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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-02-27

---Logopened Mon Feb 27 00:00:02 2017
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00:37<supermop>well that was odd
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03:46<@Alberth>hi hi, V
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 27 05:05:42 2017
---Logopened Mon Feb 27 05:05:50 2017
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06:00<Samu>check it out
06:01<Samu>year 1948, on the left with the running costs pausing while loading/unloading, on the right with default 1.6.1
06:02<Samu>don't look at year 1947, only a few months were counted in that
06:08<Samu>about 13%, 14% less running costs
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06:14<crem>Not that large difference.
06:20<Samu>it's something
06:21<Samu>should benefit close distances much more than long distances
06:26<@peter1138>but it's wrong
06:26<Samu>i guess for busses, the costs would be about the double
06:27<Samu>they have to unload, then load, they stay a bit longer
06:27<@peter1138>it was always by design that running costs continue
06:27<@peter1138>newgrfs can control it as well
06:28<Samu>i only did this to non-drive through road stops
06:28<Samu>standard road stops
06:29<Samu>bool pause_running_cost = this->current_order.GetType() == OT_LOADING && IsStandardRoadStopTile(this->tile);
06:29<Samu> if (!pause_running_cost) { this->profit_this_year -= cost.GetCost(); SubtractMoneyFromCompanyFract(this->owner, cost);
06:31<Samu>i tested NARS newgrf
06:31<Samu>it does something strange in the vehicle details
06:32<Samu>the running cost per year is changed
06:32<@Alberth>your code is wrong, openttd is not the place to solve these problems, a NewGRF must do it instead
06:32<Samu>changes when it's loading/unloading train
06:33<@Alberth>a NewGRF author is in control how those costs work, so you cannot override that behavior
06:34<Samu>i dunno how to make a newgrf, or maybe I know, but I'm not in the mood
06:34<Samu>i made a few, simple newgrfs before
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06:36<@Alberth>I am just saying that what you can technically do is not necessarily a good solution, or a viable solution
06:37<@Alberth>due to rules or agreements elsewhere made
06:39<Samu>can I keep the running cost per year in the vehicle details with a newgrf, while still achieving the same behaviour of pausing running costs?
06:40<Samu>if it's -£500/yr and the vehicle is loading, i'd still want it to display -£500/yr instead of £0/yr
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06:47<@Alberth>that sounds wrong
06:47<@Alberth>if the vehicle loads for a whole year, you didn't pay 500 pound
06:52<Samu>it is misleading
06:53<Samu>i guess it's never the correct value
06:55<Samu>if the vehicle is stopped in the depot, it still says -£500/yr
06:57<Samu>if I stop the vehicle manually, it still says the same
06:57<Samu>you see what i mean
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07:06<@Alberth>I do, Samu. I think the best you can do is show the current cost, which is also what openttd does
07:07<Wolf01>Still trying to break grfs?
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07:14<Samu>uh, openttd doesn't always show the current cost
07:14<Samu>the real running cost of a stopped vehicle in the depot is £0
07:15<Samu>if it's stopped the entire year, it's still £0
07:15<Samu>and yet it displays -£500/yr
07:48<Samu>hmm, should the engines still be off when the vehicle is "Leaving" a station but is blocked by another road vehicle entering the station?
07:49<Wolf01>Do you turn off the engine while waiting behind another vehicle?
07:50<Samu>i don't know, i don't drive
07:50<Samu>in the game is says "leaving" but it has yet to move or play the engine sound
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07:51<Samu>i think the engine is off
07:52<@peter1138>still requires maintenance
07:52<@peter1138>nah that's depot costs
07:52<@peter1138>whatever the reasoning was :p
07:55<Wolf01>The drive through roadstops loading system should be reviewed, with 2 vehicles the one which is loading should always be the first one in line, if you are merging 2 lines on the same roadstop then you are doing it wrong :P
08:01<Samu>got it
08:03<Samu>this->current_order.GetType() == (OT_LOADING || OT_LEAVESTATION) - is this good coding?
08:03<Samu>whatever, gonna tyry
08:03<Samu>warning C4805: '==': unsafe mix of type 'OrderType' and type 'bool' in operation
08:06<Samu>bool pause_running_cost = this->current_order.GetType() == OT_LOADING || this->current_order.GetType() == OT_LEAVESTATION && IsStandardRoadStopTile(this->tile);
08:06<Samu>better, but longer
08:06<Wolf01>Is there a OrderTypeByte or something?
08:07<Samu>there is OrderType
08:08<Samu>enum OrderType
08:08<Wolf01>Below that, there's some other definition?
08:10<Wolf01>BTW, I would do this "this->current_order.GetType() && (OT_LOADING | OT_LEAVESTATION) > 0", but I don't know if it's really correct
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08:13<Wolf01>Also, I asked for this "typedef SimpleTinyEnumT<OrderType, byte> OrderTypeByte;"
08:13<Wolf01>Which is 2 lines below
08:13<Samu>oh, sorry, :(
08:15<Samu>testing the same savegame, now with OT_LEAVING as well
08:15<Wolf01>Btw, it might need some bitshifting as they aren't flags
08:15<Samu>running cost savings should increase
08:16<Samu>let's see...
08:19<Samu>it was with only OT_LOADING
08:20<Samu>from -£15,200 to -£13,160, to -£13,124 with OT_LEAVESTATION
08:20<Samu>barelly a difference, because my road vehicles are actually not waiting much in the stations
08:23<Samu>might need a heavily congestioned savegame, an AI perhaps
08:33<Samu>nice, it works, i just had to simulate a vehicle blocking another from exiting the station
08:34<Samu>this might happen more often when breakdowns are enabled
09:11<Samu>tested a RoadAI savegame
09:12<Samu>5000 road vehicles, running costs went from -£4,959,499 to -£3,533,194
09:13<Samu>about 28% less
09:13<Wolf01>Still think that is the AI which should be fixed
09:14<Samu>roadai only using buses
09:14<Wolf01>So I do
09:19<Samu>hmm, buffing buses wasn't exactly what I had in mind...
09:20<Samu>my idea was more of a short distance buff for road vehicles
09:20<Samu>buses actually fit this criteria quite nicely :(
09:21<Samu>oh well
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09:37<supermop__>ok i've drawn up trolleybus wires
09:37<supermop__>as intended they make a huge mess at X junctions
09:39<@Alberth>intended mess :)
09:40<supermop__>now just need to code them
09:40<supermop__>should it be a wire only grf? or part of a road set?
09:43<@Alberth>one grf for each vehicle :)
09:44<@Alberth>nah, just throw it all together, imho
09:44<@Alberth>you can always just disable the vehicles of it :)
09:46<supermop__>ah i mean as part of a set of roadtypes
09:47<supermop__>but yeah
09:48<supermop__>i wonder, is there or will there be a way to block a certain roadtype from having a certain tramtype, or vis versa?
09:49<supermop__>eg no tram on highway, no dirt road on higher speed light rail etc
09:53<@Alberth>there is this "powerdness" concept, that decides when a vehicle has power, not sure if that extends between trams and roads
09:53<Wolf01>I think he means to not being able to build a tramway over a highway
09:54<@Alberth>not so much tram/road combinations are forbidden, more that some combinations are utterly useless :)
09:54<supermop__>yes, what Wolf01 is saying
09:55<@Alberth>don't remember discussions about this aspect, but that doesn't mean much
09:56<supermop__>also, currently trolleywire just seems to be front and back, whereas i vaguely recall that train catenary has the wire itself/ and the supports
09:56<Wolf01>It's a huge compatibility-shit, but in future it should be done
09:56<@Alberth>also not sure what the point is of forbidding it; sure it'll look weird, but if that bothers you, don't do it?
09:57<supermop__>in the future i might be interested in differentiating the support pylons a bit -
09:57<Wolf01>Could say the same of disabling level crossings
09:57<Samu>just posted
09:58<supermop__>i drew my wires as the kind you see in older towns, where a hanger wire is strung across the street and holds the conducting wire
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09:59<supermop__>as opposed to the sort of high tension with strut in the ogfx/foobar's trollewire
10:00<supermop__>it might be nice to have light rail, and modern trolley trucks have that more catenary type look, whereas mining roads and old streetcar lines have the hung wire
10:00<supermop__>problem is, what if i build modern light rail over old fashioned trolley bus street
10:01<supermop__>there is no way to change the trolleybus wire to be more modern - so maybe better to disallow and avoid mess of pixels
10:07<supermop__>it's academic at the moment as i have not drawn any 'fancier' wires yet
10:07<supermop__>but thinking about it led me to ponder other cases, like the tram on a highway
10:08<supermop__>or - what if i abuse tram to make a gondola. you could of course build roads under a cable path, but maybe it looks bad in some cases
10:13<supermop__>if i have a grf that defines a new catenary for ELRD and ELRL, any other new roadtypes defined by a later grf in the list will not use the new wires, right?
10:19<supermop__>anyone know of a gpl set with nice looking tram tracks i can steal?
10:27<Samu>i have another idea, which I had years ago
10:27<Samu>maybe now I can code it
10:27<Samu>nerf trains
10:27<Samu>by increasing running costs based on the number of wagons
10:28<Samu>or perhaps based on train size
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10:29<Wolf01>It's already done through power, more wagons, more power required to move them, not enough HP? The train won't reach full speed (maybe even half of that) and you pay the same for a slower train
10:30<UntouchedWagons>Hi there, what environment do you guys use to compile openttd?
10:32<UntouchedWagons>I've tried to compile openttd on anything that'll work and it's driving me up the wall
10:37<LordAro>UntouchedWagons: what have you tried?
10:37<UntouchedWagons>I've tried cygwin32, cygwin64, mingw32, mingw64 and visual studio
10:37<UntouchedWagons>the first four all fail to compile because the compiler can't find various networking related data structures. Visual studio fails with over 600 errors
10:38<LordAro>have you read ?
10:39<LordAro>i probably can't help much more then, given i'm currently lacking any windows programming environment
10:39<LordAro>it *does* work though, i assure you
10:39<LordAro>although it's definitely not the easiest to set up
10:41<UntouchedWagons>compiling on windows has never struck me as remotely easy
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10:41<LordAro>well, that too
10:45<UntouchedWagons>I think this is how alcohol abuse starts
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10:49<UntouchedWagons>The compile errors if anyone compiles openttd for windows:
10:52<Samu>i use windows 10
10:53<Samu>microsoft visual studio 2015
10:53<Samu>update 3
10:54<Samu>it compiles fine for me, but sometimes visual studio is dumb
10:55<LordAro>UntouchedWagons: that's very curious set of error messages
10:55<LordAro>looks like some sort of defines are being set when they shouldn't be
10:55<LordAro>i don't know enough of the details though, you'd be best waiting for frosch or similar to appear
10:56<supermop__>trolleywire grf name: "Spool" or "Unspoolled"?
10:56<Samu>when visual studio is acting stupid, i sometimes resort to starting everything all over, delete entire folders, etc..., from scratch
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10:56<Samu>visual studio caches many crap, and sometimes this cache is wrong, outdated or whatever...
10:57<Samu>if i start over from scratc,, i usually succeed
10:58<UntouchedWagons>In the tutorial on the wiki for VS2015, it says to put the headers/libraries for openttd-useful before the default ones which I've done, but I still get the C4430 error
10:58<UntouchedWagons>among other numerous errors
10:59<@Alberth>it seems you're missing a network library
10:59<Wolf01>The default ones must be replaced, it won't work with those
11:00<@Alberth>or rather, an include file, but it picks up a different file with the same name, or you'd get "missing include file"
11:01<UntouchedWagons>I don't think I follow Wolf01
11:01<UntouchedWagons>I'll check for any network libraries in the cygwin repos
11:03<UntouchedWagons>when I run "./configure --with-lzo2=/usr/lib/liblzo2.dll.a", it does say "checking network... found" so I don't know what's going on
11:04<Wolf01>Or the best you can do is to make a .user file where you load the openttd-useful, so you can share it between project without editing the project files
11:04<@Alberth>it does find something network, or #include of the network file would fail
11:04<@Alberth>instead, it fails to know stuff that is supposed to be defined in that included file
11:05<@Alberth>that means, it considers a file to be a network-related file, which is not actually a network file
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11:06<Wolf01> <-
11:06<Wolf01>Replace the ENV vars I used with the actual paths
11:07<Wolf01>$(VC_LibraryPath_x86);$(WindowsSDK_LibraryPath_x86);$(NETFXKitsDir)Lib\um\x86 <- these always break things
11:07<Samu>Money Train::GetRunningCost() const - MUAHhahahahah
11:07<Samu>time to nerf
11:08<Wolf01>I used to get rid of them and magically the build succeeded
11:08<UntouchedWagons>so what where would I put this file?
11:08<Wolf01>Name it vs140.vcxproj.user and put it in the project folder
11:08<UntouchedWagons>oh okay. I'll try that
11:09<Wolf01>VS automatically loads it
11:09<UntouchedWagons>I'd still open the sln file right?
11:09<UntouchedWagons>all right, I'll give it another go
11:10<Wolf01>Oh, also you need to use openttd-useful 6.1 iirc
11:10<Wolf01>Or it was 5.1 -> 6.0
11:10<UntouchedWagons>I'll need a link to that, 404's
11:11<UntouchedWagons>I've got 6.0 already
11:11<Wolf01>Then it should be ok
11:12<Wolf01>5.1 doesn't work with VS14
11:12<Samu>multi-headed, multi-engine, consist
11:13<Samu>i need to familiarize with these terms
11:13<Samu>"Get the next real (non-articulated part) vehicle in the consist."
11:13<Wolf01>(]-[]-[]-[]-[) - multi-headed
11:14<Wolf01>(]-(]-[]-[] - multi-engine
11:14<@Alberth>who needs 2.5D ghraphics if lines of ASCII art suffices :)
11:16<Samu>i wonder what exactly a "vehicle" is in train language
11:16<Samu>are there articulated wagons?
11:16<UntouchedWagons>yeah there's articulared wagons
11:16<UntouchedWagons>those flatbed cars that hold the shipping containers share boggies
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11:17<Samu>i need a newgrf with an articulated wagon, for testing
11:17<Wolf01>Vehicle is almost anything not tied to the map
11:17<Wolf01>Trains, buses, ships, shadows, sparks, smoke...
11:20<Wolf01>An articulated wagon/engine is composed by multiple vehicles
11:21<Wolf01>So "Get the next real (non-articulated part) vehicle in the consist." means the next wagon/engine, not the next vehicle (which could be the other half of the engine)
11:25<UntouchedWagons>all right I'm gonna try compiling openttd with that .user file
11:26<UntouchedWagons>655 errors...
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11:28<@Alberth>error count has not much meaning, most errors are caused by earlier ones
11:31<Samu>if (e->u.rail.running_cost_class == INVALID_PRICE) continue;
11:31<Samu>so, wagons have INVALID_PRICE
11:31<UntouchedWagons>No I don't
11:32<Samu>INVALID_PRICE aka 0
11:32<Samu>must nerf
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11:40<UntouchedWagons>so yeah Wolf01 that file didn't work
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12:04<supermop__>can i just set ELRD and ELRL catenary without setting all the other properties for the roadtype
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12:13<frosch123>@seen andythenorth
12:13<@DorpsGek>frosch123: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 9 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <andythenorth> also bed
12:13<frosch123>i guess the sharks got him
12:15<frosch123>i wonder whether or*dge will ban everyone who posted in the change-username topic :)
12:17<supermop__>hi frosch123
12:26<V453000>slugsharks for sure
12:27<@Alberth>or pythonsharks
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12:30<V453000>or those
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12:37<Samu>calculating train vehicle lenght is hard
12:37<Samu>it must have been done before, have to find
12:41<Samu>CeilDiv(u->gcache.cached_total_length * 10, TILE_SIZE)
12:41<Samu>let's try
12:45<Samu>hmm nop
12:49<Samu>hmm so, a train of size 0,5, is actually size 5
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12:49<Samu>1,0 is 10
12:49<Samu>ok, got it
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13:12<Samu>how do i calculate the lenght of a multi-headed train?
13:12<Samu>or are both parts always the same lenght?
13:13<Samu>if one is 5, the other is also 5?
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13:27<supermop__>if i define a new catenary for ELRD in one grf, and then load another grf that defines a roadtype that uses default catenary, there is no way to make that subsequent roadtype use the special catenary i defined?
13:28<frosch123>there is only one global catenary
13:29<frosch123>and then catenary per road/tram type
13:30<Samu>so, a single headed engine can be articulated
13:30<Samu>this is a mess for me :(
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13:30<UntouchedWagons>try compiling openttd and you'll see what a mess is
13:31<ST2>I use VS 2013 and compiles like a charm
13:31<ST2>some warnings, but expected, due the applied changes
13:31<Samu>are there multi-headed engines that are not articulated?
13:31<Samu>isn't it inherently articulated if it's multi-headed?
13:32<UntouchedWagons>I've tried 5 different build environments and I can't get it to compile
13:33<Samu>multi-articulated-headed engines
13:35<Samu>this is harder than i initially thought
13:37<Samu>cached_veh_length is not the lenght of the vehicle, but the lenght of the articulated part of this vehicle
13:38<Samu>if there are 2 parts, i only get the lenght of 1
13:38<Samu>what can I do?
13:39<@peter1138>it's definitely already calculated
13:40<Samu>hmm then im doing this wrong
13:40<supermop__>can i just replace the global cat?
13:41<Samu>uint16 veh_len = CeilDiv(v->gcache.cached_total_length * 10, TILE_SIZE);
13:41<Samu>uint16 unc_len = CeilDiv(v->gcache.cached_veh_length * 10, TILE_SIZE);
13:41<frosch123>you can via action5
13:41<Samu>i got a single headed articulated train from NARS
13:41<Samu>veh_len is 7
13:41<Samu>unc_len is 3
13:42<frosch123>but there is only one newgrf that wins :)
13:42<frosch123>the catenary is also shared for road and tram
13:42<Samu>unc_len is 4, actually, my bad
13:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by translators :: r27761 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2017-02-27 19:45:37 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: croatian: 3 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: italian: 5 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: english (us): 4 changes by Supercheese
13:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
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13:47<Samu>i'm trying to come up with a way to get a sum_len of parts of the train that do not have running costs attached to them
13:47<Samu>like, some wagons
13:48<supermop__>you guys have an idea for a standard label for dirt roards or highways yet?
13:49<frosch123>"DIRT" would be obvious :p
13:49<frosch123>i recall "HWAY" from somewhere
13:51<Samu>or DRTR
13:58<supermop__>i wonder what andy want's his trolley assist mining trucks to drive on
13:59<supermop__>some kind of electric HAUL?
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14:06<Wolf01>You could leave RD RL parts of, as they are already split, DIRT and HWAY are good
14:07<supermop__>need more letters for ELDIRT and ELHWAY
14:07<Wolf01>ELDT and ELHW
14:11<supermop__>ok i might put together a grf with dirt, cobble streets, asphalt roads, and highways/ all with and without wires
14:12<frosch123>railtypes usually shorten electrified to just "E"
14:12<Wolf01>Then let's keep the same syntax
14:13<Wolf01>More than half of the slots :D
14:14<Wolf01>10 if you count the hardcoded ones
14:14<supermop__>Wolf01: this is just to show people a variety of types
14:14<Wolf01>Then use all of them
14:15<supermop__>cobblestone kind of worthless though
14:16<supermop__>because either cobble or asphalt will be built by towns, not both
14:18<UntouchedWagons>I'm gonna try disabling networking because this is stupid. I've spent 10 hours trying to get this game to compile
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14:19<Wolf01>Ho! Here you are
14:20<UntouchedWagons>and compilation still failed
14:20<andythenorth>so it seems I didn’t break FIRS <-> eints
14:20<Wolf01>Did you try with clean trunk or with a patch?
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14:20<UntouchedWagons>patch pack
14:21<Wolf01>Better try with clean trunk first
14:21<UntouchedWagons>it's failing on the music stuff now
14:22<UntouchedWagons>Okay I'll try that
14:25<UntouchedWagons>it fails to compile if networking is enabled for the same reason
14:26<UntouchedWagons>>error: ‘SetNonBlocking’ declared as an ‘inline’ variable
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14:26<Wolf01>IMHO it collides with windows' libraries
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14:29<Samu>try clean solution
14:29<Wolf01>And andythenorth -> , also I must go now, bye
14:29<Samu>then rebuild all
14:29<UntouchedWagons>I'm using cygwin again at the moment
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14:30<Samu>Build > Clean Solution, then Build > Rebuild All
14:30<UntouchedWagons>all right I'll try visual studio again
14:30<frosch123>andythenorth: <- you need that for firs
14:30<frosch123>eints is inactive for firs currently
14:32<UntouchedWagons>Visual studio still fails to compile with 635 errors
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14:36<UntouchedWagons>I'm gonna try rebooting
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14:38<UntouchedWagons>No, rebooting didn't do anything
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14:46<+glx>UntouchedWagons: VS version and OTTD useful version ?
14:47<UntouchedWagons>visual studio community 2015 update 3, useful 6.0
14:50<andythenorth>frosch123: interestingly, .devzone/translations/langdir exists for me locally
14:50<andythenorth>but not in the repo
14:50<andythenorth>and hg does not see the file
14:51<andythenorth>file is untracked by hg
14:52<andythenorth>translations/ is in .hgignore
14:52<andythenorth>dunno why
14:52<andythenorth>glob syntax will match that in a subpath?
14:53<andythenorth>anyway, fixed and pushed
14:54<Samu>question again: are there multi-headed articulated engines?
14:54<andythenorth>not possible
14:54<Samu>or maybe i'm asking the wrong question
14:54<Samu>there's so many terms
14:55<+glx>UntouchedWagons: same version here and it builds fine
14:55<andythenorth>it’s a valid question
14:55<Samu>what is the difference
14:56<UntouchedWagons>it's like visual studio can't see useful's header files or something dumb like that
14:57<UntouchedWagons>can I see your project properties for openttd?
14:58<+glx>you must tell VS where useful headers and libs are
14:59<Samu>my include directories : D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD essentials\shared\include;$(IncludePath)
14:59<andythenorth>dual_headed = engine at front and rear
14:59<Samu>for configuration debug x64
14:59<Samu>platform x64
14:59<Samu>my library directories: D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD essentials\win64\library;$(LibraryPath)
15:00<+glx>and it's better to set them in a custom property page
15:01<Samu>i made a copy paste of trunk\projects instead
15:01<Samu>i use trunk\projects Cópia
15:01<Samu>and leave the original one untouched
15:01<Samu>can't be arsed to create a custom user thingy thing
15:02<Samu>dont even know how it works
15:02<+glx>seems correct UntouchedWagons
15:04<UntouchedWagons>well it's still not working after trying for 10 hours
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15:07<Samu>try Tools > Import and Export Settings, then Reset all settings
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15:09<UntouchedWagons>still fails to compile
15:10<+glx>what's the first error ?
15:10<UntouchedWagons>Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State
15:10<UntouchedWagons>Error C2061 syntax error: identifier 'ssize_t' (compiling source file ..\src\airport.cpp) openttd c:\users\jordan\documents\projects\openttd-patches\src\3rdparty\cpp-btree\btree.h 889
15:11<UntouchedWagons>dunno where that first line came from
15:11<+michi_cc>Not from trunk.
15:12<+michi_cc>Whatever patch or patch pack that is, it seems somewhat broken.
15:12<UntouchedWagons>It's the jgrpp pack
15:12<UntouchedWagons>I'll try with the openttd 1.6.1 code
15:13<+glx>first try to compile clean trunk without any patch
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15:14<frosch123>andythenorth: is 2048 strings enough for firs?
15:14<UntouchedWagons>okay 1.6.1 code seems to be compiling
15:15<frosch123>raising the DCxx limit from 256 to 2048 seems to be a piece of cake
15:17<andythenorth>frosch123: 640K is probably enough for anyone, tbh
15:19<frosch123>i already had fun reading ttdp source today :)
15:19<andythenorth>apparently gates never said 640k was enough
15:19<andythenorth>but eh, quotes
15:20<andythenorth>DCxx strings used: 233/256
15:20<andythenorth>unless we add random station names and go nuts with them, 2048 should be more than enough
15:21<andythenorth>nuts nuts nuts
15:21<V453000>one doesn't simply go nuts
15:21<V453000>I don't have a highlight on nuts btw
15:21<UntouchedWagons>Okay it's done compiling. Why is openttd.exe not put in the bin folder?
15:21<andythenorth>what do you have highlights on?
15:21<V453000>just my nick
15:21<andythenorth>that I could plausibly use in normal conversation
15:21*andythenorth used to have highlights, but deleted most of them
15:22<frosch123>i used to get highlighted by earth-quak-e, but i fixed the rules
15:23<andythenorth>2048 is plenty
15:23<andythenorth>FIRS is definitely not ‘done’, but I think I can see ‘done’ from here
15:23<andythenorth>it has 6 economies, I plan to have about 9
15:24<andythenorth>then I just spend a year animating all industries, then drop the mic
15:24<andythenorth>there’s no need to change industry spec ever, except to plant fields
15:25<andythenorth>probably be done around v5 or v6
15:25<andythenorth>maybe I should stop at V453000
15:25<UntouchedWagons>oh are you the firs dev andy?
15:25<andythenorth>am I? o_O
15:25<andythenorth>I wasn’t the only one, there used to be more
15:25<UntouchedWagons>I wasn't really paying attention to your conversation tbh
15:25<andythenorth>but somehow my style causes contributors to…find other things to do :P
15:25<@Alberth>he's also makefile dev
15:26<frosch123>and devlolper
15:26<@Alberth>and pony collector
15:27<andythenorth>but not newgrf wiki maintainer
15:27<andythenorth>can’t log in
15:27<andythenorth>even after creating entirely new accounts, using a different browser
15:27<andythenorth>maybe I’m banned :D
15:28<@Alberth>IP address is considered dangerous :)
15:28<frosch123>andythenorth: do not forget to request nick changes for your unused accounts
15:28<andythenorth>the more I look like a sock puppet, the more likely I am to get unbanned? o_O
15:29<frosch123>V453000: some douchebag registered to forums just to request a nickchange (nick change post 3 minutes after registration)
15:30<frosch123>i bet it was thar worly guy
15:30<ST2>who's not affraid of Wiki when the head admins are pompuosly called "Bureaucrat" - imo it's the fear of the term :P
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15:46<Wolf01>So it seem I came back early
15:51<supermop_>WELCOME BACK WOLF
15:51<Wolf01>No need to scream :P
15:51<supermop_>autocad just makes me very enthusiastic in IRC at times
15:53<supermop_>is there any use for stone paved roads in game
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15:54<frosch123>isnt't that just a more modern version of cobblestone?
15:54<supermop_>spent like 2 weeks in history class when i lived in england in middle school on british road paving developments in the early industrial period
15:58<andythenorth>ah the diagrams
15:58<andythenorth>mud road
15:58<andythenorth>roman road, with camber
15:58<andythenorth>telford roads
15:58<andythenorth>if you change school, like I did, you get to do that twice
15:58<andythenorth>also canals, at least twice
15:59<andythenorth>and the romans, twice. under-floor heating such
16:02<supermop_>haha yes
16:03<supermop_>all the variations of composition of rocks in cross section
16:03<supermop_>roads to move armies around scottland
16:04<supermop_>all of the improvements to looms
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16:09<supermop_>so i've drawn all the trolleywire sprites, i've got a perfectly functioning bit of code for defining different road types, and i've got good looking GPL compliant graphics i can lift from ARRS,
16:09<supermop_>but i cant bring myself to make a grf because i cant decide what types of shittier roads i want to define
16:10<@Alberth>throw a die
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16:10<frosch123>supermop_: make them date dependent
16:10<supermop_>supermop_: towns can't really make use of that yet though, right?
16:11*frosch123 is confused
16:12<supermop_>__ln__: looks dangerous
16:12<supermop_>frosch123: towns can only build ROAD so far
16:12<supermop_>so is ROAD stone paved streets, or asphalt roads?
16:13<frosch123>both, depending on town zone?
16:15<supermop_>we don't want any asphalt in the 1600s or so
16:15<frosch123>noone plays in 1600
16:15<supermop_>but it would also be odd to have stone outside of city center in 2000
16:15<supermop_>and i want to avoid the save and reload to switch thing
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16:16<frosch123>it can convert on the fly
16:16<frosch123>unless you mind the instant switch
16:17<supermop_>it can?
16:17<frosch123>yes, 1969-12-31 cobble stone -> 1970-01-01 asphalt, no problem
16:17<frosch123>may look weird though :)
16:18<supermop_>then on january 1 at 00:00 all stones turn to asphalt?
16:18<frosch123>it may also glitch a little bit since ottd does not redraw everything immediately
16:19<Samu>a multi-headed vehicle is actually 2 vehicles, right?
16:19<frosch123>so it will convert while scrolling :)
16:19<frosch123>or when stuff moves on it
16:19<supermop_>road doesn't know when it was built, right?
16:20<supermop_>what if i just make ROAD asphalt from 0 CE, and hope that NRT in the future allows towns to build other types than only ROAD
16:21<Wolf01><frosch123> unless you mind the instant switch <- imho we need to introduce some automatic roadworks
16:21<frosch123>i rate that one of the least likely things
16:21<frosch123>there is just no good criterion for towns to decide which type to build
16:24<supermop_>add a value of desirability, town build road with highest value thats available?
16:24<Wolf01>And something like the factory fields?
16:27<Samu>how many heads can a vehicle actually have?
16:27<supermop_>or just town build the latest defined available roadtype that is flagged as buildable by toown
16:28<Samu>"multiheaded" term is a bit ambiguous
16:30<Wolf01>I would make town pick randomly for available flagged roadtypes, and make them available only at certain dates, so you can even have 2 towns with a different roadtype
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16:34<Wolf01> something like this
16:35<andythenorth>underwater tunnels eh? o_O
16:36<Wolf01>With the sealevel patch it should be possible
16:36<andythenorth>there was chunnel patch also
16:36<andythenorth>bedtime also
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16:39<frosch123>Wolf01: there is also another option for tunnels
16:39<frosch123>there are two ways to build bridges: with ramp or flat
16:39<frosch123>but there is only one way to build tunnels (essentially flat only)
16:40<frosch123>we could add a tunnelentry with a downhill stope into the tunnel
16:40<frosch123>which may not require a real height level below it
16:41<frosch123>anyway, night
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16:54<UntouchedWagons>I need a company name
17:05<Wolf01>Transporter McTransportface
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17:29<supermop_>Wolf01: those seem interesting
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17:44<supermop_>is powered list the types that can drive on this road, or the roads that vehicles of this type can drive on?
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17:45<Wolf01>Lol, I'll never understand that well
17:46<Wolf01>I think is the latter
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17:50<Wolf01> lol
17:52<Samu>how do I compute the lenght of an articulated vehicle?
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17:52<supermop_>HMM dirt rail?
17:53<Samu>the game doesn't do it correctly, or I'm missing something
17:53<Wolf01>Isn't it just the classic tramway on grass?
17:54<Samu>there is this: static uint GetLengthOfArticulatedVehicle(const Train *v)
17:54<Samu>but it's only for the GUI
17:54<Samu>not exactly what I need
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>i get the image of some hastily placed rails in swamp areas which can only be passed at walk speed
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>because they're not exactly what you would call... straight
17:55<Wolf01>Pointless, there are no swamps on OTTD
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>random first search result
17:57<Wolf01> the first one
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that was probably the one i had in my head at first
18:01<Samu>6 + 5 = 11
18:01<Samu>If I don't get 11 now, I cry
18:01<Wolf01>@calc 6+5
18:01<@DorpsGek>Wolf01: 11
18:01<Wolf01>Seem like that
18:02<Samu>wow, it was easier than I thought
18:03<Samu> do { len += v->gcache.cached_veh_length; v = v->HasArticulatedPart() ? v->GetNextArticulatedPart() : NULL; } while (v != NULL);
18:03<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: what should i call that
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>"torf" is apparently called "peat" in english
18:04<Samu>v was nullptr --- what is this?
18:05<supermop_>i drew creosote soaked wood poles for cheap crappy wire
18:05<Wolf01>That you need to do "do while() {}" and not "do {} while()"
18:08<Samu>ah it was something else, I can't use v
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18:08<Samu>v must not be modified
18:08<Samu>but i need a copy of v when do while is running
18:11<Samu>it's actually a do { do {} while() } while()
18:11<Samu>articulated parts are getting in the way
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18:14<Samu>the first do while is for the vehicle, but a vehicle in itself can be articulated, so i need another do while to account for it
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18:18<Samu>a multi-headed vehicle apparently is 2 vehicles in this situation
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18:39<Samu>I got a train of lenght 48, in which 42 doesn't have a running cost assigned
18:39<Samu>6 * 8 = 48
18:39<Samu>1 engine + 5 wagons
18:39<Samu>only the engine have the running cost
18:41<Samu>what should be the running cost of the 5 wagons
18:41<Samu>hmm must think
18:42<Samu>only 8/48 of the train got running cost, the other 42/48 must be based on the running cost of 8/48
18:43<Samu>hmmm help me formulate a formula
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18:54<Samu>i found my very old post
18:55<Samu>2013, it was 4 years ago
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19:39<Samu>I did it, partylu
19:40<Samu>return cost += cost * unc_len / (VEHICLE_LENGTH * 2 * _settings_game.vehicle.max_train_length);
19:42<Samu>unc_len is uncounted_length
19:42<Samu>the length of the parts of a train that do not have a running cost associated
19:42<Samu>like wagons
19:47<Samu>the cost is modified based on the currently calculated running cost of the parts that have it
19:48<Samu>if the train got 3 engines, Ginzu A4s for instance
19:49<Samu>meh, my english
19:49<Samu>whatever, it's working as I intended
20:07<Samu>it works!
20:07<Samu>compare the running costs between 1.6.1 and my testing
20:09<ST2>try it with 2cc newgrf's
20:10<Samu>hmm which servers do btpro host those? I'll just download missing newgrfs
20:11<ST2>but can find them here:
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20:24<Samu>i dont understand 2cc
20:25<ST2>I only spoke of 2cc, because your changes... to be even considered, must work with all newgrf's
20:25<ST2>already done or to be made
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20:28<ST2>but if want to make some tests with Road Hog, Iron Horse and FISH 2 - all under FIRS, server #97 is up
20:29<ST2>FIRS 2*
20:30<Samu>hmm what i really wanted to test was a mixture of base cost changes for trains, engines or wagons, with or without running costs in them
20:30<Samu>ok let me check firs
20:32<ST2>to the told server, all can be downloaded via Check missing content
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 28 00:00:04 2017