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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-04-12

---Logopened Tue Apr 12 00:00:18 2011
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01:09<albaandy>how does openttd decide if an airport can accept goods or not? whats the criteria
01:10<albaandy>I have a station the accepts grain but there is grain waiting at the station? is this a bug or maybe theres not enough demand?
01:35<DabuYu>albaandy: the acceptance of goods happens when the airport's catchment area has a block which accepts goods
01:35<DabuYu>and the station which has grain and accepts grain: possibly there's a farm nearby which puts its grain there
01:36<DabuYu>theme park tycoon: after the original transport tycoon deluxe a followup was developed, but was instead developed into rollercoaster tycoon
01:37<DabuYu>so yes, probably a similar engine was used for that
01:40<albaandy>about the 'goods' block, i have an out of town airport that i would like to accept goods, how can I go about that?
01:41<albaandy>it looks like blocks that accept goods are only in the town centres
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01:58<Rubidium>albaandy: houses can provide goods in 1/8th (see the query tool). You need at least 8/8ths of goods acceptance from different houses within the catchment area before the cargo is accepted by the station
01:59<Rubidium>most industries provide 8/8th and thus one tile would be enough for acceptance, although there are cargos of some industries that require more coverage of the industry or even external "help" (e.g. the steel mill)
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02:12<@Terkhen>good morning
02:15<pikka>mood norging
02:16<pikka>from beautiful bracken ridge
02:17<pikka>at least there's a loo here
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02:34*ZirconiumX must have a look at the squirrel documentation to solve his question
02:35<ZirconiumX>does openttd use squirrel 2.x or 3.x?
02:35<Markk>Does OpenTTD use a squirrel? O.o
02:35<Markk>Poor animal.
02:36*ZirconiumX smacks Markk in the face
02:36<ZirconiumX>Squirrel Programming Language
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02:46<ZirconiumX>Should I 'fudge' TileID for X, Y
02:47<ZirconiumX>@Markk Note the 2.x - 'Improved CyberSquirrel'
02:47<ZirconiumX>but a squirrel none the less
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04:00<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause2, i like the mini countryman ;-)
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08:25<dihedral>seems to be a sole connection day ^^
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08:51<V453000>you are missing an "i" there :p
08:52<Markk>Yes, the new toilet from Apple Inc (TM).
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>this apple thing is spreading way too far...
08:53<flitz>next stop: Mars
08:58<__ln__>i See
09:01<guru3>iF you iNsist, but iT may be iNadvisable
09:01<guru3>they are iNcredibly expensive
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09:06<flitz>yoUnix are right, iWill stick to something cheaper then
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10:25<Eddi|zuHause>how many americans believe that Juri Gagarin was never actually in space?
10:26<SpComb>how many americans believe that Apollo never went to the moon?
10:26<@SmatZ>^^ :)
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: who cares about Apollo and the moon :p
10:27<SpComb>"Polls taken in various locations have shown that between 6% and 28% of the people surveyed believed that the manned landings were faked"
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: but it is the anniversary of Gagarin's flight now, not of some weird moon thing...
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10:41<@Belugas>SpComb, I believe that there are more people believing in creationism then that Appolo was a fake...
10:41<@Belugas>so... yeah for polls...
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10:59<Eddi|zuHause>is there a way to switch between companies without the company window being open?
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11:03<@planetmaker> !rcon move <clientID> <companyID>
11:03<@planetmaker>also available via admin console
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>it'd be useful if there was a "minmised" company window, like the finance window, which only shows the relevant buttons
11:09<@planetmaker>for what reason?
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>goto/build hq, join/password, buy/sell
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>i'm trying out a "schizophrenic" game ;)
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>like: splitting the map in 4 parts, each served by one company, with infrastructure sharing at the intersections
11:12<flitz>also interesting: each company cares for another category of transportation or cargo, like local bus service / commuter trains / far trains
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that involves frequent switching of companies, and the huge company windows are kinda in the way...
11:15<@planetmaker>I see :-) - how do you share infrastructure? By one of the patches floating around?
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes, chills patchpack
11:17<@planetmaker>well, I'd not mind a patch and patch setting for that window. Go ahead :-P
11:17<@planetmaker>(but I guess that qualifies as an unhelpful reply ;-) )
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>the map may make it quite interesting, there is a large sea in the middle, and around it are 4 more or less distinguished landscapes, one with cities in hilly landscape, one with cities in flat landscape, one without cities in hilly landscape, and one without cities in mountaneous landscape
11:19<@planetmaker>sounds like an interesting setup :-)
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11:44<LordAro>moin all
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11:49<LordAro>gah, still no Alberth... :)
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12:09<@Belugas>i'd say arount 4 more hours until Albert shows, LordAro
12:10<LordAro>heh, i may not be around by then :(
12:10<LordAro>how do you know?
12:10<@planetmaker>there's a thing called 'experience'
12:11<@planetmaker>and another called 'habits'
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12:11<LordAro>but what's so special about 21:00 (BST) on tuesdays?
12:13<@Belugas>and another called logs :D
12:13<@Belugas>it's not just tuesdays, it's pretty much everyday
12:14<@Belugas>i'd say that Albert, like many of us, have a day time job
12:14<@Belugas>and that he keeps some time for his own stuff to do.
12:16<@planetmaker>and it's the time at which sunset occurs at 9pm local time on 11 May
12:16<@Belugas>may i suggest april?
12:17<@planetmaker>at least on my place. In Alberth's place it'll be later in may
12:17<@planetmaker>Belugas, but then sunset is at about 8pm currently
12:17<@Belugas>ho... i see..
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12:18<@planetmaker>np :-)
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12:39*ZirconiumX sighs
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12:46<Yexo><ZirconiumX> [08:35:28] does openttd use squirrel 2.x or 3.x? <- in case you didn't found out yet, openttd uses squirrel 2.2.4
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12:47<Yexo>unfortunately squirrel 3 is syntax-incompatible with squirrel 2, so updating to squirrel 3 breaks several existing AIs
12:47<ZirconiumX>I'd assumed 2.x - as openttd has had squirrel for a while - longer than squirrel 3
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12:48<Yexo>way longer :)
12:48<Yexo>squirrel 3 stable was only released march 13 this year
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12:49<ZirconiumX>Is there a function which asks whether a value is infinity?
12:49<Yexo>what kind of value?
12:49<Yexo>you probably need to define your own value for that
12:50<Yexo>I still don't understand the advantages of D* over A* in the case of openttd
12:50*ZirconiumX is lazy, and was hoping there was some sort of AIMath.IsInfinity(val)
12:51<ZirconiumX>D* Lite is almost A*
12:51<ZirconiumX>but D* = Dynamic a*
12:51<Yexo>from what I've read D* is made for cases where parts of the world are unknown
12:51<Yexo>however in case of openttd the complete world is known at any time, but it can change
12:51<Yexo>there doesn't seem to be anything in D* that deals with that (there is nothing in A* for that either)
12:52<ZirconiumX>At least it isn't Djikstra's...
12:52<ZirconiumX>the AI is 'blind'
12:52<Yexo>you do realize that A* = Dijksta + heuristic?
12:52<ZirconiumX>I know
12:52<ZirconiumX>I read up on A*
12:52<Yexo>or the other way around, Dijkstra = A* with heuristic=0
12:53<ZirconiumX>so D* = (Djikstra + heuristic) + <something>
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12:54<ZirconiumX>It works Dynamically
12:54<Yexo>it's not that easy
12:54<ZirconiumX>notice the <something>
12:54<Yexo>yes, but without understanding what that <something> is, what is the point of implementing it?
12:55<ZirconiumX>oh - I remember
12:55<Yexo>how can you implement it without understanding it?
12:55<ZirconiumX>D* is an improvement on Lifelong Planning A*
12:56<ZirconiumX>17:51 Yexo how can you implement it without understanding it? <------ Because I'm stubborn
12:56<Yexo>D* was developed for unknown terrain
12:56<Yexo>in case of openttd the terrain is known, but it changes
12:56<Yexo>D* has (as far as I understand it) nothing do help for that case
12:57<ZirconiumX>As I said - I'm stubborn
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12:58<@planetmaker>Yexo, the wiki says "Assuming the goal coordinates do not change, all three search algorithms are more efficient than repeated A* searches"
12:58<@Alberth>Yexo: it may even cause desyncs I think, as it stores result for next searches
12:58<@planetmaker>(three = three different D* versions)
12:58<Yexo>Alberth: we're talking about AIs here, not YAPF
12:59<ZirconiumX>D* = basically A* - but with a few tweaks
12:59<ZirconiumX>take a car for instance
12:59<ZirconiumX>the car is good - it does the job
13:00<ZirconiumX>but if you tweak it - you make it better
13:00<ZirconiumX>thus with A*
13:01<Yexo>if you tweak it you could also make it worse
13:02<ZirconiumX>I'm not being rude - but would you admire a guy with *no* experience in coding trying to write a pathfinder
13:03<Yexo>no, I'd consider such a person too stubborn and in way over his head
13:03<Yexo>which doesn't mean I won't help if you have any questions
13:03<Yexo>just that I have little faith in a good result
13:04<@Alberth>it makes much more sense to first get some experience with simpler code before attempting something like a path finder.
13:04<ZirconiumX>Well - here's a question
13:04<@Alberth>the path finding problem will not go away
13:05<ZirconiumX>In A* - the constructor() - it lists all the variables changed
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13:05<ZirconiumX>Should I copy this?
13:06<Yexo>you can also set those variables after the constructor
13:06<Yexo>it's really of no relevance at all to the actual algorithm
13:07*ZirconiumX had a question - but thinks the answers obvious
13:07<ZirconiumX>Is there a 'Euclidian Distance' funtion
13:07<ZirconiumX>(obvious - really)
13:09<Yexo>using that however will make your code very slow, since sqrt() takes 100 opcodes
13:09<Yexo>also since payment in openttd is calculated using manhattan distances, you're better of using that
13:09<Yexo>if you just want to compare distances, you can leave out the sqrt
13:10<ZirconiumX>the guy uses a Euclidean(state, goal) * Euclidean(state, start)
13:10<Yexo>use DistanceManhattan instead
13:10<Yexo>not sure why he's using * instead of + though
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13:10<ZirconiumX>sorry - yes +
13:11<ZirconiumX>In order to get around the problem of the robot taking a path that is near a 45 degree angle to goal we break ties based on the metric euclidean(state, goal) + euclidean(state,start).
13:11<ZirconiumX><end quote>
13:11<Yexo>don't bother at all about such cases until you have some results
13:12<Yexo>in case of a tie pick a random one (=first or last, since that's probably easiest)
13:12<ZirconiumX>thus far main.nut
13:13<Yexo>your infinity value is too large
13:13<Yexo>it might work on 64bit builds, not sure about that
13:13<ZirconiumX>99999999 (eight 9's)
13:15<ZirconiumX>just remembered - path null - need to return null?
13:15<ZirconiumX>or keep going
13:16<ZirconiumX>I think former
13:17<ZirconiumX>I'll put in return null;
13:18<ZirconiumX>ah - guy returns false
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13:20<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly does this mean? /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/chipp/src/copy_paste.cpp:716:44: warning: name lookup of ‘tile’ changed
13:20<ZirconiumX>report to copypaste patch
13:20<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, old object files?
13:20<@planetmaker>and / or incorrect deps?
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it is followed by these lines:
13:21<Eddi|zuHause> /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/chipp/src/copy_paste.cpp:514:6: warning: matches this ‘tile’ under ISO standard rules
13:21<Eddi|zuHause> /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/chipp/src/copy_paste.cpp:549:2: warning: matches this ‘tile’ under old rules
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13:22<@planetmaker>uh oh. Sounds like re-defining a var / type as defined in some system or library headers
13:22<@planetmaker>probably missing somewhere a #define tile ottd_tile or alike
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>line 716 is if (success) SndPlayTileFx(SND_1F_SPLAT, tile);
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>line 514 is void CopyPaste::internal_PasteArea(TileIndex tile)
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>line 546 is TILE_LOOP(tile, size_x - 1, size_y - 1, TileXY(sx, sy)) {
13:24<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: what compiler are you using?
13:25<ZirconiumX>How do you add a parameter - I need to find out the start location and goal location
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>from this, it is likely that the warning is superfluous
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>gcc (SUSE Linux) 4.5.1 20101208 [gcc-4_5-branch revision 167585]
13:25<Yexo>most likely it's behaving correct now
13:25<Yexo>since you probably want the tile from line 514
13:25<Yexo>the way to fix it is to rename either of the two variables
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: yeah, that's what i think as well
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13:27<Eddi|zuHause>the "tile" in the loop should not be visible outside the loop
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>that's likely what the warning says: previously it was visible, now it is not anymore
13:28<Yexo>in very old code it was, that's why the warning is given
13:31<ZirconiumX>I'm puzzled
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13:32<ZirconiumX>How *do* you treat a local as a table...
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13:32<Yexo>varname['some_name'] ?
13:33<Yexo>exactly like how you would treat a global variable as a table
13:33<ZirconiumX> if (n.empty()) {
13:33<ZirconiumX> fprintf(stderr, "NO PATH TO GOAL\n");
13:33<ZirconiumX> return false; }
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13:34<ZirconiumX>n = Dstar::getSucc
13:34<ZirconiumX>(state, cur)
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13:35<Yexo>find out what datatype getSucc returns
13:35<ZirconiumX>the guy uses it as a void
13:35<Yexo><ZirconiumX> n = Dstar::getSucc <- that implies getSucc returns some value
13:36<Yexo>which code are you using as reference btw?
13:36<ZirconiumX>in C++
13:36<ZirconiumX>or C
13:38<ZirconiumX>the guy has yet to learn a proper code style - it's hopeless
13:38<Yexo>I really disagree with you there
13:38<Yexo>he has a very consistent codestyle
13:39<ZirconiumX>Well - *I'm* hopeless
13:39<ZirconiumX>I just can't find where 'n' is declared
13:39<@SmatZ>I think it's quite readable
13:39<ZirconiumX>I'm looking in Dstar.cpp
13:39<@SmatZ>there could be more comments though
13:39<Yexo>getSucc indeed doesn't directly return a value, but it modified the second argument it's given
13:40<Yexo>first thing it does is clearing it, so you might as well construct a new list and return it
13:41<@Alberth>list<state> n; ?
13:41<@Alberth>lin 593
13:41<ZirconiumX>As Far As *I* Can See, he use
13:42<ZirconiumX>s/he use/squirrel has
13:42<ZirconiumX>no list initializer
13:42<Yexo>local a = [];
13:43<ZirconiumX>So you're saying I should use
13:43<ZirconiumX>getSucc(u, local list = [])
13:43<ZirconiumX>or something along those lines
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13:44<Yexo>no, you should use something like: local n = getSucc(u) and let getSucc return a list of values instead of modifying it's second argument
13:44<Yexo>if you want to keep the code as it, use "local n = []; getSucc(u, n);"
13:44<Yexo>in that case be very careful that all operations you do actually modify n and not create a copy of it
13:45<ZirconiumX>18:21 ZirconiumX How do you add a parameter - I need to find out the start location and goal location
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r22319 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt unfinished/thai.txt vietnamese.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: thai - 1 changes by kenny
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 1 changes by nglekhoi
13:45<ZirconiumX>class Dstar(start, end) ?
13:46<Yexo>try reading the A* code to see how it's done there
13:47<ZirconiumX>So class Dstar
13:47<ZirconiumX>_start = nul;
13:47<ZirconiumX>_goal = null;
13:48*ZirconiumX is pretending to be ed
13:48<Yexo>that declares some variables int he class, yes
13:50<ZirconiumX>is current main.nut
13:51<Yexo>try running it through squirrel, that'll at least make you aware of any syntax errors
13:51<ZirconiumX>How many thousand errors have I made
13:51<ZirconiumX>Squirrel compiler?
13:52<Yexo>just import it an an existing openttd
13:52<Yexo>you'll get many compile errors
13:52*ZirconiumX will try WrightAI - probably soon WrongAI
13:53*ZirconiumX wishes there was a console syntax_ai/_lib AI/Lib
13:54-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:54<Yexo>just press the reload AI button?
13:55<Yexo>if you just want to check the syntax you could also download the squirrel binaries
13:55<ZirconiumX>I have Squirrel *3*
13:55<Yexo>so? download squirrel 2 too
13:55-!-Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:55<Yexo>a lot of the basic syntax however is the same, so you could also first try with squirrel 3
13:59-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
14:00<ZirconiumX>Squirrel hasn't helped...
14:00<ZirconiumX>sq : input line too long
14:00<ZirconiumX>Also - sq - probably hasn't heard of RegisterLibrary()
14:01<Yexo>true, but it should still be able to compile your code
14:01<ZirconiumX>Infinity's still too big
14:04<ZirconiumX>other than a few random complaints
14:04<@Alberth>I just like that sentence, given the semantics of 'infinity' :)
14:04<ZirconiumX>It's OK
14:04<ZirconiumX>I don't mind
14:06<ZirconiumX>Is squirrel ranting on
14:06<ZirconiumX>the main.nut
14:06<ZirconiumX>about 3 million lines going on about the index Dstar does not exist
14:07<ZirconiumX>is the gist of it
14:07<Yexo>why are you copy-pasting the code to the interactive console?
14:07-!-KouDy [] has joined #openttd
14:08<ZirconiumX>I can't do it line by line
14:08<ZirconiumX>as tit wouldn't know why I had refernced Dstar from
14:09<Yexo>ZirconiumX: try running sq with your filename as first argument
14:09<Yexo>don't start the interactive console at all
14:11<ZirconiumX>sq is compiled - not installed
14:11<Yexo>so what?
14:11-!-andythenorth [~andy@] has joined #openttd
14:11<@Alberth>evenink andy!
14:12<ZirconiumX>I can't launch squirrel with filename as first argument - as it won't accept the first argument
14:12<Yexo>what does it tell you?
14:13<ZirconiumX>the open command won't work either
14:15<Yexo>"won't work" is still not an error message
14:15<Yexo>what do you get when you try?
14:16<andythenorth>what to do what to do
14:16<andythenorth>cook dinner probably :P
14:16<ZirconiumX>interactive console line = (1) column = (1) : error expression expected
14:17-!-|Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
14:17<@Alberth>good plan andy, good bye :)
14:17<Yexo>ZirconiumX: too late, you've already started the squirrel console there
14:17<ZirconiumX>I *can't* launch squirrel - as Finder won't launch it when I drag the file onto it
14:17<Yexo>so open some kind of console and start it from there
14:18<Yexo><ZirconiumX> I *can't* launch squirrel - as Finder won't launch it when I drag the file onto it <- most likely it's started and closed immediately afterwards
14:19<ZirconiumX>Yexo: some kind of console != Yexo: don't start the interactive console at all
14:19<Yexo>"some kind of console" = something like bash
14:19<Yexo>or whatever you have on your system
14:20<ZirconiumX>I'm using terminal
14:20<Yexo>Yexo: don't start the interactive console at all <- don't start the _squirrel_ interactive console at all
14:20<Yexo>terminal is fine
14:20<andythenorth>Yexo: did you start anything on the FIRS petrol pump code? I might look at it if no...
14:20-!-LordAro [] has joined #openttd
14:21<Yexo>andythenorth: yes, for the industry placement callback, not for the industry tiles one
14:21<andythenorth>that's the route that's unsigned?
14:21<Yexo>yes, the non-working one
14:22<Yexo> <- that was my code
14:22<Yexo>it seemed to worked somewhat (for roads in the south)
14:23<Yexo>ZirconiumX: well, there you have your useful error message :)
14:23<andythenorth>I'll try the tile cb
14:23<andythenorth>looks like the route is same as I would try wrt action 2 chain
14:24<Yexo>you might be able to reuse most of the code by just substituting var 60 for var 62
14:24<Yexo>however feel free to throw it all away and code it yourself
14:27<andythenorth>I get registers, but not persistent storage in this cb?
14:27<andythenorth>I misunderstood - I thought there were no registers
14:27<Yexo>the industry is not yet created, so no persistent storage
14:27<andythenorth>that's ok
14:27<Yexo>register (=temporary storage, var 7D ?) are always available
14:27<Yexo>in every callback
14:27<andythenorth>I was struggling to do it cleanly without registers :)
14:27<andythenorth>it would have been quite...involved
14:28<Yexo>it's easy, one varaction2 for every variable check
14:28<Yexo>check class of one tile, if 2 return OK, otherwise go to next varaction2
14:28*ZirconiumX is confused
14:28<Yexo>might even be easier than the current code
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14:29<andythenorth>I'll look into it
14:30<ZirconiumX>ZirconiumX: /Users/ralphbrades/DStar_update/main.nut line = (152) column = (3) : error expression expected
14:30-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
14:31<ZirconiumX>if<expression>(res < 0) {
14:31<Yexo><ZirconiumX> if<expression>(res < 0) { <- is that your actual code?
14:31-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:31<ZirconiumX>if (res < 0) {
14:31<ZirconiumX>a space
14:32<Yexo>and the line before that?
14:32<ZirconiumX>my kingdom for a space
14:32<Yexo>local cur = //Gah - unclear variable <- is that the line before?
14:32<Yexo>if so, that's not valid code
14:32-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:32*ZirconiumX is so stupid - he doesn't even read his own code
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14:38<ZirconiumX>else if (getG(s_start) = infinity) { <---- line = (157) column = (25) : error can't assign expression
14:38<@Alberth>== ?
14:38<ZirconiumX>ty Alberth
14:39<@Alberth>standard C/C++ problem :)
14:39<ZirconiumX>not C
14:40<@SmatZ>badger badger badger badger badger badger
14:40<ZirconiumX>mushroom mushroom
14:40-!-supermop [] has quit [Quit: supermop]
14:41<@SmatZ>it seems there is fishbot here, but /invite won't make him come here :(
14:44<@SmatZ> :)
14:46-!-ar3kaw [] has quit [Quit: —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 3.2 (July '10)]
14:47<@Alberth>LordAro: I heard you were looking for me
14:47<Yexo>SmatZ: in that news message it says "when invited by channel owners"
14:47<LordAro>Alberth: :)
14:47<LordAro>yes, i was wondering about that function you pasted
14:48<LordAro>where should it go?
14:48<LordAro>and when called etc?
14:48<Yexo>besides that, I don't see a reason to invite that service here
14:48<@Alberth>did you figure out what it does?
14:49<@SmatZ>Yexo: yeah, I just tried if it can be invited ... anyway, it can be kicked whenever you want
14:49<@SmatZ>Alberth: it's just a bot that gives some funny replies, iirc
14:49<@SmatZ>more or less funny
14:49<@Alberth>sounds like a contradiction :)
14:50<@Alberth>but actually, I was asking LordAro that question :)
14:50<@SmatZ>the link I posted is a joke :)
14:50<Yexo>I just figured that out :p
14:50<Yexo>sorry, should have looked at the date better
14:51<LordAro>Alberth: yeah, mostly... :) (function name gives it away really :P )
14:51<@Alberth>LordAro: so, when do you want to have that information?
14:52<LordAro>probably something to do with the button
14:52<LordAro>being active or not
14:52<@Alberth>that would be one place :)
14:52-!-ZirconiumX [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
14:53<@Alberth>does that answer your two questions?
14:54<LordAro>pretty much... thanks for your *help* ;)
14:55<@Alberth>and thank you for answering your own questions :)
14:55<LordAro>anyway, i'm trying to figure out whats up with my working dir, when running make it complains of *.o files
14:55<LordAro>what's the best way to get rid of them?
14:56<LordAro>something to do with 'grep' and 'del'
14:56<Yexo>did you try deleting them?
14:56<@Alberth>there is another thing in there. Basically it tries to find a readme file, and reports whether it succeeded. You can use the file entry it found also for loading the text file
14:56<LordAro>thats what i was hoping
14:57<LordAro>Yexo: yes, but i don't know where they are, they're scattered through the directories
14:57<@Alberth>how does make complain?
14:58<LordAro>make[1]: Entering directory `/home/lordaro/coding/trunk.hg/objs/lang'
14:58<LordAro>[LANG] Compiling core/alloc_func.cpp
14:58<LordAro>[LANG] Compiling and Linking strgen
14:58<LordAro>getoptdata.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized
14:58<LordAro>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
14:58<LordAro>make[1]: *** [strgen] Error 1
14:58<LordAro>make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/lordaro/coding/trunk.hg/objs/lang'
14:58<LordAro>make: *** [all] Error 1
14:58<LordAro>(sorry about the spamming)
14:59<@SmatZ>LordAro: please use some pastebin service next time
14:59<@SmatZ>try make clean first
14:59<LordAro>that worked :) ty
15:00<LordAro>anyway, dinner
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15:21<+glx>always try make clean first :)
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16:25<supermop>why has the 'latest user screenshot' stayed the same for a couple years now?
16:27-!-douknoukem [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:27<Yexo>either because nobody has sent new screenshots or because they haven't been sorted out yet
16:29<supermop>where does one post a screen shot to be considered for that thing?
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16:31*andythenorth ponders this petrol pump placement business
16:32<Yexo>if the "has to be placed next to a road" code works, perhaps the "must be build in town" flag could be dropped?
16:32<andythenorth>that's the plan yes
16:32<supermop>gas stations on highways
16:32<andythenorth>the aim is to have gas stations in the middle of the desert :)
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>sorry, lack of desert :p
16:35*andythenorth has lack of working code so far :)
16:35<andythenorth>so we're even
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16:48<@Terkhen>I have a lack of sleep, fortunately it can be solved :)
16:48<@Terkhen>good night
16:51-!-Neon [] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
16:54<@planetmaker>sleep well, Terkhen
16:55<@planetmaker>supermop: I added late last year a couple of new screenshots to the screenshots collection...
16:56<@planetmaker>but... "the latest" obviously is something else than the screenshot collection
16:56<@planetmaker>it definitely is not "the latest" by many standards ;-)
16:58<SpComb>move it to the wiki?
16:58-!-Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!]
16:58<@planetmaker>'s supposed to be an eye-catcher for the main website. Would not be good, if everybody could edit that
17:01<SpComb>you could apply draconian style guidelines and mercilessly remove people's submissions
17:02<supermop>that would be a lot of work; i am assuming the old picture is still up because it is too much work to update
17:03-!-elmz_ [] has joined #openttd
17:04*andythenorth is having nfo failure
17:04<andythenorth>maybe it's too late in the day
17:04-!-elmz [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:05<@planetmaker>supermop: mostly it's "no-one cared enough" and I currently don't exactly know where I'd have to look in the repo. But... feasible
17:11*andythenorth finds reading spec is good solution to nfo troubles :P
17:12<supermop>maybe it should be removed then?
17:12-!-DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:12<asilv>what happened to this grf: ?
17:12<@planetmaker>supermop: why should it be removed?
17:12<supermop>i remember seing it as 'latest screen shot of 0.6.3' and thinking 'oh neat'
17:13<supermop>then i saw the same picture as 'latest screen shot of 0.7.5'
17:13<@planetmaker>asilv: I *think* it's using some USSR landscape grfs
17:13<supermop>now '...1.1.0'
17:13<andythenorth>Yexo: petrol pump might be working :)
17:14<Yexo>great :)
17:15-!-roboboy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:15<@planetmaker>asilv: but I don't quite know where it can be obtained. Maybe check out george's site
17:15<@planetmaker>or the Russian community forums
17:16<andythenorth>I'm getting 'too close to another industry' error on build for petrol pump when near another
17:16<andythenorth>I've forgotten how to over-ride that
17:18<andythenorth>my own code :P
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: what about using the new intro screen there?
17:18<supermop>i second that idea
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: and change the text to "user screenshots"
17:19<@planetmaker>that's an idea
17:20<@planetmaker>I just opened all files in ~/Documents/OpenTTD in search for a possible good screenshot. That was NOT a good idea, though
17:20<@planetmaker>Like 681 images and unpacking a few tars and opening a few sav and cfg and ... bah!
17:21*andythenorth builds a whole road full of petrol pumps
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: any sane image viewer could give you an overview of all images...
17:21-!-pius [] has joined #openttd
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>i use gwenview for that here
17:21<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: that's what mine does. But opening the other stuff was not too bright ;-)
17:22-!-pius is now known as Kiporshnikov
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>i just do "gwenview ~/.openttd" and it does all the rest.
17:23<andythenorth>Yexo: there are some interesting edge cases :)
17:23<andythenorth>like when a road is built on a steep slope
17:23<@planetmaker>I did cmd+a; cmd+o ;-)
17:23<@planetmaker>hi Kiporshnikov
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that indeed does not sound like a bright idea at all :p
17:25<asilv>planetmaker,: I found xUSSR landscape but it is not the same
17:26<asilv>although it looks pretty nice too
17:26<@planetmaker>asilv: then you have to continue to search. And please tell me which it is ;-)
17:26<@planetmaker>and where to find it ;-)
17:26*andythenorth needs that var for count of industries per town
17:26<andythenorth>when is it shipping? :P
17:26-!-Twerkhoven[L] [] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
17:27<asilv>xUSSR stuff is here if anyone is interested
17:29-!-Twerkhoven [] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
17:30*andythenorth ponders
17:30<andythenorth>should player be able to build a petrol station anywhere? That's the general rule for FIRS
17:30<andythenorth>or should it be limited to by a road?
17:31<Yexo>in this case the limit is not really a limit, a player could build road, fund patrol station, remove road
17:31<andythenorth>I think player can build anywhere in that case
17:31<@planetmaker>hm, there's the issue: screenshot.png is owned by root and not by the web application. Thus it's hard to change ;-)
17:36<Kiporshnikov>Are there any decent public programs/patches for more advanced administration of servers?
17:37<Kiporshnikov>I mean, I've seen chat commands like !resetme and all that around, are there any public versions of this?
17:43<andythenorth>very ethical :P
17:44<SpComb>Kiporshnikov: ap+ ?
17:47<Kiporshnikov>Does that make use of the builtin admin commands?
17:52<Ammler>well, if you mean the new admin interface
17:52<Kiporshnikov>I mean the TCP Admin interface
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>Kiporshnikov: dihedral is who you need to ask.
17:55<Kiporshnikov>Well it was really an open question, was directed at anyone who could answer it
17:55-!-Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:56<SpComb>does anything make use of the new admin interface?
17:56<andythenorth>is it bed time?
17:56<Ammler>there are 2-3 libs already
17:56<andythenorth>but I can't fix my location code
17:56<@planetmaker>Kiporshnikov: there's a client, but it does not yet do much:
17:56<Ammler>but no working end user app
17:56<@planetmaker>download the bundle from the hudson tab
17:57<SpComb>at one point in time, I even patched in my own control socket
17:57<SpComb>took screenshots and transmitted them back in-line
17:57<SpComb>but cba anymore these days :)
17:57<Ammler>ap+ can do that too
17:58<SpComb>send the PNG data via the same channel as the commands?
17:58<Ammler>na :-P
17:58<Ammler>it saves the screen to the disk
17:58<SpComb>and with the screenshot x, y, w, h specified in the command
17:58<Kiporshnikov>Wouldn't it be better to just compile your control lib directly into OpenTTD. ap+ already requires you to modify openttd.exe.
17:58*andythenorth ponders
17:59<Kiporshnikov>Apart from issues when updating, is there any particular reason why you wouldn't do this?
17:59<andythenorth>prospecting for secondary industries?
17:59<SpComb>Kiporshnikov: OpenTTD needs to offer an out-of-process control interface, and that's what the new admin inteface is, I presume
17:59<Ammler>x,y is possible, w, h is fix from start
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>Kiporshnikov: no, that's a bad idea
17:59<SpComb>just nobody actually uses it.. yet
17:59<Yexo><Kiporshnikov> Wouldn't it be better to just compile your control lib directly into OpenTTD. ap+ already requires you to modify openttd.exe. <- I think that's only true under windows
17:59<Yexo>which I doubt is the biggest part of all servers
17:59<Kiporshnikov>True, Yexo
17:59<Kiporshnikov>Why, zuHause?
18:00<SpComb>methinks Eddi|zuHause could just go as Eddi these days
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: patching the screenshot command to accept x,y,w,h should be trivial. look at the "zoomed-in screenshot" code, and replace the values there by parameters
18:00<SpComb>but files, boo
18:00-!-KouDy [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:01<Ammler>people don't like the screenshot feature, so not worth to invest time in that :-)
18:01<SpComb>makes for a cool PoC
18:02<andythenorth>do any of the industry special flags limit to 'one per town'?
18:02*andythenorth thinks not
18:05<@planetmaker>Kiporshnikov: ap+ does not require a modified openttd at all
18:05<@planetmaker>possibly, as yexo mentions, on windows to become a console app. Dunno, I've no experience there
18:05<Ammler>the screenshot feature patches building a bit
18:06<Ammler>(if you make dedi version)
18:06*andythenorth wonders why var 67 can check layout number of another industry, but not anything actually useful? :P
18:06<andythenorth>var 68 /s
18:07<Ammler>ap+ does not work on windows at all
18:07<Yexo>andythenorth: why would the layout not be useful?
18:07<andythenorth>what's the use case?
18:08<Yexo>You could create one industry with 5 layouts, and allow only 1 instance of every layout
18:08<andythenorth>bit weird
18:08<andythenorth>but true
18:08<Yexo>or you could let the accepted cargo types depend on the layout number and make sure there is enough distance between two industries with the same layout number
18:09*andythenorth retracts whine
18:10*andythenorth is also a bit puzzled about purpose of var 60
18:10<andythenorth>it can detect IDs in other grfs etc
18:10<Yexo>me too
18:10<andythenorth>which is interesting
18:10<andythenorth>but it's unsigned, making it only 50% effective :o
18:10<andythenorth>none of these solve my 'count of industry per town' problem :P
18:11<Yexo>it can only detect tiles that are part of the current industry
18:11<Yexo>and the offset is from the northernmost tile, so unsigned offset is not a limitation in this case
18:11*andythenorth doesn't understand how to define an industry using tiles from another grf
18:11<andythenorth>an old type - yes
18:12<Yexo>you can't do that directly, but old types can be overriden by newgrfs
18:12<andythenorth>makes sense
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18:16<andythenorth>Yexo: how about var 68 with a town ID in a register?
18:16<Yexo>how would you get the town id?
18:16<andythenorth>I thought there was a way to get it
18:16<andythenorth>I'm checking
18:17<andythenorth>var 41 on cities
18:17<andythenorth>town index
18:17<Yexo>so what you actually want is var 68 limited to the same town as the current industry?
18:17<andythenorth>effectively yes
18:17<Yexo>as that's the only town id you can get anyway
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>you can get a random town id ;)
18:17<SpComb>Ammler: mind, what "screenshot feature"?
18:18<andythenorth>although you could use arbitrary town ids
18:18<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: but you can't be sure you have a valid town id
18:18<andythenorth>fail in that case?
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: yeah, the game must have safeguards for that anyway...
18:18<Yexo>sure, but that makes the case "pick some random value" useless
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18:19<Eddi|zuHause>i was more or less joking anyway ;)
18:20<andythenorth>that implies it might as well be a new var?
18:20<Yexo>yes, var 69 :)
18:20<Ammler>SpComb: <-- bottom
18:20<@planetmaker>SpComb: in the coop irc channel you can request a screenshot ^
18:20<Yexo>works like var 68, only limited to industries that belong to the same town
18:20<@planetmaker>latest place of activity
18:20<andythenorth>all these similar vars smells a bit wrong :)
18:20<SpComb>Brianetta's webcam feature?
18:20<andythenorth>seems like it should be a param or register
18:21<Yexo>hmm, use bit 8 from register 101
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: something similar, yes.
18:21<Yexo>if 1, limit to industries of the same town
18:21<Yexo>perfectly backwards compatible, as 0 means current behavior
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>he-who-has-a-highlight :p
18:21<andythenorth>Yexo: sounds right
18:21<SpComb>there's a fair few images in that dir
18:21<andythenorth>slightly harder to use, but more correct :)
18:22*SpComb had a real-time-updtaing version of his giant screenshot browser aaages ago
18:22<andythenorth>SpComb: was it called 'VNC' ? :P
18:22<SpComb>took the png tiles from the running openttd process instead of the giant screenshot .png
18:22<Ammler>SpComb: dunno that feature, we just run "screenshot" from time to time or on request
18:23<SpComb>and it worked quite fine, just slow
18:23<SpComb>it updated every time you scrolled
18:23<andythenorth>sounds clever
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>afaik Brianetta's server just took random locations, didn't keep track of activity
18:23*planetmaker remembers that version
18:23<@planetmaker>(which spcomb mentioned)
18:23<@planetmaker>but that's... huge in comparison
18:24<Ammler>yeah, at time where Truebrain worked on webdune :-)
18:24<SpComb>fun PoC, but no more
18:25<TrueBrain>hmmm ... webdune .... hmmm ....
18:25<Brianetta>There was no way for a Tcl script wrapper to be aware of activity
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18:27<Ammler>Brianetta: we patch openttd slightly
18:29<Ammler>well, relatively slightly:
18:31<@peter1138>Ammler, why use a table and a for() loop instead of a switch() ?
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18:32<Ammler>those are SmatzyPatchies :-)
18:34<@peter1138>You can skip the loop, and the nolog variable, and make the code shorter... by using a switch() block.
18:35<SpComb>having it inline in the function is ugly
18:35<Ammler>I guess, because it doesn't have any chance for trunk, he never cared about making a proper patch
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18:35<Ammler>no idea really
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18:42<@planetmaker>clock shows "ghost hour". Time for bed & good night to all
18:44<Ammler>the ghosts are almost gone again
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---Logclosed Wed Apr 13 00:00:36 2011