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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-01-01

---Logopened Thu Jan 01 00:00:07 2015
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02:25<andythenorth>what does {CARGO_LONG} expect as parameters?
03:00<Eddi|zuHause>what do the specs say?
03:00<Eddi|zuHause>good yearing
03:05<andythenorth>I don’t know where detailed specs are for this, and google finds nothing
03:05<andythenorth>I am using
03:05<andythenorth>and also guessing by reading Silicon Valley
03:06<andythenorth>ottd src will know I guess
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03:07<Supercheese>Well, {CARGO_LONG} is "XX tons of stuff", no?
03:07<Supercheese>or crates or whatnot
03:07<andythenorth>I think the problem is internal to this GS code
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03:16<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like it should say this here:
03:16<Eddi|zuHause>but page seems outdated
03:16<Supercheese>I would presume it requires two bits of data, one for cargo amount, and one for cargo type, no?
03:21<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: google found me that page, but yeah, outdated
03:22<andythenorth>Supercheese: id, amount
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04:09-!-Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
04:09<Rubidium>andythenorth: ?
04:12<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose $someone should consolidate all these docs
04:13<Rubidium>oh... hmm... it's not NML he's talking about
04:13<Rubidium>then it's probably different...
04:15<andythenorth>also HNY etc :)
04:15<Rubidium>but yes, cargo_long/short/tiny are cargoid + amount
04:21<andythenorth>not sure where that should be documented :)
04:38<Rubidium>irc:// ?
04:45<andythenorth> :P
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>in case anyone missed it: :)
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>(sketch is in english with a short german introduction)
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05:34<@peter1138>"NO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION INTENDED!" Yeah that's how it works...
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05:44<andythenorth>what is this openttd in the browser thing, other than a party trick?
05:44<andythenorth>and creating space for some ads that probably pay low and perform badly
05:47<andythenorth>I don’t think I belong in the the problems forum
05:47<andythenorth>I should probably hide it
05:48<andythenorth>also I no longer understand the Iron Horse thread
05:48<andythenorth>but nvm
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06:05*andythenorth awaits alberth
06:07<V453000>new year, happiness, stuff
06:09<andythenorth>lo V
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06:14<V453000>starting the year off with some 3D modelz :)
06:15*andythenorth is shocked
06:15<andythenorth>I thought your 2015 resolution was to go back to drawing pixels, as god intended
06:15-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
06:15-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
06:16<andythenorth>ah there he is :)
06:16<andythenorth>summoning works again
06:16<andythenorth>lo Alberth
06:17<@Alberth>here I am, with a very new Fedora21 OS :)
06:17<LordAro>is it shiny?
06:18<andythenorth>new year, new OS
06:18<@Alberth>hopefully, I just did a basic install
06:18<andythenorth>I fixed cargo name display in the goals
06:19<@Alberth>no doubt I'll be missing lots of details here and there
06:19<andythenorth>but I don’t like how I did it
06:19<andythenorth>passing ‘cargoes’ along a stack of functions
06:19<@Alberth>doesn't sound good indeed
06:19<andythenorth>maybe it’s just me, but I really dislike writing code that passes bazillions of function params
06:19<@Alberth>no, it's not just you :)
06:19<andythenorth>for stuff that’s safely global to the environment
06:20<andythenorth>I see it done a lot though :)
06:20<LordAro>needs more objects :P
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06:20<andythenorth>most of the stuff I work on has the idea of context
06:21<andythenorth>and you trust the context to provide the right things
06:21<LordAro>Rubidium: copyright notices are outdated, btw ;)
06:21<andythenorth>anyway, I pushed it, read the diff to see what I did :)
06:21<andythenorth>next, fix goal progress updating
06:21<andythenorth>which I didn’t do as I wasn’t sure if it was unfinished, or done-but-buggy
06:22<LordAro>eventually i'll write some squirrel again
06:22<LordAro>now that i actually understand programming
06:22<andythenorth>squirrel is ok
06:22<andythenorth>bit overly fond of pointless chars
06:23<andythenorth>; and such
06:23<LordAro>it's not python, y'know :p
06:24<andythenorth>they’re optional in javascript too
06:24<andythenorth>although it’s actually really ugly to omit them in JS
06:24<LordAro>and dangerous, iirc
06:25<@Alberth>what's wrong with goal updating?
06:25<andythenorth>updates the timeout, but no display of % transported
06:26<andythenorth>although there is code to do that
06:26<andythenorth>seems not to be called afaict
06:26<andythenorth>oops UpdateDelivered
06:26<andythenorth>no s
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06:27<@Alberth>it doesn't until you deliver something :)
06:27<@Alberth>I don't link the ticks display though
06:28<andythenorth>I have a savegame with cargo being delivered
06:28<andythenorth>maybe I should check that again :P
06:29<@Alberth>it's not updated on delivery, but later, once every X days
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06:36<andythenorth>afaict % transported is over-written by timeout
06:36<andythenorth>they write to the same progress column :)
06:36<@Alberth>I fixed that
06:36<@Alberth>maybe I didn't commit/push?
06:36<andythenorth>mayb :)
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06:39<@Alberth>doesn't seem to be the case
06:42<@Alberth>hmm, openttd doesn't run anymore :p
06:43<andythenorth>ho ho
06:43*andythenorth bets on freetype
06:45<@Alberth>liballeg :p
06:46<@Alberth>but I am missing lots of other libs too, it seems
06:48<andythenorth>port update *
06:48<andythenorth>or whatever
06:48<andythenorth>I’m assured it’s all 100% wonderful :)
06:48<andythenorth>whenever I complain about the state of deps on OS X
06:50<@Alberth>a bit more subtle, but yeah :)
07:04<@Alberth>works for me
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07:06<@Alberth>me updates
07:09<andythenorth>(different GS idea) set a goal per town, the aim is to clear the map (meet goal fo every town)
07:09<andythenorth>every n years, GS founds a new town
07:11<@Alberth>shouldn't we add a few parameter settings for things like that?
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07:13<@Alberth>I agree your change doesn't look nice :)
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08:48<Taede> <-- wrt to the industry info window, should a bug report go to the industry newgrf or to openttd?
08:49<Taede>assuming thats not an intended result of course
08:50<@Alberth>newgrf, I think
08:50<@Alberth>standard openttd has no "estimate"
08:50<andythenorth>Alberth: yeah my change was to prove it’s a fix :)
08:50<@Alberth>andythenorth: how do I test it?
08:51<andythenorth>generate a goal?
08:51<@Alberth>I made some changes, and it should still work, but proving that needs testing
08:51<@Alberth>any goal?
08:51<andythenorth>the issue was that I had <invalid cargo> in my goal window for some goals, or wrong cargos (compare goal window and console)
08:51<@Alberth>I have been using opengfx+ and never seen any problem
08:53<andythenorth>either you fixed it locally and I don’t have your changes for some reason, or there was a coincidence with the original cargo ids
08:53<andythenorth>I didn’t see until I put it on FIRS arctic basic
08:53<andythenorth>but I think it was occuring before then and I didn’t notice :)
08:53<@Alberth>k, let's try that
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08:53<@Alberth>you know which cargo to look for?
08:54<andythenorth>was pretty frequent for me
08:54<andythenorth>pretty much all were invalid or wrong
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08:54<andythenorth>up the prior rev and try?
08:54<@Alberth>fair enough :)
08:55<@Alberth>I found a few more points where indices and cid were mixed up
09:01<@Alberth>andythenorth: pushed a nicer solution
09:02<@Alberth>ie put the entire cargo data into the goal, instead of just the index
09:04<andythenorth>appears to work :)
09:05<@Alberth>engineering supplies gets printed correctly :)
09:07<andythenorth>btw, I was thinking of masking out some cargos, ENSP and FMSP being prime cases
09:07<andythenorth>probably optionally
09:09<@Alberth>could mask out town cargoes or industry cargoes too
09:09<@Alberth>so you can play town-only, or industries-only
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09:20<Eddi|zuHause>if you mask out "feedback cargos", how do you detect which ones are those?
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. workers, or vehicles, or...
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>basically, the same discussion as with cargodist. except you can make different choices
09:23<@Alberth>make a list of options
09:23<andythenorth>just tie it to certain newgrfs
09:23<andythenorth>the whole “GS is in a black box wrt newgrfs’ is nonsense
09:24<andythenorth>do it as progressive enhancement though
09:32<andythenorth>Alberth: I’ll bin my current game (the goal texts stay borked) and start a new one tonight
09:32<andythenorth>for testing :)
09:32<andythenorth>the goal texts are just bad data from previous version
09:34<@Alberth>/me hopes so
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09:48<Eddi|zuHause>"sex between a male and a female silicon lifeform would take longer than the universe is old"
09:50<Flygon__>I thought the internet's done the three plus four on that already
09:50-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>well, theory is that such a lifeform would consist of silicon chain molecules, like we have carbon chains, and such molecules we can create, but only at really low temperatures. and at such low temperatures, chemical reactions happen at a very slow pace
09:53<Flygon>Yeah, but this's the Internet we're talking about
09:53<Flygon>It's likely there's already an artistic representation of this
09:53<Flygon>Hyvaa yota
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10:00<Gantradies> are there any modsor something
10:00<Gantradies> that allow you to set astation
10:00<Gantradies> to refuse to "stock' atypeofcargo, ego accept it from industries?
10:01<Gantradies>cause ive jsuthad antoher massiehub station distroedby a farm randomly being buiuld in itscachment area
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10:02<Gantradies>TLDR: for somestupidreason, thehub station for my factory is now filling up with grain and livestock and refusing to accept it. howcan i prevenmt it from EVER happening Again, and fixthe current issue WITHOUT demolishing tghe station sndstarting fomr scratch
10:02<Gantradies>cause it took me HORUS to set up T_T despireate for advice
10:04<@Alberth>fixed in 1.5, as in, wait long enough and the station will stop accepting
10:05<@Alberth>simplest way to ensure vehicles never drop or pickup cargo at the wrong station is to always use "go non-stop" orders
10:06<@Alberth>and not force unloading
10:07<@Alberth>but now you're too late. Simplest is to just ignore it
10:09<Gantradies> i dont know why this keeps happening to me
10:09<@Alberth>how does the cargo end up there?
10:10<Gantradies> T_T the canals took ages to set up, and i madethem early on
10:10<Gantradies> ok, something was wrong with my spacebar, fixed it
10:10<@Alberth>no point in retrying until you understand what happened or is happening
10:10<@Alberth>is it still growing?
10:11<@Alberth>does it happen when a vehicle stops there?
10:11<@Alberth>does the vehicle have force unload or so?
10:12<Gantradies> as far as i can see, the station is recieveing both grain and livestock form a nearby farm,
10:12<@Alberth>clearly, if the station is for a factory, the station should accept it. Is the factory gone?
10:12<Gantradies> but AFAICS there arent any inside the cachment area
10:12<@Alberth>ah, ok
10:12<Gantradies>its still very much there
10:13<@Alberth>so you tried picking up grain and livestock from it
10:13<@Alberth>probably right after unloading
10:13<@Alberth>if you didn't set "no load"
10:13<Gantradies> i jsut cant FIND any party of teh station that owuld be in rage (i have a habit of expanding my cachments using lorry and bus depots, mainly for passanger stations, which this hub is also starting to serve as)
10:14<Gantradies>yeah, its still SLOWLY creeping upwards
10:14<Gantradies> think it'd be practical/possible for the devs to add a sub-munu to the station ui for forceing a station not to accept certain cargo?
10:15<Gantradies>i occasionally had this problem back i nthe 90's/00's back i nthe retail version, but because you coudlnt get the max station size anywhere near as large it wasnt that bad
10:16<Gantradies>half the timev what happens is a random primary industry is built near a factory/mill as a Random even, and i dont notice untill quite a few years later, hwen i notice the bottom has dropped out of my income
10:17<Gantradies>( i tend to do VERY long-range ship routes, so my news ticker tends to be flooded with complaints about ships loosing money in this year on a 2-4 year long route, wish you coudl tunr of the notificatison for individual vechicle trypes)
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10:18<@Alberth>technically you can add more knobs and bolts, and so, the question is, is that the right solution?
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>Gantradies: the only thing you can do is use "unload and no loading"
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10:19<@Alberth>so far I have never considered the details of cargo transport and what can go wrong there
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10:19<Eddi|zuHause>there is really nothing else that will help you in any way
10:20<@Alberth>magic bulldoze the farm :)
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>that won't get rid of the excess cargo
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>that you bring back and forth with no place to unload
10:21<@Alberth>yeah, it needs your order too
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10:53<Gantradies>*sigh* given my luch with town expansion/ new industries, that means im goign ot have to expressly do that on EVERYTHING
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10:57<andythenorth>why is the excess cargo costing you money?
10:58<andythenorth>excess cargo is a non-issue
10:58<@Alberth>after unloading, wagons pick up the cargo, go back, and don't pick up the 'real' cargo
10:58<andythenorth>oh that issue
10:58<@Alberth>ie they drive back and forth without making any money
10:58<andythenorth>you always have to set ’no load’ at drop offs
10:59<andythenorth>assuming cdist
10:59<@Alberth>in this case no cdist needed, even
10:59<@Alberth>just an industry supplying the same cargo to the destination is enough
11:00<andythenorth>well ‘no loading’ is everyone’s friend :)
11:01<@Alberth>I usually forget it as well :)
11:02<@Alberth>but my catchment area is small, so not a big problem
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11:04<andythenorth>I guess a newly built industry could cause this problem
11:04<andythenorth>I’ve seen it, but rarely
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11:10<Wolf01>happy new year to all the train friends
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11:13<@Alberth>/me adds self to train friends
11:13<@Alberth>thanks! same to you
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11:32*andythenorth has been distracted
11:32<andythenorth>Lego hauling 1.5kg of wooden blocks
11:33<andythenorth>same creation but with the gearing flipped from 12:20 to 20:12
11:33<Wolf01>are you experimenting with traction effort for your new grfs?
11:33<andythenorth>absolutely definitely
11:35<andythenorth>building the narrowest possible strong axle using one motor per wheel
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11:35<Wolf01>I see what you did it there... put your photostream in the favourites
11:35<andythenorth>I did what?
11:35<Wolf01>the photostream
11:35<andythenorth>flickr is terribly confusing to andythenorth
11:36<andythenorth>I only just found ‘rotate'
11:36<andythenorth>still can’t figure out delete :P
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11:38<Wolf01> <- looks like an "old ai was there"
11:39<andythenorth>all of that is now in pieces :)
11:39<andythenorth>4 years of children at it
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11:48<andythenorth>wonder if this truck would peforrm better or worse with actual spring suspension
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11:48<andythenorth>instead of just relying on the chassis twisting
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12:46<Wolf01>yumm, time to get another year of credit in my phone
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13:04<@Alberth>andythenorth: pushed better display of remaining time
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13:27<andythenorth>Alberth: I’ll test in a bit
13:27<andythenorth>hopefully I get a few hours clear tonight :)
13:28<@Alberth>kids not tired due to staying up late, yesterday ? :)
13:30<andythenorth>nah, asleep at standard time
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>the earlier you send them to bed, the earlier they are awake
13:33<@Alberth>it's good for kids to go to bed early
13:33<@Alberth>and for us too :)
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13:36<andythenorth>sometimes they can go to bed late and get up at 5am
13:36<andythenorth>no particular patterns
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13:44<Eddi|zuHause>well, it only works if done regularly
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise you just get jetlag
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13:55<supermarioman>hey guys
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14:25<@Alberth>andythenorth: configurable number of goals
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14:38<andythenorth>ho ho awesome
14:38<andythenorth>Alberth: are you around a while, or bed soon?
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14:38<@Alberth>for an hour or so
14:38<andythenorth>I have to finish some chores then start a game :)
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15:38<Wolf01>same happened here, in sardinia, hotels offered to keep them for some time, they want big cities
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15:50<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27102 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2015-01-01 20:50:43 UTC)
15:50<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6194]: money values would end up wrong in strings when outside of the bounds of a 32 bits integer
15:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27103 /trunk (60 files in 4 dirs) (2015-01-01 20:51:18 UTC)
15:51<@DorpsGek>-Update: copyright date
15:51<Wolf01>oh, it's the time to do that again
15:53<Rubidium>Wolf01: though it wasn't my idea ;)
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16:08<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27104 /trunk/src/script/api (script_list.cpp script_list.hpp) (2015-01-01 21:08:19 UTC)
16:08<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6194]: support 64 bits integere in the ScriptLists as well
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16:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27105 /trunk/src (town.h town_cmd.cpp) (2015-01-01 21:25:42 UTC)
16:25<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6195]: grow_counter was not properly bounded by growth_rate, but by some other value used to calculate growth_rate.
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17:39<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r27106 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2015-01-01 22:39:35 UTC)
17:39<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6176]: Use the actual max speed of the vehicle in front when determining if a RV can overtake.
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21:33<mek42>Hope everyone is having a good year so far! Speaking of beginnings, which newgrf do people like using for early start games (early 1800s)?
21:36<Supercheese>Sailing Ships, UKRS or NARS
21:36<Supercheese>SQUID, HEQS
21:36<Supercheese>eGRVTS for the horses
21:37<Supercheese>there's also an Early Rail set for the very first experimental steam locomotives, but it has a few issues
21:37<mgpl>same, sailing ships, eGRVTS for horses, UKRS. i start from 1830
21:39<mek42>thanks - do you have any preference for industry sets?
21:40<mgpl>i use FIRS
21:45<Supercheese>FIRS is great, ECS works too and there's even PBI
21:45<Supercheese>and, of course, YETI
21:57<Sylf>I like OpenGFX+ Industries too
22:21<mek42>i'll have to research these other choices - giving it a whirl after some time away and have only used FIRS / ECS in the past. I like the offshore fishing in FIRS
22:35<Supercheese>ECS has similar fishing grounds, no>
22:37<ST2>and why not add a cookie factory (with the obvious cookies as demand for town)?
22:38<ST2>right, cookies factory already exists ^^
22:39<ST2>so, already done xD
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23:30<mek42>I did not see fishing grounds in early start ECS
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23:54<Supercheese>The ag. vector has them apparently
---Logclosed Fri Jan 02 00:00:08 2015