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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-03

---Logopened Sat Dec 03 00:00:16 2011
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02:54<@Alberth>moin Wolf01
02:57<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:33<@planetmaker>hm, with about 3 dozen instances of gimp launched simultaneously I can manage to render my computer virtually unresponsive :-P
04:39<@Alberth>make some tea :)
04:41<@planetmaker>yeah, I did exactly that :-)
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05:39*__ln__ in ICE34, københavn
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05:52<andythenorth>do any of you contribute to wikipedia?
05:52<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth
05:52<andythenorth>and if not, what prevents you?
05:53<@Terkhen>no, a mixture of laziness and not having anything important to add
05:53<@planetmaker>andythenorth: I once started. But I got frustrated very quickly as everything was undone by admins again
05:53<andythenorth>I met a wiki-media employee last night and was arguing about why wikipedia doesn't get contributions
05:53<@planetmaker>Thus I stopped
05:54<andythenorth>apparently the two things they want are (1) contributors (2) money
05:54<andythenorth>I said that everyone I knew who contributed had their stuff removed, so they don't contribute again
05:54<@planetmaker>i.e. new articles I wrote were trashed with the "not relevant" cireterion
05:56<andythenorth>anyone else got wikipedia experiences?
05:56<Rubidium>well, OpenTTD got almost removed because it was not notable
05:56<@Terkhen>heh, really? :P
05:56<Rubidium>so I scholar-googled and added some "sources"
05:58<Rubidium>what is interesting is that the most 'notable' source, is IMO the least reliable source
05:58<Rubidium>(OpenTTD being 8th most active to receive patches)
05:58<@Terkhen>my only edits to wikipedia are updating the spanish page of OpenTTD whenever we get a new major version and changing the description
05:59<Rubidium>what annoys me most about wikipedia is that the OpenTTD website (or its source code) is not seen as a reliable source for events that happened
06:00<@Terkhen>what else can you use?
06:00<Rubidium>well, you must find some 'third party' that has written something and use that as 'source'
06:00<Rubidium>which is totally stupid
06:01<@planetmaker>quite so
06:01<Rubidium>e.g. is right, but is not
06:01<@Terkhen>but that third party article is either based on whatever we have or wrong :P
06:01<@planetmaker>which is part of the frustrating experience
06:03<@Terkhen>heh, that link illustrates your point completely
06:06<Rubidium>shall we claim that Microprose released the source?
06:07<Rubidium>which is more reliable (wikipedia speaking) than a post of Ludde saying what he did
06:07<Rubidium>but I digress and should've been on a shopping run
06:15<andythenorth>the rules for sources seem very stupid
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06:19<Wolf01>I updated an old nightly I had on a thumb drive, but also after downloading all the updated open graphics/sounds/music it still complain I miss sprites and in fact I do, what's the problem?
06:24<MNIM>I wish they released the UT2004 source.
06:24<MNIM>now that would be amusing
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06:29<LordAro>good morning
06:29<LordAro>(for me :P )
06:31<Rubidium>Wolf01: from where did you download the updated files? Also, what base graphics set did you use, and if you used the original one, did you update the files in the 'data' directory as well?
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06:32<Wolf01>I use original windows, I dlded the updated ones with the download content menu
06:33<Wolf01>maybe I have old data files all around
06:34<Rubidium>in the openttd nightly directory, are there both a "data" and a "baseset" directory? If so, remove the "data" directory
06:37<Wolf01>seem to work now
06:53<TrueBrain>Why does fucking Windows not show when it is still gathering information about a direectory when you hit Properties on a map :(
06:53<TrueBrain>IT MAKES NO SENSE :(
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07:16<@Alberth>yeah, IT makes little sense indeed.
07:16<@Alberth>(at times) :)
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07:27<TrueBrain>fact of life about Windows: how ever big your partition is, within a year, it will be too small
07:27<MNIM>you mean the windows partition?
07:28<TrueBrain>no, the linux partition
07:28<MNIM>my linux partition is okay >.>
07:28<TrueBrain>silly questions silly answers ;)
07:29<MNIM>well, partitions generally become too small within a year regardless of OS :P
07:29<TrueBrain>well, I install Windows, and it consumes 12GB
07:29<TrueBrain>within a year it consumes 60GB
07:29<TrueBrain>all I did was install updates
07:29<TrueBrain>I never had that issue with Linux or Mac
07:29<MNIM>unless of course you tend to buy, like me, a HD that is ten times too large at the time
07:30<TrueBrain>so no, it doesn't seem to be regardless of OS :)
07:30<MNIM>my windows partition only uses 25 gb of the 40 I assigned to it 0-0
07:31<MNIM>then again, I rarely update windows, rarely allow it to last more than half a year and all programs are installed on another partition.
07:31<@Alberth>Mine uses 0GB :) on the other hand, I had a Linux system with 1.5GB in 1994 :p
07:32<TrueBrain>Windows SBS has a start requirement of 40GB. Last year, they changed that to 60GB ..
07:32<TrueBrain>says enough I am afraid :P
07:32<@Alberth>indeed :)
07:32<MNIM>huh. apparently / has only 15 Gb free
07:33<TrueBrain>what annoys me most, is that you cannot see all the space used ...
07:33<TrueBrain>it is impossible to locate 15GB for me on this drive ... it is 'hidden'
07:33<MNIM>which is odd, considering that partition is 50gb :S
07:33<MNIM>truebrain: windows snapshot
07:33<MNIM>notorious disk eater
07:34<TrueBrain>rootfs 18G 15G 2.8G 85% / <- hihi :D
07:34<MNIM>then again, unlike in windows, I don't install programs on a separate partition in linux
07:34<TrueBrain>I just mount partitions when a map gets too big :P
07:35<@Terkhen>both windows and windows programs create an unbelievable amount of garbage
07:35<TrueBrain>problem with windows: once a dll is installed, it will almost certainally remain instaleld
07:35<TrueBrain>and with this winsxs shit
07:35<TrueBrain>that only increased in size
07:35<TrueBrain>the more versions of a dll you install, the more it collects dust there
07:35<@Terkhen>I disable system restore and every 3 or 4 months I format the whole thing with a clonezilla image
07:35<TrueBrain>and no sane way to validate if one is still used
07:36<@Terkhen>less than optimal :)
07:36<MNIM>ut2004 does eat more than 8GB of space on /
07:36<TrueBrain>these are production servers for customers ... they will not like my formatting it :D
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08:38<Eddi|zuHause>"Schwäbisch Gmünd opens 'Bud Bad'" (public bath named after Bud Spencer)
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08:49<andythenorth>so maybe BANDIT could be as few as 10 trucks (or 10 types, with models evolving over time)
08:49<andythenorth>but to allow trailers, I have to duplicate perhaps 6 of them
08:50<@planetmaker>would be ok, not?
08:52<andythenorth>it's not that many
08:52*andythenorth is on a quest for best balance of variety / simplicity in the buy menu
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>i need for nml to generate a v8 grf, to test the new articulation callback
08:54<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: now we're past 0.2.0 of NML we can switch to generally creating grf v8.
08:54<@planetmaker>Patches welcome ;-)
08:54<andythenorth>anybody want to play multiplayer, HEQS, starting 1870-ish?
08:54*andythenorth needs to test trams
08:55<@planetmaker>hm... if you have a few days patience, andythenorth, that might make a good RV-only game for #openttdcoop
08:55<andythenorth>what is that please?
08:57<@planetmaker>the thing your young son or daughter probably has in over-abundance when it comes to making loud noises at night ;-)
08:57<andythenorth>I don't think it runs in my family :P
08:57<andythenorth>my wife has no patience either
08:57<andythenorth>our house is...shouty
08:57<andythenorth>maybe a game will inspire me to work on FIRS
08:58<Eddi|zuHause> <-- i'd like to try this out, but without the new articulation callback, i can't fit enough dummy vehicles in
08:59<andythenorth>var 1 / var 2?
08:59<andythenorth>new cb?
08:59<andythenorth>forum linky?
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>variant 1 or variant 2
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09:05<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: not sure if that's a devzone bug, but my latest commit doesn't appear in activity
09:08<LordAro>woo, christmas-y forums
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>i _really_ hate this style
09:09<LordAro>it's not so bad..
09:14<LordAro>how to find palette in gimp... ?
09:15<LordAro>or, how to change greyscale image to rgb?
09:16<@planetmaker>LordAro: image -> mode
09:16<LordAro>thanks :D
09:20*andythenorth has forums in vanilla skin
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09:27<Eddi|zuHause>"in Valladolid a road was named after an internet vote 'calle de ma falta un tornillo' ('i-am-lacking-a-screw-road'). it leads to a well-known furniture store."
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09:30<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: I guess the DevZone orders it by date, and your last commit date is in the past.
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: but it doesn't appear there either
09:35*andythenorth has *never* used the Iron Works in FIRS
09:35<andythenorth>is it pointless?
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>turn it into a factory
09:37<Hirundo>iron works is the early wood+iron=metal industry?
09:39<@Terkhen>Eddi|zuHause: the 2nd option in votes was even more stupid IIRC
09:39<@planetmaker>Hirundo: iirc, yes
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09:58<Hirundo>it seems sensible to me to keep that one in, though I've not played that early games with FIRS
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the problem with it is that it stays around after steel mills are available
10:02<CIA-6>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23400 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix (r23393, r23382): Text query window was hidden in numerous cases
10:03<@planetmaker>now, that was SLOW
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10:03<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: better than the one from rubidium yesterday :)
10:04<@Alberth>it appreciated the nice round number for a while :)
10:04<@planetmaker>how long there, Eddi|zuHause :-)
10:04<@planetmaker>Alberth: I'd say at least 10 minutes or so :-)
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: not entirely sure what happened, but it showed a completely empty message
10:06<@planetmaker>oh, that :-)
10:06<@planetmaker>wrong spelling :-P
10:07<@planetmaker>and pronounciation :-P
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>it's spelled pronunciation :)
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10:23<Eddi|zuHause>PS: what exactly are "default vales"? :)
10:25<@planetmaker>amputated valves
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10:35<@Terkhen>I know that I already asked this, but... is there any NewGRF with houses that produce something besides mail and passengers'
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10:38<@planetmaker>ECS houses and tourists maybe?
10:38<+michi_cc>There are definitely some houses that accept others cargoes, but I'm not sure if anyone coded some houses that produce other cargoes.
10:39<@Terkhen>hmm... I have ECS town vector and TTRS, let me check for ECS houses
10:41<@Terkhen> <--- doesn't look like it does
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>"ECS houses" is just the special houses from TTRS that accept other stuff (fuel station, etc.)
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>TTRS produces tourists if ECS is loaded
10:44*Terkhen wonders if that's true for TTRS nightly r36 too
10:46<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: the Iron Works is a flawed design
10:46<andythenorth>it *has* to stay around by design
10:46<@Terkhen>it doesn't help that those tourist things are really hard to build
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>the "early industries" should probably get the same conversion-efficiency as the later, but a production cap
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: the regular tourist attraction (tower) only needs a slope
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: and IIRC some TTRS houses also accept tourists (statue, hotel)
10:48<@Terkhen>thanks, I managed to build the easy one :)
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>but i haven't played with it in ages
10:48<@Terkhen>yes, the houses produce tourists :)
10:49<@Terkhen>let's see if I can get a tourist subsidy or not
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>i stopped using TTRS for two reasons: a) the houses are green, and b) they produce too many passengers
10:50<@Terkhen>yay, success
10:50<@planetmaker>what's wrong with green houses, Eddi|zuHause?
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: looks like a toyland town...
10:51<@planetmaker>you've never seen Scandinavia for real, eh?
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>swedish houses is only slightly better in both aspects
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10:57<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: production cap - max output, or stop accepting input?
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: max output might be less limiting
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: since i know your dislike of PBI-style acception limits
10:58<andythenorth>I like them in PBI
10:58<andythenorth>I don't like handling the moaning from players
10:59<andythenorth>coop players don't like them destroying routes :P
10:59<andythenorth>same reason we can't shut industries :|
11:00<@planetmaker>Maybe we should introduce two economies ;-)
11:00<@planetmaker>or more parameters :-P
11:02<andythenorth>we should devise a way to delegate closures to GS
11:02<andythenorth>for both 'no production' and 'historical changes'
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>but that needs a sane GS<->NewGRF communication interface
11:05<andythenorth>or just make FIRS respect cb 29, 35
11:05<andythenorth>and give the GS control over those
11:05<andythenorth>it's proven that newgrf can't handle industry closure
11:05<andythenorth>so it should stop trying
11:06<andythenorth>I should just remove that code from FIRS
11:06<@Terkhen>we should let both control industries, and obey one or the other randomly each time
11:07<@Terkhen>that would be fun
11:07<andythenorth>for some definition of fun :P
11:07<andythenorth>FIRS has tractors on farms in 1869
11:07<andythenorth>which idiot did that? :o
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11:08<@Terkhen>I haven't tested but I'm quite sure that even more things look broken if you start in 1011
11:09<@Terkhen>you shouldn't bother that much with stuff like that :P
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>tractors were probably not common before 1950-ish
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>so the graphics could maybe "update" from horses to tractors
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>with some randomisation between 1940 and 1960
11:12<andythenorth>that would require me to learn how the templates work :P
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11:13<Eddi|zuHause>didn't you (try to) do the same with the sand pit?
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>i need an option for "mv": "leave symlink to new location"
11:16<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: doesn't cp do that?
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11:17<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: no, only the other way round
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>leave a symlink at the new location to the existing file
11:18<@Alberth>ah, mv old new; cp --whatever-options new old ?
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: that requires remembering what files were copied
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11:19<Eddi|zuHause>especially if files were copied only partially, etc.
11:20<@Alberth>partial copies?? that does not sound very sane :p
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11:21<Eddi|zuHause>i mean only half the files were copied, due to errors
11:22<@Alberth>I'd do 'rm -r new' then :p
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: but at that point the old files were already deleted
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>the ones that were successfully moved
11:23<@Alberth>oh joy :p
11:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I haven't done any date-specific graphics for FIRS yet
11:24<andythenorth>it's far from even being ready to start doing that :|
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: why? it needs only a handful of varaction2s :)
11:25<andythenorth>bigger tasks that should be done first ;)
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>plus the graphics, of course :)
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>switch(date) { <1940: old gfx; 1940-1960: random switch; >1960: new gfx; }
11:27<andythenorth>I'll draw if you code ;)
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>i'd end up completely rewriting everything :p
11:28<Pinkbeast>I would love it if the anachronistic cranes and bulldozers vanished and were replaced with first horse traction and then things like steam shovels. :-)
11:28<andythenorth>they could be
11:29<andythenorth>I have steam shovel graphics
11:29<Pinkbeast>And narrow-gauge industrials with crane tanks. I love crane tanks, and there's about two still running.
11:31<Pinkbeast>Obviously I can't speak for anyone else but you'd make one player happy. :-)
11:31<andythenorth>Pinkbeast: look in the list here....
11:31<Pinkbeast>Aha, you're ahead of me already.
11:32<Pinkbeast>But I was thinking of having them as scenery, although it would be odd to have a buildable vehicle also hanging about at industries, I suppose?
11:32<andythenorth>not really
11:32<andythenorth>there are HEQS vehicles used as eye candy in lots of sets
11:33*andythenorth is baffled by timetables
11:33<andythenorth>how can my vehicle 'travel for 10 days' ?
11:33<andythenorth>I tried it, and the game doesn't make the vehicle travel slower or faster to cover the distance in 10 days
11:33<andythenorth>is that a bug?
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>use the 24h-timetable patch :)
11:33<Pinkbeast>It will wait for longer at the next station if it is running fast
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>no, the vehicle travels always max speed, it just waits longer at the station
11:34<Pinkbeast>... which tends to exacerbate platform congestion, yes
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>it'd be nice to tell vehicles "travel at 80% speed, unless vehicle is late"
11:34<Pinkbeast>Particularly with automatic timetable management, where vehicle A waits because it is early so vehicle B can't get in so vehicle B increases the estimate of the time taken to make the journey so vehicle C waits so...
11:35<andythenorth>locks are stupid
11:35<Pinkbeast>... and especially with RV operations where vehicles don't manage multiple-tile stations well
11:35<andythenorth>locks are too big, and disproportionately expensive
11:36<Pinkbeast>Canals themselves are entirely made out of money
11:36<andythenorth>I don't suppose anyone will be happy if I make FISH fix base costs
11:36<andythenorth>I'll have to make a stupid standalone grf for this
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>i'd just divide canal base costs by 4 or 8 or so
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>canals are way too expensive
11:36<andythenorth>a lock is 4x the price of a 6 tile, 70mph bridge
11:36<Pinkbeast>Especially since if you _are_ going to use them it'll likely be in 1820 or so when the game's just started
11:37<andythenorth>it's just a fricking hole in the mud, with water in it
11:37<@Alberth>but it costs an insane amount of manual labour to make the hole :)
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: but in 1820, manual labour is cheap
11:37<andythenorth>Alberth: built any bridges recently? :P
11:37<Pinkbeast>In reality canals are much more expensive than railways but in the game if we're going to have canals they should be relatively viable
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: they build one of the longest bridges on mainland europe here.
11:38<Pinkbeast>In the Rennford game I did build one canal in the days of horse traction and I think it was eventually profitable, but I could only do it once the company was quite large.
11:38<andythenorth>Pinkbeast: no no, it's a train game. The other transport types *should* be punished
11:38<andythenorth>else how will anyone ever see the superiority of trains
11:39<Pinkbeast>andy> yabbut RV pathing does that job without any effort on your part. :-/
11:40<Pinkbeast>timetables> I would love to see a way to say "if you're just waiting at a station because of the timetable and another vehicle wants to get in, start moving" but recognising that the latter part of that has happened looks tricky
11:41<b_jonas>just build large enough stations
11:41<Pinkbeast>jonas> The easiest thing in the world at a city centre terminus. :-)
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11:42<Pinkbeast>Also that would work better if, as previously mentioned, a long line of RV approaching a multi-tile station didn't love to all rush up to the same tile of it and see what happens
11:43<Pinkbeast>Steam Railway #395 has a nice picture of a preserved crane tank actually using the crane :-)
11:44<Eddi|zuHause> <-- a bridge with length 6,5km and a branch with length 2km, total 8,5km bridge
11:46<andythenorth>not possible. no junctions on bridges
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12:06<__ln__>speaking of leipzig, i should arrive there in two hours
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>that's about the time it would take me to get there
12:12<frosch123>so you have 4 hours left until ln arrives at your place :p
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>if he could find it :p
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ found that kinda tricky last time :p
12:18<Pinkbeast>I didn't realise some of you were in that neck of the woods (we go to the WGT in Leipzig)
12:20*andythenorth wonders how to do a base costs grf in nml :P
12:21<andythenorth>probably by following the documentation I guess
12:21<andythenorth>is it really wrong for FISH to adjust canal construction costs?
12:21<frosch123>there are some basecosts grfs on the devzone, maybe some uses nml?
12:21<frosch123>andythenorth: add a switch :p
12:22<frosch123>it should be possible to disable such things to solve conflicts
12:23<andythenorth>I'll add it to FISH trunk
12:23<andythenorth>when someone complains, I'll add a disable parameter :P
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12:26<andythenorth>making canals cheaper also makes it ridiculously cheap to bulldoze sea :P
12:27<andythenorth>I misread the spec
12:27<andythenorth>that happens too often :P
12:28<@planetmaker>andythenorth: with the old base costs that might have been. With the new: no. Especially not with newgrf v8 :-P
12:29<@planetmaker>andythenorth: and the base cost newgrfs are afaik in NML. But I might err
12:29<@planetmaker>but you don't use FISH to change canal building costs, do you?
12:29<andythenorth>I am for my own game right now
12:30<@planetmaker>making a default change to canal building costs IMHO is wrong
12:30<frosch123>planetmaker: newgrf authors always mess things up :p
12:30<@planetmaker>that's what base cost newgrfs are for
12:30<@planetmaker>make a sensible preset which covers also other costs to what you consider a useful cost balance and make that a separate newgrf
12:30<@planetmaker>much better
12:31<@planetmaker>much more versatile
12:31<andythenorth>one more thing to forget to add to the newgrf list :P
12:31<andythenorth>but I can add anything I want in game, so meh
12:31<@planetmaker>and if you create yourself a newgrf preset just with the base cost newgrf which changes costs like you need, you can always re-use it
12:32<@planetmaker>without programming anything
12:32<@planetmaker>it has already a nice, readible gui
12:33<andythenorth>no coding
12:33<andythenorth>we need drop down menus for the newgrf gui though :P
12:35<@planetmaker>just make sure you save that as preset somehow... ;-)
12:35<@planetmaker>if you want it back in another game
12:35<@planetmaker>might save you many clicks ;-)
12:35<andythenorth>why not just ship it by default in every game?
12:35<frosch123>what... nested classes cannot have static declarations... oh java
12:36<@planetmaker>that's what presets are for, andythenorth ;-)
12:36<@planetmaker>or how I use them: some stations + cost newgrf pre-configured
12:36<@planetmaker>and then the rest is individualized to the map
12:36<@Alberth>frosch123: does making it a static class work?
12:38<andythenorth>@calc 5000/120
12:38<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 41.6666666667
12:38<frosch123>andythenorth: it's no static class :p
12:38<frosch123>i just moved it to the outside class
12:38<frosch123>its non-public anyway
12:38<andythenorth>much as I like the base mod grf (very nice), I'm not convinced there's any justification for canals being 41x more expensive than rail
12:39<@Terkhen>historical reasons probably
12:39<@Terkhen>it's unplayable, but written in stone :P
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12:39<andythenorth>I don't like the idea that to fix that, every player has to (a) know about base mod grf (b) remember to add it *before* starting their game (c) save presets or spend a lot of time clicking
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>suggestion: remove "better roads" algorithm, replace with "town road spacing" setting
12:40<andythenorth>the cost of water construction really adds to the current pointlessness of rivers
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>suggestion-addendum: apply change to grid as well
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>so: town-road-algorithm: {natural, grid}, town-road-spacing: {1-4}
12:41<andythenorth>suggestion-addendum-addendum: have towns leave some tiles unused
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>that'd be the "natural" algorithm with spacing 3
12:42<Pinkbeast>andy> Could FISH complain gently if some base costs mod isn't applied, in the way av8 complains now if you have the old av8-extras in play?
12:42<@Alberth>nice winter-ish theme :)
12:42<andythenorth>Pinkbeast: that's kind of annoying rather then helpful, even if well intentioned
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: apparently my scenario editor was set to generate very high land :)
12:43*andythenorth is not convinced world ends if FISH adjusts base costs
12:43<Pinkbeast>annoying> Well, better annoying than unplayable, and is it too annoying if there's a parameter to say "yes, shut up about base costs now"
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you mean you want to set the canal base cost in FISH?
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: possibly add a parameter
12:44<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I just set it as my desktop background :)
12:45<@planetmaker>that's a sparse town, Eddi|zuHause?
12:45<Pinkbeast>FISH adjusts base costs> conceptually dreadful but I'm inclined to agree it's actually the right thing since otherwise a novice player has no hope of using canals
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: a sparser-than-current town
12:46<@planetmaker>andythenorth: adjusting single base costs unrelated exactly to the thing provided in a newgrf IMHO is quite wrong conceptually
12:46<@planetmaker>That's what cost newgrfs are for. Or it gets really messy
12:46<andythenorth>I know
12:46<@planetmaker>then why do it?
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: cost newgrfs are unweildy...
12:46<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: but it's easy to create a "sane costs newgrf"
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>i have to set all 20 parameters to some random value, just because i want to change one cost
12:46<andythenorth>planetmaker: I've been playing the game for (?) years. This is the first time I tried the cost newgrf
12:46<@planetmaker>just one newgrf
12:47<andythenorth>if the water construction costs weren't so utterly wrong I'd agree
12:47<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: sounds like an interface problem to me
12:47<@planetmaker>there exist a few cost preset newgrfs which each have some focus or another
12:47<andythenorth>but if the game won't fix bugs, I need to
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but it's just as easy to have a parameter at FISH: "lower canal cost: {1, 1/2, 1/4}"
12:47<andythenorth>I shouldn't have to tell every FISH user 'now also download this base cost mod newgrf'
12:47<andythenorth>to fix an ottd bug
12:48<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: and just as messy then when you really want to adjust costs generally and have to set a parameter in every frigging newgrf to enable / disable /set back to defaults
12:48<@Terkhen>it's not a bug, those are the default TTD costs
12:48<@Terkhen>keeping the default games as similar as possible to TTD has drawbacks too :P
12:49<@planetmaker>if you add a parameter make sure that the default value is "don't change costs"
12:50<@planetmaker>for things you don't define yourself.
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23401 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt serbian.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: serbian - 17 changes by etran
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14:04<andythenorth>canal build cost - 5x rail, or 10x ?
14:04*andythenorth thinks 5x is too generous, 10x still expensive
14:04<andythenorth>but it *is* a ship canal
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>compare with the cheapest rails from nutracks
14:05*andythenorth downloads nutracks
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>(that even makes roads seem pretty expensive)
14:05<andythenorth>that's just silly
14:05<andythenorth>that's < 50% of normal cost
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>we need roadtypes! :)
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>and canaltypes! :p
14:06<andythenorth>maybe we could actually interest peter1138 in watertypes. no crossings, no catenary, reduced hassle :P
14:07<andythenorth>should building canal cost same as the method of 'lower land, flood' ?
14:07<andythenorth>or less? or more?
14:07<andythenorth>lower land removes 2x the volume of material
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>imho it should be less
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14:17<andythenorth>cost of removing an aqueduct?
14:18<andythenorth>@calc 6000/150
14:18<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 40
14:18<andythenorth>removing an aqueduct costs 40x as much as removing the same distance train bridge
14:23<andythenorth>now I need to skip some sprites depending on parameter
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14:32<Eddi|zuHause>cost of rail bridges is way too low anyway
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14:47<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: and there the (cost) madness begins
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15:03<andythenorth>^ one of about three reasons I never want to run a listed company :P
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15:17<@Terkhen>oooh, svn patch
15:18<@Terkhen>which of course uses a completely different syntax
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>one should create a convention to name patches .p0.diff and .p1.diff
15:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r23402 /trunk/src/ (tilearea.cpp tilearea_type.h): -Add: Function to check if a TileArea contains a tile. (michi_cc)
15:23<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: it's clear from the first lines how it wants to be used
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but that means i have to look at the file first
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: as patch has no "autodetection"
15:24<@planetmaker>indeed not
15:24<@Terkhen>I created a patch script with autodetection while working with my patchpack
15:24<@Terkhen>so it is not complicated :P
15:24<@planetmaker>he. looking for src/... or a/src ?
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: but custom-made scripts are almost always worse than builtin functionality
15:25<@Terkhen> <--- I don't remember
15:25<@Alberth>the real fun starts when you are in src :)
15:25<@Terkhen>Eddi|zuHause: of course :P
15:25<@Terkhen>this is just a hack
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>that link doesn't seem to have autodetection
15:28<@Terkhen>it tries to patch and checks the output
15:28<@Terkhen>it is a BIG hack
15:29<@Alberth>yeah, a good way to make a mess :p
15:29<@Terkhen>yes, I'm starting to remember why I abandoned those scripts
15:29<frosch123>if it uses --dry-run, it should be fine
15:29<@Terkhen>it doesn't :D
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15:55<LordAro>MInecraft fans: yogscast doing a livestream of OTTD :)
15:57<TinoDidriksen> for those searching...
15:58<LordAro>lewis is being a bit stupid :L
15:59<TinoDidriksen>Isn't that what we expect from them?
16:00<LordAro>and wooden bridges! :'(
16:02<Zuu>Whom are they?
16:04<LordAro>well-known minecraft youtubers
16:04<Zuu>Oh.. never played minecraft.
16:05<frosch123>are they playing chillpp ?
16:05<LordAro>seems not, but they do seem to have found 32bpp graphics
16:06<LordAro>actually, the population of the towns are red...
16:06-!-keky_ [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:06<LordAro>some sort of patched version, certainly
16:08<@Terkhen>that's definitely rating in town label or one of the updated versions
16:09<@Terkhen>so... patched
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16:09<frosch123>i think it also has some cargod*st
16:10<frosch123>the gui has some stuff for that
16:10<LordAro>and smallmap zoom
16:11<frosch123>anyway, 3300 people watching ottd
16:11<frosch123>compare that to the only 32000 people watching nasl sc2 finals :p
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16:11<andythenorth>if it was HD, we would get much more players
16:11<Zuu>And they don't even play it well :-)
16:11<@Terkhen>and only 100 of them are shouting that the game is boring or worse :P
16:12<LordAro>Terkhen: wouldn't worry about that, yogscast fanboys are extremely stupid
16:12<frosch123>Terkhen: they are also shouting that in the sc2 channels :p
16:12<frosch123>so, i would just judge by number of watchers
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16:12<TrueBrain>so what does lewis have to say about ottd?
16:12<@Terkhen>LordAro: I used to check SPUF, I know what kind of guys follow this thing :P
16:13<@Terkhen>steam forums
16:13<LordAro>fair point :)
16:13<@Terkhen>rage, whine and troll forms
16:13<frosch123>anyway, they noly seem to know two way signals, so all trains mess up :p
16:14<Zuu>That station they are building at at least got some pre signals.
16:14<+glx>Terkhen: the usual "don't buy this game" ?
16:14<TrueBrain>should I reinforce our servers, or will they be fine? :P
16:14<LordAro>TB: i wouldn't worry too much :)
16:15<+glx>TrueBrain: our servers survived notch playing openttd
16:15<+glx>(and telling it on twitter)
16:15<TrueBrain>even slashdot, so no, I am not really worried :P
16:15<@Terkhen>glx: or worse :P
16:15<+glx>a notch tweet can kill a server
16:16<TrueBrain>poor sysops with poor servers :P
16:16<+glx>jeb_ has this power too I think
16:16<TrueBrain>at least they can write with roads
16:16<TrueBrain>*I am so proud*
16:17<frosch123>yeah, but i wonder whether he does not like autoroad, or whether he does not know about it :p
16:17<LordAro>apart from the fact that he doesn't know about autorail
16:17<LordAro>too slow :)
16:17<TrueBrain>autoroad?! :P
16:17<@Terkhen>yeah, they are going to bankrupt :P
16:17<frosch123>though usually those who do not like autoroad, use hotkeys
16:18<+glx>it's really possible to bankrupt ?
16:18<@planetmaker>Indeed, I think they haven't discovered it, the auto* features.
16:18<@planetmaker>they really need the tutorial goal script :-)
16:19<LordAro>since it's quite probable that they look at the forums, should we leave a message for them? :)
16:19<TrueBrain>at least the auto-signals :P
16:19<@peter1138>anyone got a login? :p
16:19<Zuu>Yep, planetmaker shall we make it? :-)
16:19<@planetmaker>yes :-)
16:19<TrueBrain>you _almost_ have the full power to do so :)
16:19<frosch123>LordAro: i doubt they are looking at our forums
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16:20<TrueBrain>best comment so far: CREEPER!
16:20<frosch123>peter1138: are you going to stream ottd now?
16:21<@planetmaker>well, it's actually good to watch. Shows the bear traps actually
16:21<+glx>waste of roads
16:21<LordAro>i have a twitch tv account now, if anyone wants to say anythingg :L
16:21<frosch123>hehe, building road like rails :)
16:23<TrueBrain>omg, peter1138, and THAT is what you come up with?! :P
16:23<Zuu>They need to read the wiki page about hidden ctrl clicks etc. :-p
16:23<frosch123>TrueBrain: yeah, thought the same :p
16:23<@peter1138>TrueBrain, sorry :(
16:24<TrueBrain>lot of <message deleted>
16:24<@peter1138>what's that music? o_O
16:25<LordAro>think it's openmsx
16:25*andythenorth ponders
16:25<TrueBrain>andythenorth: sounds painful
16:25<andythenorth>can we allow some ships to go *down* river rapids please?
16:25<andythenorth>with a flag
16:26<TrueBrain>lol @ loan amount :)
16:26<+glx>but with coal they should be able to repay loan easily
16:27<Rubidium>start game, repay loan, ALT-1
16:28<Rubidium>so much easier
16:28<TrueBrain>in multiplayer?
16:28<Rubidium>who care about MP?
16:29<TrueBrain>I do :'(
16:29<@peter1138>take it out
16:29<@peter1138>nobody uses it
16:29<LordAro>yogscast fans are so innocent :)
16:29<frosch123>we need to filter vehicle names for strong word
16:30<LordAro>peter1138: :)
16:30<LordAro>we should keep telling them until they notice :)
16:30<frosch123>TrueBrain: now they are teaming up for ddos :p
16:30<@Terkhen>against us?
16:31*Terkhen wonders if they'll manage to get it to 50% of the load we get on april
16:31<TrueBrain>frosch123: I will make sure to get some popcorn, watch them try :)
16:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23403 /branches/1.1/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
16:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
16:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Network] Do not send chat messages to clients that have not joined yet [FS#4826] (r23337)
16:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Assertion could be triggered in case a station was removed just after a vehicle delivered cargo to it [FS#4849] (r23312)
16:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Pathfinders go haywire when you build a lock over a ship going perpendicular to the axis of the new lock [FS#4845] (r23284)
16:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Prevent against writing data for unknown fonts (r23283)
16:32<+glx>haha "chat was cleared by moderator"
16:33-!-Jocke [] has joined #openttd
16:34<+glx>poor moderators
16:34<@peter1138>those 32bpp sprites look terrible :p
16:35<frosch123>well, you must be a special type of person to volunteer for moderatorship in chat :p
16:35<frosch123>s/those// ?
16:35<frosch123>LordAro: you already said that
16:36<LordAro>i'm trying to get their attention :)
16:36<@peter1138>frosch123, no special reason for it
16:36<Jocke>The yogscast-people sure are awful at the game..
16:37<TrueBrain>I mostly wonder which patched-up version they are using
16:37<TinoDidriksen>They don't play for skill...they play to make fun comments.
16:37<frosch123>TrueBrain: must be chillpp
16:37<Jocke>But it's painful..
16:37<frosch123>it has lots of patches
16:37<TrueBrain>I guess
16:37<TrueBrain>it has YAIM
16:37<TrueBrain>and chillpp is the only one who has it
16:38<TrueBrain>so you must be right there frosch123 :)
16:39<frosch123>Jocke: but we can say now, that nasl sc2 finals have only 10 times more viewer than a random ottd stream :p
16:39<Jocke>I usually dont watch yogscast or any gaming-streaming, I just wanted to see if they knew what they were doing
16:40<Zuu>Is it default to not show the coverage area highlight?
16:40<frosch123>i would assume 80% of ottd players do not know what they are doing :p
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>i would assume that to be more like 98% :)
16:42<TrueBrain>I am sure it is 100%, as nobody agrees on what a player that knows what he is doing looks like :D
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>do these people have a lower res stream? i get only random 2s excerpts
16:42<TrueBrain>LordAro: at least mention it is :P
16:42<TrueBrain>people will think it is twitter
16:43<LordAro>gd point :)
16:43<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: can nogo already manipulate the UI, i.e. open / close windows and move mouse?
16:43<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i think it is already the lowest res supported by twitchtv
16:43<TrueBrain>planetmaker: no, and the latter is a bit useless sadly
16:43*LordAro modifies the copied text :)
16:43<frosch123>while i have not figured out yet, when twitchtv allows selecting the quality and when not, this stream is worse than the streams i usually watch
16:43<TrueBrain>your screen will be much different than mine :D
16:44<TrueBrain>open en closing windows by ID should be possible I guess
16:44<LordAro>"It's basically just a rollercoaster tycoon parody!"
16:44<@planetmaker>hm, I guess we have no map of where a window and / or its widgets are
16:44<Zuu>For malipulating windows, the hotkey definitions might be useful.
16:44<@peter1138>planetmaker, as long as you know the widget id...
16:44<Zuu>Not the actual keys assigned, but that most buttons etc. have an ID.
16:44<@planetmaker>peter1138: that I'd know as tutorial
16:45<frosch123>maybe we need an api function to highlight some gui button? make it blink or so :p
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>yep, that would be quite useful
16:45<frosch123>but those would be singleplayer only api function
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16:45<@planetmaker>well, yes. We kinda have that with press / unpress or enable / disable
16:45<@planetmaker>of course
16:46<Zuu>And MoveCursorTo(windowId, widgetId) or similar.
16:46<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I think it is sufficient to know when a window opens, and to have some highlight function
16:46<frosch123>i would let the player move the mouse
16:46<TrueBrain>so when you say: Open window bla
16:46<TrueBrain>you know when it happens
16:46<TrueBrain>I dislike tutorials which open random windows for me, as I can never find them back after the tutorial :D
16:46<@planetmaker>yes. An API to highlight a button or widget is sufficient
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16:47<Zuu>Makes sense though that the player should move the mouse him/herself.
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>this is useless. i need an ACTUAL internet connection...
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>not this garden hose thingy
16:47-!-Retriever [] has quit []
16:47<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I only have no clue what so ever HOW to make a highlight :D
16:47-!-Murdox [] has joined #openttd
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>i should sue somebody. they promised 100% coverage with 1Mbit by LAST YEAR!
16:47<TrueBrain>sue me!
16:47<Zuu>TrueBrain: Make the button background lighter/darker for a second?
16:47<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: possibly by some ^
16:47<Zuu>Try just make it black to begin with :-)
16:47<TrueBrain>the Dutch law has this new thing, where I have to pay UPFRONT a legal fee before I can go defend myself ....
16:48<TrueBrain>so you can sue me, I won't have any money, I cannot defend myself, you will win
16:48<TrueBrain>you got to love twisted laws that get accepted :s
16:48<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: the stream sometime pauses for me (but I'm watching a 3.5Mb tv channel at the same time)
16:48<Zuu>But it might make better sense to draw a white border around the button instead as we then don't get into the problem of inverting the text color.
16:49<TrueBrain>we will have to debug that (a lot :))
16:50<frosch123>Zuu: ottd uses recolouring
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>wtf is this Expresso guy talking about? sounds to me like incoherent babble
16:50-!-Docs [] has joined #openttd
16:50<frosch123>for a start you could make it darker like in the coloured newspaper
16:50-!-LuxorCZ [] has joined #openttd
16:51<TrueBrain>@calc 2447 / 60
16:51<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 40.7833333333
16:51<@peter1138>"this game looks old"< heh
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>i'd make it a flashy frame like the error tile highlighting
16:51<LuxorCZ>Everyone watching Lewis, Duncan and Sips playing?
16:51<LordAro>lol, 10 valubles trucks
16:51<LordAro>LuxorCZ: for about 30mins, yes :P
16:52<LuxorCZ>I am watching from the start.
16:52<@peter1138>oh thank god
16:52<LuxorCZ>He made alot of mistakes along the way.
16:52-!-Jurgis [] has joined #openttd
16:52<+glx>LordAro: see what you've done ;)
16:52-!-TWerkhoven [] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
16:52<LordAro>problem? :P
16:53-!-George [~George@] has joined #openttd
16:53<LuxorCZ>Really,alot of these trucks.
16:53-!-DDR [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
16:53<andythenorth>wtf tech levels?
16:53<TrueBrain>we have 4 time as heavy load atm (in hits/s) on our servers, lolz
16:53<@planetmaker>yeah. heqs trucks surely are at most tech 1 :-P
16:53<@planetmaker>they're slow :-P
16:53*andythenorth should stay out of suggestions forum
16:53<TrueBrain>doesn't mean much, as around this time it is always relative quiet, but still :)
16:54<LuxorCZ>I wonder how long they are going to play.
16:54-!-amcnie [] has joined #openttd
16:54<@planetmaker>till they reached the goal ;-)
16:54<+glx>100 years left
16:54<Zuu>What goal are they playing for?
16:54<@planetmaker>no no. you exagerate.
16:54-!-Lcawte [] has joined #openttd
16:54*andythenorth tests the !oberhumer rule again
16:54-!-amcnie [] has quit []
16:55<@planetmaker>96 years :-P
16:55<Murdox>they said a couple of hours and that is up soon
16:55<@planetmaker>Zuu: no idea :-)
16:55<Lcawte>I hear there is discussion about the yogscast gameplay in here? :P
16:55<LordAro>TrueBrain: the yogscast effect :)
16:55<LuxorCZ>For the next twenty minutes,we are gonna watch my ship.
16:55<TrueBrain>LordAro: I am not really impressed sadly :P
16:55<@orudge>hmm, he is making some amount of money, it seems
16:55<@orudge>how long has this been going on?
16:55<LordAro>LuxorCZ: your ship? you are not Lewis, are you?
16:56<@orudge>ah, well, 7 years
16:56-!-George|2 [~George@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:56<LuxorCZ>I was saying what he said. Watching the ship is one of the most funny things in OTTD.
16:56-!-LordPixaII [] has joined #openttd
16:56<TrueBrain>did he seriously just mention goatse? Omfg :P
16:57<TrueBrain>that is oldschool
16:57<Lcawte>Its like watching paint dry but on a computer screen :P
16:57<@orudge>where else would you see a guy stretch open his anus like that?
16:57<@orudge>hmm, this is actually the first time I've heard the OpenMSX music :p
16:57<LuxorCZ>I prefer the old one.
16:58<LordAro>i have had the bad luck of having seen that :L
16:58<frosch123>LordAro: tell him to use the follow vehicle command :p
16:58<@orudge>I imagine most people have
16:58<TrueBrain>an estimation of 4000 people visited our website over the normal flow of people we get. Just to throw in some random stats
16:58<Zuu>I prefered when it was silent until they decided to put it on again.
16:58<Zuu>Not that the music is bad, but just annoying strong.
16:58<frosch123>LordAro: ctrl+click onto the topmost icon in vehicle view
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>overall i have heard like 0.3 seconds of the music
16:58<@orudge>ooh, a shoutout
16:58<@orudge>of sorts
16:58<@orudge>how do we communicate with them, then?
16:58<LordAro>yay! it got mentioned :)
16:58<LuxorCZ>The chat is still crazy after the long time.
16:58<@orudge>oh, there's a chat thing
16:59<LuxorCZ>What did they say about you?
16:59<Lcawte>Lewis from YogsCast wants you in their vent :P
16:59<LuxorCZ>GO THERE!
16:59<Lcawte>And apparently, OpenTTD developers, your either nerdy or gansters apparently ^.^
17:00<@peter1138>could be nerdy gangsters
17:00<LuxorCZ>Or gangstery nerds
17:00-!-Jurgis [] has quit []
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>Age of the Geek!
17:00-!-Jurgis [] has joined #openttd
17:00<LuxorCZ>3162 people watching a slow boat.
17:00<LuxorCZ>That is amazing.
17:01-!-jacobus52999 [] has joined #openttd
17:01<__ln__>i was surprised about the leipzig hbf
17:01-!-chillcore [] has joined #openttd
17:01<chillcore>Hello All.
17:02<chillcore>Was lurking and had to come over :)
17:02<Lcawte>I wish I was playing on the stream with them, you'd just see this new company take over...
17:02<LordAro>hai chillcore
17:02<LuxorCZ>I wish I played with them.
17:02<chillcore>hello Lord.
17:02-!-Pixa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:02-!-Eraclea [] has joined #openttd
17:03<LuxorCZ>This is far nicer place than the chat at stream.
17:03<frosch123>you can say that about any chat on any stream :p
17:03<TrueBrain>oeh, we are almost at 50% of what slashdot caused last time (hits/s)
17:03<Lcawte>Well, this stream is rather good, its getting the site a lot more hits and the game some more new players... even if its only short lived :P
17:03<+glx>(and we survived slashdot)
17:04<frosch123>(with the old server)
17:04<@orudge>We have a somewhat beefier server now than then, too
17:04<@peter1138>he should ctrl-click on the boat's view button :)
17:04<LuxorCZ>Who was that talking? I haven't understood.
17:04<TrueBrain>if you don't know slashdot, you are a bad nerd :)
17:04<LuxorCZ>Cause of that music..
17:04<frosch123>peter1138: lordaro tried to tell him, but said "eye-icon". there is no eye-icon in opengfx :p
17:05<Jocke>TrueBrain: slashdot aint that great
17:05<LordAro>i've changed my clipboard-text since then :)
17:05<@peter1138>slashdot is poor, yes
17:05<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> [...] there is no eye-icon in opengfx :p <- i always said that changing the icons like that is bad
17:06<chillcore>Cute how the one dude goes *dududududu* on the beat of the music from time to time. :P
17:06<TrueBrain>Jocke: many many many many many many many webservers claim otherwise :P
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>changing the wrench icon to a gear icon
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>changing the ? icon to an i icon
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>it only adds to confusion when describing stuff
17:07<Jocke>TrueBrain: it's greatly overrated and really not that good, no matter what anyone says
17:08<TrueBrain>I am guessing that is your opinion, and you are free to have it. I am only afraid many do not share it with you :)
17:08<LuxorCZ>Now they are playing SOI music. My life is complete.
17:08<Jocke>Well, alot of people does share it with me TrueBrain ;)
17:08<LuxorCZ>OTTD + Yogscast + SOI Music.
17:08<Rubidium>I think there is a difference between quality (of content) and quantity of "followers"
17:08<LuxorCZ>It made the ship moving epic.
17:08<Rubidium>(of slashdot)
17:08<Jocke>Also, there's different kinds of 'nerds'
17:09<LuxorCZ>Shadow of Israphle
17:09<TrueBrain>lol @ Rubidium :)
17:09<Rubidium>the following of slashdot is what is the fear of many (small) hosters
17:09<Jocke>There's those who use a computer to read stuff online who considers themselves to be nerds, then there's those who knows how to do stuff
17:09<LuxorCZ>Thing that made yogscast alot famous.
17:09<LordAro>peter1138: their main youtube minecraft series
17:10<TrueBrain>Jocke: however, the slashdot effect is very real :)
17:10<TrueBrain>and not to be taken as a joke
17:10<Jocke>Sure, whatever
17:11<LordAro>OTTD should have this music
17:11<frosch123>it will get boring within hours
17:12<frosch123>game music must be suited to be played looped over and over all day
17:12-!-LordPixaII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:12<frosch123>most importantly it has to exclude vocals for that :)
17:13<LordAro>good point
17:13<LordAro>i never think these things through :)
17:13<frosch123>LordAro: it's not that we want to shout at them about their playing style :p
17:13<TrueBrain>some quickly give Xaroth the magic link to the cast :P
17:13<TrueBrain>damn, you guys are getting slow :D:D
17:13<chillcore>LordAro Kill music and play MP3? Besides the cheesy midi fits the game well IMHO.
17:14-!-Ter0 [] has joined #openttd
17:14<Xaroth>almost forgot i had this window open..
17:14-!-wsirc_3130268 [] has joined #openttd
17:14<TrueBrain><3 frosch123
17:14-!-Roadrunner96 [] has joined #openttd
17:14<TrueBrain>you win a cookie!
17:14<Xaroth>right, i'm actually pausing apollo18 for this
17:14<TrueBrain> <- feel free to get as many as you like
17:14<Xaroth>so this better be good
17:14<LuxorCZ>I hope I will get mentioned. Somewhy I want to.
17:14<Xaroth>lol @ the fail track layout :o
17:14-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:14<frosch123>TrueBrain: more than fb?
17:15<TrueBrain>frosch123: not sure, will be a tie
17:15<chillcore>I think they is lurking here too ... lol
17:15<+glx>Xaroth: blue and yellow are AIs
17:15<TrueBrain>which AIs? :P
17:15*Jocke goes back to building a droid-brain
17:16-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
17:17<Xaroth>well red's rails is also missing a few.. er.. optimizations
17:17-!-DDR_ [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
17:17<Xaroth>and why aren't they testing nogo, TrueBrain! :o
17:17<+glx>not only rails ;)
17:17<chillcore>My patchpack for sure ... I hope it does not crash on them though :P
17:17<TrueBrain>Xaroth: ugh, please no
17:17-!-jacobus52999 [] has left #openttd []
17:17-!-Ter0 [] has quit []
17:18<TrueBrain>hahaha; we do not chat here :D
17:18<TrueBrain>kewl :D
17:18<LordAro>chillcore: you must be so proud :)
17:18<chillcore>Xarath: Nogo not yet included.
17:18<LuxorCZ>I guess they mentioned this IRC once mor.e
17:18<LordAro>TrueBrain: we're all bots :)
17:18<TrueBrain>chillcore: and I think NoGo is not good enough yet to be included in your pack ;)
17:18<TrueBrain>it changes on daily base :)
17:18<chillcore>pretty awesome for sure and lot of publicity ofcourse.
17:18<@DorpsGek>you need a key to talk here?
17:18-!-jacobus52999 [] has joined #openttd
17:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r23404 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: Tilematrix structure (michi_cc).
17:19<+glx>TrueBrain: NoGo is progressively added to trunk anyway
17:19<chillcore>TrueBrian: I agree and I must admit I have not yet tested much.
17:19<TrueBrain>glx: parts of it :)
17:19<TrueBrain>chillcore: no worries :)
17:19<TrueBrain>I have enough testers atm :)
17:20<+glx>I should test it :)
17:20<chillcore>TrueBrain: Cool. If it makes trunk it will be in when I restart anyway. ;)
17:20<TrueBrain>still lots to do :)
17:21<LordAro>well, that was interesting :)
17:21<LuxorCZ>It was.
17:21<LuxorCZ>I guess they ended. :(
17:21<chillcore>It is a big patch and touches everything. yeah I imagine.
17:21<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r23405 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Keep a matrix of cargos accepted by houses for each town (michi_cc).
17:21<chillcore>Aaaaaaaah they stopped.
17:22<TrueBrain>so a peak of 50hits/s, not bad for a livecast tbh
17:22<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r23406 /trunk/src/date.cpp: -Change: Run the monthly subsidy loop after cargo acceptance has been calculated.
17:22<LordAro>TrueBrain: see? if i hadn't told you, you wouldn't know why :)
17:22<__ln__>\win 24
17:22<TrueBrain>LordAro: very true, tnx for that :)
17:23<__ln__>fail 25
17:23-!-DDR [~chatzilla@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:23<TrueBrain>and I wanted to stress-test the latest setup for a while now
17:23<LuxorCZ>Goodbye, people.
17:23<TrueBrain>nothing beats a live-test
17:23<TrueBrain>o/ LuxorCZ
17:23<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r23407 /trunk/src/ (saveload/town_sl.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Keep a bitmap of all cargos accepted by towns.
17:23-!-DDR_ is now known as DDR
17:23<TrueBrain>and I am content with the new setup, the CPU didn't even increase :P
17:23-!-jacobus52999 [] has left #openttd []
17:23<TrueBrain>so OpenTTD is ready for the next slashdot and notch-effect combined :P :)
17:24<TrueBrain>guess it is the perfect time to thank for hosting us :D
17:25*LordAro applauds
17:25*chillcore is glad the PP did not crash on them. :)
17:26<TrueBrain>a nice compliment there for you chillcore ;)
17:26<TrueBrain>no obvious bugs and issues :)
17:26<chillcore>still they should have tested trunk ... or the stable RC
17:26<chillcore>Thank you TrueBrain
17:27<TrueBrain>its not easy to combine a shitload of patches, and make them work together :)
17:27<TrueBrain>often underrated tbh
17:27<chillcore>Ofcourse also due the high quality of the patches chosen ;)
17:27<Xaroth>ugh, HoN, right, back to apollo18
17:27<chillcore>And trunk too !
17:28-!-LuxorCZ [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
17:28-!-Eraclea [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia]
17:28<chillcore>And indeed underrated sometimes. I took me over a year an many many hours to get this far.
17:30<Xaroth>__ln__: at least you're using irssi, so the fail isn't -that- bad..
17:30<@Terkhen>meh, lazy CIA
17:31*TrueBrain slaps CIA-6
17:31<TrueBrain>@openttd commit
17:31<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by terkhen :: r23408 trunk/src/subsidy.cpp (2011-12-03 22:26:30 UTC)
17:31<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Feature: Allow to create subsidies for any combination of source and destination types.
17:31<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Change: Do not rely in TownEffects for awarding subsidies.
17:32<LordAro>:O not fixed subsidies??
17:32<TrueBrain>at least DorpsGek is more available
17:32<__ln__>das letzte sendung von gottschalk oder etw?
17:32<TrueBrain>__ln__: wrong language; please change your language and try again :D
17:32<Xaroth>__ln__: you missed a /win somewhere :P
17:32<CIA-6>OpenTTD: terkhen * r23408 /trunk/src/subsidy.cpp:
17:32<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Feature: Allow to create subsidies for any combination of source and destination types.
17:32<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Change: Do not rely in TownEffects for awarding subsidies.
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: well, he wanted to quit half a year ago already...
17:33<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: he wanted to quit 10 years ago
17:33<@Terkhen>oh, I have to edit the specs
17:33<frosch123>Terkhen: no :p
17:33<frosch123>too late :p
17:33-!-Roadrunner96 [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]]
17:34<CIA-6>OpenTTD: glx * r23409 /trunk/projects/ (10 files): -Change: reorder files in langs project
17:34<TrueBrain>glx: <3<3<3
17:34*Terkhen closes FS#954 before anyone else does it first :P
17:34<TrueBrain>Terkhen: no
17:34<TrueBrain>j/k :D
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: didn't he once quit and come back?
17:38<frosch123>yes, but that is 20 years ago
17:38<frosch123>he wanted to quit when he became 50 because the show is meant for age < 50
17:38<frosch123>but i think now he is 60 :p
17:44<chillcore>Anyone knows if yogscast records its live sessions? I only got to see the end of the game and if I understood correctly they played for an hour or so ...
17:45-!-Netsplit <-> quits: Zuu, Neon, TomyLobo, SpComb, @planetmaker, Arkabzol, Priski, MNIM, Docs, DDR, (+104 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
17:45-!-Netsplit over, joins: tty234, tparker, ^Spike^, dfox_, @blathijs, ricky26, Maarten__, SpComb, Hawson, Vadtec (+103 more)
17:45<LordAro>chillcore: i think twitch tv keeps archives
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>i think he just split :p
17:45<Zuu>Yep, I found the stream in the archive. Didn't try it though.
17:45<LordAro>i think he just came back :P
17:46<chillcore>Zuu: Do you have a link perhaps?
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>complementing that statistic: the average german is 44, the average tv viewer 51
17:47<Zuu>Oh, it was not an archive, but a link to the ongoing stream. ( )
17:50<chillcore>Zuu: Yeah thats the one I still have open ... they is playing something else now.
17:50<chillcore>LordAro: ... Linkie to archives perhaps?
17:50<LordAro>chillcore: i'm looking.. :)
17:51<Zuu>Sorry, I mistook it for being an archive but it clearly says that it is a live stream. :-(
17:51<Zuu>Maybe LordAro who has an account there can figure out if they have archives for the members.
17:52<chillcore>Zuu: No problem. I just killed the livestream anyway ... hack and slash ... was fun when I was younger.
17:55<LordAro>hmm, i can see links to archives, but they don't seem to do anything
17:55<LordAro> <-- that work at all?
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>that just redirects me to the live cast
17:57<LordAro>that's what i thought
17:57<chillcore>Yes but still the same stream as before. and Eddi|zuHause was faster. :)
17:58<LordAro>i think perhaps it is the same stream, and they haven't 'split' it
17:58<LordAro>so, come back tomorrow and it'll be there
17:59<Zuu>LOL, someone joined the stream and asked for a link to download OpenTTD just to find out that it didn't look like that kill-game that they were currently playing :-p
18:00<LordAro>you're still watching? :P
18:00<chillcore>Ah Ok. Will bookmark the link then. Thank you for searching and the info LordAro.
18:00<Zuu>LordAro: The stream? No
18:00<LordAro>oh good :)
18:00<appe>tip on any fun industry grf?
18:00<LordAro>..what then?
18:01<Zuu>appe: OpenGFX+ Industries?
18:03<chillcore>appe: FIRS or ECS Vectors? Or try them all? <- but not all at once though :P
18:05-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon]
18:06<appe>im trying the ECS wood now.
18:08<chillcore>the ECS vectors can be combined with the ECS vectors, for a more complete experience, without problems ... but it is a lot harder to play with then with FIRS. I have not yet tried OpenGFX+ industries. First finish my FIRS game ...
18:09<appe>i usually play rather small maps, wich complicates using lots of ECS vectors at the same time
18:11-!-Neon [] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
18:11<chillcore>True ... as long as you are having fun all is good. ;)
18:11-!-tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:12-!-Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:13-!-TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido]
18:14-!-wsirc_3130268 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:15-!-KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:16<appe>i love 64x64 maps
18:18<frosch123>water-border only?
18:19-!-tokai [] has joined #openttd
18:19-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
18:27*Rubidium wonders whether there are monthly commit stats of OpenTTD somewhere; I got the feeling there are some months that are generally more quiet than others regarding the amount of development getting done
18:28<@Terkhen>good night
18:28<Rubidium>night Terkhen
18:29<chillcore>sweet dreams Terkhen.
18:30<chillcore>Rubidium: I somehow have the impression that it depends the weather ... the colder the more :)
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it does seem to be massively increasing over the last month :)
18:32<LordAro>Rubidium: ?
18:32<LordAro>with the code analyst set to 'commits'
18:34<LordAro>seems most commits in a month was 433, in january 2007
18:38<chillcore>80% C++, 10% C. almost there .... except that is still 29257 lines of C. ;)
18:39*LordAro thinks that Truebrain shouldn't be 'retired' in the credits
18:39<TrueBrain>LordAro: I very much am :) But tnx ;)
18:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23411 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Company infrastructure counts for rail.
18:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23410 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Add: A window with a detailed overview over the infrastructure of a company.
18:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23412 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Company infrastructure counts for road.
18:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23413 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Company infrastructure counts for canals.
18:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23414 /trunk/src/ (saveload/company_sl.cpp station_cmd.cpp waypoint_cmd.cpp): -Add: Company infrastructure counts for stations/airports.
18:40<LordAro>ah! a wild commit appeared!
18:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23415 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 5 dirs): -Feature: Infrastructure maintenance costs.
18:40<Rubidium> ;)
18:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23416 /trunk/ (20 files in 6 dirs): -Add: [NoAI] API for querying infrastructure costs.
18:42<LordAro>so, that's YAIM in trunk, i guess
18:43<Rubidium>so september and october are generally the quiet months
18:43<TrueBrain>haha, nice Rubidium :)
18:44-!-Elukka [] has quit []
18:44<LordAro>gah, why can chrome not view pdfs??
18:44<Jurgis>it can't?
18:44<chillcore>TrueBrain: /me agrees with LordAro little a bit. Anyway I do understand your point of view. Anyway I updated the wiki's readmes with your nick as per readme. ;)
18:45<chillcore>- second anyway
18:45<LordAro>Jurgis: my version cannot (17.0.950.0)
18:47<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23417 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: wrong argument to printf
18:48<appe>the ecs wood vector only seems to start the game with one forest
18:49<chillcore>appe: try a (slightly) bigger map and set the number of industries higher in the options.
18:50<appe>i see
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: now your efforts are free to finish YACD :p
18:51<Rubidium>those stats might be skewed due to changed working procedures, e.g. I looked at the whole repository so branches are accounted for
18:51<Rubidium>and those branches we don't use anymore
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18:52<+michi_cc>Yeah, local branches in DVCS lead to less "stupid, revert/fix/redo" commits in SVN :)
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>2007/2008 is hard to distinguish
18:53<appe>chillcore: how do i set the number of industries?
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18:53*chillcore thinks YACD and CargoDist should be joined somehow before merge in trunk. Both have their advantages.
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18:55<chillcore>appe: when you click new game ... number of industries? Click on the high/low/none part. I do not have OpenTTD open right now.
18:55<chillcore>same as you choose number of towns ;)
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18:56<Eddi|zuHause>completely unrelated: in <-- the town window, where it says "the town does NOT grow" <- the "not" looks shifted too low in the line
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>(due to the other text not having shadow, i presume)
18:57<TrueBrain>shadow effects playing tricks on you?
18:57<TrueBrain>check with paint :)
18:58<chillcore>Also ... michi_cc: woot. I am really tempted to play a clean trunk game these days. (and restart my PP too)
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18:59<Eddi|zuHause>chillcore: well, you just released a "as good as final" version of your PP, so starting over now is best :)
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18:59<chillcore>rivers, zoom, infrastructure and everything else.
19:00<chillcore>Eddi|zuHause: Yeah you are right. Just need to update YAIM to v3.1+fix and update language files ...
19:01<Rubidium>oh, a hint about language files: the order of strings in the translations doesn't matter
19:01<chillcore>It is just the starting over part that is holding me back a bit ...
19:02<chillcore>Rubidium: It does not? how come that some string get the wrong order ingame then sometimes?
19:02<chillcore>oh in the translations ... I see
19:04<chillcore>good to know that, although it makes it easier to maintain them when keeping the correct order there too.
19:10<chillcore>Anyway time for bed ... my kids won't care tomorrow morning if I have slept enough or not. They'll want food and stuff anyway.
19:10<chillcore>Good night all.
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>food is overrated
19:11<chillcore>I tried telling them that earlier this evening ... they didn't believe me. ;)
19:12<chillcore>And they were already stuffed with candy ... oh well tomorrow is the rest of the pizza instead of sandwiches.
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>people nowadays get way too much food anyway
19:13<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: sounds like procedures are working fine, even though slightly odd ;)
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19:15<chillcore>Eddi|zuHause: Not my kids ... They have it my way or no way (not only in regards of food). They respect me for that much more then what I see around me sometimes.
19:15<Rubidium>as DoD I'd be happy to hear the captains noticed it and at least acted in some way to confirm there being a threat
19:17<chillcore>Eddi|zuHause: I always have to laugh when children are able to manipulate their parents and the parents do not even see it happening.
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19:17<chillcore>Anyway bedtime for me. Tomorrow is another day.
19:19<Rubidium>but tomorrow is today
19:19<Rubidium>anyhow, sweet dreams
19:20<chillcore>Crap ... now I have to wait to go to bed. Or I have to sleep for 23 hours. :)
19:20<chillcore>Thanks you too.
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19:21<Eddi|zuHause> <-- haha :p
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20:01<appe>i have a station between two different industries both accepting coal
20:01<appe>what decides who gets how much part of the coal?
20:02<@Yexo>the industry closest to the station sign gets all coal
20:08<appe>and if its a tie?
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>there's always one that is found first, since the search is deterministic
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 04 00:00:19 2011