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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-01-15

---Logopened Sun Jan 15 00:00:57 2012
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02:51<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:09<andythenorth>#define THIS_TRAILER_1_ID veh_hackler_CD_trailer_1
04:09<andythenorth>#define THIS_TRAILER_ID(...) __VA_ARGS__ ## THIS_TRAILER_1_ID
04:10<andythenorth>how do I get the second define to expand THIS_TRAILER_1_ID ?
04:10<andythenorth>I need to wrap it in another macro somehow
04:10<@planetmaker>iirc that doesn't work
04:10<@Alberth>#define B(X, Y) X ## Y and B(__VA_ARGS__, THIS_TRAILER_1_ID) ?
04:11<andythenorth>Alberth: seems plausible
04:12<@Alberth>although __VA_ARGS__ ## anything looks very fishy imho
04:13<andythenorth>the B() method doesn't work
04:13<andythenorth>still not expanding THIS_TRAILER_1_ID
04:13<andythenorth>think it needs another call
04:15<@Alberth>could you explain how this becomes easier to understand and maintain again, please?
04:15<andythenorth>I'm not sure it does
04:16*Alberth nods
04:16<andythenorth>I might just duplicate the defines of identifiers several times
04:16<andythenorth>copy + paste is easier than maintaining brainfuck cpp
04:16<@Alberth>cpp isn't designed for what you are trying to do, so duh :)
04:17<andythenorth>it's all I've got right now ;)
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04:18<LordAro>good mornings
04:18<@Alberth>moin lord
04:20*Alberth sees pictures of people hammering down screws in the wood
04:21<@planetmaker>andythenorth: in FIRS we use THIS_ID(whateverswitchname) in the templates
04:21<@planetmaker>but we don't template the templates
04:21<@planetmaker>thus we spell out the templates entirely
04:21<LordAro>Alberth: wuh?
04:21<@Alberth>you are reading logs, weren't you? :)
04:21*andythenorth offers free chance to anyone else to try templating articulated trucks with nml + cpp
04:22<andythenorth>good luck
04:22*andythenorth nearly has it done without insane cpp
04:22<@planetmaker>it may occasionally come with a bit copying when differing similar templates
04:22<@planetmaker>but... that's acceptable
04:22<@planetmaker>first, andythenorth, I'd remove all those defines which read like
04:22<@planetmaker>#define THIS_TRUCK_COST 10
04:22<@planetmaker>and later
04:22<@planetmaker>you just use it as
04:23<@planetmaker>property { cost: THIS_TRUCK_COST; }
04:23<andythenorth>that's hardly the problem :)
04:23<@planetmaker>that's bloat and makes it not readable
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04:23<@planetmaker>and obstructs the view on the real problem(s)
04:25<LordAro>Alberth: still not getting you :)
04:26<@planetmaker>andythenorth: and in order to be able to do that in a good way, it'll need knowledge of what the code w/o template looks like ;-)
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04:32<andythenorth>planetmaker: it looks very long
04:32<andythenorth>I wouldn't bother writing it out tbh
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04:33<andythenorth>I could just switch to nfo and do this in the way I know how - but that's not so useful
04:34<@Alberth>and that is not long?
04:34<andythenorth>not really no
04:35<andythenorth>nml works fundamentally differently to nfo wrt varaction 2
04:35<andythenorth>I have now achieved several working solutions, but they all suck wrt 'too much cpp' or 'too many hard coded identifiers'
04:36<andythenorth>duplication of hard coded identifiers is a lesser evil by far though
04:36<@Alberth>can you give me an example of what you want to have and/or the cpp code, I could have a go with m4
04:37<@planetmaker> <-- Alberth
04:37<@planetmaker>that's already pre-processed, though
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04:39<@Alberth>how to guess what you want to have parameterized?
04:42<andythenorth>repo? :P
04:42<andythenorth>give me a couple of mins to commit something that works
04:46<andythenorth>Alberth: pushed
04:47<andythenorth>there's a bug with truck capacity, but I think it's an obiwan
04:47<@planetmaker> <-- a tentative template for the extra text
04:47<@planetmaker>it requires #define TRAILER_NUMBER 2
04:47<@Alberth>doesn't matter, I am only interested in the input -> output relation, not in the actual values
04:47<@planetmaker>(or 0,1,2,3)
04:48<@Alberth>line 40 is wrong :)
04:49<@planetmaker>indeed :-)
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05:05<andythenorth>planetmaker: the subtypes are best handled with (mostly) plain switches
05:05<andythenorth>I abandoned the idea of making this extensible to n trailers automatically
05:05<andythenorth>it's a much simpler problem after that
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05:10<@Alberth>but those expansions are much easier in nml, as you can write loops and do computations :p
05:11<andythenorth>not much cpp here ;)
05:11<andythenorth>some of those ALL_CAPS are nml built ins
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05:17*andythenorth has to go bbl
05:17<andythenorth>the only difficult problem is passing trailer identifiers to both the articulated building cb AND the graphics template without duplicating them
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05:21<@planetmaker>he, Alberth :-) we were about equally fast ;-)
05:22<@Alberth>ok, who should finish it?
05:22*Alberth is typing a reply in the FS
05:22<@planetmaker>I don't answer in FS
05:22<@planetmaker>I referred to the ogfx+rv issue
05:23<@planetmaker>and I just closed the issue I created ;-)
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05:41<Zuu>Is that an experiment to release 1.1.5 but not post anything on the forums/website about it?
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05:42<@planetmaker>well... :-)
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05:48<@planetmaker>I guess I could make a short announcement
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06:02<@planetmaker>There, Zuu. I even travelled back in time ;-)
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06:04<TrueBrain>at least someone who cares abuot those things :D
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06:17<Zuu>planetmaker: great! :-)
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06:27<andythenorth>Alberth: any results with m4? :)
06:28<@Alberth>I had some things to finish first, and was about to start now :)
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06:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r23801 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: reading the utf-8 BOM from AI/GS files on big-endian machines failed
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06:34<@Alberth>hmm, I should look at bandit code of course :)
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06:37<andythenorth>Alberth: it's mostly pretty simple
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06:40<andythenorth>trucks have 0 trailers (simple) or n trailers
06:40<andythenorth>trailer trucks are 'drawbar' or 'fifth wheel'
06:40<@Alberth> is the output of the summary?
06:41<@Alberth>what would you want to say as input here?
06:41<andythenorth>that's just code
06:41<andythenorth>templating that is bonkers imho :)
06:41<andythenorth>there's a templated switch that chains into those switches
06:44<@Alberth>I am looking for input text + output text, and how they relate
06:45<andythenorth>I guess the singel processed nml file is best output?
06:45<andythenorth>single /s
06:47<@Alberth>I can produce that, I guess
06:47<@Alberth>but what should I try to convert?
06:48<@Alberth>entire bandit is too much too understand :p
06:48<andythenorth>it's only two trucks in the output
06:48<andythenorth>I can't reduce much further :)
06:48<andythenorth>they show two different cases
06:49<@Alberth>ah, you don't use most of the files. ok :)
06:49<andythenorth>I'm just working on example cases
07:01<andythenorth>Alberth: realistically, the code doesn't need to scale trivially to n trailers either
07:01<andythenorth>3 is sufficient
07:01<andythenorth>that was my first mistake, which I've sorted out now
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07:17<andythenorth>I considered recently removing farm clustering in FIRS
07:18<andythenorth>replacing them with one large 'farm cluster' industry for each type of farm, with graphics for 4 or 5 'farms'
07:18<andythenorth>and higher production
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07:23<@Yexo>Alberth: about FS#4973, it it's a tcp connection the order of the packets it guaranteed by the network protocol
07:24<@Alberth>he said 'bot', I interpret that as IRC bot
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07:24<andythenorth>can I make variadic macros chain with something silly like #?
07:24*andythenorth makes lunch
07:25<@Yexo>in that case ok, I thought he just named the program that connected to the admin port a "bot"
07:26<@Alberth>a valid 2nd explanation, but it is all just guessing
07:27<@Alberth>and the OP is not aware of such things himself, or he would have said so
07:27<@Yexo>I agree :)
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07:46*Alberth is quite lost in the massive number of the files and #defines
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07:51<andythenorth>Alberth: in BANDIT?
07:51*Alberth nods
07:52<andythenorth>the over-use of #defines is a pattern I use nobody else likes. It's overly abstracted
07:52<andythenorth>but I like it...
07:52<@Alberth>if you know the structures, I am sure it makes sense
07:52<andythenorth>the number of files...hmm
07:53<andythenorth>some aren't used
07:53<@Alberth>but I just want to show an example, and instead I am looking for #defines all over the place
07:53<@Alberth>not to mention the deep directory structure :)
07:53<andythenorth>most of the defines relate to vehicle properties
07:54<andythenorth>they could be substituted with the actual output nml
07:54<andythenorth>but I'd probably need to do that for you :P
07:55<@Alberth>just a single file that contains all stuff for the example would be enough
07:55<@Alberth>the #define show what you try to abstract away
07:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r23802 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Fix [FS#4968] (r23601): game lobby gui not updated when new company information becomes available
07:56<@Alberth>perhaps I should copy all files into a single directory :)
07:59<andythenorth>they're only deep because it's faster for me to navigate that way in my file browser
07:59<andythenorth>no other reason :)
08:00<@Yexo>Alberth: if you compile bandit you get a single nml file with all contents in the root directory
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08:01<@Alberth>I know, but I want a single file with #defines in it
08:01<@Alberth>ie only eliminate #include
08:01<@Yexo>not sure there is an easy way to do that
08:02<@Alberth>otherwise I have to guess what andy wants to input
08:02<andythenorth>copy and paste
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>sed s/#define/XXXdefine/?
08:02<@Alberth>good idea Eddi|zuHause, let's try that
08:02<andythenorth>a single file with only defines?
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>STAND BACK, I'm going to use REGEXP!
08:04<andythenorth>Alberth: the file you need is the entire grf, or the entire template for one vehicle?
08:04<@Alberth>just one vehicle first
08:04<andythenorth>or the entire template for one consist?
08:04<@Alberth>what you prefer
08:05<andythenorth>because it's RVs, you're templating a consist
08:05<andythenorth>so I guess that
08:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r23803 /trunk/src/error_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4969]: newgrf textstack was not properly used when storing parameters for the error message window
08:07<andythenorth>but as consists vary, I guess you might need 3 example consists
08:07<@Alberth>do the most complicated one? :)
08:11<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: that seems to work :)
08:12<@Alberth>hmm, it works mostly :)
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08:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r23804 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp strings.cpp): -Fix: [NewGRF] Make string code 80 more secure by not crashing when it's used in strings where it's not supposed to be used
08:20<andythenorth>Alberth: does it compile? :)
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08:46<Hirundo>andythenorth: Please keep farm clustering as-is
08:49<andythenorth>it's known to have flaws :)
08:49<andythenorth>but I think they can be fixed
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08:59<appe_>how do i save a server game?
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09:02<@planetmaker>join and save locally
09:02<@planetmaker>or use rcon save
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09:10<appe_>how do i load it on the dedicated server after a reboot?
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09:15<kais58>from a terminal it's "/path/to/openttd -D -g /path/to/save/file"
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09:40<Hirundo>How do I disable autorefit on a given order?
09:42<Hirundo>It may seem stupid, but I can only seem to change between 'autorefit to XX' and 'autorefit to available', not stop autorefitting
09:43<frosch123>what else? :p
09:44<Hirundo>adding a 'no autorefit' option to the dropdown wouldn't hurt IMO, though
09:44<frosch123>same for normal refit :)
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09:46<Hirundo>For depot orders there are now two refit buttons, one of which is greyed out
09:47<frosch123>damn, svn is so annoying
09:47<frosch123>it just cannot handle adding/removing directories
09:48<frosch123>maybe i should use hg for bisecting :)
09:51<frosch123>btw. you should all use integer parameters in action b more often :p
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09:55<mib_amna8v>hello all
09:55<mib_amna8v>14:47:20 < frosch123> it just cannot handle adding/removing directories
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09:55<mib_amna8v>?? I have done this plenty of times with cargodist
09:56<frosch123>it fails if the directory is already present (unversioned) resp. has some (svn:ignored) files in there
09:56<mib_amna8v>just "svn add src/directory/" should do the trick
09:56<mib_amna8v>all files in there will be added automatically ...
09:56<frosch123>i am talking about svn update :p
09:56<mib_amna8v>ah ok
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09:58<mib_amna8v>Never tried with ignored files in there.
09:58<@Alberth>frosch123: hg does not even version directories :p
09:58<frosch123>Alberth: yup, thus i beleive it would handle it better
09:59<@Alberth>I can recommend making a local mirror of the hg mirror, to use as clone-base for your patches :)
10:00<frosch123>i have it, but i do not use it :p
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10:01<@Alberth>your patches are too simple :D
10:01<mib_amna8v>anyway ... have to take advantage of having a couple of hours of free time to mess with the code a bit :P
10:02<mib_amna8v>good afternoon all.
10:02<frosch123>i would not have to bisect back to r22000 if people would test better :p
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10:03<Jogio>hi "_"
10:03<frosch123>ah, i see, the bug has been present for ages, we just added better testing :p
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10:07<Jogio>can somebody of the important openttd persons look on please? :-)
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10:21<JVassie>anyone able to help me with a little regex issue pls?
10:22<JVassie>I have a string like this for example 'Client Reference: Vassie'
10:22<JVassie>Vassie could be any name though
10:22<JVassie>A-Za-z and hyphens
10:23<JVassie>need to match the thing and wrap it in a h3 tag
10:23<JVassie>so it would read
10:23<JVassie><h3>Client Reference: Vassie</h3>
10:24<JVassie>preg_replace("#(Client Reference: )([A-Za-z]+)(<br />)#e","<h3>$1$2</h3>$3",$regtext);
10:24<JVassie>is what i have so far
10:24<@Alberth>and that will not ever work reliably, as RE is not powerful enough to handle a context-free language like html
10:25<@Alberth>oh, you are going to html. sorry
10:26<JVassie>i put the <br /> tag in the match too just so it doesnt start looking at next line
10:26<JVassie>not sure if thats the best thing to do tho
10:27<Rubidium>most ikely not
10:27<Rubidium>unless it's html-ish
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't look right
10:27<@Alberth>it's not in your string, so it would fail to match
10:28<@Alberth>why not put your string as-is in the <h3> tags?
10:29<JVassie>because my string contains a whole load of other lines of text
10:29<JVassie>seperate by '<br /><br />'
10:29<@Alberth>you are READING html?
10:29<JVassie>2 secs i will do a pastebin
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause>use xsl :)
10:30<@Alberth>well, anything that can correctly deal with the input language would do :)
10:31<JVassie>thats what $regtext contains
10:31<JVassie>hmm, theres a space after Vassie
10:31<@Alberth>looks like xml or html to me
10:32<JVassie>contents of $regtext is just html
10:32<@Alberth>(16:29:30) Alberth: and that will not ever work reliably, as RE is not powerful enough to handle a context-free language like html
10:32<@Alberth>thus :)
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10:33<@Alberth>ie you can get Client reference:\nAlberth as input and your RE will fail
10:34<JVassie>taking the html out of it then
10:34<JVassie>$regtext = 'Client Reference: Vassie';
10:34<JVassie> preg_replace("#(Client Reference: )([A-Za-z]+)#","<h3>$1$2</h3>",$regtext);
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10:35<JVassie>any ideas why that alone doesnt work?
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>JVassie: that will fail as soon as you get arbitrary whitespace
10:36<JVassie>need to replace the ' ' with \s{1} ?
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>rather \s*
10:36<@Alberth>"<h3>" + $regtext + "</h3>" ?
10:37<JVassie>heh Alberth, if I had just that string, then sure :p
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>JVassie: well, you just take a random xml engine, and build the tree. then you go to the leaf containig the "client reference" string
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>nest that in a <h3> node, and write out the xml again
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>assuming you got valid xhtml
10:39<JVassie>website being written in HTML 5
10:39<JVassie>ok, taking it back a step further
10:39<JVassie>might be a smarter way of doing it
10:40<JVassie>users fill in a form
10:40<JVassie>php generates a $regtext base on the input of the form
10:40<JVassie>it then displays the $regtext ina <textarea>
10:40<JVassie>which the user may wish to tweak
10:40<JVassie>adding/removing ifnromation as they see fit
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>never ever allow users to submit xml/html
10:41<JVassie>theyre not submitting html :)
10:41<JVassie>just text
10:41<JVassie>so the actual post result i get from the textarea contains a load of \n
10:41<JVassie>which i str_replace to <br />
10:41<TinoDidriksen>PHP has nl2br()
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>don't do that
10:42<JVassie>bah forgot about nl2br
10:45<JVassie>what would be a better way of going about it then?
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10:48<appe_>when installing 1.1.5 onto a 1.1.4 version, does openttd.cfg get written over with 1.1.5's default config?
10:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23805 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Add: {STRING6} and {STRING7}.
10:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23806 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix: [NewGRF] Integer parameters in ActionB did not quite work anymore.
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>appe_: no, only the new values get default, all old values will be kept
10:50<Ammler>appe_: you should split installdir and datadir
10:50<appe_>i realized it already does
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11:40<cornjuliox>do tunnels still have implied signals at their entrance and exits?
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11:42<kais58>don't think they do
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11:44<@Terkhen>cornjuliox: unless I understood your question wrong, they never did
11:51<andythenorth>@seen alberth
11:51<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: alberth was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 14 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <Alberth> "<h3>" + $regtext + "</h3>" ?
11:52<Jogio>@seen @DorpsGek
11:52<@DorpsGek>Jogio: I have not seen @DorpsGek.
11:52<Jogio>you need a mirror
11:53<__ln__>so do you
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11:57<Jogio>hey , please give me rights for webtranslator someone. I have time now and can't do any useful.
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12:04<Eddi|zuHause>"please give me op, i'm an rl friend of DorpsGek"
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12:07<@Terkhen>Jogio: if you sent an email, you will have to wait until the person(s) that take care of have time to check it
12:08<Jogio>yes I sent it yesterday
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12:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23807 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h newgrf_gui.cpp): -Codechange: GRFError::num_params is not needed, remove it.
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13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23808 /trunk/src/lang/ (52 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove various translations which will be invalid with the next commit.
13:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23809 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf.cpp): -Feature: Enhance some fatal NewGRF errors with the spritenumber that caused the problem.
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>now we only need the sprite number in the sprite aligner
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>and also a debug-mode where i can not only view real sprites, but any pseudo sprites, and in case of action 2, see the last variables and return values it was accessed with
13:25<frosch123>sorry, but christmas was 3 weeks ago
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13:40<Eddi|zuHause>there's always the next christmas
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>or easter
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>or valentines day :p
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13:44<Muxy>Hello here
13:44<Muxy>No Alberth, dommage
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r23810 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by Bennievv
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 7 changes by Rubidium
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 12 changes by NG, planetmaker
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 3 changes by telk5093
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 54 changes by Parastais
13:47<kais58> extract from a build.log, anyone know why it's breaking?
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13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23811 /extra/strgen/Makefile.sub: [strgen] -Fix: compilation
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13:53<xQR>mh, it seems STR_NETWORK_ERROR_TIMEOUT_PASSWORD and STR_NETWORK_ERROR_TIMEOUT_COMPUTER are missing in 1.1.5, despite being used because of the backport of the timeout fixes
13:53<xQR>missing from the lang files i mean
13:54*TrueBrain looks at Rubidium with a face :P
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13:54<TrueBrain>kais58: with what patch applied?
13:54<xQR>should i bother to create a bug tracker entry or will the next release be 1.2.0 anyway? :P
13:54<xQR>beta has the texts
13:55<frosch123>i would assume 1.2.0 to be the next one :)
13:55<kais58>TrueBrain: 1.1.3 without patches as far as I know
13:55<TrueBrain>kais58: which compiler?
13:55<xQR>yeah so the problem will solve itself with 1.2.0 release, then i won't bother
13:56<xQR>it's not causing any problems except that people leaving with a timeout are shown to leave due to a "general error"
13:56<TrueBrain>kais58: does it also happen with trunk?
13:57<Rubidium>since 4.7 is a development version of gcc, it might very well be a gcc bug
13:57<frosch123>TrueBrain: you fixed the "general error" bug in trunk
13:57<TrueBrain>I did; before the backport
13:57<frosch123>maybe it was not backported
13:57<TrueBrain>so I assume Rubidium did backport it where needed
13:57<kais58>I think it was gcc-4.7, I'll make sure
13:57<TrueBrain>kais58: also check against latest trunk; we do fix GCC bugs when we find them
13:57<TrueBrain>newer GCC tends to introduce bugs :P
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13:58<kais58>yeah, it was 4.7.0, I'll see if I can try trunk
13:59<xQR>as i said, no need to bother anyway when it's ok in 1.2.0 beta already and that will be the next release, as it is only a text error
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14:01<xQR>hm, actually it isn't, i looked at the wrong file
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14:09<xQR>ah, it's just english_US.txt where it is missing in - in english.txt it exists
14:09<xQR>in beta it is also in english_US.txt
14:10<xQR>but that's the message that is sent to the affected client - the message displayed to all other players would still show general error in beta, as the STR_NETWORK_ERROR_CLIENT_TIMEOUT_* strings don't exist, they are only in trunk
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14:11<Rubidium>I didn't backport any translations, so they'll definitely be missing
14:11<xQR>i see
14:12<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how much of the CETS compile time is the python stage?
14:12<Rubidium>but then it uses the English (UK) string
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: 1%?
14:12<xQR>but at least in next 1.2.0 it would be good to have the actual messages and not just "general error" (shown to all other clients)
14:12<frosch123>Rubidium: i think r23780 is missing in 1.1
14:12<@Alberth>andy !
14:12<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I'm considering a code generator :P
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: nml takes ridiculously long
14:12<frosch123>noone put it on the list for backports
14:12<andythenorth>I know
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14:14<+michi_cc>xQR: A string missing in english_US.txt only means that the string from english.txt is shown instead, not that won't be shown in any way.
14:14<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: this is a set of defines composing a truck, it's pure CPP, no nml. Could *this* be generated from source (.csv or similar)?
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>real 0m2.808s <-- just the python
14:14<xQR>yeah that was the strings shown to the client affected and i understood that
14:14<Muxy>good evening Alberth
14:14<xQR>but there is a second set of strings with messages shown to all other players (and i think on the console)
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i use tsv, because csv has issues with commas in names, strings, etc.
14:14<andythenorth>potato / potato :D
14:15<xQR>and those aren't set for beta 1.2.0 - not in english.txt and not used in the code
14:15<@Alberth>I was just typing a reply to you.
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i can be fairly certain that there won't be a use for tabs in strings :)
14:15<xQR>so other players will still only see "general error" when another player leaves the server with a timeout in 1.2.0
14:15<@Alberth>So you are connecting to a plain TCP connection, and not some IRC or so, which is what I think of when hearing 'bot'.
14:16<andythenorth>what I could use is "world's dumbest templating" (%s) and an array for each vehicle
14:16<Muxy>Alberth, i'm using OpenTTD Admin Protocol. its running using tcp/3977
14:16<@Alberth>that makes the order problem vanish, as you already said
14:17<andythenorth>anyone interested in writing a code generator? :D
14:17<andythenorth>how about m4 -> cpp -> nml? :P
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i think my code generator should be really easy to adapt to that
14:18<@Alberth>the patch is still not good, I think, or do you really intend to make the 'if' statement and as->Send... statement conditional?
14:18<Muxy>did you get last diff file ? (#3)
14:18<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I'm considering it because I think I'll introduce bugs by forgetting to change values of defines
14:18<andythenorth>the actual work isn't arduous
14:18<Muxy>sent just few minutes ago.
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14:19<andythenorth>could probably use just about any script or macro language
14:19<andythenorth>as long as it can substitute plain values and write a file :P
14:20<andythenorth>I don't know how to start though :o
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14:20<@Alberth>yes, includes statements at 5 and 7 which were no included before
14:20<@Alberth>aside from the fact that it does not comply with coding style ;)
14:20<andythenorth>Alberth: when you've finished your current convo...I read the m4 ;)
14:21<@Alberth>andythenorth: what do you think?
14:21<Muxy>ok, i will review the code.
14:21<Muxy>and make some tests to check all possibles cases
14:21<andythenorth>Alberth: I could read it without questions to you or reference to m4 docs
14:22<andythenorth>I've read 0% of m4 docs
14:22<andythenorth>it's intuitive to me
14:22<@Alberth>then you must be smarter than me :)
14:22<andythenorth>I said 'read', not 'write' :P
14:22<Muxy>yop, back to source code...
14:22<Snail_>andythenorth: how about switching to m4nfo altogether? ;)
14:23<Snail_>I've been using it for a year and love it
14:23<andythenorth>Snail_: wouldn't help me learn nml + cpp
14:23<andythenorth>I have to learn nml + cpp because that's what FIRS is written in
14:23<andythenorth>the only reason I'm trying to force BANDIT into this shape is because I have to learn how
14:23<@Alberth>just use m4 instead of cpp :)
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if you want to use my generator, you probably have to come up with a (demo) table, then replace FEAT_TRAINS everywhere, and weed out some implicit assumptions that i have about my own table
14:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: does your generator doing anything complex?
14:24<andythenorth>I don't need complex
14:25<andythenorth>all the switches and such are nml written out longhand, with cpp for values
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>the two complex things are the graphics switches and the articulation
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>everything else is simply looping over all vehicles
14:25<andythenorth>is it easy to call from the makefile?
14:25<andythenorth>that scares me :P
14:26<andythenorth>if I change the makefile, I have to maintain it
14:26<andythenorth>currently other people do that for me ;)
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>we have local custom Makefile that is separate from the normal makefile, you can just update the rest without any changes
14:26<Snail_>andythenorth: this sounds so complex to me... you'd have to use m4, cpp and then nml... with m4nfo you'd skip the two last steps (well, you'd have to rewrite FIRS in m4nfo, but that wouldn't be so complex)
14:27<@Alberth>using cpp after m4 is madness
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: nothing scary in the makefile
14:27<frosch123>noone knows m4nfo, so how to judge the conversion from nml to m4nfo?
14:27<@Alberth>just use m4 for everything
14:28<andythenorth>using m4 doesn't help me learn how FIRS works ;)
14:28<@Alberth>and a python code generator does? :o
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>unlikely :)
14:28<frosch123>making eddi do the work helps quite well
14:29<Snail_>m4nfo is quite well documented though
14:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r23812 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#4977] (r23804): custom ActionB messages were broken
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>i have never actually seen it...
14:30<Snail_>there is a online manual that explains a lot
14:30<andythenorth>MB mailed me about it recently :)
14:30<andythenorth>he was wondering if I would adopt it
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>you rather need m4nml though :)
14:30<andythenorth>I could switch HEQS to m4nfo to learn it
14:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r23813 /trunk/src/lang/ (53 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: fix other language files
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14:31<andythenorth>Alberth: anyway, yes m4 looked interesting + readable. I wondered if it would get too complex when there are a lot of statements
14:31<andythenorth>it was nice and easy in the example you sent
14:31<@Alberth>Snail_: <- start of m4nml :)
14:31<Snail_>I think it would be a good idea ;) m4nfo is very powerful and MB is always helpful... also, my set gets compiled in about 2 seconds (it's got about 16,000 sprites)
14:31<@Alberth>andythenorth: only one way to find out :)
14:33<@Yexo><Snail_> andythenorth: this sounds so complex to me... you'd have to use m4, cpp and then nml... with m4nfo you'd skip the two last steps (well, you'd have to rewrite FIRS in m4nfo, but that wouldn't be so complex) <- actually that is very complex
14:33<andythenorth>I've probably learnt about as much cpp from BANDIT as I can. I've learnt (1) cpp is limited for this case (2) don't try and make a templating language do general purpose code generation
14:33<@Yexo>nml is more powerful than m4nfo in for example automatically assigning temporary registers for advanced sprite layouts
14:33<@Yexo>m4nfo doesn't support that
14:34<Snail_>what do you mean by temporary registers? like temporary variables?
14:34<@Yexo>var 7D and related operators
14:35<andythenorth>for vehicle sets, nml also offers a compelling way to handle tedious things like properties in buy menu
14:35<andythenorth>and the switch expressions are laughably trivial to use
14:35<Snail_>Yexo: yep m4nfo can do that to
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14:35<Snail_>MB proposed that to me some time ago, but I didn't use it because it didn't fit my needs
14:35<andythenorth>Yexo: I know you're not planning to change it, but I hate that identifiers have to be globally unique
14:35<Snail_>but he told me about those 256 registers
14:36<andythenorth>I'm so used to templating where the chain is effectively scoped locally to the vehicle
14:36-!-perk11 [~perk11@] has joined #openttd
14:36<Snail_>and the fact that they are globally unique is exactly the reason why I didn't use them ;)
14:36<@Yexo>Snail_: can you write a spritelayout like this in m4nfo?
14:36<@planetmaker>it's just a matter of proper code to also template NML locally, andythenorth
14:37<@Yexo>andythenorth: the THIS_ID() macro solves that nicely, so I still don't see the problem
14:37<andythenorth>planetmaker: that would mean abandoning CPP
14:37<andythenorth>it's the wrong tool for that problem
14:37<@Alberth>andythenorth: if you want another example, I can do that
14:37<@Yexo>you define it once for every vehicle and use it in all templates
14:37<Snail_>well, this is to build industries... I never used m4nfo for that
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14:38<@planetmaker>andythenorth: it may not be the ideal one, but it suits 99% I ever wanted to template
14:38<@planetmaker>it's a matter of using it properly. You must simply let go the idea to re-create the nfo templates 1:1 for NML
14:38<@planetmaker>*that* does not work
14:38<@Yexo>Snail_: I'm not trying to argue against m4nfo, it's a powerful tool and really fast. However nml can abstract some more complex parts away that m4nfo can't
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>well, everything that andythenorth currently struggles with i solved in python...
14:39<@planetmaker>is there actually *anywhere* this mystical m4nfo?
14:39<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I would hope so :)
14:39<@Alberth>no the actual macros
14:39<@Yexo>there is also a topic on
14:39<Snail_>Yexo: yep, perhaps for industries... I don't know about those. But as for trains, so far there was nothing I had in mind that m4nfo couldn't do (and believe me my ideas are quite complex ;) )
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: he meant the actual program to download
14:40<andythenorth>bah frames :?
14:40<Snail_>well, m4nfo is made of modules, there are some text files you have to download
14:40<@planetmaker>yes, that's also there, Eddi|zuHause
14:40<Snail_>then everything is ran through "make"
14:41*andythenorth wonders what the conclusion is
14:41<andythenorth>try more m4?
14:41<frosch123>Snail_: does it supports terms like "5 + (2*varA + 5*varB)"?
14:41<@Yexo>Snail_: vehicles are (in nfo) one of the easiest features
14:41<andythenorth>m4nfo vs. cppnfo I'm not bothered about .... cppnfo works for me
14:41<frosch123>or do you have to break it down to single computations with an accumulator?
14:41<andythenorth>I'm looking for an nml templating solution I guess
14:42<@Yexo>frosch123: you have to use temporary variables to compute that, which m4nfo won't do automatically
14:42<Snail_>frosch123: you have to break it down in "cases"
14:42<frosch123>hmm, i assume it cannot handle action6 either
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: sadly nml "templates" only cover realsprites
14:43<andythenorth>Alberth: can you use m4 to template the vehicle defines? :D I know it's insane...but it might just work...
14:43<andythenorth>from a .tsv
14:44<frosch123>i think the action6 stuff is the most useful feature of nml
14:44<@planetmaker>andythenorth: 75% of those defines are used one time: where the property is set
14:44<frosch123>it has never been easier to add parameters to grfs :)
14:44<@planetmaker>thus... why define it?
14:44<andythenorth>planetmaker: because 'one and only one way' applies
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if you want to experiment with my code generator, you should use the layout of this table as an example:
14:44<andythenorth>setting properties with both defines and nml is more work for my brain to parse
14:44<andythenorth>I know it's overly-abstracted, but I don't care :)
14:45<@Alberth>andythenorth: should work, I think
14:45<@planetmaker>well. you throw away the readability of NML, andythenorth
14:45<@Alberth>if not, you found something that cpp can do, and m4 cannot :)
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the important columns are "short name" (= THIS_ID), potentially "company" (would in your case mean "continent/region"), "ID#" and "Graphics"
14:45<andythenorth>planetmaker: readability was never my first goal (3 years of nfo...)
14:46<@planetmaker>ok, then don't complain about not understanding FIRS ;-)
14:46<Snail_>btw frosch123: I think your idea to add a variable that counts the number of vehicles with a certain bit pattern would be *very* useful
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: all other columns roughly correlate with the property of the same name
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14:46<Hirundo>Assuming the code you write is bug-free, then all code can be write-only ;-)
14:46<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you have epoch too ;)
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i don't think you actually need that :)
14:47<andythenorth>I used it to design the set
14:47<frosch123>Snail_: can you set up some examples?
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: read (company,epoch,set) as one column, defining the availability depending on parameter
14:47<@Alberth>andythenorth: is that bandit? 'Clipper' does not sound like truck :p
14:48<frosch123>i was wondering about a 60+x variable which gives a mask of bits to test, and a value to check
14:48<andythenorth>Alberth: made up names
14:48<Snail_>frosch123: ok, let's say my passenger coach have bit2 reserved for push-pull service: when bit2 is
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: our "epoch" vaguely correlates with the model railway "epoch"
14:48<frosch123>i.e. something like "number of vehicles with (user_data & MASK) == (VALUE & MASK)"
14:48<Snail_>when bit2 is "0", the wagon can't do push=pull, when it's "1", it can
14:49<Snail_>and I'd like to count the number of vehicles with a certain ID with bit2 set to "1"
14:49<andythenorth>Alberth: only slightly made up name:
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>Snail_: when the userbits are ORed, wouldn't it make sense to use "0" as "can" and "1" as "can't"?
14:49<andythenorth>Snail_: don't torture me with your mention of userbits :(
14:49*andythenorth forgot that openttd is a train game
14:50<@Alberth>I am only worried about find the right template files :)
14:50<frosch123>i am also wondering what to do with vehicles from other newgrfs
14:50<Snail_>yes but I'd also like to check if *all* the vehicles have the bit set to "0"
14:50<andythenorth>Alberth: actually I have an outstanding commit, that will trip you up if I don't do it...
14:50<frosch123>it is usually not useful to check for bits of unknown grfs, but it would make sense for add-on grfs with engine overrides
14:50<Snail_>another example: bit is set to "0" if the wagon can do local service, "1" if it's a long-distance one
14:51<Snail_>I'd need to check whether all vehicles have bit set to "0", or they all have it set to "1", or if it's a mixed consist
14:51<andythenorth>Snail_: stop mentioning these things :) Real coders handle that differently :P
14:51<andythenorth>forget you get bits, and do it the hard way :P
14:51<andythenorth>like I have to
14:52<andythenorth>by writing constants into advanced varaction 2 with CPP
14:52<Snail_>frosch123: I'd check for bits of my own grf's only
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'm fairly convinced it would be trivial to allow userbits for rv, too
14:52<Snail_>actually I'd check for bits only of vehicles with a certain ID
14:52<@Yexo>andythenorth: what Snail_ wants can't be solved that way
14:52<frosch123>Snail_: and if you make an add-on grf for your grf? :p
14:52<frosch123>ah, ok, filter for vehicles with certain id
14:53<frosch123>so, that's something very different
14:53<Snail_>frosch123: exactly, so other vehicles wouldn't be included in the check
14:53<frosch123>like OR user_data of all vehicles with ID x
14:53<@Yexo>I think two variables are in oder
14:53<andythenorth>Yexo: I might have been slightly trolling about rv bits :P
14:53<@Yexo>filter same grf and filter for some id
14:53<Snail_>frosch123: yes, but sometimes OR is not sufficient. I'd like to check whether a certain bit is "1" for all, "0" for all, or mixed
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>the easy solution would be to also allow "AND"
14:54<Snail_>Eddi|zuHause: even that would be useful
14:54<andythenorth> Alberth I pushed BANDIT
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>or "+", but that would need 64-bit result (8 times 8 bit)
14:55<@Yexo>all: use AND, 0 for all: NOT OR, mixed: AND and not OR
14:55<Snail_>I think allowing AND and OR would be sufficient
14:55<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: concating numbers is not + :p
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: a vector "+"
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>for each bit in the vector, you count the number of entries having this bit set
14:56<@Alberth>andythenorth: I should use that instead?
14:56<frosch123>anyway, counting matching vehicles is something very different to ORing the data of all vehicles matching some criterion
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>so for an 8-bit usermask, you get 8 integers
14:56<andythenorth>Alberth: yes, use repo tip
14:56<andythenorth>previous version had errors
14:56<andythenorth>would have wasted your time :o
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>where for precondition reasons you have a range of 0..255 for each integer
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>hence a 64bit result
14:57<Snail_>frosch123: so ORing and ANDing would be very different?
14:57<frosch123>Snail_: i am just collecting what variables are needed, what would be their parameters, and what their results :)
14:58<Snail_>thanks :)
14:58<andythenorth>frosch123: valid for RVs too?
14:58<frosch123>not in purchase list
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>AND and OR are trivially interchangable
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14:58<andythenorth>purchase list stuff has to be faked anyway
14:58<andythenorth>how many bits are there?
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>"+" (as in "count each bit") is slightly more complex
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>you can make counting a 60+ var
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>giving the bit as parameter
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>so you say "count vehicles having bit X set"
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>or potentially "count vehicles having both bit X and Y set"
15:00*andythenorth needs more like 256 bits :P
15:00<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i would give a mask and a value to check for
15:00<frosch123>like said above
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>three-way is a bit more problematic "count vehicles having bit X set, bit Y not set, others don't-care"
15:01<frosch123>so, currently i have: filter for specific user mask patterns, vehicle id, same grf. and as result: number of matching vehicles, OR mask
15:01<frosch123>i guess AND mask can be constructed from that
15:01<Snail_>frosch123: that would be great
15:01<andythenorth>planetmaker: possibly I've learnt enough about variadic macros to read FIRS now
15:02<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: check for (user_data & MASK) == (VALUE & MASK)
15:02<frosch123>and give VALUE and MASK via the parameters
15:02<frosch123>two 8 bit values
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes. "a bit more problematic" :)
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>not "unsolvable" :)
15:03<frosch123>it's standard :p
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>i know... i'm currently preparing for hardware design exam...
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>lots of three-way-logic in there :)
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15:14<andythenorth>objectively, has FIRS fallen victim to new system fallacy?
15:14<@planetmaker>as in convert and anbandon?
15:15<frosch123>andythenorth: just sleep an hour, and ask the question again
15:15<andythenorth>as in convert for good reasons, but rate of progress falls off dramatically
15:16<@planetmaker>yes... the main contributor contributes much less code ;-)
15:16<andythenorth>but one of the reasons we converted was to make it possible for others to work on it?
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>"work on" != "take over" :)
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15:18<@planetmaker>it's not like nothing new was added like 4/4 snow awareness or fences
15:18<@planetmaker>or easier translations
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>but not "economies" and stuff
15:23<andythenorth>some aspects are more maintainable. The bug we fixed this morning was trivial to find and resolve.
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15:24<andythenorth>by 'objectively' I mean, could we measure the number of commits / features against time for nfo / nml FIRS?
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that might also indicate that the project is "mature" :)
15:25<andythenorth>first 90% takes 10% of the time :P
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15:34<@Terkhen>such a measurement would prove what we already know, that the main contributor does not like working with nml :P
15:34<@Terkhen>besides that, I don't think it would be very relevant
15:36<andythenorth>it's nml like this that troubles me:
15:36<andythenorth>or this:
15:36<andythenorth>TILE_ALLOW_PLAYER (tile_player, THIS_ID(tile_nearby_industry))
15:37<@Terkhen>that's not nml, those are templates
15:37<@Terkhen>if they trouble you they can be changed or removed
15:37<@planetmaker>quite so
15:37<@planetmaker>though I dare say it's not more complicated than the nfo templates it used ;-)
15:37<andythenorth> every time this last week I've asked for help with cpp function, people have beaten me with sticks for using the wrong tool :D
15:37<@Terkhen>but... you can just think about them as procedures, I don't see the problem
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: these things are abstracted even more in my code generator :p
15:38<andythenorth>now I know they're variadic macros I might get on with them better
15:38<@planetmaker>indeed, those macros can be used as functions kind of
15:39<andythenorth>they are functions afaict
15:39<@planetmaker>they're a shortcut for a single switch
15:39<@Terkhen>or in some cases a chain of switches
15:39<@Terkhen>in which the only differences are the parameters of the macro
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16:00<appe_>im getting strange server errors when i play on my dedicated 1.1.5. a player (wan) connects, gets disconnected since it "takes more then 500 ticks" for him to join
16:00<appe_>otherwise, both our connections are more then adequate, and an hour ago we played without problems.
16:00<appe_>suggestions? :)
16:00<@Alberth>increase the time out?
16:00<appe_>what is the command?
16:01<@planetmaker>appe_: you really should know it by now... rcon pw "set xy value"
16:01<@planetmaker>look into your openttd.cfg to find out what xy actually is
16:01<@planetmaker>an educated guess for a search will bring you there
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16:06<appe_>thank you
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16:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23814 /trunk/src/core/random_func.cpp: -Codechange: write the random-debug output directly to a file
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16:30<andythenorth>planetmaker: Terkhen so in something like TILE_ALLOW_PLAYER (tile_player, THIS_ID(tile_nearby_industry))
16:30<andythenorth>is the whitespace significant, or accident?
16:31<@planetmaker>it's insignificant but intended
16:31<@planetmaker>for alignment issues
16:32<andythenorth>and to find what these expand to, I grep the project, which is kind of fine
16:33<@planetmaker>templates/ somewhere
16:33<andythenorth>"TILE_ALLOW_PLAYER" I would read as something that inserted a tile, rather than a switch, but that's not very important
16:33<andythenorth>constant names that work multi-lingual, multi-person are .... hard
16:34<@planetmaker>it allows the player to place the tile there. ID is THIS_ID(tile_player) and the next switch to branch to is THIS_ID(tile_nearby_industry)
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16:34<@planetmaker>thus these tile checks all are like
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16:35<andythenorth>I can see a pattern to them now
16:35<@planetmaker>TEMPLATE_NAME( switchname, if-true-switch, if-false-switch)
16:35<@planetmaker>the latter is not in this particular one
16:35<@planetmaker>as its always then "DISALLOW"
16:36<@planetmaker>I actually tried to document them very well
16:36<@planetmaker>in the template file
16:37<@planetmaker>it's in sprites/nml/templates/tile_location.pnml
16:37<andythenorth>hmm, that define is inserting the result of a variadic macro, which I couldn't figure out for BANDIT in less than about 4 loc
16:37<andythenorth>but nvm
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16:53<andythenorth>planetmaker: I can't see any better alternative to the spritelayout templates
16:53<andythenorth>in nfo FIRS they were all written out by hand, which is limited
16:53<andythenorth>robust, but limited
16:53<andythenorth>it was often the most tedious part of coding
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17:03<@Terkhen>good night
17:04<andythenorth>bye Terkhen
17:05<@Alberth>I must go to bed now
17:05<@Alberth>good night all
17:05<andythenorth>bye :)
17:06<@Alberth>the THIS_VEHICLE_ID magic is playing havoc, and I need to setup some sane naming conventions :)
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17:09*andythenorth reads m4
17:12<frosch123>`m4´ has the most weird quotes by default
17:25<andythenorth>good night
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19:48<welshdragon>can I change the settings for the pathfinder to look 3 signal blocks ahead (instead of one)?
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20:22<kais58>will 1.2 (probably) be released before 7th feb by any chance?
20:24<welshdragon>think about this logically
20:24<welshdragon>when do the devs usually do relases?
20:27<welshdragon>... significant holidays in the year
20:27<kais58>looks like monthly...
20:29<welshdragon>when was 1.2 beta 1 released?
20:29<kais58>xmas eve
20:30<welshdragon>yes, right, so Christmas, now, from that theory, what's the next big public holiday?
20:31<welshdragon>we have a winner
20:32<kais58>in that case openttd may not have a package in F17 at release
20:32<kais58>not immediatly anyway
20:32<welshdragon>Fedora 17 will use the last available stable (1.1.3), as will *buntu
20:33<kais58>last stable is 1.1.5 is it not?
20:33<welshdragon>yes, sorry, my eyes are bad
20:33<kais58>but, no it wont, as 1.1.3 and 1.1.5 fail to build on gcc-4.7
20:34<welshdragon>then maybe use an older version of gcc?
20:36<welshdragon>and secondly, has a bug been raised on the Bug Tracker?
20:37<welshdragon>(as the devs will be unaware of this issue if it is not reported)
20:38<kais58>not yet, I'm still poking, seeing if trunk worked and it just finished and no, r23810 doesnt build with gcc-4.7, thought it was working, going to file a bug report imminently
20:41<welshdragon>OK, maybe try to find an old version of GCC too
20:41<kais58>umm, think i can do, give me a few mins
20:43<kais58>though I know it works fine on F16 with gcc 4.6.2
20:43<kais58>also, who deals with the account merging, mine is still broken from then?
20:44<welshdragon>TrueBrain i think (for OpenTTD)
20:44<kais58>yeah, openttd
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21:18<kais58>maybe trunk does work, not 1.1.3 though
21:22<kais58>the src/ai/api docs were removed?
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21:45<Eddi|zuHause><welshdragon> can I change the settings for the pathfinder to look 3 signal blocks ahead (instead of one)? <-- "look ahead" in what sense?
21:48<Eddi|zuHause><kais58> also, who deals with the account merging, mine is still broken from then? <-- afair all unmerged accounts have been deleted recently... so better make a new account
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21:55<kais58>still complains at me that I need to merge it
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21:57<Eddi|zuHause>what's with the netsplits tonight?
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 16 00:00:59 2012