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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-10-20

---Logopened Sat Oct 20 00:00:52 2012
00:05<Supercheese>goldobsidian: "the AFKness of 105 people is astonishing"
00:05<Supercheese>You must be new to IRC ;)
00:10<Supercheese>(oops, didn't read he left)
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00:11<Supercheese>ChatZilla has weird text colors for that, hmm
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00:43<BadBrett>are you working on any new projects?
00:43<Supercheese>slowly but surely yes
00:44<Supercheese>I had a Thermodynamics exam today, so I haven't had time to do much else
00:46<BadBrett>i saved that one for ~3 years :)
00:48<BadBrett>how did it go?
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00:51<Supercheese>I felt really good about it, I predict I'll get 95-100%
00:52<Supercheese>strangely, I'm having a much harder time in Circuits than I am in thermo
00:52<Supercheese>(waaaay off-topic :P )
00:53<BadBrett>95-100%!? are you an ultra-nerd or are your exams super easy? :
00:53<BadBrett>(or maybe i just don't understand your system)
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00:56<BadBrett>all those stupid cycles... the carnot cycle, the stirling cycle... how many can there be?
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01:45<Scottyob>Howdy, quick question
01:46<Scottyob>I'm farming out an oil rig, then someone else sees this is where a lot of my income is coming from, so goes and mines it out from underneath me
01:46<Scottyob>is there a way to "claim" mines in the game?
01:46<Scottyob>or purchase?
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02:03<Eddi|zuHause>some servers forbid this though, so ask an admin/moderator whether this is the case
02:07<Scottyob>Eddi|zuHause, ah it was just a friendly game against my brother, no server/admin :P
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02:09<DanMacK>Morning/Evening all
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02:13<Rubidium>evening DanMacK
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02:20<__ln__>should we decide "GMT only"
02:21<__ln__>besides English only
02:25-!-andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:7935:6b6e:3059:75da] has joined #openttd
02:28<DanMacK>Hey Andy
02:33<Eddi|zuHause>i doubt that would find a consensus
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02:43<Supercheese>As long as we don't use that sill @time thing
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02:45<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:50<andythenorth>lo Terkhen
02:53<__ln__>Supercheese: good @329 to you too
02:54<Supercheese>I don't understand the difference between that and GMT. They both choose an arbitrary datum state, no?
02:54<Supercheese>Perhaps more concise to say @something rather than GMT something
02:58<TyrHeimdal>morning :)
02:59<TyrHeimdal>question: Is there a way to get trains on a sideline to accelerate and fit into a slot big enough for it on a main line?
03:07<Rubidium>TyrHeimdal: yes
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03:07<TyrHeimdal>Rubidium: could you please point me in the right direction? :)
03:07<Rubidium>TyrHeimdal: (but probably read the whole page)
03:10<V453000>also note that in 99% cases it is more viable to add another line instead ;)
03:10<V453000>using trains with reasonable acceleration is a solution as well
03:11<V453000>another option is pre-accelerated priority
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03:13<TyrHeimdal>I'll look into these
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03:53<andythenorth>optional function parameters....a saving grace, or work of the devil?
03:53<BadBrett>andy... what variable to you recommend to prevent industries (such as fishing harbour) to be built in lakes?
03:54<andythenorth>ah, that's really hard
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03:54<andythenorth>a 'lake' is just a small sea right?
03:55<BadBrett>i was thinking of setting a certain distance from the map edge
03:55<BadBrett>doesn't FIRS do this?
03:56<@Terkhen>that would break fishing harbours on island maps
03:57<andythenorth>use the magic 'clear water tile' tile in your industry layout
03:57<andythenorth>it's 0xFF iirc
03:57<andythenorth>and will have an equivalent constant in nml
03:57<andythenorth>look at FIRS industry code for examples
03:57<BadBrett>will do
03:57<BadBrett>how does it work?
03:57<andythenorth>it's in the newgrf wiki somewhere
03:57<andythenorth>under industry tiles probably
03:58*andythenorth biab
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04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>in git how do i fetch a diff on my local commits?
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>aka i have orgin/head
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>and master
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>with 2 personal diffs between
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>and i want the diffs so i can post them
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>is there a fast way to generate them?
04:05<ZxBiohazardZx>nvm i think i got them
04:08<ZxBiohazardZx> :)
04:08<ZxBiohazardZx>git generated .patches
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04:12<Supercheese>g'night all
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04:13<@Terkhen>ZxBiohazardZx: 0003 looks like it needs some savegame conversion for older games, otherwise you are turning "quarters" into "months" for older games
04:14<ZxBiohazardZx>@Terkhen aha and how do i add that?
04:14<@Terkhen>and the comment for months_of_bankruptcy in 0003 is mentioning "quarters" still
04:14<ZxBiohazardZx>also doesnt the oldloader thing fix that?
04:14<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz let me see
04:14<@Terkhen>ZxBiohazardZx: the savegame handling code fixes old savegames, as long as you code the necessary changes for it to do so :)
04:15<ZxBiohazardZx>no clue if i updated it correctly, i did update oldloader and something else in saveload
04:15<ZxBiohazardZx>see 0003
04:15<@Terkhen>you need to bump the savegame version, and add a IsSavegameVersionBefore check to afterload.cpp (see others already present for example)
04:16<@Terkhen>to my knowledge, oldloader is only for TTD savegames
04:17<ZxBiohazardZx>reposted 0003, now with correct comment
04:17<ZxBiohazardZx>saveload/afterload.cpp right?
04:19<ZxBiohazardZx>ok and there i just do something like
04:20<ZxBiohazardZx>if(IsSavegameVersionBefore(version) {FOR_ALL_COMPANIES (c){ c->months_of_bankruptcy = 0; } }
04:20<ZxBiohazardZx>aka just reset bankruptcy statistics on saveload
04:20<TyrHeimdal>It's facinating to watch the map with the vechile overlay on only as you send all trains to depot
04:20<ZxBiohazardZx>or actually convert the values?
04:20<TyrHeimdal>need to switch to maglev trakcs
04:20<ZxBiohazardZx>aka if quarters_of_bankruptcy = 0 then set months=0, if 1 then months=3, if 2 then months=6 etc?
04:21<@Terkhen>ZxBiohazardZx: it would need to convert the values, yes
04:22<ZxBiohazardZx>so switch based or just 3 ifs (case4 cant be saved for its just a declare)
04:22<ZxBiohazardZx>also where should the if be placed (bottom or random?)
04:22<ZxBiohazardZx>they are not quite in line for me :P
04:24<@Terkhen>I don't remember how afterload is organized, check if it is split on parts (vehicle, companies and so on), if not, at the bottom
04:25<ZxBiohazardZx>nah it seems just random so ill put on bottom
04:25<ZxBiohazardZx>just a question
04:25<ZxBiohazardZx>we have old/new variables ofc
04:26<ZxBiohazardZx>so would if(c->quarters_of_bankruptcy=1){c->months_of_bankruptcy=3} work?
04:26<ZxBiohazardZx>or do i have to add new variables to convert shit?
04:28<@Terkhen>no, it does not have the old variables; you renamed quarters_of_bankruptcy to months_of_bankruptcy, therefore, for old savegames you will have a months_of_bankruptcy variable that contains the old value, which is in quarters
04:28<@Terkhen>so months_of_bankruptcy = months_of_bankruptcy * 3
04:29<ZxBiohazardZx>ah ofc
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04:29<ZxBiohazardZx>and how do i set savegameversion?
04:30<ZxBiohazardZx>aka how do i get my magic number?
04:30<@Terkhen>check saveload.cpp
04:30<@Terkhen>it's at the beginning
04:30<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth_
04:30<ZxBiohazardZx>lol gg comment there fails
04:30<ZxBiohazardZx>afterload.cpp contains is before 177
04:30<andythenorth_>Eh? Reddit have an openttd irc channel
04:30<ZxBiohazardZx>comment lists to 176 :P
04:31<ZxBiohazardZx>extern const uint16 SAVEGAME_VERSION = 176; ///< Current savegame version of OpenTTD.
04:31*andythenorth_ is in a long queue at post office
04:31<ZxBiohazardZx> if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(177)) {
04:31<ZxBiohazardZx> /* Fix too high inflation rates */
04:31<ZxBiohazardZx>why do we have IsBefore 177 where current is set to 176
04:31<ZxBiohazardZx>that if is always applied?:P
04:32<@Terkhen>ZxBiohazardZx: it is a fix that prevents an overflow on inflation, savegames with 176 can have it if they are from before the fix
04:32<@Terkhen>doing that check does not hurt if the game is not bugged, and therefore the savegame version wasn't bumped
04:33<@Terkhen>as soon as it is bumped, you can be sure that savegames with 177 do not have the bug, because they are from after the fix
04:34<ZxBiohazardZx>ah ok
04:34<ZxBiohazardZx>so i can add 177, but what value should the revisionid in comment be?
04:35<ZxBiohazardZx>or will devs set it when it gets accepted?
04:35<ZxBiohazardZx>also if mine is 177 then i check with IsSavegameVersionBefore(177) or (178) ?:P
04:35<@Terkhen>write ToDo or something like that, you can't know the revision beforehand
04:36<andythenorth_>How many ships is too many? :p
04:36<@Terkhen>andythenorth_: ship models or ships in the same map?
04:36<@Terkhen>I don't know then :P
04:37<andythenorth_>Dan is drawing really nice graphics for different variations of same ship
04:37<andythenorth_>But each has to be a model in buy menu
04:38<andythenorth_>Lots of ships...
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04:38<@Terkhen>and lot of refits if you make them "variants" :P
04:38<andythenorth_>Same issue i guess yes
04:39<@Terkhen>I wonder if we should split refitting in two: "cargo carried" and "current vehicle model"
04:39<@Terkhen>the latter would need additional NewGRF support, of course
04:39<andythenorth_>I want to
04:39<andythenorth_>Use the user bits and add a gui
04:39<ZxBiohazardZx>updated it
04:40<ZxBiohazardZx>can you verify if i didnt fuckup there?
04:40<andythenorth_>Use same for liveries
04:40<andythenorth_>And regearing etc
04:41<@Terkhen>andythenorth_: it sounds feasible, but it smells like the kind of feature which has hidden problems somewhere, so I may be missing some obvious issue :P
04:41<andythenorth_>Most things have that :)
04:41<@Terkhen>ZxBiohazardZx: it does not look obviously wrong
04:42<@Terkhen>andythenorth_: do userbits have other use cases? I remember reading about them but I don't remember any practical usage
04:42<andythenorth_>Can't be worse than subtypes :)
04:43<ZxBiohazardZx>thx Terkhen then ill leave it there for review / implementation :)
04:43<@Terkhen>you are welcome
04:43<andythenorth_> User bits are 1 arbitrary and 2 only implemented for trains
04:44-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
04:44-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
04:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by terkhen :: r24615 trunk/src/station_gui.cpp (2012-10-20 08:44:07 UTC)
04:44<@DorpsGek>-Feature [FS#5311]: Sort cargo filter by cargo name/label at the company stations window (sbr)
04:44<@Terkhen>hi Alberth :)
04:44<@Alberth>planetmaker: thanks for the advertisement :)
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04:48<andythenorth_>Ah the challenge for user bits idea or similar is setting them for imdividual vehicles in a consist
04:48<@Terkhen>andythenorth_: adapting userbits do not sound like the good solution to me
04:49<@Terkhen>IMO it would be better to design a new mechanism which is created just for this new feature
04:49<ZxBiohazardZx>lets see if i have more fun suggestions that i can try to code :P
04:50<@Terkhen>even if such mechanism is just a byte which can be set by OpenTTD when refitting
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04:52<andythenorth_>Quite possibly
04:52<@Terkhen>the vehicles could have a "num_models" property, which describes how many models the vehicle can be refitted to, and a "current_model" value that is set by OpenTTD; if (num_models <= 1) then the vehicle would not have any model refitting
04:53<@Terkhen>a thing that worries me is the possible "hacky" usages of this :P
04:54<ZxBiohazardZx>epicly obvious yet not impelented :P
04:54<ZxBiohazardZx>if you take a screenshot its dumped in \OTTD
04:54<ZxBiohazardZx>why not \OTTD\screenshot
04:56<@Alberth>bye Terkhen
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05:04<ZxBiohazardZx>stupid Screenshot.cpp
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05:05<ZxBiohazardZx>static char _screenshot_name[128]; ///< Filename of the screenshot file.
05:05<ZxBiohazardZx>char _full_screenshot_name[MAX_PATH]; ///< Pathname of the screenshot file.
05:05<ZxBiohazardZx>char is string here?
05:06<ZxBiohazardZx>ah nvm ofc it is, its array of chars :P
05:10<ZxBiohazardZx>Construct a pathname for a screenshot file... blegh its not adding the directory struct unless that is in params im missing
05:14<ZxBiohazardZx>is SaveLoad used just for savegames or also for saving screenshots?
05:15<ZxBiohazardZx>aka i cant find where screenshot.cpp gets the path info from
05:15<andythenorth>so model numbers would have problems
05:15<andythenorth>consistency across autoreplace etc
05:15<andythenorth>a unique set of labels, per-grf might be better
05:16<andythenorth>similar to railtypes, cargo labels etc
05:17<andythenorth>gui only allows to select betwen available variants, per vehicle, in depot only
05:17<ZxBiohazardZx>const char *name is passed each time, that should either include full path or partial name of some kind :(
05:18<andythenorth>autoreplace will maintain variant label if available, otherwise uses default variant
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05:21<ZxBiohazardZx>ok it sounded easier then it looks
05:21<ZxBiohazardZx>i simply cant find where it fetches the path for screenshots :(
05:23<ZxBiohazardZx>sup frosch123
05:23<ZxBiohazardZx>feel like helping me out on a newbie thingy again?
05:24<ZxBiohazardZx>basically make screenshots save in \OTTD\screenshots instead of just dumping it into \OTTD
05:24<frosch123>if you have a short question, yes. but i won't be able to follow irc for a longer period of time :)
05:24*andythenorth wonders if label-based vehicle variants are just a new flavour of total madness
05:24<ZxBiohazardZx>well i cant find where we fetch the file-path in the screenshot.cpp code
05:24<ZxBiohazardZx>everything seems to be passed to functions, but it never gives a path location or where to put the file
05:25<ZxBiohazardZx>only name i see is the default_fn (default filename)
05:25<ZxBiohazardZx>but that again isnt a path-info
05:25<ZxBiohazardZx>char _full_screenshot_name[MAX_PATH]; ///< Pathname of the screenshot file. seems to be the variable containing path
05:26<ZxBiohazardZx>ah i see
05:26<ZxBiohazardZx>so just add /screenshots there?
05:26<ZxBiohazardZx>aka _personal_dir/screenshots would work?
05:26<frosch123>how do the other things like "baseset" and "newgrf" do it?
05:27<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz ill check, good question
05:27<frosch123>do they hardcode those things, or are there configure options?
05:27<ZxBiohazardZx>ill check
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05:30<ZxBiohazardZx> * @param subdir The sub directory to find the NewGRF in.
05:31<ZxBiohazardZx>void LoadNewGRFFile(void LoadNewGRFFile(GRFConfig *config, uint file_index, GrfLoadingStage stage, Subdirectory subdir)
05:31<ZxBiohazardZx>so its passed in some way
05:32<ZxBiohazardZx>Subdirectory subdir = slot == file_index ? BASESET_DIR : NEWGRF_DIR;
05:32<ZxBiohazardZx>so i guess copy-paste that for screenshots?
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05:34<@Terkhen>andythenorth: sounds complicated... autorenew could use the same model number, autoreplace would ignore model number and just use the first model of the target vehicle that can be refitted to the current cargo
05:35<andythenorth>Terkhen: hmm
05:35<ZxBiohazardZx>also if you change it then snprintf needs to accept another param
05:35<andythenorth>I think complicated might be what is needed :o
05:36<andythenorth>subtypes is number based, and fails quite horribly in several cases :)
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05:38<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I don't know if making a label scheme that works in all cases is even possible :P
05:39<ZxBiohazardZx>how "flexible" are the "BaseSet" and "NewGrf" dir anyway
05:39<ZxBiohazardZx>they are still hardcoded somewhere in code afaik
05:40<@Alberth>there is some code to find the base path afaik, to do what the readme explains
05:41<ZxBiohazardZx>well ALberth i want to add OTTD\Screenshots
05:41<andythenorth>Terkhen: try and imagine some failure cases :)
05:41<ZxBiohazardZx>to put screenshots there
05:41<ZxBiohazardZx>instead of littering the "default" folder
05:41<andythenorth>I think train consists are very hard for this idea of variants
05:41<andythenorth>especially mixed newgrfs
05:41<@Alberth>there are several folders
05:42<@Alberth>you have to decide in which base path to put it, probably along the lines of where the savegames get stored
05:42<@Terkhen>andythenorth: you have a ship with a "tank" model, you try to autoreplace it for another ship which only has a "container" model; the new model can carry the cargo you want but the labels do not match
05:43<andythenorth>in that case default to first in list
05:43<andythenorth>there's no guarantee to maintain the label, only if they match
05:43<andythenorth>I would keep this 100% decoupled from refittable cargo btw ;)
05:43<ZxBiohazardZx>Albert screenshots dont have anything but _personal_dir defined
05:43<ZxBiohazardZx>so do i just add /screenshots there
05:44<ZxBiohazardZx>or do we want it configureable and maybe even add it to saveload?
05:45<@Alberth>I don't want to know where you store your screenshots :)
05:45<@Terkhen>andythenorth: do you mean that "all models should be refittable to the same cargos"?
05:45<@Alberth>quite likely your path does not even exist at my machine ;)
05:45<andythenorth>Terkhen: no
05:46<@Terkhen>because that would simplify things, a lot :P
05:46<andythenorth>how does autoreplace currently handle replacing when existing cargo isn't refittable
05:46<ZxBiohazardZx>Alberth it currently just puts them all in _personal_dir
05:46<andythenorth>I guess it fails with message?
05:46<ZxBiohazardZx>aka default \OTTD
05:47<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I have no idea :)
05:47<ZxBiohazardZx>instead i want it to save to _personal_dir\subdir
05:47<ZxBiohazardZx>similar to how we dont put all newgrfs in OTTD i want to put screenshots in their own folder
05:47<@Alberth>ZxBiohazardZx: yep, you've told that a few times already :)
05:47<@planetmaker>good morning
05:47<@Alberth>moin planetmaker
05:47<ZxBiohazardZx>but current code doesnt allow that, thus my question is: how to implement a subdir correctly in code :P
05:47<ZxBiohazardZx>also heya planetmaker
05:48<@Alberth>and you think I know that? :)
05:49<@Alberth>we also mostly look at existing art, and decide whether that is good enough to re-use
05:49<@planetmaker>:-) yeah. When I have a question about "how should I do", the answer often is "look like we did with ..."
05:49<ZxBiohazardZx>Alberth true, but lets say i cant paint, but ill try to draw something that might be a piece of art in 100 years or so
05:50<@Alberth>that sounds ambitious :)
05:50<ZxBiohazardZx>Subdirectory subdir = slot == file_index ? BASESET_DIR : NEWGRF_DIR;
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05:50<ZxBiohazardZx>its like abracadabra :P
05:51<@Alberth>never seen the ?: operator before?
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05:51<frosch123>ZxBiohazardZx: fileio.cpp has a table "_subdirs"
05:52<frosch123>there the paths for the various XXX_DIR are specified
05:52<@planetmaker>if slot == file_index then subdir = BASESET_DIR else subdir = NEWGRF_DIR
05:52<frosch123>i guess you need a new SCREENSHOT_DIR enum item, an entry in the table
05:52<frosch123>and then make the fileio stuff give you the path
05:52<ZxBiohazardZx>ah ok so its fileio
05:53<frosch123>FioGetFullPath and stuff
05:53<ZxBiohazardZx>also planet i updated the bankruptcy patch, should be done
05:53<frosch123>but you should really get a machine with some kind of grep :)
05:55<@Alberth>no really, that's the best way to look for things
05:55<@planetmaker>That was an honest suggestion ;-)
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05:56<ZxBiohazardZx>i know, i think notepad++ can search dirs for words
05:56<ZxBiohazardZx>but ill get a linux on the side
05:57<@Terkhen>you can install grep for windows from gnuwin32
05:58<@Terkhen>there is also stuff like grepwin, which is integrated with windows interface
06:00<@Terkhen>andythenorth: <-- IMO you need to dredge the river to build a canal, yes
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06:12<ZxBiohazardZx>probably far from correct, but its my first shot :P
06:15<@Alberth>Subdirectory subdir = slot == file_index ? SCREENSHOT_DIR; <-- that trivially fails to compile
06:18<ZxBiohazardZx>lemmy try to setup my VS10 for it
06:18<ZxBiohazardZx>and check
06:18<@planetmaker>you should compile-test your patches before you post them ;-)
06:18<@planetmaker>at least
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06:19<ZxBiohazardZx>its in suggestions
06:20<ZxBiohazardZx>and i warned you of my crappyness :P
06:20<LordAro>mornings all
06:20<@planetmaker>'lo LordAro
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06:20<@planetmaker>hm, compiling with just -j makes my machine behave sluggish :-P
06:21<ZxBiohazardZx>lemmy google on how to compile/generate VS10 solution
06:22<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz no guide on Microsoft Visual C++ 10 full?
06:23<@planetmaker>I believe that there's a guide on MSVC in the wiki. Which applies to MSVC 10 as well
06:24<@Alberth>planetmaker: you need more processors :p
06:24<ZxBiohazardZx>hmhm ill use the 2008 one
06:25<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, but you read the wiki page, yes?
06:25<@Terkhen>ZxBiohazardZx: <-- this one is for 2010, I linked to the part that is different between 2008 and 2010
06:26<ZxBiohazardZx>yes im on wiki
06:26<ZxBiohazardZx>can you add that page to the list ont he main wiki?
06:26<ZxBiohazardZx>but htx
06:26<@planetmaker>search functions are also available in the wiki ;-)
06:26<@Terkhen>no, because I have no idea if it is updated or correct :)
06:27<@planetmaker> is also there
06:27<@Terkhen>the person who created that tutorial never finished it, I don't know if it is right or wrong; I use MinGW instead
06:27<@Terkhen>oh, it is? nice :P
06:27<ZxBiohazardZx>well i have VS 10 full
06:27<ZxBiohazardZx>for trinitycore
06:27<ZxBiohazardZx>same for cmake and some other shit
06:27<ZxBiohazardZx>but yeah ill try to get it working :P
06:28<@planetmaker>we could rename the page...
06:29<ZxBiohazardZx>for msvc do i just need headers/librairies for MsVC or also the sources of usefull-4.2
06:31<ZxBiohazardZx>Now you need to tell Visual C++ where the files are located. In Visual C++ Express 2008, navigate to Tools > Options > Projects and Solutions > VC++ Directories:
06:31<ZxBiohazardZx>ow nvm
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06:33<ZxBiohazardZx>yeah its not completely correct
06:34<ZxBiohazardZx>i assume i load \trunk\projects\openttd_vs100.vcxproj ? or openttd_vs100.sln
06:34<ZxBiohazardZx>(does it matter?)
06:36<ZxBiohazardZx>Click the 'New Line' icon at the top, and add the folder <personal folder>\shared\include to the list.
06:36<ZxBiohazardZx>is that openttd-essentials or openttd-essentials sources
06:40<@planetmaker>ah, ZxBiohazardZx also configure your editor to not allow trailing white spaces
06:41<ZxBiohazardZx>========== Build: 5 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 1 skipped ==========
06:42<ZxBiohazardZx>ah my bad planet, i disabled them on last edit :P
06:42<ZxBiohazardZx>1 failed is the logical error you pointed out so i think i linked the right stuff
06:42<@planetmaker>why would one ever disable that (except when writing in whitespace :-P )?
06:43<ZxBiohazardZx>misclick whatever
06:43<ZxBiohazardZx>fatal error C1075: end of file found before the left brace '{' at 'd:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(481)' was matched
06:43<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz lemmy jsut revert back some changes i did before i recheck the works
06:43<@planetmaker>hm, so we just change the bancruptcy check to monthly instead of daily? Is that good enough?
06:44<ZxBiohazardZx>d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\gfx.cpp(303): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'unicode/ubidi.h': No such file or directory
06:44<ZxBiohazardZx>ok so i do lack some includes :(
06:45<ZxBiohazardZx>i think monthly check is good enough
06:45<ZxBiohazardZx>a real bank doesnt care if your negative on 1 day, as long as the month-statistics look ok
06:46<@Alberth>openttd bank is not a real bank :p
06:47<@Alberth>ZxBiohazardZx: By that notion, why is quartetly check not good then?
06:47<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, there's no point to add a 2nd check for IsSavegameVersionBefore(177) IMHO
06:47<@planetmaker>could be in the same if branch
06:48<@planetmaker>but maybe frosch123 has an idea whether we use a separate IsSavegameVersionBefore for each "item" or rather each "version"
06:48<frosch123>usually there is only one
06:49<frosch123>it's not about good or bad, it's about consistency
06:49<ZxBiohazardZx>Alberth old system didnt work nice on quarters, new system might, but someone proposed to make the check monthly
06:49<@planetmaker>yes, that's why I'd prefer that, too. Though... it's not in increasing savegame version there
06:49<ZxBiohazardZx>so if you get out of trouble in a non-quarter month you wont get screwed over
06:50<ZxBiohazardZx>7>d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\group_gui.cpp(514): warning C4018: '>' : signed/unsigned mismatch
06:50<@planetmaker>Alberth, the idea is that three failed checks on a random (=1st of quarter) day will send you bancrupt while you actually are doing good enough
06:50<ZxBiohazardZx>7>d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\road_cmd.cpp(798): warning C4800: 'RoadBits' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning)
06:50<ZxBiohazardZx>7>d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(2779): error C2601: 'ReloadNewGRFData' : local function definitions are illegal
06:50<ZxBiohazardZx>7> d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(481): this line contains a '{' which has not yet been matched
06:50<ZxBiohazardZx>7>d:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(2806): fatal error C1075: end of file found before the left brace '{' at 'd:\sourcecodes\ottd\trunk\src\saveload\afterload.cpp(481)' was matched
06:50<ZxBiohazardZx>meh ofc :P
06:50<@Alberth>planetmaker: yeah, but is 1st a month not equally random?
06:51<@planetmaker>yes. but it's 3x as often then
06:51<ZxBiohazardZx>wrong window :P
06:51<@planetmaker>which makes the issue less severe
06:51<@planetmaker>I'm not sure why ZxBiohazardZx didn't implement a daily check though. Or what the contra-indication to that would be
06:52<@planetmaker>I might have missed that part of discussion but would like to see that argument :-)
06:52<ZxBiohazardZx>well i didnt make it daily
06:52<ZxBiohazardZx>for the call was in a monthly loop anyway
06:53<ZxBiohazardZx>main reason
06:53<ZxBiohazardZx>its not impossible to make it daily, but how will that improve apart from causeing alot of flaggin, unflagging to happen (every red day flags you, every positive unflags you)
06:53<@planetmaker>nor did you make a higher interest on negative cash, right?
06:53<ZxBiohazardZx>also you would have to specify 9 months worth of days (31 days vs 30 days a month, 28 in feb) to actually declare bankrupt
06:54<ZxBiohazardZx>someone mentioned that the higher interest (3) was just to compensate for quarterly-status
06:54<ZxBiohazardZx>by making 1x rate on negative cash
06:54<ZxBiohazardZx>sitting on -10k is the same as having 10k loan
06:54<ZxBiohazardZx>so gameplaywise its valid
06:55<ZxBiohazardZx>if you want to add a penalty or even a difficulty setting then yeah ofc there are even more options
06:55<ZxBiohazardZx>see paste2 btw
06:55<ZxBiohazardZx>4 "issues" (not errors)
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06:55<@planetmaker>well. This way you still lower the difficulty: you don't have to watch money and will go bancrupt less quickly (as it's checked more often)
06:55<ZxBiohazardZx>missing } somewhere apparently
06:55<ZxBiohazardZx>planet i agree
06:56<ZxBiohazardZx>but by hardcoding a 2 or 3 in there its not making any sense
06:56<ZxBiohazardZx>and i didnt feel pro enough to make it a configurable difficulty setting or so :P
06:58<ZxBiohazardZx>as for your question for the IsSavegameVersion i dont see why 177 is on the older one, i bumped it to 177, so i think 176 would suffice there
06:58<ZxBiohazardZx>but yeah double if can be removed if you want
07:06<@planetmaker>nah, my point was, ZxBiohazardZx, that you add a 2nd IsSavegameVersionBefore(177) where we already have one
07:10<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, and I'm pretty sure you declare a company already bancrupt after 7 months now
07:11<ZxBiohazardZx>no i didnt change it compared to previous
07:11<ZxBiohazardZx>ow wait
07:11<@planetmaker>and you missed to update the comment
07:11<ZxBiohazardZx>0-1-2-3 is nothing
07:12<ZxBiohazardZx>4-5-6 is warn 7-8-9 offer others to buy you 10 = bankrupt
07:12<ZxBiohazardZx>ill check :P
07:12<ZxBiohazardZx>ill clean up that 3rd one a bit more, remove whitespaces, fix missing } etc
07:13<@planetmaker>on 7,8 and 9 you declare bancrupt. on 4,5 and 6 you issue a news message. Probably still saying quarterly or so. You want to adjust taht IMHO. And IMHO one message after 6 months suffices
07:14<@planetmaker>please test your patches :-)
07:14<ZxBiohazardZx>it only pops the message on 6
07:15<ZxBiohazardZx>ow wait 4 rollsinto 5 rolls into 6
07:15<ZxBiohazardZx>add a break after 5?
07:15<@planetmaker>which could be concatenated to just one after 5 (and none after 3)
07:16<@planetmaker>and possibly 7 and 8 could also just get the break
07:16<ZxBiohazardZx>so 7 8 break 9
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07:23<ZxBiohazardZx>so what about the other warnings i didnt introduce myself?
07:23<ZxBiohazardZx>line 1, 3, 10
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07:24<@planetmaker>you introduced the error in afterload
07:25<@planetmaker>you are missing a } somewhere there
07:28<ZxBiohazardZx>i fixed the }
07:28<ZxBiohazardZx>if lacked a } im compiling/checking now
07:28<ZxBiohazardZx>========== Rebuild All: 5 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 skipped ==========
07:28<ZxBiohazardZx>blegh fucking includes fail me somewhere
07:28<ZxBiohazardZx>no wait
07:28<ZxBiohazardZx>not this time
07:28<ZxBiohazardZx>7>..\src\music\dmusic.cpp(25): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmusici.h': No such file or directory
07:29<ZxBiohazardZx>that one still :(
07:29<ZxBiohazardZx>result of last build
07:30<ZxBiohazardZx>still the signed/unsigned, a forced bool and that missing include
07:30<frosch123>that's the direct music thingie
07:30<frosch123>it has been removed a view years ago from the ms sdk
07:30<frosch123>no idea whether ottd has an option to disable it, or whether we still recommend to use some older sdk
07:31<andythenorth>why do these fences flicker?
07:32<@planetmaker>bounding box, andythenorth ?
07:32<andythenorth>could be
07:32<@planetmaker>they need be building sprites
07:32<@planetmaker>not child to ground
07:32<andythenorth>possibly the extents are wrong
07:32<frosch123>or they extend over the tile's borders
07:32<@planetmaker>and the NE and NW need come before the actual building, the SW and SE after the actual building
07:34<andythenorth>it's either the fences have wrong bb
07:34<andythenorth>or the animated sprites for oil well have wrong bb
07:34<ZxBiohazardZx>frosh123 so how do i manually include it?
07:34<frosch123>no idea, i am not on windows
07:35<andythenorth>I've pushed FIRS with this flicker, it's on the oil wells
07:35<ZxBiohazardZx>build fails on it for me :(
07:35<frosch123> <- the wiki says you have to use the sdk from 2007
07:36<frosch123>as i said, no idea whether that is still the case
07:37<ZxBiohazardZx> Alternative: If you are willing to compile without support for MIDI music you will not be needing the DirectX SDK. To disable music, open the "openttd" project properties dialog and:
07:37<ZxBiohazardZx> Navigate to Configuration properties -> C/C++ -> Preprocessor -> Preprocessor Definitions and remove WIN32_ENABLE_DIRECTMUSIC_SUPPORT preprocessor definition.
07:41<andythenorth>below snowline fences aren't shown for oil well either
07:42*andythenorth can't read the code due to toddlers making buses
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07:48<ZxBiohazardZx>========== Build: 6 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 up-to-date, 1 skipped ==========
07:48<ZxBiohazardZx>7>..\src\road_cmd.cpp(798): warning C4800: 'RoadBits' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning)
07:48<ZxBiohazardZx>i didnt change it, but should that be fixed or ?
07:50<@Terkhen>it should be fixed, I'll check it since it is my code
07:51<ZxBiohazardZx>didnt pull latest but k
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07:52<ZxBiohazardZx>same for ..\src\group_gui.cpp(514): warning C4018: '>' : signed/unsigned mismatch
07:52<ZxBiohazardZx>anywayz lemmy update 0003
07:53<@Terkhen>ZxBiohazardZx: return ((bits & DiagDirToRoadBits(ReverseDiagDir(dir))) != 0); <--- does switching that line to this solve the road_cmd warning for you?
07:54<@Alberth>too many parentheses :)
07:55<@Alberth>but yeah, something like that
07:55*planetmaker likes rather one level of parentheses more to make order clear than one too little ;-)
07:55<@Alberth>around the entire expression?
07:56<@planetmaker>point :-)
07:56<@Terkhen>oh, true, the external pair was already there before my change, I'll remove it
07:57<ZxBiohazardZx>Terkhen lemmy check in a sec
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08:02<@Terkhen>I wonder about the group_gui error; all the values in that line are unsigned, maybe MSVC thinks that the addition of two unsigned values should be signed
08:06<@Alberth>think so too, uint16+uint16 -> int, int > uint --> warning
08:06<ZxBiohazardZx>maybe there is something like (unsigned )^2 or so int there
08:06<@Alberth>what I am wondering about is however whether the conversion to int is correct
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08:08<@Alberth>ahoy Wolf01
08:11<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
08:12<ZxBiohazardZx>updated bankruptcy patch, hope its up to codestandards now
08:12<Wolf01>I just tried cities XL 2012, looks like a more flexible sim city, I hope to be able to run a city for more than 2 years :P
08:13<Wolf01>'til now, the only sim/tycoon game I was able to play succesfully is TT :P
08:14<@Alberth>first simcity was also very easy imho
08:14<@planetmaker>hm, I don't bancrupt in single player?
08:14<@Alberth>could be, but I am not sure
08:15<ZxBiohazardZx>planetmaker i didnt change the code
08:15<@planetmaker>18 months passed with negative cash and max loan in 1.2.2
08:15<ZxBiohazardZx>no your right
08:15<ZxBiohazardZx>single player ignores it
08:15<ZxBiohazardZx>see code
08:16<@planetmaker>I got the warning after 6 months that I'll get sold off after 6 months, though.
08:16<ZxBiohazardZx> * is no THE-END, otherwise mark the client as spectator to make sure
08:16<ZxBiohazardZx> * he/she is no long in control of this company. However... when you
08:16<ZxBiohazardZx> * join another company (cheat) the "unowned" company can bankrupt. */
08:16<@planetmaker>obviously a toothless tiger warning ;-)
08:16<@Alberth>no other bank wants to buy your shares, and letting the transport company go bankrupt would crash the economy :)
08:16<ZxBiohazardZx>its case 10 first loader
08:16<ZxBiohazardZx>if we are in offline mode (aka single player) then game can run forever and ever untill you cheat-companies or exit yourself
08:18<ZxBiohazardZx>so now let me get back to my screenshots thingy
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08:21<@planetmaker>so current behaviour is: warning after 6, closure after 12 months
08:22<@planetmaker>does your patch keep that pattern?
08:23<ZxBiohazardZx>yes now it does
08:23<ZxBiohazardZx>see updated one in last post
08:24<ZxBiohazardZx>warn on 6, close in 9
08:24<ZxBiohazardZx>old closed in 9 too?
08:24<@planetmaker>in 12...
08:24<ZxBiohazardZx>i close on 10 i think, just have to add case11 break then
08:24<ZxBiohazardZx>not hard
08:24<ZxBiohazardZx>case 10: case11: break; case 12:
08:25<@planetmaker>yes, testing your patches. That's hard and time consuming
08:25<@planetmaker>writing code is the easy part
08:25<@planetmaker>you as in general you
08:25<@planetmaker>not you personally :-)
08:25<ZxBiohazardZx>i know
08:26<ZxBiohazardZx>no offence taken, i know im lazy on testing part
08:26<ZxBiohazardZx>then again its my first actual coding so
08:26<@planetmaker>yes. you are
08:26<ZxBiohazardZx>anyway we offer the company up to others @ 9
08:26<ZxBiohazardZx>warn on 6, try to sell on 9, bankrupt @ 12
08:28<@planetmaker>but don't be lazy with testing your patches. It's not motivating to review untested stuff
08:28<ZxBiohazardZx>updated post again :P
08:28<@planetmaker>and you want us to look at it, right?
08:28<ZxBiohazardZx>i agree, ill try to test this changeset in about 5 mins :P
08:29<ZxBiohazardZx>atm i try to see why the screenshot dir thing is failing :P
08:30<ZxBiohazardZx>but after ill check ask ask you for professional review :p
08:31<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz compile errorz gg
08:34<@planetmaker>you still didn't fix the comments
08:34<@planetmaker>missing space before {
08:35<@planetmaker>and inconsistent usage of spacer lines between different cases
08:35<@planetmaker>there's a comment to case 4 which needs updating
08:36<ZxBiohazardZx>ah ok 4-> 12
08:36<@planetmaker>and wrong comment style for economy.cpp:625 hunk
08:37<ZxBiohazardZx>and what you mean by spacer lines etc?
08:37<@planetmaker>and in hunk :774: you start capitalized after a full stop
08:37<@planetmaker>well, you don't. But one usually does
08:38<ZxBiohazardZx>ah ok
08:38<ZxBiohazardZx>spacer lines
08:38<ZxBiohazardZx>what about that?
08:38<@planetmaker>look at how the cases are separated. Either by a blank line. Or by none. But now both is used
08:39<ZxBiohazardZx>ah ok
08:39<ZxBiohazardZx>what is prefered? none?
08:40<@planetmaker>I'd add one.
08:42<ZxBiohazardZx>blegh patchfail
08:42<ZxBiohazardZx>i tried to revert but then i overshot, but patch wont apply, corrupt line or so
08:43<@planetmaker>I use hg amend or hg qrefresh ;-)
08:43<ZxBiohazardZx>git but ill clean it
08:49<ZxBiohazardZx>wrong comment style for :625 i dont see any comment there
08:49<ZxBiohazardZx>but i assume you mean the // Check for bankruptcy each month
08:50<ZxBiohazardZx>to /* check bankruptcy each month */ ?
08:52<@Alberth>if it is a comment on a line by itself, yes
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08:52<@Alberth>you may want to read the code style wiki page, where these things are documented
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08:53<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, I tested the patch now for the last hour. I'll leave it to you to do the same. And fix it accordingly. It does not behave as the existing behaviour wrt timing
08:53<ZxBiohazardZx>still dont see your spacer lines planet but i will do Alberth
08:53<@planetmaker>took me some time to see the obvious mistake :-)
08:53<Dans34>i see a few people on my server type !rules or !help , is this something that i can get on my server ?
08:53<ZxBiohazardZx>haha ill test it planet
08:54<ZxBiohazardZx>just lemmy fix style and then ill compile and test
08:54<@planetmaker>really play-test it
08:54<@Alberth>Dans34: depends on the intended semantics of such lines of text :p
08:54<@planetmaker>to see the effect(s)
08:55<@Alberth>Dans34: server owners sometimes hook the chat to a irc bot
08:56<Dans34>alberth , is that some config option or do i need a special server version ?
08:57<@Alberth>you need some setup around the openttd program, but that's all I know.
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08:57<@Alberth>wb andy
08:58<@planetmaker>Dans34, we use a server wrapper which catches the command
08:58<@planetmaker>namely autopilot+ which we then add a callback to respond to that command
08:58<Dans34>planetmaker, where can i get that wrapper ?
08:59<@planetmaker>iirc that is :-)
08:59<@planetmaker>don't waste your time with it, if you're running windows, though
08:59<@planetmaker>or be the first to make it work there :-)
09:00<@Terkhen>ZxBiohazardZx: did the road_cmd change remove the warning for you?
09:00<Dans34>bah thats just the os my server is running
09:01<@Alberth>nice, adding a ScopeResolver in the newgrf code was easy, now if only I remembered the next step :p
09:02<@planetmaker>Dans34, the preferred way is anyway to use a script to hook to the admin port and respond from there. But there is to my knowledge no available ready-to-run script exists for that afaik. In all the three years no-one cared to publish any, if anyone has one for it
09:02<@planetmaker>so much for open source philosophy... :-(
09:02<@planetmaker>grab what you can get, but not give back is what many server owners exercise there, sadly
09:04<@Alberth>most solutions are probably too ugly and undocumented to have within a light year distance ;p
09:04<@planetmaker>likely ;-)
09:06<ZxBiohazardZx>dunno Terkhen, didnt try, atm im trying to bankrupt myself
09:07<ZxBiohazardZx>but in single player you wont bankrupt
09:07<@planetmaker>hint: use the news backlog, a small map, and be not in the company yourself, if you test SP
09:07<@planetmaker>well observed ;-)
09:07<@planetmaker>but still, you can test it in SP ;-)
09:08<@planetmaker>as the condition is single player and within the company ;-)
09:08<@planetmaker>huge difference
09:10<ZxBiohazardZx>im in multiplayering myself on a 64x64
09:10<ZxBiohazardZx>made 1 train and just let it run for red numbers on company A
09:10<ZxBiohazardZx>and im sitting in B watching it
09:10<@planetmaker>you can improve the speed of bancruptcy ;-)
09:10<ZxBiohazardZx>and i got news log on to track
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09:15<Dans34>can i configure the onjoin messge or do i need that wrapper to do tht ?
09:15<@planetmaker>look in openttd's scripts dir
09:16<ZxBiohazardZx>in trouble: 01-07-2012
09:16<ZxBiohazardZx>so thats on month4
09:18<ZxBiohazardZx>offered a takeover on 1-10-2012 (month 7)
09:22<ZxBiohazardZx>Bankrupt! 01-01-2013 (q4)
09:22<ZxBiohazardZx>so now lets see how new behaviour is
09:24<ZxBiohazardZx>blegh game wont start
09:24<ZxBiohazardZx>no available language packs?
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09:24<ZxBiohazardZx>i compile then copy contents of bin -> openttd-folder/copy right?
09:26<@planetmaker>msvc has certainly the option for make bundle or so
09:27<@planetmaker>don't copy around just the binary. language files are compiled for one specific binary
09:27<ZxBiohazardZx>This is not necessary in compiling OpenTTD, only if you want to upload your binary publicly.
09:27<ZxBiohazardZx>also required to play it ofc
09:28<ZxBiohazardZx>and ofc requires more software i dont have
09:32<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz it wont generate .exe?
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09:32<Ammler>Dans34: better use the libs based on new admin interface
09:33<ZxBiohazardZx>The compiling is complete when the openttd.exe file is made. It will be copied to the ./bin subfolder.
09:33<ZxBiohazardZx>gg for that not being created
09:33<Dans34>Ammler ,where do i find that ?
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09:37<ZxBiohazardZx>shouldnt VS10 generate .exe as well?
09:38<ZxBiohazardZx>========== Build: 6 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 up-to-date, 1 skipped ==========
09:38<ZxBiohazardZx>still no .exe :P
09:39<@Alberth>so it skiped building the exe? :p
09:39<ZxBiohazardZx>i dunno
09:39<ZxBiohazardZx>doesnt show what is skipped for some fucked up reason
09:40<ZxBiohazardZx>4>------ Skipped Build: Project: generate, Configuration: Release Win32 ------
09:41<andythenorth_>Can anyone confirm flickering fence bug with oil well firs 3015?
09:41<Rubidium>isn't the .exe in the objs/release folder?
09:41<ZxBiohazardZx>its just non-existing
09:41<ZxBiohazardZx>ill just manual build generate and then run rebuild
09:41<ZxBiohazardZx>VS10 :)
09:42<Zuu>ZxBiohazardZx: So OpenTTD doesn't start when you hit F5?
09:42<Zuu>Try to select the openttd project from the project list if it's not selected.
09:42<ZxBiohazardZx>Zuu 1 sec
09:44<@Alberth>1 sec has passed.... :)
09:44<ZxBiohazardZx>rebuilding atm
09:44<ZxBiohazardZx>but no it doesnt
09:45<ZxBiohazardZx>its selected
09:45<ZxBiohazardZx>the problem is that it generates all shit
09:45<ZxBiohazardZx>but no .exe
09:45<ZxBiohazardZx>i get /objs/Win32/Release filled with alot
09:45<ZxBiohazardZx>but no .exe
09:45<Zuu>Do you build a release build or a debug build?
09:46<ZxBiohazardZx>but i can build a debug if you want as well, /care
09:46<Zuu>And you have the OpenTTD project selected in the solution?
09:46<Zuu>No its fine, I was just ensuring that you looked for the right build.
09:48<Zuu>So what happens when you hit F5, does it start some program?
09:48<Zuu>Eg. maybe its starting the strgen instead of openttd?
09:49<ZxBiohazardZx>if i hit F5 it asks me to rebuild debug
09:49<ZxBiohazardZx>1 sec
09:50<ZxBiohazardZx>i get an openttd window but it remains white and empty
09:50<Zuu>If F5 builds a debug version, then F7 will also bulid a debug edition.
09:50<Zuu>In that case the .exe is found in /objs/Win32/Debug
09:51<ZxBiohazardZx>nope no .exe in that folder
09:51<ZxBiohazardZx>lemmy just clear up and try again
09:53<Zuu>For the record I use VS2008 for compiling OpenTTD but 2010 should work too.
09:54<Rubidium>the CF uses 2010
09:55<ZxBiohazardZx>ah nvm i got it
09:55<ZxBiohazardZx>cleanup helped
09:55<ZxBiohazardZx>it just popped in the release dir
09:55<ZxBiohazardZx>time to check the new bankruptcy behaviour
09:57<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, just take max loan, delete water. and wait. Easiest to get bancrupt that way ;-)
09:59<Zuu>planetmaker: there is an AI, I think its AIAI that does that to sucide if it cannot make money.
09:59<Rubidium>... use the #openttdcoop setting for extremely expensive ships
09:59<Rubidium>and buy one ship
10:01<ZxBiohazardZx>planet no im doing 3 tests
10:01<ZxBiohazardZx>1 company should flag bankrupt on old scheme, but wont on new
10:01<ZxBiohazardZx>1 company always flags
10:01<ZxBiohazardZx>and 1 company is in the plus
10:01-!-andythenorth_ [~andytheno@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:01<ZxBiohazardZx>the absolute bankrupt one just got flagged & warned
10:02<ZxBiohazardZx>01-06-2012 (month 6 in red)
10:04<ZxBiohazardZx>takeover suggestion up on 10-08-2012 (month 8) (lolwut)
10:04<NGC3982>Star trek and OpenTTD.
10:04<NGC3982>What a morning.
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10:05<ZxBiohazardZx>Bankrupt! 01-10-2012 (month 10?)
10:06<ZxBiohazardZx>is that what you mean planet?
10:06<Rubidium>that doesn't look like Star Trek
10:06<@planetmaker>NGC3982, looks like a connection problem (for the station, not the server)
10:07<@planetmaker>and... be more liberal in allowing straight travel
10:07<ZxBiohazardZx>planetmaker what was your point when testing
10:07<@planetmaker>for the right station. Like you do for the left
10:07<NGC3982>Take a peak at this. Im using ISR 0.8.1 and Swedish Rails 0.7.4.
10:07<ZxBiohazardZx>the bankruptcy seems reasonable on my timeframe?
10:07<NGC3982>planetmaker: Oh, i see.
10:08<Rubidium>hmm... did NGC3982 have a wedding this morning to attend to?
10:08<ZxBiohazardZx>01-06-2012 its warned, on 01-08-2012 its up for purchase and on 01-10-2012 its sold
10:08<@planetmaker>sounds like a month early at least for sale, no?
10:08<@planetmaker>6+3 = 9 in my book
10:08<NGC3982>Rubidium: Galaxy systems to not invoke marriage.
10:09<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz true sale is 1 month short and complete sell is 2 months early
10:09<ZxBiohazardZx>but i cant see why in the code :P
10:09<ZxBiohazardZx>there is case 10: case11: break; case12:
10:09<ZxBiohazardZx>it is almost as-if it ignores a break somewhere
10:09<@Alberth>saved all files? :p
10:10<NGC3982>planetmaker: I guess that the rail mismatch is nothing more than incompability between the rail and the station tile NewGRF?
10:10<@planetmaker>it's iirc the station grf's fault
10:10<NGC3982>The thing is, as i note on all the other ISR stations, most of them actually adept the rail NewGRF
10:11<NGC3982>I see.
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10:13<ZxBiohazardZx> /* FALL THROUGH to case 10... */
10:13<ZxBiohazardZx> }
10:13<ZxBiohazardZx> default:
10:13<ZxBiohazardZx>is that the reason planet?
10:13-!-keoz [] has quit [Quit: keoz]
10:13<ZxBiohazardZx>aka why does it skip 1 case for some reason?
10:14<ZxBiohazardZx>it works fine till case 6: but after that it seems to skip 1 month and another on bankruptdeclare
10:14<ZxBiohazardZx>so 9 = 8 and 12 = 10
10:14<Kjetil>If 6 was 9
10:14<ZxBiohazardZx>nah 01-06 was the announcement for bankrupting
10:15<ZxBiohazardZx>or is that maybe a hidden 5 :P
10:15<ZxBiohazardZx>ill just bankrupt another and check
10:15<@planetmaker>I don't know your current code, so I can't comment
10:15<ZxBiohazardZx>ill post it in a sec
10:16<ZxBiohazardZx>lemmy just test another time bankrupting the other comp
10:16<NGC3982>I have formulated an idea.
10:16<ZxBiohazardZx>Negative Cash: 15-Jun-2013
10:16<NGC3982>I shal't build us a train.
10:17<NGC3982>With PMs face as front graphics.
10:17<NGC3982>And it shal't inherit the earth
10:19<ZxBiohazardZx>@planet updated my post
10:20<NGC3982>To be serious regarding my GRF mismatch issue. Can it be a factor of which NewGRF is added to the game first?
10:20<NGC3982>The ISR is added before the rail-type.
10:20<ZxBiohazardZx>no IRS ignores rail
10:21<NGC3982>It obviosly uses it?
10:21<ZxBiohazardZx>trouble: 01-oct-2013
10:21<ZxBiohazardZx>Negative Cash: 15-06-2012, trouble: 01-10-2013
10:23<@planetmaker>I do believe that announcement of trouble is also off by one
10:23<ZxBiohazardZx>but then look at that patch, why?
10:23<ZxBiohazardZx>is it ignoring breaks?
10:23<ZxBiohazardZx>is my logics offset by 1?
10:24<@Alberth>use a debugger or print some output what is happening
10:25<@Alberth>otherwise you'll be random guessing forever.
10:25<Rubidium>you already start with "months of bankruptcy" which counts the current month as well
10:25<ZxBiohazardZx>darn you made me miss the exact time it offered me the takeover
10:26<Rubidium>so if the negative cash triggers thinking about bankruptcy on 01-01-2000, then "months of bankruptcy" is already 1
10:26<ZxBiohazardZx>bankrupt! 01-03-2014
10:26<Rubidium>so after 5 months it reaches 6, i.e. 01-06-2000
10:26<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, news log tells you that time
10:26<ZxBiohazardZx>so warning: 01-10-2013, bankrupt 01-03-2014
10:27<ZxBiohazardZx>thats not 6 months, thats 5
10:27<ZxBiohazardZx>but then why does it bankrupt after 10 and not after 11 :P
10:27<ZxBiohazardZx>if your +1 is right
10:28<ZxBiohazardZx>it counts Jun,July,August,Sept Okt Nov Dec Jan Feb March
10:28<ZxBiohazardZx>makes 10
10:28<ZxBiohazardZx>not 12
10:28<Rubidium>also... previously the fall through triggered bankruptcy immediately if it had no value at quarter 3 by going to quarter 4 code (=remove company). However, you change it to break instead of jumping to the remove company clause
10:28<ZxBiohazardZx>i expected bankrupt on 01-jun
10:29<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, I start in January. February is the first month counting. Thus bancrupcy thread should be issued on 1st July
10:29<ZxBiohazardZx>if your negative in january (aka 30th jan your negative) then January counts
10:30<ZxBiohazardZx>just as 30th april flagged you on old system
10:30<@planetmaker>I'm find on 1st January. and 1st of month is the date which counts
10:30<ZxBiohazardZx>ah ok
10:30<@planetmaker>even the beginning of that day
10:30<Rubidium>is the diff on the forum up-to-date?
10:30<ZxBiohazardZx>yes its the exact one im using
10:30<ZxBiohazardZx>the 3 combined that is
10:30<ZxBiohazardZx>so 1+2+3
10:30<ZxBiohazardZx>3 is just the when
10:30<ZxBiohazardZx>1 and 2 alter the conditions
10:31<ZxBiohazardZx>and seem to work fine btw, the other testcase pointed that out
10:31<ZxBiohazardZx>though 2 might need bigger penalty for lazyness
10:31<ZxBiohazardZx>anyway the issue is on 3: it seems to miscount the months
10:32<Rubidium>first, make very clear what you want to count and how
10:32<ZxBiohazardZx>i want to count the ammount of months a player cannot pay its absolute depts
10:32<Rubidium>*if* I have no money on 01-01-2000 for the first time, when should the messages/bankruptcy come?
10:32<Rubidium>message after 6 months, so 01-07?
10:33<Rubidium>offer after 9 months, so 01-10?
10:33<Rubidium>bankruptcy after 12 months, so 01-01-2001?
10:33<ZxBiohazardZx>message on 01-07, offer for sale @ 01-09 and sell completely @ 01-01-2001
10:33<Rubidium>sale at 01-09 or 01-10?
10:33<@planetmaker>wrong... sale @ 1st Oct, and bancrupt at 1st Feb
10:34<Rubidium>planetmaker: why in februari?
10:34<ZxBiohazardZx>no planet for Rubidium picked bad cash on 01-01-2000 :P
10:34<ZxBiohazardZx>so he will go down on 01-01-2001
10:34<@planetmaker>but check is at beginning of day. Thus you need to be bad already at end of 31st Dec
10:34<Rubidium>so, with the current code 01-01-2000 will have months bankrupt = 1
10:34<ZxBiohazardZx>and he should be up for sale on 01-09-2000 and he should be up for trouble @ 01-06-2000
10:35<ZxBiohazardZx>if your balance is negative on 31 and 01 then yes
10:35<Rubidium>really... what is it?
10:35<@planetmaker>currently, in 1.2.2, with first bad 1st of month being February 1st, we get the threat in 1st July, the offer to sale on 1st Oct.
10:35<ZxBiohazardZx>if your negative on 31st december and 1st january
10:35<Rubidium>no matter what it is now, what do you want?
10:35<ZxBiohazardZx>we want old behaviour
10:36<ZxBiohazardZx>well no
10:36<ZxBiohazardZx>they want old behaviour :P
10:36<ZxBiohazardZx>the reason to make it monthly
10:36<ZxBiohazardZx>is to make it easier to escape bad luck factor
10:36<Rubidium>old behaviour is: no money at 01-01, warning at 01-04, offer at 01-07 and bankrupt at 01-10
10:36<ZxBiohazardZx>then that is expected new behaviour
10:36<ZxBiohazardZx>the only reason we swapped to monthly is to reduce the "bad luck 3x" chance
10:37<ZxBiohazardZx>as now you need "bad luck 9x" chance
10:37<@planetmaker>uhm, warning is at 6 months time, Rubidium
10:37<ZxBiohazardZx>way more acceptable
10:37<Rubidium>planetmaker: really?
10:37<@planetmaker>offer at 9 months. yes
10:37<@planetmaker>I tested 1.2.2
10:37<ZxBiohazardZx>planet is right
10:37<@planetmaker>that's where I got the dates from
10:37<ZxBiohazardZx>warn after 6, offer after 9, bankrupt at 12
10:38<Rubidium>planetmaker: that does not fit with the code
10:38<ZxBiohazardZx>old or new code :P
10:38<Rubidium>old code
10:38<ZxBiohazardZx>old code counted quarters
10:38<ZxBiohazardZx>quarter0,1,2,3 and fallthrough 4
10:38<Rubidium>quarter 0 is pointless
10:38<ZxBiohazardZx>covering a year
10:38<ZxBiohazardZx>well 0 is the reset ofc
10:39<Rubidium>entering CompanyCheckBankrupt you can never have a negative number, thus by the time you reach the switch the value must be >= 1
10:39<Rubidium>in case #2 (the second begin of quarter with no money) you get the warning
10:40<Rubidium>in case #3 (the third begin of quarter with no money) you get the offer
10:40<Rubidium>in case #4 (the fourth quarter with no money) you are bankrupt
10:40<@planetmaker>Rubidium, yes, 1st check doesn't trigger anything. 2nd check does trigger warning, 3rd triggers sale
10:40<@planetmaker>but as quarters are fixed, you can go 6 months in debt without getting a warning
10:40<@planetmaker>6 months - 1 tick
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10:41<Rubidium>so, *if* I have no money at 01-01-2000, then at 04-01-2000 you get the warning, 07-01-2000 the offer and 10-01-2000 you are bankrupt
10:41<Rubidium>as 01-01-2000 is quarter/case #1
10:41<Rubidium>04-01-2000 is quarter/case #2
10:41<@planetmaker>yes, agreed. Beginning of 1/1/2000
10:42<Rubidium>so the question is, what do you want in the end result?
10:42<Rubidium>when you migrate to months
10:42<ZxBiohazardZx>the end result is exactly the same as currently
10:43<ZxBiohazardZx>the only reason we migrate is that it is way easier to escape it when you are positive again
10:43-!-Dans34 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:43<ZxBiohazardZx>aka if* you are negative on 01-01-2000 and positive on any other date untill you are again negative (unlucky you) on 04-01-2000
10:43<ZxBiohazardZx>well you get my point i hope
10:43<Rubidium>in that case: warning in months_of_bankruptcy == 4, offer in month_of_bankruptcy == 7 and bankrupt in month_of_bankruptcy = 10
10:44<ZxBiohazardZx>it removes the bad luck chance
10:44<@planetmaker>remove? No. Reduce? Yes
10:44<ZxBiohazardZx>nah removes planet
10:44<ZxBiohazardZx>the chance you are unlucky 9x in a row is horrible financial management
10:44<@planetmaker>oh, the reset. yes
10:44<@planetmaker>missed that line, sorry
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10:45<ZxBiohazardZx>so ok with that said, ==4 ==7 and ==10 is the result im getting on that piece of shitcode posted
10:45<ZxBiohazardZx>aka it ignores some cases, but does end up on right timeframes no?
10:45<Rubidium>ZxBiohazardZx: why? I have gone bankrupt with a really profitable company, I was just expanding so fast I built stuff whenever I was positive. Thus I never had money on the bank, but a very healthy cash flow
10:45<@planetmaker>3, 6 and 9 seems more reasonable then :-)
10:46<ZxBiohazardZx>01-10-2013: Trouble! 01-03-2014: Bankrupt!
10:46<ZxBiohazardZx>thats 5 months gap
10:46<ZxBiohazardZx>weird shit is weird
10:46<ZxBiohazardZx>so looking at that Code i posted, why is it not doing 4/7/10?
10:46<@planetmaker>you count 0-based but calculate 1-based
10:47<ZxBiohazardZx>ok fair enough
10:47<Rubidium>planetmaker: they are reasonable. However, as I mentioned before: >= 1 means there has been a month with too little money, i.e. 1 is the first month you have no money
10:47<ZxBiohazardZx>so change values
10:47<Rubidium>making it 3, then you will get the warning after two months (+1 tick) of having no money
10:48<ZxBiohazardZx>sp 4/7/10 effectively is 3/6/9
10:48<ZxBiohazardZx>also while on economy.cpp Rubidium
10:48<ZxBiohazardZx>have a look on the interest function
10:48<ZxBiohazardZx>on the unchanged file
10:48<ZxBiohazardZx>why the fuck is that : expenses other (station maintenance?) under that function?
10:48*Rubidium has no interest in interest
10:49<ZxBiohazardZx>SubtractMoneyFromCompany(CommandCost(EXPENSES_OTHER, _price[PR_STATION_VALUE] >> 2));
10:49<ZxBiohazardZx>ok fair point
10:49<ZxBiohazardZx>let it rot is fine
10:49<Rubidium>it's the cost you pay to the 'house of commerce' or whatever it's called to register yourself as a company
10:49<ZxBiohazardZx>warning == 4, sale == 7, bankrupt == 10 right?
10:50<ZxBiohazardZx>ah cool
10:50<ZxBiohazardZx>not documented but cool
10:50<Rubidium>then add that documentation ;)
10:50<ZxBiohazardZx>so case4: warn case7:offersale case10: bankrupt?
10:51<Rubidium>yes, fallthrough from case 7 to case 10. NOT to case 8/9
10:51<ZxBiohazardZx>how do i make it fallthrough?
10:52<Rubidium>by placing the cases directly under eachother with no other cases in between
10:52<Rubidium>so case 8/9 must not be between 7 and 10
10:52<ZxBiohazardZx>so we have case 0: case 1: case 2: case3: break;
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10:52<ZxBiohazardZx>case 4: warn the company
10:53<ZxBiohazardZx>case 5: case 6: break; case 7: offer for sale
10:53<ZxBiohazardZx>case 8: bankrupt
10:53<ZxBiohazardZx>but then it will bankrput too early
10:53<ZxBiohazardZx>so 8/9 have to be empty no?
10:54<Rubidium>cases don't need to be ordered
10:54<ZxBiohazardZx>ah ok so i can add 8 and 9 after 10
10:54<Rubidium>I'd do: case 0,1,2,3,5,6,8,9: break; case 4: warn; break; case 7: offset; break; default: case 10: bankrupt; break;
10:55<Rubidium>uhm... without the break after 7, so:
10:55<Rubidium>case 0,1,2,3,5,6,8,9: break; case 4: warn; break; case 7: offset; default: case 10: bankrupt; break;
10:55<@planetmaker>and s/offset/offer/ ;-)
10:56<ZxBiohazardZx>like so?
10:57<@planetmaker>I think so. But... I'd add the blank lines :-)
10:58<ZxBiohazardZx>blank lines?
10:58<ZxBiohazardZx>ah to make clear there is a gap
10:58<ZxBiohazardZx>so 3 blank 5...
11:00<ZxBiohazardZx>like so (not blank, but commentlines work just as well)
11:00<TinoDidriksen>Comment works even better.
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>so, why do all these "blank" cases, instead of making "default: break;" and only do 7 and 10 special?
11:08<@planetmaker>good question, Eddi|zuHause :-)
11:09<ZxBiohazardZx>cause eeehm
11:09<ZxBiohazardZx>dunno actually
11:09<ZxBiohazardZx>ill do that
11:09<ZxBiohazardZx>so default: break; case 4: bla etc?
11:10<ZxBiohazardZx>like that?
11:10<ZxBiohazardZx>ok nice
11:12<ZxBiohazardZx>brb gone shopping for food
11:16<TinoDidriksen>default really should be the last case. It's not invalid to have it earlier, but people expect it last.
11:16<NGC3982>Spock dies!
11:20<NGC3982>Of all the souls i have encountered in my travels
11:20<NGC3982>His was the most ..human.
11:20<NGC3982>Oy vey.
11:21<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: et al: because we want to use the default for > 10 months (in case the company should be bankrupt, but didn't go bankrupt because of occupancy in single player)
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: then clamp the counter to 10
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>or use an if/else chain
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>TinoDidriksen: i don't see a problem with having default as first
11:26*andythenorth has some advice
11:26<andythenorth>waste your time wisely
11:26<andythenorth>if you have kids, you won't have it :P
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>does that apply to neices and nephews as well?
11:37*andythenorth needs to solve this FIRS issue
11:38<andythenorth>with flickering fences
11:38<andythenorth>it is not possible while the baby is eating lego pieces
11:38<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz so put default on end?
11:40<andythenorth>oil well not using the fence switches
11:41<ZxBiohazardZx>quick reboot brb
11:41-!-ZxBiohazardZx [] has quit [Quit: I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not too sure.]
11:47<andythenorth>Yexo: planetmaker reckon the fence check can detect farm fields adjacent? Got double fences... :)
11:52<@planetmaker>I recon it can't
11:53<@planetmaker>would need TILE_CLASS_FIELD which doesn't exist ;-)
11:55<@planetmaker>yes, also checking specs, I see no way
12:02<andythenorth>fenced building or no fence?
12:04<Kjetil>Depends.. are the oil wells in south africa ?
12:05<andythenorth>I don't think there's a game var I can check for that o_O
12:05*andythenorth wonders if nml can get at the L5 bits of landscape class in the tile graphics chain
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>"the good news: openoffice is used in 228 countries. the bad news: there aren't even that many countries"
12:06<NGC3982>I like OpenOffice.
12:07<NGC3982>Amount of usable software per currency spent is fantastic.
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>i thought people use libreoffice nowadays
12:07<NGC3982>Though, i prefer Office as it is.
12:07<NGC3982>I thought Libreoffice == OpenOffice
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>only if you think USA == british empire
12:08<NGC3982>I do!
12:08<andythenorth>var 60 can probably get at those landscape bits
12:08<Kjetil>Why do you speek of these vars in numerical form. Why don't they have symbolic names ?
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>since oracle took over, openoffice is Evil(tm)
12:10<andythenorth>yes, they have names like 'var 60'
12:10<andythenorth>written as '60' in nfo ;)
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>there is no "var60" in nml
12:10<Kjetil>andythenorth: that's a poor name
12:11<andythenorth>there are limits to the names available :)
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>besides, even in nfo, "var 60" does not name a variable. the variable's name is "feature X var Y"
12:11<@Alberth>Kjetil: in NFO everything is a hexadecimal number :p
12:11<Kjetil>then you can have fun names like babecafe etc :P
12:12<andythenorth>could use escapes
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>Kjetil: i never quite got what was so funny about that
12:12<andythenorth>teach grfcodec all the names?
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the grf specs have "human" names for variables
12:13<Kjetil>Eddi|zuHause: well.. it one of the few "words" that can be spell with hex in a 32-bit var
12:13<@Alberth>Kjetil: too bad NFO is mostly 8 bit :)
12:13<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I was thinking just teach grfcodec the nml var names, as escapes ;)
12:13<@Alberth>\v60 :p
12:13<andythenorth>then nml users can switch to fnfo easily :P
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: use a preprocessor ;)
12:14<@Terkhen>why should nml users want to switch to nfo? :P
12:14-!-andythenorth is now known as andythenorth_trolling
12:14-!-andythenorth_trolling is now known as andythenorth
12:14<Kjetil>Alberth: kill it with fire then
12:15*andythenorth still thinks about nml in nfo terms
12:15<andythenorth>which seems to work fine
12:15<andythenorth>wrt vars, cbs etc
12:17<andythenorth>so nml var 'nearby_tile_class' can't get the landscape bits
12:17<andythenorth>presumaby nml can access arbitrary 80+ vars?
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>var[num, shift, mask, param]
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>leave out param for non-60 vars
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>and put in a request at the tracker for your specific use case, to get a named variable
12:22<andythenorth>or patch nml? o_O
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>still means you have to put the patch at the tracker
12:24<andythenorth>or get shouted at for committing ;)
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>but yes, adding a variable is semi-trivial ;)
12:25<andythenorth>can someone decide which of these I should use please
12:26<NGC3982>The first.
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>second looks more consistent
12:26<@planetmaker>andythenorth, which NFO var will then tell you that a tile is a farm field (or pondering something else)?
12:27<andythenorth>planetmaker: var 60 *might* if it get at the correct L5 bits
12:27<andythenorth>it only has a nibble afaict though
12:27*andythenorth finds the spec page for you
12:28<andythenorth>second nibble (c)
12:28<@planetmaker>that's the landscape calss
12:28<@planetmaker>you get than in NML, too
12:29<andythenorth>can we get the L5 bits though?
12:29<@planetmaker>that's why I said it needs TILE_CLASS_FIELDS
12:29<andythenorth>or just the class only
12:29<@planetmaker>you get the tile class. Not a class's bits
12:29<andythenorth>I'm reading it as class only
12:30<@planetmaker>me, too
12:30<andythenorth>so we can't use var 60
12:30<andythenorth>has to be an 80+ var
12:30<andythenorth>too long since andythenorth has done this in nfo :P
12:31<andythenorth>used to do this a lot :P
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12:32<andythenorth>here's a picture of the issue:
12:33<andythenorth>I could file it away under 'edge case' and leave it alone
12:36<@planetmaker>I'd suggest to do exactly that ;-)
12:37<andythenorth>it's the kind of thing Yexo likes to fix sometimes ;)
12:37<andythenorth>it's 4 extra var checks in the fences switch
12:37<andythenorth>it can wait ;)
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12:46<andythenorth>could use a half fence
12:46<andythenorth>or fence with gate
12:46<andythenorth>probly overkill
12:54<Prof_Frink>Careful, someone might take a fence.
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13:01<@Terkhen>heh :P
13:03<andythenorth>4 industries converted
13:03<andythenorth>only 45 left to do
13:07<supermop>what are you doing? adding fences?
13:09<@Terkhen>he is giving FIRS another code conversion :P
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13:13<Eddi|zuHause>is it going to be called FIRS 3.x then? :)
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13:15<NGC3982>FIRS EXTRA(tm).
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13:16<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: I'd like FIRST 0.1 better ;)
13:23<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I think FIRS 2 should come before FIRS 3 :P
13:23<andythenorth>it takes about 1.5 days to convert each industry
13:24<andythenorth>@calc 45 * 1.5
13:24<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 67.5
13:24<andythenorth>how many days left until christmas?
13:24<Rubidium>you'll be done before 1.3.0-beta2 ;)
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13:24<andythenorth>oh goody :P
13:25<Rubidium>andythenorth: sadly only 66 days until Christmas
13:26<Rubidium>you mean Armenian (78), Ethopian (79) or Eastern Orthodox (79) Christmas
13:27<andythenorth>ho ho ho
13:32<Prof_Frink>Or 431. Plenty of time.
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13:42<Eddi|zuHause>german christmas starts on the eve of the 24th, while british christmas starts on the morning of the 25th
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>the british royal family celebrates the german christmas, for obvious reasons :)
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24616 /trunk/src/lang (latvian.txt spanish.txt) (2012-10-20 17:45:13 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>latvian - 3 changes by Parastais
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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13:59<andythenorth>so converting an industry only takes ~60 minutes
13:59<andythenorth>1/3 of which is spent waiting for nml to compile tests
13:59<andythenorth>the remaining 35 hours are spent holding children
14:00<andythenorth>anybody want to help? :P
14:08*Terkhen is not that good with children
14:10<andythenorth>that industry took 10 mins only :P
14:11<andythenorth>including compiling and reading forums :P
14:11<Kjetil>was it at brothel ?
14:21<andythenorth>8 industries done
14:21<andythenorth>@calc 41 * 1.5
14:21<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 61.5
14:22<andythenorth>might be done by christmas :P
14:24<TyrHeimdal>Is it possible to say "load cargo X" in a goto order?
14:24<Kjetil>Are you making a chrimasthemed grf ? :P
14:25<TyrHeimdal>so to make it ONLY load that cargo type?
14:25<andythenorth>it will only load what it is refitted to
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14:27<TyrHeimdal>this is my idea: trains has x oil cars and one engineering supply car. carry oil from a dock to refinery, pick up eng.sup. at the refinery and go back to the dock to unload eng.sup and pick up oil
14:27<TyrHeimdal>at the dock I want a helipad with a chopper to pick up eng.sup. and deliver to oil rigs
14:27<andythenorth>full load any cargo
14:27<TyrHeimdal>but the trains, pick up the eng.sup. from the docks again :P
14:27<andythenorth>not full load all
14:28<andythenorth>yeah, you've got a transfer problem
14:28<andythenorth>the only way to solve that is autorefit the eng sup vehicles to something else
14:28<TyrHeimdal>ottd is missing an "load x only" option :D
14:28<andythenorth>known issue
14:28<andythenorth>ask alberth about increasingly complicated orders :P
14:28<@Alberth>it's missing a lot of orders
14:29<Kjetil>TyrHeimdal: you could separate your dock into to seperate stations and unload at eng.sup at one and load oil at the other
14:29<@Alberth>the current biggest problem is a nice gui to specify it all
14:30<TyrHeimdal>Kjetil: yeah
14:30<@Alberth>where usually you should have to specify very little
14:30<TyrHeimdal>but i think I'll just do a separate train dedicated to eng-sup. transport to the docks
14:37<andythenorth>so MB sent me a link to a thread with 'views' for vehicles discussed
14:37<andythenorth>that could be one way to handle liveries and such
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: problems are not solved by sticking a name on something
14:50<andythenorth>there is spec discussion in that thread
14:53<andythenorth>I think this one gets filed under 'meh' doesn't it :P
14:53<andythenorth>the whole issue ;)
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14:57<NGC3982>Was that your review of Prometheus?
14:58<andythenorth>@calc 38 / 49
14:58<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.775510204082
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: what was wrong with that?
15:09<NGC3982>By far the worst of the movies i have encountered so far.
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15:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the problem was that we did not get to a consensus of what everyone actually wanted
15:19<andythenorth>ah that old problem :)
15:19<andythenorth>that apparently blocks improved vehicle smoke too :)
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>there's a grf coder's view, a grf designer's view, a patch dev's view and an openttd dev's view, and the overlap of each was not very large
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>we need views on views :p
15:22<andythenorth>one interesting point is that maybe liveries and subtypes are *both* separate from adjusting vehicle stats
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>adjusting stats is cb36, which can react on any data available through variables
15:31<andythenorth>that is not 100% a good thing ;)
15:31<andythenorth>there are dangers :P
15:37<@planetmaker>that summary of views on views is sadly quite accurate, Eddi|zuHause :S
15:40<andythenorth>seems these things usually get resolved not by talking, but by one dev committing something nobody has heard about :P
15:41<@planetmaker>oh, the talking can be the pre-requisite, though, andythenorth :-)
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15:47<NGC3982>Is there any possibility to stop time?
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15:47<Wolf01>I would like it too
15:47<NGC3982>I could definetly play a server game on the same year, forever.
15:48<Ammler>I had once a patch to make constant MAX_YEAR a setting
15:51<@Alberth>we have such a year :)
15:53<Ammler>might be a bit old, but you got the idea :-P
15:54<Ammler>I really should disable that broken firefox feature (hide http)
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15:58<Eddi|zuHause>i never understood why a patch that simple wouldn't be included
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>changing the setting from 5.000.000 to 1950 by clicking may be tedious though :p
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>needs a logarithmic delta
16:00<Ammler>yeah, the comment from peter1138 is a bit silly
16:08<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: double click, and edit the year in 'generate game' :)
16:08<Ammler>you might confuse another setting
16:08<Ammler>end_year maybe
16:12<Ammler>oh, you mean gui gui :-)
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16:15<Ammler>I would not think, it needs to be gui setting, at least not for configure start game
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>why should it not be a GUI setting?
16:22<Ammler>I meant part of the start game wizard
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>that may be debatable. but "GUI option" means "in the advanced settings"
16:30<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: how would a logarithmic delta work?
16:30<andythenorth>13 out 49 industries converted :P
16:31<Rubidium>though it seems like a lazy man's day length patch
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i mean something like the step size changes for each round(log(n)) or so
16:33<NGC3982>Soylent FIRS.
16:34<andythenorth>it never gets old, no matter how many times it's mentioned :P
16:36<Rubidium>oh... do I see a new word to learn there? What does it mean?
16:39<NGC3982>andythenorth: :D
16:39<NGC3982>Rubidium: Soylent Green is a horror/thriller movie with Charlton Heston.
16:40<andythenorth>I think he knows :P
16:40*andythenorth will be surprised if he doesn't
16:40<andythenorth>given that it's discussed here every 5 days or so :P
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>hehe :)
16:40<Rubidium>well, I take a day off every 5 days it seems
16:40<NGC3982>In soviet russia, Charlton Heston plays you!
16:40<Rubidium>or rather, when there's lots of backlog I don't bother to read it
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>i vaguely remember seeing that movie on tv once
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>my brother is much into old scifi movies like that
16:42<Rubidium>oh, it was released on laserdisc
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>red or blue laser?
16:43<Rubidium>780 nm
16:43<Rubidium>the whole 30 cm of diameter ;)
16:45<Rubidium>blu ray is only 405 nm at 12 cm
16:46<Rubidium> from ~15s ;)
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16:47<andythenorth>wish these .pyc files would hide themselves :P
16:47<andythenorth>doesn't hide them in finder ;)
16:47<@planetmaker>true :-)
16:48<andythenorth>there's probably a plist somewhere
16:49<andythenorth>14 industries converted
16:49*andythenorth -> bed :P
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17:17<@Terkhen>good night
17:25<@planetmaker>good night, Terkhen
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17:33<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: sounds like this was before video compression
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it explains the word "compact disk" though :)
17:37*NGC3982 is on the last of the Kirk Star Trek movies.
17:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r24617 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2012-10-20 21:57:33 UTC)
17:57<@DorpsGek>-Change: Only bankrupt, if you have negative money considering you took max loan (ZxBiohazardZx)
17:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r24618 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2012-10-20 21:58:48 UTC)
17:58<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Pay interest also on a negative cash value (ZxBioHazardZx)
18:05<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r24619 /trunk/src (7 files in 3 dirs) (2012-10-20 22:05:26 UTC)
18:05<@DorpsGek>-Change: Check for bankruptcy on a monthly basis (ZxBioHazardZx)
18:07<Markk>I've played OTTD since 2005 now, tried quite a lot of NewGRFs, but today was the first some I've tried FIRS.
18:08<Markk>I don't know if I like it, it's a bit too complex. OTTD itself is a bit complex, which I love, but I find this a bit extreme.
18:08<@planetmaker>FIRS is easy - once you understand how it works :-)
18:09<@planetmaker>for a starter you could disregard any supplies
18:09<FLHerne>Markk: No-one said you had to use the whole thing at once ;-)
18:09<Markk>FLHerne: Haha, but it's hard to know what I should use.
18:10<@planetmaker>(supplies only help primary industries grow and secondaries to work more efficiently. But you can ignore them)
18:10<FLHerne>Try starting with something simple (iron/coal to a steel mill?) and then gradually add more flows
18:10<Markk>At the moment I'm moving coal and iron ore to a steel mill, and moving metal to a timber yard and them moving engineering and building supplies to the coal mine again.
18:10<@planetmaker>Markk, and you know of the industry chain view, yes?
18:10<Markk>planetmaker: Yes.
18:10<@planetmaker>good :-)
18:10<Markk>planetmaker: That helped me quite a bit.
18:11<@planetmaker>without it... I'd be lost, too ;-)
18:11<Markk>I'm aware of nearly all of the OpenTTD features (I'm using PBS in the correct way and such).
18:11<Markk>And then just a bit of oil to an oil refinery.
18:11<Markk>Also some PAX.
18:12<@planetmaker>so how does station acceptance work, both, delivery and acceptance? ;-)
18:12<@planetmaker>which areas, which industries will deliver or accept? :D
18:13<NGC3982>Late night baking.
18:13<NGC3982>Who's up for a slice.
18:13<Markk>What I find the most confusing is that you can deliver goods to so many different industries.
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18:14<Markk>planetmaker: I'm vanilla OpenTTD I know how that works.
18:14<Markk>planetmaker: But not in FIRS.
18:14<Markk>planetmaker: FIRS seems really neat though!
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18:14<@planetmaker>Markk, there's nothing a newgrf can change station acceptance / delivery rules
18:15<Markk>planetmaker: How do you mean then?
18:15<@planetmaker>I mean: rules for stations don't change with FIRS. Nor any newgrf
18:16<Markk>No, not that.
18:16<Markk>Your first question. :)
18:16<@planetmaker>It was just a kidding test for you... station coverage rules are anything but simple.
18:16<@planetmaker>And I was challanging you to explain them to me ;-)
18:16<@planetmaker>OpenTTD internals 211 or so ;-)
18:17<FLHerne>planetmaker: How about the FIRS acceptance rating hacking?
18:17<@planetmaker>that's only the station rating. Not the acceptance or delivery
18:18<FLHerne>Well, it affects acceptance to a degree :P
18:18<@planetmaker>And I only meant: which area does a station accept cargo from. Which industries around a station does it allow cargo delivery to. And under which conditions does it change
18:18<FLHerne>Fair enough
18:18<@planetmaker>no, doesn't change acceptance. Only amount of delivered stuff
18:19<Markk>planetmaker: Ah :)
18:19<NGC3982>My symmetry is crap.
18:19<NGC3982>Although, i must say FIRS+ISR is fantastic.
18:20<NGC3982>If Andy was awake, id give him a kiss.
18:20<@planetmaker>firs + chips is great, too
18:20<FLHerne>planetmaker : I would consider 'amount of stuff accepted' to be acceptance :P
18:21<@planetmaker>so, which industries around a station can an industry be in to allow delivery?
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>your engines and wagons don't really fit together
18:21<@planetmaker>and from which tiles do they deliver themselves? ;-)
18:21<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, i know.
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>is that one of those nohab electrics?
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18:23<NGC3982>A what?
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18:23<Eddi|zuHause>nohab was a swedish locomotive factory
18:25<NGC3982>Ah, yes. I think so.
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18:26<Eddi|zuHause>and after WWII it built an american-designed diesel engine which only was sold to railways outside sweden, and a few prototypes of electric engines which were used in sweden
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19:30<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: I see.
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19:49<Nat_aS>Fish and chips?
19:53<Wolf01>'nighty night
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20:29<Simonn><--- PRO
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20:30<Nat_aS>is that 100% station coverage>
20:31<Simonn>what do you mean?
20:31<Nat_aS>every house is served by a station
20:31<Simonn>ehm a tram picks them up
20:31<Nat_aS>the catchment area covers the entire city
20:31<Simonn>and delivers them to the nearest train station
20:32<Nat_aS>yeah, does the tram have 100% coverage?
20:32<Simonn>I think so
20:32<Simonn>but I still need to cover like 40% of my map
20:32<Simonn>I mean I only covered like 30-40%
20:32<Simonn>and it's already a mess
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20:35<Simonn>sooo what u think
20:36<scott__>hi all. I'm having a bitch of a time trying to get the 32bit zoom thing working. Is there a pre-configured version somewhere I can download?
20:37<Nat_aS>that's the same picture
20:37<Simonn>yeah I was showing off for scott__ :(
20:37<Simonn>can't he enjoy my awesome simonn transport international too
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20:56<scott__>ok, a different question. If I had a rail network with a train stopping at every town from one side of the map to the other, is that worse then an express train just going between two towns really far away?
20:56<Simonn>what do you mean worse
20:57<Simonn>income is calculated by distance
20:57<scott__>I'm pretty new to the game
20:57<scott__>so will some people just stay on the train till they get far away to their stop?
20:57<Simonn>depends on your route settings
20:57<scott__>just hopping from one to the other
20:57<Simonn>With "go to"?
20:57<Simonn>nothing special selected?
20:57<scott__>yep, no full load or anything
20:58<Simonn>if you have a train going from A to B to C
20:58<Simonn>then the train will fully load at A, fully unload at B, load at B, fully unload C, ...
20:58<Simonn>so no passengers will go from A to C I think
20:58<scott__>oh that's not ideal.. dumb people :P
20:58<Simonn>yeah openttd people are pretty dumb
20:59<scott__>so you get more money just going from A to C without stopping?
20:59<Simonn>yes, probably
20:59<Simonn> look
20:59<Simonn>you see the upper stations, going from south west to north east?
20:59<Simonn>the underground ones in the city centres
20:59<scott__>this is going to take a little while… png on a slow connection
20:59<Simonn>they are instructed to load at every station, without unloading
21:00<Simonn>and to unload at a certain station
21:00<Simonn>if my trains are full, they just skip the next station until my drop off station is reached
21:01<scott__>that does not seem like reality :P
21:01<Simonn>its openttd reality :p
21:01<Simonn>at the drop off station they get on a plane
21:01<Simonn>and fly far far away
21:01<scott__>and that makes you more money then say oil?
21:01<Simonn>best money maker is coal
21:01<Simonn>but I play the game in my own way
21:01<scott__>well coal/oil?
21:01<Simonn>I love playing like that in the screenshot
21:02<Simonn>Materials are better money making in the early game
21:05<scott__>well, I'll play again next month some time. Time to get back to real work. Thanks Simonn :)
21:05<Simonn>bye bye have fun
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21:07<Markk>kqr: Jag har alltid blandat ihop Gotye samt Goethe.?
21:07<Markk>Can you do a order which says something like: "If loaded by at least 60%, skip to next order"?
21:08<Markk>Also, can you do a order which says: "If already fully loaded, continue to %s"?
21:08<Markk>(I have 4 stations in a row, the two stations in the middle is load-only, so that would be useful)
21:09<Simonn>I am wondering the same thing
21:09<Simonn>would be nice
21:10<Markk>I think that I've seen that before, but havn't found a setting or option for it anywhere.
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23:28<Markk>Haha, there is a North Korean lovomotive in 2cc.
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23:46<TorA>Anyone on?
23:47<TorA>Anyone know where I can find a copy of NARS that isn't broken?
---Logclosed Sun Oct 21 00:00:53 2012