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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-07-12

---Logopened Fri Jul 12 00:00:05 2013
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02:18<SamanthaD>Is there a good way to ensure that a town gets food and water in Cargodist?
02:19<SamanthaD>I know in trunk you can transfer to a nearby station and then use a bus that goes back and fourth incessantly to make sure food and water are delivered every month
02:27<abchirk_>what do u mean with Cargodist?
02:27<abchirk_>You can also use small trains from your transfer station or as u said buses
02:28<abchirk_>But transfer is good so you can ensure constant delivery as much u need
02:33<@planetmaker>SamanthaD, cargodist only distributes cargo among available destinations
02:33<@planetmaker>thus tailor your network such that it can be delivered to where it's needed
02:34<@planetmaker>and cargodist and trunk... that's the same thing ;-)
02:41<SamanthaD>wait... cargodist got merged into trunk?! O.O
02:41<SamanthaD>also, thanks
02:41<SamanthaD>I figured out my problem
02:42<SamanthaD>I need to set the line that feeds the "counting" bus to "transfer" so that it won't just unload into the water tower
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02:53<@planetmaker>you don't need unload orders at all
02:54<@planetmaker>I don't even know why they're there
02:55<@planetmaker>hi dihedral
03:01<Xaroth|Work>got another FS# for you, pm :P
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03:02<@planetmaker>yes. I saw that. I nearly committed it
03:02<@planetmaker>But then thought that the constant definitely should keep the comment which you removed ;-)
03:02<@planetmaker>And then I thought one could define the constant right away so that it is ensured in the first place
03:02<@planetmaker>and then I had to go to work
03:04<SamanthaD>planetmaker: I found "transfer" forces the cargo to not go to the industry/city and instead linger in the station
03:04<@planetmaker>that's the purpose, you know
03:04<@planetmaker>goto A
03:04<@planetmaker>goto B
03:04<@planetmaker>and cargo will unload, if accepted
03:04<@planetmaker>nothing fancy required
03:05<@planetmaker>no special load or unload orders
03:05<SamanthaD>planetmaker: Yes, but for what I'm doing I don't want it to get used up in B. I want to transfer it to C by a truck that's scheduled to run once a month ;)
03:05<@planetmaker>and with cargodist the 'transfer' order is pointless, too
03:06<SamanthaD>oh... I get it... cargodist will make sure that there's enough to transfer
03:06<SamanthaD>>.< (me facepalming)
03:07<SamanthaD>as you can probably tell, I'm not used to the patch
03:07<SamanthaD>I like it, though
03:07<SamanthaD>a lot
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04:18<@planetmaker>hm... would be good guidelines in our forums, too :-)
04:21<Xaroth|Work>you can usually sum it up in one line though
04:21<@planetmaker>be fair and resepectful?
04:21<Xaroth|Work>Don't be a dick
04:21<@planetmaker>yeah. But that text explains what "dick" means ;-)
04:21<Xaroth|Work>that's irrelevant
04:21<@planetmaker>dicks usually don't know that :-P
04:22<Xaroth|Work>dicks don't get to argue about the definition of dicks either ;)
04:22<Xaroth|Work>if a mod tells you you're being a dick, you're being a dick
04:24<@planetmaker>then it's too late already
04:24<Xaroth|Work>but they wouldn't be stopped by a wall of 'how to behave' text anyhow
04:25<Xaroth|Work>I'd be amazed if >50% of forum visitors actually read a 'how to behave' post
04:27<@planetmaker>yes, likely not
04:28<@planetmaker>anyway I'm only searching for terrain textures :-P
04:29<@planetmaker>no point in not "stealing" from other open source games who do that well
04:29<__ln__>the freenode channel guidelines can be summarized as "don't say anything that could cause any emotions in anyone", and i don't think that's a good way either.
04:29<Xaroth|Work>that's too vague
04:29<Xaroth|Work>and too restrictive
04:29<@planetmaker>like "don't make me happy?" Sad then
04:35<juzza1>some people tend to take every single criticism as a personal attack
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04:49<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: added you to AUTHORS as contributor, so you know.
04:49<@planetmaker>but... I didn't do anything?
04:49<Xaroth|Work>you helped test the setup script?
04:50<@planetmaker>as a plain, dumb user :-P
04:50<Xaroth|Work>every developer needs a plain, dumb user to test things properly :)
04:50<@planetmaker>I don't mind, but I don't feel that I really contributed to warrant that :-)
04:52<Xaroth|Work>peter1139: do you have a working patch for head-2-head? :P
04:52<@planetmaker>why him? It's yexo's patch
04:52<Xaroth|Work>well, he has patches for everything
04:55<Xaroth|Work>would be cool to have that patch alive again
04:56<dihedral>i have a patch for head2desk
04:56<@planetmaker>I prefer a cushion for that
04:57<Xaroth|Work>hm, h2h is updated to r24502
04:57<Xaroth|Work>Yexo has been busy since that last post on the forum :p
04:57<@planetmaker>we played it like a year a go or so
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06:33<Eddi|zuHause>it's really great that the ancient romans had words for "the internet service is available" :p
06:38<juzza1>they really thought of everything
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11:21<peter1139>dihedral, remember my vpn question
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11:45<NCG3982>Didn't there used to be a Russian trainset in the online content?
12:01<@planetmaker>and there is
12:07<NCG3982>Under what name? I can't seem to find it. :)
12:09<@planetmaker>if it's not available, the authors restricted the version(s) it is available for
12:11<@planetmaker>but actually it's available just fine for me as xUSSR Railway Set
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>"Un train Corail a déraillé cet après-midi en gare de Brétigny-sur-Orge, dans l'Essonne. L'accident a fait de nombreuses victimes."
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't sound good at all
12:23<@planetmaker>accidents rarely do
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>something about train arrived at high speed, separated, and one part went over the platform
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>but my french is a bit rusty
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12:58<andythenorth>planetmaker: going to put the kids to bed, should be back online by 8pm
12:59<andythenorth>(Uk time)
12:59<andythenorth>wrt MP game :)
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13:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25589 /trunk/src/network (core/config.h network_admin.cpp) (2013-07-12 17:11:16 UTC)
13:11<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5646]: Ensure that sent and received length of json strings are the same (based on patch by Xaroth)
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13:12<@planetmaker>hello Alberth
13:12<LordAro>hai Alberth
13:12<@planetmaker>frosch123, Alberth andy just announced his presence for 8pm UK time ;-)
13:15<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r25590 trunk/src/network/core/config.h (2013-07-12 17:15:13 UTC)
13:15<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Align doxygen comments again
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25591 trunk/src/lang/japanese.txt (2013-07-12 17:45:08 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 73 changes by guppy
13:49<@planetmaker>so... which trainset do we play with tonight?
13:54<@planetmaker>doesn't work well with FIRS
13:55<frosch123>ogfx+trains or nuts imho
13:56<frosch123>does nuts already support coffee graphics?
13:56<@planetmaker>I guess not
13:57<@planetmaker>may I also add nightly opengfx+landscape?
13:57<frosch123>if you turn on the grid :p
13:57<@planetmaker>woot? No! ;-)
13:57<@planetmaker>but yes, ok
13:57<@planetmaker>might be interesting test nontheless
14:01<@planetmaker>but you don't like gridless landscape?
14:06<Xaroth|Work>what are you guys going to test anyhow?
14:07<@Alberth>who cares? :)
14:08<@planetmaker>Xaroth, the ominous game 'OpenTTD' :-P
14:08<@planetmaker>NoCarGoal, 7 years, 25k transported?
14:08<@planetmaker>^ frosch123 ?
14:08<@planetmaker>256x512 tropical map, NUTS, FIRS nightly
14:09<frosch123>planetmaker: yes, gridless landscape is damn ugly
14:10<@planetmaker>Xaroth, nothing special really... setup we like. And a new untested FIRS economy
14:10<frosch123>i loved your grid transparency patch, because it enforced that i could always enable the grid :)
14:10<@planetmaker>I still like it... the issue was with some tiles...
14:10<@planetmaker>I should probably update it
14:10<frosch123>basically gridless landscape is completely repetitive, while the grid obfuscates the repetiveness
14:10<@planetmaker>and work more on it
14:10<@planetmaker>that's another thing I want to change :-P
14:11<@planetmaker>but that's entirely different thing :-)
14:12<@planetmaker>hm, cargodist or not? Let's try with...?
14:19<frosch123>so, should ottd link the excel api to export interesting commercial data into a proper spreadsheet?
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14:26<peter1139>i have a patch for that
14:28<Rubidium>frosch123: no, it should link libreoffice
14:28<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: ah
14:28<Rubidium>all few hundred MiB of it
14:28<frosch123>Rubidium: include libreoffice into the ottd package? or make ottd a libreoffice plugin?
14:29<frosch123>we should totally turn ottd into a spreadsheet game
14:30<Rubidium>frosch123: into the ottd package
14:30<frosch123>every employee will be happy if the spreadsheet guys draw less spreadsheets, but play instead
14:30<Rubidium>after all, it should also include a web browser
14:30<Rubidium>then we can sell ottd as its own operating system
14:31<frosch123>yeah, os and browsers are completely blending into each other
14:31<frosch123>quite hard to distinguish them
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14:52<@Alberth>hi hi
14:53<@planetmaker>hey ho andythenorth #openttdcoop.nightly
14:53<SkeedR>Quick question for devs or andythenorth... Is there a reason industries seem to cluster (FIRS 1.2.0/OTTD 1.3.1/Tropical)?
14:54<@planetmaker>yes. It's made to cluster
14:54<@planetmaker>by FIRS
14:54<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25592 /trunk/src (4 files in 3 dirs) (2013-07-12 18:54:27 UTC)
14:54<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5644]: Changing the script difficulty level in-game would also change the settings using the default even though they were not allowed to change in-game
14:59<frosch123>SkeedR: farms cluster intentionally
14:59<frosch123>which adds variety to the game as you have different transport requirements for them than for other industries
15:00<SkeedR>I just find it a bit annoying
15:01<@planetmaker>play with a less annoying NewGRF. I consider it an awesome feature
15:02<andythenorth>other grfs are available
15:02<SkeedR>I like the rest of the GRF...
15:02<andythenorth>or it can be disabled if you compile
15:02<SkeedR>I can deal with it
15:02<Rubidium>and it's merely a setting
15:02<andythenorth>it's a setting in the codebase :P
15:02<andythenorth>there's no parameter
15:03<SkeedR>I'm not even going to bother asking for one ;)
15:03<@planetmaker>hehe :-)
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16:32<@planetmaker>@openttd 25230
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19:17<Thetoy>Can anyone tell me why the two combo signals in this image are red?
19:35<Thetoy>Am I in the wrong place for such a question?
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19:38<Elukka>no, but i have no idea
19:38<Elukka>i've found everything but path signals to be of such marginal usefulness i haven't used anything else for a good while
19:39<Thetoy>Well, this setup, if it worked, would allow me to only have two tracks, one for each direction
19:39<Thetoy>and it should be able to put trains in all the slots on that station
19:39<Thetoy>But obviously, it's pretty shit right now
19:41<Elukka>someone else can probably tell you exactly what is wrong with yout presignals but in the meantime you could just plop down a bunch of one way path signals and get it running
19:42<Thetoy>Yeah, I guess
19:43<Thetoy>Would that be able to handle a lot of traffic?
19:43<Thetoy>I've only been playing this game for the past 12 hours, so I know nothing :P
19:44<Dr_Tan>path signals are the master race
19:44<Elukka>i've played way too many hours but i'm a little rusty
19:44<Elukka>basically though
19:44<Elukka>, sorry, pathsignals
19:44<Elukka>path signals everywhere
19:44<Dr_Tan>I can't play with normal signals
19:44<Elukka>the only real rule is only place them where a train however long yours are can wait without blocking off a junction
19:45<Dr_Tan>when I play Simutrans or Locomotion
19:45<Dr_Tan>I don't know how to build layouts
19:45<Elukka>there are niche use cases where you need the other types of signal but path signals are the newest development that are pretty good for almost every case
19:45<Dr_Tan>because path signals
19:46<Elukka>i'm not exactly sure why but for some reason path signals seem to do what presignals are supposed to do
19:46<Elukka>so they should work in your case
19:47<Thetoy>I'll give it a try then, thanks!
19:48<Elukka>the way i recommend learning signaling is just to use path signals everywhere and then look into the other types if you really manage to run into a situation where they don't do the job
19:48<Thetoy>But the other signals sound so simple to use
19:48<Thetoy>"Is green if one or more is green"
19:49<Thetoy>Clearly, I over estimated my abilities :P
19:49<Elukka>path signals are actually easier to use besides being better :P
19:49<Thetoy>But yeah, I replace them all with path signals, and it works just the was I want it to now
19:52<Thetoy>I had to remove the ones that used to be combo signals though
19:52<Thetoy>Otherwise trains would go forward to one of those and wait
19:52<Elukka>i think just the one signal on the line before all the junctions might be enough
19:52<Elukka>...but lemme actually try this out first
19:52<Thetoy>Thats what I have
19:53<Xaroth|Work>the train might be slightly too long for the station
19:53<Elukka>i'm thinking you might not need the signals before the platforms at all
19:53<Xaroth|Work>seeing the end engine is sticking out like that
19:53<Xaroth|Work>could be messing with the exit signs
19:53<Thetoy>Yeah, it could look that way
19:54<Xaroth|Work>shorten the train by 1 carriage
19:54<Xaroth|Work>see what happens
19:54<Thetoy>You are right!
19:54<Thetoy>It's 4.5 long
19:54<Thetoy>On a 4 station
19:55<Thetoy>Is there a quick way to remove 1 carriage from the millions of trains I have on that track? :D
19:55<Elukka>can't think of one
19:55<Elukka>i'd just add a tile to the station :P
19:56<Thetoy>It's a bit cramped :P
19:58<Thetoy>Ah well, that's what I get for making a mess of it and spamming clone afterwards :P
19:59<Xaroth|Work>i always fit my trains to the station
19:59<Xaroth|Work>making them 1 carriage short if it's a single-head engine
19:59<Xaroth|Work>so that when i upgrade to a dual-head, they still don't stick out
19:59<Thetoy>That's what happened here
19:59<Xaroth|Work>not 100% efficient, but i'm too lazy to figure out how the replace thing works :P
19:59<Thetoy>They started out as single engined
20:00<Xaroth|Work>iirc there was some kind of option you could use when upgrading
20:00<Xaroth|Work>to keep the train its length
20:04<Dr_Tan>why aren't there one way signs that aren't signals?
20:04<Dr_Tan>those would be handy in some layouts
20:04<Dr_Tan>just do not enter signs
20:06<Xaroth|Work>I can't think of a layout that requires such signs
20:07<Xaroth|Work>good signal placement should compensate
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20:59<Elukka>anyone know if cargodist (which is in trunk, yay!) can now deal with non non-stop orders?
20:59<Elukka>i noticed if a train stops at a station where it's not specifically instructed to it gets an "implicit" order to stop there, which leads me to think the answer is yes
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that was the main intention behind them
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>but try to avoid situation where a train occasionally misses an inbetween stop (e.g. going to depot behind a station)
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21:06<Elukka>not a problem, i don't have maintenance on
21:06<Elukka>and vehicles never expire but i still get messages that they're too old... did i miss a setting to disable those?
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>unfortunately, you can only disable all vehicle messages, not the age message individually
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>at least the last time i played
21:23<Elukka>one more in this barrage of questions! did something change in FIRS to make industries process cargo instantly?
21:23<Elukka>i think it used to do it with a limited rate and i preferred that
21:26<Eddi|zuHause>no, FIRS never did that
21:26<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you're thinking of ECS or PBI
21:26<Elukka>weird, i was sure it did
21:27<Elukka>in game the industries even have a field for "Cargo waiting to be processed"
21:27<Elukka>an old thread about what it sets out to do mentions it's gonna do this... maybe it was just never implemented?
21:27<Eddi|zuHause>if there was ever anything that did NOT change during FIRS development, it's that andy hates stockpiles :p
21:28<Elukka>"FIRS will be more TTD-ish but eventually it will take a little while for processing industries to process output from input."
21:28<Elukka>release log also mentions a bug fixed relating to cargo processing at some point
21:29<Elukka>i remember the no stockpile thing but this isn't really about stockpiles :P
21:30<Eddi|zuHause>not sure what you're trying to tell me
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>processing speed and stockpiles are technically very closely related. and even if there was some vague idea in the beginning, there have never been serious plans developed out ot it
21:32<Eddi|zuHause>and the "cargo waiting to be processed" is a misfeature of the industry specs
21:33<Eddi|zuHause>it appears as soon as the production callback is used, and the newgrf has no way to hide it again, when it serves no purpose
21:35<Elukka>i see
21:36<Elukka>it's most likely i just remember wrong
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 13 00:00:06 2013