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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-18

---Logopened Sat Mar 18 00:00:29 2017
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03:57<@Alberth>right, let's see about this mk-archive thing :)
04:35<andythenorth>Alberth: I’m afk for a couple of hours
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05:24<Eddi|zuHause>i still have no clue what actually broke... i can do "kwin_x11 --replace" and i can move windows again, but it immediately breaks again when i press alt+tab
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06:00<@Alberth>no log somewhere?
06:01<@Alberth>you could check running processes and compare them
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06:12<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't know which log
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>i suspect some translation layer in some bus broke
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>and also a restart of KDE will probably fix it
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07:25<@Alberth>mk-archive seems fixed, can I push in IH ?
07:27<andythenorth>please :)
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07:30<Samu>continuing yesterday
07:30<Samu>1400 distance - £7,6M
07:31<Samu>1200 distance - £7,6M
07:31<Samu>1000 distance - £7,4M
07:31<Samu>optimal distance for dinger 1000 carrying passengers is 1200-1600
07:32<Samu>that is 1000 tiles going y-axis
07:32<@Alberth>my map is never that big :p
07:33<Samu>erm, 1200-1600 tiles going y-axis*
07:35<Samu>perhaps if plane speed factor is 1/1, a distance higher than 4000 may be required to achieve highest profit
07:36<Samu>8k maps coming some day?
07:37<andythenorth>never say never
07:37<andythenorth>why it would be worth doing, who knows
07:38<andythenorth>wow, we go t0 4096^2
07:38<andythenorth>still generating
07:38<andythenorth>so slow
07:39<andythenorth>20k industries, really?
07:40<andythenorth>that’s the most pointless map I’ve ever seen :D
07:48<@Alberth>it's always great with RL islands, they make a large map, where 50% is just water tiles
07:49<andythenorth>Alberth: I may be doing it wrong, but I can’t get bin/mk-archive to accept docs dir
07:49<andythenorth>I have r1558
07:52<@Alberth> the --verbose is just for dumping the file list
07:52<@Alberth>ie replaced $(DOC_FILES) by docs
07:54<@Alberth>it should catch typos in paths by giving an INFO line
07:55<@Alberth>maybe you don't want the --flatten flag?
07:55<@Alberth>it drops the directory tree of the source
08:25*andythenorth tests
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08:58<@peter1138>256x256 is a good size.
08:59<andythenorth>Alberth mk-archive ERROR: option --verbose not recognized
08:59<andythenorth>is everything comitted? o_O Or is my hg broken? o_O
09:00<@Alberth>sure you checked out 1558?
09:00<andythenorth>ok note to self
09:00<andythenorth>sometimes hg pull -u can fail
09:01<andythenorth>if it fails, subsequent hg pull -u won’t actually update
09:01<andythenorth>hg lessons
09:01<@Alberth>how silly
09:02<andythenorth>I think it makes sense, there was nothing to pull, so no rev to update to
09:02<andythenorth>meanwhile my local hg is one rev behind where I expected it to be
09:02<@Alberth>it may have warned you about, imho
09:03<andythenorth>it might have tried to, but it got stuck in the pull so I killed it
09:03<andythenorth>no VCS is perfect eh
09:03<andythenorth>ha, Makefile should be a dep for Makefile
09:03<@Alberth>except for the one you write yourself :p
09:04<andythenorth>ok that works
09:04<andythenorth>do I have to copy license.txt into the root of the tar, for GPL?
09:04<andythenorth>I suspect that GPL does not enforce a file system layout
09:04<@Alberth>maybe bananas has requirements in that direction?
09:05<andythenorth>it might
09:06<andythenorth>hmm this idea of docs-in-the-tar is flawed?
09:06<andythenorth>bananas player will never see them, the tar is never uncompressed?
09:06<andythenorth>except by openttd on the fly?
09:07<andythenorth>:P most of the complexity in rewriting the makefile is figuring out what to distribute :P
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09:19<andythenorth>I suppose the docs could be an easter egg :P
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09:28<@Alberth>tell frosch you're prepared, next time :p
09:29*andythenorth would value 2nd, 3rd, or 4th opinions on contents of tar :P
09:29<andythenorth>I guess readme.txt and license.txt are needed for in-game display
09:29<andythenorth>also changelog.txt
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10:18<Eddi|zuHause>put grf, license and readme into a subdirectory within the tar
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know about changelog, shouldn't that maybe be part of the readme?
10:20<andythenorth>OpenTTD wouldn’t know how to split the file to read that
10:20<andythenorth>I suppose it could be patched
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10:31<@Alberth>afaik I coded tar creation to construct a unique directory prefix in the tar
10:32<@Alberth>ie --base option or so
10:33<andythenorth>that gives the name when tar is expanded?
10:35*andythenorth thinks it does, based on testing it
10:35<andythenorth>maybe the structure of docs dir is flawed?
10:36<andythenorth>dunno, something is wrong here
10:37<andythenorth>there is no correct place for docs
10:37<andythenorth>it’s a half-assed design
10:42<@Alberth>unpacking the tar makes that directory at the root indeed
10:42<@Alberth>more importantly, the directory is part of the name stored in openttd
10:42<andythenorth>ah maybe copying the contents of docs into the tar would work
10:42<@Alberth>where duplicate names are silently discarded, so you get an arbitrary version of a grf
10:43<@Alberth>ie almost all grfs from the devzone :p
10:43<andythenorth>ach, readme.html would be better than index.html, for players
10:43<andythenorth>but that’s not how webservers work
10:44<@Alberth>devzone doesn't distribute a tar.gz file or so?
10:44<andythenorth>it’s not clear what my problem is, right? o_O
10:45<andythenorth>Alberth: I don’t know what devzone distributes, other than what is actually there :)
10:45<andythenorth>all of this was decided and constructed by other people :)
10:45<andythenorth>I don’t know the spec or rationale :)
10:46<andythenorth>there might be stuff consumed downstream that I don’t understand, like inclusion in distributions
10:46<@Alberth>alright, firs has the same set
10:46<andythenorth>I also don’t know if e.g. windows can open tars etc
10:46<andythenorth>such lack of knowledge :)
10:46<@Alberth>doesn't need to
10:47<@Alberth>oh, for reading the html? most archivers can
10:47<@Alberth>it's a very trivial format :p
10:47<andythenorth>I wonder why the zip is built by devzone
10:47<@Alberth>windows users typically have zip
10:47<andythenorth>openttd would seem to want the tar, more usefully
10:48<@Alberth>it's inside :p
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>people who have winrar or 7zip can also open tars
10:49<@Alberth>I just expected to have a .gz or .xz for the binary distribution as well, but that doesn't seem to happen
10:50*andythenorth reading .devzone in the IH repo
10:50<@Alberth>why isn't the zip and the tar labeled with a version number?
10:51<@Alberth>"" and "iron-horse.tar" isn't unique enough
10:52<andythenorth>hmm, used to be
10:52<andythenorth>but no version number
10:52<@Alberth>I killed the .tar intermediate extension
10:52<andythenorth>seems fair
10:52<@Alberth>to avoid people thinking they have to unpack the tar file
10:52<andythenorth>my OS expands it complely after download
10:52<andythenorth>completely *
10:52<@Alberth>yeah, silly OS
10:53<@Alberth>don't bother what the user wants :p
10:53<andythenorth>dunno how Jenkins is configured, or where even :)
10:53<andythenorth>not sure how much of filenames etc depends on Makefile, and how much on Jenkins job
10:53<@Alberth>I had a link about that, should I dig it up?
10:54<andythenorth>it might be in the web UI
10:54<@Alberth>jenkins just calls the makefile to build things
10:55<andythenorth>Jenkins won’t let me in, so I can’t check :)
10:55<andythenorth>both Jenkins and newgrf wiki don’t recognise my auth creds :P
10:57<@Alberth> fair enough :p
10:57<andythenorth>ok so it does just call make
10:57<@Alberth>that's what it executes
11:00<@Alberth>would it be likely that AV8 overrides the aircraft type string?
11:00<andythenorth>¿¿ TAR_FILE = $(PROJECT_NAME).tar -> TAR_FILE = $(PROJECT_VERSIONED_NAME).tar
11:01<andythenorth>AV8 appears to show type string as expected
11:03<andythenorth>mine doesn’t show that
11:03<andythenorth>I don’t have a type string or range in that window
11:03<@Alberth>it's modified with samus patch for aircraft type display
11:05<andythenorth>I’m not aware of a newgrf cb for modifying those strings
11:05<andythenorth>it’s a prop with built-in constants in nml
11:05<@Alberth>so maybe I messed up :p
11:07<andythenorth>wrong string range?
11:09<@Alberth>but yeah change TAR_FILE, and ZIP_FILE too, I guess
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11:10<Samu>weird Alberth :p
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11:11<Samu>my patch is doing that?
11:11<@Alberth>nah, just me making a mess
11:12<frosch123> <- sometimes it's hard to distinguish newbie mails from scam
11:12<@Alberth>it helps if SetDParam and string match :p
11:13<@Alberth>lol "Sent from Mail for Windows 10"
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>i hate these "sent from <X> using <Y> "signatures"
11:13<@Alberth>it's soo silly :p
11:14<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: why, it's a good filter criterion
11:14<frosch123>like "feature request" on fs and forums
11:23<andythenorth>we just had a nice run of forum requests
11:25<@Alberth>including an iron pony train set :p
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11:31<andythenorth>all of it
11:32*andythenorth automates V453000
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11:37<Samu>is it possible to make towns not grow unless serviced? wondering if there's a way to do this
11:38<@Alberth>play in the tropical climate
11:39<Samu>oh, right
11:39<Samu>that would still require all towns being placed in desert
11:40<Samu>maybe a minimum requirement for them to grow, like passengers
11:41<Samu>1 passenger would be enough to turn it from not growing to growing
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12:04<@Alberth>frosch123: 2nd attempt :)
12:07*andythenorth is so bored of refactoring :P
12:10<@Alberth>paint pixels :p
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12:13<frosch123>the linebreaks in the preview window are arbitrary to make it somehow have two columns, right?
12:14<frosch123>looks nice :)
12:24<@Alberth>not having a linebreak before the type caused a linewrap for me
12:25<@Alberth>on the aircraft type, even
12:25<@Alberth>ok, thanks for the review
12:42<frosch123> <- more elaborate fix for fs#6545
12:42<frosch123>no idea how many crashes that has caused on various platforms :)
12:46<andythenorth>there’s no way to disable plane crashes, right?
12:46<andythenorth>other than modify AV9 to make all aircraft small?
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>there's a cheat
12:46<frosch123>there is the cheat
12:47<andythenorth>enabled that
12:47<andythenorth>7 year old yacking in my ear
12:47<andythenorth>refactoring is harder when being offered a running critique of OpenTTD from 1m to my right
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: how is that elaborate? it's just s/width/pitch/ :p
12:50<andythenorth>now he wants to build canals on slopes
12:50<andythenorth>(auto-lock when dragging canal)
12:51<Samu>i wanted that
12:54<frosch123>go outside and show him how bridges are often built two years before the road is built to/over them
12:54<andythenorth>planes are crashing still :P
12:54<frosch123>andythenorth: there is also a setting for plane crashes
12:54<@Alberth>fix looks good
12:54<frosch123>iirc its regular setting for regular crashes, and cheat for large/small related crashes
12:55<andythenorth>thanks :)
12:55<andythenorth>found it
12:55<andythenorth>he’s landing A380s on the commuter airport
12:56<@Alberth>aircraft is bigger than the airport :p
13:02*andythenorth such refactoring wow
13:03<andythenorth>I should stop and put the ‘install’ targets back in the makefiles :)
13:04<andythenorth>that would make testing much easier :P
13:04<andythenorth>don’t refactor the makefile when refactoring the app :D
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>technically, it's not refactoring if you change the functionality
13:06<andythenorth>I think we’d have to file this under 'breaking'
13:06<andythenorth>don’t break the build when trying to refactor
13:07<andythenorth>on the plus side, the refactoring is more done than not
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>i'm going to "break" my system now.
13:08<andythenorth>I think I’m going to write a magic_trees macro
13:08<andythenorth>the declarations here are hideous
13:09<andythenorth>it’s ~all just to put trees onto slope-aware tiles
13:09<andythenorth>it’s repeated in 4 or 5 other industries
13:09<andythenorth>and it’s not even accurate, some tiles have the trees outside the tile border :P
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>have you copied that code from dailywtf?
13:10<frosch123>andythenorth: i suggest usage of lists and dicts
13:10<andythenorth>frosch123: you slay me :P
13:10<frosch123>instead of doing "number12 = 12"
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>.. or a code generator :p
13:10<andythenorth>that code was originally from a CPP macro that I didn’t write
13:10<andythenorth>then it was magically ported to nml
13:10<andythenorth>then I wrote a processor to reformat it to python
13:11<andythenorth>and now we are where we are :P
13:11<@Alberth>slowly moving in the right direction :p
13:12<andythenorth>magic_trees = sprite_number
13:12<andythenorth>and then a macro
13:12<andythenorth>or even…magic_tress = [sprite_numbers]
13:12<andythenorth>randomised trees at compile time :P
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>i think in one of those steps you missed the point where you take a step back and completely rewrite
13:12<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I was saving that up
13:13<andythenorth>if I do this write, I can probably animate the bloody things growing
13:13<andythenorth>right / write /s
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>i think you have to do this without me... install gonna take half an hour... or a day... or a month... maybe...
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13:15<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27796 /trunk/src/blitter (3 files) (2017-03-18 18:14:53 +0100 )
13:15<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6545]: 32bpp-anim blitters assumed that pitch and width of the screen were equal.
13:15<supermop_home>andy trees?
13:18<andythenorth>“and that was the last we saw of Eddi|zuHause”
13:27<supermop_home>lively graphics releases forum today
13:44<supermop_home>what should I make today, andy?
13:46<andythenorth>supermop: QLD cane trams
13:46<andythenorth>the ones that operate on proceed-on-sight, rather than with signals
13:46<andythenorth>i.e. tramlike
13:47<supermop_home>sounds like heqs thing?
13:47<supermop_home>though maybe doesn't deserve the 'h'
13:51<supermop_home>best implemented as a tiny shunter for RH or heqs?
13:51<andythenorth>eh you could do log roads
13:52<supermop_home>do you need a tiny diesel drawn for hog/heqs?
13:52<andythenorth>not right now :)
13:53<andythenorth>there are a stack of cargo icons needed
13:54<andythenorth>traditionally they are guest-drawn :P
14:01<andythenorth>in sub-tropic, orchard has palm trees :P
14:01<supermop_home>date palms?
14:01<andythenorth>too much diligence with climate awareness
14:01<andythenorth>date orchard?
14:01<supermop_home>would rather eat mangoes
14:01<andythenorth>oh they’re not just apples :o
14:01<supermop_home>or guava
14:02<supermop_home>mangoe tree looks more or less like a real tree
14:02<supermop_home>same with durian
14:02<supermop_home>guava looks kind of palm y
14:03<andythenorth>also has full snowline support
14:03<andythenorth>despite it can’t be built above snowline :P
14:03<supermop_home>what if I build it in june?
14:06<supermop_home>for very early game starts:
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14:10<@peter1138>ok, how do i get a vehicles next station order?
14:16<@peter1138>GetNextStoppingStation() looks promising.
14:18<@peter1138>And it's a StationIDStack, whatever that is.
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14:22<supermop_home>hmm maybe a drover as road vehicle
14:23<frosch123>peter1138: in case of conditiional orders it returns all possible next destinations in a container
14:24<@peter1138>Hmm :S
14:25<frosch123>if you are considering the service-helicopter-at-heliport-while-autoreplacing...
14:25<frosch123>it may make sens to just not service the helicopter if there is a pending autoreplace
14:25<frosch123>iirc aircraft take detours already, if they need servicing while in flight
14:25<frosch123>unless there are explicit depot orders
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15:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, i just barely missed the 30 minutes mark :p
15:16<frosch123>oi, it's an eddi
15:16<frosch123>it must have been 2017 when you were here last :o
15:18<LordAro>positively eons
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15:22<Wolf01>Hello people, I survived!
15:22<LordAro>Wolf01: i don't believe you
15:23<Wolf01>Wedding party... I think I've eat for 3 days
15:28<Wolf01>V, is F?
15:44<andythenorth>all roads lead to magic macros
15:44<V453000>is F
15:44<V453000>not 0.15 tho
15:47<Wolf01>Oooooook, steam just finished to download the update (25 minutes), now I might be able to play something
15:48<Wolf01>*something which needs a hotfix update :|
15:59<__ln__>Wolf01: *eat -> eaten
16:00<__ln__>Wolf01: *finished to download -> finished downloading?
16:09<Wolf01>Nah, he's right :P
16:10<Wolf01>He went missing for a while and I forgot how to speak proper english :P
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16:24<andythenorth>(nearby_tile_height(0,0) - snowline_height) + 1
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16:24<andythenorth>tells what? It has results 0-128 being checked
16:24<andythenorth>intervals at 8, 16, 24
16:24<andythenorth>presumably % snow cover?
16:25<frosch123>likely, but looks wrong :p
16:25<andythenorth>this industry can’t build above snowline, so eh
16:25<andythenorth>errors it would never show up
16:26<frosch123>andythenorth: it's broken for 5 years :)
16:26<frosch123>8, 16, 24 was correct in grf version 7, wrong in grf version 8
16:39*andythenorth deletes more than 100 spritelayouts
16:39<andythenorth>for a single industry :P
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16:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27797 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2017-03-18 21:43:43 +0100 )
16:43<@DorpsGek>-Add: Display aircraft type in its vehicle window (patch by Samu)
16:44<@planetmaker>hoi :)
16:44<andythenorth>that was one of those tiny irritations :)
16:44<andythenorth>Samu: you get patches commited ;)
16:44<andythenorth>committed *
16:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27798 /trunk/src/lang (56 files in 2 dirs) (2017-03-18 21:45:18 +0100 )
16:45<@DorpsGek>-Change: Also remove obsolete string from the other languages
16:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27799 /trunk/src (build_vehicle_gui.cpp lang/english.txt) (2017-03-18 21:46:15 +0100 )
16:46<@DorpsGek>-Add: Display aircraft type in buy window (patch by Samu)
16:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27800 /trunk/src (engine_gui.cpp lang/english.txt) (2017-03-18 21:47:48 +0100 )
16:47<@DorpsGek>-Change: Rename long aircraft string names of the preview window
16:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27801 /trunk/src/lang (59 files in 2 dirs) (2017-03-18 21:48:27 +0100 )
16:48<@DorpsGek>-Change: Also rename long aircraft preview window strings of other languages
16:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27802 /trunk/src (engine_gui.cpp lang/english.txt) (2017-03-18 21:48:54 +0100 )
16:49<@DorpsGek>-Add: Display aircraft type in engine preview window (patch by Samu)
16:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27803 /trunk/src/lang (59 files in 2 dirs) (2017-03-18 21:49:24 +0100 )
16:49<@DorpsGek>-Change: Remove obsolete aircraft preview strings from other languages
16:50*andythenorth should really fix ‘make install'
16:50<@Alberth>I broke that?
16:50<andythenorth>we deleted it :)
16:50<@Alberth>hola planetmaker
16:51<andythenorth>it’s another of the sophisticated bits of the old makefile
16:51<@Alberth>hmm, that counts as broken :)
16:51<andythenorth>it can probably be lifted and copied
16:51<andythenorth>it has to handle multiple platforms
16:51<andythenorth>makefile grows though eh? o_O
16:51<andythenorth>move it to bin perhaps?
16:52<@Alberth>oh dear, we need cmake makefile genertators for that don't we?
16:52<frosch123>"make install" sounds like something only andy would use :p
16:52<@Alberth>haha :)
16:52<andythenorth>is ‘make install’ not standard? :o
16:52<andythenorth>nml has it also
16:53<frosch123>newgrf are distributed via bananas, not via linux distributions
16:53<andythenorth>well yes :)
16:53<andythenorth>but for developing newgrfs…
16:54<@Alberth>it looks very complicated for a single cp command :p
16:54<frosch123>i have a symlink from .openttd/newgrf to whereever the checkouts are
16:54<andythenorth>the first newgrf tool I wrote was a shell script with cp in it
16:54<frosch123>no need to every copy anything
16:55<@Alberth>unless you have lots of different platforms, I'd suggest just add a 'cp newgrf' target
16:55<@Alberth>you're likely the only user anyway
16:56<andythenorth>seems a bit weird to only ship OS X support in the makefile?
16:57<andythenorth>eh, if I’m the only user, maybe not
16:57<andythenorth>but people seem to fork FIRS
16:57<@Alberth>why? alll developers of the grf use osx :p
16:58<@Alberth>maybe they don't use "make install"
16:59<@Alberth>otherwise, they can fix the makefile :)
17:00<andythenorth>in an earlier edition, the path was just set per-developer in Makefile.local
17:00<andythenorth>I am +1 to simple, it just seemed that a lot of work had been put into the install target
17:01<@Alberth>well, feel free to add it again :)
17:02<andythenorth>might just be a paste
17:04<andythenorth>one of the more satisfying FIRS diffs :P
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17:18<@peter1138>Alberth, pikka probably has some special plane that is 'broken' by that set of patches ;)
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17:20<@Alberth>he is also showing aircraft type using the grf, so it's a bit double now :)
17:21<@Alberth>great andy, a few more such patches, and all is solved :)
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17:21*andythenorth carries on deleting things
17:25<Supercheese>The Saint-Exupéry philosophy, eh?
17:28<andythenorth>such deletions
17:28<Supercheese>much perfection
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17:36<@peter1138>Hmm, why am I not allowed to build rail down to the coastline, but I can build road.
17:36<@peter1138>And I can just clear the tile first and build the rail anyway.
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>legacy TTO behaviour?
17:38<andythenorth>why doesn’t FIRS bulk terminal build unless I bulldoze the coast first? o_O
17:39<andythenorth>but not always
17:40<@peter1138>Yeah, seems to be original behaviour. Hmm.
17:46<__ln__>when will we get underwater tunnels?
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the shore tile is technically a sea tile, so if the layout checks for land, it might fail
17:49<andythenorth>I think there’s a bug in the tile check
17:49<andythenorth>I found something that didn’t look right last week
17:51<andythenorth>FIRS spritelayouts are super-bloated :)
17:52<andythenorth>every time I delete ~100 of them, the compile gets 6 seconds faster
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>as long as it's linear, why bother? :p
18:04*andythenorth bed
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19:14<@peter1138>Damn, cities make so many passengers...
19:14<@peter1138>1250 passengers waiting in 1921 ;(
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19:35<dlite>any quick suggestions on train / vehicle sets I should get if I want to try FIRS economics?
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19:35<dlite>FIRS 2.0 more specifically?
19:36<ST2>check the ones used here:
19:36<ST2>they work
19:36<ST2>if you like planes, try AV8 or something ^^
19:36<ST2>I'm not a planes person :)
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19:40<dlite>ST2: thanks, let me have a look
19:41<ST2>yw :)
19:41<ST2>well, those are actually runing on a server so, they work xD
19:42<ST2>ofc, newgrf's we use are always kinda minimalistic - only what's needed :)
19:51<dlite>I'm trying to read the tt-forums threads for these sets, for example the Iron Horse thread. How do I know that this set actually works and covers all the needs for FIRS2.0 cargo requirements? I mean it says: "Compatible with all known cargos", but does that really mean what it says?
19:51<dlite>(I've never played with FIRS ever"
19:51<supermop_home>Well I guess you have to trust Andythenorth not to lie to you
19:51<ST2>well, you can try them live - server of the link above
19:52<ST2>and as supermop said ^^
19:52<supermop_home>but most newer sets will work together
19:52<supermop_home>also as andy is the creator of both Firs and Iron Horse, it is safe to assume they work together
19:53<ST2>and road hog works good to :)
19:54<ST2>well, prepare yourself to waste more time choosing vehicles xD
19:54<supermop_home>while there are times I prefer other grfs, I generally find you can always have a pretty satisfying game with all Andy Newgrfs - they are also balanced to each other
19:55<ST2>[23:51:37] <dlite> (I've never played with FIRS ever" <<-- this says that you will notice a higher learning stage :D
19:56<ST2>when you decide to have YETI dudes around... prepare to scavange newgrf's for it - but the ones used with FIRS 2 usually work too :)
20:00<dlite>uh oh
20:01<ST2>guess it worked out :D
20:02<dlite>you are very helpful, but I'm just left wondering that how some poor fellow who doesn't know how to connect to IRC will find out...
20:03<ST2>trial / error works well most of the times xD
20:16<dlite>if I take the same sets listed on that server, any advice for a start date to run an enjoyable sandbox?
20:16<ST2>all depends on what you want - because FIRS have different industries among years
20:17<dlite>meaning balancing jumps back and forth if I start from 1800's?
20:18<ST2>never tried so early game date
20:19<ST2>the earlier date we ever used was this one:
20:19<ST2>and was for a specific targed, no FIRS
20:58<supermop_home>I wonder if a catenary pylon sprite can be positioned in the center of a tile
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 19 00:00:31 2017