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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-11-02

---Logopened Sun Nov 02 00:00:39 2014
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01:09<Flygon>Yes, that does mean the Sydney M-sets do run Windows 2k as their computer OS
01:09<Flygon>Now we just need to load OTTD onto it
01:09<Flygon>And play it on a train
01:09<Flygon>Stuffed my client up
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01:42<Pikkaphone>I heard you like trains
01:42<Pikkaphone>so we put some trains on your train
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01:45<supermop>here i am wearing shades as i read irc
01:45<supermop>because my glasses broke...
01:45<Sylf>YETI has ballooned to over 500MB...
01:47<V453000>just 5X?
01:47<V453000>fat slug
02:11<Pikkaphone>yeti is a little ridiculous. :)
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02:16<V453000>NO! :D
02:16<V453000>how dare you say that Pikka
02:17<Pikkaphone>Oh I dare
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02:20<Pikkaphone>is the yeti workers version out yet?
02:21<Pikkaphone>is that why it's 500mb?
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02:24<@Alberth>yetis have been working very hard, collecting lots of bits
02:27<V453000>no, just an extra industry Pikkaphone
02:27<V453000>8x4-ish with a lot of animation
02:27<V453000>equals shitload of size apparently
02:28<V453000>some yeti workers were added but not many
02:28<V453000>they shouldnt increase the filesize drastically anyway
02:28<Pikkaphone>what is the new industry?
02:30<V453000>trading merchant
02:30<V453000>between building materials and food
02:31<V453000>well, bdmt -> food, not the other way around :)
02:32<Pikkaphone>kraken merchant?
02:32<V453000>well it isnt kraken anymore :D but yes
02:32<Pikkaphone>do bdmt and food do different things?
02:33<V453000>a bit
02:33<V453000>food increases production of yetis
02:33<V453000>bdmt doubles that bonus
02:33<V453000>but if you deliver only bdmt and no food, bdmt isnt even processed
02:34<V453000>you need about 5 times more food than bdmt :)
02:36<V453000>currently it does not really matter which way you choose - making more food just by sending more yetis to the farms, or by trading at the merchant, later trading should be more efficient
02:36<V453000>will see
02:42<Pikkaphone>still a little ridiculous :)
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02:50<V453000>tha refinery needs MORE pipes
02:50<V453000>doing immediately
02:50<V453000>got a pipefixing yeti, need him to get more work
02:50<V453000>no slackin
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03:19<Pikkaphone>no slack in the pipes?
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03:26<V453000>no slack
03:26<V453000>how is Pikkaphone progressing with his shit?
03:28<@peter1138>Sounds like a matter for pikka and the bowl.
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03:36<Pikkaphone>actually, I finished uni last week
03:37<Pikkaphone>and am starting a big project next week
03:37<Pikkaphone>so any newgrfing is going to have to happen this week.
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03:45<V453000>sounds nice enough
03:48<Pikkaphone>if Dan would get back to me with sprites it would be
03:48<V453000>mhm :)
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04:21<TomyLobo>a while ago i asked for a way to migrate trains to monorail/maglev without doing everything at once
04:21<TomyLobo>someone recommended nutracks
04:21<TomyLobo>i just tried that and it merely introduces new rail types with varying speed limits
04:22<@peter1138>universal railtype
04:24<TomyLobo>nice, exactly what i want
04:24<TomyLobo>thanks a lot
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04:31<V453000>am going to try to model my first steamer
04:31<V453000>how many times will I shit pants Pikkaphone ?
04:31<V453000>it looks complex
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04:58<Dakkus>Hi peoples!
04:58<Dakkus>Is there any generic way of recognizing a small aircraft?
04:59<Dakkus>I'm playing with av9 and the usual list of course doesn't apply to it as the planes are not the same.
04:59<__ln__>it doesn't flap its wings
04:59<Dakkus>So... An albatross is a small aircraft but an MD-83 isn't?
05:00<Dakkus>How about in OpenTTD? ;)
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05:22<Pikkaphone>V: depends how "realistic" you're going to get. It doesn't have to be that complex.
05:24<Pikkaphone>Dakkus: in av9, jets are big and non-jets are small. You could set a different livery colour for small aircraft if you can't tell?
05:27<Dakkus>Pikkaphone: Ah, read about that livery idea but didn't get it. Now I did. Thanks!
05:29<Dakkus>Okey-dokey. My small airplanes now have red engines. Thanks again :)
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05:47<@peter1138>ah, bad features, huh?
05:47<Pikkaphone>V: are your locos going to be yeti dude ride ons?
05:47<Pikkaphone>where, peeta?
05:47<@peter1138>liveries :p
05:47<argoneus>good morning train friends
05:48<Pikkaphone>different colors for different vehicle types? olde openttd feature.
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05:48<@peter1138>olde bad feature
05:48<Pikkaphone>is it bad?
05:49<Pikkaphone>I like it
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05:49<@peter1138>Was 16 railtypes too low? Cos I had a patch to make it 32...
05:50<Pikkaphone>far too high
05:50<@peter1138>I'm sure that's bad too.
05:50<Pikkaphone>4 is plenty
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05:53<TomyLobo>peter1138 better would be a patch to combine rail types in a square :)
05:53<TomyLobo>at least two of them
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05:56<frosch123>peter1138: cets has 60 items in the rail translation table. compare that with its 54 items in the cargo translation table
05:56<frosch123>so, considering that we have at max 32 cargos, i guess we need at least 64 track types
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05:57<frosch123>of course that requires a searchable and filterable railtype menu
05:59<frosch123>ideally newgrf could define 16 dropdown boxes to select from different underlays, gauges, weights, and electrification systems
06:00<Pikkaphone>stop that ridiculous "realism" at once.
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06:03<V453000>Pikkaphone: no, NUTS :)
06:04<Pikkaphone>they could still have yeti dude drivers. :)
06:04<V453000>those are probably too bigz :)
06:05<frosch123>maybe they are smaller after they worked
06:05<V453000>animal express will have yeti drivers
06:06<frosch123>i see, yetis riding on slugs
06:06<frosch123>be careful about bridges and tunnels :)
06:08<frosch123>i like how sylf deduces the acceleration model from a station layout :)
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, in steam, how can i view what the last popup message was? they always disappear before i can read them...
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't work... :/
06:21<Rubidium_>### Eclipse Workspace Patch 1.0
06:21<Rubidium_>#P USH
06:21<Rubidium_>Index: source/server/com/eurailscout/ush/server/
06:21<Rubidium_>--- source/server/com/eurailscout/ush/server/ (revision 1145)
06:21<Rubidium_>+++ source/server/com/eurailscout/ush/server/ (working copy)
06:21<Rubidium_>@@ -13,7 +13,6 @@
06:21<Rubidium_> import java.rmi.RemoteException;
06:21<Rubidium_> import java.sql.SQLException;
06:21<Rubidium_> import java.util.ArrayList;
06:21<Rubidium_>-import java.util.Arrays;
06:21<Rubidium_> import java.util.Collections;
06:21<Rubidium_> import java.util.Comparator;
06:21<frosch123>@ban Rubidium_
06:21<Rubidium_> import java.util.Date;
06:21<Rubidium_>@@ -353,9 +352,16 @@
06:21<Rubidium_> return this.covurServerWrapper;
06:21<Rubidium_> }
06:21<frosch123>@mode +q Rubidium_
06:21-!-mode/#openttd [+q Rubidium_!*@*] by DorpsGek
06:21<frosch123>wrong mouse button :)
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06:41<@peter1138>andythenorth_, alright I'm stumped, how do I get OS X on this? :S
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07:14<frosch123>Alberth: can you read pickle output? :p
07:15<@Alberth>convert to JSON ?
07:15<frosch123>somehow, if i pickle the parser output of a 120k nml file, it results in 570k pickle data
07:16<@Alberth>trees are bigger than input text :)
07:17<@Alberth>pickle is not recommend in general, it's python version specific and insecure
07:17<frosch123>well, but it can store and recreate any classes
07:17<frosch123>with json i think i would be limited to plain dict and list
07:18<@Alberth>I think so too, unless you do more work
07:21<frosch123>ah, i see, it pickles half of nml source :p
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>i use pickle for temporary storage, but it's probably not useful for transferring data
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07:50<__ln__> (sfw)
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: now imagine someone in 50 years digging out the first iphone presentation
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08:00<Wolf01>hi hi
08:01<__ln__>by then the iPhone has probably become a two-dimensional object, while they keep innovating it 0.1 mm thinner every year.
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>i think in 50 years they won't have anything in their hands anymore...
08:04<Wolf01>but it will keep the same volume, if you noticed the last iphones were thinner but larger, with a bidimensional iphone they will wrap the entire Earth
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08:10<Eddi|zuHause>that may be possible, but it will ultimately mean that it will disappear again from the landscape, when a new quantum leap happens
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>like when nokia missed the quantum leap to smartphones
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09:21<@peter1138>Why do the forums look like ass on a mobile browser?
09:21<@peter1138>Apparently random font sizes.
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09:25<Wolf01>the web is not for mobile, mobile should have apps for everything or dedicated web versions, but that mean to rool back to early Y2K
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09:29<Wolf01>and my coworker still think that responsive web designs are the right thing... just because it's nice to see a structure which changes when you resize the window
09:30<Wolf01>I think that is useless to load 800Kb of javascript to handle all that on a mobile devicce which is not resizable
09:30<Wolf01>800Kb minified and compressed
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12:00<Jinassi>nabend, Vinnie, how did it go yesterday? I missed the whole show on reddit server1.
12:01<Jinassi>or peter1138, surely you have tried something
12:05<V453000>? :D
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12:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27053 /trunk/src/lang (latin.txt vietnamese.txt) (2014-11-02 17:46:34 UTC)
12:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:46<@DorpsGek>latin - 2 changes by Supercheese
12:46<@DorpsGek>vietnamese - 145 changes by nglekhoi
12:47<@peter1138>Vinnie? heh
12:48<@peter1138>Jinassi, I guess it was destroyed or something, the company wasn't there later.
12:48<@peter1138>But disasters are on, so...
12:50<V453000>MODELING BR82
12:50<V453000>am almost spraching german
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13:09<andythenorth>Slow day
13:09<@peter1138>andythenorth I can't OS X :(
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13:12<@Alberth>hi hi
13:12<V453000>yo andythenorth, NUTS will be realistic
13:12<V453000>wat u sez
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13:15<andythen_>It already is
13:15<andythen_>Highly realisms
13:15<V453000> !!!
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13:43<@peter1138>Which andythenorth is the real one?
13:44<@peter1138>You are right, though, that MacBook runs Linux nicely. Until I can find an OS X ISO or something :S
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13:48<andythenorth>peter1138: did it have a USB key with it?
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13:48<andythenorth>does it have an ISO on it?
13:48<@peter1138>With an HFS+ filesystem, with a .CDR file on it.
13:48<Nathan1852>Does anybody know if there is a way in coop that both players get the same money?
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13:48<Xaroth|Work>Nathan1852: join the same company?
13:49<andythenorth>maybe we just send you a 10.6 DVD :P
13:49<andythenorth>I thought that’s what we were doing
13:49<@peter1138>I wrote the .cdr file to a USB stick directly, but it doesn't boot :(
13:49<andythenorth>but not
13:49<@peter1138>And I don't have a DVD writer capable of writing more than 4.7GB :S
13:50<@peter1138>Silly image, being 7.2GB, hah
13:53<@peter1138>Maybe unetbootin will make it boot from USB, but I'm not sure how compatible that is with Macs.
13:54<Nathan1852>Xaroth: We are in the same company
13:54<Nathan1852>And he gets double the amount i get
13:55<@peter1138>The company gets money, not you.
13:55<@peter1138>If his money is showing double, it's probably in a different currency to you.
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14:06<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, 1£=2$ in game logic
14:08<andythenorth>peter1138: I don’t think it will boot from USB for that OS X
14:08<andythenorth>bit old
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14:40<andythenorth>gold on SV
14:40<andythenorth>without cheating
14:40<andythenorth>10 years left out of 50 :)
14:40<andythenorth>frosch123: another fun game ^ ;)
14:41<headbang>hmm if im playing openttd in a window and switch to it from the my mouse acts funky
14:41<headbang>cause it has some focus on the list on the website
14:41<headbang>if i leave the website the game responds normal again
14:51<andythenorth>also that was hm4.png, first decent map I’ve seen in ages
14:51<andythenorth>peter1138: “got any more?”
14:53<@peter1138>Not right now :)
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15:57<Wolf01>well, night
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16:09<George>Hi. Is it possible to check if vehicle (train) goes across snowed land or not?
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16:12<@planetmaker>good evening
16:14<frosch123>George: it's possible for sprite selection, but not for changing vehicle properties
16:15<frosch123>yes, that one is fine
16:15<George>Good. How to check that?
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16:19<George>And would it be safe to change RC on snow?
16:19<frosch123>snowline_height - var[0x9E, 3, 0xFF]
16:22<frosch123>the result is the height above/below snowline in heightlevels
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16:23<frosch123>i am not exactly sure where the snow starts exactly though
16:23<@planetmaker>3/4 snow cover is where snowline height is at
16:25<@peter1138>Day-glo green :S
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17:03<@peter1138>Gah, zBase sucks with rgb recolours.
17:05<supermop>recoloring grass?
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17:11<@peter1138>Recolouring the usual suspects.
17:12<@peter1138>zBase only uses one of the colours, not all 8, so it's all fucked up.
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17:13<supermop>like only one of the 8 shades of CC?
17:13<supermop>doesn't it just mask a cc area over a greyscale area?
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17:15<supermop>i thought the go-to way to do CC on rendered 32bpp sprites was to leave the area to be colored grey, and then mask out that shape to be shaded in with color
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17:16<@peter1138>Superficially. Brightness level 128 means use the remap colour's brightness.
17:18<@peter1138>zBase varies the brightness and uses 1 colour in the mask, which is why everything with a recolour looks flat and crap.
17:18<supermop>how does pikka do it?
17:18<@peter1138>The 8 CC colours vary in hue as well as brightness.
17:19<@peter1138>In 10cc, he ignores recolours completely and has just drawn different versions of the vehicles in different colours.
17:20<supermop>how does the game choose which to use with only the CC information?
17:20<@peter1138>It doesn't, the NewGRF chooses.
17:21<supermop>well this is all far beyond my understanding
17:22<supermop>but does that mean one can 'recolor' with a texturre or image instead of a color?
17:22<@peter1138>Sure, the recolour "mask" is actually just a regular 8bpp sprite, but most of it is transparent.
17:24<supermop>could one choose between reddish, brownish, orangish, or grey bricks on a house in this manner or is that i bit too far?
17:24<@peter1138>Yeah, you can use recolours for that.
17:25<supermop>would it be better than just having different sprites for the different brick colors?
17:25<@peter1138>Probably more work to be honest.
17:26<@peter1138>The original buildings do use recolouring quite frequently, though.
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's tricky to get the mask right when you use antialiasing on the image
17:27<supermop>to be honest i was thinking more for painted trim am plaster, assuming those could be different pastel shades
17:28<supermop>or that i could choose one random pastel shade for the plaste and one random dark shade for timbers and wrought iron
17:28<supermop>today i am trying to model wrought iron in a way that looks good and not messy at scale and its a pain
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17:32<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: i found a handful of shorter prototypical houses around, but they are certinly a minority
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17:33<supermop>i'll still likely throw a few in, but i assume they will predominate as they are easier to plaace
17:33<@planetmaker>pink... pastel pink are what the houses in this quarter are "traditionally". Looks a bit funky but one gets used to
17:33<@peter1138>This code is nasty :(
17:33<@peter1138>Oh well.
17:33<@peter1138>I doubt RGB recolours will ever see the light of day :p
17:34<supermop>planetmaker: the cc pink is not quite pastel unfortunately
17:34<@planetmaker>supermop, you can also make your own recolour sprites :)
17:34<supermop>wait, peter1138 are you talking about hypothetically recoloring cc to any rgb value?
17:34<@planetmaker>no need to resort to the CC pink necessarily
17:35<supermop>planetmaker: maybe magenta cottages would liven things up a bit
17:35<supermop>you know what would be cool - if funded industries take the CC of their founder
17:36<@planetmaker>supermop, you may be surprised... that can be the case. And can be enforced so by NewGRF
17:36<@planetmaker>not sure whether default do, those which have CC colours
17:36<supermop>if i'm paying hundreds of billions of yen to build an oil refinery, i can live with other companies using it, but less so with the builders painting it pink without consulting me
17:37<@planetmaker>paint it pink, too!
17:38<supermop>well i guess i could begrudgingly switch my cc to match
17:40<supermop>i've been using green or orange (gold?) since 1994 but lately i've taken a liking to 'light blue'
17:40<supermop>looks good with the yellow warning panels on the original temperate trains
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: you're not limited to the CC colours for recolouring, you can make your own colour map (out of the original palette)
17:41<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: cool
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17:44<supermop>oooh fiancee is using some cool text editor that colors bits of your code depending on what language you write in!
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17:44<supermop>'sublime text'
17:47<frosch123>supermop: <- there are some syntax highlighting rules for popular editors
17:47<frosch123>if you using windows, the standard editor for coding is "notepad++"
17:48<+glx>and you can add custom languages in it too
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17:50<Eddi|zuHause>there are still editors that don't do that?
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17:50<supermop>i used regular notepad last time i updated the grf i had 3-4 years ago
17:50<supermop>i dont recall it being fun
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm, anyone remember the time when "a trilogy in four parts" was meant ironically?
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>nowadays, every trilogy seems to come in four parts...
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>because the 3rd movie gets a part 1 and part 2
17:54<frosch123>that does not only hold for triologies
17:54<frosch123>but for all series
17:54<frosch123>like a septology turning into an octology
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17:55<argoneus>good night train friends
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>and the winner is peter jackson, who turned one book into three movies :p
17:56<+glx>a big book
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17:58<frosch123>yeah, it could be faster to read the book, than to watch the movies :p
18:00<__ln__>glx: Eddi is referring to Hobbit, not LotR
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18:01<frosch123>310 pages vs. 500 minutes
18:04<__ln__>i wonder what kind of a movie this book would convert into:
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18:08<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: something like a tarantino movie where the same 15 minute scene is repeated from 8 different perspectives
18:08<frosch123>"lola rennt" was rather boring
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure i've ever watched that in full
18:09<frosch123>sounds confirming :p
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>i found at some point that i don't actually enjoy watching movies, so i basically stopped, except for a few times per year in the cinema
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>and i concentrated on TV series
18:17<frosch123>i never liked any series past the age of 12
18:21<+glx>__ln__: I knew :)
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18:33<Eddi|zuHause>it was probably too difficult to make a panel with non-continguous numbers on it :p
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 03 00:00:41 2014