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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-28

---Logopened Tue Oct 28 00:00:32 2014
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02:00<supermop>what does everyone think the best way to draw roughly 3:1 builds is? one tile with three of them next to each other, or 2 tiles, with two next to each other and some leftover space?
02:01<supermop>they really just look too stubby at 2:1 or less (stubbier if i try to fit two houses with gardens onto one tile)
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02:05<supermop>i wonder if it is the worst thing to model half of these in feet and half in meters
02:07<supermop>assuming 19th C australian bricks are 8" like contemporary US and UK bricks
02:09<supermop>ill just say its 20cm
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02:42<Eddi|zuHause>houses cannot be 3 tiles long
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02:51<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: but they can be 1.5 long and .5 wide
02:51<supermop>with two next to each other and .5 tiles of garden at the back
02:52<supermop>or they can be one tile long and 1/3 wide
02:55<Eddi|zuHause>honestly, i don't understand the problem
02:56<Eddi|zuHause>you're counting bricks, and then worry that the game isn't to scale. which it never is, and never will be.
02:57<Eddi|zuHause>also, you ask us what looks better, without showing us any pictures?
03:01<supermop>i guess its less an issue of scale for the bricks - just easy to use them as a rule of thumb for a building to look consistent - on most old buildings, outer walls are two bricks thick, and all features are usually spaced by some integer number of bricks.
03:02<supermop>so you can say that you have a grid or granularity of 20cm or so and not worry about deviating from that
03:04<supermop>give me a few min and ill try to compost something in PS
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04:04<supermop>rendering just cause my computer to turn off...
04:04<supermop>not even a complex render
04:05<supermop>oh well
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04:55<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: thats sort of what i was talking about
05:08<@planetmaker>looking not bad at all, supermop
05:12<supermop>i figure on the smaller ones, maybe there is a house with some chance of being built behind (not on a roa) that just looks like 6 gardens and a laneway
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05:19<__ln__>still time to make a bid
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05:29<__ln__>however the small print says the seller doesn't guarantee the product is suitable for its original purpose.
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06:04<@planetmaker>lol. But they really sell a Panzer IV wreck for 100k€?
06:05<__ln__>yeah. it's a rarity, i suppose.
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06:06<__ln__>seven years ago a "Sturmgeschütz" was sold for 185k€:
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06:56<argoneus>good morning train friends
06:57<__ln__>you often train saying that
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>good noon train haters
07:07<__ln__>hypothetically, if i'm driving a tank on german roads, how should i interpret this sign:
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>i think that got explained to me once
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>but it never really made sense
07:09<argoneus>isn't it the length of your vehicle?
07:09*argoneus shrugs
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>i think it has to do with driving in a convoy
07:10<@peter1138>50 if single file, 30 if two-way traffic
07:10<liq3>omg there's signs relating to tanks in germany? ;o
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>that confirms my memory about it being weights, not speed limits
07:13<@peter1138>fair enough
07:13<@peter1138>100t is... quite strong for a road.
07:14<__ln__>and the klasse would appear to be roughly the weight in tons + weight of personnel + cargo
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: it's for bridges
07:14<@planetmaker>and seems that those signs are illegal in Eastern Germany according to the 2+4 treaty
07:14<@planetmaker>and being removed in Western Germany, too
07:15<@peter1138>/home/petern/src/openttd-trunk/src/core/../network/core/../../core/alloc_func.hpp:71:48: error: there are no arguments to ‘SAFEGUARD_DO_NOT_USE_THIS_METHOD’ that depend on a template parameter, so a declaration of ‘SAFEGUARD_DO_NOT_USE_THIS_METHOD’ must be available [-fpermissive]
07:15<@planetmaker>ah, till 1995. whatever. They keep it that way
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, these things confused the hell out of me when i went to west germany the first time...
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>and nobody could give a proper answer what they meant
07:18<@planetmaker>I couldn't have either until now ;)
07:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27049 trunk/src/core/random_func.cpp (2014-10-28 11:32:19 UTC)
07:32<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26482): Fix compilation with --enable-desync-debug.
07:36<argoneus>Eddi|zuHause: why did you have to ask people about them?
07:37<argoneus>"Hey, I'm sorry, can I drive past here with my Sherman or what does this mean?"
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: no, because they were unlike every other traffic sign i've seen before...
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: mind you that i was 8 at that time...
07:38<argoneus>how did you get a license for a sherman that young
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: also mind you that i grew up in an eastern block country
07:39<argoneus>m-me too
07:39<argoneus>wait, where are you from?
07:41<__ln__>*bloc (dunno why)
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: that sounds somewhat french...
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: well, germany, obviously...
07:44<argoneus>I don't consider that eastern bloc :<
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07:44<argoneus>I mean, yes, eastern germany
07:44<argoneus>but *shrug*
07:45<@planetmaker>if you had seen the border life, it couldn't have been clearer that it was that: a border between those blocks
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07:56<Jinassi>nabend, desura openttd page updated, news added, if anyone has time to check for inconsistency, please do. Critique welcome.
07:57<@planetmaker>"no pixels were harmed in the production of this version" ;)
08:01<Jinassi>News updated :P
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10:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm, so i'm concluding that despite me setting the "3D acceleration" checkmark in virtualbox, the 3D acceleration doesn't seem to be working at all...
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10:56<Eddi|zuHause>so... back to the original plan: get a "native" trial version.
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11:04<@peter1138>Hmm, I remember that working in the past, but it's been ages since I used VirtualBox.
11:11<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: did you install the drivers?
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: it came with drivers...
11:11<Sacro>the VM?
11:11<Sacro>there's virtualbox client drivers
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11:31<@peter1138>Impossible to start an xUSSR game later on...
11:35<@peter1138>Attempt to use var 24 in unsafe context (36:09:00) which returned 0037
11:35*peter1138 tuts
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11:36<@peter1138>Hmm, although it's being called at lot :S
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11:54<@peter1138>George, xUSSR uses current year to set train speed?
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12:22<V453000>wat :D
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12:39<andythenorth>is cat found?
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12:51<V453000>wtf is there no more map seed? XD
12:52<@peter1138>It was hidden, I think.
12:52<V453000>what is the option for it? :D
12:52<V453000>searching for "seed" doesnt seem to cut it XD
12:52<V453000>no matter
12:55<frosch123>console -> newgame 123
12:55<frosch123>if we get map preview, it would make sense to readd it :p
12:56<V453000>aha, 123 being the seed?
12:57<V453000>regardless, map preview would be cute :P
12:58<@peter1138>Someone™ needs to make that.
13:02<@peter1138>Yeah, 1935 -> 1936 affects speed of at least one engine.
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13:02<@peter1138>George, George, George, you can't do that.
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13:11<MTsPony>So the building flickering bug has been reappearing as of 26865 and up
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13:11<MTsPony>have been testing all the avaiable nightlies :p
13:14<@peter1138>26865 is a translations update.
13:14<MTsPony>26865 and up.
13:15<MTsPony>there seems to be gaps in between nightlies hence why :p
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13:16<MTsPony>jump from 26865 to 26903, unless im missing something
13:16<@peter1138>Well yes, there are multiple revisions during a day.
13:16<@peter1138>So 26852 does not exhibit this?
13:16<MTsPony>it does not.
13:17<MTsPony>well in that case, its since openttd-trunk-r26903-windows-win64, like you said they include multiple revisions
13:18<@peter1138>But you said 26865 does exhibit it
13:18*andythenorth ponders faster internet
13:18<andythenorth>near Didcot
13:18<andythenorth>or Swindon
13:19<MTsPony>Ehm lets redo this then. it happens since openttd-trunk-r26903-windows-win64
13:20<@peter1138>r26899 | rubidium | 2014-09-21 18:27:37 +0100 (Sun, 21 Sep 2014) | 2 lines
13:20<@peter1138>-Codechange: reduce the amount of tiles that needs to be drawn by taking the height of tiles into account instead of dr
13:20<@peter1138>awing way too many (ic111)
13:20<@peter1138>probably that
13:20<MTsPony>There seems to be confusion with building flickering, as many people i spoke to have said that high buildings have always flickered somewhat, but i can see a clear difference nightly openttd-trunk-r26865-windows-win64 and openttd-trunk-r26903-windows-win64 so its clear that this issue has increased drastically
13:20<MTsPony>Before that i never even noticed lol
13:21<@peter1138>No, I noticed. Thanks for going back and checking.
13:21<@peter1138>That tall building exceeds its bounding box...
13:22<MTsPony>sorry for being a nitpick
13:23<@peter1138>Nah, I just want to clear it up, as it's a pain searching through the individual revisions when you get the range wrong :)
13:24<MTsPony>yeah, forgot for a sec 1 nightly with a gap contains all the patches in between too lol
13:24<@planetmaker>"bug in NewGRF"? :D
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13:25<@peter1138>planetmaker, default graphics.
13:25<@peter1138>r26899 changes the algorithm so that's a likely culprit.
13:25<@planetmaker>still, if the bounding box is wrong...
13:26<@planetmaker>then just amend openttd.grf by a properly bound one
13:26<MTsPony>Planet, i am aware the buildings always flickered but it increased dramatically since
13:26<MTsPony>oh and yeah, i didnt try without TTRS before, but it now also does it with original baseset graphics :p
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13:26<MTsPony>good point
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13:29<@peter1138>planetmaker, default bounding boxes are in tables, not grfs.
13:29<@peter1138>Trying to get the house ID, but I can't see it :(
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13:30<@planetmaker>sprite aligner gives you spriteID
13:30<@planetmaker>that gives you then in turn houseID
13:31<@planetmaker>hm... but from which table? Possibly need to check opengfx source
13:31<@peter1138>Why opengfx?
13:31<@planetmaker>because that has documented source for base set
13:32<@planetmaker>and only that
13:32<@peter1138>src/table/town_load.h is the table I'm talkingabout.
13:33<andythenorth>Iron Horse is changing vehicle lengths
13:33<andythenorth>wonder why
13:33<andythenorth>openttd is cross about it, all over my shell
13:33<@peter1138>Responding incorrectly to a callback?
13:33<@planetmaker>then use the spriteID from there and check ID with
13:34<@peter1138>Searching that file for the sprite ID was far easier :p
13:35<@peter1138>(And house IDs don't help anyway)
13:36<@planetmaker>well then :)
13:37<@peter1138>Anyway, even with the bounding box fixed, it still flickers.
13:41<@peter1138>Building 26898 to check it :_)
13:41<@peter1138>make[1]: Warning: File `/home/petern/src/openttd-trunk2/objs/release/config.cache.compiler' has modification time 0.019 s in the future
13:41<@peter1138>oh now!
13:41<@peter1138>Why is my internet laggy :S
13:42<@planetmaker>you know, next year is the year which they travel to in "Back to the future" :)
13:42<@peter1138>Yeah, I have a second lag :S
13:42<@planetmaker>at least II
13:42<@peter1138>Makes typing hard.
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27050 /trunk/src/lang (irish.txt korean.txt) (2014-10-28 17:45:28 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>irish - 62 changes by tem
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by telk5093
13:46<@peter1138>Yeah, perfect in 26898.
13:47<@peter1138>Despite the incorrect bounding box :)
13:47<frosch123>planetmaker: peter1138: the bounding box has no effect at all btw
13:48<frosch123>you can set z_Extent to a random value > 10, and it makes no difference
13:48<frosch123>bounding boxes only affect the sorting of sprites, but the flickering is caused because sprites resp. tiles are not even cosidered to be drawn
13:50<@peter1138>Yeah I didn't think it would, to be honest.
13:51<@peter1138>Having the bounding box means you're already evaluated the tile, which is too late.
13:51<@peter1138>Now trying 26899 :_)
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>man, why did nobody ever tell me i suck at civ?
13:53<@peter1138>Yeah, flickers.
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14:00<@peter1138>Seems like a lot of new code to avoid drawing :p
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14:01<frosch123>i think the old method did not consider tile height levels
14:01<frosch123>so maybe it flickers now on all height levels as it did before only on height 15?
14:01<@peter1138>I have noticed a glitch when drawing north-facing step slopes.
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14:02<@peter1138> int viewport_bottom = + _vd.dpi.height + 116;
14:02<@peter1138>I guess that 116 is the new value.
14:02<@peter1138>Previously it was 241...
14:03<frosch123>@calc 241 - 116
14:03<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 125
14:03<@peter1138>Seems too big a difference.
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14:08<frosch123>@calc 8*15
14:08<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 120
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14:09<frosch123>well, MarkTileDirtyByTile has a 154 :p
14:09<frosch123>many random numbers without relation :)
14:10<@peter1138>Isn't there also a newgrf setting to increase the height (which we probably ignore)
14:10<frosch123>yes, the newgrf thingie has always been bollocks
14:10<V453000>remove newgrfs!
14:11<frosch123>it only patched on of ViewportAddLandscape or MarkTileDirtyByTile
14:11<V453000>lol, yeti download apparently didnt finished yet the newgrf remained functional
14:12<V453000>but with corrupted sprites error :D
14:12<V453000>removed the tar and tar gz from the folder, redownloaded, voila
14:12<frosch123>yeah, the md5sum only validates the code part in the front, not the sprite part
14:12<@peter1138>Even going back to 241 doesn't fix it :S
14:13<@peter1138>(Although it's better)
14:13<frosch123>does it need a * ZOOM_LVL_BASE or something?
14:13<frosch123>though that would be a lot more :p
14:16<V453000>holy shit, generating map with the same seed has industries on the same places and towns too, even buildings
14:17<@peter1138>Yes, that's... because it's the same seed.
14:17<frosch123>well, yes, as long as you do not change any settings or ottd version
14:17<V453000>peter1138: that isnt how it was before :P
14:17<@peter1138>Always was.
14:17<V453000>only landscape was same
14:17<V453000>towns and industries differed
14:18<frosch123>V453000: it was the same, as long as you did not change settings (including newgrF), or ottd version
14:18<@Alberth>you aren't complaining, are you? :p
14:18<V453000>interesting :)
14:18<V453000>am not, but apparently I always changed at least something :p
14:18<V453000>I suppose even newgrfs which dont influence towns/industries matter
14:19<frosch123>town names possibly, but vehicle grfs unlikely
14:21<V453000>basically I just wanted to create the same map with different town/industry layout :D
14:22<V453000>scenario editor ftw? :D
14:22<@Alberth>load height map?
14:22<frosch123>yes, heightmap sounds way easier :)
14:23<V453000>the generator is nicer
14:23<frosch123>V453000: we mean: generate with same seed, save as heightmap, load as heightmap -> different industries/towns
14:24<V453000>how do I save as heightmap and why wont heightmap generate same towns/same industries? :D
14:24<V453000>oh a menu button
14:24<V453000>shiny as fuck
14:24<frosch123>"save heightmap" is in the menu like for 3 years or something :p
14:25<V453000>oh fucking christ it is only in SE
14:28<V453000>okay, why does creating a new game with same settings create SAME town/industry layouts, and creating a new game from heightmap with same settings yields DIFFERENT results? :D
14:28<@peter1138>Becuase its' not using the same seed...
14:29<frosch123>V453000: ouch, you mean loading heightmap does not result in new heights? sounds like a bug :p
14:29<frosch123>why are there even two options? generate map and play heightmap?
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14:33<@Alberth>people that do not understand the first option can try the second option
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the portion of the seed that is consumed to generate the terrain is not consumed when loading a heightmap, so the town generator starts with a different seed
14:40<V453000>right :D
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14:52<@peter1138>How do you specify the seed when loading a heightmap?
14:52<V453000>you dont XD
14:53<@peter1138>Which makes Eddi|zuHause's point moot :)
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14:58<insulfrog>hello all
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15:10<headbang>Hi im a bit New to openttd its running smooth but trying to figure out how upgrading old trucks
15:10<@peter1138>autoreplace yay
15:11<headbang>Yes is that included or an extra script
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15:12<headbang>It seems to be replacing.the current cars with the same
15:12<headbang>And I don't have that menu where u choose what to
15:12<headbang>As shown on the wiki
15:13<headbang>Now it does
15:13<headbang>Sorry don't bother about it then
15:14<headbang>Weird thou I swear it wasn't there.just yet
15:14<headbang>Anyways great job to all involves
15:18<__ln__> <-- the highest bid was 213k€
15:20<insulfrog>I'm thinking of doing an openttd let's play, did some recording about 2.5 hours worth of recording but havn't uploaded yet (each vid is less then 15 mins due to Youtube limits) just want to make sure that its ok to start uploading. It's by no means anything brill because its my first time doing such a hobby and I don't have much experience in it either :)
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15:22<@peter1138>insulfrog, are you using OpenGFX or zBase base graphics?
15:23<insulfrog>I am using the original, as I like the classic feel
15:23<andythenorth>what is the emoticon for :rolleyes:
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15:25<@planetmaker> maybe?
15:25<frosch123>planetmaker: go to bed :)
15:26<insulfrog>plus I find it less resourse intensive peter
15:26<andythenorth>have I grokked cdist correctly now?
15:26<andythenorth>I think that’s how it works, based on using it in 4-5 games
15:27<frosch123>insulfrog: did you notice, the youtube player has changed 3 times the past 3 days
15:27<@planetmaker>yes, I should
15:28<insulfrog>I didn't noticeas I was watching stuf on youtube over the last few
15:28<TomyLobo>what's the autosave option called? i cant find it anymore
15:28<@peter1138>insulfrog, good, cos it looks the best.
15:29<insulfrog>this is my first experience of this so I am not expecting it to be brilliant by any means
15:29<TomyLobo>found it
15:30<TomyLobo>it was under "game options"
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15:32<insulfrog>as I learn new 'tricks to the trade' as it were, I'll gain experience plus the videos my look a little better especially as I try out new hardware and software and other things that might make all the difference between success and failure
15:33<frosch123>i don't think the hardware affects your success in ottd much
15:33<insulfrog>its not the ottd side, its the recording side that can make the difference
15:36<insulfrog>I am using BB Flashback Express Edition as it is free to use and register and I found it quite easy to use and it runs generally well on my system
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15:39<insulfrog>I would like to make sure that I will enjoy doing this let's play before I start moving onto payware like Fraps or upgrading my existing one to standard or pro
15:43<insulfrog>playing ottd is fine and even if a very old system can take it. What takes the strain is the recorder. To do anything somewhat decent, you need a system with good specs
15:44<@peter1138>Or if you have a recent nVidia card, use its built in h.264 encoder.
15:47<andythenorth>“goto Slumberton with refit to Coal OR Iron Ore”
15:47<andythenorth>isn’t a thing
15:47<andythenorth>which is a shame
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>use autorefit?
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15:49<andythenorth>cdist will find it very hard to establish and maintain links with autorefit
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>that got fixed (allegedly)
15:50<frosch123>what makes you think coal or ore would be better?
15:50<frosch123>are there many other cargos than coal and ore available at the station?
15:51<insulfrog>its not that recent I'm afraid, I bought the computer in 2004(?)
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15:53<andythenorth>frosch123: only coal and ore available
15:54<frosch123>so, coal or ore is just as much info to cdist as is autorefit
15:54*andythenorth will just try it and see what happens
15:54<andythenorth>autorefit should be binned imho
15:54<andythenorth>but let’s see
15:58<andythenorth>autorefit is per-wagon
15:58<andythenorth>that’s clever
16:00<frosch123>should i leave irc and join the forums? :p
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>probably not :p
16:01<insulfrog>depends on if you need to post anything on the forums :)
16:02<andythenorth>is /me being dumb?
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16:02<frosch123>you just complained to trash something, and then discovered it's basic behaviour
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16:02<andythenorth>I was….wrong
16:03<andythenorth>this is...unusual?
16:03<frosch123>it's usual on the forums
16:04<andythenorth>it’s more unusual that I’m correct
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16:08<insulfrog>unfortunatly, OBS Project can't work in an XP environment as it requires Direct X 10, that's why I chosen BB Flashback Express to begin with as it works in an XP environment
16:09<andythenorth>what has changed in cdist in last few months?
16:09<andythenorth>I’m just not seeing any odd routing in this game
16:09<andythenorth>which wasn’t the case before
16:09*andythenorth -> logs
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16:10<andythenorth>hmm nothing much
16:10<andythenorth>maybe I was just doing it wrong
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16:14<Wolf01>hi hi
16:16<insulfrog>I may build myself a PC in the near future with the 'mod cons' as it were but unfortunatly, its the time, funds and room to put it which are the problems at the minute
16:16<frosch123>you mean you do not have enough space for a new pc?
16:16<andythenorth>FWIW, my laptop can record insane amounts of video
16:16<andythenorth>I don’t think you need a high spec PC for screen recording
16:17<insulfrog>my specs are: Intel P4 with HT Tech (~3 GHz with 2 threads), Win XP Home, use to have 1 GB Ram but upgraded to 3 GB Ram, Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX with 256MB, SB Audigy 2 series sound card with suround, got headset with mike
16:17<frosch123>that is fine for a machine from 2004
16:18<insulfrog>yeah, it was, I bought it from Dell
16:19<andythenorth>turns out I cycle past the yogscast office most days :o
16:19<insulfrog>it had a one or two setbacks but it has done me proud
16:19*andythenorth was looking into “let’s play” stuff :P
16:19<frosch123>andythenorth: they host talk shows, not let's plays :p
16:19<andythenorth>is there a difference?
16:19<insulfrog>they do alot of minecraft
16:19*andythenorth is not very in the loop
16:20<andythenorth>it’s all just people talking over video to me
16:20<@peter1138>XP :(
16:20<@peter1138>P4 :(
16:20<@peter1138>Audigy :(
16:20<@peter1138>But, oh well :)
16:20<frosch123>andythenorth: yes, a let's play is when you can tell the game from the video
16:20<andythenorth>do yogscast just talk bollocks on youtube?
16:20<frosch123>yes :p
16:21<andythenorth>I only saw their “let’s play ottd"
16:21<frosch123>well, there are different people on the yogscast
16:21<andythenorth>16 years left to beat SV
16:21<andythenorth>50% of cargo transported
16:21<frosch123>but if you consider the two main ones, i would consider their target audience as < age 16
16:21<insulfrog>I think Yogscast Sips has done OTTD, not sure whether its still on-going or not
16:22<frosch123>yes, sips calls ottd one of his favorite games
16:22<frosch123>usually he makes the other ones play it once a year
16:22<frosch123>usually around christmas
16:23<frosch123>but if you want the actual let's plays you need to look at some levels lover
16:23<frosch123>like masterhellish or someone
16:23<frosch123>all the people who play rct and prison architect and such, usually also play ottd
16:27<insulfrog>there are some videos on openttdcoop but not let's plays, perhaps there maybe there's a small gap to fill in there :)
16:30<frosch123>pff, you don't say "brb" for 3 minutes
16:30<frosch123>noone would notice
16:30<insulfrog>just thought I be polite :)
16:31<frosch123>it's impolite to leave within 3 minutes after asking a question
16:31<insulfrog>its habbit :p
16:31<frosch123>because someone may have started typing :p
16:34<insulfrog>well yeah i see your point, my bad :)
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16:45<andythenorth>au revoir and all that
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17:15<argoneus>au reservoir
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18:15<George>peter1138: Yes, xUSSR set uses current year to set train speed
18:16<George>This feature represents the driving rules (max speed)
18:17<George>It is used for a wide range of engines
18:17<George>Also vehicle age affects max speed too
18:17<@peter1138>Yeah, well you can't do that.
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18:18<@peter1138>It will, 100%, cause desyncs in multiplayer.
18:18<George>I did that for years and it worked well
18:19<George>And how can I represent this historical feature of the set?
18:20<George>Would it be safe in case the speed changes on service?
18:21<@peter1138>Yes, date of last service is safe.
18:21<+glx>if it happens for everyone at the same time it's safe
18:21<George>date_of_last_service < date(1972,1,1)
18:21<George>construction it speed switch
18:23<George>And is vehicle age is safe or not for speed CB?
18:24<@peter1138>Not safe.
18:25<@peter1138>Turns out quite a lot isn't safe, but most are irrelevant anyway.
18:26<George>Are there other problem like that?
18:28<@peter1138>It's difficult to tell without building many combinations of vehicles :(
18:28<@peter1138>This one was obvious because it affects the purchase list.
18:31<@peter1138>I see var 62 is used as well but I'm assuming because that's part of the graphics selection routine, rather than part of a callback result.
18:31<@peter1138>This stuff is really flexible but also quite messy :)
18:34<@peter1138>That is pretty damn big.
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18:40<+glx>yeah just watched it
18:45<supermop>good morning
18:46<supermop>or whatever time of day it is for you
18:46<frosch123>15 minutes till good morning
18:46<+glx>well not morning but tomorrow
18:46<supermop>never hurts to be early
18:49<supermop>V453000: how do you crop your renders down to spites/ensure that you are always rendering tiles in the the same place or resolution?
18:50<@peter1138>He doesn't crop!
18:50<@peter1138>But let's not go there :)
18:50<@peter1138>In theory nmlc can auto-crop, though.
18:51<supermop>to mock up the thing i posted on the forum i just scaled it by eyeball in PS
18:51<@peter1138>It messes up with child-sprites, but you shouldn't need them.
18:51<supermop>ohh i certainly want child sprites!
18:51<@peter1138>Oh... why?
18:51<fonsinchen>We should check for all those unsafe newgrf properties and instead of executing them throw an error in the user's face. This is terrible.
18:51<@peter1138>Oh right, I remembmer now.
18:52<@peter1138>fonsinchen, I have a patch for that.
18:52<@peter1138>fonsinchen, there are difficulties though.
18:52<+glx>you have patch for everything
18:52<@peter1138>(That patch is what I'm using to look at, say, xUSSR.)
18:52<supermop>the somewhat stupid conceit of the 'set' if it ever comes to exist, is using modular techniques to create a vareity of standardized vernacular buildings
18:53<supermop>so for a certain cottage, the front porch or garden can differ
18:53<supermop>so far ive drawn one cottage and one terrace (2 floors) each with 3 possible 'fronts'
18:54<fonsinchen>The whole system is way too complicated to ever be safe. Maybe we should just axe half of the newgrf spec and declare the rest "safe for multiplayer subset". Then only interpret the safe part in multiplayer and ignore the rest.
18:54<supermop>i want to go a bit further and have parts of the fronts that change too - like is there a balcony, a shrub planted in front, etc
18:55<fonsinchen>You can count down now until Eddi|zuHause complains. I'll go to sleep now.
18:55<frosch123>target grf v9 :p seperate callbacks from each other
18:55<frosch123>nml already does that
18:55<frosch123>so, it's easy to port nml grfs
18:55<supermop>that way the whole set needs maybe one or two each of a small house, a big house, a pub, an apartment
18:55<supermop>and there are just aesthetic variations of them
18:57<supermop>if thats too hard, maybe ill just make the 'house' a tile of 2-3 houses, with those house graphics as a whole child sprite each
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19:19<supermop>i guess if there are only 10 house variants but three houses per tile one could still effectively get 1000 different houses in your game
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19:55<insulfrog>night all
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19:56<@peter1138>Hmm, av8 determines speed based on year too :S
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23:48<supermop_>how many lights do you use Pikka ?
23:48<Pikka>3, but there's no rhyme or reason to that. I just added and modified until it looked good. :)
23:49<Pikka>one directly overhead, one to the front-right "sun position", and one behind the camera to fill in shadows slightly.
23:50<supermop_>yeah i need moreambient
23:50<Pikka>that was the effect of adding the overhead one :)
23:51<Pikka>(obviously the materials and the textures on the top two changed slightly too)
23:52<Pikka>but they look much more solid if they don't fall off to black so much at the back
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 29 00:00:33 2014