zuu>The link in your sig just give me a project page where there is no content in the files-tab.
13:55<Zuu>Also, manually browsing the bundles page, I fail to find it.
13:56<CIA-7>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22230 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt: -Fix: WT3 validation
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13:56<Zuu>Oh, now I found it. Just that the bundles list was not sorted a-z.
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14:21<frosch123> <- lakie: what did you mean with that? currently ottd does not pass the selected view to the extra info callback. you said it would change? :o
14:22<Lakie>Well, when I tested it moving the window worked
14:22<Lakie>TTDpatch redraws the window on view selection change,
14:23<Lakie>OpenTTD at the tme appeared to notice the change in text but not redraw until forced to
14:23<Lakie>Of course, its possible the current view isn't correct?
14:24<frosch123> <- ottd does redraw the window, but it does not pass the view to the callback for the purchase list. so the text cannot change
14:25<Lakie>Ah, that'd be the bug then
14:25<Lakie>I tested it on text changes over time, so I now the text can be changed, didn't try views directly though
14:26<frosch123>ok, "changes over time" makes sense :)
14:27<frosch123>you kind of confused us with reporting something works when moving the window which could not work at all :)
14:27<Lakie>Ah sorry,
14:27<Lakie>Didn't realize that you wouldn't pass current_view, seemed like an inportant bit of info
14:31<@Alberth> wallyweb discovered it to be not working too :)
14:32<CIA-7>OpenTTD: frosch * r22231 /trunk/src/object_gui.cpp: -Feature(ette): [NewGRF] Make var 0x48 available in CB 0x15C.
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14:32<Lakie>Fair enough, sorry
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17:41<@Terkhen>good night
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